Interview JW

8/14/2019 Interview JW

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Jonathan Wilson claims that a movement was started long ago andthat in our attempts to be involved we have in turn manipulated andsmothered it. You have likely heard of this movement, you may evenclaim to be a part of it. He seems to have been given a divine plan onhow to take us back to the basics.

Why are you here?You wanted to interview me, right?

Yes. What I meant was what do you feel you are supposed to

do with your life?I am supposed to live, that is why my life was given to me. Trulyliving, in my opinion (because you asked), for everyone, consists ofloving God and loving others from a relational dynamic.

And how do you plan on doing that?

I have found that the most fulfilling way to live my life is with anattitude of servanthood, there have been great examples of this inhistory, one of them, and in my opinion the best, being Jesus ofNazareth. So ultimately, I am going to live my life by helping others dothe same.

Who are you speaking of when you speak of Him?Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus the Messiah, Yeshuah. His name issynonymous with love.

Why do you follow Jesus of Nazareth?Absolutely everyone everywhere should be able to appreciate theprinciples offered in scripture. It would be ignorant to say thatconcepts like loving your neighbor, honoring your mother and father,not killing and turning the other cheek would not make this world abetter place, both for the individual and for all of creation corporately.However, I do know that we are presupposing that which is good. I amconfident, because it happened to me, that if individuals admit to thistruth and study scripture, study truth in all places, in an effort todefine those principles they will meet a real man, a man that is alive

and a man that desires to revolutionize their life. That man is Jesus,and God he is great. Its a weird thing, I dont know how it works, butsomehow I still experience him even though he lived so long ago.

Now there has been talk of a movement, or a church, or asystem, or something in which you plan to deploy. What

exactly is it?


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I have trouble defining it also. But that is a good thing. I feel thecloser we get to the way things are supposed to be the less we willhave to title things. I dont believe in titles and the last thing we needis another denomination or another traditional church. There areenough of those. It is not about us, or our organization, it is about

Him. Movement is a good word, if you like it, and it started long ago.

What do you mean by it started long ago?In a sense this movement has been going on sense Christ came. Weseem though to have smothered it with our defiant doctrine,threatening theology, and boastful buildings. We want to create amanagement system for this movement while promoting it as well. Wewant to get back to the basics, the raw, uncharted and vivid idea ofGods kingdom coming to earth and not bog it down with our ego.

So what is the name of this Church?

Again, its not about the name of the church. It is about the man wefollow because of the fulfillment we find while walking with Him. Weare part of a movement, this movement is going to be known by asymbol, not a traditional title. The symbol is currently beingconceptualized.

Isnt this confusing?Those that are looking will find us. And it seems to be that everyone islooking, there seems to be a longing in even the most stubborn ofhearts for something more, but more without the baggage. We are

trying to do church as raw and rugged as possible, because thats howit started and thats how we feel it should stay.

So is anything wrong with a building or tradition?I love architecture and appreciate it greatly. The last thing we want todo is come off as being anti-church or anti-tradition. Yet at the sametime I feel that a church can operate more freely and just asadequately without a building. Also, tradition can be very beautiful andhumbling and personally creates a sense of awe that I truly care for,yet often times tradition interferes with god working and church

becomes more about politics than it does about the man we follow. Alltraditions had to start somewhere, we feel that this one started longbefore buildings and hymnals.

What are the benefits?Instead of buying new steeples and changing the carpet we canpurchase more homes for those that have none and some food forthose that are starving. The benefits seem obvious.


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What is a church supposed to offer?

I get this from the great commission. But basically we are supposed toreach, grow, connect, discover, and honor. In other words discipleship,fellowship, worship, ministry, evangelism. We can do all of this with

the vision described and without a building, and we will.

Are you the pastor?No, no. I am a visionary, to me visionary is one step beyond fed-up.All of us seem to be a bit fed-up due to the fact we complainconstantly. Complaining without action is terrible in my opinion. I aman activist, I promote Yahweh.

What if someone asked you who your pastor was?

Id tell them who my rabbi is, I follow Him, not a pastor. His name isJesus of Nazareth.

Your narrative theology seems rather vague, what does this

mean?

It means the obvious, I am not God. I am tired of people worryingabout whether I find every word of the 66 books of the Bible to betrue. Half the people that say they believe that have not read everyword of the thing. Im tired of people asking me whether or not thefirst day was a literal 24 hours. Sure its interesting, but honestly Idont know. I cant know, and if the person asking the question washumble enough to get off of his more pious then thou high horse hed

have to admit it to. These technicalities divide the church. It shouldnot matter to you what I believe, that is between myself and God.What should matter to you is what you believe.

What else divides the church?

Style. Some people like the traditional hymns, some like red carpetand others hardwood floor. Style divides the church.

How does this solve that?

If you want to worship, go worship. If you want to get a group

together outside in the backyard and hum then do it. Do not go build anew building, write a new set of systematic doctrines and then praythat people leave other churchs to show up.

You are aware that you have no degree in theology, correct?I find it hard to believe that the Savior of the world would write a bookand expect us as individuals to pay $80,000 dollars to a seminary tolearn how to read it.


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Do you not like the idea of Bible Colleges?

I like this whole Jesus and His Kingdom idea because it is beautiful.Also, there is a lot to learn about the scriptures. Great minds havegone before us and many of whom know much more than I could ever

beg to on the subject of theology. Knowledge is great but I do notwant us to become dependent on a degree when we follow a limitlessGod. The thought of this frightens me.

Well on a lighter note then, you are the leader, correct?No, God is the leader. I kind of head up the management team for themovement. These people are not following me, they are following thesame man I am, Jesus. He is the leader, we are all merely followersand we are uniting in our leaders, our Gods, name.

Do you not teach?

It is not my job to interpret scripture for anyone, it is their job tointerpret it for themselves. Hell, Im not even sure Id admit to theperfection of scripture. All truth however, is Gods truth it could befound in that book, in fact it seems like a lot of it is. I feel that it is myjob to encourage individuals and maybe guide them in interpreting itfor themselves by asking questions. We are going to run campaignsthat promote certain studies, thoughts, or questions so that we canhelp guide the covenant members of the movement in their personalinterpretation of scripture. Guidance is good.

Why will this work?I find this question funny and a lot ask it. A lot of people refer tosomething working in numbers. It is not about numbers but ratherabout action. Success is not determined by man but merely by God. Itis not my concern whether it works or not, my concern is obedience. Ifeel this is what I am supposed to do.

So if someone was to ask you where you go to church, what

would your answer be?

Where do I go to church? I go to church everywhere. This earth is my

sanctuary and my service times are constant. My tithe goes straight tothe diseased and broken. Not to an additional building for those thatalready have homes. Instead of asking me where I go to church, askme what is the church? And my response then to your question will beme and you.

Tithe, is that how you plan to fuel this management system?


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We want it to be very clear that all of the tithe given goes directly tothe place it should. It goes to those that have nothing, because thereare too many of them. Operations costs are something that we aretrying to work on now.

There are ideas of a store being put into place consisting of items thatthe movement seems to be confirming as a good representation oftruth. Things that we agree with and live in reaction to, things thatmotivate us and help us grow. These profits would go directly to theoperations funds.

Until that time, or until we think of something better, we will have torely on Yahweh (which is a pretty solid backbone) and those thatbelieve in the vision.

Do you expect others to join local churchs in addition to their

involvement of this community or movement?

I expect people to do what they want. I expect great things frompeople but for me to say that covenant members cannot be a part of alocal community would be arrogant and chauvinistic. It is my prayerthat people may find this global communal movement entirely fulfillingso that they do not have to look anywhere else.

Do you expect other preexisting churchs to catch on and cometoo?This whole vision seems way to beautiful to expect anything else.

Instead of them recreating what we are doing, we would like for themto join us and we are working on ways for them to do that now.

How do you expect this movement to grow?Im a lover of marketing and branding. But I want to be very cautiousin this area. Church and marketing in the same sentence can besketchy. As soon as we draw this line and find our boundaries we willstart devising a plan. Otherwise, we were built for community, built forrelationship and that is how we will grow. One person at a time, justlike Jesus did it.

How does one attain salvation?

Good question, I am so glad that I am not the one who has to decide.Salvation is not a sales pitch. Very rarely (if ever), have I been talkedinto something to the point that I am passionate about it. Instead Ifeel that one must find this Salvation, this Savior for themselves.


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Are you saying that there are multiple saviors? Multiple ways to

get to heaven?

Not at all. That is another point where people assume that anindividuals belief could somehow alter the truth. Again, thismovement is not about following me. It is about following Him. A lot of

people call him Jesus, some Yeshuah, its not really his name thatmatters but his personhood even more so, his supposed divinity. Itis not my job to say how individuals attain salvation or which way isadequate or not. That is Gods job, and I am happy about that.

What do you believe?I dont like that word. I barely know what it means.

So what do you refer to it as?

I live in reaction to certain thoughts, usually the thoughts that fulfillmy inner self the most. Those thoughts are Yahweh sending his sonYeshuah so that I may live the way he meant for me to. I love him andI love you because you also are part of his creation and my brother.

What does the movement live in reaction to then?In order to unite you must unite under something. This something isvery different than everything. We offer a beautiful narrative theologythat covenant members acknowledge if they want to join us. It coverswhat we feel are essential and beautiful and blatant.

Are you saying that this is the truth?

It is not my job to define what is true or not. It is my job to give it mybest try and this movement is made up of admittedly fallen peoplewho are trying, trying their best to understand this mystery calledtruth. I find that this narrative theology covers the matters that I findvital to a fulfillment, if others happen to agree they are welcome tocome along and change the world too.

Ive also heard that this movement is managed by young

people. Is this true?

Dont doubt us.

This seems revolutionary?

Thank God, we need one. Jesus brought something revolutionary, intime we have messed with it ourselves. Smothered it, as I like to say,in attempt to make it better or more organized. In the beginning itwas volatile and wild. I think this whole idea is pretty raw and rugged,much like what He intended.


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