I Nyrny rn 11 I TH LOUIS FINTESHEL Tape 1 Side 1 Tina Isaacs … · 2015-04-22 · I Nyrny rn 11 I...

I Nyrny rn 11 I TH

lr,fterviewed by

LOUIS FINTESHEL

Tina Isaacs

Tape 1 Side 1

Q. This is Tina lsaa~s interviewing Mr. Louis Finteshel It is Wednesday, June the 21st and we're at the Home. Mr. Finteshel can you tell me a I ittle bit about your background, where you were born and that sort of thing.

A. I was born in New York City. came here when they had the infantile paralysis epidemic. My mother, my sister, my brother and I came to Rochester first. By the time my father got here, came to Rochester, no New Yorkers were allowed into Rochester. My father jumped the train about three miles from Rochester and walked back to get into Rochester.

Q. That's great. When was that?

A. Oh, about sixty years ago.

Q. \Jhy did you come to Rochester?

A. Because of the infantile paralysis attack.

Q. No. What I meant was why Rochester in particular. Did you have family here or ....

A. We had some relatives.

Q. \./ere your parents Americans?

A. No.

Q. Where were they from?

A. Russia.

Q. When did they come over?

A. I can't tell you.

Q. When you were growing up, did they teach you Yiddish? Or did you speak English?

A. I spoke Yiddish at home. That's one reason why my parents never spoke English, they never had to speak it.

Q. Did they subscribe to any Yiddish pub! ications, you know, 1 ike the Forward or something?

A. Yes, the Forward, the Worker's Minds, the uh unintel I igible)

Q. It doesn't matter.

A. They belonged to a Worker's Circle.

Q. Oh, they did? Was your father a socialist?

A. No.

Q. No. Were they in Rochester around the time when there was a big Socialist party around here? No, I guess not. Did you learn English in school?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you settle when you first came here?

Interview with Louis Finteshel

A. On (unintelligible) Street in Rochester.

Q. So that was in the Joseph area then.

A. (cannot transcribe)

Q. What was it J ike there? What kind of neighborhood was it?

ldf.le I

Side 1

A. Residential. There was a candy grocery store on the corner and a school, (cannot trans.) a few blocks away, so we could walk to school.

Q. And was it a Jewish neighborhood?

A. It was predominantly Jewish, but there were some German families.

Q. Were there ever any problems between the Jews and the Non-Jews in that neighborhood?

A. No. As a matter of fact, I never knew there was ... I had heard there was racial antisemitism, but I didn't come across it until I was in college.

Q. Really? What kind of anti-semitic experience did you have in college?

A. Well, one of the first of these ... they called me in the office and told me just because I lived in a Jewish neighborhood didn't mean I could stay out on Jewish holidays. I had to bring a certificate from the rabbi attesting to the fact that I was Jewish. And when I graduated they told me;' the man who was in charge of placing told me if I would change my religion he'd give me a job.

Q. Really? What kind of job was he offering?

A. Teaching.

Q. And did you. . . I guess you re fused.

A. I did.

Q. Did you have problems getting a job because you were Jewish, do you think?

A. Well, I worked (cannot transcribe) night school and I took the ... when I graduated Teacher's college was a (cannot transcribe) three year course. So, I went down and I got my Bachelor 1 s and I got in... I got an extension to teach menta 11 y retarded children and I put the problem children into (cannot transcribe)

Q. That's really interesting. Did you ... how did ... What kind of teaching did you do with the mentally retarded children? Was it sort of psychologically oriented or were you just trying to get them to learn to read or just ... What was a normal day 1 i ke?

A. The last experience I had was in high school. I worked there a year in a program (cannot transcribe). I taught baking to the boys in the morning, in the afternoon we'd take the subject matter from the work, like flour, spelling that. The ingredients they should know, they shouldn't make mistakes. And I encouraged them to go to the grocery store ... I have eighteen boys, by the way.

Q. Really? How many years did you teach?

A. Oh, I don't know. About twenty, twenty-five years.

Q. Wow. And were you baking at the same time?


A. The last year I was baking.

Tape 1 Side 1

Q. So how Jong .... Were you teaching mentally retarded children all through your experience teaching?

A. No. I didn't start teaching mentally retarded until '39.

Q. Oh, I see. Wei I, I'm going to get back to your family for a few minutes. Were either of your parents college educated?

A. No.

Q. But you were.

A. My sister was.

Q. You and your sister were.

A. My brother (cannot transcribe) my father had a bakery when we were kids. We had a choice of staying at the bakery (cannot transcribe) school or baking. In Minneapolis, Minnosota, Minneapolis. And they had another school in Chicago. American Baking Institute. In both of those schools ... In the American Baking Institute, you had to be a high school graduate. In the other school, anybody was offered who had the money to take the course. And anybody (cannot transcribe) could pass an exam got free tuition.

Q. Did you go to either of these schools?

A. No.

Q. Did anyone in your family?

A. My brother.

Q. Your brother did.


Q. And did he stay in the business with your father?

A. He stayed for awhile and then he went to work in the city. It was during the Depression when everybody was earning thirty, thirty-five dollars a week. My brother was good for about two mill ion do! Jars a year.

Q. Wow. Where did he set up his bakery?

A. He didn't. He worked as a plant manager.

Q. Oh. l'msorry.

A. In New York City.

Q. When you were a boy, did you help your father out with the bakery?

A. I never I iked baking. You have to work all night and early in the morning get up and work. I had a choice of either going to Brockport - Normal at the time - or take a course in baking. It would be harder working in a bakery so I went to school to be a teacher.

lnte~view with Louis Flnteshel

Q. What did your sister do?

A. She was a nurse.

Q. Did she stay in Rochester?

A. Yes.

Tape 1 Side 1

Q. Did you see your family often? Did you get together? Were you a close family?

A. We were very close (cannot transcribe)

Q. Is your wife a native Rochestarian?

A. Yes.

Q. Were her parents Americans?

A. No. They came (cannot transcribe)

Q. I see. They came to Rochester too, then. Do you know why they came to Rochester?

A. Well, her father came because he had relatives in Rochester. He was a master tailor.

Q. Oh, he was? Where did he work?

A. He had his own tai Joring shop.

Q. Where?

A. I don 1 t know. He had one opposite where the RKO Palace used to be.

Q. And how did you meet your wife?

A. Bl ind date.

Q. Really? (Laughter) You were fixed up? Did she go to college?

A. She went to school (cannot transcribe). She went to ? school for her parents when she was eleven or twelve years old. She had a younger brother that she took care of, a younger sister and she had an older brother, two older brothers and she had to take care of all of them. By taking care of, I don 1 t mean take care of actually, but under her ... they asked her for her advice and so on.

Q. Did most of her family stay in Rochester? Her brothers and sisters?

A. She had one brother that moved to Israel and a sister that lives out here now (cannot transcribe).

Q. Do you people get together pretty often? Family and that sort of ....

A. My wife sees her brother at least once a year, once or twice a year. And her sister from (cannot transcribe). She just said that she was her sister. They couldn't stay at our house and we couldn't stay at their's. They had two sons, we never had any children and my wife helped (cannot transcribe) her sister was sick and couldn't take care (cannot transcribe).

Q. So, did your wife help you out with the baking?

Interview with Louis Finteshel Tape 1 Side 1

A. When I ivent into the cake business. I used to decorate cakes as a hobby. I used to buy a cake, cut it up, shape it the way I wanted it, and make my own frosting and icing. We had a customer who was good for about four or five cakes a week. He was a caterer. He wanted cookies, she was making brownies. She didn 1 t realize brownies were baked on a sheet and then cut up. She took a spoon and put a dabble here and a dabble there and put nut meats on top or marashino cherries. The cookies were so good that he increased his order a few pounds, about fifty pounds.

Q. Wow.


Q. That's great. Do you think it 1 s good that women work?

A Well, I think women should be al lowed to do certain (uni tell igible). We had two women working for us. One was a baker, the other was a (cannot transcribe)

Q. Do you think that women should be as highly educated as men and have all the same opportunities?


Q. I don 1 t know. When you were working, you said that you had two people working for you. Were these people Jewish?

A. One was Jewish. (cannot transcribe) and one was Irish. I don 1 t know where she came from.

Q. How did you finally decide that you wanted to bake? After your initial ..

A. I wasn't earning any money as a teacher. (cannot transcribe) about $100.00 a year. And that wasn 1 t any money. Decorating cakes ... You see, at first when we started it was .... I sti 11 don't know how to bake like a cake that was baked by a baker and shaped or cut to the size I want and I used ... I made my own icing for it. One day, the bakers cal led a meeting and decided not to sell the 1 ittle (cannot transcribe) cake. They didn 1 t want any competitors. And they were sure if I couldn 1 t get the cake, I wouldn't stay in business. Well, that weekend, I chased around to all the bakeries. I used kids in the neighborhood to go and pick up the cake. They didn 1 t sell them (cannot trans.) The next day I went to the 1 ibrary and I looked up recipes and I found a recipe .... I don 1 t know why I 1 iked it, but I 1 iked it. (cannot transcribe) balancing the formula. I didn 1 t know anything about ingredients. Baking powder, baking soda ... to me they were the same thing. That 1 s probably now why I use Cream of Tartar, to whiten or brighten the cake. And I found an English formula that was about 200 years old. I came home and I made the cake. I couldn 1 t control it ... one time it came out good, one time it came out bad. The birds in the neighborhood wouldn 1 t eat breadcrumbs anymore, they 1 d come asking for cake crumbs. We had landlord who had a grocery store in the colored neighborhood, we used to have rum flavor ... make rum ... heavily scented or tasting rum. And colors ... bright colors, he used to sell it in the grocery store. l 1d get out the money for the ingredients. We start out with one wedding cake, and one wedding cake ... one time during our career I baked thirty-four wedding cakes in one weekend. That was the largest weekend I ever had. We made most of the Jewish and Gentile wedding cakes in Rochester. And then I got sick.

Q. So how long were you in the wedding cake business then?

A. Twenty-odd years.

Q. And you had been teaching for how many years before that?


A. don't know ... about six or seven years.

Q. see. And

A. And, I used to teach it, you see, wedding cakes . . . the wedding business, anything that has to do with weddings is seasonal. During the snow season, you can go crazy. There's no work. You kil I youself when the seasons on. But, when it's dead, you're dead too. So, I used to go out and substitute.

Q. When do most people get married? What season?

A. June.

Q. So, that's

A. And August, September.

Q. So, actually, that would work out perfectly, because people would be getting married exactly ... exactly the time that school was out.

A. Yes. My wife never helped me until I hired a ... man came to help me out. He was supposed to be a cake decorator. You're not aquainted with Rochester? There used to be a baker, Herman's Bakery ... Bake Shop, on East Avenue. He was my chief headache.

Q. How so?

A. He was a competitor of mine, and this man just using the n~me of Herman,

Q.

it was a magic name, you know. And, he helped us decorate. He did such a botched job, and we had to pay him for his botched time. There wasn't any profit left from the cake. Any cake that he touched was lost, so she decided that rather than paying a man a crazy salary, she'd do it. And, she ended up icing and decorating cakes.

So, you sort of, you went along?

I mean, you started out experimenting. Did you just learn as When did you finally come upon the secret of a good cake?

A. Well, when I . . when a cake came out good, it was very light and very fluffy. And, I didn't want a cake that was light and fluffy. I wanted a cake that would have the qualities of pound cake. It would be solid when you cut it. It should be light. Jewish don't like heavy cake. They're not ... I don't think they could sell much pound cake for that reason. They like their cakes . . . You are not Jewish, are you?

Q. Yes, I am.

A. You know (unknown)?

Q. No.

A. Light and fluffy. And, so I started to figure it out with the baking powder. I knew that much that the baking powder improves the height of the cake and the grain of the cake. Until I got exactly the cake I wanted, but I couldn't control the formula. And, I had heard a man in Mount Morris who was short in cash and had opened up a bakery. And, he was stepping on such thin ice that he was gonna pull out any minute. So, I went down to him with my formula ..


A. (Continued) I wanted him to watch in~, tell me what I was doing wrong. And, for that I was willing to pay him $200.00, but he wouldn't accept the $200.00. He says if I was a menace to the bakers in Rochester, I'd be a menace even in Mount Morris.

Q. Really? Thirty miles away?

A. Well, we had a Jot of wedding cakes from Mount Morris. I had wedding cakes all over the United States.

Q. Really?

A. From Gleason ... from Gleason Works. His daughter married a Swedish boy, and we sent our ... a wedding cake over (unintelligible) from Sweden.

Q. Did it stay fresh?

A. Oh, we froze it.

Q. Oh.

A. We packed it (unintelligible). And, we shipped it later on.

Q. That's great.

A. They were willing to pick it up the tab, so I was wi I ling to go along with it.

Q. That's incredible. Do you have any other, sort of, reminiscences J ike that? What kind of people did you sell your cakes to?

A. Well, we did our best business with the Athletic County ... girls, especially Italian and Polish extraction. Italians, they invite anybody that they see. They say hello, you're entitled to an invitation.

Q. So .

A. And then the Jewish people with the Italian working girl. (Unintel 1 igible) her parents ordered the cakes, and our cakes were for six, seven, eight hundred people. Of course, they invited ... some w~ddings they invited over a thousand people.

Q. Wow!

A. Matthew from Matthew's Ice Cream Company, Spencerport. When his daughter got married, we needed a cake that was large enough to serve about twelve hundred people.

Q. One cake?

A. One cake.

Q. How did you ever do that?

A. Wel J, we assembled it in sections.

Q. How big was it?


A. I went down to the club with a ruler and measured the doorway. And, the cake ... I tried assembling it in the house, but I couldn't get it through the door. So, I had to unassemble it, and we took it ... we cleaned out the garage, dusted it out, washed the floor ... the concrete, and finished icing it in the garage.

Q. ~aughter) Did it fit in the doorway of the place that they were having the wedding?

A. We just got it ... got it just by luck with both doors open. When we made a cake for the Community Savings Bank when they celebrated one of their anniversaries ... I think, their fiftieth anniversary, we had the old fashioned cars silhouetted on it, scenes from Rochester at-the time of ... when they first organized. And, that cake, I didn't figure that their doors wouldn't take the cake, so I was (unintelligible). We had to tilt it, and we tilted it (unintelligible) the floor. We got it through.

Q. (Laughter) That's amazing. And, you tilted it back on, and put it down?

A. After that we made it a rule .. no matter where the cake went, we measured the doorframe. If it wouldn't go through the doorway, we assembled it right at the place.

Q. Did you do that often?

A. Quite a few.

Q. How big were most of the wedding ... An average wedding cake, how many people did it serve?

A. Anywheres from 150 to 200. Sometimes 300.

Q. And, were most of your wedding cakes that size?

A. Most of our wedding cakes were big when we dealt with the Italian girls. We encouraged the Italian trade. I mean, Polish weddings are an all-day affair, an al I-week affair. They·start in the morning, they don't end ti! I the last (unintelligible). So, we get the cake in the morning for the breakfast, and they get cake with their dinner, and cake for their lunch ... now, then, they get cake in the evening for the reception. They (unintelligible) three large wedding cakes.

Q. That's amazing. Did you do ... did you serve the cake, too? Or, did you just deliver it?

A. We ... when competition started out ... we had a lot of competition from the housewives. When the housewife ... when she makes a cake and sells it, she doesn't figure out her labor, or the time, or anything else. All figures is her .. ingredients. Ingredients are the least part of the bill in baking a cake; it's the time and effort. And, it depends on how you bake a cake. My cake was scientifically made. My father who was a baker, he used to come down to our studio. He used to tell me everything I did was wrong. I don't mix, I don't the ingredients right, I don't do anything right, but not doing anything right I sti 11 got a perfect cake.

Q. (Laughter) What kind~ of mechanized things did you use in making your cake? I mean, did you have a large commercial beater, anything like that?


A. During the heighth of our business, J had a 40-quart machine ... 40, and a 30, and a 20-quart machine. In the 40-quart machine, I was able to make three wedding cakes at one time. I didn 1 t know anyone who could bake three wedding cakes. My other one couldn 1 t bake bread or rolls, it only baked cake.

Q. Really? What 1 s the difference?

A. The heat. ft had a rose I ike an elevator.

. the heat was so evenly distributed that my cake It didn 1 t come out with a hump in the center.

Q. Oh. And that· ... you can do that just by controlling the heat?

A. Yes.

Q. That 1 s incredible. 11 ll have to remember that the next time I want to bake a cake. Can you remember ... just any, you know, interesting stories about· the cakes or anything that happened?

A. Yes. One hot day, we had our studio ... you know where Shulman 1 s Furniture Store was on North Clinton? Right across the street from there, there used to be a . . . an A&P there. The A&P is gone. I don 1 t know who 1 s there now. But, Norton Street ... just over by Red Wings ... Silver Stadium .. baseball? Just a 1 ittle ways below there is the Portugese American Club or the Ukranaine American Club, I believe. We had a cake for there, it was a very hot day. And, for some reason or another, I didn 1 t trust th~ driver to deliver the cake and went myself. And, I just crawled. As we were getting out of the car . out of the station wagon, I said to the boy who was helping me ... you see we had a boy or a girl who 1 d open ... who was the door opener when you carried the cake. She 1 d open the door. Because, juggle the cake with one and open the door with the other, you 1 d have ... you might have the cake in my face. And, as we were going out, I said, 11Alan, when I open up the door, you grab the top, and 11 11 grab the bottom. 11 And just as I opened up the door (unintelligible) the top tier. The top tier ended up in my young friend 1 s hands, and the bottom tier ended up in my hands. We brought it into the hall. I had allowed myself enough time to reconstruct it, and nobody ever knew that we had such a terrible time.

Q. That 1 s amazing.

A. We wouldn't hire anybody unless they would help deliver the cake. We 1 d take a glass of water and put it in the station wagon on the floor. He was supposed to start and stop without spil 1 ing any water out of the glass, without upsetting the glass. And, if he could do that, he could de! iver our cakes.

Q. Did you ever did anybody ever drop any of the cakes or anything like that?

A. Well, we had a fat boy ... he 1 s a tremendous weight right now. I think he 1 s a I don't know, but l 1 d say about a 90 W.!listline. He could get a job in the circus he 1 s so fat. But, he was fat then, too. He was de-1 ivering a cake, and he couldn 1 t see beyond his tummy, and there was a wire there, and he tripped on the wire and fell on his ... with (unintelligible). ft was a miracle. The cake came down and landed on this hands. : .. The bottom (unintelligible) without being smashed.

Q. That 1 s amazing.

Interview with Louis Finteshel Page JO

A. l won an insurance accident case with one of the cakes. The driver that I had claimed that I was speeding. l was go 60 ... I was going 80 miles an hour .. And, I couldn't stop, and that's why I hit him. I claimed that he didn't signal. I couldn't drive that fast, 'because I carried a wedding cake. With a wedding cake, I would say, I drove, maybe, 10 or 15 miles an hour.

Q. Wow.

A. l used to have a ... with the courtesy of the pol ice department. When we carried a cake, we used always go through red lights, because you can't stop suddenly. And, I proved that to the insurance company. I said, 11 We 1 11 take a dummy and drive at the speed that this man claimed I drove and see what happens to the dummy when we step on the brake. And, I stepped on my brakes and the dummy's side was smashed completely. It skidded. It's the old phy-sics where your body thrust remains the thrust of body motion . remains the motion. That's what that is, and I took an'other dummy, put him in my car and drove at the speed that we used. And, I applied the brakes (unintel-1 igible), and it skidded a little bit, but it didn't smash up. And, I won my case.

Q. Great. Did people get irate when you were driving down the street that slowly?

A. Oh, yes. Now and then, they'd blow their horn and blow their horn. And, they'd jump up ahead of me, and they'd tried slowing down thinking they'd (unintelligible) me. But, they didn't hurt me at al I, because I was accus-tomed to going that slowly. We made a cake for the Genesee Brewery Company. A cake in the shape of a beer bottle. If I had to make it now, I wouldn't've had the worries. But, I made it then with. . . Do you remember where the (Unknown) Hotel used to be?

Q. No.

A. It was where the Midtown Plaza is now. Not Midtown ... Lincoln. Rochester Lincoln.

Q. Li nco 1 n . yeah.

A. We made the cake, but I couldn't deliver it. Everytime ... even when I went slowly, the cake swayed from side to side. It was ... Jong ago, the beer bottle was more like a pop bottle.

Q. Right.

A. I finally got it there. I don't know how I got it in one piece. But, it was smc!lshed up when they set it on· the table. Could be I didn't ... I set it on the table and left it there. But, the second year, they came back for c!lnother one. This time I was smarter. I made the cc!ike out of frosting. I made the bottle out of frosting, so they could save it as ... I colored it brown with a label, "Genesee Beer. 11 It looked just I ike a bottle of Genesee Beer.

Q. Did : .. was most ... Most of your business was wedding cakes, but how what other kinds of cakes were you .

A. Bar Mitvah cakes. I won first prize at a world's food show at New York City. They had a chef ... (unintelligible) chefs are people in the (unknown). My first entry was a Bar Mi tvah cake in the form of a ·large prayer book with gilded edges and with the ... you know, when old men read the ... read


A. (Continued) books, the Bible, they thumb it with their thumb and let the .. when the pages curl up. 1 had curled up pages. And, I won first prize. All I was expecting to get was an honorary mention. Next year I made a cake in the cascadence of flowers all over the side. I won first prize with that. The last time I won it was just before I started teaching full time .. 1 made a cake with . . . it was 1 i ke a (unknown). You know what a (unknown) is? I had on the (unknown), I had a Torah. And, next to the Torah, I had a yarmulke. And, I had an open (unknown): On the (unknown) I had (unknown). And, I had a cloth underneath with fringe.

Q. Wow! And, you decorated that all yourself? How did you wasn't it really difficult putting all those· little intricate things on a cake?

A. Right. had the patience of a saint.

Q. You must have. Did you just think up these ideas by yourself and just ..

A. Wei 1, I sti 11 . my greatest trouble here is (unintel I igible) from that and headaches. I used to get headaches so bad that they used to drive me crazy. That's why I went back and tried to teach full time. I thought, maybe, the change would take away my headaches. It didn't work out. I tried it anyways.

Q. I'm just checking to see how long it's been going? When. . now, when you would teach on and off, other than this one time with your headaches, what made you decide to go back to teaching and

A. When I took a refresher course when I decided to go back. I had been out of teaching for a long time, and all I did was audit the course at the University of Rochester. I had gotten the very next (unintelligible), and I took it for my license. And, all I wanted to see on that .. what was new in teaching. They wouldn't let me sit in on the classes unless I paid for it. So, I paid $6.00 a point. Then I paid $35.00 a point.

Q. To audit?

A. Toaudit.

Q. And where did you teach when you went back to teaching?

A. At Madison High School.

Q. What was it like teaching there? What kind of ... what kind of kids were there?

A. Well, I had ... it seems, I don't know if this is true or not. It seems that they selected all the problem children from the west side of the river and put them in one c I ass, and I got it. I got eighteen of them. Before the term was half over, I was left with about eight or nine. The rest of them were in penal institutions.

Q. Wow. And, what were you teaching, what subjects?

A. I told you. I taught baking in the morning.

Q. Right.


A (Unintel I igible) courses in the afternoon.

Q. Were you only teaching boys?

A. They used to give me a class with girls once in awhile.

Q. Did the kids change over the years, do you think?

A. Well, the boy that was my problem boy. I used to hate his guts, and he used to hate mV guts. When~ver I taught school on a long-time basis, I would select a pupil that needed my help more than the others. This boy had difficulty with all the teachers. All the classes that he had ever been in. He resented authority. He slashed my tires once, opened up the gas tank so the gas would.pour out. And he was a problem with anything that you can think of that he felt would be a good trick on me. But, when he was married, I was invited to his wedding. When he graduated, he worked for me for three years. He comes down to see me at least once a month. I was a big fisherman, so he brought me the plastic rainbow trout as a gift. If it weren't for me, he'd had gone to jail some day.

Q. Wow. Did you have any other experience 1 ike that? Is that ... do you think that was . . sort of, your greatest triumph as a teacher?

A. Yes. Then had a boy who was a pickpocket. He used to brush up agcdnst me and my pens would disappear. I would never give him the satisfaction of saying that he stoled it or that he was a pickpocket. I'd get up there in class· and say, "Will the student who borrowed my pen please return it?" I had it before school let out. When I'd get back ... I'd turn and walk out of the room. When I'd come back, my pen would be on the desk waiting for me. I got him, so he stopped being a pickpocket. He used to get $10.00 a week allowance from his family. And, he didn't steal because he needed, he stole just for the challenge of it.

Q. What kinds of students went to Madison?

A. All kinds.

Q. Was it a very mixed school? Economically, too?

A. No. Not the teaching staff. But, I don't think so. What do you mean by econom i ca 11 y?

Q. I meant the students, but ...

A. Well, see, most of my students came from very poor homes. We had to (unintel-1 igible) each class at least once a month. Each boy.

Q. At their homes?

A. At their homes.

Q. To speak with their parents?

A. To speak with their parents. Find out how they were cooperating with me.

Q. How come the parents didn't come to the school?


A. Well, the parents most of the time were drunk or they were ... most of the boys. their mothers, they didn't live with their fathers.

Q. During the course of your years as a teacher, even from the very beginning, was there ... was there a change, do you think, in the kinds of children you were teaching?

A. Well, the children that came from better parents, I knew ... the parents were more cooperative. Today, even poor parents want their children to have a high school education. You ask me ... the reason I didn't go back to it immediately, I Jost my train of thought. Where my ideas came from.

Q. Oh, yeah.

A. I had had this migraine headache, and I take enough dope to kil I a horse. And, I'd be awake. I couldn't fall asleep, and during my restless moments, I sketch cc!lkes: I sketched an organ cake that looked just 1 ike a real pipe organ. I went down to Schale's on East Avenue and Gibb Street and sketched one of their old fashioned pianos ... old fashioned organs. And, I had the foot pedals, the keys that they pulled out, three key boards, and I had a pipe organ. The pipes were about an inch and three quc!lrters and two ·inches diameter. That was the only thing that was artificial on thete. Cardboard (unintel 1 igible) froze glitter. And, I had the bridal party walking up the aisle. On the side, you know, 1 ike a candle , walking up the case. And, the keyboard I'd make (unintelligible). There's a frosting you make that comes out about as thick as that (unintelligible) youtve got there.

Q. Wow.

A. And, I'd tc!lke black coloring and make key notes. For notes, I'd make lines. I'd use small little flowers, usually.smaller ones than the notes so that you could read the ... when you read the first octave, you could understand what it is. I didn't (unintelligible).

Q. Who did you bake that cake for?

A. I don't remember it. I made it for the first woman that was a glutton for punishment. She ate a lot of cake and this furnished over a thousand pieces.

Q. Did ... you said before that you were sel 1 ing cakes to caterers. Was that where your main business came from?

A. No. We didn't sell through caterers. Caterers referred their clients to us.

Q. Oh, I see. So, even at a catered wedding, your cake could be a part of that. I mean .

A. Yes. We even had permission from one or two places in the Rochester area where they had packaged weddings. They furnished the cakes. But, due to the type of work I was in, they referred their business to us. We'd make it. Once in a while, we'd mc!lke it through them, and they'd pass it off as their own. We had some of the club managers come in and say the cake cost $15.00, they'd want us to make out a bil 1 for $45.00. We'd get $15.00, $30.00 dollars worth and then pocket the difference. We made a cake for some wealthy ·banker in Rochester, I don't want to mention names, but his wife set the price for the cake. (Unintelligible) we could have made it for a lot less, but what she said


A. (Continued) was different She said, ''Can you make a cake for $250.00? did her a favor and made it for $235.00.

Q. Did you ever make cakes for any of the other Rochester greats, you know, any of the Eastman family or that .

A. Well, we made a cake for Keilley. Keilley's daughter. We made a cake for the Woodrows, the ones that owned the original (unintel I igible) in Leroy. We made a cake for Wadsworth. The Wadsworth family of Geneseo.

Q. Let's see.

A. We made cakes for (Unknown), were customers of ours.

Q. Exc·use me.

A. Tod's from the top of the (unknown). They were pretty good customers of ours. The owners of Edward's Department Stores. The former owners were a customer of ours. We made all of her daughters wedding cakes. The vice~president of McCurdys, Mr. Gilbert. The Gi Jbert family. We made a wedding cake for them We had a lot of the elites. We had a Jot of the (unintelligible) too.

Q. (Laughter) So, your business really stemmed the whole, sort of, you know, population?

A. We 1 I , ·. I had . . . I made a cake for a woman who wanted a 50th anniversary for the monsignor of Flower City Cathedral, and she kept coming in ... she was an anti..:semite first class. She says, "The only reason bhat I'm Jetting you make the cake is because you a re related to our Lord.'' I said, ''Don't do me a favor. Give it to someone else to make." Then she brought me in a chalace, you know, that large cup that they put ... pour wine in?

Q. Yeah.

A. And, I reproduced the cha·lace in sugar, and I put it on the cake. And, she was very much p I eased because we got a 1 I the . . . most of the work from the Catha! ic Diosese.

END OF TAPE I, SIDE I, INTERVIEW I

Interview with LOUIS FINTESHEL

Interviewed by Tina Isaacs

Tape I Side I I

A. (Continued) .. want to know whether we ... whether we made Kei 1 le·y 1s wedding cake. So, I told him we did. And, he said, 11 You and who e!Ge? 11 I said, 11 1 don 1t know what you mean, but we made it. 11 11Well, if you made it. you come down. We might want to talk to you. I have a big order. 11 So, I left my work. I said, 11 1111 be down. 11 And, I went down to see them. And, I got there, and he was very.hardheaded. He was all ... this man was most of the time soused, even though he was manager of the club. And, he h~d me describe Mrs. Keilley and the daugher, the bride. I had to describe them. And, he said, 11 What did the cake look l ike? 11 So, I told him what it looked like. So, he says, 11We 11, you 1 re the on I y one that . . . you must have made it. You 1 re the on I y one that knew what Mrs. Keilley looked like. 11 None of the others described her perfectly the way she was .

Q. Was that the only . did you deal with the Country Club of Rochester a lot?

A. Yes. After this.

Q. Did ... were there ... were Jewish people al lowed to be members of that club?

A. I don 1 t think so.

Q. Did that bother you when you were selling things?

A. Even though I was Jewish, I never had an pretensions .. I didn 1t pass myself off as·somebody I wasn 1 t. But, your being Gentile .... Jewish, I mean, I 1ve sti 11 got a lot of orders (unintelligible). Can I use profane language?

. from (unintelligible).

Q. So, you don 1t think ... did you ever experience any kind of anti-semitism in your business?

A. Only once. Some minister1swife called me up once and wanted to know what my denomination was. So, I told her it was Jewish. She said, 11Well, you'll have to cancel my cake. 11 She says, 11 My husband is a minister. 11 He was .a chaplain in the service. So, I said, 11 Well, your husband may be chaplain, but with the percentage of Jews that we have in the United States, we gave more than our share of l ives. 11 And, I hung up the telephone on her.

Q. That 1s odd that a minister 1s wife would do something 1 ike that.

A. She was (unintelligible). We had a customer ... we hired a boy that we knew, and he was a col Jege boy, to deliver the wedding cakes. When Yorn Kippur came out on Saturday, and he couldn 1t de! iver them. I had one (unintelligible). Never made an issue with me about being Jewish, but I had heard from a lot of people that he was anti-~emitic, and what I figured what he didn 1t know wouldn 1t hurt him. And, this friend of mine got lost. Instead of calling the club to get directions, he went on his own. He was a college man (unintelligible). When the cake arrived so late that the wedding was practically over, ~hey had ordered another cake from somebody else. An impromptu cake, and they used this wedding cake. It took me a year to get over· the faux pas I made. 11 So, if you told me you weren 1t Jewish11

, he says, (unintelligible) 11 on Friday night and you 1d have to wait till Saturday. 11 I wish l 1d had known.

Q. Did you not de! iver on the Sabbath?


A. Oh, yes, we de] ivered on all days. (Unintelligible).

Q. I'd like to ask you some more general questions. What you were what member . what synagogue did you belong to?

A. I be I ong to Be th E J .

Q. Beth El.

A. And then, when I got sick, we joined Beth Shalom. The rabbi from Beth Shalom used to come and see me quite frequently.

Q. Did you go to Beth El often?

A. Well, we belonged to it for several years.

Q. What were your impressions of it?

A. I didn't like Rabbi . I ike his personality.

I I iked .Rabbi Karp (unintel I igible), but I didn't He was very boring when he spoke .

Q. Do you .. were you . do you consider yourself a religious person?

A. No.

Q. Do you think that ... the generations, you know, as ... that people are becoming less religious now?

A. Wel I, I ... that's a problem that I try to figure out. My nephews were brought up in a very strictly Orthodox home. The oldest one is married. They do not keep a kosher home. They even bring in bacon when they feel like having it. My wife doesn't keep a kosher home either now ever since I got sick. It got so that I'm allowed to eat ... were all under the forbiddens according to the rabbis. So, she doesn't buy pork foods. She doesn't lobster or anything I ike that.

Q. Does it bother you that people are Jess ...

A. No. I think tliat religion is just a personal matter. No matter what they be! ieve. If they be! ieve in a . . ful Jy, we'd have less wars. Less misun-derstandings.

Q. What do you think of intermarriage?

A. Intermarriage are involved.

. I can't see anything wrong with it, except where children They're the ones that take the brunt.

Q. Do you think that if a Jewish person marries a Gentile bhat he or she is lost to Judaism?

A. No. I think that if they' re grown mature people, he can go to his church, and she can go to her church.

Q. Do you think it's important, though, to teach rel igi~n to children?

A. Yes. Religion not as a religion, to teach religion as a culture. Let them know that they' re Jewish, and that they should be proud of it. Being kosher in the house doesn't make a good Jew. It makes a bigot. (Unintelligible).


Q. Okay. l 1d like to ask you some questions about ... just some general things that have taken place both in Rochester, and well,. in the United States and in the world. 1111 do it in, sort of, a roughly chronological orde·r, but not, you know, fully. Were you ever connected with the Bayden Street Settlement at all?

A. No. My wife was.

Q. What were your impressions of it? What kinds of things did she do with it?

A. Wei I, she was the luncheon monitor. She used to come in about 11:00 0 1clock and stay until about 1:00. She 1d take the children across the street, because we Jived near Number 9 School way in the back. On Saturdays, she 1d come in (unintelligible).

Q. And, excuse me, what did you think that the Bayden Street s~rved a good purpose? The Settlement?

A. I think so. Kept the children off the street and that 1s all part of it too.

Q. To your knowledge, was ther.e any friction between the Eastern-European Jews and the German ... the descendants of the German Jews that were here?

A. When I was a (unintelligible) student, I did a paper on the orphan as a problem child, and I had visited all the orphanages in Roc;hester. And, I visited the Jewish ... the German orphanage that they had on Genesee Street. It was right near where Genesee Park Boulevard begins. Going down toward Genesee Park, it 1s on the left-hand side. They had one of the most beautiful setups I 1ve ever seen. I haven 1t seen its match yet. And, they kept themselves aloof from the ordinary Jews.

Q. Do you think it was a class difference, you know, was it ..

A. Well, they thought they were better I used to go to the B1rish Kodesh. ice cream and peanuts. They did it so big, and it got out of hand, and

than anybody else. And, when was a kid, They used to have movies and give us candy or for the whole theater party unti I it got they dropped it.

Q. Wow. So, there were a lot of good activities going on at the B1rith Kodesh then. Were there any problems between the Reformed Community and the Conservative Community and the Orthodox Community?

A. Well, the Orthodox . I had an experience with the Orthodox Rabbis. When my father died, we at that time belonged to a ... Temple Emmanuel, it was Conservative and now its Reformed. They linked themselves with B 1 r i th Kodesh. The rabbi was there with several of the officers to pay their respects, and at the same time, my father belonged to B1nai, too, that 1s an Orthodox group, synagogue. The rabbi from that synagogue came ... was there. He was strutting around, a big fat baboon, with the yarmulke on. And, while the Gentiles, we had a Jot of Gentile friends, were sitting around, he in a very loud voice says, 11 Who invited that goy? 11 Then I had to explain to the Gentile friends that was just an expression of his own personal feelings and didn 1t intend to reflect the Jewish people.

Q. Do you think .

Voice: Mr. Finteshel?


A. Yes.

Voice: Wou Id you I i ke . . .

Q. Do you think that incidents I ike the one you just described happen pretty frequently?

A. Well, I know the Orthodox Rabbis are still bigoted in their every (unintelligible). They have no use for a Reformed or Conservative Jew. They don't even recognize them.

Q. So, you don't think that things have gotten any better?

A. I don't think so from the little experience get here .. See, we have a shul, a synagogue here. And, the men the ... the (unintelligible) people, they go, not because they' re religious, they go to shul every day because it's part of their upbringing. It's out of habit, and they're bigoted in every (unintelligible). Like, we've been trying to get the (unintelligible) recognized. And, 1 ike the Reformed Jew. Mrs. Harris' daughter is going to be a rabbi. But, they won't allow it ... they allowed it in (Unknown) Shu!, but not to be counted as part of the (unintelligible).

Q. And, you think that women should be counted as pa-rt of the (unknown)?

A. I don't see why not.

Q. Does it bother you that the Jewish religion has a lesser role ... that women play a lesser role in Judaism?

A. Well, I think times change. And, the individual has to change with the times, or otherwise you become stagnant.

Q. Do' you think that there are any problems between the Conservative Community and the Reformed Community?

A. I don 1 t know enough about it.

Q. Do you did you ever have any dealings with Rabbi Bernstein?

A. I knew him, but I didn't know him.·

Q. What did you think of him?

A. I thought he was a wonderful person. As a matter of fact, I have (unintelligible) books (unintelligible) all over the world. I had an Indian professor that I corresponded with until they had the Indian War there a few years ago. And, he wanted to know what Jews are like. He'd never seen a Jew. He saw the word Jew but it didn't mean anything to him. So, I sent him What The Jews Believe In. I sent him a copy. (Unintelligible) never had any sarcastic remarks after that.

Q. Do you think that Rabbi Bernstein he}ped to bring the community together?

A. I think he heJped mix the (unintelligible) ingredients in the soup kettle. He put all the different vegetables in and we a delicious soup. Take one out and cook it by itself, after that 1unintell igible).

Interview with Louis Finteshel Pcige 19

Q. That's nice. Were you ever connected at all with the JV? Did you go down there?

A. I was too busy.

Q. How about the JCC?

A. My wife belongs.

Q. What do you think of it?

A. Wei I, we saw the Jewish Community Center in Mexico, and Mexico's we thought was one of the biggest most wonderful institutions in the world. But, I think that our JCC could take away their honors.

Q. Do you think that it's good that they built such a big, expensive building?

A. Well, I don't think that they should have built such an expensive building. They should have ... the membership is getting pretty now; it's pretty steep. And, a lot of people can't afford to go.

Q. Okay. Now, when did you become aware in the 1930s of what was happening in Europe?

A. 1938. used work at the New York State Industrial School in (Unintelligible) New York. It's a school for children ... it's a disciplinarian school for ... they were sent away for running away from home, for stealing, for rape, for everything under the sun. While I was teaching, it came over the news came that Hitler invaded Poland. I'll never forget that.

Q. How did you feel when you found out what was really happening?

A. I thought that Hitler should have been stopped right at the beginning.

Q. Do you think that you were more aware of .what was going on because you were Jewish?

A. Maybe I was born a 1 ittle conscious of the fact, because he was hurting more Jews thcin he was huning ... touching ... this just touched (unintelligible).

Q. And, after the war was over when you found out what had really happened, what were your reactions?

A. Hate for (unintelligible) all German people.

Q. Has that stayed with you, do you think? .

A. Well, I won't say it stayed, but I think I'm biased.

Q. Did you support the U.N. when it was first being built?

A. When it was first being built, it was ... the idea was good. But, it grew out of hand. And, too many meddlers got involved. And, it's still all muddled up.


Q. So, has your opinion of the U.N. changed over the years?

A. lt 1 s a beautiful structure (unintelligible) unless they apply what thei-r principles are it 1 s going to fade away into nothing. Like the League of Nations.

Q. Do you think that it 1 s an effective peace keeping force?

A. No, they don 1 t have any authority to do anything (unintel 1 igible).

Q. Did your opinions change just recently during the turmoil over the Third World reaction to Israel or was it changing before then?

A. It was changing before that.

Q. Can you remember what kinds of issues changed your mind about it?

A. Well, we were at the U.N. one day when they were debating the closing of the what street was it? It runs into the Sinai Desert.

Q. The Gobi? No. No.

A. No. They closed the Channel.

Q. The Suez Cana 1.

A. The Suez Cana I. They were debating that.

Q. Did you support the State of Israel when it was first being its

A. Yes.

Q. Do you consider yourself a Zionist?

A. No.

Q. Would you ever ... have you ever visited Israel?

A. We were going to visit them four years ago when I got ... my last heart attack.

Q. Do you think you 1 d ever want to spend a long period of time there?

inception?

A. Wei 1, I'd I ike to go there, maybe, a tenth of the year and volunteer strictly so that I could teach them how to teach mentally retarded children.

Q. So, you'd 1 ike to spend a long period of time there?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you think that the survival of Israel is necessary for the survival of the Jewish people?

A. Well, I think the Jews should have a home. . homeland. The Irish have a homeland, and they 1 re not unfaithful to Ireland. The English have a homeland, and they're not unfaithful to England. The Jews have Israel, they have a place they can say it's fine, but they can chase me out.


Q. Did you ever belong to any community or civic organizations?

A. I was active in scouting.

Q. You were a scout master?

A. I used to organize scout groups.

Q. And, what kinds of things did you do with your scouting activities?

A. Oh, we tried to .. I tried to encourage the boys to forward to scouting. Try it, try th.!t, too.

Q. How 1ong were you involved with scouting?

A. Oh, I don 1 t know. took a 11 the courses they offered to scout masters. I'd say about ten years.

Q. Did it .. Oh, excuse me.

A. Actively.

Q. Did it change at all during the time that you were ...

A. Well, I think the problems that they had then, they have now is the same. think it reaches the wrong boys. Boys who don't need it, get it. And, boys that need it, don't get it.

Q. How do you think that it can reach the boys that need it?

A. They look down at all They feel bad about not being able to join. They (unintelligible) or fence for protection.

Q. Do you think that people ... that they should actively seek out the kinds of boys that really need that kind of program and try to encourage them to join?

A. Well, I don't know whether they have a program for that (wnintelligible).

Q. Do you think it would be a good idea?

A. I think any method they could reach the child that needs the help should be (unintelligible) a girl scout or a boy scout. Girl scouts get the girls at a younger age. They can mold them that much easier. In scouting, you get them at the age of twelve. Most of their patterns are formed.

Q. Were you ever a member of any other, sort of, community or civic organization?

A. I was too busy .

Q. How about . were you ever a member of any specifically Jewish organization?

A. I belonged to the Jewish Workers' (Unknown). I belonged to the Knights of (unintelligible), that's the interfaith organization. Interfaith, I don't know that Jew and Gentile would be there the same night. (Unintelligible). The Gentile groups would visit the Jewish groups, and the Jewish groups would visit the Gentile groups.

Q. Really?


A. They' re not interfaith.

Q. Why is it like that? Or that's just the way it is? Do you think it wo·uld be better if all the faiths got together?

A. Wel 1, most of the men, I don't want to quote. But, most of the men can't wait until the meetings over, and then, we play cards. We gamble. think they come around more for the gambling than they do for the meeting.

Q. see. (Laughter). Did you belong to any other

A. belong to Jewish Relief Organization. They had a beautiful ... their wives would go out and visit all the hospitals, all.the wards, and ferret out the Jewish man or woman that needed help. On Jewish holidays like Passover, they'd bring lots of wine or gefelte fish. And, on each holiday, they'd celebrate some form or other. They (unintelligible).

Q. Do you think that it's important for Jews to participate in the larger community? You know, in activities outside of Jewish activities?

A. Yes. Well, unless there's a working program between Jews and Gentiles, the Gentile doesn 1 t get the chance to know the Jews, and the Jews don't get a chance to know the Gentiles.

Q. And, you think that's bad?

A. Well, I had a fri.end. He was a big man in the telephone company. He was instrumental in out getting the neighborhood girl that got married that ended up with our wedding cake. But, he was also one of the biggest anti-semites I ever met. I went fishing (unintelligible), and he used to always bother me. His, by the way, his son is Jesuit priest. He's got a sister that's a nun. And, he's got a daughter that's a nun. One son that escaped the priesthood and got married. But, he used to say, 11 Lou, when are you going to convert to Cathol icism? 11 He kept bothering me and bothering me and bothering me. Finally, I told him, 11 The day you become a Jew, I 1 l l become a Cathol ic. 11 He didn 1 t speak to me for about three years after that.

Q. Wow.

A. When his son graduated from the Jesuit order, they made a big shindig for him. I made a graduation diploma cake. Like a jelly roll it 1.ooked. Made it look just 1 ike a rol 1. And, he says to my wife, 11 Wel 1, I'm having this one, that one, this cardinal, bishops. They' re all coming down to pay my son respect. And, I want you and Louie to come down. That night, we' 11 forget who we are, and what we are, and we'll all be brothers and sisters. 11 So, my wife turned to him and says, 11 Ray, (unintelligible) the day. You don't have to wait for that day, as far as I'm concerned, we're always brothers and sisters. 11 She says, "After all, your.Lord was our brother. 11 That shut him up.

Q. Do you think it 1 s important for Jews and Gentiles to interact? I mean, do you approve of mixed neighborhoods and that sort of thing?

A. Yes. My wife is a 1 ittle bit biased with the colored people. She used to work in the nursing office for the county, and she ran across too many cases of the blacks. And, all the blacks came into her office ... were referred to her office who were either destitute, drunk, or just no good. And, I worked with some blcick people who if I could be as nice as they are, it would be a wonderful world.


Q. What WqS your reaction to the '64 riots here?

A. Well, I was in the bakery at that time. I had nephews doing wedding ca,kes with a revolver holster under his shoulder ... in a shoulder pad. They were special permits from the police (unintelligible) to go into the area. But, those riots were (unintelligible) affair. It was like a volcMo .. it kept bui Jding up, building up, building up (unintelligible). If you saw the way some of the colored people acted. The bLack people are worse slave masters than the whites.

Q. Do you think that What do you think caused the riots?

A. Well, not having jobs, leaning on street corners because all the playgrounds were.closed, no place to go, and it only takes a match to start a fire.

Q. Do you think that there was outside agitation?

A. Maybe there was; I don't know.

Q. Do you think that there were anti-semitic overtones to the riots?

A. There may have been some. Just ... the first ones that they take ... vent it out on is the Jews. Jews ana Puerto Ricans. I don't know who they hate more: Jews or Puerto Ricans. We have a lot of blacks here.

Q. Do you think that ..

A. They don't want to be cal Jed Negroes or colored.

Q. Yeah. bo you think that the Jewish stores were hit just because they were in the neighborhood or because they were specifi'cal ly Jewish stores?

A. I think they were hit because they were in the neighborhood .

Q. What kind of experiences did you . you have of the Joseph Avenue area? here?

. I mean, what kind of recollections do Just over the course of your whole time

A. It kept changing ... the changing started when I was a child.

Q. What kinds of changes? I mean

A. Well, the Jews that were ... had a I ittle money, moved out of the area. And poorer Jews moved in. When the poorer Jews moved out, the Italians came in. The Italians moved out, the blacks came. And. after the blacks, the Puerto Ricans.

Q. Did you feel sorry for ... were you sad at the Joss of Jewish culture in the Joseph Avenue area?

A. It used to be a shopping district by Jay Street ... the Italian people. Now it's gone.

Q. Did you ever go to Cohen's Restaurant?

A. Oh, yes. know Jack Cohen very well.

Q. What was it like?


A. Big restaurant.

Q. Was it like a meeting place? Is that where everybody got 'together?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you go down there often?

A. Quite frequently.

Q. So, .1 mean, when that kind of thing was lost, did that bother you? You know, that those sorts of

A. Well, what bothered me . to have Fox move the (Unknown) so far away from me. Where it couldn't be reached by the ordinary person.

Q. Okay. I guess I'd like to end this off with just talking about the kinds of things you do here in the home. What sorts of activities are you involved in here?

A. Well, I'm editor of the newspaper. Have been for four yec!lrs. And, partici-pate in nearly everything when my headaches don't bother . :, . don't effect me. Now you 1re rea 1 good medic i.ne. I had a· headache and yru chased it away.

Q. Thank you.

Q. How often do you pub! ish a pc!lper?

A. Once a month.

Q. And, do you . what kinds of things get written about?

A. There a couple in the bottom drawer of the little table. counci I started.

Q. Excuse me?

A. Thc!lt's why the Citizen's Council started.

Q. Oh, what kind of work does the council do?

That's why the

A. Takes up the grievances, takes up problems: We have a few problems 1 ike: coffee; we don't get hot coffee. We made an issue of the problem for four years, I think we' 1 I have to bury it.

Q. Why don't you get hot coffee?

A. Wei I, they brought us little cups, and they were afraid that they'd be stolen. The first batch were stolen. They got another batch. The outside is supposed to be cold, and the inside is supposed to be hot. It kept so hot that the patients burned their 1 ips. So, they couldn't use them. And, they tried these paper insulated cups, and that didn't work out. I don't know what they're gonna do. think we're barking up the wrong tree.

Q. So, but this kind of thing it's . patient input, really, then. The people who I ive here get to have a say in what goes on?


A. Well, on this floor, I don't know what they do on all the other floors. We meet once a month with the head nurse of the floor, with the dietician, with somebody from social work department, and from rehabilitation departme~t. We can express all ... any grievance that we have. And, if they can't iron it out, we hear the answer. We' 11 take it to somebody above them. We ironed out one· thing that was very important about (unintelligible). (Unintel 1 igible) before we worked it out. And, we got out the same time the state issued a mandatory bill of rights. Their bill of rights were similiar to ours. Except that it had a little more ... it was a little more specific. We even tried to get keys. I have a drawer that could be locked, and I can't get a key for it. I'm getting tired.

Q. Okay.

END OF TAPE I, SIDE 11, INTERVIEW I

I Nyrny rn 11 I TH LOUIS FINTESHEL Tape 1 Side 1 Tina Isaacs … · 2015-04-22 · I Nyrny rn 11 I...

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