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    #1 Jan 23rd, 2006

    Johannes Eugen Rommel or "Rommel" or "Field Marshal Desert Fox Rommel" for short ( listen

    (helpinfo)) (November 15, 1891 October 14, 1944) was one of the most distinguished German Field

    Marshals, and perhaps one of the greatest military leaders of all time. He was the commander of the

    Deutsches Afrika Korps in World War II, and is also known by the nickname The Desert Fox

    (Wstenfuchs, listen(helpinfo)), for the skillful military campaigns he waged on behalf of the German

    Army in North Africa. He is often remembered not only for his remarkable military prowess, but also for

    his chivalry towards his adversaries.

    Quotes of Rommel:

    Quote:

    "Sweat saves blood, blood saves lives, and brains saves both."

    "Mortal danger is an effective antidote for fixed ideas."

    "The best form of welfare for the troops is first-rate training."

    "Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning. "

    "In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine."

    "Courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility."

    "So long as one isn't carrying one's head under one's arm, things aren't too bad."

    "A risk is a chance you take; if it fails you can recover. A gamble is a chance taken; if it fails, recovery is impossible."

    "There is one unalterable difference between a soldier and a civilian: the civilian never does more than he is paid to do."

    "What difference does it make if you have two tanks to m y one, when you spread them out and let me smash them in detail?"

    "The best plan is the one m ade when the battle is over."

    "In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."

    "The officers of a panzer division must learn to think and act independently within the framework of the general plan and not

    wait until they receive orders."

    "Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them.

    The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. T he smart and lazy ones I make

    my commanders."

    "Be an example to your men, in your duty and in private life. Never spare yourself, and let the troops see that you don't in your

    endurance of fatigue and privation. Always be tactful and well-mannered and teach your subordinates to do the same. Avoid

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    excessive sharpness or harshness of voice, which usually indicates the man who has shortcomings of his own to hide."

    "The future battle on the ground wi ll be preceded by battle in the air. This will determine which of the contestants has to suffer

    operational and tactical disadvantages and be forced throughout the battle into adoption compromise solutions."

    "Anyone who has to fight, even with the most modern weapons, against an enemy in complete command of the air, fights like

    a savage against modern European troops, under the same handicaps and with the same chances of success."

    "One must not judge everyone in the world by his qualities as a soldier: otherwise we should have no civ ilization."

    "The art of concentrating strength at one point, forcing a breakthrough, rolling up and securing the flanks on either side, and

    then penetrating like lightning deep into his rear, before the enemy has time to react-is Blitzkrieg."

    "Messages can't be intercepted if they aren't sent, can they?"

    "This business with the Jews has got to stop."

    ""What was really amazing was the speed with which the Am ericans adapted themselves to modern warfare. Starting from

    scratch an army has been crafted in the very minimum of time, which, in equipment, armament and organization of all arms,

    surpasses anything the world has yet seen."

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    Now, I have read articles that said that Erwin Rommel was wanted by the allies even more than Hitler.

    I wonder why?

    He never attacked civilians directly like other German generals or I haven't seen evidence to say he

    attacked civilians. Was it because he was one of the greatest tacticians that ever lived?

    And finally, if you look at the link i have, doesn't he look like the actor Ed Harris?

    #2 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 23rd, 2006

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    So two questions;

    Was Rommel one of the best tactians in world history?

    And does he look like the actor, Ed harris?

    #3 RE: Erwin Rommel Jan 23rd, 2006

    Rommel was a great commander and tactician, and that is why the Allies wanted him worse than Hitler.

    Hitler, as shown by his decision to invade Russia on the first day of summer, was a detriment to German

    strategy. This is demonstrated even better by his insistence that his armies be destroyed rather than

    withdraw later in the war.

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    Oddly enough, Rommel's reputation was enhanced by chance:

    The Allies had completely compromised German codes, and regularly read Rommel's orders issued from

    Berlin.

    Rommel would refuse to obey tactical orders he didn't like. He didn't like a lot of the orders he got from

    Berlin.

    So the Brits would set up to counter a German thrust ordered by Berlin, and Rommel either wouldn'tappear, or would appear in an entirely different place with unexpected tactics, and slap the Brits good.

    Which takes nothing from his abilities.

    He educated the American Army at the Kasserine Pass when he was in full retreat from the Brits.

    #4 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 23rd, 2006

    Quote:

    Rommel was a great commander and tactician, and that is why the Allies wanted him worse than Hitler.

    Hitler, as shown by his decision to invade Russia on the first day of summer, was a detriment to German strategy. This is

    demonstrated even better by his insistence that his armies be destroyed rather than withdraw later in the war.

    Oddly enough, Rommel's reputation was enhanced by chance:

    The Allies had completely compromised German codes, and regularly read Rommel's orders issued from Berlin.

    Rommel would refuse to obey tactical orders he didn't like. He didn't like a lot of the orders he got from Berlin.

    So the Brits would set up to counter a German thrust ordered by Berlin, and Rommel either wouldn't appear, or would appear

    in an entirely different place with unexpected tactics, and slap the Brits good.

    Which takes nothing from his abilities.

    He educated the American Army at the Kasserine Pass when he was in full retreat from the Brits.

    I agree that Hitler was a detriment. So, would that make him a great tactician because of his skill as a

    commander or for his not following orders from Berlin, by chance?

    #5 RE: Erwin Rommel Jan 23rd, 2006

    No, I think Rommel was a great general.

    I mean, luck always has something to do with it.

    As well, Rommel developed armoured tactics that were very successful, he was the first man to use AA

    guns (the famous 88mm guns) as anti-tank weapons, he predicted the Allied landing at Normandy.....he

    was the man.

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    #6 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 23rd, 2006

    hmmmm I've always thought Rommel was a good general and a pretty moderate Nazi... if there is such a

    thing.

    But you also have to take in account the highly trained men making up his army and the highly technical

    arms (tanks). So yeah he was good but so were the tanks and men he had. =-D

    #7 RE: Erwin Rommel Jan 24th, 2006

    All his quotes makes sense including the one where you shouldn't call your enemies assh*les but be nice

    to them.

    If its good enough for Rommel I guess then I should change my ways.

    #8 RE: Erwin Rommel Jan 25th, 2006

    When hitler ordered all captured Free French executed, Rommel refused to obey.

    #9 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 25th, 2006

    Quote:

    When hitler ordered all captured Free French executed, Rommel refused obey.

    Wow, what a nice guy.

    #10 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 25th, 2006

    Quote:Originally Posted by Jersay

    Quote:

    When hitler ordered all captured Free French executed, Rommel refused obey.

    Wow, what a nice guy.

    Could you picture a US commander in Iraq refusing a torture order? Don't think so.

    #11 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 25th, 2006

    Agree totally with you.

    #12 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 25th, 2006

    Quote:Originally Posted by ElPolaco

    Quote:Originally Posted by Jersay

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    Quote:

    When hitler ordered all captured Free French executed, Rommel refused obey.

    Wow, what a nice guy.

    Could you pic ture a US commander in Iraq refusing a torture order? Don't think so.

    Could you picture a Canadian 2Commando Commander in Somaliland refusing a torture order?

    Don't think so.

    #13 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 25th, 2006

    Quote:

    Could you pic ture a Canadian 2Commando Commander in Somaliland refusing a torture order?Don't think so.

    Agreed as well.

    #14 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 26th, 2006

    Quote:Originally Posted by zoofer

    Quote:Originally Posted by ElPolaco

    Quote:Originally Posted by Jersay

    Quote:

    When hitler ordered all captured Free French executed, Rommel refused obey.

    Wow, what a nice guy.

    Could you pic ture a US commander in Iraq refusing a torture order? Don't think so.

    Could you picture a Canadian 2Commando Commander in Somaliland refusing a torture order?

    Don't think so.

    Yes I can.

    Yes I can.

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    #15 RE: Erwin Rommel Jan 26th, 2006

    Ah Rommel. I wish I learned more about his tactics in my history course. Alas, we discuss diplomacy

    foremost and sweep battles and manoevers under the rug.

    #16 Re: RE: Erwin Rommel Jan 26th, 2006

    Quote:Originally Posted by Lifestream

    Ah Rommel. I wish I learned more about his tactics in my history course. Alas, we discuss diplomacy foremost and sweep

    battles and manoevers under the rug.

    They don't normally teach German history in Canadian schools. They only thing I learned (even being a

    German) was to hate Germans and consider them as evil. All I ever heard about Germany in secondary

    school was

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    Of course, there's a lot more to wwii and German history than that. What a racist education system I

    went through!

    #17 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 26th, 2006

    When you get into post-secondary they teach alot of German history, well at least in my university.

    But i agree, in Canadian history throughout highschool, and elementary they just teach about the

    Holocaust which wasn't even thought up to 1942, 43,

    they protray it like it was some thing Germans did immediately when Hitler came to power.

    #18 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 26th, 2006

    It's a shame Hitler had him executed, he would have been a good man to have in post war Germany.

    Check out Fox on the Rhine if your into that kind of stuff.

    #19 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 26th, 2006

    Yeah, from what i heard, Hitler gave him an option.

    Commit suicide or have his family killed. So Rommel did the only Noble thing he could do and killed

    himself.

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    #20 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 26th, 2006

    The six million kind of pales next to these numbers.

    WORLD WAR II FATALITIES

    World War II was without doubt the costliest war in military history. No truly accurate figures exist and

    estimates can be only roughly approximated. Somewhere between 15 and 20 million military personnel

    were killed in action and another 25 to 30 million civilians probably died as a result of the indiscriminate

    bombings, artillery barrages, and savage fighting.Military Dead

    Among the Allies, the USSR had the heaviest battle casualties, with about 7.5 million dead. China lost 2.2

    million combatants; the British about 300,000; the United States 292,000; and France 210,000. A TOTAL

    of 10.5 million

    Among the Axis powers, Germany suffered about 3.5 million battle dead; Japan 1.5 million; and Italy

    200,000. A TOTAL of 5.2 million

    Civilian Dead

    The USSR lost between 10 and 30 million civilians; China at least 6 million; France about 400,000; the

    United Kingdom 65,000; and the United States 6,000. A TOTAL of 16.5 million

    On the Axis side, 500 - 700,000 German civilians were killed; 600 - 700,000 died in Japan; and 150,000 in

    Italy. A TOTAL of 1.5 million

    ESTIMATED TOTAL CASUALTIES = 50 Million plus

    #21 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 26th, 2006

    #juan, I think Andem is talking about the Holocaust.

    #22 RE: Erwin Rommel Jan 26th, 2006

    If I can answer for #juan, I think he knows that.

    #juan just comparing the 6 million holocaust number

    to the number of dead allies and axis power military

    and citizens.

    There's a sense that the Jews have used the holocaustto further their aims and that the 6 million holocaust

    dead is a smaller number than what some other nations

    experienced or non-jews experienced.

    But the holocaust was quite an interesting abomination

    above and beyond the horrors of war.

    If this had happened to the muslims or christians you

    would hear the same efforts at ensuring the memory

    never fades.

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    And this wasn't just a genocide like that tried on the

    Armenians or on the Kurds or on the Bosnian muslims or on Dafur blacks, this particular genocide had

    peculiarities like bars of soap

    that used to be somebody's great grandfather.

    Jewish commercial over.

    And now we return you to this thread's presentation

    about Erwin Rommel ---- who I believe had a son that

    was Mayor until the mid 90s (?) in some West German town.

    #23 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 27th, 2006

    Quote:Originally Posted by Jersay

    #juan, I think Andem is talking about the Holocaust.

    The Holocaust is a very crucial part of German history. If Andem doesn't like hearing about it, I suggest

    he not study German history.

    #24 Re: RE: Erwin Rommel Jan 27th, 2006

    Quote:Originally Posted by Andem

    Quote:Originally Posted by Lifestream

    Ah Rommel. I wish I learned more about his tactics in my history course. Alas, we discuss diplomacy foremost and

    sweep battles and manoevers under the rug.

    They don't normally teach German history in Canadian schools. They only thing I learned (even being a German) was to hate

    Germans and consider them as evil. All I ever heard about Germany in secondary school was

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    6 Million!

    Of course, there's a lot more to wwii and German history than that. What a racist education system I went through!

    Yeah.

    When I was in university one of my Education Profs was German. We had a debate over a history

    requirement that the Holocaust be taught in European History as a separate section. He could not

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    understand why that genocide was separate and apart from the genocides of Cambodia, or the

    Armenians of Turkey, or any of the African ones, ad nauseum.

    My argument is this: The German genocide of the Jews is much more relevant to us, because the

    Germans ARE us.

    Germany was a modern European, white, industrialized democratic state in 1932, and it descended into a

    monster state with a coherent process of elimination of a race. If this could happen there, it could happen

    here, or anywhere in the West.

    If this was Cambodia, or Africa, many people would dismiss genocide as "those people do this stuff all

    the time, it can't be helped".

    But the Germans are us.

    Don't take it personally, it is not as much a condemnation of specifically German evil as it is a warning of

    the evil in all of us. No matter how "white" and civilized we are.

    #25 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 27th, 2006

    Quote:

    When I was in university one of my Education Profs was German. We had a debate over a history requirement that the

    Holocaust be taught in European History as a separate section. He could not understand why that genocide was separate and

    apart from the genocides of Cambodia, or the Armenians of Turkey, or any of the African ones, ad nauseum.

    My argument is this: The German genocide of the Jews is much more relevant to us, because the Germans ARE us.

    Germany was a modern European, white, industrialized democratic state in 1932, and it descended into a monster state with a

    coherent process of elimination of a race. If this could happen there, it could happen here, or anywhere in the West.

    If this was Cambodia, or Africa, many people would dismiss genocide as "those people do this stuff all the time, it can't be

    helped".

    But the Germans are us.

    Don't take it personally, it is not as much a condemnation of specifically German evil as it is a warning of the evil in all of us. No

    matter how "white" and civilized we are.

    So white people are more civilized then someone else.

    All Genocide should be discussed, not just the Holocaust, it is terrible yes, but the other genocides of the

    world should not be forgotten.

    Just because they were white-people doesn't mean squat. genocide all genocide should be taught and

    studied so that the point is that everyone is evil or has evil in their hearts and go to extreme lengths to

    end their obsessions.

    #26 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 28th, 2006

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    I thought Rommel was dieing anyways when his car was hit by a fighter fire and his recorver was.... not

    looking so good.

    #27 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 28th, 2006

    Quote:

    I thought Rommel was dieing anyways when his car was hit by a fighter fire and his recorver was... . not looking so good.

    He was badly injured from the attack but I don't think he was dying.

    #28 Re: Erwin Rommel Jan 28th, 2006

    Quote:Originally Posted by Jersay

    Quote:

    When I was in university one of my Education Profs was German. We had a debate over a history requirement that

    the Holocaust be taught in European History as a separate section. He could not understand why that genocide was

    separate and apart from the genocides of Cambodia, or the Armenians of Turkey, or any of the African ones, ad

    nauseum.

    My argument is this: The German genocide of the Jews is much more relevant to us, because the Germans ARE us.

    Germany was a modern European, white, industrialized democratic state in 1932, and it descended into a monster

    state with a coherent process of elimination of a race. If this could happen there, it could happen here, or anywhere

    in the West.

    If this was Cambodia, or Africa, many people would dismiss genocide as "those people do this stuff all the time, it

    can't be helped".

    But the Germans are us.

    Don't take it personally, it is not as much a condemnation of specifically German evil as it is a warning of the evil in

    all of us. No matter how "white" and civilized we are.

    So white people are more civilized then someone else.

    All Genocide should be discussed, not just the Holocaust, it is terrible yes, but the other genocides of the world should not be

    forgotten.

    Just because they were white-people doesn't mean squat. genocide all genocide should be taught and studied so that the

    point is that everyone is evil or has evil in their hearts and go to extreme lengths to end their obsessions.

    Exactly my point Jersay, white, civilized people are as apt as any other race to go over the line and

    engage in mass murder and genocide.

    There are lots of people that would tell you such things are impossible in our wonderful, progressive

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    society.

    Hogwash.

    That is why it is especially important to teach the Holocaust.

    The Germans are our reflection in the mirror.

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