BiblicalConf1919 Aug1 b

8/22/2019 BiblicalConf1919 Aug1 b

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I!S?3R&TIOV 0 1 * THE SPIRIT 0? PROPHECY AS BELATED TOTHE INSPIRATION OF T H E BIBLE

F r i d a y , A u g . 1 , 1919 .W s. IDwl&L, Ohalnaan: Tha topic for this hour, as arranged foren Wednesday, is a continuation, in a ffleasure^of our oonsiderationof the spirit of prophesy* and the subject of inspiration connectedw ith that", as related to^the Tn iiatioa of Ths* Bible, this~bouris not intended to-be, a forjsal discourse, oociip iag the stiole period*but Brother Daniells will lead in tse topio, and then lw has expressea wish that it-3Elgbt be a kind of round-table in which we will studythings together.

*A . G r . BASIELLS: Brother C K a i r a a n , I t h i n k t h e r e has been ad e r standing among u s . I iejas^^r"3W^SlttKXw*xx*i5Kx^K* pro

tested against taking puah a heavy 'topic the other day, under the .circumstances,, and I dismissed it froia i* y mind, and have "been thistle-ing aic&g another line, that of pastoral training, and a furtherdiscussion ot" the question we had before us. I would not feel free,under the circumstances, to give a talk on. the subject that I understand w as looked for

A s yo u know, there are tw o views held by eminent w en regardingthe verbal inspiration of the Bible. Y ou xead their views in tnebooks they have put out. O ne asan,scholarly, devout, earnest, afull believer in the Bible in every sense of the word,believesthat it w as a revelation of truth to the writers, and they were allowed to state that truth iaxi as best they could. Another manequally scholarly and pious and earnest in hie faithbelieves-that it w as a word-for-word inspiration or revelation, thst theactual words were given,that every w o r d in the original, aa it' + * .


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was w r i t t e n by t h e prophets d o w n f r o m M o a e s to M a l a c n i , was givent o t h e m by t h e L o r d . T h e s e t e e n d i f f e r , and differ honestly and s i n *

- q & r e l - y r * n& t s ^ y - f c a s t * t b e i r f o l l o w e r s a m o n g L A U ^ _ r l g ? * t - J i a c A _ f t t _ t i h A .c o n f e r e n c e , both o f t h e m ; and I s e e nothing t o be gained b y a man

-i -my pQaltijjnj Wjth y rt ff t tff -thwart thSnga, Attamp-fclng ___prove u p on c h . i s . _ I d o n o t % i a h to d o i t . We wo u ld a l l r e m a i n of

i t 1 t h i n k , a s - w e . a r e no*v * ^ ^ ^ant'to beg y o uallow i a e t o dismiss t h a t part o f i t , and either go directly i n t othe o t h e r question.of pastoral training or open t h e w ay f o r furtherquestions and discussion of t h e natter w e had before u s . I f e e li s o r e a t home in t h a t , f o r a l l t h e s e y e a r s s i n c e t h e Battle Creekcontroversy f c e g a n I h a v e been f a c e t o f a c e w i t h this question of thet e s t i m o n i e s . I have m e t a l l t h e d o u b t e r s , t h e c h ie f o n e s , and naved e a l t w i t h i t in m i n i s t e r i a l . i n s t i t u t e s , and have talked i t over andover u n t i l I am thoroughly f a m i l i a r with i t , whether I am s t r a i g h tor n o t . I d o not t a a o w t h a t t h e r e i e a c r o o k or a kink i n i t t h a t 1have n o t heard brought up by these men t h a t have f a l l em away from u s ,I would b e willing t o near f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s and f u r t h e r d i s c u s s i o n ,i f i t i s t h e wish o f - t h e c o n v e n t i o n .

W . E . H O W E L L : I am s u r e I d o n o t w a n t Brother D a n i e l l s t o f e e lt h a t h e i s disappointing us i n any r e a l ' s e : i s e this morn n g a n d ifI understand t h e w i s h e s o f t h e t e a c h e r s , i t has n o t been t h a t hes h o u l d discuss s o t o i c h t h e r a t h e r > t e c h n i c a l question of t h e v e r b a lo r truth-revealed i n s p i r a t i o n of t h e B i b l e , t u t rather t h a t heg i v e u s s o m e f u r t h e r i n s t r u c t i o n along t h e line of t h e inspirationt h a t o fof t h e s p i r i t of prophec y and i t s relation to A the B i b l e . I havenothing f u r t h e r t o press along t h a t l i n e , b u t as t e a c h e r s havee x p r e s s e d t h e m s e l v e s t o m e , I h a v e f e l t t h a t i t m i g h t b e w e l l to


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. -?- . . ...consider some aspects of that question a little further, particularlthe - u . s e of unpublished writings, letters, tallcsj etc, in the lightof ^Itafi-aa referred to here the btner day. 'Stateir"W5ite herselfsaid that if we wanted to know what the spirit of prophecy said ona thing, e should read her published writings. That is o ne ques*

^ .t . , ' ^~F. &. WHO)X: I have enjoyed these discussions very ouch. I.

enjoyed the evening of last week when the qua stIon of the spirit ofprophecy w as considered. I enjoyed very much the tal> Elder Banielfegave o n the question, and I think the view he took of the questionvery fully agrees with a s y own view. I have known for long years thew ay ia whi ch Sister Fnits's w*rks were brought together ani her bookcompiled. I have never believed in the verbal inspiration of thTestimonies. 1 must say, however, that last Wednesday evening sxm

and also slnoe then, sose remarks have beenmade without proper safeguarding, and 1 should o ^ u a felon the effectof those statements and pos-itioas out in the field, t cnow thatthere is considerable talk around Talcaaa Park ov'er positions thathave been taken here, and therd will be & *& t that same situation outin the field. A s Brother Wakehaa suggested the other day, I thinkwe have to deal with a very delicate question, and I wonlcJ hateterribly to see an influence sweep over the field and into any ofour schools that the Testimonies ware discounted. There is greatdanger in these times of ons extreme following another. There isgreat danger of a reaction, aad I do feel concerned.

I h^ve iisard questions raised hare that iiav-i Isft tho iTnprsss-ion o n iy salad that if the saase questions ars raised in our classeswhen we get back to our schools, ?;e are going to have serious


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culty. I believe there are a great many questions that we shouldhold back, and not discuss. I am not a teacher in a school, al-thougat I did teach the Bible 1 3 years in a aursss' training school,where I had .a large number of young people; bit I can not conceivethat it is necessary for us to answer every question that is pat tous by students or others, or be driven into a place where we will

a~po s'itlof t h e Spirit o f G o d s r e - a . g r e a t a s s e t t o t h i s d e n s m i n a t i o n , and Itthink i f w e destroy f a i t h i n t h e m , - w e a r e going t o d e s t r o y f a i t hI n t h e v e r y foundation o f o u r w o r k . I must say t h a t I d o v i e w witha g r e a t d e a l of c o n c e r n t h e i n f l u e n c e t h a t will g o o u t f r o m t h i sm e e t i n g , and f r o m q u e s t i o n s t h a t I h a v e s e e n raised h e r e . And un-

, ' ' - . Jless these Questions can be dealt with moat diplomatically, - - T thinkwe are going to have serious trouble. I surely hope the Lord w:llgive us wisdom so that - - w e shall kmw what to say and do in meetingthese things in the future.

C . L. B E H S Q N : I have felt very much concerned along the samelinej and the question that has raised itself in my o wn mind goesa little further than has been brought up here; but it seems to meit is almost a logical step. That is this: If there are such

uncertainties with reference to our historical position, and ifthe Testimonies are not to be relied o n to throw a great deal oflight upon our historical positions, and if the same is true withzeference to our theological interpretation of texts, then ho wcan we consistently place implicit confidence in the direction thatis given ?rith reference to o-ur educational problems, and our medicaldenominational -school, and even our organization? If there is a definite spiritualleadership in these things, then ho w can we consistently lay asideor partially lay thea asidethe Testimoniss^when it come s to the prophetic -anti historic side of


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t h e ' m e s s a g e ; and p l a o e t h e s e t h i n g s on t h e basis of r e s e a r c h woxktT h a t question i s i n m y m i n d , a n d I am c o n f i d e n t t h a t i t i s i n thea s l n d a of O t h e r s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _ , . . : . . . . . - . . _ . . . . . . , . _ . . . . . . . . .

W A L D O R F : T h a t i s i n m y m i n d . That i s w h y I b r o u g h t o u t t h a t- n on t f t a ^a.aJr"hQa.Td this a Q T - n i ng, hose three rivers,

h i s t o r y , s p i r i t of p r o p h e c y , a n d t h e B i b l e .J . f i . A H B E R S 0 8 : I t h o u g h t when we dismissed t h e s u b j e c t tlm

other day t h e main question w a s ho w w e a s t e a c h e r s s h o u l d d e a l witht h i s question when w e stand b e f o r e our e t u d e n t _ e . I t h i n k w e havec o r a s t o q u i t e a unanimous o p i n i o n a b o u t t h i s m a t t e r among ourselves\h e r e , a n d w e stand pretty w e l l t o g e t h e r , I s h o u l d s a y , a s t o whatposition t h e Testimonies occupy,thei r authority and t h e i r relation

, * 'to the Bible, and so on,but the question in my raind, and in themind of some others, too, I "think, is What shall w e as teachers dowhen we stand before our Glasses and some historical question comes*9 have decided thatup, such as we have spoken of here, where A Sister White's writingsare not final? W e say there are many historical facts that w ebelieve scholarship must decide, that Sister White never claimed tobe final on the historical matters that appear in her writings. A rew e safe to tell that to our students? or shall w e hold it in abeyance? A nd can we held something in the back of our head that wewe are absolutely sure about, and that most cf the brethren standwit ih us on?---can we hold those things back and be true to ourselves?A nd furthermore, are we safe in doing it? Is it well to.let ourpeople in general go o n holding to the verbal inspiration of theTestimonies? When we do that, aren't we preparing for a crisisthat will b e very serious some day? It seems to m e that the bestthing for us to do is to cautiously and very carefully educate our


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p e o p l e . t o s e e J u s t w h e r e w e really should s t a n d t o b e c o n s i s t e n tP f c o t e s t a n t s , to b e c o n s i s t e n t w i t h the Testimonies t b e s & e l v e s , andt o b e c o n s i s t e n t with w h a t w e k n o w w e o u s t , d o as i n t e l l i g e n t m e n ,'as w e have decided In these meetings. ;____Ofcourse these are not such big questions, because I do notteach along this line* Still, they.do soaetiffies arise in to y classesBut personally *a I a m not concerned about it. I a m concerned about""."'' \ ' , - ' -the faith of th y & a & g . men and women that xxxl c ome into ourrschools. They are to b e our leaders, and I think these are the dayswhen they should fee given the very best foundation ne can give theauW e should give them the most sincere and honest beliefs that we havein our own hearts, .

I speak with some feeling because it does come close to ay con-* . . .vlet ions that something should be done here in this place,Here iswhere it o an be done-to safeguard our people, to educate theas andto. bring them back and cause thea to atand upon, the only foundationthat c an ever be amire as i e advance an4, progress,: ~ " . 'C L . TATLQfi: With regard to the verbal inspiration of the/ - *Teetimoniea, I would say that I have haard more about it here inone day than ever before in sty life* I think we have made a greatbig mountain of difficulty tc go out and fight against. X do notbelieve that our people generally believe in the verbal inspirationof the Testimonies. I think that the general idea of our people isthat the Testimonies are the writings of a sister who received* l i g h t f r o m G o d . A s t o v e r b a l i n s p i r a t i o n , I t h i n k they havs a v e r y

%ill-dsfined idea. I think they believe that in some w ay Go d gaveher ligiit, and she wrote it down, and tney do not know what verbalinspiration means.


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-7 - B ut I do see a groat deal In the q&eetion Professor Bsnson

raised, and that is if we ssust lay aside what Slater White has aftidinterpreting Metoxy. .or what .ire aight call.the phUosophy of b^is:-tory, as unreliable, 3114 also lay aside as unreliable expositions

taariptura, the only natural conclusion for m e . and-probably fora great many others, would be tbafe th* same, authoriship- is mrol&a&taregarding organization, regarding .pantheism,, ami every otherthat she eve* treats! on;that she aaj Irwe told the truth, buthad better get all the historical date we oan to see whether shetold the truth or not . ?hat is aoeethinr I woul


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hold the ftgteo vie* that he does* I do not depreciate another man* Afaith or standing with Go d at all because t ie holds a different view.I think we could argue about the inspiration of the BibleI ,*as ,going to say till ddomsdaytill the end, and not come to1;h sameview, but all have the same confidence in it, and nave "the sameexperience, and all get to the sasie place at last.:

B ut noTr irith reference to the Testimonies:,, 1 think, torchief can be dons with the Testimonies by claiming their verbalr- ' "spiration than can with the Bible. 'If yo u ask fof the logic of it,it might take some time to bring it out, and I might, not.be able tosatisfy every mind;, but if yo u ask for practical experience, T can

give it to you, -plenty of it, ', : " ~ ~ . . - . . . - -,F. M . W T L O O X : Beoa^ê 'We kaoir ho w the Taatimonlaa were brought

together, and we do not know anything about the BibleA . C t . DA1TOLLS: Y e s , that is o ne point. W e do know, and it

is no kind of us for X & $ A M % anybody to stand up and talk about' A.verbal inspiration, of the Testimonies, because everybody who. hasever aeen the w o r k done teao^s better,, and w e might as **el l dismissit.

M . E. X E R N : I am not so sure that some of the brethren areri it in saying that we are all agreed o n this question. I catae

V ' 'in here the other day for the first time to attend the Conference,and I ôuld hear the saras nan in the sarae talk say that e could notdepend o n this historical data that w as given in the spirit ofprophecy, and then aesert his absolute confidence in the spirit ofprophesy and in the Testimonies. A nd tên a little further alongthsre woula be aomathing else that he w o u l d not agree with. For to-stands, the positive test isictjy against butter w as xs tK mentioned,


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123and he explained t h a t there a r e exceptions t o t h a t . Latex he wouldagain s a y , " I have absolute c o n f i d e n c e i n t h e i n s p i r a t i o n of t h es p i r i t o f prophecy.* T h e q u e W i o n Is/W^^^r a t i o n ? Eow o a n e f e e l , and b e l i e v e , and k n o w t h a t . t h e r e i s an in-consistency there,soâsthing t h a t i s n o t right,--ana y e t believe "

t h e*. G. D&BXELL9; Yes, I get yottr questiojiM . E. Z ER: That is the difficulty we have in explaining this

to young people, t?e may have confidence ourselves, but it is hardto make others believe it if *e express this atore liberal view.. Ican se^ hot? some might take advantage of this liberal view and goout and eat meat -evsry meal* and say -that, -part of the..Testimoniesis not reliable. , '

QU2 ST IO S : Cant hat, do the same thia if he believes in theverbal inspiration? , - '

a, E. S E H H : Sot quite so consistejstly. If he believed eireryw o r d w as inspired, h3 could not oonsistently JwiXBSRsxiss sit dowsand eat meat.

A . G . D A S t E L L S : But I have seen them do it.M . E. KSRft : B ut act conscientiously. But no w take a man who

delves into tha Scriptures, and he reads the H ebrew and the. Greefc,and he goes out and tells the people, If y o x i understood the Greek,yo u would not get that meaning from the Bible, or If Sister Whitehad understood the Greek, she ôuld not have said that. S u c h a manc an t tUse a , lot of license frois this iiberBl view. N o ^ , the questiois running in dy mind this âyt In the very nature of the case,isn*i; there 2 . h v u a & n . element in inspiration, "because God had to speakthrough human instrument?? A nd c an *, either in the Bible or the


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.** " * *"'.-Testimonies, play u p o n a w o r d and lay down the law and bind a man'sconscience o n a w o r d instead fr f the general view of the w h o l e scope

~ T s t ~ isterpretalstoaT I dornaot-beiisire *-wta can . beiteve in the gem-era! inspiration of the spirit of prophecy and still not believethat vege^a larBt^r1^~^ie^ttel'i3g^for ffiaaldad;I canthat te 'ff t*"oay ?**- r A * t * B - for ladivldtia.ls t and theye are exceptions

ato it, and ho* Siste* White .asistake in atatiag a truth, and still not destroy, the inspirationof the spirit of prophecy; but the question is ho w to present thesematters to the people. Brother Taylor azay aee no difficulty, laitI ee a lot of difficulty* not only in dealing with our students,but with . our P*opl in general, . " .- _ =-...--.

A . S. DASI SLLSt On the question of verbal inspirationtil,.E,. B 3 E R K : - Brother Benson's Question is to the point. W e

WVV " L ...had a council here a few weeks ago, and we laid dovn pretty straightsome principle* of education, and also some technicalities of education,*fesiKfc an4 w f ofesed ojar concXus- iona "bn the authorit y of

1 r-t h e s p i r i t of p ^ Q p J m c y * a i t . w a s - w r i t t e n , $QW w e c o m e , t o t h o s eh i s t o r i c a l q u e s t i o n s , , and w e s a y , %all, S i s t e r i f n i t e w a s mistakena b o u t t h a t , and t h a t needa t o b e r e v i s e d . " T h e i n d i v i d u a l w h o d i d

' ^not' quite see the points that we made at the educational & councilw ay sayf "Well, possibly Sister Whi te is wrong about the influenceof universities, 1 1 and it is hard to convince him that she w asright, perhaps. I want, somehow, to get o n a consistent basismyself,

\fe-ny years a?o I X * K * w as in a meeting where Dr. tell .33 andothers w$rs considering a business rcatter. Dr. Kello :g tasrs tooka position exactly contrary to awcttu**H*ttX soasthing Sister


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- ; ' --.''-" , . . .-/-/". " .:. 123?- 1 1 - - ". ' r ' t

White had said. Ihea asked ho w be explained what she had said, hereplied that she had been influenced to say it. H e w as runningdown the Testimonies there , A short tiiae after that:--!- read one ofhis articles in the paper, in which he w as laying, down the law onthe basis of the Testimonies,Th i aada ae lose isyftr, genpg^ T Q n ona point that he did gat agree withy ha said. . . . __she ha-i been Influenced. Then he toot this other thing that pleasedhiss and he said it w as from the Lord. Perhaps he thought one wasfrom the Lord and the other w as not. B ut we certainly do have difficulty in showing the people amsxextkxsH iuB sa which. is human andwh i c h is divinely inspired.

. . G. E _ . . T H O M P S O N S . iWultin't that be true of the Bible?M . g. KERff: That is w hy 1 pox propose that we disouss the

nature of inspiration. I have a sort of feeling that Sister Whitew as a prophet just as Jeremiah was, and that In time her w o r k will

*show up like Jereaiah^s. I wonder if Jeremiah, in his day, did notdo a lot of talking and perhaps some writing which was, as J B E Paulsaid, o n his oira authority. I wonder if, in those d*rws, thepeople did not have difficulty in differentiating between what w asfrom the Lord .and what w as not. But the people make it more difficult no w because all of Sister White's articles and books are witfcus, and her letters, too> and many think that every word she hasever said or written is from the Lord. W e have had sanitariumsbuilt o n account of letters she has xxz& written f roos a depotsomevshere. A nd unfiertakinsrs involving great financial inveatmentshave been started because of a letter f?o?n her. There is no questitbat whcit many young people, and also ministers, have that idea, andit is a real problems with sse. I wish we could get d own to bedrock, I do not think we are there yet.


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1238-18-W . 1. PRESCOTT: I wo u l d like to ask If you think that, after

his writings, had been published & series of years, Jeremiah changedthe -b e cause he as convinced t&at. there were historical errors intbea? > '

M . E > ER U:I can not aas^e-r that.. . . . . . . _ ] ? _ * _ _ ? _ * _ . _ f 4I^BA^_:__.._Ther^ is a . : rt&jii_f A c ^ A t v ^ arid * e

i t t o a s e s t . 1 ? e may say t h a t t h e people d o cot b e l i e v e , i n the verbalinspiration of t h e Testimonies. Perhaps technically they do n o tk n o w w h a t i t a i e a o e . B u t that i s not the question at a l l . T hey haveaccepted the Testimonies a l l over t h e c o u n t r y , and b e l i e v e t h a tevexy identical word t h a t Sister White has w r i tten ras t o be r e -

. . tcsived a s infallible t r u t h , W e have that thing to meet w h e n , w e- . . * *g e t b a c k , and i t w i l l b e brought up in ' o u r c l a s s e s j u s t a s s u r ea s w e stand here, because i t has c o s i e t o me o v . e r and over a g a i n

w .*af ,. t

in every class I have taught. It net oz3 .y codes out in classes,but in the churches. I know we navs a very delicate task beforeus if r e meet the situation and do it in the *ay the Lord Baatsit aone. I aa praying very earnestly for help as is I go baok toaeet 6ume of the things I know X am going tc aaeet.

IS . E B O ^ E L L : Surely we are getting oui- difficulties aired>.veil this morning, and that is perfectly proper; but 7 . e i iave' only

ten sinutat left of the period in which to give sose attention tothe solution of those di-ficulties. W e have invited men of suotlarger experience than e are to come . in and help us and give ustheir counsel . It seeas to ae se rs cugrht tc give their sere tiice.

G. B , T H O M P S O N ; It seeirs to me that if ae are going' to preaohthe Testimonies aud .establish confidence in thesr.^ It doss not dependon whether 'they are verbally JOKK^A inspired or not. T tbint. r;e

in tLis fix because of a - wro n g education that our people have


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1033-13-had. [Voice: That is true,] If we had always taught the truthon this question, e i?ould not have any trouble or shook in theden^ziinat ton i ir>v But the sbosfc is because we have set taught thetruth, and have put the Testimonies on a plane where she says theydo "not s l svKd.ê hareciaigie^ more for them than she

_fifcat the evidence of the IflBpiratlos of the TSatt-moni8,s is nut in their, verbal ioagretto&, I s 1 0 * in their influenceana posver in. the deuoir.lna.tion. H o * to illustrate; Brother Dan.iellsand I were in Battie Creek at a special crisis, and irord came tous that eoaia special testitcoaies tfere an the w ay to us fros. SisterWhite, aad for us to stay there until they came. ^hen tbey came

_ ^ r e found they were to be read to the people. They were- of a veryserious character. They had "been written- a- year before and filedaway. Brother Daîiells & nd I prayed &iou t it, arid then we sent out.* * JT* - - _the word to the people that, a meeting w as to be held at a , oartaintime* When the time oaia, about 3,000 papld oame into the Tabex-ur.cle, and they filled it up, evert aay b 'a .c V . up into the "p-anutrallery, There ^sr&- unbeli0\' ers and- skeptias there', < * ; ? all cl&saeBrother Daniell? stood up there and read that reatter to them, andI teli, yo u there W H . S a p o w e r went *ith it that gripped thst wholecongregation. A nd after the nesting w as over, people came to usand tola us that the Testimony described a casting they had baldthe ni^ht before.. I w as oonînoei that there w as niore tnaii ordinarypowsr ia that âa^kHi"3 doouaiQi i t . It w as not whether it isras verbally ir.spirsd or a^t, but it oarried the po-ssr of the Spirit ofGo d *ith it.

I t;iin:r if * 3 co^ld get at it froa that line, - * e -*ouid ire,d, w e know that, and

what ia the use of peaching that they are?


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.- " -14-' ; . " - . ' . -1 *ould like to suggest that' this question of

verbal inspiration does not settle the difficulty,, _ , _ . . . 0 . _ . )^_SQRISSOH: . _ _ _ D O < ? B Sister Wfeite Hejtihe -word înspiration*concerning hex own writings, or is that sorely a :ieory; *e. have:;.:

d U P ourselves? I aalc for information'/ . I have liever ssenthat in iier writings.

A . G. D A H T S L L B : I itaroly f a s p i r - tere to bsgiii c .r iditit to-j..;.I think I ffinst ripest this, tbut our difficulty"lies:, in tw o points,especially. One is o n infallibility and tne otbsr is o n verbalinspiration. I .think Brother Jaasre Wbi te foresaw-d iff sal ties alo^this line away baoV at the beginning* H e Jrmw that he took Siat*rWhite's testimonies and helped to'writ* them,oat and oafce thwr... .:.olear and graaattical and plain. B e inew that he *as doin^ that -right along. A nd he kaew that'the secretaries they employed tookth-ew and put theat into "grararBatical oondttion, transposad 8snteneei .completed sentsnoes,. and used words that Sister White did not herself write in her original copy. H e a* that, and yet he sat? eone-bretbren who did not too* this, and who had great confidence in theTestimonies, just believing and teaching that these words were givento Sister Wîite as well as the thought.. A nd he tried to correctthat idea. Y ou will find those statements in the Revie?t and Heraldlike the o ne Brother Wilcox real the other day. S If that explanation i i *d been aoseptsd and ?asêi o n 'iom-, *z w o u l d have been freefrom a great many perplexities that * e nave now.

F. M , TILC03C: Articles *ere published in those early Review*disclaims that.

A . 3. D fLts: Yes, but vcv kno-s 'there are some brethren w ho~c in all over. W s could mention so^s oil ana soê vouag- she. thtnlcthey cannot believe the Testimonies withcot-Just'putting the?? up aa"


15/77

-15-, ..-..' . "absolutely infallible aad wo rd - inspired, taking the whole tiling as

given verbally by the Lord. They do act see ho w to $s* believe themd h o * * to-get--good out,-of th.jsje . .eAJSepi. is^tliart..^.^^^ and I sxjpppoe

people woLdd feel that if they did not believe" In the verbalr u n < > f t . - f r ^.ifrlf, y g 3 ? - f t they -could not have -confici noe in

It, and take it as trie great Book . -that t&ey no w .see it to b e* ' Borne.men are technical, and- caa fcardly-.xaa.de.r^ataaad, It in; any .ether ;*S c K a e other men are not so technical In Iogic4 but they have greatfiiith an d great confidence, and so they can go , through o n anotherline of thought. T am sure there has been advocated an idea ofInfallibility in Sister W^.ite and .verbal inspiration in the Testi-

^monies tnat ha,e led people, to expect too.cxucli ,and to malre too greatolaf&s, and ao we have'gotien into difficulty,"

N o w , as I have studied it these years since I #as thrown intoti-e controversy at Battle Creek, I ,havs endea^ore


16/77

settle--things about the spirit of pxopheoy. hese false positionshaci sever been 'tafcen, the-thing raouTd b e much plainer "tfcan it istoday, ^hat as onarged as plagiarism w o u l d all'have, been sirapli-fiea, and I oeiieve jaen would have been saved to the cause if fromthe sv.fcrt _ w e _ hod _uadgratood this taing aa it should have been, "With

false views held> we face aifficulVies iu straightening up.W e sill not aeet those difficulties by re sort lug to a false claim." W e caula joeet them just for today by saying, "Brethren, I believein the verbal inspiration of the Testimonies; I believe in the ia-ftilli-bil-ity of the oce through whom they came, and everything th"atis written there I will take and'I will stand on that against allcomers." " - ' - . - . ' -,'"./, - - " , ' " " / ' .

If 's e did that, I would jost take everything- from A to " ^ exactas it w as written, without caaking any explanations to any one; andI f toulc i not eat butter or salt or eggs if I believed that the Lordgave the "words in those Testimonies to Sister Wiii^e for the , whole bo iof people ia tjaie world. B i i t I. ao not believe it., .

M . E. E E R K : Y ou ooulda*t and keep your conscience olear.) A . G . D A S I E L L S : H o , I couldn 1 *; but I do not believe that; andX can enter upon an explanation of heal ta refora that I thinV. isconsistent, and that she endeavored to cring in in later years whenshe saw people making a bad use of that. I have eaten pounds ofbutter at aer table myself, an.I dossns of eggs. I could not explainthat in ner o w n faaiiy if I believ-sd tnat she balisved tnose ^erethe Lord's own w o r d s to the world. -But there are people w ho belieietbat ana do not aat eggs or butter. I do not novs that they usesaiU, t kao-v >lenty of people in the early days did not uae salt,and it vi^s in ou.r ohurch. I an: cure that icaiiy children suffered


17/77

from it, .There is no use of our claiaing anything more on the verbal in*

apiration o f- the Testimcmisa, because she never claia*ed-it,- a-sd- - .James White never claimed it, and W . C . Shite never claime-i it; and

persona who helped to-preff&ê- those *Se-st-&so4eo faaew the-ysere not verbally inspired. I Kill say no asore _ôgg__tfc&t_ line,, _

D . A . P A R S Q S S : S he not only did, not claim, it, but. she deniedit.

A . G. DA K I E LLS : . Yes, she tried to oorrecx the people.S o w , on infallibility. I suppose Sister miite used Paul's text,

S 7 ? e nave this treasure in earthen vesseia, f t as much as any otherscripture. S he steed to repeat that often, M W e have this treasure ineartnen vessels," with the idea that she w as a poo;, feeble ôman,a messenger of tne Lord trying to do her duty and &eet the. icinci ofG O C L in this siorfc. ISiliea yo u take the position that she w as not infallible,,. and that her writings were not, vertaily luaplre.^ isa,tthere a chance for the nsanifestation of the huroan? It there isn't,tiles what is &tfa3 . i i1 i l&y? A ad saould'.Tse be sui-p^^ged vfcjx ^ J B fenowthat the -instrument wa.s fallible, and that the general tru'tbs, aashe says, were revealed, then aren't i s r e prepared to see mistakes?

M . E. K E R S i ; S he *aa an author and not merely a pen.A . G. DA H I S LLS : Yes; and no w take that life of Paul," I sup

pose yo u all K a j r * ' about it and knov? what olalass were put up againsther. charges saade of plagiarise, even by the authors of the book,Conybeo,re and Howson ^ & & & were liable to aake the denomination

trouble because there w as so much of their b o o k put inô "The Life tfPaul" without any credit or quotation isarks, So i ss papple of strictxogic might .fly the track o n -that ground, but I am not built that;


18/77

.-.:..--^ ' , . - ; . .-4J644 :I found it out, and I ze&d it with Brother palmer when he found It,\\and J e got C&n^bea-re and Boieae^ and ^8 got "Wylie 1 s" "History 6 ,fT i e formica, and we rs&d w o r d for, word,, ,pr*ge aftsr page, and no

n-,'. no credit, stud really I aid not fciiow the difference untiI beran to compare- the^. T supposed it w&s Sister IFeite's o w n work.he poor sister 0 , 3 13, ""'"fcy, I didn't V n o ^ about auotations and

r-. M y secretary should h-tye looked afte*; iiouse shoixLd b * T loofcedr stfter it.* .

S ne did not claioi that that w as ell revealed to her and written.r:ord for -t?crd, -utJds-r .the inspiration of the Lord. There .1 sa w theiter.ifcsts.tioj: of the bureau in theee writings. , Of course T couldiiave 3aid this, a,ix;t t did say it, that I wished a different .courseh& d basn t"a}:en"ija""tlie"co'2p*ilat"ion"df ."tfte'book's. If proper care Had"been exercised* it would have saved a lot of people free baingtaxo'A'n- off the track.""""

L'RS. T f l L L IA^ S : Tiae sscrst ry woula feoow that she ought not toquits a tr=iag ? i t ao> i t aslng quotation ^sarka.A . 0. DASTELJ.? : - Ton would tMnk eo.' I do not know w no thesecretary v-afc. The book w as aet aside, ani I nave nevsr learnedjpto had a hand in fixing that up, - It say be tnat some do kno.

B . L. H O U S E : ay I ask o ne question about tnat book? DidSister Ttite rite any of it?

A . G . DAHIELT.S : 0, yes*E. t* H O t T S E : But tbere are S O J T , & tliings ifaat are not in Coay-beare and E o w a o n that are not in the ne* book . , either. T S h y arethoau striking statear.nsts not eabodisd in the new book,

A . G D A S I E L - t S : -T oansot tsll you. But ifher writings wereve itally inspired,, vrty sboul-i she revise t'r-er?


19/77

E. L, H O U S S : M y difficulty is not with the verbal inspiration.Vy difficulty is here; Y o u take the nine volumes of the Testisonie^and as I understand it. Sister Ifoite wrote the original isatter fromishich tney were made up, except that they vere corrected so - far asg-ramar, capitalisation and punctuation are concerned. But suchbooks &s "Sketches of tfca Life of Patti," "Desire -of Ages,**7 "even~b~yher secretaries than. " the nine- voi iames of tha Testijsonies.. Is thesenot a difference? I have felt that the Testimonies were not pro-

like thope other books, .A . G. DAslFLlS: I do not know hotf auch revision she sright havein these personal Tsstiaoaies hefors she put -them out.

' B V Lv T S Q r t F S E s " "Did' any Oiie aTBf e 'Yet write anyt'r.ing that' isfound in the nine valises of the Testironies?

A . G , D A H I E L L S : *cr ; I do not know -that thers are any quotationsin the Teetiasonies.

E. L. S O U S K : Isn't there a difference, the.ii, feet-seen the ninevolumes of the Testimonies and tfcose other books for which hsr se.o*ret&riss were fltuthorized to collect valuable quotations from other/books? ' %

A , G. DANTFLlrS: Y o u admit that she had the xisht to revise herwork?

B . L. H O U S E : 0, Yes.A . G, PATTFI.T.$: Then your question is, " W h y did she lears out

of the revision eotas striking things that she wrote that it seemssacuid have been put in?

3, L, H O U S F : Yes.w . F. K F R T J : I 3 a the first volume c -f the spirit of prophecy

"" - ,'there are eoise details? siven if I aa not aiataken, as to the


20/77

-30-height of Adam. It sesais to & & that when she want to prepare"patriarchs and prophets for the public, evm though that had been

her -- - f e -JLtd not see*- wise to, put that before ^th* public. -A . 0, D A M X 5 L L 3 : A nd sh e also left out of our b o o k s for the

that aoeate of Satan playiag tlie game oa. I. HO-J3Rt la taat. old elition of "Sketches of the Life o f.

Paul," aid is very clear aôut -tk& ^^reaionlal la*. . ."- Tbat.is sotin the new book, and I wondsred - 3 ? b . y tJaat aas Isft out.

D..A. P A R S O N S : I hav= an answer to ttiat. I w as in Callfora ifttae book was somjxiled, and I took trie old edition ana talkedBrother Till laite about titis very question. H e said the whole

book, with tfaa.exMption of thai chapter , had beu Ooaspi led for"soms tiie, and they had -held It up until 'they ooul arrange that .chapter -in sucb . a ,*ay & s to prsv&at ooc.troversy arisThey dla not dsira the book to ba used to settle anyand t^nrefore tn.ey eliailftjited ifio.st of those stataossts o r, the oere-ffiouiai law just to prevent a renewal of the gra^t controversy overtha csismontal .law in, Calatiaas.

E . L. H O O S E : It is not a repudiation of what w as written byher ir; the first volume, is it?

D . A. FKH3D!SS: So, not at all; but thsy just put enough into fcjutis'Iy tae iiiûiriag rtiud, oat eiiarAuated taose strilcln? state-

fs to prevent a renewal of ths- controversy.P. . WILCOX: I would like to ask, Erathsr Baniells, if it.

ba accgptel as a sort of rule that Sister fiilts. rir-ht be mis-int*,ken iti aetaiis, biiv^the gansrai policy a.ad ioetruction she sasan i,uti:;rity. Far instance, I hs:iT a rân saying^ I can not acceptSister ? . ; ;:ite on this, " ,bsn p,.raap^ srje ha,5 devoted p^ge?; to tha dis-cession of it.' A 'juaa said he cu j ilr. not accept v'4iat sister ^..L e sai


21/77

about royalties on books, and yet she devotee pages to that subject,and ersphasizes it a=*a.in and again; and it is the saite with policiesfox our schools ana-publishing houses and sajiitarroas-, -It seems tof l i e I T O aid. h-ivs to accept wnat she says on soms of those general"policies or "I -.'.cull have L w a*tgsp aa,y the tfLule th'^ng.

. . .or. B e . hd.a not apokan tbrher; .and if it is a matter, of daîd^ng-. ia ssy 'dwzr ôdg iBMEt ;sh3tJi-sr ,H enae pr J iaa not, then I regard ber books the same as every other -bookpublished. I think it ia oae thing for a ssan to sttiitify fais-con-soisnca, and it ia^yther thiag to stultify Ms judgment. It isoae thing for m^ to J B lay aside my. aonssieves, and it is anotherthl;ig for ^6 .to change ray judênt over some views that I hold,

A . G. D&71ISLLS: I think Brother Bfeaaon's


22/77

- . . . -.-., . 1 3 4 8A . G. DA5IKLLS : ?ell, & O K , which statement stall w e take, the .

or the revised?: . ' , : .SUler nHe . df3tt

not write eithsr the old edition or tSe. Revises, as- 1 understand it.___h f f K Q t F . L L S t What da yo v 3 s $ Q . n by saying that she -lid not

, eilti-anlB . L. HO'GSl : A a I ^nd^rsstasd t^Elder , - J . -S . And^raoa

those iaiatorical" ftaita-tiwaa for the oli "edition, and' Brother pprofessor presoottBrother Cxialer,A anci others futfaished tlie quotations fcr the newe d i t i o n " . Bid s e ^ x " i t a " t s

A . G * * A X S & 5 . DASIKLLS: N o . : ' ;B . L > . H O D S 1 , : Then there, is .3. ilffeience "bet^ssn the Tea-timoaiala

and those boo 'Jrs . , - - . ' . -'--,-'.. , , . 1 ? . ^ PSFSSOTT: C*u*ng3 have t>0en aia-ie in ahat #a3 not histori

cal extract st all. , -;- ..A. d. , M ^ I E L L S : S X e x x SJMSir ' . sw noi"ocafin otirselves just no w

tsj tbis


23/77

-33-gather the very best historical statements they coui'd and subirit themto aer,


24/77

125Q-24-yearB . Some peode say antichrist is yet to c o m e , and is to laetfor three and one-half literal years. If yo u change those positionsyo u w: 1 1 change the philosophy. _ . :

*

W W . PRESOOTT: D O I understand Brother Benson'a view is that-s^cfti a statement aa that in * Great GontrowrgyT Jt^tb^t--$he-1860 yearsbegan, ia ._53B_an*L ended_J,n_.1216* settlesjthe matter infallibly t

0. L BESSOf*: H o , only on the preaching of doctrines in generaIf she endorses the prophetic part of our interpretation, irrespective of details, then she endorses It.

W . 1, PKESCOTT: Then that settles it as being a part of thatphilosophy.

C . 1, B E 5 S 0 8 : Tea, in this way: I do not see ho* we dan doanything else but set up our individual judgment if we say we willdiscount that, because we have'Something else that we think is betteevidence. It is the same with education and the medical science.ii1. W . P HES C OT F t To u are touching exactly the experience througwhich I went, personally, because yo u all know that I contributedsomething toward the revision of "Great Controversy." I furnishedconsiderable material bearing upon that question,

A . G . DA NIEL L S : B y request.1. W , PHESOOTT: Tee, I w as asked to do it, and at first I saig

" H o , I will not do it. I .know what it means. 1 1 B ut I w as urged intoit. When I had gone over it with If. C . WHIts , then I said, " H ere isay difficulty. I have gone over' this and suggested changes that ougto be oade in order to correct statements, these changea have beenaccepted, tfy personal difficulty will be to retain faith on thosethings that I can not deal with o n that basis.* B ut T did not throwthe spirit of prophecy, and have not yet; but I have had to adjust icview of things. I will say to you, as a matter of fact, that the ,


25/77

-2 5-i ' ~ trelation of t h o s e w r i t i n g s t o t h i s m o v e m e n t and to our w o r k , i s

c l e a r e r and m o r e c o n s i s t e n t i n 07 mind t h a n i t w a s t h e n . B u t s t i l ly o u k n o w what I am charged w i t h . _ 3 - h a v e g o n e through = t h - personale x p e r i e n c e myself o v e r t h a t very t h i n g t h a t y o u s p e k k o f . I f we '

* * * j-*^ *Mftfi f^nf*l* wartr$9w~9tiU*V*W* Athe other places?

F * S. W IL Q * : Taos* things-do. nolr larolve. tfee^geaeraa; philosophy of the book.

W . W . P R E S O O T T : H o, fcut they did involve quit* large details,F or instance, before Sreat


26/77

'1252J. S. A K B E R S Q K ; W o u l d you not claim other portions of the book

as on the same basis?W ; W . -? HE S C O Tt : So, I wouid refuse to dorthat^ I had to^deal

with A . . R. HSt t ry over that question.' He w as determined to crushtfiose men taat took a wrggg^gosr&e concerning him. I spont houra witbat-ataa drying to -help hlm^_ J & B L Jtejre; intimate in our or)tj _and tused to go to ilia house and spend T&ours with him. He brought upthis question about the. authority of the spirit of prophecy andwanted m e to 2stfta draw the line between wha t w as authoritative andwha t w as not. I said, "Brother Henry, I will not attempt to do it,and I advise you aot to do it. There ia an authority in that gifthers, and w e arast recognize it.*

I have tried to maintain personal confidence in this gift inthe ohurch, and I use it and use it. I have gotten great help fromthose books, but I will tell you frankly that I help: to that position on the question of Babylon for years when I knew it w as exactlycontrary to


27/77

-37- - : . .C. P. B O L L U 4 B : Could you tell, in 4ust a few words, how the

Bible helped you? , .W . W PRESQOfci : That wou l_d involve the whole question of "

the beast-. - . - / ._______________________ _________ __________ - _____ - ___ : '_ _ ' - " N -VOICE: To your knowledge , hae Sister W h ite ever made a dif-fV i-e*iee~between her nine volumes aad lnsr other books? --

W , W . P BE S C O fT ; I ham neve*L-iwflWt with 1a#r 9oi$t ;it* lamind, there is a differeaee between the works she largely preparedheraelf and what me prepared by others for :ale to the^public.A G . mH&IS* tou might as well etate that a little fuller,the difference in the w ay they were produced.I F . W , P R E S O O T T : If I should epeak ay find frankly, I Bhouldsay that I have felt for years that great mistakes were made inhandling her writings for commerc ia l purposes.

C . M . S O B E H S O : By whom? , . . :W . W . P S E S C O T T : I d o n o t w a n t t o c h a r g e a n y b o d y . B u t I d o

think g r e a t m i s t a k e s w e r e m a d e in t h a t w a y , T h a t i s why Z h a v ea d i s t i n c t i o n k B t i a K J i a s I h a v e . W h e n I t a l k e d w i t h W . C * W h i t ea b o u t i t ( a n d I d o n o t k n o w t h a t h e i t a n i n f a l l i b l e a u t h o r i t y ) ,h e t o l d a e f r a n k l y t h a t w h e n t h e y g o t o u t G r e a t C o n t r o v e r s y , * i f

. tthey did not find in her writings anything on certain chapters tomake the historical connections, they took i&xlx other books, litos"Daniel and the Revelation,* and used portions of them; and sometimes her mttx secretaries, and sometimes she heraelf, wovild prepa

4 *

a chapter that would fill the gap.C. A. S H D L L : I would lifce to ask if Brother Preseott wishes to

be understood that his attitude is that wherever his ow n judgmentcomes in conflict .with any statement in the spirit of proprecy, hewill follow his judgment rather than the spirit of prophecy?


28/77

W . * . ?RE C O T T : N o , 1 d o n o t w a n t anybody t o g e t t h a t unders t a n d i n g . That i s t h e very understanding t h a t I d o n o t w a n t any-body t o g e t . - - ' _ - . . - , - : . ; . . . . . . . . . . - . . . . . . _ . : _ _ . : . .

C . A . S H U L L : then t h a t H a s an e x c e p t i o n a l case?from a y a t u d y ~ 0 fWhan T a a a d a i q > a y ' l a d t o t h a t , X did s o t pagada i t

t h e people an4 s a y , * H e r e 1 a mistake i a * 0 i a t ( J a n t r o ^ T S i r , * aad . 1y o u study t h e Bible y o u w i l l f i n d i t t o be s o . . I d i d n o t attackt h e s p i r i t of p r o p h e c y . M y attitude h a s b e e n t o a v o i d a n y t h i n g l i k eo p p o s i t i o n t o t h e g i f t i n t h i s c h u r c h b u t I avoid s u c h & m i s u s e ofi t as t o s e t aside t h e B i b l e . I d o n o t w a n t anybody t o t h i n k f o ra m o m e n t that 1 s e t up m y j u d g m e n t against t h e spirit of prophecy

A * G . D A N I E L L S : L e t us remember t h a t , b r e t h r e n , and . n o t s a y , aword t h a t w i l l m i s r e p r e s e n t B r o t h e r P r a s c o t t .

B ; L . H O U S E : Did S i s t e r W h i t e herself w r i t e that s t a t a e n e t t h a tt h e t e r m Babylon oould n o t apply t o t h e C a t h o l i c C h u r c h , or w as t h a tc o p i e d from s o m e other a u t h o r ?

W . W . P R E S O O T T : T h a t w a s i n t h e w r i t t e n s t a t e m e n t .nineB . L . R O U S E : H a s s h e e v e r changed any of t b e v o l u m e s o f t h eTestimonies?

W , W . P R E S G O T T : " G r e a t C o n t r o v e r s y " 1 i s t h e only book I know oft h a t h a s been r e v i s e d *

C . R . S O H E H S 0 8 : Hasn*t " E a r l y W r i t i n g s * been r e v i s e d ? I understand s o s e omissions h a v e been m a d e i n t h e l a t e r e d i t i o n s .

W , W . P H E S C O T T : Perhaps s o a e thing h a v e been left o u t , b u t Id o m t think the writing i t s e l f h a s been r e v i s e d .

A . G . J 3 A S I E L L S : T o u K n o w t h e r e i e a s t a t e m e n t t h a t t h e popec h a n g e d t h e S a b b a t h , and a n o t h e r o n e , t h a t t h e papacy w a s a b o l i s h e d .W h a t d o y o u d o with those?


29/77

" 3 9 ~ ' /'. ' izssB i L * H O U S E * . There is no trouble with that. ; . 'A. G r , DANIEL L S; lay not? T he pope did not change the Sabbath?HL H O U S E : Bu t - the- pope stands tax theLpapaqy, ; _ _ . ..^A * G . BAHIELLS: There are people that Just believe there w as a

certain-gapa-^hat^ohangad t.hfii Sabbath, be O E m B e of the


30/77

seating man's views, 1 hare had this thing to deal with for yearsand years, as you know, in every ministera 1 meeting; and I have beencalled, into__ collge. claase8 over jej&jjve.r._ agan,._ and have Jiad_ t.o: asaythings that those ministers and students never heard before aboutthis; and I have prayed for wisdom and for the Spirit of the Lordto .direct them and to give faith .and to cover u p those things thatw o u l d leave doubt. A nd I have never had It come back on m e thata careful, cautious statement made In the fear of Cod has upset ssingle person, itm ay have done It, but I* has never come back tom e. Y ou take our ministers: This brother [meaning Brother Waldorfj

, " - . : ! . -',-- x. . .knows how m u c h thi* w as bxougfc u p in our ministers* meetings over in... , * " -. - - ,J "*-.-- , - .. V---TT- -;- -, (J - _ - .Australia, and we dealt with it plainly. W a 4 * not try to pull the- -'-.---. .:---,- --: ---.-^..- - - - - ----.,- - -wool OTrer^people'a eyes, and I believe you will find the Australian, - > \f f ,f ipreaohera and churohes as firm believers in the Spirit of prophecy a a

in Sister White's call by the Lord as you will find any place on*,...- - - ithe faoe of the earth. Take N e w Zealand: I brought them up there,and I think it is well knovn that there is not a place in the worldwhere the people ataad truer to thi gift than they do there.

I do not believe it is necessary to dissemble a bit., but I dobelieve, brethren, that we have got to use wisdom that .God alone cangive u e in dealing with tUs until matters gradually work 1 over* fehave made a wonderful change in nineteen years, Brother Prescott.Fifteen years ago w e could not have tailed wfcat we are talking toretoday. It w o u l d not have been safe. -This matter has come alonggradually, and yet people are not-losing their confidence tnr-thegift. Last year w e sold 5,COO sets of the Testimonies, and theycost eight or nine dollars a set, In one year our brethren andsisters, under the influence of the General Conference, and the unio


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_ 3 1 _ ... 1257c o n f e r e n c e and lo o a l c o n f e r e n c e men and o u r preachers,under theiri n f l u e n c e , w i t h o u t any c o m p u l s i o n , our brethren c a m e along and s p e n t. f p x t y _ , o j f i _ f t J S r t h o u s a n d , d o l l a r s . f o _ r _ t h e T e s t i ^ n i e s . W h a t wo u l dy o u c o n s i d e r t h a t an i n d i c a t i o n o f ?

A , G . D A U I S L L 8 : Y s , c o n f i d e n c e , and a friendly attitude. T h yd i d a c t buy them a s c r i t i c s t o t e a r , t h e m , t o p i e c e s * - . W e , < m u s t c ej u d g e d by o u r f r u i t s . I w a n t t o t e l l y o u t h a t t h e c l e a r e r view w*g e t on t h e e x a c t f a c t s in t h e c a s e , t h e s t r o n g e r t h e position of o u rpeople w i l l b e i n t h e w h o l e . t h i n g , .

S o w , Brother B e n a o n , I s e e t h e whole l i n e r u n n i n g t h r o u g h t h e r et h a t y o u referred t o . W e c a n n o t c o r r e c t t h a t i n a d a y . We r o u s tBible ;use great judgment and caution. I hope youA teachers will be exceedingly oareful. I lias called u p here twice to speak tax&kx on thespirit of prophecy to the Bible and pastoral training classes, Tbeybrought up this question of history. I eiBply said, How, boys,Sister White never claimed to f c e a historian nor a corrector of history. S he used the-, beet she knaw. for the Batter she w aa writing on.I have never heard from a teacher that those boys buzzed around tbeatand said, "Brother Danieils does not believe Siter White's writingsare reliable." I believe the Lord wiii help us to take care ofthis if we will be careful and use good sense. I shink that is allI can say in this sort of aieousaion.

o O o


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4 - . ? ' ' PASTORAL T R A I B I H G

Friday, A ug . 1, 1919, 11:15.W . E. TiQTIELltt ffov Brother D an iella, about half of these teach

ers here hive aa part of their responsibility the preparation of-the othersanxious. . t a . _ . j ^ f c S 3 L . _ s s M e _ _ g e o d. :oc |unsel , . _ a n d sone _ p _ r in-

ciplss that would help them in their work. ....A. G . D A N I E L L S : I confess, brethren, that my min d is ao trou-[ verbal inspiration of the spirit of prophecbled over what w e have been dissuss ingA that I feel in very poor

shape to discuss pastoral training. Some of us have gone throughthe trouble, and have landed all right} but it is,a great pain toas to see ay brethren getting into this thing, because I know theanxiety that it will give them. Then I know, too, the danger thereis when we are trying Jto work our w ay through a labyrinth of getting off into these caverns that are all around us, or getting otherpeople into them. Brethren, do use good sense, do be cautious, anddo all this with the spirit of prayer and with confidence in Go d ,and X B & with a great desire to not hurt a single little one of God'sflook. I am sure that none of our General Conference sen w a n t asword to fight with in this thing; but we do wa n t to be true, and w ewa n t to tell these things as they are, and I believe the tord willbring us out. Ho * , .if I can dismiss that from my mind, I will saya few thinga about, this making of preachers.

I feel that a great responsibility, a great opportunity, is\given oui Bible teaftjiers and teachers of pastoral training classes,and it is for you teachers to really change or greatly improve theclass of preachers aaoTigus .

First of all, I think you should steadily impress upon the mindof prospective ministers and Bible workers a few things. O ne is hon


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esty, sincerity, to be true to their consciences, to their judgment,to their profession. There are a great many ways in which men m ayhold theories and live quite differently and do quite differently.That is not honesty, that is not sincerity. S o I believe that^youshould constantly iopress up on them that they must be very straiglnand sincere and live u p ^ to their profession.

Then I think you should impress upon their minds the importance - . i no f s t u d i o u e n e s e * b o t h i n their c o n t a c t with b o o k s and A xtl& their c o n

t a c t w i t h aen and women,to b e i n d u s t r i o u s , t o b e w o r k e r s . Th eys h o u l d b e i r e p r e s ? e d t h a t when t h e y l e a v e t h e s c h o o l , t h e y a r e 3 s t

fbeginning then to study and to work, and so lead them to feel that aathey go out they go to plunge into booka and into service and into alife of toil more severely than they nave ever had in the school.Jtra If they ever accomplish what they ought to, they m us t do that, anyou know it.

It will not be necessary for m e to go further into tliat rsattsrof studiousneas and the kind of booka they should read. O f courseyou do that. Y ou show them the foolishness of reading light literature and wasting their time on uaiaaportant books,, books of littlevalue, when we have so much of value..

Then I sxgmose you give them some idea of regularity, in theirhabits of study, working and living eoraefthat to a program. A grea:-deal of tisse is lost and effort wasted by lack of a program of regularity in the daily life. Y ou will give them instruction with reference to the value cf time, the "placing of value, upon hours and mln-utes, the importance of carrying .with them some good little book thathey c an get out quiokly and -use so as not to waste tiase waiting atstations, traveling on street cars and trains, or whenever there isan opportunity.


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-3- ,' V

. But above all* you .'ill impress won them the importance ofBible study and contact with the Bible as a toot that containsha a and regeneratingpower, that is power, that^axsxxsxBisii revolutionizing* influenceupon the mind and on the heart, Hake the Bible supreme, but havingother literature close at hand, so that they will net be wastingtheir time.

tMnk'That curdo along this- line, from ay. observation . Perhaps, it m ay be "becauseyoung aieu have had a pretty -stiff line of study, so that when theyfirst coe out they let up a tit. But I watch these young men atthe camp- meetings I attend, and I would not think of wasting m ytime -the -way I aoa thea w as ting; theirs. T do not on the caa i p -gTOuadtired as I am , and as m u c h work as I have to do, I do not thro* awaythe minutes and the hours that I see those young m en waste, Xks*I that -i-t la not entirely because of the strain they

have been under,- because I aee thai it passes over a num ber ofIf it is that,years, 3 M & It takes a long: tle to get rested frons the strain of theschool work. I Query whether they are-; getting the lesson and theinstruction they need as to the value of tirae and the need of deeperstudy.

These are general matters that you are all familiar rifeh, ofcourse , and everything I will have to say, you are familiar with;but no . I icant to touch upon another thing that is of less importance, but it is_ of importance, and it is of a conspicuous character,and that is the appearance, the manners, the deportment of the minister.

Tie life of the minister, aside from his sincerity, his piety,and his studlousness and his activity, should be studied. W e should


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cone.a little close? to the real life and manner and w ay of thepreacher. There is no question but what a minister*s vocation differs from all other vocations. A doctor's vocation and a minister*ewo r k are


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- 1262-5- , - ' - ;it hoiTtsr tss Khsn I hear a sinister usln^ thos-e expressions, itgrates on my ears, I aear another minister w ho preaches a seraonright through, aad does not use one of those oos/?on slazig expressions, and T ad/aire It. It haa a good influence on .the ai&d and onthe heart, aad t appreciate it very

T thin* uaat in the colleges w e .sJsoUJd teach' our boys not touse ' these""expresaToni7"auob as *goitt. O TM the top>* ili&t do you say t-O.tMs,* an.l

I think ?ra ougfbt to try to lift then to a higher t>lane*h*t_ .even in school . life., "beoaus.e they S . . T S . . pretty llabLe to use

those exprea-gioTQs ^hea they get into public vrark. I think the boysin the- pastoral training cl.-ias aitd the Bible classes should be verydeeply impressed to steer far assay from those expressions.

Then the dress of the sjiriisterjffiust be taken into account, Ihaye often naid in our^ffinisters* -meetings that T think there aretw o professiottil classes that ought to " b e imaoijlate in their dressand their personal appearaft ee, and that ia the doctor and the preacheand tfc dentistT he dootoT A oo luto direct personal contact itb hi3 p?tient% andit is perfectly clear -that those men ou*ht to study to " b e very clean,physically, and wear -eery clean linen, and their dress should bebe yowl crltioisa; but I think it is j-aat as true of ths sinister.He stands before the people, .and betttaen thea and the Lord aoi ofheaven. He reprea^nts his Lord. He is His ambassador, aa-i I believehe should study asatuess *nd practice it aa carefully aa possible,aot to be foppish, not to aiake it conspicuous; he does not need tonicelydo tliat, T think I heard professor Salisbury define it asA xa3 aaany on.e I ever heard, he should dress in a ^ay that -woul-i not eveacall atteation to his dreas. fhen people ^sould not thinV he i?asoverdressed or foppish, and thairaiads ^ould sever be called to


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slovenliness or bad appe&rance. If h e were dressed so that peoplenever thoug-fct of it, he would be rightly dressed.

For iasfcance, -taie Ms shoes: H a doe& not need to have shoesthat are trimmed, and the leather all out into fancy figures orer

aad-br-iht taa-~colo3r;-4mt-he certainlyD O C cosse onto the platform with

lag And ita out heels and in a slovenly appearance. He can gobetsvasu the tao. He can nave shoes that are not adorned, but hecan have theai polished and built u p at the -heels in good shape, sothat nobody will e^rer think about it.x But, brethren, our ministers do not all realize tfas need ofhaving their clothes properly made and properly adjusted. I w as at'a,, oaasp-meeting some time ago, and m as on the stand. A ministergot u p to read the hymn. ' H e loat looked to m e as though he had

~ - < ~ v tM -gone to some pavn-shop and got his coat* It oat*e just a littlebelo* his suspender buttons, and h* had worn the baok part of Ulsthe aeels olear off his eioea, and I do n&t believe they h&d s &rseen any blacilng, at least they didn't loofe like it; and he certainly mast have thrown hie trousers down at night, because therew as no appearance of atraightness. fhey bowed around to fit bentknees. He got u p there, to read the hyan on a Sunday afternoon. I/did not say anything. I just sat there and studied him and wonderedhee he came froia; and as I stepped looking, the minister next tome said, "A pretty tough proposition, Elder 1," I do not thinkSeventii-day Adveatist preachers should dress that way. T tMnV itis '*rng. I think it hurts our cause, tod yet, srhen they do it,* ? e m u s t lake some little account of it and try to correct it. Perhaps w e can not do that with older m e a, that are out and at it; butI can not understand ny aay ssan *ould do it* H e must be color blind


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or hav* something missing in sis mentality. I can not understandit, . - '

H ot long ago I saw a sinister on the platform with one trouserleg all of three inches snorter than the other, pulled up. i?hywould a asan do that? It seems to me hia e?86 ought to tell himabout such things,

"Then, again, as "to obabtawtTona : Some ministers present avery sorry appearance by the eota&instion of colors ,-v-a flaiRinff tie,a coat of one color and trousers of another, ani tan shoes, more

tfit for a menagerie than for a minister, our young m en ought to 'b etaught those things, T think.

I my be a littlebit weak, and aay not be able to eâsprehendthe chief things as 1 should, but really, I was pleased in readingsome tiaue ago the ordination sermon of & bishop. H e went throughthe list and told thenrhow they ought to keep the finger nailsclsaa, right in a public talk. , H dealt s?ith asaay other things,but T ms pleased that he dealt with the question of cleanliness.I oauld tell y&u auch that I observe to- a l V o w that w e hnv praaohersw ho do i iOt realize that at all. They are not cleanly, thev do notvalue the bath. T know it by the odor of their feet. I do not knowone ofwhether T ought to go . into these matters quite 9 0 closely, but, ourschools ha.3 turned out a preacher with whoa I was in a committeea s e sting. T he brethren noticed something, and they said, n ??hat isthis? There sttast be a dea-i fowl arotind here. W e cou l__a not siaksout where it could be. But after the coar.ittee iseetin^ t^?o or threeof the brethren "sent to one room, and when one brother took off hidshoes it âs " * r e r y apparent srhere the deal. fol waa, it w as in thatdfr* do r ins that tiaes snoes. ^^Î,rJMI gâfe^gg


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1265-8-Is abominable. I did not hardly have the grit to deal wita thiszian myself, tut I did get another aian to go and labor with him. AndT w as in a cosaittee srith him the other day, and really I scentedaroun.1 pretty closely and found a great improvement', [Laughter]"Tou--ast 'y ' talter"tft&t " a s " & feit of p~l&&aakxrtr~9v~but yea Tsncgr a ffiarrgoiiig-inW &.-nl^& parlor.-io--giv-e . it -Bible-reading. o._a_JH8pany__jaf .ladies, . .and carrying that small into-that xoora. It would^potl the wholething, it is not right; and so I believe that w e - should teach oiiyboys in the schools iaasaculate cleanliness and neatness in theirappearance, so that they will never give offense and never appearfoppish or like dudes in public. T on can do it. Y ou can x& holdthese tilings u p. and set them an example in their classes, and thenteach taoss what to do.

There is another important thing, and that is methods in public.I think a young man should study his attitude tfom the moment he--Talks out cf ifcsxitsai MJB tent in a carap-jaeetins or out of the littler'.-oc. IE . the church.^ to take hia place on the platform. He' shouldstudy just he?? to act. I read of a zsan w h o . weat'omea -to hear a greatpreacher in B e York , I think it w as in Brooklyn, and this man saidthat it paid him to make the entire trip Just to see this speakercose onto the piatfora, take his seat, announce his hyjans, an

ll 3 ,3 tuougii he had epent fife sinutea. fhen he came to the offer


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12S6ing, he said a imply, "The offering this morning is for foreignmissions, and the Lord will be pleased W ith liberality. 1 1 'W hen wecome to the offering, we elaborate on it, and talk to the people asthough they T V ere children and w e had to belabor them to give. Ithi&k w e c an make improvensents in our methods.

O f course we have d Zf ferenf ideas," no deribVjof'pulpitand I would not attempt to - do more than to lay down some general, 1 - .principles; but I think that when our ministers come from the roomt

t o w a l k a c r o s s t h e p l a t f o r m a n d k n e e l i n p r a y e r , a n d t a k e t h e i rs e a t s , a n d r e m a i n t h e r e d u r i n g t h e s e r v i c e , they a r e o n p u b l i c e x h i -* nbition. They are a spectacle to the audience, and they ought to beexceedingly careful not to do anything that will be offensive toihe- most refined, and especially not to do anything that will callthe attention of $oy Qfiti in the audience from the speaker and the

r ' - . '"' -~" **.the as that is being presented; H o w shall we do that? Here is onething that causes ae soiae trouble., and that Is getting to our placeson the platform. W e are different from other denominations. Theydo not parade a lot of preachers on their platforms. I have oftenwished that w e w o u l d settle down to call u p tw o or three m en at thenost, and let the rest sit down with the audience. X do not see abit of need of that whole line of chairs being filled every time aman is going to preach. Personally, when I ar : going to preachy Iw o u l d rather most of the other preachers w o u l d sit dosm. where Ican see them. .

0. M , S O B E H S O N ; They w ould get more oiSt of the sermon.A. G D A N I E L L S > : Yes , I think this is one of the 7 , - & y s in srhich

can rnake a change. In the Fall council we m ay take that u p and


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reoo amend that only three m en go onto, the platform, one to speak, , . - ' . ' -one to announce the hymns, and anotfcsr to pray. That is all w e needAS a rule* - . ; , - , - - - . - , " , -, ---'-."- ; - * - - : - - ' : - ; , - } - , : ;/-. .- - " -

C L, TATBOH: la it tlie beat form for tw o ministers on theplatform- to both 'kneel facing the sudlenoe> one- on; each- side^of "tbe -

A. G . DA2TIELLS: I think it is alright , to < S o that. I pft enstep right to the other side of the deeK and kneel there and enterheartily into the prayer, sympathetically. - ' , - ..-: ' - .

As to the question of getting onto the platform: I think thereis a w ay of doing that without embarrassaaant to the first san w ho~esoh . '.'.,: ' ,..-*.- / " - " , " "steps up* and that is by. set* feesplng dose step ith the one in :f * , - ' -front, in that w ay , by the tiae the first, m an reaches his chair, thelast man reaches, his. Suppose one or to lag "behind, aa they offeendb, and are just getting around the corner over there -fthen I get tomy place; then, what? I do not like the idea at all of turningaround with my back to the audience ana standing there Eotionless.I like to kneel at onoe and that-, wuld be possible if all keptclose together.

What shall we do if we have to >vait? some ministers make' m every nervous by lucking tip and domi the lir*e and ^answering around.Ix ase.r.3 to r o e the only thing to do is to stand still and not look u p and aoism the line.

Aftsr the prayer there is aa hour in ich men nay do a ^ greatmany foolish things, and there is only one law to fit the case,that is that fee shall ksep tab on Mmsslf and attend to himself.^fhat cari a sian do? Well, he oan whisper to tne 5ian nsxt to hid,wnicn is inexcusable, as a rale, and yet srhea I w as out attending


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camp-meetings tills last time I w as annoyed and ay mind w as takenfrosa the duties of the place more-than onoe by one or tw o personsespecially that w o u l d invariably try to get into an extended conversation with m e on the platform. 1 had to tell oner of ihem, *Lookhere, Brother, I will not visit on the platform, J want to hearthis sermon." I think it should be a very rare thing for a ministeto whisper to another on the platform, the hymn should be sel&otedand everything understood before going in.

There is another thing a man can do, and thdt is to yawn.. Y ouhave seen that. Teach your students they mast not yawn on the plat-fora. ' . - . . . ' . ' .

Another thing they c an do is a lot of head-scratch! tig. I haveseen the shoulder of a coat white with dxx dandruff froa scratchingthe hair on the platform while someone w as preaching. That is al-

",. * 't o g e t h e r o u t o f ^ p l & o e * ~ - :0 f c o u r s e only a f e w pick t h e i r t e e t h ; b u t s o m e a r e e v e n booris

e n o u g h t o d o t h a tI w o u l d n o t h o l d t o t h e i d e a t h a t m a n s h o u l d ' n a f e r . c r o s s hisl e g s , t h r o w o n e l e g o v e r t h e o t h e r . ? h a t w o u l d b e pretty s t r i c t .I h a v e w a t c h e d a g o o d d e a l , a n d I k n o w t h a t i s n d P f o l l o w e d i n t h ev e r y b e s t c i r c l e s . I t h i n k i t i s t h e r u l e t h a t a m a n m u s t s i t t h e r ew i t h h i s f e e t d o w n a n d n o t c r o s s t h e m . T h a t i s s e t d o w n a s g o o df o r m , , b i t i t i e n o i c a r r i e d o u t , a n d I d o n o t b e l i e v e i t i s necessart o i n s i s t o n t h a t . I d o n o t t f c i n k i t i s v e r y b a d , i f p r o p e r l y d o n e ;b u t t h e r e a r e t w o w a y s t o d o t h a t . O n e i s f o r a m a n t o p u t h i s .a n k l e u p o n h i s k n e e , and p u t a i a i s e l f i n a bad s h a p e o n t h e p l a t f o r m

NStudents should be taught to exercise great care ia their behaviour and to do-everything in auch a w ay that no offense will be

There are people who judge us altogether by our outward raan


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- i s - - . . / . - . , - - . - ^ 126Sf e s t a t i o n a . They h a v e n e v e r . c o n v e r s e d w i t h u s , , and t h e y h a v e neverb e e n i n o u r h o m e s . They k n o w n o t h i n g a b o u t us e x c e p t w h a t they s e ea s w e a p p e a r b e f o r e t h e m .

H e r e i s a p o i n t t h a t m e a n s s o m e t h i n g . A l l a r e s t a n d i n g b y"'_ " / n ' " ~ ~

their chairs, and one is to offer prayer. Shall he stand there andlet the song be completed, and everybody hesitate to know whether tbis" to b e " a scripture reading, or w f ieW er to stand" ntarhave prayeror kneel for prayer} T he counsel I give is that, before the laststanza of the hymn is completed, the one who is to offer prayersteps forward and stands by the desk, out from the rest; then everybody kno7/s w ho is to offer the prayer or give the scripture reading,just as soon as the last sound of the hymn is out, he should eithersay, " W e will have the scripture reading," or "B e seated,** or "Letus pray," Then the people k n - > * T?hat to d o, and are .not left inany degree of uncertainty. 1 have seen some people get down on\ ' - -tneir kness, and than have to get u p again. I have seen otherssit down, and then have to get u p again when the minister finallygot around to tell them to bow in prayer. All that can be avoidedby a little forethought. Those boys should be taught that whetherthey are to read the scripture lesson or offer prayer, they shouldbe at the desk and give the people the word at once so as to leaveno doubt in the minds of the people as to what is to C O O L S .next.

In telling the people that w e are going to pray, T have sometimes heard ministers say, *L e t usv all kneel reverently and look tothe Lord in prayer*" ihat is the use of all that verbiage? Ithink ;just tw o or three word s ar3 all that are necessary, W ith agood, olaar voice, say, "Lst -as pray." everybody kno-s that u s e aregoing to doit with reverence. And tneytray eitner kneel or sit,unless >;e w ish them to stand, ana then it c an b & stated,*Le t - u sremain standing while prayer is offered.''


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- i s - * . ' ' ; - . ; .Those seem Ilka very s m a l l matters; t u t you put t h em a l l to

gether from f i r s t t o l a s t , and they r e a lly make a great impression*on t h e public. . ,

As to announcing- the hyjsn, I -will 5ust speafc of wha t seems tom e to " b e the essential point of hymn announcing* Hany tlines, andwith aany hynns, the mere announca teu t of the number is all that isof value. "Let us unitelin singing," or "in praising God , " or "Letus sing N o. 550, and let it go at -that. or* if *& hymn' isespecially suited to the circumstances of tbe hour, it ss$xfeftx itis eminently proper to read that hyssn right through; hut read It,

s.

arid not sina it or mumble it, because there is beautiful expressionin many hyame. I like.both ways 4 B u t X do dislifee to hear a hymnread clear through that has nothing to do with the topic. They callit lining the hymn. * If they do .not d o that, they will say, *Te wilsing without further X32l iB .* And if they read the 'hymn, or line it,they do not get the proper expression. Y ou will be surprised ifyou iill listen, to m en reading that beautiful missionary hymn,"Froa Greenland's icy mountains." aad notice tjtg dlfferent w;iys ofreading it. T ne fact, is, I do not think we are te^ohing readingand hyaai reading in our aohools as w e ought [ V O I C E : That's rij?ht!3 surely w e are not when you hear boys just out of the schools tryto read these ^ell-known hymns that are so -beautiful in their expression, and hear them just ruin the whole thing by the inflection.and lack of inflection they put into -that, of course hyma readingis a great art and accomplishment, but it can be acquired by earnesteffort .

I n g e n e r a l , I t h i n k thore a r e two rays t o d e a l w i t h h y t a i s . On ei s t o announce the . n u u s b e r , v / i t h possibly t h e f i r s t - s t a n z a w e l l r e a d ,ana s a y nothing more about ^ e w i l l sing without further lining." l l


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you ax stop they will & x o w there ia no further lining, and you donot S & 3 . 1 to tell Thais tnnt . B u t do you know bo w common that is

' getting so b.e aaon us? I tt-3-cdly. remember an announcement in theI aave attended without that little appendage.

SOHv . . - I t e lL auw . Jla^_Jbi-jsiL.fi8a. :s^.ba3:n*_t_ it,from tU a d a y > 3 when the people did not nave hymn booifr?

A. a, DA3IIELLS: I do act- remember that itwas. A t least* IC, L, TAYLOR: I never lieard it till tne last ten jraars,1 ? . 7 ? P R E S C O I T : There is another plixaue that I hear in every

nesting tiat I 7isli w e could aioid, and uiiat is, * L e t us open tbeby ths use of suo)i and such a n^naa,'* or "Let ue begin tfeeof (Jo.d by f c i i e uae. of hjsaaa' So. ao-aad-so.* ^hy c a i iV t vie Bay

ua.eing pm H o, so-aca-so^ 1 * - ^ Anptner tiling that distresses --.-.v -wi.v ' -^ , ^ ia o see aoa^body sawing tbe air before a small audi-

leading t'ti singing, but simply sawijag .tne air. I wish7/e coul-l iivad that. -

? K, K I L C X > X : Y ou do not objeot to beating time properly?T. W . P R E S O O T T : Tee, I ao. W hy is it necessary for somebody

to get u p before a small company and wave nis aras?A. G . D An i E LLS : T he aia)J.ority of otber oiiurclies do not allow Itr, W . PEESCOTT: When you nave a large meeting of tw o or three

Thousand people, and ha?e a choir of a aundred or so members , I donot object to having a good- leaoer; but I do object to a person getting u p before a sffis&l cojrpanr of people and trying fo lead, it isreore like a oirauo, absolutely disgusting before a nice audience ofpeople,

1 ( f . KERN: If cur people that play tne instruments are proper/inet-racted, it ia not necessary. '


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-15-A. G . D A H I E L L S : They can lead with the instrument.: * v S. KERK: I never eav? the tims irrhen Professor Harass

playing ;7hieh it as n^seasaty'to liave & Isadsr'o-f nniaie.*. T. P E K S C Q f J : I would rathe? see a General Conference resolia

ticn passed absolutely forbidding .any lay,dor appearing before anyon, " Vrian"to 0 "onr~as ~e

A. G. D A I I i r L L S ; RoalU y, I. fcave been so tiled that' -I have beentniniiir that ^e ought to l&Ke General Goaference Co^.Trrittee actionaac ix jDizlaxi i i tHXiaKs on this question. I thinJ: ? * $ could take out ninetenths of oar stieK-w&ving and have just as good ai3io in gur churcfo

our ~en.t-aeetiag8, , \Y ou will uaderstand iaan in conducting a aejj&e of ministers 1

, v - ' s bs^in on the .great r s s y j or prptjlems, and at the end getat these minor antte?9v-'be cause they a re itiaor eoa^pared with a jsandevotiioa. and si-aoerity* and scholarship and all that, fesesiKss out 1tninK you wanted w v to point ont scaie things bere you coulg gorigat at them and woik X K > to the point of Instructing these boys.These are things that should, be kept before tfeeir asinds day after3ay r I would go through these thingo -Ri th thsw: I would have hyamanrjouncing* and I would have platform Banners. I would watch theftcloaeiy and see if ay teaching as really gripping them, and whethertfesy were falling into habits & ,a they shoul-l.

^. E. K F R N: I ??8.rit to f c n o w if, in admitting people into thecnurch or Sissiesing theas after a church ceaeffilt tee has consideredit, it is necessary to turn ths asorning serTics into a parliamentaryzeetins: and v;ait for a motion.

A. G . C A K I E L L S : K ot a oit.


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"' *. W , PRESCnTT* I have adopted th plan of speaking the nameof the individual w ho is to bs added or dropped, 'and then saying,"If tjioxe is no object ion, they are received aa izis?sl>ars of the

* or they are dropped. * as tne case aa-;r be. -- - - - -0.- : - ! , - J & H ? * " : - u;iat. is .tie suitable -Ifengtli. of time for a ssr\A . 0. rAX ' T E L l S : It depends oa the preacher,30 minutes forsome, and an hour ani & half for others. I suppose an tour is longenough, including tag songs, announcements, and sermon. But 3D jriin-vitea is plenty for some people, on some occasioES., Jtnd somstirr.espeople can sit an I J O U T and a half vfcan T a talt. on forei?rnrussions,--at least, they

Adjourned.


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: 1 2 7 4THE APPLICATION OF T H E PRIHCIPtES OF HISTORIC METHOD

TO OUR OWE TEACHING 1QRK- By ... , ....

P R O T . C . L . BEHSOHI have enjoyed very saich the talk that Brother Albertsworth

has Just" given us. I feel that it is well Tor tiirta ge~t togetheras teachers to consider this research work,the .iioportance of it,and hoi? it can be done. I have thought for a long time that theweakest place in our denomination^ if w e are attacked, is not inour biblical side,although S O B Q feel that that ia not as strongas it should be,hut I feel that if the world should attempt toattack us on our historical side, they sould riddle ua. W e w o u l dlook worse thafa some of those buildings over in Trance. I feelthat this is a subject -that merits attention. W e are training students for leadership in this denomination, and yst ho* oftan theexamples set before them are anything hut complimentary to scholar-snip. H o w often in sermons w e hear quotations read from newspaperswithout even the na&e of the newspaper, nor the contributor, nor the\' e d i t o r . e take i t f o r g r ant e d t h a t i t i s authentic.

I havs e v e n h e a r d s o m e speakers read from a w o r k , and w h e n .as k e d w h o wrote i t , r e ply t h a t i t i s an anoaymous w o r k , b u t ' t h a t aS e v e n t f i - d a y Adventist could n o t have phrased i t b e t t e r than i tr e a d s . , H o r murh i s i t worth?--Kothing.

I think t h a t a s w e a r e training our y o u n g men and women t o goo u t i r i t g Bible work and ministeiial s o r k , they should k n o w ho t ocarry o r * investigative w o r k . H e r e e are w i t h " our s p l e n d i d opportunities f o r t h e s * s i x weeks:.hoA many of u s a r e getting d o w n t ot h e Congressional L i br a r y and getting a t t b e original sources?


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. . - "'1375 '' *R

. I heard a professor in an outside university say that he hadattended a aeries of our lectures once, and he said, "I neverheard suoh a hodgepodge of history in my life,* and itmade my earsburn with shame. Bis conclusion w as that our entire message was onthe sairs basis as our historical .i^e.rp_retat_ion... _ Bu t is that the_,_ _ _basis upon ^hich our message rests? grass siiaply the historicalresearch? D o ire take the tradition of the fathers, or do w e getback to the sources? When yS u study the Bible* you nave the sources,haven't you? Those are the words, as near as w e can get them, considering the faulty translation, and this historical criticise li iswhat has placed in our hands the Bible. There is au abundance ofother, iaue material, but it w as placed aside because it oould notstand the test of external and internal criticism.

W e have been prone to say that this historical method belongsto higher criticism. Xfe w e willing to let them have it just because it aay be prostituted or used, in wrong lines?

C. V . S O R E W S O H : That term *higher criticieas* ia s u c h an obnoxious tersu

C. I*. B E S S O N i I will simply say this* n*be popular tera, Itbink, is a misconception. W e are prone to consider it as somethingthat is heterodox. I have talked with different ones, and that ie ttheir consensus of opinion*

C. M . S O R E S S O N : Some people thialc it is destructive; but it isa valuable sfcience that has made clear to M B our Bible.C. L . B S N S O H : W e are studying the sources in our Bible class

when - s f s base our study of the doctrines upon the word of God. Whenit conies to history, what ' a different field w e nave to "use* Y oucan see something of ,the difficulties frocr *hat Brothertold. us. Is it-possible for-a . s a n lilce -Redpath to exh:,vU&t the


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sources?Ho, a aan cannot do it,I feel that in our study of history, we should, as far -as w e

can, study the souress. W e can not do this to any great extent, and* " 'yet we can on certain periods, and I feel that we should do it, ,1feel that our students should demand it, that we ore it to ourselvesand to our denomination..

O u g h t we ot to make more use of our papers and testloonies andbiographies of jf lt txfceg the beginning of this movement . Recentlythere fail into m y hands a challenge to. this denomination on thequestion of the "shut door." This m an gave sufficient evidence toprove to most people-that Sister White did preach the shut door.T he only say that we can prove that the pioneers of this atonementdid not preach the shut door after 18 44 is to get back into ourpapers and paosphiets and other material for that time. Those are

>the sources from waicfc i>tm can prove or disprove these statementsthat are being put out. W e nay make assertions, but that does notprove it.

Again, take what was brought up here on the floor the other day,the darfc day. W e placed in the earlier editions of "Great Controversy" the statement that there were not any clouds in the sky.And then, because a newspaper article w as sent in, we flopped overand took another position. W en in the same town advanced differenttheories. Ihat rigbt have Seventh-day Adventlsts to go an-i changea work like'Oreat Controversy" oerely because some one newspapermakes certain assertions, when we have never exhausted the field?

There afeould be three classes of sources available for thatdaric day: O ne is the newspapers. But are *e willing to taVe thenewspapers to lay as reliable? I got a letter from HebrasVa whichindicates that the newspapers there gave the impression that it


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a l m o s t a s d a n g e r o u s here i n Washington during t h e r e c e n t r a c e - r i ' o t aa s i t w a s o v e r o n t h e M a r n e during t h e w a r . We have t h eand w e have t h e p a m p h l e t s . W e have t h e m e m o i r s , and p e r h a p s diariesw r i t t e n a t t h a t t i o s e . U n t i l w e , a e a p e o p l e , h a v e i n v e s t i g a t e dt h o s e d i f f e r e n t s o u r c e s , we a r e ~ n o t - I D : a - p o s t t i x m - l & e rabout, the dark day, . Bouid . it help, the consensus ojf .spirian on Jthsic ing of the north for one asan to get up here andxgivs an appraisement of what w as said here in this convention on that subject?

1 t * **W o u l d y o u w a n t t o b e s e t f o r t h i n his 1 ' i g h t T I think w e o w e i t t o o u r students t o g e t down t o c l o s e r e s e a r c h work o n t h i s .

H o w long has our headquarters. been located here, and h o w m u c hhave w e done in placing such asatter in the hands of otir teach-rs?I say, we have our general workers here, and ho w m u c h are we doingto place. in the. hands of our Bible and history teachers the sourcematerial that w e emphasize as m u c h as w e do?\

W . E , H O W E L k : Say I put t h a t s a m e qu a t i o n t h e e t h e r m y , H o*m u c h h a v e o u r B i b l e and history t e a c h e r s d o n e b y way o f gettingt h a t r s a t e r i a l l o c a t e d , and sending i t t o u a t o b e s e n t c u t to others

C , A . S K U L L : W h a t s o u r c e m a t e r i a l is a v a i l a b l e t o us teacherso u t away f r o m t h e b i g l i b r a r i e s ?

C . L . B E K S O S : There are s o u r c e s i n t h e C o n g r e s s i o n a l li br ar yt h a t , o u t s i d e of o n e o r t w o u n i v e r s i t i e s i n the c o u n t r y , d o n o te x i s t , w e m u s t r e c o g n i z e t h e f a c t t h a t t h e s e " b i b l i o g r a p h i e s havebean collected a t a g r e a t d e a l o f e x p e n s e , and y o u c a n s e e t h ef u t i l i t y o f o n e of o u r isolated s c h o o l s , w h e r e w e h a v e o n l y a f e wb o o k s , trying t o d o e x t e n s i v e w o r k along r e s e a r c h l i n e s . T h e firsty e a r I * e n t t o Union C o l l e g e , - ? f c a c S . | 7 f o r o u r library appropriat i o n . I t i s i m p o s s i b l e f o r o u r s c h o o l i s e n t o a o very m u s h work oft h i s K i n d u n t i l w e c o s e i n c o n t a c t w i t h t h e " s o u r c e s , I t h i n k there


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should be scarce studies used in our classes. There is an excellentcollection on Mediaeval Europe, on tbe French Revolution., and acollectlor* on English histcry and American history, where they giv

" '* .-f r o m t s n t o t w enty s o u r c e s v s h e r e y o u h a v e a number of w i t n e s s e s ,r - & . iand y o u c a n bring t a ^ s a o u t a a d d e t e r m i n e t h e e v i d e n c e i n a w a y "_. . _ _ , _ ^ _ __________________ ._ ._ _ , _ --_-____._ . . . _ _.. _ ^ _..__. _ _ . __

BiblicalConf1919 Aug1 b

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