EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT + + + + + OFFICE OF THE ...

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EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT

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OFFICE OF THE U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE

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PUBLIC COUNTRY PRACTICE HEARING U.S. GENERALIZED SYSTEM OF PREFERENCES (GSP)

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THURSDAY NOVEMBER 29, 2018

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The Office of the U.S. TradeRepresentative met in Conference Rooms 1 and 2,1724 F Street, N.W., Washington, D.C., at 10:00a.m., Erland Herfindahl, Chair of the GSPSubcommittee, presiding.

PRESENTERLAND HERFINDAHL, GSP Subcommittee ChairBAMA ATHREYA, USAIDRAQUEL COHEN, Department of CommerceCONOR HARRINGTON, USTROMAR KARAWA, Department of AgricultureEMMA LAURY, Department of LaborLAUREN MANDELL, USTRPETER MAIER, Department of the Treasury

SAGE MITCH, Department of the Treasury

MICHAEL O'DONOVAN, USTR

TOM PAJUSI, Department of State

ZEBA REYAZUDDIN, USTR


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ALSO PRESENT

AL-HAMZA A. AL-JAMALY, Attache, Embassy of IraqBENJAMIN BANCO-FERRI, Advisor to the Bolivian Minister of Foreign AffairsFRANCISCO BENJAMIN CARRION MENA, Ambassador of Ecuador to the United StatesLEVAN BERIDZE, Counselor, Embassy of GeorgiaR. DOAK BISHOP, King & Spalding LLPKIRILL BOYCHENKO, Cotton Campaign Coordinator, ILRFJUAN CARLOS SANCHEZ, Deputy Chief of Mission, Embassy of EcuadorKEVIN CASSIDY, Director and Special Representative to Bretton Woods and Multilateral Organizations, ILOCELESTE DRAKE, Trade and Globalization Policy Analyst, AFL-CIONINOSKA DURAN BURGOA, Director General for Childhood and Elderly Persons, Ministry of Justice and Institutional TransparencySERGIO ALBERTO FERNANDEZ RUELAS, Head of the Regional Integration Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs of BoliviaBRIAN FINNEGAN, Global Labor Rights Coordinator, AFL-CIODOUGLAS J. HEFFNER, Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP on behalf of DoleELZA JGERENAIA, Head of Labour and Employment Policy Department, Ministry of Labour, Health, and Social Affairs, Government of GeorgiaNOPPADON KUNTAMAS, Minister (Commercial), Office of Commercial Affairs, Royal Thai EmbassySTEVE LAMAR, Executive Vice President, American Apparel & Footwear AssociationRAISA LIPARTELIANI, GUTC Vice-PresidentREZA PAHLEVI CHAIRUL, Commercial Attache, Embassy of IndonesiaANDRES R. ROMERO-DELMASTRO, Supervising Counsel, Enterprise Litigation, Chevron

MARIDETH SANDLER, Sandler Trade LLC


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JOHN SIFTON, Advocacy Director for Asia, Human Rights WatchAMIR SULTANOV, Second Secretary, Embassy of UzbekistanANGKANA TECHAGOMAIN, Director of International Relations Standards Group, Department of Labour Protection and Welfare, Government of ThailandVIVATHANA THANGHONG, Deputy Permanent Secretary,

Acting Director-General, Department of

Labour Protection and Welfare

CHETWUT THRIRATTANAWONG, Advisor to the Minister

(Commercial), Office of Commercial

Affairs, Royal Thai Embassy

ANUSIT UNTIM, Legal Officer, Department of

Labour Protection and Welfare, Government

of Thailand

JAVLON VAKHABOV, Ambassador of Uzbekistan to the

United States

FAREED YASSEEN, Ambassador of Iraq to the United

States


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CONTENTS

Welcome and Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7

Uzbekistan -- Worker Rights and IntellectualProperty RightsPanel 1: Government of Uzbekistan. . . . . . . . .12 Mr. J. Vakhabov, Ambassador of Uzbekistan to the United States

Accompanied by: Mr. Amir Sultanov, Second Secretary

Panel 2: Petitioner and other stakeholders . . . .39Mr. Kirill Boychenko, Cotton Campaign Coordinator, International Labor Rights Forum (ILRF)Mr. Kevin Cassidy, Director and Special Representative to Bretton Woods and Multilateral Organizations, International Labor Organization (ILO)

Iraq -- Worker RightsPanel 1: Government of Iraq. . . . . . . . . . . .62 Mr. Fareed Yasseen, Ambassador of Iraq to the United States

Accompanied by: Mr. Al-Hamza A. Al-Jamaly

Ecuador -- Arbitral AwardsPanel 1: Government of Ecuador . . . . . . . . . .93 Mr. Francisco Benjamin Carrion Mena, Ambassador of Ecuador to the United States

Panel 2: Petitioner. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .69 Mr. Andres R. Romero-Delmastro, Supervising Counsel, Enterprise Litigation, Chevron

Accompanied by: Mr. Theodore R. Posner, Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP Mr. R. Doak Bishop, King & Spalding LLP


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Thailand Worker Rights

Panel 1: Government of Thailand . . . . . . . . 111 Mr. Vivathana Thanghong, Deputy Permanent Secretary, Acting Director, General, Department of Labour Protection and Welfare

Accompanied by: Ms. Angkana Techagomain, Director of International Relations Standards Group, Department of Labour Protection and Welfare

Mr. Anusit Untim, Legal Officer, Senior Professional Level, Department of Labour Protection and Welfare

Mr. Noppadon Kuntamas, Minister, Office of Commercial Affairs, Royal Thai Embassy

Mr. Chetwut Thrirattanawong, Advisor to the Minister, Office of Commercial Affairs, Royal Thai Embassy

Panel 2: Petitioner and U.S. Stakeholders . . . 135 Ms. Celeste Drake, Trade and Globalization Policy Analyst, AFL-CIO

Mr. John Sifton, Advocacy Director for Asia, Human Rights Watch

Panel 3: Other U.S. Stakeholders. . . . . . . . 158 Mr. Douglas J. Heffner, Drinker, Biddle & Reath, LLP on behalf of Dole

Mr. Steve Lamar, Executive Vice President

American Apparel & Footwear Assoc.


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Georgia Worker Rights

Panel 1: Government of Georgia. . . . . . . . . 172 Ms. Elza Jgerenaia, Head of Labour and Employment Policy Department, Ministry of Labour, Health and Social Affairs

Accompanied by: Mr. Lavan Beridze, Counselor, Embassy of Georgia

Panel 2: Petitioner . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 191 Mr. Brian Finnegan, Global Labor Rights Coordinator, AFL-CIO

Bolivia Child Labor

Panel 1: Government of Bolivia. . . . . . . . . 210 Mr. Benjamin Banco-Ferri, Advisor to the Bolivian Minister of Foreign Affairs

Accompanied by: Mr. Sergio Alberto Fernandez Ruelas, Head of the Regional Integration Dept., Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Bolivia

Ms. Ninoska Duran Burgoa, Director General for Childhood & Elderly Persons, Ministry of Justice & Institution Transparency

Indonesia Intellectual Property Rights

Panel 1: Government of Indonesia. . . . . . . . 226 Mr. Reza Pahlevi Chairul, Commercial Attache, Embassy of Indonesia

Panel 2: U.S. Stakeholders. . . . . . . . . . . 243 Mr. Steve Lamar, Executive Vice President American Apparel & Footwear Assoc.

Adjourn. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 258


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1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S

2 (10:16 a.m.)

3 MR. HERFINDAHL: Good morning and

4 welcome to USTR. I call this public hearing to

5 order. My name is Erland Herfindahl. I'm the

6 Deputy Assistant U.S. Trade Representative for

7 the Generalized System of Preferences and the

8 Chair of the GSP Subcommittee of the Interagency

9 Trade Policy Staff Committee.

10 This is the GSP Subcommittee here you

11 see before you. As you all know, GSP is the

12 United States's largest and oldest trade

13 preference program, providing duty-free access to

14 the U.S. market for thousands of products from

15 121 developing countries and territories.

16 However, GSP benefits are not

17 automatic. Congress has established a set of 15

18 eligibility criteria that beneficiary countries

19 must meet if they are to receive GSP benefits.

20 These criteria include, but are not limited to,

21 acting in good faith in enforcing arbitral

22 awards, taking steps to afford internationally


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1 recognized worker rights, implementing

2 commitments to eliminate the worst forms of child

3 labor, the extent to which a beneficiary country

4 has assured the United States that it will

5 provide equitable and reasonable access to its

6 markets, and providing adequate and effective

7 protection of intellectual property rights.

8 Today we will be looking at seven

9 countries on the agenda and whether they're

10 meeting the GSP eligibility criteria. Uzbekistan

11 is being reviewed for its compliance with the

12 worker rights and intellectual property

13 protection criteria.

14 Iraq is being reviewed for its

15 compliance with the worker rights criteria.

16 Ecuador is being reviewed for its compliance with

17 the arbitral awards criteria. Thailand is being

18 reviewed for its compliance with the worker

19 rights criteria.

20 Georgia is also being reviewed for its

21 compliance with the worker rights criteria.

22 Bolivia is being reviewed for its compliance with


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1 the child labor criteria. And lastly, Indonesia

2 is being reviewed for its compliance with the

3 intellectual property rights criteria.

4 Laos is also being reviewed for

5 designation into the GSP program but is not

6 represented at the hearing today.

7 We will be hearing from many witnesses

8 and various perspectives during this hearing

9 including private businesses, foreign

10 governments, and non-government organizations.

11 The issues we're looking at today are

12 highly country-specific. But for each case,

13 we're trying to answer one basic question. Is

14 the country meeting the GSP eligibility criteria

15 or not? Now let me take a moment to go over some

16 of the logistical details for this hearing.

17 The hearing was announced on the

18 Federal Register Notice published on October

19 15th, 2018. All public submissions for this

20 hearing, including the original petitions, are

21 available for review on regulations.gov under the

22 docket numbers listed in the Federal Register


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1 Notice.

2 Let me clarify that each country has

3 a separate docket number. So if you're filing

4 things, make sure to put it in the right docket.

5 We do have copies of both the agenda and the

6 Federal Register Notice out in the hall.

7 A transcript of this hearing should be

8 posted within about two weeks, and post-hearing

9 briefs are due by midnight on December 17th, via

10 the relevant docket numbers in regulations.gov.

11 We'd like to emphasize that the post-hearing

12 brief provides an opportunity for witnesses to

13 expand on their testimony or to respond to

14 testimony by others.

15 Parties appearing today may also

16 receive additional post-hearing questions from

17 the Subcommittee in about a week or so. Your

18 responses to these questions should be included

19 in the post-hearing briefs. This hearing is open

20 to the press. Do we have any members of the

21 press here today? Thank you. Could you

22 introduce yourself please?


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1 MR. BRADLEY: Brian Bradley, American

2 Shipper.

3 MR. HERFINDAHL: Okay. Thank you.

4 Each witness is limited to five minutes of oral

5 testimony, and we'd like all witnesses to abide

6 by this time limit as we have a full day of

7 testimony ahead of us and we don't want to fall

8 further behind in the schedule.

9 Following the oral testimony, the U.S.

10 government panel here will ask questions. Again,

11 if you don't feel prepared or -- at the moment,

12 to respond to something that the government asks,

13 you can just simply say that you'll respond in

14 writing in the post-hearing brief. So, with

15 that, I'd like for all of my fellow committee

16 members to introduce themselves.

17 MR. KARAWA: Good morning. My name is

18 Omar Karawa, from the Department of Agriculture.

19 Thank you.

20 MS. ATHREYA: Good morning. Bama

21 Athreya from the U.S. Agency for International

22 Development.


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1 MS. LAURY: Good morning. My name is

2 Emma Laury, and I'm from the Department of Labor.

3 MS. REYAZUDDIN: Zeba Reyazuddin,

4 USTR, Office of South and Central Asian Affairs.

5 MR. MAIER: Peter Maier, Department of

6 Treasury.

7 MS. COHEN: Good morning. Raquel

8 Cohen, from the Department of Commerce, the IP

9 office.

10 MR. PAJUSI: Tom Pajusi, the

11 Department of State, Office of Multilateral Trade

12 Affairs.

13 MR. HERFINDAHL: And I'd also like to

14 finally thank Yvonne Jamison and Lauren Gamache,

15 who put a lot of work into preparing for this

16 hearing. With that, I turn to the Ambassador

17 from Uzbekistan for your opening statement.

18 Please speak into the mic when you make your

19 remarks. Thank you.

20 MR. VAKHABOV: Thank you, Mr. Chairman

21 and distinguished members of the GSP

22 Subcommittee, ladies and gentlemen. I should


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1 note that, at the beginning, the Minister of

2 Commerce of Uzbekistan was supposed to attend

3 today's event.

4 Unfortunately, due to his commitments

5 and very busy schedule, last week I was informed

6 that he would not be able to attend today's

7 meeting. And the government of Uzbekistan

8 authorized the embassy, namely the Ambassador of

9 Uzbekistan to the United States, to represent our

10 officials today, here in this room.

11 So I welcome the opportunity to speak

12 at this Subcommittee on behalf of my government,

13 not only to brief you on what and how Uzbekistan

14 has done in order to ensure labor and

15 intellectual property rights, but to share with

16 you what my country is today.

17 So we admit that we were not good

18 enough in addressing the human rights issues

19 before. Not everything that could be done was

20 done, I should confess. Children, students,

21 teachers, doctors, and other employees of state-

22 run organizations were mobilized on a mass scale


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1 to pick the cotton. There was no independent

2 monitoring of the harvest, neither access of

3 foreign NGOs nor activists to the fields, was

4 fully provided.

5 Frankly speaking, freedom of speech

6 and the press were suppressed. And, of course,

7 there was no adequate protection of IP rights.

8 But all of this were in the past. Today, with

9 the new leadership of Uzbekistan, I represent a

10 new country, a new face of Uzbekistan, the state

11 of a progressive transformation and, to a large

12 scale, irreversible reforms, ensuring free

13 society and good governance, justice and rule of

14 law.

15 The country where the government is

16 committed to effective, people-oriented policy

17 with a paramount principle, people's interests

18 come first. So taking into account those two key

19 items that were listed in the agenda, I would

20 like to start from the labor issues.

21 Today, as you may know, in Uzbekistan,

22 child labor is no longer an issue, and forced


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1 labor is being systematically eradicated. The

2 strong message from very presidential

3 administration to every -- to every government

4 officials, to every single employer is forced

5 labor is not acceptable and will not be

6 tolerated, regardless of the title or the

7 position of the perpetrator.

8 We've provided full, unimpeded access

9 to international third-party monitors and

10 maintaining of constant dialogue with NGOs, civil

11 society activists, and media. The ILO has been

12 monitoring the cotton harvest in Uzbekistan for

13 child labor since 2013.

14 But here, I will refer to ILO's 2018

15 third-party monitoring three basic findings.

16 First, the ILO confirms that the systematic use

17 of child labor in the cotton harvest has ended

18 and is no longer a concern. Second, there was no

19 systematic recruitment of students, nurses,

20 doctors, and teachers in 2018.

21 Third, 93 percent of those involved in

22 the 2018 cotton harvest worked voluntarily. In


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1 close cooperation with ILO, Uzbekistan has

2 implemented the Decent Work Country Programme

3 that was extended to 2020 in order to improve

4 employment opportunities, working conditions, and

5 social protections.

6 We have actively engaged with the

7 World Bank through implementing five-year

8 partnership program on agricultural reform, which

9 included measures to prevent forced labor, and

10 IFC, International Financial Corporation, on the

11 project aimed at improving prevent forced labor.

12 Environmental sustainable cotton

13 production, which meets international standards

14 and minimizes the risk of using forced labor in

15 the cotton sector. This year, human rights

16 activists who were involved in a number of field

17 interviews, awareness raising activities and

18 reviews of cases. No government representatives

19 were involved in the monitoring.

20 Moreover, the representatives of ILO

21 randomly choose the sites, fields, and conduct

22 inspections on the ground. The representatives


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1 of Human Rights Watch and Cotton Campaign who

2 used to be treated as least welcomed foreigners

3 in Uzbekistan or, saying diplomatically, non --

4 persona non grata, now are regularly visiting

5 Uzbekistan.

6 And they are meeting with, actually,

7 all officials, all members of the government, and

8 even with the Deputy Prime Minister, who is

9 dealing with issues aimed at eradicating both

10 child and forced labor in Uzbekistan. Since

11 January 2018, at least two times the

12 representatives of Cotton Campaign visited

13 Uzbekistan. Just recently, the co-founder of

14 Cotton Campaign, Mr. Ben Freeman, visited

15 Uzbekistan a second time. And by the end of this

16 year, he will be traveling again to Uzbekistan.

17 And, as you may know, last year we --

18 last year, the representative of Human Rights

19 Watch, Mr. Swerdlow, also was accredited by the

20 Minister of Justice. And the Embassy of

21 Uzbekistan here in D.C. provided him with one

22 year, multiple visa. So he is free not only to


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1 travel to Uzbekistan, but also to meet everyone

2 he requires, to arrange such meetings.

3 Government officials are actively

4 engaged in and maintaining dialogue with human

5 rights activists monitoring the cotton harvests.

6 A person who you may -- heard many times as

7 Shukhrat Ganiev, Elena Urlaeva, Malohat

8 Eshonqulova, Uktam Pardaev, and many, many

9 others, to name a few, have regular consultations

10 with all relevant stakeholders.

11 Foreign media that for many years now

12 has a critical approach to everything occurring

13 in Uzbekistan from abroad, now has an opportunity

14 to monitor developments in my country being on

15 the ground. Everybody's favorite, Voice of

16 America, started operating in Uzbekistan from May

17 this year.

18 And just recently a correspondent of

19 Eurasianet, Mr. Peter Leonard, has got his

20 accreditation in the Foreign Ministry. By the

21 way, the correspondent of the Voice of America,

22 Navbahor, is right now staying in Uzbekistan.


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1 Also, she took part just recently in

2 the Asian -- international Asian human rights

3 conference that was held in Samarkand last week.

4 National media and blogger community of

5 Uzbekistan do not yield those foreign media in

6 putting on the public agenda all the issues they

7 deem necessary.

8 Second, a year ago at the United

9 Nations General Assembly in New York, President

10 Mirziyoyev committed his government to working

11 with the ILO and the World Bank to eradicate

12 child and forced labor in the harvest. This

13 political commitment was followed by a number of

14 structural changes and reforms in recruitment

15 practices.

16 The ILO monitors have observed that

17 these measures are working, and people on the

18 ground can feel a real difference. And, by the

19 way, it's not my words. I'm citing words that

20 belong to Ms. Beate Andrees, Chief of the ILO's

21 Fundamentals Principles and Rights at Work

22 Branch, comments on the outcomes of the 2018


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1 harvest.

2 So, in fact, we've increased wages and

3 introduced a differentiated pay scale so that

4 pickers are paid more per kilogram of cotton

5 towards the end of the harvest, when conditions

6 are less favorable and there is less cotton to

7 pick.

8 The wage structure was further refined

9 in 2018 to encourage mobility by rewarding those

10 who were willing to pick in less densely

11 populated districts with lower yields. The ILO

12 highlighted that the wages paid to pickers were

13 doubled, in comparison with 2017.

14 It is also found that pickers were

15 paid in full and on time. This undeniable fact

16 was also confirmed by the World Bank. Moreover,

17 the land allocated for cotton growing has been

18 significantly reduced by reducing the production

19 of raw cotton at 350,000 tons.

20 About 170,000 hectares of irrigated

21 land will be released by 2020.

22 Third, a parliamentary commission on


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1 ensuring the guaranteed labor rights is effective

2 in reaching its main goal, oversight, the

3 implementation of legislation, and international

4 treaties of the Republic of Uzbekistan to

5 prevent, deter, and eliminate the risks of child

6 and forced labor in my country in any form.

7 Fourth, we have improved public

8 awareness of prohibited labor practices. The

9 message that the forced labor is prohibited by

10 law and entails administrative and criminal

11 liability has been delivered across the country.

12 Government hotlines are effectively

13 being used to hear complaints and all voices of

14 the people concerned. The hotlines dealt with

15 more than 205 -- I'm sorry -- 2,500 cases in

16 2018, mostly related to illegal discharge and

17 disciplinary measures, payment of wages and other

18 allowances, and only 4 percent was related to the

19 forced labor.

20 More than 200 heads of different

21 organizations were brought to justice for abuses

22 of the labor rights during 2018 harvest, and more


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1 than 30 percent of those who had been disciplined

2 for such violations were local hokims, mayors,

3 and heads of law enforcement authorities. The

4 disciplinary action included dismissals,

5 demotions, and fines.

6 Fifth, we're continuing to improve our

7 national legislation in compliance with

8 international standards. We made new amendments

9 to the labor code aimed at ensuring better work

10 conditions, criminal code, and the administrative

11 liability code, that increases liability for

12 violation of labor employment and labor

13 protection laws, including the use of child labor

14 and administrative coercion to work, law on labor

15 migration to more effectively address human

16 trafficking and ensure decent employment

17 guarantees abroad.

18 We recognize that there are some

19 difficulties with implementation of our laws and

20 international obligations at the regional level.

21 But they are all reduced to a few incidents which

22 are not systematic in nature. In all such cases,


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1 the offenses continue to be prosecuted to the

2 fullest extent of the law.

3 No one, no one, irrespective of his

4 rank does go with impunity for any misconduct.

5 All public officials are responsible for abuses

6 of rights and freedoms of people. And here is a

7 picture, the reason why the Deputy Prime Minister

8 of Uzbekistan, for the first time in our history,

9 was dismissed from his post.

10 Sixth, we have focused our efforts in

11 modifying agricultural policy that make the use

12 of forced labor economically unviable and

13 unnecessary. In 2017, Uzbekistan has started

14 implementation of the pilot project, basically in

15 the regions, that is aimed at achieving

16 responsible cotton production consistent with

17 sustainability, the use of best practices, and

18 traceability in the supply chain. The goal is to

19 de-monopolize the cotton production in

20 Uzbekistan, its processing and making and use,

21 textile goods, transferring them -- I'm

22 underscoring here -- transferring them to private


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1 companies, private sector, that will use the

2 cluster approach. The way, you know well, I

3 believe.

4 Based on the results, the government

5 of Uzbekistan is committed to implementing this

6 new market mechanism all over the country.

7 Starting from 2018, about 85 percent of

8 Uzbekistan's cotton will be harvested by

9 machines, including those that are produced by

10 U.S. companies, John Deere and CNH Industrial.

11 The new Uzbek-American joint venture,

12 Silver Leaf Agri-Tech Group, are creating full

13 technological chain from growing cotton to

14 producing cotton goods through introducing more

15 GPS-based cotton harvesters that precludes any

16 use of human labor.

17 Here, I'd like to show some pictures

18 that were released just recently. Those tractors

19 that have been -- landed in Uzbekistan and

20 started operating in the Jizzakh region, that's

21 not far from our capital, Tashkent, by the way,

22 with our esteemed American partners. Moreover,


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1 here I would like to note that within the

2 framework of the visit by Secretary Ross to

3 Uzbekistan last month, the government of

4 Uzbekistan concluded an agreement with the John

5 Deere Company on supplying more than 500 tractors

6 to Uzbekistan within coming two years.

7 And according to the new presidential

8 decree, more than 10,000 units of agricultural

9 machinery, starting from cotton cultivators and

10 ending with plugging and cotton harvesters, will

11 be provided to the regions of Uzbekistan. And

12 most of them will be delivered from the United

13 States.

14 With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I

15 would like to switch to the next item of today's

16 agenda, intellectual property rights. For many

17 years, we were criticized for not ratifying the

18 Geneva Convention for the Protections of

19 Producers of Phonograms of 1971, WIPO Copyright

20 Treaty of 1966, and WIPO Performances and

21 Phonograms Treaties of 1969.

22 We are remaining faithful to our


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1 commitments that was reiterated by the President

2 of Uzbekistan, Shavkat Mirziyoyev, in the joint

3 statement with President Trump on May this year.

4 And here is a draft law on accession to all of

5 these treaties. I would like to show you the

6 draft that I just recently received. The draft

7 that was passed over to the national assembly of

8 Uzbekistan for further ratification.

9 And I would also like to draw your

10 attention to the signature, the signature of the

11 Prime Minister of Uzbekistan, that means that the

12 draft was approved by the cabinet ministry, by

13 the government of Uzbekistan.

14 And now it is being considered by

15 members of Uzbek parliament. And we expect that,

16 by the end of this year, this law will be passed.

17 Moreover, we are improving institutional capacity

18 and creating legal perquisites for their

19 effective implementation.

20 First, the interagency task group was

21 created to take appropriate measures to detect,

22 prevent, and suppress the infringements of rights


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1 of IP right holders, monitor for and take actions

2 against infringers, including in the internet,

3 raise legal awareness, and interact with local

4 authorities and interlopers to ensure IP holders'

5 rights.

6 Second, inspection of control in the

7 field of communications and IT was established

8 this year to monitor and detect the infringements

9 of copyrights in internet. Two special

10 departments under the inspection were commenced

11 and dedicated to combat piracy. One is to the

12 phonogram audiovisual works, and the other is for

13 software.

14 Third, Uzbekistan authors society is

15 going to be established very soon with the

16 primary goal to ensure protection of copyright

17 and allied rights of authors and other IP right

18 holders. It will be -- it is a non-governmental,

19 not-for-profit organization established by the

20 authors and other right holders for the

21 management of their rights on a collective basis.

22 Fourth, Department of Combating


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1 Economic Crimes under the General Prosecutor's

2 Office is vested with the new authority to combat

3 with the unauthorized use of intellectual

4 property objects and identify violations of IP

5 rights and eliminate the causes and conditions

6 which foster them.

7 Fifth, we are establishing a

8 specialized intellectual property court which

9 jurisdiction will be focused on judicial review

10 of the government's legal acts and decisions in

11 the field of IP rights, handling of certain types

12 of IP disputes, patent disputes, validity of IP

13 rights, et cetera, and enforcement of IP rights

14 against piracy and counterfeiting activities.

15 And the last point, we are manning the criminal

16 and administrative liability code aimed at

17 strengthening accountability for intellectual

18 property infringers.

19 Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of

20 GSP Subcommittee, so as you can see so far, a

21 great deal has been done and much more will be

22 done, I can assure you. We are gradually --


29

1 follow our path of reforms that are being

2 implemented, not for the sake of reforms, and

3 much less, not to please someone, even here, but

4 to serve, primarily, the interests of our

5 ordinary people.

6 So, however, given all the progress as

7 it has been achieved so far, that goes in line

8 with GSP eligibility requirements, I believe.

9 And our unwavering commitment, I think it is

10 high. It is the right time to dismiss all

11 petitions that had lost much of its relevance

12 today.

13 So now I'm ready to answer your

14 questions and to provide more detailed

15 information with regard to other engagements, in

16 terms of solving all those issues raising -- we

17 are raising today. Thank you so much.

18 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you very much,

19 Mr. Ambassador, for your comprehensive statement

20 on both worker rights and intellectual property

21 rights. So I think we'll start with a few

22 questions on intellectual property rights before


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1 moving on to some questions on worker rights.

2 MS. COHEN: Great. Thank you. I'm

3 going to ask a multi-part question. And I

4 believe a lot of these questions you addressed in

5 your introduction. But I'm going to go ahead and

6 ask these questions as well.

7 In your submission, you attached a

8 draft law acceding to the Geneva Phonograms

9 Convention, the WIPO Copyright Treaty, and the

10 WIPO Performances and Phonograms Treaty. Now

11 that this draft law has been submitted to the

12 parliament, what additional steps must the draft

13 go through before becoming law, and how long do

14 you expect these steps will take?

15 The submission notes that the national

16 laws on copyright will need to be amended to

17 comply with the requirements of these treaties.

18 Do you have an update on that process? And

19 lastly, do you have an implementation time-line

20 once the law is approved? Thank you.

21 MR. VAKHABOV: Thank you very much for

22 the question. So as I pointed out, the law


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1 itself is supposed to be passed by the end of

2 this year. And these updates come from the Uzbek

3 parliament. And in December, both chambers of

4 the Uzbek national assembly will come together.

5 And this law is expected to be

6 approved by both chambers simultaneously. And

7 later, the bill itself will be passed over to the

8 president's administration for signing. So the

9 next step -- we expect that the special roadmap

10 on implementing all of those three international

11 conventions will be drafted and later also

12 approved by the parliament itself.

13 And this roadmap will be further

14 handed over to the government and all relevant

15 agencies of Uzbekistan for its proper

16 implementation. Actually, it will take about one

17 or two months, I mean, for the development of

18 that roadmap.

19 What concerns time-frame works for all

20 items that will be envisaged by that roadmap, I

21 think the time-frame work itself will be defined

22 by the relevant agencies in further interagency


32

1 plans of actions.

2 So -- and I believe there will be

3 precisely a lot of changes to the national

4 legislation, even those that I've pointed out in

5 my speech before. It could be further provided

6 after comprehensive analysis of the entire IPR

7 legislation. However, I can tell you for sure

8 that national treatment will be implemented and

9 the foreign right holders will be given

10 protection not less than the national ones.

11 A minimum fixed amount of compensation

12 for infringing intellectual property right will

13 be indicated. So these first steps that are

14 supposed to be taken very soon. And, once again,

15 on behalf of the government of Uzbekistan, I can

16 reassure the government of the United States that

17 the law itself will be passed absolutely,

18 definitely.

19 There is no doubt. But the next step

20 is related to implementing this law into practice

21 and -- absolutely. And I expect that we'll be

22 facing some challenges even, especially those


33

1 that I've mentioned about with regard to the

2 implementation of our national laws at the

3 regional level.

4 So meanwhile, the government of

5 Uzbekistan is committed to implementing both the

6 law and the roadmap that is supposed to be issued

7 very soon after the approval of that law by the

8 president. Thank you.

9 MS. COHEN: Mr. Ambassador, if I could

10 just ask a follow-up question on this? Given

11 that the parliament has -- the committee, the

12 cabinet committee, has already approved the draft

13 law, isn't the IP agency and other relevant --

14 aren't the IP agency and the other relevant

15 government agencies already working on a roadmap

16 for the implementation, or are they waiting for

17 the law to be passed to work on that special

18 roadmap?

19 MR. VAKHABOV: I think -- I'm sure

20 that those relevant agencies started drafting the

21 roadmap right after the visit of the president of

22 Uzbekistan to the United States and right after


34

1 he took commitments that were laid out in the

2 joint statement that was issued the next day

3 after the talks at the White House in May.

4 But they are pending. They are

5 waiting for the approval of the law. And I

6 believe right the next day, the roadmap itself

7 will be passed to the government for the

8 approval.

9 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you. I think,

10 in the interest of time, we do have some

11 additional questions on intellectual property

12 rights, but we'll provide them to you in writing

13 for a response in the post-hearing brief. I'd

14 like now to have a few questions on the labor

15 side.

16 MS. LAURY: Good morning and thank you

17 for your testimony. I have a question with

18 respect to the punishments that have been issued

19 against people in Uzbekistan.

20 In your testimony this morning, you

21 mentioned that the government has disciplined

22 officials that have been liable for forced labor,


35

1 including 30 dismissals for, quote, enforced

2 labor and violation of labor legislation. Do

3 these dismissals include officials that have been

4 unable to meet the required quota for harvested

5 cotton in their regions?

6 MR. VAKHABOV: As I mentioned, more

7 than 200 heads of different organizations, mainly

8 state-owned organizations, were brought into

9 justice. And here, I'd also like to note that

10 dozens, at least 12, as far as I know, 12

11 governors were fired -- were fired by the

12 leadership of the government of Uzbekistan,

13 again, for those abuses related to the use of

14 forced labor during the 2018 harvest. And most

15 of them are mayors of the Uzbek districts and

16 even the governors of the Uzbek provinces as

17 well.

18 MS. LAURY: But have there been any

19 dismissals or punishments against local

20 authorities who have not met cotton quotas?

21 MR. VAKHABOV: Yes. As I pointed out,

22 the disciplinary action itself includes three key


36

1 punishments, dismissals, demotions, and fines.

2 And those people also were fined as well.

3 MS. REYAZUDDIN: With regards to

4 wages, you stated that wages have increased

5 dramatically in the past two years, while the

6 price the government pays for cotton has also

7 reportedly increased.

8 It has not increased nearly enough to

9 cover the increased labor costs. How are farmers

10 paying the increased wages if they're not making

11 significantly more for the cotton?

12 MR. VAKHABOV: So, as you may know,

13 the government of Uzbekistan is very supportive

14 of the agricultural sector itself. And we

15 provide our farmers with loans. We -- moreover,

16 the government of Uzbekistan helps them to get

17 even tractors, harvesting machines, et cetera.

18 And, in this regard, I should say that

19 those farmers who are engaged in the cotton-

20 picking industry are actually self-sufficient.

21 And the government of Uzbekistan proceeds from

22 the understanding that prior to the distribution


37

1 of those lands with cotton, we are mainly

2 focusing on those farmers who are able to -- not

3 only to pick the cotton on time, but also to

4 cover all payments with regard to even wages as

5 provide -- wages to those who are engaged in

6 cotton-picking processes in Uzbekistan.

7 MS. ATHREYA: Thank you, Mr.

8 Ambassador. And following on that previous

9 question, we do understand that there are

10 reports, continued reports, from farmers that it

11 is not profitable to sell to the state.

12 We also understand that, for many

13 years, the land allocated to cotton has been

14 diminishing in favor of other crops, primarily

15 wheat. But cotton is still the single largest

16 crop by far.

17 Apart from the cotton cluster pilot

18 program that you described, what other steps are

19 being taken to give farmers more freedom to make

20 their own decisions about what to plant, how to

21 farm, and to whom to sell?

22 MR. VAKHABOV: So, at this moment, I


38

1 can inform you that -- it was mentioned above --

2 the government of Uzbekistan is committed to

3 transfer all its obligations with regard to

4 cotton industry to private sector.

5 So more than -- just a couple months

6 ago, it was in August -- the government issued a

7 special decree. That decree that distributes all

8 fields across the republic, all fields where the

9 cotton itself is being cultivated among more than

10 40 private business entities.

11 And these business entities, by the

12 way, voluntarily agreed with the government to

13 possess these fields and to later -- even they

14 assured the government to introduce the best

15 practice to those fields.

16 So our chief goal is, again, to de-

17 monopolize the cotton industry in Uzbekistan to

18 permit the private sector to manage these fields

19 by themselves. And by these means, we are going

20 to release the government, to release the

21 governors of provinces from all engagements

22 related to cotton industry, even with those


39

1 related to the use of forced labor in the future.

2 So these private entities will bear

3 full responsibility for all further engagements

4 with regard to both cotton-picking process and

5 even eliminating, eradicating, the use of forced

6 labor on the ground. And, if you don't mind,

7 additionally, we will provide our answers to the

8 questions you've raised today. Thank you.

9 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you. Again, we

10 will have some additional questions in writing

11 that we'll provide to you on the labor side as

12 well. But I'd really like to thank you, Mr.

13 Ambassador, for your participation here and your

14 very comprehensive explanations on both worker

15 rights and intellectual property rights.

16 Now I'd like to ask for our second

17 panel to come forward. So we'll begin with a

18 five-minute statement from Mr. Boychenko.

19 MR. BOYCHENKO: Thank you.

20 Distinguished members of the GSP Subcommittee,

21 thank you for convening this country practice

22 hearing today and the invitation to present. The


40

1 International Labor Rights Forum, as part of the

2 Cotton Campaign Coalition, in 2007 filed a GSP

3 complaint challenging state-sponsored forced

4 labor and child labor in Uzbekistan's cotton

5 sector.

6 We have been encouraged by high level

7 commitment made by the Uzbek president, Shavkat

8 Mirziyoyev. There is a clear commitment at the

9 very top and a clear commitment from Uzbekistan

10 diplomats here in Washington, D.C., especially

11 Ambassador Javlon Vakhabov.

12 We believe there is a potential to be

13 a historic reform in Uzbekistan. But there is,

14 nonetheless, continuing challenges because we are

15 dealing with dismantling a mode of production

16 that has been in place for decades and understand

17 that it cannot be done overnight.

18 Preliminary findings from independent

19 civil society monitors show that since September

20 10, 2018, employees from almost all state-owned

21 organizations and enterprises across Uzbekistan

22 have been mobilized to pick cotton.


41

1 There is progress on the ground, but

2 not yet a success. Unfortunately, systematic

3 state-orchestrated forced labor continues on a

4 massive scale in the Uzbek cotton sector. The

5 International Labor Organization third-party

6 monitoring mission in Uzbekistan recently

7 reported their preliminary harvest findings,

8 estimating that 93 percent of cotton pickers were

9 voluntary.

10 Even if this statistic holds true,

11 there are still nearly 200,000 citizens being

12 forced to pick cotton against their will. And

13 while forced labor occurs in many countries

14 around the world, Uzbekistan is a unique case, as

15 it's one of the only countries where a government

16 supports and perpetuates a system that requires

17 hundreds of thousands of people to leave their

18 job of choice to pick cotton against their will.

19 The Cotton Campaign is not yet in a

20 position to render a specific judgment on this

21 current harvest, as it is still ongoing. For

22 example, in some districts of Jizzakh, Namangan,


42

1 and Tashkent regions, the harvest is in progress

2 at this very moment as we speak and is scheduled

3 until the first days of December.

4 We just confirmed that also in

5 Akaltynsky district of Sirdaryo region, 10,000

6 soldiers of Uzbekistan army are mobilized to pick

7 cotton until December 5th, 2018. According to

8 witnesses, it is already cold, with very little

9 cotton left.

10 However, instead of the military

11 service and required by the law training, the

12 soldiers are ordered to pick the remaining

13 cotton. Even though the harvest is still

14 ongoing, we can make preliminary observations

15 based on the monitoring work of the Uzbek-German

16 Forum for Human Rights, independent civil society

17 activists, local and international media

18 reporting from Uzbekistan.

19 The centrally organized quota system

20 and system of incentives and disincentives to

21 officials continues to drive forced labor.

22 Officials responsible for fulfilling the quota


43

1 are now under tremendous pressure.

2 On one hand, the government of

3 Uzbekistan publicly stating forced labor is

4 illegal. On the other hand, forced labor is the

5 only means they have for fulfilling the quota.

6 Failure to do so can result in dismissals from

7 their posts or other punishments.

8 Government officials being punished

9 and, at times, fired for poorly organizing the

10 harvest or, in other words, for not forcibly

11 organizing enough individuals to pick cotton.

12 It's a very clear message that is sent at the

13 highest level and which was reported widely in

14 the media.

15 UGF obtained documents from major

16 state-owned enterprises which confirm the state-

17 organized systemic use of forced labor.

18 According to those documents, approximately 30

19 percent of employees of state-owned enterprises

20 were required to provide employees to be assigned

21 to picking brigades, often meaning days away from

22 their families.


44

1 The Uzbek Metallurgical Plant, for

2 example, ordered the mobilization of workers in a

3 document obtained by UGF, dated September 19,

4 2018. According to this document, 3,200 workers

5 were sent to pick cotton, which is 36 percent of

6 the plant's workforce.

7 Employees are usually forced to sign

8 statements in which they confirm that they're

9 participating as voluntary workers in the

10 harvest. Let me quote a citizen describing

11 conditions while picking cotton.

12 For three days now, we have been

13 standing in the mud, in the rain, and not a

14 single farmer has met us. We have not eaten for

15 three days. Even the toilets were locked. They

16 asked for a thousand soms to brew tea. We rented

17 an accommodation for 5,000 soms per day. Our

18 money has run out. The farmer says, let your

19 hokim or local official supply you with food.

20 Let the Minister of Internal Affairs take care of

21 this.

22 This was reported by BBC. In


45

1 addition, independent monitors have evidence of

2 widespread extortion of employees of state-owned

3 organizations and private business people, such

4 as market traders, to pay for replacement of

5 cotton pickers.

6 In some cases, law enforcement

7 agencies, such as security guards or

8 international consulates and embassies have been

9 recruited to pick cotton. It would be impossible

10 for this to happen without orders or approval

11 from someone in a position of high authority. We

12 have evidence that school teachers and medical

13 staff, despite all public commitments, continue

14 to be mobilized in the cotton fields. Although,

15 in contrast with previous years, this did not

16 begin until October 2018, this year.

17 Yes, the Uzbek government did make an

18 effort to use less forced labor in this cotton

19 harvest. But due to unchanged structure of the

20 cotton industry, they were not able to rely on

21 voluntary workers for the entirety of the

22 harvest. There is still much needed change to


46

1 occur in Uzbekistan.

2 And Uzbekistan cannot be ruled as a

3 success at this point. Again, among all the

4 progress, which we're glad to acknowledge, it is

5 important to recognize the causes of forced

6 labor, that truly effective measures can be

7 implemented to eradicate it.

8 We, therefore, urge the government of

9 Uzbekistan to address the remaining structural

10 root causes that drive forced labor. These are

11 the quota system of cotton production set by the

12 state, the control of the state over all aspects

13 of cotton production, wages that are not high

14 enough to attract sufficient voluntary workers

15 towards the end of the harvest when there is less

16 cotton to pick and working conditions in the

17 fields are harsh, lack of normal labor relations

18 and decent work protections, lack of freedom of

19 association and independent trade unions, built-

20 in incentives that make forced labor inevitable.

21 For example, hokims and other

22 officials are being disciplined for failing to


47

1 meet quotas, but less so for using forced labor.

2 If there is no deterrent to using forced labor,

3 there is no chance of eradicating it.

4 Distinguished committee members, while

5 we should commend the high level commitment and

6 the series of decrees and steps that have been

7 set in motion, we must not lose sight of the fact

8 that the government's forced labor system of

9 cotton production remains in place.

10 This is the reason we believe this

11 committee should keep this review open until we

12 can verify that the government of Uzbekistan has

13 truly ended state-sponsored forced labor. Thank

14 you for your time, and I look forward to any

15 questions you may have.

16 MR. CASSIDY: Chairperson, members of

17 the Subcommittee, thank you very much for this

18 opportunity to present the ILO's findings. Since

19 the ILO started monitoring child and forced labor

20 in the cotton production in Uzbekistan in 2015,

21 the ILO has seen a growing political commitment

22 and tangible action as part of the Uzbek


48

1 government's efforts to fully eliminate child and

2 forced labor.

3 In the ILO's report on 2017 on the

4 cotton harvest in Uzbekistan, it was found that

5 there is no systemic use of child labor in the

6 cotton harvest in Uzbekistan and significant

7 measures to end forced labor are being

8 implemented.

9 That report recommended greater

10 political commitment, engagement of human rights

11 activists in the monitoring process, as well as

12 other improvements to our monitoring approach.

13 The new 2018 report, which will be

14 publicly released in early 2019 and was recently

15 presented in Tashkent to many of the same

16 organizations in this room today, has found

17 significant reductions in forced labor, the

18 participation of human rights activists in

19 monitoring, no systemic use of child labor, the

20 disciplining of hokims for violations largely

21 related to forced labor, increased wages, and

22 improved working conditions.


49

1 The ILO's monitoring and analysis

2 shows demonstrably year-on-year improvement in

3 the situation of child and forced labor in cotton

4 harvesting in Uzbekistan. However, more needs to

5 be done to address forced labor and child labor,

6 as well as ensuring that changes that are set in

7 motion by the capital are followed through at the

8 district level.

9 In terms of the methodology, the ILO

10 has a comprehensive and well-documented

11 monitoring methodology which represents the

12 principles of independence, confidentiality, and

13 the need to protect vulnerable persons and

14 groups. The ILO's methodology has achieved

15 approval from an international independent review

16 board, and steps have been taken to ensure that

17 there are fully informed and voluntary

18 participation by those interviewed for either

19 monitoring or the surveys.

20 In terms of the ILO's approach, all

21 field interviews are unaccompanied, unannounced,

22 and confidential. The ILO monitoring teams


50

1 consist of an international ILO expert and a

2 local Uzbek human rights activist.

3 All human rights activists were free

4 to conduct their own independent monitoring

5 without restrictions by the ILO or the

6 government. There are no government

7 representatives involved in the monitoring.

8 To ensure the highest possible level

9 of integrity, GPS coordinates are generated

10 randomly and only communicated to the

11 international ILO expert right before departure

12 to the next destination.

13 The feedback mechanism operated by the

14 Ministry of Employment and Labor received 1,949

15 complaints that were investigated by 200 labor

16 inspectors across the country. The Federation of

17 Trade Unions received and handled, additionally,

18 557 cases that were handled by 28 lawyers in the

19 FTUU's legal clinic.

20 The ILO was provided with full access

21 to the feedback mechanism to monitor the

22 effectiveness of the system and to track


51

1 individual cases. All cases were dealt with

2 expeditiously, and the ministry published the

3 tickets on its website and organized press

4 conferences to discuss these findings.

5 During the 2018 harvest, a total of

6 169 hokims, officials, and managers were

7 disciplined for violations related to forced

8 labor. Punishments included dismissals,

9 demotions, fines. Due to increased wages, more

10 men picked cotton in 2018, compared to previous

11 years. For the same reason, there were more

12 pickers from urban areas and more who picked

13 cotton for the first time.

14 Increased wages also stimulated

15 internal migration. The overwhelming majority,

16 93 percent of cotton pickers, were voluntary,

17 which represents a 46 percent improvement over

18 2017.

19 A minority of pickers, 7 percent,

20 approximately 180,000 people, experienced

21 involuntary recruitment practices such as

22 threats, direct or perceived, requests for fees,


52

1 or the providing of replacement pickers.

2 Systematic recruitment of students, teachers,

3 doctors, and nurses came to an end in 2018.

4 Field monitoring shows that drinking

5 water was provided in 87 percent of the fields.

6 Lunch was provided in 82 percent of the fields,

7 while toilet facilities were only available in

8 approximately 46 percent of the cotton fields.

9 ILO observations in the 2018 harvest,

10 which will be made available in the beginning of

11 2019, are as follows. Consistent, clear,

12 political commitment from the government, freedom

13 of association as a priority for new employers'

14 associations, transparency about government

15 meetings and decisions. Human Rights Watch has

16 also been involved in these meetings. No more

17 systemic recruitment of teachers, nurses, and

18 doctors.

19 Focus on financial incentives as a

20 driver for voluntary recruitment. Significant

21 wage increases for cotton pickers this years.

22 Wages differentiated, of course, across the


53

1 passes and regions to attract pickers, and

2 consistent and regular payments made to the

3 pickers.

4 The ILO will focus, moving forward, on

5 forced recruitment of adults and it is a

6 complicated issue. And this is why the ILO is

7 concentrating not only at the central high

8 political level, but also at the provincial level

9 throughout the country.

10 In conclusion, with the permission of

11 the Chair, I'd like to conclude with two

12 anecdotal points. At the roundtable in Tashkent

13 recently, the U.S. charge d'affaires publicly

14 said that the results of the informal monitoring

15 that the embassy had undertaken during this

16 harvest were in line with the ILO's findings.

17 And lastly, the recently retired U.S.

18 Ambassador to Uzbekistan, Pamela Spratlen, in a

19 note to the ILO and other colleagues upon her

20 departure expressed her, quote, profound

21 appreciation for all the ILO has done to bring

22 Uzbekistan to an entirely new stage of


54

1 understanding and action in the cotton harvest

2 and labor practices generally.

3 Dear Chair, in closing and on behalf

4 of the ILO, we remain committed to the work in

5 Uzbekistan with the government of Uzbekistan, the

6 workers and employers, and the many human rights

7 defenders who are doing important work, shining a

8 light on the violations of child and forced labor

9 wherever it might appear. This work is not

10 finished, but improvements are undeniable. Thank

11 you for your time and attention.

12 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you very much

13 to both of you for your statements today. So as

14 with the previous panel, we'll be asking a number

15 of questions following the hearing for written

16 response in the post-hearing brief. So we will

17 have several questions we'd like to ask orally

18 now.

19 MS. LAURY: Good morning. Thank you

20 both. I have a question for Mr. Cassidy. Even

21 though the 2017 data of the -- the data of the

22 2017 cotton harvest showed significant


55

1 improvement, the ILO still recorded a very

2 significant number of forced labor cases. From

3 the perspective of the ILO, what are the main

4 constraints in Uzbekistan to achieving the goal

5 of no forced labor or child labor?

6 MR. CASSIDY: Thank you very much.

7 I'll answer as best I can. The observations in

8 the 2017 report, as you mentioned, is over

9 300,000. The observations for the 2018 report

10 show a 46 percent decrease to 180,000.

11 The obstacles, I believe, are the

12 quota system and also having the districts and

13 the local hokims being able to implement the

14 decisions that are made at the capital level. So

15 there is an issue of communication and an issue

16 of awareness raising. More to that, I can reply

17 subsequently.

18 MR. KARAWA: Good morning. This

19 question is for Mr. Boychenko. I hope I

20 pronounced it correctly. Your submission notes

21 that the forced labor problem in Uzbekistan will

22 not be solved until property rights and


56

1 agricultural practices are reformed.

2 What kind of reforms do you recommend?

3 What are the practical restraints facing the

4 Uzbekistan government as it considers land use

5 and agricultural reforms? Are there short-term

6 solutions that Uzbekistan should consider in

7 altering the course? Thank you.

8 MR. BOYCHENKO: Thank you very much

9 for this question. At the moment, farmers in

10 Uzbekistan are not able to choose what to grow.

11 They are directed by the state, and they don't

12 own their land.

13 Their land can be taken away from them

14 if they don't deliver on quota. We've seen many

15 cases like that. In this year, 2018, we know of

16 three suicides. Three farmers committed suicide

17 because they were unable to meet quota.

18 We have this information and following

19 evidence that we're happy to provide in the post-

20 briefing document. Short-term solutions could be

21 well -- more market-driven solutions. Give more

22 rights to farmers. Let them choose what to grow.


57

1 Let them decide, based on their land,

2 based on how much water they have, based on the

3 climate. Right now, this is not taken into

4 consideration. The government has overall

5 monopoly over the sector.

6 It tells the farmer what to grow, how

7 much, and where. And with more market-driven,

8 with more rights to farmers, we believe the

9 situation can be improved.

10 MR. PAJUSI: I have a question for Mr.

11 Boychenko. In 2007, when the ILRF first

12 submitted its petition, few journalists wrote

13 about the problems of forced and child labor in

14 Uzbekistan, except organizations based outside of

15 the country like ILRF and the Uzbek-German Forum.

16 In April of 2014, the Cotton Campaign

17 noted that since 2011, authorities have

18 prosecuted and imprisoned 80 activists and

19 arrested and detained 300 others for their work.

20 Today, however, the Uzbek media seems to be full

21 of stories about the cotton harvest, including

22 reports of forced labor.


58

1 Relatedly, the ILO report said it had

2 trained 250 journalists to write about labor

3 rights and the cotton harvest, with the blessing

4 of the government.

5 Do you agree that there has been an

6 increase in public reporting on the cotton

7 harvest in the Uzbek media and that activists are

8 able to monitor and report on the harvest without

9 undue restrictions? And what impact do you

10 expect from that reporting on broader Uzbek

11 society?

12 MR. BOYCHENKO: I agree that there is

13 more awareness. And we believe that it is very

14 helpful and important that media is able to

15 report on what's happening in the harvest and in

16 the country. We think it's absolutely important

17 and helpful that civil society activists are able

18 to monitor the harvest, now more so than ever

19 before.

20 But I would like to point to a few

21 cases. One case is the case of journalist --

22 from Xorazm, who was detained on October 25th,


59

1 2018 after he tape recorded a meeting where a

2 hokim, a local official, was assigning quotas to

3 teachers and doctors to pick cotton.

4 So once he recorded that meeting and

5 went public with it, he was immediately detained.

6 Then he was released. Then he was detained again

7 in seven days on fabricated charges. His lawyer

8 declined to work with him because he's scared.

9 So, there are still cases of

10 intimidation, harassment, some of them

11 experienced by Uzbek-German Forum for Human

12 Rights independent monitors. This is much to a

13 lesser extent what we're seeing right now. But

14 there are still cases, unfortunately.

15 So, we hope that in the coming harvest

16 of 2019 -- this one is still ongoing of 2018 --

17 but we hope next harvest, all monitors are able

18 to monitor unfettered reports, including

19 journalists and including Uzbek-German Forum for

20 Human Rights activists. Thank you.

21 MS. ATHREYA: Thank you so much. We

22 have an additional question for ILRF. What is


60

1 your view on what the government of Uzbekistan

2 might do to continue to build public trust in the

3 feedback mechanism?

4 MR. BOYCHENKO: Thank you so much.

5 It's a very important question for us. Today,

6 the Ambassador of Uzbekistan, Javlon Vakhabov,

7 who has the highest commitment to this issue, we

8 have no doubt, he had mentioned the case of

9 abused and humiliated farmers who were standing

10 in the ditch on the photo that he showed earlier

11 today.

12 Then, he mentioned that the Deputy

13 Prime Minister was dismissed. Well,

14 unfortunately, in two weeks, he was given another

15 position of power in one of the districts of

16 Uzbekistan. And he is overseeing agriculture.

17 We believe that for the feedback

18 mechanism to work, those dismissals should

19 actually work, but not for those officials to be

20 reinstated somewhere else in the position of

21 power, overseeing the agricultural sector. We

22 have reports and numerous witness accounts that


61

1 people don't trust feedback mechanisms, that they

2 don't report because they're still scared of

3 retaliation.

4 So, I believe that there is an

5 opportunity, a great opportunity, to improve the

6 feedback mechanism and establish a climate when

7 citizens are -- they don't fear to report on

8 violations that happen during harvest.

9 MR. HERFINDAHL: Well, thank you very

10 much to both of you for your participation today.

11 Again, you'll be receiving some additional

12 written questions from us that we would

13 appreciate if you could respond to in the post-

14 hearing briefing.

15 So now, moving forward in the agenda,

16 I'd like to turn to Iraq. So, if the Iraqi

17 delegation could please come forward at this

18 time? Please go ahead, Mr. Ambassador.

19 MR. YASSEEN: Good morning. Thank you

20 for this opportunity to testify before the Office

21 of the U.S. Trade Representative regarding the

22 alleged validity of Iraq under the generalize


62

1 system of preferences. My name is Fareed

2 Yasseen.

3 I'm the Iraqi Ambassador to

4 Washington, D.C. And I'm here to affirm the

5 Republic of Iraq's commitment to internationally

6 recognized workers' rights. We were pleased to

7 see that, in July of this year, the AFL-CIO has

8 withdrawn its October 2017 petition against Iraq.

9 This withdrawal was formally communicated to the

10 Office of the Trade Representative through a

11 well-documented letter describing the significant

12 improvements that Iraq has made in ensuring

13 workers' rights.

14 As outlined in our pre-hearing brief,

15 Iraq has indeed ratified International Labor

16 Organization Convention Number 87 on the freedom

17 of association and protection of the right to

18 organize of 1948. And that was in June 2018,

19 bringing Iraq into the group of countries that

20 have ratified all eight ILO conventions.

21 Convention number 87 will enter into

22 force, as you know, one year after its


63

1 ratification. The instruments of ratification

2 were deposited by Iraq's then Minister of Labor

3 and Social Affairs at a ceremony on the sidelines

4 of the 107th International Labor Conference in

5 Geneva, a conference that Iraq attends regularly.

6 At present, Iraq has ratified 68

7 conventions of the ILO, including three out of

8 the ILO's Governance Conventions, the first of

9 which happened in 1938. Our government also

10 issued Executive Order Number 18 of 2018 to form

11 an inclusive committee tasked with preparing a

12 new trade union law, thereby abolishing its

13 predecessor, Trade Union Law Number 52 of 1987, a

14 Saddam-era relic that restricted freedom of

15 association and the operation of free unions.

16 In July of 2018, this committee of

17 government officials and representatives from all

18 five major trade unions, federations, in

19 consultation with ILO technical advisors,

20 completed a draft law that is in line with core

21 ILO conventions.

22 I do expect that Iraq's newly-elected


64

1 council of representatives will enact this law

2 during this parliamentary session. Now that Dr.

3 Bassem al-Rubaye, Iraq's newly-confirmed Minister

4 of Labor and Social Affairs will see to it that

5 it is well-implemented, given that he himself had

6 had a role in its adoption earlier.

7 The AFL-CIO correctly recognized that

8 our government, specifically, the Ministry of

9 Labor and Social Affairs, has been working with

10 independent unions, with other social partners,

11 as well as with the ILO.

12 Note that Iraq joined the ILO and to

13 the League of Nations in 1932. I think it was

14 the first Arab country to do so. Iraq is also a

15 founding member of the United Nations. Enacting

16 laws and conventions is necessary, but it is not

17 sufficient.

18 These laws and conventions need to be

19 implemented. Now, that requires expertise with

20 regard to the implementation of labor laws. Iraq

21 has hired additional labor inspectors with legal

22 expertise to improve the work and capacity of


65

1 labor inspection committees.

2 In addition to the legal education and

3 training, labor inspectors must follow intensive

4 courses, educating them on the provisions of the

5 labor and pension and social security laws.

6 The labor inspectors' work is

7 supported by an extensive electronic inspection

8 system and a geographical information division,

9 rendering fraud somewhat more difficult. These

10 advances are a part of a continuing trend in

11 Iraq.

12 In 2015, the government abdicated the

13 1987 Labor Code and enacted a new labor law which

14 complies with ILO's core labor standards and

15 dramatically expands the rights of workers. The

16 new labor law was drafted by the Governor of Iraq

17 in coordination with experts from ILO and engaged

18 government officials, experts, and Iraqi workers,

19 and employers. Not only does the new labor law

20 adhere to international and foreign labor laws,

21 it also helps in transforming Iraq's economy from

22 a socialist economy to a semi-open economy.


66

1 It allows for an increase in the

2 number of foreign workers in Iraq and protects

3 the rights of international laborers. I should

4 add that there are quite a few Americans amongst

5 them, ranging from security contractors, to

6 specialized experts to basketball players.

7 The new labor law also preserves and

8 protects the rights of both workers and employers

9 while simultaneously bolstering the Iraqi

10 economy. The law regulates the relationship

11 between workers and employers and facilitates the

12 establishment of trade unions and professional

13 associations in accordance with international and

14 Arab labor conventions to which Iraq is a party.

15 The law upholds the rights of workers

16 to create and join unions and seeks to afford

17 them generous benefits and assurances. Further,

18 it also aims to inform people's understanding of

19 international labor standards and fundamental

20 rights and freedoms. In conclusion, Iraq has

21 come indeed a long way to ensure both the well-

22 being and constitutional rights of workers and it


67

1 intends to continue on this path.

2 The new government will prioritize

3 economic and administrative reform. Further

4 refinements ensure the implementation and further

5 refinements of the 2015 new labor law and the

6 forthcoming new trade union law will be crucial

7 to these efforts.

8 Thank you for your consideration of

9 Iraq's continued eligibility under the

10 generalized system of preferences. And I'm sure

11 that you have some further questions. If I don't

12 have the answer to them right now, I'm sure that

13 -- I'll make sure that I will provide them to you

14 in written form. Thank you.


16 Mr. Ambassador, for your testimony today. I

17 think, if it's okay with you, in the interest of

18 time of we could just provide all of our

19 questions in written format for post-hearing

20 response?

21 MR. YASSEEN: I'd be grateful.

22 MR. HERFINDAHL: Great. Thank you


68

1 very much.

2 MR. YASSEEN: My pleasure.

3 MR. O'DONOVAN: Just a comment for the

4 record. The letter of the AFL-CIO to the Chair

5 of the GSP Subcommittee, I believe, in the docket

6 on the record.

7 Mr. Ambassador, to my knowledge, this

8 is the first time that a Petitioner has requested

9 the USTR close a review that they initiated. You

10 must have worked well with the Petitioner and

11 done something right.

12 MR. YASSEEN: Well, we've done other

13 much more difficult things in the last few years.

14 MR. O'DONOVAN: That is, I believe,

15 so. Thank you for your testimony.

16 MR. YASSEEN: Thanks.

17 MR. HERFINDAHL: Now, if I could ask

18 the government of Ecuador to come up, if the

19 delegation is here? So, I believe that the

20 government of Ecuador is not here, from what I

21 can see. So, maybe we can just reverse the order

22 of the panels so that we start with Chevron.


69

1 MR. ROMERO-DELMASTRO: We would be

2 glad to do that. If I may approach, I will be --

3 I have some prepared remarks. Just out of

4 convenience, I can give them to you so that you

5 can go along with us, if that's okay with you?

6 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you. I think

7 the court reporter, I think, would appreciate it.

8 Please proceed.

9 MR. ROMERO-DELMASTRO: Good morning,

10 Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee. My

11 name is Andre Romero. I'm Supervising Counsel

12 for Enterprise Litigation with Chevron

13 Corporation.

14 I'm joined by Doug Bishop with the law

15 firm of King & Spalding, who is lead counsel on

16 behalf of Chevron Corporation in the arbitration

17 against Ecuador. The issue before this

18 Subcommittee is very clear.

19 The GSP statute requires that

20 Ecuador's preferences are withdrawn or suspended

21 because of its failure to enforce, in good faith,

22 arbitral awards in favor of Chevron, a U.S.


70

1 company. As the USTR has announced as recently

2 as in December, the United States will vigorously

3 enforce eligibility criteria for preferential

4 access to the U.S. market.

5 And I'm reading -- I'm quoting from a

6 press release entitled, Trump Administration

7 Enforces Trade Preferences Program Eligibility.

8 The USTR added in that press release, "The

9 administration is committed to ensuring that

10 other countries keep their end of the bargain in

11 our trade relationships." Ecuador has not kept

12 its end of the bargain. To the contrary, for

13 almost seven years, Ecuador has defied the

14 arbitral award issued by an international

15 tribunal on the United States-Ecuador Bilateral

16 Investment Treaty.

17 And it has done so openly and with

18 impunity. In fact, before this very Subcommittee

19 last September, Ecuador refused to comment, to

20 comply and enforce the arbitral awards in favor

21 of Chevron.

22 Action should no longer be deferred,


71

1 especially in light of a very significant recent

2 development. On the 30th of this year, the

3 arbitral tribunal issued his final decision on

4 the merits of the claim from Chevron Corporation

5 against Ecuador.

6 In a 521-page award, the tribunal

7 unanimously found that the Ecuadorian judgment,

8 the $9.5 billion judgment against Ecuador,

9 violates international laws and it's

10 unenforceable on two independent, separate

11 grounds.

12 First, because it was procured from

13 fraud, bribery, and corruption. And second,

14 because it was based exclusively on environmental

15 claims that the Republic of Ecuador had already

16 settled and released years earlier.

17 This award on the merits as this

18 tribunal calls it, also reaffirmed that the

19 injury measures of 2012 and 2013 remain in effect

20 and directed Ecuador once again to take immediate

21 steps to render the corrupt Ecuadorian judgment

22 unenforceable.


72

1 Nevertheless, continuing with a long-

2 standing pattern of bad faith, Ecuador has

3 refused to comply with these awards on the

4 merits, just as it previously refused to comply

5 with the final entered measures, awards that

6 preceded it.

7 Indeed after the award issued in

8 August, Ecuador has publicly vowed not to comply

9 with the award and instead has continued to

10 openly support the very lawyers that the tribunal

11 found engaged in egregious fraud and corruption.

12 I want to mention three aspects of the

13 recent award on the merits that have a direct

14 bearing on Ecuador's failure to meet the legal

15 criteria under the GSP statute.

16 First, the board's finding that

17 Ecuador's responsible for the fraud. Second, the

18 award for reformation of the relief previously

19 granted under the injured measures award. And

20 third, that this is the final award on the

21 merits, final, binding, enforceable award. On

22 the first point, the tribunal found the evidence


73

1 of corruption to be so overwhelming -- those were

2 the tribunal's words -- that it said, short of a

3 signed confession, it must be the most thorough

4 documented testimonial proof of fraud ever put

5 before an arbitral tribunal.

6 The fraud -- the fact of the fraud and

7 the corruption cannot seriously be disputed.

8 Notably, the tribunal found that the presiding

9 judge acted corruptly in allowing the Plaintiffs

10 to draft the judgment against Chevron.

11 And that was not just an isolated

12 incident. It was a parade of corrupt acts. Just

13 to provide some examples, the tribunal found that

14 the Plaintiff's legal team blackmailed a judge,

15 then-presiding judge, forged expert reports,

16 bribed the court-appointed environmental expert,

17 ghost-wrote the court-appointed environmental

18 expert's report, in addition to ghost-writing the

19 judgment against the company and bribing the

20 presiding judge.

21 The extensiveness of the fraud exposes

22 the cynicism of Ecuador's position that its


74

1 domestic law somehow prevented it from complying

2 with award or that doing so in any way could

3 violate in human rights.

4 This is a deeply corrupt judgment. No

5 one has a legitimate interest in enforcing a

6 judgment obtained for bribery and built on false,

7 manufactured evidence. And Ecuador is not an

8 innocent third party.

9 The Ecuadorian appellate courts

10 affirmed the corrupt judgment despite having the

11 relevant evidence of fraud and corruption before

12 them. As a result, the tribunal found that

13 Ecuador was responsible under international law

14 for knowingly issuing, rendering enforceable, and

15 maintaining the enforceability of this corrupt

16 judgment.

17 This holding refused Ecuador's

18 attempts to portray itself as an innocent

19 bystander, an innocent third party to the fraud

20 committed by others against Chevron. On the

21 second point, they tried to affirm the final --

22 the relief that was granted in the interim


75

1 awards.

2 Namely, that Ecuador must take

3 immediate steps to remove the status of

4 enforceability of the corrupt Ecuadorian

5 judgment. The tribunal further confirmed, as it

6 has done before, and the board is aware, that

7 Ecuador violated the interim awards by failing to

8 suspend enforcement of the judgment.

9 The third point that I wanted to

10 highlight is the main changes in the last year

11 and before this upcoming year. The tribunal has

12 now reached its final conclusions on the merits.

13 Under the new convention, the

14 declaratory and injunctive relief in this award

15 is final, is binding, is immediately enforceable,

16 and is unappealable. Ecuador's position that the

17 award is not final because it is a partial award

18 is indefensible.

19 Ecuador took this position in its

20 recent letter to the Subcommittee. However, the

21 Track II is partial only because the damages

22 Ecuador owes for its breaches of the VAT remain


76

1 to be quantified in its own sequential stage of

2 arbitration, in Track III, and only goes as to

3 damages, not as to liability, which has already

4 been established finally and compulsively in the

5 Track II award.

6 However, this should be an undisputed

7 point. Actually, Ecuador acknowledged that there

8 was finality in the arbitration in a recent

9 filing on November the 1st, in which it stated,

10 "It is undisputed between the parties that the

11 second partial award on Track II is the final and

12 binding decision of the arbitral tribunal on the

13 issues adjudicated."

14 I'll repeat. Ecuador's position is

15 that it's undisputed that this award is final and

16 binding. They took this position in writing

17 before the arbitral tribunal, only to contradict

18 itself days later in its submission before this

19 subcommittee when it was expedient and convenient

20 to their interest to take a different position, a

21 position that's untenable and indefensible.

22 Despite all of this, Ecuador has taken


77

1 no steps whatsoever, much less immediate steps as

2 required under the award, to remove the status of

3 reversibility of the judgment.

4 Instead, Ecuador has publicly vowed

5 not to comply with the award, promised to provide

6 further support to the very lawyers who

7 perpetrated the fraud and actually delivered on

8 their promise and provided them support, monetary

9 and otherwise.

10 Continued to support attempts to

11 enforce the judgment and would entail those

12 attempts and actions in Annex 8 to a pre-hearing

13 submission. I will not go into details, but I

14 will mention two points.

15 One, within days from the issuance of

16 the award, the Vice President of Ecuador publicly

17 declared that the Chevron case is a national

18 cause and Ecuador's fundamental goal is to avoid

19 enforcement of the award. Ecuador's attorney

20 also met with Pablo Fajardo, the very Ecuadorian

21 lawyer central to the bribery and corruption,

22 involved in bribing judicial officials, court


78

1 officials, experts, extorting judges.

2 After all of these findings were made

3 by the tribunal, Ecuador's response is meet with

4 the very same person. And what was the purpose

5 of the meeting? According to public statements,

6 develop a roadmap to circumvent enforcement of

7 the award.

8 Ecuador's conduct is not compatible

9 with recognizing and enforcing the awards in good

10 faith, as the GSP demands. It's exactly the

11 opposite. Ecuador has taken affirmative steps to

12 support enforcement of the corrupt judgment, to

13 the detriment of a U.S. company.

14 And, under these circumstances, the

15 GSP statute demands the suspension of Ecuador's

16 trade manifest. This is not a closed question.

17 The GSP statute is very clear. Ecuador cannot

18 rely on its annulment action in the Dutch courts

19 to postpone compliance with the awards.

20 The text of U.S.-Ecuador BIT, the New

21 York Convention, the 1976 UNCITRAL rules, all

22 make it very clear that the awards are final,


79

1 binding, enforceable and unappealable. Ecuador

2 has an express obligation to carry out the awards

3 without delay, as was stated in the BIT award, in

4 the BIT treaty.

5 And in the context of the multi-

6 billion dollar judgment rendered through -- that

7 was procured through fraud, bribery and

8 corruption, there is a compelling need to suspend

9 enforcement of the awards now.

10 Chevron recognizes that Ecuador and

11 the U.S. have important economic ties. But trade

12 preferences should be granted consistent with the

13 statutory requirements.

14 Chevron submits that the suspension of

15 Ecuador's GSP benefits will incentivize Ecuador

16 to come into compliance, comply with the words,

17 and therefore, comply with the GSP statute.

18 Allowing Ecuador to continue to receive trade

19 benefits while it openly violates the statute by

20 facilitating an effort to extort billions of

21 dollars from a U.S. corporation would send a very

22 dangerous message to other GSP beneficiaries, a


80

1 message that they're free to do the same.

2 Chevron respectfully urges this

3 Subcommittee to do what the law requires, to

4 recommend to the president the immediate

5 suspension of Ecuador's GSP eligibility until

6 such time as it comes into compliance with the

7 awards. Thank you very much and I look forward

8 to your questions.


10 for your testimony today. So, we'll ask you

11 several questions in oral format and then, I

12 think we'll probably provide additional questions

13 in writing.

14 MR. MANDELL: Thank you and good

15 morning, Mr. Romero. Thank you for your

16 comments. I think the first question we have

17 relates to the statutory criteria for GSP

18 eligibility.

19 As you know, in the previous

20 discussion, Ecuador has contended that Congress

21 could not have intended to make non-compliance

22 with an interim award grounds for withdrawal of


81

1 GSP benefits because, according to Ecuador,

2 arbitral tribunals did not issue interim awards

3 before the enactment of the 1974 Trade Act.

4 To your knowledge, did tribunals issue

5 partial awards, like the one issued in this case

6 on August 30th, before 1974? We would welcome

7 examples that you can provide today or in your

8 post-hearing briefs.

9 MR. ROMERO: We will look for

10 examples. I would submit to you that the text of

11 the statute is very clear. The statute -- the

12 test in the statue is acting in good faith and

13 recognizing and binding or enforcing arbitral

14 awards.

15 It makes no distinction as to whether

16 the award is a partial award or not. It makes no

17 distinction as to whether the award is an interim

18 award or not. It says awards. And that the --

19 from the claiming of the standard, it is very

20 clear that we are informed of awards that are

21 binding, that are enforceable, that are final,

22 unappealable, under the Bilateral Investment


82

1 Treaty between Ecuador and the United States.

2 There's no doubt that there is an

3 ongoing obligation to comply and enforce and

4 recognize as binding those awards. And there can

5 be no question that the plain meaning of the

6 language in the statute has not been complied

7 with.

8 MR. MANDELL: Thank you very much.

9 And we would welcome examples of partial awards

10 before 1974 in your post-hearing briefs, if

11 possible. Our next question, moving on from the

12 statute, is to look at the arguments you made in

13 your pre-hearing brief regarding the tribunal's

14 orders in the partial award. In your pre-hearing

15 brief, you highlighted four actions that the

16 tribunal and the partial award ordered Ecuador to

17 take immediately.

18 We have several questions regarding

19 those actions. I'll ask them now. First, you

20 noted that the tribunal ordered Ecuador, on

21 notice from your company, from Chevron, to advise

22 in writing any of the national courts in which


83

1 enforcement actions remain pending of Ecuador's

2 "internationally wrongful acts."

3 Has Ecuador provided such notice? I'm

4 sorry. Has Chevron provided such notice to

5 Ecuador, with respect to any of these ongoing

6 enforcement actions. And, if so, has Ecuador

7 provided the requested written notice?

8 MR. ROMERO: Chevron provided the

9 notice immediately as a working out, I believe on

10 September 7th. Is that correct, Mr. Bishop?

11 MR. BISHOP: Yes. That's correct.

12 MR. ROMERO: On September 7th?

13 MR. BISHOP: Yes.

14 MR. ROMERO: As soon as the award

15 become public. As Ecuador is well aware and we

16 indicated in our notice, there's pending

17 enforcement actions in various jurisdictions,

18 including in Argentina and in Brazil. And under

19 the terms of the award, under paragraph 10.13 of

20 the award, sub-section three, Ecuador is required

21 to advise in writing those states of the finding

22 of this tribunal and the award, including that


84

1 this is saying that the judgment should not be

2 enforced in any other jurisdiction.

3 And it -- because it's a judgment that

4 violates international public policy. Ecuador

5 has failed to give notice to the courts and

6 authorities in Argentina and in Canada, as it was

7 required to do immediately.

8 And it has failed to comply with this

9 very simple, administerial step, showing, in our

10 submission, their bad faith and consistent with

11 their stated policy of not complying with the

12 award, finding every possible mechanism to

13 circumvent compliance with the award, as a matter

14 of national interest in the word of their own

15 senior officials. Anything you might want to

16 add, Mr. Bishop?

17 MR. BISHOP: No. I think that covers

18 it. We did immediately demand that Ecuador give

19 notice to the national courts where enforcement

20 was pending and Ecuador has refused to do so.

21 It's as simple as that.

22 MR. MANDELL: Thank you. One follow-


85

1 up -- has, to date, any of the enforcement

2 actions outside of Ecuador, been successful in

3 reaching a judicial finding that the award shall

4 be enforced in any foreign jurisdictions?

5 MR. ROMERO: To date, they have not

6 been successful. I would submit that has no

7 bearing on the question of whether Ecuador is

8 meeting its obligation under the GSP statute of

9 enforcing the awards against it.

10 It has not been because of Ecuador's

11 conduct that the enforcement proceedings against

12 the company and the large scale judicial attack

13 against the company in multiple jurisdictions

14 around the world have been unsuccessful, to date.

15 It has been in spite of Ecuador's

16 conduct and despite this active support of the

17 two corrupt lawyers behind this action and active

18 support for the enforcement of this bought and

19 paid for multi-billion dollar judgment against

20 the company.

21 If your question is as to whether

22 there has been harm to the company or there's an


86

1 imminent risk to the company, I would submit that

2 the answer is yes. There is a -- I cannot

3 overstate the significance of forcing the

4 company, dragging the company around the world,

5 to defend actions seeking to enforce a corrupt,

6 fraudulent judgment, in multiple venues

7 simultaneously and trying to prove over and over

8 again, in every one of these courts, that this is

9 a fraudulent, corrupt judgment.

10 It's a significant, substantial

11 endeavor and something that Ecuador has within

12 its power to stop. It should not be a

13 controversial proposition that a judgment that

14 was obtained through bribery should not be

15 enforceable.

16 It is remarkable for Ecuador to take

17 the position that since the judgment has not been

18 enforced, there's no harm. What should be

19 uncontroversial and an undisputed view is, if the

20 fraud -- faced with overwhelming evidence of

21 fraud and corruption, this is not a judgment that

22 should be allowed to stand in any country.


87

1 Well, if the award requires Ecuador to

2 reimburse Chevron for any payments it required to

3 make under this corrupt judgment, will Ecuador

4 commit to immediately reimburse Chevron $9.5

5 billion dollars without delay, if any of these

6 actions are ever successful? Clearly not.

7 In September, right before this same

8 Subcommittee, Ecuador was asked whether they will

9 commit to comply with the award, they said, no,

10 they won't. And that's consistent with their

11 public position -- public position from very

12 senior government officials, that Ecuador refuses

13 to recognize as binding and enforce the award, an

14 award that, again, says something that's

15 controversial.

16 There cannot be a serious debate as to

17 whether this is a corrupt judgment. The tribunal

18 is not alone in finding -- making findings of

19 fraud and corruption. The findings are made over

20 hundreds of pages in great detail and are

21 entirely consistent with the findings of U.S.

22 courts, that found the judgment to have been the


88

1 part of racketeering activity and violations of

2 the Hobbs Act, of wire fraud, of obstruction of

3 justice, witness tampering, bribery of foreign

4 officials and FCPA violations.

5 Every court that has looked at the

6 issue outside of Ecuador has concluded that this

7 is a judgment that's deeply flawed, that it's a

8 corrupt judgment. And it should not be

9 controversial. That's not a judgment that should

10 be allowed to stand.

11 What the tribunal ordered Ecuador is,

12 take steps to the remove the status of

13 enforceability of that judgment. And it's what

14 the company believes is appropriate and the GSP

15 statute calls for. Anything you would like to

16 add to that, Mr. Bishop?

17 MR. BISHOP: No. I think that's very

18 comprehensive. Thank you.

19 MR. ROMERO: Okay.

20 MR. MANDELL: In the interest of time,

21 maybe just one further question regarding your

22 description of the steps that you view Ecuador as


89

1 being required to take to comply with the

2 tribunal's partial award. You've also mentioned

3 in your pre-hearing brief, and you've just stated

4 here today, the obligation of Ecuador to "remove

5 the status of enforceability" of the Lago Agrio

6 judgment.

7 You've also highlighted in your pre-

8 hearing brief the requirement to "preclude the

9 Plaintiffs from enforcing any part of the Lago

10 Agrio judgment" and also to "wipe out all of the

11 consequences" of Ecuador's wrongful acts. The

12 tribunal phrased these orders as actions that

13 Ecuador is required to take, to take immediate

14 steps of its own choosing.

15 Can you be specific and list a few

16 examples of actions that Ecuador could take to

17 comply with these three other orders from the

18 tribunal?

19 MR. ROMERO: Well, the tribunal

20 established as obligations of result and

21 obligations imposed on the Republic of Ecuador,

22 the state as a whole, not any given branch.


90

1 It's up to Ecuador to decide whether

2 they will achieve that through judicial action,

3 court proceedings, actions by the attorney or the

4 Prosecutor General, legislative action. That's

5 why it's open to Ecuador to decide how to do it.

6 But why did they achieve their result of removing

7 the status of enforceability of the judgment.

8 We have previously in prior

9 submissions, outlined examples of steps that

10 Ecuador could easily take. You, in your

11 questions, reference one, for example, informing

12 the foreign courts where the enforcement

13 proceedings are pending, that the award has made

14 these findings, that this is a judgment that

15 shouldn't be recognized.

16 Some of the examples that we have

17 provided previously remain relevant and

18 appropriate. And it can, of course, take steps

19 to revoke the court order that made the judgment

20 enforceable in the first place.

21 It can do what the tribunal

22 specifically ordered and send letters to the


91

1 courts in Argentina and Canada. It can take

2 judicial action to -- seeking to enjoin the

3 Plaintiffs from enforcing the corrupt judgment.

4 It can comply with its own law, with

5 Article 11 of the Constitution, which requires

6 every public servant, even on its own initiative

7 to take all required steps to protect

8 constitutional rights, which include the

9 constitutional rights of the company that have

10 been grossly violated through the domestic

11 proceedings in Ecuador.

12 The tribunal would have the

13 constitutional authority to issue an opinion to a

14 court, the courts and authorities around the

15 Ecuador on the unenforceability of that judgment

16 or take action, either under the procedural

17 devices that it decides to seek to remove the

18 status of enforceability of the judgment.

19 And it can certainly do something very

20 easily which is stop taking affirmative steps to

21 support enforcement of the judgment. As we

22 detailed in Annex A of our pre-hearing


92

1 submission, the level of support is astounding.

2 It goes from everything from giving

3 funding to the very parties involved in the fraud

4 recently, attending a recent conference in Canada

5 promoting the enforcement of the corrupt judgment

6 against the company in Canada, and openly

7 supporting the Plaintiffs in a variety of ways.

8 So, it is not just by omission that

9 Ecuador is failing to comply with the award, but

10 also through their actions. Anything that you

11 would like to add, Mr. Bishop?

12 MR. BISHOP: No. I think that covers

13 it, again, pretty comprehensively. If they take

14 those actions, they will, effectively, make the

15 judgment unenforceable. And that's what we're

16 really seeking and that's exactly what the

17 tribunal ordered.

18 MR. HERFINDAHL: Great. Well, I'd

19 like to thank you for your participation today.

20 And again, you'll receive some further questions

21 from us in writing. And we would appreciate it

22 if you could answer them in the post-hearing.


93

1 MR. ROMERO: We would be very glad to

2 do so. Thank you very much for allowing us to

3 participate today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for

4 accommodating the schedule and scheduling this

5 this morning.

6 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you. Now, if

7 I could ask the Ambassador of Ecuador to come

8 forward, please, for your statement?

9 MR. CARRION MENA: Good morning. I'm

10 the Ambassador of Ecuador to the United States.

11 And in my capacity, I am here to say that we

12 appreciate this opportunity to present our

13 position on this point of the agenda.

14 I would like to start by celebrating

15 that the bilateral relations between Ecuador and

16 the United States have really deepened recently.

17 In one year-and-a-half, it has been great change

18 between the whole relations between the two

19 countries.

20 This has been reflected among many

21 other elements in the recent visit of Vice-

22 President Pence to Quito, Ecuador on June of this


94

1 year, as well as the reactivation of the trade

2 and investment agreement, TIC, that held its

3 meeting on November 15, a few days ago here in

4 Washington.

5 We value the strong historical ties

6 between our two countries, as well as the

7 potential expansion of our bilateral relations in

8 this new era. I would say that we are working

9 hand-in-hand. As a sign of good faith, Ecuador

10 agreed to review issues related to the GSP at a

11 meeting of the TIC held exactly two weeks ago, I

12 think in this same room or a similar one. So,

13 it's familiar for us to be here. And, on that

14 occasion, Ecuador presented elements, not only on

15 this issue, but also in other important areas of

16 bilateral concern.

17 And we committed ourselves to

18 establishing a broader cooperation framework in

19 order to strengthen bilateral relations in all

20 fields. Likewise, Ecuador submitted a pre-

21 hearing brief within the time and format

22 described by the USTR.


95

1 With this, I want to highlight, again,

2 that Ecuador has taken every opportunity to

3 answer to the USTR on this matter and in others,

4 of course. And we highly appreciate the effort

5 made by the USTR to provide the forums so we can

6 present our position.

7 Now, if you allow me, I will give the

8 floor to Mr. Juan Carlos Sanchez, the Deputy

9 Chief of the Embassy of Ecuador in Washington,

10 who will give a more detailed explanation of the

11 arguments included by Ecuador in its pre-hearing

12 brief.

13 We hope that these explanations can

14 contribute to better understanding of the

15 Ecuadorian position in this regard. But before,

16 I would like to clarify that once finishing the

17 following presentation, we will take note of the

18 questions that the panel would have in order to

19 answer them in detail through our post-hearing

20 brief that we will send in due time as will be

21 agreed.

22 With that, I will thank you very much,


96

1 Mr. Chair, and members of the panel for this

2 opportunity to explain the position of Ecuador.

3 Mr. Sanchez, please?

4 MR. SANCHEZ: Thank you very much, Mr.

5 Chair and members of the panel. I would like to

6 focus this presentation in three elements. The

7 first one is that Ecuador has a clean record of

8 compliance with final awards.

9 The element two is the Track II award

10 is a partial award and it is subject to judicial

11 review and other courts awarded remedies. And

12 element three is that Ecuador continues to engage

13 in good faith to fulfill its international law

14 obligations.

15 Regarding the first element, the

16 guiding principle for Ecuador has been to always

17 comply with final awards. Ecuador's record shows

18 a previous position to satisfy international

19 obligations once ours are final.

20 As this panel is aware, in a previous

21 arbitration proceeding initiated by Chevron,

22 which has been referred to commercial cases


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1 arbitration, Ecuador paid Chevron more than $112

2 million in 2016, thus fully satisfying the

3 commercial cases award.

4 Payment of the commission award,

5 followed a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court

6 denying Ecuador's petition to reconsider a 2011

7 decision confirming the commercial cases award

8 issued by a U.S. District Court and a set-aside

9 proceeding before the courts of the Netherlands

10 in which Ecuador did not succeed.

11 Payment of the commercial cases award

12 is consistent with Ecuador's history of such

13 final arbitration awards. This history also

14 includes payments made in satisfaction of other

15 final awards, including, number one, a payment of

16 approximately $1 billion in an accident

17 arbitration initiated by Occidental Exploration

18 and Production Company, which is an American

19 company under the U.S.-Ecuador BIP.

20 This case was known as Occi-II. The

21 example number two is the satisfaction of an

22 arbitration award entered on July 2014 in favor


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1 of Occidental. Also, under the BIT between the

2 U.S. and Ecuador. This is the case Occi won.

3 The payment and satisfaction of an

4 accident award entered on February 2017 in favor

5 of Bordington Resources, Inc. under the BIT,

6 U.S.-Ecuador. And finally, the fourth example is

7 the payment of an accident award entered on

8 December 2010 in favor of Moore Exploration and

9 Pollution Company International.

10 This history shows Ecuador's

11 uncontroverted record of good faith and

12 compliance with all international obligations

13 arising from and coming to a final decision. It

14 is worth noticing that all of the awards

15 mentioned before establish monetary obligation or

16 money damage.

17 Where there is a Track II award,

18 there's not. Instead, the Track II award imposes

19 a specific performance orders an injunctive

20 relief. Complications arise when the orders are

21 at odds with domestic law and when they compete

22 with other international obligations.


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1 In this regard, it is important to

2 consider that in the United States, the Supreme

3 Court has expressed that, under U.S. law, and I

4 quote, "Foreign judgments awarding injunctive

5 relief are not generally enforceable." So, the

6 U.S. would like to find that some orders are not

7 enforceable.

8 Also, there is only, to Ecuadorian

9 knowledge, there is only one instance where a

10 country's status at GSP has been suspended on the

11 basis of non-compliance with final arbitral

12 awards. That was in 2012 when Argentina was

13 found in non-compliance two such awards.

14 There were final awards only after

15 they were confirmed in their respective annulment

16 proceedings and they imposed monetary

17 obligations. In connection with the second

18 element, the Track II award is a partial award.

19 And it is still subject to judicial

20 review and other post-award remedies. Chevron

21 labors to effect the award as a final award. To

22 be sure, this award can be considered definitive


100

1 only in that it resolves the issues considered by

2 the panel in this phase of the arbitration.

3 However, the Track II award could

4 still be subject to judicial review at the seat

5 of arbitration. Also, if it's subject to post-

6 award remedies, pursuant to the rules. Under

7 Dutch law, it qualifies as still a right to ask

8 the Dutch courts to nullify this and decide if it

9 should be set aside partially or completely.

10 The award will be final to the extent

11 it is confirmed by the Dutch courts. Ecuador,

12 following its rights, will present such request

13 before the Dutch courts. A decision from ruling

14 court, could modify the award as restrictive to

15 scope or nullify entire sections or others among

16 other options.

17 For Ecuador, it is not reasonable for

18 Chevron to intend to disrupt its bilateral

19 relations on the basis of an award who's legality

20 could still be put under the scrutiny of the

21 Dutch court.

22 Again, we have to repeat here that


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1 there has been only one instance where a

2 country's status of GSP beneficiary has been

3 suspended on the basis of non-compliance with

4 final arbitration awards, the two cases of

5 Argentina that we mentioned.

6 These were final awards, after they

7 were confirmed in their respective annulment

8 proceedings. Finally, regarding the third

9 element, Ecuador continues to engage in good

10 faith to fulfill its international law

11 obligations.

12 It is worth to notice that the GSP

13 statute implies that a good faith and ability to

14 comply is not a basis to terminate trade

15 preference. Even if non-compliance with an award

16 that is under review in the course of the

17 arbitration was a basis to terminate trade

18 preference, the GSP statute requires a showing of

19 bad faith. And Chevron has not provided any

20 proof of this. For the sake of clarity, Ecuador

21 would like to divide this third element into

22 three parts.


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1 The first part is Chevron's reliance

2 on public statements and symbolic political acts

3 is misguided. The arbitrator never found that

4 public comments about Chevron or about the

5 arbitration process constituted a violation of

6 the BIT or of any award ordered.

7 To the contrary, they have repeatedly

8 affirmed that it would not inject itself into the

9 parties' respective public relations battles.

10 And it expressly declined to impose a gag order

11 on either party.

12 Before responding to Chevron's many

13 attacks, Ecuador originally sought assistance

14 from the tribunal, which declined to intervene

15 and instead opted to permit the parties to

16 publicly comment freely on the dispute.

17 Ecuador has every right to comment on

18 this proceeding. It shows that Chevron has

19 abided itself on its right to do so through no

20 fewer than seven public relations firms.

21 Chevron's reference to Vice-President Vicuna's

22 political statement related to the case, is


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1 irrelevant for this proceeding. Chevron's

2 reference to Attorney General Salvador's

3 statements at meetings are mischaracterized and

4 taken out of context.

5 Chevron's continued focus on political

6 statements and political acts only serves to

7 highlight its failure to question the good faith

8 of Ecuador through Ecuador's court of opinion in

9 considering competing international law

10 obligations.

11 In the Track II award, the tribunal

12 confirmed again that Ecuador's political

13 statements and acts do not amount to

14 international grounds. It also pointed out that

15 political statements in the context of an

16 environmental pollution case are very common in

17 most countries and are understandable.

18 The examples include statements from

19 former President Barack Obama and his

20 administration after the Deepwater Horizon oil

21 spill. There is no basis to terminate trade

22 preference based on conduct that the tribunal


104

1 itself found permissible and acceptable.

2 The second part of this third element

3 is, at the termination of Ecuador's good faith or

4 bad faith, it requires an analysis of Ecuador's

5 Court of Appeals. Pursuant to Ecuadorian law,

6 the Court of Appeals was the sole decision-maker

7 that at the time, Ecuador had no legal capacity

8 to comply with internal awards. In the more than

9 six years since issuance of a 2012 Court of

10 Appeals decision and the many opportunities to

11 address this decision in this form and in

12 arbitration, Chevron has never challenged the

13 good faith of the Ecuadorian Court of Appeals.

14 Since the issuance of the Track II

15 award on August 30, 2018, Ecuador's officials are

16 currently exploring whether there is a legal

17 right to implement some of the orders. A

18 possible notion currently explored is trying to

19 seek an updated consideration or reconsideration

20 by the Court of Appeals of Ecuador.

21 Under this scenario, the

22 enforceability of the Track II award would be


105

1 addressed by this court given the competing

2 international law requirements under the Inter-

3 American Human Rights Convention.

4 But also considering the conclusion of

5 the tribunal and its Track II award. U.S. courts

6 generally require state and federal courts to

7 deem valid Medellin v. Texas the acts of foreign

8 courts taken within their own jurisdictions.

9 The third part of this third element

10 is the decision of Ecuador's Court of Appeals is

11 similar to the new Supreme Court decision in. In

12 previous years' submissions, Ecuador has noted

13 the parallel here to the Medellin case, in so far

14 as the United States' failure to comply with that

15 international court of justice internal award

16 and, subsequently, an ICJ judgment.

17 In the Medellin case, the U.S. Supreme

18 Court found that the U.S. could not comply with a

19 judgment issued by the ICJ because of its

20 domestic law. The court concluded that even

21 though an international treaty may constitute an

22 international commitment, it is not binding


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1 domestic law unless Congress has enacted,

2 institutes, implementation.

3 It is self-executing. The United

4 States did not act in bad faith, in the same

5 manner as Ecuador is not acting in bad faith now.

6 In fact, Ecuador's certain that the international

7 and domestic legal issues raised by the interim

8 award and the Track II award are quite similar to

9 those in Medellin and more complex than those

10 faced by the U.S. government in the Medellin

11 case.

12 In the Medellin case, the United

13 States agrees that a part, a difficult part, to

14 comply. Whereas, Ecuador had no part at all.

15 Ecuador has noted in the past that in the case of

16 Medellin, the only value to U.S. compliance was

17 domestic law which, by definition, could have

18 been remedied by the United States.

19 In contrast, Ecuador's situation is

20 more difficult due to the existence of a

21 competing international law commitment. Ecuador

22 cannot unilaterally alter the text of commitments


107

1 contained in the Human Rights Conventions.

2 And finally, Mr. Chair and members of

3 the panel, I would like to make some brief

4 comments about the importance of GSP for Ecuador.

5 GSP represents the recognition by developed

6 countries of the need to support developing

7 countries in order for them to have greater

8 opportunity of participating in international

9 trade, which is one of the main elements to

10 reduce poverty and create jobs.

11 At the same time, GSP has been an

12 important driver for the development of several

13 industries in the countries that were granted

14 preference. In summary, GSP benefits the

15 economies of the preference-granting countries,

16 as well as the beneficiary countries.

17 In the case of Ecuador, a fair amount

18 of the products that benefit from the GSP, come

19 from the small and medium-sized enterprises and

20 are produced in rural areas. The GSP has enabled

21 these people to continue producing in a

22 sustainable manner.


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1 It is worth mentioning that in the

2 last decade, the agricultural sector in Ecuador

3 has helped to reduce poverty from 61 percent to

4 38 percent. Agriculture accounts for 25 percent

5 of the economic populations in Ecuador.

6 Between 2010 and 2017, the

7 participation of the imports made by the United

8 States from Ecuador, under the GSP has increased

9 significantly, both in the number of products as

10 well as on their imported value.

11 The imports made by the United States

12 from Ecuador under the GSP went from U.S. dollars

13 $54 million, in 2010 to $435 million in 2017.

14 While, 2010, the imports made by the U.S. from

15 Ecuador under GSP represented just 3 percent of

16 the total non-oil imports from our country, this

17 percentage increased to 17 percent in 2017.

18 During this same period, the number of

19 products imported by the United States from

20 Ecuador under the GSP also increased from 168 to

21 309, which is an increase of 4 -- of 141. In

22 2010, the number of exporters that benefit from


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1 the U.S.-GSP was 623. During 2016, that number

2 rose to 801, increasing by 178 exporters.

3 A loss of preference will surely mean

4 the disappearance of growth in businesses in

5 Ecuador, increasing poverty and denying the whole

6 purpose for which this scheme was created four

7 decades ago, to support the development of

8 developing countries.

9 In this sense, Ecuador asks the USTR

10 not to allow an arbitration process that is not

11 yet finalized to interrupt the very fruitful

12 cooperation between our two countries and decide

13 to strengthen trade relations. Thank you very

14 much.

15 MR. HERFINDAHL: So, thank you very

16 much for your comprehensive statement, Mr.

17 Ambassador. I took note of your request that you

18 provide responses in writing to our questions.

19 So, we, both respecting that, and in

20 the interest of time, we will submit all our

21 questions to you in writing for a response in the

22 post-hearing brief. Thank you very much for your


110

1 participation today.

2 MR. CARRION MENA: Let me only say a

3 final sentence because we have a problem with

4 this with Chevron. It's only to regulate that

5 Ecuador wants to finish this long-standing issue.

6 It's too much. But under, of course, the rule of

7 law, and not by pressure, we will exercise all

8 our means in due law to make this issue

9 terminate.

10 Because, as I said in the beginning,

11 we are opening a new era of relations between our

12 countries. And we want not to have any more of

13 these problems that have affected our relations.

14 Thank you very much.


16 Mr. Ambassador, and thank you for your

17 participation today. So, at this time, we will

18 adjourn until 1:15, when we'll take up Thailand's

19 worker rights issue. Thank you.

20 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter

21 went off the record at 12:27 p.m. and resumed at

22 1:19 p.m.)


111

1 MR. HERFINDAHL: So, welcome to the

2 Royal Government of Thailand, we're delighted to

3 have you here.

4 We'll recommence our hearing. The

5 agenda for the afternoon, I would note, we have a

6 very full agenda. We're covering four countries

7 this afternoon. So, we would ask that everyone

8 who's speaking stick to the five minutes so we

9 have plenty of time for questions and answers.

10 So, with that, I'd like to turn it

11 over to the Government of Thailand for your

12 statement, please.

13 MR. KUNTAMAS: Thank you.

14 Hello, I am Minister Noppadon Kuntamas

15 of the Office of Commercial Affairs of the Royal

16 Thai Government Embassy to the United States.

17 The Royal Thai Government really

18 appreciates the opportunity to testify in front

19 of GSP Subcommittee today. And, we thank you for

20 your commitment to the generalized system of

21 preferences GSP.

22 The GSP is important, too, for


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1 Thailand economic development. The RTG really

2 appreciates the creation of this important

3 economic development vehicle and is wholly

4 committed to the same essential objective.

5 The RTG views GSP as one of the most

6 tools available to improve the standard of living

7 of our Thai people while providing U.S. business

8 input and products essential to their successful

9 operation and job creation.

10 In the past, many Thai people did not

11 have the chance to find a good job in Thailand, a

12 predominantly agricultural society. Most

13 agricultural work allowed the people to earn very

14 little. The nature of the Thai economy has been

15 changing, however, to be mixed with agricultural

16 and industrial opportunities.

17 The RTG seeks to prepare Thai people

18 for this new way of life, as well as to monitor

19 the situations in which they work. The

20 Government has put in place on a fairly recent

21 basis the formal social support required to

22 facilitate a change.


113

1 In 1993, the RTG moved a very small

2 department under the Ministry of the Interior to

3 become a standalone Ministry of Labour to help

4 workers transition to very different working

5 environments.

6 In 2002, the RTG established the

7 Ministry of Labour and Social -- I'm sorry, the

8 Ministry of Social Development and Human

9 Security, a former small department to provide

10 more support of the transition.

11 The RTG recognizes that putting in

12 place key laws and effective enforcement is

13 paramount for fulfilling GSP's opportunities for

14 Thailand and its people, as they increase the

15 standard of living while being afforded

16 internationally recognized workers' rights.

17 Labour reform is a key priority within

18 Thailand and we are currently knee deep in a

19 multi-step process to amend the country's top two

20 labor relation laws, LRA and SELRA.

21 Thailand acknowledges the frustration

22 with the pace of the conclusion of this process.


114

1 As Director General Vivathana will discuss, the

2 solicitation and essential integration of

3 hundreds of comments into revised drafts was far

4 more complex and time consuming than anticipated.

5 We are committed to achieve the shared

6 goal of providing workers with internationally

7 recognized standards of protected rights.

8 To do so, our Government is actively

9 working towards successful passage of the draft

10 bills while adhering to the steps required by our

11 Constitution and legal system.

12 Furthermore, the Ministry of Labour is

13 currently working to accelerate the process by

14 requesting cooperation from the State of Council

15 to shorten the duration of the draft bills

16 consideration.

17 Although this legal reform process is

18 not as expeditious as many would prefer, it is

19 comprehensive and inclusive and adheres to

20 requirements of our legal system.

21 I would like now to introduce Mr.

22 Vivathana, the Director General of the Department


115

1 of Labour and Protection and Welfare.

2 MR. THANGHONG: Thank you, Minister

3 Noppadon for your introduction and thank you to

4 you to --

5 (Off microphone comments)

6 MR. THANGHONG: Thank you to the GSP

7 Subcommittee. I will update the Subcommittee on

8 the Royal Thai Government's concrete steps to

9 reform the Labour Relations Act and State

10 Enterprises Labour Relation Act to provide an

11 international standard of working rights.

12 In addition, I would like to describe

13 how the Government has also fulfilled its

14 commitment and Constitutional mandate to involve

15 all interested stakeholders in the meaningful

16 review of the revised laws draft.

17 The Ministry of Labour, through the

18 Department of Labour Protection and Welfare

19 proposed draft revisions of the Labour Relations

20 Act, the LRA, and the State Enterprises Labour

21 Relations Act, SELRA, in 2014.

22 The purpose of the revisions was to


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1 expand the ability of workers to organize and

2 bargain collectively.

3 While the two draft Acts were being

4 considered by the Cabinet in 2015, the Thai

5 Labour Solidarity Committee, the TLSC, submitted

6 a proposal to the Ministry of Labour to halt

7 their process of submission.

8 The Thai Labour Solidarity Committee

9 felt that the drafted Acts needed revision to

10 comply with the principles of ILO Conventions

11 Number 87 and 98 to facilitate their

12 ratification.

13 Just weeks later, in March 2015,the

14 Ministry of Labour convened a meeting with

15 representatives from the labor organizations and

16 employers organizations to consider the proposal

17 of the Thai Labour Solidarity Committee.

18 The meeting concluded with these

19 resolutions.

20 Firstly, the two Acts drafted by the

21 Government needed to be withdrawn by the Ministry

22 of Labour.


117

1 And, secondly, a working group was to

2 be established, comprising representatives of the

3 Government, employers and employee organizations

4 to draft new versions of the Labour Relations Act

5 and the State Enterprises Labor Relations Act.

6 The Ministry of Labour subsequently

7 withdrew the then draft Acts from the Cabinet's

8 consideration and established the Tripartite

9 Working Group whose non-government members were

10 nominated by their organizations, respectively,

11 including representatives from the TLSC.

12 The Tripartite Working Group reviewed

13 the proposed legislative changes to establish a

14 draft that was then reviewed the ILO.

15 However, later on, representatives

16 from the TLSC withdrew themselves from the

17 Tripartite Working Group.

18 The public hearing process began in

19 February of this year. It included holding four

20 hearings around the country which were attended

21 by 674 people.

22 Public hearing attendees included


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1 representatives of employees organizations,

2 employers organizations, activists on labor

3 rights, Government sectors and the Chamber of

4 Commerce. Workers from 15 labor congresses also

5 testified as did employers of 15 employers

6 confederations.

7 To give you an example of the views

8 expressed at the hearings, a representative of

9 the Thai Labour Solidarity Committee testified

10 against migrant workers rights to form a union.

11 Of the 218 hearing attendees who

12 filled out a questionnaire asking their views

13 subject to the rights to organize of migrant

14 workers, 92 percent disagreed with migrant

15 workers rights to form a union.

16 Each completed questionnaire was

17 reviewed by the Ministry of Labour. The results

18 were proposed to the Ministry of Labour's

19 Ministerial Law Development Committee which

20 integrated them into the draft labor relations

21 law.

22 Initially, only 19 provisions of the


119

1 draft law were thought to require change. The

2 process of review by the Ministerial Law

3 Development Committee, however, was found to be

4 more complex.

5 A change to one provision then

6 required changes to other provisions.

7 Hence, the Ministerial Law Development

8 Committee was unable to finish the revised draft

9 labor relations law as scheduled and as

10 previously communicated to USTR.

11 Before I conclude, I would like to

12 emphasize four important points.

13 Firstly, labor law reform to protect

14 all employees continues to be a top priority of

15 the Royal Thai Government.

16 Secondly, the reform delay was caused

17 by the extensive public hearing and public input

18 integration process. This was complex and

19 unexpectedly time consuming.

20 Thirdly, in early November, review and

21 integration of the public comments was complete.

22 I am happy to report that, under the legal


120

1 revision process, the Ministry of Labour has

2 formally submitted the revised, amended laws to

3 the Cabinet for its consideration and approval in

4 principle.

5 Looking ahead, it would be very

6 helpful and mutually beneficial if the Royal Thai

7 Government and the U.S. Government can join hands

8 and work together in the spirit of partnership on

9 labor issue.

10 From the Thai side, there are many

11 things that I believe we could learn from

12 experience and best practice of the United

13 States. We could also work with the United

14 States on capacity building where needed.

15 We would be open to discussing with

16 the U.S. side on how the two countries can move

17 forward with this partnership framework.

18 Thank you.

19 MR. KUNTAMAS: And, that concludes our

20 testimony in support of the Royal Thai

21 Government. Thank you again, and we welcome your

22 questions.


121

1 Thank you.

2 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you very much.

3 I know that we'll have several

4 questions for you.

5 MR. KARAWA: Thank you, again, for

6 your attendance and comments.

7 My question is regarding the time

8 frame. Your submission explains why it has taken

9 longer to amend the Labor Relations Act than

10 presented to us in recent time lines.

11 What are the next steps in the process

12 for amending this Labor Relations Act and what is

13 the Government anticipated time frame? Are these

14 simple estimates or are these required procedures

15 which you said the time frame was possible?

16 Thank you.

17 MR. THANGHONG: So, thank you for your

18 questions. I would like to reaffirm that, at

19 present, the draft is under the process of

20 submission to the Cabinet.

21 It is expected the Cabinet will

22 approve the draft in principle in December of


122

1 this year. Next, the Council of State, which

2 normally takes three months to consider the

3 wording and content.

4 So, it's supposed to be finished by

5 March 2019. Then the draft report to the process

6 of ad hoc comments that are already assembled for

7 considering the viability of enforcement and its

8 impact.

9 This step normally takes two months,

10 so it's proposed to be finished within May 2019.

11 After that, the draft will be put in

12 queue for approval by the National Facility

13 Assembly.

14 MR. KUNTAMAS: Let me add to RTG for

15 a little bit why it is late. As he was

16 mentioning earlier that actually initially only

17 19 provisions of the draft law were thought to

18 require change.

19 But, when it comes to take an action,

20 one relates to another. So, that would have more

21 comments than we anticipated. Thank you.

22 MR. O'DONOVAN: Good afternoon, and


123

1 good to see you again, Director General.

2 In your submission, you state that

3 Thailand is not ready to set up a system of labor

4 unions formed by migrant workers in your pre-

5 hearing brief.

6 In your testimony here before us

7 today, you talk about how members of the Thai

8 Labor Solidarity Committee testified against

9 migrant workers' rights to form a union and 92

10 percent disagreed with the migrant workers'

11 rights to form a union -- to form independent

12 unions unaffiliated with existing unions.

13 I'm wondering, what is the rationale

14 for Thailand's decision to deny migrant workers

15 the right of association? Is the rationale

16 because 92 percent of respondents argued against

17 it or is there another reason?

18 MR. KUNTAMAS: He will translate.

19 MR. THANGHONG: It may be more easy

20 for me to answer in Thai language.

21 MR. THRIRATTANAWONG (TRANSLATOR FOR

22 MR. THANGHONG): He said, under the Thai


124

1 Constitution, we have to have public hearings and

2 we have to take those comments into

3 consideration.

4 Anyway, migrant workers should be able

5 to -- we allow to be a member of the Labor Union

6 Committee on a ratio of one to five.

7 And, under our consideration by the

8 Council of State, the Ministry of Labour will try

9 to advise to include the prohibition that allow

10 the migrant workers forming labor unions again.

11 Right now, the Government tried to

12 legalize the migrant worker by asking to register

13 so they can be protected under the law. So, that

14 -- the new principle and the step that are going

15 to take to protect the migrant workers.

16 MR. O'DONOVAN: Thank you for that

17 answer. One quick follow up question if I may,

18 I'm wondering if what steps the Government took

19 during the process of those hearings to educate

20 the public and the public who attended those

21 public hearings regarding the fundamental rights

22 of migrant workers to associate in the union of


125

1 their choice?

2 MR. THANGHONG: We do several seminars

3 on this to inform the migrant workers of their

4 rights. And several educational information as

5 in even to migrant workers and also any

6 employers.

7 MS. SANDLER: What was that last?

8 MR. THANGHONG: Employers.

9 MR. HERFINDAHL: Could you just repeat

10 it in the microphone?

11 MR. THANGHONG: The Ministry of Labour

12 have organized several seminars or educational

13 programs to the migrant workers or any employers

14 of Thailand and also educational information has

15 been distributed to them.

16 MR. O'DONOVAN: Thank you.

17 MS. HELM: Hi, your submission notes

18 that a new revision to the draft law allows

19 migrants to serve as members of a union Board of

20 Directors in a ratio not exceeding 20 percent of

21 Thai nationals.

22 The argument of the AFL-CIO is that


126

1 the existing unions do not serve migrant workers

2 in the sectors where they work because

3 proportionally few Thai nationals work in

4 fishing, construction or agriculture.

5 If there are no unions in these

6 sectors, then there are no unions for the migrant

7 workers to join.

8 How does this provision help migrant

9 workers set up unions in those sectors?

10 MR. THANGHONG: So, thank you for your

11 question, it's a really very good question.

12 But, anyway, we will respond using our

13 post hearing submission. Thank you.

14 MS. MITCH: Thank you very much.

15 This question concerns the enforcement

16 of Labour Relations Committee decisions.

17 Petitioners submission and periodic updates

18 detailed examples of instances in which workers

19 have been subject to apparent unfair labor

20 practices and appealed to the Labour Relations

21 Committee for protection.

22 And, despite a favorable decision,


127

1 they've been unable to secure their rights

2 because employers have not been forced to comply

3 with the LRC decision.

4 How can the LRC better ensure that

5 employers will enforce its orders and can you

6 provide additional detail on how often the LRC

7 takes civil or criminal proceedings against

8 employers for failure to comply? What else may

9 explain the apparently high rate of

10 noncompliance?

11 MS. TECHAGOMAIN: In our new draft, we

12 helped add the face which has determined if any

13 decision which is made by the Committee on Labor

14 Relations would not be a result to relief, even

15 though you put those decisions into the appeal

16 court.

17 So, basically it goes two ways, we

18 have to act immediately after the decision made

19 by the Committee. But then, on the employee

20 side, they still have the right to go through the

21 court.

22 So, different way, so actively and for


128

1 employee, they have the right to defend

2 themselves by the court.

3 So, that means they have to put any

4 action of the Committee right away.

5 And a statistics, we will send you

6 that late on the post-hearing. Thank you.

7 MR. O'DONOVAN: Thank you so much, we

8 appreciate any statistics or data you have

9 regarding the enforcement of unfair labor

10 practices in the post-hearing briefs.

11 But, if I could just ask a quick

12 follow up question, petitioners in this case have

13 pointed to a number of cases where there appears

14 to be a lack of enforcement.

15 If as you describe, employers must

16 first comply with the order while they're going

17 to court. What explains for the lack of

18 enforcement for the failure of the employers to

19 comply?

20 What happens if an employer does not

21 comply?

22 MR. THANGHONG: This one is a little


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1 bit in detail, but the law process, so we will

2 list this in our post-hearing submission.

3 MR. O'DONOVAN: Okay, thank you.

4 I get to ask the next question also.

5 Your submission, your pre-hearing brief rather

6 notes that the draft Labour Relations Act

7 provides protections for workers who are

8 preparing to form a labor union, preparing to

9 form a labor union at least is the English

10 translation.

11 The Government has indicated that the

12 provision is intended to protect preliminary

13 collective activity such as holding a meeting to

14 discuss work related concerns, for example.

15 However, preparing to form a labor

16 union may reasonably be read by courts very

17 narrowly.

18 In testimony at our last GSP hearing,

19 you noted that this would be clarified by the

20 Ministry of Labour when the draft LRA is

21 published.

22 Can I ask, how would this


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1 clarification be published and what would the

2 legal authority of that announcement for guidance

3 be?

4 MS. TECHAGOMAIN: The Ministry of

5 Labour is replacing the guideline that will be

6 instituted to all the related -- all interested

7 parties about this and how to form a labor union

8 and what it's to protect.

9 MR. THANGHONG: May I add something?

10 According to our preparations, this guideline

11 will, didn't mean it wasn't the preparation

12 process and then we will disseminate it to the

13 worker organization, the employer and also to the

14 court and to the police.

15 So, I believe you have the same

16 definition of preparation process.

17 MR. O'DONOVAN: And, what's the legal

18 authority of that document? Are courts required

19 to follow the interpretation in that guidance?

20 MR. THANGHONG: Yes, we would try to

21 keep the same way that we think on the

22 preparation of the formation of the labor union.


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1 And, also, the Officer from the Ministry of

2 Labour will be the witness in the case anyway.

3 And then we can explain it to the court.


5 MS. LAURY: Good afternoon. I have a

6 question about contract workers. In your pre-

7 hearing brief, you note that contract workers are

8 entitled to form or join a labor union of

9 contract workers.

10 But, your brief does not say anything

11 about joining existing workplace unions that may

12 include permanent employees.

13 Is the Government working on

14 addressing this gap? Furthermore, is the

15 Ministry of Labour considering any steps to

16 improve the enforcement of existing restrictions

17 on the multiple renewals of short term contracts?

18 MR. THANGHONG: Okay, ma'am, thank you

19 for your question.

20 I think that I have to, again, to

21 respond to this question in our post-hearing

22 submission.


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1 MR. KUNTAMAS: Also, the previous

2 question raised by USTR, we'll provide more

3 detail on that on the post-hearing. Thank you.

4 MR. ATHREYA: Good afternoon. I would

5 like to ask about the defamation law. The AFL-

6 CIO has pointed out for several years that the

7 anti-defamation laws in Thailand are sometimes

8 misused by employers to retaliate in cases of

9 collective negotiations and disputes.

10 And, one example of that that has been

11 raised in the past, the case of 14 migrant

12 workers on a poultry farm who were criminally

13 prosecuted for defamation after they filed

14 complaints with the Government about their

15 squalid living conditions.

16 Your pre-hearing brief makes it clear

17 that the Government of Thailand has chosen not to

18 accept technical suggestions for revisions to the

19 law that would strengthen and clarify protections

20 for workers.

21 The law as drafted leaves workers

22 vulnerable to these sorts of frivolous charges.


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1 Can you please tell us if there are any other

2 safeguards that the Government is contemplating

3 to ensure such cases cannot be used to intimidate

4 and harass workers?

5 MR. THANGHONG: Because the freedom of

6 speech under the Thai Constitution is under the

7 criminal law, there was a different judicial

8 system from the U.S.

9 And, we cannot amend the labor law in

10 different case, the procedure of criminal law.

11 So, it's up to the Judge.

12 And for the new cases, it's based

13 under the facts of the case. And we found that

14 most of the cases are being terminated and there

15 are new cases, we would like to get more details,

16 so additional information from the USTR so we can

17 investigate and put in our post-hearing brief.

18 MR. O'DONOVAN: A very quick follow up

19 question, please. You noted that this law is in

20 the criminal act, but in fact, there is also in

21 Section 98 of the Labour Relations Act, there is

22 a protection for workers for certain kinds of


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1 speech.

2 And, I'm wondering whether steps --

3 whether the Government considered steps to

4 strengthen protections under Section 98 of the

5 existing act?

6 MR. THANGHONG: I'm so sorry, but it's

7 a good question, but there's a lot of detail

8 about this one because we have to consider is

9 this Section including the court procedure. So,

10 maybe I will respond to this in the post-hearing

11 briefs.

12 MR. O'DONOVAN: Post-hearing briefs,

13 very well, thank you.

14 MR. HERFINDAHL: Great, well, that's

15 all the questions we have. So, I really

16 appreciate all the members of the Royal Thai

17 Delegation here today. So, thank you very much

18 for your participation today.

19 Now, if I can ask the next panel of

20 the AFL-CIO and Human Rights Watch to come

21 forward, please?

22 MS. DRAKE: Good afternoon. I thank


135

1 the USTR and the GSP Subcommittee for your

2 consideration of the AFL-CIO's petition regarding

3 Thailand's failure to afford internationally

4 recognized worker rights as is required to

5 receive GSP benefits.

6 Since the AFL-CIO last testified on

7 this subject, the Royal Government of Thailand

8 has not taken steps to afford workers their

9 internationally recognized worker rights.

10 It fails in both law and practice,

11 starting with the Constitution that allows the

12 fundamental right of association to be abrogated

13 for virtually any reason.

14 Public sector workers, agricultural

15 workers, teachers at private schools and migrant

16 and informal sector workers collectively about 75

17 percent of all workers in Thailand are forbidden

18 from forming unions.

19 And, by the way, the TLSC does support

20 the right of migrant workers to form and join

21 unions.

22 Even basic activities that help


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1 workers decide whether or not they want to

2 establish a union, such as holding a meeting or

3 protesting unsafe working conditions receive no

4 protections at all under current law.

5 If workers can manage to form a union,

6 Thai law allows undue interference in its

7 activities by limiting who can hold leadership

8 positions, nor does Thai law require employers to

9 bargain in good faith.

10 When workers seek redress for labor

11 violations, whether in court, at the Labour

12 Relations Committee or with the local Labour

13 Protection and Welfare Office, the result is

14 usually the same, the very officials who should

15 be upholding the law pressure workers to give up

16 and take a buyout instead.

17 This happened to 28 EC Automotive

18 workers and to the union president at LLIT

19 Thailand.

20 When workers resist pressure and get

21 a court judgment in their favor, the

22 reinstatement orders often go unfulfilled, as was


137

1 the case for 11 workers at Nakashima Rubber, for

2 2 at NTN Manufacturing and 66 at General Motors.

3 The threat of criminal defamation

4 continues to be used to restrict fundamental

5 worker rights.

6 Despite a favorable ruling for 14

7 workers at Thammakaset Farm, the employer is

8 appealing and continues to take new actions

9 against workers who speak up about poor

10 conditions and new investigations by prosecutors

11 are already under way.

12 The Supreme Court has approved the

13 firing of a union leader and severe restrictions

14 on freedom of expression at Auto Alliance

15 Thailand despite clearing workers of criminal

16 charges.

17 It likewise ratified Mitsubishi

18 Electric's grotesque and humiliating discipline

19 of members of the Team Union, discipline which

20 included four days of discipline and order

21 training at a military base, five days of

22 reflecting on their wrongdoing and one day in


138

1 which they were forced to clean other people's

2 homes.

3 The Government not only allows such

4 behavior, it assists in worker rights violations

5 when it denies freedom of association to public

6 employees, delays action, refuses to enforce its

7 own orders, pressures workers to give up their

8 legal rights, offers military bases for use by

9 employers and employs the police and military to

10 threaten and intimidate workers.

11 It has even been known to report to

12 employers the names of workers attempting to

13 register a union so that they can be fired before

14 receiving legal protections.

15 Of particular importance is an update

16 to a case that you may already know regarding the

17 State Railway Union of Thailand.

18 As you may recall, SRUT leaders

19 organized a health and safety action following a

20 train derailment that killed seven passengers.

21 Thirteen leaders were fired as a

22 result and seven were ordered to pay roughly half


139

1 a million dollars in fines plus interest to the

2 State Railway.

3 Though the fired workers were

4 eventually reinstated, the seven who were fined

5 never received back pay to which they were

6 entitled.

7 Last year, the Supreme Court of

8 Thailand affirmed the massive fines, now up to

9 about $650,000 or more, depending on how the

10 interest is calculated.

11 The union leaders tried to negotiate

12 with the railway to reduce the fines. But, on

13 November 20th, just last week, without any

14 notice, the railway began to deduct the fines

15 from the leaders' monthly checks.

16 After the deductions, some of the

17 leaders received as little as 300 Thai Baht or

18 about $9 for the month. That's equivalent to

19 Thailand's daily minimum wage.

20 The impact of these deductions is

21 devastating. It is no exaggeration to say that

22 $9 a month makes this a life or death issue.


140

1 That the Thai Government enforced this

2 illegitimate fine, one that both the

3 International Labor Organization and the National

4 Human Rights Commission of Thailand recommended

5 reversing while under a GSP review is astonishing

6 and it should be considered as evidence that the

7 Thai Government is not yet taking steps as

8 required to maintain GSP benefits.

9 In sum, the Government of Thailand has

10 not taken steps to afford internationally

11 recognized worker rights including the right of

12 association, the right to organize and bargain

13 collectively and the right to be free from forced

14 labor.

15 The AFL-CIO encourages the U.S.

16 Government to consider the targeted suspension of

17 tariff benefits for key exports to secure GSP

18 compliance.

19 I thank the Committee and would be

20 pleased to answer any questions you may have.

21 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you, Ms. Drake.

22 So, I think we'll turn to Mr. Sifton


141

1 and then ask questions of both of you after that.

2 MR. SIFTON: Great, thank you. Time

3 is at a premium, so I'll move quickly.

4 The panel has already received my pre-

5 hearing submissions, so I hope it speaks for

6 itself.

7 I'm instead going to just cut straight

8 to the heart of the matter. I think the question

9 before this panel and for U.S. trade

10 representatives in particular is, GSP privileges

11 under U.S. law, 19 USC 2462(b)(2)(g), in short,

12 is Thailand taking steps to afford

13 internationally recognized worker rights to

14 workers in the country?

15 And, the simple answer is no. The

16 Government has undertaken some reform on paper

17 and they've made some changes in implementation

18 and I'll be glad to talk about that during the

19 question period.

20 But, the truth is, on the grand scale,

21 on the macro scale, the bulk of recommended

22 reforms and necessary reforms that are needed to


142

1 make those eligibility requirements be met have

2 either stalled or not been implemented.

3 And, it's vital that none of us allow

4 ourselves to be misled by Thailand's long history

5 in this regard of recycled promises and foot

6 dragging and buck passing and elevation of words

7 over action, which is really what I see most in

8 the submission that the Government has provided

9 to you.

10 The submission demonstrates that

11 Thailand -- something that we've been saying for

12 a long time which is that Thailand is more

13 concerned with appearing as though it is

14 addressing labor issues than in actually address

15 labor rights issues.

16 This is a pattern and it has been a

17 pattern of Thailand for well over a decade. I

18 mean, the labor rights problems, especially with

19 foreign workers in the seafood and agricultural

20 sectors in particular has been a focus of

21 international scrutiny for well over a decade and

22 yet, even now, the government can't stop itself


143

1 from making the same kind of excuses that it's

2 been making for years.

3 This pre-hearing submission

4 essentially proves our argument. It's filled

5 with those same excuses we've been hearing for

6 years.

7 The Government says they haven't

8 passed a key new law, the LRA, because its Labour

9 Secretary, quote, suddenly resigned and because

10 of legal requirements regarding consultations

11 even though many other laws have passed the

12 National Assembly without those requirements

13 being met.

14 And, we're all for consultations, but

15 this sort of excuse just isn't being made in good

16 faith.

17 This highly misleading claim about

18 stakeholders being against foreign workers being

19 given the right to organize, that is simply an

20 untrue statement, unless the stakeholders the

21 Thai government is talking about are a very

22 narrow band of stakeholders that doesn't


144

1 represent all of the stakeholders in question.

2 And then, later, a sort of different

3 excuse for why foreign workers are not being

4 allowed to organize, simply, we are not -- we,

5 the government of Thailand, are not ready to set

6 those system responding to the labor unions

7 formed by migrant workers. We are not ready.

8 Which doesn't seem to be a

9 justification as much as an explanation.

10 So, look, we're all for consultations,

11 but let's be honest, Thailand is not a democracy

12 and the National Assembly is not a deliberative

13 legislative body. It does and will do whatever

14 the Prime Minister and the NCPO tell it to do.

15 And, I say this not to gratuitously

16 insult the Government of Thailand, but merely as

17 a fact. We want democracy to be restored to

18 Thailand.

19 But, in the meantime, the argument

20 that things don't happen because of the

21 deliberative process just doesn't -- it can't be

22 taken to be made in good faith.


145

1 My pre-hearing submission acknowledges

2 that the small pieces of supposed progress,

3 including plans and initiatives and other

4 announcements and changes in policies, especially

5 in the seafood sector have occurred.

6 But, my point in the presentation now

7 is to say that all of this taken together doesn't

8 add up to the type of change that I think the GSP

9 requirements require.

10 So, we share the AFL-CIO's view,

11 enough is enough. After a decade of scrutiny and

12 discussion, it's no longer plausible to suggest

13 that Thailand has been serious about labor rights

14 reforms.

15 And, it is, therefore, no longer

16 possible to plausibly argue that the country is

17 eligible for GSP benefits.

18 As an organization that's been focused

19 on these issues for well over a decade, Human

20 Rights Watch strongly urges you to revoke

21 Thailand's GSP status or use the targets approach

22 that the AFL-CIO's proposed.


146

1 It's important to send the Government

2 the message that they need to get serious for

3 reform. It's time for a tough message and not

4 just with words, but with actions.

5 And I am over and we can take your

6 questions.

7 MS. LAURY: Thank you both for your

8 testimony this afternoon.

9 I have a question for Ms. Drake on the

10 consultation process. The Government has noted

11 in its petition that it held four public

12 consultations during 2018 on the draft amendments

13 and incorporated feedback from stakeholder

14 groups.

15 Did your organization or any of its

16 partners participate in this public consultation?

17 If not, did they seek to provide feedback to the

18 Government through other mechanisms?

19 MS. DRAKE: So, our partners on the

20 ground have attempted to participate in public

21 consultations. And, the feedback that we've

22 gotten were that the consultations were


147

1 dysfunctional. They were not meaningful.

2 In particular, our partners pulled out

3 of the Labor Law Reform Subcommittee for the

4 specific reason that their input was not being

5 taken seriously and the Subcommittee seemed to be

6 stacked with non-democratic, non-representative

7 yellow unions under the influence of Government

8 and the employers and they felt that continued

9 participation would really give legitimacy to a

10 process that was not legitimate.

11 So, you know, we would suggest perhaps

12 that future consultations include only unions

13 that are democratic, include unions that are most

14 representative that could actually follow ILO

15 guidance for social dialogue, do something that's

16 better and that doesn't come across as a really

17 stacked, unfair process that's not looking for

18 real input.

19 MR. SIFTON: May I just add to that?

20 The suggestion that the Tripartite framework of

21 consultation has been some kind of fully

22 consultative process with the relevant


148

1 stakeholders is what I meant by saying

2 disingenuous.

3 That is just not the case. There are

4 huge numbers of stakeholders who feel excluded

5 from that or who feel that it is not an adequate

6 forum to take their concerns seriously.

7 So, when the Thai Government proposes

8 here that they have talked to everybody and 92

9 percent think, you know, foreign workers, bad

10 idea, that just seems to be an inaccurate polling

11 of the relevant stakeholders.

12 MS. ATHREYA: Thank you.

13 The next question is for Mr. Sifton.

14 I'm going to cite from your pre-hearing brief,

15 Human Rights Watch noted that the Government has,

16 quote, attempted to overhaul the fishing industry

17 monitoring control and management regimes and

18 establish new interagency inspection frameworks

19 for the fishing sector.

20 Can you tell us more about why you

21 feel those reforms have failed? Have not been

22 effective? And whether there are any reforms


149

1 that have succeeded in mitigating the labor

2 exploitation in this sector?

3 MR. SIFTON: Yes, I mean, I think we

4 should give credit where credit is due and the

5 fishing registration process, for instance, was a

6 step forward to ensure the fishers were legally

7 registered under their own names.

8 And, I think that that had an impact

9 in checking the number of fisher folk on board

10 ships makes it impossible for the captains of

11 those ships to, well, frankly, kill the workers

12 and dump them overboard and then return to port.

13 When you have to account for your crew now.

14 It also -- the requirements also mean

15 that ships have to make landfall more often,

16 which is a good thing. It allows workers to

17 escape from traffic forced labor more easily.

18 You can't escape when you're at sea.

19 But, unfortunately, there was flip

20 side to it. The pink card registration process

21 which is now over, but there's this new boat

22 captain's sort of the ship log process had a


150

1 perhaps unintended impact which is, now, more

2 forcefully links a fisherman or fisher person

3 with a crew and a ship and it makes it much more

4 difficult for them to leave that employer because

5 now they are essentially bound on paper to that

6 ship.

7 And, the Government of Thailand

8 probably didn't intend that to happen, but that

9 is what happened. And so, a lot of workers have

10 told us, and we quote this in our new report,

11 that they felt it impossible to leave abusive

12 conditions, even when they made landfall because

13 they were essentially made into illegal workers

14 if they left that fishing vessel.

15 So, that was sort of an unintended --

16 Now, you asked what could they do? I

17 mean, look, there's a bunch of things we've been

18 recommending about implementation, not just these

19 legal reforms because, again, the Government's

20 submission goes into length about all the legal

21 reforms.

22 But, there's a lot of things about


151

1 implementation and when I see that the Labour

2 Ministry, you know, isn't -- doesn't even want to

3 be involved in the implementation and enforcement

4 of the forced labor amendments that are being

5 proposed, you know, that's a big concern to us.

6 And, while I'm on the subject of

7 forced labor, let me just say one quick thing, in

8 terms of implementation versus reform, Thailand

9 has a long history of ratifying agreements,

10 whether it's the convention against torture or

11 the ILO convention protocols for 29 on forced

12 labor and then not doing anything to implement

13 their terms.

14 So, nobody should be fooled by the

15 argument like, well, okay, Thailand has ratified

16 such and such a convention. Until you actually

17 see the implementing legislation on the books and

18 then the relevant entities are then enforcing it

19 by forming inspections, prosecuting people who

20 are not in compliance and actually doing things

21 that make the law have meaning as opposed to just

22 being a piece of paper, then it's just a promise


152

1 on paper.

2 MR. KARAWA: This question is for Ms.

3 Drake. It's regarding defamation and I think you

4 alluded to it in your testimony.

5 Does the recent decision in the former

6 custody of the poultry case in which the workers

7 were held harmless alleviate any concerns

8 regarding the issue of defamation?

9 Does this decision offer or set a

10 precedent for other workers seeking legal

11 redress? If not, what legal redress or policy

12 changes would be needed to curtail the abuse of

13 criminal defamation laws to reflect liabilities?

14 MS. DRAKE; Thank you for your

15 question.

16 The case actually doesn't offer much

17 confidence that things are changing. I would

18 first note that the case is not final. It's

19 currently under appeal.

20 So, the workers that appear to have

21 won, you know, may not keep that status and the

22 precedential values is, therefore, questionable.


153

1 In addition, the company has launched

2 additional lawsuits alleging defamation against

3 the Migrant Workers Rights Network, against Andy

4 Hall, against others, there are other workers

5 that are currently under investigation, as I

6 noted.

7 And, defamation is still being used to

8 silence civil society more generally. I have

9 some articles that I brought that I'd like to

10 submit for the record.

11 But, certainly, even though the

12 workers won their case, there are cases now

13 against the activists who made short video tapes

14 of those workers who now supposedly aren't doing

15 anything wrong but those who videotaped them and

16 shared them on social media are now being charged

17 with doing something wrong.

18 And, defamation is also being used

19 just against regular civil society protests, for

20 instance, against a group who is working to

21 protest a housing development being built in part

22 of a forest and it's being used against them.


154

1 So, I'd like to submit those, if

2 that's okay.

3 And, in terms of what could be done,

4 there's a whole variety of things that could be

5 done and I think you all and your questions to

6 the previous panel alluded to some of those

7 issues.

8 You know, just on the basic level of

9 labor rights, you know, labor -- concerted

10 protected activity could be totally excluded from

11 defamation, both in terms of criminal and civil.

12 Thailand could also institute what are

13 known as anti-SLAPP statutes and SLAPP is an

14 acronym for Strategic Lawsuits Against Public

15 Participation.

16 And so, if there was an anti-SLAPP

17 statute, it could say this is not appropriate to

18 use defamation as a way to intimidate, to

19 threaten, to silence workers, whether they are

20 already in a union or whether they're acting

21 together in concerted activity and may be forming

22 a union in the future.


155

1 The defamation laws in general could

2 be tightened, it could be decriminalized. So,

3 there are a lot of things that could be done, but

4 we think now is not the time to say that things

5 are getting better just because there happens to

6 be a positive outcome so far in the Thammakaset

7 Farm case.

8 MR. PAJUSI: I have a question for Mr.

9 Sifton. In your pre-hearing submission, you

10 noted, you urged the Government to pass a

11 standalone forced labor law.

12 Can you tell me what, in your view,

13 are the most critical changes in law or

14 regulation or practice that a separate forced

15 labor law would help to address?

16 MR. SIFTON: I mean, we say standalone

17 because the sense that it would be an amendment

18 to another law is part of what feeds into this

19 problem where an entire ministry absolves itself

20 of responsibility of enforcing the law.

21 So, how it gets passed has an impact

22 on that.


156

1 The Department of Labor protects --

2 the Department for Labor Protection and Welfare

3 needs to staff up and be part of any enforcement

4 of a law against forced labor.

5 But, if it gets passed as an amendment

6 for something else, it's going to -- what's going

7 to happen is exactly what the Department of Labor

8 Protection and Welfare wants which is for the

9 police to have the primary role in enforcing the

10 law which just means, you know, raids of brothels

11 and things like that and not an effort to address

12 some of the underlying problems, trafficking and

13 the brokers role.

14 And, just not seed the whole matter to

15 the police.

16 But, the other issue is about labor

17 penalties which are much lower. I mean, really,

18 if you want to get people to follow the law, then

19 penalties are an important aspect of it.

20 And, I think a standalone law that

21 specifies key strong penalties for those who

22 engage in forced labor and doesn't, you know,


157

1 focus only on one part of the problem like

2 traffickers but focuses on the employers, too.

3 That's a very important aspect as well.

4 I would just add, I mean, I don't know

5 how you -- you can't print the whole thing in the

6 Federal Register, but our recent report, Hidden

7 Chains, published this year has a whole litany of

8 recommendations specifically about this issue.

9 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you.

10 So, we have a number of other

11 questions for you that I think in the interest of

12 time we'll submit to you in writing and that we

13 would request that you would respond to in post-

14 hearing briefs.

15 So, thank you so much to both of you


17 MR. SIFTON: Thank you.

18 MS. DRAKE: Thank you.

19 MR. HERFINDAHL: So, if I could now

20 ask the -- Mr. Lamar and Mr. Heffner to come

21 forward, please, for our third panel?

22 MR. HEFFNER: Good afternoon. Members


158

1 of the GSP Subcommittee, thank you for your time

2 today. I am Douglas Heffner of Drinker, Biddle &

3 Reath, counsel to the Dole Package Foods, LLC and

4 Dole Thailand, or for ease of reference, just

5 Dole.

6 Dole respectfully requests that USTR

7 not revoke Thailand's eligibility for GSP

8 benefits in response to allegations raised by

9 AFL-CIO regarding potential labor right abuses in

10 Thailand.

11 Dole agrees that the U.S. Government

12 should exercise reasonable measures to ensure

13 that its trading partners enforce international

14 labor rights standards.

15 Nevertheless, Dole believes that the

16 U.S. should coordinate with the Thai Government

17 to address specific instances of unfair labor

18 practices rather than withholding GSP benefits.

19 In previous cases, USTR has revoked

20 GSP benefits due to very serious labor rights

21 abuses such as case of Bangladesh.

22 Any labor right abuses that may exist


159

1 in Thailand are limited in scope and certainly do

2 not rise to the level that warrants withdrawal of

3 GSP benefits.

4 Instead, Dole believes that labor

5 right abuses should be investigated and remedied

6 in a narrower manner that are not as egregious as

7 GSP revocation.

8 Dole respectfully requests that USTR

9 address any concerns that it may have by working

10 directly with the RTG to resolve any labor rights

11 issues, and specific context in which they

12 appear.

13 This targeted approach would allow

14 USTR and RTG to address potential labor right

15 violations in the offending businesses or

16 industries while abstaining from disrupting the

17 activities of other GSP beneficiary businesses or

18 industries that are fully compliant with labor

19 laws that otherwise have no GSP compliance

20 concerns in which benefit U.S. companies.

21 In addition, as discussed in detail by

22 the RTG in its testimony, the RTG has addressed


160

1 the issue by introducing amendments to its labor

2 right laws to ensure that they conform to

3 internationally recognized standards.

4 I won't get into any more because you

5 heard pretty much what they had to say about

6 that. But, it is moving along, although there

7 appears to be some delay.

8 Moreover, withdrawing countrywide GSP

9 duty preference eligibility for Thai imports and

10 making them less cost competitive would most

11 likely not benefit other poor and developing

12 countries.

13 Instead, and we've said this before,

14 the loss of GSP duty preferences for Dole's

15 products would likely result in the shift of

16 production to China which would likely increase

17 exports to the United States.

18 China competes fiercely with Thai

19 exports, it already dominates many of Thailand's

20 traditional export markets despite GSP treatment

21 for Thailand.

22 For the United States, the net result


161

1 of eliminating GSP benefits for Thailand for

2 these products would be a broadening of the

3 United States substantial trade deficit with

4 China and likely -- and little change in trade

5 with other GSP users.

6 Likewise, the possible shift from Thai

7 products to Chinese products could affect the

8 current sourcing of U.S. products including those

9 purchased by Dole Thailand from the United

10 States.

11 Continuing Thailand's GSP benefits

12 will maintain support for a valued trading

13 partner and will benefit the Thai economy.

14 Agriculture and food production, as

15 you heard earlier, is a primary industry in

16 Thailand and GSP benefits have played a

17 significant role in the growth of Thai exports.

18 The potential price competition that

19 would ensue due to loss of GSP would immediately

20 impact jobs and harm the economy in regions where

21 Dole Thailand has production operations.

22 In conclusion, the continuation of


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1 Thailand's GSP benefits is of particular interest

2 to Dole and other U.S. companies that supply

3 fruit to Dole Thailand for use in the production

4 of various packaged food products.

5 Because many of Dole's products are

6 subsequently re-exported to the United States and

7 other countries, if Thailand GSP benefits are

8 revoked, U.S. demand for Dole products is likely

9 to decrease.

10 In turn, this will result in reduced

11 demand for fruits supplied by U.S. companies,

12 thereby harming U.S. companies.

13 Thank you and with time, I'll close

14 there.

15 MR. LAMAR: Thank you for the

16 opportunity to testify today. I am the Executive

17 Vice President of the American Apparel and

18 Footwear Association and I'm also testifying on

19 behalf of the Travel Goods Association, the

20 Accessories Council and the Council of Fashion

21 Designers of America.

22 Together, our members span the


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1 industry of U.S. companies that make, market and

2 sell travel goods which we define broadly as

3 luggage, handbags, backpacks, briefcases and

4 related fashion accessories.

5 We are appearing today to urge that

6 Thailand not lose its GSP eligibility status with

7 respect to travel goods and related fashion

8 accessories.

9 GSP benefits for U.S. travel goods and

10 accessory imports from Thailand have benefitted

11 American businesses, workers and consumers.

12 These benefits will continue to be important in

13 the years to come.

14 We're sensitive to the underlying

15 worker rights problems and we'll do everything we

16 can to encourage the Royal Thai Government to

17 improve its worker rights practices.

18 To the power of global value chains,

19 the travel goods industry supports approximately

20 100,000 U.S. workers in such diverse areas as

21 design, compliance, marketing, IT and retail.

22 Although there are some manufacturing


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1 activities which are supported by imports,

2 there's richly no large scale commercial travel

3 goods production in the United States nor has

4 there been for decades.

5 At more than 99 percent import

6 penetration by volume, the travel goods industry

7 today is largely dependent on China.

8 Until July 2017, when President Trump

9 declared all eligible U.S. travel goods imports

10 duty free from all GSP countries, China share of

11 the U.S. import market was 85 percent.

12 Companies in the travel goods

13 industries had few viable options for the large

14 scale commercial production of travel goods

15 outside of China.

16 Much of the industrial capacity, not

17 just for final assembly, but also for materials

18 and components have been concentrated there for

19 years.

20 Making travel goods eligible for GSP

21 duty free benefits in countries such as Thailand

22 changed all that.


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1 Our members pay a high tax on travel

2 goods imports. In June 2017, travel goods were

3 assessed an effective average duty rate of 12.7

4 percent with most duties between 17.6 percent and

5 20 percent.

6 Compare this to the average for all

7 goods imported into the United States of 1.4

8 percent.

9 Duty free access under the GSP gave

10 the industry it's real -- first real opportunity

11 to diversity away from China and to build factory

12 capacity and skills in other countries and to

13 save on our crushing duty burden.

14 And, the U.S. industry has taken

15 advantage of that opportunity.

16 Since 2017, China's share of the U.S.

17 travel goods import market has dropped 3

18 percentage points to 82 percent and it continues

19 to drop.

20 These duty savings now mean that

21 companies can invest in the development of

22 factory capacity in countries other than China.


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1 As one would expect, the drop in

2 China's market share has been accompanied by an

3 increase in the market share of GSP countries.

4 The percentage of U.S. imports of

5 travel goods from GSP countries has grown

6 significantly in the past few months from 5

7 percent of imports before GSP to just 9 percent

8 today and it's still growing.

9 Consumers are also poised to see

10 benefits, lower duty bills mean companies can

11 pass on the savings in the form of lower prices

12 or invest in innovation and design to deliver

13 high value products at the same price point.

14 Of course, companies can also return

15 this duty savings to shareholders in the form of

16 dividends or employees in the form of new hires

17 and salary increases.

18 Based on data from the first nine

19 months of 2018, U.S. companies importing travel

20 goods are likely to save almost $200 million in

21 duties in 2018 thanks to GSP, savings that will

22 translate in the lower prices for U.S. consumers


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1 and more jobs for U.S. workers.

2 In the past few months, GSP's ability

3 to help companies diversify from China has taken

4 on added significance as the Administration has

5 now included all travel goods on times three of

6 the China Section 301 punitive tariffs.

7 Starting in September, the high volume

8 of travel goods still being imported from China

9 faced a 10 percent additional tariff and this

10 rises to 25 percent in 33 days.

11 To see how dramatic this impact is,

12 let's look back at the tariff rates that I

13 mentioned before.

14 In June 2017, the average tariff rate

15 as 12.7 percent. In July 2017, when the

16 proclamation for travel goods for all the GSP

17 countries took effect, the average rate dropped

18 to 11 percent and has remained below 12 percent

19 for every month through August 2018 and has even

20 dropped below 11 percent on three occasions.

21 Yet, in September 2018, when the new

22 10 percent China 301 rate took effect for just


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1 the last six days of the month, the tariff rate

2 shot back up to 12.2 percent.

3 There is no question that China

4 tariffs have now offset gains companies were

5 starting to make through the GSP program. This

6 will get many times worse in just a few weeks as

7 the punitive tariff rates more than double to 25

8 percent.

9 This is bad enough as it introduces

10 new costs that are not easily absorbed by the

11 supply chains that already operate on razor thin

12 margins. But removing GSP from Thailand,

13 especially since other top travel -- GSP travel

14 goods suppliers are also facing GSP reviews would

15 be devastating to the industry and the American

16 companies, workers and consumers its serves.

17 Let me share some very specific

18 Thailand information in the seconds that I have

19 left.

20 While we're sympathetic to the

21 concerns raised with respect to workers rights

22 problems in Thailand, and again, urge the Royal


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1 Thai Government to improve its worker rights

2 practices, we don't support removal of GSP

3 benefits for travel goods from Thailand.

4 Thailand has long been in the luggage

5 business, although very small, the addition of

6 travel goods to the GSP program for Thailand back

7 on the map as a major supplier making it the

8 seventh largest supplier of travel goods under

9 GSP.

10 Taking -- talking with one small

11 luggage manufacturer, for example, they employ

12 about 12 workers with a significant amount of

13 their sourcing from Thailand.

14 We asked them what would happen if

15 they had to withdraw and they said, withdrawal of

16 GSP benefits would be devastating for the

17 companies. They would either have to charge

18 higher prices and lose business or try to absorb

19 the higher duties by laying off workers.

20 I think in the interest of time, I'll

21 stop here. I just thank you for the opportunity

22 to testify and just welcome any questions you may


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1 have.

2 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you, I think

3 we'll just ask a couple questions and submit the

4 rest to you for response in writing in the post-

5 hearing brief.

6 So, my first question is for Mr.

7 Heffner. Many of the labor rights issues that

8 have been discussed in this review appear to

9 originate from a lack of legal protections and a

10 general failure to effectively enforce laws.

11 Yet, in your submission and remarks

12 today, you state that these are isolated

13 incidents. Could you elaborate on why you're

14 convinced that these are isolated incidents that

15 can be addressed individually rather than

16 systematically?

17 MR. HEFFNER: Well, all I can say is,

18 on behalf of Dole, we believe that what we do is

19 the right thing in Thailand.

20 And, no, I don't have any perspective

21 other than that, other than their perspective to

22 say that they believe that the labor system in


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1 Thailand is not -- does not suffer from a lot of

2 problems.

3 So, that's all I can say as far as

4 that goes.

5 MS. HELM: This question is for Mr.

6 Lamar. American Apparel and Footwear Association

7 has actively worked with governments around the

8 world to address worker rights concerns.

9 Do you have similar concerns in

10 Thailand? If so, have you provided

11 recommendations to the Government of Thailand

12 regarding its pending labor law reform?

13 MR. LAMAR: We haven't provided

14 specific recommendations, but it's something that

15 we're looking at doing and will probably be

16 weighing in, either ourselves or in concert with

17 other groups within the org.

18 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you. So, I

19 think we'll submit our additional questions in

20 writing.

21 But, I want to thank you both so much



172

1 Now, moving forward in the agenda,

2 we'd like to turn to Georgia, so I'd like to ask

3 the Georgian delegation to come forward at this

4 time, please?

5 MR. BERIDZE: Hi.

6 MR. HERFINDAHL: Hi.

7 You may proceed when you're ready.

8 MS. JGERENAIA: May I start? Okay,

9 thank you.

10 Good afternoon, distinguished members

11 of GSP Subcommittee. It's my pleasure to

12 represent and to deliver and to update you about

13 the recent developments in Georgia's labor

14 institutionalization.

15 On behalf of the Ministry of Labour

16 Health and Social Affairs and new issues as well,

17 because we became the bigger one of the Ministry

18 which covers internally displaced persons from

19 occupied territories as well.

20 Especially, I am representing the head

21 of the Department of Labour and Employment Policy

22 and I would like to update you about the


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1 achievements on labor, especially labor

2 inspectorates and developments.

3 But, a few words about reforming and

4 before the petition -- when one petition was

5 submitted in 2010, the picture of about Georgia,

6 it was absolutely dramatically changed since 2010

7 when the paradoxical issue was the Ministry of

8 Labour was holding the name of labor but there

9 was not any structural unit responsible for labor

10 policy.

11 And, moreover, since 2006, the labor

12 inspection was abolished and then since 2015 when

13 we started to reform labor, to implement labor

14 reform, we established labor inspection first and

15 the process of this is ongoing and developing.

16 And, I would like to touch in my very

17 brief delivery some information about the major

18 and the crucial points about the developing of

19 labor inspectorates, about the institutional

20 level and legislation and the implementation

21 establishing labor mediation and social dialogue

22 -- development of social dialogue and the


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1 Tripartite which was established.

2 And based on this Tripartite, a social

3 dialogue. All this reform was discussed with our

4 social partners and engagement of trade union and

5 employers representatives.

6 So, it was very intensive and all

7 amendments which was passed and submitted to

8 Parliament, it was very intensive.

9 And, through the Tripartite Commission

10 it was adopted.

11 And, I would like to draw your

12 attention about the new law which was adopted in

13 March. The Commission held the safety which

14 defines the functions and duties and

15 responsibilities not only for employers and

16 employees but the fact other persons and

17 representatives.

18 So, for employees and the companies

19 and we are operating in three dimensions. What

20 is the very strongest of this system the sanction

21 mechanism, the first step is warning.

22 We are issuing not only verbal but a


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1 written warning and giving them reasonable time

2 for amends and for remedy the labor condition.

3 And then, after the -- we're

4 monitoring after the -- when it expires, the

5 reasonable time. We are re-monitoring the

6 companies and then we are giving sanction.

7 And, we have some statistics. Despite

8 the fact that we started implementing mandatory

9 inspections since the 1st August. And, we have

10 the results and some findings and pictures.

11 Because in the beginning it was

12 started from the state program as a piloting.

13 And, the first mandatory mandates that the power

14 was giving for trafficking identification for the

15 trafficking, the companies.

16 And, we still -- we are maintaining

17 this and we have quite intensive cooperation with

18 criminal police.

19 And, unfortunately, there was not any

20 case, there is no case of trafficking issues.

21 But, they still -- what was until the

22 end of this year, the Commission health and


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1 safety laws will cover the limited sector which

2 is the criteria of this sector was the increased

3 harm and hazardous working conditions and which

4 covers almost 11 sectors, including metallurgy,

5 construction, electricity, gas transports.

6 And, we have the list, according to

7 the adopted new law was issued and it improved

8 this resolution.

9 And we have this working -- this list

10 of hazardous waste which is covered according to

11 this new law.

12 But, it's not the last, I would like

13 to stress and draw your attention about the

14 future, the plan, the new draft with a new bill

15 which now is in the process of Congress and

16 discussion at the Parliament and which is

17 initiated by the members of Parliament.

18 And, this draft law covers not only

19 the all private sectors, but including the public

20 sectors as well.

21 And, the powers will be strengthened

22 of labor inspectorate, it will be strengthened.


177

1 And, the sanction mechanism when it comes to

2 prior notification, they will be removed.

3 And, now the current law, the

4 occupation health and safety law, they are

5 removed the prior notification and when entering

6 selective based companies, there is no necessity

7 to get a permission and they can enter this

8 annually approve the list of companies which is

9 not public for those companies which is intended

10 to be inspected.

11 And then, the second and re-monitoring

12 based on to which we are planning -- we are

13 implementing the second inspection. And, based

14 on which, we are imposing sanction and/or et

15 cetera.

16 And, what the main issue is, we have

17 the power, one of the strongest power of labor

18 inspection which was defined by the law is the

19 suspension of working activities.

20 And, it is only in the case when it's

21 critical and noncompliance, extreme

22 noncompliance. Because we define based on


178

1 criteria a substantial noncompliance, no

2 substantial noncompliance and the critical

3 noncompliance.

4 When it comes to critical

5 noncompliance, then we have the power to suspend

6 the working -- the activity, we close these

7 concrete, this exactly this place and then go to

8 court for a process to get the confirmation.

9 This is the very brief, if I have

10 time, I would cover all this by questions because

11 I know you are, even for me, it's very -- the big

12 issue and what we have seen is developing,

13 incrementally developing the process.

14 What we got from employers who had

15 been very resistant in the beginning, but having

16 this experience based on monitoring and based on

17 engagement of social partners, this process and

18 public events and campaigns, they not only accept

19 -- they not only accepting, they focus on health

20 and safety issues, but they are -- they have the

21 willingness to be trained properly.

22 And, because the most issue is how to


179

1 train, how to outreach about the new regulations

2 because we are committed according to association

3 agreement, the chapter effects the third -- this

4 section defines the -- all labor issues regarding

5 the gender equality, labor rights and

6 occupational health and safety issues.

7 And, when it comes to labor rights, we

8 -- the process of preparation of amendments of

9 labor legislation, especially labor code, is in

10 the process at Department. And, which means that

11 this amendment will define the supervisory body

12 who will take the power and enforce the mechanism

13 on labor rights as well.

14 And, the discussion on the labor

15 rights, enforcement of labor rights mechanism

16 will be after this draft will be submitted to the

17 Government and then according to procedures.

18 And, the -- as an institutional level,

19 the labor inspectorate, so far, we have now 45.

20 The inspection, the Department was established in

21 2015 and which consists of two division, one --

22 the one division composed of all labor inspectors


180

1 and the second division is responsible for

2 reporting and monitoring, analyzing the

3 consequences of inspections.

4 So, for inspection and on the next

5 step which will be discussed with social partners

6 is how to shift and how to begin the independent

7 body of labor inspectors.

8 Now, this Department is operating

9 under the Ministry as a structural unit, as a

10 department. But, as centralized -- which is

11 centralized but and they don't -- we don't have

12 the representatives to regional level.

13 And, in order to reach the goal

14 effective and fully implemented, labor

15 inspection, we do need to establish and to create

16 independent agency which is called -- a legal

17 entity under the Ministry.

18 And, having the representative at the

19 regional level.

20 And, what we are planning, based to

21 that, we plan to double the number of labor

22 inspectors.


181

1 And, we are in the process of capacity

2 building of labor inspectorate. Recently, we

3 recreated additional 20, approximate 20

4 inspectors and this process which has to be

5 highlighted, I think, the Commission, we have

6 invited social partners and they -- we engage the

7 very intensively in the processing of audits to

8 make it transparency.

9 What kind of inspectors we are

10 recruiting based on professions, qualifications

11 which needs to be of scale as well.

12 I'm sorry, I'm ready to answer your

13 questions. Thank you for your patience.


15 for your testimony.

16 MS. ATHREYA: Thank you so much and

17 good afternoon.

18 The first question is we just want to

19 clarify, we understand that a new edition of the

20 Georgian Constitution will take effect following

21 the inauguration of a new president and that

22 Article 26 of the new Constitution states the


182

1 right to safe working conditions and other labor

2 rights shall be protected by the organic law.

3 Can you explain what effect that will

4 have on this occupation safety and health law

5 that was just passed? And also any other

6 implications on current labor laws?

7 MS. JGERENAIA: Thank you very much

8 for this very important question.

9 When the law which is adopted and

10 which is called a law on occupational health and

11 safety and which will become an organic law means

12 that to give them more guarantee for -- we have

13 the labor code which is organic law and which is

14 considered as a high legitimacy.

15 And, the occupational health and

16 safety law as well will be high legitimacy and

17 which gives guarantee from the any changes and

18 gives more -- to maintain all these -- it defines

19 the norms which will be reflected.

20 And, this organic law, I mentioned

21 about this, this new bill which is now in the

22 discussion and which expands the scope of the


183

1 law.

2 The organic law will cover not only

3 limited sector, I have with me the list of these

4 limited sectors, even though this is quite a long

5 list, this is a hazardous working list.

6 But, it will cover all private sectors

7 and additionally, private and public sectors as

8 well because we are committed to according to

9 association agreements which says that one

10 directive according to which the law was adopted.

11 It defines that this directive must

12 cover all public and private sectors. And, the

13 supervisory body has to have the power to inspect

14 based on the having the sanction mechanism

15 penalties which is proportionate.

16 And, I have to mention one issue, even

17 if we impose the sanction, it's not a guarantee

18 that fines and penalties will -- the fines will

19 be paid by employers, but if they don't remedy

20 situation, it doesn't mean that it's enough.

21 We -- what is the additional power for

22 labor inspectorate is to suspend before this


184

1 condition will not be corrected and not be in

2 compliance with international standards.

3 And, this is the one of the -- which

4 is defined even in this current law.

5 MR. LAURY: Thank you for your

6 testimony.

7 What steps is the Government taking to

8 address Georgian businesses concerns that

9 inspectors do not abuse their authority or

10 undermine the competitiveness of Georgian

11 businesses to excessive regulation and

12 bureaucracy?

13 MS. JGERENAIA: A Georgian business

14 specialty, our social partners, our employers

15 association, business association are very fully

16 engaged. We have fully engaged not only in the

17 working process, but in Tripartite Commission.

18 When the bill draft was submitted and

19 discussed, as I said in the beginning, they had

20 the resistance, but they have now more -- they

21 are more friendly and they are more engaged in

22 the developing process.


185

1 And, we have quite intensive

2 cooperation.

3 I have to mention about the fact that

4 Tripartite Commission has released the agenda for

5 two years and we have the issues which is

6 initiated by social partners for businesses as

7 well.

8 And, they -- what they are initiating

9 and initiated so far is arbitration to establish

10 the arbitration and establish and develop code

11 system, especially labor direction, labor code

12 which is not characterized for Georgian case.

13 And, which will be discussed, but as

14 a position of Government, it will not an

15 alternative for labor inspectorate, it will be

16 additional institution. It's like labor

17 mediation which is quite -- which since 2014 it's

18 working and operating and the businesses is quite

19 I would summarize this question, they are quite

20 in close cooperation with Government and not only

21 Government, but trade union as well.

22 MR. O'DONOVAN: Can I ask a quick


186

1 follow up? Just a quick follow up question to

2 that.

3 In speaking with Georgian business

4 associations, the private sector has expressed

5 reservations about, to put it indelicately, about

6 the corruption of inspectors in the past.

7 MS. JGERENAIA: Yes.

8 MR. O'DONOVAN: But, what steps is the

9 inspectorate taking today to ensure that those

10 same kinds of issues don't happen again?

11 MS. JGERENAIA: Thank you very much

12 for this question.

13 It was the big concern that it was one

14 of the big obstacles and that's the reason why it

15 was abolished in 2006, it was a corrupted system.

16 But, after abolishing this system, the

17 -- some of the function covering the labor

18 inspection was disseminated in different state

19 bodies.

20 Now, we are collecting and we are

21 trying -- we established a working group with

22 representatives from each of these state entities


187

1 in order to not overlap, in order to not

2 duplicate the sanction mechanism. And, we are

3 working in this direction.

4 When it comes to corruption, the first

5 step which was taken by government, we invited

6 them in recruiting process and they participated

7 in the recruiting process, having -- and we, in

8 composition -- as a composition of labor

9 inspectorate, the first.

10 The second is they have -- they will

11 be equipped with camera as a transparency and

12 they have rights and to have complaint if there

13 is any breeches of law. But, thanks to these

14 practices, we didn't have this.

15 And, we have, according to this law,

16 we have the counsel. We're going to have the

17 counsel of negotiation about inspection process.

18 And, not only inspection, the results

19 of inspection. But, how to select which company

20 will be based on criteria, will be inspected.

21 And, that's why this is the one of the

22 transparency which was not in previous, in the


188

1 past.


3 MS. JGERENAIA: Thank you.

4 MR. KARAWA: Thank you again for your

5 testimony.

6 My question is related to the law of

7 OSH or Occupation Safety that was passed earlier

8 this year. It does not protect rights related to

9 freedom of association, employee wages and hours,

10 forced labor, child labor and employment

11 discrimination.

12 How will the Government protect these

13 labor rights?

14 MS. JGERENAIA: Thank you for your

15 question.

16 Now, I would start with this

17 discrimination, and the bill in draft which the

18 amendments of the legislation, it was submitted

19 to the Parliament and it relates to

20 discrimination cases.

21 Not only the pre-contractual, but in

22 contractual and to avoid and properly beat


189

1 discrimination. And, this draft is now in the

2 process of discussion in the Parliament.

3 When it comes to the labor rights,

4 whether it will be covered, the labor inspection,

5 Government of Georgia, after signing the

6 association agreement, which means that to

7 approximate the local legislation to European

8 legislation, means that we have to follow all

9 these norms, which is defined, all these

10 directives, according to agenda and the alliance.

11 And the approach of Government is incrementally

12 approach.

13 And, as I mentioned, the next step, we

14 are preparing the amendments, the package which

15 relates to labor rights and which gives the power

16 and, as a supervisory body, as a labor

17 inspection, to enforce this mechanism labor

18 rights.

19 Especially, it relates part-time work,

20 which now the legislation on labor is silent.

21 There is no definition about full-time and part-

22 time. That's why we are working on this to


190

1 implement this.

2 But, in addition, I would emphasize

3 that we are working on a regulation and pact

4 assessment as well with trade union. And this is

5 the evidence why we are working. Each new norms

6 must be assessed as a cost-benefit and cost-

7 effective way. And it needs to be assessed on

8 impact how to react and influence on the economic

9 condition. That's why we have cooperated with

10 GIZ, an international organization.

11 And, having this opportunity, we did

12 not have on some of them a directive, we're going

13 to have impact assessment to submit the draft

14 with arguments and with evidence and the

15 consequences.


17 for your testimony and your responses to all our

18 questions today. We'll also have some additional

19 questions for you if you could answer them in

20 writing in the post-hearing brief.

21 MS. JGERENAIA: It's my pleasure, sir.

22 MR. HERFINDAHL: Thank you so much.


191

1 MS. JGERENAIA: Thank you.

2 MR. HERFINDAHL: Now, if I could ask

3 AFL-CIO to come back up, please?

4 MR. O'DONOVAN: We should also

5 congratulate you on your presidential election of

6 yesterday.

7 MR. HERFINDAHL: Go ahead.

8 MR. FINNEGAN: Thank you very much.

9 Thank you, my name is --

10 MR. HERFINDAHL: Is the mic on?

11 MR. FINNEGAN: My name is Brian

12 Finnegan and I'm here on behalf of the AFL-CIO

13 and today we are joined by Raisa Liperteliani who

14 is the Deputy Vice President of the GTUC, so I

15 think we can take advantage of that.

16 We're here with the AFL-CIO to explain

17 why we firmly believe that the Government of

18 Georgia continues to fail to ensure that workers

19 can freely exercise their internationally

20 recognized labor rights.

21 In 2006, the Government of Georgia

22 abolished its labor inspectorate. Twelve years


192

1 later, the country still lacks a functioning

2 labor inspectorate.

3 We recognize that a new, very limited

4 labor inspection law has recently gone into

5 effect and that a list of dangerous work places

6 have been approved with social dialogue.

7 However, we must note that these

8 piecemeal steps take place in the context of

9 Government actions that tell both employers and

10 workers that labor rights will not be protected

11 by the Government when acting as a Government or

12 respected when the Government is acting as an

13 employer.

14 Georgia's failure to protect labor

15 rights is broad and systematic. Unions are

16 routinely destroyed through Government action and

17 inaction.

18 The cumulative effect of Georgia's

19 laws, policies and actions is the everyday denial

20 of the internationally recognized workers rights

21 we're here to discuss today.

22 Of the 14 cases of denial of freedom


193

1 of association tracked over the eight years since

2 our original submission, 9 ended in the

3 destruction of the union. Three continue now and

4 require concrete action by the Government to

5 demonstrate its seriousness about guaranteeing

6 basic worker rights.

7 In only two cases can we report

8 progress.

9 Many of the clearest cases of abuse

10 involve the denial of rights when the government

11 is the employer. Of the nine cases in which

12 unions have been busted, four involve employers

13 at various levels of government.

14 The government can no longer claim

15 that they inherited the labor rights problem.

16 The current government now owns these anti-union

17 practices and encourages them in public and

18 private sectors where broad and sustained denial

19 of the freedom of association in collective

20 bargaining persists.

21 The systematic violations of worker

22 rights at government owned enterprises where the


194

1 government has the authority and responsibility

2 to discipline problematic managers and high level

3 officials continues.

4 Rather than reign in these violations,

5 those leading their implementation as policy have

6 been elevated to higher positions in management

7 of these state owned enterprises and even to

8 Ministerial level positions in the national

9 government.

10 The situations at Georgia State

11 Railway and Georgia Post show how the national

12 government makes clear to workers what they will

13 face should they attempt to exercise the

14 internationally recognized worker rights to

15 freedom of association to organize and to bargain

16 collectively.

17 These long running and well known

18 cases encourage private employers to retaliate

19 against workers and refuse to bargain in good

20 faith.

21 We note that our submission also

22 included two public sector cases in which we have


195

1 seen progress. We urge the government to

2 intervene positively as an employer respecting

3 labor rights in more cases and demonstrate a real

4 commitment to internationally recognized worker

5 rights.

6 Despite recent measures, labor

7 inspection remains a problem. As a result of

8 Georgia's decimated capacity to inspect work

9 places and the absence of effective monitoring

10 and enforcement, many workers die and suffer

11 injuries, aside their submission.

12 Between 2007 and March 2018, 1,306

13 people died or were injured at their workplace.

14 The high rate of fatalities brought thousands of

15 people to the streets to demand better health and

16 safety at work at the beginning of this year.

17 In 2017, there were 81 industrial

18 accidents that claimed 41 lives and causes 66

19 injuries.

20 From January to July of this year, 31

21 people died and 33 were seriously injured.

22 A study published this September shows


196

1 Georgia's workplace fatality rate as being over

2 three times that of the European Union average.

3 In such a context, where the state is

4 not exercising the vital labor inspection

5 function, the ability of workers to form union of

6 their own choosing and defend themselves from

7 many abuses and dangerous conditions becomes even

8 more vital.

9 The AFL-CIO is not alone in our

10 evaluation of systematic problems well beyond

11 sustained failure to inspect workplaces. The

12 European Union's 2018 analysis of Georgia under

13 its GSP-Plus program supports our position

14 regarding the lack of freedom of association in

15 Georgia.

16 The workers, union leaders and unions

17 that have demonstrated independence from

18 employers and the government, the GTUC and its

19 affiliates are targeted for persecution.

20 Independence is the very essence of freedom of

21 association, even where it is protected and

22 respected, defending the rights of workers is


197

1 difficult. Without respect for this enabling

2 right, countless others cannot be exercised.

3 The AFL-CIO urges the administration

4 to suspend in whole or in part the application of

5 duty-free treatment unless the government takes

6 prompt, concrete and effective steps to change

7 both laws and practice to ensure that workers can

8 freely exercise their rights without employer and

9 government domination, interference and

10 harassment.

11 So, I have brought a study that I

12 mentioned about the European Union comparison to

13 submit as well. And we welcome any questions and

14 I'll be joined by my colleague from Georgia in

15 that.

16 MS. ATHREYA: Great. Thank you very

17 much for your testimony.

18 So, to start, I want to reference in

19 the original petition you had noted that the

20 largest union federation on the verge of collapse

21 after the government discontinued automatic dues

22 check off and support of a yellow union.


198

1 Tell us about the status of the

2 teachers' union today and what has caused the

3 change?

4 MR. FINNEGAN: I'll mention something

5 briefly and then defer to -- first, I'll just say

6 that from our understanding, there was a previous

7 Minister of Education who was willing to

8 negotiate a kind of framework agreement and

9 that's been somewhat important in keeping things

10 going.

11 MS. LIPERTELIANI: Thank you for your

12 question. Brian already mentioned that there was

13 two cases which showed result positively and one

14 of them was teachers case which is one of the

15 more challenging issue because, despite of

16 having, it was the largest union and in one

17 thing, we had no one member, even single member

18 the entire sector of the union.

19 So, it started the process of

20 reinstatement during this acting Government, so

21 starting from 2012 and now it is the only sector

22 union in Georgia which has a sectorial collective


199

1 agreement.

2 So, it is successful case, results at

3 the moment, so we don't have any problems in this

4 sector.

5 Thank you.

6 MS. LAURY: Good afternoon. I have a

7 question about labor inspection mechanisms.

8 Around the world, countries have adopted various

9 models for inspecting labor rights.

10 In your view, what are the basic

11 principles of enforcement for inspection regimes

12 in order to afford labor rights? And, what steps

13 would the Government of Georgia take to meet

14 these principles?

15 MR. FINNEGAN: Again, I'll start and

16 let my colleague continue.

17 I would say that, initially, this must

18 be clearly defined as a state function, as a

19 service that the government must train a civil

20 service, hire sufficient numbers with sufficient

21 training in the full range of what a labor

22 inspectorate is supposed to cover, not just


200

1 occupational safety and health.

2 One quick example, what we understand,

3 there are a lot of collective bargaining

4 agreements that are not being complied with and

5 the labor inspectorate that's only looking at

6 health and safety wouldn't be in a position to do

7 anything about that.

8 Touching on the corruption issue,

9 we've seen in many countries where there is not

10 sufficient funding, whether it's the salary or

11 transportation, this opens the door to corruption

12 in the labor inspectorate.

13 So, you can't just have it and then

14 start it because it would be out of control.

15 I'll let my colleague continue.

16 MS. LIPERTELIANI: So, why, of course,

17 in the beginning, I should mention that, in fact,

18 creation of labor inspection is a positive step.

19 This I could say on newly adopted law and

20 incorporation of health and safety.

21 But, still, there are some problems we

22 are facing and it's related to some kind of many


201

1 aspects of labor inspection, how they should like

2 according to ILO standards. We are referring to

3 ILO standards because we are a member of

4 organization plus, it was already mentioned, we

5 have association with you and, as you know, you

6 mainly want to refer to labor standards, it is

7 based on ILO standards.

8 And, what does it say, I mean, ILO

9 convention, one, it should cover not occupational

10 health and safety only, as my colleague already

11 mentioned, but labor rights.

12 On the other hand, it's really

13 interlinked. And, in many cases, or when job

14 accidents happens, it happens because of

15 violation of labor rights because people work

16 overtime, because people work at night. We don't

17 leave, so on.

18 And, it's, of course, it's sometimes

19 reasons of job accident.

20 So, it is artificial to police these

21 two dimensions of labor rights and say that, I,

22 as a country, I am only somehow covering


202

1 occupational health and safety and not for labor

2 rights. And, it's against ILO standards.

3 On the other hand, the main aspect

4 also is related to a mandate of labor inspectors

5 and sectors which are covered by the ILO.

6 As you know, it is a quite limited

7 number of sectors, it's 11 only. In the

8 beginning, we started from higher because of the

9 conditions of work. But, it's affected sectors

10 as needed.

11 Of course, it means that it is not in

12 compliance with ILO standards.

13 On the other hand, another problem is

14 related to access to workplaces. There are only

15 some exceptional cases no labor inspector have

16 access to workplaces. It's related on to plant

17 reasons when it takes place in moratorium cases

18 and when job accident happens.

19 In the rest of cases, for example, if

20 sometimes employee or trade unions are comply to

21 labor inspectors asking inspections, in this

22 case, labor inspector needs to go to court to get


203

1 permission and only after they can inspect the

2 workplaces.

3 We think that it will prevent, in some

4 cases, to have proper inspection, timely

5 inspection.

6 On the other hand, it is quite

7 challenging issue what should be discussed by

8 court. We don't have practice yet. But once

9 labor inspector applies to court, they don't have

10 any kind of evidence or papers and so on, it's

11 only a statement from someone which could be even

12 be confidential. So, how court should discuss

13 and how should they base their judgment on which

14 kind of circumstances or evidence is really

15 unclear.

16 And, it's also a concern from the

17 court system. We don't, as already mentioned, we

18 don't have practice when permission from court

19 was required. But, we are somehow predicting

20 that some challenges also will be related to not

21 only to the nature of getting permission, but to

22 the content, how to get it.


204

1 So, these are three main aspects why

2 we think that this acting labor inspection is not

3 in compliance with ILO standards.

4 Thank you.

5 MR. FINNEGAN: Just to clear up from

6 what was said just before we came up, this is

7 still by far the predominant or the norm is to

8 have to ask permission first. It's the exception

9 that there are visits without that.

10 One other issue I'd mention is about

11 the skills and protocols of worker interviews and

12 labor inspection which, even in countries with

13 long traditions of labor inspection, a lot of

14 problem persist and that's not something that's

15 learned or institutionalized overnight. And, it

16 can't be desk bound research.

17 MR. KARAWA: Thank you, again.

18 My question is regarding the TSPC.

19 The government in its submission refer to the

20 increasing meetings of this body and an

21 increasingly substantive workload.

22 Do you agree with this view and is


205

1 this body important to improving social dialogue?

2 MS. LIPERTELIANI: You mean the

3 Tripartite Commission? As was already mentioned,

4 we have Tripartite Commission as a country, but

5 we don't find it so efficient as it could be,

6 because it's usually Tripartite Commission should

7 have meetings once per quarter, but only we can

8 manage to have it once per year. So, we would

9 like to have it more efficient, more frequent and

10 so on.

11 So, we are not very satisfied on this

12 level of topics and discussions by Tripartite

13 Commission. So, we feel it should be, it should

14 somehow be more active and Georgia Government

15 should do something to promote collective

16 bargaining and get the national level and at all

17 levels.

18 And, Tripartite Commission, in fact,

19 on paper is quite a good mechanism, but not so

20 efficient as we would like to have.

21 And, on the other hand, I would like

22 also to add one comment on corruption because


206

1 there are some arguments why labor inspection is

2 not needed or there are some risks of corruption,

3 what the government did and it is quite positive

4 step.

5 It was created the Anti-corruption

6 Council at government level. And, in the Council

7 there are representatives from trade unions, from

8 business representatives as well. So, if they

9 have some concerns related to some corruption,

10 cases of corruption, they can just deal with this

11 issue there inside this Commission.

12 But, it -- we don't find it to be a

13 realistic argument and reason because maybe labor

14 inspection is newly established, but there are

15 many other supervisory bodies in the country and

16 we cannot say that corruption is a challenge at

17 least in Georgia in general.

18 So, we -- I cannot even remember one

19 single case when someone, I mean, suffered from

20 any kind of inspections which are under the

21 Ministry of Economy or under municipality or

22 someone get bribe or there are no such cases in


207

1 Georgia.

2 So, I think it's very artificial and

3 only to have such argument and it's the main idea

4 why such arguments, some people -- sometimes

5 business have it just to prevent to have real

6 mechanism at additional level like labor

7 inspection.

8 MR. FINNEGAN: I would just add very

9 quickly that given what we heard about the

10 quantity of really important labor related

11 legislation that is in draft form and probably

12 moving, it seems like robust social dialogue is

13 more important than in a lot of situations

14 because of all the things they're going to be

15 treating that would need some sort of

16 consultation.

17 MS. HELM: In the recent past, Georgia

18 has suffered a number of major industrial

19 accidents leading to loss of life, especially in

20 the mining sector.

21 Do you anticipate that the new OSH

22 law, when fully implemented, will better protect


208

1 workers in these hazardous industries? Are these

2 sectors that should have been included in the HHH

3 list that were not?

4 MR. FINNEGAN: Very quickly, I'll just

5 say that I think we've seen a lot of mobilization

6 in the country around this issue, it is not a

7 remote issue. It's very high profile that tells

8 you a lot.

9 And that from what we can tell, this

10 step forward is absolutely welcome, but it's

11 clearly a step. I think we've already heard a

12 lot of the reasons why it needs to be more

13 integrated and a more complete approach and it's

14 just it's a welcome first step.

15 MS. LIPERTELIANI: Yes, of course,

16 this mining sector is also included in the list

17 which was adopted by the government and it was

18 negotiated with social partners.

19 And, of course, we expect to have less

20 number of job accidents, but I cannot say but we

21 should wait because it's very newly adopted laws,

22 this instrument is very new and we should wait


209

1 how this statistics will look like for the next

2 year, for example.

3 Maybe because of some problems which

4 are related towards those challenges I already

5 mentioned knows the statistics will not be

6 improved so much but, of course, it should have

7 its influence because this mining sector and

8 construction and also sectors where there's job

9 accidents mainly have been -- are covered by this

10 list and it is a resolution of the government

11 that it's under mandate of current labor

12 inspection.

13 MR. HERFINDAHL: Great. Well, I want

14 to thank both of you so much for your testimony

15 and your participation today.

16 MS. LIPERTELIANI: Thank you.

17 MR. HERFINDAHL: So, next on the

18 agenda is Bolivia.

19 So, welcome. Good to see you and

20 thank you for coming today.

21 INTERPRETER: I'm sorry, I'm going to

22 interpret and two of the members wanted to hear


210

1 everything into Spanish and it will take 30

2 seconds to be ready.

3 MR. HERFINDAHL: Okay.

4 INTERPRETER: So, I have to get them

5 set up.

6 MR. HERFINDAHL: Of course.

7 INTERPRETER: Thank you.

8 MR. HERFINDAHL: Ready?

9 INTERPRETER: Yes.

10 MR. HERFINDAHL: Great, thank you.

11 As I was saying, thank you and

12 welcome. We would just ask that you start with a

13 five minute statement and then we'll give some

14 questions from the government side.

15 MR. FERNANDEZ-RUELAS: Okay, thank

16 you, thank you everyone.

17 It's my pleasure to be here again.

18 So, but, with good news this time. We are today

19 represented here with the Bolivian State that's

20 now represented by the Minister Principle Advisor

21 Ambassador Benjamin Blanco, he is Director of

22 Child and Elderly Persons in Bolivia and is on


211

1 the Ministry of Justice and Transparency and

2 which is the head of Integration and Commerce

3 operation, at the Minister of -- Ministry of the

4 Foreign Affairs.

5 So, we're going to take a couple of

6 minutes for our Minister to explain our position

7 and then we are -- we'll be ready for Q&A.

8 So, this is the Minister Advisor, so

9 the floor is with you.

10 Thank you.

11 (Non-English language spoken.)

12 MR. BANCO-FERRI (THROUGH INTERPRETER):

13 Thank you very much distinguished members, and

14 all the GSP Subcommittee.

15 I'm honored to be here for this very

16 important dialogue and to share our efforts in

17 dealing with issues, particularly child labor and

18 our efforts to eradicate the ongoing situation of

19 child labor.

20 We would like to begin by stating once

21 again that the minimum age for working in Bolivia

22 is age 14 and that's the case since the code in


212

1 1999 code as well as the 2014 code.

2 The main difference between the 1999

3 code and the 2014 code is Article 129, Paragraph

4 2 of the new code which established an exception

5 to this rule on minimum age.

6 The Offices of Ombudsperson for

7 children and adolescents could authorize self-

8 employment for minors ages 10 to 14 years of age

9 and work activity hired by another person for

10 those ages 12 to 14.

11 And these exceptions provided that it

12 would not apply to any activity that might

13 undermine their rights to education. It must not

14 be dangerous. It must not be insalubrious nor

15 threaten their dignity or their comprehensive

16 development.

17 Bolivia's approach really is much more

18 ambitious. It aims to eradicate the causes of

19 child labor and this is done by adopting public

20 policies in the -- for the short, medium and long

21 term.

22 And to this end, there are at least 12


213

1 plans, projects and programs underway in Bolivia

2 in order to directly tackle child labor, to

3 struggle against its causes to prevent dropout --

4 kids dropping out from school, to improve their

5 diet and nutrition, to promote learning and

6 training, create jobs for parents, protect

7 children from hazardous work, prevent and punish

8 human trafficking and provide social services and

9 strengthen the institutions in order to supervise

10 their well-being and ensure enforcement of the

11 law.

12 The results of these plans and

13 programs have been very encouraging and

14 representative of -- for children of Ministry of

15 Justice. We'll go into some more detail in a few

16 moments.

17 The exception provided for an Article

18 129 of 2014 law was to be done to establish some

19 exceptions and the spirit was to best protect the

20 situation of children facing these situations.

21 So, under our new constitution, there

22 is something known as the constitutional block


214

1 and under this, international human rights

2 treaties and other community agreements with

3 other nations by Bolivia are considered to be

4 part of the essence of the constitution of the

5 Bolivian constitutional law.

6 And this means that ILO Convention 138

7 has the same rank in Bolivia as the constitution

8 of the country and that any measure of a law that

9 might be adopted that is at odds with any

10 provision set forth in human rights treaty

11 ratified by Bolivia is found to be

12 unconstitutional.

13 And so, the Office of the Ombudsman

14 filed a challenge known as a constitutional

15 challenge to this Article 129 that was on July

16 21st and this was -- and there was a finding

17 that, indeed, the law was at odds with

18 protections for children set forth in the

19 conventional rights of the child and convention -

20 - ILO Convention 138.

21 So, the Article 129 exception at this

22 time is not enforced in Bolivia. And the


215

1 judgments of the constitutional court in Bolivia

2 are all res judicata so there may be no

3 subsequent remedy pursued and they are binding

4 and they set case law. They go into effect

5 immediately and are to provide guidance in future

6 court decision in the country.

7 That's why no further legislative

8 action or legal action is necessary in order to

9 implement the judgment of this high court.

10 And so, to conclude, I want to close

11 with two points. First, just to underscore the

12 minimum age of 14 for work in Bolivia ever since

13 the constitutional court judgment on July 2017.

14 No exceptions whatsoever are admitted.

15 And, therefore, the problem that

16 originally gave rise to the need for the country

17 practice to review has been resolved.

18 We know that child labor continues to

19 be a problem in Bolivia, in the United States,

20 and around the world, and, therefore, we will

21 continue implementing these new programs that

22 have shown results in order to continue tackling


216

1 this scourge.

2 Thank you very much and would like to

3 pass the floor to Ninoska Duran with the Ministry

4 of Justice in Bolivia to discuss with us these

5 results.

6 MS. DURAN BURGOA (THROUGH

7 INTERPRETER): Thank you very much. Good

8 afternoon, it's good to be here. I would like to

9 share with you some of the actions that we've

10 worked on, not only to -- in relation to

11 implementing ILO Convention 138 but in terms of

12 defending the human rights of children and

13 particularly children who work in Bolivia.

14 Carrying out a transitory provision of

15 Law 548, the code on children and adolescents, a

16 survey was undertaken to look into the situation

17 of children who work.

18 So, this survey has been carried out

19 since 2008 and this as to assess the situation of

20 child workers and the fact that it's carried out

21 since 2008 also gives us a benchmark to compare

22 further developments since then.


217

1 And this national survey is being

2 carried out with the mandate from the highest

3 level. The guiding -- the lead agency is the

4 Ministry of Justice and Institutional

5 Transparency because it's at the head of the

6 national system for protecting child rights. It

7 also includes the Ministry of Labor, Ministry of

8 Planning, Statistics Office and others.

9 The survey has been fundamental, it

10 surveyed three million children and adolescents

11 ages 5 through 17 nationally, in addition to

12 coming up with quantitative data, it has also

13 allowed us to garner impressions from the

14 children themselves who work.

15 Among the main results of the survey

16 of the three million children and adolescents

17 ages 5 to 17, 739,000 either are engaged in some

18 work activity or work.

19 In 2008, in a similar survey, just to

20 give you an idea for comparative purposes, it

21 showed 800,000 children working.

22 And so, this yields important


218

1 information which is that there's been a 50

2 percent decline in children who work as there's

3 now 393,000 children working.

4 Also important regarding hazardous

5 work, the 2008 survey showed 756,000 children

6 working. And so, this has been reduced by 80

7 percent, the 746,000 who had been working in

8 hazardous conditions, now it's 154,000 who are

9 either performing hazardous work or working in

10 hazardous conditions.

11 As the Plurinational State of Bolivia,

12 it's important to note that there is a legal

13 mandate driving this work, but the actions taken

14 are also very important to implement policies.

15 I would note in particular, technical

16 assistance and resources from -- are being

17 provided by UNICEF to supplement the budget

18 already in the 2019 budget of the four

19 institutions that I mentioned before. And, this,

20 in order to further prevention and social

21 protection program for children and adolescents

22 who work.


219

1 And so, finally, this situation

2 assessment provides us with quantitative and

3 qualitative data that allows us to figure out

4 what percentage of children are engaged in work,

5 where and so forth.

6 And this will allow us to redouble our

7 efforts for both preventing, but also eradicating

8 child labor where it exists. It will help us to

9 strengthen institutions such as the Office of

10 Labor Inspection which carries out inspections at

11 factories and other sites where suspected

12 children may be working. And, with the 2017

13 constitutional court judgment, there is no more

14 exception. The exception is not part of Bolivian

15 law and, therefore, Bolivian law is consistent

16 with the constitutional block that I mentioned

17 before which means -- which includes, among

18 others, convention on the rights of the child and

19 ILO Convention 138.

20 MR. FERNANDEZ RUELAS: Well, this is

21 our presentation and we are open for your

22 questions and here's the Ambassador of Bolivia,


220

1 so you can ask and we're open for all of your

2 questions.

3 MR. HERFINDAHL: Great, well, I want

4 to thank you very much for your very

5 comprehensive presentation. I'll turn to my

6 colleague from the State Department.

7 MR. PAJUSI: Yes, I'll go with the

8 first question.

9 With the court ruling that Mr. Blanco

10 referred to, the implementation of child labor

11 laws would appear to shift back from the

12 defensorias to the labor inspectorate. And, I

13 think you just talked about this a little but,

14 but does the Government of Bolivia have plans to

15 increase the number of labor inspectors and the

16 resources available to them including resources

17 specifically dedicated to the elimination of

18 child labor?


20 INTERPRETER): Thank you for the question. The

21 multi-sectorial programming that we have for 2019

22 looks to strengthen the capacity of the labor


221

1 inspector offices and of the defensorias, not

2 increasing their number, but --- and they have a

3 presence, the defensorias have a presence closer

4 to where the children are and there are the labor

5 inspector offices also existing.

6 The idea is to form specialized human

7 resources so as to be able to strengthen our

8 efforts through these institutions both

9 qualitatively and quantitatively.

10 MR. BANCO-FERRI (THROUGH INTERPRETER):

11 Just to complement what my colleague said, there

12 is also a 15 percent increase in the budget for

13 the Offices of Labor Inspector and there's going

14 to now be mobile inspector's offices which have

15 not existed yet in order to make sure that their

16 labor inspections can really make it to all parts

17 of the country. We'll share more information

18 both on the budgets and on the numbers of

19 inspectors in what we submit after the hearing.

20 MS. MITCH: Thanks very much.

21 I believe you referred to this already

22 as well, but does the government intend to


222

1 consult with international organizations such as

2 the ILO and UNICEF as it implements the revised

3 law and to help raise awareness among relevant

4 stakeholders of the impact of the constitutional

5 tribunal's decision?

6 In addition, does the government plan

7 to seek technical assistance in meeting the

8 government's goal of eradicating child labor by

9 2025?


11 INTERPRETER): Yes, the resources that are

12 earmarked to this program are public resources,

13 but we are also working with international

14 organizations, with UNICEF very much on board, we

15 can probably tighten up the relationship for

16 support from ILO.

17 And also, there has been a recent

18 decree adopted that is the communication of the

19 state's strategy for publicizing children's

20 rights and defending children's rights.

21 The idea is also to wage a campaign to

22 raise awareness about the prohibition on child


223

1 labor, yet, at the same time, about the rights of

2 children, the fact that some children can work in

3 some situations, but delimited respecting rights

4 and so forth.

5 MR. O'DONOVAN: Good afternoon and

6 thank you for your testimony.

7 The constitutional court decision was

8 clear that any employment of children below the

9 age of 14 is prohibited.

10 However, ILO Convention 138 which the

11 tribunal sought to interpret and to ensure

12 compliance does allow certain exceptions for

13 children between the ages of 12 and 14 to engage

14 in light work in some circumstances.

15 Does Bolivia currently have plans to

16 amend its code for children and adolescents to

17 allow certain types of light work for children

18 under 14?


20 INTERPRETER): The judgment of the constitutional

21 court that we referred to, it's 0-5. It begins

22 analyzing ILO Convention 138 and the convention


224

1 of the rights of the child, both of which are

2 part of our essential constitutional block.

3 And, it declares unconstitutional

4 Article 129, too, which had opened up a possible

5 exception to the prohibition on child labor. But

6 now, it, as a matter of statutory and

7 constitutional law in Bolivia, 14 is the minimum

8 age.

9 There's no subsequent review. It is

10 binding and it is case law. And, it's binding

11 case law.

12 MR. LAURY: Good afternoon, as noted

13 in the U.S. Department of Labor's worst forms of

14 child labor report, the age of completion of

15 compulsory education in Bolivia generally in 16

16 years, which is also the end of secondary school.

17 What steps is the government taking to

18 ensure that working children or those above the

19 age of 14 are able to complete their compulsory

20 education?


22 INTERPRETER): So, the Ministry of Education has


225

1 a program that works not just with adolescents

2 who work, and face these -- and have difficulties

3 accessing their full education, and this includes

4 children who work -- who live in border towns,

5 children with disabilities or who otherwise just

6 don't have the same opportunities, and in

7 particular, there's a program that has been set

8 up that is a mobile educational brigade program

9 to be able to work with the children with these

10 special conditions. And, as I say, it's not

11 limited to children who work.

12 And go to where they are to be able to

13 make up for any educational situations that there

14 may be in that regard.

15 MR. HERFINDAHL: Well, I'd like to

16 thank the delegation from Bolivia for your

17 participation today. We really appreciate it.

18 MR. FERNANDEZ RUELAS: Thank you,

19 everyone, again. We are going to complement

20 everything in the post-hearing briefing, so and

21 again, thank you.

22 MR. HERFINDAHL: Could I ask the


226

1 delegation of Indonesia to come forward, please?

2 (Off microphone comments)

3 MR. HERFINDAHL: Well, thank you very

4 much for coming and it's good to see you. You

5 can proceed with your five minute statement and

6 then we'll have a few questions from the

7 government panel.

8 Oh, and I just want to introduce, we

9 have Conor Harrington here from USTR as well.

10 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: Good afternoon,

11 thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of GSP

12 Subcommittee. I hope that you are -- you had a

13 good Thanksgiving weekend last week.

14 So, my name is Reza Pahlevi Chairul

15 and I'm the Commercial Attache at the Indonesian

16 Embassy in Washington, D.C.

17 I would like to thank the USTR for

18 allowing us to be present here today. At this

19 hearing I wish to raise some points regarding

20 Indonesia progress on intellectual property

21 rights protections for your considerations on the

22 ongoing GSP country practice review.


227

1 With regard to the case under review,

2 intellectual property right regime has been one

3 of the top priorities for the Indonesian

4 Government for the past decade.

5 And, the Indonesian Government has

6 taken and will continue to take concrete steps

7 and actions to enhance protections and

8 enforcement of IPR in Indonesia including the

9 amendment of IPR law, improvement of interagency

10 coordinations as well as international

11 operations.

12 Indonesia has had regulations on

13 protections of copyrights with law number 28 2014

14 with landlord liability clause as well as

15 industry property rights that prefers patent law,

16 trademark, geographical indications, the signs of

17 integrated equip and trade secret law.

18 It's also worth noting that with the

19 Indonesian Government Regulation Number 20 2017,

20 Indonesia has equipped its custom divisions with

21 the authority to monitor IPR infringement on

22 export and import activities at the border.


228

1 The Government of Indonesia is also

2 continuously improving its platform on IPR

3 surfaces such as implementations of complain

4 mechanism by the IP owner or holder, online

5 registration system for copyright, patent,

6 industry design and trademark.

7 Improved regulation on film law with

8 relaxed local content requirement and full

9 foreign investor ownership.

10 As for the enforcement of IPR

11 regulations, since the adoptions of such

12 mechanism, there has been almost 200 IP

13 infringement reports filed to the central and

14 regional government.

15 During the period of 2016 through 2018

16 alone, the government agency have handled 93

17 cases and prevented 2,000 attempts of IP

18 violations.

19 This achievement was met with the help

20 from other stakeholders including non-

21 governmental organizations in creative industry

22 that help in termination of 471 websites and IP


229

1 violations.

2 Nevertheless, the Government of

3 Indonesia also acknowledges that there are some

4 shortcomings in implementations of the IP

5 protection laws, particularly in the rise of

6 digital era where transection of counterfeit and

7 virus materials can no longer be in the form of

8 tangible goods in physical market but can happen

9 virtually through online market or even social

10 media.

11 Therefore, we realize that there is

12 still a lot of room for improvement in domestic

13 IPR protections and is welcoming assistance and

14 cooperation from foreign parties.

15 May 2018 is one of our milestones

16 where the U.S. and Indonesian governments have

17 finally agreed on the work plan on IPR at the 17

18 trade investment framework agreement meeting in

19 Jakarta.

20 Conclusion of the work plan that had

21 been discussed extensively since 2012 signifies a

22 concrete foundation of IPR protection joint


230

1 efforts.

2 The Government of Indonesia has

3 followed up the work plan by conducting

4 interagency meetings on 2019 action plan and

5 budgeting that is expected to be done by early

6 2019.

7 We have also conducted several

8 workshops, especially in cooperation with the

9 U.S. Patent and Trademark Office that aims to

10 improve capacity and quality of IPR regulators

11 and government officials like the one in

12 September 2018, joint workshop between the

13 Indonesian Ministry of Justice and Human Rights

14 Affairs with USPTO.

15 To conclude, let me summarize that it

16 is in Indonesia interest to create conducive

17 environment for trade and investment including in

18 IPR protections.

19 Indonesia work plan on IPR is on track

20 and progressing towards an improved state of IP

21 protections.

22 Our efforts and improvement that I


231

1 have mentioned earlier show that Indonesia IP

2 protection is progressing positively and we

3 expect this to be taken into full consideration

4 by the panels.

5 Termination of Indonesia eligibility

6 on GSP will not bring benefit for either side,

7 especially U.S. stakeholders, consumers, farmers

8 and manufacturers who will take the price of

9 losing the opportunity of Indonesia quality

10 product at competitive price.

11 With the same remark, we also expect

12 positive outcome for the ongoing parallel GSP

13 country practice review in related to market

14 access surface and investment issue.

15 I think that's all my short comment

16 and thank you for your considerations.

17 MS. COHEN: Thank you very much for

18 your comments.

19 I'm going to ask one question with two

20 parts. Thank you for acknowledging shortcomings

21 in Indonesia Law 13-2016 and for sharing

22 information on Ministerial Regulation Number 15-


232

1 2018 that allows patent holders to request

2 postponement of local manufacturing requirements.

3 What are Indonesia's plans to amend

4 this law and which specific areas are to be

5 addressed?

6 Thank you.

7 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: Thank you. I

8 think we will, in detail, we will proffer it in

9 post-hearing briefing. But, just short, you know

10 that we have revised the patent rights, you said

11 about the patent, all landlord --

12 MS. COHEN: Yes, correct, the patent.

13 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: For the patent,

14 yes. As you noted, we have revised Article 20

15 that, I mean, you could request postponement of

16 our IP production and manufacturing in Indonesia.

17 So, it gives us some flexibility to

18 accommodate U.S. IP with this industry and then

19 we will continue to revise another related laws

20 about patent.

21 But, at least in Article 20, we have

22 revised to give flexibility.


233

1 MS. COHEN: Okay, thank you very much.

2 MS. LAURY: Good afternoon, thank you

3 for your testimony.

4 Indonesia's submission notes that

5 Indonesia's law and industrial design, Law Number

6 31 of 2000 needs to be improved and is currently

7 in the process of revision.

8 What is the time line on the revision

9 and which areas will be covered?

10 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: Thank you,

11 again. We will answer in detail in post-hearing

12 brief. But, again, this law under revision but

13 we will consult with the capital about which area

14 that we need to be improved.

15 MS. LAURY: Okay.

16 MR. PAJUSI: Mr. Chairul, thank you

17 for sharing information regarding Indonesia's IP

18 law enforcement complaint mechanism.

19 In your testimony, you mentioned the

20 statistic, but I just want to be clear, in your

21 submission, you said that there were 187 IP

22 infringement reports have been filed.


234

1 And, can you please just tell us what

2 time period that covers? And also, are there any

3 rejected criminal complaints not included in this

4 figure or does this reflect all potential

5 infringement cases?

6 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: Yes, thank you.

7 Again, we will proffer statistic in detail about

8 the cases that we have done.

9 As you noted, in our submission we

10 have handled around 93 cases of IP in which there

11 are 21 have been prevented and 8 have been

12 prosecuted.

13 And then, we have -- we adopted a

14 complaint mechanism to make it easier for IP

15 owner to report online. And this is still

16 ongoing, but at least we have a template for IP

17 owner to report online.

18 But, like I said, we will provide you

19 in detail. And again, in related to pharmacy

20 sector, actually, we have five cases, as you see

21 in the -- in our submission. And there is one in

22 2018 October. This is a confiscation of illegal


235

1 drug from United States.

2 And then, our Indonesian Food and

3 Agency have conducted investigation to stop this

4 illegal drugs from the United States.

5 MR. PAJUSI: Thank you.

6 MR. HARRINGTON: Thank you very much.

7 As your submission notes, the United

8 States and Indonesia agreed on a work plan on IPR

9 in May of 2018 at the annual trade and investment

10 framework agreement meeting in Jakarta.

11 What progress has Indonesia made to

12 address the concerns that the U.S. Government has

13 raised regarding intellectual property? And,

14 what further steps are underway or planned?

15 And, in particular, you mentioned

16 there were budgeting and planning activities that

17 have already taken place and that work was to be

18 completed in early 2019. Could you describe that

19 in a bit more detail, please?

20 Thank you.

21 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: Thank you so

22 much about the working plan. I think this is


236

1 good momentum for us. I think since 2012, we

2 have discussed work plan. And, I think the final

3 initiation of our working plan in May 2018 this

4 year should be commendable.

5 I mean, what I'm trying to say, this

6 is great momentum for us to work IPR protections

7 and enforcement as well.

8 So, related to all market access and

9 a lot have to be done, we understand that more

10 work remains to be done. But, at least we have

11 working plan.

12 And, as information from Jakarta, they

13 had internal meeting to, I mean, to prepare an

14 action plan. What I mean by action plan is to

15 implement this working plan because a lot of

16 issues have been written here regarding about the

17 landlord liability about protections, about the

18 enforcement publications, corporations as well

19 but at least we have some mechanism and I do

20 believe that U.S. already appreciate what we have

21 done.

22 Even more work to be done, but at


237

1 least with this work plan, we have a scheme to be

2 done and we will, again, provide you in detail in

3 our post-hearing brief about the setting about

4 this working plan, action plan.

5 So, and we talk also about the

6 budgeting because we need budget to implement

7 this and we have our interagency meeting as well.

8 Because when we talk about IPR issue, for

9 example, like patent, it's not only about

10 Ministry of Trade, but also other ministry-

11 related. That is why we also improve our

12 interagency coordinations as requested by USTR

13 during our negotiation for the couple years.


15 In its submission, the International

16 Intellectual Property Alliance identifies a

17 number of different enforcement actions or

18 legislative reforms that could help ensure

19 effective protection of intellectual property

20 rights in Indonesia.

21 One of the issues they raise is the

22 need for additional steps to combat piracy


238

1 devices and apps which enable the dissemination

2 of unauthorized motion picture and television

3 content.

4 Could you describe what steps

5 Indonesia is taking to combat these devices and

6 apps?

7 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: Yes, I think we

8 just received that actually petition from IIPA

9 and we noted IIPA is the original petition for

10 Indonesia since 2011.

11 And then, I think this is about

12 copyright, as you noted, we have a copyright law

13 and we do some improvement, for example, like

14 CMO, we have to collect royal property and also,

15 but about the landlord that first asked by the

16 panel.

17 And, of course, we will to do the

18 positive way, but at least we have some

19 improvement about what landlord to prevent

20 copyright infringement.

21 And, in detail, we will provide you in

22 post-hearing brief. But, at least there are two


239

1 things that we have a positive outcome, first

2 about the landlord provisions and also about CMO

3 to collect property, IPR property.

4 MR. KARAWA: Thank you.

5 My question is on the legislative

6 side. The International Intellectual Property

7 Alliance recommends the elimination of provisions

8 from the film law that serve as barriers to

9 market access such as local screen quarters and

10 prohibitions on dubbing imported films.

11 Could you comment on this proposal,

12 please?

13 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: Thank you,

14 again, we will provide you in detail. But, we

15 take note actually about this restriction in film

16 law, our restriction about our negative

17 investment.

18 But, in our working plan, Indonesia

19 will create a more profitable investment

20 including the one in creative industry like film

21 and music sector and also pharmaceutical.

22 We will provide you answer in detail


240

1 in the post-hearing brief.

2 MR. HERFINDAHL: Could you tell us the

3 status of Indonesia's National IP Task Force? We

4 understand it's under -- it was undergoing

5 revitalization. And, has this been completed?

6 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: Yes, thank you,

7 Mr. Herfindahl. Yes, I think a couple last month

8 I believe that it was in meetings among related

9 agencies in Indonesia.

10 And, there was a discussion to

11 rejuvenate the task force, IPR Task Force in

12 Indonesia.

13 What we need is to restructure this

14 task force, also the budgeting and what kind of

15 activities that have to be done in 2019.

16 And, I do believe that this is a

17 positive way, but of course, we need time to

18 coordinate among ourselves and probably one way

19 to increase this effort is to do like a digital

20 video conference between USTR and Indonesia

21 Ministry of Human Rights to expedite the

22 completion of Indonesia National Task Force


241

1 related to IPR.

2 Actually, this task force was created

3 a couple years ago, but, like I mentioned, we

4 would like to re-modernize or modernize this task

5 force to cover IP issues and violations.

6 MS. COHEN: I have a question about

7 border enforcement. Has the DGCE's ex officio

8 border enforcement system been implemented and is

9 it in operation? And, if so, will the Government

10 of Indonesia reconsider the requirement that

11 firms be domiciled in Indonesia to use the border

12 enforcement system?

13 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: We will answer

14 in post-hearing briefing about the border. But

15 we have one regulation, government -- I don't

16 know if this is related or not, but we have

17 Government Regulation Number 20 2010 27 about

18 export or import control of good provided or

19 resulting from intellectual property rights

20 enforcement at the border.

21 So, our customs official has a right

22 to seize the illegal product exported or


242

1 imported. This law -- this government regulation

2 was created last year, 2017.

3 MS. COHEN: Thank you.

4 MR. HERFINDAHL: And, I'd like to

5 really thank the Government of Indonesia for your

6 participation today. It's been very helpful.

7 So, thank you very much.

8 MR. PAHLEVI CHAIRUL: One more thing,

9 Mr. Herfindahl, thank you so much for having us

10 at your meeting today. As you know, that

11 Indonesia always protects IPR as our prosperity

12 and to enhance our relationships.

13 And, Indonesia always have seen and

14 always see U.S. as our strategic partners and we

15 do hope also that U.S. also see us as a strategic

16 partner.

17 Thank you.

18 MR. HERFINDAHL: Yes, thank you, and

19 that's very encouraging to hear.

20 Okay, Steve, you're up again.

21 MR. LAMAR: Thank you, and as the last

22 witness, I'll try and go as fast as I can or at


243

1 least I'll wrap up.

2 And, I'm also here again on behalf of

3 the organizations I mentioned before. A lot of

4 my testimony has a lot of the same comments that

5 we made previously when I was speaking on

6 Thailand.

7 So, rather than repeat all that,

8 you'll see all that for the record. I'm just

9 going to go right into some of our specifics on

10 Indonesia.

11 And, again, it makes a lot of the very

12 same points about the benefits of GSP for the

13 country, for the -- for our industry and also for

14 how our industry is structured.

15 So, Indonesia is the fifth largest and

16 one of the fastest growing suppliers of travel

17 goods under GSP.

18 Indonesia has already established a

19 reputation as a producer of quality travel goods,

20 hand bags, totes, backpacks.

21 I'm going to provide comments from

22 just two companies and then we can go on to


244

1 questions if you have any, we can do them for the

2 record.

3 So, this comes from -- directly from

4 two of our member companies who are members of

5 several of the organizations that I'm here

6 representing.

7 In their own words, GSP not only helps

8 diversify out of China, but also helps diversify

9 enterprise wide, risks resulting from having too

10 much volume in a single country.

11 Indonesia is a good sourcing country

12 for travel goods. They can produce a quality

13 product on day one. It's a good hedge even

14 though -- even against other non-GSP countries

15 such as Vietnam, which most companies have now

16 heavily diversified into, increasing the

17 enterprise wide risk.

18 While we have diversified out of China

19 with the extension of GSP, some of the volumes

20 have gone to lesser developed countries that

21 still need more time and infrastructure

22 improvement before they can produce to a level of


245

1 an Indonesia.

2 Even the Philippines has not lived up

3 to its expectations in terms of quality.

4 Cambodia and Myanmar required an additional month

5 of lead time for supply chain planning.

6 So, I mention them just because, as

7 we're looking at if you're removing GSP from

8 Indonesia, where does the industry go?

9 A lot of times, folks say, geez, you

10 can go to one of these other countries, but some

11 of these other countries do create issues for,

12 again, individual companies.

13 Removing Indonesia from GSP will push

14 volumes back to China as other countries are not

15 able to produce the high quality that we expect,

16 as I mentioned before with tariffs coming out of

17 China, that creates additional issues as well.

18 And then, from the other company,

19 since 2016, they just provided numbers, the share

20 of product they import from Indonesia has

21 quadrupled from 4 percent to 15 percent. So they

22 are much more dependent on Indonesia.


246

1 And, during that same period, China's

2 share, their share from China dropped from 53 to

3 19 percent.

4 So, I just want to emphasize, we're

5 very sympathetic to the concerns about IP. In

6 fact, in our notorious markets comments and our

7 special 301 comments, we do identify both

8 notorious markets comments from comment notorious

9 markets in Indonesia as well as IP practices in

10 Indonesia that create concerns for us.

11 But, we're recommending that at least

12 with respect to travel goods, that Indonesia not

13 lose its GSP status.

14 So, with that, I'll take some

15 questions.

16 Thanks.

17 MR. HARRINGTON: Thank you.

18 Is there a role businesses can play in

19 eliminating violations of intellectual property

20 rights in Indonesia?

21 MR. LAMAR: Absolutely. Well we do a

22 bunch of things, it's partly education and partly


247

1 coordination.

2 Education is just to make sure the

3 governments understand not only the value of

4 these brands' IP, and we look at it from a brand

5 perspective, we're not so much the like what you

6 find for motion pictures or trademarks. But, our

7 trademarks themselves.

8 The -- we make sure they understand

9 that as they're protecting IP, it helps protect

10 the jobs that they -- that these industries are

11 supporting in their country. So, they actually

12 see this isn't just something that the brands

13 have and it protects jobs in the United States,

14 but it protects jobs in their country as well.

15 So, that's the first thing.

16 And, the second thing is, to work with

17 them so they see that there is a role in

18 enforcement.

19 And, in fact, one of the concerns

20 we've had is getting cooperation from the

21 Indonesian Government on enforcement.

22 Every year is better than the year


248

1 before. Next year will be better than it is this

2 year. But, it's sort of a constant effort to

3 reach out to them and get more participation and

4 to act on the tips that we provide them.

5 So, we're kind of their eyes and ears.

6 But then, at the same time, make sure that as

7 they're prosecuting cases, they're actually

8 prosecuting them, you know, to the fullest extent

9 because, you know, there's a deterrent ability or

10 deterrent factor that goes into grant protection

11 and we want to make sure that that full deterrent

12 factor has an impact.

13 MR. KARAWA: Thank you, again, Mr.

14 Lamar.

15 My question is about the plausible,

16 how would your members' social status change if

17 GSP benefits were revoked for Indonesia?

18 MR. LAMAR: So, companies would look

19 to -- there's really, I think three options and

20 none of those options is coming back to the U.S.

21 There isn't a industry to speak of here that they

22 can come to or if they did, it would take a


249

1 generation to develop.

2 The options are going back into China.

3 And everyone's trying to diversify out of China

4 especially with the tariffs that have been

5 imposed.

6 Going into Vietnam which is becoming

7 a large volume producer of travel goods. But,

8 Vietnam is at capacity and so, as you're putting

9 more business there, those costs are going up.

10 Or going into other GSP countries.

11 The -- and the benefit of that, of course, is

12 because you get that duty benefit.

13 The duty benefit is especially helpful

14 now because now we're paying additional tariffs

15 away from China. So, you're also looking for

16 ways to kind of, you know, mitigate against those

17 duty concerns, too.

18 That creates problems as well because

19 you run into, (a) capacity issues as there may

20 not be enough factory capacity. It may not be

21 the right factories, it takes a lot to qualify

22 the factories and so forth.


250

1 Or, (b) you may be going into another

2 country that's also under another review. Both

3 India and, as we talked about earlier today,

4 Thailand are under review.

5 So, you could find you're kind of

6 going out of the frying pan into the fire, as it

7 were.

8 So, it does create a complicated

9 picture. We invest a lot in developing these

10 supply chains.

11 And also, in developing compliance,

12 not only on the IP but also on the labor side as

13 well. And so, you know, we're hoping that that

14 gets recognized as well. So, as we spend our

15 time and energy trying to develop these compliant

16 facilities, it may be that the neighborhood has

17 some concerns or issues but that the U.S.

18 companies that are exporting their values to

19 improve the business climate there or to improve

20 the specific situations around the factories and

21 the communities those factories support, can

22 continue to see the benefit there and those


251

1 investments don't get undermined if we lose the

2 GSP status.

3 MR. KARAWA: You mentioned that you

4 invest a lot into compliance, could you kindly in

5 your post provide --

6 MR. LAMAR: Absolutely, yes. Yes, we

7 do a lot of that. I'll just say one thing we do

8 is also do a lot of educational work on that,

9 too.

10 MR. HERFINDAHL: Just a quick follow-

11 up. I was surprised one of your options wasn't

12 stay in Indonesia and pay the tariff.

13 So, you think, if Indonesia lost GSP,

14 your industry would actively seek to get out of

15 the market?

16 MR. LAMAR: That's what people are

17 telling us. I mean, it may be different for

18 individual companies, but that's the message that

19 we've gotten so far.

20 MS. COHEN: Do any of your member

21 companies have concerns doing business in

22 Indonesia due to intellectual property concerns?


252

1 MR. LAMAR: Well, -- I mean, members

2 will kind of wear two different hats. So, one hat

3 is the sourcing hat. As you know, we're looking

4 for a place and you want to find a predictable

5 place and they follow the rule of law and that's

6 obviously something that we value very much.

7 And the other one is, you want to make

8 sure that they are -- so you can produce a

9 product and get the product, you can get inputs

10 in, you can produce the products out, you can

11 employ the workers. We'll be able to treat the

12 workers according to the laws, et cetera.

13 I mean, all of that is sort of on the

14 sourcing side.

15 And then, on the IP side, you want to

16 make sure that they're not violating the IP and,

17 you know, the products are being knocked off or

18 that other people's ideas knocked off.

19 So, you want to, you know, we

20 obviously as good corporate citizens in the

21 country are going to be working to make sure that

22 they're improving that.


253

1 Is that going to be always the best --

2 we find that there are IP problems in a lot of

3 countries where we do business, including in the

4 United States, I might add, where we've found

5 online counterfeit problems here, too.

6 So, we -- when we encounter those

7 problems, we have direct conversations with the

8 countries to try and improve them. It's usually

9 the IP enforcement teams of our members that are

10 having those conversations. But we do spend a

11 lot of time trying to improve them as well.

12 MR. PAJUSI: Mr. Lamar, could you tell

13 me if any of your members have used Indonesia's

14 IP law enforcement complaint mechanism? And, if

15 so, what was their experience?

16 MR. LAMAR: I don't -- I suspect they

17 have, but I don't know what their experience is.

18 Because the companies that reported, for example,

19 less than stellar cooperation on enforcement

20 activities are really good at sort of availing

21 themselves of all of the different tools.

22 So, I'll go back and ask them and see


254

1 if anything like that happened.

2 MR. PAJUSI: If you have anything that

3 you can share with us later.

4 MR. LAMAR: Yes, I'll do that.


6 Have your members discussed having to

7 adapt their business models to protect themselves

8 for intellectual property right infringement

9 concerns? How so?

10 MR. LAMAR: We do that all over the

11 world. So, a lot of that has to do with, you

12 know, it just -- it starts with making sure the

13 factory environment is compliant. So, you know,

14 you're -- if a factory is cheating on IP, there's

15 a good chance that they're also cheating in other

16 areas too, whether it's child labor, whether it's

17 overtime, you know, bad factory safety standards

18 and so forth.

19 So, when you are going in to do

20 factory compliance, you are making sure that

21 they're, you know, that the supply chain is

22 intact because, you know, they're not diverting


255

1 logos and labels that might end up being used to

2 produce something, or that there's a third or a

3 second or a third or a fourth shift where they're

4 producing some knock off versions.

5 I mean, that's something that happens

6 in -- something that's a discipline that we

7 enforce in a lot of countries to make sure that

8 doesn't happen.

9 It is investing in, as I mentioned

10 before, investing in education with the countries

11 and the governments so they see the value of IP,

12 not just as something that we're asking but they

13 intrinsically make it something that they want to

14 do themselves.

15 And, you know, we have different

16 levels of success with different countries on

17 that. So, these are just a couple of areas, but,

18 you know, you have to protect your IP and that

19 means we have to expend a lot of resources to do

20 that.

21 So, that's another way in which we

22 really changed our business around.


256

1 MS. LAURY: So sorry.

2 MR. LAMAR: No, that's okay.

3 MS. LAURY: For the last and final

4 question, in your experience, how experienced are

5 your members with the GSP benefits? How are GSP

6 benefits weighted when your members are making

7 sourcing decisions?

8 MR. LAMAR: Well, so a lot of people

9 don't realize this, but the apparel, footwear,

10 travel goods, textile industry is a huge payer of

11 duties to the United States.

12 We import about 6 percent by value of

13 all of the products that come into the U.S. We

14 pay about 51 percent of all the duties.

15 So, we are always looking for duty

16 reduction or duty free opportunities, whether

17 it's in the form of preference programs like GSP,

18 free trade agreements for other devices that

19 folks can use to reduce duties.

20 So, GSP is something that people very

21 much like to use when they can use it. Of

22 course, until a few years ago, most of the


257

1 products that most of my members made were

2 entirely excluded from GSP.

3 Travel goods was added a couple of

4 years ago, this administration, it was kind of

5 partly done by the Obama Administration and

6 partly done by the Trump Administration.

7 And there's, you know, people are

8 talking about should there be other ways to

9 expand GSP to include other products that are

10 currently statutorily excluded.

11 So, there's definitely a lot of

12 interest in that. And we also look at GSP as an

13 opportunity for enforcement and, you know, very

14 much like the process we're going through right

15 now that there's opportunities to, you know, make

16 sure other countries and make sure the countries

17 that are participating are doing those things,

18 they're taking steps, they're constantly moving

19 forward.

20 And so, when we're in those countries,

21 we're saying, there's a benefit. I was just in

22 Cambodia talking about this with them a couple of


258

1 weeks ago that there's a benefit to this program

2 and there's also an obligation.

3 And, you need to constantly look at

4 the benefit of something that you can take

5 advantage of but look at the obligation of

6 something you need to constantly improve.

7 And, that's the message that we carry

8 forward I think pretty much throughout. And, our

9 members do that as well.

10 MR. HERFINDAHL: Well, thank you so

11 much for your participation today, Steve. We

12 really appreciate it.

13 So, that concludes our questions for

14 today. As I noted before, the post-hearing

15 briefs are due on the 17th of December.

16 So, this hearing is now adjourned.

17 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter

18 went off the record at 4:22 p.m.)

19

20

21

22



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35:13 158:9,21,22159:5 196:7

abusive 150:11acceding 30:8accelerate 114:13accept 132:18 178:18acceptable 15:5 104:1accepting 178:19access 7:13 8:5 14:2

15:8 50:20 70:4 165:9202:14,16 231:14236:8 239:9

accessing 225:3accession 26:4accessories 162:20

163:4,8accessory 163:10accident 97:16 98:4,7

201:19 202:18accidents 195:18

201:14 207:19 208:20209:9

accommodate 232:18accommodating 93:4accommodation 44:17accompanied 4:6,14,20

5:5 6:4,12 166:2account 14:18 149:13accountability 28:17accounts 60:22 108:4accreditation 18:20accredited 17:19achieve 90:2,6 114:5achieved 29:7 49:14achievement 228:19achievements 173:1achieving 23:15 55:4acknowledge 46:4acknowledged 76:7acknowledges 113:21

145:1 229:3acknowledging 231:20acronym 154:14act 81:3 88:2 106:4

115:9,10,20,21 117:4117:5 121:9,12127:18 129:6 133:20133:21 134:5 248:4

acted 73:9acting 3:6 5:3 7:21

81:12 106:5 154:20192:11,12 198:20204:2

action 22:4 35:22 47:2254:1 70:22 78:1885:17 90:2,4 91:2,16122:19 128:4 138:6138:19 142:7 192:16193:4 215:8,8 230:4236:14,14 237:4

actions 27:1 32:1 77:1282:15,19 83:1,6,1785:2 86:5 87:6 89:1289:16 90:3 92:10,14137:8 146:4 192:9,19216:9 218:13 227:7237:17

active 85:16,17 205:14actively 16:6 18:3 114:8

127:22 171:7 251:14activist 50:2activists 14:3 15:11

16:16 18:5 42:1748:11,18 50:3 57:1858:7,17 59:20 118:2153:13

activities 16:17 28:14135:22 136:7 159:17164:1 177:19 227:22235:16 240:15 253:20

activity 88:1 129:13154:10,21 178:6212:9,12 217:18

acts 28:10 73:12 83:2

89:11 102:2 103:6,13105:7 116:3,9,20117:7

ad 122:6adapt 254:7add 66:4 84:16 88:16

92:11 122:14 127:12130:9 145:8 147:19157:4 205:22 207:8253:4

added 70:8 167:4 257:3addition 45:1 65:2

73:18 115:12 153:1159:21 169:5 190:2217:11 222:6

additional 10:16 30:1234:11 39:10 59:2261:11 64:21 80:12127:6 133:16 153:2167:9 171:19 181:3183:21 185:16 190:18207:6 237:22 245:4245:17 249:14

additionally 39:7 50:17183:7

address 22:15 46:949:5 104:11 142:14155:15 156:11 158:17159:9,14 171:8 184:8235:12

addressed 30:4 105:1159:22 170:15 232:5

addressing 13:18131:14 142:14

adequate 8:6 14:7148:5

adhere 65:20adheres 114:19adhering 114:10adjourn 6:22 110:18adjourned 258:16adjudicated 76:13administerial 84:9administration 15:3

31:8 70:6,9 103:20167:4 197:3 257:4,5,6

administrative 21:1022:10,14 28:16 67:3

admit 13:17admitted 215:14adolescents 212:7

216:15 217:10,16218:21 223:16 225:1

adopted 174:10,12176:7 182:9 183:10199:8 200:19 208:17208:21 214:9 222:18234:13

adopting 212:19adoption 64:6adoptions 228:11adults 53:5advances 65:10advantage 165:15

191:15 258:5advise 82:21 83:21

124:9Advisor 2:2 3:8 5:12

6:10 210:20 211:8advisors 63:19Advocacy 3:1 5:16Affairs 2:3,12,16,17

3:10 5:10,13 6:3,116:13 12:4,12 44:2063:3 64:4,9 111:15172:16 211:4 230:14

affect 161:7affiliates 196:19affirm 62:4 74:21affirmative 78:11 91:20affirmed 74:10 102:8

139:8afford 7:22 66:16 135:3

135:8 140:10 141:12199:12

afforded 113:15AFL- 132:5AFL-CIO 2:9,13 5:15

6:7 62:7 64:7 68:4125:22 134:20 135:6140:15 158:9 191:3191:12,16 196:9197:3

AFL-CIO's 135:2145:10,22

afternoon 111:5,7122:22 131:5 132:4134:22 146:8 157:22172:10 181:17 199:6216:8 223:5 224:12226:10 233:2

age 211:21,22 212:5,8215:12 223:9 224:8224:14,19

agencies 31:15,2233:15,20 45:7 240:9

agency 11:21 33:13,14180:16 217:3 228:16235:3

agenda 8:9 10:5 14:1919:6 25:16 61:1593:13 111:5,6 172:1185:4 189:10 209:18

ages 212:8,10 217:11217:17 223:13

ago 19:8 38:6 94:3,11


260

109:7 241:3 256:22257:4 258:1

agree 58:5,12 204:22agreed 38:12 94:10

95:21 229:17 235:8agreement 25:4 94:2

179:3 189:6 198:8199:1 229:18 235:10

agreements 151:9183:9 200:4 214:2256:18

agrees 106:13 158:11Agri-Tech 24:12agricultural 16:8 23:11

25:8 36:14 56:1,560:21 108:2 112:12112:13,15 135:14142:19

agriculture 1:16 11:1860:16 108:4 126:4161:14

Agrio 89:5,10ahead 11:7 30:5 61:18

120:5 191:7aimed 16:11 17:9 22:9

23:15 28:16aims 66:18 212:18

230:9Akaltynsky 42:5Al-Hamza 2:2 4:15Al-Jamaly 2:2 4:15al-Rubaye 64:3Alberto 2:11 6:12allegations 158:8alleged 61:22alleging 153:2alleviate 152:7alliance 137:14 189:10

237:16 239:7allied 27:17allocated 20:17 37:13allow 95:7 109:10 124:5

124:9 142:3 159:13219:6 223:12,17

allowances 21:18allowed 86:22 88:10

112:13 144:4 217:13allowing 73:9 79:18

93:2 226:18allows 66:1 125:18

135:11 136:6 138:3149:16 219:3 232:1

alluded 152:4 154:6alter 106:22altering 56:7alternative 185:15Ambassador 2:3 3:14

3:16 4:4,13,17 12:16

13:8 29:19 33:9 37:839:13 40:11 53:1860:6 61:18 62:3 67:1668:7 93:7,10 109:17110:16 210:21 219:22

ambitious 212:18amend 113:19 121:9

133:9 223:16 232:3amended 30:16 120:2amending 121:12amendment 155:17

156:5 179:11 227:9amendments 22:8

146:12 151:4 160:1174:7 179:8 188:18189:14

amends 175:2America 18:16,21

162:21American 2:18 5:21

6:21 11:1 24:22 97:18105:3 162:17 163:11168:15 171:6

Americans 66:4Amir 3:2 4:6amount 32:11 103:13

107:17 169:12analysis 32:6 49:1

104:4 196:12Analyst 2:9 5:15analyzing 180:2 223:22and/or 177:14Andre 69:11Andrees 19:20Andres 2:20 4:19Andy 153:3anecdotal 53:12Angkana 3:3 5:5Annex 77:12 91:22announced 9:17 70:1announcement 130:2announcements 145:4annual 235:9annually 177:8annulment 78:18 99:15

101:7answer 9:13 29:13 55:7

67:12 86:2 92:22 95:395:19 123:20 124:17140:20 141:15 181:12190:19 233:11 239:22241:13

answers 39:7 111:9Anti-corruption 206:5anti-defamation 132:7anti-SLAPP 154:13,16anti-union 193:16anticipate 207:21

anticipated 114:4121:13 122:21

Anusit 3:11 5:8anyway 124:4 126:12

131:2Apart 37:17apparel 2:18 5:21 6:21

162:17 171:6 256:9apparent 126:19apparently 127:9appeal 127:15 152:19appealed 126:20appealing 137:8Appeals 104:5,6,10,13

104:20 105:10appear 54:9 152:20

159:12 170:8 220:11appearing 10:15 142:13

163:5appears 128:13 160:7appellate 74:9application 197:4applies 203:9apply 212:12appreciate 61:13 69:7

92:21 93:12 95:4128:8 134:16 225:17236:20 258:12

appreciates 111:18112:2

appreciation 53:21approach 18:12 24:2

48:12 49:20 69:2145:21 159:13 189:11189:12 208:13 212:17

appropriate 26:2188:14 90:18 154:17

approval 33:7 34:5,845:10 49:15 120:3122:12

approve 121:22 177:8approved 26:12 30:20

31:6,12 33:12 137:12192:6

approximate 181:3189:7

approximately 43:1851:20 52:8 97:16163:19

apps 238:1,6April 57:16Arab 64:14 66:14arbitral 4:16 7:21 8:17

69:22 70:14,20 71:373:5 76:12,17 81:2,1399:11

arbitration 69:16 76:2,896:21 97:1,13,17,22

100:2,5 101:4,17102:5 104:12 109:10185:9,10

arbitrator 102:3area 233:13areas 51:12 94:15

107:20 163:20 232:4233:9 254:16 255:17

Argentina 83:18 84:691:1 99:12 101:5

argue 145:16argued 123:16argument 125:22 143:4

144:19 151:15 206:13207:3

arguments 82:12 95:11190:14 206:1 207:4

arising 98:13army 42:6arrange 18:2arrested 57:19Article 91:5 181:22

212:3 213:17 214:15214:21 224:4 232:14232:21

articles 153:9artificial 201:20 207:2Asia 3:1 5:16Asian 12:4 19:2,2aside 100:9 195:11asked 44:16 87:8

150:16 169:14 238:15asking 54:14 118:12

124:12 202:21 255:12asks 11:12 109:9aspect 156:19 157:3

202:3aspects 46:12 72:12

201:1 204:1assembled 122:6assembly 19:9 26:7

31:4 122:13 143:12144:12 164:17

assess 216:19assessed 165:3 190:6,7assessment 190:4,13

219:2assigned 43:20assigning 59:2assistance 102:13

218:16 222:7 229:13Assistant 7:6assists 138:4Assoc 5:21 6:21associate 124:22association 2:18 46:19

52:13 62:17 63:15123:15 135:12 138:5


261

140:12 162:18,19171:6 179:2 183:9184:15,15 188:9189:6 193:1,19194:15 196:14,21201:5

associations 52:1466:13 186:4

assurances 66:17assure 28:22assured 8:4 38:14astonishing 140:5astounding 92:1Athreya 1:15 11:20,21

37:7 59:21 132:4148:12 181:16 197:16

Attache 2:2,19 6:19226:15

attached 30:7attack 85:12attacks 102:13attempt 194:13attempted 146:20

148:16attempting 138:12attempts 74:18 77:10

77:12 228:17attend 13:2,6attendance 121:6attended 117:20 124:20attendees 117:22

118:11attending 92:4attends 63:5attention 26:10 54:11

174:12 176:13attorney 77:19 90:3

103:2attract 46:14 53:1audiovisual 27:12audits 181:7August 38:6 72:8 81:6

104:15 167:19 175:9authorities 22:3 27:4

35:20 57:17 84:691:14

authority 28:2 45:1191:13 130:2,18 184:9194:1 227:21

authorize 212:7authorized 13:8authors 27:14,17,20Auto 137:14automatic 7:17 197:21Automotive 136:17available 9:21 52:7,10

112:6 220:16availing 253:20

average 165:3,6 167:14167:17 196:2

avoid 77:18 188:22award 70:14 71:6,17

72:7,9,13,18,19,20,2174:2 75:14,17,17 76:576:11,15 77:2,5,16,1978:7 79:3 80:22 81:1681:16,17,18 82:14,1683:14,19,20,22 84:1284:13 85:3 87:1,9,1387:14 89:2 90:13 92:996:9,10 97:3,4,7,1197:22 98:4,7,17,1899:18,18,21,21,22100:3,6,10,14,19101:15 102:6 103:11104:15,22 105:5,15106:8,8

awarded 96:11awarding 99:4awards 4:16 7:22 8:17

69:22 70:20 72:3,575:1,7 78:9,19,2279:2,9 80:7 81:2,5,1481:18,20 82:4,9 85:996:8,17 97:13,1598:14 99:12,13,14101:4,6 104:8

aware 75:6 83:15 96:20awareness 16:17 21:8

27:3 55:16 58:13222:3,22

Bb 250:1back 139:5 167:12

168:2 169:6 191:3220:11 245:14 248:20249:2 253:22

backpacks 163:3243:20

bad 72:2 84:10 101:19104:4 106:4,5 148:9168:9 254:17

bags 243:20Baht 139:17Bama 1:15 11:20Banco-Ferri 2:2 6:10

211:12 221:10band 143:22Bangladesh 158:21Bank 16:7 19:11 20:16Barack 103:19bargain 70:10,12 116:2

136:9 140:12 194:15194:19

bargaining 193:20

200:3 205:16barriers 239:8base 137:21 203:13based 24:4 42:15 57:1

57:2,2,14 71:14103:22 133:12 166:18174:2 177:6,12,13,22178:16,16 180:20181:10 183:14 187:20201:7

bases 138:8basic 9:13 15:15 135:22

154:8 193:6 199:10basically 23:14 127:17basis 27:21 99:11

100:19 101:3,14,17103:21 112:21

basketball 66:6Bassem 64:3battles 102:9BBC 44:22bear 39:2bearing 72:14 85:7beat 188:22Beate 19:20becoming 30:13 249:6began 117:18 139:14beginning 13:1 52:10

110:10 175:11 178:15184:19 195:16 200:17202:8

begins 223:21behalf 2:14 5:18 13:12

32:15 54:3 69:16162:19 170:18 172:15191:12 243:2

behavior 138:4believe 24:3 29:8 30:4

32:2 34:6 40:12 47:1055:11 57:8 58:1360:17 61:4 68:5,14,1983:9 120:11 130:15170:18,22 191:17221:21 236:20 240:8240:16

believes 88:14 158:15159:4

belong 19:20Ben 17:14benchmark 216:21beneficial 120:6beneficiaries 79:22beneficiary 7:18 8:3

101:2 107:16 159:17benefit 107:18 108:22

159:20 160:11 161:13231:6 249:11,12,13250:22 257:21 258:1

258:4benefits 7:16,19 66:17

79:15,19 81:1 107:14135:5 140:8,17145:17 158:8,18,20159:3 161:1,11,16162:1,7 163:9,12164:21 166:10 169:3169:16 243:12 248:17256:5,6

benefitted 163:10Benjamin 2:2,3 4:17

6:10 210:21Beridze 2:4 6:5 172:5best 23:17 38:14 55:7

120:12 213:19 253:1better 22:9 95:14 127:4

147:16 155:5 195:15207:22 247:22 248:1

beyond 196:10Biddle 2:14 5:18 158:2big 151:5 178:11

186:13,14bigger 172:17bilateral 70:15 81:22

93:15 94:7,16,19100:18

bill 31:7 176:14 182:21184:18 188:17

billion 71:8 79:6 87:597:16

billions 79:20bills 114:10,15 166:10binding 72:21 75:15

76:12,16 79:1 81:1381:21 82:4 87:13105:22 215:3 224:10224:10

BIP 97:19Bishop 2:5 4:22 69:14

83:10,11,13 84:16,1788:16,17 92:11,12

bit 78:20 79:3,4 98:1,5102:6 122:15 129:1235:19

blackmailed 73:14Blanco 210:21 220:9blessing 58:3block 213:22 219:16

224:2blogger 19:4board 49:16 75:6

125:19 149:9 222:14board's 72:16boat 149:21bodies 186:19 206:15body 144:13 179:11

180:7 183:13 189:16


262

204:20 205:1Bolivia 2:12 6:8,9,13

8:22 209:18 210:22211:21 213:1 214:3,7214:11,22 215:1,12215:19 216:4,13218:11 219:22 220:14223:15 224:7,15225:16

Bolivia's 212:17Bolivian 2:2 6:10

210:19 214:5 219:14219:15

bolstering 66:9books 151:17border 225:4 227:22

241:7,8,11,14,20Bordington 98:5bought 85:18bound 150:5 204:16Boychenko 2:5 4:8

39:18,19 55:19 56:857:11 58:12 60:4

Bradley 11:1,1branch 19:22 89:22brand 247:4brands 247:12brands' 247:4Brazil 83:18breaches 75:22breeches 187:13Bretton 2:8 4:10brew 44:16Brian 2:13 6:7 11:1

191:11 198:12bribe 206:22bribed 73:16bribery 71:13 74:6

77:21 79:7 86:14 88:3bribing 73:19 77:22brief 10:12 11:14 13:13

34:13 54:16 62:1482:13,15 89:3,8 94:2195:12,20 107:3109:22 123:5 129:5131:7,10 132:16133:17 148:14 170:5173:17 178:9 190:20233:12 237:3 238:22240:1

briefcases 163:3briefing 56:20 61:14

225:20 232:9 241:14briefly 198:5briefs 10:9,19 81:8

82:10 128:10 134:11134:12 157:14 258:15

brigade 225:8

brigades 43:21bring 53:21 231:6bringing 62:19broad 192:15 193:18broadening 161:2broader 58:10 94:18broadly 163:2brokers 156:13brothels 156:10brought 21:21 35:8

153:9 195:14 197:11buck 142:6budget 218:17,18

221:12 237:6budgeting 230:5

235:16 237:6 240:14budgets 221:18build 60:2 165:11building 120:14 181:2built 74:6 153:21built- 46:19bulk 141:21bunch 150:17 246:22burden 165:13bureaucracy 184:12Burgoa 2:10 6:14 216:6

220:19 222:10 223:19224:21

business 38:10,11 45:3112:7 169:5,18184:13,15 186:3206:8 207:5 249:9250:19 251:21 253:3254:7 255:22

businesses 9:9 109:4159:15,17 163:11184:8,11 185:6,18246:18

busted 193:12busy 13:5buyout 136:16bystander 74:19

Ccabinet 26:12 33:12

116:4 120:3 121:20121:21

Cabinet's 117:7calculated 139:10call 7:4called 180:16 182:10calls 71:18 88:15Cambodia 245:4

257:22camera 187:11campaign 2:5 4:8 17:1

17:12,14 40:2 41:1957:16 222:21

campaigns 178:18Canada 84:6 91:1 92:4

92:6capacity 26:17 64:22

93:11 104:7 120:14164:16 165:12,22181:1 195:8 220:22230:10 249:8,19,20

capital 24:21 49:755:14 233:13

captain's 149:22captains 149:10card 149:20care 44:20Carlos 2:6 95:8carried 216:18,20 217:2carries 219:10Carrion 2:3 4:17 93:9

110:2carry 79:2 258:7Carrying 216:14case 9:12 41:14 58:21

58:21 60:8 77:17 81:597:20 98:2 102:22103:16 105:13,17106:11,12,15 107:17128:12 131:2 132:11133:10,13 137:1138:16 148:3 152:6152:16,18 153:12155:7 158:21 175:20175:20 177:20 185:12198:14 199:2 202:22206:19 211:22 215:4224:10,11 227:1

cases 16:18 21:1522:22 45:6 50:18 51:151:1 55:2 56:15 58:2159:9,14 96:22 97:3,797:11 101:4 128:13132:8 133:3,12,14,15153:12 158:19 188:20192:22 193:7,9,11194:18,22 195:3198:13 201:13 202:15202:17,19 203:4206:10,22 228:17234:5,8,10,20 248:7

Cassidy 2:7 4:9 47:1654:20 55:6

cause 77:18caused 119:16 198:2causes 28:5 46:5,10

195:18 212:18 213:3celebrating 93:14Celeste 2:9 5:14central 12:4 53:7 77:21

228:13

centralized 180:10,11centrally 42:19ceremony 63:3certain 28:11 106:6

133:22 223:12,17certainly 91:19 153:11

159:1cetera 28:13 36:17

177:15 252:12chain 23:18 24:13

245:5 254:21chains 157:7 163:18

168:11 250:10Chair 1:12,14 7:8 53:11

54:3 68:4 96:1,5107:2

Chairman 12:20 25:1428:19 69:10 93:3226:11

Chairperson 47:16Chairul 2:19 6:18

226:10,14 232:7,13233:10,16 234:6235:21 238:7 239:13240:6 241:13 242:8

challenge 206:16214:14,15

challenged 104:12challenges 32:22 40:14

203:20 209:4challenging 40:3

198:15 203:7Chamber 118:3chambers 31:3,6chance 47:3 112:11

254:15change 45:22 93:17

112:22 119:1,5122:18 145:8 161:4197:6 198:3 248:16

changed 164:22 173:6255:22

changes 19:14 32:349:6 75:10 117:13119:6 141:17 145:4152:12 155:13 182:17

changing 112:15152:17

chapter 179:3characterized 185:12charge 53:13 169:17charged 153:16charges 59:7 132:22

137:16cheating 254:14,15check 197:22checking 149:9checks 139:15


263

Chetwut 3:8 5:12Chevron 2:21 4:19

68:22 69:12,16,2270:21 71:4 73:1074:20 77:17 79:10,1480:2 82:21 83:4,887:2,4 96:21 97:199:20 100:18 101:19102:4,18 104:12110:4

Chevron's 102:1,12,21103:1,5

chief 2:6 19:20 38:1695:9

child 6:8 8:2 9:1 14:2215:13,17 17:10 19:1221:5 22:13 40:4 47:1948:1,5,19 49:3,5 54:855:5 57:13 188:10210:22 211:17,19212:19 213:2 214:19215:18 216:20 217:6219:8,18 220:10,18222:8,22 224:1,5,14254:16

Childhood 2:10 6:15children 13:20 212:7

213:7,14,20 214:18216:12,13,15,17217:10,14,16,21218:2,3,5,21 219:4,12221:4 223:2,2,8,13,16223:17 224:18 225:4225:5,9,11

children's 222:19,20China 160:16,18 161:4

164:7,10,15 165:11165:22 167:3,6,8,22168:3 244:8,18245:14,17 246:2249:2,3,15

China's 165:16 166:2246:1

Chinese 161:7choice 41:18 125:1choose 16:21 56:10,22choosing 89:14 196:6chosen 132:17CIO 132:6circumstances 78:14

203:14 223:14circumvent 78:6 84:13cite 148:14citing 19:19citizen 44:10citizens 41:11 61:7

252:20civil 15:10 40:19 42:16

58:17 127:7 153:8,19154:11 199:19

claim 71:4 143:17193:14

claimed 195:18claiming 81:19claims 71:15clarification 130:1clarified 129:19clarify 10:2 95:16

132:19 181:19clarity 101:20clause 227:14clean 96:7 138:1clear 40:8,9 43:12

52:11 69:18 78:17,2281:11,20 132:16194:12 204:5 223:8233:20

clearest 193:9clearing 137:15clearly 87:6 199:18

208:11climate 57:3 61:6

250:19clinic 50:19close 16:1 68:9 162:13

178:6 185:20 215:10closed 78:16closer 221:3closing 54:3cluster 24:2 37:17CMO 238:14 239:2CNH 24:10co-founder 17:13Coalition 40:2code 22:9,10,11 28:16

65:13 179:9 182:13185:10,11 211:22212:1,1,3,3,4 216:15223:16

coercion 22:14Cohen 1:15 12:7,8 30:2

33:9 231:17 232:12233:1 241:6 242:3251:20

cold 42:8collapse 197:20colleague 197:14

199:16 200:15 201:10220:6 221:11

colleagues 53:19collect 238:14 239:3collecting 186:20collective 27:21 129:13

132:9 193:19 198:22200:3 205:15

collectively 116:2

135:16 140:13 194:16combat 27:11 28:2

237:22 238:5Combating 27:22come 14:18 31:2,4

39:17 61:17 66:2168:18 79:16 93:7107:18 134:20 147:16157:20 163:13 172:3191:3 226:1 248:22256:13

comes 80:6 122:19177:1 178:4 179:7187:4 189:3 244:3

coming 25:6 59:1598:13 209:20 217:12226:4 245:16 248:20

commenced 27:10commend 47:5commendable 236:4comment 68:3 70:19

102:16,17 205:22231:15 239:11 246:8

comments 19:22 80:16102:4 107:4 114:3115:5 119:21 121:6122:6,21 124:2 226:2231:18 243:4,21246:6,7,8

Commerce 1:15 12:813:2 118:4 211:2

commercial 2:17,17,193:9,9 5:10,12 6:1896:22 97:3,7,11111:15 164:2,14226:15

commission 20:22 97:4140:4 174:9,13175:22 181:5 184:17185:4 205:3,4,6,13,18206:11

commit 87:4,9commitment 19:13

29:9 40:7,8,9 47:5,2148:10 52:12 60:7 62:5105:22 106:21 111:20115:14 195:4

commitments 8:2 13:426:1 34:1 45:13106:22

committed 14:16 19:1024:5 33:5 38:2 54:456:16 70:9 74:2094:17 112:4 114:5179:2 183:8

committee 7:9 11:1533:11,12 47:4,1163:11,16 116:5,8,17

118:9,19 119:3,8123:8 124:6 126:16126:21 127:13,19128:4 136:12 140:19

committees 65:1common 103:16communicated 50:10

62:9 119:10communication 55:15

222:18communications 27:7communities 250:21community 19:4 214:2companies 24:1,10

159:20 162:2,11,12163:1 164:12 165:21166:10,14,19 167:3168:4,16 169:17174:18 175:6,15177:6,8,9 243:22244:4,15 245:12248:18 250:18 251:18251:21 253:18

company 25:5 70:173:19 78:13 82:2185:12,13,20,22 86:1,486:4 88:14 91:9 92:697:18,19 98:9 153:1187:19 245:18

comparative 217:20compare 165:6 216:21compared 51:10comparison 20:13

197:12compatible 78:8compelling 79:8compensation 32:11compete 98:21competes 160:18competing 103:9 105:1

106:21competition 161:18competitive 160:10

231:10competitiveness

184:10complain 228:3complaint 40:3 187:12

233:18 234:14 253:14complaints 21:13 50:15

132:14 234:3complement 221:11

225:19complete 119:21

208:13 224:19completed 63:20

118:16 235:18 240:5completely 100:9


264

completion 224:14240:22

complex 106:9 114:4119:4,18

compliance 8:11,15,168:18,21,22 9:2 22:778:19 79:16 80:684:13 96:8 98:12106:16 140:18 151:20159:19 163:21 184:2202:12 204:3 223:12250:11 251:4 254:20

compliant 159:18250:15 254:13

complicated 53:6 250:8Complications 98:20complied 82:6 200:4complies 65:14comply 30:17 70:20

72:3,4,8 77:5 79:1679:17 82:3 84:8 87:989:1,17 91:4 92:996:17 101:14 104:8105:14,18 106:14116:10 127:2,8128:16,19,21 202:20

complying 74:1 84:11components 164:18composed 179:22composition 187:8,8comprehensive 29:19

32:6 39:14 49:1088:18 109:16 114:19212:15 220:5

comprehensively92:13

comprising 117:2compulsively 76:4compulsory 224:15,19concentrated 164:18concentrating 53:7concern 15:18 94:16

151:5 186:13 203:16concerned 21:14

142:13concerns 31:19 126:15

129:14 148:6 152:7159:9,20 168:21171:8,9 184:8 206:9235:12 246:5,10247:19 249:17 250:17251:21,22 254:9

concert 171:16concerted 154:9,21conclude 53:11 119:11

215:10 230:15concluded 25:4 88:6

105:20 116:18

concludes 120:19258:13

conclusion 53:10 66:20105:4 113:22 161:22229:20

conclusions 75:12concrete 115:8 178:7

193:4 197:6 227:6229:22

condition 175:2 184:1190:9

conditions 16:4 20:522:10 28:5 44:1146:16 48:22 132:15136:3 137:10 150:12176:3 182:1 196:7202:9 218:8,10225:10

conducive 230:16conduct 16:21 50:4

78:8 85:11,16 103:22conducted 230:7 235:3conducting 230:3confederations 118:6conference 1:11 19:3

63:4,5 92:4 240:20conferences 51:4confess 13:20confession 73:3confidence 152:17confidential 49:22

203:12confidentiality 49:12confirm 43:16 44:8confirmation 178:8confirmed 20:16 42:4

75:5 99:15 100:11101:7 103:12

confirming 97:7confirms 15:16confiscation 234:22conform 160:2congratulate 191:5Congress 7:17 80:20

106:1 176:15congresses 118:4connection 99:17Conor 1:16 226:9consequences 89:11

180:3 190:15consider 56:6 99:2

116:16 122:2 134:8140:16

consideration 57:467:8 104:19 114:16117:8 120:3 124:3,7135:2 231:3

considerations 226:21

231:16considered 26:14 99:22

100:1 116:4 134:3140:6 182:14 214:3

considering 103:9105:4 122:7 131:15

considers 56:4consist 50:1consistent 23:16 52:11

53:2 79:12 84:1087:10,21 97:12219:15

consists 179:21constant 15:10 248:2constantly 257:18

258:3,6constitute 105:21constituted 102:5constitution 91:5

114:11 124:1 133:6135:11 181:20,22213:21 214:4,7

constitutional 66:2291:8,9,13 115:14213:22 214:5,14215:1,13 219:13,16222:4 223:7,20 224:2224:7

constraints 55:4construction 126:4

176:5 209:8consulates 45:8consult 222:1 233:13consultation 63:19

146:10,16 147:21207:16

consultations 18:9143:10,14 144:10146:12,21,22 147:12

consultative 147:22consumers 163:11

166:9,22 168:16231:7

consuming 114:4119:19

contained 107:1contemplating 133:2contended 80:20content 122:3 203:22

228:8 238:3CONTENTS 4:1context 79:5 103:4,15

159:11 192:8 196:3continuation 161:22continue 23:1 45:13

60:2 67:1 79:18107:21 163:12 193:3199:16 200:15 215:21

215:22 227:6 232:19250:22

continued 37:10 67:972:9 77:10 103:5147:8

continues 41:3 42:2196:12 101:9 119:14137:4,8 165:18191:18 194:3 215:18

continuing 22:6 40:1465:10 72:1 161:11

continuously 228:2contract 131:6,7,9contractors 66:5contracts 131:17contractual 188:22contradict 76:17contrary 70:12 102:7contrast 45:15 106:19contribute 95:14control 27:6 46:12

148:17 200:14 241:18controversial 86:13

87:15 88:9convened 116:14convenience 69:4convenient 76:19convening 39:21convention 25:18 30:9

62:16,21 75:13 78:21105:3 151:10,11,16201:9 214:6,19,20216:11 219:18,19223:10,22,22

conventional 214:19conventions 31:11

62:20 63:7,8,21 64:1664:18 66:14 107:1116:10

conversations 253:7253:10

convinced 170:14cooperated 190:9cooperation 16:1 94:18

109:12 114:14 175:17185:2,20 229:14230:8 247:20 253:19

coordinate 158:16240:18

coordinates 50:9coordination 65:17

247:1coordinations 227:10

237:12Coordinator 2:5,13 4:8

6:7copies 10:5copyright 25:19 27:16


265

30:9,16 228:5 238:12238:12,20

copyrights 27:9 227:13core 63:20 65:14corporate 252:20corporation 16:10

69:13,16 71:4 79:21corporations 236:18correct 83:10,11 232:12corrected 184:1correctly 55:20 64:7correspondent 18:18

18:21corrupt 71:21 73:12

74:4,10,15 75:4 78:1285:17 86:5,9 87:3,1788:8 91:3 92:5

corrupted 186:15corruption 71:13 72:11

73:1,7 74:11 77:2179:8 86:21 87:19186:6 187:4 200:8,11205:22 206:2,9,10,16

corruptly 73:9cost 160:10cost- 190:6cost-benefit 190:6costs 36:9 168:10

249:9cotton 2:5 4:8 14:1

15:12,17,22 16:12,1517:1,12,14 18:5 20:420:6,17,19 23:16,1924:8,13,14,15 25:9,1035:5,20 36:6,11 37:137:3,13,15,17 38:4,938:17,22 40:2,4,2241:4,8,12,18,19 42:742:9,13 43:11 44:5,1145:5,9,14,18,20 46:1146:13,16 47:9,20 48:448:6 49:3 51:10,13,1652:8,21 54:1,22 57:1657:21 58:3,6 59:3

cotton- 36:19cotton-picking 37:6

39:4council 64:1 114:14

122:1 124:8 162:20162:20 206:6,6

counsel 2:20 4:1969:11,15 158:3187:16,17

Counselor 2:4 6:5counterfeit 229:6 253:5counterfeiting 28:14countless 197:2countries 7:15,18 8:9

41:13,15 62:19 70:1093:19 94:6 103:17107:6,7,13,15,16109:8,12 110:12111:6 120:16 160:12162:7 164:10,21165:12,22 166:3,5167:17 199:8 200:9204:12 244:14,20245:10,11,14 249:10253:3,8 255:7,10,16257:16,16,20

country 1:5 8:3 9:1410:2 13:16 14:10,1516:2 18:14 21:6,1124:6 39:21 50:16 53:957:15 58:16 64:1486:22 108:16 117:20141:14 145:16 192:1201:22 205:4 206:15208:6 214:8 215:6,16221:17 226:22 231:13243:13 244:10,11247:11,14 250:2252:21

country's 99:10 101:2113:19

country-specific 9:12countrywide 160:8couple 38:5 170:3

211:5 237:13 240:7241:3 255:17 257:3257:22

course 14:6 52:22 56:790:18 95:4 101:16110:6 166:14 200:16201:18 202:11 208:15208:19 209:6 210:6238:17 240:17 249:11256:22

courses 65:4court 28:8 69:7 77:22

88:5 90:3,19 91:1497:5,8 99:3 100:14,21103:8 104:5,6,9,13,20105:1,10,11,15,18,20127:16,21 128:2,17130:14 131:3 134:9136:11,21 137:12139:7 178:8 202:22203:8,9,12,17,18215:1,6,9,13 219:13220:9 223:7,21

court-appointed 73:1673:17

courts 74:9 78:18 82:2284:5,19 86:8 87:2290:12 91:1,14 96:11

97:9 100:8,11,13105:5,6,8 129:16130:18

cover 36:9 37:4 176:1178:10 183:2,6,12199:22 201:9 241:5

covered 176:10 189:4202:5 209:9 233:9

covering 111:6 186:17201:22

covers 84:17 92:12172:18 176:4,18234:2

create 66:16 107:10180:15 213:6 230:16239:19 245:11 246:10250:8

created 26:21 109:6206:5 241:2 242:2

creates 245:17 249:18creating 24:12 26:18creation 112:2,9 200:18creative 228:21 239:20credit 149:4,4crew 149:13 150:3Crimes 28:1criminal 21:10 22:10

28:15 127:7 133:7,10133:20 137:3,15152:13 154:11 175:18234:3

criminally 132:12criteria 7:18,20 8:10,13

8:15,17,19,21 9:1,39:14 70:3 72:15 80:17176:2 178:1 187:20

critical 18:12 155:13177:21 178:2,4

criticized 25:17crop 37:16crops 37:14crucial 67:6 173:18crushing 165:13cultivated 38:9cultivators 25:9cumulative 192:18current 41:21 136:4

161:8 177:3 182:6184:4 193:16 209:11

currently 104:16,18113:18 114:13 152:19153:5 223:15 233:6257:10

curtail 152:12custody 152:6custom 227:20customs 241:21cut 141:7

cynicism 73:22

Dd'affaires 53:13D.C 1:11 17:21 40:10

62:4 226:16daily 139:19damage 98:16damages 75:21 76:3dangerous 79:22 192:5

196:7 212:14data 54:21,21 128:8

166:18 217:12 219:3date 85:1,5,14dated 44:3day 11:6 34:2,6 44:17

137:22 244:13days 42:3 43:21 44:12

44:15 59:7 76:1877:15 94:3 137:20,21167:10 168:1

de- 38:16de-monopolize 23:19deal 28:21 206:10dealing 17:9 40:15

211:17dealt 21:14 51:1Dear 54:3death 139:22debate 87:16decade 108:2 142:17

142:21 145:11,19227:4

decades 40:16 109:7164:4

December 10:9 31:342:3,7 70:2 98:8121:22 258:15

decent 16:2 22:1646:18

decide 57:1 90:1,5100:8 109:12 136:1

decides 91:17decimated 195:8decision 71:3 76:12

97:5,7 98:13 100:13104:10,11 105:10,11123:14 126:22 127:3127:13,18 152:5,9215:6 222:5 223:7

decision-maker 104:6decisions 28:10 37:20

52:15 55:14 126:16127:15 256:7

declaratory 75:14declared 77:17 164:9declares 224:3decline 218:2


266

declined 59:8 102:10102:14

decrease 55:10 162:9decree 25:8 38:7,7

222:18decrees 47:6decriminalized 155:2dedicated 27:11 220:17deduct 139:14deductions 139:16,20deem 19:7 105:7deep 113:18deepened 93:16deeply 74:4 88:7Deepwater 103:20Deere 24:10 25:5defamation 132:5,13

137:3 152:3,8,13153:2,7,18 154:11,18155:1

defend 86:5 128:1196:6

defenders 54:7defending 196:22

216:12 222:20defensorias 220:12

221:1,3defer 198:5deferred 70:22deficit 161:3defied 70:13define 163:2 177:22

179:11defined 31:21 177:18

184:4 189:9 199:18defines 174:14 179:4

182:18 183:11definitely 32:18 257:11definition 106:17

130:16 189:21definitive 99:22delay 79:3 87:5 119:16

160:7delays 138:6delegation 61:17 68:19

134:17 172:3 225:16226:1

deliberative 144:12,21delighted 111:2delimited 223:3deliver 56:14 166:12

172:12delivered 21:11 25:12

77:7delivery 173:17demand 84:18 162:8,11

195:15demands 78:10,15

democracy 144:11,17democratic 147:13demonstrably 49:2demonstrate 193:5

195:3demonstrated 196:17demonstrates 142:10demotions 22:5 36:1

51:9denial 192:19,22

193:10,18denies 138:5densely 20:10deny 123:14denying 97:6 109:5department 1:15,16,17

1:18,19,21 2:12,153:3,6,11 5:3,6,8 6:311:18 12:2,5,8,1127:22 113:2,9 114:22115:18 156:1,2,7172:21 179:10,20180:8,10 220:6224:13

departments 27:10departure 50:11 53:20dependent 164:7

245:22depending 139:9deposited 63:2Dept 6:13Deputy 2:6 3:5 5:2 7:6

17:8 23:7 60:12 95:8191:14

derailment 138:20describe 115:12 128:15

235:18 238:4described 37:18 94:22describing 44:10 62:11description 88:22design 163:21 166:12

228:6 233:5designation 9:5Designers 162:21desk 204:16despite 45:13 74:10

76:22 85:16 126:22137:6,15 160:20175:7 195:6 198:15

destination 50:12destroyed 192:16destruction 193:3detail 87:20 95:19

127:6 129:1 132:3134:7 159:21 213:15232:8 233:11 234:7234:19 235:19 237:2238:21 239:14,22

detailed 29:14 91:2295:10 126:18

details 9:16 77:13133:15

detained 57:19 58:2259:5,6

detect 26:21 27:8deter 21:5determined 127:12deterrent 47:2 248:9,10

248:11detriment 78:13devastating 139:21

168:15 169:16develop 78:6 185:10

249:1 250:15developed 107:5

244:20developing 7:15 107:6

109:8 160:11 173:15173:18 178:12,13184:22 250:9,11

development 11:2231:17 71:2 107:12109:7 112:1,3 113:8118:19 119:3,7153:21 165:21 173:22212:16

developments 18:14172:13 173:2 216:22

devices 91:17 238:1,5256:18

DGCE's 241:7dialogue 15:10 18:4

147:15 173:21,22174:3 192:6 205:1207:12 211:16

die 195:10died 195:13,21diet 213:5difference 19:18 212:2different 21:20 35:7

76:20 113:4 127:22133:7,10 144:2186:18 237:17 251:17252:2 253:21 255:15255:16

differentiated 20:352:22

difficult 65:9 68:13106:13,20 150:4197:1

difficulties 22:19 225:2digital 229:6 240:19dignity 212:15dimensions 174:19

201:21diminishing 37:14

diplomatically 17:3diplomats 40:10direct 51:22 72:13

253:7directed 56:11 71:20direction 185:11 187:3directive 183:10,11

190:12directives 189:10directly 159:10 213:2

244:3Director 2:7,10 3:1,3

4:9 5:3,5,16 6:14114:1,22 123:1210:21

Director-General 3:6Directors 125:20disabilities 225:5disagreed 118:14

123:10disappearance 109:4discharge 21:16disciplinary 21:17 22:4

35:22discipline 137:18,19,20

194:2 255:6disciplined 22:1 34:21

46:22 51:7disciplining 48:20discontinued 197:21discrimination 188:11

188:17,20 189:1discuss 51:4 114:1

129:14 192:21 203:12216:4

discussed 159:21170:8 174:3 180:5184:19 185:13 203:7229:21 236:2 254:6

discussing 120:15discussion 80:20

145:12 176:16 179:14182:22 189:2 240:10

discussions 205:12disincentives 42:20disingenuous 148:2dismantling 40:15dismiss 29:10dismissals 22:4 35:1,3

35:19 36:1 43:6 51:860:18

dismissed 23:9 60:13displaced 172:18dispute 102:16disputed 73:7disputes 28:12,12

132:9disrupt 100:18


267

disrupting 159:16disseminate 130:12disseminated 186:18dissemination 238:1distinction 81:15,17distinguished 12:21

28:19 39:20 47:4172:10 211:13

distributed 125:15distributes 38:7distribution 36:22district 42:5 49:8 97:8districts 20:11 35:15

41:22 55:12 60:15ditch 60:10diverse 163:20diversified 244:16,18diversify 167:3 244:8,8

249:3diversity 165:11diverting 254:22divide 101:21dividends 166:16division 65:8 179:21,22

180:1divisions 227:20Doak 2:5 4:22docket 9:22 10:3,4,10

68:5doctors 13:21 15:20

52:3,18 59:3document 44:3,4 56:20

130:18documented 73:4documents 43:15,18doing 54:7 74:2 151:12

151:20 153:14,17171:15 251:21 257:17

Dole 2:14 5:18 158:3,4158:5,6,11,15 159:4,8161:9,21 162:2,3,8170:18

Dole's 160:14 162:5dollar 79:6 85:19dollars 79:21 87:5

108:12 139:1domestic 74:1 91:10

98:21 105:20 106:1,7106:17 229:12

domiciled 241:11dominates 160:19domination 197:9door 200:11double 168:7 180:21doubled 20:13doubt 32:19 60:8 82:2Doug 69:14Douglas 2:14 5:18

158:2dozens 35:10Dr 64:2draft 26:4,6,6,12 30:8

30:11,12 33:12 63:2073:10 114:9,15115:16,19 116:3117:4,7,14 118:20119:1,8 121:19,22122:5,11,17 125:18127:11 129:6,20146:12 176:14,18179:16 184:18 188:17189:1 190:13 207:11

drafted 31:11 65:16116:9,20 132:21

drafting 33:20drafts 114:3dragging 86:4 142:6Drake 2:9 5:14 134:22

140:21 146:9,19152:3,14 157:18

dramatic 167:11dramatically 36:5 65:15

173:6draw 26:9 174:11

176:13Drinker 2:14 5:18 158:2drinking 52:4drive 42:21 46:10driver 52:20 107:12driving 218:13drop 165:19 166:1dropout 213:3dropped 165:17 167:17

167:20 246:2dropping 213:4drug 235:1drugs 235:4dubbing 239:10due 10:9 13:4 45:19

51:9 95:20 106:20110:8 149:4 158:20161:19 251:22 258:15

dues 197:21dump 149:12duplicate 187:2Duran 2:10 6:14 216:3

216:6 220:19 222:10223:19 224:21

duration 114:15Dutch 78:18 100:7,8,11

100:13,21duties 165:4 166:21

169:19 174:14 256:11256:14,19

duty 160:9,14 164:10164:21 165:3,9,13,20

166:10,15 249:12,13249:17 256:15,16

duty-free 7:13 197:5dysfunctional 147:1

Eearlier 60:10 64:6 71:16

122:16 161:15 188:7231:1 250:3

early 48:14 119:20230:5 235:18

earmarked 222:12earn 112:13ears 248:5ease 158:4easier 234:14easily 90:10 91:20

149:17 168:10easy 123:19eaten 44:14EC 136:17economic 28:1 67:3

79:11 108:5 112:1,3190:8

economically 23:12economies 107:15economy 65:21,22,22

66:10 112:14 161:13161:20 206:21

Ecuador's 69:20 72:1472:17 73:22 74:1775:16 76:14 77:18,1978:3,8,15 79:15 80:583:1 85:10,15 89:1196:17 97:6,12 98:10103:8,12 104:3,4,15105:10 106:6,19

Ecuadorian 71:7,2174:9 75:4 77:20 95:1599:8 104:5,13

edition 181:19educate 124:19educating 65:4education 65:2 198:7

212:13 224:15,20,22225:3 246:22 247:2255:10

educational 125:4,12125:14 225:8,13251:8

effect 71:19 99:21167:17,22 181:20182:3 192:5,18 215:4

effective 8:6 14:16 21:126:19 46:6 113:12148:22 165:3 180:14190:7 195:9 197:6237:19

effectively 21:12 22:1592:14 170:10

effectiveness 50:22effects 179:3efficient 205:5,9,20effort 45:18 79:20 95:4

156:11 240:19 248:2efforts 23:10 48:1 67:7

211:16,18 219:7221:8 230:1,22

egregious 72:11 159:6eight 62:20 193:1either 49:18 91:16

102:11 142:2 169:17171:16 217:17 218:9231:6

elaborate 170:13Elderly 2:10 6:15

210:22election 191:5Electric's 137:18electricity 176:5electronic 65:7element 96:9,12,15

99:18 101:9,21 104:2105:9

elements 93:21 94:1496:6 107:9

Elena 18:7elevated 194:6elevation 142:6eligibility 7:18 8:10

9:14 29:8 67:9 70:3,780:5,18 142:1 158:7160:9 163:6 231:5

eligible 145:17 164:9164:20

eliminate 8:2 21:5 28:548:1

eliminating 39:5 161:1246:19

elimination 220:17239:7

Elza 2:15 6:2embassies 45:8embassy 2:2,4,7,17,20

3:2,10 5:11,13 6:5,1913:8 17:20 53:15 95:9111:16 226:16

Emma 1:17 12:2emphasize 10:11

119:12 190:2 246:4employ 169:11 252:11employee 117:3 127:19

128:1 188:9 202:20employees 13:21 40:20

43:19,20 44:7 45:2118:1 119:14 131:12


268

138:6 166:16 174:16174:18

employer 15:4 128:20130:13 137:7 150:4192:13 193:11 195:2197:8

employers 54:6 65:1966:8,11 116:16 117:3118:2,5,5 125:6,8,13127:2,5,8 128:15,18132:8 136:8 138:9,12147:8 157:2 174:5,15178:14 183:19 184:14192:9 193:12 194:18196:18

employers' 52:13employment 2:15 6:3

16:4 22:12,16 50:14172:21 188:10 212:8223:8

employs 138:9enable 238:1enabled 107:20enabling 197:1enact 64:1enacted 65:13 106:1Enacting 64:15enactment 81:3encounter 253:6encourage 20:9 163:16

194:18encouraged 40:6encourages 140:15

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grow 56:10,22 57:6growing 20:17 24:13

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implementing 8:1 16:724:5 31:10 32:20 33:5151:17 175:8 177:13215:21 216:11

implements 222:2implications 182:6implies 101:13import 164:5,11 165:17

227:22 241:18 245:20256:12

importance 107:4138:15

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160:9 163:10 164:1,9165:2 166:4,7

impose 102:10 183:17imposed 89:21 99:16

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impunity 23:4 70:18inaccurate 148:10inaction 192:17inauguration 181:21incentives 42:20 46:20

52:19incentivize 79:15incident 73:12incidents 22:21 170:13

170:14include 7:20 35:3 91:8

103:18 124:9 131:12147:12,13 257:9

included 10:18 16:922:4 51:8 95:11117:19,22 137:20167:5 194:22 208:2208:16 234:3

includes 35:22 97:14217:7 219:17 225:3

including 9:9,20 22:1324:9 27:2 35:1 57:2159:18,19 63:7 83:1883:22 97:15 117:11134:9 140:11 145:3161:8 176:4,19220:16 227:8 228:20230:17 239:20 253:3

inclusive 63:11 114:19incorporated 146:13incorporation 200:20

increase 58:6 66:1108:21 113:14 160:16166:3 220:15 221:12240:19

increased 20:2 36:4,7,836:9,10 48:21 51:9,14108:8,17,20 176:2

increases 22:11 52:21166:17

increasing 109:2,5204:20 221:2 244:16

increasingly 204:21incrementally 178:13

189:11indefensible 75:18

76:21indelicately 186:5independence 49:12

196:17,20independent 14:1

40:18 42:16 45:146:19 49:15 50:459:12 64:10 71:10123:11 180:6,16

India 250:3indicated 32:13 83:16

129:11indications 227:16individual 51:1 245:12

251:18individually 170:15individuals 43:11Indonesia 2:20 6:17,18

6:19 9:1 226:1,20227:8,12,20 228:1229:3 230:2,16,19231:1,5,9,21 232:16235:8,11 237:20238:5,10 239:18240:9,12,20,22241:10,11 242:5,11242:13 243:10,15,18244:11 245:1,8,13,20245:22 246:9,10,12246:20 248:17 251:12251:13,22

Indonesia's 232:3233:4,5,17 240:3253:13

Indonesian 226:15227:3,5,19 229:16230:13 235:2 247:21

industrial 24:10 112:16164:16 195:17 207:18233:5

industries 107:13159:16,18 164:13208:1 247:10


273

industry 36:20 38:4,1738:22 45:20 148:16161:15 163:1,19164:6 165:10,14168:15 227:15 228:6228:21 232:18 239:20243:13,14 245:8248:21 251:14 256:10

inevitable 46:20influence 147:7 190:8

209:7inform 38:1 66:18 125:3informal 53:14 135:16information 29:15

56:18 65:8 125:4,14133:16 168:18 173:17218:1 221:17 231:22233:17 236:12

informed 13:5 49:1781:20

informing 90:11infrastructure 244:21infringement 227:21

228:13 233:22 234:5238:20 254:8

infringements 26:2227:8

infringers 27:2 28:18infringing 32:12inherited 193:15initially 118:22 122:16

199:17initiated 68:9 96:21

97:17 176:17 185:6,9initiating 185:8initiation 236:3initiative 91:6initiatives 145:3inject 102:8injunctive 75:14 98:19

99:4injured 72:19 195:13,21injuries 195:11,19injury 71:19innocent 74:8,18,19innovation 166:12input 112:8 119:17

147:4,18inputs 252:9insalubrious 212:14inside 206:11inspect 183:13 195:8

196:11 203:1inspected 177:10

187:20inspecting 199:9inspection 27:6,10 65:1

65:7 148:18 173:12

173:14 177:13,18179:20 180:4,15186:18 187:17,18,19189:4,17 192:4 195:7196:4 199:7,11200:18 201:1 203:4,5204:2,12,13 206:1,14207:7 209:12 219:10

inspections 16:22151:19 175:9 180:3202:21 206:20 219:10221:16

inspector 202:15,22203:9 221:1,5,13

inspector's 221:14inspectorate 176:22

179:19 181:2 183:22185:15 186:9 187:9191:22 192:2 199:22200:5,12 220:12

inspectorates 173:2,19inspectors 50:16 64:21

65:3 179:22 180:7,22181:4,9 184:9 186:6202:4,21 220:15221:19

inspectors' 65:6instance 99:9 101:1

149:5 153:20instances 126:18

158:17institute 154:12instituted 130:6institutes 106:2institution 6:15 185:16institutional 2:11 26:17

173:19 179:18 217:4institutionalization

172:14institutionalized

204:15institutions 213:9

218:19 219:9 221:8instrument 208:22instruments 63:1insult 144:16intact 254:22integrated 118:20

208:13 227:17integration 2:12 6:13

114:2 119:18,21211:2

integrity 50:9intellectual 4:3 6:17 8:7

8:12 9:3 13:15 25:1628:3,8,17 29:20,2232:12 34:11 39:15226:20 227:2 235:13

237:16,19 239:6241:19 246:19 251:22254:8

intend 100:18 150:8221:22

intended 80:21 129:12177:9

intends 67:1intensive 65:3 174:6,8

175:17 185:1intensively 181:7Inter- 105:2interact 27:3interagency 7:8 26:20

31:22 148:18 227:9230:4 237:7,12

interest 34:10 67:1774:5 76:20 84:1488:20 109:20 139:1139:10 157:11 162:1169:20 230:16 257:12

interested 115:15 130:6interests 14:17 29:4interference 136:6

197:9interim 74:22 75:7

80:22 81:2,17 106:7Interior 113:2interlinked 201:13interlopers 27:4internal 44:20 51:15

104:8 105:15 236:13internally 172:18international 3:3 4:8,10

5:6 11:21 15:9 16:1016:13 19:2 21:3 22:822:20 31:10 40:1 41:542:17 45:8 49:15 50:150:11 62:15 63:465:20 66:3,13,1970:14 71:9 74:13 84:496:13,18 98:9,12,22101:10 103:9,14105:2,15,21,22 106:6106:21 107:8 115:11140:3 142:21 158:13184:2 190:10 214:1222:1,13 227:10237:15 239:6

internationally 7:2262:5 83:2 113:16114:6 135:3,9 140:10141:13 160:3 191:19192:20 194:14 195:4

internet 27:2,9interpret 209:22 223:11interpretation 130:19INTERPRETER 209:21

210:4,7,9 211:12216:7 220:20 221:10222:11 223:20 224:22

interrupt 109:11intervene 102:14 195:2interviewed 49:18interviews 16:17 49:21

204:11intimidate 133:3 138:10

154:18intimidation 59:10intrinsically 255:13introduce 10:22 11:16

38:14 114:21 226:8introduced 20:3introduces 168:9introducing 24:14

160:1introduction 4:2 30:5

115:3invest 165:21 166:12

250:9 251:4investigate 133:17investigated 50:15

159:5investigation 153:5

235:3investigations 137:10investing 255:9,10investment 70:16 81:22

94:2 229:18 230:17231:14 235:9 239:17239:19

investments 251:1investor 228:9invitation 39:22invited 181:6 187:5involuntary 51:21involve 115:14 193:10

193:12involved 15:21 16:16

16:19 50:7 52:1677:22 92:3 151:3

IP 12:8 14:7 27:1,4,1728:4,11,12,12,1333:13,14 228:4,12,17228:22 229:4 230:20231:1 232:16,18233:17,21 234:10,14234:16 240:3 241:5246:5,9 247:4,9250:12 252:15,16253:2,9,14 254:14255:11,18

IPR 32:6 227:8,9,21228:2,10 229:13,17229:22 230:10,18,19235:8 236:6 237:8


274

239:3 240:11 241:1242:11

Iraq 2:2 3:16 4:12,12,138:14 61:16,22 62:8,1262:15,19 63:5,6 64:1264:14,20 65:11,1666:2,14,20

Iraq's 62:5 63:2,22 64:365:21 67:9

Iraqi 61:16 62:3 65:1866:9

irrelevant 103:1irrespective 23:3irreversible 14:12irrigated 20:20isolated 73:11 170:12

170:14issuance 77:15 104:9

104:14issue 14:22 53:6 55:15

55:15 60:7 69:17 81:281:4 88:6 91:13 94:15110:5,8,19 120:9139:22 152:8 156:16157:8 160:1 173:7177:16 178:12,22183:16 198:15 200:8203:7 204:10 206:11208:6,7 231:14 237:8

issued 33:6 34:2,1838:6 63:10 70:14 71:372:7 81:5 97:8 105:19176:7

issues 9:11 13:18 14:2017:9 19:6 29:16 76:1394:10 100:1 106:7142:14,15 145:19154:7 159:11 170:7172:16 175:20 178:20179:4,6 185:5 186:10211:17 236:16 237:21241:5 245:11,17249:19 250:17

issuing 74:14 174:22item 25:15items 14:19 31:20

JJ 2:14 4:4 5:18Jakarta 229:19 235:10

236:12Jamison 12:14January 17:11 195:20Javlon 3:14 40:11 60:6Jgerenaia 2:15 6:2

172:8 182:7 184:13186:7,11 188:3,14190:21 191:1

Jizzakh 24:20 41:22job 41:18 112:9,11

201:13,19 202:18208:20 209:8

jobs 107:10 161:20167:1 213:6 247:10247:13,14

John 3:1 5:16 24:1025:4

join 66:16 120:7 126:7131:8 135:20

joined 64:12 69:14191:13 197:14

joining 131:11joint 24:11 26:2 34:2

229:22 230:12journalist 58:21journalists 57:12 58:2

59:19Juan 2:6 95:8judge 73:9,14,15,20

133:11judges 78:1judgment 41:20 71:7,8

71:21 73:10,19 74:4,674:10,16 75:5,8 77:377:11 78:12 79:6 84:184:3 85:19 86:6,9,1386:17,21 87:3,17,2288:7,8,9,13 89:6,1090:7,14,19 91:3,15,1891:21 92:5,15 105:16105:19 136:21 203:13215:9,13 219:13223:20

judgments 99:4 215:1judicata 215:2judicial 28:9 77:22 85:3

85:12 90:2 91:2 96:1099:19 100:4 133:7

July 62:7 63:16 97:22164:8 167:15 195:20214:15 215:13

June 62:18 93:22 165:2167:14

jurisdiction 28:9 84:2jurisdictions 83:17

85:4,13 105:8justice 2:11 6:15 14:13

17:20 21:21 35:9 88:3105:15 211:1 213:15216:4 217:4 230:13

justification 144:9

KKarawa 1:16 11:17,18

55:18 121:5 152:2188:4 204:17 239:4

248:13 251:3keep 47:11 70:10

130:21 152:21keeping 198:9kept 70:11Kevin 2:7 4:9key 14:18 35:22 113:12

113:17 140:17 143:8156:21

kids 213:4kill 149:11killed 138:20kilogram 20:4kindly 251:4kinds 133:22 186:10King 2:5 4:22 69:15Kirill 2:5 4:8knee 113:18knock 255:4knocked 252:17,18knowingly 74:14knowledge 68:7 81:4

99:9known 97:20 138:11

154:13 194:17 213:22214:14

knows 209:5Kuntamas 2:17 5:10

111:13,14 120:19122:14 123:18 132:1

Llabels 255:1Labor's 224:13laborers 66:3labors 99:21Labour 2:15,15 3:4,7,12

5:3,6,8 6:2,3 113:3,7113:17 114:12 115:1115:9,10,17,18,19,20116:5,6,8,14,17,22117:4,6 118:9,17120:1 124:8 125:11126:16,20 129:6,20130:5 131:2,15133:21 136:11,12143:8 151:1 172:15172:21 173:8

Labour's 118:18lack 46:17,18 128:14,17

170:9 196:14lacks 192:1ladies 12:22Lago 89:5,9laid 34:1Lamar 2:18 5:20 6:20

157:20 162:15 171:6171:13 242:21 246:21

248:14,18 251:6,16252:1 253:12,16254:4,10 256:2,8

land 20:17,21 37:1356:4,12,13 57:1

landed 24:19landfall 149:15 150:12landlord 227:14 232:11

236:17 238:15,19239:2

lands 37:1language 82:6 123:20

211:11Laos 9:4large 14:11 85:12 164:2

164:13 249:7largely 48:20 164:7largest 7:12 37:15

169:8 197:20 198:16243:15

lastly 9:1 30:19 53:17late 122:15 128:6launched 153:1Lauren 1:17 12:14Laury 1:17 12:1,2 34:16

35:18 54:19 131:5146:7 184:5 199:6224:12 233:2,15256:1,3

Lavan 6:5laws 22:13,19 30:16

33:2 64:16,18,20 65:565:20 71:9 113:12,20115:16 120:2 132:7143:11 152:13 155:1159:19 160:2 170:10176:1 182:6 192:19197:7 208:21 220:11229:5 232:19 252:12

lawsuits 153:2 154:14lawyer 59:7 77:21lawyers 50:18 72:10

77:6 85:17laying 169:19lead 69:15 217:3 245:5leader 137:13leaders 138:18,21

139:11,17 196:16leaders' 139:15leadership 14:9 35:12

136:7leading 194:5 207:19Leaf 24:12League 64:13learn 120:11learned 204:15learning 213:5leave 41:17 150:4,11


275

201:17leaves 132:21left 42:9 150:14 168:19legal 3:11 5:8 26:18

27:3 28:10 50:1964:21 65:2 72:1473:14 104:7,16 106:7114:11,17,20 119:22130:2,17 138:8,14143:10 150:19,20152:10,11 170:9180:16 215:8 218:12

legality 100:19legalize 124:12legally 149:6legislation 21:3 22:7

32:4,7 35:2 151:17173:20 179:9 188:18189:7,8,20 207:11

legislative 90:4 117:13144:13 215:7 237:18239:5

legitimacy 147:9182:14,16

legitimate 74:5 147:10length 150:20Leonard 18:19lesser 59:13 244:20let's 144:11 167:12letter 62:11 68:4 75:20letters 90:22LEVAN 2:4level 5:8 22:20 33:3

40:6 43:13 47:5 49:850:8 53:8,8 55:1492:1 154:8 159:2173:20 179:18 180:12180:19 194:2,8205:12,16 206:6207:6 217:3 244:22

levels 193:13 205:17255:16

liabilities 152:13liability 21:11 22:11,11

28:16 76:3 227:14236:17

liable 34:22life 112:18 139:22

207:19light 54:8 71:1 223:14

223:17likewise 94:20 137:17

161:6limit 11:6limited 7:20 11:4 159:1

176:1 183:3,4 192:3202:6 225:11

limiting 136:7

line 29:7 53:16 63:20233:8

lines 121:10links 150:2LIPARTELIANI 2:19Liperteliani 191:13

198:11 200:16 205:2208:15 209:16

list 89:15 129:2 176:6,9177:8 183:3,5,5 192:5208:3,16 209:10

listed 9:22 14:19litany 157:7Litigation 2:21 4:19

69:12little 42:8 112:14

122:15 128:22 139:17161:4 220:13

live 225:4lived 245:2lives 195:18living 112:6 113:15

132:15LLC 2:22 158:3LLIT 136:18LLP 2:5,14 4:21,22 5:18loans 36:15local 22:2 27:3 35:19

42:17 44:19 50:255:13 59:2 136:12189:7 228:8 232:2239:9

locked 44:15log 149:22logistical 9:16logos 255:1long 30:13 66:21 142:4

142:12 151:9 169:4183:4 194:17 204:13212:20

long- 72:1long-standing 110:5longer 14:22 15:18

70:22 121:9 145:12145:15 193:14 229:7

look 47:14 80:7 81:982:12 144:10 150:17167:12 209:1 216:16247:4 248:18 257:12258:3,5

looked 88:5looking 8:8 9:11 120:5

147:17 171:15 200:5245:7 249:15 252:3256:15

looks 220:22lose 47:7 163:6 169:18

246:13 251:1

losing 231:9loss 109:3 160:14

161:19 207:19lost 29:11 251:13lot 12:15 30:4 32:3

134:7 150:9,22 155:3171:1 200:3 204:13207:13 208:5,8,12229:12 236:9,15243:3,4,11 245:9249:21 250:9 251:4,7251:8 253:2,11254:11 255:7,19256:8 257:11

lower 20:11 156:17166:10,11,22

LRA 113:20 115:20129:20 143:8

LRC 127:3,4,6luggage 163:3 169:4,11Lunch 52:6

Mma'am 131:18machinery 25:9machines 24:9 36:17macro 141:21Maier 1:18 12:5,5main 21:2 55:3 75:10

107:9 177:16 202:3204:1 207:3 212:2217:15

maintain 140:8 161:12182:18

maintaining 15:10 18:474:15 175:16

major 43:15 63:18169:7 173:17 207:18

majority 51:15making 23:20 36:10

87:18 143:1,2 160:10164:20 169:7 254:12254:20 256:6

Malohat 18:7manage 38:18 136:5

205:8management 27:21

148:17 194:6managers 51:6 194:2mandate 115:14 202:4

209:11 217:2 218:13mandates 175:13mandatory 175:8,13MANDELL 1:17 80:14

82:8 84:22 88:20Manges 4:21manifest 78:16manner 106:5 107:22

159:6manning 28:15manufactured 74:7manufacturer 169:11manufacturers 231:8manufacturing 137:2

163:22 232:2,16map 169:7March 116:13 122:5

174:13 195:12margins 168:12MARIDETH 2:22market 7:14 24:6 45:4

70:4 163:1 164:11165:17 166:2,3 229:8229:9 231:13 236:8239:9 251:15

market-driven 56:2157:7

marketing 163:21markets 8:6 160:20

246:6,8,9mass 13:22massive 41:4 139:8materials 164:17 229:7matter 84:13 95:3

110:20 141:8 156:14224:6 258:17

mayors 22:2 35:15mean 31:17 109:3

130:11 142:18 149:3149:14 150:17 155:16156:17 157:4 165:20166:10 183:20 201:8205:2 206:19 232:15236:5,13,14 251:17252:1,13 255:5

meaning 43:21 82:5151:21

meaningful 115:15147:1

means 26:11 38:1943:5 110:8 128:3156:10 179:10 182:11189:6,8 202:11 214:6219:17 255:19

meant 148:1measure 214:8measures 16:9 19:17

21:17 26:21 46:6 48:771:19 72:5,19 158:12195:6

mechanism 24:6 50:1350:21 60:3,18 61:684:12 174:21 177:1179:12,15 183:14187:2 189:17 205:19207:6 228:4,12


276

233:18 234:14 236:19253:14

mechanisms 61:1146:18 199:7

Medellin 105:7,13,17106:9,10,12,16

media 15:11 18:11 19:419:5 42:17 43:1457:20 58:7,14 153:16229:10

mediation 173:21185:17

medical 45:12medium 212:20medium-sized 107:19meet 7:19 18:1 35:4

47:1 56:17 72:14 78:3199:13

meeting 8:10 9:14 13:717:6 59:1,4 78:5 85:894:3,11 116:14,18129:13 136:2 222:7229:18 235:10 236:13237:7 242:10

meetings 18:2 52:15,16103:3 204:20 205:7230:4 240:8

meets 16:13member 64:15 124:5

198:17,17 201:3244:4 251:20

members 10:20 11:1612:21 17:7 26:1528:19 39:20 47:4,1669:10 96:1,5 107:2117:9 123:7 125:19134:16 137:19 157:22162:22 165:1 172:10176:17 209:22 211:13226:11 244:4 252:1253:9,13 254:6 256:5256:6 257:1 258:9

members' 248:16men 51:10Mena 2:3 4:17 93:9

110:2mention 72:12 77:14

183:16 185:3 198:4200:17 204:10 245:6

mentioned 33:1 34:2135:6 38:1 55:8 60:860:12 89:2 98:15101:5 167:13 182:20189:13 197:12 198:12201:4,11 203:17205:3 209:5 218:19219:16 231:1 233:19235:15 241:3 243:3

245:16 251:3 255:9mentioning 108:1

122:16merely 144:16merits 71:4,17 72:4,13

72:21 75:12message 15:2 21:9

43:12 79:22 80:1146:2,3 251:18 258:7

met 1:11 35:20 44:1477:20 142:1 143:13228:19

Metallurgical 44:1metallurgy 176:4methodology 49:9,11

49:14mic 12:18 191:10MICHAEL 1:20microphone 115:5

125:10 226:2midnight 10:9migrant 118:10,13,14

123:4,9,10,14 124:4124:10,12,15,22125:3,5,13 126:1,6,8132:11 135:15,20144:7 153:3

migrants 125:19migration 22:15 51:15milestones 229:15military 42:10 137:21

138:8,9million 97:2 108:13,13

139:1 166:20 217:10217:16

mind 39:6minimizes 16:14minimum 32:11 139:19

211:21 212:5 215:12224:7

mining 207:20 208:16209:7

Minister 2:3,17 3:8 5:105:12 6:10 13:1 17:817:20 23:7 26:1144:20 60:13 63:2 64:3111:14 115:2 144:14198:7 210:20 211:3,6211:8

Ministerial 118:19119:2,7 194:8 231:22

ministry 2:10,12,15 6:36:13,15 18:20 26:1250:14 51:2 64:8 113:2113:3,7,8 114:12115:17 116:6,14,21117:6 118:17,18120:1 124:8 125:11

129:20 130:4 131:1131:15 151:2 155:19172:15,17 173:7180:9,17 206:21211:1,3 213:14 216:3217:4,7,7 224:22230:13 237:10 240:21

ministry- 237:10minority 51:19minors 212:8minute 210:13 226:5minutes 11:4 111:8

211:6Mirziyoyev 19:10 26:2

40:8mischaracterized

103:3misconduct 23:4misguided 102:3misleading 143:17misled 142:4mission 2:6 41:6misused 132:8MITCH 1:19 126:14

221:20 237:14 254:5mitigate 249:16mitigating 149:1Mitsubishi 137:17mixed 112:15mobile 221:14 225:8mobility 20:9mobilization 44:2 208:5mobilized 13:22 40:22

42:6 45:14mode 40:15models 199:9 254:7modernize 241:4modify 100:14modifying 23:11moment 9:15 11:11

37:22 42:2 56:9 199:3moments 213:16momentum 236:1,6monetary 77:8 98:15

99:16money 44:18 98:16monitor 18:14 27:1,8

50:21 58:8,18 59:18112:18 227:21

monitoring 14:2 15:1215:15 16:19 18:5 41:642:15 47:19 48:11,1248:19 49:1,11,19,2250:4,7 52:4 53:14148:17 175:4 178:16180:2 195:9

monitors 15:9 19:1640:19 45:1 59:12,17

monopolize 38:17monopoly 57:5month 25:3 139:18,22

167:19 168:1 240:7245:4

monthly 139:15months 31:17 38:5

122:2,9 166:6,19167:2

Moore 98:8moratorium 202:17morning 7:3 11:17,20

12:1,7 34:16,20 54:1955:18 61:19 69:980:15 93:5,9

motion 47:7 49:7 238:2247:6

Motors 137:2move 120:16 141:3moved 113:1moving 30:1 53:4 61:15

82:11 160:6 172:1207:12 257:18

mud 44:13multi- 79:5multi-billion 85:19multi-part 30:3multi-sectorial 220:21multi-step 113:19Multilateral 2:8 4:10

12:11multiple 17:22 85:13

86:6 131:17municipality 206:21music 239:21mutually 120:6Myanmar 245:4

NN.W 1:11Nakashima 137:1Namangan 41:22name 7:5 11:17 12:1

18:9 62:1 69:11 173:8191:9,11 226:14

names 138:12 149:7narrow 143:22narrower 159:6narrowly 129:17national 19:4 22:7 26:7

30:15 31:4 32:3,8,1033:2 77:17 82:2284:14,19 122:12140:3 143:12 144:12194:8,11 205:16217:1,6 240:3,22

nationally 217:11nationals 125:21 126:3


277

nations 19:9 64:13,15214:3

nature 22:22 112:14203:21

Navbahor 18:22NCPO 144:14nearly 36:8 41:11necessary 19:7 64:16

141:22 215:8necessity 177:6need 30:16 49:13 64:18

79:8 107:6 146:2180:15 207:15 215:16233:14 237:6,22240:13,17 244:21258:3,6

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notice 9:18 10:1,682:21 83:3,4,7,9,1684:5,19 101:12139:14

noticing 98:14notification 177:2,5noting 227:18notion 104:18notorious 246:6,8,8November 1:8 76:9

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NTN 137:2nullify 100:8,15number 10:3 16:16

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observations 42:1452:9 55:7,9

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63:10 68:21 90:1994:19 95:18 102:10107:7 128:16 137:20180:13 187:1,1199:12 213:2,9 215:8215:22 218:20 221:15

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239:1outcomes 19:22outlined 62:14 90:9outreach 179:1outside 57:14 85:2 88:6

164:15overall 57:4overboard 149:12overhaul 148:16overlap 187:1overnight 40:17 204:15overseeing 60:16,21oversight 21:2overstate 86:3overtime 201:16 254:17overwhelming 51:15

73:1 86:20owes 75:22owned 193:22 194:7owner 228:4 234:15,17ownership 228:9owns 193:16

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people-oriented 14:16perceived 51:22percent 15:21 21:18


279

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percentage 108:17165:18 166:4 219:4

performance 98:19Performances 25:20

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212:9persona 17:4persons 2:10 6:15

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perspectives 9:8Peter 1:18 12:5 18:19petition 57:12 62:8 97:6

135:2 146:11 173:4,4197:19 238:8,9

Petitioner 4:7,18 5:146:6 68:8,10

petitioners 126:17128:12

petitions 9:20 29:11pharmaceutical 239:21pharmacy 234:19phase 100:2Philippines 245:2phonogram 27:12

Phonograms 25:19,2130:8,10

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40:22 41:12,18 42:642:12 43:11 44:5 45:946:16 59:3

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45:5 51:12,16,19 52:152:21 53:1,3

picking 36:20 43:2144:11

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112:20 113:12 178:7192:8 202:17 235:17252:4,5

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92:7plan 176:14 180:21

222:6 229:17,20230:3,4,19 235:8,22236:2,3,11,14,14,15237:1,4,4 239:18

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217:8 235:16 245:5plans 32:1 145:3 213:1

213:12 220:14 223:15232:3

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72:22 74:21 75:9 76:793:13 145:6 166:13

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156:9,15 175:18201:20

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45:11 60:15,20 73:2275:16,19 76:14,16,2076:21 86:17 87:11,1193:13 95:6,15 96:2,18185:14 196:13 200:6211:6

positions 136:8 194:6,8positive 155:6 200:18

206:3 231:12 238:18239:1 240:17

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Posner 4:21possess 38:13possible 50:8 82:11

84:12 104:18 121:15145:16 161:6 224:4

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posted 10:8postpone 78:19postponement 232:2

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158:9 159:14 161:18234:4

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77:12 82:13,14 89:391:22 95:11 129:5132:16 143:3 145:1148:14 155:9

preceded 72:6precedent 152:10precedential 152:22precisely 32:3preclude 89:8precludes 24:15


280

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101:18 103:22 107:14109:3 160:9 256:17

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preferences 1:5 7:762:1 67:10 69:20 70:779:12 111:21 160:14

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presentation 95:1796:6 145:6 219:21220:5

presented 48:15 94:14121:10

preserves 66:7president 1:1 2:18 5:20

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price 36:6 161:18166:13 231:8,10

prices 166:11,22169:18

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161:15Prime 17:8 23:7 26:11

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120:4 121:22 124:14210:20

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171:15 207:11 222:15240:18

problem 55:21 110:3155:19 157:1 193:15195:7 202:13 204:14215:15,19

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142:18 156:12 163:15168:22 171:2 196:10199:3 200:21 209:3249:18 253:2,5,7

procedural 91:16procedure 133:10

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245:15 252:8,10255:2

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244:13 245:20 252:9252:9

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products 7:14 107:18108:9,19 112:8160:15 161:2,7,7,8162:4,5,8 166:13252:10,17 256:13257:1,9

professional 5:8 66:12professions 181:10proffer 232:8 234:7profile 208:7profitable 37:11 239:19profound 53:20program 7:13 9:5 16:8

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117:13 118:18 122:10145:22 151:5

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132:13 234:12prosecuting 151:19

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quantified 76:1quantitative 217:12

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96:4sanction 174:20 175:6

177:1,14 183:14,17187:2

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scale 13:22 14:12 20:341:4 85:12 141:20,21164:2,14 181:11

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submission 30:7,1555:20 76:18 77:1384:10 92:1 116:7121:8,20 123:2125:17 126:13,17129:2,5 131:22 142:8142:10 143:3 145:1150:20 155:9 170:11193:2 194:21 195:11204:19 233:4,21234:9,21 235:7237:15

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198:21 229:21 236:12013 15:13 71:192014 57:16 97:22

115:21 185:17 212:1212:3 213:18 227:13

2015 47:20 65:12 67:5116:4 173:12 179:21

2015,the 116:132016 97:2 109:1 228:15

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51:18 54:21,22 55:862:8 98:4 108:6,13,17164:8 165:2,16167:14,15 195:17215:13 219:12 227:19242:2

2018 1:8 9:19 15:14,2015:22 17:11 19:2220:9 21:16,22 24:735:14 40:20 42:7 44:445:16 48:13 51:5,1052:3,9 55:9 56:1559:1,16 62:18 63:1063:16 104:15 146:12166:19,21 167:19,21195:12 196:12 228:15229:15 230:12 232:1234:22 235:9 236:3

2019 48:14 52:11 59:16122:5,10 218:18220:21 230:4,6235:18 240:15

2020 16:3 20:212025 222:9205 21:1520th 139:13

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104:15 210:1300 57:19 139:17300,000 55:9301 167:6,22 246:7309 108:2130th 71:2 81:631 195:20 233:633 167:10 195:21350,000 20:1936 44:538 108:439 4:7393,000 218:3

44 21:18 108:21 245:214:22 258:1840 38:1041 195:18435 108:1345 179:1946 51:17 52:8 55:10471 228:22

55 166:6 217:11,175,000 44:1750 218:1500 25:551 256:1452 63:13521-page 71:653 246:254 108:13548 216:15557 50:185th 42:7

66 256:1261 108:362 4:12623 109:1650,000 139:966 137:2 195:18674 117:2168 63:669 4:18

77 4:2 51:19739,000 217:17746,000 218:775 135:16756,000 218:57th 83:10,12

88 77:12 234:1180 57:18 218:6800,000 217:21801 109:281 195:1782 52:6 165:1885 24:7 164:1187 52:5 62:16,21 116:11

99 139:18,22 166:7 193:29.5 71:8 87:492 118:14 123:9,16

148:893 4:16 15:21 41:8

51:16 228:16 234:1098 116:11 133:21 134:499 164:5

NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of:

Before:

Date:

Place:

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under

my direction; further, that said transcript is a

true and accurate record of the proceedings.

----------------------- Court Reporter

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