I

Hearst - Senator Humphrey Interv ew

m. llEMl T: Senator Humphr y, how long do

you r ally th n th 5 ba .tl over th • • • over the de

1a 0 0 to 1 st- o r t ltl gre Q 1on s ue .d! .;o1ng

to 1 t? All su er7

SF.N. lUt.· PH • . No , I doubt that t will go . ll summer unless th ng tJ n foft tho or e uch more

than I ·o1 ld exp~nt for tlw wonse . I th1nk we ou ~ht

to b able to compl t ctton on the c1 · 1 r ghta bill

ome t1m 1n rly July . ~ow I t:h n}' that tha t mecns

that we wtll c omplet.o • • • t.h t we will ta e the f :-s t

ste p !'or Sennte >18S nge Ol:ltl t1 .. oefor ~ th 1st of

1

July • • e th~n wo ~d have to go to the louse and either

have the House oeopt the Senat a~end nt or go to

confer nee and co.e out or conference , nd finQlly et

a b 11 to the President ' desk . So 1 t ' s put 1~ in

July - at lea a ~ the early part or July before tre co~~-

vent on •

; ~ . HEAR T: Thnt the b ll u d go t p the

h t ~ ouse?

Yos, at.r .

SEN . HLlliHi Er; No , I think that#& owrht to

et the b 11 to t ... e • ~ to H~·1sc before t e Repuol can

CQnvent :on.

l - 2

• IiB R T: And s1gn~d, senled and wrapped

S • Htm PB f:f: I would hope eo. I th n

this •o ld be tho beet t1 n tor the res o 1 e ol.t!­

oal parties; I th n r 1 t ould be tho bes th~ng tor the

country; 1 t surely ould be th,be~t th ng or th

re~s because we have a lot of ork 1 ft to do.

Oon-

- R. UEJ BT: C n you olnl" fy- sometb ng for

me nd for poselbly our readers - th1e cloture bus -

ness, ho•,y doe a. it work; I De~ n how many people con

forco n end ,c de 'be to?

~- ··'• flU PHRE'!': The cloture 1U o, s in h t

we c ll Rule 22 of the Sen.tlte,. nd that .. "ule he been

od f ed now within r cent y&ars 1 lt reqtfres two-th-rds

ot tho e pr sent and ot ng. That do sn 't neoe snr 11

oen two-t ird of the 100 enators. Bee uoc it is

po lhlt that veryone ould not be pr sent on the oc­

cas_on of the cloture vote.

Mil. HElLttST: So then you' tl n ver get t.

s '~' N ... m.n:PHitli • so rou need two-thirds of

those present And ·oting. On n ~ssue as serious and

s controvers 1 1 e c 1 v11 rights, though ~ I think t.h t

ost .11 t.he senators would be presont . So you would

h v to expQe .. at ;h1s st~.ge t th SAnator Engle p~es ntly

1 - 3

• • • I l01tldn 1 t ex ..... ect too m ny o be b.ent so · therto• be

56 votea

Now eloture is obtolned by f rst !111ng a

clotur pet t1on wh~ch u t have 15 or mor signature ,

and then t mus · r .at &t t!1 desk for two oalendnr dta1S•

~~nr! t!"len n.tter th t it aut t ca~ly comes ~o s ote.

n. n ta'es precedence over n7thtng •••

anyth ng lse, and hat clott..re petl t1on outlines w1. t 1s

nc luded in the e lot"r&. You could sar, for ~xampl& , rou

oou.l~ r..nvo a ~lott.!re peti t1on on n s1nglo endmen t. You

o'.1ld h v a cloture petition on a block of mend ente or

you could hf.ive a olot'll'e pot t on, es we O\ l(l h "PO , on

•he b ll plus all runenc enta thtlt have been presented

nd read; t..'lat's ge .. erally tbe phrase thst's uae : . And

:pr~a ntly, lUI We are no r 8CUtUfin? th 8 her today, th re

nre about 100 amendments at the de k or the Sen te .

Onoe a cloture has been ~reed to, there arc 100

hours of debate ava~lable on th b ll and 11 mendm nts

thnt h~v bee prenented and read.

R. HEARST• One hour per ~nd~ent* 1s ;h t 1t7

hour per senator. l1.otu lly, some o£ tho a eodm nt{l

tb t aro at tbe ddsk are r-edundant; somn or them are

repetitive; there e.zte other mendmen.ta Hlent cal, so

OUt Of the total n~ bOt" ot 4\M(U1f3.t:.ents thn t the desk t

the present t. ime , ms ybo 25 or 30 ould be amendments

or some s1 gn.!..f1osn.oe . And t.h0$0 ~ld be debated.

MR.-GAI<:!FP (?): $1r. wh&t would 1ou say are

tho el:uino•s that eloturo woc1d be needed to foroo a

vote on tt: s' I

ell, I don t t:~ink the-re • a

Qny chance to paas this btll without cloture. I really

don • t believe there's any aecommodt.lti on that we can l!Jr­

riv t w1tb tne atrons opposition to this oill 1tho t

theF <f or oloture. ow we ma7 very well make sottlD tad-

justmanta in the bill 1n order to get the vote• thnt

a.l"e neee_aar to apply elot~e , but t ·e thought thst

sotnO peop.le had e&:~li&r tn th,-. year that we • d be &ble

to nave an extended debate on this b .11, clnd that we* d

sottt of r~oonc le ur- d tfercnees. and tn e we• d hsve

an up and down vote on a ser es of am mhnenta , I th ~nk

thllt's ver;r unlikely. I don 1t say it•s out of th~ ques­

tion , but it' unl1kelf.

l - 5

u: .. .'!.' IC.,: So et bas ••• tO l10S the WOl'd • • •

t ffoned tne resist neo or b~ought bout this cnang t

as 1t b en thtngs that a e happen n 1a th outslde

world 1n the e rt~1n axtr· .ess ( ?) on both ide or

whfl t h s ohall{;ed the t ·~n r ent nd mcod ot the • • •

t':rom the ea.roly o,pt1m sm that clo .ure would not be

needed?

SEN . H U' . HREY: ' o 1 l , . tho wer ~hose thau

th ~ ·1t clotvr

th t

lwars felt -hut the oppoa1t1on to this b:1ll, vm~.oh 1a

r1mar'ly 1n th Sout~,but not ent rely, . t t tn• op­

pos! t1on, p rtto 11 rly in t e Sou h , weu d have to u t

up a lLi s !;, d toh r ht . . The e are ust t;b. ,ol1 t cal

real tie of ":.h e1 tuetlon. And I d dn' t Yo &ct that

we'd ver b& bl. ~;() s• & ny arrong ent w bh the

So th rn · r OI' th t they would bao ' ott or t:.hat they

would y1 ld. And the only other c s tba . e ave

if they w.on't Ji&l , io to • • • by cloture.

o thor er t :.ose tha~ t .. r:ught th tt

rul& or tl'l& s n ,e, h1.oh 1na1 t t . t ;ro e n only

h vc two speeo.es one ch mdnd~ nt on n on - leg~slettve

1 - 6

day or on the bill on tlny one leg alstive day , that

you can wesr them down . But the ract ot the matter

is thrat you etln amend th!.s bill ad 1nf1n1tum.. You

can go on w1 th Just one word at s time in amend ll8

the J:Jill , and QU ou~d be here • • •

ornek t 1 t •• •

BE!i . BOVPHTIEY; And everybod:r geta two more

ahacke at each word, so to spe~k .

QUESTION: Does the fac t t t we hav a

qouthern Pr·e~:tdent going to at all -weaken oX" temper

tbe opposi ticn of peo~le 11kn Scoo tor Ruaeell?

SEi . H~ !i!tEY: Clln t just phase that questlon

in to an other t..'lOllgh t in r'ef· renee to your que& t: on. ( In­tner

ter~upted br bu~z-~, whjch 1&/ turnod orr. ) OQ1ng baok to your queot on , Mr . Canlff, ns to

what ~y have st1t!ened the oppos1t1on 9 I don ' t bel1e~e

there •s nythtng dev0loped th t baa stlt.fen~d . I think

it was here - th oppos1t1on wns here . There are $omC

out 1do developments 1n the ••• oh1 the let tel" wr1 tina ,

the prope.gandtat the give and ta.k or d_scus-s1on on th's

b1ll and I think the cot1vl tie s of Governor Wallace tl'utt

may have tJpeared to at rrcn the op_posit1on , but I doubt

that that really has been a t etor . ow • • •

l - 7

11 the time?

I think c.

!R. CHI·!": ••• Beneath t e aurfa.oe.

5S~t. HU 'HR .... :: Y ts, I th nk so.

KR. C NI · And the re ults er a y ng so ...

th ng Juat as ign !cant, t~ · t ~~ou h ven' t won anybody

over ••• you haven't WQQ ny hurd-cor ~outhePn rs.

SEN. u ' r·ar; ': llo,. I on•t th.nk we've woo

any h rd-oor& Southerners '"' don•t thL should "n .J.

xpo~~>ot to. As 'v said a number or t t $U, t .. n t

the Southerners that Q'* preventing the pass s of the

Civil hts Bill: they're oppo~ed to t~ but tr~y d n't

have thut ~ueh po· r. It we can e. the 81 other s no~ cr

• • • there a:re only 19 a• tors n h ~a outhern block ....

1f ~ ean get the otber l sonotor ~ 66 ot the oth r 61

senators to br'ng clotur t. ll and the a~ndments

ertain ng thereto, •e es.n then ote up or down e Civ 1

d y pos1t!on in not only for the C•vtl

!lights progra # Q't..tt, ore 1 1 ortantly, ror the rlgh to

vot on the Clvil :i ... ght B ll, B th ... we oa Ol"lc Cl.\r

w1ll on tht:J bill. Tber 1 bo mendmonts that w ;tl

pas • In tac4,., I think t..here u· b 0 :t but we e n't

1-8

do nyt.h n unt ,.1' we x• ~all 'i t round to wher you c n

brln olot •ro.

ow, r qu on, lt, 'b1l t; t"l& role of

h rn n trOT!l th Il th p "09.-

ney, I kno th p Jo!m on. 0 very close

era ~"l 1 elat "'onsh tps tth a numb r of our ..,enato_

• • • or S n .... or • • • from t e s th • :t<.,ra .kly, I

"'o tdi b t this 1 n 1 t tter or p r nnl ~elnt on

Th se r matters o eo v1ot1on; th r tt r ct

pel ... t c l pol c 1 an !.. t ' o v 4~tf1cult for people n t e

fioult for a ro n 1 1.t"e to un crs ~ net t! es th tn · ..

Tber 1 no Senator, or xnmple, that I' More fond of

1n th·. od7 th n ~ n tor L1 ter H 11 o~ ~b ~a , nd

yet h •• ,

!H. 0 ~I!'!': ••• Ynutro not gong to ebange

h • • •

SE'··I • au .. rP 'R .. V!: I' not oin to chan e hi~ •••

• c T '. • .n Johnson lsn't co-~.ng- to ch ng ... •

h1 ! he ( lnaud blo) 'outh ( ln ud blc) p n ( ?).

s I don't t. nk Johnson's go .ng

tQ c~an htzn e· ... bar, but at I t 1n we hav to«p ct

n h1o 1 the Pres .d nt to "'o nll thut h 0 n at the

l- 9

rlgr.t t1 e to enco '~ e t.hos who II" not ... he So" thorners

to s~ nd up nnd be count d •

• R. Arl!FF : How ny wol' ld. you ay are uncert 1n

now, enator?

SEN. V. an : On clotur ?

M •• vAt i FF: Yah.

SE. HU'PHR:E..:: 11, gcneroualy, I'd say bout

10,. but the ...

• C/rNIF?: 10 or tbe 81?

e need bout 10.

"!ell, let put t this wa 1 •.•

JR. HEA~ ~T ( )~ You'v~ got abcut 50 •••

El'*. Hm PUREr: ! 1 d s 1 e hav about 55, 56

hat we can lock un for ur • In et, walt 1nute,

l w uld g further. e h v 5B t~ t e could p1.n down

!os:- sure.

pprox lma tely. (L ughter.)

.. tra ork right t tht s tL , ght b~ ble to get

up ns high aa 61, so I've been·· aytns a numb r of t1 es, nd I • h n th ts .... s a prettY' good so 1en ti: 1c ''guesst mEt. ·e"

~t it tokes about five more than p.r~ ently h ~ve ....

five to 1x mor than w pro entlt have, f . nd that a just

as r r

:;he •

ay oa from hero to t e ~oon 1 l you don

1 - 10

ell, but you c n be u~ thnt

they're not hard•coro S{)··tberne:rs ~ oth rwl. o you'd: now

you r 1 eked ••• ·

mr. • m. PHnfi:! : Oh, ll* look, th t• s just

..... op l.ress.

( Sev rol people tal,r at once.)

. • ~AI L F ( ) : ·~11, s 1,., there · o then a

pro es ton o tb. s. In other ords, nw:b r bel ve

tha~ a cart in mount of a nd nta or debate fl needed

to ela~ ry the bill, . ~o .. olve the • om eon 01 noe, nd

then a 't e pn · ses , ou get more herenc • I th t

1t'?

hope. I've

tried to • e'p h deb~te on a tr1endlJ, r specttul

' 1 ·n ot conduct. In other ord 1 e d&me nor of th

Sen t 1 1~portant to ow e eonduet ourse vea.

I h e felt th t 1r thee w s b tterncss and ·ranoor nd quarrel Q ness that bee too involved n th.e

Senate procedure, we wot.. ld not only bar cr up even

ore~so the S ·Uthorn ra - that is not ne . p ~rtant

s •hat'I• about to say ... namelr, th t you wo·· l

~r1v oft acme others th t ou 1&ht ult1m vely be

ble to obta n. Furthermore, I h ve known a nee t he

v r7 oe in . ... ng, and 1 s d so ln the til's t ope r nee

1 - 11

tb t I nr. de bet'ore pr ss and rae o en .. h1s b1ll,. end

telev eion, t' ut t oooper tlon of ·~'• D rksen was

a solutel1 es ent al. And he ha w nted to p&rmit

the S nate to take . o e ttmo on th1c bill. I bravo

been or the m~nd t at if th twa h s de 1r&~ since

W& n ed$d h!s eooperatlOD, that e o·-:.t to aooo~.o·

date .. ~ at requeat nd dee tre. I have a good working

reltlt on •p .lth "r. Di k~ n. I !s 18 a b!.-pert1

measure. Frankly, it 1 1 p aslble to ev o hop• to

pa s it without Re ubl.can coope~nt on -very large

Re ublloan coo:peratl on. And I hnve eo d since the

ftrst d y tbtit Pre:JidGnt ••• tb~ lste Pr()s dent

K·ennedy sent the

to b looked pon a

e e to Congress th t thls had

b1-pa~t1san or non-part1$.n

!').

effort nd if th:s blll pa see we wlll have an obl\­

gat1on to civ credit to the Republicans~ Just OS ·ell • as e do to the :De, oa t·. ts . I Cion .. think e onn cla l!l

s.ny ., a-rty 1n ••• you know, any p rty v tory a such.

' • can au.f!'er rty detent .. both

can't cla1 any partv v.etory.

iea - but you

tn .... s tA CKIN.: Senator, what 1a th~ t1mo

that we've tcknn 1th the Ctv1l ~Uchtn Bill 1·n the

Senate go ng to do wlth the rest of the .,rea dent's

l - 12

pro • m - the other r t e or s x Jor bill th t he

would 11 o se cted on, s e sai "wh th r up o

•• r•'?i . Ht 4 H b'V : oll , t tln t 1 th

I'v irtdic ted to you. 1

fir t, e w1ll be bl~ to

ron~ ••• if it eo~6 orr, yes,

dle tho r t ot t. · rogr f trl ut 1f

( l

_,..\ l

•••

• .

.... Befc 1 ot on •••

pte b r ••••

B fore the nd of . • y ar •••

SEt • • U .P LEY: Bo oro ~he end .... 1 1 4 sa:·,

b fore th .. e .. ocr· tJo C n\·ent n. But t it ~ce be. nd

the ••• ell, c.u lly, he Senate taelr ould be ...

l t • sf! , fin 1s the 01v1l R1gh ·;a 111 n late June or

can do th t , th n we o n mov on he rop ~~son ills, the overty b1ll, the ..., b 1~.

ome o'd to due v on, th t d t~

. . .. and the ••• and the ,. die re blll.

~o/jUt.-OJ'l' .... ON~ Are you pe king or the Oon i:T& a or

the S na 1

Bh • ..,.u UREYt 8o .. h. See the louse 1a mov1n" ell anyw y. Ae t.u ll , .... he llouse is far · e d on t

t no , but t t~ s b 11 ••• vil

l - 15

Rights 8111 is not out of th way unt l after the R ~

publio~n Cr-;nventlon , tben thore • a only on~ t"t n~ for

the President to do tf he wanta h!s pz~ogram. That• s

to call th s Congroese back into speel 1 sess!on. And

I t.~1nk members ot the Ccngr ss hnve to reeogn1za that

they may very: Y16U be here up until OotobEtr ..

MISS MACKIN: ftealletically apeek1n~, do 1ou

th.1nk ths 1JJ •hat'!t ~olng to happen?

SEN. H~:PURE~: This 1B a poss1b111ty. l

don't say it's only a poss1b1lttr; 1t ia a probability

unless we really have all the luc .. playing wi tb us on

C1v1l Rights .

~UE TlO : Because ~~t lly there isn't eny

time 1-mit to t;he t&rm of the Gong~esa, is tb.ere?

SSN. UWP!m:EY: Ob., no , indeed. Th• P-res dent

ean call us back 1n Soptembel" and would keep us h•ro

until October ant! let us bave n ltttle t1ute tor elect1on

and enll you baek the day after ele~t!on.

QUESTIO Sutnoalng you receea ror the Re-

publican Convent ton. Do :;ou ~t a re- •••

SE •• HUMPHREY: ••• Recon.ven!ng date •••

•••

Si"J{. R UJ;;P fi31:.'Y :

Convention.

a roconv~ntng dst • Then you ·~·

._ • fteco tUt ror the DemOC:t"Q tlC

l - 14

QUESTION: Suppose you ~on't set yourself one,

... hen he'll have to c 11 yo!.l?

SBJi. flU) ?!ffilr£: He '11 call us bstok., ye • But

I' sur$ th~t we would s t a r e~nven _ ng d•te if the

President asked tor 1t. nd I thin~ it ought to be

crystal clear th t i'resld$r1:t Jo mson 1a det rrn ned

to pasa. this Civil Rights Bill.

( tnaudlble r mark.)

SEtw. B ~p • EY: Jfo question bout 1t.

~"U TI:'J: Let ae ask 70u1 the :Ptte!l!dent has .

~de it errst l clear ••• 1 t'a ae eume he ns ~~de it

crystal clear, because he has~ I'm eerta1n tb t he has.

Now then, some ¢f the~lore4 leedere have de it fairly

elear, speo1f .c lly t t s.t t the e 1an • t aet ion on .... t,

there ~1~ht be some mo ~ r ugh atutt ·his ear •••

Mm-hmm- .

o~e d monstrat~ons and so on. If

the Seruate should te doi!l£:; what 1t th i nka 1s makins petty

• ••

good time on its ached 1le and th de. onstrot ons oa nd

they aot out or hand and th y had • • • 1 t ga '\l., e. bad •••

refl cted badly on them, do you think that could set the

back ny? Do yon tbinl: tho t wo 1ld have any mat r1 l ef­

fects, epee1f1cally1 on •••

th1 s

l - 15

S!nh nut l'HRE! · ,~~poratt . lJ •.• t tn P Ol" r:tly.

·"'~Uz:!. "!0 ; '1' 0 COU1<1 do the elves SOla& d ma.

•ot h& d of th

Yes~ let's ut it t h1s wa • l

th k we ought to ex JGet som dL.onstr tions oeeous thor

is a rever· ln tll& cott."l ... y. Some poopl c ll 1 ... the Near()

revolution. The~& ie a tnrest 1 th oount~y, nd 1

hav oeo articul ly conoornod bo~t rt r June loth,

nd h v& de no a eret of it, hen th ·oung men and

• n get out of ooll~g •

Now th se younG people n college '*r& 1deal1st1o •••

--..1·( ..... '/..:..) ___ : ••• Vola t. .. le " . . S m:·. H .P ' E ! • • • And I h nk 11 of us e-

e ber th~t there' bit o. the reb 1 n 11 of ua, you

xno • the e11ght a ... ·-unt of ~ebelllon gn1 t eonst tu ed

u 1hor1 ty and a gr at deal of rebe 1·1 on og ins t wh . are

eo le -·· young peopl think 1a njust c • They/a to-

t1o on thia.

?art he ore, t - B gener t 0

had a blg 1S$U to t hold ot. .e

th omb" d•m ¥natr t1on 11lc ·they'

tor ple. t had any pao xa h ven t

h re or '1 t;r'J t 11 tary -ove nt

h n ver reol1:;

v n • t h 4 fiB n

ln Br-itmln,

at o mov o t

suoll. Our oun

/

l - 1

eopl heve 11ved rett r..uoh the good 1 r t end the;r l"

" t , o nt no " e th y' re arcu ed,. l rge number o 1n

th c, nd t~e 111 jo n/oo-t! of thea de ona tr ona •

•••

1ns or wh t well U8 • ••

1te? Qh, ye , ver nd they ill Jo~ t in 0 of these de on vr' t on in

the p1dt of • tN'Gllf a o d, pe e .ful demons t~ t ca~ lnd t~en ornebody ets hurt. And hen so body geta ·hoved around. And then onebody 1 t..~ro·.n 1n Ja11. Now, I don't n -t: to be . unde strJod,- but I thi.nk tt' quite

( clear that n youn- erson w uldn_t mind be~ns n 1 a night or two ••• -it's ort ot, y u k o, 1t'a

• p rt or gro in up they would say. I don t gr~e w th that, but !' ol e no , you know. But I h ve joung son nd I know a l,_,t or youn

till d 1fi th t.1<)em. It • 8 Ol't of

o .le. ou ho e 1

lark. But ono '

t h ppen , som t n;t, h .1 ns to th • · s nd that' what I

orry Ol.tt . 'fhat 1! .. here 1 any disorder , tr the police do o to work on o ot the e yo·.;ng tet- and

it eo o~ tho ar thrown n j 11 bee use tll& -· O•

la ted so e loo. l or din nee or s om tate tstu~e, th n

l ... l'l

tuall hapnen. n , so uch b cau ot 1 egroee , lntt be-

cause ot :r"ung, energetic, vi tal, aet!ve, 1deal. s t ic,

and Bow I don f youn!'"f' wh1 te men omen. t want to .. av

thet PP n and that's why I have been try ng .. 6 a

Senatop 1 to try to aet an ex mple hf!11' 1n the Senate

ror rea~onable conduct, rai"ay, for ea~an~e, tol ranee,

pationce. Now 1t e can eonduet ou~ elves t~1a w .y, we

1 ~ abl to hold oft eo or these o~e rabid and,

well, d1so~derl1, d monstra ona.

• Yah, b t, Senator, th 1 re Just

l1$ble to t soonstrue ••• and l

right th~n~ as 10u outl~ ned it and you kno y~u•re doing

the rtght thing to Get 1 t t I'ou h the Oon esa, let'

ut 1t that w 1 •··

~E. U PH.EY: ~n t•s 1 job.

OE~~ l ~ : They m1• t m1soen tr~o ~ is w1aer

speed, as~t were, or yeur andling of it, a dr gg1ng

your fe-et. The., c ht · oon!ltru that.

or that lrendJ.

' UESTICN: Impatience there woul~n't b ~ust1-

!1ed becauee you know net you're do·ng, and certainly

yolire completel:y s,-n:p~thet1c to the1r oauae. 'i'h :r'd be

I '

l - 18

well dv!se4 1n your oplnlon, then, to know 1 ur aid ot the th n · nd !!no bat.' s go!ng n nd not be (in-audible) t 11.

Smt. UUMP .f:Y: Yeo, I huvo tl' ed to keep the leaders of the resp .. •nstble or sn !.z t ons and th re­epons1bl& leader into ed an to what we're tPytns to do.

-QUEST-ON : Yah, that's Whet I •••

sm. lRlf, ._, EEY· And I ant to m ke lt qutte

cletlr th t 1 m golng to do at I th ... n ~ need1J to be

done h_,re, !'ege~dleaa or oute de pres '~ea. I cannot ~ve everybody trrtng to be legtsl~ or, and I cannot

ow, I h ve y job to do; othe~

onle h ve t . e1r job to do. 11kc Roy ; tlktba of th Nat on l A soc - ~t on f r th

d e.neement of Oolore People; ho 1 a t-e.apons1ble,. r ne, and yet a 1ltt nt ~. Be's not ••• e' courageous, he 1e no weakl ng. I've v d.ted with Dr. Ktng nnd w1tll lr. Fa!'" ·p sne w tb •h1+-n&y '!oun or t e Urb n Le aue,

with Clarence ltchell ho 1& h&re th he Jfn CP,

wit our trie~s from Labor nd the ~~ny fro t1c ationel vounc"l on Olvil r'1ghts, nu - be ll eve

they- ~ no wnnt we•~e trying to do, and thy mu·t ••• •e

l... l9

muet have t'ai tb. you know. As I tell the • l tJOn't

sell them: out. y whole life 11'! involved 1n th s.

Tb~re •111 be no sellout. io 1 r~ gotng to do wh~t e

think 1s r1ght ~o be C!ono ond neeeeotll'y to be ne

in order to set a wor\1::·1ble, ~rteet!ve, en.fo,.oeable

bill.

( Cut 1n tape.)

QUES'I'!Olh (Inaud ble) .... cs.use here. Do

you • • • 't".at e · foct do you think Governor 'alleee 1e

hav~ng on the ant1•o1v11 r!Bbts vote? Ia .e eutt1ng •••

ill he m!iking another 11 tl.e. part r tor n_.elf? Is he

sl!cing th.a.t ottY ls he •••

SIN. HUlfPH.~Br : You man, :t s •••

f"U! T I ·;!f = W#Jll # how much ot tho vote tor

Governor Wallace ~t btl' e been getting tn pr1tnar1ee

1a an anti•c v!l -r1gllts vote? Alm.o~t ell, huh?

SEN. RUM HREY: Not ll. But I tll t n 1 t • s

f$1r to a y that ·. at ·allace has done 1s to demona trate

th t tbe o1V1l r _gn te seue, pro nd con~ . a not a seo­

t1 ""nal .tasue . It's an t -on{Jl1asue.

Q,!1E~TIOU: You can tlik 1 t up north nd et

somo there •••

L l - 20

SEt .. ilut• P'iREY : You get ., ople up no:-ti.1 tlln t

nre anti-c v 1 r1 hta, n<~, of coura , you ot a larger

jor!t t ha t ant.-~ ...... 1 r te bill <.own south.

Ther ar sotuall , I th1nk 1t1 s fulr to s cy, that n

the nat on th re ren't too many eople t tar re lly

nt1 c1v 1 r ghta. The~ • o lldn t wgn~ to b ltned • as

nti e1 11 r1 ts, but they wtll be anti the fed•ral

gov rn~ nt do1n nyth1n~ about 1t. Or they'll be onti

any pert euler apeci~l type o! le 1s1Gt1on. But th re

re peopl that :u t plain don•t like ot ro e and there

ar opl th t don't l1k$ Orientals, people th t don't

11ke So ndino. lans, (lnd so on. nd tho1 .~.

USS. IO : .... nd they te 1 th 1 ' ve a r ght

to s.y c.ha t and not have the SC)andins.v 1ans or Negro.cs or

Pak1 te.ni t lrust on tb , as 1t wer . •

SE:r. fi PHREY: That a the way the · reel.

Jlr. Wall oe h s us d ever•y pol 1 ~ c fil l tr·· e : in the book

to u ter t!~ is support. V.b t haa surprised m . in the

states that he e,eleeted 1 th~ t he didn't get more sup­

port, nd I o. not s 1 ng th!.e to in any way dt 1n1ah

tbe etteot or h1s elect on ••• or 1 mean or his votes

o:r or s sh owing.

Let ~ ve yo· n example, tb ro ret r e

o~ four stuteo of t e Un on 1n which you oan ent r

r

l - 21

Pr s :. t:nt1sl ri rJ and &l ost pred c t 1fh t w 11 hn

pen. On a t~te \1 consin1 Where you bav aay croa~­

over. The~e 1 no, wh t iO eall, t r closed primary

~ Re ublican• go lnto Democr ta, Democrats into th Re-

9Ubliean; !t'~ been done. Yet, you y re ber •nat

hap ened to '•enclo 11 ... 1~1 e one t... e w. en th y er•e _n

a 1 eonsin pr1 ry. I tllink you recall wh t hap ~e4

to ubert Humphrer• I do nyway .

Hero allGoe selected ·tacansin, n1oh ha

tha er os -over pos&1billt1e•; Indiana, that has a very

aubs t n. ... _al section r its stat that trad t o lly

ould tollo a ort of sout ern 1 adersh, p; and nr~land,

thatta. r .. lstor oally been kno11.1 a part eouthern., pert

northern. ~t as tro the dnys o th C v~l iar . ~o

h ere Nr . tel ee oved ! . to these et t s. (taught . • )

(Sever 1 . o le be; n t e.lk ng.)

SE~. HUJ.PHREY; Row, wh t h pp~ned to '. allac ?

He .oved 1nto these st. tee nd h doe n't run a ,stns . a

nst*onal c nd1date . He 1a ca pet1t!on ga t governor

1n two states nd a aena tor 1n :nf'>ther . ow, 1n eaoh a tfl t&

a · overnor la always under tr$ eodoua pressure , t-t1eu ...

larly o.s he tr . ea to 1'~~e1.aC revenue . And 1n olaoonstn Gov .

Reynolds ws.e no.t at the pe of hie p¢pul x-1 ty e a

overnor when he ran s the stand-in or t vor t son

l""' 22 '

for Prest~ent Johnson. ~o th t allao sot votes that

not onlr odin r ly o·ld co to ~nlla~e, and ther

wer otes in oons1n that would coo to all.aoe ••• ·.e

have people of th t persua 'on in 1nn sota nd every

othe state. H lao t..Ot 80 otea tb t w re eros ~

overs fr Re ~ubl ~o na. B lso received som vote

trom people th t sa d, ell, tll· ta good wa t r

to vell orr Gov. eynolda.

QUE TION: e.sn't it true that Q v. ?.elsh

alao (1n ud1bl ) •••

EN. HU PR3£! : T~u$. Exact y. The a

thing it1 Gov. '4sh. 1! ko 1n tho tnetance ot Reynolds,

Reynolo was beoktnc hi h ay propo 1, e. bond s ue

I b l"eve t wo..a, a tund rn.1 lng propo a.l for o. • 1gbw y

.ro a nd that prozra~ w· d re ted 5 or & to 1. 6

to 1. Dow Reyno~ s • • • elsh wa tbe v1 oti ot sales

tax opposition. it' qu! te re rkabl that

eynolds nd elsh dld s ell a they d1d. And .ot th

onl. that, but n/lnstane or Indiana, ~ elah aetu lly

eut down the ero nt e or vote th t llnce got out

or iaeons1.n.

(?) : T t • e right ... 1 t wa 3l, I

thin •

\

1 .... 23

• mn P . !. : Now in 1t'

y t to b een f1 · re n t 1 oe 111 do e well

as n nd1 n • 1ght o en do better. I

predicted ln Indian t. t he w ld Jet bo t 35, of

the ote. I thou.~ht ot the D moorat o vote, th .. 'a

·h t I thousht l WO ld t. ow he e a onlv re-

d:tc on u t t. ey re b I!J d on 0 , nowled of t . e

ol t .e 1' 1ctu e 1n th e • I a ot nt~-

o· 1 rl,- 1 d ou 0~ t , c :t ot e vot th t ( l-

1 co ot is con n. In t e I I '"old ob Alb~•ght,

itt n r ght ln here, th t ex ec d allaoe to -et

ab ut 30 ot t 10 total vote. 0 he t3.f or .e ocr lo vote, but 1 xpeoted 1 0 et b't

0 0 th total vote.

TI . ell, t la brJ. to the o-•

e 11 d 1te bac 1 h . If th r-e eh t. n- ~ ho

8 1t b ng tel h r by th le ial tore w:>rking on

th C v1l B 11 • • • ur a11 volu

u 1 ell, n he ntn h

1 ran tr ngl ag nst the b_ll. ere t . e e

n • a er ada. .. er • b .. !' 0 anda

tbro hout t countr . • T.is d t t ~ ut t

?

l - 24

h tevor they o 11 lt, a hundred billion doll r blnc~-

11 or bl okJaek ad. That stirred t p op;>o 1t1on, b 1t

the . a1l h s ohangec!. I think oar mail is ruo.:1tng no

bcu t 65-55 tor t bill; at the worse 60 .. 40; and t the

beat ome weeks 75-25. And tn!e 1s aha~ cter1at1o now

ln the Sene te.

Q~E~ ON : Ia that for the B 11 or 1s bat

ror the 1ntr1ns1o ••••

SEN. H •p REY . ' 1ell , they re ta kln about the

B1ll now. I ill say t 1 a ... . t in. oat ,st tes p ople are

ta!rly well Informed n ""Uner l bout the .B 11. llOl',

re ember this that no _group ••• large grouD or o1ti%ens

s ever tot lly info ed about b1ll. or xample,

tbG businees oo:cmrun1tt endorsed the tax b ll; th · d.1dn•

know wh twas 1n 1t. {~ . u~~te~.) They knew ••• they

re lly kn 1n gono~al 1lh t ·a t' in it.

.. (. >~-- . . It just sou ndee r:ood •

• And the 1 bor covement

11 ent,oree trequ ntly 1 bor • • • suppo et.11J

for labor, and they don't know whata in it. S

bill

ti 8

th.e:'l..t. be ga net one and e• don•t KnOW ree.ll all

t e t l.a th · 's tn tt. It 1 s a ge eral ttitude thet

l ... 25-

you get. But ou ~eke the p~ess n y pQrt ot the

oountJ.T. They've been running an anal b or the

.... lll, every aect on, and then they run n analysts

or t e c1vll rights law th t wo lreAdy hnve ln M1n-

nosota. ell, ot course, fr nklJ, t1~ bill that

we*ve got before us here 1s Caspar llquetoast com-

pared w1 th the civil r ghts la wa that 'lfe h ve in the

state ot ·1nneaota or in the stat ot 1seons1n, 1n

the etate of Iowa. p.raet cally everr st te north or

the Mason-Dixon Line.

Q.URS'l'IO. : Are public ococmodat ons in

th£ 31 tatea th~t already have •••

SEN. nu•.HnEYt 35 atntos thP.t lre;dy huve

1t ••• I mean, 32 ate es that already ve t. Excuse

m. 32 states and the D1atr1ct ot Columbia.

( t vhta oint someone int rrupts with an

nnudible remark.)

• .. Actuall1 ~ for all practical ,

pur oa&A 1 t 11ould apply only to the re 1nd&r. and ·one

ot the amendments that' e being worked on on this bill

right no s to take into eon~tderat on these at te

statutes, you see; to let the r1ret 1 pact of law at

the atate level; and then you'd .. ort of appeal up to

1 - 26

th eder 1 1 el. T ;is a one ot the pro o a.ls thal- 'e

be1ne g1 en eons1derct!on.

Q.lJE::.T !"\ : On tho us1ne a of g ttlng th re-

maln.ng x or aev n that ou'~e olng to eed to cl •

tur , t re you go n to b ve to g1v to get thoa

sl or sev n?

ell, thia is wha .. we •re talk1n"?

bout n the eonter nee~; t t •v been holrt1n t of n~ ch

·son~ pttople have been crl.t c l, ot which they've been ort ...

tic 1. I o•r::e to t.."i cooolu ¢n 1 na I ald some M. e

e rl1 r n our d1seusa1on here, 1 the ver first d y

ot th'a responsib111~y ofbe1ng th floor l dor 1n the

Ci · ll n~ hts B' ll that I hn to ve r. D rksen; nd

not only ~~ 1rkeen ·we're not talki ff H bert Hwmphrey­' j • Dirk n; we re t· lk n bout h t r. 1rksen re re-

sent • lie's the r"Ost e!feo t ve a ok sms.n ot the oppos -

t!on nd he ls the mo t effeetl spokesm n and tho

lead n;z ap~Jk:eS"can of th epubl o na 1n t~...e Conrr~ess ot

the United St tos.

d th $ non-part1 an 1seue. ~e nt

a oiill' hts bill. I 'bol1eve tills. I don't tn•lk

h 1 tooling at all.

en you sa• op t1on then,. y u

don 1 t mi:l n an anti •••

. '

1 ... 2"!

I SE! •• UMPR t~ : I don t mean ant ctv 1 r1w1ts, • I mean w re eo k1ng ~n the oroa. st to~rds a R puoltoan

nd Democrat, yes.

Therefore .. ! sgnt a sreat deal ot time 1n p~1vnte

talk, trlendl7, soo1 1, pr1va~e, ol1#1o 1 talk . th

E-ver tt D rka~n. l tfflan I eee hi ev ry dar and I'd eay

to h1m in th past, rtNow, verett, when ar

be ready to talk about this tll?n

o1ng to

"oll, 0 h 'd say, we'll wait a little wh1le.,.

And he h 4 h a own tt etable plus the ract that r. Dlrk­

aen is an ble and astute man in tho t eld ot public re­

lat a; h wa n' t about r ad:r t le th e a ndment

be oone10 r d 1thout hav n"; 1

~ a ~pz~~nt <>n them. rut

1n poe t1on, I b.ad to recognize th t wh tever happened

tn t .:......s b 11 ou1d h ~ to h ve 't e 1 print on it. and I

am fully !n support ot t at. ao e•ve -one alon , no and

'va 'C!Gde adJust n • ; 1ve been ne ot1 t1ng, and we

re at 'the at g~ rlght now where we'r refining lan~&fle

n the b 11, wher we're atta ;.·t n· ,Q 11nd re e of

ag~eo nt. ~e )ave not bon abl to rr v& t any _o 1-

t_ve, any firm agreement,beoauee s I've told Senato~

n rlc n, I'm n tnter sted 1n .. mend nta on th s b1ll

s suoh. I pm int rested 1n amendments that br ng wh t

. '

l .. 28

you wer~ talktng nb~ut, · lt, so e more votes. And

ow ~o e get trJone"t A.fte

all put together then w 'll

g t tll ae

to ou_• rea pee t ve

oauouoa and we 1ll ee whethe~ w c n sell these amend­

nt • C n we conv nee p o le th t thea a endmanta

re belpfu1? If we can,

Bee use we ho e to get ome out of the Dt)moe~ta, too.

e have a tew moerete, northern and • at rn Democrats,

' that nren t vo ng cloture.

Row, 1 a Mackin, ho about you'l

.ISS MAC IN# fhee amendments in any • • • do

you n ed ny eo pr-o 1se at ll?

SE ' • I PHR ... ~: iell. thcv d.o not ean cOl!'lpro-

ot o pletely des~roy: · enroroe b 11tr or the enf ~ce­

ment proeedureB . T e do .ee.n o o ~ promise a to wh t

!'ollo s lt •.•

;~ISS ACKIN J Pol1 t1cel comp.,.om s •

S!m. llU ~"ll!Y: Political compromise in the

bee nn1ng, nn ly • at tbta ian t golnt'i' o be a Hum nre7

b ll end it 1s no ... go~n to be a Pres1dent Johnson blll•

Con :tress ..... bill or the Con e a

nd of both pol:.t1o l p rt1es . That much com.prom1 e we

' '

1 - 29

started out w th. The use c.omp.omiaE)d the .... put

a good deal of comprom1 e tn the btll. MGw, h t

we're r;;oin; to do 1 we'll t~ e .a seot

h! ghl7 contro ers al. And I reeosnt•e that tt•

new t!eld ot &ndbA o~ tor the .Federal govemment

Qt1ES'l'l0N: n !nOst ~ontrove sial? -•••

S~t: HUl~PnRBY: The most nontrovers lnl. Now ..

ono or the pet • on& thfl t the House put 1a tb.a t bill :re­

qu 1~ea a veray ex.aetlng and detailed $ystem or re port ng.,

Buslneaa en aa a grou. are pretty ttrad ot t1ll1ng out

l!ede:ral 'leports 11 ~ nd I must sa:r that ! heve sympath,- with

them. I'm not part!aularly nterested in b vt " a large

number o! Federal bureaucrats run.!fl!ttg a~O;.tnd the oo~· ntrr

snooping ever~ plaoe. ~A've got enourp of the , and I

e&l t'hu t way. And I a · id t 11a w y in the oon.fe~&noe

the other day. So we tro now perteetlng new language

that will minlm1ze th reports , ,het 111 in a sense

p it whatover : • • at thG initial stsst $in nvestiga-

t1on that has to be made \ti 11 be W~de b~l st te ott <L ale .

'fhe r1~'t!lt of pp€H:l to come to a Fed'6ra l o®ll" ion .... but

t b i& 1 l.f 'j'OU .... :t os.ll

it an ttclJuat~ent. I o~U it c oens1'blo one, eo~ .

l - 30

~u~ T!ON: It 1 t even be an prov ment.

S~N. n P. h~: I thin~ t 1s der n tely n

improve. nt.

QUE~ · ro. : Do you ave

ture ( 1 ud li!i 1

d te tor olo ...

B l. HU lL;EY: ell, I've bad to ke p ah :tt~n12

it, but vi w t we ought to

tollo1r tho t tablo that we h d

t it if w 'r going to

1nd ot gett ng b~ll

out ot hero be.fo e the • epubl e n onventlon, end I

sa1~, in the e rly rt ot July1 that we ou t to be

ble to br ng cloture s e time fter the ~ 1ddle ot June.

I think t at w •••

e, th ~:.n

UF.:STIO • nd th n .Y:"-1 • 11 t 1 through •••

SEn. HtmPH EY • nd then onoo we et cloture,

hen you'll ot it tote Hr. o ••• ., o e at •

(Sever l people ape k ~t once.)

ll olvll ... 1uhts be major l sue

n th e m n gn th s fall?

t e don t

SEN . HtmPHREY: Not if we p_ sa th s blll. It

ee t: s b~ 11, I ay quit~ rr nkly tha ~ I worrs

thnt ••• ltlat ll happ n, not only in the streets 1 not

only ~eo US$ ot demons~~ t~~ not only bee use of r~s·

tration h_eh will le d to v olenoe nd disorder, but I

att-a1d that pol . tio~ll spokesman w1ll *ll take very

1 - a1

opln!.ono.t d. firm , 1 reeonp1~sble pos!tlona and 1t will ' I

be l~ost 1mpoosltl• to e~er ~ t anr h ns out of 1t. In other worae , 1!.' e can•/t &a th a blll befo ~ th e

I ''\_ two conv nt tons arc over; then \ rill g$t 1nto the oa p 1~ and then people. 1!1111 a~~~ e &aeb. other, and

( l \ then the . en that run fdr office \in areas •••

( ?} s r1 • • • 1111 outpromta each other ....

s~..; . UUlnPB. BY;/ Theyt llj out~rottise aoh other. ) I

They'll take stands that just ma~e 1t utt rly impossible. if not impossible, t le at very /a tt cult tor ua to l&g1s-

/ l t , you see ••• !

QUE(~T!O ~ In your c prom!s th • ( ?) s.1ould ( have de an honorable b a s tor split • . • (Rest inaud.lble).

SEN. litJ ? REY: Exactly. And peo le 111 stop

talking b ut e oh oth r. And this hole th ng will be­come 1n olved 1 pol tical t 4o11 , political intrigue, nd po.l1 tical un-re t •••

..-:,..'..__{_f"'""):o...-__ : S le pol- t1ca •••

SE~ . PRREY: So What

l1oan tr enda nd. De;nocrat1c tr ends to do ls, I ea1d, "Please, let' s et this ne 0 1.Jt or tho

This would bo exactly like tnk1ng the asue of defending Dcrl1n into the res ct1 ·o pd1tioal camp 1gns

1 - 32

and div lng our oountr:r on the ba 1a is ue ot

n tionsl aecur ty. or whether w sh tld h e t

ator::fbo:mb. I mean. e•ve tried to keep nat on81

security • • • and it B, t 1 a just bout the t ex-

plosive. If we co ld keep t h s issue O' t of the

partisan eontext, I think · 1 11 make a distinct con­

tribution to the A erlcan poll leal aCene.

Q!JES'l'ION• Do ycru think ••• ah1ft1ng a little

bit, do you th k that leadership of th ... ( nd ot Reel 1)

SE 1• Bm '}HREY: There' no danger of

Johnson's health breaking down. As I s d, the only

{ naudibl ) ••• h ' happy, he' olng, you kno •

QUSSTIONJ I

e ean t leave t b ia w thout a

little pol it c • Is the ••• do you think that hs ~ .ng

led the f t for oivil ~1 hts ln the enet is likely

to be a er1 ous l1ob1l1 t in tb:e -.I'OUth tor- ycu on '~he

nat onal t·toltet, in eonsider tlon of your po tion on

the nat onal t1cltet?

sa •• U!PHREY: Well, I don't th nk it will

bo n sset. I don't t nk 1t's a erious 1 ao llty.

I :sy be • • • , 11., let's rmt 1 t tn:ts way, then. At one

I - 33

t1me 1n my public lifo, I w a looked upon by many of

our outhern rr~enda as an nemy of the south. an

<J. n them to them, but l don • t be 1eve they t·1. r.. ' ·~hut

now because the South has had a chanee to see me 1n

oper tion 1n mo~e •r~as than just o1v11 r1~hte. In

fact, .in many area of legislation I wo.ded ve,ry closely

1th the Sout~e. nerafnd f ol a very close dentity to

the r rural areas, tor xamplo, and to the problems of

gro ing clties. There 1s a greut s1m.1lar1ty bet een

the ~lddle ~eat and tho South 111~v ryt' 1ng - t ansporta­

tion problema, ne industry, theproblema or the farm,

rural America} all ot these are m tter that we see

a lmoa t eye to eye. I ha e never been pe.:rt1cula.rlr

or1t cal of tho South as such. I th nk that I ap-

ec e.te their problem; they've grown up w4th t h ls

problem and 1f we'd grown up w1th t, e*d ybe

ot some t the same wa J what r•m tl'yln to do

s the 1 ader in t' s ••• o!l one ot th leaderP n

this civ tl ri 1ts f s\"t is to is cuss the me ... " t

of the legislation, to dt euss t l is a a net on 1

ssue, non-partis n 1 sue, and as a oral lss~o.

nd, i .n a ens e , re-v 11 y to see 1!' together e n't

· more o.r less help the South resolve thls l tseue, and

I am convinced ln my own heart that a numb r of

2 - 34

Southern leaders wnnt us to do t~le. Thoy can't gre w1th us, but they know it haa to b$ done .

QUEST ION: When you s p ak of the moral

issue, I lmow about a y r or so go, the dm1n1stra­

t~ n wa very concerned at what seemed e lack of prQ ...

par rt e1pat1 (-n oy m ny influential ~oupa 1n the

ommun1t1es and enpee1ally in the Borth, 1!lclud1na

the clergy 1n this profoundly moral issue. Is there ln the • •• I t:t of the pe suasion th tin the year tha 's ptHHt6d, there has been a ell n e, but h ·ve you

seen any s1gnlflcant ohanges in t .. at d roct ... on?

SEN. H~PHREY: Definitely. The oat im­portant development in the past year ln the Amer can

publ e life 1a the active part1o1p tion ot the spiritual leaders or all the ~ajor faiths ln thle moral i~sue of civil r1ghta nd human rights. This e it . Tuis ls the new margin ot strength . lnstead of t't s just becoming the issue ot the CP or the Urban League or en~ . or some geographic group or aome so- called liberal grou th a has beoorne a t:-uly moral issue given leadership o ·~

the m n1stry . And I want to tell you , we e.re the luckiest people in the world that th.le has hap·_ ened beea~.tSe too often tho 8 people that should give leaderah:p vO a

2 ... 35

movo ent like this hesitate to do so. I a apen ing now of p~oreaa1onal pto le, of bus_ness people, or peo le in middle income nnd people on•

ably oultu .. ed, educated, they hesitate to do it.

nd the extrem s w lks in and takes over then. Anc:

frequently the Oo·!!mu.."11ata w1ll take ov r. nd nat ha happened , instead of tne Oo.~un tta bein able to

ta e over the c1 v11 rights · ovem nt, even th 1 u,gh they

nibble at it and they try to lnf1ltrate it, actually

the clvil ighta movement to date hA~ guiding sp.lrlt

:rro the ehurehea • • • fron1 the Ce.thollc, .t~rot s tant

nd Jewl h faiths. They hav been bl to get on top

ot 1 1saue 80 to spenk and to have given 1t 1n~raw

t1on nd fj dd nee. ab.on l 8 w that mar-eh on v·aah ngton

last August, I thou"-~ht to myself, ttllow different th

de.onstr t1on 1s than om thnt we've seen in th& past

1n Amer1aa. n In the dark day-s of tho '30a when ny

segments of the .er oan lbor ovement were infiltrated,

for exa. ple , by the Go~unlsts- ~hey e~e cleaned out

lnte~ on. indeed, but they did lead tor awhtle. The

Negro 1n America has res1ste Oo~ un1 t infiltration,

and 1 ti1ink tbe b•s1o reason th t he's rea ated it is

that, number one, ost of the Neb!"o&o tor lons t1 e

2 .. 36

lived in rural arees. SeO''ndly~ the wel'e olosa to

their little church, h tever tb 1r faith, and close

to their clergy. r.ow., lth th.~. s tlr nized society,

his 1ndustr1 11zed soc ety nd t .• ca.ange n the whole

pattorn of our living in the 1 st 25 or 30 years or even more, let•s say 1n th& laat quarter of a century

the top len.derah .... p now of the ohure \es have mo ed in.

nd when the Catholic Church took the position that t

dld early on school desegreg t1on, a very difficult

position for many of them in the South , this took

great courage and great spiritual coura£o , and th a

set the pattern. hen the Ih tiona.l 0ouno11 of'

Churches and t en, of course, the rabbinical groups ,

the Jewish grout'S have lweys had a elose identity

w1 th these problems of lnority groupe and ot dlser1nd -

nat.1on and intolerance.

I th1nk there are many th ngs that happened.

The eleetton of ,man th t wa of he Catbollc faith to

the Presidency, the organ1zat1on of the .., • the aet1ve

participation of splr1tual leaders fn the e1v11 rights

movement - these have beoom t o of the moat s1gn~tieant

developments in t ls per od ot mer can h Rtory. And

desp te all the other troubles that you hear bout snd

•.

2- 37

l mean the hate and the extremls'"s• these t o ractora

overshadow everythtng lse. I th nk th s is all to

the 50od. , tho. t t a ~· I think we 're go ng to wtn.

(?) J That's a very ~ood statement,

Sen tor.

QUESTION: Let me ask you o. eoupl of Pf)rsonel

ones. If the Prtes1dent picks yo\l as V1ce-Prea1dent,

how do you run tor Vioe-Presidentt Or don't you?

(Laughter and com ~enta by- varlmts people.)

Sl~N . lim.f.PRREY: In 1066 Adlai Stevenson oeme

down here and e had a bl{j dinner in ashin ton. I

rem ber because the late and beloved alter George ,

w.1o w s then here a , t.. t time , and I sat at ,hat d' nner

an<1 snt right alongs do or li dla Stevenson , nd he s 1d

to me, "I need to talk to you. n

nd so we went upsta1~s 1n the hotel ••• it

was the * yflower ••• and we had a talk and he sa1d -Q

we were talkin ab~ut t e posaib11tt &s of/V1ce-pres1-

dentlal candidate and everybody as be1na :mentioned as

they g$nerally re - 1t 1s one thlng that really doesn•t

bring you too oh fame 1a to 'be mentlon.ed as a poss1 -

o111ty for Vice President ••• (Laughte~) •••

(?) : I agree.

•,

2 - 38

Sl!Ji. HUll 'H!E:Y: If y , 'vo been anyt ina

up fro n alde~n on up, yGU've got a chance to be I

entioned, you know, eo d1dn t quito realize t th t .... muoh at t a time , but e ent up ta 1rs end talls d and

e tal~ed about different poople and t lked and talked

and he aaid, 1' ell, why

f on t you o so et1 ng nbout it?"

1n so ny words.

I aid, n '•ha t do 'j')U mean?"

"Well, the e's no reason 1t llr.ruldn't be

ou . ·fu.y don• t you do something about it?"

ne didn 1t say it should be, h juot said

there wa. n' t any reason it sh uldn 1 t be . (Laugh r.)

ell• I inter eted th s as cUd others th t t <'lis as

ort or an open, :oin to be a ••• if I best1rr d my­

self a little btt, I . i~t be oonside ed . And I did

be~r myself a blt, ns did others, aa you reaall, and

then Sen tor Kanned7 and Senator Kefauver and there

were others • Se tor Oore as oe considered ~nd

there were a rtumbe:r of tho • 'e all be t rred our-

selves.; tried to run for V1ee-irea1dent, nd I

can s t1ll see myselt running around t."lose corr doXti!l

1n that hotel • • •

2 .. 39

SE!. RUM 'llrt?:Y: ln Chicago ••• ond really

I hate to rGmornber 1 t. ( Lou&h ter.) So 1"" t me Just

s~y hat you just don't run fo~ ~~ a on • • •

... (,T) : That as t."l longoat night in

lstcr;y.

SEY. HID' f'llHE : Ye # 1 t was •.•• out y u know

I mu"t eay that I don't r6gret a bit or it. It was all

such n 1nvaluocle exp rlenee. Ir you'r$ ~olng to be n

pol! tics, rou ought to b in the g me. You lmow, you

ought to be 1n the b ttle. It' a sort of like it y01 '!·• • go1ng to play football, don t come in for just one or

two lays and then get roughed up. You nevett understand

the • You've got to have cleat rks on your beck,

you now? ( La gh ter • ) nd believe m , I've got them.

,ell, anyway, I 'll just &nd u , by ayln that tho only

way I know that you ean do s.nyth ng b ut this 1s to

make yourself sufflc1entl;y ·orthy or to conduct your-

s lf 1n a manner so that you would be worthy of eon­

aider t_an , not only Just ersonalponduct ••• that 's

1 portant , bu~olitlcal aturity, respansib111ty, in­

slghtJ the l'roaident is going to decide what he neerls

to gi ·e him the kind or help he needs; 'l don't think

it' a eo much balanee any more. 1~1 1 things have ehangcd

·.

2 - 40

- ·this 1s a m'J.Ch smaller eountry because of oommu.ntca­

• t_on . It 1sn t as if ou have to h ve somebody thmt

s eaks for one port of the ccrantry because you'll never

~et down there, you kno • vevybody knows everybody

else n A r ca . T. e hes become almost l1ke one bi~

neighborhood. But what you really need and what 'treat ...

dent Johnson's goln to do, l'm eonv need or th.s, 1s

he• going to select so eone that he reels he can work

with . umber two, someon that he feels that can take

on the responsib11 · ties ~~t he would glve to that man

B$ his partner, as 11s Vice-President. And number thre 1

if the worst should happen, thflt our nation would not be

f und without a orthy ueeessor. bee usc Johnson is

patr ot. t .

He s not just a Democrat. You know , many

people thtnk that when he talks about n ttonal untt,­

and thQt th1e ought to be ••• that we ought to be a

greu~ united nat ~n thst t h s s pol t c 1 t 1 •

I 've eat rieht in h1s off ce w th h m when

he had tears n his eyes ten years aroo tell1n ~ rte tho

same thtng. I know t h s fellow. re lly means 1 t.

He believea it and I'm convinced ot one th ng, he 1s

not going to select any man for the ofrtoe ot V1oe­

Pres1dent juet to ~lease a part cular fact on or gro p

2 - 41

or to just ••• just to sort of b lance ott. He 1a

going to seleot so body he cun orK 1th, live with,

that he e n trust, that he knows und&~etands pol ties,

and that he th ·nka has the qWlli ties somewhere neatt

at least o£ being able to assume the burden8 of off ce

in ease ••• th offloe of Presidene ••• in case tt

happened. I

I don t '·now of anybody that tl t all that

picture , but he'£1 maroe f1nd him.

VEST .iON: lb you think he would have to

go outs1de the Democratic Party tor nd such a man?

S l. m lf"E'Y; I would ho: e t.ot . l would

hope .ct " th.nk the Party ·deserves to hsve me -

b r of th Party, but e,.a1n • 1on:tt say this 1s an

absolute rl'!qu1rement, but he'll ••• I th·nk Johnson

under tande this ••• .tresid.&nt Jor.nson understands

this well enou~h to know what he needa to do •

• QUESTION : I d1dn t really fully mean to

1 ad into the end ( '1) c£ the. t .. • • 1nteree ti 1g ( 1noud ble)

••• about that. Do you mean S~evenson re lly made a

aoe out of it?

~~f. HUM BREY: Oh, of courael P.nally, you

kno , he thre. the whole t 1!ng o .. en t t 1e convent ion.

You may re t n ur d tha .. P cs dent .Jo .n on won • t do that.

2 - 42

( L· u.g' tor.)

(Menf ~ aka, o t ln u :bl . )

(?) : nut he's alre dy nd1cat d ...

he says, "I'll 1 t you know."

. } • ~ t reslly was the ildest •

night I've ever seen.

(?) a Oh, boy ( • ) •

~?) : That 'eJinesday nn Thu .... sC! y.

(?) : That was tre tor all .

(Yore similar statement all round un ~l

t 1~ cut.)

~d or Interv w.

I~LOWlN A E IUESTlONS AND ANSWERS lN THE INTERVIEW WITH SEN.

HUMPHREY:

Qa S NATO!• HOW LON 10 YOU tHINK THIS ltiATE lS GOIN TO LAST?

ALL SUMMtRT

As 0~ UNI.iSS THJNCS TURN MUCH WQISi WE OUGHT TO !;£T THE lllJ­

TO THE WHITE HOUSE FOI SIQNATURE lifO![ TK£ REPUILICAN CONVENTION

(JUl.Y 1 J) •

I IF THE lll.L ISN'T PASSEJ-•ANJ THE RAtt OF PRO«;lttSS JOiSN'T

SATISfY SOM£ OF THE RI;HTS IOUPS·-AIE WI 1.1K£LY 0 HAY£ TROU•LE

tHIS SU Milt

At J..Ef'S PUT IT THIS WAYS l THINK WE OUQMT TO EXPECt OMi

tEMONSTRATIONS l£CAUSE THERE lS A FtvtR lN THi COUNTRY. SOME PEOPLE

CALl.. IT TH NE~ 0 REVOJ..UTlON. THEa IS AN UNREST IN THi COUNTRY.. ANI

1 HAV li£N PARTICUL.ARLY CONC:tRNII ABOUT AFTER JUNE l'TH~ WHEN THE

YOU~ M£N ANI WOMEN GET OUT Of COLLEQ£.

OUR YOUN~ P[OPI.:£ HAV£ LIV&J PRETTY MUCH THE ;oo LIFE AN NOW

THIY' E AROUSEI A lJdlC:I NUMJiR OF THEM, ANI tMtY• L.L JOlN IN

J£MONST ATlONS.

tc You• a£ SPEAKING Oi WR!TlS AS WELL AS NEGROES. ••

At Y£S• VilY DEflNlTILY• THEY WJL~ JOlN IN THE SPIRIT OF GOO),

PEACEFUL ttMONSTRATlONS• AN THEN SOMiiOIY GETS HU t, SOM£101! GETS

SMOV.£1 AROUND, SGM£101Y IS THROWN IN JAlJ.. lF TH£Ri IS ANY llSOIJtR.

lf TKE POLICE 0 GO TO WORK ON SOME OF THESE YOUNGSTERS AN tr SQME

Of THE ARE THROWN lN JAIL IECAUSE THEY VlOLATtJ SOMI LOCA~ ORilNANC£

OR SOM STATE STATUTE, THEN YOU"R.E GOlN~ TO HAVE REAL tROU.l.E, ANI

THIS COUL ACCTUALLY HAPPEN, NOT SO MUCH IECAUSE Of NlGROtS~ IUT

IECAUS OF YOUN,, ENERGETIC~ VITAL• ACTIVE, l1EALIST1C, YOUNG WHITE

MIN ANt WOHtN.

MUMPHREY 2

<:Q:SOMl 1 lfTS ·ours MlctKT CONST ll Ttl£ PAC£ AT WR1CH YOUtRt HAN81.1NG THE lLt. AS JRAGQlNC YOUR FEET•••

At THERE IS SOME OF THAT ALR£AJY. IUT 1 NAVE TRIED TO KEEP TM

~EA iRS OF THE RISPONSliLE OAGANJZATlONS lNFO M£D AS TO WHAT Wi•R£

TRYl ' TO 10• AN 1 WANT TO MAKE lt UlT£ CLEA THAT I AM ~DING TO 10 WHAT l TIUNK E£1S TO 1£ tONE HER 1 Jlt GARI.LESS OF OUTS.lli: PIESSUR s. I WON'T SELl. THEM OUt. MY WMOJ.E LlFl IS lNVOLVEI IN tHlS• WE*RE GOt ~ TO 0 WMAT Wt THINK JS RlGKT TO It ION£ AND NECESSARY TO IE JON£ l ORJER TO 'lT A WORKAILI1 EFF£CT1VE~ ENfOICtAIL£ JILL.

s WlL.L ClV1Lt IGHTS IE A MAJOR lSSUt lN TH£ POl.ITlCAL. CAMPAIGN

THIS iAU.t

Al NOT II WE PASS THIS JILt. IF WE DON T PASS THIS lll..L; l SAY O.U.IT£ FR-ANKLY TKAT 1 WO RY WHAT Wll..J. HAJ'PEN, NOT ONLY lN THl STREETs,

01' ONLY IECAU'SJ: OF IEMONSTRATIONS1 NOT ONLY IECAUS£ OF fRUSTlAT!ON WHICH WIL~ L£A TO VlO~INCI ANI JlSOR ER1 JUT l AM AF AlJ THAT fOl.lflCAL SPOKESMAN WILL ALl. TAKE VERY OPINlONATlJ FIRM~

1JUtECONCll.AIJ..i POSlTJONS ANI lf WILL J ALMOST JMPOSSJIL fQ £Vii

Gtf ANYTHINC OUT OF IT. ll to FORC£ AN iNI tO TMi UN1.1M1TEJ JIMTE NOW . OlNC ON 1N THE

SENATE SO YOU CAN VOTE ON THl lll.L YOU HAV£ TO APPLY THE CLOTURE RULE. HO ts THAT COlNG TO WORK?

As lT _ EtUlRES t\olC>-THlRtS Of THQS£ PREsENT A VOTING-NOT

£C£SSA81LY TWO•THJRtS Oi THE 100 SENATORS.-TO LIMIT ElATE. ON AN ISSUE AS S[IJOUS AN AS CONTROVERSIAL AS CIVIL RliMTS, MOST ALI. THE SENATORS WOULJ IE PRESENT. SENATO IN'~I lS ILL; TWO~tHlR S OF TKE 9 IS '' AN THAt•s WHAT W£1 NE£1 FOR CLOTURE. ONCE A CLOTU HAS 8££N A~REtJ TO~ THERE ARI 100 HOURS OF JtiATE AVAILA~ ON THi 1141.. AN ALL AMENIMENTS THAT HAVE SEEN P ESENTD ANI R£AJ, ONE

HOUR ER SENAtO •

KUMPHR£Y J

t HOW MANY VOTES 0 YOU HAVE J.lND UP FOI CLOTUR£7 At Wt HAVE 'i THAT WE COUL PlN IOWN fOR SUR • IY MAYlE A L11'Tl..I ·

-EXTRA WO K liGHT AT THIS TIME~ WI MIGHt 1£ All...£ TO GIT UP AS KlGK AS '1J SO WE NlE FlV£ TO SIX MORE THAN W£ PRESENTLY 'HAVE_. ANI TKAt•s

JUST AS fAR AWAY AS f OM HER£ T~ TKt MOON lF YOU oN•t HAVE tHEft• at WH£RE ARE THOSE VOT&s GOING tO COM£ FROM? At IT ISN"T TKE 1J SOUTHIRNE -S TKAT AR£ PREVENTING THE PASSAGE OF

THE CIVIL BlCHTS llLL; THtY•Rt QPPOS£1 1'0 IT• IUT TKtY toN•t HAVE THAT MUCH POWER. lf WE CAN GET THE il OTHiR SiNATORS••OR i' Of TMI OTHER --i1 S£NATORSJ... TO IRING CLOTURE W£ CAN TK£N VOTi UP OR DOWN A CIVIL.

IGHTS 111.1...

: WHAT All& YOU GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE TO GET THOSE NEEJEI VOTES FOR CLOTURE?

As WELL., THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING lOUT IN THE CONfERENCES THAT WE•VE J££N HOI. 1NG., OF WKlCH SOH£ PtOPL.i HAVE I£IN CRITICAL.• I CAME TO tK£ CONCLUSION IN THE VERY Fl ST JAYS Of THIS RtSPONSlllL.ITY or JtlN THE. Fl.OOR LEAJ.£R lN TH£ ClVlL. lGHTS alLL THAT 1 HAl TO HAVE TK£ COO ERATlON OF MR. 11RKS£N ·{Of ll.LlNQ.IS, THE SENATE MlNOitlTY LEADER>•

HE'S THE MOST £fF£CT1V£ AND ~lA 1 G SPOKESMAN OF THE REPUILlCANS IN THE CONGRESS. WE MA E THIS A NON•PA TlSAN ISSU • HI WANTS A C.lVIL. l<iHTS

»ILL• : HOW JOIS THIS COOPElATlON WO K••CAN YOU GIV US A LOOK AT TH£

INN£ WO KIN'S OF tHt S NAT£ HiRtt A~ J SPENt A GREAT I£AL OF TlM£ lN PJUVAT£ TAl.K, FRl.£Nil.Y,

SOC1AL1 PRlVATEi POLITICAL. TAt.K WITH EV ITT JlJlKStN. l SEt HlM EVtRl JAY ANI l'J SAY TO KIM lN THE PASTa *NOW• EVERETT. WHEN ARE WE COlN TO IE REA Y TO TAJ..K AJOUT TKIS IILLT

HUMPHREY

W£LL6* H£• SAY~ •vE•LL WAIT A LITT~& WHILE.* HI HAJ HIS OWN

DltTAts. ,AN M • Jl KsEN lS AN iiU: ANI ASTUTE MAN lN tMI Fl£1.1 OF

UJLlC tL.AflONSJ Ht WAsN•.t AIOUT lAIY TO .L.ET THESE A iN MINTS Jt

CONSII I£ WITHOUT HAVl G HIS lMP lNT ON THEM. A I IN MY POSITION# 1

HAl TO RiCOGN.lZ£ THAT WHAT£¥£ HAPPtND 1M THIS lllJ.. WOUJ.. HAY£ TO

HAVE HlS lKPRlNT 0 IT• ANI 1 AM fU~Y IN SUPPORT OF THAT SO WE'V£

CON ALONG NOW AND WE'VE KAJ AIJUSTM NTS•

1 WHAt SORT OF AIJUSTMiNTSf

At W TAK£ A SECTION• FOR EXAM L£# LIKE THE iAlR EMPLOYMENT

P ACTlClS SECTION. THlS IS HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL•

At (CAPS) TM£ <UNCAPSJ JIIOST CONTROV£RS1AL1

As (CAPS R.E (UNCAPS) MOST CONTROVERSIAL. NOW, ONE OF tHi

SECTIONS tHAT If£ HOUSE PUt IN THAT llLI. at UlR£5 A VERY EXACTING ANI

lt1' lLEJ SYSTEM OF REPORTING • tUSlNlSS MiN AS A CROUP AR£ PRETTY

111£1 OF FILLING OUT FE ERAL REPORTS# AN l MUST SAY THAT 1 HAVE

SYMPATHY WiTH tHEM. l'M NOT PARtiCULARLY lNttJtESttJ lN HAVING A LARGE

NUMI Of fEDERAl. IURiAUCIATS RUNNING ArtOUMI THI COUNTftY SNOOPING

£Vi Y PLACE. WE'VE GOT ENOU;H Of THEM. ANt l SAID THIS IN THE

CONFE ENCE TM£ OTHER JAY• SO WE SET OUT TO PERFECT NEW LANGUAQt THAT

l~ MlNIMlZ£ THE REPORTS• THAT WILL 1N A SENS PERMIT THAt fK£

INITIAl. STA't OF ANY lNVESTl ATlON THAT HAS TO JI M · E Wllwl. 1£ MOE

fEtEIAL COMKlSSSION•

A OUT A ViA! AGO• tH£ AtM1NlSTRATlON WAS VtRY CGNCEltN J At WHAT

SEEMU A L.Ae.K OF PROPER PA!TlCl ATION IY MA Y lN.FJ •• UiNTlAL. GROUPS,.

INCJ.UilNG TMi CUR Y •. lN THIS PROFOUNILY MORAL. ISSUE-. THtR£ HAS IEEN

A CH~I• HAS~•t tMtRl!

\ \

HUMPHREY 5

AI TH MOST IMPORTANT JIVELOPM£NT IN TNE PAST YEAR IN AMERlCAN

UILlC 1-lF£ lS THE AC1'1VI PARTlClP'-Tl.ON or TRE SPUtiTUAl. L.EAJERS Of

• ALL TH£ MA~OR AitHS IN THIS MORAL ISSUE 01 CIVIL liGHTS ANI HUMA

Rl<fftTS. THIS IS THE NEW MAR<;IN OF STRENGTH. AN 1 WANT TO TELl. YOU.­

W£ Al · THE LUCKIEST PEOPLE IN TM£ VORl. THAT THIS HAS HAP IN£1 IECAUSE

TOO OFTEN P£0P~& THAt SHOU~J (;lVt L£A tiSHIP TO A MOV£MENT ~IKE THIS

MESlTAT TQ 10 S~•-PR0i£SS10NAL PEOP~E6 auslN£SS PlOP~£~ PEOP~E IN

THE MIDDLE lNCOMit AMI THE EXTREMlST WALKS 1N ANI TAK.tS OVER.

FR£ UEN'tl.Y TM COf'lMUNISTS WlU. TAKE OViR• IUT INSTlAI OF THE

COMMUNISTS IEING AILE TO TAK£ OVER THE ClVlL RIGHtS MOV&MENT••tvtN

THOU H THtY liJLE AT IT ANI THEY TRY TO INFILTRATE lt••ACTUALLY !Hi

ClVlL Ic;HTS MOVEMENT tO JAT£ HAS A GUIJlNG SPlJUT FROM THE CHU CH£S.t

F OM THI CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT AN JEWISH FAITHS. WHEN .t SAW THAT

MARCH ON WASHINGTON LAST AUCUST, I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, *HOW llfftRENT

THIS tEMONSTIATlON JS f OM SOME w;;•v Stt.N IN TH£ PAST ~IN AMERICA.•

IN THE A K lAYS Of THE •JQs WHEN MANY SEGMENTS Of THE AM£RlCAN LAiOR

MOVEMENT WERE INFILTRATE , FOR £XAMPL.t# IY TH£ COMMUNlSTS••TMI:Y WERE

CLEANE OUT LATER ON, IN EEt., IUT THEY ID l..tA FOR A WHlLE• THt

NEGRO IN AI"£ JCA MAS RESIST£1 COMMUNIST lNFILTRATJ.ON.

WHEN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TOOK tHE POSITION THAT IT Ill EARLY ON

SCHOOl. IESieRIGATlON-•A VERY llFflCUl.T POSITION iO:R t1ANY or THEM JN

tHE SOUTH., THlS TOOK GRtAT COURA i AND 'RtAT SPIRITUAL COURAGE• ANI

THIS SET TH! .PATtiRN. tHIN THE NATIONAL COUNCIL Of CHURCHES AND THEN,

OF COURSE• tH£ RA.IIl lCAL GROUPS• TH.E JEWISH ~ROUPS HAVE ALWAYS HA A

CLOSE IIENTlTY WlTH TKESi PROIJ..£MS OF MlNGRlTlES ANI Of DlSCRI11JNATlON

ANI INTOL.DANC£ •

HUM HR£Y 6

MANY THINGS MAPPEND • TH£ ELECTION Of A MAN OF tKi CAt'HOl.lt fAITH

TO TK ESliENCY• THE ACTIVE PARTlCIPATlON OF SPRlTUAL ~EA iRS lN THt CIVIL ~lGHTS MOV£M£NT-•THESE ARE twO OF TKE MOST SlGNlilCANT

I

IEV~OPMENTS lN THIS PERIOD Of AMERICAN HISTORY. II HOW MUCH OF TH VOTE GOVIRNO WALLACE HAS IEEN G!T11NG lN

P lMARlES IS AN ANTl•ClVU, fUCHTS VOTJ;? Al.MOST ALl.?

As NOT Al.L-. 1 THINK IT'S FAll TO SAY THAT IN TH£ NAtiON• NORTH ANJ SOUTH6 THERE AREN'T TOO MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE R!A~~y ANTI CJV~ RIGHTS • IUT THIY WIJJ;. 1£ ANTI TJU: FEDERAL GOVERNMEN'T DOJNG ANYtHlN'

tOUt lT. OR THEY'Ll.. IE ANTl ANY ARTICULAR SPtclAL tYPt OF

L.tGlSJ.ATION. IUT TH£1,£ A I PEOPI.ti THAT JUST PLAIN JON'T J..lK£ NlGIOiS

AN TKER£ ARE PEOPLE THAt ON'T LIKE ORIENTALS_, PEOPLE THAT DON4 T LlK£ SCAN INAVlANS.t ANI .$0 ON. MR. WAI.LACt MAS US£ iVERY

POLITICAL. TRieX IN THE lOOK 1'0 PJUSTER TKlS SUPPORT• WHAT HAS

SURP IS£1 HI IN THE StATES tHAT HE SiLECTEt IS THAT Ht JliN'T GET MORE SUPPORT.t ANI ! AM NOT SAYlNC THIS TO lN ANY WAY JlMlNlSH TM£ EFFECT Of HIS SHOWING.

CU HAt lS TM£ LONG ElATE ON THE CIVIL RIGHTS 111.1. GOlNG tO 10

TO tHt REST Of THE PRiSltENT" S PltOt:RAM-fM£ OTHER fiVE OR SlX

MAJOR lll.LS THAT M£ WANtS ACTION ON?

Al IF WE CAN fiNISH TH ClVl~ RIGHTS IIL~ lN LATE JUN£ OR THE 1ST OF JULY, W£ CAN MOVE ON THi APPROPRIATION llLLS• THE POVERTY IlL~• fHt PAY JILL, SOME All TO £1UCATlON.- Tlft FOOl STAMP 111.1. AN THE

ME11CARE 111.1.. IUT lf THIS ClVll. lGHTS JILL IS N-OT OUT Oi THE WAY UNTlJ. AFT£ tHE EPUI&.lCAN CONVENTION• THtRE•s ONl.Y ON£ THING fOR THE PRESltENT TO JO If HE WANTS MlS PROGRAM. THAT'S TO CALL THIS CONGRESS JACK INTO SPECIAL SISSlO • ANJ 1 THINK MIMJDS OF THi CON RESS HAVE TO RLCOCNlZE TH T TH£Y MAY VERY WiLL II HER£ UP UNTIL OCTOitR•

t ROW to YOU UN FOR VlCE•P ESIItNTf OR OPf'T YOU? • MUMPHRiYt IN 19S' AILAl STEVENSON CAM JOWN MERE FOR A llC

liNN£ • 1 SAT ALO 'Slit MIK ANt H£ SAil• •1 NEE TO TALK TO YOu.• S W£ VINT UPSTAI S lN TH HOT£1.--•lT WAS THE MAYfLOWtR• .. ANJ Wl .. HAJ

A TALK.. WE i TALKl ' AIOUT TH£ POSS111Ll1'.l . S Of A VlCt•PR!SIJENTIAL CANJlJAT£ ANI EVElY OJY WAS III M.ENTIONEI• AS TH&Y GL,IRALLY A t-· IT'S ONE THIN THAT £A1.1.Y IO£SN'T Rl Ci YOU TOO MUCH FAM TO IE MtNTIONE S A 10SSlllLtTY fO V.IC.£- P £SilENT U .. AUC Ell> • ~·

IF YOU'VE liEN ANYTHINQ FROM AN ALIERMAN ON UP, YOU'VE GOT A CKANC TO J£ MiNTlONtJ• YOU KNOW• ALTHOUGH 1 llJN•t UITI R£ALI2£ IT AT THAT lME. IUT W£ TAl.K I ANI TAI.Kil AIOUT llfFDiNT 't OPL. ANJ TALK£1 ANI TALKEJ AN HE SAl # •wtLL• WHY ION'T YOU 10 SOMETHING AI OUT IT? • IIN SO MANY WOIIS

I SAil; •wKAT 10 YOU MEA ? 8

ELL~ TH£ t•s NO EASON IT SHOULDN'T I YOU. WHY 10 'T YOU 0 S£0MTH1N~ AIOUT ltt•

HE II N't AY IT ~ SMOUJ.I IE, HE JUST SAll THERE WASN'T ANY EASON IT SMOULJN'T II. CLAUGMTt .> W£1.L.t 1 lNTtR1RET£J THIS AS Ill

OTHEIS THAT nus WAS {;OlN' TO 1£ OPEN ANI If 1 IESTlR E MYSELF A LlTTL liT, I MIGHT IE CONSlJ£ IJ. A 1 1 J£STI MY ELf A llf~ AS Ill OTH£ s~ SEATO KiNNtJY, SENATO KiiAUVtR, SENATOR ORE AN tHE £ WE £ A NUMI! OF OTHt s. WE ALL lEST! R!J OWRS£LV£SJ W£ TRlEJ TO UN FO VlCE•PR£S1J£ T.t ANI 1 CAN STlL.L SEE MYSELf RUN ING AROUNJ THO E COR 110 S lN THAT HOT L IN CHICAGO

ANI RiAlJ.-Y l HATE TO REMEMIER 1T. IUT YOU KNOW I MUST SAY THAT 1 JON•t RtGAIT A It OF I.T. IT WAS AI.!.- SUCH AN 1NVA1.6AIL£ IXPtRlENCE. I·F YOU' £ C:QINC TO 1£ IN POl.ITlCS., YOU OU~HT TO It IN TH£ AME. l YOU' t GOIN' TO PLAY fOOTIALL, JON'T COM£ IN fOR JUST ONE OR tWO PLAtES ANI THEN GET RGU&Mt• UP~ YOU NEVER UNIDSTANJ TH£ GAME.

YOU'V£ GOT TO HAVE CLEAT MARKS ON YOUR lACK., YOU KNOW? tLAUGHT£1U

ANJ lil.ltv£ M£, l'V£ &OT THEM"' TH ONLY WAY 1 KNOW THAT YOU CAN 10 ANYTHING AIOUT THIS IS TO MAK£ YOURSEI.F SUFflCltNTL.Y WOJITHY 01 TO CONJUCT YOU SEI..f IN A MANNI SO THAT YQU WOULI 1£ WORTHY OF CONSll ATlON, NOT ONI..Y JUST PERSONAL CONIUCT ••• THAt•s IMPORTANT., JUT POLITICAL MATURITY., USPONSlllLlTY.t lNSieMt.

TFIE P £SilENT lS OING TO ltClJi: WHAT HE NtDS TO GIVE HIM THE K1 I OF HELP Hi NtiiSj l ION't TK1NK IT•s SO MUCH IALANCE ANY MORE. ALL THINGS HAVE CNAN~Et•-TRlS IS A MUCH SMALLER COUNT Y IECAUS£ OF COMMUNICATION. IT lS •t AS lF YOU HAVt TO HAV! SOMEIOJY THAT SPEAKS FOR ONE PART OF THE COUNTRY 1£CAUSE YOU'LL NEVER ;tr DOWN THERE,~ YOU KNOW. EV£RYIOJY KNOWS tv£RYIOIY ELSE lN AMERICA. THIS HAS liCOME ALMOST LIKE ON£ JIG NEl~KJOJUlOOt. UT WHAT YOU REALLY NED ANI WHAT P ESIIE T JOHNSO 'S GOU~C TO o. I •M CONVINCE) OF THIS• lS Stl..E:CT

SOI'IION£ HE i'itl.S HE CAN WORK WITH. NUMIDt TWO• SOMEONE THAT ME FEELS THAT CAN TAl([ ON THl RtSPONSllll.lTltS THAT Ht WOtJL GlV£ TO THAt MAN AS HIS A 1NER• AS HIS VlCE•PRESIJENT. ANI NUMIE TMRU. IF TRE WORST SHOW.J HAPPEN" tHAT OU NATION WOULI NOT I FOUNI lTHOUt A ORTHY SUCCESSO .t IECAUSt JOHNSON lS A PAT lOT. Ht•s NOT JUST A JEMOCRAt. YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPU THINK THAT WHEN HE TALKS AIOUT NATIONAL UNlTY" AIOUT A REAT~ U lt£1 NATION~ TMAT THIS IS PO~ITlCA~ TALK•

-- . .

t•vt SAT Rl(;HT IN THIS OfFICE WITH HlM WHEN Mt HA T.EARS lN MIS

EYES TEN YEARS AGO TiiJ.-lN(; ME THE SAME THIN~;. 1 K OW THIS FE&..LOW. Ht lEAL~Y MEANS It. Hi lil.lEVIS IT ANI t•M CONVINCiJ OF ON THlNa, H£ 1S NOT GOING TO SEJ..ICT ANY MAN FOR TH£ OFFICE OF VlCJ:•PIISiiENT

JUSt TO Pl.tAS£ A PARTICULA FACTION OR GROUP OR TO JUST SORT OF

IAJ.J.ANCt OFF • HE'S eoiNc; TO SELECT SOMEIOJY Hi CAN WORK WITH,. LIY£

WlTH1 THAT HE CAN 'TRUST . ., TKAT .HE KNOWS UNJ£RSTANIS POt.ltlCS., .ANI

THAT Mt THINKS HAS THE UAl.ltliS SOMEWHERE NEAR AT l.EAST OF IEJN~ AILE TO ASSUKt TH£ IUfti[NS OF THE OFFICI OF THE PRESIIENCY IN CAS£

IT KAPPIN£1. 1 JON'T KNOW Of ANYIOIY THAT FITS Al,.L THAT PICTURE, UT MAYI£ KI'LL flNJ HIM.

t: tO YOU THINK ME WOULI HAVE TO ;o OUTSlJI TH£ li:MOCRATIC PARTY TO TlNJ SUCH A MAN?

S N. HUMPHR Y: 1 WOUL.J HOP£ NOT. I WOUJ..t HOPi NOT. I THINK THE PAttT'i IES£RV£S TO HAVE A M£MIE:R OF THE PARTY, •ur AGAIN l JON1 T SAY

- THIS IS AN AISOLUTi RitUIREilENT• IUT l THINK PRESIJ£NT JOHNSON UNIERStANIS THIS• PRISllt T JOHNSON UNJERSTANIS THIS WD...L ENOUGH tO KNOW WHAT KE NEElS TO 10.

Q: StEWINSON REALLY MAli A RACE OUT OF THE VIC£ P iSlltNTJA~

NOMINATION IN 19''•••• $iN• HUMPHJtiYI OH., OF COURSEt FINAl..l.Y, YOU KNOW., H.£ THREW TK£

WHOL£ THIN~ OPEN AT TMt CONVtNTlON. YOU MAY REST ASSUIEt tHAT P £SilENT JOHNSON WON'T JO TRAT.

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