June 17, 2014, San Diego, CA

Technical Committee on

Private Water Supply Piping Systems

M E M O R A N D U M

DATE: May 21, 2014

TO: Principal and Alternate Members of the Technical Committee on Private Water

Supply Piping Systems

FROM: Matt Klaus, Principal Fire Protection Engineer/NFPA Staff Liaison

SUBJECT: AUT-PRI AGENDA PACKAGE – A2015 Second Draft Meeting

________________________________________________________________________

Enclosed is the agenda for the Second Draft meeting for NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation

of Sprinkler Systems, NFPA 24, Standard for the Installation of Private Fire Service Mains and

Their Appurtenances, and NFPA 291 Recommended Practice for Fire Flow Testing and Marking

of Hydrants. NFPA 13, 24 and 291 have entered the Annual 2015 revision cycle and will produce

2016 Editions. It is imperative that you review the attached public comments in advance, with your

ideas and substantiations for your views. If you have alternate suggestions for text changes, please

come prepared with the words and respective substantiation.

For administrative questions, please feel free to contact Elena Carroll at (617) 984-7952.

For technical questions, please feel free to contact Matt Klaus at (617) 984-7448. You can

also reach either of us via e-mail at [email protected] or [email protected]. We look forward to

meeting everyone in Del Mar, CA at the San Diego Marriott Del Mar

mailto:[email protected]

mailto:[email protected]

Table of Contents

Part 1 - Meeting Agenda

Part 2 - Committee Address List

Part 3 – New Process Worksheets

Part 4 – A2012 ROC Meeting Minutes

Part 5 - A2015 Key Dates

Part 6- PRI Public Comments

PART 1 –

MEETING AGENDA

Technical Committee on

Private Water Supply Piping Systems

Second Draft Meeting

June 17, 2014 San Diego Marriott Del Mar

11966 El Camino Real

San Diego, CA 92130

AGENDA

Tuesday, June 17, 2014

1. Call to Order – 8:00 AM

2. Introductions of Members and Staff

3. Review and Approval of A2015 First Draft Meeting Minutes

4. Review of A2015 Revision Cycle and Meeting Schedule

5. Review of Distributed Material and Workload

b. Overview of Public Input

c. Overview of Potential Committee First Revisions

6. Task Group Reports

a. Metric Task Group

b. Trench Task Group (Fuller)

c. Flushing Task Group (Wagoner)

d. Water Supply Task Group (Caputo)

e. NFPA 24 Rewrite Task Group Report (Biggins)

7. Review Public Comments

8. Adjourn (TBD)

PART 2 –

COMMITTEE ADDRESS LIST

Address List No PhonePrivate Water Supply Piping Systems AUT-PRI

Automatic Sprinkler Systems

Matthew J. Klaus05/19/2014

AUT-PRI

Kenneth W. Wagoner

ChairParsley Consulting Engineers350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206Escondido, CA 92025-5053

SE 8/5/2009AUT-PRI

Roland A. Asp

PrincipalNational Fire Sprinkler Association, Inc.40 Jon Barrett RoadPatterson, NY 12563-2164National Fire Sprinkler AssociationDesignAlternate: Jon R. Ackley

M 07/29/2013

AUT-PRI

James B. Biggins

PrincipalGlobal Risk Consultants Corporation15732 West Barr RoadManhattan, IL 60442-9012Alternate: William J. Gotto

SE 1/1/1996AUT-PRI

Phillip A. Brown

PrincipalAmerican Fire Sprinkler Association, Inc.12750 Merit Drive, Suite 350Dallas, TX 75251Alternate: Jeffrey J. Rovegno

IM 10/6/2000

AUT-PRI

James A. Charrette

PrincipalAllan Automatic Sprinkler Corp. of So. California3233 Enterprise StreetBrea, CA 92821National Fire Sprinkler AssociationInstaller/MaintainerAlternate: Ronald N. Webb

IM 7/26/2007AUT-PRI

Flora F. Chen

PrincipalHayward Fire Department, California777 B StreetHayward, CA 94541

E 10/20/2010

AUT-PRI

Stephen A. Clark, Jr.

PrincipalAllianz Risk Consulting, LLC1003 Reece DriveHoschton, GA 30548Alternate: Andrew C. Higgins

I 1/14/2005AUT-PRI

Jeffry T. Dudley

PrincipalNational Aeronautics & Space Administration503 Glenbrook CircleRockledge, FL 32955

U 10/20/2010

AUT-PRI

Byron E. Ellis

PrincipalEntergy Corporation5564 Essen Lane, Mail Code L-ESSN-2MBaton Rouge, LA 70809Edison Electric Institute

U 7/23/2008AUT-PRI

Brandon W. Frakes

PrincipalXL Global Asset Protection Services196 Shady Grove LaneAdvance, NC 27006Alternate: Mark A. Bowman

I 1/15/2004

AUT-PRI

David B. Fuller

PrincipalFM Global1151 Boston Providence TurnpikePO Box 9102Norwood, MA 02062-9102Alternate: Angele Morcos

I 7/26/2007AUT-PRI

Robert M. Gagnon

PrincipalGagnon Engineering2660 Daisy RoadWoodbine, MD 21797

SE 4/1/1994

1




AUT-PRI

Tanya M. Glumac

PrincipalLiberty Mutual Property20 Riverside RoadWeston, MA 02493-2231Alternate: Luke Hilton

I 1/10/2008AUT-PRI

LaMar Hayward

Principal3-D Fire Protection, Inc.PO Box 50845Idaho Falls, ID 83405

IM 8/2/2010

AUT-PRI

Alan R. Laguna

PrincipalMerit Sprinkler Company, Inc.930 Kenner AvenuePO Box 1447Kenner, LA 70062-1447

IM 10/3/2002AUT-PRI

John Lake

PrincipalCity of Gainesville306 NE 6th Avenue, Building BPO Box 490, Station 9Gainesville, FL 32602-0490

E 1/31/2001

AUT-PRI

Michael Larsen

PrincipalAmway Inc.7575 FultonAda, MI 49355

U 03/07/2013AUT-PRI

George E. Laverick

PrincipalUL LLC333 Pfingsten RoadNorthbrook, IL 60062-2096Alternate: Michael G. McCormick

RT 4/15/2004

AUT-PRI

James M. Maddry

PrincipalJames M. Maddry, P.E.3680 Foxfire PlaceMartinez, GA 30907

SE 1/1/1991AUT-PRI

Kevin D. Maughan

PrincipalTyco Fire Protection Products1467 Elmwood AvenueCranston, RI 02910Alternate: Cliff Hartford

M 1/14/2005

AUT-PRI

Bob D. Morgan

PrincipalFort Worth Fire Department1000 Throckmorton StreetFort Worth, TX 76102

E 8/2/2010AUT-PRI

David S. Mowrer

PrincipalBabcock & Wilcox Technical Services, LLCY-12 National Security ComplexPO Box 2009, MS-8107Oak Ridge, TN 37831-8107Alternate: Austin L. Smith

U 1/1/1982

AUT-PRI

Dale H. O'Dell

PrincipalNational Automatic Sprinkler Fitters LU 66914698 Stallion TrailsVictorville, CA 92392United Assn. of Journeymen & Apprentices of thePlumbing & Pipe Fitting IndustryAlternate: Charles W. Ketner

L 8/2/2010AUT-PRI

Shawn C. Olson

PrincipalClackamas County Fire District #12930 SE Oak Grove BoulevardMilwaukie, OR 97267

E 10/18/2011

2




AUT-PRI

Daniel Sanchez

PrincipalCity of Los AngelesBuilding & Safety201 North Figueroa Street, Suite 400Los Angeles, CA 90012

E 10/29/2012AUT-PRI

James R. Schifiliti

PrincipalFire Safety Consultants, Inc.2420 Alft Lane, Suite 100Elgin, IL 60124Illinois Fire Prevention Association

IM 1/18/2001

AUT-PRI

Peter T. Schwab

PrincipalWayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc.222 Capitol CourtOcoee, FL 34761-3033

IM 7/29/2005AUT-PRI

J. William Sheppard

PrincipalSheppard & Associates, LLC24756 Tudor LaneFranklin, MI 48025Alternate: Larry Keeping

SE 1/1/1984

AUT-PRI

Chen-Hsiang Su

PrincipalAon Fire Protection Engineering Corporation4 Overlook PointLincolnshire, IL 60069-4302

I 07/29/2013AUT-PRI

Scott M. Twele

PrincipalThe RJA Group, Inc.Rolf Jensen & Associates, Inc.591 Camino de la Reina, Suite 1025San Diego, CA 92108Alternate: James A. Zimmerman

SE 10/20/2010

AUT-PRI

Martin Ramos

Voting AlternateEnvironmental Systems Design, Inc.175 West Jackson Blvd., Suite 1400Chicago, IL 60604Voting Alt. to ESD Rep.

SE 3/15/2007AUT-PRI

Jon R. Ackley

AlternateDalmatian Fire, Inc.5670 West 73rd StreetIndianapolis, IN 46278National Fire Sprinkler AssociationDesignPrincipal: Roland A. Asp

M 10/29/2012

AUT-PRI

Mark A. Bowman

AlternateXL Global Asset Protection Services13467 Chevington DrivePickerington, OH 43147Principal: Brandon W. Frakes

I 1/15/2004AUT-PRI

William J. Gotto

AlternateGlobal Risk Consultants Corporation100 Walnut Avenue, 5th FloorClark, NJ 07066Principal: James B. Biggins

SE 8/5/2009

AUT-PRI

Cliff Hartford

AlternateTyco Fire Protection2034 Falkey RoadPhelps, NY 14532Principal: Kevin D. Maughan

M 10/4/2007AUT-PRI

Andrew C. Higgins

AlternateAllianz Risk Consultants, LLC38 Kilbride DrivePinehurst, NC 28374Principal: Stephen A. Clark, Jr.

I 3/21/2006

3




AUT-PRI

Luke Hilton

AlternateLiberty Mutual Property13830 Ballantyne Corporate Place, Suite 525Charlotte, NC 20277-2711Principal: Tanya M. Glumac

I 10/1/1996AUT-PRI

Larry Keeping

AlternateProfessional Loss Control3413 Wolfedale Road, Suite 6Mississauga, ON L5C 1V8 CanadaPrincipal: J. William Sheppard

SE 03/07/2013

AUT-PRI

Charles W. Ketner

AlternateNational Automatic Sprinkler Fitters LU 669Joint Apprenticeship & Training Committee7050 Oakland Mills RoadColumbia, MD 20732United Assn. of Journeymen & Apprentices of thePlumbing & Pipe Fitting IndustryPrincipal: Dale H. O'Dell

L 8/2/2010AUT-PRI

Michael G. McCormick

AlternateUL LLC333 Pfingsten RoadNorthbrook, IL 60062-2096Principal: George E. Laverick

RT 10/20/2010

AUT-PRI

Angele Morcos

AlternateFM Global1151 Boston-Providence TurnpikeNorwood, MA 02062Principal: David B. Fuller

I 07/29/2013AUT-PRI

Jeffrey J. Rovegno

AlternateMr. Sprinkler Fire Protection100 Derek PlaceRoseville, CA 95678American Fire Sprinkler AssociationPrincipal: Phillip A. Brown

IM 8/5/2009

AUT-PRI

Austin L. Smith

AlternateBabcock & Wilcox Y-12, LLCPO Box 2009, MS 8107Oak Ridge, TN 37831-8107Principal: David S. Mowrer

U 3/1/2011AUT-PRI

Ronald N. Webb

AlternateS.A. Comunale Company, Inc.2900 Newpark DriveBarberton, OH 44203National Fire Sprinkler AssociationInstaller/MaintainerPrincipal: James A. Charrette

IM 8/2/2010

AUT-PRI

James A. Zimmerman

AlternateThe RJA Group, Inc.600 West Fulton Street, Suite 500Chicago, IL 60661-1242Principal: Scott M. Twele

SE 03/05/2012AUT-PRI

Frans Alferink

Nonvoting MemberWavin Overseas7700 Ad DedemsvaartRollepaal 19Dedemsvaart, OV 7701 BR Netherlands

U 10/29/2012

AUT-PRI

Matthew J. Klaus

Staff LiaisonNational Fire Protection Association1 Batterymarch ParkQuincy, MA 02169-7471

12/16/2010

4

PART 3 –

NEW PROCESS WORKSHEETS

NEW PROCESS ACTIONS AND MOTIONS

Possible Action #1: Accept Public Comment (exactly as it is)

Action Required Sample motion

Create a Second Revision I move to create a Second Revision using PC #

______.

Possible action #2: Reject but see (revise submitted text)


Step 1 Create a Second Revision based on a

Public Comment

I move to create a Second Revision based on PC # _____with the following changes to the text . .

.

Step 2 If the revision is related to multiple PCs,

respond to all of them together using the cart function

I move to create a Second Revision based on PC # ____and incorporating PC #s _____with the

following changes to the text . . .

Possible action #3: Reject (no change to the standard)


Generate a statement (substantiation) I move to reject PC # ____ with the following

substantiation . . .

Possible Action #4: Reject but hold (new material)


Reject Public Comment for this cycle, but

save for next revision cycle

I move to reject PC # ____ but hold it for consideration during the First Draft meeting next

cycle.

PART 4 –

A2015 FIRST DRAFT MEETING MINUTES

TC on Private Water Supply Piping Systems

First Draft Meeting

Union Station Hotel

Nashville, Tennessee

August 12-13, 2013

Attendees:

See attached list of attendees.

1. Ken Wagoner (TC Chair) called the meeting to order at 8:00 am and began

introductions.

2. The A2012 ROC minutes were approved.

3. Matt Klaus gave the staff report and a presentation on the meeting procedures.

4. Ken Wagoner discussed the logistics for the meeting and the order of the task

group reporting.

5. The committee processed the public input that was included in the meeting

agenda. See the First Draft Report for the official actions on the public input and

the First Revisions created by the TC.

6. New Business: The TC discussed several topics that will be studied by task group

prior to the Second Draft Meeting. These topics and assignments are as follows:

i) Water Supply Data Task Group- PRI will work with members of the

Correlating Committee, SSD and NFPA 14 to further study the need for

guidance on water supply data for sprinkler/standpipe systems. Task group

members are as follows:

Bob Caputo (SSD) – TG Leader

Tanya Glumac (PRI)

Bob Morgan (PRI)

Roland Asp (PRI)

Will Smith (SSD)

Jon Ackley (SSD)

Shawn Shepherd (SSD)

ii) Trench Task Group - This task group will look at the revised “trench”

language in Chapter 10 of NFPA 24 and propose additional modifications

(including potential illustrations). Their review will include guidelines for the

design of the trench, along with requirements for valve locations.

Dave Fuller

Peter Schwab

Larry Keeping

Tanya Glumac

Bob Morgan

iii) Flushing Task Group – This task group will review the flushing requirements

in NFPA 24 and provide proposed modifications at the Second Draft meeting.

Larry Keeping

Roland Asp

Byron Ellis

Jim Biggins

Ken Wagoner

iv) NFPA 24 Rewrite Task Group – Prior to the Second Draft Meeting, the task

group will meet to resolve any issues that did not get covered at the first draft

meeting.

7. The Second Draft meeting is scheduled for Summer 2014 at a date and location to

be determined.

8. Meeting adjourned at 3:00 pm on August 13.

Attendees

Principals:

Kenneth Wagoner, Chair

Roland Asp

James Biggins

Stephen Clark

Byron Ellis

David Fuller

Tanya Glumac

Alan Laguna

George Laverick

Kevin Maughan

Bob Morgan

Dale O’Dell

Peter Schwab

Voting Alternate:

Michael Larsen

Alternates:

Jon Ackley

Cliff Hartford

Larry Keeping

Martin Ramos

Ronald Webb

Matthew Klaus, NFPA Staff Liaison

Guests:

Mike Whitehouse

Don McGriff

PART 5 –

A2015 KEY DATES

2015 ANNUAL REVISION CYCLE *Public Input Dates may vary according to standards and schedules for Revision Cycles may change. Please check the NFPA Website for the most up‐to‐date information on Public Input Closing Dates and schedules at

www.nfpa.org/document # (i.e. www.nfpa.org/101) and click on the Next Edition tab.

Process Stage

Process Step

Dates for

TC

Dates forTC with CC

Public Input Closing Date* 7/8/2013 7/8/2013

Final Date for TC First Draft Meeting 12/13/2013 9/13/2013

Public Input Posting of First Draft and TC Ballot 1/31/2014 10/25/2013

Stage Final date for Receipt of TC First Draft ballot 7/21/2014 11/15/2013

(First Draft) Final date for Receipt of TC First Draft ballot ‐ recirc 2/28/2014 11/22/2013

Posting of First Draft for CC Meeting 11/29/2013

Final date for CC First Draft Meeting 1/10/2014

Posting of First Draft and CC Ballot 1/31/2014

Final date for Receipt of CC First Draft ballot 2/21/2014

Final date for Receipt of CC First Draft ballot ‐ recirc 2/28/2014

Post First Draft Report for Public Comment 3/7/2014 3/7/2014

Public Comment Closing Date for Paper Submittal* 4/11/2014 4/11/2014

Public Comment Closing Date for Online Submittal (e‐PC)* 5/16/2014 5/16/2014

Final Date to Publish Notice of Consent Documents (Standards that received no Comments)

5/30/2014 5/30/2014

Appeal Closing Date for Consent Standards (Standards that received no Comments)

6/13/2014 6/13/2014

Final date for TC Second Draft Meeting 10/31/2014 7/25/2014

Comment Posting of Second Draft and TC Ballot 12/12/2014 9/5/2014

Stage Final date for Receipt of TC Second Draft ballot 1/2/2015 9/26/2014

(Second Final date for receipt of TC Second Draft ballot ‐ recirc 1/9/2015 10/3/2014

Draft) Posting of Second Draft for CC Meeting 10/10/2014

Final date for CC Second Draft Meeting 11/21/2014

Posting of Second Draft for CC Ballot 12/12/2014

Final date for Receipt of CC Second Draft ballot 1/2/2015

Final date for Receipt of CC Second Draft ballot ‐ recirc 1/9/2015

Post Second Draft Report for NITMAM Review 1/16/2015 1/16/2015

Tech Session Notice of Intent to Make a Motion (NITMAM) Closing Date 3/6/2015 3/6/2015

Preparation Posting of Certified Amending Motions (CAMs) and Consent Standards

5/1/2015 5/1/2015

(& Issuance) Appeal Closing Date for Consent Standards 5/16/2015 5/16/2015

SC Issuance Date for Consent Standards 5/26/2015 5/26/2015

Tech Session Association Meeting for Standards with CAMs 6/22‐25/2016 6/22‐25/2016

Appeals and Appeal Closing Date for Standards with CAMs 7/15/2015 7/15/2015

Issuance SC Issuance Date for Standards with CAMs 8/20/2015 8/20/2015

Approved___ October 18, 2011 _ Revised__March 7, 2013_____________

PART 6 –

PUBLIC COMMENTS

Public Comment No. 20-NFPA 24-2014 [ Section No. 2.3.2 ]

2.3.2 ASTM Publications.

ASTM International, 100 Barr Harbor Drive, P.O. Box C700, West Conshohocken, PA 19428-2959.

ASTM A 234/A 234M , Specification for Piping Fittings of Wrought Carbon Steel and Alloy Steel forModerate and Elevated Temperatures, 2007 2013e1 .

ASTM A 53/A 53M Standard Specification for Pipe, Steel, Black and Hot-Dipped, Zinc-Coated, Welded andSeamless, 2001 2012 .

ASTM A 135/A135M Standard Specification for Electric-Resistance- Welded Steel Pipe, 2001 09(2014) .

ASTM A 795/A 795M Standard Specification for Black and Hot-Dipped Zinc-Coated (Galvanized)Weldedand Seamless Steel Pipe for Fire Protection Use, 2000 2013 .

ASTM B 16.5 Cast Bronze Threaded Fittings, 1985. ??

ASTM B 43 Specification for Seamless Red Brass Pipe, 2009.

ASTM B 75, Specification for Seamless Copper Tube, 2002 2011 .

ASTM B 88, Specification for Seamless Copper Water Tube, 2003 2009 .

ASTM B 251, Requirements for Wrought Seamless Copper and Copper-Alloy Tube, 2002 2010 .

IEEE/ASTM-SI-10, Standard for Use of the International System of Units (SI): The Modern Metric System,2002 2010 .

Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Comment

Update year dates

Related Item

First Revision No. 20-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter A]

Submitter Information Verification

Submitter Full Name: Steve Mawn

Organization: ASTM International

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Thu May 15 15:14:23 EDT 2014

National Fire Protection Association Report http://submittals.nfpa.org/TerraViewWeb/ContentFetcher?commentPara...

1 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM


2.3.3 AWWA Publications.

American Water Works Association, 6666 West Quincy Avenue, Denver, CO 80235.

AWWA C104, Cement Mortar Lining for Ductile Iron Pipe and Fittings for Water, 2008.

AWWA C105, Polyethylene Encasement for Ductile Iron Pipe Systems, 2005.

AWWA C110, Ductile Iron and Gray Iron Fittings, 2008.

AWWA C111, Rubber-Gasket Joints for Ductile Iron Pressure Pipe and Fittings, 2000.

AWWA C115, Flanged Ductile Iron Pipe with Ductile Iron or Gray Iron Threaded Flanges, 2005.

AWWA C116, Protective Fusion-Bonded Epoxy Coatings for the Interior and Exterior Surfaces ofDuctile-Iron and Gray-Iron Fittings for Water Supply Service , 2003.

AWWA C150, Thickness Design of Ductile Iron Pipe, 2008.

AWWA C151, Ductile Iron Pipe, Centrifugally Cast for Water, 2002.

AWWA C153, Ductile-Iron Compact Fittings for Water Service, 2006.

AWWA C200, Steel Water Pipe 6 in. and Larger , 2005.

AWWA C203, Coal-Tar Protective Coatings and Linings for Steel Water Pipelines Enamel and Tape — HotApplied , 2002.

AWWA C205, Cement-Mortar Protective Lining and Coating for Steel Water Pipe 4 in. and Larger— ShopApplied , 2007.

AWWA C206, Field Welding of Steel Water Pipe , 2003.

AWWA C207, Steel Pipe Flanges for Waterworks Service — Sizes 4 in. Through 144 in., 2007.

AWWA C208, Dimensions for Fabricated Steel Water Pipe Fittings, 2007.

AWWA C300, Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type, 2004.

AWWA C301, Prestressed Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type, 2007.

AWWA C302, Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Non-Cylinder Type, 2004.

AWWA C303, Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type, Pretensioned, 2002.

AWWA C400, Standard for Asbestos-Cement Distribution Pipe, 4 in. Through 16 in. (100 mm through 400mm), for Water Distribution Systems, 2003.

AWWA C600, Standard for the Installation of Ductile Iron Water Mains and Their Appurtenances, 2005.

AWWA C602, Cement-Mortar Lining of Water Pipe Lines 4 in. and Larger — in Place, 2006.

AWWA C603, Standard for the Installation of Asbestos-Cement Pressure Pipe, 2005.

AWWA C900, Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe, 4 in. Through 12 in., for Water Distribution, 2007.

AWWA C905, AWWA Standard for Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe and Fabricated Fittings, 14 in.Through 48 in. (350 mm Through 1200 mm), 2010.

AWWA C906, Polyethylene (PE) Pressure Pipe and Fittings, 4 in. (100 mm) Through 63 in. (1575 mm) forWater Distribution, 2007.

AWWA C909, Molecularly Oriented Polyvinyl Chloride (PVCO) Pressure Pipe, 4 in. through 24 in. (100 mmthrough 600 mm), for Water, Wastewater, and Reclaimed Water Service2010

AWWA M11, A Guide for Steel Pipe Design and Installation, 4th edition, 2004.


Reference is made to the statement of problem and substantiation of Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 24-2014.


2 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Related Public Comments for This Document

Related Comment Relationship

Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 24-2014 [Section No. 10.1.1.1] Concordance

Related Item

First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10]


Submitter Full Name: Ariel Carp

Organization: On my behalf

Affilliation: On my behalf

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Wed May 07 19:08:28 EDT 2014


3 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Public Comment No. 15-NFPA 24-2014 [ Chapter 5 ]

Chapter 5 Water Supplies


4 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

5.1* Connection to Waterworks Systems.

5.1.1

A connection to a reliable waterworks system shall be an acceptable water supply source.

5.1.2*

The volume and pressure of a public water supply shall be determined from waterflow test data or otherapproved method.

5.2 Size of Fire Mains.

5.2.1 Private Fire Service Mains.

Hydraulic calculations shall show that the main is able to supply the total demand at the appropriatepressure for systems with multiple hydrants.

5.2.2 Mains Not Supplying Hydrants.

For mains that do not supply hydrants, pipe sizes less than 6 in. (152 mm) nominal size shall be permittedto be used subject to the following restrictions:

(1) The main shall supply only the following types of systems:

(a) Automatic sprinkler systems

(b) Open sprinkler systems

(c) Water spray fixed systems

(d) Foam systems

(e) Standpipe systems

(2) Hydraulic calculations shall show that the main is able to supply the total demand at the appropriatepressure.

(3) Systems that are not hydraulically calculated shall have a main at least as large as the riser.

5.3 Pressure-Regulating Devices and Meters.

5.3.1

Pressure-regulating valves shall not be used.

5.3.1.1

Pressure-regulating valves shall be permitted to be used when acceptable to the AHJ.

5.3.2

Where meters are required they shall be listed.

5.4* Connection from Waterworks Systems.

5.4.1

The requirements of the public health AHJ shall be determined and followed.

5.4.2

Where a backflow prevention device is installed to guard against possible cross-contamination of thepublic water system, it shall be listed for fire protection service.

5.4.2.1*

Where a check valve or alarm check valve is permitted by the AHJ in lieu of a backflow preventer, it shallbe listed for fire protection service.

5.5 Connections to Public Water Systems.

Connections to public water systems shall be arranged to be isolated by one of the methods permitted in6.2.9.

5.6* Pumps.

Fire pump units installed in accordance with NFPA 20and connected to a water supply source complyingwith Sections5.5, 5.7, or 5.8 shall use an acceptable water supply source.

5.7 Tanks.

Tanks shall be installed in accordance with NFPA 22.

5.8 Penstocks, Rivers, Lakes, or Reservoirs.

Water supply connections from penstocks, rivers, lakes, or reservoirs shall be designed to avoid mud andsediment and shall be provided with approved, double, removable screens or approved strainers installedin an approved manner.

5.9* Remote Fire Department Connections.


5 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

5.9.1 General.

Where the AHJ requires a remote fire department connection for systems requiring one by anotherstandard, a fire department connection shall be provided as described in Section 5.9.

5.9.1.1

Fire department connections shall be permitted to be omitted where approved by the AHJ.

5.9.1.2

Fire department connections shall be of an approved type.

5.9.1.3

Fire department connections shall be equipped with approved plugs or caps that are secured andarranged for easy removal by fire departments.

5.9.1.4

Fire department connections shall be protected where subject to mechanical damage.

5.9.2 Couplings.

5.9.2.1

The fire department connection(s) shall use an NH internal threaded swivel fitting(s) with an NH standardthread(s.), except as permitted by 5.9.2.3 and 5.9.2.4.

5.9.2.2

At least one of the connections shall be the 2.5 to 7.5 NH standard thread specified in NFPA 1963.

5.9.2.3

Where local fire department connections use threads that do not conform to NFPA 1963, the AHJ shalldesignate the thread to be used.

5.9.2.4

Non-threaded couplings shall be permitted where required by the AHJ.

Non-threaded couplings shall be listed for use as permitted in 5.9.2.4.

5.9.3 Valves.

5.9.3.1

A listed check valve shall be installed in the piping from each fire department connection.

5.9.3.2

Control valves shall not be installed in the piping from the fire department connection to the fire servicemain.

5.9.3.2.1*

Control valves shall be permitted in the system piping downstream of the fire department connectionpiping.

5.9.4 Drainage.

5.9.4.1

The pipe between the check valve and the outside hose coupling shall be equipped with an approvedautomatic drain valve.

5.9.4.2

The automatic drain valve shall be installed in a location that permits inspection and testing as required byNFPA 25 and reduces the likelihood of freezing.

5.9.4.2.1

The automatic drip shall be permitted to be buried where permitted by the AHJ.

5.9.4.2.2

Where the automatic drip is buried as allowed by 5.9.4.2.1, the outlet shall discharge into a bed ofcrushed stone or pea gravel.

5.9.4.3

An automatic drain valve is permitted to be omitted from areas where the piping is not subject to freezing.

5.9.4.4


5.9.5 Location and Signage.

5.9.5.1*

Remote fire department connections shall be located at the nearest point of fire department apparatusaccessibility or at a location approved by the AHJ.


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5.9.5.2*

Remote fire department connections shall be located and arranged so that hose lines can be attached tothe inlets without interference.

5.9.5.3*

Each remote fire department connection shall be designated by a sign as follows:

(1) The sign shall have raised or engraved letters at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) in height on a plate or fitting.

(2)

5.9.5.4

Where the system demand pressure exceeds 150 psi (10.3 bar), a sign located at the fire departmentconnection shall indicate the required inlet pressure.

5.9.5.5

Where a remote fire department connection only supplies a portion(s) of the building, a sign shall beattached to indicate the portion(s) of the building supplied.

5.9.5.6

Remote fire department connections shall not be connected on the suction side of fire pumps.

5.9.5.7

Where a remote fire department connection services multiple buildings, structures, or locations, a signshall be provided indicating the buildings, structures, or locations served.


CC NOTE: The following CC Note No. 2 appeared in the First Draft Report as First Revision No. 15.

The PRI TC should look at sections 5.9.4.4 and 5.9.4.2.1 to determine if these sections are redundant.

Related Item



Submitter Full Name: CC on AUT-AAC

Organization: CC on Automatic Sprinkler Systems

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Tue Apr 29 13:32:47 EDT 2014

* The sign shall indicate the type of system for which the connection is intended.


7 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Public Comment No. 18-NFPA 24-2014 [ New Section after 5.1.2 ]

5.1.3

5.1.3* Where a waterflow test was conducted, the volume and pressure available for use for a fireprotection system shall be determined from the following formula:

P = (P1 - P2)(Q/Q1)1.85 P2

5.1.3.1 The pressure P shall be what is considered available from the water supply to use for a fireprotection system that will be calculated for a given flow demand of Q.

5.1.3.2 The flow Q shall be demand flow of the fire protection system that will be used to calculate theavailable pressure from the water supply (P).

5.1.3.3* The variable P1 shall be the residual pressure measured during the waterflow test while the flow

Q1 was discharging from the water supply reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily

and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extremeconditions.

5.1.3.4* The variable P2 shall be the static pressure measured during the waterflow test reduced by the

specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be basedon 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions.

5.1.3.5 The variable Q1 shall be the flow associated with P1.

5.1.3.6* Where the specifying engineer or the water utility does not provide the value for P1 and P2, see

5.1.3.7.

5.1.3.7* Where a waterflow test has been conducted and the specifying engineer or the water authoritydoes not provide a value for P1 and P2, the value of for P1 and P2 shall be calculated by taking the static

pressure and residual pressure results from the flow test and reducing them by 5%.

Additional Proposed Changes

File Name Description Approved

Water_Supply_Adjustment_Proposal-E_S-24.pdf whole proposal with figures and equations


This is one of a series of proposals to make the adjustment to the data from a waterflow test required instead of recommended. If the adjustment is not required, contractors that do the right thing and adjust the data from tests are at a disadvantage from contractors that don't make any adjustment. It is fundamentally wrong to not make an adjustment to the data due to daily and seasonal fluctuations. This proposal makes a simple and easy to understand adjustment that is standardized so that there is no argument over what is supposed to happen. It is the intent to have this be the only adjustment. If the water utility has already performed the adjustment, or if the AHJ has already mandated a safety margin or safety factor to the waterflow data obtained from the test, this adjustment would not apply.

Related Item

Public Input No. 56-NFPA 24-2013 [New Section after 5.1.2]

Committee Input No. 2-NFPA 24-2013 [New Section after 5.1.2]


Submitter Full Name: Kenneth Isman

Organization: National Fire Sprinkler Association


8 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Affilliation: NFSA E&S Committee

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



9 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

NFSA Comment to NFPA 13 on Waterflow Test Adjustments

1) Delete A.5.1.2 A.5.1.2 An adjustment to the waterflow test data to account for the following should be made, as appropriate:

(1) Daily and seasonal fluctuations (2) Possible interruption by flood or ice conditions (3) Large simultaneous industrial use (4) Future demand on the water supply system (5) Other conditions that could affect the water supply

2) Insert a new 5.1.3 and annex notes as follows: 5.1.3* Where a waterflow test was conducted, the volume and pressure available for use for a fire protection system shall be determined from the following formula:

( ) 2

85.1

121 P

QQPPP +

−=

5.1.3.1 The pressure P shall be what is considered available from the water supply to use for a fire protection system that will be calculated for a given flow demand of Q. 5.1.3.2 The flow Q shall be demand flow of the fire protection system that will be used to calculate the available pressure from the water supply (P). 5.1.3.3* The variable P1 shall be the residual pressure measured during the waterflow test while the flow Q1 was discharging from the water supply reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions. 5.1.3.4* The variable P2 shall be the static pressure measured during the waterflow test reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions. 5.1.3.5 The variable Q1 shall be the flow associated with P1. 5.1.3.6* Where the specifying engineer or the water utility does not provide the value for P1 and P2, see 5.1.3.7. 5.1.3.7* Where a waterflow test has been conducted and the specifying engineer or the water authority does not provide a value for P1 and P2, the value of for P1 and P2 shall be calculated by

taking the static pressure and residual pressure results from the flow test and reducing them by 5%. A.5.1.3 Consider the following example. A waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system. During the test, the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, the residual pressure is measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. The water utility is contacted and they indicate that a reasonable low static pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area is 55 psi and that a reasonable low residual pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area at a flow of 1300 gpm is 35 psi. The equation that describes the water supply available for a fire sprinkler system would be:

( ) 551300

553585.1

+

−=

QP

There are two ways to use this formula. One would be to assume two different values for Q, calculate P and then draw a graph on log 1.85 paper. Any fire sprinkler system demand falling on or below the line on this graph would be acceptable in accordance with NFPA 13 to work with this water supply. In this case, the two easiest flows to pick for Q would be 0 and 1300 gpm. When Q = 0, P is simply 55 psi. When Q = 1300 gpm, P = 35 psi. These two points can be plotted on log 1.85 paper as shown in Figure A.5.1.3. The second way to use this formula would be to calculate the fire protection system and determine the flow necessary to make the system work. Plug this flow into the formula above and see what the available pressure from the water supply will be at that flow. For example, if a sprinkler system connected to this water supply had a demand of 580 gpm, the available pressure from the water supply would be:

( ) 551300

5805535

85.1

+

−=P

P = (-20)(0.225) + 55

P = 50.5 psi

So, as long as the sprinkler system has a pressure demand less than or equal to 50.5 psi, it will work with this water supply.

Figure A.5.1.3 Available Water Supply Curve for Example in Section A.5.1.3

A.5.1.3.3 The purpose of the adjustment required by this section is to take into account reasonable fluctuations that occur on a daily and seasonal basis, but not to burden the building owner with extreme conditions. During an extreme condition such as a water main break or a severe drought, the impaired system provisions of NFPA 25 can be employed to mitigate the circumstances of the extreme condition. The intent of this section is to apply the adjustment to the raw data obtained by the flow test and not to apply adjustments to values that have already been adjusted by water utilities. If a water utility has already provided flow and pressure data for use in the design of fire protection systems that already includes adjustments for daily and seasonal water usage, there is no need to make any additional adjustments to this data. A.5.1.3.4 See annex note A.5.1.3.3. A.5.1.3.6 Water utilities are the entities that know their own supplies the best and know what appropriate adjustments need to be made to flow test data to provide reasonable fire protection. In the potential situation where the water utility will not make a definitive statement with regard to an adjustment, the fire protection engineer is the person that would need to make a statement with respect to adjustments to the raw data from a flow test. Due to the judgment involved in making such a decision, the licensing laws in most states within the United States would require the fire protection engineer to make this determination rather than the fire protection system contractor. It is expected that the engineer would make these statements in the specifications provided to the fire protection system contractor. In the absence of any information from any authority on the subject, section 24.2.2.2.2 provides a standardized method of making a decision. A.5.1.3.7 This section provides a standardized method of making a decision regarding the reduction of the results from a waterflow test to determine what pressure and flow are available from a water supply when the specifying engineer and the water utility have not provided adjustment information. An example of how to use this standardized method follows.

If a waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system and the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, with the residual pressure measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. If there is no information from the specifying engineer or water utility regarding appropriate adjustments, the value of the static pressure and residual pressure need to be reduced by 5%. The static pressure would be adjusted from 70 psi to 66.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 66.5). The residual pressure at 1300 gpm would be reduced from 50 psi to 47.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 47.5). The results would be plotted on log 1.85 graph paper as shown in the lower curve on Figure A.5.1.3.7 and that curve would represent what the fire protection system contractor could use for a fire protection system.

Figure A.5.1.3.7 Available Water Supply Curve for Example in Section A.5.1.3.7


5.2.1 Private Fire Service Mains.

Hydraulic calculations shall show that the main is able to supply the total demand at the appropriatepressure for systems with multiple hydrants .


The current wording appears to infer that pressures and flow are not material for single fire hydrant installations. A 6" line may be completely insufficient to supply a single hydrant at the end of a long dead end with a high fire flow condition. The PC removes the multiple hydrant constraint.

Related Item



Submitter Full Name: Anthony Apfelbeck

Organization: Altamonte Springs Building/Fire Safety Division

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Thu Feb 20 21:04:49 EST 2014


10 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM


5.3.2

Where meters are required they shall be listed for fire protection .


It is important to indicate the listing needs to be for fire protection.

Related Item



Submitter Full Name: Peter Schwab

Organization: Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinkler

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Fri Apr 18 16:06:56 EDT 2014


11 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Public Comment No. 13-NFPA 24-2014 [ Section No. 5.9.2.4 ]

5.9.2.4


5.9.2.4.1 Non-threaded couplings shall be listed for use as permitted in 5 . 9.2.4.



LGK_NFPA_24-2013_Comment_5-9-2-4.pdf PC Form


Editorial. The two separate provisions should be written in two separate sections. Additionally, as written in the First Draft Report, the second sentence of Section 5.9.2.4 is referring to its own section number.

Related Item



Submitter Full Name: Larry Keeping

Organization: Professional Loss Control

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Thu Apr 24 13:50:51 EDT 2014


12 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM


5.9.2.4


5.9.2.4.1

Non-threaded couplings shall be listed for use as permitted in 5.9.2.4.


Manual of Style

Related Item





Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



13 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Public Comment No. 14-NFPA 24-2014 [ Sections 5.9.4.2, 5.9.4.3, 5.9.4.4 ]

Sections 5.9.4.2, 5.9.4.3, 5.9.4.4

5.9.4.2

The automatic drain valve shall be installed in a location that permits inspection and testing as required byNFPA 25 and reduces the likelihood of freezing.

5.9.4. 2.1


5.9.4.2.2

Where the automatic drip is buried as allowed by 5.9.4.2.1 , the outlet shall discharge into a bed ofcrushed stone or pea gravel.

5.9.4. 3

An automatic drain valve is permitted to be omitted from areas where the piping is not subject to freezing.

5.9.4.4






Neither PI No. 19 nor PI No.45 requested the text for 5.9.4.4. It appears to be a typographic error and it is redundant to the text proposed for 5.9.4.2.1, so it should be deleted.Regarding 5.9.4.2.1 and 5.9.4.2.2, this proposed text that would allow an automatic drain (ball drip) to be buried is contrary to the leading requirement 5.9.4.2 to make it accessible, as required by NFPA 25. If it is buried, it cannot be accessed.There is no reason to bury an automatic drain. Its function is to catch leakage from the Fire Department Connection’s check valve if subject to freezing. Since NFPA 13 in Section 8.17.2.5.1 requires that the check valve must be installed in an accessible location, it cannot be buried. As per NFPA 13, A.8.16.1.1.3 check valves should be “made accessible accessible for maintenance. This can be accomplished by a valve pit or any means that renders the valve accessible.” Therefore, there is no reason to allow the corresponding ball drip to be buried.Further a ball drip is not required unless the FDC piping is subject to freezing, and buried FDC piping would not be subject to freezing unless it was buried at too shallow a depth. So again, there is no reason to bury the automatic drain/ball drip.Thus, 5.9.4.2.1 and 5.9.4.2.2 should also be deleted.

Related Item

Public Input No. 18-NFPA 24-2012 [New Section after 5.9.4.2]

Public Input No. 19-NFPA 24-2012 [Section No. 5.9.4.3]

Public Input No. 45-NFPA 24-2013 [Section No. 5.9.4.3]




Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



14 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM


5.9.4.4



This language is already in Section 5.9.4.2.1

Related Item





Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



15 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM


6.2.1

A valve in accordance with Section 6.1shall be installed in each pipeline from each water supply.

6.2.1.1

Control valves shall not be installed in the piping from the fire department connection to the point itconnects to the fire service main.

6.2.1.2

Control valves shall be permitted in the system piping downstream of the fire department connection.


Modified the wording to indicate that the valve downstream of the FDC can only be in system piping.

Related Item

Public Input No. 88-NFPA 24-2013 [Section No. 6.2.2]




Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



16 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM



17 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

10.1.1.1 Listing.


18 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Piping manufactured in accordance with Table 10.1.1.1 shall be permitted to be used. .

Table 10.1.1.1 Manufacturing Standards for Underground Pipe

Materials and Dimensions

Ductile Iron

Cement Mortar Lining for Ductile Iron Pipe and Fittings for Water

Polyethylene Encasement for Ductile Iron Pipe Systems

Rubber-Gasket Joints for Ductile Iron Pressure Pipe and Fittings

Flanged Ductile Iron Pipe with Ductile Iron or Gray Iron Threaded Flanges

Thickness Design of Ductile Iron Pipe

Ductile Iron Pipe, Centrifugally Cast for Water

Standard for the Installation of Ductile Iron Water Mains and Their Appurtenances

Steel

Steel Water Pipe 6 in. and Larger

Coal-Tar Protective Coatings and Linings for Steel Water Pipelines Enamel and Tape — Hot Applied

Cement-Mortar Protective Lining and Coating for Steel Water Pipe 4 in. and Larger — Shop Applied

Field Welding of Steel Water Pipe

Steel Pipe Flanges for Waterworks Service — Sizes 4 in. Through 144 in.

Dimensions for Fabricated Steel Water Pipe Fittings

A Guide for Steel Pipe Design and Installation

Concrete

Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type

Prestressed Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type

Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Non-Cylinder Type

Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type, Pretensioned

Standard for Asbestos-Cement Distribution Pipe, 4 in. Through 16 in., for Water Distribution Systems

Cement-Mortar Lining of Water Pipe Lines 4 in. and Larger — in Place

Plastic

Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe, 4 in. Through 12 in., for Water Distribution


19 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Materials and Dimensions

Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe, 14 in. Through 48 in., for Water Distribution

Polyethylene (PE) Pressure Pipe and Fittings, 4 in. (100 mm) Through 63 in. (1575 mm) for Water Distribution

Molecularly Oriented Polyvinyl Chloride (PVCO) 4 in. Through 12 in. (100 mm Through 600 mm) for Water Distribution

Brass

Specification for Seamless Red Brass Pipe

Copper

Specification for Seamless Copper Tube

Specification for Seamless Copper Water Tube

Requirements for Wrought Seamless Copper and Copper-Alloy Tube


Same change is proposed for NFPA 13-2014. See Public Comment No. 222-NFPA 13-2014

Reference is made to First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10].

First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10] says that to select pipe for underground service there is the ability to use the Table 10.1.1.1 (former Table 10.1.1), the ability to use pipe specifically listed for underground use, and the allowance to use steel pipe between the FDC (Fire Department Connection) and the check valve.This statement is according NFPA 24-2013.

Also the First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10] says that the steel piping references were removed from the Table 10.1.1.1 since steel pipe is required to be listed except for the FDC line. This statement is not according NFPA 24-2013.According to NFPA 24-2013:- Steel pipe is not required to be listed except for general underground service.- Steel pipe is required to be listed except for the FDC line and except for not general underground service.

According to NFPA 24-2013, not listed steel can be used for an underground pipe main, when that pipe main is used only for fire service.

The paragraph 10.1.2 of NFPA 24-2013 says:Steel piping shall not be used for general underground service unless specifically listed for such service.

A general service refers to a pipe main that it is used for fire service and also for purposes other than fire service.

Not general service refers to a pipe main that it is used only for fire service and it is not used for other purposes.

Steel piping can be used for general underground service if it is listed.If it is not listed, it can not be used for general underground service.If the service of the pipe main is not general, if it is for fire service only (e.g. it is not used for purposes other than fire service), then steel can be used.For fire service only:- if steel is listed, the proper condition of listing provides the ability to use it. - if steel is not listed, steel can be used (again: for fire service only) because its inclusion in the Table 10.1.1.1 provides the ability to use it.

If steel is removed from the Table 10.1.1.1, the ability to use not listed steel for fire service only, also is removed. Removing steel from Table 10.1.1.1 implies that steel pipe will be required to be listed in order to be used for


20 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

underground fire service.This is not a current requirement of NFPA 24-2013. Removing steel from Table 10.1.1.1 implies a change to the NFPA 24-2013. Currently there is the ability to use not listed steel for underground fire service only, but as a consequence of the proposal shown in First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10], there will not be anymore the ability to use not listed steel for underground fire service. This is a change to the NFPA 24-2013. The statement included in the First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10] : “The steel piping references were removed from the table since steel pipe is required to be listed other than in the FDC line”, is not according NFPA 24-2013. As NFPA 24-2013 Annotated explains: “Accordingly, steel pipe can no longer be installed for general underground service, unless it is specially listed for the purpose.” (bold letters included on purpose).

NFPA 24-2013 Annotated also says: “At this time, no such listings are available.” This is also true today. UL and FM does not have steel pipe listed for underground use. There is no expectation that UL and/or FM will list the steel for underground use in the future. To live the ability to use steel for underground use, only if it is listed, introduces a constraint that it will be very difficult or impossible to surmount, and practically converts the steel for underground use in something unreal. To keep questioned the steel for underground use brings the existent firewater piping underground installations into question as well as other pipe underground installations that are made of steel.

It is requested to keep the steel in the Table 10.1.1.1 in order to prevent doing a change whose current substantiation cause and effect that it is seems to not be foreseen in the First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10]: steel pipe will not be able to be installed anymore for any underground service.

Related Item






Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Wed Feb 19 16:51:47 EST 2014


21 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM


10.2.1.3

Approved fittings shall be permitted to be used.


There are available fittings on the market that are listed or are in accordance with Table 10.2.1.1. This section allows practically anything as long as it is approved.

Related Item

Public Input No. 39-NFPA 24-2012 [Section No. 10.2]




Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



22 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Public Comment No. 11-NFPA 24-2014 [ Section No. 10.4.2.1.7.1 ]

10.4.2.1.7.1

Heat tracing not listed for underground use shall be permitted when piping is installed in accordance with10.1. 4.2.2.5 .


I believe this is the correct section to reference.

Related Item





Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



23 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM


10.5.1.1 *

The requirement of 10 of 10 .6 5 .8 1 shall not preclude the bonding of the underground piping to thelightning protection grounding system as required by NFPA 780 in those cases where lightning protection isprovided for the structure.





Editorial correction. The reference was not revised during the Chapter 10 rewrite.

Related Item





Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



24 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

Public Comment No. 19-NFPA 24-2014 [ New Section after A.5.1.2 ]


25 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

A.5.1.3 Consider the following example. A waterflow test is conducted at a location where a citywater main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system. During the test, the static pressure ismeasured at 70 psi, the residual pressure is measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was dischargingfrom a nearby hydrant. The water utility is contacted and they indicate that a reasonable low staticpressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area is 55 psi and that areasonable low residual pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this areaat a flow of 1300 gpm is 35 psi. The equation that describes the water supply available for a firesprinkler system would be:

There are two ways to use this formula. One would be to assume two different values for Q,calculate P and then draw a graph on log 1.85 paper. Any fire sprinkler system demand falling onor below the line on this graph would be acceptable in accordance with NFPA 13 to work with thiswater supply. In this case, the two easiest flows to pick for Q would be 0 and 1300 gpm. When Q =0, P is simply 55 psi. When Q = 1300 gpm, P = 35 psi. These two points can be plotted on log 1.85paper as shown in Figure A.5.1.3.

The second way to use this formula would be to calculate the fire protection system and determinethe flow necessary to make the system work. Plug this flow into the formula above and see whatthe available pressure from the water supply will be at that flow. For example, if a sprinkler systemconnected to this water supply had a demand of 580 gpm, the available pressure from the watersupply would be:

P = (-20)(0.225) 55

P = 50.5 psi

So, as long as the sprinkler system has a pressure demand less than or equal to 50.5 psi, it willwork with this water supply.


A.5.1.3.3 The purpose of the adjustment required by this section is to take into account reasonablefluctuations that occur on a daily and seasonal basis, but not to burden the building owner withextreme conditions. During an extreme condition such as a water main break or a severe drought,the impaired system provisions of NFPA 25 can be employed to mitigate the circumstances of theextreme condition.

The intent of this section is to apply the adjustment to the raw data obtained by the flow test andnot to apply adjustments to values that have already been adjusted by water utilities. If a waterutility has already provided flow and pressure data for use in the design of fire protection systemsthat already includes adjustments for daily and seasonal water usage, there is no need to makeany additional adjustments to this data.

A.5.1.3.4 See annex note A.5.1.3.3.

A.5.1.3.6 Water utilities are the entities that know their own supplies the best and know whatappropriate adjustments need to be made to flow test data to provide reasonable fire protection. Inthe potential situation where the water utility will not make a definitive statement with regard to anadjustment, the fire protection engineer is the person that would need to make a statement withrespect to adjustments to the raw data from a flow test. Due to the judgment involved in makingsuch a decision, the licensing laws in most states within the United States would require the fireprotection engineer to make this determination rather than the fire protection system contractor. Itis expected that the engineer would make these statements in the specifications provided to thefire protection system contractor. In the absence of any information from any authority on thesubject, section 24.2.2.2.2 provides a standardized method of making a decision.

A.5.1.3.7 This section provides a standardized method of making a decision regarding thereduction of the results from a waterflow test to determine what pressure and flow are availablefrom a water supply when the specifying engineer and the water utility have not providedadjustment information. An example of how to use this standardized method follows.

If a waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for anew sprinkler system and the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, with the residual pressure


26 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. If there is noinformation from the specifying engineer or water utility regarding appropriate adjustments, thevalue of the static pressure and residual pressure need to be reduced by 5%.

The static pressure would be adjusted from 70 psi to 66.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 66.5).

The residual pressure at 1300 gpm would be reduced from 50 psi to 47.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 47.5).

The results would be plotted on log 1.85 graph paper as shown in the lower curve on FigureA.5.1.3.7 and that curve would represent what the fire protection system contractor could use for afire protection system.




Water_Supply_Adjustment_Proposal-E_S-24.pdf Whole comment with equations and figures


This is one of a series of proposals to make the adjustment to the data from a waterflow test required instead of recommended. If the adjustment is not required, contractors that do the right thing and adjust the data from tests are at a disadvantage from contractors that don't make any adjustment. It is fundamentally wrong to not make an adjustment to the data due to daily and seasonal fluctuations. This proposal makes a simple and easy to understand adjustment that is standardized so that there is no argument over what is supposed to happen. It is the intent to have this be the only adjustment. If the water utility has already performed the adjustment, or if the AHJ has already mandated a safety margin or safety factor to the waterflow data obtained from the test, this adjustment would not apply.

Related Item







Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



27 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

NFSA Comment to NFPA 13 on Waterflow Test Adjustments

1) Delete A.5.1.2 A.5.1.2 An adjustment to the waterflow test data to account for the following should be made, as appropriate:

(1) Daily and seasonal fluctuations (2) Possible interruption by flood or ice conditions (3) Large simultaneous industrial use (4) Future demand on the water supply system (5) Other conditions that could affect the water supply

2) Insert a new 5.1.3 and annex notes as follows: 5.1.3* Where a waterflow test was conducted, the volume and pressure available for use for a fire protection system shall be determined from the following formula:

( ) 2

85.1

121 P

QQPPP +

−=

5.1.3.1 The pressure P shall be what is considered available from the water supply to use for a fire protection system that will be calculated for a given flow demand of Q. 5.1.3.2 The flow Q shall be demand flow of the fire protection system that will be used to calculate the available pressure from the water supply (P). 5.1.3.3* The variable P1 shall be the residual pressure measured during the waterflow test while the flow Q1 was discharging from the water supply reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions. 5.1.3.4* The variable P2 shall be the static pressure measured during the waterflow test reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions. 5.1.3.5 The variable Q1 shall be the flow associated with P1. 5.1.3.6* Where the specifying engineer or the water utility does not provide the value for P1 and P2, see 5.1.3.7. 5.1.3.7* Where a waterflow test has been conducted and the specifying engineer or the water authority does not provide a value for P1 and P2, the value of for P1 and P2 shall be calculated by

taking the static pressure and residual pressure results from the flow test and reducing them by 5%. A.5.1.3 Consider the following example. A waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system. During the test, the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, the residual pressure is measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. The water utility is contacted and they indicate that a reasonable low static pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area is 55 psi and that a reasonable low residual pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area at a flow of 1300 gpm is 35 psi. The equation that describes the water supply available for a fire sprinkler system would be:

( ) 551300

553585.1

+

−=

QP

There are two ways to use this formula. One would be to assume two different values for Q, calculate P and then draw a graph on log 1.85 paper. Any fire sprinkler system demand falling on or below the line on this graph would be acceptable in accordance with NFPA 13 to work with this water supply. In this case, the two easiest flows to pick for Q would be 0 and 1300 gpm. When Q = 0, P is simply 55 psi. When Q = 1300 gpm, P = 35 psi. These two points can be plotted on log 1.85 paper as shown in Figure A.5.1.3. The second way to use this formula would be to calculate the fire protection system and determine the flow necessary to make the system work. Plug this flow into the formula above and see what the available pressure from the water supply will be at that flow. For example, if a sprinkler system connected to this water supply had a demand of 580 gpm, the available pressure from the water supply would be:

( ) 551300

5805535

85.1

+

−=P

P = (-20)(0.225) + 55

P = 50.5 psi

So, as long as the sprinkler system has a pressure demand less than or equal to 50.5 psi, it will work with this water supply.


A.5.1.3.3 The purpose of the adjustment required by this section is to take into account reasonable fluctuations that occur on a daily and seasonal basis, but not to burden the building owner with extreme conditions. During an extreme condition such as a water main break or a severe drought, the impaired system provisions of NFPA 25 can be employed to mitigate the circumstances of the extreme condition. The intent of this section is to apply the adjustment to the raw data obtained by the flow test and not to apply adjustments to values that have already been adjusted by water utilities. If a water utility has already provided flow and pressure data for use in the design of fire protection systems that already includes adjustments for daily and seasonal water usage, there is no need to make any additional adjustments to this data. A.5.1.3.4 See annex note A.5.1.3.3. A.5.1.3.6 Water utilities are the entities that know their own supplies the best and know what appropriate adjustments need to be made to flow test data to provide reasonable fire protection. In the potential situation where the water utility will not make a definitive statement with regard to an adjustment, the fire protection engineer is the person that would need to make a statement with respect to adjustments to the raw data from a flow test. Due to the judgment involved in making such a decision, the licensing laws in most states within the United States would require the fire protection engineer to make this determination rather than the fire protection system contractor. It is expected that the engineer would make these statements in the specifications provided to the fire protection system contractor. In the absence of any information from any authority on the subject, section 24.2.2.2.2 provides a standardized method of making a decision. A.5.1.3.7 This section provides a standardized method of making a decision regarding the reduction of the results from a waterflow test to determine what pressure and flow are available from a water supply when the specifying engineer and the water utility have not provided adjustment information. An example of how to use this standardized method follows.

If a waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system and the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, with the residual pressure measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. If there is no information from the specifying engineer or water utility regarding appropriate adjustments, the value of the static pressure and residual pressure need to be reduced by 5%. The static pressure would be adjusted from 70 psi to 66.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 66.5). The residual pressure at 1300 gpm would be reduced from 50 psi to 47.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 47.5). The results would be plotted on log 1.85 graph paper as shown in the lower curve on Figure A.5.1.3.7 and that curve would represent what the fire protection system contractor could use for a fire protection system.


Public Comment No. 17-NFPA 24-2014 [ Section No. A.5.1.2 ]

A.5.1.2

An adjustment to the waterflow test data to account for the following should be made, as appropriate:

(1) Daily and seasonal fluctuations

(2) Possible interruption by flood or ice conditions

(3) Large simultaneous industrial use

(4) Future demand on the water supply system

(5) Other conditions that could affect the water supply


This is one of a series of proposals to improve the adjustment made to the data obtained from a waterflow test. Rather than leave it in the annex as a suggestion, the adjustment needs to be made as a requirement.

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28 of 28 5/21/2014 9:39 AM

PART 6A –

PUBLIC COMMENTS



184 of 579 5/19/2014 1:50 PM

10.1.1.1

Piping manufactured in accordance with Table 10.1.1.1 shall be permitted to be used. [24:10.1.1.1]

Table 10.1.1.1 Manufacturing Standards for Underground Pipe

Materials and Dimensions Standard

Ductile Iron

Cement Mortar Lining for Ductile Iron Pipe and Fittings for Water AWWA C104

Polyethylene Encasement for Ductile Iron Pipe Systems AWWA C105

Rubber-Gasket Joints for Ductile Iron Pressure Pipe and Fittings AWWA C111

Flanged Ductile Iron Pipe with Ductile Iron or Gray Iron Threaded Flanges AWWA C115

Thickness Design of Ductile Iron Pipe AWWA C150

Ductile Iron Pipe, Centrifugally Cast for Water AWWA C151

Standard for the Installation of Ductile Iron Water Mains and Their Appurtenances AWWA C600

Steel

Steel Water Pipe 6 in. and LargerAWWAC200

Coal-Tar Protective Coatings and Linings for Steel Water Pipelines Enamel and Tape —HotApplied

AWWAC203

Cement-Mortar Protective Lining and Coating for Steel Water Pipe 4 in. and Larger — ShopApplied

AWWAC205

Field Welding of Steel Water PipeAWWAC206

Steel Pipe Flanges for Waterworks Service —Sizes 4 in. Through 144 in.AWWAC207

Dimensions for Fabricated Steel Water Pipe FittingsAWWAC208

A Guide for Steel Pipe Design and Installation AWWA M11

Concrete

Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type AWWA C300

Prestressed Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type AWWA C301

Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Non-Cylinder Type AWWA C302

Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type, Pretensioned AWWA C303

Standard for Asbestos-Cement Distribution Pipe, 4 in. Through 16 in., for Water DistributionSystems

AWWA C400

Cement-Mortar Lining of Water Pipe Lines 4 in. and Larger — in Place AWWA C602

Plastic

Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe, 4 in. Through 12 in., for Water Distribution AWWA C900

Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe, 14 in. Through 48 in., for Water Distribution AWWA C905

Polyethylene (PE) Pressure Pipe and Fittings, 4 in. (100 mm) Through 63 in. (1575 mm) forWater Distribution

AWWA C906

Molecularly Oriented Polyvinyl Chloride (PVCO) 4-24 in. AWWA C909

Brass

Specification for Seamless Red Brass Pipe ASTM B43

Copper

Specification for Seamless Copper Tube ASTM B 75

Specification for Seamless Copper Water Tube ASTM B 88

Requirements for Wrought Seamless Copper and Copper-Alloy Tube ASTM B 251

[24:Table 10.1.1.1]


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Reference is made to First Revision No. 49-NFPA 13-2013 [ Global Input ]This proposal ensures correlation and identical requirements between NFPA 13 and NFPA 24 for underground private fire service mains.Reference is made to the statement of problem and substantiation of Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 24-2014.

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First Revision No. 49-NFPA 13-2013 [Global Input]





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186 of 579 5/19/2014 1:50 PM

Public Comment No. 219-NFPA 13-2014 [ New Section after 10.1.4.1 ]

10.1.4.2 Where plastic underground piping is provided above grade or inside a building, pipingshall be protected, as per manufacturer requirements, such as from direct rays of sunlight,incompatible materials, or the weight of the sprinkler riser on the piping.

10.1.4.2.1 One suitable protection method for this plastic piping is sleeving.


It is my understanding that the TC intends to allow PVC underground piping to enter a building to supply the sprinkler system inside a building. My concerns include: 1. Weight of the spinkler riser on the PVC pipe - is it tested for vertical loading in this regard? 2. Incompatibility with various chemicals, including floor coatings - the Arrangement section in NFPA 13 no longer seems to adequately address that potential concern. 3. Potential to exposure from sunlight. I have not yet seen manufacturer information indicating that PVC piping is being tested for vertical loading, especially to hold a sprinkler riser plus backflow preventer. I have been told by UL that such arrangement would not violate the listing of the subject piping. I have made contact with manufacturers attempting to verify if the piping is tested for such installation, and if the warranty would not be voided. My intent with this proposal is simply to ensure that such plastic piping is sutiably protected from conditions that could damage or degrade the piping supplying water to the fire protection system(s).

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First Revision No. 49-NFPA 13-2013 [Global Input]


Submitter Full Name: Bob Morgan

Organization: Fort Worth Fire Department

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187 of 579 5/19/2014 1:50 PM

June 17, 2014, San Diego, CA

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