‘Mr and Mrs Dursley of Number 4 Privet Drive were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much. They were the last people you’d ever expect to be involved in anything strange or mysterious, because they just didn’t hold with such nonsense.’

(Quote continues, fades into intro music)

Casper- I’m Casper ter Kuile

Vanessa- And I’m Vanessa Zoltan

Casper- And this is Harry Potter and the Sacred Text.

Vanessa- Casper, one of the first conversations that we had about Harry Potter, I was complaining about the inconsistencies in the novel that always annoy me- That when wizards wear muggle clothes and they don’t – And you said to me, ‘Well what if we treated that as if it wasn’t an inconsistency, but it was there on purpose?’ That conversation was so exciting to me because it took something shallow, like this shallow cynical thing that I’m really good at – I’m really good at being cynical and critical and ironic – and you were asking me to be sincere and optimistic about the material again. And I think that is what we’re going to do in this podcast. We are going to ask ourselves ‘what if we take this seriously? What gifts is it going to give us if we love something and we love it with rigor, and we love it with commitment?’

Casper- hmmm…

Vanessa- So, why are you excited to do a Harry Potter and the Sacred Text podcast?

Casper- Treating Harry Potter as a sacred text was not something I was planning on doing. I was in divinity school against all expectations; I was growing up in a non-religious household and never thought I would be sitting in a Bible study class learning how to understand this ancient text. And it was interesting, but it never felt like it was mine. I didn’t love it.

And I happened to go on vacation with my family and you know, after about just two or three weeks with my family, I wanted to escape, and so looked for something to read, something that would be comforting, something that would remind me of a place where I felt safe. So I downloaded Harry Potter! And I started reading it, and not only did it make me feel comfortable and safe, and took me out of the situation I was in and into an imaginary world which I loved already, but the themes and the questions that were in these books were so. Big! They were just as big as the Bible questions I’d just been reading, you know.

The same questions of love and fear and death and even resurrection that were showing up in the Bible class were showing up in the Harry Potter text. And the difference was that the Harry Potter books felt like they were mine. I could claim them in a way that I never feel like I could claim the Bible. ‘Cuz this was a text I had grown up with; it’s a text I’d grown to love as a child. So for me, treating Harry Potter as a sacred text isn’t that strange, it’s something I think I had already done in a small way, but now we’re going to do it for real.

Vanessa- Totally! Since we’ve been talking to people about this, so many people have told us stories of ‘every time I go through a break-up I wanna reread the Harry Potter books,’ ‘My mom died, I read the Harry Potter books’, right? People are already doing this!

Casper- And they’ve got specific passages or they’ve got specific books that they’ll read, you know, Hogwarts will always be there as a place to return to, as a safe place.

Vanessa- Yes. The thing that I love about treating a text as sacred, is that we’re giving ourselves permission through rigorous practice to really see ourselves through the text, which is a really exciting thing, right? You can use it as instructive.

Casper- Right. It’s easy to say that, but the practice of doing it takes work, and it takes concentration and discipline.

Vanessa- Oh, absolutely. So there’s this story that has become really meaningful to me and it’s about this town in France right before World War Two. This was a Huguenot town in a Catholic country- A Protestant town in a Catholic country. And so they, for hundreds of years, had been oppressed as a Protestant community and because of this oppression, they had turned that into a real strong commitment to this idea that roughly translates into ‘radical hospitality’.

And so, what’s really great about this is that World War Two comes along and French Jews, you know, in Vichy France, are like ‘Oh, there’s this town that’s used to being oppressed for their religion. That sounds like what I’m going through.’ So French Jews start like, knocking on these doors. And this town, just because it was practiced in the commitment to radical hospitality, they had something that they always did, right? They opened their doors to refugees. And they did it with compassion and generosity, and they ended up saving hundreds of Jews.

And opening doors to refugees! I’m not trying to get political with our current circumstance, but I just think that by taking something that you love seriously, and they took their idea of radical hospitality, an idea that they loved, seriously, and were committed to it, you have no idea what gifts it’s going to give you.

And we usually talk about this in terms of skillsets that you can then apply in the job market. And there are great stories about Wayne Gretzsky and Mike Gaza and you know, athletes, who were so committed to their sport as kids, and then became amazing athletes. But we don’t talk about this a lot in terms of practicing just values that matter a lot to us. It’s like ‘oh, that person is loving!’ as if it’s some kind of natural state to be loving?

I think that if you want to be a loving person, you have to think about ‘What does being loving look like? How do I do that?’ and you have to practice it. You’re sharpening a tool in your toolbox, and you have no idea how you’re going to wield it. But I think that Harry Potter is sort of a blunt tool in a lot of people’s toolbox, and we’re gonna show people that if you love something and treat it with rigor, you can be sharpening that tool, and it doesn’t have to be just Harry Potter, right? If you love baseball, love it!

Casper- Hmm.

Vanessa- So Casper, every week, we are going to read through a theme. We’re going to be looking for a certain theme. Why are we going to do that?

Casper- There’s so many different ways you can look at a text, and I think it’s helpful to kind of, put on some glasses and think, ‘okay, let’s read this chapter through the theme of loss, or through the theme of attachment, or selfishness’ you know? It opens up a whole new set of windows on the meaning of the text. And we get to be creative with what those themes are. So I love the story that you told about this town in France and the commitment that they had to hospitality. So I think it’ll be fun to read this chapter, this opening chapter, The Boy Who Lived, through the theme of commitment. What do we learn about the characters, what they’re committed to, so that’s this week’s theme- commitment.

Vanessa- Before we explore that theme, let’s just remind people of what happens in the first chapter.

Casper- Every week we’re just going to do a thirty second recap. We’ll both have a go, and, for anyone who wants to, you get to vote who does a better job. Obviously, I will be winning your vote!

Vanessa- It will definitely be me! That’s cute, that you think it’s going to be you, though.

Casper- Vanessa, why don’t you start? GO!

(tick-tocking sound)

Vanessa- There’s the Dursleys and they’re obsessed with being normal. They have a two-year-old son named Dudley, and Dudley acts like a two-year-old. Mr. Dursley goes to work, he works in drills, he hears all these weird things going on, but he just wants to ignore it all day. One of the things that he hears that perks his ears is the name Harry Potter. He comes home and there’s this weird cat, and the cat’s behaving strangely, and then the cat turns into a woman, and this man shows up, and this other man shows up with, on a flying motorcycle, and he has a baby, and so the first man that I talked about drops off the baby in a bassinet on the doorstep of the Dursleys with a note and then VOLDEMORT!

(angry buzzing sound- 134 words in 30 seconds!)

Casper (laughing)- Oh! So close! I love that you said ‘He works in drills!’ (Vanessa laughing) Like that’s a thing! ‘Oh, I work in drills.’ All right, count me in.

Vanessa- On your mark, get set, go.

(ticking sound resumes)

Casper- There’s a family called the Dursleys, young couple, small baby, and, um, weird things are happening, but they’re obsessed with being normal, so they don’t like when weird things

happening. Um, Vernon, who’s the dad, works in the drilling business, and sees all sorts of strange things happening. (laughing) He likes DRILLING! Okay, um, uh, cat on the wall, man delivering baby, uh, baby magical, bad magical person died, so everyone happy, um, uh, OWLS, there’s owls and shooting stars and the baby-has-a-scar.

(angry buzzing sound- 87 words in 30 seconds!)

Casper (continued)- and he’s called Harry Potter.

(Casper and Vanessa laughing)

Vanessa- That was like thirty-two seconds! That was pretty good though.

Casper- Beginner’s effort.

Vanessa- Yeah. So Casper, as we discussed, we’re going to talk about a different theme every week, and this week we’re going to talk about commitment. And I don’t know about you, but in reading this chapter and rereading this chapter I found commitment all over the place.

Casper- Yeah, I think it’s really interesting, because we already learned so much about some of the key characters and what’s important to them. So it does show up in unexpected ways.

Vanessa- So this is my third time reading the book, and I’m reading it with this lens towards commitment, and this was the first time I read it that I had a really hard time hating the Dursleys.

Casper- Hah!

Vanessa- Yeah, I just see them as very committed to a lot of things. So, we’re told that they’re committed to normalcy, and we’re all predisposed, especially if you’re reading this as a kid for the first time to think that this is a bad thing, but why is that so terrible? Theoretically, you’re saying that civilization has been discerned over thousands of years and this is the mold to which society has decided is best and I’m going to try and fit in with that.

Casper- I guess normal is better than being a Death Eater.

Vanessa- I would like to think that I’m committed to a higher ideal than normalcy, but I don’t think that there’s anything inherently wrong with people who are committed to that ideal.

Casper- But in some ways they are. I mean, later in the chapter when Vernon, you know, he’s been hearing about all these strange things which remind him of the sister of his wife, he’s very careful about how he broaches the subject with Petunia, right? I think he’s really committed to loving her, actually, because he asks ‘er, Petunia dear, you haven’t heard from your sister lately, have you?’ He doesn’t mention the name Harry Potter. He’s very careful, he’s very- he doesn’t want to bring up something painful for her. He’s committed to protecting her from things that are painful.

Vanessa- He seems to be very committed to her, and to their family. I just…!

Casper- And a normal life together!-

Vanessa- Working hard, and he’s so committed to working hard! In the book it says, very specifically, that his back was towards the window in his office.

Casper- So he doesn’t get distracted.

Vanessa- So he doesn’t get distracted! I would very intentionally. I always face the window when I work so that I get distracted. I think that that shows a commitment to working hard, and sure he like, yells at people, and that’s a bad thing, and whatever, but I don’t know, I think that he cares a lot about his work. And what? They like gossip. We all watch reality TV. I found myself relating to them. I will say though, there’s, on like page eight or nine, there’s that line about imagination and being too old for such nonsense, and I’m like ‘okay, they’re committed a little bit too much to this normal thing.’

What I think is so interesting now that we’re reading from commitment I see it everywhere. It’s like Rowling is introducing us to these people through commitment, which I never thought of before. But from the very beginning, we see Hagrid as committed to caring for small creatures. Hagrid has just, I think, theoretically, met this baby and that he’s weeping over Harry, and the fact that he’s dropping him off on this Muggle doorstep, I mean like weeping, not dropping Harry off to the slaughter. And he’s so moved by caring for this tiny creature, and we see it over and over again with him.

Casper- Well he’s always looking out for the outsider, which of course makes sense because he was an outsider, and remains throughout the entire books. And there’s something that’s, ironically for such a big man, there’s something very maternal about Hagrid, always. He’s always looking after creatures, or living things, really, that are rejected or on the margins in a way that Harry is going to the margins, and he’s already committed to looking after Harry, and then, of course, later in this book we’ll see Hagrid re-welcome Harry into his world, so there’s this lovely protective element that he offers.

Vanessa- And I think that over the course of the seven books we contract Hagrid’s commitment because we see that motivates some really bad decisions too.

Casper- Absolutely. Like, these really big mistakes.

Vanessa- He loses sight of all other priorities. He wants to take care of these baby dragons, but he reveals a big secret that could have catastrophic impact. Or he starts asking Harry, Hermione, and Ron to make really bad decisions, like warn a spider. So Hagrid seems to be an argument of being over-committed to something and that resonates with me. I want to be committed to something, but not so much that I’m not reading the room. I feel like there’s a warning in Hagrid.

Casper- I think we also really see Dumbledore’s commitment. McGonagall grows suspicious of Hagrid, throughout the novels, of his trustworthiness, and you see it’s explained why. Dumbledore is always so clear on who to trust, with Snape as well, and I think Dumbledore is offering us the idea of being committed to the best in people. And that’s something we see him exhibit all across the novels. And that’s already at play here in being so trustworthy of Hagrid.

Vanessa- I’m going to be interested to see if like Hagrid, that also leads him to make some bad decisions. I can’t quite work it out but is Dumbledore’s commitment to always seeing the best in people something that risks people’s lives at certain points, and I think maybe it is, but it will be interesting to pay attention to.

Casper- Questions to which the answer is yes. This is the fun thing when you read it through a theme like you really do see it everywhere.

Vanessa- It’s everywhere! Wow, someone should do a podcast!

Casper- Someone should do a podcast!

(laughing)

Casper- Each week we’re going to use a different traditional sacred practice to engage with Harry Potter, and this week we’re going to do Lectio Divina, a traditional Christian practice that literally means ‘sacred reading’ in Latin.

Vanessa- So, we have sort of put our own tweak on Lectio Divina in order to use it for our own devices. This is a traditional Christian practice- this might not be exactly the way that people do it in your local Bible study, but this is how we’re going to do it.

Casper- Now the idea is that you flip through the sacred text, and wherever your finger lands on the page, you engage that word or phrase at four different levels of reading. The quote we found this week is right in the middle of Chapter One:

‘”You flatter me,” said Dumbledore calmly, “Voldemort had powers I will never have.”’

So, what’s the first level at which we’re going to engage this phrase?

Vanessa- The first step is just narrative. So we just look at the quote and think through all the things that are happening on a literal narrative level. So, Casper, [repeats quote] he’s talking to McGonagall.

Casper- That’s right, so McGonagall tells Dumbledore that he’s different, that he’s, you know, that he’s the only one Voldemort’s ever been afraid of, and Dumbledore really pushes back and says first of all, ‘You flatter me,’ which is interesting, we can think about what he means there, you know, is he genuinely flattered by her thinking that he’s the most powerful wizard? Or is he kind of using that to hold her off and say no?

Vanessa- I can’t think of a time where the word ‘flatter’ isn’t loaded. A compliment can be literal, right? ‘Oh, that’s such a nice compliment.’ But when do you hear the word ‘flatter’ not a little ironically? Like (with flourish) ‘flatterer,’ or ‘you flatter me.’

Casper- Right, it’s negative, right? And it’s coming closer to some of the deadly sins or something, of pride. It’s not a nice thing. Because it means it’s not true. I think that’s important actually. He’s saying ‘you flatter me’ because he’s saying ‘actually, it’s not true. Voldemort had powers I will never have.’

Vanessa- Okay, so we’re finishing up with Step One, which is just the literal what-happened in the text. The second step of Lectio Divina is looking at allegory.

Casper- What metaphors are hidden in the text? What symbols can we find in the words that are used? What strikes you, Vanessa? Any symbols or allegorical ideas that strike you?

Vanessa- What I love about Dumbledore saying ‘Voldemort has powers that I will never have,’ because I think literally, what he could mean is that Voldemort is a more talented wizard than I am, right? But I think metaphorically, allegorically what he’s saying is that ‘Voldemort has harnessed powers that I will never choose to have. Voldemort went down a road that I will never go down.’ Actually, I also really love the word ‘will.’ He’s willing himself in this future tense way, and also he’s fating himself through this decision. ‘I will never go down that path.’ And I think that is also true in our lives as well. I could will myself to be a lot of different things. I could will myself to be a marathon runner. And I want to be a version of that: I want to be a runner and I want to be a healthy person. But I’m not willing to put in the energy to be a marathon runner. That sounds painful and like a huge time commitment. So that’s a power that I will never have. And there’s no judgement in that, there’s no saying that that is a good power to have or a bad power to have. And I think there’s something beautiful in saying that, in saying ‘These are the powers I’m going after. I’m going after being healthy and I’m going after spending time reading and spending time with friends. I’m not going after marathon running.’

Casper- Yeah, Dumbledore’s core struggle is with power. The fact that he chooses not to become Minister of Magic is so much to do with his fear of how he would use his own power. I’m always thinking about names in the Harry Potter series, because there’s so much interesting stuff that’s hidden within the names. And Voldemort is a really important title, right that Tom Riddle chooses for himself, and mort in French is death, And the idea of vol-de-mort –vol is, I can never quite remember the French word, forgive me folks [note- it means flight! Vol-de-mort= flight from death], there’s something about moving or running away from – So we know that he’s terrified of death. That is Riddle’s biggest fear. And so even in the name that he chooses of this dark wizarding name, there’s this kind of running away from death symbolically there. So that strikes me in this phrase.

The third step of Lectio Divina is the idea of reflection. How does this text speak to you, in your life, today? And how can we read it towards our theme of commitment?

The word ‘flatter’ really jumps out at me because I think I’m quite good at flattering people. And I realize now that when I think I’m being nice and I think I’m complementing someone, it’s actually an empty compliment when it’s flattery because it’s not true. And people know it’s not true when they hear it, so it might be a nice kind of sugar coating but the thing I’m giving them inside that sugar coating is a kind of an empty, or even bitter thing. So it’s really making me think of the line between giving someone a compliment and really appreciating someone or flattering them to make them feel good, which actually might make them feel worse.

Vanessa- And maybe it even breaks trust. Like I can’t trust you to really tell me what’s happening.

Casper- ‘That’s a really great point Vanessa, you’re so good at making points,’ for example.

(laughing)

Vanessa- Wow, that was really rude. My turn.

What is interesting to me along the power conversation, there are obviously a lot of powers I theoretically could have that I’ll never have. And there’s a lot of sadness in that, right? In order to be really good at anything, you have to commit yourself to it, and there’s that sort of Gladwellian idea of ten thousand hours, and whenever you pick that one thing, you’re saying no to all these other things. So I’m wondering if I’m committed to the right powers. I’m committed to writing, and I’m committed to reading well, but should I be committed to social justice more? And without being too dramatic about it, but that’s really a contemplation about mortality, it’s the fact that we have a finite amount of time in this world, and so there are only certain powers that I can really call. So that’s what these themes and the idea of commitment has really brought out for me.

Casper- Unless you get a Philosopher’s Stone.

Vanessa- Which I’m in the market for.

Casper- What’s the fourth theme?

Vanessa- So the fourth theme is invitation, and that’s where we really try to honour the work that we’ve done so far, and ask ourselves what action are we going to take?

Casper- I think this idea- I’m really stuck on Voldemort’s name and this idea of running from death and the fear of death, which I think relates to ‘we only have so much time, and what are we going to choose to cultivate?’ So I’m going to, well, it’s kind of cheating because I do it already, but every time I’m in the shower I say to myself ‘I might die today.’ Which sounds very intense, but it’s actually a very liberating practice, I find, because it makes me appreciate what I have. Even if it’s just the hot water running over my body.

Vanessa- Well, and I think that recommitting yourself to something- if you do it every day, maybe you just sort of say it ritualistically.

Casper- Now I’m going to say it like I mean it! That’s what I’m going to do. How about you Vanessa?

Vanessa- I think I’m also going to recommit myself to something, and I’m just justifying that that’s not a bad thing. It’s still an action. So the thing I’m going to try to do, I’m going to answer my own reflection. So I said ‘am I making the right choices?’ And I think I’m just going to acknowledge that I’ll never know that I made the best possible choices, but it doesn’t matter because I made them, and I made them rationally, and I give them a lot of thought, and hopefully I went with my gut on them.

So I’m going to commit myself to even getting better at the choices I’ve already made. So I made the choice to be a chaplain, and I’m going to try and get even better at chaplaincy. And I made the choice to be a conscientious reader, and I’m going to do keep doing research on how to be a better and better reader. Rather than constantly spending all this time wondering what other powers I could have cultivated, I’m going to try move towards getting better wards committing myself to the things I’ve already chosen.

Casper- Finally, we’ll end each episode with a blessing for some of the characters we’ve encountered in each chapter.

Vanessa- What I love blessings is, I feel like when you bless something you are tapping into your most vulnerable wish for someone. And I just think that when you bless someone, you are admitting you have no power over something, and yet you are hoping with every fibre of your being.

Casper- Blessing is really a lost art these days. And it’s been something that’s so important in s many people’s lives, and it’s something we want to retrieve a little bit. So we’ll bless the characters and we’ll hope that you will taking the blessing with you also. Vanessa, who is your blessing for this week?

Vanessa- I’ve made a commitment that every week as we do these blessings, I would like to bless a woman from these novels. And so this week I want to make a blessing for Professor McGonagall, who we haven’t discussed, but, throughout this chapter she is sitting in her cat form on this wall watching this family. I just imagine the rest of the wizarding world is out there celebrating. But McGonagall still feels as though she has a duty, and talk about commitment!

She is always committed first and foremost to protecting her students. Protecting the vulnerable in her care. I’m grateful for everyone in the world who does that, and I feel that gesture is often and invisible gesture. And she is quite invisible in this chapter; she is just sitting on a wall as a cat. But she is sort of laying hands on this house and blessing this house, metaphorically showing us how the wizarding love is going to protect Harry, not just the family bonds. Casper, who do you want to offer a blessing to this week?

Casper- I want to bless Dumbledore. He’s made this really big decision to leave this totally vulnerable baby on the doorstep of people he knows are not perfect, and he is embarking on

something really risky. But he’s made a choice and he’s going to see it through. And I think we’re starting on this adventure of a new podcast, a new project. A blessing for beginnings I think is really embodied in Dumbledore. So for anyone who is starting a new project that blessing is for you also.

(outro music)

Vanessa- So that was our first episode of Harry Potter and the Sacred Text.

Casper- Produced by me, Casper ter Kuile, Vanessa Zoltan and Arianna Nedelman. Next week we’ll be back reading the second chapter of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone: The Vanishing Glass, reading it through the theme of loneliness.

Vanessa- We’d like to thank the following people from the bottom of our hearts for making this possible.

Casper- So a big thanks to Rosie Hosking, for the name. Robert Majovski for the fabulous photographs.

Vanessa- Lauren Taylor, Shane Bannon and Rufus for their support. Nick Bohl and Ivan Pyzow for their amazing music.

Casper- For all their hard work, Tesily Beale, Kate Sullivan and Hannah O’Neill.

Vanessa- Bryce Gillfillian, our first donor Stephanie Paulsell, Matt Potts and Amy Hollywood, some of our mentors.

Casper- Greg Epstein and the Humanist Hub for supporting this idea from the beginning.

Vanessa- Charlie and Rebecca Ledley, for being some of the first people who believed in this work.

Casper- Wonderful Graham from the Communications Office, and our fabulous, hundred-plus Kickstarter supporters who have made all of this possible.

Vanessa- And last and certainly not least, our Harry Potter and the Sacred Text reading group.

Casper- Thank you all so, so much.

(outro ends)

Casper- I’m just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her.

Vanessa- why are we quoting that?

Casper- OH GOD!

Vanessa- why?