Butler v. Porsche - Join Class Action Lawsuits
Transcript of Butler v. Porsche - Join Class Action Lawsuits
Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, IncCase No.
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
Roy A. Katriel (SBN 265463)THE KATRIEL LAW FIRM, P.C.4225 Executive Square, Suite 600La Jolla, California 92037Telephone: (858) 242-5642Facsimile: (858) 430-3719E-mail: [email protected]
Michael D. Braun (SBN 167416)BRAUN LAW GROUP, P.C.1999 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 1100Los Angeles, California 90067Telephone: (310) 836-6000Facsimile: (310) 836-6010E-mail: [email protected]
Counsel for Plaintiff Paul Butler and the Putative Class
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
PAUL B. BUTLER, On Behalf OfHimself And All Others SimilarlySituated,
Plaintiff,
vs.
PORSCHE CARS NORTH AMERICA,INC.,
DDefendant.
CASE NO.
CLASS ACTION
COMPLAINT
JURY TRIAL DEMANDED
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 1 of 13
2Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
NATURE OF THE ACTION
1. Plaintiff Paul B. Butler (“Plaintiff” or “Butler”), a resident of California and
owner of a 2007 Porsche 911 vehicle, brings this action on behalf of himself and all
other similarly situated owners and lessees within California of 2005-2008 Porsche 911
vehicles (“the Class Vehicles”).1 As detailed, herein, the Class Vehicles are equipped
with a defective alternator cable that, due to its defective nature, malfunctions and
thereby prevents the alternator from properly charging the battery. As a result of the
defective alternator cable, the vehicle battery is left insufficiently charged, potentially
rendering the vehicle inoperable as there is insufficient electric charge to power the car.
Vehicles driven at the time the charge dissipates can be rendered disabled in the middle
of a road or highway. If the failure occurs in the evening, or during rain, the insufficient
battery charge may also render the vehicle’s headlights and other electrical equipment
inoperable even before the vehicle is disabled. Either situation poses a real and
significant safety risk.
2. Defendant Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (“Defendant” or “Porsche”)
has known about this defect but has failed to make any disclosure of it and has failed to
take any corrective action. Plaintiff, whose vehicle suffered the fate of a depleted
battery due to a defective alternator cable, therefore, brings this action to seek redress for
Porsche’s violations of the California Consumer Legal Remedies Act (“CLRA”) and
Unfair Competition Law (“UCL”). This Class Action Complaint seeks only equitable,
injunctive, and declaratory relief. Following the filing of this Class Action Complaint,
Plaintiff, through his counsel, will serve Porsche with a CLRA demand letter pursuant to
California Civil Code, § 1782. If, within the 30-day statutory demand notice period
following service of Plaintiff’s CLRA demand letter, Porsche does not provide the full
and complete relief demanded in the letter, then Plaintiff intends to amend this pleading
1 911 models are also referred to by Porsche as the 997 model.
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 2 of 13
3Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
to include, inter alia, a claim for money damages under the CLRA as is permitted under
California Civil Code, § 1782(d).
JURISDICTION AND VENUE
3. This Court has subject matter over this action pursuant to the Class Action
Fairness Act, 28 U.S.C. § 1332 (as amended 2005) because the Class Action Complaint
pleads a class action involving more than $5 million in controversy, and involves a
putative plaintiff class of diverse citizenship (California) than Defendant (Georgia).
4. This Court has personal jurisdiction over Defendant Porsche Cars North
America, Inc. because Defendant markets and distributes Porsche automobiles, including
the Class Vehicles, within California and this judicial district.
5. Venue is proper in this district because Plaintiff Butler is a resident of this
judicial district, his vehicle malfunctioned and was repaired within this judicial district,
such that the events giving rise to his claims took place within this judicial district.
Venue in this district is therefore proper pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1391.
THE PARTIES AND PLAINTIFF’S EXPERIENCES
6. Plaintiff Paul B. Butler is a resident of San Jose, California in Santa Clara
County, and the owner of a 2007 Porsche 911 S C2 Cabriolet. Just a few months ago,
when the vehicle had approximately 78,000 miles, and shortly after Mr. Butler had
replaced the battery with a brand new, fully charged battery, Mr. Butler found that the
key remained stuck in his vehicle and the car would not start. Plaintiff brought his
vehicle in for inspection and repair to Porsche of Stevens Creek, a Porsche factory-
authorized dealership in Santa Clara, California. The dealership mechanic found that
Mr. Butler’s new battery, indeed, was insufficiently charged, registering only 11.2 volts,
so the dealer recharged the battery to a reading of approximately 12.6 volts. Yet, when
the dealership’s mechanic next checked the charging system, he found that the charging
system was “insufficient.” The output voltage at the car’s alternator was measured to
read 13 volts, yet when measured at the battery, the reading only yielded 12.6 volts, a
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 3 of 13
4Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
voltage drop of 0.4 volts across the wiring harness from alternator to the battery. The
Porsche dealership’s mechanic then removed and replaced the alternator, and retested the
system. Again, the charging was found to be insufficient, even with a new alternator,
with now a 0.8 voltage drop between the “good battery and alternator.” Only when the
dealership mechanic replaced the wiring harness from the alternator did the car’s
charging system work properly and charge the battery to a full 14.4 volts, such that all
the faults could be cleared. Plaintiff was billed and paid $3,180.44 for this repair work.
A true and correct copy of the Porsche of Stevens Creek repair order is attached hereto
as Exhibit 1.
7. Defendant Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (“Defendant” or “Porsche”) is
a Delaware corporation having its principal place of business at One Porsche Drive in
Atlanta, Georgia 30354. Established in 1984, Defendant is the exclusive importer of
Porsche vehicles for the United States and is a wholly owned subsidiary of Dr. Ing. h.c.
F. Porsche AG, which is headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany. As such, Defendant was
the entity responsible for injecting Plaintiff’s Porsche vehicle and the Class Vehicles into
the United States stream of commerce.
INTRADISTRICT ASSIGNMENT
8. Pursuant to Civil Local Rules 3-2(e) and 3-5(b), Plaintiff alleges that this
action should be assigned to this Court’s San Jose Division. Plaintiff is a resident of San
Jose, California and his allegedly defective vehicle is and, at all times relevant, was
found there. The vehicle malfunctioned in San Jose, and was repaired at Porsche of
Stevens Creek, a Porsche factory-authorized dealership in Santa Clara, California. Thus,
the events giving rise to Plaintiff’s claims all arose in Santa Clara County.
THE PERVASIVE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM
9. Plaintiff’s experience with a defective wiring between the alternator and the
battery is hardly anomalous. Instead, it is a pervasive defect documented in Porsche 997
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 4 of 13
5Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
Class Vehicles across the country. Upon information and belief, the defect in the Class
Vehicles appears to be attributable to a defect in the selection of material, gauge or other
characteristic of the wiring or harness between the alternator or battery that results in
insufficient charging of the battery. So pervasive is the problem, that a host of message
boards for aggrieved Porsche owners has arisen online. Even a cursory sampling of
these online complaints evidences how commonplace the problem is.
10. Attached as Exhibit 2 hereto are postings at the online message board
6speedonline.com . The particular message board forum is entitled 05-06
Alternator/Cable Battery Issues and contains numerous postings by owners of the
Porsche Class Vehicles who have experienced this same issue. One such posting dated
August 9, 2013 from user “schicago” in Chicago, Illinois , for example, states:
Alternator CablePorsche should cover the cable and replacement. It is a widespread problem,and it proves that the design and location of the “Y” cable is faulty. Itshould not take 6+ hours to replace a Y cable.
Ex. 2 hereto at Page 8.
11. Another user, “Super Adjuster,” posted the following message on July 16,
2013:
I had a bad cable replaced. The trickle charger helped with the cold start butnot the hot start. The cable loses conductivity as it heats because it runs nearthe engine and transmission. So, the voltage from the battery cannot get tothe starter motor to start the engine after it is hot. I got stranded at a gasstation for quite a while because I couldn't get voltage to the starter. Jumpingdidn't help. I had to wait for the wire to cool.
So, sluggish starting after driving is the tale-tale symptom of a badalternator/starter cable. It's not the battery as so many are talked intoreplacing by misinformed service advisors.
Id., at Page 3.12. Yet another user, “AP 997S,” posted the following message on the forum
on the same day, July 16, 2013:
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 5 of 13
6Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
Precisely the problem. I replaced my cable on my recently sold 2005 997 acouple of years ago and the problem was solved. Trickle chargingthe battery has little, if any, effect on a faulty (high resistancewire/connection) starter/alternator cable.
Forget the 'Battery Tender' and bite the bullet and get the cable replaced w/the latest version. If you're still under warranty or CPO PCNA shouldreplace it at no charge.
Please . . . . . no more suggestions to charge the battery!Id.
13. Porsche has known all along about the existence of the alleged defect.
Indeed, by the time that Plaintiff’s 2007 model year vehicle was first sold, Porsche had
received numerous complaints about the insufficient charging brought about by the
defective wiring and wiring harness between the alternator and battery of the Class
Vehicles. So much so, that Porsche issued a Technical Service Bulleting (“TSB”)
instructing its dealership’s mechanics about the nature of this problem and directing
them to replace the wire. Yet, despite this knowledge of the defect and the TSB it issued
to its dealerships and mechanics, Porsche never made any disclosure to consumers or the
putative class members about the defect plaguing the Class Vehicles.
14. Rather than recalling or replacing the defective wire, even when the wiring
failed, Porsche has washed its hands of any responsibility and forced unsuspecting
consumers to pay for the replacement and repair. Plaintiff Butler, thus was charged
$3,180.44 by the Porsche dealership that replaced the defective wiring in his car.
15. At the same time, Porsche quietly discontinued using the same wiring in
future model years of the Porsche 997 vehicles. Upon information and belief, following
the 2007 model year for the 997 Porsche vehicles, Porsche began using a different
version of the wiring between the alternator and battery that no longer presents the
alleged defect. Yet, while it did so for post-2007 model year 997 vehicles, Porsche left
in place the old defective wiring and took no action with respect to the Class Vehicles.
16. Because the insufficient charging of the electrical system brought about by
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 6 of 13
7Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
the allegedly defective wiring poses a real and serious safety risk and hazard, Porsche
had a legal duty to disclose to owners of the Class Vehicles the existence of this defect,
but failed to do so.
CLASS ACTION ALLEGATIONS
17. Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 23, Plaintiff brings this action
as a class action on behalf of all owners within California of the Class Vehicles.
Specifically excluded from the class are all judicial officers assigned to this case, as well
as all federal and state employees, and the employees of Defendant or its corporate
affiliates. Also excluded from the class definition are any individuals who allegedly
have suffered personal injuries as a result of the alleged defects. Plaintiff reserves the
right to amend or supplement this class definition as discovery or other case
development warrant.
18. Although the exact number of class members is presently unknown,
Plaintiff is informed and believes and thereon alleges, based on the prevalence of
Porsche 911 vehicles sold and present in California that the class will number in the
thousands of consumers, thereby making joinder impracticable.
19. Class certification is also appropriate because there are questions of fact
and/or law that are common to the class members. Among these common questions of
fact and/or law are:
a. Whether Defendant is responsible for injecting allegedly defective
vehicles in to the United States’ stream of commerce;
b. Whether the subject vehicles are defective, and, if so, the nature of the
defect;
c. Defendant’s knowledge and Defendant’s concealment of the defect;
d. Whether Defendant violated (i) California’s UCL, (iii) the California
CLRA;
e. Whether class members are entitled to the relief sought, and if so, the
proper scope of such relief.
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 7 of 13
8Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
20. Plaintiff’s claims are typical of the claims of the absent class members in
that Plaintiff, like all the absent class members, claims that he is a California resident and
owner of a Class Vehicle that was factory-equipped with defective wiring between the
car’s alternator and wiring that resulted in improper or insufficient charging of the car’s
electrical system. Plaintiff is a member of the class he seeks to represent, and the claims
he advances on his own behalf are identical to the claims asserted on behalf of the class.
21. Plaintiff is an adequate class representative in that, as a member of the class
and as a current owner of an allegedly defective Class Vehicle, Plaintiff’s interests are
entirely aligned with those of the class. There are no individual conflicts that prevent
Plaintiff from adequately representing the class. Plaintiff has also retained competent
counsel experienced in class action litigation.
22. Class certification is proper because common questions of fact and law
predominate over questions that may affect only individual members of the class. The
subject vehicles are manufactured on an assembly line setting, subject to a common
design and manufacturing plan, such that evidence of a defect in the wiring between the
alternator and the battery of the car would be one that would predominate over the entire
class membership, as would evidence of Defendant’s course of action, knowledge of the
alleged defect, and any alleged concealment thereof.
23. A class action presents a superior form of adjudication over individual
litigation. The costs of litigating this action against a large and sophisticated defendant
like Defendant in comparison to the recovery or relief sought would make individual
litigation impracticable. In addition, forcing individual litigation would risk the result of
inconsistent rulings with respect to Defendant’s duties owed to the various vehicle
owners and lessees.
24. A class action is manageable. The proposed class represents an identifiable
community that can be readily identified, and the relief sought is one that can be
overseen by the Court.
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 8 of 13
9Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
COUNT I(VIOLATION OF THE CALIFORNIA CONSUMER LEGAL REMEDIES
ACT, CAL. CIV. CODE §1750 et. seq.)25. Plaintiff hereby incorporates by reference each of the preceding allegations
as though fully set forth herein.
26. Defendant has violated the following provisions of Cal. Civ. Code §1750
et. seq.:
(a) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(5): by representing that its goods or services have
sponsorship, approval, characteristics, ingredients, uses, benefits, or quantities which
they do not have;
(b) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(7): by representing that its goods or services are of
a particular standard, quality, or grade, if they are of another;
(c) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(9): by advertising goods and services with the
intent not to sell them as advertised;
(d) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(14): by representing that its subscription service
confers or involves rights, remedies, or obligations which it does not have or involve;
(e) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(16): by representing that the subject of a
transaction has been supplied in accordance with a previous representation when it has
not.
27. Defendant undertook the above and acts or practices in transactions
intended to result, or which did result, in the sale of its vehicles to customers for
personal, family, or household use.
28. Plaintiff and the members of the putative class are all “consumers” within
the meaning of the CLRA.
29. Because the defective wiring, which results in insufficient charging of the
car’s electrical system, poses a real and serious safety risk (which could lead to the car
being totally disabled or having any of its electrical components rendered inoperable
without prior warning), Porsche had a duty to disclose to class members the existence of
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 9 of 13
10Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
this defect. Porsche failed to disclose this defect to Plaintiff or members of the putative
class.
30. Defendant has therefore violated the Consumers Legal Remedies Act, and
in this pleading, Plaintiff prays for declaratory, equitable and injunctive relief authorized
by that Act.
31. Pursuant to Cal. Civ. Code §1782, Plaintiff will serve Defendant with a
written demand letter, setting forth Plaintiff’s claims and demand. If, after 30 days of
receipt of that demand letter, Defendant fails to provide the full and complete requested
relief demanded in Plaintiff’s CLRA letter, Plaintiff intends on then amending this Class
Action Complaint to, at that time, also assert a claim for money damages for the
violations of the CLRA alleged.
COUNT II
(VIOLATION OF CALIFORNIA’S UNFAIR COMPETITION LAW, CAL. BUS.
AND PROFESSIONS CODE, § 17200 ET. SEQ.).
32. Plaintiff hereby incorporates by reference each and every allegation of this
Class Action Complaint with the same force and effect as if it these allegations had been
fully restated herein.
33. California’s Unfair Competition Law (“UCL”) prohibits and makes
actionable any unlawful, unfair, or deceptive business practice. Defendant’s actions, as
alleged herein, in connection with the marketing and distribution of the Class Vehicles
with a latent defect to their wiring between the alternator and battery amount to, at least,
an unlawful and deceptive business practice and, hence, a violation of the UCL.
34. For at least the reasons alleged in Count I of this Class Action Complaint,
Porsche’s actions are an unlawful business practice in that Porsche’s violation of the
CLRA is independently an unlawful business practice that is actionable under the UCL.
35. Porsche’s marketing, distribution, and sale through its factory-authorized
dealers of the subject vehicles without disclosing the existence of the latent defect
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 10 of 13
11Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
plaguing the cars’ wiring also amounts to a deceptive business practice within the
meaning of the UCL. The conduct was deceptive because it was intended to and did
mislead and deceive Plaintiff and the class members. Had Porsche disclosed to Plaintiff
that the Class Vehicle contained a latent defect that would result in his vehicle being
rendered non-driveable when it did, even when equipped with a brand new battery
and/or alternator, Plaintiff would not have purchased his vehicle or paid as much as he
did for it. Defendant knew that if it were to make such a disclosure as to the existence of
this latent defect, consumers at large would feel and react similarly and forego their
purchases of these vehicles or pay less for them. As a result, Porsche intentionally
elected to conceal its knowledge of this existing latent defect.
36. As a direct, proximate, and foreseeable result of Porsche’s unlawful and/or
deceptive business practice, Plaintiff and the putative class members have sustained an
ascertainable loss in that: they are left with a significant expense to have their vehicles
repaired to remedy the defective wiring (for example, Plaintiff was charged and paid
$3,180.44 for the repair work necessitated by the defective wiring in his Class Vehicle);
their vehicles have sustained a loss or diminution of value as a result of this undisclosed
defect; and, have or will incur incidental damages attributable to the loss of use of the
vehicle during the time that the vehicles are being repaired.
37. Moreover, Plaintiff and the class members conveyed monies and benefits to
Porsche in the form of, inter alia, the purchase price or lease payments for their vehicles,
and the repair and parts costs for their vehicles to repair the damage caused by the defect
at issue.
38. Plaintiff and the class members are entitled to and do seek an order of
restitution forcing Porsche to restore to them the benefits and monies they conveyed to
Porsche in connection with their purchase of the subject vehicles or any repair or
replacement of the defective wiring of these vehicles.
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 11 of 13
12Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
PRAYER FOR RELIEF
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff and the class members pray for judgment against
Defendant as follows:
a) That the Court determine that this action may be litigated as a class action, and
that Plaintiff and his counsel be appointed class representative and class
counsel, respectively;
b) That the Court enter judgment against Defendant and in favor of Plaintiff and
the class on all counts;
c) That Defendant be ordered to bear the cost of notice the absent class members;
d) That restitution or disgorgement be awarded to each Plaintiff and class member
according to proof;
e) That the Court enter appropriate declaratory relief, declaring the vehicles
defective and setting forth Defendant’s obligations with respect to the repair of
the defect, and provide any and all appropriate equitable or injunctive relief in
favor of the members of the Class to effectuate this relief;
f) That Plaintiff and the class members be awarded all such other relief as this
Court deems just and proper.
Plaintiff requests a jury trial on all counts so triable.
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 12 of 13
13Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
Dated this 19th day of April, 2016.
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ Roy A. Katriel_________________Roy A. Katriel (SBN 265463)THE KATRIEL LAW FIRM4225 Executive Square, Suite 600La Jolla, CA 92037Telephone: (858) 242-5642Facsimile: (858) 430-3719e-mail: [email protected]
Michael D. Braun (SBN 167416)BRAUN LAW GROUP, P.C.1999 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 1100Los Angeles, California 90067Telephone: (310) 836-6000Facsimile: (310) 836-6010e-mail: [email protected]
Counsel for Plaintiff Paul Butler and the Putative Class
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 13 of 13
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 1 of 4
EXHIBIT 1 TO COMPLAINT
Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Ina,
ex
PAULEMORMIONOMOPHONe
JOBIS
.LLNQ.
CQM
CELL 669W65/16
0ooLoR,SILVER/OEINE, Rt DATZ
05/27/07Mime ccossA Na
188a
02/01116
*moat&POCS90908
STOCKNo.1,4908ADEUVERYIAM
76621POONPUCTroNagg
m, r. vvilrOWV12.55v. Checked charging system, inSufficlent. charging at12.6 to battery when loaded_ rn.,44.1 riniquA.
Ain iu umtREFEFLALARO SPECIFICATIONS OR TIRE INFLATIONRENCE
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 2 of 4
4-,,
elm PORSCHE of STEVENS CREEKpp- 4155 Stevens Creek Boulevardta Clara, California 95051111111611r4" Sall.Nle(4(8) 247-1655. Fax: (408) 260-6191. Wholesale. (408) 260-6143
7 8 2 37 grsAKAI 466rNc'9829PAUL B BUTLER L.117;FtN*2 P11-1141E 78, 23237 iiipiamimmo.# 7030 VEA41,141M11030elSAN 305E, cA 95128 07/PORSCHE/911 C2 S CABRIO/cv
mom,1.43.ms.WPOCO2 9 9175 7755 72
EiAFIA11241=8D4OWSINOVIN*10r,AFTATES:THAT'THE BATTERY REP
favAta) ligigatteo- -1g35 'EPA CALM97821CUSTOMEFTSTWAS CACED A FEW MONTHSAGO. NOW THE KEY IS STUCK AND THE CAR.WILL NOT STARTPLEASE INSPECT AND REPORTtested available amnprano. nAceorF C+m+4.inspected- battery voltage low 11.2v. Charged batteryLand
UiinsuffiCient. 13.0v at alt-output :4GF.-lt'd;op of power.r LVIAIOUN
harness. Removed and replaced alternator. Retested system-alternator outPut Proper: fOund voltage'OPP of POWerharnesS excessive. .BV drop with.good battery andalternator,RemOved -and replaced power harneas from trans tb alternator.Also replated seeping breather line frommaPcr seParator tointake. Tested- system functioning properly. charging It14.4V to battery. All faults cleared. adeptions set-
PARTS. QTY, -FP-NUMBER1 997-503-022:-EX GENERATOR 123834 1238.741 999=703-257-40 BUSH.. 4.00 4.00-1 997-503-022-EX CORE RETURN 155.74 -155.74.1, 997-107-145-02 DISTRIBUTCR LI 131.00 131.00.1 997-507-01943. -AS CABLE LOON 175.00 175.00
TOTAL PARTS 1393.00G--06; & SUPPLIES.,,FREIGHT (PARTS). 75.54
TOTAL GOO 75.54NISO-----COOE-- -.-DESCRIPTION-.,. '(A0,41ROL NOPOI PORSCHE 10t PARTS DISCOUNT -139.30P02 PORSCHE 10t.LaR DISCOUNT -193.50
TOTAL. MISC. -332.60108# imks-.
LABOR •1935.00PARTS 1393.00G.O.G. 75.54HISC, -032.80
mit .2 alv,, 2C6# 1 JOURNAL PREFIX POCS JOB#. 1 TOTAL 3070.74
'3'..-7' 4' 1 -4, *-Tr4R&VIREILAWL',4•4'W '''444'''"*"471f104111111#14t7ra; 0 00AS PER CALIFORNIA VEHICLE CODE SECTION 95550.-PLEASE INFLATFCD.STOIIERS TIRES TO 'RECOMMENDED TIRE PRESSURE -RATING".
PAGE 4:}F CUSTOMER;COP* IWNTINIM:KPiNP'4.PAOEI WA=ERAIMINE Sism
rAu.1•1•11.1111:RempecePtsoNe
6694111111011,CALIFCRNIA AIR RESOURCE BOARD FIES;ILATTONTO iuspuq.MEENI4f14 nig rurcesnue ronuo
0OuMarat
0. 4 1R1187/01/ 6
78232
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 3 of 4
1.-Fkgresuii1
PORSCHE of STEVENS CREEKurns 4155 Stevens Creek BoulevardSanta Clara, California 9505111E6."Nllv, (408) 247-1655 Fax: (408) 260-6191 Wholesale.. (408) 260-6i43
78237 ..$0, MG NO. MOMOM iNvOeCeCELL: 669-4IaRON SAKAI 466 9829 02/05/16 POCS90908PAUL B BUTLER j5ZWR249 m"E
78, 230'S/ LVER/yon/monimmil *FT4tick8A237 1111111111111111NOWIV70,.30 07/PORSCHE/911 C2 CABRIO/CV OOLNEPly DEUVERY NILESSAN JOSE, CA-9517B 05/27/07 76, 621%too= MtnSeuroicDEALER No. PaceocromCATEWPOC 8 2 9 9 1 7 5 7 7 5 5 7 2 .188
MO:
455i 5-it:mg ifig. rAvn masc.= UrtKRUJAH WITH BAR AF124132.8Inspeit Tire Inflation All EPA CAL 00029782136# 2 TOTALS
x# PGE5 JP* .IOURNOV- PREFIX POCS JOE* -2' TOTAL 0.003 CPP,
RSOPAZAKOSCiiiiii#RVeSCIIE INSPECTICAI7 0,x1pHF1J4 PCil r STFVENS CREEK PLJL-ii POINT IhSPZOTIAPE r..1- *MED MULTI. POINT INSPECTION.
JOBt 3 JOURNAL PREFIX MOS- JOB# 3 iciAL 0.00
-VAIMAERTAti 0, vOHERTZ RENTAL VEHICLEt YOU, THE CUSTOMER, ARE RESPONSIBLEFCR FUEL, INSURANCE, AND TAXES DURING RENTAL PERIOD. YOUARE ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ADDITIONAL RENTAL DAYS, UNLESSPRIOR ARRANGEMENTS ARE MADE WITH STEVENS CREEK PDRSCHE mrs,VEHICLE IS COMPLIMENTARY FOR 24 HQURS,-PROVIDED HERTI.RENTAL VEHICLE1
3It 4 TOTALS.
Joa# 4 JOURNAL PREFIX POCS JC(3# 4 TOTAL3# 5 CH.f.,..Es 0'40
201418%**ES tZ7i.LIC."."40111111011114161010111610$41110111V1P7.4,401•7.-CTION .TECHNICIAN FOUND YELLOW BRAKE(S):ADVISED OF FUTURE REPAIR NEEDS
JO* 6; JOURNAL,PREFIX PCCS .3.10# in7AL 0'ANI 6 CHARGES...-..
rk4WPORiaglia*Nall'itagaigaft'*4.4,c-eON INSPECTION TECHNIrIAN FOUND RED- TIRE(S)CUSTOMER DECLINED 'SERVICES6 TOTALS
JOR# fi JOURNAL PREFIX POCS MO 6 vrAL 0.0
PAGE 2 OF 2 OLIETOMEN DOPY (CONTINGEO ON NEXT- PAGE] 0$ 3tipm4.A444,4***4#,AmilmNlm E.0101060
phtmomt02/05/1
mOWLVER/
DeLfVERYOATS0S /27/07
p, ;c11111111*)POCS90908
VAICK NOP4908A041VORYMN.65
7.6, 621smummmutsa118.
Ka02/01/16opcoucnottJIVE
Nicr: 78232
:A141111WIIIMMIOL rteml_
CCAIIMENT4
0
CELL 669
61.5, 9111•16 rarnakm T./WM.1M WC*
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 4 of 4
pang _Hsi
PORSCHE of STEVENS CREEKEaElm 4155 Stevens Creek BoulevardSanta Clara, California 95051‘11161'1""1111119 (408) 247-1655 Fax: (408) 260-6191 Wholesale: (408) 260-6143
78237 r 419829RON SAKAI 466
PAUL B BUTLER 5214R749 78, 2237 illasignigNiwIt 7030 671115ESTINE/91.1. C2 S CABRI0/CVSAN 3 OS,E7-CA
MitatW. NO.WPOCS2 9 9 1 7 7 7 5 5 7 2
IsTOHER HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGES RECEIVING BAR A11241328CRIGINAL ESTIMATE Of 40:00 (+TAX)...PROVED REVISED ESTIMATE 1) OF $3739; 00- (TAI) 'ON 02/05116 AT 05:$1* EPA CAL 0802911321r-PAUL B BUTLER CDMMENTS)4/ IN1ETED OPERATION(S '-1.--.....:PORBATTERY RED BiTTERY
i1ToTAL LABoR, 1935.00
TOTAL PARTS.... 1393.00: If 1 asH r 3 CHECK 'CK NO, 1 1 TOTAL SUBLET.:. 0 00 iTOTAL •G. 0.G.. 75,54.I 1 VISA I MASTERCARD t 1 CMARa 4, TOTAL MISC dia. OMTOTAL MISC DISC .332 :DO:TOTAL TAX, 109..70:
ANK YOU FOR CHOOSING. PORSCHE OF STEVENS CREEK TOTAL INVOICE 3180.44U NAY RECEIVE A BRIEF- SURWY ABOUT TOWS SERVICE.TM A SCORE OF IV OR -EimuiNr PLEASE CALL
FOR ANY REASON YOU CANNOT -ANSWER ALL QUESTIONS 1R SERVICE DIRECTOR HIKE SQUATRITTO. 40E•247.1655.. IARE A CALIFORN IA USED OIL RECYCLING CENTER; t t
1WS [OMER SIGNATURE
1,1
'PAGE 3 OF 3 CUSTOMER COPY I END OF,INVOICE 1 041E•prn
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 1 of 13
EXHIBIT 2 TO COMPLAINT
Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc.,
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 2 of 13
4/15/2016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue -6SpeedOnlne -Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource
Pagel-
i I.Forums 1 Gallery I Members I Tools I Marketplace I New Posts 1 Register I Log In
Search... Search
A 4 ii1j.40111) W.
•P,1:nvelL0Fyiwneii:17ries.elr
..wAnywhere.
05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue
FUI• POST REPLY eage 1 of 21 1 2 IIII I
1 G+1,,I 0 Tweet
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread
I L07-12-2013, 11:25AM;Join Date: Dec 2009Location: CT USAPosts: 162°41114110% sullivas8Rep Power: 13
Registered User
05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue
Before my extended warranty runs out I'd like to make sure the alternator cable is not one of thefaulty ones.
Was there a TSB on the matter? I have searched but can't flnd one. If there is one, does anyone issPeenorxineknow the number? Thanks.COM
DREGISTER NOW
infolink
You mieht also like)75.›):
row ft -MOON %or "VW llome NNIF Mr/,UP,
fil11PM who switch theirAuto Insurance. .411r. MN! dhAkl91179411http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/312584-05-06-atternator-batteiy-cable-issue.htni age 1/6
Ott••PERFORMANCE YO CA
Ntl a timOtvifid GittlX*4141ifyLarben thditoultiniputilurwsi.., rdir-dloptenwhiclerasks.aldiroleb
SHIPNOW
SE-I
65DeedOnline Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource '1User Narnekker Name i I I Remember Me?Porsche (Present) 997
Log In Lug In, Password E Lep. isF.,: 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue1 f's.
.....i. t,I, LIAg- Forgot Password?
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search..s. 4 Cars Vendor Directory,
I NodcesI
The New Garage Talk ADD is Live for both Android & lOS1
Win a Trip To A Race Weekend at Laguna Seca Raceway!
q997 Current model of the 911 C2, C2S, C4, C4S, GTS, Targa and Cabriolet Discussion.
11Sponsored By HRE Wheels
44ARP tn=7-4 ritiutarc fluor RA t
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 3 of 13
4/15/2016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue.- 8SpeedOnline Porsche Forum and Luxury Car ResourceNisiommattikeleilibeimillail cIve en a c2vcs aNte WI W'CLAil '46111.1.16211.1.111111"1111.1111111111.111111
a 1Li 5-'-•"-.'1,13 o701 PM n1. IZIPAGOW
Join Date: Oct 2006 ii.tiLtiiocaon: Hermosa Beach .1. Giohalmotof. munoPosts: 1, 013-4-, AP 9975 Re• Power: 61.
--.7.".. '1,atutt
Registered User ..7:', 01111‘.i
i, ler„4_, ''i1.
I dont believe there was a TSB for that problem. If you simply tell your SA that your car really, r
cranks slow when warm and have them check the resistance.: gmeii.Refer to thefollowing:..ii.htto://rennsportkc.com/Dorsche-997-a—t-kansas-ci••tv/,.
MOO it
1314LIN$htto://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...w-voltage.htmi2014 98105 ‘10WilLAEAFORMANCESHOOLCOht2005 997$Launch Car Gone2001 986$-Gone.1956 356AGone, -STREE-HS1 'AN DAp
QUOTE.
k.....::_,.......J...,
1.00.9CINCE
u 07-13-2013, 10:28 AM 41 i
Join Date: Dec 2009. gor/a.Location: CT USA.Posts: 162 pfg.rofirkr4,,V /ffri$1.etIVsullivas Rep Power: 13.i:.0,0
f ARegistered User
i tslhahncccelEnierctThanksAP.
Air, 9•
113 QUOTE. ASSP ‘STARMAC FR r;t:
i 0744-2013, 04:00 PM
iloin Date: Apr 7007.Gpjli Location: long island
4 Posts: 1,303. 840MBACHER''i Registered User amPeieffi4j4
EVOSPEE:12.i Trickle charger makes this a non issue and prolongs battery life. I would think though that if youhad this problem you'd know by now. •fr 4...n.13:13y kogitstel:m.,1,4
112 QUOTE.
Li m 113 ns.ln PIA 415.4V00'kgi
nir-3494300-A.0810/Pe Join Date: Oct2006.
i, ..ar Location: Flerrnosa Beach: IIMI-11040=01P0111:11E._Posts: 1,013
Allftio.. AP 997S Re. Power: 61 I
11.1‘11,11r.Registered User Ig:310, ;74movkm4k4
Z.i Quote: NET CAROriginally Posted by GpjliZJ,;Trickle charger makes this a non issue and prolongs battery life. I would think though,1.that if you had this problem you'd know by now.
..:;1,tIt's not a battery problem but a voltage drop across the cable due to wire size and/or.terminations.
C.ARBON ROM
2014 981C8 4.2005 997S Launch Car Gone 3.2001 9865- Gone1956 356A Gone
....-ira QUOTE.
Suf.,4031:1A,...sTL.::. 07-15-2013, 0923 AM #6;. Al
PORSCH t: str„Join Date: Apr 2007 R!IGpjli Location: long island,.Posts: 1,303 i
Page2- 2/6http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/312584-05-06-altemator-battery-cable-issue.html
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 4 of 13
4/15/2016 05-06 Altemator/Batteiy Cable Issue -6SpeedOnline Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource
iaPower: 74:KegisteredUser.
3--c..1„_•ttruMw., tur 1g CornQuote:.
1 SCO,i21,o -2I Originally Posted by AP 997S 0It's not a battery problem but a voltage drop across the cable due to wire size and/or: 3W 11.).. nisrrioionmterminations.
Law:, automgc. Acceslmas
(702) 430-66221, As long as I keep battery on charger a couple days a week I do not have the problem. State of lcharge seems to be a factor in my experience. This is not a solution of course. -;146--la QUOTE ?=:trit--1Eri
rY\P:',L'i.,U07-16-2013, 10:47 AM
'GEOUR#7 i.
*I...e.by per.i.1, f,..a,, fa., f
Join Dte: Dec 2009,Location:aCT USA 888.250.9074
1 sullivas Posts: 162.Rep Power: 13.6 EABSPEE!gisteredUser,:
i MT C
PERFORMAI, CEn1...,-LS,WWW.FABSPEED.COM
I always have the Battery Tender on. What's weird is that after I drive the car it takes a while:for the Tender to go green. Could take hours, you'd think after a long drive a 1 year old battery ESMOTORwould not need more charging.If I put a voltmeter in the cig outlet while driving the car at flrst it registers 14+ charge but afterit gets hot the charging drops to 13.3-13.6. If there's an issue I want to get it resolved before my1€ EW runs out.
1€,1. 113 auoTE 1
r C 11 7 11141,11. CIR. DVS'
._41101..._ I SUSPENSIOND07-16-2013, 11 1
rtLEPHANt. Ng..:..,I
Join Date: Jan 2012 4: wv,wElivh,,, e.:R.,e,no con,Posts: 273,
ir Power: 16SuperAdjuster. K..,
4,egistered UserL
A
stinverpktisI had a bad cable replaced. The trickle charaer helped wfth the cold start but not the hot start.The cable loses conductivity as it heats because it runs near the engine and transmission. So, thevoltage from the battery cannot get to the starter motor to start the engine after it is hot. I got itti zotosupERsmittestranded at a gas station for quite a while because I couldn't get voltage to the starter. Jumpingdidn't help. I had to wait for the wire to cool. 4411.11141,t'ii.'
PAM'MIAMINI.MUNSo, sluggish starting after driving is the tale-tale symptom of a bad alternator/starter cable. It'sE
1.1111.53.1.1%;4142111not the battery as so many are talked into replacing by misinformed service advisors.
Currently.€-N2006 Carrera 4Scab.
2008 CayenneS.2007 Chevy Avalanche LTZ4WD.ElitePro-150FD. bug emenwnim
0 0110-1.E,: ;4'1, $5L, i
L J07-16-2013, 11:53 AM #9,DE I NWHP, K5
Join Date: Oct 2006,"V Location: Hermosa Beach.Posts: 1, 013
alimpirer: 61
amovemfRegistered UserliOTORsPoirr4.
Precisely the problem. I replaced my cable on my recently sold 2005 997 a couple of years agoand the problem was solved. Trickle charging the battery has little, if any, effect on a faulty (high
Cileic, To Save Onresistance wire/connection) starter/alternator cable. li lI A F TFRMA Pa TI- Forget the 'Battery Tender' and bite the bullet and get the cable replaced w/ the latest version. If AT SUFPFAISIIIVyou're still under warranty or CPO PCNA should replace it at no charge.,.
Please no more suggestions to charge the battery!
Originally Posted by Super Adjuster alI had a bad cable replaced. The trickle charger helped with the cold start but not the hotstart. The cable loses conductivity as it heats because it runs near the engine and
Page3-http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/312584-05-06-altemator-battery-cabbAme.htM1 3/6
STUDIO RSR
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 5 of 13
4/15/2016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue 6SpeedOnline Porsche Forum and Luxuty Car Resource
transmission. So, the voltage from the battery cannot get to the starter motor to start:I: the engine after it is hot. I got stranded at a gas station for quite a while because I1: couldn't get voltage to the starter. Jumping didn't help. I had to wait for the wire to cool.:
g So, sluggish starting after driving is the tale-tale symptom of a bad alternator/starter drAcable. It's not the battery as so many are talked into replacing by misinformed service
11 advisors. 111E511111i; 2014 98105
2005 997S Launch Car Gone!I 2001 986SGone:
aafrifiOW1956 3564Gone:
P4C2FA=r.-1E'ii l a QUOTE
I i _107-17-2013, 08:57 PM #1.a: 1:71....itierJoin Date: Jul 2C08 j;1 Bnrnlejo Location: MA
i
i.Posts: 59.gistered User fialliower: 13 Irk.
Good to know about this, going by the thread title it seems this is not an Issue with 07s and up?: ..6, 1l., EL Trrwa-7va-rr a:Can anybody confirmthat?,
10 QUOTE
i I:1 07-18-2013, 08:56 AM #.a. I
Join Date: Mar 2012JimKan Location: New Brunswick lli.j... Posts: 4 :1Registered User Rep Power: 0
i I've seen a detailed how to replace the cable here on 6speed.
jia quoTE.
U07-18-2013, 10:35 AM #12 1
il sill livas Power: 13
Registered User
RepIIJoinDate: Dec 2009 ll
Location: CT USA I:Posts: 162
ii Quote:
Originally Posted by BanilejoGood to know about this, going by the thread title it seems this is not an issue with 075and up? Can anybody confirm that?
I believe they beefed up the cable for 06, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
QUOTE
1:02xl #12 I
j‘k* Join Date: :Ian 2012Posts: 2734°'Rep Power: 16
Adjuster so
Registered User;Z,
Mine is an 06 C4S cab and needed the cable replacement. My dealer charged the aftermarketwarranty company about $1200 for the job. I've heard of quotes as high as $1900. The part is
j only a couple hundred, but there's lots of labor. The wire snakes through many tight spots.
j Currently2006 Carrera 4S cab2008 Cayenne S2007 Chevy Avalanche LTZ 4WDElite Pro-150FD
QuoTE
#14
Page4-http://www.6speedonline.comlforums/997/312584-05-06-altemator-battery-cable-issue.htni 4/6
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 6 of 13
4115/2016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue 6SpeedOnine Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource107-18-2013, 05:09 PM
Gpjli Join Date: Apr 2007 Page5-Location: long islandPosts: 1,303
Registered Usern Power: 74
assf&SMED
Quote:
Originally Posted by AP 997S EPrecisely the problem. I replaced my cable on my recently sold 2005 997 a couple ofyears ago and the problem was solved. Trickle charging the battery has little, if any,effect on a faulty (high resistance wire/connection) starter/alternator cable.
Forget the 'Battery Tender' and bite the bullet and get the cable replaced w/ the latestversion. If you're still under warranty or CPO PCIVA should replace it at no charge.Please no more suggestions to charge the battery!
find that a problem. 01
Excuse me. Let me be clear here. I own an 06 S and am on my second battery.
From,the outsetof ownership my experience has been that without the trickle charge I get hot start/slow crank
issue. With it I do not. Make what you like of that but you being argumentative changes nothing.I understand the nature of the problem. This has worked for me as I am reporting. Sorry if you
111 QUOTE
107-19-2013, 12:33 AM 441
Join Date: Jun 2012Location: Calgarye kellym Posts: 16Rep Power: 0
Registered User
I've had slow crank issues as well, to the point of getting a dead battery and I've been strandedseveral times while parked away from home. The battery was less than a year old at the time,1- although it was some OEM brand the previous owner put in. I took my 911 into my dealer under.CPO warranty and they replaced the alternator cable at no charge, thinking they solved theproblem. My car is a 2005 C2S.
Something the dealer service rep told me was very interesting: the alternator does not always,charge the battery while driving. I was told this is for performance reasons. So my Porsche 997seems to be really hard on batteries, especially with stop-park-start again type driving aroundtown, and the battery really wears down.
Now with a new alternator cable and also a new Interstate battery I still sense some slowercranking after a bunch of driving-parking-driving again around town. I don't notice the slowercrank speeds at all if I've had the trickle charger on the night before, which tells me the batteryisn't getting fully charged on some of my drives. I do like to take fast runs around somecloverleafs and really work the engine, but it's not always possible everyday. What do otherpeople experience when doing a lot of city driving?These experiences worry me a little bit and make me wonder if it's a good idea to even chargemy smartphone and run a radar detector at the same time around town, further killing the
i: battery if the alternator isn't charging it constantly. These electrical experiences are the onlything I don't like about my 911... not fun to get stranded and have to call for a boost. Twice.
Kelly
1:1 POST REPLY
:Page l of 2 1. 2
httpwruwww.6speedonlhe.corryfoms/997/31Page5-2584-o5-06-aiternator-battely-cabie-issue.htmi 5/6
HYDESION
1i
:3II
IM QUOTE
Like Share 1 0 1 1.±115.3.1 Tweet 6
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 7 of 13
4/15/2016 05-06 Altemator/Battenj Cable Issue 6SpeedOnhne Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource'Amitar s NerJL IPPATIME
.1 Thread Starter Forum. Page6-Thread Replies Last Post i
ii Panamera breaks in 02-17-two! Frame welds, PV=nRT. Panamera 1: 30 2016:defectiJP,,
i5 11:39 PM i.
ii 2009 GTR-FBO-E85-,: i, 11-06-:ii 70k Miles-NI-Cheap Rguy II Automobiles For Sale 12 f 2015 i,
ii 01:36 PM:
997.1 ThrboEliminating Wheelhoo f 09-15-
proTUNING Freaks 997 Turbo 0T2 20 2015is...EASYl TPC DSC:11 07:28 AM:module:
il Porsche Durametric 09-07- 1,I: Diaonostic tool arhim22 Automotive Parts & AcceSsories For Sale/Wanted: 2: 2015(Enthusiast) 0809 PM
Vantage V8 fuelpump issue. Fuse vs. adnanm3 I ston Martin: 6 2015Fuel pump driver
11 12:0S PM
I:fags
02, 2006, Z. 997s, alternator, battery, boxster, cable, carrera, porsche, slow, start, symptoms, tsb, warm
Posting Rules
:1 You may not post new threads1 You may not post replies
You may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your posts
Previous Thread I Next Thread
ii BB code is On I:Smilies areOn,LIBM code is OnHTML code is Off 1
i Trackbacks areOff,Pinobacks areOn:Refbacks are Off li
Forum Rules
Fire
All times are GNIT -6. The bme now is 11:34 AM.
6Speed One Contact Us Sspeedoniine.com Archive Advertising Cookie Poilcy Privacy Statement Terms of service Top
Internet Brands, Automotive
Page6- 616http://www.6speedonline.00m/forunI997/312584-05-06-altemator-battery-cable-ime.html
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 8 of 13
4/15/2016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue Page 2 6SpeedOnline -Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource
Page7-
Forums I Ganew Members I Tools I Marketplace I New Posts: Register Log In
6SpeedOnline Site Search... SearchNavigation
Porsche (Present)The FinerIs. i
Porsche (Past) t. Anywhere.1 Whec,
Italian 124.111.0Y00/15., a.0,47... .k
German
65American 0,
eurv Car Resource 'i TRER,019,,ck 1 User Na me [User Name i il. I Remember Me?
r 1
17A, i ks, li.tt• Log In Log inPassword I I Log In:ableIssue:Japanese
4.0, 4p4;14... 4 ii IF.gl.. Forgot Password?
French 1,,ilos lily, Calendar Today's Posts Search, [teed CarsTech Stuff
Notices The Marketplace i
The 6Speecl Lifestyle The New Garage Talk Atop is Live for both Android & iCoS!
General l'. Win a Trip To A Race Weekend at Laguna Seca Raceway! i
6speedonline RegionalChapters
997 Currene-rrrooL-ren-rne-rrrwcz-47-L-4, C4S, GTS, Targa and CabrioletDiscussion.,Sponsored By HREWheels:
05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue
11 il I iam
-110 POSTREPLY 1 Page 2 o21f 2: g 1 ii 1
1..i:to f:hare •1 oil,, 0j Tweet
1 iI Thread Tools, Search this Thre I ate Thread, I
I
107-19-2013, 0941 AM #16,1
Join Date: Apr 2007 I:- 4,Gpjli Location: long island4 Posts: 1,303
iRegistered User Wilirer: 74;i.
5
jair,110Quote:;
Originally Posted by kellymI've had slow crank issues as well, to the point of getting a dead battery and I've been
V., /et..S°stranded several times while parked away from home. The battery was less than a year Wold at the time, although it was some OEM brand the previous owner put in. I took my i, ir, s. zi, I 1911 into my dealer under CPO warranty and they replaced the alternator cable at nocharge, thinking they solved the problem My car is a 2005 C2S.
sspeeopfltineSomething the dealer service rep told me was very interesting: the alternator does not CTIMalways charge the battery while driving. I was told this is for performance reasons. So,
.4.......,my Porsche 997 seems to be really hard on batteries, especially with stop-park-startagain type driving around town, and the battery really wears down.
Now with a new alternator cable and also a new Interstate battery I still sense some REGISTER NOW >>>>>5>>>slower cranking after a bunch of driving-parking-driving again around town. I don't noticethe slower crank speeds at all if I've had the trickle charger on the night before, whichtells me the battery isn't getting fully charged on some of my ddves. I do like to takefast runs around some cloverleafs and really work the engine, but it's not always possible Visit our Sponsorseveryday. What do other people experience when doing a lot of city driving?
Vendor DiteCtOtVThese experiences worry me a little bit and make me wonder if it's a good idea to even
charge my smartphone and run a radar detector at the same time around town, furthert.• killing the battery if the alternator isn't charging it constantly. These electrical Inlet este=i =n AdvertErr=r2,,
i I. here.experiences are the only thing I don't like about my 911... not fun to get stranded and
http://www.6speedonlne.corn/fonims1997/312584-05-06-akernator-battety-cable-issue-2.htmPage7-l 1/6
.1111=111"11111111.1
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 9 of 13
4/15/2016, 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue Page 2 6SpeedOnine Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource
II have to call for a boost.Twice.,P:,
e8-.Kelly
This is why to me a trickle charger is a no brainer. Even when off and locked the drain on the mg/rimingbattery is constant (btw locking the car cuts down somewhat on battery drain). The generic of thePorsche charger can be had for under $100. Plugs into cigarette lighter. No guarantee it will stopthe cable related hot sthrt problem but it will keep you charged and batteries last longer. CTEKmakes the best one. Porsche puts their name on it and doubles the price. Got mine from Amazon6 years ago. Great stuff for modern cars es. those that are not used daily. Good luck:
Lt„. 1-866-51 -WHEEL
MNIF:.Water-Saving,Lands( -ars Pt' RFORMANCF
[1,•11v
BookNow: GAON
I:g.
-CI QUOTE i
0,Ircii.,,. i:..
5, 'Alp .77,If 1,708-09-2013, 03:59 PM "17, l
Join Date: Nov 2004 "PC5schicago, Location: chicago, iPosts: 385Rep Power:0.Registered User
11
AlternatorCable.
lisillfrafiTs.Porshe should cover the cable and replacement. It is a widespread problem, and it proves that i Iir
the design and location of the "V" cable is faulty. IIt shoud not take 6+ hours to replace a Y cable.
06 997S Cab midnight blue /beige interior, blue top 1 ADAPIEC05 997 Cab atlas grey, sea blue/with stone grey (traded).:daily drivers/ park where u can
I2002 Chrysler 300M,i:fI
1:2000 Chrysler Concorde
:CI QUOTE.
D08-10-2013, 05:33 AM #16 1 Assr.-...4,
arSSII, Join Date: Jul 2011.Location: Atlanta.Age: 44
P.SSTARMACSIRV:—iv, 1 SlateC2S Posts: 162
411111, SUSPENSION4 irer: 15(LEPHANTIr Registered User '41i/Pr- E.,SY.
woriv-EkipbeafRalung.corn
".ir';"*.411.4*,Dyii:
Has anyone seen a decent DYI post anywhere? Anyone attempted it?
iiillitaillirsovare"P-Nuts" -Carrera 911S Slate GrayPorsche 1St (Suncoast), Elk 19in HRE P40 Offset 51/49 (rear-56 w/ 7mm h&r), &Hsieh POS11) Coilovers, Gundo (2" stainless), Drilled PedalSet (Rennline), 9115 badge (Oumperplugs), tell coverage bra (Xpel Ultimate), tints, OEM sport seats, Depo/Dectane LED rears(Soeedstersource.com), silver & black wheel caps (maksoeed.com), clear side-markers
0 Qum,
67faoffitif208-10-2013, 08:59 AM #12 PliOTORSPQRT.
.1"
Join Date: Jun 2008,1, Locatbn: USA 0 :carhonPosts: 1,344.Dadio Rep Power: 94: ri..111 i, H
s.....r•'N. N.rev. '11- .1,41114 I 1.1, ..t^ flru
4, 1Registered User
1
14 Autosuossiostu.-.111111 db44010111ft, i
‘-r• S iPAINT PROIECIMPI MAIQuote:.
iOriginally Posted by SlateC2S ZiHas anyone seen a decent DYI post anywhere? Anyone attemptedit?. I
Page8-http://www.6speedonlne.com/fonwns1997/312584-05-06-alternator-battery-cable-2/6issue-2.html
Quote:
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 10 of 13
4/15/2016 05-06 Alternalor/Batteiy Cable Issue Page 2 -6SpeedOnline -Porsche Forum and Luxury Car ResourceLink below to one DIY for the cable. Did the cable replacement using a post by Equinox but thelink below uses his info anyway so its almost identical. I did it on '07 C4S and if you have the;tools it's probably a 5 out of ten. Bulk of the procedure centers around getting stuff out of the I e9-way. The cable replacement part is the easiest part of the whole procedure. Difference is nothing ctiok To Savo OnleSS than remarkable. Car actually starts up like even the cheapest car on the planet now. Just,unbelievable that I had to replaCe a battery cable in my 100 K + Porsche to get it to start like a AR STRIIITS'20 year old FordTaurus., STRUTSAs for for a trickle charger being the work around, since I changed the cable I do not have to use.the trickle charger anymore which was a PIA. Trickle charger is great for storing your car for; I 1`long periods or over the winter but shouldn't be needed for short periods and definitely not a car.being used everyday.As to the question of wether or not you have the cable You have it unless you changed it out. IPorsche didn't change the cable on the 997.1 cars. Jor fie Distributing
1..1,3. Atlanct,.e
4cceo5.es
3.85 How to replace the alternatorcable.(702)43o-6622I,:
el QUOTE: i,i
i 1 08-10-2013, 09:11 AM #24 1.t PDF I 1A:
Join Date: Jun 2008
lifialLmtiliU1S4,1,Aadio,11.1 LOIVIAD„:
A 4:, 4, m,, Aciiii‘ li^ 0 EXCLUSIVEPrERIWi) WI-IFFILA
i^egistered Useri
--.4111111
Quote:681-846-78138
Originally Posted by GpjliE,This is why to me a trickle charger is a no brainer. Even when off and locked the drain onthe battery is constant (btw locking the car cuts down somewhat on battery drain). The,generic of the Porsche charger can be had for under $100. Plugs into cigarette lighter. No
or,guarantee it will stop the cable related hot start problem but it will keep you charged andbatteries last longer. CTEK makes the best one. Porsche puts their name on it and
tdoubles the price. Got mine from Amazon 6 years ago. Great stuff for modern cars,esp,those that are not used daily. Goodluck,,,f. ErViahneceelimi;MIMMINIMMEMIIMMIIIIMININE My '12 Jag XF sits for weeks at a time and starts immediately without the need of a trickle.
charger. A constant battery drain significant enough to render a batten/ the size of the one used i I ELAMICSIPIIIIAMin the 997 unable to start the car would not be normal IMO and should be sorted out.
10 QUOTE i; i:n.::.5 V,
D08-11-2013, 10:53 AMi
Join Date: Apr 2007 arailizAtati Gpjli Location: long islandPosts: 1, 303
liriaigicid,,i RegisteredUser.
Originally Posted by Dadio0.
iloo 7My '12 Jag XF sits for weeks at a time and starts immediately without the need of atrickle charger. A constant battery drain significant enough to render a battery the size ofthe one used in the 997 unable to start the car would not be normal IMO and should besorted out.
f •1111f ill..
1
Whatever you do, do NOT use a trickle charger(41,PraillAINEMy car starts cold after 4 or more weeks w/o charger also. What it does not do with charger is Il fruaricsexhibit slow hot restart issue which was original topic.
Would make sense to me that given a voltage drop of X (put in a number) due to increasedresistance of cable with engine hot, a battery that is fully charged will perform better than onethat is at say 75% or less due to parasitic drain or short trips.
I get that this is not the solution others want. It works for me though.84X/IflierPhIVTo my knowledge Jaguar does not have the issue that started this post in the first place.
I Glad you like your car though.
44vsoeijI
-Ul. CRIMEAROMBACHER"
08-11-2013, 07:36 PM
i Join Date: Jun 2008 El .1... A 0i Location: USA
1 Posts: 1,344ii.
Page9-http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/312584-05-06-altemator-battery-cable-ISSue-2.html 3/6
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 11 of 13
411512016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue- Page 2 -6SpeedOnline -Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource
Rep Power' C'
Dadio mid% t, 1
IIIII.:::,, )a Q010-Reg istered UserIiii
acgttonionircL., nnOisseur GroupPericcrismeilfilasistExte'rretreisg[QUOTE=Gpjli;3914240]Whatever you do, do NOT use a trickle charger .4,4
87/422-4736"My car starts cold after 4 or more weeks w/o charger also. What it does not do with charger is:
i exhibit slow hot restart issue which was original topic." CgiggiTT0Nt
1 Since replacing the original Alternator to starter cable in my C4S with the improved cable my.i Porsche exhibits no slow restart issues, hot or cold, at all and it no longer needs to be on atrickle charger, battery booster, battery maintainer, Ctek, etc....period.
My Jag never suffered from a slow hot starting issue because it wasn't delivered with a poorly:4.
engineered alternator to battery cable. STUDIO RSRIf your car will not turn over when hot with the same enthusiasum as it does when cold I suggestyou have it tested for a deffective alternator to starter wiring harness. Slow starting shouldn't beexplained away as a unique Porsche design characteristic requiring constant battery charging4 intervention to overcome.
4,a CORE THE, -1 COils
08-12-2013, 0953 AM #22
Join Date: Apr 2007alai. Location: long island,it Posts: 1, 303 PORSCHERegistered User 7. 74PARTS 'I
A
1 [QUOTE=Dadio;3914443]Quote:
1I Originally Posted by Gpjli 1E
Whatever you do, do NOT use a trickle charger 'Q'l"My car starts cold after 4 or more weeks w/o charger also. What it does not do withcharger is exhibit slow hot restart issue which was original topic."
Since replacing the original Alternator to starter cable in my C4S with the improved cable:i; my Porsche exhibits no slow restart issues, hot or cold, at all and it no longer needs to;
11 be on a trickle charger, battery booster, battery maintainer, Ctek, etc....period.
My Jag never suffered from a slow hot starting issue because it wasn't delivered with apoorly engineered alternator to battery cable.
If your car will not turn over when hot with the same enthusiasum as it does when cold Isuggest you have it tested for a deffective alternator to starter wiring harness. Slowstarting shouldn't be explained away as a unique Porsche design characteristic requiringconstant battery charging intervention to overcome.
Oh here we are again. I see now. Here's my advice to you: Read my posts. If you still would liketo pursue what you think I should do and why I should do it PM me. Until then I will continue to;
1: enjoy my Porsche as I have for the past 7.5 years and 36K miles and trickle charge the batterywhen I am not driving it. By now neone still wasting their time on this thread knows what theproblem is and what the choices are. And use spellcheck. I'm outta here.
Last edited by Gpjli; 08-12-2013 at 09:57 AM.
cpOTE
103-20-2014, 02:37 PM
Join Date: Jun 2005Location: Daly City, CAPosts: 472
itgleirer: 32
http://www.6speedonline.corri/forums/997/312584-05-06-attemator-battery-cable-issue-2.html Page10- 4/6
pvanosta
kegistered User
subscribing
--spePoo
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 12 of 13
4/15/2016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue :Page 2 -6SpeedOnline Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource
Pagel 1-
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Rep His Last Post
ilPanamera breaks in:.i 02-17-.
twol Frame welds i PV=nRT. Panamera I: 30 2015 kildefective.. 11:39 PM
li 2009 GTR-F60-685- ll'l 70k Miles-N3-Cheap Rguy Automobiles For Sale 12, 2015
:1 0136 PM:
II 997.1 Turbo09-15- iEliminating wheelhou proTUNING Freaks 997 Turbo GT2 i 20:f. is...EASY! TPC DSC 2015
ii- module
:1 Porsche Durametric il OS-07-:Diaonostic tool arhim22 il Automotive Parts & Accessories For Sale/Wanted 2 i 2013:(Enthusiast) li:01:49 PI:
Vantage VS fuel li! 09-06- i1 pump issue. Fuse vs i': adnanm3 1: Aston Martin E: 6 2015 I'Fuel DUMO driver12;03 PI iI module
Ilags:
02, 2006, 997, 997s, alternator, battery, boxster, cable, Carrera, porsChe, slow, start, symptoms, -kil, warm
Posting Rules
li You may not post new threadsII You may not post replies 11il You may not post attachments llll You may not edit your posts
E3B code is On 11ll Smilies are Onil TIMG1 code isOn:
liq HTML code is OffTrackbacks are OffPinobacks are On [i
ll Refbacks are Off
1; Forum Rules
o Previous Thread I Next Thread a
11111rNs„.gEpt
Page 1 1http://www.6speedonline.corn/forums/997/312584-05-06-altemator-battery-cabb-issue-2.html 5/6
07 997 TT Cpe Atlas Grey (Gone)II 06 997 C2S Cab Linen/Cocoa (Gone)
02 996 TT 1(50 Seal Grey/Black (Gone)01 996 TT Black Tan(Gone)
II 01 996 C4 Cpe Tip silyer/Metropole Blue (Gone)II SF Bay Area
CI QUOTE
Like Shore 0 I G4114 0 Tweet
POSTREPLY:Page 2 of 2 r 1:: 2
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-2 Filed 04/19/16 Page 13 of 13
4/15/2016 05-06 AlternatorlBattery Cable Issue Page 2 -6SpeedOnline Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:37 AM. Page12-6Speed One Contact Us Gspeedonlipe.com Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service Top
113 Internet Brands' I.kotornothip
Page12- 6/6http:fiwww.6speedonline.com/forums/997/312584-05-06-altemator-battety-cable-sue-2.html