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Running head: COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 1
Counselors in the “Real” World
Sarah Emily Curtis, Elizabeth Duncan, Susan McKenzie, and Julie New
Salem College
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 2
Counselors in the "Real" World
In today’s educational environment, counselors play an important role in student
development. Understanding how to manage their counseling program from assessment to
implementation can be the difference between success and failure. As we interviewed current
school counselors in the school systems in our areas, we found that they all have a lot on their
plates, and that they work hard to make sure their students have every opportunity to thrive.
From classroom lessons to calendar management, these individuals teach the
competencies they know their students will need to be successful. It is critical that a new
counselor assess the current program and understand how to design and implement changes as
necessary. Understanding state standards as well as knowing how to work within the American
School Counselor Association [ASCA] guidelines will help us build comprehensive programs.
Discussion
For this project, each group member was tasked with interviewing school counselors at
the elementary, middle, and high school levels. We were also to interview an administrator.
Each of us went to area schools and interviewed counselors who are working now to encourage
and motivate their students.
The Interviews
Interviewed by Julie New. Julie New traveled to multiple schools in Randolph County
NC, which tend to be in the rural setting. Julie first interviewed Becky Peele at Seagrove
Elementary School. Ms. Peele is in her fourth year as a counselor, with the last two being at
Seagrove. She attended UNC-Chapel Hill for both her undergraduate and graduate programs.
Seagrove has approximately 428 students and just has one counselor.
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Next, Julie traveled to Southwest Randolph Middle School, which is where the Seagrove
Elementary students will go for Middle School. The Middle school has two counselors and she
was able to interview both of them. Brittany Roberti handles the 7th and 8th grade students. She
has been a counselor for two years and graduated from UNC-G for both her undergrad and
graduate program. Pam Harden handles 6th and 8th grade students. She has been a counselor for
15 years, but has been at SWRMS for just a year. Between the two of them, they handle over
1100 students.
Julie then traveled to Wheatmore High School (still in Randolph County) to see high
school counselor Shelia Dunphy-Atkins. There are two counselors at Wheatmore for their 700
students, and Ms. Dunphy-Atkins handles the juniors and seniors. She has been a counselor for
15 years, coming to Wheatmore High School when it opened in 2009. Mrs. Dunphy-Atkins got
her undergraduate degree from Canisius College, where she also obtained her first Masters in
School Administration. She got her second Masters in Counseling from St. Bonaventure
University also in New York. She is also National Board Certified and her vast experience is a
true asset to her students.
Finally, Julie interviewed Drew Maerz who is the Director of Testing and Accountability
for the Asheboro City Schools in Randolph County. Dr. Maerz is responsible for the testing and
reporting for Asheboro City Schools that serve over 4800 students. He has a BS in Secondary
Education Chemistry, from the College of Education in at Penn State. His Masters in School
Administration is from UNC-G and his Doctorate in Education is from UNC-Charlotte. Dr.
Maerz has been a teacher, an elementary and high school principal. He then became the Director
of Educational Development for Moore County prior to his current position. Dr. Maerz has seen
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how comprehensive counselingprograms can be beneficial to the students. A transcript of Julie’s
interviews can be found in Appendix B.
Interviewed by Elizabeth Duncan.Elizabeth interviewed three counselors and one
administrator in the Cabarrus County school system. The Cabarrus County school system has
grown immensely in the past several years. Cabarrus County is suburban area. Elizabeth
interviewed Julie Haas at Boger Elementary, Amy Hand at Northwest Middle, Christy Takach at
Concord High, and Assistant Principal of Instruction at Beverly Hills Elementary.
Julie Haas started her professional career in admissions at an Art Institute. After deciding
to change career paths she attended University of North Carolina at Charlotte and graduated in
2009 with a Master’s in Education-School Counseling. Originally Ms. Haas wanted to work at
the high school level. After doing an internship in an elementary school Ms. Haas changed her
mind and decided to stay at the elementary level. Ms. Haas works with the students in 1st, 3rd, and
5th grade. Ms. Haas’ splits the Kindergarten classrooms with her co-counselor.
Ms. Hand worked for the Department of Social Services briefly before deciding to
become a school counselor. Ms. Hand also attended University of North Carolina at Charlotte.
This school year was Ms. Hand’s thirteenth year at a school counselor, all of which have been in
middle school. Ms. Hand works with the 8th grade students at Northwest Middle.
Ms. Takach attended Marshall University, in West Virginia, for both her undergraduate
and graduate work. Ms. Takach worked at the elementary level for ten years before moving the
high school level. Ms. Takach has been at Concord High for three years.
Lastly, Ms. Scardina started teaching middle and high school Spanish and ESL back in
1995. In 1997 she began teaching just high school. Ms. Scardina earned a Master's Degree in
Education in 2002 and then entered into the NC Principal Fellows program and earned a Master's
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in School Administration and Curriculum and Instruction in 2004. Since then she has been an
Assistant Principal. Ms. Scardina did her undergraduate work at University of North Carolina at
Greensboro and then all of her graduate work at University of North Carolina at Charlotte. This
year Ms. Scardina will begin working on her doctorate in Curriculum and Instruction / Urban
Education. This school year is her 20th year in education. A transcript of Liz’s interviews can be
found in Appendix C.
Interviewed by Susan McKenzie. Susan interviewed three school counselors and one
administrator, who was formerly a school counselor, in Henderson County. Henderson County’s
makeup is both suburban and rural, depending upon which part of the county you are in. The
counselors interviewed were Susan Garren at Fletcher Elementary School, Carolyn Blakely at
Hendersonville Middle School, and Annabelle Hurd at Hendersonville High School. The
administrator interviewed was Shannon Auten, Assistant Principal at West Henderson High
School.
Susan Garren, Fletcher Elementary, has a bachelor’s degree in elementary education.
Ms. Garren taught middle school math for two years. She found that the kids had so many
issues, and they would stay in her room and talk during lunch and breaks, so she decided to go
into counseling. She went to school at night while she was teaching. She worked as a counselor
at a high school for 4 years, but she didn’t like the politics and paperwork of high school. She
was at a middle school for 7 years and has been at Fletcher Elementary for 15 years.
Carolyn Blakely, Hendersonville Middle School, has an undergraduate degree in
psychology. When she couldn’t find a job, she went to a career counselor and found that school
counseling would be a good fit for her. She has a master’s in counseling education from the
University of South Florida. She has been a school counselor for 16 years. She was a counselor
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at Lees-McRae College for four years, and since then has worked in Buncombe County, Wilkes
County, and Henderson County. This is her first year at Hendersonville Middle School.
Annabelle Hurd, Hendersonville High School, has an undergraduate degree in English
and a master’s degree in Special Reading. She was an English teacher for 17 years, but she felt a
need for change. So, she went back to school and got her specialist degree in school counseling.
Ms. Hurd has been a school counselor for the last 17 years and has been at Hendersonville High
School since 2002. A transcript of Susan’s interviews can be found in Appendix D.
Interviewed by Emily Curtis. Lisa Wagoner began her educational career by obtaining
a BA in Psychology from UNC- C and then obtained a M.Ed. in School Counseling from there,
as well. She has been counseling since 1990 at the elementary and high school levels (K-8
school, K-6 school, 9-12 school), and an early college), which gives her great insight to all the
areas of social and academic development of her students. “Her current school, West Yadkin
Elementary, is a rural K-6 school with 600+ students, which is a Title 1 school that has a 40%
Hispanic population. Six to eight elementary schools in Yadkin County have to share counselors
and resources” (Curtis, New, & Stambaugh, 2014, p. 3).
Bradley Shore has been a school counselor for over 15 years. He earned a bachelor of
science in psychology from Appalachian State University. He began graduate school at ASU
with plans to be a family and marriage counselor. During his studies, he decided to add school
counseling to his M.A. in Community Counseling. Bradley has experience working in K-8
schools. During his time in K-8 schools, Bradley was responsible for working the sixth through
eighth grade students. Once the schools in Yadkin County split, he began working in the K-6
schools. Bradley currently holds a split position of school counselor at Boonville Elementary
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School and Jonesville Elementary School. The two schools combined have a population of
approximately 650 students. Bradley works two and a half days a week at each school.
Dawn Huggins is currently the assistant principal at my base school, Starmount Middle
School. Dawn received her degrees in education from Appalachian State University. Dawn
earned her B.S. in Elementary Education, as an NC Teaching Fellow. This degree was followed
by an M.A. in Middle Grades Education, English Language Arts, a certificate as a Curriculum
Specialists, and an M.A. in Administration. Dawn has been working in education for 21 years at
every level except high school. Starmount Middle School has approximately 350 students. A
transcript of Emily’s interviews can be found in Appendix E.
Managing the comprehensive K-12 school counseling program
The ASCA notes that “to effectively deliver the school counseling curriculum and
address the developmental needs of every student, the school counseling program must be
effectively and efficiently managed” (2012, p. 41). In order to help in that pursuit, the ASCA
provides a variety of assessments and tools for use in evaluating a school counseling program,
such as a school counselor competencies assessment, a school counseling program assessment,
an annual agreement, and curriculum, small-group, and closing-the-gap action plans (2012).
Gysbers and Henderson offer further guidance regarding the management of a comprehensive
school counseling program when they suggest using assessments and tools like those from the
ASCA to refine how school counseling services are offered, the clarify the roles and duties of
school counselors, and foster a more effective use of school counselor time (2012).
School counseling program models employed. Whereas school counseling programs of
the past were more responsive in nature, the ASCA National Model brought focus to school
counseling programs and made the success of all students a priority (Wong, 2012). According to
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the ASCA, the National Model “...outlines the components of a comprehensive school
counseling program” and “...brings school counselors together with one vision and one voice,
which creates unity and focus toward improving student achievement” (2012, p. xii). Today,
many states have drafted their own comprehensive school counseling program models which are
heavily based on the ASCA National Model, with additional allowances for the needs and
requirements of the individual states.
In our interviews the counselors were asked what program model was currently in use in
their program and whether that program model was in place throughout the district. One of the
counselors and the administrator interviewed said that the ASCA National Model was the
program model in use in Henderson County(S. Garren, personal communication, April 15, 2015;
S. Auten, personal communication, May 1, 2015). The other two counselors said that the ASCA
National Model was the ideal, but that they didn’t really follow it (A. Hurd, personal
communication, April 2, 2015; C. Blakely, personal communication, April 14, 2015). The
middle school counselor noted that her first year at Hendersonville Middle School had been
challenging. “This year has been a year of crisis. It’s not proactive or preventative, just
reactive” (C. Blakely, personal communication, April 14, 2015). Annabelle Hurd, the counselor
at Hendersonville High School shared that, while she thinks they embrace the spirit of the ASCA
National Model, they actually follow more of an individual delivery of services model (personal
communication, April 2, 2015).
K-12 collaborative efforts. The ASCA notes that “through school, family, and
community collaboration, school counselors can access a vast array of support for student
achievement and development that cannot be achieved by an individual, or school, alone”
(ASCA, 2012, p. 6). Collaboration can occur in a variety of ways such as the following:
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school/district committees, needs assessments, program goals, teaming and partnering, and
systemic change. Woodward and Aielo suggest that an area of collaboration which tends to
challenge school counselors is vertical collaboration – elementary to middle school and middle
to high school. They gave an example of a vertical articulation team, designed to increase
collaboration between school counseling programs (2012).According to Woodward and Aielo:
By creating this team, we were able to combine developmentally appropriate programs
and resources across schools, increase the effectiveness of transition programs, better
serve families who have children in multiple schools and enhance communication among
colleagues, regardless of whether they worked at the middle or high school level(2012,
para. 3).
In our interviews, the counselors and administrators were asked how the K-12 counseling
program collaborates. All three counselors interviewed in Henderson County mentioned
transitions as an area in which the counselors collaborate, specifically at the end of the year when
younger students are bridging up to the next school such as the transition from elementary school
to middle school. Two of the counselors mentioned collaboration between schools with shared
families or with those who have previous experience with a student. The high school counselor
mentioned that she would like to receive more of a “heads up” from the middle school(S. Hurd,
personal communication, April 2, 2015; C. Blakely, personal communication, April 14, 2015; S
Garren, personal communication, April 15, 2015). The administrator who was interviewed,
shared the following, “I don’t feel like they collaborate a whole lot. There are monthly
counseling meetings, but they don’t actually happen unless there is a program planned. Crisis
response teams are a great example of the different levels working together. I wish there was
more collaboration” (S. Auten, personal communication, May 1, 2015).
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Program enhancement models. According to Gysbers and Henderson, program
enhancement is essentially program redesign. This enhancing/redesign process isn’t intended to
change the foundation of the comprehensive school counseling program, just ensure that it is still
serving the needs of its stakeholders (Gysbers and Henderson, 2012; McKenzie, 2015). Gysbers
and Henderson note that while the program description will remain the same, “what may change,
however, will occur inside the framework of the program: the content (student standards), the
descriptions and assumptions, the interventions, and the use of school counselor time and talent”
(2012, p. 381; McKenzie, 2015).
Through the enhancement process, student and program needs are identified and
addressed through the use of new activities or offerings. In our counselor interviews, the
counselors and administrators were asked to identify program enhancement models or activities
in which their schools were engaged. Ms. Garren at Fletcher Elementary mentioned that they
have both morning lab and afternoon homework club which she runs for at risk kids and for
those who might not get the help they need at home (S. Garren, personal communication, April
15, 2015). Both Ms. Auten and Ms. Blakely mentioned the use of peer mentors as positive
enhancements to a school counseling program (C. Blakely, personal communication, April 14,
2015; S. Auten, personal communication, May 1, 2015). Ms. Hurd cited the challenges of trying
to get new programs in place when the principal is not supportive of the idea (A. Hurd, personal
communication, April 2, 2015).
Counselor duties and responsibilities. The duties and responsibilities of a school
counselor are many and varied. "Probably few jobs in education have evolved as much in terms
of duties and responsibilities as that of the school counselor" (ASCA, 2012, p. 17). There are
obvious duties and responsibilities that are included in the component of delivery, such as
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individual and group counseling. Also, it is common knowledge that school counselors will
provide classroom lessons based on the guidance curriculum. However, management is often
not recognized as a duty and responsibility of school counselors, yet it is necessary and crucial to
a well-functioning comprehensive program.
Gysbers and Henderson (2012) provide four main components of a school counseling
program: guidance curriculum, individual student planning, responsive services, and system
support (Gysbers & Henderson, 2012, p. 63). Other elements of a program that school
counselors are responsible for include student standards and the element of development,
management, and accountability (Gysbers & Henderson, 2012, p. 63). The development,
management, and accountability element is an area of duty and responsibility of school
counseling that may often be overlooked or swept under the rug. It is easy to become so
overwhelmed, on a daily basis, by providing the four main components of a school counseling
program and neglect other important elements.
During the counselor interviews, each person was asked to describe the duties and
responsibilities of a school counselor. Describing the responsive services of individual
counseling, group counseling, and classroom guidance lessons were the immediate responses.
Upon further reflection, calendars, communication, and collaboration were included in regular
school counselor duties. One of the ways that communication and collaboration are carried out
is through participation in committees such as PBIS (Positive Behavior Interventions and
Supports), SWAT (School-Wide Assessment Team), SIT (School Improvement Team), faculty
meetings, etc. By participating in these committees, school counselors are able to make
connections within the school and provide support at multiple levels or areas, including
academics and system supports.
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When asked about duties, everyone was quick to mention non-counselor duties and
responsibilities, which would fall into the category of fair share duties. Lisa Wagoner
specifically requested the "duty" of morning car line (B. Shore & L. Wagoner, personal
communication, April 13, 2015; D. Huggins, personal communication, April 23, 2015).She
views this as an opportunity to make the initial contact of the day with the students. This is also
a time when she can make connections with parents and guardians. She takes advantage of the
morning car line duty as a chance to be proactive and informed in her school.
School counselors may feel overwhelmed by the myriad duties and responsibilities that are
inherent in a school counseling program, and also in a school. Including program management
as part of the daily duties and responsibilities will assist with thorough and appropriate inclusion.
When management and development are included, the process of balancing all of the
components of a comprehensive program, including the guidance curriculum, individual student
planning, responsive services, system supports, and accountability will be possible and lead to a
more successful program.
Implementation of NC Standards. Implementing the North Carolina Professional
School Counseling Standards provide school counselors with guidelines for accountability and
effective program development and management. The standards provide a “new vision for
school counseling” (North Carolina State Board of Education, Department of Public Instruction
[NCDPI], 2008). There are five standards that cover nearly every aspect of a comprehensive
school guidance and counseling program.
The NC Professional School Counseling Standards are intended by the North Carolina
Department of Public Instruction [NCDPI] to “guide professional development, provide a focus
for school counselor evaluation, and assist higher education programs in development of
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professional study programs” (NCDPI, 2008). Standard 1 addresses school counselor leadership,
advocacy, and collaboration (NCDPI, 2008). Standard 2 focuses on developing a respectful
environment for all students, with a special consideration for diversity (NCDPI, 2008). Standard
3 directly addresses the implementation of a school counseling program (NCDPI, 2008).
Standard 4 links to Standard 2 with a goal of providing access to the school counseling program
for all students (NCDPI, 2008). Standard 5 links to professional development by encouraging
school counselors to reflect on their professional practices (NCDPI, 2008).
During the school counselor interviews, the NC Standards were addressed. The school
counselors and administrator interviewed by Emily were all aware of the NC Standards. One
counselor described the NC Standards as a set of “broad guidelines” (B. Shore & L. Wagoner,
personal communication, April 13, 2015; D. Huggins, personal communication, April 23, 2015).
The other counselor and the administrator mentioned the standards as part of the former school
counselor evaluation process (B. Shore & L. Wagoner, personal communication, April 13, 2015;
D. Huggins, personal communication, April 23, 2015). Based on these responses, it would seem
that both school counselors and administrators need to have a better understanding of what the
standards say and what they have to offer to a comprehensive school guidance and counseling
program.
Issues facing school counselors with regard to program management. Management is
a major part of the school counselor role. In the ASCA National Model, management is one of
the four major components. The ASCA says, “to effectively deliver the school counseling
curriculum and address the developmental needs of every student, the school counseling program
must be effectively and efficiently managed” (2012, p. 41). Gysbers and Henderson discuss five
aspects of the school counseling program that fall under the management umbrella. Planning,
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Design, Implementation, Evaluation, and Enhancement are all pieces of management that school
counselors have to consider when creating and overseeing a comprehensive program.
Partnership between school counselors and administrators
Establishing a partnership between school counselors and administrators is crucial to an
effective comprehensive school guidance and counseling program. Collaboration is one of the
themes of the ASCA National Model (2012). "Although the school principal may serve as the
head of the school and ultimately be responsible for student services, the school counselor plays
a critical role in making student success a reality. Principals need school counselors' perspective
and leadership in working together on behalf of students in the school" (ASCA, 2012, p. 17).
Through the interviews conducted, the partnership between school counselors and
administrators was an important point. All three of the interviews conducted by Emily presented
positive perceptions of the existing relationship among the school counselors and administration.
Both the school counselors interviewed stated that they feel they are part of a team with their
administrators (B. Shore & L. Wagoner, personal communication, April 13, 2015; D. Huggins,
personal communication, April 23, 2015). There is a collaborative atmosphere. The school
counselors feel trusted to manage their school counseling programs with the support of their
administrators (B. Shore & L. Wagoner, personal communication, April 13, 2015; D. Huggins,
personal communication, April 23, 2015).
The administrative interview provided a reversed yet similar view of this relationship
from the administrative perspective. The administrator considers school counselors as part of the
administrative team. Decisions may need to be made together, with input from both
administrators and school counselors. The principal from Emily's interview felt that one role of
the school counselor is to function as a buffer before disciplinary action is necessary. She stated
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that "school counselors can diffuse situations before discipline is necessary(B. Shore & L.
Wagoner, personal communication, April 13, 2015; D. Huggins, personal communication, April
23, 2015). In the current situation at Starmount Middle School, the administration stated that
they are satisfied with the current relationship and partnership between the school counselor and
the administrative team (B. Shore & L. Wagoner, personal communication, April 13, 2015; D.
Huggins, personal communication, April 23, 2015).
When school counselors enter into a new position, it is important that the desired
relationship is communicated. School counselors and administrators should have a clear
understanding of the role and job description of each position. School counselors should be able
to discuss the expectations of the working relationship with their administrators. Administrators
should also be able to share expectations of this working relationship. When administrators and
school counselors are able to work as a collaborative team, the comprehensive school guidance
and counseling program has a higher probability of success.
Challenges to managing a school counseling program
Planning and design. Planning and design are the parts of the process where much of the
initial set up work is conducted. It is important to understand what needs to be accomplished for
the school and or district. At these points it is important to establish steering committees and
school-community advisory committees. School counselors need to be proactive about getting
the plans out to stakeholders. Assessment is a major part of these first two aspects. None of the
counselors interviewed by Elizabeth Duncan could speak to specific assessments conducted. Ms.
Takach mentioned the hopes to conduct an assessment of her high school program in the next
year or so. Ms. Takach is working with a fairly new team at Concord High School and she
mentioned that working with a new team was a good time to take a deeper look at the current
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program and make major changes based on assessments(C. Takach, personal communication,
April 7, 2015; J. Haas, personal communication, April 16, 2015; T. Scardina, personal
communication, April 17, 2015; A. Hand, personal communication, April 21, 2015).
After an assessment is completed it is necessary to begin the actual design portion of a
comprehensive program. Many portions of a design are important. For example, this is the point
in the process where the program definition, rationale, and content standards are revamped or
created. Each of the counselors interviewed in Cabarrus County made points about the
difficulties of meeting student needs versus county expectations(C. Takach, personal
communication, April 7, 2015; J. Haas, personal communication, April 16, 2015; T. Scardina,
personal communication, April 17, 2015; A. Hand, personal communication, April 21, 2015).
The planning and design portion of the management process is a good time to truly measure what
a specific school needs and how the county expectations can be met without neglecting the
specific student needs.
Implementation. Gysbers and Henderson tell us that the implementation phase “is one of
the most critical of the entire program improvement process” (2012, p. 223). All the prior work
done in the planning and design phases are put into action during the implementation phase. In
this phase resources are a major component. The administrator interviewed by Elizabeth Duncan
specifically mentioned the importance and sometimes lack of resources needed when it comes to
program management(T. Scardina, personal communication, April 17, 2015).
Evaluation and enhancement. After planning, designing, and implementing school
counselors must begin evaluating and enhancing the program. The evaluation phase is conducted
by gathering the data that has been assessed throughout time and analyzing it to make judgments
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on what to do next, what has not been working in the past and should be changed, or conversely
what is working and should be continued moving forward.
As Ms. Takach mentioned performing an assessment now that the counseling program
has some new counselors, the enhancement phases suggests that after all the aforementioned
phases are conducted, a redesign may be necessary(C. Takach, personal communication, April 7,
2015).By the time all the previous phases have been conducted there is probably a need for new
information. The school counselors and administrator interviewed by Elizabeth Duncan
discussed several challenges they face when working under the management component. When
asked, they all agreed that no matter how many times an assessment was performed or a redesign
took place, time and scheduling would stay the number one challenge(C. Takach, personal
communication, April 7, 2015; J. Haas, personal communication, April 16, 2015; T. Scardina,
personal communication, April 17, 2015; A. Hand, personal communication, April 21, 2015).
School counselors’ relationship with human service agencies
Human service agencies can play an important role in the school counseling program. It
is important for school counselors to have healthy, productive comprehensive program. Having a
positive relationship with community organizations makes a school counselor’s effectiveness
even higher. Ms. Takach made the point that sometimes there are liabilities that make it harder
for school counselors to reach students at the level they need, whereas an outside organization
may have the ability to help(C. Takach, personal communication, April 7, 2015). Families may
feel more comfortable working with an outside organization, therefore it is important for school
counselors to make connections with such places so they are able to pass along valuable
information to families who may need it.
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Process for working together. When interviewing the Cabarrus County School
counselors, when asked about working with human service organizations all gave Elizabeth the
same answer. Each counselor said that the school social worker makes the connections between
the school and human service organizations(C. Takach, personal communication, April 7, 2015;
J. Haas, personal communication, April 16, 2015; T. Scardina, personal communication, April
17, 2015; A. Hand, personal communication, April 21, 2015). The social worker has the ability
to work with families who may have students in different schools, whereas school counselors
may be limited to working with students in one school. For that reason, Ms. Haas commented
that she usually defers to the school social worker for that reason(J. Haas, personal
communication, April 16, 2015). Also, the Cabarrus County school system tends to prefer
specific organizations and Ms. Hand mentioned that she can easily defer to the school social
worker for the organizations on that list, if need be(A. Hand, personal communication, April 21,
2015).
Collaborations between counselors and members of the educational community
Counselors who work on building a relationship within our educational community can
help the students by giving them resources they may not have had previously. Counselors in
Randolph County at the area middle schools reached out to community members this year by
doing a career day for 8th graders. Julie New went and presented for Randolph Community
College to help the students understand what was involved in starting college, and getting
enrolled in the medical field. Workshops like this give the students more real world experience
and let them know what is available to them for the future.
Wheatmore High School has community leaders come in at the beginning of the school
year and present to the staff (S. Dunphy-Atkins, personal communication, April 24, 2015). They
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offer programs that can help the students with college and financial planning (S. Dunphy-Atkins,
personal communication, April 24, 2015). Once the staff has been exposed, they can call upon
those leaders to present to their students throughout the year. Seagrove Elementary School also
did a career day and had parents come in to speak to the students. This gave the students an idea
what was available for future jobs at a young age, and it also got the local parents involved.
Having as much stakeholder involvement in the programs at local schools is important when
building a comprehensive counseling program.
Crisis management models
A crisis can arise at any time. A crisis can be large or small, impacting one student or the
entire school. During a crisis situation, the school counselor should be a central figure, providing
support and necessary services to students, parents, faculty and staff, and other stakeholders.
School counselors are specifically trained to manage crisis situations and provide the support
needed by those impacted during the crisis situation.
Preparing for a crisis requires a plan and should be part of a comprehensive school
guidance and counseling program. Preparing and maintaining the school crisis plan should be
included in overall program management. The importance of school counselor involvement is
supported by the ASCA Competency IV-B-3d, which states that a school counselor “understands
what defines a crisis, the appropriate response and a variety of intervention strategies to meet the
needs of the individual, group, or school community before, during, and after crisis response”
(ASCA, 2012, p.157).
When interviewed by Emily, the counselors responded that much of the crisis
management plan in place at their schools is based on the county-wide plan that includes a
recently updated flipchart of procedures and protocols (B. Shore & L. Wagoner, personal
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communication, April 13, 2015; D. Huggins, personal communication, April 23, 2015). The
counselors stated that each of their respective schools have a crisis plan and crisis team, however
they were a bit unclear on the specific plan and members of the crisis teams (B. Shore & L.
Wagoner, personal communication, April 13, 2015; D. Huggins, personal communication, April
23, 2015). The administrator interviewed was very thorough on the school crisis plan. She
immediately got the crisis management plan for the school. She reviewed where the plan was
kept, who is involved in the plan development and maintenance. She was clear on the
applicability of the county crisis flipchart, along with the school-specific crisis plan. At the
administrator’s school, the school counselor, which is Emily, is an intricate part of the crisis
management team and plan. Dawn, the administrator, believes in strong central counselor
involvement, as often as possible, especially during a crisis situation, even if the crisis only
involves one student(B. Shore & L. Wagoner, personal communication, April 13, 2015; D.
Huggins, personal communication, April 23, 2015).
Understanding and preparing for a crisis is unfortunately a necessary part of a school
counseling program. Professional school counselors must be aware of the district and school
crisis management plan and any tools that are part of that plan, such as flipcharts or emergency
action binders. School counselors must stay up to date on crisis management delivery and
responsive services, in order to be prepared for any situation that may arise.
ASCA Competencies on Program Management
As we work to build a comprehensive counseling program for our students, it is
important that we understand our program and how to management it effectively. The ASCA
offers us competencies to help us implement this process. When a counselor is getting started
with their program management model, she “(III-B-4a.) creates a system support planning
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 21
document addressing school counselor’s responsibilities for professional development,
consultation and collaboration and program management” (ASCA, 2014, p. 5). Doing so will
help define the counselor role for the administration, and help set appropriate boundaries within
the school. During Julie’s interview with Ms. Peele, she determined that in Randolph County,
there is no comprehensive counseling plan that everyone uses. Instead, most counselors have
developed their own process and in quite a few cases there is no specific plan (B. Peele, personal
communication, April 10, 2015). This sentiment was echoed during Julie’s visit with Southwest
Randolph Middle School as well as Wheatmore High School which are all in the same county
system.
In working with the school, counselors (IV-B-1) should “negotiate(s) with the
administrator to define the management system for the comprehensive school counseling
program” (ASCA, 2014, p. 6) and then (IV-B-1a.) discuss (es) and develop(s) the components of
the school counselor management system with the other members of the counseling staff”
(ASCA, 2014, p. 6). When meeting with the administration, it is important to discuss job
descriptions so that it is clear to all parties what the counselor’s program will cover. When
speaking with Ms. Harden at the Southwest Randolph Middle School [SWRMS], it became clear
very quickly that this may not always happen (P. Harden, & B. Roberti, personal
communication, April 10, 2015). There had been quite a bit of turnover in the last few years at
SWRMS so while Ms. Harden had over 15 years of counseling experience, she was building a
new relationship with administrators from scratch (P. Harden, & B. Roberti, personal
communication, April 10, 2015). Ms. Roberti had only been in counseling for a short time and
was learning to build her program model and working on building a relationship with her new
administrators as well.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 22
The ASCA competency list also directs us to make sure that we use “(IV-A-4.) time
management, including long- and short-term management using tools such as schedules and
calendars” (ASCA, 2014, p. 6). Being organized will show our administrations that we are
managing our programs well, and that we take our profession very seriously. Ms. Dunphy-Atkins
from Wheatmore High School, uses the school website to list calendar activities for her students
and staff (S. Dunphy-Atkins, personal communication, April 24, 2015). She has a calendar she
uses for herself but did state she has quite a bit of difficulty using long range planning at the high
school level because she ends up putting out fires daily that were not on the original agenda (S.
Dunphy-Atkins, personal communication, April 24, 2015).
(IV-A-6.) “Current and emerging technologies such as use of the Internet, Web-based
resources and management information systems” (ASCA, 2014, p. 6) give counselors a way to
instantly advocate for themselves. Ms. Peele at Seagrove Elementary School has created a
fantastic plan for tracking her activity. She created a google doc form which has basic
information on her student (confidentially) that allows her to track interventions. She uses a
series of issues such as study skills, or anxiety to categorize her student interactions. The form
then feeds into a PowerPoint presentation that is updated immediately upon entry of one of these
forms. She can instantly graph and show her administration where she is spending her time,
what issues her students are facing the most often, and can create lesson plans to help.
Gysbers & Henderson Comprehensive Guidance and Counseling Program Model
When reviewing the ASCA National Model along with the plan given to us by Gysbers &
Henderson, we see that there are many overlaps in the processes. We can also compare the
program to Lewis, Packard and Lewis (2012) for their human service model components. The
table in Appendix A will give us a comparison of these areas.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 23
CONCLUSIONS
Management is a vital part of how school counseling programs operate. Management
encompasses so much of the responsibilities that school counselors have. Whether it is following
state standards, the ASCA National Model and competencies, assessing the program at hand, or
collaborating with other counselors the role of a school counselor is busy and ever evolving.
As pre-service counselors we have learned much about what it takes to be successful in
creating and implementing comprehensive school counseling programs. Through the process of
interviewing current school counselors in the “real” world we have been able to get a glimpse of
some of what we have learned being put into action. With collaboration between grade levels,
working with Human Service Organizations, and creating relationships with community
stakeholders school counselors must advocate for the programs and the students served. With all
that school counselors are balancing, student development remains at the heart of the work they
do.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 24
References
American School Counselor Association. (2012). ASCA national model: A framework for school
counseling programs (3rd ed.). Alexandria, VA: Author.
American School Counselor Association (2014). ASCA school counselor competencies.
Retrieved from schoolcounselor.org/asca/media/asca/home/SCCompetencies.pdf
Curtis, E., New, J., & Stambaugh, A. (2014). School counseling in the real world.
Gysbers, N., & Henderson, P. (2012). Developing & managing your school guidance &
counseling program (5th ed.). Alexandria, VA: American Counseling Association.
Lewis, J., Packard, T., & Lewis, M. (2012). Management of human service programs (5th ed.).
Belmont, CA: Brooks/Cole, Cengage Learning.
McKenzie, S. (2015). EDUC 665: Week 12 discussion 1. Unpublished manuscript. Retrieved
from http://salem.mrooms.net/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1854
New, J. (2015). EDUC 665: week 4 discussion 1. Unpublished manuscript. Retrieved from
http://salem.mrooms.net/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1314
North Carolina State Board of Education, Department of Public Instruction. (2008). North
Carolina professional school counseling standards. Retrieved from
http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/studentsupport/counseling/standards/
counselingstandards.pdf
Wong, K. (2012). Introduction. In ASCA national model: A framework for school counseling
programs (3rd ed., p. x-xi). Alexandria, VA: American School Counselor Association.
Woodward, A., & Aeilo, B. (2012). Collaborate vertically. Retrieved from
https://www.schoolcounselor.org/magazine/blogs/january-february-2012/collaborate-
vertically
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 25
Appendix A
Table 1
Comparison of program models
ASCA Human Service Model Comprehensive program elements
Foundation Planning, Designing,
Staffing
Job design including
hiring and recruitment
practices (Lewis, Packard,
& Lewis, 2012)
Content Element, organizational framework
& structure; “Student standards; competencies
grouped by domains and specified by grade level
or grade level groupings” (Gysbers & Henderson,
2012, table 3.2). “Structural components,
definition, assumptions, rationale” (Gysbers &
Henderson, 2012, table 3.2). Program
components such as student planning, responsive
services, and system support are also included
here (Gysbers & Henderson, 2012).
Delivery Leadership
Orientation, training
programs (Lewis et al.,
2012)
Resource Element
“Personnel: school counselors, teachers
administrators, school psychologists and school
social workers” (Gysbers & Henderson, 2012,
table 3.2). “Financial: budget, materials,
equipment, facilities” (Gysbers & Henderson,
2012, table 3.2). “Political: district policies, state
and federal laws and rules” (Lewis et al., 2012,
table 3.2).
Management Supervising
Further training,
performance reviews,
understanding
Development, management element
“Planning: guidance leadership, steering
committee, advisory committee” (Gysbers &
Henderson, 2012, table 3.2). “Designing: written
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 26
management objectives;
encouraging staff
involvement, dealing with
employee stress and job
satisfaction (Lewis et al.,
2012)
framework, program priorities” (Gysbers &
Henderson, 2012, table 3.2).
Accountability Monitoring
Following federal
guidelines, valuing
diversity
Accountability Element
“Evaluating: program evaluation, personnel
evaluation, results of evaluation” (Gysbers &
Henderson, 2012, table 3.2). “Enhancing:
evaluation data, program redesign” (Gysbers &
Henderson, 2012, table 3.2).
(New, 2015)
Appendix B
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 27
Interview Transcripts from Julie New:
Becky Peele: Seagrove Elementary School; UNC Chapel Hill for both degrees; handles 480
students and has been employed for 4 years as a counselor – 2 years at Seagrove.
1. Program Model – roughly uses ASCA guidelines, there is no countywide
comprehensive system in Randolph County NC.
2. Transitions: does classroom lessons on transitioning from ES, MS to HS. Believes
it is important to start young with the students.
3. Program enhancements: Has Mentoring program (CIS) Second Step and uses
Olweus for anti-bullying program. Olweus is a county wide initiative. Works district
wide with the Backpack program, and they implement 30 backpacks.
4. Crisis system: District Wide Assist Team: 5 teams, Lead, Logistics, Individual
and class counseling, parent and teacher assistance.
5. Other duties: work with BPP/DSS – mental health. MTSS/Parent Conferences,
home visitations. Leadership team, teacher consultations, student of the week, attendance.
*Tracks everything with google calendar and a google form she created (Scan as an
appendix). The form allows tracks appointments, guidance lessons and other items such
as the back pack program. It feeds into a Quick Facts PowerPoint that graphs all the
times. She can instantly show what she is doing and advocate for herself. Using this data,
she was able to advocate for a classroom of her own for guidance lessons. Now the
students come to her!
6. Non counselor duties – doesn’t get pulled into too many, her administrators are
very helpful and have set a good boundary.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 28
7. Philosophy of program management: Serving EVERY child. She believes she
needs to try and reach as many of the students as possible.
8. Challenges: Scheduling continues to be an issue, there just isn’t enough time to
get it all done
9. Uses the NC standards, Common Core because that is what is expected. Uses
ASCA as foundation, but not as formal.
10. Administrative relationship: open, supportive, mutually beneficial, collaborate on
specific students. Tends to ask her opinion in counseling areas. They work together well.
11. Considers her relationship with administration already good, would like it to
continue along this path.
12. Management: planning lessons, data collection, and logistics. Having her own
class has helped a lot because she doesn’t have to move all the stuff around when
teaching.
13. Challenges with management: TIME, or lack of it really. Could always use more
time with students. Currently sets up half days for 3 weeks out of the month with student
classroom time, other half has to see all the students and handle any administrative type
tasks. Would like more individual counseling time.
14. Contacts with human service: CIS=-BPP, mentoring and clubs
15. By working with the district
16. Human service contacts: give us resources, community connections. Social
worker is spread between multiple schools so it is helpful to have other resources. Spends
a lot of time online researching herself since no comprehensive program in Randolph
County.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 29
17. Continuing to learn: there are Prof Development opportunities available and her
administration is open to her attending. She strong suggests being on leadership teams.
Going to conferences is also a good place to college data
18. Stakeholders: surveys for students, teachers the website/ parents and community.
She feels it is important to reach out to all those concerned parties.
19. How does she get involved: Teacher PLCS/leadership meetings, conferences,
phone calls, staff meetings
20. Four areas of focus from ASCA: pretty open when she arrived. She has had to
build her own program so to speak. Uses the ASCA guidelines daily, but loosely.
21. Changes you have made, or would like to make: BEP/SW involvement, own
classroom for guidance lessons, data collection and dissemination. Being able to show
accountability quickly advocates for self and program. Always lobby for your own
printer, you print a lot of confidential items.
Brittany Roberti handles the 7th and 8th grade students. She has been a counselor for
two years and graduated from UNC-G for both her undergrad and graduate program.
Pam Harden handles 6th and 8th grade students. She has been a counselor for 15
years, but has been at SWRMS for just a year. Between the two of them, they handle over
1100 students.
1. There is no countywide program, everyone has to invent their own process. Pam
has been doing this for 15 years so Brittany relies on her quite a bit.
2. Standards: use the common core, but a lot of the time, are just working on staying
caught up. Has guidance lessons – attends heath classes to see their students and it works
out that they see each student in these lessons approx. once a month.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 30
3. Program enhancements: they work by grades, and lessons are developed to benefit
each grade level. They implemented an evaluation form for the students to complete once
they have taken a class so they can make changes as necessary as needs arise. They keep
notebooks on lessons they have completed so they do not have to reinvent the wheel
every year.
4. Crisis: there are teams in the district, they believe in building helping
relationships in order to be able to reach students during time of crisis.
5. Duties outside of counseling: Testing coordinators, scheduling, emergencies, have
even had to ride the buses. They are pulled in many directions but it always their focus to
watch out for the students.
6. Non-counselor duties: they can vary, but in most cases their administration
protects them as much as possible. They could always use more time to work with
students one on one
7. Philosophy: IT IS ALL ABOUT THE KIDS PERIOD.
8. Issues: never having enough time to get it all done. Working with so many
different children. Having to try to help quickly because students at this age tend to be
upset one minute and ok the next. “You either love working with this age or you don’t”
Pam said ((P. Harden, & B. Roberti, personal communication, April 10, 2015). Once you
work with them you will not want to work with anyone else, it’s a calling they believe.
9. Standards: work hard to follow the standards though a lot of it is common sense
10. Relationship with administration: there has been a lot of turnover at this school,
including the principal and vice principal in the last year. The new administration is
really nice and is working with them well.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 31
11. Would like to continue to build an open relationship and get to know them.
Would like to work with them to implement an even stronger program. There is not really
anything to assess because of the turnover, starting from scratch.
12. Management: just keeping up seems to be what happens a lot of the time.
Working to put in more structure
13. Challenges: TIME
14. Human services organizations: work with social workers and a nurse that travel to
multiple schools. We have quite a bit of poverty in our school zone so there is always
someone to help.
15. Connections are made as they need them such as for recent career day. Since Pam
has been doing this so much longer, she has quite a few contacts already.
16. It is important to work with the community and this gives us added resources
17. We do have access to professional development and we learn a lot by helping
each other seemed to be how they work things out. Administration is fine with them
doing Prof Development activities as long as they fit in and do not cost funds that may
not be available.
18. Working with stakeholders in the school and community they believe is
important. BUT they believe the children come first always.
19. They work through teacher conferences and leadership meetings to build
relationships.
20. They do not have a lot of time to try and implement the ASCA model because
they are pushed towards the common core. They do use it, they just have to be more
vocal about Core.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 32
21. Implementing more structure and stability over the next few years is their goal.
Shelia Dunphy-Atkins
1. We use some of the ASCA model in our program, but we all follow the NC
school counselor model which is heavy into ASCA.
2. K-12 doesn’t really collaborate much with curriculum, we try to build off career
guidance activities and we do collaborate with some programs if they need to continue
into the middle and high school. But realistically, you have to work with the needs of
your students and what is important currently.
3. Our school doesn’t do anything in this area.
4. Crisis management team: There are five crisis management teams that are
compiled of counselors that are compiled of counselors, central office staff, school
psychologist, social workers, nurses and dropout prevention specialist that rotate if a
crisis occurs at a school or multiple schools. We each have a role and we have training
for what that role is. If something happens at a school we are evacuated to our off campus
location for parents to pick up, certain staff members are assigned specific jobs. If
something happens a school such as a shooting, there is a countywide response with local
law enforcement, the SRO, state troopers etc. Each staff member has a specific job (to
keep kids safe) and make sure they are following the procedures we have in place. We
are trained several times a year on roles and responsibilities.
5. Roles: Advance Placement Test coordinator. It is my responsibility to inform
students when and where the tests are located. Diabetes/504/Autism county wide teams,
lunch duty, covering our secretaries when they are out/answering phones, student
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 33
enrollments, school improvement teams, faculty senate, gate duty for athletics, hall
monitor, testing administrator, anything else assigned by administration.
6. Which do you consider – non counselor duties? All of these are non-counselor
duties, yet things need to be done. Team Work. About 25% of my day is occupied with
items such as these.
7. Philosophy: I am here to help and swerve the kids the best possible way. To
prepare them for adulthood and guide them to be productive members of society. To
bring them what they need, not what I want.
8. Challenges: Class guidance, small groups, time, never able to follow a set
schedule. Expect the unexpected. The change in leadership at central office. New director
at the county office has a different philosophy than the previous one. He lets us do what
we want, not much direction or communication has occurred. At school level teaching
time is valuable to get the curriculum taught, teachers frown when you pull a student
from their class, they think they should only see us during their LUNCH or before or
after school. If that was the case, we would never see students. Groups are hard to get
together at this HS because there are no study halls or free time.
9. How do you implement standards: Look at the standards, do a check/balance and
rate myself then align my weaker areas into where I need to focus my professional
development plan. There isn’t much offered for this at the school/district level, I have to
find it on my own.
10. Relationship with administrator: We have a good relationship. I don’t take every
little thing to them, when I feel they need to know I inform them. I do ask them for
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 34
suggestions and feedback and we can talk about students. If they have concerns, we
discuss it and come up with a solutions that will hopefully be a win win for all parties.
11. Changes that could help: The counselor and the admin need each other, currently
no changes need to be done but if a new admin was to come in, we will have to work
together.
12. No additional answer
13. Duplicate question
14. Human Svc Org: Communities in School, NCMENTOR, COAT, DSS – these are
the ones we use the most. They don’t really have a role that impacts us directly.
15. How did you make these connections: we call them, they present at our first
meeting of the year for counselors.
16. Relationships: If we are doing a program and would like them to speak we can
call and set something up. Personal connections: If an agency is not friendly, or their
response is takes too LONG, we don’t call them
17. We do not work with this area much, we each build our own program. ASCA is
always in the back of our minds, but we have to work with the NC Core standards.
18. I meet with students and their parents as often as I can. I do a lot of getting
students ready for college, working with FAFSA, scholarships and what they want to do.
19. To keep people informed, we use our school website, connected messages and
parent meetings.
20. I do not have a specific a printed model using ASCA at this time. I update my
programs as necessary
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 35
21. I have been here since the school opened, I had to build my program into what it
is and I change it based on how the student’s needs change.
Drew Maerz: Administration
I had sent him the questions in advance that I had asked the counselors. He gave me his
perspective from the testing assessment side of the house as well as his view as a principal.
When he first started, the counselor was the testing coordinator, now state law says they
cannot be. They can help but they cannot be in charge. They work on teams to help the students
and do things like look at the data from test such as basic skills testing to see how to help the
students more.
As a principal, he built a team in the school that looked at the top five students with
issues or that they were most worried about each week. The team was made up of the counselor,
the AP, the nurse, the social worker and the receptionist. Then the team brain stormed ways to
help this child. Most of the time the students did not end up on the list two weeks in a row, but if
they did, there was more involvement by all parties. If they could not help them without outside
intervention, parents or authorities would be contacted.
His views on the counselors as an administrators is that:
They need to be valued and empowered more
There needs to be more of a team model
In HS, freshman need their own counselor, rest can be divided alphabetical
Counselors need to work on a five year plan with students early. They need to do things like
career inventories and surveys.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 36
If he could build anything he wanted, he believes that there should be one or two advocates at
each school for each student. There has to be an adult that a child can trust, whether it is the
teacher, a coach, the counselors. He believes in mentors both students and adults that can help
the new students succeed. Groups are great, but can be difficult to do at different ages. Having
mentors may work better.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 37
Appendix C
Interview Transcripts from Elizabeth Duncan:
1. What is the program model currently in use in your school counseling program? To your
knowledge, is this program in place throughout the school district?
Haas: ASCA National Model with freedom to mesh with N.C. Essential Standards
Hand: ASCA National Model built from county adjustments, county tries to use same domains as
ASCA
Takach: National Model- varies by school how it is implemented.
Scardina: “Right now, we have our guidance counselor teaching classes 3 days per week and
then providing direct services (small groups, individual, and then other duties) the other 2 days.
It’s not ideal but as a small school with limited staffing, it makes it a necessity. I believe most
elementary schools have their counselors in the specials rotations, but I wouldn’t swear to it.”
2. In what ways does the K-12 counseling program collaborate? (If prompting is needed,
transitions are one area in which collaboration occurs…)
Haas: As 5th grade counselor works with middle school 6th grade counselor, elementary monthly
PLC, and collaborates with the school social worker who works with K-12
Hand: Monthly middle school PLC and sometimes collaborates with feeder high schools.
Takach: Through previous experience with K-5 has a good connection with other teachers. High
school counselors have a monthly PLC (professional learning community). Works with feeder
Middle school counselors.
Scardina: “The district director of student services holds K-12 meetings (PLCs) about once per
month or at least once per quarter. I think outside of that there is not much collaboration unless
individuals take it upon themselves to have that vertical collaboration.”
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 38
3. In what program enhancement models or activities is your school counseling program
currently engaged? (School or district-wide Peer Helping, for example…)
Haas: School-wide PBIS (serves as leader)
Hand: School-wide Rachel’s challenge (bullying program), also have some connections with arts
council
Takach: varies from school to school, no district-wide programs
Scardina: “I am unfamiliar with what you mean by program enhancement models. Our
counselor facilitates the New Student Club which meets once a month and provides lessons over
lunch to new students to help acclimate them to our school and school culture. She sponsors the
Student Action Team, which carries out service projects for the community, and she also
sponsors Safety Patrol where our 5th grade students stand post and help throughout the school.
She organizes mentor programs between our local firefighters and our at risk students.”
4. In a school setting, a crisis might be anything from the death of a student or teacher, a
natural disaster, such as a fire or tornado, to a threat to students and staff, such as those involving
weapons or the taking of hostages. What crisis management plans or models does your school or
the school districts have in place to address these potential issues? Is there a crisis management
team?
Haas: County model, county provides a crisis team. Administration is in charge of safety plans
for most situations and counselors follow administration instruction
Hand: County model, county crisis team (counselors and social workers). Having outside help
really makes it easier to help students.
Takach: District wide plans, personalized for each administration, there is a county team
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 39
Scardina: “We have a designated Crisis Team with defined roles for anticipated scenarios.
Depending on the event or crisis, the different roles change. Members of our crisis team include
administrators, counselor, nurse, custodians, and office staff. Our school social worker is also a
key player in some instances but since she is only with us one morning a week, she is a resource
in the event of an unforeseen, immediate crisis. The plans are district-wide with individual
school flexibility.”
5. Please describe some of your duties and responsibilities, outside of classroom lessons, small
group counseling, and individual counseling.
Haas: car duty (a.m. and or p.m.), 30 minutes of supplemental instruction- teaching or
classroom assistance in addition to whole class instruction, occasional lunch duty. Kindergarten
intervention facilitator
Hand: morning/afternoon duty and scheduled lunch duty
Takach: morning/afternoon duty
(each counselor mentioned liking some of the duties (like morning/afternoon) to increase face
time and general contact with students)
Scardina: “Our counselor is in charge of service projects such as food and clothing drives,
student action teams, safety patrol, Wellness Fair (in conjunction with our school nurse), Career
Day, on/off task student observations, partnering with community agencies such as outside
counseling services, referrals, mentor programs, church partnerships, school based committees,
administering state tests, supervision duties (like breakfast or hall duty).”
6. Which of these duties do you consider "non-counselor" duties? What percentage of an
average school day is dedicated to performing "non-counselor" duties?
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 40
Haas: facilitator duties helps advocate for students and helps with intervention… each duty can
fit into counselor’s role
Hand: low percentage
Takach: not much
Scardina: “I would think administering tests would fall into that category but you could also
argue that by the counselor giving the test to students with specific needs helps calm them and
helps them make it through the 3 hour test which in turn, lets them show their true abilities. The
supervision duties aren’t “direct services” but do provide opportunities for the counselor to be
visible and foster relationships with students, their families, and staff. Our counselor is able to
keep a pulse on the school and intervene when there is a need during these duty times.”
7. Discuss your philosophy of program management, in regard to your school counseling
program.
Haas: see power point
Hand: depends on the day-plan for the unexpected, use broad timelines
Takach: Team philosophy is based on data and need
Scardina: “The philosophy that I have is to meet the needs of our students, families and staff
utilizing all of the resources (curriculum, services, agencies) to the best of our ability. Since
much of that lies outside of my control, I do not have a better answer. J”
8. What are some of the challenges, or issues, that you deal with as you try to manage your
program? Which issues are school-level issues and which ones are district-level issues?
Haas: time/schedule
Hand: time/schedule
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 41
Takach: schedule, student needs vs. program needs, unexpected always happens, school needs
vs. county needs
Scardina: “Some of the challenges we face are time and resources. We are fortunate enough to
have our counselor here at school 5 days/week but not all schools do. The time demands are very
high on counselors so it is a challenge to make things work, for example: classroom lessons,
small groups, individual counseling, teacher support, and all of the other things she takes care
of. Most of those are school level issues and it’s the district that is in charge of personnel
allotments. That translates into time/resources.”
9. Discuss how you implement the NC Standards within your school counseling program.
Haas: follow/match lessons to grade standards
Hand: check off standards as implemented, use curriculum crosswalks online, PLC
collaboration
Takach: following guidelines and implementing based on school needs, provide artifacts
Scardina: “Our counselor teaches lessons that follow the curriculum for each grade level. She is
also able to implement lessons/topics based on specific need or data. “
10. Please describe your perception of the relationship between you (the school counselor) and
your administrators.
Haas: good support, with PBIS there is a lot of collaboration; they understand the counselor’s
jobs
Hand: very strong relationships, fabulous respect, protects the role, and understands what the
counselor’s job is, feel supported and free to work how see fit
Takach: great support, believe in the program and the work the counselors do, work together for
students’ needs
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 42
Scardina: “As an administrator, I have to trust that my counselor will bring important issues
with students, families, or staff to my attention as appropriate and I also have to trust that I can
go to them to seek assistance with a concern with students, families, staff as well. We are a team
that keeps each other in balance: the counselor focusing on the counselor aspect and myself
focusing on the admin bigger picture. We may not always agree but do respect each other’s
expertise and opinions. Our common vision/ goal is to serve our school population.”
11. Please describe how you believe the relationship between the school counselor and the
administration should be? Are there changes that need to occur on the administrative level to
improve your ability to manage your program?
Haas: no changes
Hand: no changes
Takach: no changes
Scardina: “I think I addressed that more in the previous question. I have worked with many
different counselors over the years and at all levels, K-12. I’ve been in situations where the
relationships were not as good and sometimes even better. When it comes down to it, the
counselor/administrative relationship plays a vital role in theschool climate and culture. Ideally,
counselors would not be tied to a teaching a schedule so that they could be free to implement the
counseling program with fidelity. At the secondary level, I don’t think the counselors are tied to
classroom teaching, but are burdened with scheduling and graduation constraints.”
12. Management is one of the four major components of the ASCA National Model. Planning,
design, implementation, evaluation, and enhancement are major parts of management for
comprehensive school counseling programs. Can you tell me how you are able to include
management (including planning, design, implementation, evaluation, and enhancement)?
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 43
Haas: Not answered
Hand: Not answered
Takach: ASCA model is constantly on her mind, begins the process following guide but tends to
lose track as the plan progresses. One of the thing the department hopes to improve on.
Scardina: “It’s a collaborative process for us in that our counselor plans and implements her
program with the given parameters/time constraints. She surveys staff and students for feedback
on services and needs, reflects on the results and makes changes as necessary. Our counselor is
visionary and constantly seeks to do more even when we tell her that she really can’t take on
anything else. Time management and responding to needs of our population is sometimes hard to
balance.”
13. Can you tell me which human service organizations your school has a relationship with and
what role the organizations play in the school counseling program?
Haas: social worker handles this
Hand: social worker handles
Takach: social worker
Scardina: “Our counselor maintains positive relationships with DSS, the Cabarrus Health
Alliance, Thompson’s Counseling Agency, Firefighters, Businesses and charity organizations in
the community. They either provide direct services to our students and families (counseling,
mentoring, Positive Parenting classes, mental, physical, and dental health resources),
fundraising, or are resources with whom we can collaborate.”
14. How did you make the connections to the human service organizations to create the
relationships?
Haas: uses social worker’s list
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 44
Hand: social worker
Takach: district wide connections usually, social worker
Scardina: “Our counselor reaches out to the different organizations and collaborates with them.
She builds those relationships through constant communication.”
15. What do you feel is the importance of having relationships with the human service
organizations for the success of your program and the success of your students?
Haas: helps students in ways the school can’t, have the ability to work with whole families
Hand: work with whole family instead of just student in one school
Takach: Schools are sometimes limited by liability where as HSO may not be, families may be
more open with HSO, HSO can create more open and longer relationships
Scardina: “It is extremely important to partner with the different organizations because often
they can provide the resources and support to students and families that we cannot.”
16. (E, F) The ASCA National Model Competencies tell us that a school counselor (III-B-4a.)
“Creates a system support planning document addressing school counselor’s responsibilities for
professional development, consultation and collaboration and program management” (American
School Counselor Association, 2012, p. 5). Can you tell me how this works within your
program?
Haas: see Boger Documents, wish had more time to develop more resources
Hand: Not answered
Takach: Not answered
Scardina:” With our district student services director and guidance counselors, they work
together to develop a complete service plan that outlines the guidance program.”
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 45
17. (E, F) I-A-6. States “collaborations with stakeholders such as parents and guardians,
teachers, administrators and community leaders to create learning environments that promote
educational equity and success for every student” (American School Counselor Association,
2012, p. 2). Can you elaborate on how you would build and use these relationships within your
program assessment and implementation of changes?
Haas: website and other handouts
Hand: Handbook information, website information, working with administration on goals
Takach: follow the ASCA model and constantly look for ways of development, accountability,
etc.
Scardina: not answered
18. I-B-1e. “Describes the benefits of a comprehensive school counseling program for all
stakeholders, including students, parents, teachers, administrators, school boards, department of
education, school counselors, counselor educators, community stakeholders and business
leaders” (American School Counselor Association, 2012, p. 2). Can you tell me how you as a
school counselor or administrator communicate your program to the various groups listed above?
Haas: websites and handouts
Hand: information in handbook, websites, working with administration on goals, PLC
Takach: website, PLC
Scardina: “During curriculum nights or at our annual Wellness Fair, we communicate all of the
services and resources to our parents. After that, we communicate those individually as the need
arises. Our counselor stays in constant contact with all stakeholders to stay abreast of new
research, resources, etc. as well.”
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 46
19. The ASCA National Model gives us four areas to work within as we implement a
comprehensive guidance program; the foundation, delivering the program, managing the
program and holding the program accountable. Do you use this method within your current
program? Did you develop it for your school, or was it already set up when you arrived?
Haas: try to follow the model in planning and implementing
Hand: not answered
Takach: not answered
Scardina:” We use the state rubric to evaluate, monitor, and plan our program. At the end of
each year, our counselor meets with the administrative team to reflect on the program and what
we want to differently for the upcoming year.”
20. Gysbers and Henderson give us a ten year plan that has year one working with assessing the
current program and deciding what you would like to change. Have you done this type of
assessment and how did you decide what changes you would like to make?
Haas: no formal assessment
Hand: overtime trying to slowly grow the ASCA model in the program, so many changes through
the years
Takach: no formal assessment, lots of things they are working on
Scardina: “I am not familiar with this assessment.”
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 47
Appendix D
Interview Transcripts from Susan McKenzie
1. What is the program model currently in use in your school counseling program? To your
knowledge, is this program in place throughout the school district?
Garren – We follow the ASCA National Model. The new NC Standards/Evaluation have kind
of forced our hands. Everyone is going to this model.
Blakely – I would normally follow the ASCA model, but that isn’t possible here. I do
individual, small group, and classroom guidance. This year has been a year of crisis. It’s not
proactive or preventative, just reactive. Lots of intervention and crisis management.
Hurd – Services are not delivered the same at al high schools. We tend to follow more of an
individual delivery of services model. We divide the students alphabetically between the two
counselors. We see each student at least 2x per year. We tailor services to students’ needs. Big
services are divided between the 2 counselors. There is no advisory committee/council. We try
to cover all the aspects of a comprehensive program.
Auten – The ASCA National Model. Counselors have many other duties. I feel like I do more
counseling than 2 of our 3 counselors.
2. In what ways does the K-12 counseling program collaborate? (If prompting is needed,
transitions are one area in which collaboration occurs…)
Garren – Transitions: 5th grade visits middle school, 8th grade visits high school, and pre-
schools visit kindergarten. Elementary, middle, and high schools collaborate on shared families.
Participate in district-wide trainings. Crisis planning /teams.
Blakely – Transition planning, student clubs, call previous schools to find out about students’
past experiences.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 48
Hurd – The County sets up meetings for all counselors. We sometimes collaborate with the
middle school. If there are big topics which affect everyone, all the counselors will meet
together. I would like more of a “heads up” from the middle school about upcoming students.
Auten – I don’t feel like they collaborate a whole lot. There are monthly counseling meetings,
but they don’t actually happen unless there is a program planned. Crisis response teams are a
great example of the different levels working together. I wish there was more collaboration. The
district supervisor (who has been mentioned by everyone) is one reason for this.
3. In what program enhancement models or activities is your school counseling program
currently engaged? (School or district-wide Peer Helping, for example…)
Garren – Afternoon homework club for kids who don’t get help at home or who need more
attention. Also use peer tutors (older kids) to help. Morning lab (7:30) when first bus arrives –
take at risk kids for homework help or to play educational apps on the iPads. Fletcher UMC
provides volunteers in AM/PM. We have a big career day every year – lots of parents come. It’s
a big event!
Blakely – I haven’t done much here, but at other schools I had buddies or mentors in place. I am
planning 8th grade “buddies” next year for the 6th graders. Backpack program.
Hurd – We set up a math tutoring program through the counseling office which has been really
successful. We have tried to get some other programs going, but the principal is not on board.
Auten – They have started a lot of peer mentor activities. Henderson County getting more
involved in outside activities like Relay for Life. Clusters do a good job working together.
4. In a school setting, a crisis might be anything from the death of a student or teacher, a
natural disaster, such as a fire or tornado, to a threat to students and staff, such as those involving
weapons or the taking of hostages. What crisis management plans or models does your school or
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 49
the school districts have in place to address these potential issues? Is there a crisis management
team?
Garren – There are a cross-grade level crisis management teams for the district made up of
groups of feeder schools. There is a process when a crisis occurs – a phone tree is activated and
all counselors on the team go to the school with a crisis. There are crisis drills at the schools.
There is a new suicide scale used to judge the seriousness of the problem.
Blakely – There are crisis management teams in the county which are separated by zones –
phone tree and leader. There are crisis management plans for each situation.
Hurd – A middle school counselor organized the crisis response teams. It’s a school-wide
collaboration involving each school. It has worked really well!
Auten - The crisis response teams work in clusters. They have a formal plan. Administrators
are much more comfortable with a formal plan!
5. Please describe some of your duties and responsibilities, outside of classroom lessons, small
group counseling, and individual counseling.
Garren – Tier 2 and 3 team leadership takes a huge amount of time. I’m also on every
committee known to man.
Blakely – Attendance L, 504 coordinator, 6th grade orientation, Christmas donations, backpack
program, car duty
Hurd – I am in charge of Governor’s School applications, PSAT, AP program,
Career/Personality assessments, Junior English classes, gate duty, lunch duty, outside duty. The
other counselor does scholarship bulletins, awards day, and Move Up day. We both work with
Homebound.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 50
Auten – Testing coordinators (I wish someone other than a counselor could do this). I wish
counselors gave college ready tests – ACT, SAT, College & Career, Work Keys, PSAT, PLAN.
Checking with at-risk kids – I which there was a larger connection with outside agencies. We
need to have a non-profit fair that is actually targeted to those agencies that serve our kids. Most
of what they do is directly related to students.
6. Which of these duties do you consider "non-counselor" duties? What percentage of an
average school day is dedicated to performing "non-counselor" duties?
Garren – I don’t spend a lot of time on non-counselor duties because I have advocated for
myself and my position. I swapped out non-counselor duties (bartered) like morning and
afternoon coverage and do the morning and afternoon labs instead, which I feel are “counselee”.
Blakely – Almost all. It depends on the day. I have to take stuff home a lot. At least 50% of
every day.
Hurd – The AP program should probably be handled by someone else. I think it’s actually a
pretty low percentage of time – 1-2%.
Auten – They don’t really have a lot of non-counselor duties. I wish their AM/PM duties were
just in the afternoon so they could be available for the kids when they get to school. Also, they
don’t use their administrative assistant as they should – she could take over a lot of the
administrative work they do.
7. Discuss your philosophy of program management, in regard to your school counseling
program.
Garren – It takes a lot of work to balance a good program. “It’s a dance” figuring out what your
school needs – I use data and constantly tweak services to meet those needs.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 51
Blakely – Ideally, there would be an emphasis on services and programming. It would be skill
based (like coping skills). Individual/small group counseling and classroom guidance. Crisis
management would be a priority, but I would hope to avoid it through preventative measures.
We need another school counselor (610 students).
Hurd – There is no committee structure. The other counselor and I know how the year flows.
We work on it together.
Auten – Two of our counselors are fairly new, so they come to me a lot for advice. When I say
fairly new, I mean they have been here for several years. I feel like I’m still doing a lot of
program management for them. I wish they would be more self-starting, take on some
leadership.
8. What are some of the challenges, or issues, that you deal with as you try to manage your
program? Which issues are school-level issues and which ones are district-level issues?
Garren – It’s tough to balance working with kids and academic time. I have to work with the
teachers to find that balance. I have to keep positive relationships with the staff for the benefit of
the kids. At the district level, the biggest challenges are funding for resources and having
someone in charge of counseling who doesn’t understand school counseling or what we are
supposed to do.
Blakely – The biggest challenge is that I am required to do so many non-counselor duties. I am
trying to diplomatically educate and advocate for the priorities and positive effects of the
counseling program. A big problem is that the head of counseling has no history or background
in counseling. We don’t have an advocate. The head of counseling told the principal the
counselor should be handling all of these duties.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 52
Hurd – At the district level, the lack of counseling experience is a big problem. She literally has
no idea! At the school level, the school has gotten too large (739). We need another counselor.
Auten – At the school level it’s their program management skills. At the district level it’s that
the head of the program doesn’t know anything about the program.
9. Discuss how you implement the NC Standards within your school counseling program.
Garren – I match them to what I do with the kids – classroom guidance, individual and group
counseling, etc.
Blakely – They are guidelines that I aspire to, but my hands are completely tied. The 80/20 idea
is completely reversed. I have 3 evaluations throughout the year, and the principal is completely
understanding about the realities of the situation. I have been very honest with the principal
about the challenges.
Hurd – I implement the standard through individual delivery. We do very few group activities.
We just do what needs to be done.
Auten – I do the evaluations. All of them are conscientious about following the standards.
Realistically, you can’t focus as much time on some standards as on others. You have to rate
their importance and adjust accordingly. You have to find a happy medium between following
the standards and doing your job.
10. Please describe your perception of the relationship between you (the school counselor) and
your administrators.
Garren – We have a collaborative relationship for the benefit of the kids. We share ideas that
will help everyone. We work on scheduling for better delivery of services.
Blakely – At this school, they are very understanding and supportive, but with some of the
bigger changes that need to be made, their hands are tied.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 53
Hurd – On paper, we all do fine, but we know where not to go with the principal. He likes us,
be we know we can get on his nerves. We have to use a lot of diplomacy.
Auten –My relationship with the counselors is fantastic! We talk every day, work hand in hand,
if there is an issue I expect them to say something. The principal doesn’t really communicate
with them unless he needs something immediately. The counselors get frustrated with his lack of
communication.
11. Please describe how you believe the relationship between the school counselor and the
administration should be? Are there changes that need to occur on the administrative level to
improve your ability to manage your program?
Garren – The relationship should be collaborative. Principals should have training so they
understand the job of the school counselor.
Blakely – It should be collaborative. I have felt less supported at other schools. I have had
major ethical issues before to the point that I couldn’t work there anymore. Administration
needs to be really educated about what counselors are supposed to do.
Hurd – You have to work hard to make them aware of the things you have to do.
Administration is not always on top of offerings and opportunities. It’s a journey.
Auten – There needs to be communication and respect.
12. Management is one of the four major components of the ASCA National Model. Planning,
design, implementation, evaluation, and enhancement are major parts of management for
comprehensive school counseling programs. Can you tell me how you are able to include
management (including planning, design, implementation, evaluation, and enhancement)?
Garren – I do a pre-counseling and post-counseling assessment. I do a comprehensive school
survey for students and staff (needs assessment).
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 54
Blakely – More needs assessments, communication, share an outline of the program with
staff/team through regular meetings, goals for program shared with administration, pre-test/post-
test feedback.
Hurd – We get together at the start of the year. We know the time frame, and plan together for
the year.
Auten – Without management, the program will flop. There’s stuff you have to do to make the
program work. You have to see the big picture. Planning involves scheduling, registration,
classroom guidance. We don’t spend a ton of time on this unless something needs to change.
13. What are the challenges you face with regards to management?
Garren – TIME (for everything)
Blakely – Time for regular meetings, time in general
Hurd – Mainly, not getting bogged down by the day to day. Checking to make sure you’re
doing all that you’re supposed to do.
Auten – None, really.
14. Can you tell me which human service organizations your school has a relationship with and
what role the organizations play in the school counseling program?
Garren – We work with a variety of organizations to help the kids – DSS, Family Preservation,
Mental Health organizations, area churches, Fletcher Area Business Associates (FABA)
Blakely – Mediation Center, Access Family Services and Family Preservation (mental health),
Mobile Crisis, Manna Food Bank, Salvation Army, HELP, Healing Place, Hospice
Hurd – HELP (homeless), Kiwanis/Kiwanettes (Backpacks), school nurse/health department,
DSS (not a good relationship), school resource officer (suicide prevention), Storehouse (getting
food for kids), Michael Johnson (behavioral health)
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 55
Auten – One of our counselors came from Mainstay (domestic violence shelter), so she has lots
of contacts. We work with churches, community agencies, Family Preservation, Adolescent
Parenting Program (APP), Children and Family Resource Center (CFRC), Pisgah Legal,
Storehouse, Mainstay, IAM, Blue Ridge Health Center
15. How did you make the connections to the human service organizations to create the
relationships?
Garren – I have spoken at churches and businesses. I network. Some connections have been
made through outreach and some through need.
Blakely – I made sure I had a good resource list when I started. I introduced myself to some,
others I have called as needed.
Hurd – Michael reached out. Luckily, several are available through the schools. We reached
out to the others.
Auten – A variety of ways/networking. When we call, the agencies are right on it. The district
supervisor organized a non-profit fair, but it wasn’t really targeted to groups that help our
students.
16. What do you feel is the importance of having relationships with the human service
organizations for the success of your program and the success of your students?
Garren – Working together for the good of students.
Blakely – This is extremely important! This was drilled in to me during training – “recognize
your limits and make referrals”. You need relationships for an effective program.
Hurd – They provide valuable information/support that we can’t always provide. Having law
enforcement on campus is great – cut and dry. They bring their expertise and their time!
Auten – These resources are very important – they help our students both in and out of school.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 56
17. The ASCA National Model Competencies tell us that a school counselor (III-B-4a.) “Creates
a system support planning document addressing school counselor’s responsibilities for
professional development, consultation and collaboration and program management” (American
School Counselor Association, 2012, p. 5). Can you tell me how this works within your
program?
Garren – ASCA yearly plan – surveys and data from year before, pull ideas together and create
plan for year.
Blakely – It doesn’t happen. I use the evaluation tool as an outline/guideline for an ideal
program. PDP updated annually – turned in at beginning of year, then checked mid-year, and an
end of year evaluation.
Hurd – No document, but we do it.
Auten – We host monthly professional development meetings – try to bring someone in.
Collaboration – counselors have done a great job collaborating so everyone will be on the same
page. They started Monday morning meetings at 8:30 each Monday to make everyone in the
counseling office aware of what was going on. Since then, program management has gotten
distinctly better.
18. ASCA Model I-A-6. States “collaborations with stakeholders such as parents and guardians,
teachers, administrators and community leaders to create learning environments that promote
educational equity and success for every student” (American School Counselor Association,
2012, p. 2). Can you elaborate on how you would build and use these relationships within your
program assessment and implementation of changes?
Garren – Parent surveys, teacher surveys (Google docs, Survey Monkey), Needs Assessment
(drives program with data)
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 57
Blakely – I establish a positive relationship with the stakeholders. I do a needs assessment, I
follow up on the success of the program. I keep an open mind for
suggestions/concerns/questions.
Hurd – We see parents and teachers all day. We share needed information. If kids need help,
they ask. We help file FAFSA’s. People are just comfortable coming in to see us. We are
driven by talking to kids and knowing their goals. Parents are comfortable too.
Auten – We have info nights for parents/guardians (bullying and internet safety, for example).
Parent involvement is tough – don’t have good turnout. We do have good turnout for financial
aid/college nights, though. Counselors advocate with all stakeholders to make sure kids are
getting what they need.
19. I-B-1e. “Describes the benefits of a comprehensive school counseling program for all
stakeholders, including students, parents, teachers, administrators, school boards, department of
education, school counselors, counselor educators, community stakeholders and business
leaders” (American School Counselor Association, 2012, p. 2). Can you tell me how you as a
school counselor or administrator communicate your program to the various groups listed above?
Garren – Talks in the community, present plan for year to administrators, teachers (ask for
feedback and communicate plans), send home parent signups for groups, teacher referrals for
groups, presentations to school board
Blakely – I outline the program in teacher team meetings, staff meetings, and with the PTO.
Hurd – We usually send letters to parents explaining about the alphabetical split and our contact
information. Teachers know because we talk to them. The principal is a micromanager. He
knows what everyone is doing.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 58
Auten – We put our regular school messenger/phone alerts. Teacher websites are updated often.
We use the marquis outside to share information about upcoming events. We invite community
members in for senior projects, plays, sporting events to promote our students to the community.
20. The ASCA National Model gives us four areas to work within as we implement a
comprehensive guidance program; the foundation, delivering the program, managing the
program and holding the program accountable. Do you use this method within your current
program? Did you develop it for your school, or was it already set up when you arrived?
Garren – Yes use the method. No, it wasn’t here when I arrived, but I’ve been here a long time.
Things have completely changed. It takes so much time, time that we don’t have, to collect data
and document. There are too many kids (489) for me to do it easily.
Blakely – I try to reinforce guidelines to the administration to prioritize student needs. I got
nothing when I came here. The previous counselor was changing careers. I am working toward
using this more next year. I aspire to it!
Hurd – It’s not formally laid out, but all parts are addressed. No oversight, per se. Annabelle
came in 2002 and Dan in 2004. They changed to structure to ALPHA from grade level. We
changed the number of visits per student (mandatory) from 1 to 2. We tweak it as we go along to
better support the students.
Auten – The National Model holds the program accountable. Without one component the others
don’t work. Counselors know the expectations. They are really only checked during the
evaluations.
21. Gysbers and Henderson give us a ten year plan that has year one working with assessing the
current program and deciding what you would like to change. Have you done this type of
assessment and how did you decide what changes you would like to make?
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 59
Garren – No, I have never done that. It’s always a work in progress because expectations
change. The new evaluation tool has really affected things. I have done surveys, but I have
never used a formal tool.
Blakely – Not formally, but in process. I would like to do an official assessment. I have done a
lot of looking at the guidelines, highlighting, and meeting with the principal. I always err on the
side of safety for the students first, then helping them be successful in school. I have already cut
out some things the former counselor did.
Hurd – We have never done a formal program assessment. Our program is somewhat random,
but it’s effective. We desperately need another counselor.
Auten – Yes, but unfortunately although we would all like to see our counselors doing more
counseling. With mental health issues on the rise in the schools there is so much more that needs
to be done that actual counseling does not get as much attention as needed.
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 60
Appendix E
Interview transcript – Sarah Emily Curtis
1. What is the program model currently in use in your school counseling program? To your
knowledge, is this program in place throughout the school district?
B - No specific model is in place. The program is based around the preferences of the
administrator.
L - "My program is based on the idea of the ASCA model, but not strictly aligned."
D - No specific model to my knowledge.
2. In what ways does the K-12 counseling program collaborate? (If prompting is needed,
transitions are one area in which collaboration occurs…)
B & L - County-wide meetings to improve vertical alignment. These meetings have been
helpful and encouraging at the district level.
D - The school counselor is a liaison for teachers and administrators. The school
counselor is a stopping point, or mid-point, before disciplinary action from
administration.
3. In what program enhancement models or activities is your school counseling program
currently engaged? (School or district-wide Peer Helping, for example…)
B- PBIS at Boonville Elementary
L - PBIS at West Yadkin Elementary
D - The "Lunch Bunch" small groups are good for our students.
4. In a school setting, a crisis might be anything from the death of a student or teacher, a
natural disaster, such as a fire or tornado, to a threat to students and staff, such as those
involving weapons or the taking of hostages. What crisis management plans or models
COUNSELORS IN THE "REAL" WORLD 61
does your school or the school districts have in place to address these potential issues? Is
there a crisis management team?
B & L - The County published and provided an updated Crisis Management Flipchart
that is available to all faculty members. School counselors are part of school-level crisis
management teams. Bradley is split position, so he is not a lead member of the crisis
management teams.
D - SMS has a crisis team that consists of the AP (Dawn), the SRO (Officer JJ
Robinson), the school nurse (Lynda Carter), the school counselor (Emily Curtis), any
faculty members holding a current CDL (bus license), and select classroom teachers.
This information is kept in an orange binder at the front desk in the lobby. The crisis
plan is part of the ongoing "school improvement plan" that is reviewed three times a year,
every year. The flipchart that outlines the district's plan for crises is part of our crisis
management plan.
5. Please describe some of your duties and responsibilities, outside of classroom lessons,
small group counseling, and individual counseling.
L - Asked for am car duty - "Morning car line allows me to check in with students and
parents at the beginning of the day. If any students are having a hard morning or have
started the day off badly, I can catch this early and be proactive in these issues. This also
helps me connect with parents". Lisa is also part of the PBIS and SWAT (School-wide
Assessment Team) committees
B- am car duty at Jonesville Elementary
D - School counselors are expected to participate in fair share duties which may include,
but are not limited to, car duty, bus duty, hall duty, lunch duty, etc.
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6. Which of these duties do you consider "non-counselor" duties? What percentage of an
average school day is dedicated to performing "non-counselor" duties?
B & L - fair share duties, such as car line are not counselor-specific duties but can
maximize counselor connections with students and parents
D - Fair share duties
7. Discuss your philosophy of program management, in regard to your school counseling
program.
B & L - organization is key
L - use of calendars to organize daily, weekly, and monthly schedule and communicate
with faculty members, any time that is not scheduled for classes is time for individual and
group counseling, interventions, etc.
B - at Jonesville, due to limited time there and tight schedule - "more reactionary than
proactive"
D - "The role of the school counselor is to be approachable by students and faculty. The
school counselor should function as a mediator at school, in the community, and for
parents/guardians. School counselors should implement consistent routines for
counseling, including groups."
8. What are some of the challenges, or issues, that you deal with as you try to manage your
program? Which issues are school-level issues and which ones are district-level issues?
B & L - both agreed that more hours in the day and more counselors on staff would make
a great deal of positive difference -- improved district-level support and encouragement,
therefore issues and concerns are more appropriately addressed (new district-level
director - she's highly motivated and organized)
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B - his split position makes it difficult to meet the needs of all students, he feels that he is
always "bouncing between schools" and he feels "disconnected from the school
community in each school"
L - feels supported at the school and district level, but needs more time or more
counseling personnel
D - Time, resources (community support and items/stuff needed to carry out lessons and
responsibilities). The split-position is difficult in that the counselor is not 100% available
to the staff and students of SMS.
9. Discuss how you implement the NC Standards within your school counseling program.
B & L - both recognize and use the NC standards, however they are broad and loosely
applied, they are included as part of the old NC evaluation system and process
D - The standards are directly linked to the evaluation process
10. Please describe your perception of the relationship between you (the school counselor)
and your administrators.
B & L - both feel that they are part of a team, they feel supported and connected to the
administrators in their schools, collaboration is good and they feel in the loop, both say "I
am allowed to manage my program. I feel trusted to make decisions for the program and
carry them out."
D - The school counselor is in a position to diffuse situations before they become a matter
of discipline. The school counselor can also be a buffer with administration to prevent
the need for disciplinary action. The administration and the school counselor should have
an open line of communication where everyone shares thoughts, observations, and
concerns.
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11. Please describe how you believe the relationship between the school counselor and the
administration should be? Are there changes that need to occur on the administrative
level to improve your ability to manage your program?
B & L - addressed in question 10
D- Having a full-time school counselor at SMS
12. Management is one of the four major components of the ASCA National Model.
Planning, design, implementation, evaluation, and enhancement are major parts of
management for comprehensive school counseling programs. Can you tell me how you
are able to include management (including planning, design, implementation, evaluation,
and enhancement)?
B & L - calendars are the main source of management, adjustments can be made as
necessary
D- There is currently no specific system of management, partly due to the split position
and party due to lack of long-term experience of the school counselor.
13. What are the challenges you face with regards to management?
B & L - both counselors say the key to improving management would be more time
and/or personnel to carry out all aspects of a school counseling program
D - Issues include - time, need for more community outreach and knowledge, more
personnel (counselor needs to be more visible to all stakeholders)
14. Can you tell me which human service organizations your school has a relationship with
and what role the organizations play in the school counseling program?
B & L - both access county human services organizations such as DSS and the Domestic
Violence office, law enforcement
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D - Our school has partnerships with DSS, Juvenile Justice, the Sheriff's dept (including
school resource officer and anti-bullying programs), Compassion Care (for human
growth and development), mobile crisis through Partners Behavioral Health, local private
counseling agencies, local churches provide school supplies. There is a desire to have
more community involvement.
15. How did you make the connections to the human service organizations to create the
relationships?
B & L - both are inherently involved in education
D - through phone calls (both ways), as needs arise, personal contacts
16. What do you feel is the importance of having relationships with the human service
organizations for the success of your program and the success of your students?
B & L -"help meet extended needs of students outside of what is manageable and
appropriate through the school counseling program"
D - "outside agencies are necessary because it is impossible to meet all every need in the
educational environment"
17. The ASCA National Model Competencies tell us that a school counselor (III-B-4a.)
“Creates a system support planning document addressing school counselor’s
responsibilities for professional development, consultation and collaboration and program
management” (American School Counselor Association, 2012, p. 5). Can you tell me
how this works within your program?
B & L - work in collaboration with bilingual services, county offerings such as "in the
know" sessions, and NCSCA offerings
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D - The job description provided by NCDPI, county and state mandated PDPs and
evaluations, county level professional development offerings and county level goals,
504/SWAT (interventions) to add to the academic domains
18. ASCA Model I-A-6. States “collaborations with stakeholders such as parents and
guardians, teachers, administrators and community leaders to create learning
environments that promote educational equity and success for every student” (American
School Counselor Association, 2012, p. 2). Can you elaborate on how you would build
and use these relationships within your program assessment and implementation of
changes?
L - PTO meetings, websites, teacher sites, newsletter column, just be visible
B - website and general visibility
D - the kids having knowledge of counseling services helps them be more open and
allows for counseling proactivity before discipline
19. I-B-1e. “Describes the benefits of a comprehensive school counseling program for all
stakeholders, including students, parents, teachers, administrators, school boards,
department of education, school counselors, counselor educators, community
stakeholders and business leaders” (American School Counselor Association, 2012, p. 2).
Can you tell me how you as a school counselor or administrator communicate your
program to the various groups listed above?
Same as responses to 18
D- an area of improvement for our program would be more visibility and outreach to
members of our school community (ex. website, brochure, etc)
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20. The ASCA National Model gives us four areas to work within as we implement a
comprehensive guidance program; the foundation, delivering the program, managing the
program and holding the program accountable. Do you use this method within your
current program? Did you develop it for your school, or was it already set up when you
arrived?
B & L - Administrators share their expectations, counselors meet those; delivery is
inherent in the program through individual and group counseling sessions; management
is focused around the calendar system; accountability is addressed through the new NC
Evaluation Instrument
D - "The ASCA model is not currently in place at SMS. Implementation is expected to
begin soon."
21. Gysbers and Henderson give us a ten year plan that has year one working with assessing
the current program and deciding what you would like to change. Have you done this
type of assessment and how did you decide what changes you would like to make?
B - annual goals and themes, often linked to any goals and themes of the school,
adjustments can and should be made
L - annual goals and themes, often linked to the school, including 7 Habits of Happy Kids
and 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teens, with activities, themes, and goals devised
through this content
D - goals for the future counseling program would be to implement a more cohesive
referral process, peer mediation, more anti-bullying programs, continue and grow the
group counseling program, be more accessible to students and faculty (full-time position
at only 1 school would assist in that)
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Bradley Shore - B.S. in Psychology, M.A. in Community Counseling with School
Counseling add-on, all from ASU- 19 years experience. Works at Boonville Elementary
and Jonesville Elementary with both schools totally around 650 students.
Lisa Wagoner - credentials in paper from first spring semester. Works at West Yadkin
Elementary with a total of approx. 600 students.
Dawn Huggins - AP at Starmount Middle (350 students) - B.S. in Elementary Ed, M.A.
in Middle Grades English Language Arts, M.A. in School Administration, Certificate in
Curriculum Assistance - 21 years experience.