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14/10/2558 Dharma Wheel • View topic 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

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100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55314)by padma norbu » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:54 pm

something I don't get is it seems like a lot of audio versions of the 100‐syllable mantra aremissing the line SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Case in point:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L0iT5i2CmE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L0iT5i2CmE)

I have counted and read along 5x. It's not there or else it's swapped with ANURAKTO MEBHAVA. This is the 3rd or 4th version I've listened to. Why is this being skipped or swapped?I've not found a version with the two lines swapped or SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA missing.

OM VAJRASATTVA SAMAYA MANUPALAYA, VAJRASATTVA DENOPA TITHA, DIDO ME BHAVA, SUTO KAYO ME BHAVA, SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA, <‐‐ missing line ANURAKTO ME BHAVA, <‐‐ or two lines are swapped (this and above)SARVA SIDDHI ME PRAYATSA, SARVA KARMA SU TSAME, TSITTAM SHRIYAM KURU HUM, HA HA HA HA HO, BHAGAVAN SARVA TATHAGATA, VAJRA MAME MUNTSA, VAJRA BHAVA MAHA SAMAYA SATTVA AH HUM PHET

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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55315)by gnegirl » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:07 pm

Sometimes the Vajras become Benzars on top of it


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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55316)by padma norbu » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:13 pm

Yes, but the lines are swapped. I've never seen it printed that way, but he is definitely sayingANURAKTO... and THEN SUPO KAYO... followed by SARVA SIDDHI... And he's not the first. Ilistened to several online just now trying to find a good one and I finally realized the problemwas this. I thought they were slurring their speech so bad I couldn't figure it out, but theproblem is that they're swapping these two lines.


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55318)by alpha » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:01 pm

the version i was taught goes like thisOM BENZA SATO SAMAYAMANUPALAYABENZA SATO TENOPATRITA DRITO MEBAWASUTO KAYO MEBAWA SUPO KAYO MEBAWAANURAKTO MEBAWASARWA SIDDHI MENTRA YATSASARWA KARMA SUTSA METSITAM SHIRYAM GURU HUMHA HA HA HA HOBHAGAVAN SARVA TATHAGATA,BENZA MAME MUNTSA,BENZABHAWA MAHA SAMAYASATO AH.

In this verssion the lines in question are not swapped or missing


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55319)by conebeckham » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:35 pm

There are a few different "100 Syllable Mantras" of "Vajrasattva"‐‐‐sometimes the lines areswapped as you note....you'll find different versions in various texts. Some have different"endings," as well..."Hung Phet," etc....

These differing versions are usually particular to a given sadhana‐‐for instance, Shangpa's"Nigu Luk Demchok Lha Nga" has a "different" one....particular to that sadhana.

Also, "Vajra" becomes Benzra because that is how that combination of "Tibetanized Sanskrit"letters "va.dzra" is pronounced, following Tibetan pronounciation rules....same with "pa.dma"which becomes "Pema," and so on....


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA















Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55321)by deepbluehum » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:38 pm

This is accurate sanskrit


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55324)by pemachophel » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:39 pm

Padma Norbu,

This is exactly the problem when you try to do a practice which you have not received from aliving Teacher. Although there are different versions of the 100‐syllable Vajrasattva mantra,you do the one you are given by your Teacher. Full stop. End of story. Because you havefound several different versions, there's no way you are going to be able to develop the kindof faith necessary to make such a mantra work. You're always going to be wondering if this isthe correct one or the one you should be doing. These methods require one‐pointed faith.Further, when visualizing a tantric deity, the outer form is the deity but the wisdom mindwhich enlivens that form and makes it work is your Guru's wisdom mind. No Guru, no wisdommind. No wisdom mind, no living practice. So hard to get much of a result.

Nevertheless, good luck and best wishes.


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55325)by Pema Rigdzin » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:47 pm

There are several versions of Vajrasattva's hundred syllable mantra from authentic kama andterma traditions and each is correct and functions perfectly. One reason for the variance isthat there is a form of Vajrasattva in each Buddha family and the mantra in each reflects

Oṃ

Vajrasattva samaya manupālaya |Vajrasattva tvenopatiṣṭha |Dṛḍho me bhava |Sutoṣyo me bhava |Supoṣyo me bhava |Anurakto me bhava |Sarva siddhiṃ me prayaccha |Sarvakarmasu ca me citta śriyaḥ kuru hūṃ ) |Hā hā hā hā hoḥ Bhagavan sarva Tathāgata Vajra mā me muñca |Vajri bhava mahāsamaya sattva āḥ ||













unique attributes of the respective family. Anyway, like was already said, one just recites themantra one's received the transmission for.


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55326)by Adamantine » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:58 pm

In my experience in the Nyingma lineages I am familiar with it is Suto kayo me bhawa andthen supo kayo me bhawa‐‐ but I noticed when with Sakyapas they swap the anarakto mebhawa with the supo kayo.. it is the same mantra just a slightly different order of two lines..the meaning remains the same, so no worries. Either version works, but Pemachopel iscorrect, you should really get the oral transmission for the mantra and do that one.


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55335)by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:01 am

In Nyingma that does seem to generally be the case, but not always ‐ in the Kunzang NyimaVajrasattva there is a similar swapping of lines and one or two other slight differences in themantra.


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55356)by Jangchup Donden » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:08 am

I think it matters less how precise you pronounce it, and more what your mental state iswhile you do recite it.


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55358)by padma norbu » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:32 am

Fastest version I ever heard:

http://www.emusic.com/listen/#/album/De ... 66505.html

Adamantine wrote:In my experience in the Nyingma lineages I am familiar with it is Suto kayo mebhawa and then supo kayo me bhawa‐‐ but I noticed when with Sakyapas theyswap the anarakto me bhawa with the supo kayo.. it is the same mantra just aslightly different order of two lines. .the meaning remains the same, so noworries. Either version works, but Pemachopel is correct, you should really getthe oral transmission for the mantra and do that one.

















http://www.emusic.com/listen/#/album/Dechen-Shak-Dagsay-Jewel-MP3-Download/12366505.html



http://www.emusic.com/listen/#/album/De ... 66505.html(http://www.emusic.com/listen/#/album/Dechen‐Shak‐Dagsay‐Jewel‐MP3‐Download/12366505.html)

(track 4)

follows the sanskrit, I believe... was reading various things earlier, to the effect that sanskritversion was less corrupt and also that the common Tibetan version corrected variouscorruptions, which I think implied that the sanskrit version was "corrupt," as well. Oh well,who knows. I just wanted to learn the thing because I've always had difficulty in the past andthat line swap was screwing me up.


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55359)by Sönam » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:47 am

I have been told that there would be an advantage to chant it fast.Nevertheless, the kagyu lama I received from told it in a certain way (for exemple with vajraand not benza), and when I have been chanting with a group of practitioners of the LongchenNyingthig, I still did chant with "vajra", also they were chanting with "benza" ... it could havebeen disturbing and maybe it was not "correct" so, but I was "not able" to chant it with"benza" (if I try, I just forget the rest of the prayer when I pronounce benza)

Sönam



That's preciselly how I have been told ... except the 2(3) last lines which are "VAJRI BHAVAMAHA, SAMAYA SATTVA, AH!"

padma norbu wrote:OM VAJRASATTVA SAMAYA MANUPALAYA, VAJRASATTVA DENOPA TITHA, DIDO ME BHAVA, SUTO KAYO ME BHAVA, SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA, <‐‐ missing line ANURAKTO ME BHAVA, <‐‐ or two lines are swapped (this and above)SARVA SIDDHI ME PRAYATSA, SARVA KARMA SU TSAME, TSITTAM SHRIYAM KURU HUM, HA HA HA HA HO, BHAGAVAN SARVA TATHAGATA, VAJRA MAME MUNTSA, VAJRA BHAVA MAHA SAMAYA SATTVA AH HUM PHET

http://www.emusic.com/listen/#/album/Dechen-Shak-Dagsay-Jewel-MP3-Download/12366505.html













I also noted than in Longchen Nyinting they mark a slightly stop on the "SHRIYAM" (line 9)


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55373)by Pero » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:31 pm

Haha it is the same for me. So I either just recite my own version under breathing or read theother version from the paper if there is one. Although benza is not so much of a problem,supokayo etc. is.

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Sönam wrote:

That's preciselly how I have been told ... except the 2(3) last lines which are"VAJRI BHAVA MAHA, SAMAYA SATTVA, AH!"

padma norbu wrote:OM VAJRASATTVA SAMAYA MANUPALAYA, VAJRASATTVA DENOPA TITHA, DIDO ME BHAVA, SUTO KAYO ME BHAVA, SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA, <‐‐ missing line ANURAKTO ME BHAVA, <‐‐ or two lines are swapped (this and above)SARVA SIDDHI ME PRAYATSA, SARVA KARMA SU TSAME, TSITTAM SHRIYAM KURU HUM, HA HA HA HA HO, BHAGAVAN SARVA TATHAGATA, VAJRA MAME MUNTSA, VAJRA BHAVA MAHA SAMAYA SATTVA AH HUM PHET

Sönam wrote:I have been told that there would be an advantage to chant it fast.Nevertheless, the kagyu lama I received from told it in a certain way (forexemple with vajra and not benza), and when I have been chanting with agroup of practitioners of the Longchen Nyingthig, I still did chant with "vajra",also they were chanting with "benza" ... it could have been disturbing andmaybe it was not "correct" so, but I was "not able" to chant it with "benza" (if Itry, I just forget the rest of the prayer when I pronounce benza)












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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55390)by Virgo » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:58 pm

Sanskrit is ideal. Just because Tibetans cannot pronounce all the syllables because somematching sounds are not in their native tongue, does not mean that we cannot, or shouldnot. In fact Enlgish speakers should be able to pronounce all of the sounds.

Sakya Pandita, one of the greatest Buddhist Panditas ever, was very clear about the fact thatthe siddhis come faster with correct Sanskrit pronunciation of the mantras.

Because of that, I pronounce this mantra with Sanksrit pronunciation. If you can make thesyllables but you don't you are doing everyone a disservice, because it's effects will belimited. Devotion is extremely important, but the sounds themselves set up a specialDependent Origination. The Buddhas don't tell you to mumble any old words‐‐ they give you avery specific mantra, in Sanskrit, a very special and unique language. You will still get resultsdoing a "close" version or a "Tibetanized" version, but the results won't be as powerful, or willtake longer.

Kevin


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55393)by deepbluehum » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:17 pm

Jangchup Donden wrote:I think it matters less how precise you pronounce it, and more what your mentalstate is while you do recite it.

Virgo wrote:

Sanskrit is ideal. Just because Tibetans cannot pronounce all the syllablesbecause some matching sounds are not in their native tongue, does not meanthat we cannot, or should not. In fact Enlgish speakers should be able topronounce all of the sounds.

Sakya Pandita, one of the greatest Buddhist Panditas ever, was very clear aboutthe fact that the siddhis come faster with correct Sanskrit pronunciation of themantras.

Because of that, I pronounce this mantra with Sanksrit pronunciation. If you canmake the syllables but you don't you are doing everyone a disservice, because

Jangchup Donden wrote:I think it matters less how precise you pronounce it, and more what yourmental state is while you do recite it.











I don't know if results will be limited, but I agree that one should pronounce the mantras withcorrect Sanskrit. There is a significant difference between SHYO and KAYO, and SATTVA andSATO. When I looked up the translation and saw the difference between transliterations ofthe one my Tibetan teacher gave me and corrected Sanskrit transliteration, I couldn't get itout of my head that I was pronouncing it wrong and losing the meaning. So I corrected it formyself and I felt better. You will also see in termas that common mantras are Tibetized likeSATO. Apparently the dakinis cannot spell Sanskrit. Ha ha. Just joking I know they come in asecret dakini script and the terton transliterates into Tibetan. But I always thought howcome Guru Rinpoche can't spell?


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55397)by Pero » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:41 pm

But if you haven't received the mantra in Sanskrit, there is no point in reciting it in Sanskrit.

it's effects will be limited. Devotion is extremely important, but the soundsthemselves set up a special Dependent Origination. The Buddhas don't tell youto mumble any old words‐‐ they give you a very specific mantra, in Sanskrit, avery special and unique language. You will still get results doing a "close"version or a "Tibetanized" version, but the results won't be as powerful, or willtake longer.

Kevin

Virgo wrote:Sakya Pandita, one of the greatest Buddhist Panditas ever, was very clear aboutthe fact that the siddhis come faster with correct Sanskrit pronunciation of themantras.

Because of that, I pronounce this mantra with Sanksrit pronunciation. If you canmake the syllables but you don't you are doing everyone a disservice, becauseit's effects will be limited. Devotion is extremely important, but the soundsthemselves set up a special Dependent Origination. The Buddhas don't tell youto mumble any old words‐‐ they give you a very specific mantra, in Sanskrit, avery special and unique language. You will still get results doing a "close"version or a "Tibetanized" version, but the results won't be as powerful, or willtake longer.

deepbluehum wrote:Apparently the dakinis cannot spell Sanskrit. Ha ha. Just joking I know theycome in a secret dakini script and the terton transliterates into Tibetan. But Ialways thought how come Guru Rinpoche can't spell?







This is assuming that Dakinis speak and write in Sanskrit.


Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA (#p55400)by conebeckham » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:48 pm

...also, it's not clear that people spoke the Sanskrit mantras the way many of us think theydid...for example, there are some dialects of modern Indic languages where the "V" ispronounced as a "B" and has been for some time.....I just spent time searching for mysources, to no avail, unfortunately. In any case, if you have heard the story of Sakya Panditaand the Kilaya practitioner who recited something like "Chili Chilaya," you should have someperspective.

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