Gawker

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

AULISTAR MARK, et al., etc.,

Plaintiffs,

v.

GAWKER MEDIA LLC and NICK DENTON,

Defendants.

Case No.: 13-CV-04347 (AJN)

AFFIDAVIT OF MARK BATTEN

I, Mark Batten, hereby depose and state:

1. I am a partner at the law firm ofProskauer Rose LLP. I make this declaration on

personal knowledge.

2. True and correct excerpts from the deposition of Aulistar Mark are attached

hereto at Tab 1.

3. True and correct excerpts from the deposition of Stephen Totilo are attached

hereto at Tab 2.

4. True and correct excerpts from the deposition of Andrew Hudson are attached

hereto at Tab 3.

5. A true and correct copy of an e-mail from Aulistar Mark to Stephen Totilo with

the subject: "Re: Offer of Kotaku Internship," which was Exhibit 3 at Mark's deposition, is

attached hereto at Tab 4.

6. A true and correct copy of an e-mail from Stephen Totilo to Aulistar Mark with

the subject: "Re: Internship Guidelines," which was Exhibit 13 at Mark's deposition, is


Case 1:13-cv-04347-AJN Document 149 Filed 08/14/15 of 74

7. A true and correct copy of an e-mail from Aulistar Mark with the subject:

"Learning Agreement Form and Acceptance letter" with related attachments, which was Exhibit

14 at Mark's deposition, is attached hereto at Tab 6.

8. A true and correct copy of an e-mail from Rebecca Schall to Aulistar Mark with

the subject: "Journall" with related attachments, which was Exhibit 16 at Mark's deposition, is



the subject: "July TimeSheet and Supervisor Evaluation" with related attachments, which was

Exhibit 19 at Mark's deposition, is attached hereto at Tab 8.


the subject: "Aulistar Mark- Intern of the Past" with related attachments, which was Exhibit 22

at Mark's deposition, is attached hereto at Tab 9.

I declare under the penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and conect.

Dated: August 14, 2015

2


Tab 1


(877) 702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide

Page 1

1 A. Mark

2 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

3 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

4

5 -------------------------------x

AULISTAR MARK, et al.,

6

Plaintiffs,

7 Civil Action

vs. No. 13-cv-04347

8 (AIN)

9 GAWKER MEDIA

10 Defendants.

11 -------------------------------x

12

13

14

15 DEPOSITION OF AULISTAR MARK

16 New York, New York

17 Tuesday, April 8, 2014

18

19

20

21

22

23 Reported by:

24 THOMAS A. FERNICOLA, RPR

25 JOB NO. 71500



Page 17

1 A. Mark

2 A. Yes. Before interning at Gawker, I

3 was a, of course, a journalism student at The

4 New School.

5 Q. Uh-huh.

6 A. Besides that I was also a writer for

7 the Hartford -- the University of Hartford

8 newspaper, as well as The New School

9 newspaper, essentially as reporter; two years

10 of reporting experience before moving on to

11 Gawker internship.

12 Q. Uh-huh.

13 Anything else, any other journalism

14 experience?

15 A. No. No. No, other journalism

16 experience.

17 Q. What documents do you have that

18 relate to your internship at Gawker?

19 A. With me, like say now or --

20 Q. No. Just in your possession in

21 general?

22 A. In my possession in general.

23 Q. Yes.

24 A. I actually don't have any physical

25 documents; however, I do have all of the



Page 48

1 A. Mark

2 Do you see that?

3 A. Uh-huh.

4 Q. Did you get college credit for this

5 internship?

6 A. I did, yes.

7 Q. Would you say you got additional

8 real world experience?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And did you get a foot into the door

11 of the world of video game journalism?

12 A. No. So, no.

13 Q. Why not?

14 A. Huh. Because video game journalism

15 is a very difficult world to get into, with a

16 very limited amount of slots available for

17 actual journalists who would actually like to

18 do it, as with the journalism industry in

19 general.

20 Q. There just aren't that many jobs; is

21 that what you're saying?

22 A. There really aren't that many jobs.

23 So, essentially, I might have had an easier

24 time getting -- putting my foot into the door

25 of the world of video game journalism just by



Page 51

1 A. Mark

2 A. Essentially by attempting to be a

3 freelance video game journalist, by putting

4 stories to -- putting stories to websites,

5 websites and magazines, based around

6 technology and video games. It was not

7 financially -- financially stable.

8 MS. PAPARELLA: Can we take a break?

9 MR. BATTEN: Sure.

10 (Recess taken from 2:35 p.m. to

11 2:44 p.m.)

12 (Mark's Exhibit 3, Series of

13 EMails, was marked for identification.)

14 BY MR. BATTEN:

15 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 3?

16 A. One moment.

17 Q. Sure. Take your time.

18 A. (Document Review.)

19 Okay.

20 Could you repeat the question.

21 Q. Do you recognize these emails?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. In the bottom one on the first page

24 from Stephen Totilo, he offers you the

25 opportunity to intern and says, "an unpaid for



Page 52

1 A. Mark

2 credit editorial internship"; right?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. So you knew before you started that

5 it was unpaid; correct?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. Did you have a problem with that at

8 the time?

9 A. Actually, I essentially made the

10 decision, I weighed the pros and cons. Of

11 course, I had a mother who says, why are you

12 working for free. But I made the decision

13 that working for free was worth the benefit of

14 having Gawker on my resume.

15 Q. Okay.

16 And you were going to get college

17 credit also?

18 A. I was going to get college credit

19 for it. That wasn't so much something I was

20 particularly interested in, although that was

21 an advantage.

22 Q. Why were you not particularly

23 interested in it?

24 A. Because I didn't necessarily need

25 college credits and because it does complicate



Page 55

1 A. Mark

2 Q. I see.

3 And what tier did you selected?

4 A. I selected the tier of six credits,

5 because I needed to get financial aid in order

6 to pay for the credits.

7 Q. So six credits, is that what you

8 said?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And so how many hours a week did you

11 need to intern to get six credits?

12 A. You needed to intern for 220 hours.

13 Q. Total?

14 A. The whole entire total, yes.

15 Q. So it didn't matter how many in any

16 given week, as long as you hit the total at

17 the end?

18 A. Essentially. So, I needed to have a

19 total of 220 hours logged on my time sheets.

20 (Mark's Exhibit 4, EMail setting

21 Schedule, was marked for identification.)

22 BY MR. BATTEN:

23 Q. Is Exhibit 4 the email you were

24 referring to where you set the start and end

25 date?



Page 63

1 A. Mark

2 (Mark's Exhibit 7, Internship

3 Proposal for The New School, was marked

4 for identification.)

5 BY MR. BATTEN:

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. Do you recognize this document?

8 A. I don't.

9 Q. Did you have to prepare an

10 internship proposal for The New School?

11 A. I did.

12 Q. Was that what this is?

13 A. It looks like this is it.

14 Q. Did you have to submit anything else

15 to The New School to get the internship

16 approved or was this enough?

17 A. In order to qualify for credits at

18 The New School, it was required that you take

19 an internship class. So, once a week I had to

20 meet with an internship advisor who

21 essentially taught a class which had

22 additional things, like employment training

23 and resume writing, cover letter writing, on

24 top of discussing the -- our particular

25 internships and our internship experiences



Page 64

1 A. Mark

2 with other students who were doing internships

3 through The New School or rather through

4 various employers throughout New York, but

5 still being required to take this internship

6 class once a week.

7 There was, of course, other

8 documents required as part of this internship

9 program, including time sheets and evaluations

10 from intern supervisors or the supervisors

11 chosen by, I guess the internship and the

12 particular intern or student. In this case,

13 it was Stephen Totilo.

14 Q. Uh-huh.

15 But to get the internship approved

16 in the first instance, was it just this piece

17 of paper?

18 A. Can you rephrase the question? Do

19 you mean -- get it approved by who?

20 Q. By the school.

21 A. To get the internship approved by

22 the school was just this piece of paper.

23 Now was this a question, did I have

24 to do internship evaluation in order to get an

25 internship?



Page 81

1 A. Mark

2 period of time where the internship, The New

3 School career services internship class, and,

4 therefore, like the period of time where this

5 occurred happened.

6 So, basically, my time sheets had to

7 reflect -- my time sheets had to reflect that

8 I worked this many hours in this particular

9 time; however, I can't tell you for sure about

10 the fact that I worked -- I was working

11 basically a month before and a couple weeks

12 after the internship.

13 And I believe I might have actually

14 asked if I could just then place those hours

15 and put it on a time sheet so it reflects on

16 the time sheet for official newspaper -- New

17 School paperwork that I worked 220 hours in

18 the time frame that The New School requires

19 this 220 hours to happen.

20 And it goes along with how I said

21 where interns would start for the internship

22 period and after the internship period or even

23 carry over their internship that they had in

24 the previous internship semester on to this

25 internship semester.



Page 83

1 A. Mark

2 (Mark's Exhibit 14, The New School

3 Learning Agreement, was marked for

4 identification.)

5 THE WITNESS: Okay.

6 BY MR. BATTEN:

7 Q. What is this document?

8 A. This is The New School College

9 learning agreement that's given to students

10 and they have to submit this as part of their

11 internship course.

12 Q. Was your supervisor required to sign

13 off on this in some way?

14 A. I believe he actually was. Wherever

15 it says above his signature, that's

16 essentially where my supervisor had to sign

17 off and it had to be submitted to my

18 internship course supervisor,

19 counselor/supervisor.

20 Q. Okay.

21 And this one isn't signed. Do you

22 know whether Stephen signed it and returned

23 it?

24 A. I don't know. I don't know.

25 Q. Okay.



Page 84

1 A. Mark

2 If you start with the second page,

3 which looks like a cover letter form.

4 A. Uh-huh.

5 Q. It's dated June 24, 2010.

6 Do you see that?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. So you were about a month into the

9 internship at this point; is that right?

10 A. Uh-huh.

11 Q. And you described Kotaku in the body

12 of the letter as one of the epicenters of

13 video game journalism.

14 Is that how you felt at the time?

15 A. Yes. It still is. That's how I

16 feel right now.

17 Q. Uh-huh.

18 "And to be given an opportunity to

19 work for Kotaku is an experience that many

20 covet and few would think to pass up."

21 Is that how you felt at the time?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Okay.

24 If you turn two pages on to the page

25 that starts Learning Goals/Objective No. 1.



Page 85

1 A. Mark

2 Do you see that?

3 A. Uh-huh.

4 Q. And I gather you wrote, "Learn to

5 write/investigate in a fast-paced

6 environment"; correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did you write that or did Stephen

9 write that?

10 A. I don't know for sure.

11 Q. Okay.

12 Well, it's described as the learning

13 goal or objective; right?

14 A. Yes. So I believe I wrote it.

15 Q. Okay.

16 And do you feel like you achieved

17 that goal?

18 A. I mean, the truth is that when I did

19 a lot of this paperwork, I essentially did it

20 just to get it done because I didn't care.

21 As an internship, they required that

22 I have a learning goal and objective, and I

23 needed to have a learning agreement to do an

24 internship.

25 Q. Understood.



Page 86

1 A. Mark

2 A. And so essentially I wrote that I'm

3 going to learn to write and investigate. That

4 was the truth and that's essentially what I

5 wrote here on this piece of paper.

6 Q. And so I'm asking, according to that

7 document, did you learn to write and

8 investigate in a fast-paced environment?

9 A. If anything, I built on my previous

10 experience and I actually had the opportunity

11 to work in a fast-paced news environment or a

12 faster pace news environment like Gawker under

13 tight deadlines and with working with other

14 editorial staff.

15 So, in that case, yes, I gained

16 experience. I did learn some things.

17 Q. Uh-huh.

18 Learning Goal/Objective No. 2,

19 half-way down the page, says, "Fine tune my

20 writing style to the progressive world of

21 blogging."

22 Would you say you achieved that?

23 A. Yes, I'd say I achieved that.

24

25



Page 91

1 A. Mark

2 first paragraph.

3 Q. End of the first paragraph.

4 A. Yes, that's accurate.

5 Q. Uh-huh.

6 Then at the bottom of that same

7 page, you say, "Overall, I look forward to the

8 next two months with optimism"; right?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. "It's been a slow and gradual start,

11 but I feel I can say I've been learning more

12 about my craft, as well as what I'm capable of

13 than I've ever learned in a classroom."

14 Is that how you felt?

15 A. I felt, going into Kotaku, that it

16 was really more of like a work experience

17 than, say -- I guess I would basically -- yes,

18 it was more a work experience than a learning

19 experience.

20 I felt like I benefited from being

21 dropped into what was essentially a work

22 experience.

23 Q. Okay.

24 And did you learn more about your

25 craft as well as what you're capable of than



Page 92

1 A. Mark

2 you had ever learned in a classroom?

3 A. I did, because I've never been

4 required to write as many articles as quickly

5 as I had to have written them as I was at

6 Kotaku. Never before have I had to both, you

7 know, draft and write several posts a day,

8 have them published and do it again the next

9 day or the next time I was in the office.

10 Q. Okay.

11 "I've had internships in the past,

12 both good and bad, but not as truly hands-on

13 as Kotaku."

14 Is that true?

15 A. Yes. Because my previous

16 internships, I didn't really get to -- like

17 being able to just write something and see it

18 on the Internet, like here's I show you within

19 an hour is not something that -- when I was at

20 the West Hartford Community Television, I was

21 essentially with a mentor and he walked me

22 through ever every single step of, you know,

23 initially video editing. That's where I first

24 learned how to video edit on something called

25 Video Toaster. No one uses. It's from the



Page 93

1 A. Mark

2 '80s and '90s. But there it was really sort

3 of a mentor teaching me how to do what he

4 already knows how to do.

5 At Blue Magazine it was really sort

6 of -- it was really -- that's really some of

7 the ones of those terrible internships where,

8 okay, you're in the office, yes, you're

9 writing a newsletter. But I felt like I

10 didn't really accomplish as much as I

11 accomplished at Kotaku.

12 At Kotaku I appreciated the fact I

13 was basically treated as a writer. And so I

14 obviously worked as a blog writer. I was -- I

15 had high expectations on me, and I feel like I

16 then produced, you know, I produced stuff and

17 I kind of proven to myself that I was capable

18 of doing these multiple stories and working at

19 the speed and working in a work environment

20 like Kotaku, and I appreciated the fact that I

21 had that experience, I learned that about

22 myself.

23

24

25



Page 95

1 A. Mark

2 A. Second column -- sorry. What?

3 Q. Down here at the bottom.

4 A. Oh, yes, sorry. Last comment.

5 Q. Uh-huh.

6 "Have you been able to talk to your

7 supervisor about ways in which he feels you

8 can grow in tools of the trade."

9 Do you see that?

10 A. I do.

11 Q. Did you talk to Stephen about that?

12 A. I don't remember, so I don't know.

13 Q. All right.

14 If you turn to the next page, which

15 is stamped 190 at the bottom. If you look at

16 the second comment, which is it says C6,

17 Ms. Schmall writes, "It sounds as though you

18 are learning to work within the ebbs and flows

19 of the media industry and its inconsistent

20 schedules."

21 Do you agree with that?

22 A. Yes, I agree with that. I agree

23 that doing an internship at Kotaku made me, as

24 she said, I learned the ebbs and flows and the

25 schedule that is working in the media



Page 96

1 A. Mark

2 industry, and I continued, you know, to do

3 that even though.

4 Q. Uh-huh.

5 And the next comment she says, "You

6 are gaining very valuable experience and

7 increasing your skill set."

8 Do you agree with that?

9 A. I believe I did. I did some -- I

10 tried some initial things at Kotaku. Like I

11 did photo editing where I edited a picture of

12 the president of Nintendo on top of a pirate

13 ship. That is not something that I knew how

14 to do before.

15 I just said, okay, do I know how to

16 use Photoshop, I guess I do, let me do it. So

17 I did get to try some things that might have

18 not have tried if I hadn't had to like

19 essentially prove myself at Kotaku.

20 Q. Okay.

21 And at the bottom it says, the last

22 comment on that same page, she writes, "It

23 sounds as though you are building confidence

24 and learning deeply about yourself."

25 Do you think she was right about



Page 113

1 A. Mark

2 to Stephen Totilo on April 2nd, 2011, you say,

3 "Once again, thank you for giving me the

4 opportunity to work under you at Kotaku. I

5 learned a lot and have moved forward since

6 then."

7 Is that true?

8 A. That's true.

9 Q. And you ask him if he'd write a

10 general recommendation letter as a previous

11 boss and mentor; right?

12 A. I did. That's true.

13 Q. Do you consider him a mentor?

14 A. I do.

15 Q. And he says he'd be happy to write a

16 letter of recommendation in the next email.

17 Did he -- did he do that?

18 A. I never received a letter of

19 recommendation, unfortunately.

20 MR. BATTEN: All right. Let's take

21 a moment.

22 (Recess taken from 4:25 p.m. to

23 4:28 p.m.)

24 MR. BATTEN: I have nothing further.

25 Thank you.


Tab 2


12 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT3 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK4 --------------------------------------X5 AULISTAR MARK, et al.,6 Plaintiffs,78 - against- Civil Action No.9 13-cv-04347-AJN1011 GAWKER MEDIA LLC, and NICK DENTON,12 Defendants.13 --------------------------------------X1415 October 14, 201416 10:18 a.m.1718 Deposition of Defendant Gawker Media19 LLC by STEPHEN TOTILO, held at the offices20 of Liddle & Robinson, L.L.P., 800 Third21 Avenue, New York, New York, pursuant to22 Notice, before NANCY SORENSEN, a Notary23 Public of the State of New York.2425

Page 1

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY212-279-9424 www.veritext.com 212-490-3430


1 S. Totilo2 A. No.3 Q. If you didn't assign an intern work,4 who would assign an intern their work?5 A. The interns, when we would have them,6 would come in and have some expectations and7 understanding of what their opportunities were.8 And at times, if a writer thought9 that the intern could help them out, might ask10 for help.11 At times, the intern might show the12 initiative to volunteer to do something. So at13 times, the interns were occupied without, I14 would say, anybody assigning them.15 It was very much the way we operated.16 If you have ideas and you show initiative and17 you do things. And there are also instances18 when I would encourage an intern to, say, pitch19 articles.20 I don't know if we would consider21 that assigning or not. It's not me saying you22 must do this or else. It's me encouraging and23 saying it would be great if you could write24 something. You should go, maybe write an25 article. Things like that.

Page 26



1 S. Totilo2 of the piece by the time it was published.3 Q. How much time did you spend with him4 on this?5 A. I don't recall specifically. But6 like I said, this was wasn't a, let's talking7 about it on a Monday and it gets published on a8 Tuesday.9 This was a series of weeks of him10 forming the idea going out, reporting. Me11 giving feedback on drafts.12 It was much longer than is the13 typical period of time that a writer would be14 working on an article at Kotaku.15 Q. So how long did he work on it for?16 A. I don't recall specifically.17 Q. So how do you know it was longer than18 a typical writer would spend on an article at19 Kotaku?20 A. Kotaku writers write 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,21 some 10 posts a day. Some of them are quite22 short.23 But even the larger reporting pieces,24 a writer can do that and turn that around in a25 day or two, if need be.

Page 31



1 S. Totilo2 interesting articles on the site.3 Q. So it was helpful to have interns4 looking for these republishes; right?5 A. Sure.6 Q. If you look at the paragraph before7 that starts, "Start your intern day," do you see8 where I'm referring to?9 A. Yup.10 Q. It goes on to say that they should go11 back through the past 24 hours worth of posts12 and copy editing.13 "This means reading through the posts14 and then alerting us in camp with any mistakes15 you find. We'll then give you the green light16 to fix them."17 A. Um-hmm.18 Q. Can you tell by this what19 Mr. Crecente is asking interns to do?20 A. He's asking the interns to help copy21 edit articles on the site.22 Q. For what purpose?23 A. To help improve the articles and,24 obviously, give them more experience with this.25 Q. Is this something you've ever asked

Page 77



1 S. Totilo2 -- that anybody at Kotaku has asked full-time3 employees to do, to go back and look over the4 past 24 hours at posts to copy edit them?5 A. Not that I recall.6 Q. It says, "Each of you will be tapped7 to help out with reporting and writing."8 A. Um-hmm.9 Q. When it says, "help out," who is it10 referring to, as best as you can tell?11 A. He's asking or he's advising the12 interns that they'd be tapped to help others on13 the Kotaku staff, or himself, with reporting and14 writing.15 Q. Does Gawker still have interns?16 A. I don't think so. But, again, I'm17 more capable of speaking to Kotaku than Gawker18 as a whole.19 Q. Does Kotaku have any interns?20 A. No.21 Q. Why not?22 A. It's not -- in my judgment as23 editor-in-chief, it's not really -- it takes a24 lot of time to mentor and work with interns, and25 you don't get a huge amount of work out of them.

Page 78



1 S. Totilo2 couldn't do the research project.3 The copy editing, unfortunately,4 probably just wouldn't have gotten done.5 Q. When was the last time Kotaku had6 interns?7 A. We had interns in the early part of8 2012, right after I took over as9 editor-in-chief. And those were the last10 interns that I can recall.11 Q. So did you make the decision to stop12 having interns?13 A. Yeah.14 Q. Was it in consultation with anyone15 else?16 A. No, we had one editorial fellow after17 that, but I just decided it wasn't worth it.18 Q. So the editorial fellow sort of took19 on the role that interns typically were20 assigned?21 A. Yeah, more or less, yes.22 Q. And they were paid; right?23 A. Yes.24 Q. Why were they paid?25 A. I remember being told that we were

Page 80



1 S. Totilo2 A. For an intern in New York like3 Aulistar, it was when he would be in the office,4 you know, showing up and leaving.5 Or for remote interns, it would6 similarly be when they'd check in or check out7 of Campfire, the chat room that we use to all8 talk.9 I mean, of course, it's, these are10 media jobs, so the hours aren't quite fixed for11 those who actually work them.12 They're not quite fixed even if13 you're an intern kind of learning the14 experience, so there's a fluidity there. But15 you, you know, sort of use those guidelines.16 Q. So if you wanted to look back at17 these chat room logs, assuming they still18 existed, you could see when an intern, I guess,19 got to work and left work; is that right?20 A. Well, you wouldn't really see that21 for an intern based in the New York office22 because you wouldn't know when they walked in23 the door or when they left, necessarily.24 Although they might say hey, I'm here25 or I'm not. And similar, if you're remote, you

Page 101



1 S. Totilo2 might see them saying that, you might not.3 Q. So there's no requirement that they4 let people know that they were there or when5 they were leaving, as far as you remember?6 A. There was a custom to say hi and7 good-bye. But, no, I mean there's no like time8 clock or punching or anything like that, no.9 Q. Did interns receive any training10 other than hands-on training?11 A. The only training, if you want to12 call it that, is the continued exposure to13 working with full-time Kotaku writers and14 reporters, while they're doing their internship,15 as far as I can recall.16 Q. So if you're a full-time writer or17 editor of Kotaku, you're presumably getting that18 same training that an intern would be getting,19 right, because you're, like you just described,20 working with other editors and writers at21 Kotaku; is that fair?22 A. No.23 Q. Why is it not fair?24 A. Because in your question you're25 implying that the skill set of an intern is

Page 102



1 S. Totilo2 Q. Are you saying that the sites don't3 all have the same positions?4 A. Every site has the editor-in-chief,5 as far as I am aware. Although I have not6 really checked.7 Sites have deputy editors or managing8 editors. Sites have reporters, but it's like we9 have video editors on our team. A lot of the10 other sites don't have video editors. So, yeah,11 it differs from site to site.12 Q. Do you know of any intern ever being13 disciplined in any way by Gawker or their weblog14 or anything like that?15 A. I don't remember anything like that,16 no.17 Q. If you ever had a problem with an18 intern, what would you do about it?19 A. I guess it depends what the problem20 was.21 Q. That's fair. Is it something that22 you would handle by yourself or would there be a23 situation where you'd be compelled to speak to24 somebody from the parent company Gawker?25 A. You're dealing in hypotheticals. If

Page 119



1 S. Totilo2 by "problem," we mean the type of things that3 you expect from an extremely junior and green4 person who's learning, the problem may be they5 missed a deadline or something or their story6 pitches are bad or it's entirely appropriate7 that you'd work internally within the editorial8 team.9 If you mean something beyond that, I10 guess I would have reached out to others in the11 company for, you know, advice about what should12 I do.13 But we're in hypotheticals. I don't14 recall ever having a problem with any of our15 interns that required anything beyond the16 editorial team's involvement.17 MR. ADLER: Let's take another very18 short break.19 (Brief recess taken.)20 FURTHER EXAMINATION21 BY MR. ADLER:22 Q. Do you know who Gaby Darbyshire is?23 A. Yes.24 Q. Who is she?25 A. She's one of the early employees of

Page 120



Tab 3



Page 1

1 A. Hudson

2 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

3 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

4

5 -------------------------------x

AULISTAR MARK, et al.,

6

Plaintiffs,

7 Civil Action

vs. No. 13-cv-04347

8 (AIN)

9 GAWKER MEDIA

10 Defendants.

11 -------------------------------x

12

13

14

15 DEPOSITION OF ANDREW HUDSON

16 New York, New York

17 Tuesday, April 8, 2014

18

19

20

21

22

23 Reported by:

24 THOMAS A. FERNICOLA, RPR

25 JOB NO. 71500



Page 8

1 A. Hudson

2 Q. When was that?

3 A. I went to college here; so, four

4 years, from 2005 through 2009.

5 Q. Okay.

6 What college did you attend?

7 A. Fordham College at Lincoln Center.

8 Q. Did you get a degree?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. What was that?

11 A. BA in political science.

12 Q. Where did you go to high school?

13 A. Webster Groves High School in

14 Webster Groves, Missouri.

15 Q. Did you have any other educational

16 degrees other than the BA from Fordham?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Have you attended any other classes?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Okay.

21 Other than political science, what

22 did you study at Fordham?

23 A. I had a minor in creative writing.

24 Q. And what did that involve in terms

25 of the work?



Page 9

1 A. Hudson

2 A. I mean, a number of classes and, you

3 know, English classes and journalism classes

4 that together construed the creative writing

5 program.

6 Q. Okay.

7 So there was a journalism component

8 to it; is that right?

9 A. Yes. That was one of the ways that

10 you could get the minor, I believe; and, so, I

11 took a journalism workshop and some journalism

12 classes and those turned into a communication

13 major with a creative writing minor.

14 Q. So creative writing didn't

15 necessarily mean fiction; is that right?

16 A. Not necessarily, but there were some

17 other classes.

18 Q. So which journalism classes did you

19 take?

20 A. I took the journalism workshop twice

21 or three times. Twice. Which basically

22 involved working on the student newspaper at

23 Fordham, Lincoln Center. I took magazine

24 writing, online journalism.

25 That's all I can remember.



Page 12

1 A. Hudson

2 at -- I applied broadly to a number of

3 different schools.

4 Q. What Ph.D. program is that?

5 A. Depending on the school, it was

6 either political science or sociology.

7 Q. Have you been accepted in any of

8 those programs?

9 A. No. I got accepted to me one, but

10 it was a lot of money to go, so...

11 Q. Where was that?

12 A. That was at The New School.

13 Q. Are there places that you're waiting

14 to hear from still?

15 A. No. This was -- this was a while

16 back, yes.

17 Q. Was The New School the only school

18 from which you received an acceptance?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. What have you been doing since you

21 left Fordham, since you graduated?

22 A. I've been working as a journalist,

23 editor, consultant, writer, communications

24 consultant.

25



Page 56

1 A. Hudson

2 certainly a business like Gawker is based on

3 producing a constant stream of new content

4 throughout the day.

5 Q. How many posts on average appeared

6 on io9 per day during the time you were

7 interning there?

8 A. I don't recall.

9 Q. Can you give me a ballpark?

10 A. Probably dozens may -- a dozen or

11 maybe several dozen. I don't recall. I think

12 it was something like, you know, multiple

13 posts every hour for the workday.

14 THE WITNESS: I'm going to run to

15 the restroom, if that's okay.

16 MR. BATTEN: Sure.

17 (Recess taken from 11:00 a.m. to

18 11:05 a.m.)

19 BY MR. BATTEN:

20 Q. How did you first hear about

21 internships at io9?

22 A. My roommate at the time, Fred Tann

23 (phonetic), had been a regular reader of io9,

24 and he saw a posting on the blog mentioning

25 that they were looking for summer interns and



Page 59

1 A. Hudson

2 discovery?

3 A. I had seen it. I had seen it around

4 since it launched. I think I saw it when it

5 first launched because Cory Doctorow posted

6 about it and I read, you know, his work on

7 BoingBoing.net, and so I visited them when it

8 came out and occasionally when things got sent

9 to me.

10 Q. Did you apply for interns other than

11 at io9, either at Gawker blogs or elsewhere?

12 A. At that -- at that time?

13 Q. At this time, yes.

14 A. I don't believe so.

15 Q. Did the posting that you reviewed

16 and were responding to here in Exhibit 2, did

17 it say that the internship was unpaid?

18 A. I don't recall.

19 Q. Do you remember when you found out

20 the internship was unpaid?

21 A. It was either in that posting, if

22 they mentioned it, or if it was when I first

23 spoke with an editor from io9, I think

24 probably Charlie.

25 Q. In addition to the email from



Page 61

1 A. Hudson

2 experience, my skills, my interests, those

3 sort of things.

4 Q. So, in any case, you knew before you

5 started the internship that it was going to be

6 unpaid; correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did that trouble you at the time?

9 A. I certainly would have preferred a

10 paid internship, but it was a -- it didn't

11 seem like the -- it didn't seem like the

12 biggest deal, but I thought it was going to

13 get a good experience out of it.

14 Q. So it didn't seem exploitive to you

15 at the time?

16 A. At the time I was not as conscious

17 of the problematic nature of unpaid

18 internships and the effects they have on the

19 workforce and the people that take them and

20 sort of society in general.

21 And I guess I thought I was going to

22 get a good training experience out of it. And

23 I just -- I wasn't as aware of, you know, some

24 of the basic ideas of people should be paid

25 for their labor.



Page 62

1 A. Hudson

2 I mean, I think I probably believed

3 that, but it wasn't something that was at the

4 forefront of my mind.

5 Q. Was academic credit discussed in

6 these conversations before your internship

7 began?

8 A. I don't recall. It may have. But

9 if it was, it was brief, because it didn't

10 seem like something that -- like we were going

11 to be able to arrange academic credit and,

12 anyways, I didn't need any more credits to

13 graduate.

14 And I wasn't sure how taking

15 academic credit would -- for an internship

16 would play into my scholarship at Fordham,

17 so...

18 Q. Did Fordham offer credit for

19 internships as a general matter?

20 A. I think they definitely did offer

21 credit for internships, but I think that the

22 broad spectrum of universities, they were more

23 stringent about what qualified for credit and

24 the requirements you had to -- the hoops you

25 had to jump through to get credit for them.



Page 63

1 A. Hudson

2 Q. In any case, I take it you never

3 pursued credit from Fordham; is that right?

4 A. Correct.

5 Q. Did you speak to anybody at Fordham

6 about the possibility of credit for this

7 internship.

8 A. Not that I recall.

9 Q. Did you read about Fordham's

10 internship practices?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Was the possibility of employment, a

13 paying job at io9 or elsewhere within Gawker,

14 ever discussed before you started your

15 internship?

16 A. I think it was mentioned that they

17 had hired or might hire interns, but it wasn't

18 promised, if that's what you're asking.

19 But, yes, I think it was sort of

20 discussed as a possibility.

21 Q. You didn't take it as a promise?

22 A. No.

23 Q. When did you first talk about a

24 schedule with anyone?

25 A. After they offered me the internship



Page 65

1 A. Hudson

2 Q. The email from Charlie Jane Anders

3 that appears at the beginning of Exhibit 2

4 says that you "would be working with our news

5 reporter, Meredith."

6 That's Meredith Woerner; is that

7 right?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. "On gathering info for news stories

10 and features that she is working on."

11 Is that something that you did

12 during your internship?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. "Plus promoting her stories to other

15 sites and social networks."

16 Did you do that?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And that description sounded

19 appealing to you, obviously, at the time;

20 right?

21 A. Appealing enough that I took the

22 internship. I wasn't dissuaded, yes.

23 It's not a very detailed description

24 but, you know.

25 Q. Were you pleased to be offered the



Page 84

1 A. Hudson

2 And if I found any, I would send

3 those on to Meredith. Or any other weird,

4 interesting things that would be relevant, I

5 would -- it's not exactly like pitching, but

6 it's assisting in finding stories that became

7 posts.

8 Q. All right.

9 So maybe I understood. I thought

10 you had said before that you sent ideas to

11 Meredith saying here's something that someone

12 else could --

13 A. No. No. I helped Meredith with her

14 job as a reporter finding stories to write

15 about.

16 Does that make sense?

17 Q. Yes. Thank you.

18 Did you learn anything from your

19 internship?

20 A. I learned not to take an unpaid

21 internship. That's maybe the biggest life

22 lesson. And I learned some what not to do's

23 from managing people.

24 Q. For example?

25 A. For example, in working with Graeme


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