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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT

Is Nugent A Changed Man?; Will Republicans Stop CampaigningWith Nugent?; President Obama Proposes Minimum WageIncrease; Harold Ramis Remembered

Aired February 25, 2014 - 19:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINALFORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, the interview that hasa lot of people talking. Ted Nugent says he's a changed man, but evenhis own brother does n't believe him . He is OUTFRONT tonight.

Plus thepresident saysthe rich are getting richer. Is it the government's problem? And Rush Limbaugh blames the, quote"homosexual lobby" forbulling the Arizona governor on a controversial bill. For real? Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, TedNugent says he's a changed m an. At least that's wha t he told melast night in an interview that got a lot of people talking. I confronted Nugent about calling President Obama a, quote, "subhumanmongreland his response was prettyshocking.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED NUGENT, MUSICIAN: Live on Erin Burnett OUTFRONT, CNN, Ted Nugent remember the Alamo, February 24th, 2014. I'm notgoing to call people names anymore.

BURNETT: I think that to me, I mean, I know you're trying to make slightly light of this, but to me these things are not light at allbecause in a country you talk about --

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NUGENT: No, I'm not making light very serious , very serious .

BURNETT: Create more polarization is a horrible thing to do.

NUGENT: You're right. My children, my brothers, my sister, and my wonderful wife Sharmaine have told me that over and over. I think atthe tender age of 65, I think you're absolutely correct. Instead of us ing terms like subhuman mongrel, I'm going to get right to the meatof the matter where our president is a liar.

He lies about you can keep your doctor, period. Over and over again, he lies about Benghazi. He's lying about the IRS. So I won't callhim names anymore. I'm going to get right to the nitty gritty and identify the criminal behavior by the people abus ing power in theUnited States government so I take your advice to heart -- Erin.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BURNETT: With that, Nugent got a lot of people talking on our Facebook page, on Twitter and the media. Oneeditorial writer at the "Dallas Morning News" wrote the great thing about the interview is that Nugent clearly was em erging from a visitto the Republican woodshed.

The "Orlando Sentinel" framed it this way, "Nugent doesn't do contrite or apologetic, he does angry. That approach undercuts any pointhe's trying to make. When he keeps talking, he keeps hurting the politicians and caus es he supports. Most of all he hurts himself. Farfrom apologetic, Ted was on a tear Monday night."

Joining me now CNN political commentators, Paul Begala, Ben Ferguson and Ana Navarro. You're all here because you're all playersin the s tory, which is a s tory about what's going to happen to the Republican Party.

Paul, you were called out by name. Ben, you spoke with Ted Nugent today and of course, he apologized to you last week. Ana speaksuniquely to whether the GOP has a chance of being a big tent party or a party that becomes increasingly fringed defined by hatespeech like we hear from people like Ted Nugent.

So Ben, today he came on your radio show. You asked him what happened and you know, asked him about some of these wordshe's us ing. But one of the first things he s aid to you is the president's a racist. So as far as I'm concerned that pledge las ted not even24 hours.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I asked him, I said, all right, give me an example why you think he's aracist. He immedi ately responded with as s oon as is he put himse lf into the Trayvon Martin case by saying if I had a son, he wouldlook like Trayvon Martin. He said, look, that's playing the race card.

So that's what Ted believes when he says things like that. That's why I said can you back it up instead of just being nam e calling.What's interes ting is about this is , one of the things in the polling, I think a lot of people in Texas are not judging Ted Nugent by thisone comment.

In fact, Greg Abbott, people thought were going to be hurt by these comments has actually opened up a wider lead, an 11-point leadover Wendy Davis because I think the Dem ocrats went a little bit too hard to try to destroy Greg Abbott because of his relationship withTed Cruz or I should s ay with Ted Nugent. It may be backfiring on them today.

BURNETT: That's a pretty incredible thing if it's true. That he would actual see the poll numbers go up on the bas is of that.
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FERGUSON: Yes, I think they overplayed it. I really do. I think people in Texas that knew Ted Nugent and know what to expect from himand take him with a grain of salt saw them try to destroy Greg Abbott many believe is a sol id and a good man and think that they maybe overplayed their hand. BURNETT: That's an interesting question about how they're playing their hand, Paul, because there wasn't

jus t the mongrel com ment in the comment that Ted Nugent originall y made in the very sam e day that he made that comment. He alsoused the word chimpanzee in a way that seemed to me to refer pretty clearly to the president. I wanted to play that exchange to you foryour reaction because you're part of it -- Paul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NUGENT: I call my buddies in my band chimpanzees when they miss a good guitar lick. Give me a break on that. I referenced noracial overtones there whatsoever. I was referencing people who would look the camera, four dead Americans in Benghazi and refuseto be accountable and say what difference does it make? You've got to be a punk, liar, grossly dishonest, dangerous ly anti-American,or som e kind of anima l to agree with that kind of stuff.

So insert the word dog or m ongrel or chim panzee, I have nothing against any race. In fact, my whole life is dedicated to my blackmus ical heroes and you know that. I have not a racist bone in my body. That's the s tall Lewinsky propaganda min istry running amucklike goof ball friend, Paul Begala, who claims I'm a has been. I just celebrated my 50th year. I'm a black guitar player from Detroit. Getover it.

BURNETT: If I called the president who is a black president a chimpanzee, I would and should be fired.

NUGENT: I didn't call the president --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: First, Paul, please respond to Ted Nugent to the subs tance of what he had to s ay. I mean, obviously, he watched you onthe show last week pretty closely. You were on with Ben, I believe, that night.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there wasn 't any subs tance. I shouldn't have called Ted a has been. He wasa star. It's not about the Ted Nugent. I probably -- I was trying to be goofy and funny. I am a goof ball. That's fine Ted. I accept that. Iagree. It's about Greg Abbott. This is what Mr. Ferguson is talking about.

Greg Abbott is the attorney general of Texas. He could choose anyone to campaign with him and he chos e this really incendiary,som e people think hateful spokesman. The question is, who's next? Is he going to get Vladimir Putin to campaign for him on gayrights?

FERGUSON: Come on, Paul, pleas e, you really think that's a fair comparison?

BURNETT: OK. Paul, go ahead.

BEGALA: Why don't you let me make m y point? This is about the judgment of the politician who's choose to ass ociate with him. He isa rock 'n' roller, Mr. Nugent. He is going to speak that way. We all get that. That's his right, by the way. We've talked about this before. Ithink name calling is part of the American politics from the beginning --

BURNETT: Yes, you have.


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BEGALA: That's fine. He has to deal with that. The ques tion is, why does a politician of all the peop le you can associate with, why doeshe choose that guy? I think he's trying to send a mes sage that he wants to align hims elf with those kinds of extremis t views. I think it'sabout Greg Abbott, not about Ted Nugent.

BURNETT: Well, Anna, let me bring you in on that because I think that that really is the core of this, which is what's going to define theGOP, which is these very strident, very particular points of view, which apply to a base that is part of the GOP that alienates a lot ofpeople.

Greg Abbott appears to be more afraid of los ing that group, that core group of gun rights advocates than of appealing to anybody in themiddle of the aisle.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICIAL COMMENTATOR: I frankly think, Erin, it was a complete mis take by Greg Abbott to bring him out. Forall intents and purposes , Greg Abbot does not have a primary. The primary in Texas is March 4th. And for all intent and pu rposes , hedoesn't even have an opponent. He's go ing to coast through that. He's got, as ben mentioned, an 11-point lead over his generalopponent.

He doesn't need to bring out Ted Nugent to prove his bonafides on the second am endment. I think he'll bring out somebody that youjus t can't control. He's a loose cannon. When I heard yesterday from Ted Nugent was that even when he's trying to have a policydebate, even when he's trying to heed the advice of his brother and his wife and his children, he has a very hard time controlling whathe says and how he says it.

Anything can get under his s kin. But I do want to point out that I think it's rather unfair to try to point the GOP, the Republican Party, asTed Nugent. Ted Nugent is no t an elected Republican, not in any way have any sort of office as a Republican, not at a county, not on a

state level, not at a federal level, not at any level.

He is a rocker who has a second amendm ent, big advocacy position. I think it was a mis take by Abbott to bring him out because he 'sbecome a dis traction.

BURNETT: It's Ted Cruz refused to s ay he wouldn't campaign with him . Mitt Romney's son had gone on Twitter championing whenTed Nugent endors ed his father. Playing at inaugurations of Rick Perry. It's Rich Perry. Perry's hes itation to denounce it. I mean, that'sthe broader issue here.

FERGUSON: Erin, the broader issue is this .

NAVARRO: I have to tell you, Erin, I actually heard Rick Perry denounce what Ted Nugent said and I heard Rand Paul denounce it.

BURNETT: Rick Perry did on repeated questioning from Wolf Blitzer.

NAVARRO: Right. So but why should people be denouncing s omebody that's not even in elected office? I think the Republican Partyhas done a much better job recently in denouncing Republicans that say outrageous things that are in elected office. Can you policeeverybody out there?

I can tell you, I have absolutely no qualms, none, in saying that what he said i s condem nable, it is refutable. It is jus t despicable. It isno way to speaking about any human m uch less the president of the United States.

BURNETT: Ana, I'm just saying a lot of these other people are not as quick to say what you're saying. They're not. They're doing it


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under press ure, under questioning and not saying they're not going to be seen with him.

FERGUSON: Erin --

BURNETT: Ben, go ahead.

NAVARRO: Part of it is becaus e he's just Ted Nugent. You know, he's not the pres ident. He's not running for Senate.

BURNETT: Go ahead, Ben.

FERGUSON: Here's the core of this is, you have to take Ted Nugent in context and what Paul did a moment ago is exactly what I'mtalking about of overplayings the hand here. Look at Bill Clinton today. Bill Clinton, the former pres ident of the United States of Americawho hooked up with an intern in the oval office for goodness sakes has a 60 percent approval rating because people s till look at thegrand what he did as president of the United States of America.

Democrats are cam paigning with him today. And they look past that because they saw there was a personal mis take. Ted Nugentmade a m istake. He made a m istake in what he said. That's the thing that people look at.

BURNETT: Final word goes to Paul.

NAVARRO: Ben, I have to beg you we stop us ing Monica Lewinsky from 20 years ago when we are dis cuss ing politics. I don't thinkwe're helping ourselves.

FERGUSON: The point is though people look pas t failures.

NAVARRO: There is a lot of points we can take is sue with in regards to Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton who m ight be the potentialcandidate. I don't want to go back to re-litigating what we did, what he did 20 years ago. Pleas e.

BURNETT: Final word goes to Paul, the Democrat. He's been very silent. BEGALA: I think I'm trying to be polite here. My goodness, thisis a lively debate. I think the final word is this. The Democrats have chosen the face of their party is, of course, Barack Obama and BillClinton. You think of Dem ocrats, that's how s hould think of. Of course, Hillary Clinton. Hillary, please run.

The face of the Republican Party now is Ted Nugent, Rush Lim baugh who s aid these vial things abou t that woman from Georgetownwho testified on contraceptives, vile things. That's the face of the Republican Party. Republicans have to get a better face. They need

Ana Navarro. Ana, I think you should run for pres ident. You should becom e the face of the Republican Party.

BURNETT: There we go. All right, thank you very much. We appreciate that. All three of you taking time.

Coming up, Ted Nugent's brother, Jeff, is OUTFRONT. He thinks his brother crossed the line. He is going to explain why.

Plus the m an behind "Caddyshack," "Ghostbus ters" and "Groundhog day." Why the ultimate underdog and the war on the wealthiest 1percent. Did President Obama fire a round at the rich or levelling the playing field?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have got to bu ild an econom y that works for everyone, not


6/18


jus t a fortunate few. We've got to restore opportunity for all peop le.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: An economy that works for everyone, not just a fortunate and the few. The President wants to change that, wants to raisethe minimum wage by 39 percent.

Kevin O'Leary makes a living helping small busines s owners become m illionaires. That's his job. He's a judge on ABC's reality show,"Shark Tank."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Make you $100,000 offer for 40 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You thief. You really do com e in on a broom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Problem after problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the bigges t problem s, you've got to listen to this every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Kevin is OUTFRONT tonight.

All right. So, the president making the point that average wages have barely budges . People are working hard no t able to achieve theAmerican dream. How can you deny that the economy is only working for a few right now?

KEVIN O'LEARY, INVESTOR, SHARK TANK: The num bers don't support that. This vilification of the rich and one percent and the del tabetween the one and everybody else is always has existed in America. And thank goodnes s that is the cas e because this is theess ence of what makes capitalism work.

The problem today is lack of jobs. When you talk about not having a rate hike in wages, it's because there's so m any peopleunemployed. It's bas ically a demand situation. But why is that the case , Erin? The president talks about using government policy tolevel the playing field. That's exactly what we don't need.

There are over 20 million s mall bus iness es in America. That is where the job growth will come from dom estically. Because largecompanies have already figured out that they can move their jobs offshore and have done that already. That's why they've been s osuccessful and created so many earnings, record earnings in the S&P. Let's go back to what matters in America, those 20 millionmen and women that are creating jobs for Americans . And the last thing they need is this advice from the president.

BURNETT: Here's my ques tion though, because according to Oxfam, which is you know, one report, they say the richest one percentin the world own 46 percent of global wealth. That's an incredible num ber. And some people might jus t turn this on you and s ay weknow it, Kevin. Clearly, governments are s upporting the one percent becaus e they're getting more and more of the wealth.

O'LEARY: Sure. But let's remember.


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BURNETT: Why not change policy now and help the less fortunate?

O'LEARY: Because it would be a huge m istake. The reason they're the one percent is they created businesses , products and servicesthat were very success ful, employed millions of people, paid billions in taxes. And let's not forget, Erin, that all of the wealth in Americadoesn't come from government at all. It comes from the back of people like the one percent that created the busi ness es, hundreds ofthousands of jobs, we then tax them and by the way, the one percent get taxed at 38 percent. The m iddle class we're trying to help onlypail 12 on average. The numbers don't support the idea of trying to steal from the rich and g ive to the poor. This isn't a robin hoodsociety. This is a society that --

BURNETT: Steal is a s trong word.

O'LEARY: But look, you can't do that. You can't just decide to come out of the blue and say I'm going to change policy, change the ruleson you who have taken all the risk and created jobs . That doesn't work.

Here's what does work. Less government, less taxation, less regulations and let those men and wom en in sma ll busines s createthose jobs for us. They don't need more government. They need less.

BURNETT: So, what's interesting, though, is that you're going about it from a very different way than the president. But it seems to methat people like you actually agree with him on s omething that's very important.

O'LEARY: What would that be?

BURNETT: Let me play it for you. I have it here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: No matter who you are, where you come from, what you look like, how you started out, if you are willing to work hard and takerespons ibility, you can get ahead in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: You have to agree with every word of that.

O'LEARY: Of course, I do. But to make that easier for me, if I was running a bus iness with let's say five emp loyees and I was thinkingof hiring two more, I wouldn't want you to increase m y labor costs by 39 percent. Because then I can't employ any more people. In fact,

I don't want you telling me what I should be paying them. I want the market to do that.

BURNETT: All right. So, you're talking about the minimum wage here.

O'LEARY: Huge issue.

BURNETT: But the CBO, Congress ional Budget Office has come ou t and said, yes, you would bring a lot of people out of poverty bydoing this.

O'LEARY: That's not the job of policy in the private sector. What we should be doing to get people out of the situation they're in andunemployment and poverty is creating m ore jobs so that everybody has that opportunity to work. That's what Americans want to do,


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they want to find a job.

BURNETT: Haven't you had it your way? I mean, people say look what happened to Wall Street, right? There was a lack of regulation.And what happened there? That was a disaster. Minimum wage has been where it is for a long tim e. Jobs haven't been created. So, Icould s ay look, your way is not working.

O'LEARY: It is working. The trouble with our job situation is our anem ic growth. You know, our three percent les s GDP growth whenChina is growing at five and six and s even percent. We have created such a regulatory environment today, that even a sm all bus inesson the keep pounding that table on this has to spend $20 ,000 to $30,000 just complying with the 2800 regulations we layered onthem federally last year and let alone the s tate and local. You know, Erin, I invest in s mall busines ses every week. That's what I do. I'man investor. You s hould have these people talk to you. Or even better still, let the pres ident talk to somebody running a 17-pers on

busines s in Massachus etts or 30 em ployees in California. And hear what they say. They would not agree with him. And I think that isthe core and the es sence of America that we're not listening to. We need to listen to these people. They should tell us what to do. Andwhat they want right now is less government.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Kevin, thank you very much.

You know, I remember, by the way, the president saying he was going to go back and cut a whole lot of regulations. There was a bigpush for that about couple of years ago. When you say 2800 on average, I'm going to ass ume you know your s tats on that. That'shorrific. That's probably something you could agree with the pres ident on, too.

Still to come, a controversial bill some say is anti-gay in front of Arizona's governor tonight. Will she s ign it or us e her veto? We trackher down as her plane landed.

Plus, a look back at the life and career of a comedy genius. What made Harold Ramis s o great?

And a leopard on the loose m aking its way on to rooftops, movie theaters and even a hospi tal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Paying tribute to a com edy icon tonight. The family of Harold Ramis is preparing for his funeral. The actor, writer anddirector who is perhaps best known for directing "caddie shack" and as well in "Ghostbusters" died yesterday.

And today, President Obama paid tribute to the Chicago native saying quo te "when we watched his movies, we just laugh until it hurt.We questioned au thority, we identified with the outsider, we root the for the underdog and through it all, we never lost our faith in happy

endings."

That's a pretty eloquent thing to say and shows he really did watch all those movies. Well, Bill Weir is OUTFRONT.

And Bill, you've been looking into Ramis and who how he became this comedy great. People here though -- those aren't the onlymovies.

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, not at all. And if you came of age during the age of HBO, like me, he is our Orson Welles.Did you know that on the first day of first grade, Harold Ramis was sent to the principal's office for chewing gum. And as he told 'NewYorker," he remembers thinking well, there goes college. But a tortured rebel he was not. See, Harold was the kind of kid who spenthis ba r mitts vats m oney on wall to wall carpeting for his parents. And when he made it to Washington University in the turbulence


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'60s, his tool of anarchy was comedy.

The satire he wrote in school helped him get into the second city and to avoid Vietnam he told the army he was a bed wetter with bedsweats and attraction to men s omething he would use in the great movie "Stripes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not homosexual but willing to learn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, would they send us som e place special?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: In the early days, Harold wanted to act as m uch as write or direct but then he s aw a guy named John Belushi (ph) on stage inChicago and his confidence as a scene stealer plumm eted. So, he adjusted. And instead of competing with fellow comics he beganto complement them to write and direct to their strengths.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it over when the Germans bombed pearl harbor? Hell no!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: German? Forget it, he's roll ing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: "Animal Hous e" was his first stab at screen writing. In the process , Ramis saw h imself as otter, the sm art ass bon vivant, theleader of the anti-establishment pack. And that same period, because that sam e soul showed up in "Meatballs" and "Caddy Shack""and "Stripes" and "Ghostbusters", a spring of film that turned it Ramis and Murray into the Lennon and McCartney of comedy, films thatinspires a whole new generation of funny including a teenaged Jud Apatow who begged him for a meeting to better understand thecomedic mas ter and tweeted this photo yesterday as all those condolences began flowing in.

BURNETT: I mean, it's amazing when you talk about all those movies, you know, every one of them icons, right, in their own way.Obviously, there's been a huge outpouring from Hollywood. But what he saw as funny, his brand of comedy changed over the years,right?

WEIR: It evolved because like the rest of us adulthood happened. He had a marriage end and he, well, he put on a lot of weight andthen lost it and then put on more. He entered therapy, discovered Buddhism. And then he s tarted making movies, not so m uch aboutbucking the system, but about s elf-discovery and redemption.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is your perfect guy?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, he's too humble to know he's perfect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's me.


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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's intelligent. Supportive. Funny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Intelligence, s upportive funny. Me. Me, me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: "Groundhog day," such a huge chord with everyone from Buddhists to Christians to psychoanalysts who found m eeting in aself- evolved character doomed to live the same day till he becomes a better person. But the ironic casualty of that film was hisfriendship with Bill Murray. They had a falling out after wrapping, they didn't speak for almost two decades . I have had d reams abouthim that we were friends again, Ramis said in 2010 for a rare disease that swells the blood vessels laid him low. It got so bad, he

had to learn to walk again, suffered a relaps e, never recovered. But among those who visited his Chicago home towards the end, BillMurray.

But before we get muddled here, it would be -- it would shame the memory of Harold Ramos if we got too sentimental. This films areso anti-sentimental, so let us go into his mem orial eating Twinkies and s inging boom s hakalaka and quoting "Caddyshack." He willbe missed.

BURNETT: And you think Babe Ruths (ph), and my favorite scene from "Caddyshack".

I don't know. I love it. I somehow never grow up from that sort of humor.

All right. Bill Weir, thank you very much .

WEIR: Thanks, Erin.

BURNETT: OUTFRONT next, a controversial bill that some say is anti-gay in front of Arizona's governor tonight. Will she sign it or useher veto?

Plus, First Lady Michelle Obama bus ts out a rap and a fan flips Justin Timberlake the bird and gets a reaction she probably wasn'texpecting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: It's looking m ore and more like bus iness es won't be allowed to deny service to gays in the name of God. CNN has

learned that Arizona Governor Jan Brewer is expected to veto the divisive legislation that would allow busines ses to refuse service tocertain individuals that goes against their religious beliefs.

So, in just a couple of days, Brewer has faced intensifying pressure from politicians, even the NFL, which is going to have a SuperBowl in Arizona, and CEOs across the state. In fact, Mitt Romney got involved, tweeting this afternoon, "Governor Brewer, veto ofSenate Bill 1062 is right.' Our Miguel Marquez has been following the story. As you know, he's on this program every night with theprotest. He's there tonight.

And, Miguel, Brewer jus t got back a few hours ago. I know you were trying to get to the bottom of whether she would say this is whatI'm going to do. What were you able to find out?


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MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, she's not going to say what she's really going to do, but we have been doing a lotof reporting around it.

And here's how we think it's going to go down -- tomorrow, she will meet with stakeho lders here and with legis lators to figure ou t howall of this cam e down. We expect on either Thursday or Friday, she will issue a veto, that is not done deal yet though. The organizers ofthe protests here are certainly getting more o rganized. Tonight even has a theme, "welcome back, Jan" for Jan Brewer and theypromise to be here every single night until there's a decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PROTESTERS: Veto, veto, veto, veto, veto --

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Protests here turning into a m ovement. The s o-called "Religious Freedom Bill" now a rallying point for les bianand gay rights.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've had a boyfriend for the past three years . I know how I feel about him . If I felt that way about a girl, then Iwouldn't want people to tell me I couldn't be with them.

MARQUEZ: What prompted the bill? Legal cases against bus iness es with religious owners denying services to lesbian o r gaycouples s eeking to hold a m arriage ceremony. A photographer in New Mexico, a florist in Washington state, a baker in Colorado withsupport for gay marriage in Arizona now hitting 55 percent in a recent Rocky Mountain poll, the writing here on the wall.

(on camera): People who have deeply held religious beliefs don't believe that same-sex marriages, commitment ceremonies any of

that should be taken. They see that as the threat, yes?

AARON BAER, CENTER FOR ARIZONA POLICY: That definitely is a part of it. And the crux of the issue here, what they're saying is theyshouldn't be forced to us e artistic expression, whether it's a photographer, whether it's a cake baker, to celebrate som ething they holda sincerely held religious belie f about.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Another concern, reproductive rights. Employees who are oppose to any birth control pos sibly suingemployers for offering those services through their health insurance. Big companies including Apple and American Airlines haveasked the governor to veto the bill -- a growing storm on several fronts agains t it.

(on camera): Frustrating to be where you are now, though?

BAER: It's disappointing and it's s ad that we can't have an hones t discuss ion about religious freedom and it turns into this big sort ofdebacle that it's turned into.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Other conservative groups defending bus iness owners with deep religious beliefs view this as a culture warthat is only growing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are seeing certainly a growing hostilities and a pus h from the s o-called tolerance crowd to s ay, you know,we're not going to be tolerant towards your views but you have to bow down to ours .

(END VIDEOTAPE)


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MARQUEZ: Now, when the governor does make her decision, we believe that will be a veto, we also expect her to use that opportunityto talking about Arizona, the debate that has happened here and make it basically a platform for whatever it is s he decides to do --Erin.

BURNETT: All righ t. Miguel , thank you very much, covering that story from Phoenix.

And today, conservative radio show hos t Rush Lim baugh said Governor Jan Brewer is being, quote, "bullied into vetoing the bil l."Here's Rush.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The same sex homosexual advocates want her to veto it on the basis of human rights,civil rights, gay rights and what-have-you. The governor of Arizona is being bu llied, by the homos exual lobby in Arizona and elsewhere.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BURNETT: OUTFRONT tonight, Tony Perkins from the Family Research Council. That's the group that supports the bill and hassupported s imilar bills in at least eight other states acros s the country.

All right. Tony, what do you think about what Rush Limbaugh just said? Is Governor Brewer being bullied by the gay lobby in order toadvance their agenda?

TONY PERKINS, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, Erin -- you know, Erin, I think what's happened is the water has been clearly

muddied. No question abou t that. I think too many people have gone to the Nancy Pelosi s chool of public policy. They're going todispos e of this and then read it.

It's a one-page bill. It's pretty easy. You go back -- it amends a 1999 law that ess entially does three things. The major thing it does is itsays you don't have to leave your faith within the walls of your church or your home. As a businessperson, it makes clear that you havereligious freedoms as a bus iness owner. It also sets in place, which is the actual the opponents should s upport this, puts in place aclear test to make sure these are orthodox genuine religious beliefs. So, it would be very hard as some have tried to portray this that ifyou own an ice cream shop, you could deny serving someone who was a homos exual.

Simply not true. You couldn't do that. There's no basis for that in religion. We're talking about marriages , we're talking about thoseceremonies that really when you participate in them as described in the package about being artistic, you're affirming of somethingthat runs counter to your religious be liefs.

BURNETT: You're saying I can't ban -- I have the bill in front of me. It printed out, two pages for me, but basically saying that you can dothis if the person's refusal to act is mo tivated by religious belief. So, you're saying to me if I'm -- someone could ban me from com ingin if I was married to another woman, but not if I was sim ply a lesbian and not married to the woman?

PERKINS: No.

BURNETT: It's gay marriage, that's your problem?

PERKINS: That is -- it sets in place this has to be a religious belief that is deeply held and you can't just come up and create a religion.You can't come up and say, I'm not going to serve som ebody this food, and that would be incons istent with a Christian world view.

Ch i ti t t l


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Christians want to serve people.

Where the issue is, and this is what happened in New Mexico, what drove this was that you had Elane Photography, a Christianphotography company, that was s ued for not photographing a same s ex wedding ceremony. That's the issue here is that the reasonthey -- the riffraff (ph) of that state of New Mexico didn't cover it is because they were a business.

It's the s ame thing right now with the HHS mandate that's going to be argued before the Supreme Court next month.

Rasm uss en polling a couple of months ago conducted a nationwide polling, 85 percent of Americans agree that a Christianphotographer should no t be forced to participate in a same sex wedding. That's what this is abou t is making s ure that as anindividual, when you enter the marketplace, you don't have to leave your religious freedom beh ind.

BURNETT: But as an individual, you can already do that. Someone could say to me if I was getting married to another wom an jus t sayno. They don't have to give me the reason for doing that, right? But this is institutionalizing in law something that would not only enableyou to do that it would seem to me, but there are a lot of other things that religion may condone that I think we could all agree m ight bediscriminatory to a lot of people, right? I mean, peop le can do anything they want in the name you have religion and say it's a deeplyheld conviction. I believe it. It just happens to be hateful. So, now, it's protected?

PERKINS: Erin, I have to disagree with you on that. That's why the third component of this am endment is important, is that it puts inplace this has to be a not just some kind of belief you pull out of the sky. You've got to be able to defend that belief and it sets up astandard which it's not a given. You would have this defense but it's not a given when you go into court.

You would have to prove you have a genuine religious conviction that prevents you from participating in this. You can't say that about

not serving som eone. I'm only speaking for the Chris tian faith. You can't say that because there's no biblical bas is for that. In fact,we're told to serve those who oppos e us.

It comes to the issue of weddings, of those things which Christians and other people of faith hold to be sacred. And to be forced toparticipate in that, I have to say, Erin, that is the height of being un-American.

BURNETT: I don't understand how anyone was forcing you. That's what I don't get. You can always say no to that. I called som eoneand said can you take photographs of my wedding. He could have said no without giving me a reason. Now you have a law that allowshim to say because you're a lesbian.

That's what I don't understand.

PERKINS: That's not the case. That's why this is taking place. Colorado, a baker was charged and even threatened potentially with jailuntil they changed the law for not baking a cake. Elane Photography fined, went all the way to the state Supreme Court.

And because they were a business, they didn't have the individual pro tections. They're appeali ng to the United States Suprem e Court.

So, your point, you're actually agreeing that we ought to have the ability to say no. That ability is not there right now because you're abusiness.

BURNETT: I'm not agreeing. I'm jus t saying we have it on an individual basis . I don't want to confuse that with agreeing we should orshouldn't.

PERKINS Th t' th i t f thi It' ll i th t t k it i t th k t l Ri ht th 't t k it t th k t l


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PERKINS: That's the point of this. It's allowing them to take it into the marketplace. Right now, they can't take it to the marketplace.

BURNETT: All right. Tony, thank you and I appreciate your taking the time to come on, as always.

Still to come, a tale of two brothers. Why Jeff Nugent thinks his brother Ted crossed the line.

And then Jus tin Timberlake flipped off during one of his concerts. Wait until you see how he res ponded.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: And now, let's check in with Anderson Cooper with a look what's coming up on "AC360" -- Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Erin. Yes, the bill that some s ay protects religious freedom, others say it's a licens e todiscriminate, tonight, we're keeping them hones t. Ahead on the program, the special interest groups that helped write the Arizona bill.But they won't come on the program to defend it.

Also, Randi Kaye is in Phoenix tonight, trying to get some answers from lawmakers .

And the mystery illnes s in California wi th paralyzing symptoms . It's a "360" exclusive with one of the families whose ch ild is battlingthis crippling disease. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us with a latest on the race to find som e answers .

Those s tories and tonight's "Ridiculist", a whole lot more at the top of the hour -- Erin.

BURNETT: All righ t. Thank you very much, Anderson.

Well, now, a tale of two Nugen t brothers.

Ted Nugent's brother, a former Neutrogena and Revlon CEO Jeff Nugent, doesn't agree with his brother's rhetoric or all of his politics.In fact, during our interview yesterday, Ted credited his brother Jeff for helping him to decide to change his ways.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED NUGENT, ROCKER: Whether it's my wonderful wife, my brother Jeff and John or Cathy, my great kids, or someone like you, Erin,and people around me. They think I'll be more effective if I back off that Detroit street fighter rock 'n' roll stage rhetoric.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Jeff Nugent joins me now.

Jeff, thanks very much. You know, and I'm really glad you came OUTFRONT (AUDIO GAP) struggle to understand your brother. Heobviously has very significant following, cult following, som e would a say, but people who care a lot and deeply about the Second

Amendment.

You had a conversation with him about his recent rhetoric. How did that happen? How did you tell him to tone it down?

JEFFREY NUGENT, TED NUGENT'S BROTHER: Well, Erin, I'm delighted to be here, but it's a conversation we've been having for

longer than you can imagine And I think Ted referred to that last night because my advice to him over the years has been please


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longer than you can imagine. And I think Ted referred to that last night because my advice to him over the years has been -- pleasetone it down. And there's a line that you s houldn't cross. And his latest comments about President Obama and Hillary Clinton havecrossed the line. And I was offended with those. And he knows that.

And I was , frankly, very pleased to see the conversation you had with him last nigh t because he did apo logize for making thosestatements. And not a direct quote, but in front of you and CNN and your millions of viewers, he prom ised not to the call people namesin the future.

And I respect him for doing that. And as I've said, I will continue to be the cattle prod and the adviser as he goes through life fulfilli ngthat promise.

BURNETT: Now, do you think he can keep that promis e? I mean, he went on Ben Ferguson, who you know was on this programearlier.

NUGENT: Of course.

BURNETT: Went on his program today and I listened to an interview today. He called the pres ident a racis t.

NUGENT: That could be des cribed as calling som eone a nam e. And I haven't seen that.

So, I didn't bring my cattle prod with me because it's not allowed in New York City. But I am very serious about helping Ted calm hisrhetoric down and be m ore fact-based than attack individuals in an inappropriate way.

BURNETT: So, why does he do these things? I mean, he's known as this . Some people say he does it because he wants theattention and pub licity. If he didn't hurl these insults at people wouldn't pay attention to him . Is that why he does it?

NUGENT: Well, I think it's very simple. I think it's very clear that Ted's very passionate about the things that he believes in. And part ofhis personality is that he is provocative. So, you put those two things together and it comes out the way you s ee it.

I agree with him on s ome points, but I disagree vehemently on others.

BURNETT: Like you said , you thought what he said abou t president was utterly inappropriate.

NUGENT: Over the line. There's no reason why you would call the president what he did. And I've told him that. And he's admitted thatthat was a m istake. And what it really boils down to -- and I'll get right to the issue here -- is that I am amazed at the attention that his

comments and his vocabulary has gotten the attention that it has when we're dealing with so many more s ubstantial iss ues in thiscountry.

And the fact that Ted actually uses the vocabulary he does is inconsequential relative to the will of the people of the United States. And,you know, as we d iscussed earlier today, I'm amazed that there are s o many surveys out, and I'm convinced that our government isnot paying attention to the will of the people.

And "The Associated Press", the University of Chicago conducted an extensive survey in December. And the number one is sue facingthe United States according to the people interviewed --

BURNETT: The economy.


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NUGENT: -- is the economy. And it's twice the level of concern that health care is, which I would include Obamacare as pa rt of it.

BURNETT: Right.

NUGENT: And you go down the list, and both of those are five, six times the level of concern that immigration represents, that theenvironment and global warming represen ts. And since whenever you talk about Ted Nugent, the subject of guns and gun controlcomes up, they fail to even meet the top 10 li st.

BURNETT: It's a fair point.

NUGENT: So if you listen to the people of the United States, the leaders that we have in Washing ton are not paying attention to the willof the country. And as far as I'm concerned, if you want to talk about embarrassm ent and not lis tening to what the people are saying,then it's very clear that both Houses of Congress have embarrass ed themselves more than I think my brother ever did.

BURNETT: A lot of people would disagree with that. But I have to leave it there. Thank you very much. Appreciate your taking the time,Jeff.

And OUTFRONT next, a fan flips off Justin Timberlake during a concert. What was h is res pons e? Jeanne Moos reports, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Even if you're Justin Timberlake, every now and then, someone flips you the bird.

Here's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Justin Timberlake has given us a heck of a les son in how to handle a heckler.In this cas e a female with an upraised finger.

JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE, SINGER: Why are you flipping me off? You got second row to flip me the bird? That makes no (EXPLETIVEDELETED) sense.

MOOS: Though this concert in Philadelphia took place back in November, it's only now gone viral. The heckler said she wanted

Timberlake to s ee her. Timberlake imitated her getting ready for the concert, planning her finger-wagging, attention-getting strategy.

TIMBERLAKE: You know what? I know what we should do.

MOOS: The fan who shot this video won the concert tickets and a trip to Philly in the contest.

STEPHANIE LOUGH, JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE FAN: He's so charming. He's so charming.

MOOS: Stephanie Lowe was es pecially impressed with how he handled the heckler.

LOUGH: I've seen a lot of comedians get heckled. Usually, they kind of throw it back at the person, kind of ins ult them.


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MOOS: Daniel Tosh (ph ) for instance is known for dish ing it out to hecklers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to edit you out. Like your parents wish they could?

MOOS: How about comedian Jam ie Kennedy who was in terrupted when he used the word "waitress"?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're called s ervers.

JAMIE KENNEDY, COMEDIAN: Well, I'd like you to serve your mouth s hut.

MOOS: But Justin Timberlake wasn't serving up put downs .

LOUGH: He made it really positive. He made it -- he laughed at it. He got the whole crowd laughing.

MOOS: He turned the finger into a kumbaya moment.

TIMBERLAKE: OK, let's all do it at the same time so we get this over with.

(CHEERS)

MOOS (on camera): OK. So, if that's the perfect way to handle a heckler, what would be the imperfect way?

(voice-over): Ask Kanye West.

When fans as ked Kanye to take off the mas k he was wearing, Kanye took it personally.

KANYE WEST, MUSICIAN: Are you trying to tell me how to give you my heart?

MOOS: He had security remove the fan.

WEST: Do I look l ike a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) comedian? (INAUDIBLE)

MOOS: Well, we wouldn't have mistaken him for Justin Timberlake --

TIMBERLAKE: OK, let's all do it at the same time so we get this over with.

MOOS: -- who's put his finger on how to handle a heckler.

TIMBERLAKE: That's also the weirdest moment I've ever had with a crowd. Thank you.

MOOS: Jeanne Moos --

(on camera): So, thumbs up for the middle finger.

MOOS (voice-over): -- CNN --


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LOUGH: He does deserve a thumb up or his finger up.

MOOS: -- New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: Way to go, Justin. Kanye?

Anderson starts now.

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Edition Cnn Com TRANSCRIPTS 1402 25 Ebo 01 HTML

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Transcript of Edition Cnn Com TRANSCRIPTS 1402 25 Ebo 01 HTML