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resistance against the US occupation in Afghanistan, and Iraqi resistance fighters, onpublic forums.

Once considered a "good friend" of the Americans, he is blamed by Indians andAmericans for starting the Kashmir militant struggle in 1989, and for flaming theKhalistan movement in mid-1980s. But it was the abandoning of Afghan mujahideen

by the US as soon as the Russians left, that really turned Gul against the Americanswho had by then become the sole super power. Till date a section of Pakistaniopinion blames Gul and people of his ilk for going too far in weakening the USSR andcreating a unipolar world by default.

Retired 20 years ago as head of ISI, he still makes headlines in Pakistani andinternational media. He was recently told by Pakistani officials that the US has puthis name on the terror watchlist for being a strategist for the Taliban and Lashkr-e-Taiba, but Gul says he has been threatened to be placed on the sanctions list.President Asif Ali Zardari recently termed him as 'political ideologue of terror", butformer spy chief takes it lightly, saying he instead sees himself as a "politicalideologue of jihad".

The general has a history of bitter relations with the Pakistan People's Party (PPP)under the slain Benazir Bhutto during his ISI days largely because the deceasedformer prime minister believed he was the architect of Islami Jamhoori Ittehad (IJI)that gave stiff political resistance to Bhutto in the 1988 elections and eventuallydefeated her in the 1990 elections when former prime minister and her then archrival Nawaz Sharif became prime minister with the full backing of the militaryestablishment. "What to talk of Zardari sahib...if he had said that I am an ideologueof jihad, then this would have been valid. But when he says that I am an ideologueof terror, then he does not understand this. So one can only forgive him for this."

Progressive and secular Pakistanis may hate his political jihadi thoughts, but asizeable number of right wing elements dominant in the middle and lower middleclasses of Pakistani society, praises Gul, and his predecessors like General AkhtarAbdur Rehman, for their services.

Analysts believe events like Mumbai and its aftermath reinforces those people whothink Pakistan and India cannot co-exist peacefully. "I am a political idealogue ofjihad, but that is an injunction from the Quran, it is not my dogma. And it isabsolutely in line with Article 3 of the UN Charter that oppressed and enslavednations have a right to rise in arms," he says.

"I support the Afghan jihad in this sense and every Muslim should support it. Wedon't want to conquer anyone, this is purely self defence. Every human being hasbeen given the right of self-defence by Allah and the UN charter," he says.

The general charges that the Zardari-led government has taken over power on thebasis of a deal. "Those who think that this PPP government has come on the basis ofelections, are simply unaware. "No... it came as a deal which had earlier taken place.and so these people had been handed down an agenda. They are moving inaccordance to that agenda.

"Zardari has come through a deal, Nawaz Sharif at least didn't strike a deal - itseems so. Americans are still angry with him [Sharif] for conducting the nuclear tests

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in 1998. They will keep him on ice and when they will think Zardari is failing, theywill give Nawaz a chance."

Surprisingly, Gul was named in a letter written on October 16, 2008 and sent to thethen President Pervez Musharraf by the slain former premier Benazir Bhutto as shefeared General Gul was also part of a conspiracy to assassinate her. Two days later,

on October 18, on the eve of her return Bhutto narrowly survived a huge bombattack which killed dozens from amongst thousands of supporters that had gatheredin Karachi to greet her return after 10 years in self-imposed exile.

ISI and I ndian Muslims

General Gul says it has been a cardinal principle in ISI and Army not to do anythingin India that will flare the passions of militant Hindus against the Muslims. "I left theISI 20 years ago but I think the principal still stand good. They Indian Muslims arealready downtrodden, miserable, living a wretched life. Every now and then, hardlineHindus fall upon them, kill them, massacre them, rape their women, throw theirchildren into fire. We are very sensitive about the Indian Muslims."

Asked what should be Pakistan's best course of action in the aftermath of Mumbaiattacks, he said: "We have to clean the house from inside, but that does not meanwe crackdown only on Lashkar-e-Taiba and call them non-state actors. There arenon-state actors like the American CIA operating freely in Pakistan. I don't knowwhat game they are playing. For all you know, they may have used their clout here,trained some people and launched them in Mumbai. The Special Service group,Spider group, India's RAW [Research and Analysis Wing], Israeli Mossad - everybodyis playing their games here. We also have Blackwater here to train us. You think theywill only train our people or train some people who act on their behalf too. Who hasgained from Mumbai aftermath?"

ISI and civilian head

Commenting on a recent report of a US working group set up by President electBarak Obama which suggests that ISI should have a civilian head, Gul said whenthey removed him in 1989 as head of the spy agency and installed Lt Gen Kalu(Shamsur Rehman), they had the same agenda then - ISI had to be clipped, ISI hadto be cut to size. "This is because ISI protects Pakistan, protects our nuclearprogramme, protects many things. Armies fight once in a while but ISI is constantlyat work, it is part of our defensive system and when you scuttle the ISI, weaken it,or you confuse its state of mind, then actually your defence system is weakened andthat's what they [US and west] are aiming at.

"They might say one day that head of the Army should be a civilian because this

army is a rogue Army so a civilian should head it. This is a strange demandregarding ISI and I think we are paying a huge price of our friendship with America."

Great regional game

American neoconservatives, Gul says, believe that India has to be made the bulwarkin this area to provide protection to the state of Israel. "That is the role that theyhave in their mind for India," he says. Pakistan, he acknowledges, cannot match

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India in conventional weapons. "That why the Americans want our unconventionalpower to cease to exit.

"That's why India, for the first time, has broken its neutrality and inducted 6000troops into Afghanistan. But America wants more Indian commitment in Afghanistan.This agenda has been set by the neocons and Zionists, that Pakistan must not

possess nuclear capability".

Obama and Afghanistan

Gul thinks the US is undergoing an economic meltdown.

"In my assessment, by late 2009, Obama would realise that either he has toabandon his agenda of change or find a way out for disengagement from externalcommitments [military operations]. Not entirely but partially."