CONSTITUTION OF KENYA REVIEW COMMISSION

(CKRC)

Verbatim Report

DISSEMINATION OF REPORT AND DRAFT BILL MUKURWEINICONSTITUENCY HELD AT TAC HALL MUKURWEINI

ON

Tuesday 8th October 2002

DISSEMINATION OF REPORT & DRAFT BILL, MUKURWEINI CONSTITUENCY TAC HALL ONTUESDAY, 8TH OCTOBER 2002

Present:

Com. Dr. Githu Muigai

Secretariat Staff:-

- Anne Wairimu Miki - Asst. Program Officer - Grace Gitu - Verbatim Recorder - Mugo Nyumu - District Co-ordinator

The meeting started at 10.30 a.m. with a prayer.

Nyumu (District Co-ordinator): Andu a Mukurweini ni ndamugethia muriega. Nitukwambiriria mucemanio witu, na

tukwambiriria na mahoya ni Mutungatiri Julius Mwangi.

Julius Mwangi: Ni tukuhoya, korwo twaruta tukubia, na mbere ya kuhoya ndimuririkanie ati tukite haha kurumaniriria, no uria

twokite mweri wa kana, mweri mirongo iri na ithatu na mirongo iri na inya. Riria twaheanire maoni maitu kuri Commission. Na

riu umuthi, moigite moka guturehere nigetha tuigue uria twoigire. Menya undu uyu ni undu wa bata muno bururi-ini witu, niundu

Katiba ni maisha ni muturire. Na tondu niinyui kana niithue twoigire ni tukwenda ichenjio tugie ningi njeru ni twagiriirwo ni kuhe

uhoro ucio gitio niundu ni maisha. Ona ti maitu muno, ta maciana na njiarwa iria iri thutha witu. Rekei turugame tuhoe.

Prayer: Mwathani Ngai Ithe witu mwene hinya wothe we mumbi wa iguru na thi. Ni twainamia mothiu maitu ruciini ruru.

Nitukuhera mehia ma methamba yothe iria tungikorwo tukuhitiirie. Nagwo muthenya uyu ni tukuunyita ari muthenya wa bata

muno, kurumanirira na riria twarehire maoni maitu moria tukwenda Katiba ino ihane. Na riu uhoro wa kureha Commission ya

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Ghai guku Mukurweini, ni getha maturehere draft. Ni tukumimuakira na ngatho, niundu no tuonete magathitine na tikuigua uhoro

ucio ukenetie ngoro citu muno, Mwathani. Ni turakuhoya nigetha uhoro uyu riria uri tuika wa kuhituka Ngai Ithe witu tutikae

gukeona ithui, no tukaririkana uria wa tukurire ukomboini ihinda ria keri. Riu Mwathani itikira guikarania hamwe na ithui.

Thengiu ni kureha Commissioners aitu, kumamenyerera njiraini. Ona ithuothe aria tukite ona angi mari njiraini magiuka ni

twahoya ngwataniro imwe thiini wo uhoro uyu. Utuhe wohoku wa kuaria kuria tungihota, utuhe wohoku wa kuria ciuria kuria

twagirirwo ni kuaria. No undu wothe muru kana wagwikanirira ni Ithe witu ndugitikiri ukorwo giikaroini giki. Macio twahoya

riitwaini ria Kristu Jesu Mwathani witu. Amen.

Nyumu: Ni wega muno Mutungatiri Julius Maina. Ngwiciria ni wega tukiambiriria twambe tumenyane. Umuthi twina ageni

aitu kuma Nairobi, na twina ngatho muno ni tondu ni makinyire mbere ona ringi andu aitu matari maroka. Ni mui ni

twatangathite makanithaini na nginya maturaini mothe, andu moke umuthi. Na ni wega niundu wa inyui makinyire na aria angi

mari o njira. Umuthi twina andu aria marumbuyagia maundu ma Katiba thiini wa Mukurweini division. Na ningwambiriria na

kumeta haha nigetha me introduce nigetha tumamenye. Andu a Mukurweini Constitutional Committee tafadhali ukai haha.

Nii muranyona ndugamite haha, ninie ngoragwo ndugamiriire uhoro wa Katiba thiini wa Nyeri district. Na aya nio tuteithanagia

nao thiini wa Mukurweini division. Nii ritwa riakwa ni Johnson Nyumu Mugo. Aingi anyu nituyaini nao na niwega ni tondu ni

mukire. Chairman..

Mutahi: Ritwa riakwa njitagwo James Mutahi, ninii Chairman wa uhoro wa Katiba guku Murweini. Na gwitu na Gatura. Ni

wega.

Maina: Nii nanii njitagwo Councillor Titus Maina ninii Secretary wa Committee ino na nyumite Gikondi.

Karuoya: Nii nanii njitagwo Erustus Karuoya na nyumete Thanu. Ndi mumember wa Constitution ino.

Wanjau: Haritwa ni James Kimemia wa Wanjau na nyumite Giathugu location. Ni nii Vice Secretary wa Committee ino.

Mwangi: Njitagwo Mutungatiri Julius Maina wa Mwangi. Na ndimuhonoku na nyumite Rutume location.

Lydia Maina: Njitatwo Lydia Njoki wa Maina kuma Gakindu location ndimuhonoku ndi wa Committee ino.

L. Kimaru: Njitagwo Leah Wambui wa Kimaru. Kuuma Githii location ninii Vice Chairperson.

E. Wambui: Njitagwo Esther Wambui kuma Gikondi. Na ndi mumember wa committee ino. Na ndimuhonoku.

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Nyumu: Ni wega andu a Committee. Kuri andu angi ngwenda kumumenyithia tutanagweta Commissioner aitu a kuma Nairobi.

Na twina mutumia urio haria. Ni nguthii hari we nigetha nake igwete.

Nyathogora: Njitagwo Margaret Nyathoroga. Ndi vice chairperson wa Nyeri town Constituency Committee iyo, na makiria

moguo Jesu na Mwathani na muhonokia wa ngoro yakwa. Na nii ndira cagurirwo ndi representative district ino ya Nyeri,

kumurugamirira kuria National Conference. Na ndina ngatho ni inyui niundu mahoya manyu na kwenda kwanyu ni

kuramuhotithirie na kurahotithia njagurwo. Thank you very much.

Nyumu: Asante sana. Muthuri uyu murona aikarite haha, niwe Commissioner with umuthi. Etagwo Doctor Commissioner

Githu Muigai niyo aria twanengerire maoni maitu, nigetha mandike Katiba na njui umuthi nia kumwariria muno. Hena aria

mokete guteithania, tondu ndeto ici ciothe nonginya inyitwo ciandikwo na inyitwo na njira njega tondu gutiri kiugo ona kimwe

tungienda kiure. Twina magukite kuma Nairobi a ku record.

G. Gitu: Njitagwo Grace Gitu.

Nyumu: Egwitwo Grace Gitu. Twinonge haha uria urandika witagwo Wairimu Miki. Niyo magukorwo magituteithirira kunyita

maundu maya mothe. Ngwiciragia (inaudible) mwigwite o mundu ona ringi itangimurehera kameme. Kana hihi inyui mutikuhota

kwanirira?

Munga: Nii Njitagwo James Nyaga wa Munga na nyumite Gakindu location na ndugamiriire organisation ya Kenya Retired

Officers.

Kanyi: Njitagwo John Kariuki wa Kanyi ndi murutani. Njukite na interest, individual

Kariuki: Haritwa riakwa ni Kanju Menja Kariuki wa kanitha wa Salvation Army Murweini

Rev Kariuki: Ritwa ni Reverend Richmond Macharia Kariuki njukite niundu wa kanitha wa PCEA.

Kabata: Ritwa njitagwo David Kariuki Kabata nyumite Gakindu, ndi farmer, na njukite niundu ona nondari guku hingo iyo

Constitution ya hitukagio.

N. Kimaru: Na nii njitagwo Ndonga wa Kimaru na nyumite kuria Gikondi. Ndi retired teacher.

Thongoro: James Muraya wa Thongoro kuma kuria Tanu location. Individual.

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Muraguri: David Muraguri kuma Kano location. Interest.

Rev. Nduati: Nanii njitagwo Mutungatiri Simon Nduati. Njukite ku represent kanitha wa Baptist.

Ngumo: Njitagwo Nicodemus Gachanja Ngumo. Nyumite uguku Muhito ohaha itura riri.

Wambugu: Njitagwo Wambugu JB, njukite ndugamiriire kanitha wa Catholic from Gikondi location.

Muturi: Njitagwo Julius Muturi kuma Garu location, Karaba sublocation. Njukite ta mundu wa Karaba sublocation.

Thuita: Gabriel Kambo Thuita, njukite ndimurugamiriri wa Constitution kanitha wa Catholic.

Chege: Njitagwo Jackson Chege, kuma Ithanu sublocation. Njukite ndimurimi.

Mbugi: Njitagwo Peterson Mbugi kuma Igana sublocation ndugamiriire kiama.

Munyi: Njitagwo Munyi Jackson, kuma guku Murweini town.

Maina: Nii njitagwo Francis Maina, onanii kuma guku town.

Kariuiki: Njitagwo JB Kariuki, kuma Gatura.

J. Kariuki: Joseph Kariuki, kuma Gatura ndi vice chairman wa DP.

Wangara: Maritwa makwa ni Mrs Njeri Wangara. Ngoragwo ngiruirira rights ya ciana guku division ya Mukurweini. Niwega.

Maguaini: Njitagwo Joseph Githinji Maguaini. Nii ngoragwo ngitwarithania no uhoro wa thayu na waragania uria twitaga

Justice and Peace na kuria kanitha wa Kimondo Catholic Parish, kuma Githu location.

Kibui: Haritwa njitagwo James wa Kibui na nii ngoragwo na Catholic Justice and Peace Commission, Kaheti Parish.

Kindura: Haritwa njitagwo Francis Kindura wa kuma kuria Gikobi. Ndi mwarimu. Njukite ni personal interest.

Mutahi: Njitagwo Elius Mutahi, nyumite Kyeni location.

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Kahinga: Njitagwo James Kahinga na nyumite Gatura.

Karenju: Njitagwo Simono Karenju na nyumite Gatura.

Muriithi: Njitagwo Samuel Muriithi, na nyumite Gatura.

Kariuki: James Kariuki, kuma Gatura.

Njumbi: Njitagwo Benson Njumbi, nyumite itura ria Mihuti. Njukite guku ni tondu wa rights ciakwa.

Muchuthia: Njitagwo Joshua Muchuthia Jeremiah kuma Ngamba sublocation Gitue location. I am a retired teacher.

Mwangi: Njitagwo John Mwangi wa Murage kuma Thanu location. Njukite niundu wa Karaba Catholic Church.

Githeri: Njitagwo Samuel Kariuki wa Githeri. Nyumite Muyu sublocation Kaheti.

Waithaka: Njitagwo Eliud Waithaka. Na nyumite Muyu sublocation.

Kimore: Njitagwo Kimore Linus, na nyumite Kiahungu. Njukite niundu wa interest.

Kimaita: Njitagwo Timothy Kagondi Kimaita na njukite niundu wa interests cia uhoro uyu.

Wanjohi: Njitagwo Jackson Muriithi Wanjohi kuma Ndiya sublocation, ndi Chairmn wa DP.

Kihonia: Ritwa riakwa ni Kara wa Kihonia. Ndimurimi kuma Giathuro location.

Mutua: Riatwa riakwa ni Kiambati wa Mutua nyingi. Njukite niundu wa national interests.

Gikoma: Riatwa ni David Gikoma kuma Gakindu location. Ndimurimi. Njukite nigetha njigue kana kuheana views.

Gitonga: Ritwa ni Francis Mwangi wa Gitonga na Ndimuhonoku. Nyumite Tambaya na kahinda gaka ninii Chairman wa

PCEA Tambaya.

Muthondu: Simon Muthondu kuma kuria Gatura ndoka niundu wa guthikiriria na ndimuhonoku.

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Kimaru: Njitagwo Kariuki wa Kimaru na gwitu ni Gatura.

Mwangi: Njitagwo Joseph Mwangi, na niuthui turoraga mutitu. Twoka guthiriria uhoro uria tuguthondeka bururi.

Waweru: Njitagwo Douglas Waweru. Nyumete maganjo. Njukite niundu wa national interest.

Nyambura: Njitagwo Gladys Nyambura na gwitu ni Gatura sublocation.

Njitagwo Hannah wa Kanyi. Nyumite Kaheti.

Wamuyu: Njitagwo Joyce Wamuyu kuma (inaudible)

Kariuki: Njitagwo James Kariuki, na nyumite Muhita.

Gachimo: Njitagwo Francis Gachimo na nyumite Gikondi, chairman wa DP.

Koigi: Njitagwo Timothy Koigi na nanii executive officer wa Kanu. Mukurweini Branch. Njoke, ndirikitie. Ningenete niundu

proposal iria ndarehire ciothe iri thiini wa Katiba ya Ghai. Thank you very much.

Gakonya: Njitagwo Ndiritu wa Gakonya. Ndi a retired teacher. Ndi umwe wa aria mathomithanagia Constitition-ini ino.

Thank you.

Njitagwo Simon Mahinda nyumite itura ritagwo Giathuro location.

Ndambi: Njitagwo Charles Ndambi kuma Karati.

Keba: Njitagwo Joseph Keba. Kuma Gatura

Wachira: David Wachira kuma Ningai.

Wanjahi: Nii nanii njitagwo Lawrence Wanjohi na ndi Police (inaudible)

Nyumu: Niwega muno tondu nindaigua gutiri kona ona imwe ya Mukurweini gutoimite mundu na ninjui acio angi mari o thutha

magiuka. Na tondu riu twina quorum, nitukwenda twambiririe. Naninjui mwina ihoto muno niundu wa githomo. Ni ndaiguwa

athuri aingi makiuga ati uria moigire noguo monire ku? Na kuri angi maratwara propaganda makauga ati nyamu ino

ndiandikiriwo ni wananchi. Na riu ni twaigua testimony yanyu. Na nituguthii tukimenyaga ndeto icio na ninjui ni munyoteire

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muno.

Ni ngu-invite Commissioner witu uria urikwo umuthi tumunengere programme, nigetha atutaririe umuthi ni muthenya wake.

Asanteni sana.

Dr. Githu Muigai: Muri ega andu a Mukurweini

Response: Turiega.

Dr. Githu Muigai: Ona ithui turiega muno, na nitukenete muno niguka guku kwanyu na mugatu amukira wega. Mukwenda

twarie na ruga iriku. No twarie na Gikuyu, no twarie na Kiswahili, no twarie na Githungu na no utukanie ciothe. Mukwenda

tuhuthire iriku? Omundu akaria iria akwenda. Nonii mukwenda njarie iriku?

Response: Na Gikuyu.

Dr. Githu Muigai: Niugwo. Hau ni twauma riu.

Undu wa keri ni ngwenda kumuririkania gitumi kiria… na mundu wina thimu niundu wa kwenda kwanyu ahorie. Tondu nira

nyitana na machini ya muthuri uria wi haria. Na niho ringi uraigua hahitana.

Ngwendaga kumuririkania ati, gitumi kiria gitumite tuke ni tondu ni twamuiriire riria twokite guku kumuria maundu maria

mungienda machenjio thiini wa Katiba. Tukimuira ni tugacoka guku riria tugacenjia nigetha tumuonie report iria turandikire, na

nigetha tumuonie Katiba iria njeru turenda kuhitukia. Nanigetha tumuhe mweke inyui murore kana wira uria mwa tuheire ni

turutite. Kana kwina maundu tutigite mwa twirire twikire. Kana kwina maundu mangi twikirite mutatwirire twikire. Na tondu

wira uyu nduri urathira, he mucemani ungi ugokorwo kuria Nairobi mweri uyu uguka guthira, na niguo wetagwo National

Conference, niingeanda gutuma and aria mathuritwo guku itura rianyu no mukimatume na kumera mukwenda undu muna

ugathondekwo kana wongererwo weherio kana ugithondekwo na njira iyo. Nikio tugiukite umuthi, nigetha tumuonie report ino.

Ngwiciria ni mumionete. Ino niyo twandikire kuringana na maundu maria mwatwirire mothe, na kuringana na ciuria iria

twamuhete, nimuguciririkana.

Hari kabuku gaka. Kabuku gaka niko koragia ciuria, gakoria hau mungienda atia, na atia. Na turumiriire kabuku kau niguo

turandikire report. Ino report niya kuga undu muna. Undu wigie report, undu wigie cukuru, no undu wigie thibitari. Andu

twamoria moigire ona no ona. Riria turarikirie kwandika iyo, niguo turari kiriirie ni ino, na niyo mwina copy yao ngathitini. Ni

ino niyo Katiba iria njeru. Ni ngwenda kumuririkania ati ti maundu mothe mangikirwo Katiba-ini. He maundu maingi muno

mwaugire mega, maritu, mabata, no matingi kinya Katibaini tondu ni mui Katiba ikagirwo maundu maria magutongoria umuthi

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na rucio no oke, onginya njiarwa na njiarwa. No he kuria kungi twikagira maundu maria mangi mangicenjio. Na

tungimathondeka umuthi rucio twone ti mega tucenjie, na nicio twitaga laws of Kenya. Na kwoguo he maundu maingi mukwaga

haha na mutiagiriire kumaka, tondu ona ukorwo matiri haha, me laws of Kenya iria turaugire tuguthondeka nigetha itwarane na

ki? Itwarane na Katiba.

Tariu ingemuhe kwa muhiano, undu umwe munene mwa twirire muno, ni ati muri arimi. Indo cia murimi, kana ni cia kahua, kana

ni cia macani, kana ni cia ng’ombe kana nicia kiria kingi, itira mukinyira kuringana no uria kwagiriire. Riu uhoro ucio no

tuhutiriirie haha thiini wa Katiba na kuheana kionereria kuringana no uria thirikari ya giriire gwika. No tugacoka tugathii laws of

Kenya ciothe cia macani, cia kahaua, cia iria, cia kiria kingi, tugathondeka system thiini ni getha andu aria marugamiriire maundu

mau, mageka maundu kuringana na watho uria wiho.

Kwoguo ndikwenda mumake muno, mundu arora, iundu muna ndaugire nik kigiritie undu ucio ukorwo ho. Ucio ni muti wa

mbere. Muti wa keri mutikariganirwo ati, Kenya ni bururi wa andu aingi na wa nduriri nyingi, na he maundu guku kwanyu na

kuria kungi andu monaga mema bata, na mema kihoto, no kundu kungi, mationekaga me ma kihoto. Tondu andu mari o mitugo

yao, na mari o miikarire yao, na mari uria monaga magiriire guikara.

Muheani wa mabuku anga ni ugocoka na thutha, uheanire haria murangoini ni getha tuhote guthii na mbere. Ta riu kwa

muhianori, riria twokire guku ni mwa twirire he undu umwe uthumburite andu aguku, kwa muhiano, ta njohi iria irugagwo guku

maturaini, na rimwe ni irathii ikoraga andu, ringi igathii igate andu maitho, ringi igathii, ikonjia andu. Na gwikundu kuingi muno

Kenya yothe twa thiururukire tukirwo, mutigatonyerere njohi itu iria tunyuaga, tondu kwina njohi ya itonga irugagwo na micuba,

no muthini nia giririo kunyuaga njohi yake. Kuria Githumo makiuga metikirio manyuage changa’aa. Na kuu Western., makiuga

metikirio manyuage busaa. Na kundu kungi kuingi. Na guku North Eastern makiuga miraa ndikanagirio kurio, na maundu ma

muthemba ucio.

Kwoguo, ungiona undu wee wonete uri wa bata muno, no uwage haha. Ni tondu ningwenda uririkane Katiba no nginya

yandikwo itukanitie andu othe. Riu haria turaiguire at ungigeria kuingirira kindu kia muthemba muna ni gikurehe thina,

turacokirie mahinya mau kuri thirikari ya district. Nigetha thirikari ya district, tariu guku gwitu yenda kunina njohi inine. Yenda

kunina mawaganu maria mangi ikaninira na guku district. Nao aria district yao maraigua ati ucio ni undu ungimatwara na

mbere, magathie na mbere naki….

Kwoguo ti maundu mothe mugukora haha, na nikio twakinya haria ngumutariria uria turagayanire mahinya mathirikari, ni

ukuona he mahinya mamwe turatigire thirikari nene na mahinya maria maingi turacokia mwena wa district. Tondu andu mara

twiraga, ona guku noguo mwatwirire, hari undu wigie security, undu wigie Police, andu maugaga turekerei guku, turore uria

tugothendeka security tondu andu aria aganu ni tumoi. Na mutuhe rutha athuri guku magie ma magoti mao, ma elders court,

nigetha andu aria aganu uhoro wao ukambiriria ku? Guku. Na nigetha uhoro wao tukarikiria uguku na maundu ma muthemba

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ucio.

Riu haria tukinyite ati, wira uyu wa kuandika Katiba twanjiriirie tukiuga, wena icunji ciigana? Inya.Gicunji kiambere kiambiriirie

riria twokite guku na tukinyitana na andu aria a matura maya, aria mateithirie guthomithia githomo kia muingi kiria gia kuga

Katiba ni ndu? Watho ni kii? Thirikari ithondekagwo ni ki? Ithondekagwo atia? Thirikari ya Mungeretha itiganite naki na ya

Muamerika? Ithui thirikari ciitu cia andu Airu ithondekagwo atia, na tene cia thondekagwo atia? Githi mutikuririkana hau? Hau

niho twitire civic education.

Tukiuma hau tugiuka hangi, na hau niho twokire tugithioruruka guku maturaini mothe, tukiuragia mutuhe maoni manyu, na

mutwire uria mungienda Katiba ithondekwo ni getha Katiba ya Kenya iture I watho uthondeketwo ni andu a Kenya kuringana

na maoni mao. Ukorwo turi andu a kigu ciana ciitu igathondeka hau tugukorwo tutigitie. No tukiuga tukwenda gwithondekera

ithui, angorwo ni tukuhitia tuhitie, na ndikareherwo mundu ungi atwire uria angiciria ingikwo. Na niguo turathiururukire Kenya

yothe handu ya ruma, na turathikiriria maoni manyu.

Itura riri rianyu, na nikio tukire, maoni manyu nimo maya, file ino yothe ni maundu maria mwoigire, muri andu a itura riri, na

tutikuinuka nayo, ni tukumitiga ni getha umundu wina kiuria ungienda kuria kana nima niandikirwo uria oigire, ni mukumiona

kuria ofisi itu na muthuri uyu urugamiriire maundu mau nia gukorwo inayo.

Undu wa gatagu ni uria ithui, twathire tugiikara thi riu, tukioya uria mwatwirire, tukioya uria twirirwo na andu aria angi,

tugitukania ciothe, tugicoka tukianjia kwandika report ino. Na tugicoka tukiandika Katiba ino. Ikinya ria muthia riu nirio

tukinyete, na ikinya riu ni ria guthii National Conference. Tondu ningwenda kumuririkania ati Commission ndiathurirwo nigetha

ithondeke, Katiba tondu hau rimwe ni turiganagirwo. Wira wa Commission, tiguthondeka Katiba. Ni kungania mawoni, na

thutha wa kungania mawoni, guthondeka report ya mawoni mau, na thutha ucio guthondeka bill, na nio ino, iria riu igacoka ineo

National Conference. Mwene guthondeka Katiba nu? Ni National Conference. Na riu twina mutumia uyu, uria tuthurite guku,

hari athuri angi meguka, aria tuthurite na nio magathii National Conference. Nigetha nikuo uhoro uyu ukariririo. Kwoguo

Commission onayo thutha wa guthikiriria maoni manyu, irutite mawoni. Riu igutumana National Conference na mawoni. Na

kuo nikuo ciira ugatuirwo. Muririkane National Conference igakorwo ya andu magana matandatu na kindu iguru. Na ni andu

othe ateti. MP othe ni magakorwo kuo, 210. Commission nigakorwo kuo, no wira wayo ni wakwandika na guteithia

Conference. Na o district o district, ni gitumite andu atatu.

Na acio atatu, umwe nonginya akorwo e mutumia. Nigacoka tukongerera andu a kanitha. Andu a kanitha ni matumanite andu

hakuhe mirongo iri na kenda, no makanitha magitukanite, makanitha maitu, muthigiti wa Ilsamu, na Hindu makanitha maitu na

aria angi othe.

Riu andu acio othe magana matandu ma mirongo itatu ne eri, tugacemania mweri mirongo iri na inyanya kundu gwitagwo Bomas

of Kenya. Nakuo nikuo ciira tugaciira. Na tukanyita Bill ino riu turehete, tuthii o kibungo, o kibungo, tukiaragiriria tukiugaga

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kana nitwaigwithania. Iria twaiguthinia tugeka atia? Iria yarema ikeherio. Na riu kuu nikuo gugoka andu taya mutumite,

mutumia uyu, na athuri aria angi mutumite. Niyo magoka moige, kana ni tukwenda kuongerera, kana nitukwenda kuruta, kana

nitukwenda kuhitukia uguo ikite atia? Ihana.

Riu muthia ri, ni ngwanjia haha. Haha ningumuhe kirira kia ndagika ikumi. Ndimwire turekire ona no ona, ni undu wa gitumi

kina na kina. No undu uria wabata muno uturehete umuthi, ni tuigue na inyui, tondu aingi ni muthomete ngathiti, angi anyu ni

mwithomeire report ino, angi anyu ni mwithomire mundu gwitwo draft. Nigetha naithui riu tumuthikiririe mutwire kana hari undu

mungienda wongererwo, kana urutwo, kana ni mwakenio ni wira witu, kana ni mukwenda mbeca cianyu cia muiri icoke, tondu

ni kura irorire. Riu ni inyui mukuga. No tutana kinya hau riki ndimuire hanini uhoro wa wira uria turatire no uria turatuire,

nigetha ona inyui mwainuka aria mukuinuka nigetha mworio mwatinda ku, ihi twatinda tukiheo uhoro wa Katiba iria njeru.

Mwerwo atia. Ni uru muno mundu angikiuga ihii ona ndiri undu ndiraririkana twerwo. Ndaigua ihana o iria ndatuire nayo.

Githi uguo ti uru. Kwoguo riki tuhe wira wa kwariria Katiba iria njeru ndagika ta ikumi, kana ikumi na ithano. Nigetha ithuothe

mundu akiunuka ri athii akiugaga, na nindamenya utiganu weno twinayo hari iria tutuire nayo.

Kindu kia mbere kiria turekire ri, ni turandikire Katibaini ino njeru, maundu turetire, metagwo na Githungu, preamble. Ni kuga

niundu wa kwonereria miikarire ya andu. Constitution itu iria ya tene ndiri undu ya gwetete. Ya hanite kandarathi ya kwendia

mugunda, okuga Kamau wa Njoroge nienderio uria ungi. No riu ino turaugire, nonginya ithui turi andu a Kenya, tutanaingira

thiini wa Katiba, ikamba kugweta kaa niuthii a, tumite ku? Turorete ku? Na tukwenda bururi witu ukorwo wi bururi uhana atia?

Na kindu kia mbere kiria kinene turandikire hau, ni kuga bururi wa Kenya wagirirwo gutura nginya tene na tene wi bururi umwe.

Tondu ni gutuiri andu aingi muno, maragia uhoro wo uria bururi wa Kenya ungitinangio utuwike mabururi maingi; na makiri

itumi ciao ciakuga uguo. Na thiini wa preamble turoigire, ithui tukwenda bururi witu uria uhana uture uguo we bururi umwe

utangigayanio.

Turacoka turouga, bata uria munene muno bururiini witu, ni thirikari na andu othe, magetha uria maguteithia mundu, family na

ituura, na ruriri rwitu. Na mungithoma hau preamble ni mukwona maundu mau mothe mandikitwo, uhoro wa democracy, uhoro

wa social justice at tuti kanatuike bururi andu magatonga na aria angi na mathinire, gukaga social justice. Social justice ni kuuga

ati no muhaka thirikari na aria mathana magaikara makiuragia kana bururi ucio ni ma andu othe, na andu othe ni andu othe, ni

marateithika kuringana na gukorwo mari andu a bururi ucio, na nigetha akurwo ni shukuru, ukorwo na mathibitari, ukorwo ni

indu iria ingi cia kuhithirwo igathondekwo undu andu othe ni megukorwo mari nacio.

Undu ungi wa keri turekirire na ndwari Constitution ya tene, ni turauigire ati Kenya, wathani uria munene wa Kenya, nduri andu

aria mathuritwo, uri na muthurani. Turandika turauga ati wathani wa Kenya nduri na aria tuthurite, matuikage niyo agutwira uria

tukwenda twike na ringi ni marathii, na noinyui matwarire tuthii tugirie uguo, na ningumwira uhoro ucio. Marathii makiongerera

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micaara, magathii ma kihe mbeca cia kugura nyumba, magathii makigaira migunda, magathii mageka maundu maria mangi.

Mwatwirire tuthii twandike ati, andu a Kenya niyo mathanaga Kenya na andu aria mathura mathane, matiagiriirwo gutwika, niyo

matwika anene gukira andu aria mama ndikite. Kundu kumwe ndathire muthuuri umwe oririe atiriri, ungiandika mundu gwaku

mugunda akarime ri, kwe hindi mugunda watwika wake? Niguo turandikire haha turauga the sovereignity of the people is

supreme. Andu a Kenya niyo mariathanaga uria mikwenda bururi wao uhane. Na turenda maundu meri na ningukinya hau.

Maundu matatu.

Undu wa mbere turauga Member wa Parliament twamuthura athii thiini wa Parliament athii akoma toro, tutigweterera githurano

githuranwo kingi, tukamwita, tukamwitia na marua gwi Speaker, agacoka na guku miciini ni getha arute wira ungi hihi arithii

mburi kana ng’ombe;; nigetha tutume mundu ungi utari toro. Uguo ni uru? (clapping)

Turacoka turouga undu ungi wa keri, mumember, amember matigathii kwi ongerera micara. Mandikitwo ni muingi. Riria micara

yao ikenda kwongererwo, turekira Commission. Turouga, mucara kuma wa muthigari, guthii wa mwarimu, guthii wa dagitari,

gucoka kwa mumember, andu acio othe mucara wao uri thondekagwo ni Commission. Na Commission iyo iretwo Salary

Commission. Ni getha ndugakore ati mwarimu areuraga na wira na ararihwo ciringi ngiri ikumi. Na mumember athiaga Bunge

maita meri na ni wa mucara wa ciringi ngiri na magana maigana?

Response: Matano

Com. Dr. Githu: No kuhoteke uguo?

Response: Aca.

Com. Dr. Githu: Turauga gutikwendekana ati niguo guguthii. Wa gatatu turoiga atiriri, member ni mathiaga makira kira

tukaigua ni macenjia Katiba. Turatigite undu muna uhana ona, tukaiugua macemanirie tha inyanya, na yacenjio hwaini. Turauga

acia, uhoro wa gucenjia Katiba, ni tukumetia mahinya mamwe. Menda gucenjia maundu maria maritu, muno muno ri, makamba

magoka magaturia. Gugekwo ira twitaga na Githweri kura ya maoni. Nigetha tugoka mangiuga atiriri, makauga nitukwenda

gutema githaka gia Kenya tuheane githii Uganda tondu andu acio mena thina muno. Tugakimera, hinya ucio mutiri na guo.

Githaka tondu ni gitu ri, muke muturie. Mangitwira ni turonire ni turenda kwongerera Bunge ni turonire ithuu twikuo turiogi

muno, hatiri bata wa muhure kura hindi ingi, reke tuthii na mbere, tuhe ita miaka ikumi, tuikare Bunge tukoima yathira ikumi.

Turametia mahinya mau. Turamera ucio ti wira wanyu, ucio ni witu.

Riu nikio turauga haha, Constitution ino njeru na ndataririo uguo muno tondu, he kundu ngathitini murathii mukaigua andu moiga

ati, ino ndiri handu ihete mwananchi wa kawaida hinya. Tima. Mwananchi wa kawaida ndari agia hinya toria inaguo. Ona

mundu ungi a gwitia ri, athii nake toro ni kanjura. Ona kanjura noguo. Twamutuma thiini wa thirikari ya district, tonduo nikuo

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kanjura riu ariciragira, onake athii toro, agitio na marua. Agacoka mucii tukamuhe wira ungi. Tugatuma mundu wina bata naki,

na wira. Riu nigetha andu othe maziwa lala mainuke. No uhoro ucio ni inyu mwatuheire. Ndathiri kundu na guku no

ndigukigweta ni ku tondu ni kuraya muno, twakinya na mumember uria twakinyire nake na ndege, ya thirikari, andu acio

makiuga, twina ngatho maita meri. Imwe ni Ngai kumukinyia. Ni iria ingi ni yanyu niundu wa kurehe mundu uyu. Uyu niwe

member witu. Twi miaka ikumi tutari twamwona. (laughter) Riu turenda gutikahane uguo ringi. O mumber agaikarania na

andu ake. Arega guikarania nao, akamenya ati, andu acio na matumane Nairobi, Speaker amucokie mucii.

Undu ungi wa gatatu, ni uhoro wa, mundu umwe atwirire atiriri, ati maita maingi, gwi kundu kwiragwo ng’ania ni above the law.

Tukerwo President ni above the law. DC ni above the law. PC ni above the law. Uhoro ucio wothe naguo turanina. Na

ninguka kwa DC. DC, PC, Chief na Subchief turauga wira wao ni wathira. Tondu matithuritwo ni muingi, na matiikaga uria

muingi urauga. Mekaga uria meretwo kuma Nairobi. Turoiga riu, macoke Nairobi mundu uria wa mahete wira amenye uria

agwika nao (clapping) nigetha naguku maturaini, tumenye andu aria tuguthura, mundu turahe mucara, na mundu ura tuhe gitio

akemenyaga ni ithui tumwandikite. Hau ni tuguka ndagika igiri cia thira. No haha ha watho, turauga gutiri mundu wa ndikitwo

ni thirikari ya Kenya kuma President kinya karani, wi above the law. Mundu a hitia kana ni President kana nu. Akanyitwo

agatarwo ku?

Response: Igotini

Com. Dr. Githu: President turathondekire atiriri, anginyitwo na waganu wa muthemba uriku kana uriku. Muno wa kwaga

gwathikira Katiba. Turathondeka ati, ciira wake uri ciiragwo Parliament na niguo witagwo wa impeachment. Riu Mugikuyu no

augire ni ciira wa kumubuta wira. Na ninguka hau ndagika igiri. Parliament turaugire igayanio maita meri. Nigetha kugie

nyumba imwe iria upper house…(Tape ends. Some information unrecorded) Na acio mirongo kenda, mirongo itatu ni iti cia

atumia matekuhuranira na mundu. Ciao mari aiki. Ndio kana ni mugwitikira uguo? (laughter and clapping) Githi tio matu

ciarire. Ko matiui ciira ri, nitungikinyite hau?

Response: Aca..

Com. Dr. Githu: Ini. Kwoguo iti ciao mirongo itatu matekuruira na mundu, cineo atumia. O district igatuma atumia ana.

Ciira wa kuruta President wa rehwo nyumba iria ya thi, igathii guciirirwo iriku?

Response: Ya iguru.

Com. Dr. Githu: Atumia nio maributaga President. Githi ti wega. Tia atumia aiki. Ni nyumba ina andu mirongo kenda.

Kwoguo acio angi, atumia ni mirongo itatu ici ciao. Iti icio ingi makahuranira na athuri. Kwoguo no mongerereke atumia

mahinge mirongo ina, no mongerereke makinye mirongo itano, orougwo orougwo.

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Undu ungi ngwendaga kuga wa Parliament, ni ati ni turathondekire iti ingi mirongo kenda. Na mucigwite ikugwetwo ngathitini

na radio-ini. Na iti icio uria itarario tiguo ihana. Tondu aria macitariria muno makienda gucicambia, marauga ati turaugire,

kugea na nominated member mirongo kenda. Tiguo turaugire. Turaugire atiriri, bururi wa Kenya uria ugayanitio, gwi kundu

andu mari aingi, na gwikundu andu matari aingi. Tariu kuria Mathare ri, ahuri a kura ni ngiri igana rimwe ria mirongo inana. Na

guku gwitagwo North Horr, a huri a kura othe ni ngiri ithano. Nani Constituency imwe. Kwoguo githurano riria giekwo ri,

ugakora ati andu aria mahete miti mumember wa Mathare, ni aingi gukira a Province ng’ima kundu kuna. Na athii guikarira giti

kiu? Tugakiuga hau hena mahitia. Na tondu kuratuika ati iti citingi twarana kuringana na andu (inaudible) ona iria ya kuria andu

mari ri, tugakiuga atiri, ni tuthondeke iti mirongo kenda, tucige kando. Twaciga kando, nigetha mundu a hura kura, akauga nii

ndirahurira kiama kiretwo DP kana Kanu, kana Safina, kana kiria kingi. Muti ucio waku riria wa uhura, uguthura andu aigana?

Uguthura andu eri, tondu DC, kana kiama kiria kingi gigukorwo kiritwo ni watho thondekai iti, ya andu aria mukongerera

kuringana na miti iria mwinayo. Ndiu kana nindiratariria wega? Iti iria mirongo kenda ni cia kuihuririria mundu wena miti ingi

miingi. Ni tuoye kwa muhiano, githurano kiu kirarikuo kia 1997, kiama gia Kanu kirari na abunge 54%. Na kiama kiu

giathuritwo ni andu 32%. Ni mwanyita?

Response: Ii.

Com. Dr. Githu: Bata wa system ino turageria kurehe, ni getha o kiama ni kiria kira heo, gikahota kuongerwo iti ingi iria

ciganaine na miti iria kihetwo. Angorwo kiama kia DP, kiaheirwo miti Kenya yothe, miti akio iyoka 40% no nginya kineo iti iria

90 kineo 40% of the ninety. Hau ni wanyita?

Response: Ii.

Com. Dr. Githu: Kiama gia Kanu nakio kingithii kiheo Kenya yothe miti 30%, nakio githii haria gikabu ini kia ka ninety, kioi iti

ciagana?

Response: 30

Com. Dr. Githu: Thirty. Riu uguo riria maricoka matonye Bunge ri ni wona ciama ni ciathii cigananiire. Uguo niguo turatuire.

Kwoguo aria marauga ati, iti icio cigitwo hau nigetha iheanwo buri, matiraria uhoro wama. Ni iti cia bata muno.

Na muti ungi wa keri wa iti icio ni getha turikie hau, ni tukiu guku maturaini kuri andu a bata muno, athuri na atumia, no tia ateti.

He mundu ni mwarimu, ni mundagitari, ni muhunjia wo uhoro mwega, ni wa wira uria ungi. Na tukauga mundu ucio angithii

Parliament, no ateithii gicunji kinene muno. No mundu ucio ndangihota wira wa guthii kuruira iti, ndangihota wira wa guthii

nominations, ndangika atia, andu acio niyo mekagirwo listi iria ya ki? Ya 90. Nigetha kiama kia hotana akahotanira ha? Nowe

ndaguka guku kuhoya miti, tondu nogukorwo ndari na kiheo kiriku? Kiu. No nimundu wa kihoto. Niwaigua riu hau. Nitugithii

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na mbere.

Undu uria ungi turaririe ri, ni undu wa citizenship. He handu mwatwirire hatirathii wega tondu airutu aria twinao, matuire matari

na hinya wa watho wakuhe ciana ciao ki? Citizenship. Riu kwoguo, muiritu ahikwo ni Muganda kana Mutanganyika, kana

Muthungu, ciana ciake igatuika ti ki? Ti citizen. Na mukiuga uguo gutiagiriire. Kana nikwagiriire?

Response: Aca.

Com. Dr. Githu: Tondu gutiri wa nda na wa?

Response: Mugongo.

Com. Dr. Githu: Turauga mundu wothe wa Kenya kana ni muiritu, kana ni mwanake, ciana ciake ni ciana ciake. Ucio ni muti

umwe. Wa keri, turuoiga atiriri, ciana iria turathomithia na mbeca nyingi muno tugacituma Ruraya na kuria kungi, na kuria kungi,

irathii cia heo citizenship kuo, nigetha marute wira, citizenship ya guku igeka atia, ikora. Turauga hatiri bata. Turathii hathara

iriku ithui, githi tiandu aitu. Turauga mundu onathii Ruraya, ni citizen wa Kenya. Aheo citizen maita meri. Nigetha riria

tuguthurana tukamutumira irebe riake. Uria aratuma mbeca tukaigua wega tukihuthira ri, nake akaigua wega akihura kura,

nagithii na passport ya Kenya. Uguo naguo turahitukia.

Ni twehera hau. Turoka maundu ma haki ya binadamu. Haki cia mundu iria mundu aheirwo ni Ngai wake na hatiri mundu

ungimutunya. Chapter five aria mwinayo murore chapter five. Niho uhoro ucio wothe twaritie. Na ndikwenda tucokere muno,

no ningwenda tuge ati ni turekirire hinya muno haki ya mundu wothe uciaritwo ate kwihota, kana ni wonje wa mwiri, ka ni wa

meciria. Na turauga ni wira wathirikari kumurora na mundu maria mangi.

Uhoro wa ciana, ciana iria ciikwo. Imwe iria ciiguku matuura-ini na town-ini, naciao turauga ni wira wa thirikari.

Andu arua mohetwo njera, Kenya gwatwikire kwohwo njera niundu umwe na kuhehwo hukumu ya kuragwo. Tondu njera

ndiumagwo, ndiri irio, ndiri ndawa, ndiri gwagukomwo. Turauga mundu e njera ndagatuike aigagwo ta nyamu. Onangorwo

mundu ndathiete njera ni gwika wega ri, kwihindi agithiete kuo nigetha oragwo?

Response: Aca.

Com. Dr. Githu: Turauga mundu e njera akahewo ndawa, akahewo nguo cia gwikira. Ndio kana ni mwonaga njera i haha

hanyu kuroragirwo andu hindi ingi. Mahuritwo ni thigari. Tokuga maundu mau matikoneke tondu tigwo bata wa njera.

15

Tugacoka tukauga magoti-ini riria andu meguka magoti-ini, ni mwatirire ati andu no marathii Igoti-ini, ona ata reketwo auge uria

auga, agatwika ni ohwo. Na turauga guthondekwo ofisi ya mundu turetire wakiri wa muingi. Constitution riu ithondekete wakiri

wa muingi. Na ari rihagwo mbeca ni thirikari. Ne gukorwo na ofisi Kenya yothe. O Igoti-ini, o Igoti-ini. Gutiri mundu

ugacoka gucirithwo tiga uria urenda, ata hetwo wakiri wa mungi. Nigetha amurugamirire. Tondu rimwe mundu athiaga agithii

kuheana ritwa riake ri, akaigwa kamurango ni kahingurirwo, na niatwarwo. Riu nikio turaugire, gutikana coke kuoneka uguo.

Mundu wothe guku Kenya, tukwenda mundu uria wikite uru ageka atia? Akohwo. No mundu utari uratuirwo ciira, akaheo

haki yake; nondu ucio ugathunguthwo, uria wikite atia? Wagiriire.

Riu uhoro ucio wa basic rights, ngurikia na kuga ati, ni turaugire thirikari ya Kenya no nginya o mwaka o mwaka igatwara

report thiini wa Bunge, yakuga uria ikiite, no uria ireka, ni getha andu othe manyui mai matheru, nigetha o mundu, o mundu

Kenya agakorwo na nyumba ya gukoma, nigetha o mundu , o mundu Kenya agathondekwo na ndawa iria ciagiriire murimu uria

arwarite. Nigetha o mundu thiini wa bururi uyu, agakorwo ndari factory arathukia kuria aikarite na maundu ma muthemba ucio.

Na turauga ati, onokorwo thibitari riu ndigukorwo I free, thirikari no nginya iheane timetable yoria ikuruta wira ni getha thibitari

ikorwo I free. Thirikari no nginya yuge, tuhei miaka mugwanja, kana tuhei miaka itano, kana tuhei miaka ikumi.

Na turauga undu wa muthia ati, githomo gia ciana iria nini kuma nursery school, nginya mundu arikie kirathi kia inyanya;

nonginya gikorwo ki free, na thirikari ikire watho wa gutua ugwo, within the next two years. Ciana ithomage ciothe. Nigetha

Kenya o mundu, o mundu agakorwo na gathomo gake gakwirugamirira nako. Gakuhota guthoma document iria thirikari

irandika, na kuigua radio na indo iria ingi, tondu bururi ndungithii na mbere andu matari na githomo.

Uhoro wa ithurano ni mwatwirire ati kwina thina wa ithurano. Miti kuiywo, ithurano guthukio, na mukiuga ni mukwenda miti

itaragirwo kuria andu mahurira kura, nega coka report ya kura ikarutirwo o hau, noguo ni turetikirire na turandika ati miti

iritaragirwo kuria andu mahurira kura. Na report yao iriumaga hau, na ndiriumaga Nairobi. Riu ithuii itura riri guku, igikinya

thinacara ni tugokorwo tui miti itu tondu tutariire o handu o handu; na niguokire thimu cia ruhuho, na twahura kuu kungi twaigwa

tutigweterera Commission ituire miti ni igana tondu ni tumenyire. Nigetha githurano gitigacoke kuiywo. Nigetha o andu

magathura mundu uria mareka atia? Marenda. Uguo naguo niturekirire.

Turacoka turauga andu aria mararugamirira githurano ri, ni tukwenda magithurwo tukamenyaga nio a. Tondu rimwe tukiraga

tukaigwa ni kuragiire Commission na ena andu mirongo iri na tano. Na nio megwikithia githurano, tugatigwo tukiurania atiriri

maraumire ku?

Undu ungi turekire thiini wa Katiba ini, turaugire, Commission ciothe, itigacoka guthurwo Bunge itoi. Nigetha President auga ati

kwina Teachers Service Commission, na Chairman wao ni Kamau wa Njoroge, tukaheo mweke wakurania, Kamau wa

Njoroge niwe u.. Na niku kungi acirite ciira nigetha agicire uyu wa arimu. Tukamenya history yake, nigetha onakorwo niari

waganu wake ugika atia? Ukamenyeka. Naithui tugathii tukona ma MP maitu tukauga, mundu tocio ndakana heo wira wa

16

muingi tondu ni mundu mwaganu. Na tiwira ucio wiki. Ni wira wa ma Judge. Gutiri mundu riu ugathurwo Judge Kenya. Na

nikio ma Judge muraigua mathukite muno. Riu ma Judge ni meguthuka tondu nituraugire o mundu wina gatuka gake a hingurite

Igoti-ini a hinge, tondu gutiri mundu irituikaga judge tutoranitie atiriri, mbere iyo araruaga wira uriku. Tukerwo aratuire e wakiri

Nyeri. Tugakiuga, andu a Nyeri ni merwo atiriri kana mbeca cia mundu ikite atia? Arite. Atwika ni arite ri, kwi hindi

tungikumuhe giti kiu? Aca. Kuo nikuo kuretigirwo. Tondu andu aingi ni meritigira. Ndungituika ambassador, Member of

Parliament matarorete history yaku. Ndukituika munene wa Parastatal, utaroretwo history yaku. Riu andu aria muraigua

manegete muno, na andu aria mariira ati we angirorwo na honeke kaundu. No mundu utari no undu wa kuhitha ri, angikimakio

nikii. Ni ho uhoro uri. Riu turaugire Commissions icio ciothe, nginya iria twaria uhoro ucio wothe wakuongerea micara ya

muingi, ndiri mundu ugaikara ho, a member matambite kumurora history yake, na maundu maria aneka.

Rekei ndimuhe uhoro hanini wigie Parliament, although ni ngumwirite hau gatene ati twina chamber ciagana? Igiri. Kuria aria

maguthii iria ya iguru, na kuria aria matigwo ino ya thi. Riu aria ateti haha, ni mwona hau ti horu tondu no uruire giki giathi

kiarema, uthii kiria kia iguru. Giakirema ucoke giki kia district. Muteti ndangiurira. No urire? Tondu ni iti maita mau? Matatu.

Riu niguo nakuo kuriciragwo. Kuriciragwo watho ukanjia nyumba ino ya thi, ugacoka ukarikiria nyumba iria ya iguru. Na

gitumi gia guthondeka nyumba ino ya iguru, ino ina atumia aingi, ni tondu turamite council na turamita National Council. Ni

nyumba ya andu akuhoreria ciira. Ni getha kungiuka watho umite naguku thi, andu acio mateciritia muno uhoro waguo ri, kanju

iyo ni yagwika atia? Ni takiama gia athuri, giakuga mutiragurire undu ucio, undu ucio wambe ucoke wikwo atia? Riu kanju

teyo ni ya kuga, ukorwo ni micaara ya arimu, bururi ndukarekwo arimu meke atia? Magome. Uge minister na andu ari angi,

kanju irwo igike ati? Irorere arimu meguikara. Kwoguo ni kanju ya bata muno na maundu mayo.

Tucoke tuke riu kwi mundu twigita President. Ungithikiriria muno kinandaini kurerwo ati, President uria urathondekirwo ni

Katiba, ni mundu wa buri, ndari na mahinya, naitunyirwo hinya wothe, ukiheo andu angi. Ti uhoro wa ma. President uria wi

Katiba-ini, ni mundu wina mahinya make, andu aria mwina Katiba hau, no murore article 16. Mundu ucio arm yothe ni yake.

Niwe wa guathana army, niwe wa guathana airforce, niwe wagwathana navy. Niwe commander in Chief. Niwe wakuruithia

mbara. Niwe wa kudeclare emergency, niwe wa kuandika ma judge wira, although no agukimageria Parliament. Niwe wa

kuandika ambassador wira. Niwe wa kuandika Permanent Secretary wira, niwe wa kuneana mawira ma parastatal. Mundu

ucio ena hinya kana ndari?

Response: Ni ari.

Com. Dr. Githu: Niwe wa kuamura Prime Minister. Niwe wa gu-chair, kanju igiri turathondekire cia bata muno, imwe iretwo

National Security Council, ya kurora thayu wa bururi. Chairman wayo ni President. Turathondeka kanju ingi igwitwo Defence

Council, Chairman nu? Na riu tuguthura mutumia twathii uguo, miaka ingi iguka. Muthuri ucio kana mutumia no uge ndari na

hinya? Ena hinya wa kurugamagirira bururi wake. Uria mwatwirire, mwatwirire atiriri, President, arathurwo e MP na ndarathii

Bunge. Andu a Gatundu matwirire, riria mathurite muthuri ugwitwo Jomo Kenyatta, ndathire Bunge ona muthenya nomwe.

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Ndari undu aririe wa kumatethia. Riria turathire nakuo Baringo, andu akuo maratwirire, muthuri uyu wikwo President nake

ndarithii Bunge ona muthenya o nomwe kwariria uhoro wao. Mugitwira, eheria President thiini wa Bunge, akarute wira wa

bururi. Uguo niguo turekire. Turauga ati, o Constituency, igie na MP utari na wira ungi. President nake agike atia? Riu andu

Othaya mangienda guthura muheshimiwa Mwai wa Kibaki agatuike President, tikuga ndagukorwo na MP. Megucoka mathure

MP wao. Andu aitura riria ringi taguo, nakuria kungi taguo, nakuria kungi taguo. Uguo riu niguo kuratwika.

No turauga atiriri, President nake ri, niariteithagio wira ni Prime Minister. Tondu ningi mwatirire atiriri, hindi imwe President ni

turarigwo ni maundu make tondu turona rimwe ahaica ndege ruciini na ndege ni ya bururi ri, agathii mucemanio wa kiama. Na

kiama ti kia bururi. Muratwira tariri, kai mutangimwira atigane na mawira maya nigetha tukamenya riria e wira wa kiama, riria e

wira wa bururi, nariria e wira wa thirikari. Riu Katiba ino njeru irauga atiriri wathurwo giti gia President, ukehera. Hindi iyo

urugamiriire bururi wi wothe. Na andu othe ni au? Niaku. Wira wa kiama ri, ukarugamirirwo ni andu angi naguo wira wa

thirikari ukarugamirirwo nu? Ni Prime Minister. Nigetha President riria araria na anene a bururi ungi, ndagakoragwo guku

nakuo no arathumborwo na tu undu twa ki? Twanaguku constituency yake, twa kiama giake, kana twa Bunge.

Nake mundu uyu turetire Prime Minister onakorwo arathurwo ni President, no mundu wihotaniire. Tondu arithuragwo kuma

Parliament. No tiiria ya iguru. Hau muririkane. Kwoguo mundu urenda gutuika Prime Minister aririkane uguo muno. Prime

Minister ndekuma kanju iria ya iguru. Ikume iriku? Ino ya thi. Ino tutuire nayo. Kuu nikwo akuma. Nake no nginya kiama

giake nikio kina ki? Kina andu aria aingi, amember aria aingi kuu. Riu ni mwona bata wa iti iria tukugaga. Iti icio ni ciaguteithia

Prime Minister akorwo na andu akuigana nigetha ahote kurugamirira unene wa ki? Wa thirikari. Riu ni mukuona hau he undu

umwe ungioneka. Mundu no athurwo President e wa kiama gia Safina kwa muhiano. No woka thiini wa legical ukore kiama

kiu giathanaga kuu ni kiriku? Tuge ni DP. Kwoguo President akorwo ni wa Safina, na Prime Minister akorwo ni wa DP, kwa

muhiano. Kana no gukinye handu President akorwo ni wa DP na Prime Minister akorwo ni wa? Kanu. Handu hau hari andu

marauga ati uguo ti wega. No inyui mwatirite atiriri, thirikari yetherwo uria andu ona maumite ciama nyingi mategutura mbara,

tondu bururi ni wau? Bururi ni witu. Kana kiama ni gia Kanu, kana ni kia DP, kana ni gia Safina, tukwenda o mundu wira wake

uria ahetwo ri, makarutithania nau? Na uria ungi uhetwo giti. Kwogu Katiba ino yoka, ni uhuthu gukinyi hindi uigue ati no nginya

marutithanie wira wa bururi. Ni waigwa, o mundu mena mahinya make kuringana na kura iria ahetwo.

He undu ungi turaigire hau na ndiu kana ni mugwitikania naguo i. Ni uraregwo muno ni andu. Inyui mwatirire ati MP aria

turathurire ri, wira uria munene muno mararuta ni guetha iti cia gutwika Minister. Makaga kuruta wira uria matumitwo. Ucio

wari muti umwe. Mugicoka mugitwira atiriri, na thirikari ino ni nene muno. Kenya ka bururi kanini, kena Ministers 27 na

Assistant Ministers eri, eri a twenty seven ni ki? fifty four. Riu fifty four tuongerera twenty seven igoka ki, eighty one. Thirikari

ya America niui ni a Minister aigana? Ikumi ni eri. Riu mugwitira atiriri, thii muhite mbeca ciitu tondu irathirira kundu kuriku?

Guku. Na andu aya ri, aingi ao gutiri wira wa kuruta. Ona munyinyi wa Minister ndonaga file. Tondu file ina u? Ina Minister.

Yauma kwe Minister igathii kwe Permanent Secretary. We tiga ngari ya buri, na nyumba ya buri, na thigari ri, ndari wira arika

atia? Na mucaara munene. Ucio mucaara niguo turenda ukore mwarimu guku, niguo turenda ukore marigitari, nigetha nao

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meke atia? Maturutire wira.

Turauga atiriri Katiba ini ino, thirikari igukorwo na Minister ikumi na acio? Na atano. Na matigakire hau. Ona turendaga

Ministry ciikirwo ya githomi, ya afya, ya ki, turauga ihii, reke tumahe riri kamweke kau nao tuone uria megucitua, no itagakire

ikumi na ciigana? Na ithano. Icoke assistant minister ni umwe. Aretwo Deputy Minister. Ni umwe tu. O ministry omwe. Hau

ni makwamba maregane naho ateti, tondu ateti mendete iti, riiu maigwite tuti ni twanyiha ni megwika atia? Ni mekurakara.

Haria hangi turauga atiriri, na ateti nao matirahenda muno. Turauga atiriri, wira wa Minister ri, meherio mathii Bunge tondu wira

wao ni guteta. Tondu inyui mwatirire atiriri, murenda akorwo ni Ministry ya health, tutume ndagitari uria uramenya uria areka.

arugamirire uhoro ucio wike atia, uthiire. Akorwo ni kwa githomo, ukaigua Minister uyu uria tene, ikaga ati ata natuika wa

githomo, ni njohi aruraga. Nikio ataramenya uria kurathii. Mugitwira atiriri, rehei ki? Rehei mwarimu arumagirire githomo. Riu

turaugire atiriri, Minister aya ikumi na acio, ti ateti, na mathii methwo Kenya yothe handu ya aruma. Mundu uui wira wake. Oke

eke atia? Arugamirire. Ateti matirenda uguo. Riu ni inyui mukumenya kana uguo ni wega kana ni uru.

Kuria kungi ni Igoti-ini. Igoti ni turaririe uhoro wario muno. Na muthomete ngathiti-ini na mukaigua kinandaini. Igoti mwatirire

atiriri, ma Judge maria mara ciira bururi wa Kenya matithuritwo ni ugi wao, kana githomo kiao, kana ni undu wogima wao. Ni

inyui mwatwirire niui ithuii tutikiui. Mwatarire mwona mukona andu aingi ni marathurwo ni undu woteti, mawakiri maria

maraigite tuwafisi, kawafisi gathii kahwererekera agathii agacaria muteti, muteti aka muneithia ki, giti. Ndari ciira aciiraga ni

guthaya. Ni ithayo. Ciira wa mugunda ni wa miaka ikumi, guthii miaka ikumi ne itano. Aria maciiraga magakuwa. Aria

matigirwo magakuwa. Na ciira nduri ureka ati? Uraciirwo. Undu wa keri unariria urituo, ugathogothanio nginya riu uria

ukuhotanite ciira nginya uria muhote gutiiri ungemenya uria ciira urikire atia? Urauga.

Ugacoka ukerwo, majudge ni meguthii mundu akahingura gatuka Igotiini gugatwika kundu kuu ni gwa ki? Ni kwa mbeca.

Mundu wothe urohwo ni uria muthiini. No uria uratunywo mugunda ni uria muthiini. Na inyui mugitwira atiriri, tonya kundu kuu,

mwaririkana Mwathani witu riria arakarire akora andu magiutha giuthi. Githi ndarakarire akiruta nyahunyu. Na riu inyui uria

mwoigire ni ati, thii kundu kuu mwike atia, murute nyahunyo, nigetha andu aria othe aganu meke atia? Meherio. Githi tikio

orona magithukite uguo. Nitondu ni mareherio ha? Hau. Naithui uria tugite ni atiriri, mwarimu aumaga wira wake wa warimu

ahingia miaka mirongo itano ni itano. Judge nitukiuge ni muciiri munoi na mugi makiria, tumwongerere miaka ikumi. Ahingie

sixty five. Makouga uguo ni uru. Tondu riu nia seventy four. Na Kenya tukouga turenda andu othe tuthii tuigaganitie. Ucio ni

muti wa mbere. Muti wa keri tukouga atiriri, gutikagie Judge uraciira maciira igotiini na kwi report kwa Police na kuria kungi

na kuria kungi, ati niaite mbeca ati ni ekite mawaganu mangi. Tokauga kamiti ithondekwo. Ma Judge mothe mundu aheane

uhoro wake. Angikorwo Judge Karatina yothe ni yake, nyumba ciothe ni ciake, na bathi ni ciake ri, githi to akiheano uhoro

oige kuria arutire indo ciake, he mahitia?

Response: Aca

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Com. Dr. Githu: Githi to akiuge bathi ndatigirwo ni guka, nayo nyumba ndiratigiirwo ni ng’ania. He thina? Githi to wiraini

agucoka. No turauga mundu wothe, wina indo icio na ndarahota gutuhe uhoro, niagiriirwo kwi hokerwo maciira? Aca. Reke

akahure biaciara, na tondu ena indo cia kuhura biacara ri, athii.

Turacoka turauga atiriri, aria judge maroka riu, tondu niguguka angi eru ri, gutikanatonye mundu ungi guciira tutambite kumenya

history yake, kuria atuire, maundu maria ikite, ituura andu aria mamui makaheana report ku? Kuria Parliament. Makauga tondu

ona ng’ania mwauga mumutue Judge, guku niautunyire andu migunda igika atia? Igithiira. Nigetha akaregerwo ku? Uguku.

Maundu mau ni moru?

Response: Aca

Com. Dr. Githu: Maundu mau nimo tugute mathii magathondeke Igoti. Wa muthia tukoiga, gutikanagie Judge, urathitangwo

ni kaundu kariku kana kariku agacoka agithikiriria ciira. Tondu inyui mwaturirie atiriri, tuiguaga atia twathii ruciini tukandika

marua gwa Chief Justice, tukauga ati Judge muna arathiire, araneo ni mundu uria turaciira nake pick-up niyo aratuara riu. Chief

Justice akoya marua akaiga, nawe ugacoka Juma tatu ukaroka igotiini mbere ya mundu uriku? Ukimenyaga uria ui. Turauga

uguo gutikanoneke. O mundu, o mund athitangwo akamba akeherio igotiiini, tuciirage eku? Ikuria. Riu maundu macio nimo

uraigua ati, ma Judge ni marauga ati Commission, nirenda kumaingirira, na ni irenda kumatunya mawira. Kwi mundu hau

waigua ugutunywo wira utari mwaganu?

Response: Aca

Com. Dr. Githu: Hatiri. Mundu wothe urutaga wira wake na kihoto, ndari hindi angitunywo wira. Undu uria ungi, ni ati, giti

kia Attorney General, ni turaugire gia turanio maita maya, na no inyui mwatwirire ati, Attorney General na ni wira wake

guthitanga maciira andu aria aganu tiguo areka. Mwatwirire arathii, athikiriria ateti, akorwo wi wa kiama kiria gitarendekana ri,

agakuguthikira uge atia? Ukohwo. Aya angi akiama kiria kirendekana ri, magathii na mbere naki? Guciira. Turathondekire giti

kingi kia mundu uretwo Director of Public Prosecution. Na mundu ucio turamuhe mahinya, ati ndangibutwo ni mundu,

ndangithumburwo ni mundu, kana ni President, kana ni muteti kana nu, wira wake ni kurugamirira ki? Kihoto. Nigetha erwo ni

ateti aguthitange arora ona nduri na mahitia agatigana nawe. Nigetha ona angi marenda kugitiirwo ni ateti na mena waganu

ageka atia? Akoya akoha. Uguo niguo turekire. Na nindi muheire uhoro wa mundu uria ungi tugwita, Public defender, ucio ni

wa kurugamirira muingi.

Undu wa muthia riu uria ingienda kuga niguo riu nainyui o mundu aheane maoni make, ni uhoro wa thirikari iria turacokirie

muciini. Ndimwirire riu thirikari ni maita mau, thirikari ni maita mana. Na muthikiririe muno. Tondu riria twokire guku inyui ni

mwatwirire inyui mutikwenda majimbo. No nayo Kenya ni bururi wa andu aingi. Na kuri amwe marenda majimbo. Riu uria

turageririe gwika ithuii, ni kugeria gwetha kabara gaceke hau gatagati ini, nigetha aria marenda majimbo matikaugwe ni maga

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kanyamu. Na aria mataramenda matikaigue ni meka atia? Turakio ire thirikari turamigayania maita mana. Gwi thirikari iria

nene. Iyo ni thirikari ya President. Ni thirikari ya Prime Minister. Acio niyo ene bururi wi wothe. Nio ene kirima gitu, nio ene

iria, nio ene rui, nio ene kiria kingi. Turacoka turoya thirikari, kuma hau turathii district. Thirikari iria nene, iria ina hinya muno,

iria mwananchi arionanaga nayo o muthenya o muthenya iku? I district. Nariu uria tugwika, tukwu oya kuria kanju irari, iria tene

turetaga County Council, tukumioya riu niyo iritagwo District council. Nakuo nikuo thirikari iria thanagira. Aria mwina

Constitution ino njeru, rorai 220. Page 27, ni mwona hau? Ni mwamiona page 27? Twanjie hau 215, ni mwona hau article

215? Thirikari iria ya thii biu iritwo hau village. No village niria umuthi uyu twitaga atia? Sublocation. Ni mwona hau, uria

thirikari njeru ikuhana ni ati, o village, no nitumite sublocation tondu nio tui. Every sublocation, igukorwo na kindu gigwitwo

Village Council. Ni kiama gia athuri a gichagi. Village Council. Na hau mungithoma ni mukwona kindu kiratuira ati, o

sublocation niyo irituaga kana ikwenda githurano, kana ikwenda village elders. Hau ni mui niki gitumite twandike uguo? Ni

tondu guku gwitu turi andu aithurano. No gwi kundu kuingi muno matekaga ithurano tondu wa? Kuo me kanju ciao cia

mihiriga. Tariu bururi wa Borana na Somali, na Turkana na nako guothe, matiiri ithurano. Giti kia village elder, mundu nikuneo

aneagwo akinyia miaka ya ki? No ithui ni turakienda gwikwo uguo? Ithui tukwenda gwikwo githurano, na nikio hau hekiritwo

cieri. Riu o sublocation turikaga githurano, tugathondeka village council. Kuma village council, tugathii location. Ningi he

location, turitumaga athuri aigana? Turitumaga athuri eri. Na muthuri umwe ni mutumia. Thiini wa location turitumaga andu eri,

muthuri umwe, na mutumia umwe, na nikuo kanju iri. Na thiini wa location ri, ni tuguthura mundu ugwitwo, Location

Administrator. Ucio tene aretagwo atia? Ucio niwe chifu. Nii ona ko ninii ndirorio ri, twamwita chifu. Ritwa ria chifu ri na uru?

Response: Aca

Com. Dr. Githu: Mwatwirire uru wa Chifu ni tondu ndathuragwo. Na kuogwo ndathikagiriria uria arerwo ni andu guku,

athikagiriria uria DO areka atia? Aramwira. No chifu we ni muru.? Aca. Riu thirikari iria njeru iguka, giti gia chifu turimwitaga

either Chifu kana location administrator. No ni ithui tumuthurite, na mucara ni ithue turimuheaga, na thigari ciake ni ithui twikaga

atia? Thigari cia chifu ciriumaga ku? Iri umaga ku thigari cia chifu? Guku gwitu. Ni ithui tukuhe chifu thigari ciake. Na acio ni

andu aria mugukorwo tumoe. Tondu mwatirire atiriri, thigari cia chifu mutiue kuria ciumaga. Na ciokaga kambiini ya chifu

igathondeka igoti, igatuika cia gucirithia andu hau ikimohaga igikaga atia, ikioyaga mahaki ma andu aria marugaga njohi. Riu

turenda location adminstrator na thigari ciake nia andu aitu a wira. Ona mundu urari chifu ri, na niatutirithitie wega ri, kwi hindi

tungiaga kumuhe giti giki? Aca. Ona mundu urari muthigari, nania arugamagirira wega ri, githi totu kumuhe giti.

Kuma hau thirikari iria iroriire, ni ya division. Haria DO arari, tutinona giti kiu kina bata. Giti kiu ni kirathirire. Kirathire na DO.

Division riu, ndiri na thirikari. Thirikari yothe iku, I location. Na kuma location, twithiaga gucemania ku, district. No thirikari

iria ina hinya biu, niya district tondu nii onako ndi muteti, giti kiria ingienda nikia munene wa district. Tondu munene wa district

riu agutwika Governor. Ni governor wa district yothe. Ne na mahinya makuungania igoti. Mahinya maingi muno, makungania

igoti, makurugamirira cukuru ciothe, makurugamirira thibitari ciothe, na health center, cia kurugamirira bara ciothe iria ciikwo,

cia kurugamirira maundu ma social work, ma ciana, ma andu aria akuru, nagithi iyo ti thirikari ng’ima. Mundu ucio turimwitaga

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district administror, no nii hakwa mundu ucio ni governor. Na arithuragwo nu? Turimuthuraga ithuothe. Kio githurano riu niki

ingihire andu.

Twathura gia President, tugacoka tugathura kia upper house, tugathura kia lower house, tugathura kia district administrator,

niwe ndireta governor, na ma MP make nu, ni makanjura. Tugacoka tugathura kanjura. Tugacoka tugatonya icagiini tugathuura

athuri a gicagi. Elders. Inyui niguo mwetirie, na niguo tugeretie gwika. Mwatwirire murenda democracy. Mutikwenda mundu

aikaragire giti kia muingi atathuritwo ni muingi. Na niguo turekire. Riu iti ihana atia? Uguo. Reke ndimurikirie uhoro wa

governor nigetha tuthie .. Governor ina mahinya maingi tondu riri, ahana Prime Minister no e district-ini. Thirikari yake athurwo

e Governor, agoka agathura dagitari uria munene wa district ri niwe uri mwandikaga. Mwarimu uria munene urugamirire

githomo giothe kia district-iri, ariandikagwo nu? Ni governor. Mundu ugwitwo Engineer wa kurugamirira miako ya district

yothe ri andikitwo nu, ni governor. Wakiiri uria uraciira maciira mothe ma district na guthondeka mawatho ma district ri,

andikitwo nu? Ni governor. No nake governor ndaramathura atahetwo rutha nu, ni kanju. Arithiaga gwi kanju yake akoiga riu

tondu ni ndirenda kwanjia wira, mwinaine wa githomo, mwarimu ng’ania niwe ndoka nake arumagirire githomo. Riu nao ma

kanjura makoiga, ni twamurega tondu shukuru iria iriga kurugamirira ri, no kuharagana ikirite atia? Yaharaganire. Thii mwarimu

ungi urehe. Riu iyo niyo democracy iria mwetirie na nio democracy turenda iyuke.

Riu he handu hamwe mungiuria, I province nayo iguthii atia, province wira wayo ni coordination. Ni kurehe district hamwe

nigethe ciike atia? No tikwoya mahinya ma district. Riu ithui turi andu a Nyeri district, Provincial Council iria iria iho, wira

wayo ni guturehe hamwe na andu a Kiambu, nigetha turanii atiriri, tondu turi a province imwe ri, thibitari imwe itu ya province

mukwenda tumitwarithie atia? Na tondu Kagumo ni cukuru ya province ri, mukwenda tunyitanire nayo atia? Province wira

wayo ti kuyoa mahinya ma district, na hau difference yo uria turauga, no uria andu a majimbo mendaga. Tondu andu a majimbo

mendaga thirikari icoke province, ni getha province ituike thirikari mwanya kuma iria ikuria Nairobi. No uria riu turaigwithanirie

ni handu hau gatagatiini. Na gitumi kimwe ni tondu, province cia Kenya, imwe ni nene muno, na ciagiriire kugayanio. Na iria

ingi ciana district ciagiriire gwikwo atia? Kugayanio. Na iria ingi itukanio. Tondu ni mukwona atiriri, thirikari ino turauga icoke

kwa district ri, Kenya uria ihana umuthi kwe district nyingi muno itangihota kwi rugamirira. Ni murona uguo. Tondu district no

irugamiriire na indu ciayo. Kwoguo uria gwokonekana thuthaini ni ati, district iria itaangihota ri, nicio iguthii guthaithana gwi

thirikari nene cieki atia? Icokaniririo hamwe tondu ni cieremirwo. Kwoguo iria ciathondeketwo cio teti ri, riu ni ihindi

ikunyorothwo, na ikunyorothwo ni maundu ma mbeca. Twi hamwe, haya.

Nitugithii turikie tuge atiriri, uhoro wa birithi, uhoro wa njera, uhoro wa army, uhoro wa aria angi, mwatirire and acio othe,

marugamagirirwo na njira igutuma aria maroywo mawira kuo, mundu agakorwo ena githomo gia kuo, na ena ki? Ena district ya

kwirutira. Turathii turathondeka wira wa polisi, turathondeka wa njera, turathondeka wa army, nigetha andu aria mara nenehio

mawiraini mau matigakorwo mundu arutitwo kundu arahihagia mbembe. Na muhihia wa mbeme ti mundu muru, no wira wake

ukiri wa kurumagirira kiria, riu uguo niguo tutuite. Na mwathoma hau ni mugwika atia? Ni mukwona. Riu uhoro ucio ukinyite

hau ni uru?

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Haya. Nitugikinyukii ikinya riu. Muthuri uria coordinator witu. Mr Coordinator. Ndirenda gugucokeria mucemanio riu,

nigetha ubange uria tukwoya ciuria kana comments. Tukwenda maundu maita maya? Mundu wa kiuria akoria gi kiuria, na

ndagikire cumbi. Akoria o kiuria kimwe. Mundu no urie atiriri, nii tondu nindaheanite uhoro wa migunda ri, mwandikite ha?

Githi kiu ti kiuria. Mundu ungi no oige atiriri, nii ndiri na kiuria no ndinondu ndirenda gukindira. Haha mugite uu, nonyende

muthii mwongerere hathii atia? Mr. Coordinator andu aku.

Mr. Nyumu (Co-ordinator): Niwega muno Commissioner witu. Kai mutanakenio ni ndeto icio (clapping) tondu ni

watutariria wega ta muthuri. Nani twaigwa twakena muno. Riu ri, ni mwaigwa arehe ndeto atagutinda akihura githaka, naithuii

tukiuria kiuria, mutikarahie ndeto ta ki? Ta mubuto. Mundu aheane point, kana kiuria atagutinda akirahia ndeto. Na tukwenda

kwamba kuona ni andu aigana marenda kwaria. Tukwambiriria mwena uyu, tuthii uguo, tuthiururuke uguo, o mundu, o mundu

akeheanaga ga pointi kamwe, kana kiuria kimwe, atagutinda agitariria ndeto muno. Tondu ndeto icio ni tuciaritie ihinda iraihu.

No guoko ukuoya wona ngihitukira hakuhi nawe, ukuoga uria ukwenda kuga, nake Commissioner aka note, nigetha aricoka ku

respond thuthaini. Thank you very much. Na mundu akagweta riatwa riake, kuria umite, na akauga mugambo wake.

James Nyaga: Njitagwo James Nyaga kuma Gakindu location. Nii kiria ndirenda kuria ni atiriri, tondu ni gugathio National

Conference ri, nariu ni hindi tuona mabuku maya na nituguthii tuthome wega tuikaire thi ri, tungienda gutuma uria ugatuthiira ni ha

tungimwona. He handu hathondeketwo thiini wa Nyeri nigetha tungithii kumwona, nigetha tumunengere maoni maitu athii namo?

Kiu nikio kiuria giakwa.

Mr. Nyumu: Oya guoko iguru

John Kanyi: Njitagwo John wa Kanyi. Kiuria giakwa kiri uhoro wa Commission. Ni ndona hari na Commission, hii inaitwa,

Salary and Renumeration Commission. Ngoria, Commission iyo ingiaga kuruta wira to the satisfaction ya aruti a wira ri, ni hari

na provision muthondekete ya Trade Union? Tondu ndirona ta hari na ini provision ya Trade union thiini wa Constitution.

Richmond Macharia Kariuki: Ritwa ni Richmond Macharia Kariuki. Ndirenda kuria Commission kiuria kigii, level of

education. Draft Constitution iyo iraheana uhoro wa MP. President ningugeria gwitha ndionete. Two, ona councillor ni wega

tumenyete, na nigetha tumenye undu ucio. Kiuria gia keri, kigii uhoro wa vice president. Ni utuheire uhoro wa Prime Minister,

na President, na muthurire wa Vice President nduna tugwetera hau ni ngwendaga clarification. Thank you.

David Kariuki Kabata: Ritwa riakwa ni David Kariuki Kabata, kuma Gakindu location. Na nii kiuria giakwa kiuma, riu ni

kuratwika ati, andu acio othe marithuragwo, mari heagwo salary ni andu a itura riu. Ngakienda kuria atiri, ni Igoti

riguthondekwo nigetha mucara ucio wonekage, kana iririhagwo kuma kuri thirikari-ini nigetha andu acio maricemanagia makona

micaara, na allowances cia andu acio marikorwo mathuritwo? Niguo ngwendaga kuria.

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Stanley Wambugu: Nii njitagwo Stanley Wambugu wa Kigumu. Nyumite Gitune. Hindi iria tugutaragirio uhoro wa thirikari

inya, ni njigwire ta hari na thirikari ingi hau gatagatiini, ino iretwo ya province, ndaigua igitwo anga co-ordinator, iyo nayo ni

iguthurwo kana ugwiciiria hau hagukorwo hahana atia? Kiuria kiria kingi, kwi Ministries imwe ikuo, ta Finance na Defence. Icio

igukorwo iri thiini wa district, kana igukorwo iri naku? Ciuria ciakwa ihana uguo.

Jackson Mwithiga: Njitagwo Jackson Mwithiga wa kuuma Giathugu location. Na kiuria giakwa gitiiri haha mabukuini maya

turathoma. Ngwindaga Commission kana, tondu riu turathii ithurano, na turaigua ta Bunge ingihingwo o ndagika o yothe. Kana

he na mutaratara hihi commission ingihuthira, Bunge ya hingwo, United Nations kana no I provide thirikari iria ingirumagirira

githurano kana I extend Commission nigetha irute maratathii maya uria itanyite? Nigetha githurani kirugamirirwo ni United

Nations.

Mr. Gacheru: Ndi Gacheru kuuma kuria Kiandu location. Kiuria giakwa ona gutwika hindio ingi ndinaiuga kiagetwo haha,

President ndagakorwo e Vice Chancellor wa University. Uguo Chancellor wa ma university maria twinao agakorwo ari mundu

mwandike ni Parliament, kana na njira nguhi agathurwo na githomo giake. Giakire, andu a university maheagwo bursary, na

andu a secondary.

Mr. Nyumu: Mundu oye guoko iguru, ukwenda kuga kaundu.

Gachanja Ngumo: Nii njitagwo Gachanja Ngumo. Na ningwenda kuuria kiuria. Kiuria kiria ngwenda kuria ni riri, hari

gitonga kiandunyire nyumba turi atano. Na niaraheire hanini na nieretwo ahe hothe. Na niandikire kuria Igoti-ini ati nyumba ti

yake. Nyumba ti yake, nyumba ni itu, na akiandika kuo. Ni turuomire haha aranjira anengere mbeca nii ndakuenda guciira

nanii, nii ndirarega. Nii nanii ndikwenda mbeca, riu kwoguo ri, ngwenda ciira ucio naguo munjire uria ninii ndingika. (clapping

and people talking)

Wambugu J.B.: Nii njitagwo Wambugu J. B. Na nyumite kuuria Gikondi. Kiuria giakwa ni section ino ya devolution of

powers. Ngwendaga kuria atiriri, tondu iti icio ni ciatwika fifty kuringana na Constitution ri, ni iri na age limit? Kana mundu

agirirwo ni ku-apply-aga ari wa miaka iigana. Na ningi terms cia guikira irikoragwo igitwarana na cia Parliament ati gwakinya

guthoranwo hindi ya Parliament norio, kuri-renew-ago iti icio. Gia keri nakio nguragia, tondu Assistant Ministers ni meherio

kugie na Deputy Ministers ri, ni makuongererwo hinya wa ku-deputise in the absence of the Minister? Thank you.

Mwangi: Njitagwo Mwangi. Gwitu ni Gikondi. Nii ndiri na kiuria direct. No nindirenda kuga ati Constitution iyo ni njega.

Na tondu bururi wa Kenya kuringana no uria ukoretwo uhana, ukoretwo uri ati nduri kindu kiega kingikinyira muingi ungienda.

Anene aria mari thiini wa Kenya gutiiri kindi kiega kiria kingikinyira muingi, mangienda ki makinyire. Na nikio nikuri na inegene

inene muno, ria Constitution ino. Tondu ni imite andu aria makoretwo moete bururi uyu witu, handu ona haria mangikorwo me

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bururiini. Riu ndirenda kuria atiriri, tondu ithue ni turamienda ri, na ona tungienda iikare uguo muni ri, na ni kuri na mundu, andu

marikuo marauga ni makugeria maundu mothe uria mangihota nigetha mamieherie ri, riu inyui Commissioners tondu muri ogi ri,

niatia hihi mubangete wa kugiriria nyamu iyo ndikoragirwo njira? Thank you.

Rev. Simon Nduati: Ha maritwa njitagwo Reverend Simon Nduati Muthumbi. Kiuria giakwa ni atiriri, tondu no turaigua kwi

na bununu Bunge ni ibunjwo ini time from now, na gwitio andu mambiririe ithurano ri, guthuranwo na Constitution iria nguru ri,

Commission kuri undu iciiritie tondu tungihuthira iria nguru, corruption no iguthii na mbere, na miti no iiyo?

Rev. Julius Maina: Njitagwo Julius Maina Reverend. Na ndirenda kuria atiriri, tondu ni turathoma ngathiti tukaigua mawakiri

kana Judges acio matwarite maciira Igoti-ini ri, we ta Commissioner niugututariria utumenyithia uhoro ucio makinyete ha tondu,

no twike uria wothe tungihota ni geta mahotwo uhoroini ucio niundu wa kumunyita mbaru?

Julius Kamau: Nii kiuria kiria ndirenda kuuria, ritwa ni Julius Kamau, kuma Karaba sublocation, Thanu location. Nii

ndirenda gucoka o haria village ini, tondu twirwo hau niho thirikari ikuma. Ndaigua thigari, cia chifu, niithui turikoragwo na

power. Kiuria ni atiri, undu thigari, ta mutugo niigithiaga ndevo, nariu niuthui twakorwo na power. Tuguthuura thigari cia nake

ta youth, kana ni thigari kabira iriku? (laughter)

Mark Maina: Njitagwo Mark Maina, kuma Thanu location in Kaharo sublocation. Kiiria giakwa ndirenda kuuria, tondu

Commission ino, ni kuratwika ati wona Constitution ici njeru irauga ati kinyonga nigikuninwo thiini wa Kenya kana mundu

ndarituagirwo kinyonga ri, andu matiri kiuragaga andu orougwo, kana akorwo andu matiri uragaga andu urougwo, kana akorwo

nigwo, aria matwiriirwo kinyonga ri, ni ma kwehererio? Kiuria giakwa ni kiu.

Duncan Mbuthia: Haritwa riakwa njitagwo Duncan Mbuthia. Kuma ituura ria Thanu location. Kiuria giakwa ni kiuria

gikugwetetwo ni Commissioner. Uhoro wa maciira maria makoretwo maciiritwo na hau kabere ni thirikari iria tukoretwo nayo.

Nangiuga uguo nguga ndina uhoro ucio wa kuhinyiririka, ndi kiuria kiu, gitumi ni tondu ningoretwo na ciira wa migunda miaka

miingi muno irathii ta mirongo iri, tukinyete tugaciira muthee wakwa akanyitwo, ni tondu wa thirikari iria tukoretwo nayo, handu

he mugunda uri gathima, riu gathima thirikari iria ikoretwo niyo ta headmen na hau kabere, akaruga mukira uyu ungi akarenga

mugunda wa muthee wakwa, akaucokia murimu uria ungi. Riu mahinda maria ndathiaga, kana athiaga, nigetha ndeto icio ciario,

akinyitwo, na agitwarwo njera King’ong’o Nyeri. Nariu thutha wa uhoro ucio tukiiga wakiri. Na riu nginyagia hau muthuri ucio

niarikitie gukuwa. Ndiri na muciari wa mutumia, ona ndiri na muciari wa muthuri. Na riu ciira ucio, kana thirikari iyo ni yokire

ne giaka githia kiu. Nariu mugunda ucio, uri na map, kana uri na title, nariu ni tondu wa kuhihinyana na thirikari na kwaga uhoti

mwega, undu ucio ukihimbirio ni gikundi gia thirikari iria tukoretwo nayo. Nariu thutha wa maundu macio mothe, ndiracokire

ndirerwo mugunda ucio ni ngunyitwo, na ndute kiria kiho, riu kiuria ni atiriri, ni tondu Commissioner ni gwetire ndeto njega, ya

mundu ni aciiraga na agacoka gukua ciira utari wa thira ri, ni kuri ikinya hihi Commissioner ingiteithia tondu ni kwina mathina ma

muthemba ucio turi namo?

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Muriithi Muhia: Ha maritwa makwa njitagwo Muriithi wa Muya. Kuma Muhito. Kiuria giakwa ni giki. Twataririo tweretwo

ati, andu aria tuthurute, ari Members of Parliament kana councillor, no tumetie tuge, matige wira angikorwo ni matuikite in

active. No nyende tutaririo procedures iria tungirumirira, nigetha tuhote kumaruta, angikorwo ni mathiite toro. Kiria kingi ri, ni

hakwaritio uhoro wa kuongerera micaara ya Members of Parliament. Na tugikinya kuuga undu ucio ri, ni kuona twonete

micaara iyo iri iguru na nira hinyiriria bururi, na nira tuhinyiriria ithuii turi raia, ni kuri Commission iguthondekwo ya ku review

micaara iyo yao currently?

Lr. Patrick Gathumbi: Njitagwoo Lr. Patrick Gathumbi wa Muriuki. Kuuma Rutumi location. Nii ni ndakenio ni maundu

maria turamenyithio ma draft Constitution. No uhoro wa village councils, locational councils na district councils, ningwendaga

gutaririo makiria, tondu hindi iria ndarutaga maoni makwa twina andu aria angi, twaugite qualifications cii na bata muno, ni tondu

haria tukinyete, ni tukuona on buriri witu ona githomo ni tubatarainie muno. Kwoguo no twende kumenya niundu wa village

administrators. Locational administrator, ona district administrator, qualifications ciao magithurwo ni iriku. Ni level iriku ya

githomo ibatarainie hari andu acio?

Robert Mugweru: Hari ritwa njitagwo Robert Mugweru. Na kiuria giakwa ngwendaga kuria Commissioner kuringana na

uria twaririe uhoro wa locational government. Haha guatuika nonginya hagii muthuri na mutumia. Kuri comminuties in Kenya,

itatamburite wathani wa atumia, nariu hau hangithii ati, kungituika ni kwaga mutumia ugathurwo?

Githinji Maingi: Haritwa njitagwo Githinji wa Maingi. Na nyumite (inaudible) location. Uhoro wakwa wa mbere, comment,

ni ati Judges ni public servants a Kenya. Na kwoguo woni wakwa ni ati ma consider-wo ma retire na miaka sixty, nigithe anake

aria marauma university namo magie na chance. Wa keri ni ati, no turie Commission ituire riria new Constitution igatuika

effective, tondu hena ngucanio in the parties, kuri marenda tuthurane na old Constitution, iria already ina mahitia maingi muno,

tondu ni centralised na mundu umwe tu, na tungienda gukorwo turi na say hari Constitution na githurano giki kiroka. Thank you.

Charles G. Mwangi: Njitagwo Charles Mwangi wa Githinji. Ndirenda kuria, niundu wa misaada iria turehagirwo ni NGOs,

iriambaga kuneo u nigetha ikahota gukinya haria yagiriire.

Francis Kiama: Njitagwo Francis Kiama, (tape ends, some words omitted) ona miti ni ya iywo. No nyende tutaririo ikinya

riria Commission ibangite, tondu kwi mabururi tuiguaga andu maikagia miti in a transparent box, undu hatangikorwo hena miti

ingi irahithitwo hau itarananirio mucoke mucindwo. Riu no twende gutaririo ikinya riria commission ikuoya, ni getha miti

ndikanaiywo, toria yanaiywo na hau kabere.

Nene Nderitu: Njitagwo Nene Nderitu. Ngwindaga kuria in case korwo thirikari iria ikoritwo irikuo, ni yauga gutithuranwo

na Constitution ino njeru, what would happen? Nakorwo no tuge tumahe time mathii na mbere na Constitution, tukona ta hari

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na ugwati, ta President angi continue may be for the time, riu turenda hi Commissioner kana matuhe hakikisho niaitia tungika,

kana ni ikinya ririku tungioya. Nigetha tukorwo na Constitution, na tutikamongerere time. Tuthurane within the time frame iria

iriho. Korwo no kuhoteteke. Undu uria ungi ni ati, ithui turi andu a Mukurweini, ni tuiguire tukenete tondu tanii uria ndaheanire

pendekezo ciakwa, at least nindona ciothe iriho. Tukiuge ati uhoro wa Ministries, Ministers ni merwo, uguo niguo twoigire.

Tutikwenda mbica tiria turona ndagika teno, ati Minister wa githomo, ndarahang’ania na maundu maria makonii thiini wa ofisi

yake. Ari in the campaign. Togwo tukwenda tuthurirwo andu independent. Thank you.

Donald Maina: haritwa njitagwo Donald Maina. Muhito location. Kiuria kiria ingeanda kuria Commission, ndaigua tugitaririo

hindi iria andu mabangaga uhoro wa githomo, maheanire kuma nursery school to standard eight. Ngamoria kana no kuhoteke

kana githomi gikorwo kiri free kuma nursery school upto O’level. Niundu common man, ciana ciake niikoragwo iri njugi, no

niundu wa gukorwo ndari na hinya wa mbeca, githomo giakinya standard eight mwana ucio agatwika, atangikirwo harambee

ndangithii secondary school. Uguo ri, githomo gigatwika ati nikia only the rich. Riu mwana uyu wa common man, ithe ni wa

nuthu acre ya kahua, ndangihota guthomithia mwana ucio up to university level, na ringi niangitwika President arikia university.

Elias Magutu: Njitagwo Elias Magutu, kuma Gakindu. Twaruthiriria bururi uyu witu wa Kenya, ni tukuona ati andu ni

ahinyiririe muno niundu wa magoti, taxation. Na Constitution, ndiu ka kwe handu ta hau tondu ndithiite through. Hihi hari uhoro

wa ku-regulate magoti ubangiitwo atia niundu the new Constitution.

Benson Thumi: Haritwa njitagwo Benson Thumi. Nyumite ituura ria Mihuti. Kiuria giakwa ndirenda kuria ati, twerwo

tungithura mu Bunge, athii kuria akome, ni ithuii turimwitagia kuma kuri speaker. Kiuria giakwa ndirenda kuria ati, tondu

journalist, tutikoragwo na freedom iyo nene uhoro wa guthii ku gather information kuo thiini wa Bunge, ithuii raia aya anaguku

icagiini, kana andu ari matonaga magathiti, aria matonaga ma television, turituga information ku cia uria andu aitu tuthurute uria

maraturutira wira.

Kiuria kiria kingi, no nyende kumenya media na journalist freedom, iria maraheirwo ya ku gather-ga information kuu thiini wa

Bunge nigetha muraiya ateithike.

Ephantus Gitonga: Ritwa ni Ephantus Mwangi wa Gitonga kuma Gakindu location. Wa mbere no thank-ire Commission ino,

ni undu wa wira mwega irutite. Nigukorwo kuringana no uria twaririo kuringana no horia handikitwo, no njugire Constitution

ino, no ndimitire Constitution for a cleaner people. Njoke njurie undu umwe, rimwe mundu nie eciragira andu, akariganirwo ni

gwicirira. Ndirenda kuga atiriri, Commission ino, kuringana na wira iria iritute, nirutite wira mwega. Ona kwanagia Commission

ingi, itari ciahota kuruta report yao. No niingiuria kana ni hari na provision thiini wa Constitution ino njeru ya gutira

Commissions, iria ingi ingocoka ithondekwo ni thirikari nigetha kwage na kindu ingita, intimidation ya Commissioners. Tondu

tariu already riria turathomaga magathitini, ni torona Chairma wa Constitution Review of Kenya Professor Ghai, niarahana ta ara

intimidate-wo. No hakorwo hari na protection, ya Commissioners in future.

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Francis Ernest Nguura: Haritwa njitagwo Francis Ernest Nguura wa kuuma kuria Gikondi. Ni twirirwo undu ukonii

guthuura President, no ningwenda hathomwo wega kuringana na uu nguria. Akorwo ni kundu ta Othaya kuri na mundu ta

Mwai wa Kibaki urarugama President ri, arirumaga Presidency as well as the MP, kana arirumaga athurwo President gugacoka

gukagia na by-election toria Speaker athuragwo? Kiu nikiambere. Kiu kingi nakio nikia rigging ya githurano. 1997 nikwagiire

na IPPG na NCC igeretie guthondeka maundu wega muno. No riria IPPG iyo yathondekirwo rigging yacokire guthii ona

mbere. Kuru undu hihi Commission ingika, nigetha ithondeke mawatho, akorwo ni ku-amend maria mangirugamia githurano

kungigikwo ne ino njeru, kana iyo nguru? Wa gatatu nikuri kindu gitagwo corruption, na andu a migunda kana surveyors, ni

matongaga overnight, magiuka guthondeka mihaka ya migunda. Ni atia Commission ireka nigetha corruption ithiire. Andu acio

magiuka kugaya migunda, surveyor ndagakoragwo already, hari micaara iria maheagwo ni thirikari na no arenda gukorwo

akihakwo. Ka muico, ni kaundu gakonii thirikari. Kuri andu maratanya atiriri, Bunge no extendwo, nigetha tugii na Katiba

njeru hihi mweri wa gatatu kana wa kana. Ngwendaga kuria atiriri, kuri undu hihi Commission ingiciiria, githurano gia kinya,

akorwo ni January ithatu, President a retire o uria agiriire, kana ehere ofisini. Nayo hihi Bunge iki- extend-wo, na MPs no

mathii na mbere na mathikiririe uhoro wa National Conference Center. Kuri undu hihi ungiuka Commission ithondeke mundu

witagwo speaker, athii na mbere na kurugamirira thirikari nginya hindi ya githurano? Asanti.

James Kibui: Haritwa njitagwo James Kibui kuma Muhito. Nii ngwendaga gucokia ngatho niundu wa Commission,

kuringana na wira uria munene arutite. No tondu kwina threat ya andu amwe anini marauga ti people driven Constitution, nii ni

nguragia kana kuri undu ungikwo ona tariu Commissioners marathii na nja, tu sign document andu aria othe turona ni correct na

ni iitu. Tumi sign na twikire ibandi ciitu ni getha matige kwaria uguo mari anini. Ni time marenda ku-by. Ni gutuninira marenda

gutuninira mahinda. (clapping)

Joseph Githinji: Nii ritwa riakwa ni Joseph Githinji, ngwendaga kuria nindirathomete handu ngathitiini ni ndorinire o mundu

thiini wa Kenya mundu muciiare ari na thiiri wa makiria ma ngiri mirongo iri, no tuende thiira ucio waumire naku, tondu ono

rikuona thiiri. Kiuria giakwa gia keri, ngathiti iyo yari ya muthenya wa last Thursday. Ati mundu wothe uri thiini wa Kenya ari

na thiiri wa makiria ngiri mirongo iri, thiiri ucio, woimanire naku, na ndukombete. Kiuria kiria kingi thiini wa Constitution njeru

turona thiini wa githomo, una nikuritio ni mundu ungi uhoro wa githomo, turi na public schools, na private schools. Tungiikia

maitho muno makiria, githomo kiria kiratwarwo thiini wa public schools, nigukuoneka tikiiganu muno makiria toria ciana cia

private schools, iheagwo. Ni atia Constitution njeru ingihota kugitira ciana ici irithiini wa public schools cioneke ta ciana ikuhota

guthoma, na ikahota gucompete na ciana iria irathomera thiini wa private schools. Kiuria gia gatatu nia atiriri, tuthuraga ajumbe

aitu, riria mari na mbia, na riria makuhota gwika harambee. Thiini wa hihi thirikari ino tuguthondeka njeru ri, mutaratara wa

harambee ri, hihi nituguthii ona mbere thiini wa Kenya. Niguo tuteithagie andu ari mari thibitari, na aria mari mashukuruini. Na

niguo tuone thirikari, ona muthini, ona uria ungi utekiirwo harambee niakuhota gutura thiini wa bururi wake na thayu. Thank

you.

Jane Wanjiru: Muriega inyuothe? Ha maritwa makwa njitagwo Jane Wanjiru wa Ngara, na nyumite Gikondi. Hakwa ti

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maundu ndirenda kuongerera, no ni ndirenda guko conglatulate our Commissioners ni tondu wa wira uria mwega maturutiire.

Hindi iria tuingirire guku na twaheo draft itu ya maundu maria twaheanite maoni mamo, nyambire kurora table of contents,

nyone kana kuri kaundu hihi Kangirwo kahitukitio ndoigite. I want to conglatulate you very much, ni tondu ni muhutikitie undu

wa tumite ngoro yakwa ihurike, no undu ndiraikarite ndi eager, nyone kana kuri undu ukahitukio wigii uhoro wa ciana. Guku

Mukurweini ngoragwo ngi fight rights for the children. Na ngoragwo ngiruta wira na project iriho itatwo, the Good Shepherd

Orphans Project. Ndiracokeria Commissioners aitu, ni tondu wa kuhitukia mawoni makwa thiini wa Constitution Review of

Kenya, praise the Lord. Ndaigua ta ngurugaruga, ndiui kana ni murakena. Ndiraigua ngenete ni tondu ni mahitukitie.

Makahitukia the Bill of rights mwenaini wa ciana, iri thiini wa table of contents number thirty seven. Neno ingi iri page five,

number twenty two. Ni ndirenda gucokia ngatho muno. Ni tondu wa kuhitukia undu ucio wa ciana, tondu nituturite na ciana

nyingi thiini wa streets, na orphans nginyagia umuthi iri miciini yao, but we had not seen uria Government itu irekite niundu wa

ciana icio. Niundu ni ndingienda mwathii na mbere muthii na mbere na gu- stress uhoro uyu wa ciana, nigetha tutige kuona ciana

igi suffer thiini wa micii itu tondu ni orphans naitiri na mundu wa kumamenyerera. I want to thank you and again I thank you

very much our Commissioners for considering our views. Thank you.

John Mwangi: Ha maritwa makwa njitagwo John Mwangi wa Murage. Kuuma Thanu location. Nitueriirwo ati, chifu, ni

mekubutwo. Na mabutwo Constitution njeru ikuga ati, ni kumathura twi mathuraga. Hindi iyo marandikwo ni thirikari

tutekumenya. Ni mara retire-aga na miaka fifity five. Twamathura ri, ni mari retire-aga kana mundu ariikaraga atia? Still onoyu

nake utukwire niwe District Administrator ri, nake niari retire-aga? Kiuria kiria kingi ni ati nigukoragwo na MPs mahinda

macio mangi, marikia term yao ni maraheagwo pension. Constitution ino njeru ri, niriheagana pension kuri MPs? Riu nako ka

muthia kegia mwari ucio ukwaragia wigie ciana. Ni kuri na undu warikuo tene, ati mwanake na muiritu, mangeacemanirie kugie

mwana ni kwagiaga na kindu gietagwo affliation. Na riu nihaniti te cokete, ati mwanake na muiritu mangecemania kugie mwana,

kwina handu harathitanganwo. Gugatwika ati mwanake ucio ukorwo ndakuhikia muiritu ucio, niakurera mwana ucio. Hau

naho ri murorete na njira ihana atia?

Samuel Kariuki: Njitagwo Samuel Kariui wa Gitegi na nonyende kuria kiuria giakwa. Njurie ati kuringana na Members of

Parliament uria maraiganaga mbere namba yao, ni maronekana ni mongererekete biu tondu hari ninety makuongererwo. Na

kuringana no uria kwa tene, micaara yao yari iguru muno. Ngwendaga gukwira comment njunge ko no kuhoteke micaara yao

kuringana na Katiba njeru, ithii inyihanyihio tu uria kungihoteka nigetha mbeca ihote kugairwo andu aria angi. Undu wa keri ni

ndoretie kiuria kia private colleges. Cia arutani, kana cia nurses kana ici ingi cia thirikari. Tondu kigerani gikoragwo gi kimwe,

na mahitukaga kireganio kimwe, makagia na qualifications imwe. Thirikari iregaga kumoya na kuma-regard kumamukira

mawiraini undu umwe niundu wa ki? Njoke njokie ngatho niund wa inyui, inyui mu draft ite Constitution ino. Ni mwikite wega

niundu wa compiling yanyu, njega, na nguhi, na njiganiru. Na ngwiciria nigutwika recommended kwi bururi wothe. Thank you

very much.

Joseph Muriithi: Ha ritwa njitagwo Joseph Muriithi Wanjohi kuma Muhito location, Ndia sublocation. Nii hakwa kiuria kiria

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ndirenda kuria ni giki, riria kwagia maciira ma migunda especially reke njuge guku gwitu, ni kugia maciira ma migunda magathii

kuria gwa tribunal court. Nii ihoya riakwa ni ati, korwo no kuhoteke, uhoro ucio wa maciira ma migunda itwigie macokerio

clan members no gukorwo kuri kwega makiria tondu clan members nio mari na details ciothe cia relationship ya andu acio

metanitio na mugunda ucio. Kiuria kiria kingi ingienda kuuria kia namba igiri ni giki, thiini wa area-ini turi, ni kuri na public

lands. Migunda iria itagwo ya public lands, yakinyire handu ika-grab-wo makiria muno ni councillors aria twathurite na haria

kabere, kana aria turi nao. Nguria mwena ini ukonainii na Commissioners aria turi nao kana hihi no metikirie, migunda iria yothe

ya public lands I-grab-itwo ni councillors, kana andu acio angi a thirikari macokerie muingi uria mwene. Thank you.

Wanyaga Mutahi: Haria njitagwo Wanyaga wa Mutahi, kuma Gatura Muhito location. Nii ndingienda kuuria ciuria igiri,

njurie hari ithurano cia President, tondu President ni kinya miaka mirongo mugwanja ri, no twongerere tondu no akorwo ona ari

na miaka mirongo muganjwa na itano, na akorwo ari o mundu ukuhota gwatha bururi, angikorwo ni tukuhota kumuthura? Ucio

niundu umwe. Undu uria ungi njurie atiriri; angikorwo Constitution ino njeru tureragwo ni gicunja kia mirongo iri na ithano, o

hari province president akunyita ri, no tuongerere tuge uria ugukorwo na majority votes, over twenty one percent, ucio niwe

ungikorwo ahotanite? Kiria kingi gia gatatu ri, no recommendations ingiongerera haha ya wira ucio mwega ikirutitwo ni

Commission, njuke hari mwena ini wa magoti. Ndakiuka hari mwena wa agriculture- ri, no njurie Commission ka noyongerere

haria mari magoti, ati magoti mai indo cia agricuture, hindi iria utonga wa bururi wa coka nathi ri, thirikari no iheage arimi kindu

gigwitwo, subsidy angikorwo hihi mbei ya indo ni igwite kana indo itiragurika wega. Kiria kingi njurie, hau hauma ha subsidy.

Njurie atiriri, hindi iyo ya economic recession. Riria bururi ungikorwo wina economic recession, no hekirwo hari magoti ati,

tondu marerwo mundu no amehutie no uria angika, macio ma griculture no nginya mangikorwo mari ho ati hindio kuri na thina

ucio no muhaka mehutio ihinda nginya riria bururi ugacoka haria iguru ringi? Thank you very much.

Eliud Gacanja: Njitagwo Gacanja Eliud King’ari, ngwendaga kwanza kwamba kunyita mbaru muthuri ucio waria uhoro wa

age ya Presidential candidate. Ya seventy years. Ngona hari bill of rights, mundu ndangi discriminitwo nitondu wa age yake

and the religion and the like. I think there is a contradiction there tondu ingikirumaga ndiwa miaka eighty, na turauga

Constitution ndira discriminite mundu ri, niki gigutuma ati gwakinya ndirarumaga giti gia President gutwike miaka nikungiria?

Having said that, ndina kiuria kingi, mundu uyu ugwitwo Prime Minister, ungirora ndandikiirwo academic qualifications ciake,

apart from that niara make basic qualification cia, MP naicio ni form four, na akorwo ina pass. In my opinion, ngona iyo ni a

very low academic qualification for a Prime Minister; ni gukorwo agitongoria cabinet ina technocrats. I would want to believe

kuri hindi ari free-aga kana aga-suffer inferiority complex, tondu niaratongoria andu athomu muno kumukira. My proposal is,

akorwo nake ena qualification onake ota cia President. Which is a degree. Undu uri ungi hari andu aya metagwo uniformed

officers, andu ta jeshi, ma vote-gira kuria barracks-ini, na andu acio ngwiciria tondu barracks ikoragwo iri restricted area no

mahuthirwo hari ku- rig githurano. Tondu ithuii tutikiingira kuu twone number iria ya thurana niyo iringanite na miti iria irauma

kuu barracks-ini. Thank you.

Muiru King’ori: Nii njitagwo Muiru wa King’ori kuma guku Muhito. Kiuria giakwa ndirenda guki-base na chapter ten

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devolution of powers. Kuringana na Chapter ten, draft Constitution, niratwitikiria turi ta raia guthura members a village councils,

location councils, na district governor. Ngenda kuria atiriri, tondu nii nditaraiya ni ndaheo hinya ucio wa guthuura a member

acio akanju icio ri, Constitution ino njeru ri, ni hete muraiya powers cia kubuta mundu ucio angioneka ti effective? Tondu in the

current Constitution, nituheagwo rutha rwa guthura councillors na Members of Parliament. No riria twamathura ri, tutikoragwo

twina hinya wakumaruta itiini icio nginyagia full term yao irithiira. Tondu meragwo maguikara Bunge miaka itano. Ndirenda

gu-suggest atirir, in the draft Constitution, kuringana na term iria Members a councils icio mariheagwo ri, mundu angiona ni andu

aria mamuthurite ndaramarutira wira ri, andu acio no maheo hinya wa kumubuta? Thank you.

Karuiki Kimaru: Nii njitagwo Kariuki wa Kimaru na ndiwa Muhito. Kiuria ni giki, uyu ni mundu ni anyitwo, na athitangwo,

na atwarwo njera, kana aturio rumande matuku maingi muno, mundu ucio ringi na ringi ri, anyitirwo kwanja tuhu, kana hihi ni

tugoti turia tuciiragirwo nakuu thutha, mundu ucio nia ciirirwo Igoti ini agicoka akirekio ni appeal, na matuku make mothe ni

muriire kuu, kana agiturio remand agicoka akirekio ni igoti, mundu ucio ri, rights ciake, agiriirwo kuigwo ha, hari muraia?

Wanjohi Mwaniki: Maritwa makwa ni Wanjohi wa Mwaniki, kuuma Giathugu. Kiuria giakwa kiria ingienda kuria, ni kia

mwena wa administrator ucio wa location. Tondu niatwika niaguthurwo ni andu, nguria Commission kana hihi, nirorete,

niakuhota ku-perform duties iria ikuo. Ni tondu ndagathurwo ni andu othe, no duties arirutagira andu othe. Kiuria kiria kingi ni

ati, ni tondu twathoma Constititon ya Narc nirouga nigucokia police shukuru, mathomithio discipline njeru, na tondu thiini wa

administration, kindu gigitwo corruption ni official, ndiroria kana hihi ni kuri handu muthondekete tugwo mwouga, chifu no aheo

wira ungikorwo ni mwega. Kana niuthondekete handu angiamba gucokio course, nigetha ucorruption ucio mega naguo

wonekane kana niugugithira? Ndiri na kiuria kingi.

Nderitu Gakonya: Haritwa njitagwo Nderitu wa Gakonya, nyumite Gakindu location, I am a retired officer. Kiuria giakwa ni

kihuthu, ndirenda kuria tondu bururi uyu witu niukoretwo na andu aingi muno matari nginya hagwaka. Na tondu ninjiguire hari

hand hakwaritio ha land and property, hihi Commissioners kana Commission iyo yanyu nireciiririe uhoro wa kunyihia number ya

andu acio aria metagwo squatters, tondu ona tuiguiga ta Okiek, matiri kwao, no haria mangithii na matiri kindu. That is one

question. The second question ni ya quorum. Tuiguaga hindi ya kaberange, andu mirongo itatu, tu nima ngiraikarire nyumba na

matuike ati, ni full. Hihi mugikinya haria muragwetire thirty per cent ni mura consider-ire the people? Uro kiuriaini kiu gia

quorum, ni matuku maigana mundu ageria guciira kirumaniririo ari thiini wa Bunge? Icio nicio nyuma nacio.

Muturi Muthigani: Thank you very much. Njitagwo Muturi wa Muthigani. Na gwitu no guku Mukurweini, Muhito location.

Nii ndiri na kiuria nguria, tiga no comment ngwenda gwika. Nithomete Constitution ino, nginya riria yaumire last week, gutiiri

itathomete, ni thiiti through, na ninyonete ni njega muno. This one let me thank the Commissioners so much, niundu wa wira uria

mwega marutite, tondu nii onandieciragia draft ni kuma ati na njega uguo. Secondly twarikia gu compare Constitution iyo ne iria

irariho, ino ina makiria ma twenty chapters. Niyo ingi, ngwiciria irari na Chapter ta ikumi uguo. Like that. Na nikuonania ati

maudu maingi maria maheanitwo ni mahotete gukwirio ho.

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Two, comments ciakwa ti nyingi muno. Imwe ni on chapter seven and eight of this draft Constitution, ikonainie na Presidency,

na Government set up, uria muthuranire wa President, na icio ingi, na Government Set up. Iyo ni njira njega muno na noguo

tworagia uhoro wa Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Ministers, running mate, hari Vice Presidency, na iyo noguo ihana. Ningi

uhoro wa nyumba igiri, ni provided, na ni njira njega muno, tondu nyumba imwe ingikararania, iria ingi niguthii guthondeka ndeto

icio. The same section hari set up. Nitui ati thiini wa republic kwina Constituency 210. Na kuringana na new drafts, kuronania

gugwikirwo 90 Mps gucoke gwikirwo 30 ministers outside the Parliament. Gucoke gwikirwo seventy, from the upper house.

For senate. Kuringana na nii maoni makwa ri, that is too much. Kiria turona kwi na so many Ministers na Assistant Ministers,

na niturona nimara rihwo mbeca nyingi muno. Kunyihia size, toguo Commissioner oigire ni wega muno no tinyihu. Ingi suggest

uu, Mr. Commissioner nigetha riria muriikara thi, mwike uria mugwika. 200 MPs tondu Constutuencies itingiminwo no muhaka

magio ho. Ngona ati thirty Ministers, icio ni Ministries njega muno. Fifteen only. Na ciume nja onagutwika haria mutiugite

clearly kuringana na Constitution, mugite they can be, uguo nikuga ni open. Upper House ni njega tondu ina mwenaini wa

district kuringana na district. No haha ha nominated Members 90. Hau onanii ninguga manyihe nyihe. Ninguona ta mari aingi

muno na no tax payer urakiruta mbeca. Ngona andu acio na suggestion iyo muri nayo ya kuringana na muturanire wa voters na

ciama no ikwo orougwo na manyihio. Infact mangi base-wo na provinces. Ma base-wo na provinces, tondu provinces voters

ni ciuikaini province voters maigana ona. Na kiama kuria kiri na hinya githiaga mwena wa provinces. Ko no ma reduce-wo we

have about eight provinces including Nairobi and if we say there are anything between four and five, in every province ni

makwirehe. Na noguo makunyiha akorwo ni North Eastern tondu population no nini. Ma base-wo na ciama tondu ituikite

strong nakuo provinces orougwo. We can reduce the number of nominated MPs to between thirty and forty. Kwoguo

tungiehutia kindu ta fifty MPs nitukwoneka ati handu ha 400, tondu kuroneka riu nyumba icio cieri, igukorwo na over 400 MPs

niundu wa un official Member ta Attorney General na aria angi, no manyihe nyihe, na no moke anything between three hundred

and three hundred and twenty. Iyo ni my calculations.

Devolution of powers. Iyo ni chapter ten of the draft. Iyo nindirona ni njega muno, utogwo twataririo but I can say ina hinya

muno. Ni complicated. Na niku need further scrutiny, further legislation, nigetha ikwo civic education wega ituike expounded

nigetha andu maminyite. Kogwo ingiuga my suggestion ni ati implementation ye iyo, iheo time. And I am happy ndathoma

Constitution, ni ndirona sections nyingi ni mugute registration ikwo and the time limit given. That is a good provision.

Lastly, It is all about chapter five, section 44 of the draft Constitution, and that is about religion. Freedom religion belief and

opinion. Nimwikite wega muno hau ni njega no I have some reservations. Ndiu ni ati aria angi. Uhoro wa kuga ndini itwike

open gutari ka legislation ga gwikirwo ga ku-curb imwe it is not the best. We have experienced. Nituigwite uhoro wa ndini

cietagwo ndini ma msabwa. Ka tigwo, nituigwite ingi cia Jame Jong, iria ciaheanaga poision niundu wa beliefs ciao. Ona guku,

guku Uganda, nituraigwire uhoro na turathoma magathitiini. Ona guku Kenya ri, ni tukiagite Mungiki na other sects. Twina cio

kuu riu kugwo niturona ni hakuenda hatuike expounded wega, registration, whether their will be a regulating body, ya kuhota ku

regulate relations, tondu ingirekererio ugwo they can bring up so much and it can be a problem to the ordinary mwananchi.

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Thank you very much Commissioner and you have done a good job. Thank you.

Dan Wachira: Haritwa njitagwo Dan Wachira kuma uguku Muhito. Kiuria giakwa kiria ndirenda kuria ni atiriri, ni tondu

turona magathitiini tukaigua ati uhoro uyu wa Katiba ino tiuria ithu twa ririirie niundu wandikitwo ni mugeni kana ni Muthungu

kuma na nja ri, na ndaruthiriria ndirona tariuria twaririirie thiini wa hall ino ri, ndirenda kuria atiriri, ni Muthungu uyu waikarite na

haha rugito rwa hall ino agithikiriria uria twa cirire turithiini wa hall ino? Na akorwo arikihori, kai hakiri mahitia mariku na arauga

uria twa ciriire hall ino?

Patrick Gathumbi: Njitagwo Patrick Gathumbi wa Muriuki, lay leader, nyumite kuria location ya Mutune. Ni ndacokoho

ringi nigetha njurie kiuria kana ni habatarie kwongererwo uhoro wa Bill of Rights. Ni chapter five, uhoro wa the aged, andu aria

akuru, na aria older and the aged members of the society, and the unemployed. Ni hindi ndona hau bill of rights, thiini wa andu

acio ndagweta, ni heritwo ati ni mariheagwo assistance ni undu ni akuru, no ningwendaga kuuga na kuona ati ni hagiriirwo

kwandikwo uguo hari ati ni hagiriire andu acio, older and the aged members of the society and the unemployed, kugie na kigina

gia tubeca, andu acio riria maremereirwo na matiri kindu marathukuma maheagwo kindu at least muicoini wa mweri, ni undu wo

menyereri niundu wa andu acio akuru tondu ni makeretwo magitungata bururi mahinda maingi riria mari na hinya. Niwega muno

ni guthikiriria.

Jane Wanjiru: Thank you very much. Ni ndarumaga uringi. Ndarugama nigetha ndume sister Margaret tondu niaguthii

Conference. Sister Margaret ni ndingiguthaitha muno ati wona wathii urie thirikari itu, iria igukorwo kuo kana no igie na

Instutitions cia ciana iria cia ndigwa na iria destitute. Yarimwe ni uguo, iki-fund organisations iria ikoragwo na ciana icio.

Noguo kwendaga gugutuma. Thank you very much.

Mr. Nyumu: Ciuria tugukinyia hau, nigetha nake Commissioner one time. Maundu maya matiiri kundu mathiirite. Katiba ino

tugutigirwo guku, tumiariririe nginya mweri 28 riria gugathiwo National Constitutional Conference. Kwoguo mundu uri na kiuria

no tuguthii na mbere tuki-discuss-aga. Thank you.

Charles Ndambi: Ningatho niundu wa kunjitikiria njurie kiuria kiria ndirenda kuria, mbere njitagwo Charles Ndambi kuma

Kaheti. Haria ndirenda kuria ri, ni thiini wa guku andu a Mukurweini handu haha ndirona ta hari haragweteka biu, (inaudible) na

mbeca igithii, na angirwo Commissioner okite haha nigetha atwirie mathina maria mari na andu, guku gutiri hindi andu mangihota

gukorwo mariathaka biu nginya miri angikorwo tukinyiriire handu haha ndirathii kugweta. Handu haha twatunyirwo mbeca cia

thiire, na gikorwo twi na mathiire manene muno thiini wa masociety, onakorwo tiguku gwiki, mbeca igithii, andu matigwo na

ma-loan. Mbeca icio ciathire itiateithirie andu kuriha ma-loan, ciathire uguo. Riu murimu uyu-ri, gutiagiire mundu ungiaririria

athii arugamie interest mbeca ya icio itige guciara, riu iguthii na mbere ona guciira. Mundu ucio athiaga ona mbere na

kuhinyiririkira, agateithiririo nuu tondu mbeca icio itikiigwikaga? Riu mundu ucio angikorwo Commissioners okite guku atwirie

urua angeteithia andu aria mena thina, ucio ni thiina umwe uhinyiriiri andu aria mari guku ati onako mawega no mekwo, gutiiri

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undu ungi uteithagia andu gukira kahua tondu niko gathomithagia nginya ciana. Kwoguo hau tugerio guteithiririo. Kiiuria giakwa

kiria kinene kiuma kiu.

Mr. Nyumu: Bwana Commissioner, riu nguciiria kamweke gaka ni gaku, nigetha, okey…

Titus Maina: Ngwiciria nii ona ndigutinda kikiaria muno tondu document ino ni togukorwo nayo thiku ta mirongo iri kwoguo

maundu maria maingi ndinamo ni ngumanengera district delegates maria ngirorete ngona matiagiriire gukorwo mari ho kana

maria twoigire na matikiri ho. However, hari kaundu kamwe ngwendaga kuuga na gatikiri karoigwo. Kamwe ni ati, thiini wa

preamble, kuria kuingi twathiire ni twathiire ikundi guku Mukurweini, ni ndonire andu makienda I capture struggle iria twari nayo

ya independence niundu wa kuhe gitio andu aria maruiriire bururi uyu. Yet ndarora thiini wa preamble that element is not

captured. Kwoguo preamble ino no nyende I modify-wo I include ka element ka reognition ya andu aria maturuireire.

Kaundu karia kangi ngwendaga kuuga ni gukena niundu wa system ino ira adopt-irwo ya mixed member Constitution system,

tondu nitukoretwo tukihinyiririo Bunge muno niundu wa political, gerry mandering kana uria andu makoretwo magithonderwo

constituency nanjira yo ukora. Tukahotagwo ona twina kura nyingi muno. Kau ni kaundu kamwe kangenetie muno. Ka muico

biu, ona karia gatuma njuge ni ngwenda kwaria ndirenda kumwira inyue participants ati, Constitution ino ri no I declare-ire

proposal, kaa no yugire proposal no kumi actualise nigetha Constitution ino irute wira thiini wa miturire itu ri, no nginya

kungirwo kwi na change of attitude hari ithui enyewe. Tondu tariu haha niturauga ni tukwenda atongoria ega, atongoria athomu,

na maguturutira wira, no ithui angikorwo tuguthura atongoira mikora ri, ni kuri change igokorwo irikwo? This is a challenge to

you. As much as we would want a new Constitution, we also need a change of attitude. Twathii guthurana, kuu guothe turauga

ni tukwenda guthurana no nginya tukurwo twina change; nigetha andu aria tuguthura onaithui tukorwo tu change-itie. Tondu

twoiga tutikwenda mahaki, nawe niurathii ukaha mundu, na haha tukiaria Constitution-ini ni ugire tutikwenda mahaki makorwo

makiruta wira thiini wa magoti na macukuru na maundu mari mangi, no still we niurathii na mbere na kuhaka mundu kana

kwenda ihaki ukorwo ni uraruta wira. We will not be achieving anything. Kogwo this is a challenge to all of us in Kenya.

Tuchenjie attitude ciitu akorwo niturenda a new beginning.

Mr. Nyumu: Ngwiciria riu no kahinda ga Commissioner nigetha ahote gututariria ikinya riu ringi.

Com. Dr. Githu: Ni ngatho niundu wa maoni macio manyu mwaruta na no mworia ciuria. Ndikugeria gucokia ciothe tondu

imwe ona nii ndiri na anja yacio, no imwe ni ngugeria.

Andu aria magathii kumurugamirira, twinao haha nimarugame nigetha mumone. Nigetha matua kuuma nja ri, twi na iri haha,

umwe nda noka no acio ni maiganite. Kwoguo mundu ukuritie mungimona ha, ambai mumonere haha mukiuma nja ni mugugithii

mukimaheaga uhoro. (end of tape some information not recorded)

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Tweherie andu a union ho tuige o athuri na atumia aria marutite wira wa bururi nao gutiiri kindu makwiethera. Twagikiuria kana

Katiba ina maundu ma aruti a wira ina maingi muno muno hau. Na ndiu kana no njoe ndagika imwe, nyonererie muthuri ucio

ukuritie kiuria kiu. Ungiroroa mwena wa chapter five, bill of rights; ni ukuona he undu ugwetetwo ho uhoro wa freedom of

trade, occupation and profession, 53 na 48 freedom of association. Na ciothe irugamiriire mundu wothe ungienda kuingira

kiama kana ndini kana guthondeka trade union yake, eke uguo hatari mundu ukumuhe thina.

Undu ucio ungi, he mundu woria githomo kia MP na kia President kiho. President turoigire no nginya agakorwo ena degree, na

MP agakorwo ina githomo kia form four, na President na Vice President hamwe. No he mundu ucokire oria tukaga kuria

Prime Minister niki nake na akiri ona wira munene. Nakiu ni kuiria kiega nani ndandika handu.

Provincial council irithuragwo atia? Irithuragwo, Provincial council aria mariakaraga kuo ni aria tuthurute. Nima governor ma

district mariikaraga kanju ini ya province. Kwoguo mariumaga naku? Na district.

Andu kuragwo, hukumu ya kifo, Niguo tumitaga na Kiswahili. Constitution ino yugite andu matige kuragwo. Andu aingi

maugaga twarega kuraga muicii umenye ni miitu ikuingiha. No twathiururuka Kenya yothe twambire kumaka ni kumenya

Kenya gutiri kworagwo mundu kuma 1993. Maihuiri njera marabuthira kuu. No muici riria oka kwa mundu mucii, akoragwo

akiira aga gukuraga we, ni ugathii kuruta uira igotiini nigetha urogwo. Agatiga akuraga. Twathikiriria andu a Kenya marauga ni

matiganwo nao, mundu uria weka waganu wa muthemba ucio, uhohwo maica aikare kuu. No atige kuragwo thakame yake

itweherere. Uguo niguo turaiguire andu aingi makiuga. Mundu wothe wi njera na timurage riu, Constitution yoka ndakoragwo.

Egutura kuu. Ni ndaigua handu hau hatina mukenia, murenda andu moragwo. Mukwenda atia? Muririkane unaria mekwo

matuiri kuo matiri moragwo. Haya ni mugutuma delegate.

He mundu ungi woria atiriri, atumia turauga maingihe thiini wa thirikari, wa legico, na kuria kungi, u kuria andu matendete atumia

magiathana? Wira wa Constitution, ni kuruta andu nginya mitugo mieru. Akorwo mutugo uria mwega ni wa democracy, ona

Constitution igathomithia andu democracy. Kuria gwothe tuthiite tutire twaigua kundu, tiga na kundu nakuu twiragwo kwi ndini

imwe itendaga atumia makirugama mbere ya muingi kwaria ri, haha na githi atumia matiaritie wega muno kuma ruciini. Ithui

twina thina?

Response: Aca.

Com. Dr. Githu: Guku tutiri twakorwo na thiina. O mundu na kihoto giake. Kana nikia muthuri, kana ni kia mutumia, mundu

wina kihoto, ina kihoto. Uria utari ndari. Riu andu acio angi nao ri, ithuii niithuii akumakuriria tuthii mbere. Kana mukwenda

matukururie tucoke thutha?

Response: Aca.

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Com. Dr. Githu: I hau. Haya. Andu a ngathiti, mena section yao. Yugite mundu wa ngathiti, maundu maria arandika, maundu

maria arahe muingi, ndakaingirirwo, ndakanyitwo wa ofisi yake ndikaingirwo ni thigari, na maundu maingi mehau. Kwoguo

mundu uria uririe kiu, kiu kiho nikorore. Machifu, na DO, na Subchief, na PC, wira wao niurathirire. Kana mukwenda

macokio.

Audience: Aca.

Com. Muigai: Riu tondu wira wao niurathirire. Na tithui turaugire ni inyui muraugire ati matarirwo o mundu ciake, ciake na

ndagatunywo. Chifu utarakinyitie miaka ya retire ri, twanirira issue iria tukwanirira ri, angienda kurugama ta andu aria angi ri,

githi totumwitikirie. Githi ti miti yake igatua ciira. No chifu turimuhiraga, na riu haha niho njagiriirwo ni gutariria. Watho

wathirikari ya district, nduri haha thiini. Tutiire tura wikira haha, na ndugwikirwo haha tondu tukianjiriria ni ndimwirire ati he

maundu mekagirwo laws of Kenya. He watho riu turathondeka tondu mutiri murakinyita, turawita, the District Administration

Act. Iyo riu niyo iguthondeka, itariirie wega muno uria ithurano cia district iri kagwo ma officer ma district ni ariku acio

tugwitaga district education officer, district health officer, acio othe, micaara yao irithondekagwo atia, maririhagwo atia,

turiunganagia magoti ma district atia, na mundu aririhagira ku, na maundu mau mothe.

Nakuria district iri nikuo turituaga uhoro wa icagi nacio. Tukauga sublocation level, ithurano irikagwo noguo, tondu andu aria

mararuta wira thiini wa village council ri, maririhagwo nu? Village niui ndiri na mbeca. Ino tureta village council, gutiiri mbeca

kuu. Tondu Village Council ndiri na hinya wa kungania igoti. Igoti ririumaga ku? District. Kwoguo district niyo iriugaga athuri

a gicagi, kanju ya thurwo, mucara wao uigana ona, marecamaniga kuna, ngari ya kumatwara mucemanio iriumaga kuna, na

maundu mau mothe nikuu mari. Kwoguo hau mweterere hanini tondu ciuria imwe iria mworia, na nicia bata muno, niciohoro

ucio wa district administration Act na niho uhoro wothe ugokorwo uri. Na nikuo riu uhoro wa qualifications tondu hari andu

moria, athuri aya marirumaga githurano gia gicagi mundu atari no uria arendwo akorwo na guo? Kana niu kwandika Gikuyu,

kana Kiswahili, kana ki.

He muthuri wauga ma MP maya turathondeka ni maingi muno. O nake e na point. Hau nitukurora oringi. Auga andu aria

turenda kunyihia tutinyihitie kuigana.

Mundu ungi auga ati, Prime Minister niagirirwo gukorwo ina githomo kia President. Kiu nindaigua uria aroiga. He undu umwe

mugeete, na ucio ni undu wa magegania no niundu wa bata. Kuuma ira nginya umuthi, turathii kundu tukerwo ni andu ati uhoro

wa ndini andu kuheo haki ya mundu gukorwo na ndini yake ni undu mwega. No ndini nayo ndikarekwo ikire haria ikwanjia

guthumbura andu niundu wa andu kuhuthira ndini gwika maundu matari maki? Uhoro ucio tuukuite muno kuma ira. Nani

turawaindikire. Ona tungiuriu tuge undu umwe uria muritu muno tuigwite, tucokie ucio niumwe. Kwoguo pointi iyo ona

turakiumire nayo ira, kuria turakiumire Karatina. Iyo nitugucokia.

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Pointi ingi mwaruta, ona ningi noturamiuguire ira na ni ya bata ni ati nyamu ino tureta preamble, ithondekwo wega undu andu

aria maruire wiathi wa bururi uyu kuma hindi ya mau mau nginya haria tukinyite, metherwo handu nao magetwo. O neyo no

tugucokia.

He mundu woria nyamu ino kana yandikitwo ni outsider, kaa ni Muthungu. Hau ndimwonete ucio. Maundu maingi haha hakuhi

mothe nimaria mwatwirire. Na mamwe turagithii tukauga hindi iyo maugaga uguo mendaga uguo. Tugagicenjia hanini. Tariu gwi

kundu mwatirire atiriri, tui, tukiona hau tutigwikira, tutingikira o uria murauga. Kumwe murauga undu mwega, no undu ucio

ndungihoteka. Tariu mwatwiririre atiriri, muthuri utari na mutumia ndagatwike President. Hai ni horu? no niui ona mundu no

akuirwo ni mutumia wake nauge ndangwenda kuhikania na akorwo ni mundu ungitongoria muingi. Riu tukiugua ni mwoiga wega

no tutigwikira iyo. Ni wanyita. Riu kwi maundu maingi mega mwoigire no twathii tugekira balanced.

Tariu onakuu, gwi kundu twathiire nakuu North Eastern na kuria kungi tukerwo, eheriai mutikandike mutumia niariaragia mbere

ya andu, tugakimera ni twaigwa uria wauga no uguo wauga tutingiandika tondu twikaga atia? No nginya tuthii na mbere na

tigucoka na thutha. Na maundu mangi maingi.

Twathire kundu kungi tukirwo atiriri, ciana cia airitu, citi kanagairwo mugunda. Ona kungikorwo kuonekete atia. Tugigithikirira

tukiuga atiriri, uguo tiwega tondu wariri, ciana icio ciana iria maciarite ri, githi to ciitu? Mwana ucio aga handu eguikara

mugundaini ri, haria araumira kambi kuhura andu, niarahura. Githi to ithui? Riu kwi hindi mundu aitaga akionoria. Maundu mau

mothe tugithikiriria. Maria mangihoteka tukiandika, maria matangihoteka tugika atia? Tukihingira mucemani witu hau tondu

nitwa tindania wega.

Ningucokia giaku. We na muthuri uria ungu uririe gia ciira tukurwaria haria nja. Ngwendaga okuga atiriri, muririkane atiriri,

member wanyu wa Parliament, mujumbe wanyu, ni member wa National Conference. Kwoguo tiga andu aria ndamwonia haha

atatu, mumenye mumember wanyu ni wakaigana? Ni wakana. Nake ri, mungienda kumutuma no undu mumwire ithuii turi andu

a Constituency ino ri, undu uyu nituraigua wi muritu muno ri, nake no eke atia? Riu mutigwo na wega na tugwetha mutumia

umwe kana muthuri umwe, coordinator atuhoere, tuhinge geikaro giki.

Mr. Nyumu: (inaudible) uguo nikuga ati ni mura support kana ni muranyita mbaru, Katiba ino na ati ni muri tayari kumiruiriria

nginya tukamiona niakinya muico. Itanoria muthuri umwe atuhothie, ningwenda kufafanua maundu meri. Wambere njuge ati, ni

turi wafisi kuria Nyeri Ruring’u, na mundu wothe ungikorwo no undu no akarehe kuu gwa kanju. Wa keri, ndimwire andu acio

mwonire haha, o location ni tukoragwo na mundu umwe, na ngwiciria hihi wega ni ngagweta location mundu akarugama tondu

ni andu mumoi. Nigetha ungikorwo wi na kaundu ungienda gagatwarwo National Conference, mukamutwarira.

Nyambiririe na Muhito. Ni muthuri ucio ugwitwo Mutahi. Gakindu, twina Mrs Maina. Kuria gugwitwo Gikondi, ni mutumia

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ucio ugwitwo Mrs Ngari, ni mumui andu a Gikondi kana. Nakuria Thanu, he Muthuri wi haha witagwo Mr. Karuoya. Ni

mumui. Mundu ari nakaundu ndagutinda agithii kundu kuraihu.

Turi na location ingi igitwo, ina haria nja niwe ukumwandikaga. Okimemu. No mumwone na ndeto ni igukinya. Gitune,

Reverend Mwangi, niwe ucio, na Githi, Mrs Kimaru na twina Councillor witu. Mjumbe uria utanoka ni Councillor wa kuria

Othaya etagwo Waithanji. Na kugwo mungienda atwarirwo, twina councillor witu haha, ugwitwo Maina. Na ndeto

mungutwahara hari wafisi ya DC, any time ni igukinya hari stage ya guthii Nairobi. Muthuri uria murona iakarite haria, ni

delegate turathurire kuria Nyeri. Riria turathuranaga na ni Councillor mathurire. Itagwo Dominic Muraguri Nderi. Nake

akoragwo kuria Nyeri. Ngwiciria atanathii hihi niagukimuhe nginya namba cia thimu. Ningi mungienda kumwona muke ukiria

wafisi Ruring’u. Ndeto niikumukinyira. Mutumia ucio nake ungi niakumugeithitie aria matanamwona. Etagwo Margaret

Nyathoroga. Onake mungienda, mundehere ndeto, kwao ni Nyeri, niukumukinyira. Kana muturwarire Councillor haria, kana

representative wanyu wa location, ndeto ni igukinya. Hau nitwa iguanira?

Response: ii

Na mabuku ni mariauka no mundu utari, ndeto ici cikaraga ikiandikagwo ngathitiini. Ni ciaragio ni kameme maita maingi muno,

ungihingurira Citizen, Coro, Kameme, TV ciothe ikoragwo o ikiario. Nariu ni twamutuma onainyui kuria guothe mugithii, bururi

wothe reke utwike wa Katiba. Na karuri kau matikarute nginya riria tukagia naki? Na Katiba njeru. Asante sana. Riu ninguria

Councillor Maina acokerie Commissioner ngatho, tucoke tuhoithio ni muthuri uyu wa Baptist. Ugire ritwa riaku niririku,

Mutungatiri, turikie mucemanio witu.

Councillor Maina: Niwega Co-ordinator. Ngwenda kwamba gucokia ngatho hari inyui mwitikirite guka. Tondu maundu

maya hari andu maugaga ni mabururi, kana nima ateti, makaga gukorwo mari concerned. Na ithuothe tukir stake holders hari

maundu maya ma Katiba. Kwoguo ngatho cia mbere ni kuri inyui mwitikirire guka. Muthii muhunjiria andu aria angi mari naku

mucii, aria matanona kamweke gagugiuka.

Ngatho iria ingi gucokia ni kuri my fellow committee members, acio tukurugamite. Tondu tutwikaga ni turutite wira mwega.

Kuri Constituency gukoragwo na mbara, magitwika matiraruta wira, kaa mathurirwo atia. Guku tukoretwo na operations

smooth muno.

Mundu wa muico gucokeria ngatho ni Dr. Githu Muigai. Na ningwendaga kugweta ati Commission ino ni kuri ihinda

irakoragwo ina ngucanio, ningwenda ku mention haha ati Dr. Githu Muigai, ni umwe wa aria marendaga wira wa Constitution

ino uthii nginya urike ndagika ya muico. Tondu ni tuthomete ngathitiini tukaigua kuri andu eri kana atatu makoretwo makigucia

aria angi na thutha. Kwoguo ningwendaga gu-take this special opportunity gucokeria Githu Muigai ngatho, niundu wagukorwo

a take-ite mandate yake seriously, iria aheirwo ni Kenyans guthondeka a new future ya bururi uyu thiini wa Constitution Review

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ino tukoretwo tukiri nayo. Muico nitukihoere ndeto ici. Cituike ciagukinyanira tondu ni mui mugathe Moi ndarenda ndeto ici

ithii na mbere. Nakugwo ni mui ati gains iria ciothe tu-make-ite in the area of democracy ciothe nikuhuraniirwo ihuranirwo ti

kuheanwo. Niguo kana tiguo? Kwoguo ingenda ithuothe tukorwo turi jeshi cia kurumirira uhoro uyu, tondu ninjui ndangicienda

ndeto ici niundiu woria akoretwo agiteithika na old Constitution order, kana toguo twakirwo, ka ribbon gaka gaikarage haha,

gakwa kari haha mutigakiurie ndiragathiriria na ndiri nako. Nigetha mundu agakuria ka ribbon kau kaugite atia. Ukamwira nia

atia kaugite. Kaa tiguo? Ni thengiu muno inyuothe. Reke njokeri Coordinator nigetha tukihoithio. Thank you.

Rev. Nduati: Rekei turugame. Ithe witu na Muthamaki munene ni tugukugatha, gitumi niundu kihinda giatene, na twarora

history nducenjagia, nani uthiaga uteithitie andu aku, mbere nitugugucokeria ngatho, niundu niutukinyaniirie uhoro uyu, nariu

kiriro giothe kia andu a Kenya gigagukinyira matuini, nariu ugacoka ugatwika wagutuigua maithori. Nitugucokia ngatho niundu

wa Commission iria ituthondekeire Constitution ino. Nariu ihoya ritu uta uria twa maheire maoni, niati Ngai wa muyo uri hamwe

naithui, otogwo ukoretwo na Commission, onamari hatikaini. Na makauma na document ino riu turathoma muthenya wa

umuthi. Ngai munene na mwiki wega amukira ngatho ciitu, na kuria guothe tuthiite tuhatiriirio ni uria muru thiini wa riatwa riaku

Jesu Kristu, tuhotanire. Nariu muthiani, ugoci na riri nowe igucokerera. Nariu niundu ucio nitukuhoya niundu wa andu aria angi

marutite mawoni mwanya mwanya, na maoni macio Ngai wa muoyo ni maria magutongoria bururi witu wa Kenya mahindaini

maya turi, rucio na mahinda meguka. Ni twahoya uteithio kuma kuri we, gitumi niundu ndukitutiganiria. Na riu ihoya ritu riri

hamwe niati Ngai wa muoyo mawega mothe maria moritio ni ndungata ciaku niuguthii utohotaniire. Na riu tondu democracy

yugaga, ni balance ya all the social forces. It is our prayer that the majority shall lead the country and the minority will be

listened to. Niundu ucio Ngai wa muoyo, twaranaga naguo nigetha tugie na common ground, na nigetha tuiguae turi bururi witu

tutaguikio mwena na mwena. Na riu ihinda riri tukiuma, ni tukuhoya andu aria mokite na mitokaa, Murungu wa muoyo

umakinyii kuria umarutire. Aria maguthii na miithikiri, taguo, naigui tuguthii na maguru Ngai wa muoyo nitwahoya tha ciathabari.

Nariu wa tukinyia o mundu witu, arigia na ihinda ria gucokia ngatho. Ngai wa muoyo ni thengiu ni tondu uri mwena witu.

Ndugitikirie mucukani atuhote, ni tondu ori ori ndangihota niwa kuananga. Nawe Kristu wokire nigetha tugii na muoyo natugii

naguo kuna. Na part imwe nikugia na Constitution irugamiriire mundu wothe wi Kenya, mundu wothe ugaciarwa Kenya, oro

ona mugeni ungicoka guka bururiini uyu. Niundu ucio nitwacoka ngatho. Na Commission haria itigaritie Murungu munene,

nitwahoya ugitiri kuma kuri we, omagitire mwena na mwena; nacio thu cikare irindorie niundu wawagiriru wogoci wa ritwa

riaku. Maya manini twahoya twitikitie ni watuigwa, nakuria tutana hoya Ngai wa muyo, no ugututeithia. Owegaini no utugiini

wa Mwathani witu Jesu Kristu. Amen. Wega wa Mwathani with Jesu Kristu, na wendani waku Ngai, nayo ngwataniro ya

Roho Mutheru, iroikara na ithui na hingo ciothe, Amen.

Meeting ended at 4.00 p.m.

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