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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt2122230003

1 Dr. Warren Strickland2 930 Franklin Street3 Huntsville, AL 358014 Congressional District 556 Mr. Johnny Johnson

7 1018 54th Street East8 Tuscaloosa, AL 354039 Congressional District 71011 Mr. Raymond Jones, Jr.12 401 Franklin Street

13 Huntsville, AL 3580114 Congressional District 51516 Mr. George Harbin17 1177 Elliott Road18 Gadsden, AL 3590419 Congressional District 420212223

00041 Ms. Robin Nummy2 Alabama Department of Conservation &3 Natural Resources4 64 North Union Street5 Montgomery, AL 3613067 Also Present: Fred Harders

8 Gary Moody9 Corky Pugh10 Allan Andress

11121314151617

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt18192021

222300051 INDEX23 Call to Order .................... 6

4 Invocation ....................... 65 Introduction of Advisory6 Board Members .................... 77 Approval of Minutes of Last8 Meeting .......................... 109 Report by District ............... 11

10 Public Hearing ................... 3511 New Business ..................... 26112 Season and Bag Limits ............ 27313 Selection of Date and Location14 of March, 2008 Meeting ........... 27915 Meeting Adjourned ................ 27916 Certificate Page ................. 2801718 --o0o--1920

21222300061 CONSERVATION BOARD ADVISORY MEETING2 Saturday, February 9, 200834 MR. CHAIRMAN: The February

5 9th, 2008 meeting of the Conservation6 Advisory Board will come to order.7 I would like to welcome

8 everybody to the State Capitol9 Auditorium. The Board is glad that10 you're able to be here today.11 The invocation will be given12 by Mr. Bill Hatley.13 Mr. Hatley.14 MR. HATLEY: Let us pray,

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt15 please.16 If you would, let's pause for17 a moment of silent prayer in memory of18 our troops who are fighting to keep our

19 freedoms as we know them at this time.20 Just a moment, please.21 Our Gracious and Eternal22 Heavenly Father, once again, we come23 before Thy glorious throne begging Thy00071 forgiveness for our many sins.2 We ask in a special way today3 that you would be with all of those who4 have gathered here today who are5 concerned about the conservation and6 preservation of all of the glorious

7 animals that you have placed before us.8 We pray in a special way that9 you would make us better stewards of10 all you have placed in our charge.11 We pray now that you would12 lead, guide, and direct us through the13 days of our lives. We ask this in14 Jesus Christ's name and for his sake.15 Amen16 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,17 Mr. Hatley.

18 For the next order of19 business, I'd like to call Commissioner20 Lawley to introduce the Conservation21 Advisory Board.22 Commissioner.23 COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank00081 you, Dan.2 I'm glad to see the turnout3 here today. This is one of the largest4 crowds that I remember in my tenure

5 here.6 I want to apologize to7 everybody in advance. I have to be in8 Birmingham this afternoon by 3:009 o'clock. So, if we're not through by10 1:00 and you see me leave, just know11 that it's something I have to do or get

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt12 run off from my house by my wife.13 As we usually do, we'll start14 at the end with George Harbin and let15 every member introduce themselves and

16 the district that they represent.17 MR. HARBIN: My name is18 George Harbin. I represent District 4.19 MR. JONES: Raymond Jones. I20 represent District 5.21 MR. JOHNSON: Johnny Johnson,22 District 7.23 DR. STRICKLAND: Warren00091 Strickland, Congressional District 5.2 MR. COLES: Louis Coles,3 District 2.

4 DR. MAY: Wayne May, District5 7.6 DR. SMITH: Gaines Smith,7 Statewide.8 MR. HATLEY: Bill Hatley,9 District 1.10 MR. CHAIRMAN: Dan Moultrie,11 District 6.12 Commissioner, anything else?13 COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: No.14 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,

15 Commissioner.16 COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I will17 say one thing, Dan.18 In light of the number of19 people that want to speak -- normally,20 the first meeting, we give a division21 report from each of the five divisions22 we have in the Department of23 Conservation; but we're going to waive00101 that this year.

2 The division that has regs3 that they would like for the Board to4 consider, they will present those.5 Other than that, that will be the6 extent of their reporting; and that7 should save us some time, also.8 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt9 Are there any corrections to10 the minutes of the May 19th, 200711 Advisory Board Meeting?12 MR. HARBIN: I move they be

13 approved as presented.14 MR. HATLEY: Second.15 MR. CHAIRMAN: We have a16 motion and a second. All in favor?17 THE BOARD: Aye.18 MR. CHAIRMAN: The minutes19 stand approved.20 The next order of business is21 for the members to report by district.22 This is a relatively new program within23 the Advisory Board we put in several0011

1 years ago that allows each district to2 see who their representative is and3 find out if that representative of the4 Board has been working or not in their5 district.6 Starting with Mr. Hatley. I7 know you're on your own today. We know8 you've been working. So why don't you9 tell us what you've been doing.10 Speak into the microphone,11 Mr. Hatley.

12 MR. HATLEY: Most people can13 hear me.14 District 1, for the most15 part, has been relatively quiet as far16 as the hunting is concerned.17 For those of you who don't18 know, District 1 takes in Mobile and19 Baldwin Counties. Most of our deer20 hunting is in the northern part of21 Baldwin County.22 I would like to commend one

23 or two officers in my district.00121 Mr. Clem Cornell, who represents the2 northern part of Baldwin County. He3 did an outstanding job of clearing up4 some poaching issues that we had down5 there.

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt6 Also, in Wilcox County, I7 would like to commend Officer Dan8 (inaudible) for investigating night9 hunting, baiting, and some dog issues

10 we had. He did an outstanding job11 working with our public relations on12 the dog hunting issue.13 I would like to bring up -- I14 would like to commend our Marine15 Resources Division and our Conservation16 Officers.17 For those of you who read the18 paper and watch the national news, we19 had a tragic event occur in our20 district this year. We had an -- I21 won't to say a father. I won't even

22 say an individual. This guy was beyond23 anything I could describe. He dropped00131 four babies off a bridge in our2 district.3 The response of the Marine4 Resources and our Conservation Officers5 and Marine Police -- all of our6 departments did an outstanding job.7 They used our equipment. They used our8 boats. They used our resources, our

9 communications; and they assisted in10 the recovery of all four of those11 children.12 If you guys, while you're13 here, want to hear some bad stories,14 you talk to these two gentlemen sitting15 right down here on the front row and16 talk with Allan Andress about what17 happened under those circumstances with18 that situation.19 That's about it.

20 Mr. Chairman.21 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,22 Mr. Hatley.23 Out of District 2, Louis00141 Coles.2 MR. COLES: Thank you,

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt3 Mr. Chairman.4 This was the first year for5 an alligator season at WF George6 Reserve or at Lake Eufala last August,

7 and it was deemed a success with 148 alligators captured.9 Dove season this past fall in10 District 2 was a normal season. I have11 had no inquiries from my district for12 changing the dove season dates.13 The deer harvest this past14 season started off very slow, due15 mainly to a tremendous acorn crop and16 the tremendous heat that we had and the17 drought, being that the deer were not18 being seen.

19 Some processors reported that20 their numbers were off as much as 30 to21 50 percent, but the numbers increased22 drastically after January 1st.23 Our rut in Southeast Alabama00151 came in this year around January 17th2 and 18th and is still going on. On3 Tuesday of this week, I observed fresh4 scrapes.5 This past deer season was the

6 third season for the Three Points or7 Better on One Side Rule for Barbour8 County. I have had no complaints about9 this from the land owners or hunters in10 Barbour County.11 When this Board passed this12 rule, part of that motion asked the13 Conservation Department to maintain14 harvest data to help this Board be15 better informed to make a decision at16 the end of a five-year period to

17 continue this or to revise it.18 Up to this point, citizens in19 Barbour County have been asked to raise20 the funds to pay part or all for the21 data collections necessary.22 It is my opinion that if this23 is a function of the Conservation

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt00161 Department, then the Conservation2 Department needs to fully fund it.3 Dog deer hunting complaints

4 continue to be heard from not permitted5 counties with officers responding to6 complaints of trespassing, destruction7 of private property, assault, and8 intrusion of dogs on private property.9 Thank you.10 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you11 Mr. Coles.12 Grant Lynch is out with the13 flu today; is that correct?14 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Correct.15 He normally has District 3.

16 District 4 is Mr. George17 Harbin.18 MR. HARBIN: Yes, sir.19 My name is George Harbin. I20 represent District 4. The first thing21 I want to do is say that Commissioner22 Sparks and Commissioner Lawley said23 last meeting time that we were going to00171 run a stay in several northeastern2 counties. It's my understanding that's

3 pretty successful.4 The biggest complaints I have5 is the use of dogs crossing on somebody6 else's property. Other than that,7 everything is relatively quiet.8 Kevin Johnson and his crew9 and Commissioner Lawley should be10 commended about working Fayette County,11 Franklin County, Marion County, and12 Lamar County.13 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,

14 Mr. Harbin.15 District 5, Raymond Jones.16 MR. JONES: I attended a17 meeting recently held by the Department18 on the state of catfish in the19 Tennessee River Basin. It was a very20 interesting study, very well done by

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt21 the Department. That had received a22 good bit of comment from the public.23 Also, Mr. Harbin, we don't0018

1 have any dog deer hunting complaints in2 North Alabama. Warren and I have taken3 care of that.4 For those of you who don't5 know, we don't have dog deer hunting in6 North Alabama.7 There have been several8 things -- we had a very poor acorn crop9 in North Alabama.10 We did have a very intense11 but brief rut, and that tended to12 happen toward the middle of January.

13 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,14 Mr. Jones.15 Dr. Strickland, District 5.16 DR. STRICKLAND: I have to17 agree with Ray. Ray and I both18 represent District 5.19 One of the things that I do20 want to point out is that our21 Conservation Officers were quite busy.22 Again, we had quite a bit of activity23 with regard to poaching and

00191 trespassing.2 If I'm not mistaken, our3 Conservation Officers probably made a4 higher number of arrests than any other5 county in the State of Alabama. They6 were extremely busy.7 I want to take my hat off to8 Joe Lindsey and support from the9 Madison County and Limestone County10 Conservation Officers for the job that

11 they have done. It's hard work and12 it's a dangerous job, and those guys13 really need to be commended for such a14 great job. They are definitely making15 a difference.16 I have to agree with Ray17 again. I had a chance to go by the --

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt18 we have a couple of deer processors19 that are pretty close to my house.20 Normally, you can tell exactly when the21 rut starts because the bucks will start

22 coming in. I'll make a trip down there23 about once a week.00201 One of the things I did2 notice was that the upper end ruts, we3 just were not seeing them in January.4 I think the drought had a pretty big5 effect on the buck harvest season in6 Northern Alabama.7 The Conservation Officer8 normally tells me that in periods of9 extremely dry weather -- and we were in

10 extreme high drought for the last11 couple of years in Northern Alabama --12 it normally affects the very young and13 the older aged class bucks. We didn't14 seem to see the number of older aged15 class bucks.16 Other than that, I have17 nothing else to report. I did get --18 there was one other thing that I wanted19 to bring up.20 I got a lot of very positive

21 reports with regards to the buck limit22 that was imposed, very few negatives.23 Most of the reports have been in favor00211 of having a buck limit.2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Very good.3 Thank you, Dr. Strickland.4 Within District 6, there's5 usually very little that goes on.6 However, two things of note that needs7 to be noted in the state.

8 Yesterday was the grand9 opening of the Guntersville State Park.10 We will have our next meeting at the11 Guntersville State Park.12 Commissioner, I know you may13 want to speak on it. I have not seen14 it. The Commissioner says it's as nice

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt15 as any Five Star resort that's in the16 state.17 Would you like to speak on18 that real quick?

19 COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Mark20 Easterwood is here. It's really a21 facility to be proud of.22 I think our next meeting is23 on March 8th. It's very popular. I00221 know the Governor's office tried to2 call up there and get a retreat lined3 up for the cabinet members, and they4 were not able to get a reservation.5 They're booked for another three6 months. So that's good. That's a good

7 problem.8 I want to congratulate Mark9 and his people on the work they've done10 in the completion of this facility. If11 you have a chance to get by and visit,12 it's worth the trip.13 We'll also be there in March.14 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,15 Commissioner.16 The other thing is that we've17 had a lot of the schools in our area

18 involved, mainly schools that you don't19 view as being involved in hunting and20 fishing.21 Again, my hat's off to Ray22 Metsler and Marissa Sasser. They have23 done a fantastic job with the Archery00231 School programs. It is proceeding.2 We'll have another State Championship3 this year on May 1st.4 It will be bigger and better,

5 and that program continues to amaze me6 because of the interest in it. The7 interest within those schools is just8 truly outstanding. So thank you all9 for a great job you're doing on that.10 District 7, Mr. Johnny11 Johnson.

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt12 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you,13 Mr. Chairman.14 It's been quite active in15 this district this time. We have -- I

16 have attended a number of meetings.17 On August 26th, I attended a18 meeting with a group. There were19 probably about 24 present in this20 meeting. They went over the new21 regulations and handed out the booklet22 and so forth bringing hunters up to23 date as to what was kind of happening.00241 There was another meeting2 with land owners and hunters on August3 28th, and there were probably more than

4 250 people in attendance at that5 meeting.6 Some of the biologists were7 there, our captains from a couple of8 districts were there. We just had a9 great meeting.10 This meeting involved Pickens11 County, Tuscaloosa County, Jefferson12 County, and Shelby County that were all13 in attendance there.14 On September 1st, there was

15 also another meeting concerning the new16 regulations that were enforced.17 Visiting these people and being there18 at this meeting and hearing them, they19 all seemed to have a positive attitude20 toward what was sent out for this year.21 Also, in Tuscaloosa, Judge22 Lake has a meeting each year; and we've23 probably had somewhere around 175 to00251 200 people in attendance at this

2 meeting. We went over the new3 regulations; safety; youth hunts; the4 laws; the fines, what they would be.5 Also, one of the judges6 pointed out -- he said, "When a case7 comes before me, they will not be8 thrown out," which is real positive

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt9 there in Tuscaloosa County.10 I visited with a number of11 people with regard to dog deer hunting,12 and I wanted to point out one in

13 particular. He was supposed to be in14 attendance today, and I don't know15 whether he is or not.16 He called the other night and17 said, "I'm not coming." He said, "I've18 got some problems;" and he said, "I've19 got to live with these people here."20 This particular man lived in21 Mobile County, but it was in Choctaw22 County where the problems were.23 You know, it's bad when a0026

1 person has to worry about their land2 and what's going on out there on that3 particular tract of land.4 Our Conservation Officers, I5 can't say enough admiration for what6 they do and the job that they have. I7 want to single out one person in8 particular. This happened at my place9 in Lamar County.10 On November 11, I happened to11 be stacking some lumber behind the

12 barn. I heard a shot out in front of13 the house. I ran up to the house, and14 I saw the vehicle pull off. It made a15 circle around.16 In the meantime, I told my17 sister that lived in the house, I said,18 "Go call Eddie Strickland." He said,19 "I'll be out there in just a minute."20 He came out. The deer was21 still laying out there. He said, "Let22 me pull my truck up behind the barn.

23 They may come back."00271 They did, and he ended up2 catching those people.3 I'm pointing this out because4 you've got to have the working of5 everybody out there, and the amount of

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt6 work that he did in visiting those7 parents of those boys to help correct8 it.9 In visiting with a judge,

10 these people were fined $900 plus court11 costs. Trespassing, $25 fine.12 Shooting from the road, $250.13 We need some fines out there14 that will deter these people from even15 attempting.16 It's a pleasure to work with17 people like Eddie Strickland, Dennis18 Sanford, and Johnny Johnson.19 I guess, other than that,20 other than visiting with them on the21 regular things, they seemed to be

22 scattered throughout the whole area.23 I think that will pretty well00281 sum my area up. Thank you.2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,3 Mr. Johnson.4 Also, District 7, Dr. Wayne5 May.6 Dr. May.7 DR. MAY: Thank you,8 Mr. Chairman.

9 I just want to mention some10 of the complaints, recommendations, and11 things that people have either called12 me about or written me about.13 The first thing I want to14 mention is a concern about the rule15 about the youth under 16, even with16 hunters education, being able to hunt17 alone without close adult supervision.18 They seem to think 30 feet on voice19 command is not close enough.

20 They seem to think -- and I21 kind of agree with them -- if you've22 got a young 12-year-old kid with a23 high-powered rifle sitting in a00291 shooting house or climbing stand, they2 think the adult should be right next to

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt3 him; and I agree with that.4 That's a decision I think the5 Department needs to make on the6 recommendation and put it in the

7 register when we put it out in the8 fall.9 I've had calls about shooting10 too many does. I think more are11 thinking we're doing the right thing12 than not doing the right thing.13 I personally think to manage14 your heard properly, you're going to15 have to shoot the doe. That's my16 personal opinion.17 The three-buck limit, most18 people I've talked to like it more than

19 they dislike it.20 I've had problems -- calls21 with problems of dog deer hunters in22 North Greene County, Northwest Choctaw23 County, Tallapoosa, West Hale, Baldwin,00301 and Perry.2 Baldwin County and Tallapoosa3 is not in my district. I'm not real4 familiar with them, but the problem in5 Baldwin County was a person that owned

6 property adjoining the Delta Management7 Area Zone A, which had to do with some8 dogs that were running on his property.9 I've had calls on crossbows.10 One of the things is crossbows and11 turkeys. I've enjoyed turkey hunting,12 and I don't care if you use a crossbow13 to kill one, but I do have a problem14 with crossbows because of poachers.15 They can clean my place out from16 turkeys, and I wouldn't even know they

17 had been there.18 If I hear a gun shot, at19 least I would know somebody with a gun20 was shooting. I'm sure the game warden21 has the same problem. It's not the22 weapon to use when people can use it23 for poaching, an illegal use.

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt00311 I had one call on at least2 defining the area; and I agree with3 him, as pertaining to hunting close to

4 so many feet. I think I would like to5 know if I'm legal, and I think that's6 what this gentleman wanted to know.7 I want to abide by the law,8 but I want to know what the area is. I9 don't want the game warden coming out10 there and telling me "I think it's11 something else," and he judges me12 different.13 I personally think it should14 be like Georgia's law, 200 yards and15 out of sight to be legal.

16 I'm hunting on 400 acres of17 land, and I'm 200 feet from this field.18 Am I hunting legal or illegal? The19 decision of the Board is coming up. He20 could say "You're in the area."21 If I'm 50 feet from it, sure,22 I could agree with him. It's in sight,23 and I can see it. We need to make a00321 distinction between what the area is2 and what the area is not.

3 I've had calls on our tagging4 system. Most people agree that we5 should have a tagging system. They6 just don't agree with what we're doing7 right now; and I have a sense to agree8 with them there.9 I like it the way Texas does10 it. I want a permanent tag put on. I11 want it put on there as soon as it's --12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Quiet in the13 audience, please.

14 DR. MAY: I want a tag put on15 it as soon as it hits the ground, as16 soon as you can get to him before you17 load him on the truck. I don't care18 whether it's a turkey or a deer or a19 buck.20 The way we have it right now,

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt21 you can have -- I could carry three22 different pieces of paper in my pocket23 and mark one if I wanted to. If I've0033

1 already had one filled out for the2 number of bucks or the numbers of3 turkeys, I can start a new one. So I4 think we need some kind of permanent5 tags.6 Mr. Johnson mentioned -- he7 called Thursday night about dog deer8 hunting in Perry County. We closed an9 area, if you recall, in West Perry. It10 went down to the Morgan Spring Road.11 The gentleman had kind of a12 hard time communicating because he had

13 throat cancer. He was in the Vietnam14 War, and a poison went through over15 there, and his lung has cancer.16 Last year, when we passed17 that, I thought the man was going to18 cry. He came up and hugged me for19 making the motion. He said, "I20 appreciate it so much because I've been21 bothered for 20 years."22 He called me last night, and23 he said, "I was mistaken. What you

00341 recommended, the area did not enclose2 where I live. I'm about five miles3 from it. I've been tormented this4 year." They were shooting down one of5 his shooting houses and tearing his6 mailboxes down.7 They carried his 14-year-old8 son out there one day. They had deer9 on the field, and here come the dogs10 running through. He would ask me, "Can

11 we not extend that area to enclose my12 land?"13 It's a hunting club, but its14 owned or leased. There's 3,000 or15 4,000 acres, I understand, from him16 that adjoins it.17 The lady that owns the land,

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt18 he says she's a perfect lady, the kind19 you would want to set out there on a20 pedestal that says "This is what a lady21 should be like;" but she leases her

22 land to some dog hunters.23 One is out of Douglas,00351 Georgia, and one is out of Montgomery,2 Alabama; and they have no respect for3 him or his property. I'm sure that's4 something we'll have to deal with in5 the future.6 I believe that's all the7 report I have.8 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,9 Doctor.

10 Also, on the Board,11 Dr. Smith. He said there was nothing12 that he needed to report on from the13 extension service.14 I would also like to15 recognize Commissioner Hobbie Sealy.16 The next order of business is17 old business. Is there anything from18 the previous meeting that needs to be19 discussed.20 If not, we'll move on to the

21 next order of business, which will be22 the Public Hearing.23 When you hear your name00361 called, please go to the microphone and2 give your name and the subject you wish3 to speak on.4 I'll remind you again that5 only you may speak at the time that you6 are called. Any interference to the7 speaker will not be tolerated.

8 Also, we have standing rules9 when you check in, Standing Advisory10 Board Rules. On there, we have 6011 speakers this time. You will note that12 since we've started, we want to make13 sure everybody has a chance to speak.14 Also, if there are several

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt15 persons that wish to speak on the same16 subject, please agree to choose one17 speaker to represent them.18 I think you will find the

19 Board will be a lot more receptive20 today if you get a speaker. Everyone21 can talk. It just makes it repetitive.22 A good suggestion would be to23 follow the rules and get a speaker to00371 represent you if you are in one of2 those groups. However, we want to hear3 from everybody.4 With that, we'll start.5 Does the Board have any6 objection to talking two minutes this

7 morning?8 (No response.)9 MR. CHAIRMAN: Very good.10 Again, we'll make exceptions11 as necessary. Under Marine Resources,12 Pete Barber from Mobile.13 MR. BARBER: Mr. Chairman,14 Commissioner, Members of the Board.15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Pete, let me16 interrupt you just a second. I've17 heard more cell phones this morning.

18 Y'all please make sure all your cell19 phones are turned down on vibrate so we20 don't interrupt our speakers.21 Thank you very much. Go22 ahead, Pete.23 MR. BARBER: My name is Pete00381 Barber. I'm the Executive Director of2 the Alabama Seafood Association.3 You should have gotten in4 your mailings from Robin a list of

5 proposals we have dealing with6 emergency fishing regulations that were7 promulgated last year during an8 exceedingly emotional legislative9 session.10 I think the Commissioner was11 right to try to do something like that,

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt12 and under the spur of the moment. We13 have now had a full season under these14 regulations. We've had fisheries15 meetings, and what you see before you

16 is the product of these meetings.17 First of all, we understand18 what the Commissioner was trying to do.19 I think that what we've come up with20 will deal with that; and, at the same21 time, it will give us some more fishing22 ability so that the fishermen can23 continue to make a living.00391 With that, Ben Harvard is the2 Vice President of our association. He3 has chaired the Fisheries meeting that

4 generated the paper you're looking at.5 So I would like to have him take the6 floor.7 MR. HARVARD: Since our time8 is limited time, I will dive right in.9 The management of the gulf.10 I primarily fish in the gulf. So I'm11 going to jump into the gulf issues12 primarily myself.13 Closure times and net mesh14 that we have moved to. A lot of this

15 was done -- the way it was done, I16 don't think things were taken into17 consideration.18 There were a lot of19 complaints about the recreational20 fishery, about the fisherman, about the21 lack of catching Spanish mackerel in22 2005. We think it's primarily because23 we caught more Spanish mackerel.00401 What wasn't taken into

2 consideration was in that same year, in3 2004, they landed over 700,000 king4 mackerel. In 2005, they landed almost5 half that. It wasn't just the Spanish6 mackerel that was different.7 From Louisiana to South8 Florida, in 2004, from recreational

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt9 fisheries of all kinds, there was an10 estimated 83 million pounds of fish.11 In 2005, it was 53 million.12 The reason I'm bringing that

13 up is because it shows a consensus14 there was a drop in recreational15 fishing of all kinds gulfwide that16 year. It wasn't just Alabama waters,17 and it wasn't just Spanish mackerel. I18 wanted you to know that there was more19 going on than just what was happening20 in our waters.21 Anyway, we made two22 suggestions. I hope you will consider23 these because we will need some help.0041

1 If we have to fish under the same rules2 in the gulf this year as we did last3 year, we're not going to make it. We4 absolutely will not make it.5 This is not about a resource6 stock of fish. The resource is in7 trouble. The three species we catch8 are Spanish mackerel, lady fish, and9 (inaudible.) Two of these fish don't10 even have a federal plan they're in11 such good shape.

12 Federal plans on mackerels by13 the National Fishery Service, they want14 commercial fishermen to catch in excess15 of 4 to 5 million pounds a year for our16 public for our consumers to eat.17 Gulfwide, we are exceeding a18 million pounds. Recreationally, they19 are allowed to catch over 3 million20 pounds. This year, that's what they21 want us to do. We've got 5 to 1022 million catfish that can be caught

23 yearly and the stock stay healthy. So00421 it's not a stock issue at all.2 MS. NUMMY: You need to wrap3 it up.4 MR. BARBER: Mainly, we just5 want you to look through these

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt6 recommendations and consider some7 possibilities we have here. We've8 looked at this. We're professionals.9 We know what our year will do. We know

10 what it will catch and what it won't11 catch.12 We would like one year. Give13 us one season fishery under some of14 these regulations we have here with15 mesh sizes to prove that we are correct16 in what size fish these nets will17 catch. It will not be the nightmare or18 the catching fish that the Department19 thinks it will.20 We know this. I'm basing21 this on my 54 years as a professional

22 fisherman on this. If we could get the23 Board to consider taking what a00431 fisherman knows about his equipment and2 his tools -- I know what it will do. I3 know what it won't do. We've never4 been given that chance.5 They go by different6 regulations of sizes, and they presume7 that's what's going to happen if you8 use this. We work this stuff. It's

9 not so.10 All I can ask for is one11 season to let us use these regulations12 that we have here. Not regulations.13 Recommendations. Let them monitor all14 the way through. Come go fishing with15 us. Put a man on the boat. Measure16 the fish. Do what you need to do.17 At the end of the season,18 come back here next year; and let's19 look at it. If there is a slight

20 problem, let's adjust it; but please21 don't keep holding us to something that22 started up here thinking that's what we23 need without finding out what we need.00441 It's killing us. We will not2 make it through another season. We're

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt3 going to be in the next line for our4 mortgages. Thank you.5 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,6 Mr. Barber.

7 Mr. Hatley, do you have8 follow up on that?9 MR. HATLEY: The only thing I10 would say is that we probably need to11 hear from Marine Resources before I can12 make any type of recommendation on13 that.14 MR. CHAIRMAN: Very good.15 That next speaker will be Shawn16 Slattery.17 Tell us to your county where18 you reside, Mr. Slattery.

19 MR. SLATTERY: Gulf Shores,20 Alabama. Baldwin County.21 I want to talk to y'all about22 fishing. The weekend closures has23 really killed me and my family. If00451 y'all were to take 30 or 40 percent of2 your income and just scratch it off,3 how would y'all feel? It's a big loss.4 We're not asking for the5 weekends back, but the night time on

6 the weekends, there's nobody else at7 all. We can come up with some kind of8 plan to fish at night time.9 MR. COMMISSIONER: What do10 you do for a living?11 MR. SLATTERY: I fish 10012 percent.13 MR. COMMISSIONER: What14 species?15 MR. SLATTERY: Mackerel, skip16 jack.

17 I'd really like to get the18 weekends back. That's a huge -- we19 fish on the weather, you know.20 Sometimes it will be rough on Monday,21 Tuesday, and Wednesday; and it gets22 nice Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.23 You can't go Friday night and Saturday

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt00461 night.2 We're not asking for the3 daytime. We know there's people on the

4 beach. I live right next to the beach.5 There isn't a soul on the beach at6 night, just the fishermen. I don't see7 what the big deal is in us going out8 there and fishing at night. It doesn't9 make sense.10 If you all take 30 or 4011 percent of your income and just scratch12 it off in a year, it's tough.13 Ivan came. For three weeks14 we weren't allowed on the water.15 Katrina came. A tree went through my

16 house. I had $60,000 worth of damage.17 Last year we were up here18 fighting the whole mackerel season just19 trying to fish for a living. I've got20 three kids and a wife. Now, all of a21 sudden, you can't fish on the weekends.22 I lost a lot of money last23 year, and I'm going to lose a lot more00471 this year. That's what I do. I fish2 for a living. It's tough. That's what

3 I do, and I want to keep doing it. I4 pray to.5 If you take away 30 or 406 percent of a man's income -- you know,7 it's hard enough the last few years8 with the economy, gas fuel prices.9 The price of motors has10 doubled in the last five years. They11 used to be $10,000. Now, it's $20,00012 for a motor.13 I'm just asking for a little

14 bit of help. That's all.15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes,16 Dr. Strickland.17 DR. STRICKLAND: What was the18 purpose of closing the fishing on the19 weekends?20 JT THOMAS: It mainly goes

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt21 back to a user group conflict more or22 less.23 DR. STRICKLAND: Would you0048

1 come to the microphone, please?2 What do you mean a user group3 conflict?4 JT THOMAS: The recreational5 section of the -- the two sectors6 there.7 This year, there become8 another issue about how many Spanish --9 how many were being caught by the10 recreational and commercial. I think11 they've been trying to find a balancing12 act where it would work. I think all

13 those issues came back in.14 The numbers were being caught15 by different groups, balancing that16 out; and the areas of the conflict of17 -- most of the Spanish fish are on the18 Gulf, from the Gulf Shores area, where19 the tourists are.20 DR. STRICKLAND: So it had to21 do with the harvest, the fish harvest,22 not with interacting with tourists and23 the traffic -- I guess that's typical.

00491 JT THOMAS: It is interaction2 and being seen by the groups that are3 down there and the levels of complaints4 that come in. There are a large number5 of complaints that do come in with6 those groups.7 DR. STRICKLAND: Do you see8 any problem with night fishing?9 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We've been10 spending a lot of time on this,

11 Dr. Strickland; and it is a user group,12 commercial and recreational. We have a13 responsibility to both those groups14 because that is a public trust, and it15 can't be dominated by one or the other.16 The last couple of years the17 domination has gone to the commercial

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt18 side. They may not catch the mackerel,19 but the mackerel are disturbed. It20 takes them a while to come back in21 toward the beach where the recreational

22 fishermen are.23 This was an effort that we00501 tried last year because mainly the2 recreational fishing down there is on3 the weekend. This will give the4 schools of mackerel time to settle5 down. They should have a good6 experience also and see how it works7 with the commercial fishermen.8 Obviously, in your case, it9 did not work. It's something that we

10 look at and we try to manage because11 it's a sensitive issue and it's a12 sensitive resource. Regulatory changes13 have to be made quite often.14 DR. STRICKLAND: Thank you.15 It sounds like there's been a lot of16 time and thought that has been put into17 that decision.18 MR. SLATTERY: After May 1st,19 all the mackerel are gone. There's20 just skip jack there, and it's still

21 closed. I'm just sitting at home every22 weekend.23 Obviously, they didn't put00511 too much time into it because after May2 1st, the mackerel are gone; and we're3 still closed.4 DR. STRICKLAND: We can5 discuss it in more detail a little6 later on.7 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,

8 Mr. Slattery, Dr. Strickland,9 Commissioner.10 The next speaker will be Jeff11 Abbett from Tallapoosa County.12 Okay. Jeff is not here so he13 will not be speaking.14 Kyle Blakeley.

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt15 Kyle, state the county you16 live in, please.17 MR. BLAKELEY: I live in18 Etowah County. My name is Kyle

19 Blakely.20 I've come to speak on behalf21 of the fox hunters and what they have22 done to us as far as taking and really23 cracking down on our law or the rule.00521 I'm not sure which one it is. I have2 not investigated that like I should.3 I want to speak on not being4 able to trap our game and transport our5 game to our fox pen within the State of6 Alabama. Mississippi can do it.

7 Our reasoning -- or my8 question to you, the Board, is: Is9 there anything we can do so that we can10 transport our game within the State of11 Alabama?12 We can catch it. We have13 times we can catch it, but we cannot14 transport it in the State of Alabama.15 This is one of the oldest16 sports that our nation has. It's not17 hurting anything. We have been drove

18 inside fox pens because of land owners19 not allowing us to do it anymore.20 Therefore, we are hunting in an21 enclosure.22 We are not doing it to catch23 the coyote or catch the fox. We are00531 doing it strictly for the sounds of the2 hounds and the sport of fox hunting and3 to listen to our dogs run game.4 I personally invite, any of

5 you that would like, to contact me.6 You can go fox hunting with me any7 time, and I promise we will not catch a8 coyote or a red fox. Thank you.9 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you so10 much.11 The next speaker will be

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt12 Lonnie Gant from Fayette County.13 MR. GANT: My name is Lonnie14 Gant. I'm from Fayette County.15 I'm talking about fox and

16 coyote hunting. I raise and breed17 fresh July Fox Hounds. I raise coyotes18 and foxes. I hunt in pens, and this19 crackdown has hurt me.20 Last year, I placed first in21 the American July Association Hunt in22 Grapevine, Arkansas. I will not be23 attending the hunt this year, which is00541 in two weeks, because I have not been2 able to run my dogs because of the3 crackdown on the pens.

4 These pen owners do not want5 their coyotes and foxes harmed. When6 they get these coyotes and foxes, they7 give them the best medicine, the best8 shots, and the best feed they can buy.9 They also have catch pens10 inside these fox pens where a fox and a11 coyote can get if the dogs get too12 close on them.13 They also require that you14 run a muzzle on your dog in this pen.

15 Nearly every fox pen I've been to, we16 run muzzles on our dogs to keep our17 dogs from harming the coyotes, in case18 they get close to one.19 This recent crackdown on20 these fox pens and coyote pens is21 really hurting me and my kennel. I own22 about 30 July Fox Hounds. I have23 puppies and large dogs. I can't run on00551 the outside because of the recent

2 crackdown on dogs on the outside. Now,3 I can't run the pens because of the4 crackdown on the pens.5 I would just like -- if maybe6 we could adopt a program like Louisiana7 or Mississippi or Arkansas where they8 sell permits to trappers to be able to

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt9 haul and trap and sell varmint game;10 such as, fox and coyote.11 This is a big help to people12 like my father, who is a cattle farmer

13 who owns a 300-acre cattle farm, for14 people to be able to go in and entrap15 these coyotes and take them out. They16 are a nuisance to these cattle farmers.17 It's a nuisance to goat farmers --18 MS. NUMMY: Time.19 MR. GANT: I would just like20 to adopt a program where we could buy21 permits and be able to transport game22 to pens and keep this hunting alive.23 Thank you.0056

1 MS. NUMMY: Mr. Moultrie,2 Mr. Abbett was outside.3 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Let's4 go back to Mr. Abbett.5 MR. ABBETT: Good morning.6 I'm from Tallapoosa County.7 I was hoping my president of8 my club would be here this morning, but9 --10 MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, talk11 into the microphone.

12 MR. ABBETT: I was hoping the13 president of the club would have been14 here this morning.15 I was wanting to -- about our16 doe harvest in Tallapoosa County. The17 Red Eye Hunting Club, anything east of18 the Tallapoosa River on 280, if y'all19 would slow that down because we just20 don't have -- there's places to hunt.21 There's places that people can't hunt,22 of course.

23 I was kind of wanting to -- I00571 know y'all have a lot of complaints2 about dog hunters. We are a dog3 hunting club. I just want to let y'all4 know that we make all the moves that we5 can to keep these dogs off of other

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt6 people's land.7 We have still hunters that's8 got clubs, and they let their dogs come9 through. That's where a lot of deer is

10 from in Alabama.11 We just wanted to let y'all12 know that we have taken all the means13 that we can to try our best to keep the14 dogs off their land.15 All of us need to stick16 together; bow hunters, gun hunters, dog17 hunters, or whatever. We're all in it18 for the fun. Let's go out and enjoy19 ourselves.20 Thank you.21 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very

22 much.23 Mr. Jonathan Blakeley.00581 MR. BLAKELEY: My name is2 Jonathan Blakely. I'm from Elmore3 County, just Northeast of Montgomery.4 I'm here concerning fox and5 coyote chasing, as well. The concern6 is the law about trapping. The law now7 states that if a coyote is caught in a8 trap, it has to be killed in the trap.

9 A dead coyote is no good to10 me or any of my friends. A dead fox is11 no good to us.12 Fox hunting is one of the13 oldest sports in this country. George14 Washington himself ran a fox in15 Washington DC.16 Now, some of you love to play17 golf, and some of you love to do18 different things. We love to hear our19 hounds run a fox and a coyote, not to

20 catch him, not to hurt him, but for the21 sport of the hound.22 I hunt many times in a year,23 and I never carry a gun except in the00591 summertime simply to kill snakes with.2 We do not have murder in our heart. We

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt3 have the love of the animal in our4 heart, and we are the coyote's and5 fox's best friend.6 Cattle farmers don't like

7 him. He gets their cattle. You don't8 like it if you hit one on the highway9 and he messes your Mercedes up, do you?10 Let us catch him and put him inside a11 fox pen where we'll feed him, we'll12 tend to him and take care of him.13 If we get too close to him,14 he goes somewhere where he can hide and15 get away from the dogs. If not, if he16 should get behind a wire -- as most of17 you know from that being a blood18 sport -- there's nothing bloody about

19 it.20 We, as the hunters, want to21 save that coyote and save that fox22 because he -- a dead coyote is no good23 to us. We can't run him.00601 So we need a law passed where2 we can take that coyote out of that3 trap and put him where he will be safe4 and be fed and be watered and be tended5 to on a daily basis.

6 That's what we're asking for,7 is to be able to trap him in this state8 and move him in this state.9 We're not wanting to carry10 him to Texas. We hunt right here at11 home. We want to trap him in Elmore12 County and leave him Elmore County or13 leave him out here in Chambers County14 or Montgomery County.15 MS. NUMMY: Time.16 MR. BLAKELEY: Thank you for

17 your time.18 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Blakeley,19 you win the Enunciator of the Year20 Award. That was a hell of a good job.21 If everyone would take a22 lesson from Mr. Blakeley, I don't think23 our court reporter would be having the

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt00611 problems she's having hearing everyone.2 The next speaker will be3 Mr. Tommy Gibson from Coffee County.

4 MR. GIBSON: Hello. I'm5 Tommy Gibson from Coffee County. I'm6 also a fox hunter. I'm president of a7 deer dog hunting club.8 In our dog hunting club, we9 went to beagles, but I still have fox10 hounds. I don't run my fox hounds on11 the outside anymore because of the12 amount of stand hunters.13 We basically do it to keep14 from disturbing other hunters because15 our dogs are a little long winded and

16 they're hard to control.17 So we run a pen. We also18 have a fox pen. The way they crack19 down on the fox pens now -- I mean,20 it's always been done, basically; and21 it's always been against the law to22 trap them and put them in the pens; but23 it's basically just a law that's been00621 more or less overlooked. It's kind of2 like if you don't ask, we won't tell.

3 Now, just all of sudden, they've4 decided to lock down on it.5 What we want is just to be6 able, like Mr. Blakeley said, to be7 able to trap a coyote and put him in8 our pen.9 We don't mind being10 regulated. We're honest working11 people. We all have jobs. None of us12 want to be outlaws. There's bad apples13 in everything. Everybody saw on the

14 news some stuff that went on.15 Everybody is not like that.16 In our pen, like he said, we17 have barrels. We have wires they can18 get behind. Coyotes and foxes can19 climb a tree. They can go in a hole.20 I mean, it's -- most of the pens are --

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt21 ours is around 300 acres. The one in22 Andalusia we hunt in is over 1,000.23 It's not like we're going out there in0063

1 a five-acre pen and turning the dogs2 loose to kill a coyote.3 We feed these coyotes and4 foxes the same feed that our dogs eat.5 I mean, basically, as a dog hunter, we6 have no place else to go. This is the7 only way we can run our hounds.8 I have a 16-year-old son. He9 hunts with me, him and his friends.10 All of them are high school boys. They11 all go to the fox kennel with us every12 weekend, and they sit around campfires.

13 To me, that's just a lot14 better place for those boys to be than,15 you know, riding the roads and getting16 into trouble and doing a lot of things17 that high school boys do.18 That's all we're asking for,19 is to be regulated. We don't mind20 buying permits. We don't mind buying a21 license.22 We'll work with the23 Conservation Department any way we can.

00641 If they want to come in and study some2 of the games we have and do blood3 samples on them, we have no problem4 with that.5 Thank you.6 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very7 much.8 Mr. Hatley, go ahead.9 MR. HATLEY: Mr. Gibson, do10 you have a Fox Hunters Association

11 statewide?12 MR. GIBSON: Yes.13 MR. EDWARDS: You've got the14 president right here.15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Please let the16 speaker answer the question.17 MR. HATLEY: How many members

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt18 do you have?19 MR. GIBSON: I'd have to let20 Mr. Junior Edwards answer that. He's21 the president.

22 MR. CHAIRMAN: He's the23 president?00651 MR. GIBSON: Yes, sir; and2 he's here.3 MR. CHAIRMAN: Would you come4 to the microphone rapidly, please, sir.5 MR. HATLEY: I have another6 question, if you don't mind.7 I need to clear the air in my8 own mind about the interpretation of9 pens, and some of the Department may

10 help me here. Maybe we should talk11 outside of this and get it cleared up.12 I need to understand the size13 of the pens, the limitations on the14 pens, why we -- are they interpreting15 our law correctly as far as the pens16 are concerned?17 Please, Allan, if you would.18 MR. ANDRESS: My name is19 Allan Andress. I'm the Chief of20 Enforcement with Wildlife and

21 Freshwater Fisheries.22 MR. HATLEY: The question is:23 Are they interpreting our laws or00661 regulations correctly in the size of2 their pens; and are we confusing3 interstate and intrastate4 transportation of game? I need a5 clarification on that.6 MR. ANDRESS: Well, I'm not7 sure. There's a lot of information

8 that goes along with this subject. If9 you don't mind, I'll give you a little10 background, if that's okay. I'll try11 to keep it brief.12 We've got a number -- or a13 law and number of regulations which are14 fairly longstanding, we've had them for

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt15 quite a while, that prohibit the sale16 of live captured wildlife. Coyotes and17 foxes are included in that group.18 I also have some regulations

19 that prohibit the possession and20 transportation and importation and sale21 of protected wildlife, and coyotes and22 foxes are a member of that group.23 It was back in 1993 -- up00671 until 1993, there was no law regulation2 that prohibited the importation of3 foxes and coyotes, for example. In4 that year, a strain of rabies that was5 unknown in Alabama was introduced into6 the state, connected with the

7 relocation of coyotes in South Alabama;8 and it infected some hounds. Also,9 humans were exposed to it.10 In 1994, that's when that law11 against importation of coyotes first12 took affect. We do not now nor have we13 ever prohibited or regulated fox pens14 as such; but it was back during the15 '80s or so that they started to appear16 in Alabama.17 Between then and the year

18 2002, not a lot of attention was paid19 to these -- what was going on there;20 but, in 2002, the Public Health21 Veterinarian with the Department of22 Public Health contacted us and had some23 concerns about what was going on with00681 this relocation of wildlife. Not just2 foxes and coyotes, but raccoons and a3 number of other species.4 They asked us to look at what

5 we were allowing as far as the6 intrastate transportation, as well. Of7 course, as I said before, we prohibited8 the importation, the intrastate9 transportation back in 1994, I think it10 was. That year we did that, we11 followed that recommendation.

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt12 Even with our own staff, as13 far as relocating nuisance animals, we14 directed them not to relocate animals15 across major natural barriers such as

16 rivers or to cross county lines.17 At that time, we met with18 some of the people who were in the fox19 and coyote enclosure hunting area and20 advised them of the change in our21 practice.22 Then, here recently, we had23 gotten information that the laws00691 against transportation, possession,2 live capture, and relocation of foxes3 and coyotes was taking place, and some

4 intrastate trafficking, as well.5 We conducted about a two-year6 investigation, which expanded to a7 number of other states; and we found8 that there were a significant amount of9 violations going on.10 This was not just in Alabama,11 but it was in these other states, most12 of which do what some of the people13 here have asked for today, which is to14 regulate, permit, and allow the

15 localized trapping and relocation of16 foxes and coyotes. We found that17 importation was basically one of the18 number one problems that they were19 having, as well.20 The crackdown they're talking21 about is I result of that two-year22 investigation where we arrested quite a23 number of people and made quite a00701 number of charges on associated --

2 violations associated with this.3 I don't know if that was4 helpful to you at all, but that's just5 sort of a little background that may be6 helpful.7 MR. HATLEY: I guess maybe8 what I'm trying to get at, Allan, is:

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt9 Can we take these guys and can we take10 our department and can we work at any11 type of solution or resolution to help12 alleviate their problem without

13 promulgating something else or14 complicating the situation any further15 than what it already is?16 MR. ANDRESS: We have, in17 fact, met with some of the18 representatives and have had some19 correspondence with some of the20 representatives within this, I'll say,21 organization. Not an organization, but22 just some individuals.23 We tried to offer them some0071

1 alternatives and some solutions to2 that. However, at this time, we're not3 prepared to recommend the live capture4 and relocation, even within the state,5 at this time, based on wildlife health6 concerns and recommendations from a7 number of wildlife agencies and from8 the Department of Public Health.9 There are also some public10 health concerns, and they also refer to11 some of the humane concerns. There are

12 some who are having humane concerns13 associated with them. However, that's14 not our primary thing.15 Based on those concerns, is16 the reason the laws are what they are17 and the reason we've been enforcing18 them as we have.19 Again, we'll be glad to meet20 with them on other alternatives for21 that; but, at this time, we're not22 prepared to make a recommendation to

23 permit live capture and relocation00721 within the state because of some2 serious enforcement issues associated3 with that, which other states that do4 permit them are having themselves.5 MR. HATLEY: I think you've

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt6 answered -- helped clear up some of the7 things.8 My main concern was that we9 were not really looking at their

10 problems and trying to mediate11 anything, and you've explained why and12 what you're doing.13 MR. ANDRESS: Yeah. Well, it14 was fine with me.15 I do want to make it clear16 that we are very sympathetic with their17 position, and we understand that, but18 there's no attempt to try to shut down19 fox hunting in any way. We are just20 focussing on doing our very best to try21 to address these disease issues having

22 to do with the relocation of animals.23 In no way are we trying to be00731 unsympathetic or trying to shut that2 down at all. We encourage that, what3 they do.4 MR. CHAIRMAN: Can you stay5 at the microphone for just a second. I6 think we're going to have several more7 questions from the Board.8 Will the President of the

9 Foxhunters give your name, please?10 MR. EDWARDS: My name is JR11 Edwards. I live in Elmore County.12 I'm the President of the13 Alabama State Foxhunters Association.14 We have a hunt every year. At this15 present time, we hold it in Andalusia.16 We have a good turnout. We17 have 200 to 250 members. It varies18 every year. We have a good turnout.19 To keep these hunts going,

20 we've got to get permission to get game21 and put it in the pen within the State22 of Alabama. We don't want to go23 nowhere, just stay in Alabama.00741 We ask to be allowed to trap2 the coyote and take him out of the trap

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt3 and put him in the pen -- that's all4 we're asking for -- without getting a5 ticket or getting arrested.6 In the State of Georgia -- I

7 stayed over there six years. I have8 kin over there. You can trap him. You9 can put him in the pen. You can take10 him with you or whatever you want to11 do.12 MR. CHAIRMAN: We may have13 some more questions for you.14 If you're having trouble15 standing, you can sit on the stage and16 use the microphone.17 We've got a couple of18 questions from the board members.

19 Mr. Johnson.20 MR. JOHNSON: You made21 reference to the size pens, 300 or22 1,000 acres. I just wondered how many23 of these we would have throughout the00751 state. Do you have any estimate or2 anything on that?3 MR. EDWARDS: We have small4 pens we run puppies in. Probably -- I5 don't know how many with the puppies.

6 Big pens, we only have -- there's one7 in Waterloo, Alabama that's about 1,8008 acres. We have one in Andalusia that's9 1,000. We have one in Wing, Alabama10 with 600 acres. It varies from 5011 acres to 13- or 14-acre pens.12 We've got one in Georgia.13 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you,14 Mr. Johnson.15 Okay. Mr. Coles.16 MR. JOHNSON: If I might add,

17 according to the last survey we did, we18 counted, I think, 38 enclosures,19 something like that. They ranged in20 size from 10 to right at 1,000 acres.21 That's according to that22 survey. There may have been some a23 little larger; but, according to that

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt00761 survey, the average was about 350.2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Coles.3 MR. COLES: Captain Andress,

4 what prohibits them from trapping and5 transferring foxes and coyotes to other6 pens? Is that a regulation, or is that7 a law?8 MR. ANDRESS: Some of both.9 Some of both. We have a --10 MR. COLES: If it's a law11 that prohibits them, then this Board12 can't do anything about. It would have13 to go before the legislatures.14 MR. ANDRESS: Yes, sir. It15 would require to do what -- what

16 they're requesting would require both17 legislative action and action by the18 Board.19 MR. CHAIRMAN:20 Dr. Strickland.21 DR. STRICKLAND: Allan, what22 I would like to see happen -- of23 course, I know you've spent a lot of00771 time on this previously -- is to take2 another really close look at this and

3 see if there's any way that we can help4 these guys out some way where they can5 continue the sport.6 Obviously, they have a real7 passion for it. I know we have to do8 what's best for -- you know, we can't9 have disease, particularly rabies,10 spread throughout the community among11 dogs and things of that sort.12 It looks like there's13 something that we can do so they can

14 continue to do this legally. That's15 basically what they're coming to us16 for. They want a way that they can do17 their sport within the laws that we18 have provided.19 MR. ANDRESS: We will be glad20 to do that.

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt21 MR. MOULTRIES: Any final22 comments?23 Dr. May.0078

1 DR. MAY: Are there any2 regulations on the minimum size of a3 pen?4 MR. ANDRESS: Not in Alabama,5 no, sir. We do not regulate them in6 any way.7 MR. CHAIRMAN: If you would8 like to finish up very quickly,9 Mr. Gibson.10 MR. GIBSON: Yeah. The only11 thing I want to know is, you know, they12 say that we can't transport -- capture

13 and transport, but there are numerous14 companies in the State of Alabama that15 actually charge people.16 I saw an article in the17 "Birmingham News." There's a company18 called Critter Control. They can get19 permits from the State, and they go out20 there, and they catch nuisance animals21 inside of Hoover.22 Hoover is paying $8,900 a23 month to this company, and they catch

00791 foxes and coyotes all this, and they2 move them out of Hoover, and they3 relocate them. They're turning them4 back loose into the wild.5 What we're wanting to do -- I6 mean, we're even willing to go out here7 and work with the biologists. As our8 trappers catch them, we'll let them --9 we'll put tags in their ears to let10 them know which area. That way, if it

11 comes up with a disease, it actually12 can be confined to a certain area; and13 they know what the disease is.14 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Andress,15 would you like to comment on that?16 MR. ANDRESS: Yeah. We are17 familiar with it, and that was one of

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt18 the things addressed in 2002 in our19 discussions to people such as these20 first two on animals that are known to21 carry rabies.

22 We recommend they be23 euthanized on the spot. We recommend00801 that if they are moved, that they not2 moved across a county line or across a3 major river system. They are not4 allowed to be transported anywhere.5 The best practice on those6 kinds of animals is euthanasia, and we7 do not allow them widespread8 relocation, either.9 MR. CHAIRMAN: Commissioner,

10 do you have a comment?11 MR. LAWLEY: Yeah. The12 question was: Why wouldn't they be13 subject to the same regulations as14 everybody else that (inaudible)?15 MR. ANDRESS: They're16 operating under a Wildlife Damage17 Permit.18 MR. LAWLEY: That allows them19 to take live?20 MR. ANDRESS: Yes. Like, if

21 you've got a raccoon in your storage22 room, they're allowed to take that23 animal and capture him.00811 With certain animals like2 raccoons and foxes, which are known3 rabies vectors, we don't advise that4 they keep them alive anywhere. We5 advise that they euthanize them.6 That's what happens with the7 majority of those animals, they are

8 euthanized. They do it under a9 Nuisance Animal Permit, Wildlife Damage10 Permit.11 MR. CHAIRMAN: Describe that12 permit. It's a Wildlife Damage Permit,13 or Nuisance Animal Permit? Which is14 it?

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt15 MR. ANDRESS: It's a Wildlife16 Damage, which allows them to deal with17 a nuisance animals.18 We issue those to individual

19 citizens that have squirrels, and we20 issue them to farmers who have problems21 with deer. It's the same sort of22 permit issued to the ones who have deer23 depredating their crops. It's the same00821 type of permit.2 MR. HATLEY: Hogs.3 MR. ANDRESS: Yeah, hogs.4 MR. CHAIRMAN: Very good.5 If you'll finish up for us6 real quickly, sir.

7 MR. EDWARDS: What kind of8 permit would we have to have to trap a9 coyote and put him in a truck and take10 him down the road and put him in a pen,11 alive, before we have it on the run12 with our hounds?13 MR. CHAIRMAN: You're asking14 what kind of permit?15 MR. EDWARDS: Yeah. What16 kind of permit can we get to do that?17 Can we get a Nuisance Permit to do

18 that?19 MR. ANDRESS: We do not issue20 permits to capture animals and relocate21 them for hunting purposes, no, sir.22 MR. EDWARDS: In other words,23 the pen is just a don't in Alabama. I00831 mean, we can't put nothing in it, and2 we can't run it?3 Ain't nobody going to take a4 chance with the way the law is today

5 about hauling them in a truck. I6 ain't, but I've done been captured.7 MR. CHAIRMAN: The next8 speaker will be Mr. Bruce Handley from9 Walker County.10 MR. HANDLEY: I'm Bruce11 Handley from Walker County. I'm a

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt12 retired coach and assistant principal.13 I'm representing the Foxhunters of14 North Alabama.15 We are talking about the same

16 problem. We have moved from outside to17 try to get away from disturbing deer18 hunters and moved to the pen, and we've19 been hunting in the pens for about 2020 years.21 Now, all of a sudden, we're22 having to be -- we are having people23 caught, carried to jail, given a big00841 fine, and given two years probation.2 These are law-abiding citizens that3 want to do what's right. We want to be

4 able to trap and transport foxes, as5 they do in all the other southeastern6 states.7 If you'll check with Georgia,8 Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas -- any9 place except Alabama -- they can trap10 and move the game within the state.11 Now, what about diseases? If12 it's diseases we're worried about, I13 believe we would rather have them in a14 pen than out in the wild. We would at

15 least know where they are.16 If the pens will provide an17 escape place, they already have them.18 Nearly all pen owners I know about19 already have an escape place for the20 coyotes and for the foxes to get where21 the dogs don't get them.22 Are we going to pay $100 for23 a fox and take him in there and catch00851 him? We're trying to protect him.

2 If it's a law that Alabama3 needs to change, then I have a4 representative. The majority leader,5 Ken Guin, tells me that he will6 introduce legislature that will change7 the law; or he will work with the Board8 in any way that he possibly can in

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt9 order to get this changed where we can10 hunt with some peace.11 I'm 74 years old. I have12 three grandsons and two sons that would

13 like to just go out and hear dogs run14 without being harassed.15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.16 MR. HANDLEY: If we could get17 that, that would be all we need.18 I will say this, I've talked19 to some other legislators, Ken Guin,20 Mr. Tommy Shear, Mr. Bishop; and we21 have contacted others in North Alabama,22 hoping to get something corrected about23 this.0086

1 In other words, if we've got2 pens and they're not illegal, if we3 can't hunt, why have the pens?4 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Handley,5 thank you very much. Your time is up.6 MR. HANDLEY: Thank you.7 MR. CHAIRMAN: The next8 speaker will be Scott Head.9 Mr. Head, please state the10 county where you reside.11 MR. HEAD: My name is Scott

12 Head. I'm from Escambia County,13 Florida. I'm President of the Sunshine14 State Foxhunters Association.15 We hold our annual hunt16 usually in Andalusia, Alabama. Without17 these pens -- we have 200 to 25018 members. Without these pens, we can't19 have our hunts in Alabama, and we're20 bringing revenue into the state.21 Several hunters came with me22 from Florida. If we don't -- it's a

23 family oriented thing. We have our00871 kids there. People bring their2 grandkids to see it.3 Without y'all's help and4 without the trapping laws being5 changed, then this is a dying support

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt6 for our family and everything else. My7 grandparents done it and their parents8 done, and we don't want to see it die.9 Florida brings revenue every

10 year to Alabama for this fox hunt, more11 than what is probably counted; and I12 just want y'all to think about this and13 help us as much as possible.14 Thank you.15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very16 much, Mr. Head.17 The next speaker will be18 Dwight Lawrence from Fayette County.19 MR. LAWRENCE: I'm Dwight20 Lawrence. I'm from Fayette County.21 I'm a fox hunter, have been all my

22 life. My grandfather introduced me to23 it.00881 They pretty much covered the2 permit deal that I wanted to discuss3 with everyone. What I would like to4 emphasize is the health of the animals5 that they catch.6 I'm President of the American7 July Critters Association. Last8 weekend, I helped immunize over 200

9 coyotes for our field trial we've got10 coming up in two weeks.11 We take these animals and12 give them a vaccine and hold them in a13 holding pen for two weeks before we14 turn them loose into the main pen to15 make sure they're healthy.16 They have rabies vaccine.17 They're vaccinated for all diseases a18 canine can get.19 They are tagged and marked

20 and kept a record of to see which is21 which, who came from -- which dog came22 from which trapper.23 As far as permits go, we00891 stock deer pens in Alabama every day.2 You can buy a permit to stock a deer

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt3 pen, but you can't buy a permit to4 stock a cattle pen.5 That's it.6 MR. CHAIRMAN: The next

7 speaker will be Mr. Lee Miller from8 Elmore County.9 MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman,10 Members of the Board, my name is Lee11 Miller. I'm here representing the Lake12 Jordan Home Owners and Boat Owners13 Association. I'm going to change the14 subject from fox hunting just briefly.15 We submitted a formal16 resolution to the Commissioner back in17 the Fall of '06 asking him to look at18 the possibility that he would exercise

19 his authority under Alabama law to20 implement speed zones and no wake zones21 from the public waters of this state.22 We are primarily interested23 in Lake Jordan, but this is an issue00901 that you might want to consider2 statewide.3 Anybody that fishes or boats4 in the big lakes in Alabama knows that5 boat traffic is increasing. The size

6 and power of the boats is increasing.7 We had a fatality accident on Lake8 Jordan last year that was as a result9 of speed.10 These lakes are going to11 continue to become more popular. The12 shoreline development is increasing.13 We've got two condo developments in14 progress up on Lake Jordan, which is15 really just a wide spot in the Coosa16 River. That's going to put more boats

17 and more people on the lake.18 Shoreline erosion is an19 issue. Lake safety is an issue.20 We would encourage the Board21 to encourage the Commissioner to take a22 look at this. Other States have done23 this. Georgia has a statute called the

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt00911 "Proximity Law." That's a good example2 of the type of laws and regulations3 that you could consider.

4 The Commissioner already has5 the authority to do this. We would6 urge the Board to encourage him to do7 it.8 If it's okay, I have a9 statement I would like to submit for10 the record concerning this.11 COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I know12 we sent you a copy of that Georgia law.13 What is your feeling on that, in your14 group?15 MR. MILLER: I think that's

16 an excellent first thing to look at.17 The "Proximity Law" would require idle18 or no wake speed limits within certain19 proximities of the shoreline where20 there's residents or docks or piers or21 boats that are not moving. I think22 this is an excellent start to review23 this issue.00921 Thank you for your time.2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Very good.

3 Thank you, sir.4 The next speaker will be5 Mr. Gene Myers.6 State your residence, please,7 Mr. Myers.8 MR. MYERS: My name is Gene9 Myers. I'm from Gulf Shores, Alabama;10 and I'm the owner of Paradise Marine11 Center.12 I'm here on behalf of 275,00013 registered boat owners of this state to

14 defend and fight for water access15 rights. We are 17th in the nation for16 registered boats. If all our boats are17 put on trailers and towed in a caravan,18 the line would stretch from Gulf Shores19 to Huntsville.20 You're probably not aware of

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt21 it, but the future of boating and the22 boating industry is at a critical23 crossroad. Public access to our0093

1 nations waterways is shrinking at an2 alarming rate.3 Throughout the country,4 developers are buying up marinas and5 boatyards and converting them to6 private facilities. It is happening on7 the Alabama Gulf Coast.8 Because of this trend, state9 and local municipalities must be10 proactive and take bold steps to11 address this startling decline.12 Without convenient access, the average

13 working man is limited in his ability14 to boat in state waters.15 I personally feel it is right16 for all Alabamians to have equal water17 access opportunity. I think you would18 have to agree.19 We have a golden opportunity20 in Orange Beach to address this21 shortage; but, to date, we feel that22 the Conservation Department has not23 been proactive in expanding these

00941 opportunities for its citizens.2 I am here to appeal directly3 to the Advisory Board Members to become4 involved and learn more about a5 tremendous opportunity you have to6 enhance the public's access to our7 coastal waterways.8 Last summer, the City of9 Orange Beach approached the10 Conservation Department regarding a

11 proposal to build a ramp on a portion12 of a 32-acre parcel that the Department13 owns on Old River. The City was asking14 for use of five acres to build a state15 of the art boat launch facility at the16 City's expense, not a dime paid by the17 State.

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt18 From my understanding, there19 was little resistance from the State20 regarding this partnership until the21 people who live on the private island

22 community known as Ono Island bristled23 at the idea of a public boat ramp in00951 their backyard. They started to apply2 pressure to the Governor and3 Commissioner.4 There are three things that5 folks on Ono Island have that the6 average Alabamian does not have; and7 that is, plenty of money, political8 clout, and a private boat ramp of their9 own.

10 MS. NUMMY: Time.11 MR. CHAIRMAN: If you would,12 finish up real quick, please, sir.13 MR. MYERS: I left you guys a14 book up there that I prepared for you.15 I have no agenda. I spent my own money16 doing it, but this access of boating is17 very very important. You're missing a18 golden opportunity here.19 I will put this in the form20 of an E-mail so you can have it

21 personally, but I think this is22 something that we're missing the boat23 on.00961 "Forbes Magazine" recently2 rated the Mobile metropolitan area as3 the number one growth area, with a4 whopping 34 percent increase in5 economic strength in the next five6 years.7 These people need to be

8 putting boats somewhere. You've got9 two state ramps in Baldwin County, and10 one over there in Mobile County.11 That's it for the entire Gulf Coast.12 I'm talking about ramps that can handle13 big boats in close proximity to the14 Gulf.

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very16 much.17 The next speaker will be18 Mr. Johnny Wood.

19 Please state your county of20 residence.21 MR. WOOD: My name is Johnny22 Wood. I'm from Opp, Alabama, Covington23 County. I'm in education. I'm an00971 assistant coach and principal.2 My uncle was the past3 Conservation Director, Carl B. Kelly4 with the State of Alabama during all5 the Wallace administration years.6 I appreciate the Board's

7 opportunity, and I see some (inaudible)8 on this fox and coyote situation that9 we're talking.10 I've done a lot of research11 on this in the last six months. There12 is one disease of rabies in a coyote13 that came from West Texas that came in14 to North Florida. That's where the dog15 went to run and got the disease and16 came back in to Alabama. So it wasn't17 a coyote from Alabama. It was a coyote

18 from Florida.19 Another disease that is well20 spoken from the Department of Vets21 comes from Canada and the northern22 states and gets in fox, coyotes, house23 cats, and house dogs. It was founded00981 in 1858.2 In 150 years, reckon how many3 house cats and house dogs have come4 from these states into Alabama where

5 the disease has never been found.6 The only way you can get it7 is through eating coyote, fox, cat, or8 dog feces, ingesting it so it gets into9 your system.10 Our State Conservation11 Department is against this, even though

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt12 Florida, Georgia, Mississippi all do it13 at this time.14 Title 9 Section 9-11-247 says15 that in the State of Alabama, it's a

16 law that you can have 10 coons, the17 most diseased animal in the State of18 Alabama. You can have them on hand,19 transport them, or anything you want to20 as long as you're a legal coon -- with21 a lot of contacts. That's an old rule,22 but that's in the book. That's legal.23 I was hearing Mr. Andress00991 talk. Why couldn't we get a nuisance2 -- if we didn't transport it across3 major waterways or county lines, could

4 we do that?5 MS. NUMMY: Time.6 MR. LAWLEY: Let him finish7 up.8 MR. WOOD: We've been in9 contact, me and my representatives.10 These are people throughout the State11 of Alabama --12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Speak into the13 microphone, please.14 MR. WOOD: These are doctors,

15 lawyers, cattle farmers, and other16 representatives of the State of17 Alabama.18 The Speaker of the House,19 Mr. Seth Hammett is wanting to know if20 the Conservation Department is going to21 help us with this situation. There are22 people all over the state whose County23 Commissions have met and said, "We are01001 behind y'all." All this is documented

2 in these books. These are people all3 over the state.4 Alabama Cattle Association,5 Alabama Wild Turkey Federation, Alabama6 Farmers Federation, Representatives and7 Senators from the Agriculture8 Department and State Deputy Tony

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt9 Frazier has been on hand with all the10 communication that we want.11 MR. CHAIRMAN: Very good.12 Before your question, I've got one

13 question.14 Dr. May, if I can call on15 your veterinary expertise real quick.16 So the Board will know, how is rabies17 transferred? Is that the only way it's18 transferred?19 About the only way I remember20 it is when Old Yeller got tore up with21 it, and he was put to sleep.22 Can you clear up for the23 Board how rabies is transferred or0101

1 would be in this situation?2 DR. MAY: Rabies normally3 transmits through a bite.4 The virus itself does not5 travel by the bloodstream, but by the6 nerve endings. The closer you are7 bitten to your brain, the sooner you8 are going to come down with the9 disease.10 MR. CHAIRMAN: So has there11 ever been a documented rabies case in

12 Alabama on coyotes and baby coyotes?13 DR. MAY: I can't answer14 that.15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley,16 you had a question.17 MR. HATLEY: Yeah, I've got a18 question. In general, why -- let me19 back up. Why are we transporting the20 foxes and the coyotes?21 MR. WOOD: I've a cattle22 ranch. I get calls all the time.

23 "There's a red fox raising pups. I01021 don't want that fox around there. Can2 you please come and get him?"3 I can't go down because if I4 catch him, I've got to shoot him in5 front of those little children. I

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt6 can't take him out of that cage and7 take him two miles and put him in a fox8 pen.9 MR. HATLEY: Move the little

10 children.11 MR. WOOD: I'm just giving12 you an example.13 I can't trap where you're14 standing and a fox pen be right because15 I can't take him out of the trap and16 put him in there. Law, legalwise.17 MR. HATLEY: Why did you18 establish pens in the first place?19 MR. WOOD: We established20 pens to get away from land owners21 complaining about dogs being on their

22 property.23 Like, I've got three 80-year-01031 old men that come to the fox pen. They2 can't get out and chase hounds anymore3 on the outside of the fox. They've got4 two or three dogs. They sit at the5 campfire and make them some coffee.6 They turn their hounds out and get them7 back up and go home. That's their8 life.

9 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley,10 any other questions for the Board?11 MR. HATLEY: Well, I've got a12 lot of other questions, but I think13 what we need to do, Mr. Chairman, is14 have our department and these people15 get together again. I would like to16 see from Corky some type of reports to17 us from your department and from you18 people again.19 MR. WOOD: Can I put in your

20 hands a two- or three-page document?21 This is an accumulation for all our22 neighboring states on the laws that23 they have. I put it all together.01041 This will possibly be presented into2 the legislature, if we have to go

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt3 lawwise with it.4 We would rather let --5 Speaker of the House, Seth Hammett said6 we need to get with Corky Pugh and

7 these people and Mr. Lawley and see if8 we can work out something through the9 Advisory Board, before we went into the10 State.11 MR. HATLEY: That's exactly12 what I'm telling you right now. That's13 what I'm telling our department. You14 people need to resolve this.15 There's no sense in us taking16 400 people sitting here all day trying17 to resolve something that could have18 been worked on and worked without you

19 having to come here and address us on20 this issue. So I would like to see21 that done.22 MR. WOOD: I've met with them23 on December 4th, and it's been two01051 months. He called me yesterday and2 said they would not support our --3 COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I think4 we're going to need to have a meeting5 with the Department of Health, instead

6 of a veterinarian, Corky, because we're7 taking the blame for a request from8 another state department, which is the9 Department of Health, and see if10 something can be worked out.11 You brought up some valid12 points, just some things that they may13 need to look at. You have to keep in14 mind, if their concern is the health of15 the people of Alabama, it trumps any16 card we have.

17 MR. WOOD: We understand18 that. We're just common hunters.19 I remember my uncle telling20 me, "It doesn't matter what kind of21 hunting you do, it all means something22 to that person."23 COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: That's

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt01061 right.2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Did you have3 one more question, Dr. Strickland?

4 DR. STRICKLAND: I just want5 to make a statement. I think this is a6 very, very important issue because I7 don't want the dog hunters to feel this8 Board is anti dog hunting. These9 issues that we have with dog hunting is10 the inability to control your dogs.11 The fox hunters are doing12 exactly what we would like to see them13 do. They have their hunting contained14 within pens. They're trying to abide15 by the law. We need to try to do

16 everything that we can to make sure17 that they can continue to do this18 sport.19 I would like for our20 Conservation Department to get with fox21 hunting organizations and see if we can22 work this out. Again, we have to make23 sure that we are not spreading disease.01071 Dr. May, do you feel that2 rabies is a real big issue with this

3 trapping and transfer? I think that's4 the issue that has to be resolved. If5 you feel that this is a big problem,6 then, absolutely, we don't want -- how7 big of an issue do you feel it is?8 DR. MAY: Well, I don't feel9 it's a huge issue unless you do have an10 outbreak. Then, it becomes a huge11 issue.12 DR. STRICKLAND: Of course --13 let me ask you one other question.

14 Have we had a recent significant15 outbreak of rabies?16 DR. MAY: No. Not that I17 know of in Alabama.18 MR. EDWARDS: Let's give19 Mr. Strickland a hand.20 MR. CHAIRMAN: The next

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt21 speaker will be Brandon Price from22 Madison, Alabama.23 MR. PRICE: Good morning. My0108

1 name is Brandon Price. I'm from2 Huntsville, Alabama. Madison County.3 I'm here on behalf of Southern4 Catfisherman Association.5 I just want to discuss6 quickly with y'all Alabama catfish7 conservation. You should have a8 briefing in front of you.9 For just a little bit of10 background, as most of you know,11 freshwater catfish are considered rough12 fish in the State of Alabama. They're

13 not game fish. They don't adhere to14 any size limit.15 Alabama is one of only a few16 states that does not consider catfish a17 game fish. Catfish is becoming18 increasingly popular in major circuits.19 Bass pro shops and (inaudible) have20 formed and are very successful with21 catfish circuits.22 Catfish have a massive impact23 as a top predator in the Tennessee

01091 River (inaudible) to our ecosystem.2 Currently, catfish are being3 transported live across state lines to4 northern pay ponds by commercial5 fishermen.6 There are three parties of7 interest that we have discovered by the8 meeting that Mr. Jones discussed in9 Tuscumbia and Guntersville in the past10 month. Some of these are commercial

11 market fisherman.12 The commercial fishermen make13 their livelihood off of fish sold to14 fish markets. They generally look for15 one- to five-pound catfish, from what16 we've discussed with (inaudible.)17 Commercial fishermen are

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt18 supporting lives. They're catching19 fish in deep nets and by other means,20 trout lines, and transporting them live21 across state lines to out-of-state pay

22 ponds.23 Then, there's sports01101 fishermen, which my group represents,2 that love the support of catfishing and3 love to eat catfish and love to catch4 catfish.5 The possible effects and6 concerns we have on the catfish7 population is the gradual drop in group8 stock of 30-plus pounds of catfish.9 These catfish are the breed stock.

10 As I said, they're great11 spawners. They protect their nests12 better. They'll breed the catfish that13 will populate our rivers for years to14 come.15 The eventual effects will16 affect the fish market and the17 commercial fishermen because they won't18 have the amount they once had.19 I would like to propose a20 one-catfish limit of one catfish over

21 34 inches in possession per day per22 person.23 Recognize catfish as a game01111 fish species, since Alabama is one of2 the few states that are not recognizing3 catfish as that.4 No transport of live catfish5 across state lines, and ensure laws6 that market fish where commercial7 catfishermen are not affected by these

8 commercial catfishermen that are9 carrying our natural resource across10 state lines.11 I have put my contact number12 on the briefing. Also, I have a13 petition that was started January 20th14 that was signed by 216 licensed Alabama

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advisoryboardmeetingcorrectedverison.txt15 and out-of-state fishermen, cat-16 fisherman and other sports fisherman17 alike.18 Thank you.

19 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Price,20 before you leave, I wasn't familiar21 with the Southern Catfisherman22 Association. Where are y'all based,23 and what is y'all's membership?01121 MR. PRICE: We are based in2 Arab, Alabama.3 Mike Mitchell is our4 president, and he has the flu today and5 could not attend.6 Our local membership is

7 approximately 30 to 40 catfishermen.8 We are a sub of the Brotherhood of9 Catfishermen, which has 5,000 members10 nationwide.11 MR. CHAIRMAN: