BIOGRAPHICAL SUMMARY:

1

GLORIA AINSWORTH, 33, substitute teacher andtaro farmer

Gloria Jean (Fujioka) Ainsworth, Japanese-Hawaiian-Chinese, was born onMay 9, 1945, in Honolulu. As her parents were from Kukuihaele, shemoved back there soon after birth. She has two half-brothers.

After graduation from Honokaa High School in 1963, Gloria went toSouthern Oregon College, receiving her education degree in 1967. Afterteaching in Alaska for two years, she went back to Southern Oregon forher Master's degree. There, she met Sydney. They were married in 1971.

Gloria has held jobs as a teacher, maid and bookstore worker. In 1976the Ainsworths moved from Oregon to Laupahoehoe. Gloria does substituteteaching at Honokaa and Laupahoehoe High Schools. She and Sydney alsofarm a small patch of taro in Waipio Valley on land that Sydney's motherbought.

Gloria's hobbies include sewing and cooking.

BIOGRAPHICAL SUMMARY:

2

SYDNEY AINSWORTH, 30, high· school teacher andtaro farmer

Sydney Bruce Ainsworth, Caucasian, was born on February 20, 1948, inGrants Pass, Oregon, son of an artist and an attorney. During highschool in Oregon, Sydney worked as a field laborer and a logger. Afterhigh school he held odd jobs for several years until 1968 when he formeda rock-and-roll band. He met Gloria; they visited the Big Island,returned to Oregon and were married.

Syndey then attended Southern Oregon College for four years, graduatingin 1976 with a Bachelor's degree in Music Education. The Ainsworthsmoved back to the Big Island in 1976. Since then, Sydney has beenteaching at Laupahoehoe High School and farming taro part-time in WaipioValley.

When not working, Sydney enjoys music, surfing and fishing.

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Tape No. 4-48A-1-78

ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW

with

Sydney and Gloria Ainsworth

June 26, 1978

Kukuihaele, Big Island

BY: Vivien Lee (VL) and Yukie Yoshinaga (YY)

VL: This is an interview with Sydney and Gloria Ainsworth. Todayis June 24, 1978. We1re at the church in Kukuihaele.

Okay, Gloria, can you tell us, for the record, when and whereyou were born?

Gloria: I was born in Honolulu on May 9, 1945.

VL: And you, Sydney?

Sydney: February 20, 1948. Grants Pass, Oregon.

VL: Can you tell us how you folks met, and where you met?

Gloria: We met in Oregon.

VL: What were you doing in Oregon at that time?

Gloria: Looking for job. Because I had just come back from theEast Coast.

VL: And so you folks met in Oregon. And what made you decide tocome back to Gloria's place of growing up?

Sydney: I just ended another time with the band [he had been playingmusic with a band]. And, when I met Gloria, she said I oughtto come see Hawaii. So we came to Hawaii together.

VL: And what were your impressions?

Sydney: Oh, we liked it. Very beautiful place.

VL: Then you went back to the Mainland?

Sydney: No. Stayed and got married.

4

VL: Wait. You came back to Honokaa in 1970. And then you wentback?

Gloria: As married people.

VL: Yeah. And then you came back again. Right. Okay. How didyou choose Laupahoehoe as your home?

Sydney:

VL:

Sydney:

I didn't choose it. I just graduated from college and I camehere. And the day after I came here, I thought, "Well, I'dbetter see about finding some work." So I went to the Departmentof Education and they gave me a job the day I walked in. AndI felt this is quite fortunate, seeing how the job market isthe way it is. So, of course, I took a job there. And beganimmediately. It was a week after I graduated from school.

So can you describe what your job is right now?

Well, I teach in the high school at Laupahoehoe, and I teachband. But since it's a small school, I have to teach Englishand Social Studies too. They don't have enough students forjust a band program. So to have a band program, the bandteacher has to assume these other teaching roles. it's been areal good experience. I really enjoy it.

Being a beginning teacher, I had a chance to start from scratch.Because they had no program there. I got to build a band, andit worked. And it's been a very good experience there.

VL: How many years have you been married now?

Sydney: Seven.

VL: And Gloria, what do you do now?

Gloria: Substitute teach at Honokaa and Laupahoehoe.

VL: About how often do you get to substitute?

Gloria: Three or four times a week. And fIve been fortunate in thatlive had long terms, lasting a month at time.

VL: So, what made you folks decide to farm taro?

Sydney: When I came here and saw Waipio Valley, I thought it wasprobably the most beautiful place I'd ever seen. And I wantedto be there. And I saw what people did there was taro farming.And I didn't even know what taro was. So it was a thing ofdoing something that lId never heard of. And I always wantedto farm. To farm, you need lots of land and machinery, butthis farming you don't. And it just seemed like a very ideal

5

thing, to be able to spend time in that valley and do somethinglike farming. And especially something like taro, lid nevereven heard of it and I had never read anywhere how to do it.Sort of like a mystery and seemed like a very worthwhile thingto do.

VL: Gloria, did any of your family or relatives farm taro?

Gloria: Yes. And some of the relatives still do.

VL: What was your experience in farming taro, before you andSydney started?

Gloria: I had no experience.

VL: So how did you learn how to do it?

Gloria: By going into it and just starting, and asking questions topeople who had experience.

VL: How did these older farmers, what was their attitude towardsyou, as young farmers?

Gloria: Majority of them were discouraging.

VL: In what way?

Gloria: In that they didn't give much information. That's how it wasdiscouraging.

VL: Do you think they were holding back information on purpose?

Gloria: li m not sure.

Sydney: That was part of---for me it was really moving. We'd searchedand searched, to find the seed to plant taro. You can't go toa co-op or like a grange to get your seed. So you have to goand ask. And thatls a hard thing to start with. Especiallywhen you Ire from somewhere else, you go ask somebody forsomething. Somebody said we could buy it. So we asked andnobody knew where they was any. They said, IINo, therels notenough, not enough. II We looked and looked and we cleared ourpatch and cleaned it so that we would be ready. Not knowinganywhere weld get the seed. And we asked and asked. Andthen, this lady, Mrs. [Fannie] Duldulao, heard that we werelooking. And weld looked everywhere. And people finallytelling us, IIYou're going to have to buy it but we don't knowwhere you 'll have to buy it. II

And this lady came up to us and said, IIEverybody ls telling youstories. I will give you all you need. 1I And, that reallytouched me. A really heavy emotional thing, to look for

VL:

Sydney:

VL:

Sydney:

VL:

Sydney:

6

something so hard~ everbody telling you it was impossible~ andfinally have somebody give it. Just by the truckload. Andhelp me plant it too. Perhaps one of the kindest thingsthat's ever been done.

Had you just been going around to each farmer and saying, IICanI have seed?1I

I'd just go up to them and introduce myself and say, II I'mtrying to get started as a taro farmer. And do you have seed~or do you know where I can get seed to start?1I

And they'd all, IINo~ no. There1s a shortage of seed. II And~"There is no seed anywhere. 1I

And then, this beautiful lady comes up and just gives us morethan we need. Plus~ came to our patch and helped us plant it.

Do you think that the initial reaction had something to dowith your being haole?

Oh~ living here, I know it's got .... 1 don't know if there's alot of that. Because we have so many different nationalitieshere. But I don't know. Because nothing was ever said to me.But~ it was Mrs. Duldulao, she says~ III donlt care what nationalityyou are. If I want to help you, I will help you. II Really amoving thing for me to be a stranger someplace and havesomebody be so warm and generous and open like that.

So how long did it take before Mrs. Duldulao gave you theseed? In other words, how long were you waiting to find seed?

About a month. Weld cleared the patch. And what we'd donewas, I decided I didn't know what we were going to do, so wejust decided we would just keep working. And then~ we tookthe seed that was left, when the last person had harvestedfrom our patch [before they purchased it]. We would go aroundand find the broken stalks. And I would take also the wildones, and I planted a small corner. And r thought well, ifthis is the way to start.

Mrs. Duldulao said that's how they had to start. She saidsomething about, when she saw the little corner we made withthe stuff we found, the throwaway on the bank, that she knewwe knew how to do it. And I donlt know how we knew to dothat. We just saw them on the bank and I thought, if nobodygives it to you, where do you get it? And everybody says .there isn't enough. So it must be~ you have to take it whereyou find it and plant it. And so~ there was all this stuffthat had been thrown on the bank. Like it was wasted when youthrow it away~ when you're pulling it. And so we just plantedthat in a little corner, it was a corner patch. And she said~

7

she was getting luau leaves and she saw these plants in thewater. She said she saw we knew what we were doing.

VL: Okay. Let me go back a little bit, to how you folks got theland.

Sydney:

VL:

Sydney:

VL:

Glori!l:

My mother sold her home in Oregon. I said, "You got to seethis place in Hawaii. A very beautiful place." You got totake the money that you have to invest--because after you soldsomething. I said, "Why don't you get this place down Waipioand we'll be taro farmers?" .

She wasn't too sure abou~ this. Her family had been farmersand everything and it had been a rather discouraging memory,the time they had on farms. But we talked her into it. Wesaid that we could do it. And so she bought the land.

Did she come to see the place?

Uh huh, yeah. She's come several times. The first time shecame after she buys it, she's very discouraged. She said, "Ibought a swamp." And then she came again, and with the help,we'd built a little cottage down there and we had a crop in.And so things were looking a lot better. So well, very encouragingfor her. And it's been a good investment too."

What made you decide to buy land, rather than lease it?

Because if you can have your own, I think it's better. Andthe land was available for sale right when she came. So wetook advantage of it.

VL: How much is this altogether now? The land acreage?

Gloria: Three acres.

VL: So that little plot in front of Meliton's [Ngayan] house isjust a portion of what you have?

Gloria: Yes.

VL: Did you need any other kind of financing to start off?

Sydney: Old truck. That's all we need, is just a truck. And again,as a reason, we wanted to farm. And when we were living inOregon, we thought about it but it took tractors and harvestmachines and expensive seed. And if somebody wants to startas a small time farmer, it's impossible. It's just reallyimpossible. Here in Hawaii, there's a lot of small truckfarms and things like that. And so here it is possible. Manyplaces it isn't. Because of that, there's no initial investment.

8

If you can get a hold of a piece of land and if you're asfortunate as we are, to get seed you need. Well, you're onyour way.

VL: You said that you had wanted to farm. Why did you want tofarm, even in Oregon?

Gloria: I wanted to do it to stay physically strong. And I enjoybeing outdoors a lot. My taro patch, I really enjoy it a lot.If I had my way, lid live down there.

VL: What kind of circumstances would allow you to live down inWaipio? What would have to happen, in order for you two tobe able to live there? .

Gloria: If we don't have a job next year. (Laughs) Because he's aprobationary teacher and held have to get tenure. Because wenow have our little shack down there. And welre getting setup pretty good.

Sydney: That1s what we were originally going to ~o. We were justgoi ng to sort of, I bet you call it "drop out." We were go i ngto just go down there and plant taro. And I have good successfishing and I grow things.

Gloria: There1s a lot to eat down there, if you just go look for it.

Sydney: Then I went and found a job.

(Laughter)

VL: So would you consider leaving that job in order to expand yourfarming?

Sydney: Well, the way things are shaping up, I'd say it'd really behard to say. Maybe in the future. Hard to say now. r gotinvolved there because my project. I've got a project theretoo, because 1'm starting a music program for this school and,although it's frustrating, it's also been fun. I hadn1t beenaround real young kids in a long time. It seems like a worth-while thing to do, whereas like farming seems like .... so itwould be hard to leave that [teaching]. If that would be thealternative, say, if that job weren't there, that would be togo to ~Jaipio.

VL: A lot of people say that young people will not continue tarofarming because itls too much work, it's too dirty, too muddy,they don't want to get in the mud. How do you feel aboutthat, Gloria?

Gloria: (Laughs) I don't think it's dirty. It's part of the work.

Sydney:

9

You can't work outside without getting dirty. And some peoplejust don't like that. Any kind of farm work, any time youwork outdoors, you get dirty. It's just, I guess, this justseems more gross because it's mud.

But I used to always make a joke about it, because all yourlife your parents say, IIStay out of the mud. 1I Finally, here'sa chance to really get in the mud. And for a good reason.Somebody came down to help us, said it was very therapeutic.

VL: Do you think that other young people do feel· that way, though,that it's too dirty?

Gloria: A lot of people do, yes.

VL: But you folks don't.

Gloria: No. I still am enjoying the farming, so I don't see it aswork yet. I just, it's kind of like playing in the mud.

(Laughter)

VL: How often do you folks go down now, and how much time a weekdo you spend there?

Gloria: We used to spend just weekends, when we were teaching school.But now [summer vacation], we have no schedule. We just godown when we want to go down.

VL: Is it oftener, now that it1s summer?

Gloria: It hasn't been. Because we've had the anticipation of guestscoming and we just wanted to relax from after teaching school.And right now, all we are doing is weeding. So there's onlyso many weeds. And t·1el iton keeps an eye on the water for us.

VL: So when you're working full time at the school, and you Iresubstitute teaching, you wouldn't rather do something elsewith your weekend?

Gloria: r wouldn't.Sydney: What are the alternatives? Golf. (Laughs) Drink beer and

watch the game. None of it's too productive. I really likeit, but there's some days you get up and you think, IIWork,it's really hard work. II But then you think of the alternatives.What to do with your time and what makes you feel best. Andso we always end up going down work in the taro patch. It'salways better, it is therapeutic. After you work all week,you want some sort of relief after five days. You want arelease. And going to work again doesn't seem like an obvious

10

way, but it works. It's probably the best one. It's justbelieving that. Getting up on an early Saturday morning andsaying to yourself to go to work again is the best thing todo.

VL: You harvested your first crop a couple months ago, right? Howdid that feel?

Sydney:

Gloria:

VL:

Gloria:

Real good.

Felt great.

How many bags did you harvest?

Fifty-seven bags. And that was really amazing to us. Becausewe anticipated only about 10, after seeing the rot.

VL: You had some rot?

Sydney:

VL:

Sydney:

Gloria:

Sydney:

Oh lots. Couldn't believe it.

Was that discouraging to you?

When we first found it. We go down one week and find it. Wego, "This is terrible. This is all going to be rotten." Andwe'd go down next weekend and still work. Cleared the bankand sort of look at it. And pull a few more and we'd findsome good ones. ~~e'd go, "Well, maybe it isn't all rotten."And then, the next weekend, we go .... it would sort of fluctuate.One weekend, everything we'd find would be rotten. Go out inanother area and still good.

Yeah. So we sort of laughed about it and we thought, "0h,this is going to be horrible. There's going to be maybe 10bags."

We're so 1uc ky .

We're lucky. So we said, "Who's going to buy this?"

And f.1eliton's there. He's going, "0h, you think you only get10 bags? Well, you take your 10 bags. I'll take all that'sleft. II So, we figured he knew something we didn't know.

So we got ready to harvest and we waded out there. Andfinally, we're finding taro. So we were lucky, we figured 57bags wasn't a whole lot, but from what we were expecting itwas okay. And it was something. And then we succeeded in away, where everybody said, when we first started, again, thediscouraging thing is everything will rot. And everybody issaying, "We're losing half of everything. II And, "You'll neverget a crop out of there. II And everybody was saying, even the

11

older people are saying, it's getting harder and harder.Well, the fact that we got 57 bags, I figured, it's something.We did it. It worked.

VL: Can you estimate the percentage that was rot?

Sydney: Probably half. It was very discouraging to go on and pull somany plants. It's hard, harvesting is hard work. And youpull this thing out of the ground, itJd be rotten. Verydiscouraging. (Laughs) All you can do is laugh about itbecause you either laugh or cry. Then you1d find good ones,you'd be encouraged for a while, that section would be good.And then go back to the rot.

VL: How did you find someone to market it to?

Gloria: Well, John Loo has been letting us use his gate to get to ourproperty. And he's a buyer for Honolulu Poi. So we thoughtsome way to pay him back. So we approached him. And, theprice wasn1t that high but we were glad that somebody wouldtake it because we had to cut it up so much, because of therot. And we had heard that Kona and Hilo poi factory are kindof particular at times, when they have a lot of taro that theycan get. So we thought, "Well, weJre not going to even botherto ask them."

Because, what if we sent in a shipment and then they tell us,"We don't want that." Then all that is wasted. Whereas,Honolulu Poi said they'll take anything.

VL: What was the price that you got for your 57 bags?

Gloria: $9.60 a bag, which was three cans.

VL: Eighty-pound bags.

Gloria: Yes.

VL: Do you feel that, for your labor and your efforts, tha t thatwas a good price?

Gloria: Yes. Because if we had to get a higher price, we would haveto have better taro, I think. And then we'd have to have fourcans for that higher price. We weren't that concerned aboutmaking money on this project. We wanted the experience of itmore than anything. And we got it. And, for me, it was realfulfilling. It was amazing that the thing turned out. Evenif we did have some rot. Because now we know how to do it.And after doing this, people have been more helpful, now thatwe did one crop. .

VL: In what ways are they more helpful?

12

Gloria: Well, they tell us what to do so that our next crop is better.

YY: Did you receive help in the patch, at any point, from friendsor family?

Gloria: Oh yes. Yes, my two brothers would help us sometimes.

Sydney: Some friends came over one weekend, helped us clean banks.

Gloria: We always sickle our banks. Because we didn't poison.

VL: ~~hy is that?

Gloria: We felt that if we poisoned, it might hurt· our taro. Wedidn1t know anything about taro. So that's why we didn't.But this time, we did. After we planted this crop, we poisonedthe banks this time. And it didn't seem to affect the taroyet.

YY: What kind of poison do you use?

Gloria: Roundup.

YY: Can you just buy that one [without getting a license, as youmust do with Paraquat herbicide]?

Gloria: Yes.

YY: How about fertilizers?

Gloria: We haven't used anything because our neighbor told us that weshould get some soil and send it to the University Extension.And then see what is missing in the soil. Because our lastcrop, we used fertilizer that the Duldulaos told us to use.Because that's what they use, which was 7-14-14.

VL: Neither of you have an agricultural background, right? Imean, training in school.

Gloria:

VL:

No.

Did you have to do a lot of reading, to find out how to plant?

(Gloria and Sydney laugh)

Gloria: There was no reading.

Sydney: r~r. Duldulao said, "Keep the weeds out. II I do that, when Ihad a garden, keep the weeds out. Should work.

VL: Do you think that young people should be encouraged to farmtaro in Waipio?

Sydney:

VL:

Sydney:

13

Yeah. I think so. Not as, lot of people think, "Oh, you growtaro. Itls a get-rich plan." You know, itls a very lucrativepursuit. Some people out here, I hear some young people talklike that. But, just for time spent and I see a lot of peopleseem to feel that theylre not getting too much done or theyneed some outlet like that. Maybe they're not into golf ortennis. Just for that reason, to be doing something that'sreally good, it's really good thing to do. And it seems thatlot of young people getting farther and far away from that.The farther they get away from things like farming or, whatwould you call those things--it's almost like a hobby anyway,things you do with your hand, practical things, more into funand games--the harder it gets for them to be happy. And Ithink if more people did farm or gardened or whatever .... welook at our taro farm as more a large garden at this point.And, yeah, for that reason, whatever you want to call it, goodfor your soul or whatever. That part is really good.

And in the end, if you have some success, then you do have alittle bit of a financial compensation for it. If you wouldfigure hourly wage, it would probably be ridiculous. Butthen, how else would one spend a weekend in a beautiful place,doing something productive and working and escaping in a wayall the problems that the week before and doing something.And feeling that your time is useful. And tha~ what you do isuseful. .

Producing food. Just being your own person at some point.And spending time productively. You can get around the ideathat you're working hard. I think that young people, I see alot of young people, some people my age, they talk, "We'dlike to farm, get back to the land," and all that. Theyshould. Instead of just talking about it. Sitting around anddrinking beer and getting romantic about going back to theland.

I said, "Go do it." Itls just confronting the work, gettingin the mud.

But at this point, it seems like it1s good for you as a sidething. How practical is it as a full time occupation?

I donlt know. Because I havenlt had to manage a full time,large scale operation. It would be quite an undertaking.Quite an undertaking to manage that much land. Keep track, torotate the crops properly. I don't know. It seems to be likeany other farming venture. Farms arenlt doing so well now,but in this case, there is this constant ·market. And if youdo it full time, it seems to me that the person could succeed.You just have to like farming. So many people look for a wayto get rich quick, or whatever. If a person loves farming, I

14

shouldn't see why he couldn't do well with taro farming.Because there's always a market. It'would just have to besomebody who really loves to farm. Because if it's full time,I would say, if you wanted to farm, yes. Because the market'sthere and it doesn't seem to fluctuate like other markets. Orget saturated. There's always a demand. But the problembeing with this blight, is a very discouraging thing. ,

Because, according to articles live read and what other peoplesay is, I guess, like in Tonga and in places like that, it'scompletely wiped out crops. And they say it"s moving thisway. And that it completely destroyed everything. There.they cannot grow any more. And, if that were to happen .... Ihear these discouraging reports like this and I think, well,any kind of farming, there's always been locusts and pestilenceor whatever. And that maybe that's what discourage them morethan anything, is that people leave the land quick. And whatdoes everybody do? Huddle together in an urban center andwonder where the food is. What sort of thing is that?Whereas, if you go down there to where the farming is goingon, and you try to farm and you try to figure out what theproblem is, that's the only way you get around it. Tryfigure a way out.

My neighbor next to me, he's always trying different things.And at one point, he closed down about half his patches. He'sopening them up again because he kept working. He figured outa way he could make his crops grow again. And what if everybodyhad given up? There's a lot of people that really need theirpoi. And really like taro. And what if someday this food isgone because everybody hangs it up?

VL: What do you think is the future of taro in Waipio?

Sydney: As long as the water keeps running, I think there'll always betaro there. That's what I hear. The only thing that scaresme that other places, they're drying up the water, like onOahu. I watch different parts of the island grow and r knowthey pump a lot of water out of here, this watershed for theland developments. But as long as the water flows through thevalley, I think there'll always be taro. Because people keep

. figuring out ways to make it grow. .

VL: Do you have any shortage of water now?

Sydney: No, I have an abundance of water. One way we1re very luckywhere we're located. In the future, we want to open up otherpatches. And there's lots of available water. We have ditches.

VL: Your water is from where?

Sydney:

15

From the river. And we have two main ditches. And the river.So there's lots of water. Very fortunate that way. Andplus some water I don't need, there's a waterfall that runsabout eight months out of the year. Keeps everything sort ofswampy. But it's fresh water.

To me it's encouraging. I figure that although it's wet allthe time, that this fresh water might even help things.Because one of the problems of farming has been the use of allthe chemicals and things. In a way, they're, almost a necessitynow because we built the strains and the methods of farmingthat are dependent on these things. It would take a wholerevolution of techniques to go back to not using it. Sohaving fresh water running through my area, I think, is goodso I don't get all the stuff that comes down the river. I getsome clean water too, from a waterfall.

VL: You have anything else you want to say?

Gloria: No.

VL: I think that's it.

END OF INTERVIEW

-WAIPI'O:MANO WAI

. AN. ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION

Volume I·

.. ETHNIC STUDIES ORAL HISTORY PROJECT ..

ETHN'IC STUDIES PROGRAMUNIVERSITY OF HAWAII MANOA, '

December 1978