Islam and Krishna Consciousness

8/6/2019 Islam and Krishna Consciousness

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Islam & Krishna consciousness

All faiths agree that He is the One True God, being free from all material

imperfections, limitations and or short-comings. He is the Supreme Being full in

all spiritual attributes, and is totally complete in every way. He is the One

Supreme Being without any equal (Quran 24:55. Sri Ishopanishad mantra 1.)

Understanding Islam and Krishna consciousness

How A Muslim Came To Krishna

MINGLING OF TWO OCEANS- HINDUISM AND ISLAM

Islam and Vegetarianism
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Understanding Islam and Krishna consciousness

All faiths agree that He is the One True God, being free from all material

imperfections, limitations and or short-comings. He is the Supreme Being full in all

spiritual attributes, and is totally complete in every way. He is the One Supreme Beingwithout any equal (Quran 24:55. Sri Ishopanishad mantra 1.)

When we keep to these statements most everyone will agree. However, when we

begin to look at the miraculous things that He has done in a myriad of places, with

different devotees, at different times, suddenly there are some objections. Those

persons begin to put limitations upon Him saying He can't do this, cannot appear

there, or cannot be like this or that. Factually, this is our putting material confines on

what we think God should be or is like. He can do whatever He wants to do, or be.

One thing that dearly needs to be made clear is that He, the Lord, His Divine Name(s),

teachings, places of His pastimes etc., are all of His nature and entourage, they are as

worshippable as He being in relation to Him, they are not different from Him and are

His.

Ali, upon whom be peace, the Commander of the Faithful, says in the first sermon of

the Nahj al-balaghah, "The beginning of religion is the knowledge of the pure divine

essence, and the perfection of such knowledge lies in faith in that sacred being.

Perfect belief, in turn, lies in sincere devotion at His threshold, and perfect devotion is

none other than the dissociation of that Unique Principle from all the attributes of

contingent beings.

"Beware, for He cannot be described with any mundane attribute, for them difference

would appear between the name and the attribute. Whoever attempts to describe Him

with an attribute is, in effect, creating a like and a partner for Him, or rather he is

seeing God to be two. Whoever sees God to be two is attempting to divide His being.

Such a person lacks all knowledge and insight into the nature of God's unique being

and is blind and ignorant.

"The one who is thus deprived of vision will attempt to point to God (i.e., restrict Him

to a given time and place), and whoever does this posits imprisoning limits for theCreator of all being and makes Him finite. Whoever limits and restricts Him in this

way regards Him as a measurable quantity. Whoever asks: "Where is God?"

unintentionally makes of Him a body enclosed within another body, and whoever

asks, "In what is God engaged?" unintentionally states that certain places are empty of

His being."

As one friend asked me, "Where is God?" "Where is He not?" was my reply.


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The point is we have to understand that His Name and spiritual attributes are different

from those of this temporal world, of dualities, frailties etc. So we can point out that

there are attributes, but they are not mundane limited attributes rather they are

spiritual attributes which are full of His potency.

This is important for all to understand so that each can understand that each of Hisattribute(s) is in itself infinite and co-extensive with the infinitude of the essence. God

is free of and exempt from finite attributes that might be distinct from each other and

separate from the essence.

There is a vast difference in seeing God or God's hand in the world and seeing many

Gods. The analogy can be used of that of a King. The King and the power of the King

are the same, the power emanates from him. So similarly When God appears or when

His power is shown, or when He empowers a great prophet or saint His presence can

be tangibly appreciated.

The difference is when someone tries to claim something which is false. Such as a

minister in the King's government, if he tries to claim something of the King's as his

own or for himself then he's punishable. When the minister admits that he's the

humble servant of the King and is genuinely doing the King's work without deviation

then who will not offer respects. We do not offer respects to a cheater, and we do not

offer our respects to the minister for himself. But as the representative of the King we

offer respects.

This same understanding should be there in the Vedic schools of theology also. The

various devas - demigods, empowered beings are exactly that. They have beenentrusted, empowered to perform ministerial duties in the Kingdom of the Supreme

God, and for that we offer them all respect. Without that service, they are neither

empowered nor worthy of such respect.

No Independent Existence:

Just as if one looks at a coconut and asks about each of the elements thereof; what is

this - pointing to the outer husk, its coconut husk. Breaking that open and revealing

the coconut kernel within, we so call it 'coconut kernel'. When that is broken too, it

reveals coconut meat and coconut milk. All of them are in relation to coconut, and

without coconut they have no independent existence. So in the same way the beings ofthis world have no independent existence without the Supreme Being, God. He is the

One Independent Being (Swatantra), everyone and everything else in creation, all the

living entities, even the saints, prophets, sages, rishis, even the demons, as well as all

material elements are all reliant on Him for their/our existence, therefore all that is

Aswatantra - or dependent upon Him.
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In one sense everything is part of Him, but at the same time everything by His

expanding potency appears outside of Him too. It is one with Him yet inconceivably

different too. When He appears He does so as He wants, and uses the material

elements and saintly associates of His entourage (parishad) to uphold religious

principles and destroy the evils of the world that afflict His interests.

Looking at the chart He has a whole realm to choose from to appear through, and

does. He is completely Independent in how the creation is created and maintained

under His direction. He as the Supreme Being appoints His representatives to serve

universal affairs on His behalf, but He always remains totally independent, and they

dependent upon Him in every regard. There's no question of there being an equal or

partner or something other than the Original Supreme Absolute Being - God. This is

echoed throughout the Vedic scriptures.

om prnam adah prnam idam

prnt prnam udacyateprnasya prnam dya

prnam evvashishyate

[Ishopanishad, Invocation]

The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely

perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly

equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the complete whole is also

complete in itself. Because He is the complete whole, even though so many complete

units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.

The Supreme Lord, the Absolute Truth, is prna, or complete in Himself. And since

this cosmic world is a manifestation of His potency, it also appears to be prna. In

other words, because this material world is an emanation from the Supreme Lord, it is

non-different from Him, exactly as the suns rays are non-different from the sun

globe, which is the source of their emanation. Similarly the living beings, who are

expansions of the superior, or conscious, energy of the Supreme Lord, are also non-

different from Him, although this non-difference is qualitative and not quantitative.

The gold found in golden ornaments such as rings and bracelets is qualitatively

identical with the gold in a mine, but the gold in the mine is quantitatively far superiorto the tiny quantity of gold in a bracelet or ring. Similarly, although we are

qualitatively one with God, being spiritual emanations of His unlimited potency, we

are quantitatively infinitesimal and eternally subordinate to His supreme power.

Therefore the Lord is called vibhu, or infinitely potent, and we are anu, or

infinitesimal and dependent.
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This is further confirmed in the Vedik literature by the statement nityo nitynm

chetanash chetannm eko bahnm yo vidadhti kmn (Katha Upaniad 2:2:13).

There are innumerable eternal living entities who are eternally and totally dependent

upon the supreme singular living entity, the Supreme Lord. That dependence is not an

illusion created by material existence, as stated by the impersonalist philosophers, but

is an eternal relationship in which the Lord is eternally superior and we are eternallyinferior. The Lord is eternally independent, and we are eternally dependent. The Lord

is eternally absolute in Himself, and we are eternally relative to His supreme

personality.

Although the Lord is infinitely greater than any other living being, or than all of

them combined, every living being is qualitatively non-different from the Lord (as in

the example of the gold), because all living beings are parts and parcels emanating

from Him (mamaivmsho jiva-loke jiva-bhtah santanah [Bhagavad Gita. 15:7].).

ntah param parama yad bhavatah svarpam

nanda-mtram avikalpam aviddha-varcah

pashymi vishva-srijam ekam avishvam tman

bhtendriytmaka-madas ta upshrito smi

SYNONYMS

nado not; atah paramhereafter; paramaO Supreme; yatthat which;

bhavatahof Your Lordship; svarpameternal form; nanda-mtramimpersonal

Brahman effulgence; avikalpamwithout changes; aviddha-varcahwithout

deterioration of potency; pashymido I see; vishva-srijamcreator of the cosmic

manifestation; ekamone without a second; avishvamand yet not of matter;

tmanO Supreme Cause; bhtabody; indriyasenses; tmakaon such

identification; madahpride; teunto You; upshritahsurrendered; asmiI am.

TRANSLATION

O my Lord, I do not see a form superior to Your present form of eternal bliss and

knowledge. In Your impersonal Brahman effulgence in the spiritual sky, there is no

occasional change and no deterioration of internal potency. I surrender unto You

because whereas I am proud of my material body and senses, Your Lordship is the

cause of the cosmic manifestation and yet You are untouched by matter.

PURPORT extract by HDG Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

As stated in Bhagavad Git (18:55), bhakty mm abhijnti yvn yash chsmi

tattvatah: the Supreme Personality of Godhead can only be partially known, and only

by the process of devotional service to the Lord.

The Quran says: "Ask them, 'Show me these partners whom you worship in place of

God. Have they created anything from earth or have they shared with God in the


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creation of the heavens? Have we given them a book on which they rely in their

ascription of partners to us?' No, the wrongdoers deceive each other with their false

promises. Certainly it is God Who preserves the heavens and the earth from collapse

and annihilation; were they about to collapse and be annihilated; there is none other

who could preserve them. Know that God is most forbearing and forgiving." (35:40-

41)

But at the same time, not subjecting Him to our mundane limitations, if He so wants

to appear before us, then who are we to say He cannot. We may not understand, that is

another thing, still that doesn't mean He cannot do whatever He wants, when He

wants and to womb He wants, or interact with whoever He wants according to His

own sweet plan.

To Moses He appeared in the Form of a burning bush, again to Moses the mighty

hand of the Lord was seen in action separating the waters of the Red sea, the sound of

God that Moses heard upon the Mount when receiving the Ten Commandments, theLord also appeared in the Form of sound to Mohammed in the cave giving him Divine

instruction, and so on.

These are all Personal Attributes of the Supreme Absolute Lord.

Islam teaches that there are 99 names for the one God. Why? Because God is

Supreme, He is unknowable: Bigger than that, more than that. It is hard to put a frame

around the Divine.

So the 99 names are reminders of God's aspects or attributes: the Merciful, theCompassionate, the Truth, the Light, the First, the Last, the Unfathomable, the

Exalter, the Abaser, the Creator. The hope is that by remembering God's names -- an

act known as dhikr in Arabic -- Muslims will look at the world and witness the divine

in everything and every situation by associating with the attributes of God - Allah.

It is one of the tools that Muslims use to know their creator better. By trying to

emulate the 99 ``beautiful names,'' as the Quran puts it, Muslims try to become better

people. God's names are their guide. God sets the example. During Ramadan, the

sacred month when followers of Islam commemorate the time when Mohammed

received sacred teachings from the Angel Gabriel, many Muslims pick one of theNames of God to meditate upon each day: Al-Karim, the Generous One, or Al-Haqq,

the Truth, and meditate on it -- as one in another religion (discipline) might meditate

on a mantra . . . Obviously, we're dealing with a concept that's impossible to attach

words to, so these Divine Names provide a direction for understanding something

about the Divine.'' They are all of Divine attribute, adjectives describing the Person

God and His glories.
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Personal or Impersonal?:

In religion, there are two concepts of God. One is a Personal God who is represented

by Yahweh in Judaism, Jehovah in Christianity, Allah in Islam, and Vishnu and Shiva

in Hinduism. In Buddhism and Taoism there is no emphasis on a Personal God. A

Personal God is one who is like a super being, an anthropomorphic entity, that rules

heaven and earth and has a purpose, intent, emotions and so on very similar to us jivas

- human beings.

Sometimes, due to seeing such similarities, some persons opt to accept only an

impersonal aspect of God, due to the frailties of man. But the difference in the two are

the natures of the two; God is full in all attributes, infallible, full of all opulence, all

famous, all powerful, all attractive, and eternally existing etc; us tiny souls may have

some of these qualities, but the proportionate quantity that we have them is different.

Sometimes an example is given of gold in a ring and gold in a mine - both are pure

gold, but the quantity of the gold in the ring and the mine are different. So similarly,

we may have so many attributes similar to His, but ours have less potency, and are

subject to the influences of the material world such as being imperfect, whereas God

is all perfect, we make mistakes, He never does, we are subject to illusion, He controls

illusion and dispels it to enlighten us, and so on.

By our material limited senses surely He is the Infinite God as being indescribable,

indefinable and inconceivable. However, that is not a lacking on His part, but a

lacking on ours. For to some He reveals His Divine nature, He reveals His attributes,

to some even His Personal Form.

If we say He cannot, then we're trying to put limitations upon Him, for He is the

Unlimited Independent Absolute free to do as He likes or does not like with, and in

His creation.

Some, who are of the impersonal schools argue that in Judaism, Christianity, Islam

and Hinduism, the personal God is given these all-knowing and omnipotent qualities,

but without the consideration that any description of God, is a limitation on God. The

Infinite God is beyond description and without limitations.

The fact of the matter is that from the Energetic the energy comes and not the other

way around. You may hear of me long before you meet me, and that is an impersonalappreciation. After meeting me, to treat me impersonally doesn't match to the full

potential our a relationship, thus could be seen as being somewhat rude.

Some try to present that the Infinite God is the potential of all things and has no

beginning and has no end. The truth is however, as we pointed out earlier that as far as

spiritual nature of quality this may be true, but in quantity there's a vast difference in


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potential. For the souls of this world are subject to birth, death old age and disease,

whereas God is not afflicted by such things.

When atheist reject the notion of a Supreme Being or God, they are really rejecting

the concept of a Personal God. To reject the Infinite God, the Infinite Oneness, is like

a fish denying the existence of the Ocean.

Examples of such impersonal inclination to the Infinite God is called "The Way" in

Taoism, "Brahman" in modern day Hinduism

and "Dhammakaya" in Buddhism. The Personal God of Vaishnavism (Sanatan Dharm

- before Hinduism was polytheism that it is today) Judaism, Christianity and Islam is

referred to as also being the Infinite God and yet

the emphasis is on the Personal aspects of God and not the features of God.

When one embraces the concept of a Supreme Personality as an Infinite God, one

understands that there is no difference between the Personal Gods who areworshipped in different places in the world, of all races, religions, nations, and sexes.

Just as the Sun in the sky may have different names in different places according to

different cultures and languages. In America they call Sun, in Italy Sole, in India

Surya, among the Maori of New Zealand Ra, but it is the same Sun, just appearing in

different places to different peoples who are undergoing different karmas in different

longitudes and latitudes around the world. We are talking of the same thing.

Let us look at the case for iconoclasm.

It is true that if one wants a message to reach its said destination one has to follow the

authorized system of communication. Neither wishful thinking, nor any manner ofinventions, or speculation will suffice nor gain one's goal.

A simple example is that of the postal system; it's not that one can put one's mail in

any old box that stands by the side of the road and expect your mail to reach its

destination. Only the authorized box that is approved by the postal system, established

as the recognized manner of transmittance of "mail", will reach its destination or goal.

Other so-called methods, boxes by the side of the road may be categorized as; a

mistake - thinking that any old box or idol will be recognized as god - such a mistake

originates from, a lack of accurate knowledge. Such idolatry is condemned in all the

sacred scriptures of the world. Speculation; again comes from ill informed decisions

as what to do and what not to do. Often people that approach in this category are

desirous of achieving the goal, but are either misinformed as what to do, or think that

they can indeed do anything, or try anything that they like and reach the same

destination. Sometimes this is likened to one who wants to go to a valid destination

say Auckland, but who not knowing the approved, and direct route heads off in the

direction of Tauranga going towards Taupo...........! Some have suggested, the

"liberalistic free thinkers" that there is no problem with this as in time the person may
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get to Auckland in due course of time. The unfortunate fact in many cases are

however, that there are just as many chances that the person may not reach the

destination too!

Examples of idolatry, monumentation, religious symbolism,

There have been many great men of saintly character over the centuries, to which menhave been grateful, have take shelter, such guidance. The memory of such men, not

mere men, but empowered saints not only give us good role models, but leave with us

epitaphs to their teachings and realization. Consequently out of gratitude to the

"saint", who by proof in his personal practical example in life, the people consider

him worthy by erecting a monument of him (or her), and by Divine rite he/she is

established in "sainthood". By this I do not suggest that saints are made by popular

opinion, yet an exemplary pure and Godly person, who genuinely does the work of the

Lord and who does so in a selfless and humble manner is a saint though walking

amongst us. But alas it has come these days, due to a misunderstanding of what is an

idol, what is an icon and the real and personal interaction with such saints, what to

speak of the Lord through such religious symbolic representations that there is no

proper regard for the memory of such a person, and as such the birds come and pass

stool on that form, and as for God because the human mind cannot comprehend their

being a personal form other than resembling our own, which has so many faults, their

deduction is that He too is formless.

Religious symbolism is universal to all religions. But how the symbols remind us of

our personal relationship with God make symbolism either worthy (a form of deity

worship), or unworthy (a form of idolatry). For example we see in many Christian

Churches the symbol of The Virgin Mary holding her young child Jesus the Christ,

truly a worshippable form. The symbol of the lamb, or the fish reminds us of events in

the life of Jesus, and so of Him. However, we do not worship a lamb or a fish

separately as being worshippable. In the same way the symbol of the cross, His

teachings in humility, tolerance, and mercy - the cross reminds us of Him.

In the same way when we see an icon or deity of Buddha sitting in a meditative pose,

we remember Him, His teachings, what He did for mankind, and out of gratitude want

to reciprocate with an offering of loving gratitude, maybe by offering a flower, or a

candle or a lamp. The same reciprocal mood of love is imbibed with the worship of

Deities in Vaisnava or Hindu temples. Lord Krishna Himself tells us in Bhagavad Gita

(the song of God) 9:27. "If you offer Me with love and devotion a leaf a flower or

some fruit I will accept that......!"

Of course just like in Christianity or Islam there have been unauthorized forms

presented, which have caused uproar to the devout. So in Hinduism sometimes strange

forms appear and are taken by uneducated persons to be the form of God, or the


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various forms of God's administrative heads of the universe, are taken to be Him, or

that there are "many gods". So many misunderstandings are there.

The unfortunate context that has prevailed the centuries has been that of if it doesn't fit

within my particular paradigm, or angle of preaching at the moment; if it could be

seen as a political threat; if it would allow or keep those people who we rule over,doing what they have been doing; ........then such religious symbolism, Deity worship

has been branded "Pagan", "heathen", "sacrilegious" etc., etc. And another system put

into place irrespective of its motives and possible faults!!!

The Quran says: "Some men regard other beings as equivalent to God and love them

as if they were God but the believers devote all of their love to God." (2:165) "Among

His signs are the night and the day and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down and

prostrate yourselves before the sun and the moon. Instead, prostrate yourselves

humbly before the God that created them." (41:37)

dhyeya sadA savitr maNDala madhyavartI

nArAyaNaH sarasijAsana sanniviSTaH

keyUravAn makara kuNDalavAn kirITI

hArI hiraNmaya vapuH dhrta zaGkha cakraH

"One should meditate on the form of the Lord Who is the source of the Sun's rays. He

as the primary creator is seated on a lotus, with golden bracelets, crown, shark

earrings; he is golden in complexion, and holds the shankha and chakra in his hands.

He alone is the cause of the Sun's shining." (Rg Veda)

Another View Of Historians And Missionaries Work.

In times just prior to Islam the unauthorized worship was rampant, it was nothing to

see people worshipping all manner of men, beasts, and bizarre combinations of the

two. And all to be taken as "God". With most forms of "Cleansing", the baby is often

thrown out with the bath water. And this was no different in ancient times as it is

today. The "authorities" of the time knew what needed to be stopped, but in order to

do so had to stop all manner of worship of speculative forms of deities, they banned

all deity worship. Anyone found worshiping a deity of any kind was put to death.

Later as Islamic conquerors invaded such countries where deity worship pervaded as

part of everyday functional life, such as in India these "upholders of the faith", theiconoclasts, either smashed every deity without discrimination; defiled the temple that

the deity stood in; destroyed such a temple; then spreading ill-rumour, and editing

history, "created new history", or a combination of all of the above, with which to

establish their particular manner of faith as Absolute, and all others as "Infidels".

This was not particular to Islam. Christianity (in its numerous forms) did it, and are

still doing it all over the world. The zealous missionaries of the 19th century forged


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not only new frontiers, but also forged many a history book in their attempt to convert

the "pagan savages" of Africa, the Americas (South America - Hawaii etc.), India,

Australia and New Zealand. In all of these countries an abundance of wealth was

displayed to allure the "poor savages" (often funded by either the church or a wealthy

merchant who carried a particular "faith" - or a combination of the two by which such

merchants/industrialists/ or even slave traders could exploit the colonies). Just for aninstant we could look at New Zealand. The Christian missions adhere to a story that

these pagan peoples know as the Maori had no goal in life, and were just waiting for

Christendom to come to their shores. Yet if we look back over the past hundred years

at some of the things that have been done in the name of helping these indigenous

people to know Jesus; the bloodshed, the manipulations of land, the conscripting and

sending of men to war to gain their land, laws passed defining Maori as not being

eligible for various things........, unless they accepted the Bible; prejudices forced by

Churchmen; ridicule and intimidation of the Maori culture, until the people

embarrassed, gave it up just to survive in the Christian world of education and

employment. The history books too have been carefully changed, the treasured

ancestral home, and origin of these proud and cultured people almost now lost into

political oblivion. Today the Maori (and other Pacific Islanders) are forced to follow

western methods of dress, linguistic interaction, schooling, employment (or rather

lack of it - unemployment), in accordance with the changing trends and plans laid

down by colonialistic forefathers.

Although many of the people of this Maori race are trying to gain their own identity

again, many (and I mean many) appear to be relics of a broken race. Their once proud

warrior stature lost to degradation in public drinking houses, betting shops and

hanging around the street or watching T.V. at home - a broken people. There is greatconcern for the Maori youth, as so many are the instigators of crime, violence, and

gang activity - all symptoms of lack of identity. True that everything is a matter of

personal choice, to give up their former culture or not to; to engage in something

potentially harmful or not to; to allow oneself to be manipulated or not to; but we have

to be honest in recognizing how much influence vast amounts of money, troops and

educational or re-educational propaganda can have on an environment. To which we

can all thank the British Crown, and its Ministry's (the Christian Missions).

The following is an article found in the Watchtower magazine of te Jehova's

Witnesses, dated February 15th 1997., pages 25-28."Agreement Between "God's Temple" And Idols In Greece?

On this very hot summer day, the sun beats down on the glittering stones. The

extreme heat, however, does not seem to dampen the spirits and fierce determination

of a throng of devout Greek Orthodox pilgrims who head for the chapel at the top of

the hill.

You see an exhausted old woman, who journeyed from the other end of the country,


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struggling to keep her tired feet going. A little farther up, an eager man is heavily

perspiring as he anxiously tries to make his way through the jostling crowd. And a

young girl, obviously in pain and with a desperate expression on her face, crawls on

her badly bleeding knees. The goal? To reach on time, to pray before and, if possible,

to touch and kiss the icon of the celebrated 'saint'.

Scenes similar to this one are repeated all over the world at places devoted to theveneration of 'saints'. Apparently, all these pilgrims are convinced that in this way,

they are following God's way for approaching him, thus expressing their devotion and

faith."

I personally do not have a problem with asking an obviously advanced and devout

soul, either in his personal form - him standing there before me, or in his deity form,

either way, one of God's own, to help me in my progression along the same path

towards Him. This I believe to be the intrinsic difference in approaching a genuine

saint for help in one's devotional development, and going before someone like Sai

Baba, and a myriad of other modern day 'saints' and asking for material boons etc.

"The book Our Orthodox Christian Faith states: 'we commemorate [the saints], and

ascribe glory and honour to their holy personages....., and we ask their prayers before

God on our behalf and their supplications and aid in many needs of our lives...... We

recourse to the wonder-working Saints.....for our spiritual and bodily needs'. Also,

according to syndic canons of the Roman Catholic Church, 'saints' are to be invoked

as intercessors with God, and both the relics and the images of the 'saints' are to be

venerated.

The primary concern of a genuine Christian should be to worship God 'with spirit and

truth.'(John 4:24.) For this reason let us consider some facts about the way in which

the veneration of 'saints' was introduced as part of the religious practices of

Christendom. Such an examination should be very enlightening for everyone desiring

to approach God in a way acceptable to Him."

A few interesting statements are found here; It seems that some people don't think that

they need the help of devoted God conscious souls around them. I for sure do, in fact

many of us are honest enough to admit that we need all the help that we can get.

Spiritual life is sometimes described as being like one person reaching upwards to

God, while one person extends their hand offering a hand down-ward, to those less

fortunate, or less experienced or advanced in spiritual development. So not only do I

pray to the 'saints' but I pray to those devotees who are around me, that I can always

remain on the progressive path to pure God consciousness.

I find it a little disturbing, that always there seems to be some finger pointing within

the Christian camp as to who is a real or genuine Christian.


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"How 'Saints' Were Accepted.

The Christian Greek Scriptures designate as 'holy ones', or 'saints', all those early

Christians who were cleansed by the blood of Christ and who were set apart for God's

service as prospective joint heirs with Christ (Acts 9:32; Corinthians 1:1;13:13.) Men

and women prominent and lowly ones in the congregation, all were described as 'holy

ones' while living here on earth. Recognition of their being saints Scripturally wasobviously not deferred until after they had died.

After the second century C.E., though, while apostate Christianity was taking shape,

the tendency was to try to make Christianity popular, a religion that would appeal to

pagan peoples and be readily acceptable to them. These pagans worshipped a

pantheon of gods, and the new religion was strictly monotheistic. So a compromise

would be possible through the adoption of 'saints', who would take the place of the

ancient gods, demigods, and mythical heroes. Commenting on this, the book

Ekkliasiastiki Istoria (Ecclesiastical History) states: 'For those being converted from

paganism to Christianity, it was easy to recognize their abandoned heroes in the

person of the martyrs and start rendering them the honour they previously gave to the

former ones...... Very often, however, the rendering of such honours to the saints

came to be pure idolatry'.

Another reference work explains how 'saints' were introduced into Christendom: 'In

the rendering of honour to the saints of the Greek Orthodox Church, we find obvious

traces of the strong influence that pagan religion had. Qualities that were attributed to

the Olympian gods before [people] were converted to Christianity were now ascribed

to the saints..... From the early years of the new religion, we see its adherents

replacing the sun-god (Phoebus Apollo) with the Prophet Elijah, building churches on,

or next to, the ruins of ancient temples or shrines of this god, mostly on the top of hillsand mountains, at every place where the ancient Greeks honoured the light-giver

Phoebus Apollo....... They even identified the Virgin-goddess Athena with the Virgin

Mary herself. Thus, the gap that was created when the idol of Athena was torn down

was eliminated

Empowered beings:

This is the promise of the Quran: "It is our will that we show favor to those who have

been oppressed throughout history for Me, by making them leaders and the inheritors

of the earth." (28:5) "God promises those among you who believe and do good deeds

that He will make you vicegerents on earth, that He will firmly establish the religionHe has chosen for you, and that He will bestow on all the believers safety after their

fear of the enemy this, in order that you might worship Me alone and not ascribe to

Me any partners/equals/counterparts." (24:55)

God is Great, There is only one God, He has many names, He has many pure devotees

- prophets


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How A Muslim Came To Krsna

BY NARARATNA DAS

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 02:49:03 -0000

From: "vrnparker"

Subject: How A Muslim Came To Krsna

September 27, 2004 VNN8707

EDITORIAL, Sep 27 (VNN) Hare Krsna Maharajs, Prabhus & Mothers.

Please accept my humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Some of you know me from Mayapur and what we are doing in the Middle East but

for those who don't, I'll give you a brief account of our history.

Yes! All glories to Srila Prabhupada transcendental book distribution & the

surrendered souls that distribute them, why?

Well, for 24 years I lived with my strict Muslim family as a descent Muslim in

London. Then in 1994, after watching most of my friends and 2 of my brothers

become swallowed and trapped by Regular material life (get married, get a house, goto work every day, come home, watch TV, sleep and then get up to do the same

mundane things) I came to my senses and thought this cant be all there is to live?

There must be something more although I was quite a happy positive 24 year old

adult, I didnt feel satisfied. Something was always missing but what, I asked!! My

brothers & I were all brought up as strict Muslims following the principles of Islam.

My father would force us study the Koran, we would get the belt if we didnt study

every night and memorize our verses. As life went by, I started asking questions that

were not answered, such as who is Allah, what does He look like, what does he do?

and What happens to people who die now, where does the soul go? And if God were

fair, why are souls put into different circumstances at the time of birth which gave riseto a soul living and suffering in Africa while another soul, born to a rich American

family lives in complete comfort and safety? I was told I shouldn't ask such questions

and to not pursue the answers!

Unfortunately, this is how most Muslims are brought up, here are the rules to follow

and some little information but don't ask questions that can't be answered! This lack of


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freedom and encouragement to enquire and question the teachings is what has led to

the kind of fanatic Muslims we have today.

(As His Divine grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada has stated, Philosophy

without Religion is mental speculation and Religion without the philosophy becomes

fanaticism.) Not that Islam doesn't have philosophy because it does but the way it isbeing used and presented today is the problem. Fortunately for me, Krsna arranged

that I wasnt completely happy. By the time I was 24, Krsna gave me the courage,

faith and push to stop everything and leave London on a planned two year trip that

would take me in a caravan from London through Europe, Eastern Europe, Turkey,

Iran, Pakistan and finally to India. My inspiration was this was the only way I could

satisfy myself, to learn as much as I could from other cultures and become a better

person. That final leaving day came, as I surrounded by heartbroken weeping family

members and friends, one of my brothers gave me a book. He said that a friend had

given it to him as a birthday gift but had been too busy to read it or even look at it. I

put it in my caravan and slowly drove away. I can honestly say that this was the most

painful time of my life, I was 24 yet I cried as I drove to the coast for the next 3 hours

and my so called heart was in London for the next 2 months! It was so hard to leave

things behind (even for just two years) and focus knowing that ` wouldn't see them for

a long two years. Inspite of this, I held on to the thought that if I really wanted to

become a better person, there was no other way! Six months later I found myself in

Turkey getting back into studying the Koran because unlike the Muslims I had known

in London who taught one thing but practiced something different, the Turks seemed

to apply the teachings of the Koran into their daily life a bit more. But Again as I read

and asked questions I came up against the same frustrations, a lack of satisfyinginformation for my queries. I put the Koran back onto my book shelf and feeling

dejected I went through my book shelf hoping there was something to enthuse my

soul. Suddenly a book jumped out at me. I didn't recognize it, it was the book that my

brother had given to me as I was leaving London. It had a beautiful picture of a blue

celestial person with 4 arms and the name of the book was just the title to excite me

THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALISATION, wonderful title! I couldn't put it down

until I had finished it all. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said I owed a magnificent day to

the Bhagavad Gita. It was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but

large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and

climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us now.His divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada answered all my questions

and gave me alot more in such clear and easy to understand English, just perfect! For

me a big hole in my life had just been filled and I felt little strange, pain from having

my false ego exposed and cut by the sword of knowledge but happy to finally get the

truth!


16/23

Now at least philosophically I knew we were all souls and there was a Supreme soul

Known as Krishna or Vishnu and we all had an eternal relationship With Him in the

spiritual world as well as here in this world of temporary life. In fact right there in

Turkey I started to apply this. I was alone in my caravan and my friend, his wife and

son were in another caravan. I would wake up early to do some exercises, feeling

alone I would imagine youthful Krsna jogging along side me and racing with him. Iwould go to disco clubs and as the song would sing about a boy's love for a girl or

girl's love for a boy; I simply converted so that the song was about Krsna. Its was

great! My world was slowing changing so Krsna became the center.

Unlike Muslims (and preachers of other religions) who would tell me that only

Muslims would go to heaven, the rest would go to hell, Prabhupada said Doesn't

matter what bona fide process of religion you chose to follow, if that process increases

your love and attraction to God (krsna), the supreme personality of Godhead, then that

process was perfect.

This simple but pure truth was so pleasing to hear, I would hate it and reject whatever

when people said this is the only way. Of course, I immediately understood and

accepted that this Vedic knowledge gave me what the Koran was giving me and the

bonus of alot more confidential (higher) information about God and as Prabhupada

again so innocently says how could you or anyone love God if you know nothing or

very little about Him, so more detail information was essential and natural just like in

any other relationship.

I looked for a Krsna conscious temple or some kind of center but nothing existed here

in Turkey. I was hungry for more information and practical tips on how to perform

bhakti-yoga in daily life. Just before I left Turkey the same brother who had given me

the book visited me here and all I could talk about was this Vedic information and

how it had completely changed my outlook on life, from a selfish materialist to a

thoughtful understanding human willing to live with, work with and love all species of

life as members of my own family. My brother appreciated the concept but said that

unless everyone changed at the same time it wouldn't work. So why bother! I simply

answered that the change must start with the man in the mirror! To my great surprise

two weeks later I received a parcel from him. Eventhough he thought Vedic teachings

were somewhat different from Islam still he had gone to the temple, bought and sent

me the Jewel of all Eastern philosophy The Bhagavad Gita. I still don't think he

knows how much I appreciated this because I knew he didn't like the Bhagavad Gita

(thinking it was some Indian book for Indians) but he sent it because I liked it. I don't

know if you can understand, but this was a Muslim buying something for another

Muslim that (in his eyes) could possibly lead him (me) astray.

I was eating the Bhagavad Gita night and day.


17/23

From the transcendental pages of the Bhagavad Gita I learnt about my real identity,

nature around me, why we all exist, how we are interconnected and of course how to

attain full freedom by self realization. And for me this was the answer to all our

worldly problems, this was the information that everyone needed to hear and know to

gain real internal peace and happiness. I knew with this information the world could

really be a happy place with everyone living and working in harmony. Later on I

would accept this as my duty to humanity.

As a result of this I became a strict vegetarian (actually only eating food that was first

offered to Krsna), I started chanting the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra and following the

four regulative principles given to bring one to the human platform of life.

1, No intoxications

2, No eating Meat (include chicken, fish and eggs)

3, No sex outside of marriage

4, No gambling

I was so happy and stress free. Really! I was singing the Hare Krsna mantra in the

rain, at work, everywhere! People were asking me what is this song and how come I

was so happy and full of positivity so I would explain it to them and some would try

to sing the mantra with me.

On observing Turkish people and how nice and openly friendly they were to everyone

I remember saying there should definitely be a Krsna conscious temple or some kind

of center here, that would be great!! Yes, just a dream? (a dream that Krsna would

later manifest? Lets see?) There was no such center in Turkey, neither was anythinglisted in Iran or Pakistan had to patiently drive and wait until I got to India to meet

devotees who practiced this bhakti-yoga way of life.

I drove to Vrindavan and upon hearing the hare Krsna Maha mantra being sung so

sweetly at night and seeing all the devotees sparkle and dance in ecstasy, I knew this

was the life for me. and joined the Hare Krsna Movement there but after 4 days I was

advised that Mayapur would suit me better as it was the center of learning. The night I

arrived in Mayapur I was introduced to Jananivas and pankajangri prabhus because

they came from London too. The next morning I took a bath in mother ganga but on

trying to get into my van ` suddenly realized that ` had swum with the keys to the vanin my pocket and now they had gone! Devotees joked that Caitanya Mahaprabhu

didnt want to leave me with a way to escape so of course I joined the bhakta training

program for 3 months and on completion I then immediately joined the interfaith

communications program. This project attracted me because I had read and seen so

many people and organizations try to use knowledge and religion to create distinctions

for the purpose of segregating people but these devotees had the aim of bringing all


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people and their religions together under one flag through the spiritual scientific

analysis and understanding of Science, Philosophy and Religion.

After being there for one year receiving further education and learning how to

practically apply this philosophy in my own life, I was happily shocked and amazed

when the head of this dept said ok, you are ready to start helping others and we thinkyou should go and start sharing this knowledge with others. And which place did they

think I should go to? Yes! Turkey.

This was like sweet music to my ears. Although everyone that I spoke to told me I

should NOT go because I was relatively new and Muslim people specially in Muslim

countries were heavy, no place for a new devotee! Fortunately, Krsna gave me such a

clear feeling that this was what he wanted me to do as my service to Him. It was very

clear to me that He had prepared me for this so I didn't feel scared at all. I knew He

was behind me and in front of me.

So, after praying intensely to all the presiding deities in Mayapur,SRI SRI RADHA-

MADHAVA / LORD NARASIMHADEVA and THE PANCA TATTVA and asking

all the devotees to give us their blessings, we set of for Turkey in 1996.

The plan was to slowly expose ourselves to this new environment in stages.

We would go for 3 months first then return for 6 months then go for 6 months and

return for 6 months. Our stay in Mayapur didn't lose its focus on our objectives. We

continued to study, research and compile books aimed at bringing people of all

religions together. We wrote five books specially connected with Krsna Consciounessand Islam.

1,SRILA PRABHUPADA ON ISLAM( everything His Divine Grace A.C.

Prabhupada ever said about Islam)

2,BHAKTI YOGA and ISLAM (questions and answers encountered in the field by

Srila Prabhupada & devotees sharing Krsna Consciousness with Muslims in Muslim

countries)

3,THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF AL-QURAN. (The HOLY QURAN as explainedby CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU)

4,COMPARATIVE COSMOLOGY. (a comparative study of Modern science, the

QURAN, the BIBLE and VEDIC KNOWLEDGE) 5,ENLIGHTENMENT OF

CHAND KAZI. (The teachings of Caitanya Mahaprabhu to the Muslim leader Chand

Kazi)


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6,KRSNA CONSCIOUNESS & ISLAM. A newly produced 20 hour double CD

presentation about KC & Islam.

The books are designed to help Krishna-conscious devotees present a Vedic viewpoint

to members of the Muslim community in a non-argumentative way, as well as to

encourage Muslim readers to deepen and strengthen their efforts at God-realization.Our goal is to build a strong foundation of mutual understanding so that everyone's

love and devotion towards the Supreme Lord whom we call Krsna and whom

Muslims call Allah -- can be ignited and cultivated favorably.

So, you can see we were very serious and committed to this goal as a life time

mission.

The first 3 month period in Turkey was both wonderful and very difficult. Wounderful

because we were experiencing a closeness to Krsna that I hadn't experienced even in

Mayapur. Our prayers were intense especially to Lord Nrishimhadeva because wewere alone in a Muslim country, no temple, no devotees, no kirtans, no Indian

community and no support! Just the two of us! We could clearly feel and see how

Krsna was behind everything that happened to us. For example, we had practically no

money and we expected to be sleeping on the beach but Krsna arranged that someone

offered us their cafe floor to sleep on after it closed at 10pm.

Then someone offered us a half complete flat to stay in, no windows or doors but

there was water and a roof which was better that nothing! Then for 3 weeks I suffered

from Malaria, I really thought I might leave my body. During the day I would ok and

would go around looking for a job then come 4pm the hellish region would descendon me and all night I would struggle with a burning body, the amazing thing was each

time I would come back to an awaken state ` found myself chanting hare Krsna so I

really wasnt scared of dying but luckily again Krsna was there to finally arrange

some free treatment, they took care of me in hospital for 2 weeks something that

would have cost us thousands we got for free. Slowly we got to know the people but

we couldn't really find anyone who was interested in spirituality. Language was one

big barrier we would have to overcome and the area we were in was made up of

mostly conservative Muslims. Nevertheless, we had expected things to be like this so

had planned that the first stage of our service would be to simply get to know the

environment and the people.

The second and third time around we planned to stay for 6 and then 9 months, each

time continuing where we had previously left off.

As we moved around and stayed in different areas we got to know the people more

and more and how things worked here, we got jobs that allowed us to really mingle


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and become like normal people (from this angle we hoped we could better understand

the peoples problems and how best to help them. This gave us the time and

experience to really see and feel how people reacted to our exsistence and our

presentations. We came to realize a very important point, these Muslim people were

very nice helpful and welcoming but if you push the wrong buttons and touch some

sensitive areas in the wrong way, specially topics connected with their religioussentiments then your so called friendly friend could change into an erupting volcano

in seconds. So be careful out there when you are dealing with Muslims dont judge the

book by the cover. Actually, any areas, make a commitment, be patient & get to know

your field before you farm it.

Prabhupada often compares us to doctors and what we have to give as the all

liberating medicine so a good doctor studies his patient first then prescribes the right

medicine in the right dose.

I always remember being told in Mayapur by our leader that for this service we had togive up the conditioning and identity that we were preachers and just see ourselves as

normal people living among others because Muslims are really sensitive about people

trying to change them and they can sense it immediately. People should see and really

feel that we are simply living our personal life styles and whoever is interested in

what we do, we are happy to share this spiritual culture with them. What they do with

that info afterwards must be left to them. As Krsna says in the Bhagavad Gita ( 18.63

) to Arjuna

Thus I have explained to you Knowledge still more confidential. Deliberate on this

fully, and then do what you wish to do.

After our 9 month stay, we had to make an huge decision. In Mayapur our same team

ran two departments: The interfaith communications dept and the Bhaktivedanta

Research Institute which had produced 12 books for the education of both devotees in

The Hare Krsna Movement and the general mass of people. Unfortunately the time

had come where we could no longer be in two places for parts of the year, India and

Turkey.

Turkey needed us to be there all year round. We knew that for this project to develop

nicely, we had to be there full time and there was no one else who would do it so in1999 we left our merciful base Mayapur and headed for full time Turkey.

This moved us into stage two of our plan. We found and started to rent a flat of our

own where we soon held Sunday programs and the reading of The transcendental, all

liberating, Bhagavad Gita.


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We started to teach people about The Vedic culture way of life, mantra meditation,

vegetarian cooking and playing traditional devotional music. All aimed at the

liberation of the soul, giving him entrance into the spiritual realm. We are

endeavoring to continue to do that same.

One of the main problems we have faced is the small numbers of people that havecome to our program when you compare that to the 19 million people that live in this

city. We have no choice other than to slowly get to know people and see if they

themselves are interested in what we have to offer, slowly cultivating that interest and

then if it's safe (as in they won't call the police upon seeing or hearing something they

don't like in our flat) we extended an invitation to our flat to learn more about the

benefits of meditation and self realization. Fortunately, we have never had any

complaints from anyone; even our neighbours don't mind the singing on Sunday. We

have always focused on developing good friendly relationships with everyone. After

all we want to give this opportunity to everyone. Once, we even had concerned

parents of one boy come to see what their son was getting into, but when they came

they really liked what they heard, the teachings of Bhagavad Gita ( we aren't body, we

are soul, as such we are all related as brothers and sisters with one Supreme father, so

try to give up using and abusing each other and try to help each other come to the

point of real understanding, real peace, real love, only to be experienced through full

self realization which this Vedic knowledge is teaching).

You can imagine how much time & energy this takes with each person, plus the fact

that we have to work at the same time in order to be able to maintain everything

financially, not easy!

Since personally coming here in 1996, we have spent the first 3 years part time

moving around this city and then another 3 years based in one flat (temple) and then

last year we moved to the flat we are in now. During this time we have got to know

the people, the country, the culture, the police and how they all work and interact

better, we now feel confident that more people are interested and will come to learn

more about Vedic culture, yoga, mantra meditation, vegetarianism and eventually

bhakti yoga if given the chance. We have always faced two problems, TIME &

MONEY.

To generate money to finance things we have to sacrifice time doing jobs and

spending time with people that are not interested in spiritual life.

Remember, this isnt England where you can get donations from the locals to help,

these are Muslim people in a Muslim country. This means only a small amount of out

potential time is really spent with people personally helping them. At present I pay

600 dollars per month for our flat and definitely we will be here for a long time. From


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1998 I've helped support other Iskcon projects as well as this project by selling my

small flat in London. Now I dont have any bulk money left. I just depend on what I

earn monthly to run everything here. As taught by Srila Prabhupada, we are always

trying to be self dependent and not hassle others but in this case, I really do

desperately need your assistance. We now have a strong desire to buy the flat we are

currently in or one similar in a similar location.

I really dislike it when it seems like we are wasting Krsna's money thus I feel a little

frustrated because I dont have the money to buy this place but are giving 600 dollars

a month to the bin! Please help me stop wasting Krsna's money and purchase our own

place for two big reasons.

1, As renters we can be kicked out anytime if someone doesnt like us for any reason

which is a daily possibility and will become more likely if more people come. In real

life here, a renter has no rights. On the other hand we will have full rights to do what

we want as long as it is within the confines of our flat if we own it. Of course we willnot be disrespectful or thoughtless. As Prabhupada says, we must always be respectful

and courteous even to our enemies, so if we want to invest our time and energy here to

develop a spiritual oasis where people can come and revitalize themselves, owning

our own property is a must.

2, Of course we will save alot of money. Instead of paying 7,200 dollars per year for

the next 20 years and get nothing, we can pay a similar amount and within 20 years

we will have our own building. No more rent!! Radha-istanbulisvara will have their

own place and devotees wont have to worry about paying the rent. They can fully

focus on the real work, rescuing souls from the clutches of this temporary material

energy and setting them free.

So many of the younger generation are interested in learning about spiritual life but

are afraid to come and ask because of social pressure from the older more

conservative Muslims but finally under pressure from the youth of today and the

European union spiritual or religious organizations will be given the rights and

freedom to practice. This will take EVEN MORE TIME to actually manifest in

peoples attitudes but the green light is definitely coming in the future.

So when that clear green light comes this center will be ready to transform into a fullyfledged legal Hare Krsna center operating directly as Srila Prabhupada wanted, giving

everyone the chance to experience the alternative to the struggle and stress of the

imbalanced material life that is currently on offer to the frustrated soul. Openly, freely

and directly educating people in all aspects of spiritual life and how to directly apply

such knowledge in daily life so that each and every individual can become a happy

person and from a happier person we get a happier family, a happier city, a happier


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nation and eventually a happier world for everyone. Please feel our sincerity, see our

commitment and understand Krishna is pleased by any service you do but this service

really does have a special place in Prabhupada's heart. As he himself said those who

preach to Muslims, I take the dust from their lotus feet. You can just read this as any

other pamphlet, walk away and nothing will happen but I'm personally begging you

not to do that. Please decide right now what you can do to help and contact us at

[email protected] or [email protected]

Here are some of my suggestions (we need 120 thousand dollars): 1, we only need

120 devotees (individually or collectively) to donate 1,000 dollars each.

2, Devotees can loan us 1,000 dollars each and specify how long they could give it to

us for so those who need it back the quickest will be paid back first.

I am personally willing and able to pay back 600 dollars per month to anyone that

loans us any money or arranges a loan for us.

3, Someone can secure us a 120 thousand dollar (mortgage) loan for which the place

can be registered in their name as security and I will pay back 600 dollars per month

(if we dont buy a place I will have to pay 600 dollars per month as rent anyway so I

can do this)

Please empower us to give them such a nice revitalizing experience that they will be

inspired to look deeper into the subject of real health, the needs of the soul. As Srila

Prabhupada has said we are concerned to have conviction as opposed to conversion.

We are trying to inspire devotees to take advantage of the most auspicious day on

which to give your donation on Radhastami, fasting till noon.

I would be very encouraged and happy to hear your comments on this

or any suggestions you may have to help us achieve this goal that is

very pleasing to Srila Prabhupada and the whole Parampara.

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Islam and Krishna Consciousness

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