EPISODE 10: BROADWAY UNDERSTUDIES ELLYN MARIE MARSH, BEN CHERRY, AND MO BRADY

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ANTHONY RAPP [shouts]: Welcome to BroadwayCon…

PATRICK HINDS: …The Podcast. The show for the theatre kid in all of us. I’m

your host, Patrick Hinds.

As an audience member, I’ve always been fascinated by understudies. I

remember being one of those people who saw Rent like a thousand times

when I was a teenager and I remember every time an understudy went on, the

energy was just electric. And the understudy’s curtain call always made me

cry because you could just tell how much the opportunity to play that role in

that show had meant to them. So now that I live here in New York City and

have friends who are understudies, I have some small sense of just how hard

that job is. And so, I’m so excited to welcome three of my favorite people to

the podcast today to talk about the crazy job that is being an understudy on

Broadway. We’re talking to Ben Cherry who just made his Broadway debut in

Fiddler on the Roof, Mo Brady who made his Broadway debut in The Aadams

Family. Mo is also the wonderful co-host of the podcast, The Ensemblist, so

do check that out if you aren’t already listening to it. And we’re talking to one

of my absolute best friends in the world, Ellyn Marie Marsh who’s Broadway

credits include Enron, Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, and Kinky Boots, and

almost Cry Baby. Okay here we go:

[SONG BIT FROM RENT]

PATRICK: Hi Guys! Welcome to BroadwayCon the Podcast. Morgan Brady,

you’re back

MO BRADY: I’m back. And better than ever.

PATRICK: You’re rivaling Lesli Margarita for co-host.

MO: ‘Cause she’s Lesli Margarita and I will just say yes to anything. Also, Lesli

will also say yes to anything.

PATRICK: That’s actually true.

MO: This is where we live. This is where the van diagrams meet.

PATRICK: So we are here doing out understudies episode, but the thing is—

first of all, nobody can see this because it’s a podcast, but Mo’s on the floor,

you guys. This is how dedicated he is to being here.

ELLYN MARIE MARSH: We’re in a corner and Mo is—we…we should snapchat

this or something.

PATRICK: Also it’s a thousand degrees in this little room.

ELLYN: Well, you’re prone to hyperventilate.

MO: You’re also a hot sweaty mess.

PATRICK: That’s true. Huh! That’s not nice Mo!

MO: You can cut that part out.

PATRICK: Uhm okay, so here’s what I want to ask because I feel like I don’t

have a handle on the difference between an understudy and a swing. So, Ellyn

—Oh wait! Let’s say who’s here first! Ben Cherry.

BEN CHERRY: Hey!

PATRICK: Hi boo.

BEN: How’s it going?

PATRICK: I’m great. How are you?

BEN: I’m doing great.

PATRICK: Ellyn Marie Marsh.

ELLYN: Hi!

PATRICK: My wife. How are you?

ELLYN: Literally. Actually.

PATRICK: Mo Brady.

MO: Hey, girl, hey.

PATRICK: Hey girl, hey. So Ellyn Marsh, tell us the difference between a swing

and an understudy. Is it always the same difference or does it per contact?

What’s the deal?

ELLYN: It is always the same and it is probably the question I get the most. So

basic.

PATRICK: You’re calling me basic.

ELLYN: I mean, read between the lines, boo. Uh, an understudy is someone in

the show; generally in the ensemble who understudies a part. Let me give an

example. Nick Burrows is an angel in Kinky Boots, he also understudies Alan

Mingo. He is an understudy. A swing—and you can understudy more than one

person, it’s generally one or two. A swing is responsible for understudying the

ensemble as well as principal tracks. So right now I’m a swing and I

understudy all of the women including Lauren and Nicola who are principals.

PATRICK: So you understudy all of the women.

ELLYN: Correct.

PATRICK: Okay, we’re gonna come back to that in just a second. I want to

start with Ben Cheery because you just made your Broadway debut.

BEN: I did!

ELLYN: Congrats! That’s awesome!

BEN: Long time coming.

PATRICK: So if I’m not mistaken, you were a swing.

BEN: I am a vacation swing.

PATRICK: What is that?

BEN: Vacation swing is somebody who’s hired just to cover someone’s

absences. So normally, and because this is my first time doing it—what I

thought; the vacation swing came in for specific weeks and was told they

were going to be on those weeks. In my case, they had me swinging like a

normal swing in the theatre for a month and a half. So uhm, I came in, did

some weeks for some people, and then I was also in the theatre in case

somebody called out.

PATRICK: And you were not in the show on the nights that you weren’t on for

—

BEN: I was not.

PATRICK: Okay.

BEN: I was in the dressing room.

PATRICK: Now. Will you tell us a little about your audition process?

BEN: Yeah. It actually happened so fast. It’s so different from auditioning for

regional theatre where they call you back and back and back and back and

make you sing your entire book. Uhm, I had gone in for the original cast uhm,

audition for Avram and I didn’t get it. And I went in once for that and it was

for the creatives. Didn’t hear back. Uhm about, I don’t know, almost a year

later, little under a year, got the call in for the vacation swing. I went in once

and got the call next day, so it was very fast.

ELLYN: That’s actually harder to book a job at Papermill than it is on

Broadway.

PATRICK: Is that true?

BEN: That’s true!

ELLYN: On Broadway, they’re like ‘you’re great. Bye.’ And I’ve been put

through the ringer at so many—it’s hilarious. Broadway’s like the easiest job to

book.

BEN: It is very very true.

ELLYN: But you know what I—

BEN: No, but it’s true. They just run you through this ridiculous process where

you sing everything you have. Basically you do every Shakespeare show for

them in the audition room—

ELLYN: Yeah.

PATRICK: I want to ask you—

BEN: —And then you don’t get it so.

PATRICK: I want to ask you about your level of terror when you got the job.

Because you had to like—you were under swinging for like five of the lead

roles, right?

BEN: Principals. One—Motel and then principals in the town. Uhm, I was

terrified to be honest with you. I was the only one coming in at that time. I

thought—I also pictured that I would learn the show from a stage manager,

uhm, that is not the case. At least it wasn’t for me. I learned it in my living

room watching the video over and over and over and over again, and to be

honest with you, that first week when—

PATRICK: Say that again.

BEN: Over again.

PATRICK: No…wait..I mean, how did you learn the show?

BEN: I watched a video on my computer and I learned the blocking that way.

PATRICK: Are you kidding?

BEN: I’m not.

MO: That’s crazy pants.

BEN: Is it crazy pants? See? I don’t know.

MO: Uh—what was the theory behind that? Like why couldn’t you have a

rehearsal?

BEN: I had choreography rehearsals with the dance captain and I had

meetings with the aconite director and we would talk about what I missed in

table work, uhm, so that I was on the same page as everyone, but all of the

blocking I learned from watching. Watching in the audience and watching on

the video. And I did ask. I said “Am I going to have a rehearsal?” And they

were like “No.” But it worked out. I mean, mind you, this is my first time, so I

thought that’s just how it is.

PATRICK: So when you went on for the first time, how did—did you know?

Were you scheduled to go on that first time?

BEN: I was scheduled to go on the next week, but I ended up going on the

weekend before my first week when I was scheduled to go on.

PATRICK: What was that morning like for you? Like you woke up and you

were just crying all morning, right?

BEN: You know what? At that point I wasn’t terrified. It was the first and the

second week where it was just me on on my own. That’s when it was like ‘my

mind cannot take this all in. I cannot learn these five tracks. And be

competent and and you, know, deliver.’

PATRICK: But you did it.

BEN: But I did! Once I got past those two weeks things got better. Also,

you’re introducing yourself to a whole group of people who have worked

together for seven months. They got their family going on. You’re like the new

kid. It’s a lot to take in those first two weeks.

PATRICK: Did Burstein make himself available to you?

BEN: Uh, I cannot say enough about that man. He made himself more than

available. He, not to get too ridiculous about it, but he is an angel of a human

being. He—

PATRICK: Incredible.

BEN: He was so welcoming. And on my first show, my first day on, he went

out of his way to change the blocking and grab my hand and put his arms

around me, and hug me, and say ‘We are so happy you’re hear.’

PATRICK: On stage?

BEN: On stage!

PATRICK: Ah! I’m gonna sob! That’s huge! Morgan, tell me about your

experience. You were—I don’t even know if you were an understudy or a

swinging The Addams Family.

MO: Uh, I was a replacement ensemble member uh, in The Addams Family and

I understudied a principal role.

PATRICK: Which role?

MO: The role of Lucas Beineke, the boyfriend.

PATRICK: And who played that?

MO: Uh it was originated by Wes Taylor and then Jesse Swenson replaced. So

when I was hired, I was understudying Wes and then two month later, Jesse

came in and I understudied him for ten months.

PATRICK: And so when—so this is interesting. When you come into a show

and you have to learn all your ensemble stuff, and you have to learn your

understudy stuff. How—it was your Broadway debut as well, right?

MO: Yes. So I had six days between my first rehearsal and my first

performance in the ensemble, so I had bout 20-hours of rehearsal over those

six days and that was just to learn my ensemble track. Uhm, I believe that

equity requires on the production contract that every principal has two

understudies? I’m looking around the room—so so I was—so when I was hired,

I was not the only understudy for Lucas Beineke. Uhm, there was another

understudy in the building, so they knew, okay, if Wes goes out while Mo is

learning his ensemble track, we have Colin Cunliffe who was a swing in the

show and also understudied Lucas Beineke. He knows the show, he’s been

with the production since it opened. We can throw him on. So, incorporating

me into the understudy happened in sort of the typical fashion which is uh,

rehearsals on Thursdays and Fridays in the afternoon before evening

performances. So I learned my ensemble track very quickly uhm in a rehearsal

room and then understudy track I was learning during the day when I was

performing my ensemble track at night.

PATRICK: Got it. And then, so if if the principal calls out, how do they decide

which one of you goes on?

MO: I think it’s different for every show. Uhm, some productions will say this is

first cover and this is second cover and they’ll say it. Uh, some productions

will not say it, but it’ll be very implied. That was my experience. Uhm, once I

went on as Lucas, the other understudy never went on again.

PATRICK: Oh.

ELLYN: ‘Cause you locked him in a closet. He was never to be found again.

MO: No no. Uh, I—I think it was because the other understudy looked older. He

could play the role, but the role was as a high school senior and just when

you’re looking on stage, this person sort of looks mid-twenties and this person

looks late-twenties, we’re gonna throw on the person who looks younger.

PATRICK: And when you went on—

BEN:Oh and then the third option would be some production are totally

equitable about it and say that there are two understudies, we’re gonna put

understudy one on for four performances and we’re gonna put understudy

two on for the other four performances.

PATRICK: Wow. Sometimes Broadway’s so nice. Uhm, the first time that you

went on, did you—was it the thing where you call all your family and friends

and everyone comes to see you?

MO: No, not at all. My debut, uh, I had perhaps twelve people in the audience

and it’s so weird because in the ensemble of a show, when you don’t have

anybody there, you can think ‘alright. This is s fifteen hundred seat house,

there are probably two people watching me on stage at any one point.’ Right?

But when you have people there, like when I was making my ensemble debut,

I knew that fifteen people were watching just me the entire time, so that was

completely stressful.

PATRICK: Totally. Krista Rodriguez phoned it in that night. She’s like ‘no one’s

looking at me.’

MO: There were three of us ensemble members going in, so that could have

been true. Uhm, but uh when I went on for my understudy track for the first

time, I didn’t tell—I mean, I told people, uhm, but I didn’t want anybody there. I

was so nervous. I remember standing—the entrance for the role was Lucas

and his two parents who, when—the first time I went on was Heidi Blickenstaff

and Adam Grupper from Fiddler on the Roof. I’m standing in front of them,

behind this wall, and the walls are going to part and I’m gonna walk

downstage and say a line on a Broadway stage and I was like ‘I can’t do this. I

literally can’t do this.’ I was so frightened. It was like three lines. It was not a

big deal, like of—it’s a very small role. It’s smaller than what I would do in the

show normally, but it just, the fear was uhm, I—it was petrifying.

PATRICK: So what happens the second it’s over? Are you just like then stoned

out of your mind on adrenaline?

MO: Well that entrance—that role was sort of like on stage for 60-seconds, off

stage for 10-minutes, on stage for 60-seconds, off stage for 10-minutes, so I

knew all I had to do was get through these three lines and then I was going to

get off the stage. Uhm, and so it was easier than maybe going on in A Chorus

Line, and you walk on stage and you don’t leave the stage for an hour.

PATRICK: Uhm, Marsh. Ellyn Marie Marsh. I wanted to talk to you because, you

know, you’re one of my best friends in the whole world. I’ve gotten to watch

this like trajectory. Like there have been times where I think your career is

more important to me than it is to you.

ELLYN: Agreed.

PATRICK: And the like getting a job is more important to me than it is to you.

ELLYN: Yes.

PATRICK: So let’s talk—can we just do a rundown on your career?

ELLYN: Oh God, it’s so sad.

PATRICK: Start at the top.

ELLYN: Like—?

PATRICK: Your Broadway career.

ELLYN: Broadway, okay. So uhm, you know, so many close calls, so many

close calls ending in tears. Uhm, 2008 I book Cry Baby as Hatchet Face as a

replacement principal contract, it does this amazing number on the Tonys

where it has the license plates on their feet. It was just—it was a sleeper kind

of year, you know, and it was like the best Tony number and I was like ‘I’m

joining that company, I can’t wait. Uhm, cut to getting a phone call on next

day? For—because I supposed to start on the following Tuesday, and I got a

call, I was on a cruise ship at the time vacationing—

PATRICK: Working?

ELLYN: —No vacationing before, you know, I was going to start on Broadway.

Uhm and they posted closing.

PATRICK: Horrible. I think I cried for an hour.

ELLYN: I mean—it was the worst. So I did not go to Broadway then. Uhm, I

then said to all my friends and family ‘Hey, guess what. I’m done with this.

Peace out.’ Uh, I got a Broadway show so I’m technically a Broadway actor

and I’m gonna go have a baby. Which I did. And I was like ‘I don’t care. You

suckers can do this thing, bye.’ And then my friend, Abbie, who works at

Telsey, she’s a dear friend of mine, and I was like four months postpartum with

Lola, and she said “Listen, I know you’ve thrown in the towel. I know that this

is going to fall on deaf ears, but there is more really great stuff for you in this

new play Enron which was huge in the West End. It’s gonna sweep the Tonys.”

I know, all of those who know the tragic ending. And I said ‘you know, Abbie, I

don’t know.’ And she—if you know her, she’s like the loveliest woman and I

said ‘okay, I’ll come in.’ And I came in with an I don’t give a shit—Can I say

shit?

PATRICK: Oh yeah.

ELLYN: I don’t give shit about shit. Bring it. I don’t care. My boobs were like

National Geographic. They were like out to the moon. I did not even care. And

I—the material was phenomenal and it was a phenomenal show and uhm, we

close with my opening flowers still in my dressing room.

PATRICK: So you were cast as an understudy?

ELLYN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah. I was cast an an understudy to understudy

some of the most amazing actresses ever. It was a phenomenal—did anyone

see it?

PATRICK: I did.

BEN or MO: No.

PATRICK: Of course they did.

ELLYN: Thank you, Mike Jenson. So—

MO: Wait, were you in the performing company every night?

ELLYN: No no no. I was—because it was a play, I was an offstage understudy.

MO: Got it.

ELLYN: Because that’s the way it works with plays. Uhm, so six days later,

they had cast Priscilla Queen of the Desert and they called me and said ‘hey,

they need a swing in Priscilla.’ I was like ‘Okay. yeah. Totally. Absolutely.’ I’m

gonna book a Broadway show after my other Broadway show closed six days

later and I went in and uhm, I booked it that day. But it was so funny because

everyone in Telsey’s office was like ‘we’re so sorry.’ Because I had come on

the back of Cry Baby on the back of Enron. Everyone just looked at me like

‘hey, girl.’

PATRICK: Hey, girl.

ELLYN: And so Bernie took me in the back room and was like ‘Hey, Ellyn, can I

just talk to you for a second?’ And he pulled me into the door and told me I

booked it and I was like jumping up and down and everyone was like ‘well

that show’s gonna close.’ Because like—‘cause Ellyn’s in it. Mayday. Uhm, and I

swung that. That show was about two years from start to finish. And uhm, I

was doing the workshops for Kinky Boots while I was doing Priscilla and then I

was onstage Jemma Louise for a year and a half and then uhm, I begged them

to make me a swing.

PATRICK: We’ll get to that in a second. I wanted to talk about Priscilla

because you got to go on—you got to go on in all those—for people who

don’t know the show, the three signing divas and then there’s other people.

ELLY: Three character women.

PATRICK: Yeah.

ELLYN: It was six women, yeah.

PATRICK: Yeah and like, you got to go in for all of those roles.

ELLYN: I played some of those roles more than the women who played those

roles, yeah.

PATRICK: That’s true.

ELLYN: That’s true.

PATRICK: And uh—

ELLYN: That’s true.

PATRICK: I have two questions here. One might be controversial, but the first

one is like how did you handle the pressure? Because like Ben in Fiddler, there

were like the Divas all have like opposite choreography and opposite

harmonies and all of that. How did you do that? How did you know how to do

that?

ELLYN: Until it was in my body, uhm, and we did have first and second covers.

It was me and Esther Stilwell and we did have. Ellyn you’re Diva 1 cover,

Marian and Cynthia, you know, so we definitley knew. It Stacey was out,

Esther was going on, I got the night out. If Ashley was out, I was for sure on.

So that was actually really good. And I think that helped stage management

too. Everything was so equal, it didn’t really matter, you know. That was fine.

That was really really helpful for us. Uhm, in—you’re totally right. Everything

was opposite, and I —I would say, there was a part where we all wove, we

crossed. Like Jan Lane’s furthest down stage, then Jessica, then Stacey, then

Jackie, and I would go [gasps] and I would be singing and I would be smiling

and say ‘okay, go upstage of Jackie, go downstage of Stacey, and smile!’ And

then your right arm goes up and I would talk myself through things. ‘And are

you on eight? Yes ‘m on eight! Okay. Now which way do I turn, I turn right.

Let’s turn right.’ And I’d have to coach myself through number by number.

PATRICK: Here’s a question that’s kind of controversial that I want to speak to

each of you. And we can speak completely and general terms. I’m curious to

know how you feel you’e been treated as an understudy or in general how

understudies are treated. Are—‘cause to me, I think it’s the hardest job, so I

would imagine you guys are treated really well. I feel like that’s not always the

case. Mo, you go first. How do you think, in general, understudies are treated?

MO: Well you’re already part of this top 1% of your industry, right? You’re

already on Broadway, so from an outside perspective, I think you’re doing

really well, right? You’re making production contract minimum at least, I

mean, the thing about going on as an understudy is you also get a pay bump.

So I wanted to go on as the Lucas Beineke understudy not only to show my

chops and be like a good member of the team, but I wanted 300 extra dollars

that day. So it—I mean, that money helped me pay for my wedding. So I—you

—yes, you want to go on. Are you treated with respect? Uhm, yes and no. Uh

we had a really great stage management team, uhm, at The Addams Family

that I felt really supported by, uhm, we did have staging rehearsals so I felt

like I knew what I was supposed to do. Uhm, our associate director was

phenomenal and did something I think was really beautiful. Which was

allowed—told me the box I needed to fit my performance in to make the rest

of the show happen, but would coach me into how I could provide my own

interpretation within that box. So he would sometimes say ‘that choice isn’t

going to work because the actor you’re playing off of is expecting this kind of

set up for their laugh, however, the way that you’re doing this section, kind of

differently, cool, let’s try it. Let’s see how it goes.’

PATRICK: That’s amazing.

MO: Which—yeah. His name is Steve Bebout. He’s a fantastic associate

director.

ELLYN: He’s awesome.

MO: He’s on uh, Something Ro—

ELLYN: His wife is in Kinky Boots.

MO: Yeah.

ELLYN: They’re an awesome family.

MO: Yes, he’s currently the associate on Something Rotten and Book of

Mormon. He’s insanely wonderful, uhm, but I’ll say, Jerry Zaks, who eventually

got me the job, I’m pretty sure he had no idea who I was. Like I would pass

him in the stairwells backstage, and granted, I played this ancestor and I had a

crazy wig and I had a crazy costume, and I had a crazy costume, but like,

overtime I would pass him, he looked right through me. So ‘A’ I was like ‘thank

you for this job. And thank you for the legacy that you’ve done. You’ve

directed all these incredible Broadway shows. I have a ton of respect for you,

but you have no idea who I am.’

PATRICK: Right.

MO: Which is sort of a weird feeling. You know, as actors, we’re emotional

people. We like to delve into the nuances of interactions like ‘oh my God, he’s

never going to hire me again.’ Uhm, so I would—did I feel respected? I would

say yes and no.

PATRICK: Okay. Ellyn Marsh? And you’ve been in a bunch of shows, so you

don’t have to talk about any one in particular, but—

ELLYN: Yeah, uhm, Kinky Boots, I’m going to put Kinky Boots aside because

it’s different. I started as an original company member and you have a whole

other level of uhm connection with the creative team and with your

producers, you know, Cyndi Lauper does not know the replacements, you

know what I mean? She worked so closely with us, so it was different going to

swing. Uhm, but you know, it’s funny. Sometimes actors don’t respect swings.

PATRICK: Well that was a big thing of what I waned to cover.

MO: Oh!

ELLYN: And…and…of course, as a swing, I can look at another swing and say I

know how hard it is. And I know what your brain is doing. And I know if you

get that call at four o’clock, you’re going through your blocking. However,

somebody who does not know the show, let’s say uh, know all the other parts.

Let’s say a year in and you go downstage instead of upstage and they have to

turn their brain on for a second and they weren’t quite in the mood to turn

their brain on for a second.

PATRICK: Yeah.

ELLYN: That can really ruffle a feather. Do I understand it being in a track all

the time? Not really because I—I was just having this conversation with

someone. The fun thing about—I was just on for Lauren for a handful of shows

with Aaron Finley who I had never done it with before. I had done it with—

PATRICK: In what Role?

ELLYN: He is now playing Charlie Price.

PATRICK: Oh, okay.

ELLYN: I had done Charlie Price a bunch with Andy Kelso, Stark Sands. With

Jake Odmark, but I had never done it with him. How fun to talk and listen to

somebody who’s saying words differently. And just like if a swing were to

walk downstage instead of upstage, oh cool, I’m gonna counter this way

today, I’m gonna be totally honest BroadwayCon listeners, not every person is

gracious and loving and wants to have fun. Some just want to do their show

and they don’t want their show altered. And they don’t want their show

messed with and then they want to go to Glass House and they want to have

wine and they want to pass out. That’s fine. That’s just not the kind of onstage

actor I am.

PATRICK: Yeah.

ELLYN: It is not all sunshine and roses and it does matter—you guys will

probably agree—the group of people. Uhm, Kinky Boots has been a really

warm place from the get-go. I think that comes from the top, down. Uhm,

some other shows that I have been in have not been so warm. Uhm, yeah, you,

you know, we’re just people and—Oh gosh, what did I do the other day? Oh, I

was on for Adinah and at the top of act two—

PATRICK: Adinah, Let’s be clear who Adinah—

ELLYN: Adinah Alexander plays Marge. She’s one of the older factory workers.

Sorry Adinah.

PATRICK: Not Idina Menzel in something somewhere.

ELLYN: Correct. Adinah Alexander. She sets the shoe at the top of act two.

And act two we’re decided. We’re making boots, we hand a red shoe. Adinah

hands the red shoe to somebody. I had just played Maggie, another character

the day before, so I sat at a sewing machine at the top of act two. There was

no one to being that boot on. And I turned to Stephen too and was like

‘what?’ I mean, this show is in my life for four years. I just had a brain fart. I

just had a brain fart. And Tewks—Stephen Tewksbury is like the coolest man is

like ‘no big deal. We just carried it on.’ You know, ‘cause that’s what you do,

you know what I mean? You forget your keys at home, your neighbor lets you

in. That’s what you do. So.

PATRICK: Ben Cherry?

BEN: The Fiddler whole team and I don’t mean—well yes I didn’t get staging

rehearsals, but I don’t mean to throw them under the bus. Uhm, stage

management was extremely helpful if I had any questions etcetera. Uh, Bart

has been fantastic with coming to me and introducing himself and welcoming

me. The whole cast—I along the same lines, there’s still though, through all the

support, I’m not going to say I haven’t gotten unasked for, you know, notes

from actors.

PATRICK: Of really?

BEN: I understand them and I’m flexible and welcome enough to be like ‘I’m

not perfect. I learned this in my living room, so you gotta give me a break.’

But it still, it’s painful to get them in a way just because your ego, you’ve done

so much work and you’re working your ass off and you think you’re doing a

pretty good job, and you are, to be honest.

PATRICK: I just wanted—I just want to end by talking about this Cameron

Mackintosh situation. So, Mo, you take it away because I feel like you’re the

resident expert on this.

ELLYN: Your letter was so great, by the way.

BEN: Oh yeah, very good.

ELLYN: Retweeted so many times. So deservingly.

MO: Aw.

PATRICK: Tell me what happened and what your response was.

MO: Uhm, so in the West End. Not on Broadway. In the West End, producer

Cameron Mackintosh sent out a memo to the companies of his shows.

PATRICK: Which are?

MO: Uhm I don’t remember all of them, but Les Mis, Phantom, uhm, I think

there’s a Mary Poppins tour. Uh, other shows as well, and he said ‘we do not

want you to use social media to tell people when you are going on in an

understudy role. That is important to the finances of the show and we feel

that it should come through the press department.’ That was—that was Mr.

Mackintosh’s—Lord Mackintosh. Sr. Mackintosh. That was Cam’s feeling.

PATRICK: Can I ask you a quick question before you go forward?

MO: Yeah, go for it.

PATRICK: Do you shows announce—meaning can company members now

expect that it will be announced through the show?

MO: This is my thing. No.

PATRICK: Okay.

BEN: It was our rule at Fiddler. We can’t announce either.

MO: Aw.

ELLYN: Really? I didn’t know that.

BEN: Yeah.

MO: Well, social media and actors equity. It’s a new world, right? It’s not—so

everyone’s figuring it out, I think.

BEN: We can say we’re on. We just can’t say who we’re playing.

MO: Oh.

PATRICK: Oh.

MO: And I have a friend who’s in a company of a show, who, on Broadway

now, he was posting his understudy dates and stage management asked him

to take it down, but he could announce it the day before. So it’s all, right? It’s

all happening in these side conversations that aren’t going through union

uhm, and each show is a little bit different. What’s the deal at Kinky Boots?

ELLYN: Nothing. I mean I did not know this was happening. I had no idea. We

post. We’re not encouraged or discouraged. I mean, obviously you just want

to be positive, but that’s not even a rule, that’s life, you know. But no rule.

PATRICK: Tell me—so there’s sort of the point that he was making.

MO: Cameron Mackintosh was making which I disagree with but wasn’t the

point of my letter. That it has to do with the finances, right? If uhm Danny

Burstein is not on and Adam Grupper posts, who’s his understudy, one of his

understudies, I’m going on for Tevye, someone may not purchase a ticket to

Fiddler on the Roof because they say ‘Well I want to see Danny Burstein.’ So it

could be uh, it could hurt the bottom line of the show. My response to that is

eh, probably not. I mean, also—

PATRICK: It’s so negligible. It’s like the number of people who aren’t going to

see Danny Burstein, like that guy—Adam Grupper’s family and friends will

make up the difference.

MO: That’s my thought. It’s basically a wash.

PATRICK: Yeah.

MO: My letter was saying that it’s about respect for your understudies. By

telling understudies that they can’t announce when they’re going on, I believe

you’re telling them ‘You are not as good—as viable as a performer as the

person you are understudying.’ Which I think is not true. Like—like, Ellyn, you

could be just as good of a Nicola or a Lauren as the actors who are playing

that role at any time, but you also have other skills, right? Maybe you’re a

better mover. Maybe you can memorize multiple parts. Maybe there’s a jump

roping in your show that you can do. there’s not. But like like just because

you’re an understudy, doesn’t mean you are the second best at the role. It

means that your position in the company, you were the best person for that

position.

PATRICK: I think that’s such a valid point and that’s one of my takeaways

from your letter is that sometimes people are cast as understudies—like

people are chosen as understudies because that is the thing that they’re really

good at.

MO: So I feel like you should be able to share that. It’s not going to hurt the

bottom line. Now—Cameron said. Mr. Mackintosh said our press departments

want to share that information and I say—I call bullshit on that because I don’t

believe that will actually happen. Yeah. Ben’s taking his head. Ellyn’s shaking

her head.

PATRICK: There’s no pressure.

MO: No, no the shows are not gonna—

ELLYN: Extra! Extra! Kinky Boots year four; Ellyn Marsh goes on for Lauren!

MO: Like…it’s just not gonna happen. Right? And in this world, where people

are getting hired because of their social media presences, or being

encouraged to use them to promote the show, uhm, to say ‘hey promote the

show on your own social media channel, but don’t promote you in the show

on your social media channel,’ I call shenanigans.

ELLYN: That’s a really good point.

MO: Uhm, I think that’s ridiculous. Also, then the whole. The great issue—sorry,

I have a lot of feelings. The greater issue, to me, is about respect. It’s so easy

to change the uhm, the mood backstage if you just treat all of your actors

nicely. Like we can’t all—not every show is doing well financially. Not every

show can spend a bunch of money on their actors, but if their producers and

the creative team are nice to people, if they learn replacements’ names, if they

show their appreciation, that makes actors feel well respected.

PATRICK: Yeah.

ELLYN: We just had this conversation backstage. Daryl Roth, one of the

producers of my show, she—I have asked her several times to adopt me, uhm

and—that’s what I say. It comes from the top down. She is the nicest—she

sends us gifts on our birthday. Little things. She sent me some amazing

brownies on my birthday. Like thank you, Daryl. It takes very very little to

make people feel respected and loved and that is one thing that I will always

take away from Kinky Boots is that our producers always always make us feel

wanted and respected and loved. She stops by the theatre, you know, every

handful of months, she come to our dressing rooms, say hi. Hal Luftig is also

one of our producers, I just know Daryl a little better, but it does. It takes very

very little to make people feel good.

PATRICK: Well let’s end on that positive note. I love you guys.

MO: Aw thank you.

BEN: Aww.

ELLYN: Thank you.

PATRICK: Will we see you guys—Mo, I know you’re going to be at

BroadwayCon. Will you guys be at BroadwayCon?

ELLYN: I will be doing a one woman show. It’s actually not sponsored by

BroadwayCon, it’s just—

PATRICK: Will it be in the parking lot?

ELLYN: It’s gonna be in the bathroom.

PATRICK: Oh good.

ELLYN: So anyone can come who wants to come.

MO: Well now I’m coming.

PATRICK: I love you guys!

MO: Thank you so much.

BEN: Love you Patrick.

ELLYN: Thanks!

[SONG BIT FROM ‘IT’S RAINING MEN’]

PATRICK: BroadwayCon The Podcast is a partnership between BroadwayCon

media and Theatre Podcast Productions. Episodes are produced, and edited

by me, Patrick Hinds. Just a reminder that tickets for BroadwayCon 2017 are

currently on sale. You can find information and tickets at broadwaycon.com. If

you just can’t wait until next week’s episode to get your theatre podcast fix,

you can check out my other podcast. It’s called Theatre People. We do long

form interviews with Tony winners, Broadway legends, and today’s brightest

theatre stars. You can find it on iTunes, Stitcher, or any place else that you get

your podcasts. We’ll be back in one week with tony nominee Jennifer Simard

and Andrew Briedis who is also known as Annoying Actor Friend on Twitter.

Until then, we ask you to remember this:

[SONG BIT FROM THE OPENING OF BROADWAYCON 2016]

If you get really pissed and won't cut someone slack

When they call a cast album a frickin' soundtrack

You're a fan, you're fantastic, you're part of our crew

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