(COMMODITY) TASK GROUP MINUTES - Performance Review...

NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTINGAPRIL 2007

UNCONFIRMED MINUTES APRIL 24-26, 2007

NEWPORT BAY CLUB - DISNEYLAND RESORT PARISMARNER-LA-VALLEE, FRANCE

These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 AM (CLOSED MEETING)

1.0 OPENING COMMENTS

1.1 Call to Order/Quorum Check

The meeting was called to order by Phil Keown. A quorum was established with the user members defined below.

An attendance roster was distributed for all to sign. The following attendance list includes all present during the CLOSED and OPEN meetings on Tuesday – Thursday (04/24-26/07):

ATTENDANCE

User Members Present:

Name Company

Chuck Alvarez Goodrich Aerostructures GroupStephen Bauer Northrop GrummanAlain Bouchet SAFRAN Group**Massimo Colombo Avio S.p.ARichard Costantino Goodrich AerostructuresChris Dootson BAE Systems (Air Systems)Yves Esquerre Airbus SASRick Friesen Hawker-BeechcraftGreg Hall Cessna Aircraft CompanyTrevor Hiscox Airbus SASRobert Hogan Honeywell AerospaceThierry Jacques EurocopterMilan Jakubec Honeywell Aerospace OlomoucPhil Keown GE AviationMarc-André Lefebvre Héroux DevtekRon Levi Lockheed Martin CorporationGilles Louazel Honeywell AerospaceMike Mitchell Hamilton SundstrandManfred Podlech MTU Aero Engines GmbHDoug Prenovost Northrop Grumman CorporationBob Reynolds The Boeing CompanyGreg Robinson Eaton Carl Roche Textron SystemsRon Rodgers GE AviationDavide Salerno Alenia Aeronautica S.p.ABobby Scott Bombardier Inc.

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Michael Shiplett Vought Aircraft Industries Inc.Andy Statham Rolls-Royce plcD. Scott Sullivan Honeywell AerospacePete Torelli The Boeing CompanyDavid Vaughn Spirit AeroSystemsThierry Wartel Latecoere

Supplier Participants:

Name Company

Garth Appel Denel Saab AerostructuresBoguslaw Bac WSK “PZL-Rzeszow” S.A.*Andy Bakewell E M Inspection Co LtdMario Franco Bianchi BytestAntonio Bonetto SKF Avio*N. David Campbell West Penn Testing Group*Robert Custer AAA Plating & Inspection IncPatrick DuBosc Babb CoFabienne DuFour Babb CoGreg Ferrari Robert Stuart PlcDavid Garnier Metalscan*Robert Gifford Praxair Surface TechnologiesPaul Johnson Firth Rixson Forgings Ltd*Edward Macejak Carpenter Technology CorpCecile Mayau Aubert & Duval IssoireYvon Millet Timet SavoieSeiji Noda Ishikawajima Harima Heavy Industries Co LtdVeronique Paillares Ratier Figeac*Alan Parsons Bodycote Radiography – DudleyJonathan Pugh Bodycote Radiography - Dudley*Grant Reynolds Air Capitol Plating Inc.Alex Ridley Safe Air LimitedBen Smith Maycast-Nokes Precision Engineering Ltd*Ryan Soule Alcoa Power and Propulsion – HowmetDariusz Stepien Ladish CoDave Sullivan Wyman-Gordon*Michael Watts GKN Aerospace Services*Gary White Orbit Industries Inc

* Supplier Voting Member ** Associate

PRI Staff:

Mark AubeleJim Bennett

2.0 TASK GROUP REGULAR BUSINESS ITEMS

Due to the number of new representatives in attendance, the new member orientation presentation was given.

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No requests for accreditation extensions.

Open Supplier Advisories # 952, 995, 1024, 1025 & 1041 were discussed.

Motion made by Dave Vaughn & seconded by Scott Sullivan to upgrade advisory #1041 to Level 2.Motion Carried Unanimously

Ron Levi commented on one audit that was conducted by the User member. Supplier was removed from the User member approved supplier list.

Nadcap User NDT Oversight Audits – Template was presented to the Task Group to provide a consistent approach to documenting results. Template is similar to the Chemical Processing version.

ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to make template available in Public Documents via eAuditNet.

Discussion ensued on how to request to observe an NDT audit. For the benefit of new members Phil Keown advised on protocol for observing audits (contacting PRI Scheduling).

Discussion on information provided by the supplier (through Scope Verification with the auditor) regarding their customer base versus those they are actively performing work for.

Motion made by David Vaughn and seconded by Bob Hogan. If supplier does not identify the correct checklist supplemental criteria for their customer base, the supplier is responsible for cost to rectify.Motion carried Unanimously

Further discussion ensued regarding how to address accreditation (when there is an open audit report package in the system) for those suppliers having not identified the correct checklist supplemental criteria for their customer base, through Scope Verification.

Motion made by Ron Rogers and seconded by Pete Torelli. Where audit scope does not cover all applicable supplemental checklist criteria, the audit report package will be accredited in the usual manner. The supplier will then be required to schedule a scope extension audit with PRI to address the supplemental checklist criteria that was not addressed during the original audit. This will be reviewed at October 07 meeting.Motion carried by Majority

ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to make information available for review during the October 07 meeting.

Auditor Advisory # 07-02 was reviewed. The advisory provides clarification on Scope Verification.

Auditor Advisory # 07-03 was reviewed. The advisory provides clarification on applicability of supplementary criteria.

Auditor Advisory # 07-04 was reviewed. The advisory provides clarification of baseline checklist criteria for calibration.

Auditors: The status of candidates for auditors and the current auditor distribution discussed (Presentation Foil taken from Staff Report).

Volunteers were requested for auditor interview on May 2nd.

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Discussions ensued regarding telephone versus face to face interviews especially with regard to those whose first language is not English.

3.0 TECHNICAL ISSUES

Refer to Wednesday PM and Thursday Closed session meetings for technical issues.

4.0 NEW BUSINESS

Discussions ensued regarding handling/reviewing of Proprietary, Confidential & ITAR/EAR data. Chairperson Keown agreed to address at the Planning and Operations meeting.

Refer to Thursday Closed session for additional new business items.

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 PM (OPEN MEETING)

Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes.

Motion Made by Pete Torelli and seconded by Ron Rogers to accept the January 2007 minutes.Motion Carried Unanimously

Supplier Voting Members Andy Bakewell, N.David Campbell, Robert Custer, Bob Gifford, Grant Reynolds, Ryan Soule, Mike Watts & Gary White were identified.

5.0 PRI REPORT

The Staff Report was presented.

The NMC metrics were presented.

The RAIL (Rolling Action Items List) was presented.

6.0 SUPPLIER REPORT / DISCUSSION

Gary White presented a Supplier Support Committee Update.

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Motion made by Gary White and seconded by Mike Mitchell to approve Ed Macejak as a Supplier Voting memberMotion carried Unanimously

Motion made by Andy Bakewell and seconded by Andy Statham to approve Alan Parsons as a Supplier Voting member

Motion carried Unanimously

Gary White/Andy Bakewell requested an information database to address areas of clarification and issues identified prior to, during or following an audit. A suggestion was made to utilize a system similar to the RAIL system

ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to create a database to address such issues as and when information arrives from various sources.

Andy Bakewell brought up general issues re calibration and supplier flow down template. The template is still at the discussion stage by all task groups and in its infancy. It will be forwarded to the IAQG (International Aerospace Quality Group).

Chairperson Keown encouraged suppliers to attend the supplier support committee meeting on 24th April between 6pm & 8pm.

Chairperson Keown also promoted the newsletter as a useful communication tool; all contributions will be gladly received.

7.0 NTGOP-001, APPENDIX I REVIEW

NTGOP-001 was revised and approved at the January meeting and subsequently issued, therefore it will not be reviewed this meeting.

8.0 PRESENTATION

Bob Potter of ASNT (American Society of Non Destructive Testing) gave a presentation on the “MERITS OF AEROSPACE SECTOR CERTIFICATION”. Considerable discussion ensued around the proposal. Bob indicated if there was interest a pilot program could be set up.

9.0 NEW BUSINESS

No new business

10.0 AUDIT HANDBOOK REVIEW

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Comments to the ballot on amendments to information in the handbook were discussed.

Motion made by Ron Rogers and seconded by David Vaughn to accept amendments.Motion carried Unanimously

ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to make changes accordingly and issue handbook

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 (OPEN MEETING)

10.0 AUDIT HANDBOOK REVIEW

Proposed revisions to HB7114 were discussed. These proposals are following observations that have been made since implementation of the baselines.

The chairperson stated that Handbooks belong to the Task Group; therefore balloting to all groups is not necessary and creates time delays in approving and releasing documents.

Motion made by Andy Statham and seconded by Bob Hogan that Staff Engineers will collect comments regarding Handbooks two weeks prior to the Task Group Meetings and distribute. Those comments will be discussed at the Task Group Meetings, finalized at the end of each meeting and the Handbook updated.Motion Carried Unanimously.

ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to collect changes and add to a comment sheet for distribution at least two weeks prior to the July meeting.

Staff Engineer Aubele indicated that some fastener suppliers do not use white light to evaluate indications as required by AC7114/2 (note: AC7114/1 does not have the requirement), as those fasteners with indications are sent to their laboratories for disposition. It was decided to table this item until the July meeting.

ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to ensure this is addressed during the July meeting.

Motion made by Ed Macejak and seconded by David Vaughn to adjourn.Motion Carried Unanimously

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 (CLOSED MEETING)

11.0NANDTB – UK & FRANCE

Jon Biddulph gave an updated presentation on the UK NandtB including its approach to new technologies.

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Patrick Auge and Gerard Mangenet gave a presentation on the French NANDTB.

Chairperson Keown gave an update on the Chinese NANDTB. All personnel have to be trained and certified in a similar method to the UK model (refer to Jon Biddulph’s presentation).

Discussion ensued regarding NANDTB’s globally.

3.0 TECHNICAL ISSUES (cont’d from Tuesday)

Discussion was re-opened regarding the system performance check. Use of the solvent removable method of fluorescent penetrant inspection.

Motion made by Chuck Alvarez and seconded by Ron Rogers to submit the use of Method C portable systems and the system performance check to the Penetrant Method Group.Motion carried Unanimously

Motion made by Andy Statham and seconded by Trevor Hiscox to adjourn.Motion carried Unanimously

THURSDAY, APRIL 26, 2007 (CLOSED MEETING)

2.0 TASK GROUP REGULAR BUSINESS ITEMS (cont’d from Tuesday)

Staff Engineer Bennett presented the requirements for Task Group member’s approval to review audits for the benefit of new members.

Staff Engineer Bennett requested a 30 day accreditation extension for audit #117860

Motion made by Ron Rogers and seconded by David Vaughn to grant a 30 day accreditation extension to audit #117860.Motion carried Unanimously.

4.0 NEW BUSINESS (cont’d from Tuesday)

Alain Bouchet reported on the proposed revision to NAS 410/EN4179. Discussion ensued. Any comments are to be sent to AIA for AIA members or to Chairperson Keown.

Staff Engineer Bennett reminded members that e mails sent to them from PRI are confidential and are not to be distributed to other personnel.

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Discussions held regarding availability and ability of reviewing drawings for compliance jobs. Test houses typically will not have copies. No consensus.

Staff Engineer Aubele requested clarification on accredited companies who move equipment to new premises. Do we require such companies to be re-audited? Providing that the same personnel and system doesn’t change then no re-audit required.

Changes made to NIP 6-01Appendix NDT were reviewed.

Motion made by Pete Torelli and seconded by Trevor Hiscox to accept changes.Motion carried Unanimously. Staff Engineer Aubele highlighted the process of failure appeals and the overturning of audit report packages.

The use of Prime Matrix for scope verification was discussed.

Staff Engineer Bennett presented the proposed changes to NOP-011 App A Failure Criteria. The proposal would implement the formulae in NOP-011.

Motion made by Ron Rogers and seconded by Yves Esquerre to adopt the proposed changes as per the requirements of NOP-011.

Considerable further discussion ensued.

Motion defeated.

Motion made by Bobby Scott and seconded by Bob Reynolds to adopt a stepped approach: For Initial audits a total of 24 NCRs and for Re-accreditations a total of 16 NCRs with no change to the number of Majors.Motion carried 17 votes for 3 against.

ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to modify NOP-011 table to reflect changes to NDT.

Voting Status of all User Members was reviewed and updated as required.

ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to modify attendees guide accordingly.

Chemical Processing presentation on “Cleanliness Verification” was provided by the CP Task Group for review. CP is developing a slash sheet (/5) for this audit and has requested of the NDT Task Group to utilize the NDT auditors to conduct the audits alongside NDT audits.

Motion made by Ron Rogers and seconded by Dave Vaughn to authorize NDT auditors to conduct these additional audits alongside NDT audits. Motion carried 19 votes for 1 against.

An AIA clarification was discussed concerning Level 3 exams when processing hardware.

The new procedure for NDT committees was discussed and it was determined that more information on how the process will work is required.

ACTION ITEM: TG Chair and Vice-Chair with PRI staff to address issues and re-submit to the TG at the July meeting.

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3.0 TECHNICAL ISSUES (cont’d further from Tuesday & Wednesday)

System performance checks when utilizing solvent removable penetrants was reopened following discussions by the Sub Committee.

Motion made by Mike Mitchell and seconded by Bob Hogan to modify the handbook to reflect that the system performance check shall not be required for method solvent removable penetrants when using sealed aerosol containers (Spray Cans). Motion carried 17 votes for 1 against.

Audit #118508 was discussed with the Task Group in regard to an NCR written against the solvent removable process and not conducting a system performance check. Based on the change identified above by the Task Group, the affected supplier is required to provide clarification on the solvent removable process used. If the process is the same as the proposed change, then the Task will agree to closure of the NCR, however the supplier will be expected to address root cause. If a different process is applied, then the NCR still stands.

12.0 AUDITOR TRAINING – OCTOBER

Back to Basics approach implementing interactive training sessions involving the Nadcap User Members, Supplier Voting Members and Auditors. Agreed to use the Method Sub-Committees to identify the training required on the Monday of the July meeting. Suppliers also invited to attend.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to issue Method Subcommittee listing and Phil Keown to write NDT Newsletter article inviting supplier participation.

13.0 USER MEMBER SUPPLEMENTS

New comments and proposed changes since the last ballot were presented. Task Group to submit any other requirements into the supplements before ballot is issued. When changes have been approved the supplements will be issued and made available on eAuditNet. 90 day implementation will apply.

ACTION ITEM: Task Group to provide modifications / additions to the supplement checklists by May 11th. PRI Staff to issue ballot and address comments accordingly. Method Subcommittee listing and Phil Keown to write NDT Newsletter article inviting supplier participation.

14.0 SUPPLEMENT BALLOT COMMENT RESOLUTION

Staff presented the results of the supplement ballots to the NMC and to the Task Group. Both were approved.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to issue documents on eAuditNet. 90 day implementation will apply.

15.0 SUPPLEMENT TECHNICAL ISSUES

Staff engineer reviewed the method of balloting and approving supplements.

16.0 BASELINE IMPLEMENTATION ISSUE

No items discussed

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17.0 AGENDA ITEMS – JULY MEETING

Discussion ensued concerning the Supplier Workshop and changing the venue. It was decided that the Workshop would be suspended until the Task Group determine a need. If another NDT STSTG is introduced, then they may tasked to address such a Workshop. Motion made by Scott Sullivan and seconded by Dave Vaughn to drop the workshop till 2008.Motion carried unanimously.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to investigate other methods of training available or potentially available via electronic methods

Task group agreed with a three day meeting. Monday morning would comprise of an open meeting to address auditor training. Monday afternoon would be closed session to address User Task Group business.Tuesday (all day) will be open session.Wednesday (all day) will be closed session.

5.0 NEW BUSINESS (cont’d from Tuesday & Wednesday)

Agreement was reached regarding audits over 80 days and/or 4 cycles reviewed during the teleconference calls with the Task Group. All such audits where the SE believes additional assistance is not necessary will not be discussed; however they are to be included in the teleconference minutes.

Next Meeting – July 23-27, 2007. Istanbul, Turkey

Motion Made by Bob Hogan and seconded by Ron Rodgers to adjournMotion Carried Unanimously

The meeting was adjourned at 5:10 p.m.

Minutes prepared by: Name Trevor HiscoxEmail trevor.hiscox.com

***** For PRI Staff use only: ******

Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this meeting? (select one)

YES* NO

*If yes, the following information is required:

Documents requiring revision:

Who is responsible: Due date:

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mailto:[email protected]


NIP 6-01 App NDT to be issued.

PRI Staff May 18, 2007

NDT Handbooks to be issued.


NDT Supplemental Checklists to be issued


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