Cardiff Post Group 2

THE QUALITATIVE ELECTION STUDY OF BRITAIN 2015

Cardiff Post-election Focus Group 2conducted May 16th 2015

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset

Version 1.0

Date of release: 22 June 2016

Principal InvestigatorDr. Edzia Carvalho, University of Dundee

International Co-InvestigatorDr. Kristi Winters, GESIS, Cologne

Research AssistantMarcel Gehrke, GESIS, Cologne

Funded by British Academy and Leverhulme Trust Small Grant SG142740

and supported by Carnegie Corporation of New York, GESIS-Leibniz Institute (Cologne) and University of Dundee

QESB Contacts

qualesb@gmail.com e.carvalho@dundee.ac.uk kristi.winters@gesis.org

www.qesb.info

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‘QESB’qualesb2015 @qualesb

Cardiff Post Group 2

READ ME

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset Version 1.0

On copyright and attribution

Copyright of this transcript belongs to Dr. Edzia Carvalho and Dr. Kristi Winters. Individuals may re-use this document/publication free of charge in any format for research, private study or internal circulation within an organisation. You must re-use it accurately and not present it in a misleading context. You must acknowledge the author, the QES Britain project title, and the source document/publication.

Recommended citation: Carvalho, E. and K. Winters. 2015. 'The Qualitative Election Study of Britain 2015 Dataset', version 1.0. Funded by British Academy and Leverhulme Small Grant SG142740 and supported by GESIS, Carnegie Corporation, and University of Dundee. Available at: http://wintersresearch.wordpress.com

On the transcription

All participants’ names have been changed and any direct or indirect identifiers removed to protect their anonymity

The transcripts in Version 1.0 do not have enhanced data recovery including non-verbal communication. It includes the basic transcription of words said by participants. The participants have been identified through attribution by the moderator or other participants and by an initial attribution by the investigators. Subsequent versions of the dataset will verify attribution of participants by video identification.

The transcripts in this version also do not include extensive instructions given to participants at the beginning of the groups, introductions by participants, and exchanges between participants and moderators during exercises.

Initial Transcription by: Just Write Secretarial Services, Belfast, Northern Ireland. Contact: m.mckillen@btopenworld.com

Reporting conventions used

We have used ** to indicate words, phrases or sentences which we could not hear.

Italic font indicates we have taken a guess at a word/name etc.

Words in parentheses {} indicate physical gestures or what can be heard on the tape but cannot be clearly articulated into specific words.

Removal of direct and indirect identifiers are set off with + word +

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Cardiff Post Group 2

Location: University of Cardiff, Cardiff

Moderator : Dr. Kristi Winters

Moderator : Dr. Edzia Carvalho

Participants:

2015 Alias Sex

Special Category

Age group Supporter Party Strength Pre Group Post Group Constituency 2015 vote preference

Erica F N 26-33 Y Labour 3 Cardiff 1 Cardiff 2 Cardiff North Y, not which party

Stanley M N 49-56 Y Tory 4 Cardiff 2 Cardiff 2 Cardiff North Y, and party

Hayley F Student 18-25 Y Labour 4 Cardiff LD Cardiff 2 Cardiff Central Y, and party

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ContentsVOTE CHOICE STORY..............................................................................................................................7

Hayley................................................................................................................................................7

Hayley................................................................................................................................................7

Hayley................................................................................................................................................8

Stanley...............................................................................................................................................8

Stanley...............................................................................................................................................8

Erica...................................................................................................................................................9

TO WHICH POLICIES WILL YOU PAY ATTENTION?..................................................................................9

Hayley................................................................................................................................................9

Stanley...............................................................................................................................................9

Erica.................................................................................................................................................10

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Stanley.............................................................................................................................................11

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................11

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Erica.................................................................................................................................................12

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................12

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Stanley:............................................................................................................................................13

WAS THE ELECTION FAIR?...................................................................................................................14

Stanley.............................................................................................................................................14

Erica.................................................................................................................................................14

Erica.................................................................................................................................................14

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................14

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................15

Erica.................................................................................................................................................15

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Stanley.............................................................................................................................................15

Erica.................................................................................................................................................15

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Hayley..............................................................................................................................................16

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Hayley..............................................................................................................................................16

Erica.................................................................................................................................................16

TOO MANY REFERENDUMS?...............................................................................................................17

Stanley.............................................................................................................................................17

Stanley.............................................................................................................................................17

Erica.................................................................................................................................................18

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................18

Stanley.............................................................................................................................................18

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................18

Stanley.............................................................................................................................................18

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................18

Erica.................................................................................................................................................19

How you're going to vote in the Welsh Assembly elections in 2016...............................................19

Erica.................................................................................................................................................19

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Erica.................................................................................................................................................19

Stanley.............................................................................................................................................19

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Hayley..............................................................................................................................................20

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Stanley.............................................................................................................................................21

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Transcript

VOTE CHOICE STORYI2: Welcome back; it's brilliant to have you back. For us, it's been a really interesting election. We want to find out what it's been like for you and your thoughts on what has happened. We also want to find out the process of voting for you, so when did you vote, were there any last minute wobbles or were you kind of decided on how you were going to vote and when the election results came out what did you feel about the results in your constituency, what do you feel about the results overall? And then we're going to look forward to the 2016 Assembly elections and see how you're thinking about that and cover some ground in those terms. Just quickly to go over, we've got the same form. You sign the consent form in the pre-election focus group that covers you for this focus group as well, that's why you're not signing anything giving your consent because you're covered, but if you've any questions about what's going to happen with the data, the things that you say, the recordings, anything about our publications, obviously we are on social media Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, and we have a website as well so you can follow us and keep in touch with us that way, or send us an email and we are happy to answer any questions. For the 2016 assembly election we will be hopefully putting in a bid to get some more money to do this all over again, and we would love to have you back. So again, if you're interested, just let us know and we'll keep you on file. I think that's all for the housekeeping. Let's start then by talking about your voting day, as we are calling it. Tell us the story of your voting day. When did you vote? How did you vote? Why did you vote the way that you did? And then of course when you finally got the results and what did you feel about that? So, I'll start with Hayley, if that's ok?

Hayley: My day, in general, was a stressful day because it was the day before my dissertation. So I had a lecture in the morning and then I went to vote, locally, it only the primary school right round from where I live. So in the election I voted for Labour and then... well I kind of had the results because I was trying to finish my dissertation, I was up all night! Just to keep me motivated I was watching the Channel 4 alternative election things, it was actually quite funny, and I saw the exit polls and I was just like "no, it can't be true" and as the night went on, I was like "yeah, it's going to be true."

I: How did you feel about the results?

Hayley: I was shocked at the poll because everything pointed to a hung parliament, not even two parties could get a majority, it might have been 3 or... So I was shocked at how the polls got it so wrong; I was kind of shocked at that. I don't know, obviously I 04:29 but I wasn't really happy with the result. But I don't see this government going...like they were talking through the broadcasts, it's been something like 15 by-elections in the last 5 years, and because the majority is by, I think it's 5?

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I: Yeah, it's really small.

Hayley: They can easily lose that in by-elections. I think this whole...it's not really set in stone how things are going to pan out for the next 5 years.

I2: Great, thank you. Stanley?

Stanley: I was up very early to vote. I was, in fact, the first person in my polling district to vote; I was there at 7am when the ballots opened. I voted Conservative then forgot about the election for the rest of the day. I had a normal day. I was toying with the idea of staying up, and I was on Facebook and a friend said "the exit poll has just come out. Cripes!" And I thought to myself "oh dear, that's bad news," because my friend is a Conservative, and I checked the exit poll and I thought "bloody hell, this is rather surprising! I'll watch a little of the election coverage," and I ended up watching it all night and well into the next morning. So I was 05:40. So my feelings about the election? I was not surprised that the Conservatives were the largest party; I thought all along that that would be the case. I thought, like everybody else, absolutely everybody, that it would be a hung parliament. So I was very surprised by the Conservative majority. My emotions of this? I'm not overjoyed, I would say more of one of relief and, like Hayley, I do wonder now about the future, about the stability of the government with such a small majority. In my conspiracy theory moments I think Cameron would rather have preferred something like the last results where he could continue in coalition with a large number of Liberal Democrats, but now he's got to think Conservative majority and members of John Major 06:29 So wait and see.

I: Can we ask, we've been up in Scotland and we're going to get down into England, but in terms of people in the Wales area, what was the motivating deciding for Conservatives, what were the main things in your mind that you were...when you put your box there what was...?

Stanley: I can actually put it in descending order of priority what I think the big turn offs were for the other side. First of all, Ed Miliband was obviously not prime ministerial. Secondly I think in Wales, the rise of the SNP actually had a negative effect because I think a lot of people saw... well, the SNP, soon they're going to be writing Labour's budget and everything like that, and I think people here are not Conservative but they're Unionist. I think it put a lot of people's backs up, that it, so it did, and I think that probably won it for the Conservatives, the SNP thing. Also, particularly in Wales, there is a lot of disquiet about the way Labour run the National Assembly. There's an obvious gap in terms of health and education between Wales and England now, so that did them no favours. Also, specifically in Cardiff north, Labour fought an appallingly bad class war type campaign, which went down very badly and did not swing the voters. The Conservatives had a good candidate, local candidate, put out a lot about local affairs in his literature and I think seemed the more reasonable on the day.

I: Thanks for that, appreciate it.

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Erica: I was an early voter as well, so I decided to do it on the school run and I wanted to take my kids along so that they would have that memory of me voting and I was trying to explain to them in a childlike way about the importance of voting. So I voted Labour in Cardiff North, and I really did think that they had a chance so I was quite shocked that Conservatives won. Maybe it was because on my specific road they campaigned. I didn't get any Conservative literature at all. I got UKIP, Plaid Cymru and Labour and that was it, I didn't get any Conservative literature, which I thought maybe they're specifically targeting different areas for different parties. Then I just went to work. My son had the day off because his school was a polling station so I was teaching him about politics and going on to the news round websites and showing him about the different parties and things. I decided not to... I wasn't going to do an all-nighter like I did before; I get tired too easily. I did see the exit poll, I was quite shocked, and then I went to sleep, woke up in the morning and was pretty surprised like everyone, and pretty gutted as well. I grew up under a Conservative government and I'm quite gutted that my kids are going to have to as well. But you just have got to make the best of it and get on with it, really. That was my day.

TO WHICH POLICIES WILL YOU PAY ATTENTION?I: So moving forward, in terms of what's come out already or the weeks and months ahead, are their particular policies or areas of politics that you are going to be paying attention to, or something in the newspaper to keep an eye on when it comes to the new government? Maybe Hayley would start? It's okay not to have an opinion too.

Hayley: The thing that I'm most concerned about is the welfare cuts. They said that it's 12 billion but then I said where so I'm kind of unsure, they haven't really set out where that's coming from. In that Question Time special he said that he wouldn't restrict child benefit. I'm kind of thinking is that going to happen? I'm not sure about this EU referendum, apparently they say that they might bring it forward. I don't understand why, because having spent two years talking about it, it's just... Yeah, I'm not sure what they're going to do about the EU. They haven't really set out what they actually want, renegotiated. I can't think of anything else of the top of my head but I think those are the main things I'm not sure about.

I: How about you Stanley?

Stanley: Well, I think that I said the last time that I took the line that what people say in their manifesto is largely irrelevant, and I think only 9% of the electors believe manifestos, according to one poll ? I look more first about general values and overall ethos. I honestly believe that Cameron didn't believe that he was going to win and now he's probably as shocked as anybody with the thought of having to actually implement some of this manifesto, which I suspect he doesn't believe in himself. So, on the issues, I regret to say that he's going to be doing stupid things on civil liberties, which I oppose, but so would the other side, probably. I think that a European referendum is necessary now because the boil

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has to be lanced one way or the other; we have to make up our minds. I think he's being very clever there actually, just leaving it to the electors to sort out. I think that's probably the right way to do it. On the rest of it, just so long as he keeps the economy ticking over I suppose most of us that voted for the Conservatives will be happy. I think that's why he won; we don't expect anymore of him. Conservatives now are mostly down to the Welsh Assembly more than anything else, so that will be important next year, and as far as the national government is concerned, keep us out of wars, keep the economy ticking over and we'll be happy.

Erica: Yeah, I think the things that stood out for me since the election day is the human rights and also the regional... I can't think of the word, but up in the north where they're trying to do more regional....

Hayley: Are these boundary changes that he's talking about?

Erica: They were saying about the cities having more devolved powers.

I: Bigger cities, if they have elected mayors they get these devolved powers.

Erica: So I'm quite interested in how that pans out, it seems that the north is going to be the experiment region to see if that works. I think Manchester, Birmingham... I'm not quite convinced about that, I'm more for the greater good of everybody rather than splitting up into tiny little things, but that's just my thought. But it will be interesting to see how that works, and Europe as well, yeah I'll just wait and see what happens with that. Those are the things that stood out for me.

I2: Thanks guys. So we have been asking our participants in Scotland, and when we go down England we're going to ask them as well, what they feel about the SNP wave, the SNP surge, the SNP taking over a lot of seats, almost all the seats in Scotland, so our question to you is what do you think about this? Do you think it's actually a positive thing? How do you see that panning out, having any impact on Wales or on the UKIP?

Erica: Yeah, I don't think it's going to have a massive effect on Wales. They're more nationalistic, shall I say, than Wales, who are a bit more integrated with England. For me personally, it doesn't really affect me. Scotland is so far away, so far removed from Wales that I don't think it's going to have a big effect.

I2: In terms of the outcome for Scotland having 56 or 59 seats

Erica: That doesn't surprise me at all. I think their leader is excellent. She comes across very well, so if you are Scottish... and I can totally understand why she got the votes and why the party got in.

I2: Thank you. Stanley, what about you?

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Stanley: I think that they did have an influence on the election. I think it was probably a negative election in that... the great lesson here is that Wales more like England than Scotland. There was a definite Unionist backlash in the last days of the campaign when the SNP started, frankly, throwing their weight around. When Alex Salmond made that joke about writing Ed Miliband's budget for him a lot of people picked up on that and were saying "hold on, who does this guy think he is?" and that probably won it for the Conservatives in Wales, as well as in England, it really wasn't...There was no single moment, there wasn't a Sheffield moment as there was in 1992, but I think that was the closest to it when people felt "hold on, Scotland may want to be independent, or close to independent and may probably be now in a few years’ time, there's not that same public mood in Wales." Plaid Cymru are the fourth most popular party here. Really they're geographically and politically isolated. There isn't the same mood at all here.

I: Thank you. Hayley?

Hayley: It's kind of confusing. Obviously if Scottish people want to vote for the SNP... I understand why, Nicola Sturgeon, she comes across well and I think her views reflect what they feel in Scotland. I think on the impact in general, I'm not really sure, because the Conservatives have the majority. I don't know, they're kind of like how the Lib Dems used to be before they went into coalition; they're the third biggest party but they can't really do much. I guess they want physical autonomy, I guess if that's what they were promised in the referendum they're entitled to it. To be honest, I don't see how it's going to work out, because I think I read they spend more than they raise. Obviously they have a tax battle so they can sort that out themselves. I think in Wales, I don't think it will change much. I don't think Plaid got many seats; I think about 4 or something.

Stanley: Three, I think, wasn't it?

Hayley: Yeah, and it was very Welsh kind of strongholds. Places like Cardiff are a bit more metropolitan, a bit more mix of people so they don't tend to vote like that. I know the leader of Plaid thinks Wales will be independent at some point in her lifetime. I don't agree with her. I think do they have the necessary things in place for it to be independent. I don't think it really changed much in Wales. The SNP in general, I think it did kind of make people swing towards the Conservatives, because they just kind of thought if I vote Labour I'll get the SNP but if I vote Conservative, those two don't like each other so at least we won't have to worry about them, I guess.

I2: Can I just ask, just from your perspective, and if you don't have an opinion, obviously that's fine as well, why do you think the people in Scotland voted for the SNP? What do you think about an SNP voter?

Stanley: I actually think it's part of the whole anti-politics thing more than anything that the SNP says or does. The SNP has changed over the years, as you know. It used to be a fairly traditionalist, nationalist party, then it swung quite violently towards the left to take

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Labour's seats. But I think it really has been a generally national party, Scotland have been the nation in this election in a way that Plaid could never be, really protesting against the Westminster establishment, not necessarily England but the whole Westminster establishment thing. It's basically the same reason why people are voting UKIP in this country. UKIP did very badly for Scotland, because the equivalent of the UKIP vote went to the SNP, though they'd hate you for saying that, but it's true.

I: You see it as an anti-establishment vote rather than a pro saying "we want another referendum vote"?

Stanley: I think the SNP and their election campaign were very careful to say "this isn't about independence, this isn't about independence." I think it was an anti Westminster vote, very strongly, rather than an anti-English vote.

Erica: Yeah, I would agree with that as well. I think that Scottish people, I think the geography of the country is very interesting and I think that affects a lot of things, because they are so prominently... they're Scottish, they have a very strong sense of identity, and that's not to say that Welsh people don't but historically the English and the Welsh have always intermingled and there's been a lot of, kind of, you know, London is only 3 or 4 hours on the train, it's a lot more fluid than Scotland, which is a bit more, it really is away from Westminster and they probably can't identify as much with the politics there. I think that's probably got an impact on it as well.

I: Thank you.

Hayley: I think people have been known to vote Labour but I think... So I guess it's that whole disenfranchise movement of politics that people are experiencing, so I think they do turn towards the more fringe, well, they're not really fringe anymore, they kind of turn towards those parties, and I think especially in Scotland, I guess they do have some influence, I think they are the main... they do have the Scottish parliament so it's not like they've never been in government at all. I think, especially in this election, I think Labour seem too far to the right in Scotland, even though in England they're probably saying they're too far to the left. But I think in Scotland they kind of even more towards... I think, yeah, their values kind of intermingle, the very things, like you know... Scottish people will say that they're Scottish first and then they're British, whereas someone from England might say oh, I'm British and then I'm English, or I'm British and then I'm Welsh. So I think that kind of... But I think, yeah, the main thing is people who vote Labour, or maybe even Lib Dems, have kind of switched because they kind of think they're not really working for us anymore.

I: That's right. We have talked to SNP voters and that's how they see themselves now, anti-establishment and Labour as not really connecting, and yeah that sort of distancing, wanting local representations. So yeah, you guys nailed it.

Stanley: Could we be Scots?

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I: We'll see what happens when we go to England.

I2: Yeah, we're just curious to see how people view the SNP, because there's a lot being said in the media and we want to see how people actually mean by these impressions or do they....

Stanley: I think we are all in awe of Nicola Sturgeon. I think that she was the outstanding star of the campaign, and I wish we had a Welsh Conservative leader like that. She was magnificent, I thought. I don't agree with her but as a party leader for those that support her, she was first class.

Hayley: I think if it was her instead of Alex Salmond in this referendum it might have actually gone their way. Yeah, because I'm not really a big fan of Alex Salmond. I don't know, he just doesn't come across very well. I think Nicola Sturgeon is easy to connect with and she has very straight answers to every question. They always say “is this about independence?" and she would say "no, this is not about independence!" very clearly.

Stanley: You two might not like the analogy but I'm old enough to remember this, she is like a young Margaret Thatcher. She has that sort of energy and focus and she's not afraid to say what she means. I think she connects with people...

I2: Just taking that analogy, and digressing a bit, do you think she's going to alienate people the way Margaret Thatcher did?

Stanley: Yes.

I: For probably the same reasons?

Hayley: Yeah, they go on about friendship and stuff. They always say "well, actually we want to be friends with everyone else, we try to get along," but you can't really believe that, especially when you hear she'll vote on stuff that only affects England or England and Wales, and you think "is that right?" Not really.

Stanley: At the moment she's soft and cuddly because there's no real conflict, but that day will change.

Hayley: I think when they get fiscal autonomy I think it's going to really see what she is.

Stanley: I think this is going to be the big question, because the conspiracy theory at the moment is that the last thing she wants is fiscal autonomy, because of course then she loses the Barnett Formula, which has been very, very generous to Scotland. So the conspiracy theory going around Conservative circles is that Cameron should actually offer her fiscal autonomy and see what happens. She might actually back away from it very quickly.

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WAS THE ELECTION FAIR?I2: Yeah, so watch this space. I think you might remember I was talking about, I was collaborating with the electoral commission, in the pre-election focus groups when we asked you about registration and so on, so part of that collaboration is also to see what your experiences of the election process were. So not PR, because obviously the electoral commission cannot do anything about the voting system, but how elections take place, so the daily technicalities, the day to day administration and so on. So in terms of the elections then was your experience of the election that it was it well run, that it was fair? Or are there things that you would like to bring up in terms of how the election was actually run?

Stanley: I have to say, it may be different for the students, but from my point of view it was just like every other election I have ever voted in. I didn't notice any difference.

Erica: I thought obviously the social media impact, you logged into Facebook, as a lot of people do now, and it was "have you voted?" The fact that you could kind of share with your friends that you voted, and I know my husband voted for the first time this year and I think it was because he got a lot more involved in what was going on, it was the fact that it was on media, it was on social media as well and on TV. I think they aimed more at younger people. It didn't seem quite as "fuddy duddy" or whatever, for want of a better word. It seemed a bit more like it was cool to vote. So I think that was a good thing about it. Other than that...

I: No problems with your ballot?

Erica: Why is it pencil? That was the only thing. I keep querying why would you vote in pencil?

I: We had someone else ask that question too, and I don't have an answer but we can put that in.

Hayley: The last election was a month before my 18th birthday so I wasn't eligible to vote. I think it's easier this time, in that you can do it online with the registration; it only takes about 2 minutes. Before you had to sign up as a whole household which I think, especially when you're a student, is a bit hard to do. I think that was a good thing. When I walked into the polling station I was like "oh this is all so new!" The only thing I found bizarre was the fact that they had a sheet of names and they had to find your name and cross you off. I guess in some ways it may be more secure but...the only other thing I was more unsure about was that you can just walk in with anyone’s poll card, and I kind of thought that anyone could have taken anyone else’s poll card. I would have thought...I took my ID because I thought that I would have had to show some ID or something. I thought that was a bit...

I2: Too easy.

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Hayley: Yeah, it was just that anyone could have voted for anyone else. I think they need to be a bit better...

Erica: I think that when you physically go into a polling station it's very old fashioned, and I mean I didn't even go in with my polling card, I literally just turned up and they said "what's your name and the first line of your address?" and they marked me off and then I went and voted in pencil, and I just thought in this day in age that's not very...I'm not saying that it would be rigged or anything like that but I think in this day in age... My boss was telling me the other day that her kids in secondary school have to be fingerprinted to go to their canteen and I was thinking in a general election you've got this level of security checks. So I think maybe the next time they should be a bit stricter.

Hayley: I don't know why they can't be a bit more digitalised. I don't know if it's just because it's due to manipulation, I guess paper can't really be manipulated as much but like when you've got so many names, like thousands of names and you've to search for them and cross them off. There was a queue building up, I just think it would be a lot easier if there was a better system in place, probably a bit more secure.

Stanley: This is what fascinates me. You've got all these people who are having more digitalised systems, like ourselves, voting machines in America and stuff, they all have problems with electoral fraud. But we, with our old fuddy duddy system based on trust, to an extraordinary degree, we have had very, very little electoral fraud, historically. This business now in Tower Hamlets, it's blown up because it's so unusual in this country. We have had very few instances of fraud, considering how easy it's to do.

I: I think what we do find is that the system is very open, it's meant to not be a barrier to people who can't afford €90 or are maybe too old or don't want a drivers licence, but on the other hand I think people are so used to having pins and chip and pin and going through security that I think you feel a little bit naked almost when you go.

Erica: You can't pick up a parcel from the post office without showing your ID.

I: I don't think people are calling for "let's have photo IDs and scanning," it's more just the contrast. Now you walk in and go "that's it, that's all I have to do, that's all," whereas 15 or 20 years ago probably people wouldn't reflect on that but with all the security things we've had with the internet. You guys are not the first to basically say, "I like that, I can go in, it's around the corner, I forgot my polling card and they still let me vote." They go "but I forgot my polling card and they still let me vote." I think it's a little bit of anxiety just from a modern... accustomed to being privacy, privacy, privacy. But this is something that we're picking up in other groups, and people are also very well aware that it is a crime, that there isn't a lot of voting fraud taking place, it's not a problem. But on the other hand we are hearing that kind of...

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Stanley: It's going to be interesting. I reckon one day that we'll move to a more digital and I'll bet you money now that the very next election will have the Florida situation.

Hayley: There's one in this election 31:30 Nigel Farage.

I: There's also a happy medium, which I would advocate in Wisconsin. What you have is you have a ballot and you have a marker and you've got arrows, and there's this gap between the arrow and you just fill in, you connect the arrow to complete it next to the candidate it's pointing to, and then you put it through the little machine that scans it. Then it scans every single ballot and keeps a running total but it keeps all the ballots in the machine. That way you have a digital count that at 8 o' clock they can shut the doors, they press a button and it prints out a receipt, and then you call up the county clerk’s office and you go "this person got this many votes, this person got this many votes, this person got this many votes," and then by 9 o’clock the election is over and you know what the results are. If there are any doubts or if there's a recount or anything you still have the physical ones and you can make sure it was connected all the way across or somebody...(over talking)

Hayley: I notice they had to do a couple of recounts. I think in Ed Balls' constituency, because he only lost by a few hundred votes and they had to do a recount, and I think... when you just see...they're showing you on TV these halls, tables of people counting and I kind of think "isn't there a better system?" Just like you said, you scan it and it just adds it up. If a bank can count money by placing it on there and telling you how much it was then why can't...

I: It's pencil, that's why. So these are questions, I don't know if anyone wants to spend taxpayers' money to digitalise the system but it's good to hear how people's experiences were and also where they...

Hayley: I think it would end the problem. Like you always hear in certain places people have had to close or something because too many people are going to vote. I don't know if it happened in Scotland, I think it was a bigger problem, I don't know if it happened here but I think if that became more of an issue they would have to have a look at how they do voting or just the way they do polling stations and such.

Erica: From a personal point of view I would prefer that polling stations weren't in schools, because it's really inconvenient having to have a child off school for a polling station when it could effectively be any kind of hall or something. So I don't quite know why they choose primary schools, and in fact my work place, I work in Sport Wales, in fact that was where the count was in. It was quite interesting, I brought my son into work and I said "you see that big hall in there, later on all the votes are going to come here and they're going to..." It was good seeing it physically. But yeah, the whole thing seemed very old fashioned and you just thought there must be an easier way of doing this than what they currently are...

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TOO MANY REFERENDUMS?I: One of the questions, we don't want to ask about the EU referendum, the content of it, because that may be for another study, but the UK is not traditionally been a country where you get a referendum every year to decide things and yet in the last few years you've had had the AV Referendum, there has been the Independence Referendum and now, as you say, they're talking about the EU Referendum, maybe moving it up a little bit. We just want to know your opinion on the idea of referendums, I prefer referenda myself but we've been told referendums is the one that is correct. What's your opinion on referenda? Do you think it's a good thing to be asked, that it's put in front of you, or do you think it's too contentious, there's not enough interest, maybe it depends on the topic, but just some feedback on this idea of being presented with all these choices? People may not have an opinion. Do you want to start, Stanley?

Stanley: I have always got an opinion, yes. Firstly, my most important opinion is, you're absolutely right, it is referenda, from the Latin. And incidentally, I also hate forums; it's fora. I think a convention has now developed that you can't have a major constitutional change without a referendum, and I think that's a right principle. I don't think that we should be consulted on absolutely everything, that's why we elect responsible politicians. I don't want a situation as you have in California, where you have in one referendum voters voting to set up a spending programme and then in the next referendum to cut taxes simultaneously. Someone has to take responsibility for those sort of decisions; that's why you need politicians. But where there is a constitutional change, like AV, like Europe, like the Welsh Assembly, or more powers for the Welsh Assembly, I think that convention is right and I hope we stick to that. Also, if ever we get rid of the House of Lords I hope there's a referendum on that. I would have liked to see a referendum on this Bill or Rights thing before it became law. If we do have a British Bill of Rights, whatever that may mean, actually we've got one, we've had one since 1692 but everyone seems to have forgotten that, if we do have another Bill or Rights perhaps we should have another referendum on that and a bit of a public debate about it. Anything to do with the constitution, a major constitutional change, we should have a referendum. That includes, by the way, these super mayors up in the north. One of the things that annoys me about that is that the people of Manchester had the option of a super mayor a couple of years ago, they voted and they voted against.

I: For a northern assembly.

Stanley: Yes, and now it's coming back again. By all means but let the people choose. I think that's a good principle.

Erica: I would agree with that as well. I think in terms of if people interested or not, I'm sure... you know, they do get low turn outs in the general election but that up to people. I think it gets people engaged, it's in the news, if you care enough about the issue then go out

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and vote about it. But yeah, we shouldn't be voting on every single thing. But I think overall it's a good thing.

Hayley: I agree with referendum on major issues that have not just one effect on economics but multiple different type of effects, like Scotland going independent has more than one effect. So I think that was obviously important. The only thing I really have a problem with is how long that decision is determined to be final. If they say no, how long... like the Scottish referendum, people are talking about a referendum, it will turn into a "neverendum." They'll keep giving out referendums until they get the answer they want. I think what happened with Europe, would someone like Nigel Farage, if he wasn't happy with the result, think, "oh, actually I want another one." l guess with that AV, I guess people obviously voted no quite a lot but I guess things have maybe changed a lot. I think they need to be clearer how long that decision is determined to stand for before ...or what criteria there would need to be to have another referendum.

I: Thank you, appreciate that.

I2: Just going back to the Scottish question, you've brought it up, how many of you think that because of the 2015 Scottish outcome, so 59 seats, that that may end up somewhere down the line into a second independence referendum for Scotland

Stanley: Nicola swore on a pile of bibles that she wasn't trying to do that in the general election. I think that it would be very naive to assume that there would not be another referendum if the SNP 39:28 money in Scotland continues. Officially, this result doesn't make any difference to that constitutionally but if we had another 5 years of, say, a Conservative government in Westminster and SNP in Holyrood the pressures will undoubtedly grow. Unfortunately, I'm sorry to say this, I think the SNP will keep banging away until, as you say they, get the result that they want.

Hayley: I can't see David Cameron, as long as he's in power I can't see him allowing them another referendum. I think he will...I don't really agree with most his policies but I think he should say "you had your chance; you've got to deal with the result." I do think maybe the fiscal autonomy might change things a bit..."Actually we are going to stay."

Stanley: I think you're right there.

Hayley: I think the main reason the referendum was shot down was the economics, because Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond were saying "we're going to have a currency union," and then George Osborne and David Cameron were saying "you walk away from the UK and you walk away from the pound, you go it alone." I think that was part of if, because they couldn't be sure, and I think a lot of people in Wales, England and Northern Ireland were like "we don't want to be responsible for their debts; they will have to go it alone." She says there's this triple log thing, she has put in a manifesto, people have to vote on the manifesto and then it has to...people have to vote for it but I think David Cameron... I can't see a prime

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minister agreeing to it because he doesn't want to be the person that broke up the UK, because if he is he'll be out.

I2: Erica, do you've any thoughts on this?

Erica: No. I agree with what's been said, really. I don't think that there will be a referendum, for definite, I think when it comes down to it, Scotland do need Westminster and I think that it's a bit idealist to think that they can do it alone.

How you're going to vote in the Welsh Assembly elections in 2016

I2: It's the final question, which is looking forward to the 2016 Welsh Assembly elections, and what we want to know are a couple of things, which is does your vote and the result this time around affect how you're going to vote in the 2016 election and what issues are you going to be paying attention to for the 2016 election, and it's fine not to have an answer to this because it is a year on, and the reason that I'm asking you now is if you come back in a year's time, if we get the money, we want to have a comparison to see what were you thinking about and have things changed a year on?

I: They haven't probably started dropping lit yet, so... Maybe a way to ask this is, in terms of the assembly, and Labour being the major party, would you like to see that again, would you like to see more diversity? When you look at the assembly in terms of its representation going forward what are your thoughts about its relation to the Westminster Conservative government now?

Erica: I'm quite open to... I wouldn't say who I'd vote for now, I think I'm going to look at how things are in a year. The most important things for me is education. I sit on a governing board of one of the primary schools in Cardiff so I see the cuts and the impact on education that the Welsh Assembly has so that would probably be a key...

I: That you will be focusing on?

Erica: Yeah.

I: Will you be judging the parties and your votes for the assembly?

Erica: Primarily on education, yeah.

I: A year is a long time in politics.

Stanley: Fascinating. I might fill up your twenty minutes yet. The one interesting thing, I'm just trying to think of the dynamics of the assembly. The interesting thing now is that the combined UKIP and Tory vote in Wales is actually greater than the Labour vote. There is the historic possibility of two party politics coming to the Welsh Assembly. The only problem is this, that if the Conservatives and UKIP manage to unite themselves and get something

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resembling a majority they still wouldn't be in charge, because Labour can't do a deal with the Conservatives, Plaid can't do a deal with the Conservatives. So you might have a situation where you have a sharply reduced Labour vote but nevertheless Labour remain in power as a minority administration. It's insane! To a certain extent, our votes will be wasted, which is rather a depressing situation, but then assembly being what it is. I don't think anyone thinks that Labour has done a good job, I think even long-term Labour supporters are embarrassed by Labour's administration in the assembly. The health service is awful, it's not awful, that's not true, it's a lot further behind England than it ought to be, and in the league tables in education Wales is also falling badly behind England. So everybody agrees there's a need for change but I can't see how our votes will translate into that change, however we vote, unless somehow the entire Labour party disappears tomorrow, which it's not going to do.

I: Unless you have another issue like in Scotland...

Stanley: Plaid aren't going to do that, and the Conservatives and UKIP certainly aren't going to do that, so however we vote we seem to be going to end up with a Labour Assembly, which is a rather depressing situation. I don't know what's going to change.

I: I know that you were a little concerned about Labour dominance and wanted to see more variety from the pre, wanting to put a voice in there that was a check or a counter.

Stanley: I believe in democracy. I believe that it is necessary in any democracy, no matter who's in power, for there to be change from time to time, and until we have a change in Welsh assembly we can't say that we've a got a democracy in Wales. I think the UN standard is if a country is only consider a democracy when there has been two peaceful changes of administration. We haven't had that in Wales yet and until we do we are not really a functioning democracy, and I think that it's desirable that we should be.

I: Thanks.

Hayley: I think the Health Service is really appalling. I guess it's just because I've lived in England so long, when I came here... I was ill a few months ago and I called up Out of Hours, it took me 6 hours to just get in contact with a nurse and then it took another 4 hours to get into contact with a doctor and then "oh actually, you should come in," and that was another 5 hours before I was seen by a doctor. I got there, got seen by a nurse and then she tried to pass it off as a migraine or something, I was like "it's not a migraine," and then I had to wait like another hour to go and see a doctor and he finally diagnosed me with sinusitis. I was thinking if I was in England that wouldn't happen. My hospital, where I'm from, I probably would have been seen within...even though it was a Saturday night I probably would have been seen within the 4 hour limit, and I guess the prescription's free so you've got to weigh your options. Yeah, the health service, I think it's a main thing of like money, although apparently they're building the Proton Beam Centre here in Newport or something. I don't know how they're affording that, because they're expensive. I think yeah, education is

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important, it's hard not to concentrate on the stuff that's devolved. I guess housing is kind of important but I think... I only know from my student accommodation, bringing in all these rules now to make it a bit more...like best standards, which is better. I think the main issue is money. Wales doesn't have enough money but the problem is no one has said a way that they can get it. Plaid said "oh the treasury has all this money and we just want 1.2 billion of it," and they think that we'll just get it. They haven't really said, how? I don't know how a few Plaid assembly members can just go to David Cameron and say that we want all this money, now. I don't know about Conservative, I can't see them getting a majority in Wales, it's just too...like a friend of mine, her constituency, I think it's somewhere in Swansea, I think the Labour candidate lost by about 27 votes.

Stanley: Gower?

Hayley: She was going mad. She was a Labour supporter and she thought if someone had voted it would have really swung the vote a lot. I can't see the conservatives... I know there's a lot of issues that tend to be 49:26, things like poverty, but I think it needs to be stuff like education and jobs, especially at the younger level, starting from nursery upwards, ensure that... I think the main issue is money, unless they can figure out a way to get the money necessary I don't see how the education, health, housing, I don't see how all that can be implemented. I think Labour might end up... even if it's in a minority I think they might still end up running the Welsh assembly. I can't really see that changing.

I: It's a good bench mark, also your concerns and the perceptions of performance, and we'll see if there performance or their competence or their service have changed at all in the next 12 months, or if people feel the same.

Hayley: It depends on how this government pans out. I think it the key thing is to get as many policies as possible in the first 100 days, depending on how the government pans out. If they do well they might get more votes but I can't see it translating into more seats, but I think that's a problem with the voting system.

Stanley: Yes

I: Well, we really appreciate your thoughts, your perspectives, it's what makes our data good. Give you guys a round of applause, we'll be putting in the bid in August, I think it's a September 1st deadline, and we'll get notification from the British Academy round about March time. So you will be hearing from us a little bit earlier, and we'll try to set up things. We're also will be looking to go to more of the rural areas in Scotland and Wales, which we couldn't do on the budget this time. Thank you guys very much. Just to remind you to check that you filled in the questionnaire on both sides.

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