Guru-Disciple Relationship

4 Thar Lam APRIL 2008

I was requested to teach Guru devotion and on theGuru-disciple relationship, those were the precisewords used by our dharma sister here, our host. Guru

is translated into Tibetan as Lama. La means “above” andma means “mother,” so somebody who is above you, whoyou respect, learn from, and who cares for you like amother. That is Lama. Lama is for all sentient beings.Then you have your personal Guru from whom you arelearning the dharma.

A Guru became a Guru because he received dharmateachings and practised from his Guru. His Guru becamea Guru because of his Guru, all Gurus, because greatmasters like Marpa describe more than a hundred Gurus.So, from whom you learn the dharma. And that dharmais dharma with a lineage, then it is Guru, your Guru.

I don’t know exactly what the Sanskrit word Gurumeans. Because my monastery is in the middle of forest,when it was being built I mingled with everybody.Carpenters, everybody is working, and they had some kindof metal thing for measuring and they called it guru…(Audience: In Sanskrit Guru means the dispeller ofdarkness, the dispeller of ignorance. Gu is darkness andru is what dispels darkness—the bulb, the light. So for aMason a guru is that which gives him the exactmeasurement and how he can construct something.) Isee, the one who makes it correct. It is symbolicterminology. It means someone who makes things right,someone who shows the way if you don’t know your way.Okay, so that is the Sanskrit terminology and definitionwhich I’m just learning here.

The Guru-Disciple Relationship

HIS EMINENCE TAI SITU RINPOCHE

Essentially GoodCalligraphy by H.E. Tai Situ Rinpoche

Thar Lam APRIL 2008 5

IMPORTANCE OF A GURU

The importance of the Guru is described by Buddhain almost all of his teachings. For example, in tantric

teachings of course every teaching is involved with Gurudevotion and all of that, but even within Mahayanateachings such as the Prajnaparamita teachings the Buddhasays “A good disciple who has devotion to the Guru shouldalways learn and receive from a knowledgeable, learnedGuru.” Why? Because that way you will have theknowledge and knowledge will derive from it. AnotherPrajnaparamita text says: “This way, any bodhisattva whowishes to attain Buddhahood, first of all they should learnand be with a Guru, a master. And also they should upholdand serve the master.” This is also in the Prajnaparamitateachings which are Mahayana teachings. Then of coursein the Vajrayana teachings, Guru yoga and Guru devotionare the main part of every practice and every teaching. SoI don’t have to refer to that, it’s everywhere.

Then also the kind of philosophical or intellectualway to confirm the importance of the Guru, it says,“Anybody who wishes to attain omniscience has to have a

Guru, because without a Guru you don’t know how toaccumulate the merit and how to purify your defilements.”You don’t know, so that is one example. Then, who? Itsays all the past, present and future Buddhas [had a Guru].So that way, philosophically, you can see how it isimpossible for you to learn something that you don’t knowwithout learning it from somebody who does know.Because, how do you get something you don’t have withoutgetting it from somebody who has it? This is another wayto learn about the Guru.

Another one is an example: if you want to go to anew land you need a guide, otherwise you don’t knowhow to get there. You might get there, but after makingso many mistakes, some place where you can get in threedays might take three months if you have nobody showingyou how to go and how to get there. So if you have aguide it will be quite simple.

Also, if you are going to a dangerous place you needcompany. Otherwise, if you go by yourself an anacondamight get you. But if there are a few of you, then one canshoot the anaconda and another one can pull you out ofit, you know, all kinds of things can be done to save you.


One of you might be sleeping while another one iswatching and when that one falls asleep then another onemight be watching. That way, going alone and going withothers’ help makes a big difference.

Also if you want to cross a river you need a boat andwhen you have a boat you need a sailor. So these thingsare examples, practical examples.

So when we wish to achieve Buddhahood, when wewish to reach enlightenment, then we need lots of guidanceand lots of transmissions. And when we try to overcomethe suffering of samsara and overcome the menace ofdefilements we need company, we need help, we need allof this. So these are the examples.

FOUR TYPES OF GURUS

There are many kinds of Gurus, not just one kind ofGuru but many types. One of them is, for example,

an ordinary unenlightened sentient being Guru. Secondis an enlightened Guru, enlightened as a bodhisattva.Third is a nirmanakaya Buddha Guru. Fourth is asambhogakaya Buddha Guru. This is a simple way to lookat the types of Gurus, the four types. There are countlesstypes, but four types are mentioned in this text.

The Guru, an ordinary person who is not anenlightened bodhisattva, is according to the disciple.Because according to the disciple’s capacity then that kindof Guru will be met. How do we learn from a nirmanakayaBuddha? How do we learn from a sambhogakaya Buddha?We have to be a bodhisattva who has attained at leastseveral bodhisattva levels or bhumis in order to learn froma sambhogakaya Buddha. In the beginning we have a Guruwho is an ordinary unenlightened Guru, but that Gurubecomes a Guru because he has the lineage and is

practising and has the ability toteach and help.

For example, if you aregoing through some difficultterrain with lots of wild peopleand wild animals you need aGuru who is brave and strongand able to ward them away, ableto protect you from them. Youdon’t need a Guru who is skinnyand who can hardly walk, whohas a back problem, neckproblem and a knee problem!Then you will be helping theGuru. So it depends on whatlevel you are, then what kind ofGuru you need, then what kindof Guru you will have. It starts

with the first Guru and then gradually it will be upgradedaccording to your development. So those are the fourgeneral descriptions of types of Guru.

QUALITIES OF A GURU

Also the qualities of the Guru—of course nirmanakayaBuddhas and sambhogakaya Buddhas are something

we don’t need much of an explanation of. Also abodhisattva who has reached realisation of certain bhumiswe don’t need much explanation of. But a Guru who is anordinary sentient being, who has not reached that level ofrealisation, then the qualities and characteristics of thatGuru we can learn and is quite meaningful to go intosome details about.

Now the basic principles, the Guru must have thelineage, number one. If you are learning a certain textfrom one Guru, in order for that person to be your Gurufor learning that text, that Guru must have a lineage ofthat text. That is number one. Lineage includes that theGuru did not break his or her samaya with his Guru.Even if he had the lineage, if he broke his samaya, thelineage is gone, the lineage is not there. Then he is notreally a Guru. He might be a teacher, he might be yourtutor, but not a Guru.

Then also, not only having the lineage, but theperson must have the ability to teach and transmit,because you might have the lineage, you might not havebroken the samaya, but if you don’t have the ability totransmit it to others, then the quality is not there. Sothis other quality is the ability to communicate thelineage which the Guru has.

Another characteristic of the ordinary sentient beingGuru is already included in the first description, but being


a bit more specific, it is, being sincerely devoted to his orher Guru. You cannot have a Guru who talks badly abouthis Guru, who has no respect and devotion to his Guru.You cannot have a Guru that is not a right Guru. A Guruhas to be devoted to his or her Guru.

Then, another one that goes with it without sayingis, a Guru should at least believe and try to implementthe teaching that he is conferring to you. It is not[sufficient] that he has the transmission and he hasdevotion to his Guru and he is conversant with the textsbut he himself is not really one hundred percent believingin it and trying to implement it. The best would be, ofcourse, if he was totally practising it, but if not, at leasttrying to practise it and having the belief.

Of course the most important basic quality of a Gurushould be that he would not break the bodhisattva voweven at the cost of his life. That should be the bottom lineof the Guru. So the Guru will not break the bodhisattvavow even if it costs him or her his or her life. Thebodhisattva vow means: “I will attain Buddhahood forthe benefit of all sentient beings.” Even one’s enemies: if Ihave a chance to liberate my enemy I will do it withoutany hesitation. If I have a chance to make my worst enemybecome Buddha right away, if I have that opportunity, Iwill do it, right away. Even if somebody who tried to killme and torture me, if I have the opportunity to makethat person Buddha, I should be helping that person tobecome Buddha without any hesitation. So that is thebasic quality of a Guru. That is an ordinary sentient being’sGuru-quality.

But then there are many other things that are detailsabout a Guru. A very good Guru, even an ordinary sentientbeing Guru, should be only teaching a disciple for thesake of the disciple. For example, if a Guru needs a goodcook. So the Guru teaches a good cook then the goodcook becomes his disciple. That will not really be a goodGuru. I can’t say it’s terribly bad because the disciple hasan opportunity to accumulate merit by serving the Guru.That is correct, it will benefit the disciple. But the Guru’smotivation is not that correct so it will not benefit theGuru that much. So the nice food he is getting from hisgood cook-disciple is very costly!

These sorts of things will include many other things.But the real bottom line is bodhichitta, lineage, devotionto the Guru, devotion to the practice that you are teaching,and the ability to teach. This somehow summarises theordinary sentient being Guru qualities.

RELATING TO A GURU

How does a disciple relate to a Guru, the method,and how does a Guru relate to a disciple? There are

three particular ways it is described—they are not threedifferent ways but three things for how a disciple shouldrelate to a Guru. With respect and care is the first way.The second is with aspiration and veneration. Aspirationlike: I wish to be like my Guru. I’m inspired by my Guru.I wish to be like Buddha. Buddha is my ultimate Guru.The Buddha’s disciples wish to be like Buddha and theirdisciples wish to be like their Gurus and this way it goesback ultimately to the Buddha, through your Guru. Thethird is sincerity and diligence in practice of what youlearn from your Guru. So, first is respect and care. Secondis aspiration and veneration and holiness; you consider yourGuru as holy. The third is: whatever you learn from yourGuru, sincerely, diligently, you practice. That is how weshould implement or how we should be a disciple of a Guru.

BENEFITS OF HAVING A GURU

There are quite few benefits. In tantra, in Vajrayana,the benefits of the Guru-disciple lineage are very

clearly emphasized everywhere. But even in sutra forexample, it is described that “Any bodhisattva who has aGuru will never fall into lower realms. Any bodhisattvawho is protected by a Guru will never be lured by negativecompanions, or unbecoming companions. Anybodhisattva who is, like somebody is your protégé, youraise them. So any bodhisattva who is raised by a Guruwill never fall back from the Mahayana, from bodhichitta.And any bodhisattva who is held by a Guru will definitelyovercome and reach above the bhumi of an ordinarysentient being, will be uplifted from an ordinary sentientbeing to an enlightened one.” So these are the benefits ofa Guru described in sutras.

THE RELATIONSHIP

This way according to the text I have mentioned aboutthe Guru-disciple relationship. Now, outside of the

text I would like to talk through my experience and alsothrough the teachings. Actually there are many levels ofGuru. It depends on the disciple as well as the Guru.There are many kinds of disciples and many levels ofdisciples. And there are many kinds of Gurus and manylevels of Gurus. It depends totally on the disciple and theGuru. You cannot say “The Guru must be like this” or “Adisciple must be like this” in a uniformed manner, becauseevery Guru is different and every disciple is different. Butthe principle of Guru-disciple is very simple: you wish toattain Buddhahood. That is your ultimate goal in this lifeor many lifetimes from now, whatever, that is your ultimategoal. And you are going to a person to whom you havefaith and trust because that person has the lineage and


that person has devotion to his or her Guru and that personis capable of teaching you, and to that person you haveaspiration, respect and veneration. On top of all of that,whatever that person teaches you, you are going to practise.That is what Guru is all about.

The Guru-disciple relationship, when you talk aboutrelationship it varies with people. It depends on thecharacteristics and habits of the Guru and it depends onthe characteristics and habits of the disciple. Some disciplesare impossible and some Gurus are impossible. When animpossible Guru and an impossible disciple end up witheach other then it is going to be quite tough, but that isthe way it will be. Some Gurus are very mild and somedisciples are very mild, and when the mild Guru andthe mild disciples end up with each other, then everythingis mild! I think personally, being a pragmatic person, Iwould say abundance is necessary. The Guru has to haveboth strength and flexibility. Disciples also should havestrength and flexibility. Otherwise, extreme is extreme,no matter whether it is ordinary extreme or holy extreme.It will be extreme.

So I think all of us should try to be balanced disciplesto our Gurus and balanced Gurus to our disciples. Andalso we should have a very clear understanding of whetherthere are some boundaries or not. Sometimes noboundaries, but sometimes boundaries are necessary.Because everything that we do as a Guru for the discipleis thinking one’s best, to make one’s best judgement, sothat it will be beneficial to the disciple. The same way, thedisciple also should have the same kind of balanced attitudetowards their Guru to get the best and most valuablebenefit and blessing from their Guru. It will not happenby force, by intrigue or by any other way than in a sincere,mature and honest way.

But sometimes, for example with my experience, somedisciples they never get the—I can’t say never, but theyhave a very hard time in differentiating between sincerityand honesty and games and intrigue. They can’tdifferentiate between these. If there is something like thatthen it is very difficult because even if the Guru is tryingtheir best the disciple is thinking of something else.Sometimes it is very good to put an alarm clock on thedesk rather that having your mother come up and wakeyou up by shaking you. Because if you set the alarm clockby yourself, then when it rings it is your own doing butwhen your mummy comes up and shakes you it is yourmummy doing it. So there is a big difference in thepsychology of people and their reactions.

Sometimes I send my disciples to other Gurus becausethose other Gurus are more skilled with dealing with sucha person than me. But it doesn’t mean I abandoned thatdisciple, no. That disciple is my disciple. But if I am only

50 kg and my disciple is 100 kg, I can’t lift him up! So Ihave to send him to someone who is 150 kg. That way itis not always what we think, kind of smooth, everythingis going to be smooth, the Guru-disciple relationship isgoing to be smooth. It is not necessarily like that. It shouldbe. A disciple’s devotion should be unshakeable and aGuru’s compassion should be unshakeable, just like Marpaand Milarepa. Marpa had to beat Milarepa up and eventorment him. But Marpa acted in such a way because hiscompassion never allowed him not to do it. I’m sure Marpadid not want to do those things to Milarepa, but hiscompassion was so strong that he had to. And Milarepa’sdevotion was so strong, that even though Marpa had doneall those things, his devotion grew even deeper and greater.That way, finally, Milarepa received the transmission fromMarpa and attained Buddhahood. But then we are talkingabout a Guru who is very highly enlightened, not anordinary sentient being Guru. The way an ordinarysentient being Guru should be dealing with an ordinarysentient being disciple is pretty much the way we dealwith everybody, “Just come on this time and I will teachyou this and you practise this, and then ask me questionsif you have some problems.” That is a regular basic wayto deal with a disciple. A disciple-Guru relationship shouldbe like that.

Then amongst many disciples, when you have manydisciples, some disciples might do something for you andsome disciples might be doing nothing for you. It dependson the personal communication and relationship with theGuru and disciple. Because a Guru might have onehundred disciples but they all cannot be his secretary orcook or driver. The Guru wants disciples to do somethingfor the benefit of dharma, of course, but some disciples itis better to not let them do anything, just let them practise.Maybe that’s the best way. So it depends on the individualhuman relationship. It is not discrimination in a bad waybut wise discrimination. It doesn’t mean the Guru has tomake use of every disciple. It does not mean the Gurushould not make the disciples do service for the dharmaor service for the Guru—Guru means for the dharma. Itdoesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen. But it does not meanthat it has to happen. It depends on individuals. But whatmust happen is, the Guru must teach the dharma and thedisciples must practise the dharma. That is a must. Gurusmust teach the dharma and disciples must practise thedharma, that is compulsory. Whether disciples do someservice for the Guru or not is optional.

I am a very practical person. For example, if I wantsomebody to do something for my monastery, I will usemy best judgement, maybe I am wrong, but I will try tofind a person whom I think can do such work, and that itwill not be a problem for that person, or me, or the


monastery, and everybody whoworks for the monastery. ThenI will ask that person to dosomething. Otherwise I willnot, because it will be a problemfor me, the monastery, and thewhole staff, and the actual thingwill fall apart. Let’s put it thisway: if I want a financial adviserI will not pick up a person fromthe traffic lights. So it is a verysimple thing. And if I want agood driver, I will definitely findsomebody who has all thelicences and who has good eyesand ears and who can look rightand left and not day dream.Then I will be very happy withthat driver. Like that. It has to be realistic, and that’s goodfor the Guru, good for the disciple and good for all theother disciples as well.

So a Guru-disciple relationship doesn’t have to be oneparticular way. A Guru-disciple relationship doesn’t haveto be physically close or distant. Some disciples think theyhave to be with the Guru, they have to follow the Guru,they have to be just in front of the Guru and all of this,that’s not necessary. In the Guru-disciple relationship themain thing, the main issue is to teach the dharma and topractice the dharma. The core of the Guru-disciplerelationship is that.

On top of that, then various Gurus will have variousrelationships with their disciples. Some of them will belike helpers, some will be like patrons, some of them willbe like a friend. Some of them will be like—definitely notlike flattering to the Guru, then the disciple is harmingthe Guru. I can’t say I don’t like that—people that arevery flattering and praise me saying “You are wonderful,you are this and that.” But it’s actually very harmful tome because I will have the wrong perception of myselfwhen I have lots of people around me who are flatteringme. I will get lost. I will think of myself as somebody else.The courts used to have those guys, sycophants, sayinglike, “You are great, you are wonderful.” I can’t say I don’tlike that. I don’t think there is anybody who doesn’t likesomebody saying you are wonderful. There is truth in it.Everybody likes to be praised. But it is very bad for you,because you will have a wrong idea of yourself. When youhave a wrong idea of yourself you are bound to make afool of yourself because everybody knows what you are.But you have the wrong idea of what you are becausethose people make you think you are something else, soyou act like something else, but everybody knows you are

not. Then you make a fool of yourself. That way the Guru-disciple relationship doesn’t mean the disciple has to beflattering to the Guru! I think there has to be a healthyrelationship, with trust, honour and principle. And thatwhole thing has to be based on teaching the dharma andpractising the dharma. With that strong base then youcan have little branches here and there, if it is appropriate.Disciples can be Guru’s helper, disciples can be Guru’sassistants, patrons and staff, all kind of things can be.

So that is a Guru-disciple relationship, very generallyspeaking. This will cover Hinayana, Mahayana, andVajrayana, all levels of Guru-disciple relationships. InHinayana they might not call it exactly Guru, they mightcall it something like a Spiritual Friend, an abbot,something like that, but it is really the same thing. Thatis I think what I can say. Now I will let you ask questionsso that we might get to some of the real points that youmight like to raise.

Question: Does one have just one Root Guru and is that

the Guru who first gives you teachings? Rinpoche: No. Your first Guru is your first Guru, he

is not necessarily your Root Guru. But your first Gurucan be your Root Guru also. Root Guru is Tsawe Lama,Tsawe means “root,” Lama means Guru. Actually, the realdefinition of Root Guru is: through which Guru’s teachingyou reach the highest realisation, the realisation of thenature of mind. That is your Root Guru. But we haveRoot Guru in advance. So, out of many Gurus that wehave, we consider one Guru our Root Guru and we wantto learn from this Guru the main thing. Then this Gururecommends one to learn something from another Guru.So we listen to our Guru and receive teachings here andthere and receive this and that lineage but have one Root


Guru in our heart. That is quite a common way. That isRoot Guru in advance. And then through that master, allof your practice is somehow guided by that master. It’slike a river with lots of little streams going into it, so thisis like the main river, like the trunk of a tree. Then, throughthis Guru you will follow the practice, but you will receivemany teachings from other Gurus if necessary. That willbe the definition of Root Guru for almost all of us. Butwhen we recognize the nature of our mind, then we reallyhave the definition of Root Guru, that person is our RootGuru, because the root of all the practice is recognisingBuddha nature. That is the purpose of all the practice.Through whose teaching that is achieved, then that isone’s Root Guru.

But then we also have a very strong clear structure.We have Vinaya Guru; we have Sutra Guru, that is aboutbodhichitta; we have tantric Guru from whom we receiveinitiations and all of that. Normally from whom we receiveinitiations we consider our very important tantric Guru.And from whom we receive the bodhisattva vows our veryimportant bodhisattva lineage Guru. And from whomwe receive the Vinaya vows, like precepts, if you are amonk or a nun then from whom you receive fullordination, but if you are a layperson then from whomyou receive the precepts, that is an important Guru. Thenof course the door-opener from whom you receive refugeis your very important Guru because your door toBuddhism is opened by this Guru, by giving you refuge.So the refuge Guru is very important, but not necessarilythe Root Guru but they can be the Root Guru.

Question: A lot of us who receive His Holiness’ teachings,

we get a lot of initiations from him, but then we want to doretreat we go to some other Lama because of course we cannot

ask His Holiness because he is theLama of so many thousands ofpeople. So we go to another Lamafor the particular retreattransmission. So would thatparticular Lama along with HisHoliness be our Root Guru, at leastfor that particular practice?

Rinpoche: Root Guru is allin your head. You will expressthat to your Root Guru, but it’sall in you. For example, if youconsider—you were talkingabout HH Dalai Lama—so ifyou consider HH Dalai Lamayour Root Guru, then he is yourRoot Guru. Because all of yourpractice is based on his guidance;

the whole stream is flowing through the same one valley,but then, you are receiving this teaching and that teachingfrom other Gurus, so that teacher who taught you themantra is your mantra Guru for that particular deity. Andthe teacher who taught you the visualisation of thatparticular sadhana is the Guru of that particular sadhanavisualisation, then it is very simple.

When you do the Four Foundation practice, like inMahamudra, we have to have our Root Guru at that time.So that Root Guru will be represented by Vajradhara inthe middle. The Vajradhara on top is Buddha and theVajradhara in the middle is our Root Guru, but our RootGuru in this sense is from whom I received thistransmission. So for Mahamudra preliminary practice, myRoot Guru.

For some people it is quite easy, because like myself,in the Golden Rosary of the Karma Kagyu Lineage, theGolden Rosary is strictly Karma Kagyu. It is not onlyMahamudra, it is everything. In that the Karmapas arethe Root Guru, the backbone of the Golden RosaryLineage is Karmapa, always. For example, the FirstKarmapa’s main disciple was Drogon Rechen, but DrogonRechen was not the Root Guru of the Second Karmapabecause Drogon Rechen transmitted the lineage toGyaltsab Pomdrakpa. Gyaltsab Pomdrakpa transmitted itto the Second Karmapa. For me, my Root Guru is theSixteenth Karmapa. It is already prescribed, it is alreadythere. For me it was very easy, it was already there. But forpeople who become followers of dharma, new followers,then you might have a little different thing, you have tochoose your Root Guru. That way it is something else.

Question: Does one really choose a Root Guru?Rinpoche: You have to decide, yes. You have to decide


saying, “I consider this master my Root Guru.” It has tohappen that way. Otherwise there will be another thing—you go for many, many teachings and from one masteryou receive more and more teachings and then from othersyou receive just a little, and then the most importantteachings you receive from one master, then that way theRoot Guru somehow falls into place. If you are talkingabout that, that will happen too. It is sort of a naturalevolution, somehow it just takes place; rain falls and smallstreams come to the big valley and then the big river justhappens. It could be like that.

Question: In the Tara puja you have to visualise your

Root Guru who wears golden robes and a red hat. Who is he?Rinpoche: I’m not sure which Tara puja you are

referring to. If the pandit has a yellow hat then it must beTsongkhapa, the founder of the Gelugpa Lineage. BeforeTsongkhapa the Gelugpa lineage was already there, butwe call it Kadampa. After Tsongkhapa built the Gandenmonastery in Tibet it became Gelug, because it’s thetradition of the Ganden monastery.

Same Student: So it’s not yours?Rinpoche: No, I’m Kagyu. But I also received teachings

of Gelug Question: I have attended other centres and asked some

foreign Lamas about mantras. They understood the philosophyvery well but didn’t seem very convinced about the effectivenessof tantra and mantras. How does one deal with this?

Rinpoche: I don’t know exactly what the problem isbut I have observed something that is in every society,Asians, Europeans, Americans, Africans. Every society hassome kind of unique perception and that uniqueperception goes back to the Stone Age and all the way upto today.

In the West I found one thing that is quite commonto most of the Europeans. Americans are made out ofEuropeans and Asians, it’s quite different, but forEuropeans there is one common thing, there is somedisillusionment or dislike about rituals. I think lots ofthings happened in every country, there was all theindustrial revolution, inquisition, so many thingshappened that people have some kind of similar reactionto similar things in Europe. I think it might havesomething to do with that. Because ritual, mantrachanting, chanting, all of these things are quite similar inevery religion, Christian, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism; ritualand chanting are similar. So when you have some kind ofdisillusion about one type of thing, then you will havesome scepticism about a similar thing.

I find a more easy and natural appreciation for justsitting and relaxing and being calm, that sort of thing in

the West. People who come to the teachings, learningdharma practice, many of them practice dharma just tobe more happy, more peaceful, more calm, and less stressed,for that purpose. Not so much for the next life. Not somuch for becoming Buddha. Do you understand? Theywant the effect right now.

Student: More for stress management?Rinpoche: Almost like that. Some go to that extent.

Some go a little bit deeper than that, but sort of. That Isaw in the West. For example, in France, many people arevery sceptical about rituals and those kinds of things. Atthe same time there are many people, because they aresceptical they are interested, it is challenging. Like rockclimbing, it is difficult; you don’t have to climb the rock,you can leave it there and sit here. But people like to do itbecause it is challenging to them. So I also find peoplekeeping skull cups and bone trumpets and skull dhamarusand things like that, and they are very fond of them. It ismystical, it is a ritual, mystique. That is the other side.

The other side is to be very sceptical about all of this,like our next birth, karma. All these things are acceptedby individuals, but deep inside there is something notvery certain, it doesn’t hold, thinking, “Well, maybe,maybe not, but it doesn’t matter it makes me feelcompassionate and happy, compassion is a good thing.Anyway, why do I have to worry about the next life, I’llbe compassionate and happy in this life.” That is verymuch there, deep inside, in many people. So maybe whenyou asked a question, whoever answered that they are notsure, maybe it is coming from that. The good thing isbeing honest. An honest teacher is a good teacher. Anyway,I saw that. In our society we don’t have that, we are totallythe opposite of that.

Student: Do you doubt the mantras?Rinpoche: No, I don’t. If I doubt the mantras I am

finished! Mantra is mantra, just talking. I mean, we aretalking, this is also mantra, and sound, this is also mantra,so how can we have doubt? Everything is mantra.Everything is mudra. I don’t doubt.

Question: When giving initiations, is there a possibility

of a Guru accepting more disciples than he or she can manage?Rinpoche: Not really, originally yes. During the time

of Tilopa, Naropa, Maitripa, Marpa and Milarepainitiations were very rare. And also initiations are givenstage by stage, most of the time. Each initiation is a practicein itself. For example, in the fourth initiation you have torecognize the nature of mind. That way, if you are doingthat kind of initiation for thousands of people together,yes, of course. But then in Tibet the tradition evolved sothat initiations were given to the masses as a blessing.Out of that, very few are really receiving initiations one


by one and then practising them. Most of them come forthe blessing, to be in the mandala, to receive the blessing,to get the water to drink and pills to eat. To get touchedby the blessed objects, to look at the mandala and to hearthe sound. That way it is not too much.

But of course if empowerments were given just likehow Tilopa gave to Naropa, then it would be impossible togive it to masses, then also the disciples would have to waitfor ages and ages and so many years would pass before theyreceived the initiation. Milarepa had to build a nine-storeybuilding by himself, and earlier on three of them had to beknocked down. The building still stands today after morethan a thousand years. He built it by himself, just with hisown hands in Lhodrak, near the Bhutan-Tibet border. Thatway, disciples have to wait for a long, long time. But now,the same initiation, but given as a blessing, like a sermon,like a puja, a blessing empowerment.

Question: When does it go beyond blessing?Rinpoche: It goes beyond the blessing when it becomes

beyond the blessing. That means you are taking theempowerment, not just sitting there and chit chatting withyour friends or having a snack in the middle. Actuallythat’s what happens. The initiation takes for four to fivedays and people come with a thermos of tea and breadand everything, and there are others going around sellingthings, big shops over there, you know. Lines of shopsthat open and people get up in the middle of the initiationand go and buy something and come back and sit downand continue. Some of them are just chit chatting andgossiping, of course with respect, but talking, not evenlistening. So it’s for the blessing.

Those who really sincerely listen to every teaching,sincerely take every empowerment and then take thecommitment to practice it, then they are getting muchmore than a blessing. Out of those, who do more thanthat, like doing retreat, then they really receive further,deeper teachings. If like the Kalachakra, the Kalachakratantra is enormous, so receiving the whole teaching ofthe Kalachakra tantra and doing the retreat on theKalachakra sadhana. That way then it becomes morethan a blessing, it becomes a real abhisheka(empowerment). Most people do not come for that, mostof the hundreds and thousands of people who come havethe opportunity to have a blessing. It gives some kind ofdharma connection. So it is never accepting too manydisciples. There can be ten million people receiving aninitiation, which is not too much. It is a blessing to tenmillion people. And they are disciples for receiving theinitiation, that’s all. Then each one of them will learnfurther from their own master. Most of them might havetheir own Root Guru already. They might be practising

themselves already, just wanting to add one more blessingto it, not necessarily taking the commitment.

Question: Will their teacher then guide them as to when

they require or are ready for further spiritual initiation orgrowth? How will they recognise it in themselves, how willthe teacher recognise it in them?

Rinpoche: In our tradition, normally we go by thevery basic thing first, from the preliminary practice all theway up. But a person may be way up here, but doing thepreliminary practice does not mean bringing the personway down there. The person way up here will do thepreliminary practice way up here. So a person’s preliminarypractice may be a totally different level of preliminarypractice, although it is the same practice.

Question: Can you please say something about the Guru

Devotion prayer that says you are the only hope and highestand all of that?

Rinpoche: Your short cut to Buddha, your kind ofconnection to Buddha. Guru devotion is very importantin all levels of Buddhism and especially in Vajrayana. Butit has to be the most genuine and most pure. Otherwise itbecomes—with my limited English vocabulary the bestway to say may be you become neurotic about your Guru.That is not good. Genuine devotion, like when Milarepathought of Marpa, tears would come in his eyes. Then hejust stood there from his cave and he looked to the eastand he saw a cloud there, and he said, “Under that cloudmy Guru lives.” Then he saw that cloud come closer andcloser and Marpa was riding on a lion and appeared abovehim. Like that, it is genuine, real. But if somebody who isnot on that level tried to be like that, then they becomeneurotic. It becomes out of balance, it can become pureemotion and can be counterproductive. So I think practicethe dharma that your Guru taught you, sincerely.

Then you should have devotion to your Guru becauseof the practice that your Guru taught you and becausethe Guru’s devotion to his Guru. And that is the lineage.So that way it will evolve and then natural devotion tothe Guru will arise which is not neurotic. It is not necessaryfor us to try to have that kind of thing when we think wedon’t have it. Because if we don’t have it, then we try tohave it and our mind is quite capable of creating somesort of climate within ourselves. This is very funny, youknow, one time I was on an airplane and a movie wasshowing and some people were really crying. It was justsome sad movie, but some grown up passengers were reallycrying. I couldn’t believe it. You understand what I amsaying. It is just a movie—somebody wrote a script andactresses have acted and then took a break and hadsandwiches and laughing, then they wake up and act again


and somebody is filming andedited it. So how can you cry,but people cried. So it canbecome like that. And it is notnecessarily healthy that way.

Question: What about, theysay you should see your Guru tobe a Buddha?

Rinpoche: Yes, of course. Ifyou sincerely, not struggle andmake up, but if you sincerelybelieve your Guru is Buddha,then your Guru is Buddha andBuddha’s blessing flow throughyour Guru. If you sincerelythink of your Guru, or believeyour Guru is a bodhisattva, thena bodhisattva’s blessing flows through your Guru. And ifyou sincerely think of your Guru as a nice good person,then a nice good person’s blessing flows through. That issincerely. But if you try to make it up and try to forceyourself and brainwash yourself to think like that thenthat is not right.

Question: Let’s say our Guru actually is a Buddha butthe disciple thinks he is a bodhisattva, will the Buddha’sblessing still come?

Rinpoche: No. Even if Buddha is sitting in front ofme, if I think he is a nice fellow, a jolly good fellow, I willonly get a jolly good fellow blessing. Really, it is. So thatway devotion is very important, but genuine naturaldevotion, not intellectually created devotion. I was toldby somebody that there are people you can hire to crywhen somebody dies, so it becomes like that. Then itbecomes very mixed up. So genuine devotion is veryimportant but genuine devotion you will not have untilyou have the genuine devotion, you cannot force it.Genuine devotion itself is a realization, is itself some levelof enlightenment. It is not something that we can create.

Question: You talked about samaya, how do you breaksamaya?

Rinpoche: Samaya has many levels. But the most basicsamaya is, when you take initiation or take a teachingthen you take a samaya, “I will do this. I will practicethis.” And if you didn’t do it, then you break the samayaof that. You can mend the samaya by confession andreviving your samaya. That is one thing. In tantric samayathere are fourteen main samayas. Secondary to that aretwenty-five: each Buddha family has five samaya, so fiveBuddha families, twenty-five samaya. Next to that is 700

samayas. Then next to that is each thought, so countlesssamayas. So that way, tantric Vajrayana, tantra is verydeep and very profound. The word samaya is quitedirectly linked with tantra. The bodhisattva vow is alsoa samaya but we don’t say samaya normally. The wordsamaya we don’t use there, but you can use it. Also thereis samaya between parents and children, samaya betweenhusband and wife, samaya between teacher and student,samaya between employer and employees, you can usethis word, but actually this word is very much Vajrayana,a tantric terminology.

When I described about how to relate to a Guru thatsomehow summed up all the samaya—respect, venerationand aspiration, and practice. So if you uphold that—ofcourse the base of all of that is bodhichitta, because all ofthe practices that we do are based on bodhichitta. If youuphold that then you are not breaking your samaya. Allthe details of samaya, if you learn them it can overwhelmyou. I think it is not necessary to learn at this stage becauseonce you know, then you know already.

Question: I heard, let’s say that I have to say ten malasof OM MANI PEME HUNG everyday…

Rinpoche: If you say that you will say ten malas ofOM MANI PEME HUNG everyday, if you took that asa samaya, then if you don’t say it you broke that samaya.

Same student: Somebody told me that if, let’s say Ididn’t do it today and then the next day I realized I didn’tsay it, then if say double that amount then that means Ihaven’t broken my samaya.

Rinpoche: You can, that is how we can make ourselvesfeel that, that is like a confession. That is fine. But I wouldrather tell people don’t take samaya of that kind lightly. Itis very easy to say when you are inspired, like our


gentlemen here said, when he is in the presence of methen his thought disappears, right? So, for example, whenwe are in a temple and we are receiving initiations, whenwe are in a very profound environment, when everybodyis thinking positively and receiving an initiation we getinspired very easily. So in that kind of situation we cansay all kind of things. You can think like, I am going togo from here to Bodhgaya doing prostrations. You know,that will be a very easy thing to come to your head andyou take that as a samaya. Then after you come out of theshrine it is a different thing because from here to Bodhgaya,all the road, it is dusty, all the filth and everything, thensometimes there are cobras, how are you really going todo it? People do it. In Tibet people do these things. Somepeople go from their home to Lhasa, to Jowo Rinpoche,or many times to Karmapa by prostration. Some of themtake several years, every day prostrating, everyday theyhave to finish a few miles. Normally people prostrate andwalk a few steps but others go by one prostration bodywidth, not length. But only those who can do it can do it,everybody cannot do it. Everybody can do it if they reallywant to do it, but it is a strange thing, some people justcannot do it.

So that way, when you are inspired you shouldn’t getcarried away. You should realize outside is different frominside the shrine. So you take a commitment which youcan really uphold. So instead of saying ten malas, say onemala—one mala of OM MANI PEME HUNG is notdifficult, you can sit in the car and say it or you can sit ina park and say it. One mala goes very fast but ten malasalso is not much but you can miss that. There is a verycommon saying, “Don’t bite off more than you can chew.”But making up like that (doubling up the next day) is agood thing, if you have already taken the commitment

then that is the only thing to do,undo, do undo.

Question: The mantraswhich come to us are all oldmantras, you and the highLamas, can’t you give us newmantras?

Rinpoche: How can we givenew mantras? The only newmantras that are made are Gurumantras. That is like each Guru,if their disciples want to do theirGuru yoga for their Guru, thenthe Guru’s name will betranslated into Sanskrit andmade into a mantra, only that.Other than that you cannot

make any new mantras. All the mantras are what we have,we have to have lineage there. But then Guru yogas haveGuru mantras. Then also when a Guru dies, when all thedisciples gather together to pray for the Guru for forty-nine days, and the body kept on the altar, then they alsosay prayers with the Guru’s name translated into Sanskrit.That is prayer to the Guru, but not necessarily Guru yoga.Also if a Guru is sick and disciples want to do long lifeprayers to the Guru, then the long life mantra has a spacein between where the name of a Guru can be put. So wetranslate the Guru’s name into Sanskrit and put it theresaying that please Buddha bless our Guru, blah, blah,blah to live long and be healthy, like that. So we can dothat sort of thing but not new mantras.

Question: But nobody knows for example who wroteOM MANI PEME HUNG?

Rinpoche: It is coming from sutra, it is from Buddha.There are several, it is almost tantra but many of them aregiven the name sutra, eleven face sutra, that is eleven faceAvalokiteshvara sutra.

Student: Buddha wrote it?Rinpoche: Buddha didn’t write it. Buddha never wrote

anything. This is very interesting. For a Vajrayana person,a Tibetan Buddhist, a Vajrayana and Mahamudrapractitioner, we never say Buddha taught or Buddha saidthis—of course we can say that but we never mean that.Buddha manifests the dharma according to the capacityof those to whom dharma manifests. Buddha is notdualistic. If you think and say something, and because ofthe motive, you are dualistic, you are not Buddha, youare just a powerful person like a god who helps when youare nice to him and beats you when you are not nice tohim, or who punishes you, like that. Buddha is limitless.


Therefore, we don’t receive Buddha’s teaching that way,Buddha manifests.

After the Buddha’s paranirvana then his disciplesgathered three times—this is about the main stream ofBuddha’s teaching. The tantric aspect is manifesting in avery high level. It manifested to enlightened bodhisattvasand then these teachings manifest from great bodhisattvas.But the Abhidharma, Vinaya, Sutra, all of these teachingswere compiled during three main gatherings. During thesegatherings arhats whose realization includes somethinglike a photographic memory, that is a scientific term, butwe call it zung which means never forget. Zung meanseverything that was heard was imprinted. So these arhats,I think hundreds of them, came together and then whatthey remembered then they put it all together and wroteit down, that way all the teachings of the Buddha, theTripitaka, which is more than a hundred volumes, wasput together. Then on top of that are all the tantricteachings, which are an enormous amount, and whichmanifest from like the king of Shambhala and bodhisattvassuch as Manjushri, Vajrapani, and Avalokiteshvara. Theseare the tantric aspect, not Tripitaka. Tripitaka meansAbhidharma, Vinaya and Sutra.

Question: How difficult is it to be a Guru in the Tibetantradition, what are the difficulties?

Rinpoche: There is a lot of responsibility. For peoplelike me, my biggest concern is the lineage. I am not justwondering but am really concerned about the lineage ofdharma. The dharma is lineage and you cannot forge alineage, there is no way. This world is such that you haveto be like this, you have to be like that, you have to becorrect here, you have to be correct there, and you have tolook good here and you have to look good there, youcannot be this way, and so on and so forth. So that way,to keep the pure lineage, genuinely, is very very difficult.I am trying my best. I think every master is trying theirbest, but how much damage is being done, practicallyevery day to the lineage, really I don’t know. That way,from now until another twenty years, how everything willbe, it is a pretty short time and this is a very serious matter.If the lineage is gone then the dharma is gone. Then itonly looks like dharma, only sounds like dharma, walkslike dharma, talks like dharma but is not dharma if thereis no lineage. Then everything will be just individuals’ideas and individual interpretations and individualinstitutions and individual adminstrations and so on andso forth. It will be a total disaster as far as I am concerned.

Student: Can that happen?Rinpoche: It is happening already.Student: But isn’t that part of the design, don’t we accept

that?

Rinpoche: I don’t accept that. I don’t want to be partof that. I don’t want to contribute to that.

Student: I understand but it could have a larger meaningthan just what we perceive it as?

Rinpoche: No. Because if Buddha’s lineage is no morehere it is not Buddhism for me, it is just a look-a-likeBuddhism. I can make a Buddha statue out of gold but ifit has no relics and no mantras inside, if it is notconsecrated, then it is just an idol made out of gold. It isnot Buddha, it just looks like Buddha. So that way itdoesn’t mean anything to me, it means just a big piece ofgold moulded in the shape of Buddha, that is all. It doesn’thave blessing, it doesn’t have anything. It is just anexpensive thing. If the whole dharma become like thatthen I would rather be a carpenter than a guru, becausethen I would be a fake Guru, a Guru without lineage isfake. I would rather do another job, be a painter, I can dopainting. I will be a painter or a photographer.

But I think if we can make it, this generation, mygeneration and the next generation, then I think we havea chance. This generation, my generation and the nextgeneration is a very big threshold because what ishappening in my generation, what happened in mygeneration, what is going to happen in the next generationis something that never has happened in the past. For myfather’s generation, everything was pretty much similarfor the last 10,000 or 20,000 years. My next generation’snext generation, everything will be similar for maybe along time. But this, we call it a progressive generation, weturn everything inside out and upside down. So I call ourgeneration the chaotic generation. And in this chaos theprecious lineage can be lost. Then we cannot make a newlineage, impossible. You have to be Buddha to have aBuddha lineage. We have to wait until the Lord Maitreyabecomes Buddha, and until that there will be noBuddhism.

So that is most difficult part, otherwise my life is verycomfortable. Everybody is very nice to me, and all mywork, by the blessing of the Buddha, I really believe bythe blessing of Buddha, all my work, everything is goingvery smoothly. I have lots of problems, tons of problems,but none of them bother me, it is okay. I have been inIndia now for five years consecutively, but I am so happybecause I saw four seasons for the first time in the sameplace in almost thirty years—for the first time for fiveyears consecutively, it is beautiful. Previously I would wakeup in London, wake up in New York, wake up inSingapore, wake up in Sydney, wake up in Amsterdam.Sometimes I wouldn’t know where I was when I woke up.Most of the time I was travelling so much, teaching, whichof course I appreciate, it is an honour. But everything, allof my problems are also wonderful, all my problems are


also beautiful and wonderful. So I say I am very happywith my life.

Student: Why are your problems wonderful?Rinpoche: Because I saw four seasons five times

consecutively and this is wonderful. If I didn’t have aproblem going around, you know, so this problem isbeautiful.

Question: In life situations, if the Guru is not accessibleto give possible solutions to situations and one has to asksomebody else, is it corrupting the lineage?

Rinpoche: No. Dharma is dharma and dharma withlineage is dharma no matter where it comes from. Asolution for a problem is a solution for a problem, it doesn’thave to be with a lineage of dharma. You can ask anybodyfor solutions to solve your regular problems. You don’thave to have a dharma master to solve your regularproblems. It does not corrupt the lineage.

Student: But the availability of the master is very low.Rinpoche: Well maybe, maybe not. It depends. In

certain ways there are too many masters and in certainway there are too few masters at the same time, it is true,it is a paradox. It is true there are so many masters, somany Gurus, we are not short of Gurus, so many. Butthen of course in some ways there are too few, you know,each person needs maybe ten Gurus, right, so that way itis too few. But generally speaking there are lots of Gurus,lots of Lamas, lots of masters. In Buddhism there areTheravadan masters, Mahayana masters, Vajrayanamasters, there are a lot.

Question: If there are so many masters then why are youso concerned about the lineage?

Rinpoche: That is also the reason. There are manymasters who aren’t concerned about the lineage, who don’thave concern for the lineage. This is also a very bigproblem. I saw somebody somewhere, a shopkeeper, andI saw him somewhere else wearing a robe and givingteachings, initiations. It is a very big concern. It is notagainst the law, there is nothing one can do. This is a veryserious time. Lineage is something that you cannot replace,that is the point. Anything else we can replace, templeswe can replace, books we can replace, statues we can replacebut if the lineage is lost, how can we replace, it isirreplaceable.

Student: But why would it be lost, it is so real, it is soprofound, it will probably just be hidden like a seed orsomething, it would go inside.

Rinpoche: Yes. I believe that because I believe in themerit of all sentient beings and the blessing of all theBuddhas and bodhisattvas. And I am in the middle of it,when the gentlemen asked me this thing about Gurus,

that is my responsibility, and a very big responsibility. Ihave no power over it. So I have to work very hard in avery unnecessarily careful and complicated way becauseof the way things work in the world today. It is verycomplicated, you cannot be just like that.

Question: If I have the lineage of a text does that meanthat I am allowed to teach that text?

Rinpoche: You are allowed to teach that text whenyour Guru says that you are allowed to teach that text.And when somebody asks you to teach that text and yourGuru say you can teach that text, then yes.

Student: Then the lineage continues?Rinpoche: If you teach purely, without contamination,

purely, yes, then the lineage continues. All of you havethe lineage of dharma, and all of you if you practice, andif you have a certain level of capacity, the quality of Guruswhich I have described, if you develop that, then if otherswant to learn from you, then you can teach. All the Guruscame like that, all of our masters came like that, they justdidn’t come down, they came up like a flower, they didnot rain like a hailstorm, but they came up like a flowerfrom being. Buddha Shakyamuni was Prince Siddarth,he became Buddha Shakyamuni, up, not down.

Student: Do you have to be enlightened to teach?Rinpoche: No, if you have to be enlightened to teach

then I can’t teach. I am not Buddha, I am far away, youhave to wait two million years for me to teach you. Youhave to have the lineage and you have to have the thingswhich I have mentioned, devotion to your Guru, andfaith and belief in the teachings and trying your best toimplement them, oneself, and knowing how to teach thatand having received the lineage of that teaching. Thesethings are necessary, then you can be a teacher, an ordinarysentient being teacher, not an enlightened bodhisattvateacher. An ordinary sentient being but a bodhisattva ofcourse, but not enlightened on the first level, second level,etc., not like that.

Question: Do each of the four major sects have theirown lineage?

Rinpoche: Yes, but they are all mingled somewhere.The four schools of Tibetan Buddhism, actually there areeight of them, eight schools, but most people don’t talkabout them because some of them are so small right now.So they like to say four schools of Tibetan Buddhism. Butif you really trace the lineages back, then all of them areintermingled, you can’t really separate them. For example,you say this is a coconut tree, this is a date palm and thisis another palm, they are all different palms but if youreally trace them back then the root, the source, is thesame, they just evolved in different environments over


millions of years and becamedifferent palms, like that. So allof the Hinayana, Mahayana,Vajrayana, all lineages are mixed,mingled, but what makes usdifferent is the administration. InTibet the monasteries are thecream of society and it is a verystrong administration and thatway it is separate. Other thanthat, the essence of the teachingsare the same, the lineages are allintermingled.

For example, Tsongkhapareceived lots of teachings fromthe Fourth Karmapa, and theKadampa came from Atisha, theteachings we also include lots ofKadampa teachings and in our practice is included a lotof Nyingma, we practice lots of Guru Rinpoche. GuruRinpoche brought the main stream of dharma to Tibet.So it is all intermingled, really. When it comes to reallineage, if you trace it back, everybody is interconnected.

Student: So we can move from one to another or oneshould not?

Rinpoche: Administratively not, but in faith it is therealready. Administratively there are different congregations,each has its own background, its own traditions, its ownways, its own sort of history. There is a huge history behindeach congregation, each school. Within each school thereare congregations who are connected with certain teachers,and how and everything, it is enormous and complex.

Student: Does this apply to new Buddhists like us?Rinpoche: I think new Buddhists also will have—you

are building up, you are evolving something new, but thatwill be something new itself. None of these things areplanned from the beginning, everything evolves. We willnot plan something, it just happens. Marpa did not planthe Marpa Kagyu lineage, it just happened. The MarpaKagyu has four main and eight secondary schools. Oneof the main schools, the Karma Kagyu, has three brancheswithin itself and two main seats. One is my seat, Palpung,which has 180 monastic congregations and 13 monasticestates that cover all of Tibet, greater Tibet, not just theTibet that you see on the map. What you see on a mapnow is just a small part of Tibet, I think one third of Tibetor maybe even less. I am outside of that, I am not in thatmap. My monastery, my home, are all outside of that map.

Student: Like Kham, U-Tsang and Amdo?Rinpoche: That is a strange way of saying it because,

originally, there was three huge regions in west Tibet, inthe middle four huge regions, and in the lower part six

main places, a huge area. That was during the time of thegreat Tibetan kings like Songten Gampo. They made anexample, one is like a reservoir, another is like canals, andthe third is like a field. So these three things can never beseparate, all have to stay as one unit. So when we sayKham, Amdo, U-Tsang, then that is a Mongoliandescription. When Tibet was occupied by Mongolia thenthey divided Tibet into three parts, which they callcholokas. In Mongolia they have, I think, thirteen or thirtycholokas in the time of Genghis Khan, in those days.

So they said Tibet, land wise has the mass of threecholokas, population wise it was not enough but then thespecialties or characteristics were enough for cholokas. Theupper choloka has the origin of dharma coming from there.The dharma came from India through U-Tsang. That ishistorically very significant so they gave it a title of onecholoka. Then they said Kham has one choloka of land,not enough population, but it has very brave people, verygood fighters and very strong men, so that way it has thischaracteristic. Then the Amdo area, they say it has a landmass of one choloka but not enough people, but theyhave great horses who run on the sand and hardly leaveany footprints. The horses run on slates and hardly breakany of them, so with those kind of horses they say it has aspecialty of that, so they called it another choloka.

So the terminology of those three is coming from that.So it is the same thing like that, that is a later title, butthe original title was from the time of King SongtenGampo, during those days it is all one unit, that was theoriginal. Tibet is huge, it is very big. I think it is morethan three quarters of India.Teaching given in New Delhi 2005 with kind thanks from RishiJindal, Ani la Sherab and Rokpa Finland for recording,transcribing, editing and offering these teachings for publication.

Guru-Disciple Relationship

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