Ho'Oponopono Interview With Mabel Katz

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Copyright © Saul Maraney 2007, All Rights Reserved.

Ho’oponopono Interview with Mabel Katz



SAUL MARANEY: It is 9h35 p.m. in Johannesburg, South Africa. 09h35 a.m. in Hawaii

and today is the 12th of August 2007. This is Saul Maraney and I would like to introduce my

special guest, Mabel Katz, author of the fascinating book, “The Easiest Way”. The “Easiest

Way” is a practical guide for applying spiritual principles to get past blocks of obtaining what

you want in your life. It is based on Hoòponopono, an ancient problem solving art from the

Hawaiian culture, which teaches that life in fact can be easy. This is what Dr Joe Vitale,

the co-author of “Zero Limits” has to say about “The Easiest Way”. “This is the clearest

explanation of Hoòponopono that I have ever seen”. The book is in-depth and at the same

time concise, with examples of how to apply Hoòponopono in our daily lives. Originally

from Argentina, Mabel is a powerful woman, and in addition to being bilingual, Mabel excels

in two totally opposite careers. In her first career, Mabel has built a reputation of

excellence as an accountant, where she helps her clients with audit and tax problems, and

as a Business Consultant where she is dedicated to helping people create successful

companies. It is her second career that she says really turns her on, as a radio host,

speaker, author and Los Angeles TV host of her own show. On her shows, Mabel shares

her knowledge and wisdom of Ho’oponopono. Mabel’s first training with Dr Hew Len was

back in 1997, and since then, she has worked very closely with him. Mabel travels around

the world talking about her book, fascinating large audiences with her knowledge of

Ho’oponopono. For many years she has been a Foundation of I - Self I-Dentity through

Ho’oponopono seminar leader, and now, she has been given permission by Dr Len and the

Foundation to share this information independently, especially in the Latin American

countries. Mabel’s work can be found at www.businessbyyou.com and

www.hooponopono.org and www.mabelkatz.com.

All around the world, especially since the wonderful movie, “The Secret” came out, many

people are beginning to wake up, and I am especially grateful that Dr Joe Vitale has found



out about Ho’oponopono, and he is now letting the whole world know about it. He says that

Ho’oponopono is the missing secret. So, Mabel, please could you begin by explaining;

What is Ho’oponopono? What does this Hawaiian word mean? and What does

Ho’oponopono mean to you?

MABEL KATZ: Yes, well, I thank you for this opportunity Saul. Hoòponopono has really

changed my life. I did a lot of searching, I tried a lot of different methods and procedures I

would say, but I thought there was something missing. I knew there had to be an easier

and faster way. And I did find it in Hoòponopono, which is a very ancient art of problem

solving. Basically, Ho’oponopono means how to correct an error. And errors means all

those memories of opinions and judgements, all those programs we accumulate through

our life. You know when we think we are right, what we think is right and wrong, what we

think is correct or incorrect. And basically, how to let go. I define Hoòponopono as the

delete key in our computers.

SAUL MARANEY: Yes…

MABEL KATZ: And when the programme comes out in the monitor, you can just use

Ho’oponopono, the delete key. Everything that doesn’t work in your life, you can just erase

it. That is the possibility that Hoòponopono is giving us. And basically Saul, when

something comes out in the monitor, you know, that doesn’t work, I mean it is not the

monitor, it is just the programme, so we can talk to the monitor all day long, but the monitor

cannot do anything. We just need to go to the delete key.

SAUL MARANEY: Right, and would you please describe some of the practices that you

did before you discovered Ho’oponopono ten years ago?

MABEL KATZ: Yes, well I did a lot of things you know. I was trying to do channelling, you

know, because I wanted to hear and I wanted to see, and then I tried a lot of different

meditation techniques. I went to a lot of different kinds of seminars, where they use



different kinds of methods, but especially, and what it brought me to Hoòponopono was

Re-birthing. Something that has helped me a lot before, trying Hoòponopono was Re-

birthing. Re-birthing, because Sandra Ray, one of the founders of Re-birthing, actually she

met Morrnah Simeona. She used to bring a lot of Hoòponopono to her training, and that is

how I found out about it.

SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And in your book you talk about the fact that happiness only

comes from within. When you found Ho’oponopono, How did you know that this had been

what you were looking for?

MABEL KATZ: Well because, you know, whenever you do a training, you do something,

you look like you are always missing something … and that there is always somebody else

out there that knows more than you. In Ho’oponopono, it is about you connecting directly

to The Source. The Source that created you. The Source that knows you better than

anybody. The Source that is inside of you, and has all the solutions to all your problems,

and all the answers to all your questions. So is not about depending on anybody else

outside of yourself, it is just to be remembering. Hoòponopono I always say, reminds

people of something they forgot. The power we have inside of ourselves to change our

lives, without depending on anybody else outside of ourselves.

SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And from reading your book, “The Easiest Way” and the book

“Zero Limit” and listening to Dr Len on “News for the Soul”, a big theme that comes across

is the idea of taking 100% responsibility for whatever appears in our lives. Can you expand

on this and really explain what happens when we do take 100% responsibility?

MABEL KATZ: Yes, yes. Saul, I say 100% responsibility is the easiest way, that’s the

name of my book. Because we realise that again, like I said before, that which we created,

we can change it. We always feel belittled, we feel victims, we feel poor us because we

are always thinking that we depend on this, on somebody else to change, somebody else



to do, and things like that, in order for us to be happy. Here it is about that I created it, I

can change it. I have all the power to change it, and it is all up to me. I do take 100%

responsibility for things to start changing. I change, everything changes. So we are always

at work, always in on the family, always waiting for somebody else to change, or do things

for us to be happy, or for things to get better. And this is actually all the wrong way around,

because when we change, everything changes.

SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And Ho’oponopono has many tools to help us take good care

of ourselves, and that is something that Dr Len talks a lot about. He said that the most

important thing is to know who we are, and to take good care of ourselves. Can you

describe what this means? Does it mean putting ourselves first?

MABEL KATZ: Exactly! That is something Saul, which had meaning in my life. You

know, especially as mothers, we think. you know; “Well now we have kids, and now the

kids come first”. We do things to please people and when we learn to put ourselves first, to

take good care of ourselves, like I said before, when we change, everything changes. If we

are okay, then everybody is okay. I learned to take good care of myself, do what works for

me, so if I am okay, then my kids are going to be okay, and when we do things to please

other people, or we do things that don’t work for us, we have to know that if it doesn’t work

for us, it is not going to work for others. So in the case of motherhood, if I do things

because of my kids, and it doesn’t work for me, then its not going to work for my kids.

SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting… You make reference to the fact that the intellect

thinks that it knows what is going on and what is best for us, but it is only our heart that

knows. Are you suggesting that if something feels good in our heart, we go for it and we do

it, and if it doesn’t, we should leave it alone?

MABEL KATZ: Exactly, exactly. It comes more from our heart and our feelings than from

our intellect, because our intellect really doesn’t know. And one thing that I have learned is,



that you know; The intellect wasn’t created to know things, which we have misunderstood

somehow. The intellect is the part of us that has a choice. It is always making a choice,

you know? You can insult me and I can choose to take the insult, or let it go, or you can

give me a compliment and I can still choose to take it or not. I can accept it or not. So we

are always choosing. We just have to realise that we always have that minute or that

second in the day to choose. Things are going to happen; things are going to come into

our lives. What are we going to do with that? - This is the key. Are we going to let go, or we

are going to engage? Are we going to worry and think how we are going to resolve it, or

are we going to let go? And Ho’oponopono is about letting go.

SAUL MARANEY: Right, and the moment that stuff comes up for us, we can either

choose to let go and let God take care of it, or we can engage with our minds and thoughts

and try and solve it ourselves.

MABEL KATZ: Exactly.

SAUL MARANEY: Can you describe how you go about it when something comes up in

your accounting practice and what goes through your conscious mind before you can

actually decide to let go?

MABEL KATZ: Yes. You know regarding my profession, you know that being an

accountant and being a business consultant, I have to tell you that clients just come to me.

I have never advertised. I never tell people that I am an accountant. They find out. And it is

usually by word of mouth or people who refer people. And because they come to me, I

usually don’t say no, because I am thinking that The Universe is bringing them to me to

give me one more chance, to give me one more opportunity to do my cleaning, how we call

it in Ho’oponopono; To do my erasing. If people come with problems, it is within me, it is

not them. It is just the programs! So I just need to get to the programs. I just need to erase

on the programs. I have to share with you that I am right now in Hawaii, and not because I



live here. I live in Los Angeles, but right now I am helping somebody with an IRS Audit, a

Government Audit here in Hawaii. And basically, my specialities are a lot of this, because of

the results that I get by taking 100% responsibility. It’s not my client’s problem, you know,

this is an opportunity for me to clean, to take that 100% responsibility. And the results with

Auditors is amazing, because when I practice this as much as I can, I keep my mouth

shut. You know that one of the problems is that we talk, and that is what gets us in trouble.

I take 100% responsibility. I just do my cleaning while I am in the audit and everything, and

I can tell you amazing stories of the results that nobody can believe. But it is about letting

go, and letting God handle the audit instead of myself. Instead of me thinking that because

I have a degree or because I am smart that I am going to solve that. So the idea is how to

get out of our own ways, because we are our worst obstacles in our own lives.

SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And can you talk a little bit about the subconscious mind, The

inner child which holds all our memories and programmes?

MABEL KATZ: Yes, sure. What we need to know is that one of the most important

relationships we have to really take care of, is the one with our inner child. The inner child

is our subconscious, and this is the one that is holding all these programmes and all these

memories. So it’s about creating a relationship with this inner child, and you can assure this

inner child that you are not going to abandon him or her anymore. You are aware, you are

sorry for the times that you did. This inner child will actually do this cleaning for you if you

really commit. I always tell people that it is really important to ride one horse. No matter

what that is. For some people it might be going to the Church on Sunday and that is okay.

But whatever it is, you have to ride one horse, because otherwise that part of you gets

confused and when the problem comes out, what are we going to do? So if you are

consistent for example with this cleaning, this child, the subconscious mind that actually



does the breathing for you without you having to think, is going to do the cleaning too for

you.

SAUL MARANEY: But sometimes when we try too many different tools and we are

thinking about which seminar to implement, the subconscious child gets confused and

doesn’t know how to do it by itself as it regulates our breathing for us.

MABEL KATZ: Exactly! Because it says: “Okay, now that I have this problem, what am I

going to use?” You know, the lessons that I learned two weeks ago in that seminar, or the

one that I just learned? So I am not saying that this is the only way, but I am just saying that

whatever you are doing and it works for you, you have to keep doing that. So for me to find

Ho’oponopono, I am seeing that this is what I was looking for. It gave me a lot of peace of

mind, it gave me not only the tools, but it gave me the peace of mind to know that I created

it, so I can change it. I mean, that’s incredible. Because right now, we are completely

asleep, and we are think we are in control. We think that we know what is going on, and

we really don’t. We really don’t, and this is an amazing way of really letting go and letting

God. Realising that we don’t know everything and that only God knows.

SAUL MARANEY: I think that is very exciting. From my reading and what I have learnt

about Ho’oponopono, one of the things that really gripped me is that we don’t know what is

going on. And when our intellect tries to decide and work out everything and question it, we

can feel ourself going in the wrong direction. I understand Mabel, that the intellect cannot

communicate with The Divine, but it can make the choice to let go rather than trying to

solve all the problems by itself. Can you explain what happens when the intellect makes

this critical choice to let go?

MABEL KATZ: Oh it is really amazing. Your life really changes. You know, I needed to

understand it also. I have a very thinking mind, and I also want to know and understand.

But when I realised that I didn’t need to know anything, that I didn’t need to understand



anything, that is really when freedom came. And the idea is that what we need to know is

trust. The intellect cannot connect directly with God. This is something that the intellect will

never understand. And this is how Ho`oponopono works, or why it works. The intellect will

never understand it, and I always say to people: “Don’t try to understand it. Just, if it feels

right to you in your heart, you do it, and if it is not for you, you let go”. But the intellect will

tell you a lot of things, and the intellect doesn’t know what God is. It has never seen It,

never communicated with It, and never will. But the inner child, the subconscious mind

knows exactly. So when you can connect with this, and you start having some

experiences, some things will start happening to you, that you will think: “Wow!” Can it be

that we are so powerful that we can really change our lives like this? And the intellect starts

letting go, starts accepting. You know? Sometimes, even myself, you know, find myself

having this conversation with my inner child saying: “Hey, we have seen how God works,

we know that God can take care of this. If this is maybe too big or too much for us, why

don’t we let go?” Why don’t we just concentrate on doing the cleaning and allowing God to

take care of my problems? So you know, the times that I see this working the most is when

I really let go. So I consciously, 100%, just let go, and I trust, and I trust that maybe it will

not come in the form or the time that I am expecting it to, but that God knows exactly how

and when is the perfect time.

SAUL MARANEY: Phew! So we think we know exactly what is going on and we tell God

exactly what we want, the colour of the car and when we want it, and when it doesn’t arrive,

we feel that God isn't listening to us. Are you saying that by having expectations, we miss

out on many opportunities that may in fact be perfect for us from God?

MABEL KATZ: Exactly, you know when all this started to make sense and started

working in my life, was when I let go of expectations. Actually, I was one of those students

that went to my teacher, and I said, “You know what? I cleaned and I cleaned, and this



doesn’t work”. And he didn’t say anything, but then he came back and said no

expectations. And since then Saul, is that I swear by Hoòponopono, because here when

we do something, we aren’t expecting certain results. And when you realise that you don’t

know what is right and perfect for you, and when is right and perfect for you, and you let go,

you will be amazed. You will be so surprised of the way that God works. Now sometimes

people perceive God as a concierge, you know, we tell him what we want, when we want it,

and when it doesn’t show up that way, we say: “See, we are not heard, or this is not

working.” But the thing is that everything that is perfect and right for us is right there,

sometimes right in front of us, and we don’t see it because we are stuck in the expectation.

We are stuck with; “How is it going to come?” And it doesn’t come that way, then we say;

“This doesn’t work”.

SAUL MARANEY: And you Mabel are a business consultant, and an accountant, and I am

sure that all of this was a little bit weird for you too when you first started finding out about

it. But now you know in your heart that these tools really do work.

MABEL KATZ: Saul if it feels weird for you, for me it is still weird. You know, for my kids,

its still weird. Like my youngest son said one day: “Yeah mum, I know this is weird, but it

works.”

SAUL MARANEY: Can you talk a little bit about the basic Hoòponopono cleaning tools,

the “I love You” and that process, and how that works?

MABEL KATZ: Yes, yes, Saul, there are two basic and very important tools in

Hoòponopono like “Thank You” and “I love You”. So basically you know, you have heard

about loving your enemies and showing the other cheek. So Hoòponopono is about

showing the cheek of love, and also you know, thanking our enemies. Our enemies are our

problems; We are not cleaning not to have problems. While we are going to be here,

problems are going to come, so the idea is: What are you going to do when they come? So



really, problems are just an opportunity. So if you let go, amazing doors will open, and

amazing things will come to you, and you won’t have to go that way anymore. So its about

that we create with our thoughts, so that is why its so powerful that instead of thinking:

“How am I going to resolve this?” or “Who am I going to blame?” or “How come she did this

to me, that I am such a good girl?” If you get into just the cleaning in your mind, sometimes

you are not going to feel like saying “I Love You”, you know, to the other person, or saying

“Thank You”. But if you are just willing to repeat it in your mind “Thank You”, “Thank You”,

“Thank You” or “I Love You”, “I Love You”, “I Love You”. You know, even if you don’t feel it,

this works. You do not need to feel it. The “I love You” or “Thank You” are just some pass

codes. It’s a pass word to go into the programs. So the idea is that when things come, then

it’s just an opportunity for it to work, to take 100% responsibility by saying “I am sorry,

please forgive me for whatever is in me that has created this”. So we are not coming from

guilt, we are not coming from, you know, that we are sinners. We are coming from, that

there is a program. It is not us; it is just a program that is playing. And we have the ability to

stop it. When we say “Thank You” or “I love You”, then this is what we are doing. We are

taking 100% responsibility by saying “I am sorry. Please forgive me for whatever is in me

that created it”, and by just saying “Thank You” or “I love You” is that we are doing all that,

and something amazing happens. The program stops. But we are giving permission to God

to erase that. We are not the ones erasing, it but we are giving permission. And we never

know what we are erasing. We think we are working on our problem, or maybe on our boss

or somebody, or something someone said. It doesn’t matter what it is, it is just a program,

and the problems come only to give us one more chance. The chance to take 100%

responsibility and say: “I’m sorry. Please forgive me for whatever is in me that created this.”

SAUL MARANEY: Very nice, and we all have inner voices that talk to us, perhaps are

saying that we are not good enough, or the mental chatter. And I want to ask you about



going to bed. Is it very advantageous to use the cleaning tools as we are falling asleep in

bed so that we can clean in our sleep?

MABEL KATZ: Yes, I found that, you know, this cleaning can really go on for twenty four

hours a day, seven days a week and 365 days a year, and that is what we really want. We

want it to be in our hearts. I find myself even cleaning during dreams, you know, just

remembering the dream. But I also use it a lot to go to sleep, because sometimes you

know, like you said, those voices that tell us bad things about other people, the how

comes? or the worries that we have of: How are we going to make it tomorrow?” or “How

the money is going to come to pay the rent?” Or whatever it is. So I find myself always

going to sleep by cleaning. So whatever it is that I am concerned about, I am making sure

that, you know, I don’t get in the way. And sometimes you get this all in a dream.

Sometimes it gets resolved, you know, unexpectedly, and solutions just comes as I am

getting up in the morning or during the night or during the next day. But the idea is that we

want to do this cleaning all the time. You know, maybe saying “Thank You” and “I love

You” might look really simple and easy and yes it is easy, but what is difficult is how to do it

all the time. How not to react, how not to blame, how not to think. So this is something that

we want to do day and night.

SAUL MARANEY : Very interesting. So when we have a problem, we sometimes think that

we will let go, but we keep on worrying and we keep on trying to work it out for ourselves.

And Dr Len said that we can only serve one master at a time: Inspiration or memories. And

if we are thinking too much or worrying, does that actually prevent God from coming in and

helping us with our problems?

MABEL KATZ: Totally! You know the one thing that we can do when a problem comes out

is clean or worry. Because when we do that, we are actually telling God: “Let me handle it, I

know better.” Because what is happening, is that God is only asking us to take good care of



ourselves and say “I’m sorry for whatever”. We don’t need to know what this is. Nothing.

But that is giving God permission to take care of the problem. God gave us a gift, and

that’s free will. We are always choosing. We are going to do it ourselves, or we are going to

give it to God? Are we going to do it our way, or are we going to do it God’s way? So we

are always choosing, and God will not invade our privacy. So, we actually have to give

permission. We actually have to ask. We actually have to know that God will help us, or He

will not, because He has created us. So the idea is that as soon as we give permission to

God, you know, this is not about today. It is not about “go away, I am working”, or “This is

my nap time”, or “We are closed, come back tomorrow.” This is something that works 24

hours a day, and it has to work. It is a natural law of The Universe. When you ask, the

answer comes, when you knock, the door opens. There’s no “I don’t feel like it today” you

know?

SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting. Mabel, do memories get erased every time we use

the Hoòponopono cleaning tools?

MABEL KATZ: Can you say that again Saul?

SAUL MARANEY : Do memories get erased every time we use the Hoòponopono

cleaning tools?

MABEL KATZ: I think, I am sure that there are other methods. I am sure people probably

that are listening have different ways of doing it. Maybe they are doing it in a different way

and they didn’t even know they are actually applying Hoòponopono. I think that there are

different ways of doing it. But, definitely, there is no way that thinking or worrying will erase

programs, or something like that. It is about letting go. Somehow you find that it works for

you when you are really letting go. Letting go, especially of opinions, judgments, you know,

ideas. The thing that we would rather be dead right, you know, have the last word. It

doesn’t matter that we are dead, but we were right.



SAUL MARANEY : So when Dr Len cured that entire ward of the criminally insane at the

Hawaii State Hospital in the late eighties, using Ho`oponopono and not seeing any one of

them on a one to one basis, was that because he took full responsibility for whatever he

saw in those patients, knowing that in some way a programme or memory in him had been

responsible for creating it, and by him opening up the door for God, that is what cured

them?

MABEL KATZ: Exactly! What happened is that he knew that the problem wasn’t with the

other people, you know on the patient, but the problem was with him. The problem wasn’t

the criminally insane people, it wasn’t him, it was a program. So somebody had to get to

the program. Somebody had to work on the program. “Whatever is in me that has created

that”. So he would work on these programs even before showing up to work, then showing

up at the hospital, you understand? He cleaned during, he cleaned after, and he didn’t

even work directly with the patient. It wasn’t like a usual session, you know, where he sees

the patient and he is listening to their stories or what they have to say. But working on

himself and the memories, and the programmes that caused them. Whatever got erased

from him got erased from them too. That’s why this thing is so important for family relations,

or any business, or whatever. Whatever gets erased from me, it gets erased from

everybody else. That’s the beauty of it. So you can do this work even from home, you

want to do it from home, you want to do it before you get up, you want to do it before you

pick up the phone to call back clients, or call them first. You always have to be constantly

cleaning. Be cleaning always. You don’t want to wait for something to show up to do that.

He (Dr Len) didn’t have to be in the presence of the patients to see the changes, because

when he took responsibility and erased those programs, they got erased from the patients

too.



SAUL MARANEY : Very interesting, And Mabel, what is the message here for Healers

from this story and from what Dr Len achieved? Is it that they have to work on themselves,

and clients actually come to them so that they can work on themselves to heal the clients?

MABEL KATZ: I would say that it’s about knowing that the problem is not in the patient.

The problem is not, you know, out there, or your kids or your boss, it’s just a program. So

when you take 100% responsibility, again, you can erase them before they even show up.

So then you are going to say: “Oh, this doesn’t work”. But what happens is, that you don’t

know what would have showed up, if you didn’t do the cleaning. You are never going to

know of the things that you avoid from coming, that you prevented from coming because

you did the cleaning.

SAUL MARANEY: Whew … so Mabel, each time Ho`oponopono is used and you make

that conscious decision not to engage, even though we may not see any results straight

away, we could have been preventing something much worse from coming that has been

cleared now.

MABEL KATZ: That is a lot of my experience, a lot of my experience. And sometimes its

by confirmation, you know, in the meditation or something like that, things come what we

think are bad, then we realise what could have happened without the cleaning. And believe

me, it could have been much, much worse. But again, it’s that judgement part of us that

thinks it knows or thinks that it knows what it good, and what is bad.

SAUL MARANEY: So only God knows what memories we are letting go of when we

clean, and I have heard you and Dr Len talk a lot about it, and you said again today, that

we don’t treat God as a servant, but we allow God to help us. When we allow God to help

us and those memories get erased, can you explain how that works in simple terms so that

I can better understand that?



MABEL KATZ: Yes, again this is not about understanding, because the intellect will never

get it. Okay? So we have to forget from that part. But basically, like I said before, people

that come into our lives, its just the person, you know, pushing the buttons, or you know,

that person triggering something in us. They are triggering actually, those are programs in

us that we play. Now, those programs are always playing. Sometimes we explain it like this:

If you can imagine a CD playing music. So we hear, and we know that that’s a problem, or

“How am I going to pay the rent?”, or “What am I going to do with my kids that don’t listen

to me?”, or “What am I going to do with my boss that is not treating me well?” So no matter

what it is, is just what we call a memory. It’s just a CD playing. Now sometimes the CD

player has the volume down, so we are not consciously aware, but the problem is already

there. The data is always playing, the CD is always playing. So somebody comes and

suddenly puts the volume up, we are aware that something has come up, and we think that

is what we are cleaning with, that person or that situation. But we never know. Something

just triggers, it just makes us more aware. When we just go to the cleaning, always, always

that CD is stopped. Always! Even if we cannot hear it or feel it, even if we cannot see it. We

cannot tell. It always stops! That it is God erasing, and God knows what we are ready to let

go of at that time. So, a lot of those CD’s or memories are interrelated. So maybe when

you say “Thank you”, I don’t know, maybe thousands of memory go right there. But that,

only God knows. Only God knows what we are ready to let go of. Some people say: “How

come you can’t let go of everything at once?” Yes, God could do that, but our bodies are

also memories, so we will go like “poof”. You understand what I mean? We couldn’t take it,

if all the memories would go at once.

SAUL MARANEY : So Mabel, that’s the secret to seeing Ho`oponopono working in our life

is really not expecting to see any specific results, and admitting to ourselves that we don’t



know exactly what is going on in our life, and really allowing God to guide us, and leave it in

His hands.

MABEL KATZ: That is my experience Saul. I always tell people if I could have written the

list of the things that I wanted, I would not have a quarter of what I have right now in all

areas of my life. So, the idea is that you will love to realise that there is somebody that

knows better than you, and that knows exactly what you need, and when you need it. So,

somebody is always taking care of you, protecting you, if you allow it. If you give

permission. So I feel it, because I also did a lot of those seminars when you write the list,

and also when you have to feel like it is already happening, but what you need to realise is

that while you are doing that, there are millions of memories and programmes running at

the same time that you are thinking positive. And at the same time that you are making the

list, and at the same time that you are feeling that you already have that car or that you

have the house or that husband or wife. I mean, we are not in control at all. We fool

ourselves thinking we are. And I agree that those things work, because we are that

powerful. But what if I ask for something that wasn’t right for me? Why not let God do it?

God can do that for us if we give permission. And when you let God … God knows better

than us. Again, when we need Him, then we need to let Him in. So, we need to go back to

being like children, like it says: “To go back home”, we need to become children. We need

to start playing more. Again, let go of so many opinions and judgements, and allow God,

and play with God. Ihaleakala says that God has a great sense of humour. It’s great to

hang out with God, you know? So the idea is that we need to go back to Him. We need to

go back to that. We need to also stop thinking that there is somebody out there on the

earth, that knows better about our life. Nobody does!

SAUL MARANEY: And in your book, you talk a lot about being happy and grateful, and

what wonders that works. How does that tie in with Ho`oponopono?



MABEL KATZ: Well basically, looking at things and being grateful because you know

there are opportunities for you to clean, and that if you clean, you will be highly rewarded in

every way. The idea is that even if you don’t feel attracted to Ho’oponopono, I always said

that going to the gratitude state where you can … and I know there are a lot of things that

could be happening to you, but I am sure that if you pause for a second and you say: “What

are the things that I can be grateful for?” – You will be amazed of the things. And usually,

that energy of gratitude, definitely puts you on another level. You see, we always want to

be on a level where we are above our problems. And we don’t engage, and we don’t think

we are the problem. We are much more than that. We are above that. So gratitude usually

puts you above the problem, so that you can better live, you can have a better life, and you

can have a better understanding. I always say; “You have the possibility of going to the top

of the mountain and seeing the whole picture”, but we usually, you know, engage with the

problems, and we forget to go up to the mountain to see. We forget to go up to the

mountain to reflect or to have a better view, or to have a better understanding. We just

engage with it and everybody that shows up in our lives.

SAUL MARANEY: And Dr Len says that if we could see what our cleaning was doing,

then we would never stop doing it, because we are unaware of what we are surrounded by,

so we should be cleaning 100% of the time. Is it because Mabel, that if we are not cleaning,

then automatically we are going to be coming from memory and almost self-sabotage

ourselves?

MABEL KATZ: Well that, and also Saul, we have to know that there are energies around

that, that maybe we are not aware of, and maybe they are not influencing us positively. For

example, you know how a lot of people could be depressed and they cannot explain it?

Maybe, you know, they are attracting certain energies around them, that maybe they are

not aware of, that could be feeding from that depression. Sometimes these entities feed



from our sorrows, feed from our anguish, from drugs, from alcohol. They are usually very

much around that emotional environment, because they feed from that. So sometimes we

don’t know how to get out of certain feelings or states, and the cleaning does that. The

cleaning cleans with all of that. So, there are two things that I always remember for myself

and people like me, that maybe we call ourselves normal you know, but we cannot see

them, and maybe we are not aware of those things around us. There are two things that I

always remember: One is that if we only knew what happened every time we say “Thank

You” or “I love You”, or every time we use any of the tools of Hoòponopono, we would

always be cleaning, and if we could really see the way that God works, we wouldn’t stop

cleaning. Now the other thing is like you mentioned, because we aren’t aware of the things

that are around us, and we are only aware of minimum stuff, like people who come into our

lives, you know? But if we would be aware of other things that we don’t see that are around

us, we also we would be cleaning on those problems.

SAUL MARANEY: Whew, and I think you said before, that Dr Len is able to see a lot of

these things that you said that us normal people aren’t able to see, and we are very

fortunate that we are not able to see them, because I am sure its quite frightening what is

out there.

MABEL KATZ: Yes, well sometimes when I mention that to him, he says: “You don’t want

to see. It’s really scary. It’s better that you don’t see it.”

SAUL MARANEY: So Mabel, what you are really saying, and I have really enjoyed

speaking to you, and it’s really put more into context the whole Hoòponopono, and how to

use it in my life. Is Hoòponopono about being at peace within myself no matter what is

going on around at the moment, and actually a wonderful tool to keep us in the present?

MABEL KATZ: Yes, exactly! You know, I would like to remind you of what I told you

before. We don’t know, no expectations, the idea is that whatever is right and perfect is



going to come, and how important it is for us to know, again, that we are well taken care of,

and that no matter what it is, it is not that we are not going to have problems, but we do this

to be at peace no matter what is happening around us. So the idea is that, no matter if we

have a sickness, or we have money, or not, or whatever situation it is; How to be at peace.

Because the problems are going to come anyway. Hoòponopono or no Ho’oponopono.

But now we are going to see them as opportunities, and we are going to be able to let go

faster and easier. And the idea is that as we do this, we are going to feel at peace, and we

are going to be at peace. Because it is not that we need to do something, or there is

something that we need to know that will save us. Again, we are taken care of, we are

protected.

SAUL MARANEY: Great, and I know that you touched on it earlier but following on from

the point you just made; Is Hoòponopono a meditation within itself, because people ask

how does meditation tie into Hoòponopono, and meditation has become a big thing around

the world, is this Hoòponopono something that can replace meditation?

MABEL KATZ: I don’t know that you can replace it for people that do their meditation that

works for them. What I found is, I didn’t find a meditation that will work for me, that will

really calm my mind. I actually couldn’t let go of all of myself. So for me, Ho’oponopono is

24 hours mediation. This is how to work by God’s hands all day long, and not just fifteen

minutes in the morning, and fifteen minutes in the night. This is how to work with The

Divinity all the time, all the time. And again, it’s like being walked by the hand of God, and

its being able to do it God’s way, not my way.

SAUL MARANEY: And I like in Dr Len’s online speech “Who’s in charge?”, it’s quite like

what you are saying, that when we actually say to The Divine “I am sorry and please

forgive me for whatever is going on with me that I am not aware of, that is causing this

situation”. It’s actually a wonderful relief to know that we don’t need to know what’s going



on, and God can take over from there, because by intellectualising it, there is just

absolutely no answer that way.

MABEL KATZ: Oh yeah, and again, that will also give you a lot of peace of mind. So we

definitely don’t know that we don’t know, and we need to wake up.

SAUL MARANEY: So a big part is, as you say, to really not have expectations and to not

treat God as a concierge. What is the difference Mabel, between letting go and letting God

and giving up? Some people think that by letting go and not thinking about that wealth that

they want all the time, that they are giving up. What is the difference between the two?

MABEL KATZ: You know there is a great poem that really defines that. Letting go is

everything just started, letting go is all the possibilities that I have. So if you allow me I am

going to email you this poem, and maybe you can read it.

SAUL MARANEY: I heard that poem on Joanie interview with you and it was excellent. It

is a wonderful poem!

MABEL KATZ: I think you can read that poem because that will tell you everything about

what really letting go is.

SAUL MARANEY: Great!

MABEL KATZ: Letting go is magical, letting go is magical, we just started, and everything

is possible.

SAUL MARANEY: And Mabel, I don’t know if you personally have received rude emails

about how Ho`oponopono works, or if you try to explain it to someone else, and they come

across as if they don’t believe this stuff; Is that a programme within us, that they are

reacting to?

MABEL KATZ: Everything is a program. Everything is a program. So the idea is that we

take 100% responsibility, by saying “I am sorry, please forgive me for whatever it is in me

that people are reacting to, or people don’t believe. And you know what Saul?



Hoòponopono is not for everybody! For example, when I am invited, you know, to have

this moment with you, in conferences, you know I travel quite a bit, giving conferences in

Spanish in Latin American countries too. I am not trying to convince everybody. I always tell

people: “If I get one of you to do the cleaning, whatever gets erased from you, will get

erased from me”, and that is why I do it. Now for me, I always tell people on radio, an on

my TV shows, I always tell people: “I feel my mission is to wake up people, and then you

have to find your own way”. If it is Hoòponopono that’s great. Hoòponopono is not going

to hurt you. Hoòponopono will help you to see more clearly, and maybe confirm that you

are on the correct path, or that you found your way, or whatever works for you. But the idea

is that we need to wake up. No matter what we do. Like I said before, if you find it in the

Church, then go to the Church, but lets do something. We cannot continue feeling we are

poor victims, that we don’t have any power to change our lives, or that we depend on

somebody else or certain circumstances to be happy or to change our lives, because it’s all

up to us. You take 100% responsibility, and as I said before, if we created it, then we can

change it.

SAUL MARANEY: I think its very interesting because Dr Len, I heard him say, that he

actually welcomes those rude emails or people that are rude to him, because that’s the

data that he wants to delete, which is very interesting, and a wonderful way to look at that.

MABEL KATZ: And something Saul that is very important and that I learned also from Dr

Len, is that the intellect is cruel. The intellect kills really. The intellect will do whatever to be

right. So you actually don’t want to fight against the intellect. So you see, you come from

your heart. And definitely, we can use Hoòponopono for bad things too, because that is

the power that we have. But the idea is, in the other things, there is a lot of manipulation of

owning 5% or 1% of what you think you are in control of. Because like I said before, that

while you are doing all those things, how many bits of information, how many programmes



are running? Do you understand? We are not in control at all. So with Ho`oponopono, we

don’t visualise, in Ho’oponopono, we don’t give orders, or write out the things we want. We

just come from: “I don’t know anything. You know better. Please help me.”

SAUL MARANEY: So we come from finding out who we are, and connecting to our

subconscious mind, which is the only part that can erase, through The Super Conscious

and The Divine?

MABEL KATZ: Exactly! The process is that the intellect has to make a choice. The

intellect is making the choice to let go. That is an order to the inner child, and the inner child

makes the connection with the spiritual part of us that is perfect, because we are perfect.

Okay again, what is not perfect are the programs. And we do have a part in us that is

perfect; The Super Conscious. And that part of us knows exactly who it is, and that is not

run by problems or things. And that is the part, that kind of defines our petition, and resents

it to The Divinity. Then it’s The Divinity, the Hawaiians says that it is The Manna, which

erases all these memories and all these problems.

SAUL MARANEY: And that is the only part and the only thing. It is only The Divine that

can erase the programmes, and not ourselves, which we sometimes think that it’s our own

achievement and that we are doing the erasing, but we are not.

MABEL KATZ: No, we are only giving permission. We are only giving permission to stop

the tape, and to erase it.

SAUL MARANEY: Great, well Mabel, I really want to thank you once again for speaking to

me this evening and I really enjoyed it, and your wonderful answers made me even better

understand Ho`oponopono. And I hope that this will enable a lot of people to spread the

word, and to learn about it, and to help themselves. And I would like to leave you with that

thanks again, and we really do appreciate it, and I hope to speak to you again soon.



MABEL KATZ: It’s been wonderful and like I said, I am always happy to be able to share

this, and if I have one second more, I would like to finish with, I am going to read you

another tool of Ho`oponopono; It is called The Peace of “I”.

SAUL MARANEY: Okay…

MABEL KATZ: And this is great to close anything, a meeting, a day at work or a meal, or

whenever you feel inspired to. You can just repeat the - The Peace of “I” in your mind, like

“I love You” or “Thank you”.

SAUL MARANEY: Okay…

MABEL KATZ: The Peace of “I” says; Peace be with you , All My Peace, The Peace that

is “I”, the Peace that is “I am”, The Peace for always, Now and forever and evermore. My

Peace, “I” give to you, My Peace “I’ leave with you, Not the world’s Peace, but only My

Peace, The Peace of “I”. - So God bless you, and thank you so much Saul for this

interview.

Ho'Oponopono Interview With Mabel Katz

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Transcript of Ho'Oponopono Interview With Mabel Katz