BEN J IE WHITE 1Reel I [of 2]-Digest-RetypeMarch 16, 1961

Also present: Richard B. Alien/ Paul R. Crawford. Infcerv .

lew

conducted at White's home, 103 Maryland Drive, New Orleans, La.

RBA reads from notification of copyright card for composition,,

"Owls' Hoot"; composers, Wilfred B. White (Benjie) and pianist

Harry "Mose" Ferrer (with tl-ie Owls at the time). The copyright

was sent in (received December 31, 1925) just about the time of

the Owls' recording session for Columbia, just a little before the

session. [Cf. discographies.J "Owls' HootV" ["Stomp Off, Let s

Go,"] and "Oh Me, Oh My:" (not composed by any of the Owls) were

the very first recordings. First session was made in the old

Godchaux Building; session was electrically recorded, some of the

first of that type made/ says BW. On the first test, the predominant

sound was of baseball scores being broadcast by radio station WSMB;

when that had been elAminated, the sound of liie musicians' stomping

feet was loudest; when that was eliminated, the session went well.

^<was born August 30, 1901, on First Street in New Orleans;

his family moved around several times; he recalls his young days

in the 1400 block of Calhoun. BW speaks of his schooling, ending

with 2 years at Tulane College of Commerce and Business Administra-

tion. BW played music in a small group while at Tulane, just for

fun; the band members had no idea of playing professionally. The

6 & 7/8 [string] Band was going at the time (BW ment .

ions Dr.

[Edmond] Souchon, a member of that group); some members of the Owl s

BENJIE WHITE 2

Reel I [of 2]-Digest-RetypeMarch 16, 1961

had played with that group: Red Mackie, Eblen Rau/ Monk Sraith-

BW played violin in his group; they got a summer vacation job at

the Miramar Hotel in Pass Christian, Mississippi, playing 3 days

a week there and 3 days a week at the Belmar, in Mississippi City

(between Gulfport and Biloxi). Guy Lyman, no musician, but a

person who liked to play drums (used a crate for his drum) , got

the job; Eugene "Jenks" Diboll, Fred Ogden, Eblen Rau, Guy Lyman

and BW were the band. BW began playing sax on that job; he was

inspired by a sax player he heard in Biloxi. Later, upon his

return feo New Orleans/ BW, Rau, Monk Smith, Rene Gelpi and others

began playing on weekends at the Agnes Boathouse, West End/ a placer

operated by Daddy McKnight. After that. Red MacKe (who had beenA.

playing bass with the 6 & 7/8, but who also played piano), his

brother, Dick Mackie (cornet) / Monk Smith/ sax, Rene Gelpi, Tbanjo,

and BW formed a band; they played their first engagement at the*

^

Quartier Club; they then began playing at the old Rowing Club (at

the end of Bayou St. John) . BW tells of playing a debutante party

at the New Orleans Country Club (for pleasure) ; the professional

orchestra was that of Guy Lyman [eouliirhe-mean Abe LymaA?] , then*

here on the Orpheum circuit. BWs group then began getting a few

spot jobs; they (Earl CrumJo now in the band) also booked into the

Roosevelt Hotel^s Venetian Room [now Blue Room?] for the winter/^

BEN^IE WHITE3

Reel I lof 2]-Digest-RetypeMarch 16, 1961

and to the West End Roof Garden for the summer; they operated

about 4 seasons in this manner [for approximate time check record

labels]. BW tells of playing at the West End Roof Garden/ and of

being hired to play some big home on a slow night at the Roof Gar-

den- BW tells of rhhearsing every afternoon at the Roof Garden;

1/2 of the band rehearsed while the other 1/2 danced with colleg e

girls-then, vice versa.

Columbia Recording Co. wanted an original number on the first

Owls' session, so "Owls' Hoot" was done. About two years later,

the band went to Atlanta [headquarters for C&ifcumbia in the South

then], where they recorded a total of 15 numbers (counting the

earlier session). Other than "Eccentric" and "West End Romp,"the numbers recorded at the latter session were numbers Columbi a

ordered the band to play, things they hadn't played before. [Cjg.

discogr^ihies.]

BW says that when the Owls first started playing, ther e were

few white [jazz] bands in existence? the good jazz bands were

colored.

BW repeats that the original Owls had no intention of becoming

professional musicians/ but just sort of drifted into playing fora living,

After the Roosevelt Hotel job, the Owls played a week at the

BEN J IE WHITE 4Reel I [of 2]-Digest"- Retyi>eMarch 16, 1961

Strand Theater; later/ they went on the Orpheum stage for a week;../.^

tla© -t^^ played at Victory Inn; then to the Edgewater Gulf Hotel,

Biloxi, which they opened [i.e., were the first band to play the

place after it opened]; they also played for the opening night

(only) of the New Markham Hotel, Gulfport. "While playing the

Strand tHeater [circuit ??], the band went on four through

Louisiana, Mississippi, and into Arkansas; BW tells of a couple

of Arkansas jobs, mentioning one in Smackover. The tour was before

the band went into the Roosevelt Hotel job. Leaving the Edgewater

Gulf Hotel job, the band went to the Halfway House (now Orkin

Exterminators building) in New Orleans? [Abbie] Brunies* band had

played there previously. After that job, some of the bandsmen de-

cided to complete their education (Rene Gelpi became an architect,

Siegfried Christensen [piano], became a lawyer), BWs wife-to-be

decided he would not play music if he married her, so a number of

the men [including BW] dropped out. The remainder [plus replace-

ments, probably-PRC], including Earl Crumb, took a job playing,

BW thinks, at the Suburban Gardens

BW remarks that some of the men who played as substitutes with

the Owls Iiave become very well-known in music-i.e. Eddie Miller,

[tenor sax], who played some jobs with the Owls at (what they

called) the Owls' Nest; Nappy Lamare, guitar, who also recorded

BENJIE WHITE 5Reel I [of 2]-Digest-RetypeMarch 16, 1961

("Throwing The Horns"X with the Owls (played guitar, and sang with

Pinky Vidacovich) . [P.V. confirmed to RBA that N. L. and he sang

on this record. Cf. discographies. ] Another was Alfred Gallodora,

"as fine a musician as ever I bumped up against in my life?" Gall^ ^-1

dora played sax.

BW enjoyed-playing more than anything he has ever done in his

life [in a strictly business sense?]; if he had his life to 1 n

ive

over, he might even remain in music.

None of BW's family played music. He studied violin for seven

year's/ tout wouldn't read the music, relying on his ear; his teacher,

Professor Schrenkr found him out on this. He was about 15-16 years

old when he began study^ag violin; he was about 19 when he took up

sax. He was playing professionally about 1920.

The first professional band, the summer on the Mississippi

Gulf Coast, consisted of Fred Qgden, banjo; Eugene Diboll, guitar;

BW and one other, violin (BW later on sax, also) 7 Guy Lyman, per-

cussion. Ogden wrote.cute pieces of music, with words. That

group was the forerunner of the Owls. The original Owls: Red

Mackie [p], Dick Mackie [co], Monk Smith [ ?]/ Eblen Rau, [vl] ,

and BW [ ?]. Mose Ferrer, piano/ joined later; Red Mackie

changed to bass. Ferrer began the Roosevelt Hotel job, but was^

repla.ced b^ C]i^,.L@te'??sen, who made quite a few of t-he recordings with

the band. Red Bolman, trumpet/ was also with the band for a while.

BENJIE WHITE6

Reel I lof 2]-Digest-RetypeMarch 16, 1961

Pinky Vidacovich joined the band at the Roosevelt; Dan LeBlanc

joined, on bass. Billy Burton joined as leader [baton waver

and m.c.J.

End of Reel I

BENJIE WHITE 7Reel 11 [of 2]-Digest- RetypeMarch 16, 1961

Also present: Richard B. Alien, Paul R. Crawford.

The trombone player was Frank Netto, who still plays [bass--

PRC]. He also played violin, and almost any instrument needed.

Eblen Rau, violinr played when the band worked only spot

jobs; when the band began playing steady jobs, he dropped out.

Rau was a good, hot fiddle player, as well as a good classical

player. The band never recorded with a violin in it; BW describes

the routine the band, with violin, would follow on a tune: ensemble,

solos, and final ensemble. They had no arrangements then; later,

in the Roosevelt, they did use arrangements. BW tells how they

were made: Pinky Vidacovich would play a hot solo, which would

be taken down, on paper, by BW; then Sig [Sie^rAed] Christensen,

piano, would work out 3-note harmony for the solo, which the 3

saxes would then learn.

BW recalls playing many times over radio station WSMB; he

also recalls playing over the first radio station in New Orleans,

which was in the Interstate Building, probably on Carcndelet

Street, They were not pai^ for this job.

The Owls got their solosats st^le [partially] from listening

to many bands on radio rather than from recordings as a rule. Big

bands were popular then at least in the East, but not so popular

in the South. [Paul Whiteman arrived to play a 3-day engagement

in New Orleans, departed after one day here). One band which in-

BENJIE WHITE 8Reel II [of 2]-Digest--RetypeMarch 16, 1961

spired the [early] group was that of Louis "Satchmo" Armstrong,

playing at least once a month at the Tulane Gym; another was the^

A. J. Piron band (^S? enjoyed the alto sax playing of Louis Warnick

in that band) . A white man playing sax at the White House in

Biloxi had a beautiful tone, which BW tried to emulate; it was

not Curly Lizana,

Billy Burton came to fhe Roosevelt Hotel, traveling with an

act; he was set up as leader of the Owls during the engagement

of that act; when the act was to leave, Burton asked to be retained

as leader of the Owls. The Roosevelt Hotel agreed, and Burton

reirtAined, being merely the front man. He also acted as leader

and m.c. when the band played the Orpheum Theater for one week.

Earl Crumb was an original member of the Owls [original drummer-

see Reel I], and remained with the band until the end; Crumb wa s

the business manager of the Owls. The Asparagus Club was mentioned

in [musicians' union bulletin) "The Prelude?" BW doesn't recall

that name, but says that Crumb continued playing after the Owls

broke up, along with Monk Smith, Pinky Vidacovich and others.

They took an engagement at the Beverly Gardens, but not as the

Owls. BW quit playing in 1928. The Owls played for practically

all the carnival organizations,

On the records/ BW took the sax solo on "Oh Me, Oh My" and

BENJIE WHITE9

Reel II [of 2]-Digest-RetypeMarch 16, 1961

"Owls' Hoot?" Pinky Vidacovich, on clarinet and alto sax, played

the reed solos on the later recordings, in the section/ W was

lead alto, Pinky was 3rd, and Monk Smith played [2nd sax] tenor.

BW played clarinet only in clarinet trios; the three reed men allhad soprano saxes, too,

The tunes the Owls recorded were not representative of the *

ir reper-

toire; they regularly played the old standard tunes-"High Society,"

"Eccentric," "Sweetheart of Sigma Chi," "Purple Rose of Cairo,"

"Wang Wang Blues," etc. When the band went into the Roosevelt/

they began playing stock orchestrations, just as other bands did;

BW thinks the Owls began loosing their individuality then, althoughthey would use a [solo and/or ad lib ensemble?] chorus here and

there, and would play the stocks in their own style; also, they

used the hot choruses for saxes as previously'described. BW doesn't

think the music they played [at any time, including the early period]

was much for just listening, but it was apparently fine for danc f

ing »

When the Owls began playing, they had no competition; then a band,

including Pinky Vidacovich and pianist Bert Peck, the Princeton

Serenaders/ began playing around; it folded when Vidacovich joined

the Owls. Later/ Jules Bauduc had a very fine band, which played

at [West End?] Roof Garden. "Of course, things were getting modernthen."

BENJIE WHITE 10Reel II [of 2]-Digest-RetypeMarch 16, 1961

/*'

\<r-

^IL

The band BW likes now a-^'the Dukes of Dix%eland; he says Al Hirt.^

does .not play the old style Jazz,

Red and Dick Mackie dropped out of the Owls when the landf

went into the Roosevelt Hotel job; Bill Padron, also from the

Princeton Serenaders, came in on trumpet; Dan LeBlanc came *

in on

bass; Frank Netto, trombone, ihoined then, as did Vidacovich [Cf-

records and discographies]. Mose Ferrer, still with the band, was

shortly afterward replaced by Christensen. At the e&s-ly g.ob, at

the Quartier Club, Red Mackie was the pianist; Dick Mackie played

cornet. Red Mackie later played bass, when Ferrer came in on

piano. Red is still around; BW thinks Dick Mackie died [no-Ed-

mond Soucho?x said Dick has begun, playing his comet again recently-PRC/

(1§63?>RBA}. Monk Smith is dead; he was the only tenor sax player the

Owls ever had, so the tenor solos, if any, on the records, are by

Smith* Smitli also doubled on guitar; one of the nicest things the

Owls ever played had Vidacovich playing low-register clarinet,

Smith on guitar and Rene Gelpi playing a specially-made banjo-

guitar (Gelpi played 5-string banjo; he had a 5-sfcring guitar-i

[mentioned] ^ade, just like the banjo). The trio played a number

of tunes in that manner. Gelpi could take solos, plys being a

a rhythm banjo player. BW mentions that Snoozer Quinn played

with the band a few jobs at a hotel in Bay St. Louis/ playing

BENJIE WHITE 11Reel II [of 2]--Digest-RetypeMarch 16, 1961

Saturday nights; the time was after the steady hotel jobs; Quinn

played 4 or 5 jobs with them. BW mentions that Quinn went with

Paul Whiteman for a short while, bet became homesick, he thinks *

Monk Hazel is quoted as having said Quinn came home because

Whiteman kept him awake all the time, playing for friends [White-

man was displaying Quinn's virtuesity-PRC]. BW says Hazel was

a good player [drummer]; RBA assures him that Hazel is still

alive; PRC says Hazel and D^n LeBlanc work at the Famous Door;

BW says he'll go see them sometime. BW mentions that he didn't

even know Eddie Miller had played a few weeks at Pete Fountain's

until Miller was leaving. Godfrey Hirscli [vibraphone with Fountain]

is mentioned, BW got to ^tee Hilton .["Nappy"] Lamare, in townf

about two years ago.

The 6 & 7/8 band was the only string band, other than the out-

fit BW and the others had on the Gulf Coast, around that BW knew

about. RBA says Johnny ["Wiggs"] Hyman told him he was in a string

band called^he Invincibles; BW knows Hyman, went to school together.*

?,

E^ tells of sessions he, Hyman, Earl Crumb, Siegried Chris tens en,

Vidacpvich would have at a studio where Hyman taught, several yearsT-<*

ago-no listener!'a-/other than the players* wives. [Probably in

the Eprties. CF. Johnny Wiggs reel ?* RBA]

BW talks of the pleasure music has brought him; he mentions

BENJIE WHITE 12Reel II [of 2]-Digest-RetypeMarch 16, 1961

the way his playing violin helped ease his way in Williston [Eastern

prep school] , which he attended -

The Owls had Louis Prima as substitute for Bill Padron fo r one

night; they didn't think so much of him then, as he jumped around

and shouted; BW has revised his opinion of Prima.

End of Reel II