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Gwadar May LoseGwadar May Lose

Business To IranianBusiness To Iranian

Port Of ChabaharPort Of ChabaharStarted by Started by BaburMissile BaburMissile , , Feb 26 2009Feb 26 2009

1 0:08 AM1 0:08 AM

BaburMissileBaburMissile

Thursday, February 26, 2009

By Hina Mahgul Rind

KARACHI: The Gwadar Port that was envisioned to become a trans-shipment port and

shipping hub for the landlocked Central Asian States (CAS), Afghanistan and Western China

may lose this opportunity to the fast developing Iranian port of Chabahar, a Gwadar Port

official said.

The Gwadar Port is yet to become fully operational. The running of the port affairs was given

to Port of Singapore Authority (PSA), one of the biggest port operators, so that it will fetch

considerable business for making Gwadar Port a success.

The PSA has not fulfilled its business plan of making the port fully operational by 2008. The

PSA says the government has failed to provide basic infrastructure including road and rail

links that are the main impediments in Gwadar Port development.

To ensure that the port stays a viable destination the Gwadar Port official suggested resuming

container business immediately even if in small amount through PSA or if they fail through

own resources.

The government should bear the cost of road transportation to resume export activity from

Gwadar Port, he said.

The official suggested restricting PSA to the present terminal and the areas adjacent to the

terminal handed over to them may be retrieved and handed over to Gwadar Port Authority.

The official further said that master plan of Gwadar Port need to be approved, presently it is

approved in principle but nothing so far has been done. Master Plan will protect the entire east

bay and coastline east of Surbandar. By securing Master Plan, the basic theme of converting

Gwadar Port into a hub port will be secured.

In order to attract sustainable business like Afghan Transit Trade or container cargo at

Gwadar Port, one of the viable options is to complete road connectivity of the Port with

Chaman and Afghanistan followed by shifting total or part of Afghan transit trade to Gwadar

Port.

The land required for Free Zone has been dropped due to its high cost (Rs6.7 billion). It is

suggested that the concerned agency at the Federal Government level may be requested to

remand the case to the District Government authorities for review and submission of a

workable plan, the official said.

The construction of East Bay Expressway may be undertaken on a fast track as the present

Posted 2 6 Febr u a r y 2 009 - 1 0:08 A M

Sig n In

Cr ea te A ccou n tCr ea te A ccou n t

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arrangement for passage of the cargo truck within town has lot of repercussions. The

concerned agency may be directed to execute the development work on priority.

According to government official it is justified to extend Rs.585million subsidy to the Gwadar

Port to make it viable. Government supported Port Qasim for ten years to make port fully

functional, he reminded. Similarly this will help the Gwadar Port to operate and serve the

basic purpose of the port and generate revenues and job opportunities for the people.

He further stated that Stevedoring/Clearing/Ship Agency License to be given to locals and

training should be given to the locals in cargo handling to reduce their grievances.

It is learnt that Port of Singapore Authority is trying to attract Afghan Transit Trade and get

mining sector to export copper and chrome from Gwadar Port. In this regard PSA is briefing

the government of Balochistan to work on connectivity.

It is also said that PSA is pursuing the government to add Gwadar Port in Afghan Trade

Notification so that some trade should be started from Gwadar as well.

However ports and shipping industry shows reservation on PSA's role and said that PSA

submitted plan for 40 years specifying business in Gwadar.

According to the PSA business plan the port was to be operational by 50 percent in 2007 and

100 percent in 2008 and had indicated business comprising of coal and container cargo.

The plan also indicated approximate revenue generation for Gwadar Port Authority during

the period 2007 and 2008. But PSA, so far relied totally on TCP to have business and

lucrative subsidies. It has totally failed in bringing in business to Gwadar Port specially

containers.

However PSA says that ports are not run in isolation, port are catalyst for trade and in the

absence of basic infrastructures, free zone industrial areas and most importantly the

connectivity links to the ports which are major hurdles in running the ports. PSA has fulfilled

all agreed requirement but government so far has failed to fulfil the agreed requirements of

the ports.

Source: http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=164529

(http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=164529)

Another gem down the drain I suppose...

maverick1977maverick1977

QUOTE (BaburMissile @ Feb 26 2009, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?

act=findpost&pid=1124134)

Thursday, February 26, 2009

By Hina Mahgul Rind

KARACHI: The Gwadar Port that was envisioned to become a trans-shipment port and

shipping hub for the landlocked Central Asian States (CAS), Afghanistan and Western China

may lose this opportunity to the fast developing Iranian port of Chabahar, a Gwadar Port

official said.

The Gwadar Port is yet to become fully operational. The running of the port affairs was given

to Port of Singapore Authority (PSA), one of the biggest port operators, so that it will fetch

considerable business for making Gwadar Port a success.

The PSA has not fulfilled its business plan of making the port fully operational by 2008. The

PSA says the government has failed to provide basic infrastructure including road and rail

links that are the main impediments in Gwadar Port development.

To ensure that the port stays a viable destination the Gwadar Port official suggested resuming

Posted 2 6 Febr u a r y 2 009 - 1 0:4 9 A M

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=164529

http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?act=findpost&pid=1124134



container business immediately even if in small amount through PSA or if they fail through

own resources.

The government should bear the cost of road transportation to resume export activity from

Gwadar Port, he said.

The official suggested restricting PSA to the present terminal and the areas adjacent to the

terminal handed over to them may be retrieved and handed over to Gwadar Port Authority.

The official further said that master plan of Gwadar Port need to be approved, presently it is

approved in principle but nothing so far has been done. Master Plan will protect the entire east

bay and coastline east of Surbandar. By securing Master Plan, the basic theme of converting

Gwadar Port into a hub port will be secured.

In order to attract sustainable business like Afghan Transit Trade or container cargo at

Gwadar Port, one of the viable options is to complete road connectivity of the Port with

Chaman and Afghanistan followed by shifting total or part of Afghan transit trade to Gwadar

Port.

The land required for Free Zone has been dropped due to its high cost (Rs6.7 billion). It is

suggested that the concerned agency at the Federal Government level may be requested to

remand the case to the District Government authorities for review and submission of a

workable plan, the official said.

The construction of East Bay Expressway may be undertaken on a fast track as the present

arrangement for passage of the cargo truck within town has lot of repercussions. The

concerned agency may be directed to execute the development work on priority.

According to government official it is justified to extend Rs.585million subsidy to the Gwadar

Port to make it viable. Government supported Port Qasim for ten years to make port fully

functional, he reminded. Similarly this will help the Gwadar Port to operate and serve the

basic purpose of the port and generate revenues and job opportunities for the people.

He further stated that Stevedoring/Clearing/Ship Agency License to be given to locals and

training should be given to the locals in cargo handling to reduce their grievances.

It is learnt that Port of Singapore Authority is trying to attract Afghan Transit Trade and get

mining sector to export copper and chrome from Gwadar Port. In this regard PSA is briefing

the government of Balochistan to work on connectivity.

It is also said that PSA is pursuing the government to add Gwadar Port in Afghan Trade

Notification so that some trade should be started from Gwadar as well.

However ports and shipping industry shows reservation on PSA's role and said that PSA

submitted plan for 40 years specifying business in Gwadar.

According to the PSA business plan the port was to be operational by 50 percent in 2007 and

100 percent in 2008 and had indicated business comprising of coal and container cargo.

The plan also indicated approximate revenue generation for Gwadar Port Authority during

the period 2007 and 2008. But PSA, so far relied totally on TCP to have business and

lucrative subsidies. It has totally failed in bringing in business to Gwadar Port specially

containers.

However PSA says that ports are not run in isolation, port are catalyst for trade and in the

absence of basic infrastructures, free zone industrial areas and most importantly the

connectivity links to the ports which are major hurdles in running the ports. PSA has fulfilled

all agreed requirement but government so far has failed to fulfil the agreed requirements of

the ports.

Source: http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=164529

(http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=164529)

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=164529



Another gem down the drain I suppose...

agree railroad link is very important, it saves the cost of transporting oil to karachi by ship

and will embark oil in gwadar and transported to rest of country by trains...

work should be done to make china pak railway link to kashgar as well.

PakHonourPakHonour

I dont see how Gwadar will lose business to the Iranian port in western China and the eastern

countries of Central Asia, but generally speaking we probably will be competing for business

with Iran for Central Asian business. Afaik, some Central Asian countries like Uzbekistan and

Kyrgyzstan have already shown their interest in Gwadar. Iran doesnt have a border with

China, so all Chinese business belongs to Gwadar too.

Hopefully Pak Govt will take these reports seriously and do more to secure all Central Asian

business. imo Gwadar is already headed towards being a massive success, most likely much

bigger than Karachi.

Posted 2 6 Febr u a r y 2 009 - 1 2 :1 2 PM

aziqbalaziqbal

gwader is really so overated, the cranes and thugs are pretty much useless on large cargo ships

and many ships dock off shore because gwader lacks true deep port capability

also we get nothing but wheat imports from there which are loaded onto trucks theres no

container terminal and gwader city itself has nothing but a run down 5 star hotel

if u want to see real port on Arabian Gulf look at the massive Jebal Ali port

Posted 2 6 Febr u a r y 2 009 - 03 :3 4 PM

PakHonourPakHonour

QUOTE (aziqbal @ Feb 26 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?







The whole point is to develop Gwadar and make it a massive port. I am sure Jebal Ali port

didnt pop up over night.

Gwadar is not over rated. It is key to our future influence over Central Asia and even further

ties with China. The entire Western China and Central Asia are regions largely

underdeveloped because of their land locked status and Gwadar will help these regions to

prosperity. Inshallah Pakistan will have a massive influence in Central Asia as their economies

will depend entirely on our ports.

You wouldnt call it over rated if you discovered how much this port worries India and

America. Their reasons for supporting Free Baluchistan would be to cut off this strategic

region from Pakistan.

Gwadar will make Pakistan a regional power and severely limit Indian influence in the region.

It stands in the way of their regional dominance dreams...





PAKPATRIOTPAKPATRIOT

QUOTE (PakHonour @ Feb 26 2009, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?














Very accurate post. Well said brother............


ManglaMangla

Iran is sanctioned by all the western powers and mid east nations do not trust Iran. Not really

a vote of confidence of Iranian port.

Seperately Gwader is a long term project, not some short term project. Only the ignorant think

it would be revolutionary in such a short time.


SalimSalim

I think that there is real threat and Pakistan should work quick developing Gwadar port and

building transport links. Actually Chabahar could be more preferable port for central Asian

countries, not only due to distance and efficient transport links, but most countries would try

to avoid their goods passing through Afghanistan, a lawless country. Problem is that Chabahar

could also become more preferable port for China unless Pakistan do something in transport

sector quickly by laying rail tracks from Gwadar to China (quite difficult keeping in mind

difficult terrain on both sides of Pakistan-China border).

Iran with their huge energy resources has highly developed and subsidised transport system.

So, transport cost of goods from Chabahar to their northern city Mashhad would be quite

cheap and fast. Mashhad is next door to most Central Asian countries and even Dushanbe

(Tajikistan). Tajikistan has border with China and once goods can reach Dushanbe, reaching

China (Kashgar) would not be problem.

I believe that Kashgar (China) is closest Chinese city on eastern China that may handle goods.

Most surprising thing is that, it seems Chabahar to Kashgar (China) would be similar in

distance (taking account terrain and laying of rail tracks) but easier route than Gawdar to

Kashgar (China). Only difference is that, Pakistan has border with China but Iran has 3

countries in between (Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan). So, before Chabahar to

China route get established, Pakistan has to provide secure and efficient route to get into

business. On the other hand, since trade volume would be huge, I think that both ports would

be successful working at their full capacity.


Gripen87Gripen87

Advantages of Gwadar compared to Chabahar

Posted 2 7 Febr u a r y 2 009 - 01 :4 4 A M




1. Chinese are helping us build Gwadar so it doesnt make sense for them to go to Iran (to

Salim)

2. All 5 CAR are located closer to Gwadar than the Irani port

3. Problem with Afghanistan really will only hurt our trade with Turkmenistan but the small

patch between Tajikistan and Pakistan is not so significant and Pakistan will still hold on to the

trade for 4/5 CAR.

4. China is our insurence and not to mention that Singapore Port Authority are much more

professional port operators than Iran.

5. Iran is under constant danger of being attacked by U.S/Israel and so it will not be trusted

with safety of continuous trade.

Disadvantage

1. Political instability is the biggest threat to Pakistan

2. How much this government tends to concentrate on Gwadar is also a big factor.

aziqbalaziqbal

QUOTE (PakHonour @ Feb 26 2009, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?














Gwader will only be sucessful if it is connected to the rest of the countrys, roads and railways

are the lifeline of a port, making a port for the sake of a port is worthless! Gwader is not even

connected yet to China for which it was intended.

On the other hand Iran has connected to all its neighbours all the way to Europe with road and

railway thats why they have export value much more than Pakistan with less than half

Pakistan population.

Iranian railway connections

Link to Central Asia and Russia

In recent years the railways have undergone significant extensions including the 1977 linking

to the western railway system at the Turkish border, the 1993 opening of the Bandar Abbas

line providing better access to the sea, and the 1996 opening of the Mashad–Sarakhs branch

as part of the Silk Road railway to link to the landlocked Central Asian Countries. Former

states of the Soviet Union have railways using a wider gauge, thus the Iranian Railways

maintain break-of-gauge services at borders to Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan, and beyond

brief wide-track rail segments to the border crossing. In 2007, Russian Railways, Iranian

Railways and Azerbaijani State Railways agreed on implementing the project to build a new

line between Qazvin, Resht, Astara, Iran and Astara, Azerbaijan. In 2008, plans have been





made to connect Kazakstan to Iran via Turkmenistan.

Links to Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan

Iran extends its railway system to Iraq and Syria(01-2007)Also under construction are the

Khorramshahr–Basra and the Kermanshah-Baghdad line as a link with southern and northern

Iraq and a line connecting from Mashad to Herat in Afghanistan in the Eastern part of the

country.

International Standard Gauge route to Europe

The route to the west into Turkey terminates at Van with a 90km (55 mile) train ferry for both

freight wagons and international passenger traffic (baggage car only) across Lake Van, which

is at an altitude of 1650m (5,413 feet), to Tatvan. The standard gauge route continues via

Ankara to Istanbul via another train ferry between the Haydarapasa terminus on the eastern

side of the Bosphorus and the Sirkeci terminus on the European shore. This crossing will be

bypassed by the Marmaray Crossing, a dual track rail tunnel, due to open in 2009.

aziqbalaziqbal

QUOTE (Salim @ Feb 26 2009, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


I think that there is real threat and Pakistan should work quick developing Gwadar port and

building transport links. Actually Chabahar could be more preferable port for central Asian

countries, not only due to distance and efficient transport links, but most countries would try

to avoid their goods passing through Afghanistan, a lawless country. Problem is that Chabahar

could also become more preferable port for China unless Pakistan do something in transport

sector quickly by laying rail tracks from Gwadar to China (quite difficult keeping in mind

difficult terrain on both sides of Pakistan-China border).

Iran with their huge energy resources has highly developed and subsidised transport system.

So, transport cost of goods from Chabahar to their northern city Mashhad would be quite

cheap and fast. Mashhad is next door to most Central Asian countries and even Dushanbe

(Tajikistan). Tajikistan has border with China and once goods can reach Dushanbe, reaching

China (Kashgar) would not be problem.

I believe that Kashgar (China) is closest Chinese city on eastern China that may handle goods.

Most surprising thing is that, it seems Chabahar to Kashgar (China) would be similar in

distance (taking account terrain and laying of rail tracks) but easier route than Gawdar to

Kashgar (China). Only difference is that, Pakistan has border with China but Iran has 3

countries in between (Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan). So, before Chabahar to

China route get established, Pakistan has to provide secure and efficient route to get into

business. On the other hand, since trade volume would be huge, I think that both ports would

be successful working at their full capacity.

in theory yes in reality no, if borders meant higher trade then Pakistan should be Chinas

largest trade partner but its not, Angola on the West coast of Africa has a $25 billion trade

with China compared to pakistans shocking $6 billion


BaburMissileBaburMissile






Shocking indeed! Thanks for the figures. Pakistan is in dire need of improving trade with

China and other East Asian countries. This is just pathetic. Gwadar should have top priority!






Wing CommanderWing Commander






isn't that primarily due to the oil in Angola?

Posted 2 8 Febr u a r y 2 009 - 04 :01 A M

SalimSalim

QUOTE (Gripen87 @ Feb 27 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


Advantages of Gwadar compared to Chabahar

1. Chinese are helping us build Gwadar so it doesnt make sense for them to go to Iran (to

Salim)

It makes sense, because China would like to have as many alternative trade routes as possible,

just like Pakistan want to have Gwadar when they already have Karachi.

QUOTE

2. All 5 CAR are located closer to Gwadar than the Irani port

3. Problem with Afghanistan really will only hurt our trade with Turkmenistan but the small

patch between Tajikistan and Pakistan is not so significant and Pakistan will still hold on to the

trade for 4/5 CAR.

Please do not write on perceptions and assumptions. Check world map, country’s borders,

terrain, cities that can handle goods, and DISTANCE.

QUOTE

4. China is our insurence and not to mention that Singapore Port Authority are much more

professional port operators than Iran.

There is no insurance in international trade but interest. China bi-lateral trade with Iran is

over $20 billion (Last year, China imported over $12 billion from Iran and exported over $8

billion to Iran). Actually, China wants secure land route for their oil imports, as in time of war

(if happens), USA could easily block all Chinese oil imports from sea. There are only few

countries that are not under American influence and can supply oil/gas to China using land

route, and they are Russia and Iran (plus Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan when their oil fields

develops). [For Pakistan, there is only one country, Iran].

QUOTE

5. Iran is under constant danger of being attacked by U.S/Israel and so it will not be trusted

with safety of continuous trade.

I don’t know, but I doubt if US or Israel would ever attack perceived nuclear capable Iran.

[There are believes in west that Iran already holds several nuclear devices bought from

Kazakistan just after Russia collapsed, plus their own nuclear program has already passed

dangerous level ... plus, Iran also have nuclear capable missiles ... some of them could be ex-

Russian ballistic missiles that can reach most of Europe]. In present situation trade routes

through Iran for China or Central Asian countries are more secure than trade routes through

Pakistan where retarded Zombies are blowing themselves and anything that moves.

QUOTE

Disadvantage

1. Political instability is the biggest threat to Pakistan

Posted 2 8 Febr u a r y 2 009 - 06 :2 3 A M





2. How much this government tends to concentrate on Gwadar is also a big factor.

I do not think that there is any disadvantage in developing Gwadar, though there are some

hurdles. Biggest hurdle is will of ruling politicians who would like to plunder resources, rather

spend it on development projects. Gwader port once developed, with network of transport

connections to other parts of Pakistan, it would not be only good for international trade, but it

would be an important port for Pakistan too. Quicker Gwadar port develops and quicker

Pakistan connects Gawdar port with other parts of Pakistan, the better.

Gripen87Gripen87

QUOTE (Salim @ Feb 28 2009, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


Please do not write on perceptions and assumptions. Check world map, country’s borders,

terrain, cities that can handle goods, and DISTANCE.

Assumptions?

Here do your own research, ill provide you the tools

Map of Gwadar and Chabahar: Link

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TlX8EZcNmlk/SYXRJ67RoYI/AAAAAAAAAcM/nAjGzyfGCZ

w/s400/chabahar_gwadar.gif)

Measure Distances on a map: Link (http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm)

^^ Scroll down and you'll see instructions on how to measure

1. I hope we can agree that not a single city in Tajikistan and Kyrgyztan is closer to Chabahar

then Gwadar.

2. All major cities in Uzbekistan inlcuding Andijon, Buhoro, Namangan and Toskent are

located closer to Gwadar. Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uzbekistan_map.jpg)

3. All major cities of Kazakhstan including Astan ,Almaty, Karaganda, Oskemen, Pavlodar,

Shymkent, and Taraz are located closer to Gwadar port. Link

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan-CIA_WFB_Map.png)

4. For Turkmensitan 2 major cities including the capital are closer to Iran and the other 2 are

located closer to Pakistan. So I'll give you Turkmenistan because it's obviously bordering

Iran.

Thats 4/5 countries for you

QUOTE (Salim @ Feb 28 2009, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


don’t know, but I doubt if US or Israel would ever attack perceived nuclear capable Iran.

[There are believes in west that Iran already holds several nuclear devices bought from

Kazakistan just after Russia collapsed, plus their own nuclear program has already passed

dangerous level ... plus, Iran also have nuclear capable missiles ... some of them could be ex-

Russian ballistic missiles that can reach most of Europe]. In present situation trade routes

through Iran for China or Central Asian countries are more secure than trade routes through

Pakistan where retarded Zombies are blowing themselves and anything that moves.

That is just your assumption....



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TlX8EZcNmlk/SYXRJ67RoYI/AAAAAAAAAcM/nAjGzyfGCZw/s400/chabahar_gwadar.gif

http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uzbekistan_map.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan-CIA_WFB_Map.png




aziqbalaziqbal

QUOTE (Wing Commander @ Feb 28 2009, 05:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


isn't that primarily due to the oil in Angola?

does it matter? fact is they have 4 times the trade with China that Pakistan has irrespective of

what is it should Pakistan not be exporting coal to China?


rasahmadrasahmad

It is still not too late for Gawadar to become a major port but the problem we have that we

can't build a single mile of railway line without Chinies help (example Karachi Circular railway

which was already functional we can not revive) witout road and rail link port is use less.

Second which is major hinderance is security of transported goods, our dear Taliban and Al

quida will make it sure that it fail and Pakistan stay in stone age like them.


ManglaMangla

QUOTE (rasahmad @ Feb 28 2009, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


It is still not too late for Gawadar to become a major port but the problem we have that we

can't build a single mile of railway line without Chinies help (example Karachi Circular railway

which was already functional we can not revive) witout road and rail link port is use less.

Second which is major hinderance is security of transported goods, our dear Taliban and Al

quida will make it sure that it fail and Pakistan stay in stone age like them.

Patience.

M4 motorway is nearing completion. Its a long term project, even if it takes twenty years to

become big as Karachi it would still be worth it.


aziqbalaziqbal

QUOTE (Mangla @ Feb 28 2009, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


Patience.

M4 motorway is nearing completion. Its a long term project, even if it takes twenty years to

become big as Karachi it would still be worth it.

M4? is that not Faisalabad to Multan did u mean M8 from Gwader?


wasim80wasim80

To be honest here, I dont think the current government led by Asif Ali Zardari is taking

Gwadar very seriously.

Our dreams of what we had for Gwadar may not come into reality.


wasim80wasim80

Gwadar Port faces sea of problems

Sunday, March 01, 2009

By Hina Mahgul Rind







KARACHI: Since coming into operation in December 2008, it has been learnt that the Gwadar

Port has been plagued with a host of problems such as transportation of goods into the area.

Transportation became a problem in particular after the arrival of ships carrying urea. “There

is no shortage of transport, but a few contractors have monopoly in the area, which in turn is

causing a price hike, among other things,” said an official.

In addition to the price hike, the official explained that in Gwadar trucks carrying cargo have

no stand to park in, which has resulted in heavy traffic congestion in the city.

“Because there is no truck stand anywhere, heavy vehicles are parked on the roads, leading to

congested traffic,” he said. “The safety and security of pedestrians as well as of local traffic is

compromised.”

It has been learnt that a truck stand is being planned by the Gwadar Development Authority,

but so far progress has been very slow.

As well as being without a truck stand, the port lacks direct access to the Coastal Highway. The

East Bay Expressway, a project of the Gwadar Port Authority, aims to remedy the situation,

but even here there has been little progress. If successful, the East Bay Expressway will aid a

smooth flow of vehicles not only in the port area, but also further inside the city.

Currently, the Coastal Highway itself is burdened with additional problems. While many of the

heavy vehicles approaching Gwadar are without cargo, a large number of vehicles are

overloaded. Officials say that overloading is not a problem with urea, but it is with wheat,

which has 50 per cent more weight in the same volume as urea.

Allegedly, the Coastal Highway was built in a hurry with builders compromising on quality.

Those involved in the business warn that if the trend of overloading continues, the highway

may not be able to sustain the traffic for much longer.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=165013

(http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=165013)

wasim80wasim80

Pending housing projects in Gwadar irk investors

Friday, February 27, 2009

By By Faryal Najeeb

KARACHI: The future of real estate projects in Gwadar seems bleak as the government

continues to pay little heed to the scams rampant in the region.

Sales Manager of Canadian City Gwadar, Azam Khilji, said most housing projects in the area

are at stake since potential investors have lost all interest in the area. He said those who had

invested earlier are still suffering because the projects have come to a standstill. “We now

say that Gwadar has been left at the mercy of God because there is no hope for

the projects there.”

Khilji also said the steadily deteriorating law and order situation in the country has put

investors off, especially the increasing unrest in Quetta. He was of the view that if the

government tried to finish pending projects, then more investors would be willing to come

forward.

According to analyst Shahbaz Mukhtar, Gwadar was brought to the limelight by the

government in 2004 with the vision of turning it into a bustling port city. Thus, a plethora of

housing societies were launched and real estate prices shot up from as low as Rs500,000 to


http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=165013



about Rs5 million.

It was then that many investments were turned into housing schemes by local investors in

2004, Mukhtar explained. After 2005, the hype died down a little but when Gwadar Port was

revived in 2007, the prices shot up once again.

Mukhtar said it was because of the deteriorating economic conditions, after the assassination

of Benazir Bhutto, that the projects in Gwadar became a distant dream. “The prices have fallen

once again,” he lamented.

An investor, who wished to remain anonymous, said he had invested in one of the housing

projects in Gwadar, the Creek City, which is situated near the Governor House. The project,

he said, was launched in 2004 and he was one of the first people to invest in a 1,000 square

yard corner plot meant for residential purposes. As the property prices appreciated over a

period of three to four months, he said, the plot allocated to him was put somewhere in the

middle of the society.

When the investor protested, the management of Creek City offered to return him his initial

investment which he declined at that time. However, since then the plot allocation plans have

been changed four times, he added. Worst still is the fact that his initial 1,000 square yard plot

has now been reduced to 400 square yards because the society requires wider roads and other

amenities. Thus, this compromised the original plans.

Furthermore, the society is now quite commercialised with fewer housing plots, once again

not in line with the original plans. Thus, he felt that the Gwadar Development Authority was

fully aware of these facts and threatened to take the management to court for fraud.

The management then tried to bribe him with another plot of 400 square yards in Creek City

Phase II near the Iran coastal highway. However, he refused pointing out that documents of

the second scheme also seemed shady and consisted of clauses with loopholes.

He was asked to wait till a settlement could be reached which was almost six months ago. The

investor admitted that he had never visited Gwadar personally and said when the government

launched the project, he just went there with the money to invest.

Meanwhile, real estate prices in Dubai also started rising at the same time (when he made the

investment in Gwadar). Still, he preferred Gwadar because he said it would be beneficial to the

country.

“This is how I get rewarded for investing in the country. There are many others like me who

have been left in the lurch. Who do we turn to?”

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=164704

(http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=164704)

wasim80wasim80

Nawaz Sharif came up with the idea of Gwadar Port, Musharraf worked hard on

Gwadar Port, and now Zardari's government are destroying our dreams we had

for Gwadar Port.


sobanksobank

excuse me but it doesnt years and years just to make road. chinese built the 1000km of

impossible track in just 5 fracking years. watch documentary of it and you will be "how the

fuc|( they did it?". And we dont have a link rail for gawadar.

Say whatever you want. I dont think Pakistan is actually interested in it. i mean spare me from

the enthusiastic sh|t and construction boundaries. In the end it just shows that we ourselves

are not interested.


http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=164704



15 fuc|(ing years to built? are they freaking building a china wall??? its just a simple ######

port. Enough. Lets just admit it guys.

wasim80wasim80

QUOTE (sobank @ Feb 28 2009, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


excuse me but it doesnt years and years just to make road. chinese built the 1000km of

impossible track in just 5 fracking years. watch documentary of it and you will be "how the

fuc|( they did it?". And we dont have a link rail for gawadar.

Say whatever you want. I dont think Pakistan is actually interested in it. i mean spare me from

the enthusiastic sh|t and construction boundaries. In the end it just shows that we ourselves

are not interested.

15 fuc|(ing years to built? are they freaking building a china wall??? its just a simple ######

port. Enough. Lets just admit it guys.

Pakistan is intersted in this port, the majority of Pakistanis want this port to happen, its

ZARDARI'S GOVERNMENT that doesn't want this to happen or maybe they are too lazy to

work on the project.

Like a lot of Pakistanis, when I heard about Gwadar Port being taken seriously in 2002 I was

very excited and I thought it's not that long that Gwadar Port would be the hub of

international trade and Pakistan can finally prosper....Zardari's rule in the country demolished

all my dreams.

Did you know that India just finished a road link connecting Chabahar to Kabul? The only

reason why Indians are working day and night on Chabahar is so Gwadar fails, they are

working to isolate Pakistan and Zardari's government is letting the Indian people's dreams

come into reality but he's destroying Pakistani people's dreams.


_killuminati__killuminati_








If you want to see the potential of real profits yielding from lowered freight expenses, take a

look at this map:

Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 04 :1 4 A M





This rough sketch should help you out:

This topic has already been discussed before thoroughly.

http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.ph...c=55706&hl=

(http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?showtopic=55706&hl=)

I think the current government in power is an obstacle to progress in Gwadar.

sobanksobank

forgive me but the truth is that zardari just came last year. general saab was sitting there with

full control till jan 2008 and not a single railway link in 6 years. the work did not even started.

If, for the argument sake, port would have been operational in 2008, how the hell the

transportation was going to be done? trucks cost sh|t load.

Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 04 :5 3 A M


QUOTE (sobank @ Mar 1 2009, 05:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


forgive me but the truth is that zardari just came last year. general saab was sitting there with

full control till jan 2008 and not a single railway link in 6 years. the work did not even started.

If, for the argument sake, port would have been operational in 2008, how the hell the

transportation was going to be done? trucks cost sh|t load.

It would be stupid to build a railway link when there is little demand for it.

China is more interested in the project than Pakistan, as it has more to lose.

Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 04 :5 8 A M

FeliciusFelicius

Sobank, you're talking enginering.

The rest are talking finance, including ROI.

Unless there is no industrialization, the train is not worth it.

It would be like our twice weekly empty flights to Bejing.

As for the port construction goes, we were digging the sea bed, aisey hi deepest port nahi bana

Gawadar.

Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 07 :4 5 A M

SalimSalim

QUOTE (Gripen87 @ Feb 28 2009, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 08 :3 5 A M

http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?showtopic=55706&hl=





Assumptions?

Here do your own research, ill provide you the tools

Map of Gwadar and Chabahar: Link

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TlX8EZcNmlk/SYXRJ67RoYI/AAAAAAAAAcM/nAjGzyfGCZ

w/s400/chabahar_gwadar.gif)

Measure Distances on a map: Link (http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm)

^^ Scroll down and you'll see instructions on how to measure

1. I hope we can agree that not a single city in Tajikistan and Kyrgyztan is closer to Chabahar

then Gwadar.

2. All major cities in Uzbekistan inlcuding Andijon, Buhoro, Namangan and Toskent are

located closer to Gwadar. Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uzbekistan_map.jpg)

3. All major cities of Kazakhstan including Astan ,Almaty, Karaganda, Oskemen, Pavlodar,

Shymkent, and Taraz are located closer to Gwadar port. Link

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan-CIA_WFB_Map.png)

4. For Turkmensitan 2 major cities including the capital are closer to Iran and the other 2 are

located closer to Pakistan. So I'll give you Turkmenistan because it's obviously bordering

Iran.

Thats 4/5 countries for you

I think you are genius. You should work for Transport Company. I am sure that you would

quote freight cost from ‘Karachi to Kabul’ or even ‘Karachi to Peshawar’ cheaper then ‘Karachi

to Islamabad’, because your distance calculation would show less distance from ‘Karachi to

Kabul’ than ‘Karachi to Islamabad’.

It seems you do not know that travelling distance and best route for travelling of humans as

well as goods do not depend on straight-line distance but depends on terrain, facility available

(transport facilities in between journey, quality of transport, cost of transport), as well as

destination where facilities of departing and clearance of goods are available (not border), etc.

If you will read my post carefully, you will notice that I mentioned ‘Chabahar-Iran’ to

‘Mashhad-Iran’ as first movement of goods even for Chinese goods ... not Chabahar to China

through Afghanistan (because that route is non-existent). On the other hand, if one looks at

‘straight line distance’ from Chabahar to ‘Central Asian republic’ or ‘China’ ... or Gawder to

‘Central Asian republic’ or China’, than both are almost same (few miles difference at most).

Actually, no intelligent person in Iran or Pakistan see Gawder and Chabahar as competitive

ports, but all see them facilitating ports that could share trade load of Central Asian Republics

and China. Only, unaware or ignorant writes in newspapers and articles that both ports are

going to compete with each other and future success of one depends on failure of other.

QUOTE

That is just your assumption....

No, it is not my assumption but it is what West perceives. Though there are many documents

that would confirm what I wrote, I found one here ... that tells about all countries who are

nuclear, assumed to be nuclear, can become nuclear, or are eagerly trying to become nuclear

capable.... published in Aug 2001. By March 2009, I believe Iran must have made much more

progress in this respect:

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq7-3.html#Iran

(http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq7-3.html#Iran)

7.3.2 Iran

.........

There was a reported attempt in 1994 to purchase weapons-grade uranium from the Ulba (or

Ublinsky) Metallurgical Plant in Kazakhstan. The U.S. later removed some 600 kg of HEU

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TlX8EZcNmlk/SYXRJ67RoYI/AAAAAAAAAcM/nAjGzyfGCZw/s400/chabahar_gwadar.gif

http://www.freemaptools.com/measure-distance.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uzbekistan_map.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan-CIA_WFB_Map.png

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq7-3.html#Iran



from Kazakhstan in Operation Sapphire, but the material had been poorly guarded for up to

two years prior, so complete recovery of all HEU cannot be assured. However claims widely

circulated in previous years that Iran had stolen two nuclear weapons from the post-Soviet

stockpile in Kazakhstan have been completely discredited.

A September 1997 report from Jane's International Defense Review relates unsubstantiated

reports of Iran hiring nuclear experts from Russia and South Africa.

The most striking allegation came on 9 April 1998, when the Jerusalem Post reported that

Iranian government documents obtained by intelligence sources had revealed that Iran

received several nuclear warheads from a former Soviet republic in the early 1990s and that

Russian experts were maintaining them.

According to the Post, the documents were deemed authentic by US congressional experts

and contain correspondence between Iranian government officials and leaders of the

Revolutionary Guards that discusses Iran's successful efforts to obtain nuclear warheads from

former Soviet republics.

"At this point, we can't say for certain whether these are genuine," a senior Israeli source

quoted by the Post said, "But they look awfully real." A US government consultant said he is

certain of the authenticity of the documents. "They are real and we have had them for years,"

he said.

The documents appear to bolster reports from 1992 that Iran received enriched uranium and

up to four nuclear warheads from Kazakhstan, with help from the Russian underworld.

A detailed account of the Iranian effort, released on January 20, 1992, by the US Task Force

on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare of the House Republican Research Committee,

asserted that by the end of 1991 there was a "98 percent certainty that Iran already had all [or

virtually all] of the components required for two to three operational nuclear weapons [aerial

bombs and SSM warheads] made with parts purchased in the ex-Soviet Moslem republics."

"I didn't give these reports credibility at the time," said Shai Feldman, director of Tel Aviv

University's Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies to the Post. "It seemed like the kind of

information that the Iranian opposition put out. There were specific queries made and

everybody said there was no evidence of a warhead transfer."

An Iranian document obtained by the Post, dated 26 December 1991, describes this

acquisition of nuclear devices. In this document Brig.-Gen. Rahim Safavi, deputy commander

of the Revolutionary Guards Council, discusses a meeting with Dr. Riza Amrullahi, Iran's vice

president and head of its Atomic Energy Commission in which he tells Amrullahi that "two war

materiel of nuclear nature" had arrived from Russia and were being held by the guards.

Amrullahi, Safavi reports, said the "efforts of the Islamic Republic's intelligence forces, which

lasted 24 hours a day, have borne fruit and two tactical atomic weapons from Russia have

been delivered to Iranian sources in the Astara region." The report adds that "they paid $25

millions for these weapons of a tactical nature." In a handwritten message at the bottom of the

document, an Iranian intelligence official identified as Issa Pour writes, "Tell engineer Amir

Amruhalli that it is forbidden to discuss this subject even with brothers of high rank, for such a

discussion could only endanger the interests of the Islamic Republic."

Another document, dated 6 January 1992, from somebody identified as Engineer Turkan,

chairman of the defense industries, reports that after an "investigation into the subject of the

weapons delivered to the Lavizan industries, it has become clear their covers contain a safety

mechanism that makes them impossible to use."

Turkan said the only way to make the weapons operational is to "find a way to bring the

experts from the country in which they were produced and to remove the covers."

He also expressed dissatisfaction with the level of work of technicians from Argentina

employed by the Iranian defense industries. "Turkan called the Argentinians lazy, greedy, and

egotistical," the document reads. "He expressed hope that that the group of experts from

Russia that arrived in Iran will not cause these problems."



According to the Post, the Israeli government acknowledged receipt of the Iranian

governments, but would not vouch for their veracity. "We are studying the documents," said

David Bar-Illan, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's communications director. "We're

neither confirming nor denying this [the contents of the document]."

Moshe Fox, director of the North American division of Israel's Foreign Ministry, said he had

no comment on the report itself. "What we do know is that the Iranians are in the process of

creating a prototype, but how far they have gotten we do not know," Fox said.

...........

......

...........

Like other suspected nuclear weapon seeking states, Iran has also been actively pursuing

ballistic missile technology. In July 1998 Iran test-fired a missile dubbed the Shehab-3 with a

range of 1,300 kilometers. Despite Iranian Defense Minister Ali Shamkhani's assertion that

the Shehab-3 "is absolutely domestically produced and has no assistance from any foreign

country," the Shehab-3 is believed to be based on the North Korean No-Dong missile. The

Shehab-3 could reach targets in Israel, Saudi Arabia, much of Turkey and portions of Russia,

and is expected to enter service by the end of 1999.

Iran is also developing in parallel a more sophisticated weapon with a range of more than

2,000 kilometers called Shehab-4. Unlike the Shehab-3, the Shehab-4 is entirely a product of

Russian missile technology. Western intelligence assessments have concluded that it is based

on an obsolete Soviet missile known as the SS-4 missile and predict that development will be

completed within the next two to five years. Iran claimed in February 1999 that the Shehab-4

was going to used as a satellite launcher, a claim that has been questioned due to its limited

size. As a ballistic missile it will have sufficient range to reach much of Europe.

FeliciusFelicius

Salim, you're helping the propogandists.

You're saying exactly what the yanks and the zionists wants the world to beleive, to justify

their strikes, and condemn The Iranis.

Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 09 :5 9 A M

SalimSalim

QUOTE (Shehz @ Mar 1 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


Salim, you're helping the propogandists.

You're saying exactly what the yanks and the zionists wants the world to beleive, to justify

their strikes, and condemn The Iranis.

Shehz: Brother, I posted what is well known in west and I believe that it is true too. After the

fall of USSR, amongst all countries, country that had plenty of dollars, nuclear ambition, close

relationship plus influence in Central Asian Republics was Iran. Kazakhstan was store house

for Russian Nuclear devices and ballistic missiles, where these weapons were left unguarded

for years after Russian collapse. Corruption became rife in Central Asia after Russian collapse.

Any neighbouring country with plenty of dollars, access to these Central Asian countries, and

wanted to acquire the devices, could have got their fill from there (that includes Iran and to

extend Pakistan). Actually, I think that if Iran did not took advantage of Russian collapse and

equipped themselves with nuclear devices, when nuclear devices were there for grab, than

Iranian leadership of that time were bunch of idiots.

As for USA and Israel attacking Iran, do you think that if they could have done that, they had

waited till now? They both have perception that if attacked, Iran has capability to damage

them, and that keeps them restrained. Only thing they want is proof of certainty (not

assumption or perception) that Iran have nuclear devices, so that USA can force world using

UN to put maximum sanction on Iran, and nothing else. But as long as things are based on

assumptions and perceptions (without concrete proof), nothing can be done through UN

easily, and most countries that have no conflict with Iran would not care. Actually, even many

Americans do not care, as I doubt if Iran is any threat to USA, but Israeli lobby in USA has

Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 1 2 :2 9 PM




created perception in some section of American society, that nuclear Iran is threat to USA.

[Concrete proof is very funny thing, and almost impossible to obtain, unless country

confesses or decides to reveal by nuclear detonation, and I doubt if Iran would confess easily

or would reveal their status, even if they have nuclear devices. Pakistan became nuclear in

late 80s, but world could not do anything without concrete proof, until Pakistan themselves

revealed their status with nuclear detonation].

aziqbalaziqbal

QUOTE (_kiLLuminati_ @ Mar 1 2009, 05:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


If you want to see the potential of real profits yielding from lowered freight expenses, take a

look at this map:

This rough sketch should help you out:

This topic has already been discussed before thoroughly.

http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.ph...c=55706&hl=

(http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?showtopic=55706&hl=)

I think the current government in power is an obstacle to progress in Gwadar.

kiLLuminati i am not denying the possible potential of Gwader obvoiusly its a great location

but Pakistan is not utilizing its potential that is the problem

if Gwader was under control of China Jebal Ali would never have enjoyed the unchallanged

dominance it has on the arabian sea

Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 1 2 :4 3 PM

wasim80wasim80

I really hope Zardari's government takes this project very seriously. Gwadar can soooooo

Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 02 :3 7 PM


http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?showtopic=55706&hl=



improve Pakistan's troubling economy.

Gripen87Gripen87

QUOTE (Salim @ Mar 1 2009, 09:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


I think you are genius. You should work for Transport Company. I am sure that you would

quote freight cost from ‘Karachi to Kabul’ or even ‘Karachi to Peshawar’ cheaper then ‘Karachi

to Islamabad’, because your distance calculation would show less distance from ‘Karachi to

Kabul’ than ‘Karachi to Islamabad’.

It seems you do not know that travelling distance and best route for travelling of humans as

well as goods do not depend on straight-line distance but depends on terrain, facility available

(transport facilities in between journey, quality of transport, cost of transport), as well as

destination where facilities of departing and clearance of goods are available (not border), etc.

If you will read my post carefully, you will notice that I mentioned ‘Chabahar-Iran’ to

‘Mashhad-Iran’ as first movement of goods even for Chinese goods ... not Chabahar to China

through Afghanistan (because that route is non-existent). On the other hand, if one looks at

‘straight line distance’ from Chabahar to ‘Central Asian republic’ or ‘China’ ... or Gawder to

‘Central Asian republic’ or China’, than both are almost same (few miles difference at most).

Actually, no intelligent person in Iran or Pakistan see Gawder and Chabahar as competitive

ports, but all see them facilitating ports that could share trade load of Central Asian Republics

and China. Only, unaware or ignorant writes in newspapers and articles that both ports are

going to compete with each other and future success of one depends on failure of other.

I totally forgot, you know the exact terrain, facility availability, cost of transport, quality of

transport, major highways and roads all 5 CAR including Iran and Pakistan have and will be

using to transport shipments and goods. You must be like some super GPS device. What I

provided to you was a rough estimate of geographical distance between major cities of these

countries and not the actual route these countries will be taking to ship their goods. I wasnt

expecting you to even consider anything close to shipment cost and such things from the info

I provided but you assumed otherwise. Pakistan is currently focussing on connecting the road

links between its major cities and Gwadar(Make sure to add that to your super GPS device).

Other countries will also look to build any links necessary if they see high potential in this

port. You can sit here and put Gwadar down as much as you like. In the end if developed the

right way, I believe Gwadar has more potential then Chabahar port does.

As for Iran having nukes, well what you provided still isint enough proof for me. U.S and

Israel have been out to get the Iran so they will do their best to portray Iran as a very

dangerous country. There were alot of articles out their claiming that Iraq had nukes and

guess what happened?

Posted 01 Ma r ch 2 009 - 1 1 :1 6 PM

wasim80wasim80

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabahar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabahar)

Economic significance

Chabahar is the closest and best access point of Iran to the Indian Ocean. For this reason,

Chabahar is the focal point of Iran for development of the east of the country through

expansion and enhancement of transit routes among countries situated in the northern part of

the Indian Ocean and Central Asia. The hope is that with the development of transit routes,

and better security and transit services, the benefits will reach the area residents.

Chabahar's economic sectors are fishery industries and commercial sector, fishery sectors

with largest amount of country's fish catch, mainly located out of the Chabahar Free Trade-

Industrial Zone. Growing commercial sector located at free trade area with high potentiality to

turn to a place that would connect business growth centers in south Asia (India) and Middle

East (Dubai) to central Asian and Afghanistan market. Government plan to link

Chabahar free trade area to Iran's main rail network which is connected to

Posted 02 Ma r ch 2 009 - 01 :4 8 A M


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabahar



central Asia and Afghanistan would provide more capability for Chabahar to

foster faster logistics sector that is a basic to achieve better position comparing

to its competitor (Pakistani port of Gwadar)

Chabahar Port a symbol of the new Iran-India strategic alliance

India is helping develop the Chabahar port and that would give it access to the

oil and gas resources in Iran and the Central Asian states, in this it is competing

with the Chinese which is building the Gwadar port, in Pakistani Baluchistan.

Iran plans to use Chabahar for transhipment to Afghanistan and Central Asia while reserving

the port of Bandar Abbas as a major hub mainly for trade with Russia and Europe.

India, Iran and Afghanistan have signed an agreement to give Indian goods,

heading for Central Asia and Afghanistan, preferential treatment and tariff

reductions at Chabahar

Work on the Chabahar-Melak-Zaranj-Dilaram route from Iran to Afghanistan is

in progress. Iran is with Indian aid upgrading the Chabahar-Melak road and

constructing a bridge on the route to Zaranj. India's BRO is laying the 213-

kilometer Zaranj-Dilaram road. It is a part of its USD 750 million aid package to

Afghanistan.

The advantages that Chabahar has compared to Gwadar are the greater political

stability and security of the Iranian hinterland and the hositlity and mistrust

that the Pakistani Baluchis hold against the Punjabi dominated Pakistani

Federal government. The Baluchis consider Sino-Pak initiative at Gwadar as a

strategy from Islamabad to deny the province its deserved share of

development pie. They also look with suspicion on the settlement of more and

more non-Baluchis in the port area.

The Chabahar port project is Iran's chance to end its US sponsored economic

isolation and benefit form the resurgent Indian economy. Along with Bandar

Abbas, Chabahar is the Iranian entrepot on the North - South corridor. A

strategic partnership between India, Iran and Russia to establish a multi-modal

transport link connecting Mumbai with St. Petersburg. Providing Europe and

the former Soviet republics of Central Asia access to Asia and vice-versa.


QUOTE (aziqbal @ Mar 1 2009, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


kiLLuminati i am not denying the possible potential of Gwader obvoiusly its a great location

but Pakistan is not utilizing its potential that is the problem

if Gwader was under control of China Jebal Ali would never have enjoyed the unchallanged

dominance it has on the arabian sea

Come on now, we have discussed this to death many times before. The Jebel Ali port is mainly

for the Arab markets while Gwadar is for China (and Pakistan), and Chabahar for CAS (and

Iran).

Pakistan is not utilizing anything since the new goverment take-over; lets leave it at that.

QUOTE (Gripen87 @ Mar 2 2009, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


I totally forgot, you know the exact terrain, facility availability, cost of transport, quality of

transport, major highways and roads all 5 CAR including Iran and Pakistan have and will be

using to transport shipments and goods. You must be like some super GPS device. What I

provided to you was a rough estimate of geographical distance between major cities of these

countries and not the actual route these countries will be taking to ship their goods. I wasnt

expecting you to even consider anything close to shipment cost and such things from the info

Posted 02 Ma r ch 2 009 - 07 :3 6 A M





Pa ge 1 of 2 Back to Economy Related Forum

Pa kista n i Defen ce For u m → Socia l In ter a ct ion → Econ om y Rela ted For u m

I provided but you assumed otherwise. Pakistan is currently focussing on connecting the road

links between its major cities and Gwadar(Make sure to add that to your super GPS device).

Other countries will also look to build any links necessary if they see high potential in this

port. You can sit here and put Gwadar down as much as you like. In the end if developed the

right way, I believe Gwadar has more potential then Chabahar port does.

Iran already has rail-links to all CAS, and building one to Chabahar (less than 600km from

existing line).

Chabahar is closer to all CAS states than Gwadar.

PakHonourPakHonour

QUOTE (_kiLLuminati_ @ Mar 2 2009, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?


Come on now, we have discussed this to death many times before. The Jebel Ali port is mainly

for the Arab markets while Gwadar is for China (and Pakistan), and Chabahar for CAS (and

Iran).

Pakistan is not utilizing anything since the new goverment take-over; lets leave it at that.

Iran already has rail-links to all CAS, and building one to Chabahar (less than 600km from

existing line).

Chabahar is closer to all CAS states than Gwadar.

Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan have already shown interest in the Pakistani port. A lot of CARs

will prefer Gwadar, and we should make that option available to them. When considering the

distances involved are roughly the same, then Gwadar and Chabahar might aswell be

competing when it comes to CARs. Pakistani Govt should do everything they can to link

Pakistan with Central Asia.

Posted 02 Ma r ch 2 009 - 09 :4 1 A M


They might have shown interest but Pakistan has neither rail nor direct road links to these

countries. And I doubt Pakistan will be building a rail link with them because the terrain is too

rugged for a distance too long.

Posted 2 5 Ma r ch 2 009 - 1 1 :1 4 PM

usmanakramusmanakram

gwadar doesn't have a busines its failed, due to lack of concern and priority and right

marketing, could be revived tho, should have sold it to the arabs

Posted 2 6 Ma r ch 2 009 - 04 :4 7 A M

http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?showtopic=81126#


http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?s=cb76dcdfeed0ff8cd4fcbb958bd7c746&act=idx




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