“ BackToEden”

Paul Gautschi

*FULL TRANSCRIPT*

Hosted By Marjory Wildcraft www.TheGrowNetwork.com

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“ BackToEden”

Paul Gautschi

Marjory: HelloandwelcometotheHomeGrownFoodsSummit.Yes,mynameisMarjorieWildcraftandI'mthehost.ThissummitisbroughttoyoubytheGrowNetworkwhichisthepremiercommunityofpeoplewhoaregrowingourownfoodandmakingourownmedicine.Andthispresentationisherebypopulardemand.PaulGautschiistheforcebehindthemostwildlysuccessfulgardeningfilmeverproduced.Andsinceit'sreleaseBackToEdenhasbeenviewedonlineover50milliontimesin228countries.Andyou'veprobablyseenthefilm,I'mwillingtobetalmosteverybodyintheGrowNetworkhas.It'sfreeandit'sonlineandI'llshowyouhowtogettothatattheend.ButthefilmjustshowsPaul'slifelongjourney,howhewalkswithGodandhowtogetbacktoasimpler,moreproductive,organicgardeningmethod.

Paul'sfoodgrowingsystemandfilmhavebeenendorsedbytheNationalGardeningAssociation,theOrganicConsumer'sAssociation,DoctorMcCullough,Imeanthelistgoesonandon.AndinthisinterviewwhatIdidwasIcollected,it'saQandApresentation,andIcollectedyourquestions.WhatdoyouwanttoaskPaulabouttheBackToEdengardeningmethod.So,ifyou'vebeenactiveintheforumsI'vebeenengagingwithpeopletheregettingquestionsandthenofcourseattheendofeachsummitwedoasurveyandIreadeverysingleresponseorquestionnaire.IreadeverysingleresponsesoIknowwhatyou'reaskingandwhatyouwanttoknow.

So,wecollectedthesequestions.ImanagedtogetPaulonthelineandthisisareallygreatpresentation.So,ifyouwanttoknowsomeofthebehindthescenesabouttheBackToEdengardeningmethodandifyouwanttohearsomeofthetougherquestionsaboutthegardeningmethodansweredthisisthemanPaulhimself.Alright.So,thatbuttonontheright

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willtakeyoudirectlywhereyoucanwatchtheBackToEdenfilm.Ifyouhaven'tseenitalreadyIhighlyrecommenditandevenifyouhaveseenitit'sareallygoodonetoreviewfromtimetotime.Andofcourseit'sfree,it'sonlinecompletelyavailablethere.Andthen,supportingtheproducersofthatdocumentary,thatvideo.BasicallyifyoupickupacopyoftheDVDorsendthemadonationthatissurelysurelyappreciated.Butwhatafoundationalpiecethatbelongsinthegenreofthewholefoodgrowingmovementandwe'resohonoredtohavehadPaulhereasapartofthesummit.Andifyouwanthimbacknextyearletmeknowandletmeknowwhatyourquestionsareandwe'lldoanotherQandA.

Marjory: HelloandwelcometotheHomegrownFoodSummit.ThisisMarjoryWildcraftandourcommunityhassaidoverandoveragain,canyouinterviewPaulGautschi?Heisvery,veryfamousforastyleofgardeningcalledBacktoEden.

Avery,veryextraordinarymanandIthinkyou'regoingtoreallyenjoythisinterview.I'vegotPaulonthephonewithme,normallyIdobackgroundandawholebioandthatsortofthing.But,I'mgoingtoletPaulspeakforhimself.

Paul,welcometothecall.

Paul: Thankyou.

Marjory: Yeah.Mygoodness,it'samazing.IthinkIsawsomethingthatyourvideo,theBacktoEdengardeningfilmhashad50millionviews.Thatisjustincredible.IthoughtIhaddonewellwithahalfamillionviewsonmygardeningvideo.Youdefinitelymovedthatmagnitude,byanincredibleamount.

ForthepeoplethathavenoteverheardofyouwhichIwouldbesurprisedthat'smanypeople.CouldyoutellpeoplealittlebitaboutyourbackgroundstoryandhowyoucametotheBacktoEdenmethod?

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Paul: Sure.Well,IgrewupinLosAngeles,wheremyparentsgrewallofourfood.Whichwassonice,becauseyougrowupasakid.You'reneverhungry,gooutside,andgetalltheseawesomefruitandvegetablesyearroundbecausethereyoucangroweverythingyearround.Thatwasmylifestyle.

AsIbecameolderandgotmarried,andhadchildren.Irealized,Ican'tdothisanymoreinLosAngeles,becauseitchanged.So,Imovedto…inWashingtonheretofindaplacetogrowfoodformyfamily.

Weboughtfiveacresin.But,I'dencounteredarealchallengewhenIcamehere.Idrilledawellat213feet,gothalfagallonaminute,nowater.

Marjory: Yeah.

Paul: I'msaying,God,howcanIgoafewdayswithoutwater?Andhesays,"Comeouttothewoods,andI'llshowyou."Thatdaychangedmylife.Ittotallychangedmywholeperspectiveongrowingthings.I'mrealizingthateverythinginthewoodsistotallyselfmaintained,there'snoirrigation,there'snocroprotation,there'snofertilizer,there'snowatering,there'snoweeds.Everythingmaintainsitself.

Thatopenedmeuptothebeautyofnature.I'vebeenpracticingthatfor39yearshere.

Marjory: Iguess,oneofthebigcomponentsofyourstyleofyourstyleofmethodisjustgetting,ifIcouldsayitreallysimply,isjusttogetabunchofwoodchipsandjustlaythosewoodchipsontheground.Thenbegintoplantinthat.Wouldyousaythat?

Paul: Andeverythinggrowsinit.It'ssobeautiful.ThepHis7.0.I'mgrowingwasabinexttosage,whichistheoppositeinwaterrequirements,andthey'reboththriving.I'mgrowingblueberriesnexttolavender,whichistheoppositeofpHissueandthey'reallgrowing.It'sjust,I'mfindingthatnatureisperfect,anditdoesn'tneedanyhelp.

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It'ssopathetichowwetrytomesswithit.Andallwedoismessitup,becauseitdoesn'tneedanyhelp.Whenyouchangeit,youmessitup.

Marjory: Wehadoneofour...Actually,severalmemberswrotein.OnewasDave,Sarah,andStacy.Theyweresaying,askPaul,whatelsedoeshefeedthesoil?Arethereanyothernutrients,orminerals?Alotofpeopleputrockdust,orseaweed.Doyoudoanyofthosethingstoit?

Paul: No.BecauseI'mseeingthiscan'tbeimprovedon.ThethingthatI'mreallyobserving,thateveryyearmyproducegetsbiggerandsweeter,consistently.It'ssofun.Idon'tdoanything.Itjustkeepsimproving.

WhatIgetis,isthisthetrue...WhatIlikeaboutwoodchipsoverothermaterials,likeyoutalkaboutseaweedandmanuresordust.Isthatwoodchipshavefungi,andtheseothercomponentsdon't.Fungiissuchaincrediblelifeforcetoallofsoil.Ifsomeoneweretoaskyou,whereontheplanetisthemostfertilesoil?Everyonegoeswiththeforest,becausethat'swhereitis.It'sallmaintainedbywoodchips.

Basically,whatI'vedoneinmyyard,I'vecreatedtheforestfloorinmyyardandeverythinggrowswell.There'snoissuesbecausethere'snoneinnature.

Marjory: Yeah.Wouldyouhaveanyrecommendationsforpeopleforhowdeepthosewoodchipsneedtobe?IfIjustscatteredaninchworthorsomething,Idon'tthinkthat'sgoingtobeenough.

Paul: You'reright.Whereyouhaveestablishedplantsliketreesandshrubs,youcangoasdeepasyouwantbecauseyoudon'thavetoaccessthegroundtoplantseeds.Whereyou'replantingagarden,whereyouhavetoplantseedsinitiallybecausethewoodchipsaren'tbrokendown.Youhavetoaccessthesoiltoplanttheseedsin.

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Astheseedscomeupandyoumovethewoodchipsbackaroundtheplantstocoverthegroundandyou'regood.Inthegardenspace,fourinches,probablymax.Inanorchardwhereyouhaveestablishedplants,asdeepasyouwantbecauseit'slikeputtingmudinthebank.It'sgoingtosettle.But,youhavethisgreatinvestmentthat'sgoingtolastyouforalong,longtime.

Marjory: IfIcouldjustgetthelogisticsofthat.You'resaying,inyourgardenarea,let'ssayIhave100squarefootgarden,or200squarefootgarden.IwouldjustbasicallytakethegroundthatIhaveandaddfourinchesofwoodchipsontopofthat?

Paul: Yeah.

Marjory: Yeah.Okay.

Paul: Theidealtimeisfall,whenthecreatordoesitbecauseasitlaysthereitbeginstocompost.Andasitrainsandsnowsallwinter,[inaudible00:05:50]compostteaintothesoil,tobuildthesoilfornextspring'sgrowth.

Marjory: Right.That'snaturalcompost.

Paul: Whenyoustartlooking[crosstalk00:05:58]...Whenyoulookathownatureworks,it'ssoperfect.It'ssogenius.It'sawesome.It'ssoamazinghowwedon'tlookatthat.Wedoeverythingbackwardsandworkhardtofail.

Marjory: Ihearyou.Wouldyoudothat...Wouldyoupreparethegroundaheadoftime?IfeellikeifIdumpfourinchesontopofbunchofBermudagrass,IwouldhavereallygreatBermudagrass.

Paul: Youwould.Ifyouhavegrass,coverit.Youseeitaspaper,yougotoHomeDepotandgettheserollsofbrownpaper,aboutfourfoottall.Contractorsusetheminhouseswhenthey'retryingtocovercarpet,keepthedebrisoff.AndrolloutoveryourBermudagrass,putwoodchipsoverthat,thenwatchall

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thegrassdie,becomegoodfertilizer,andyou'llhaveanicegarden.

Marjory: Nice.Howdoesthisstyleofgardeningdifferfromthepermaculturetermofforestgardening?

Paul: Idon'tknowthatparticulartermorwhatitis.Ireallycan'tcompareit.I'msorry.

Marjory: Okay.Whenyouharvestyourcrops,sayforyourannuals.Orevenifyouhaveyourperennialsthattheleavesdrop.Doyoujustleavethecropresiduethereandletthatcompostdown?Whatdoyoudowiththat?

Like,yougrowyourtomatoesandthenyouharvestthetomatoesandthere'sthisplantstanding.Whatdoyoudowiththat?Wehavequiteafew[crosstalk00:07:20]-

Paul: LetmeexplainwhatIdoandwhy.Iwasraisedinafoodstrivenculture.Thatculture,everythinghasaplace.Everythingisinorder.Ihaveawholebunchofdebrisinmygarden,clutteringitup,itdoesn'tlookgood.

Itakeeverythingfrommygarden,takeittomychickenpen,wheremychickenseateverythingtheywant.Andtheyturnalltherestintobeautiful,gorgeouscompostthatIcanbringbackandputovermygardenthatlooksnice.It'snutrientdense,andreallypleasanttoworkin.

Marjory: Okay.Youhavealittlebitofacompostingsystemgoingonthere.

Paul: Yeah.Thechickensaremyfullmanufacturingplant.Theyeatallofmyyardwaste,includingalltheweeds.Givemebackwonderfuleggs,andtheyturnallthatbackintobeautifulcompost.

Marjory: Chickensaresoamazing.Andplusthey'reso-

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Paul: They'reawesome.

Marjory: They'relively,andvivacious,andfun,andtheyhavetheirwholethinggoingon.It'sjustarealdelighttohavechickensintheyard.

Paul: Yeah.Tome,it'ssuchanintegralparttomyhome.Icouldn'timaginelivingwithoutthem.

Marjory: We'vehadsomepeoplewholiveinthePacificNorthwest.Casey,andlet'ssee,wehaveanotherSara,andthenaTimothy.TheysaidinthePacificNorthwestwhereyouare,doyouhaveanyissueswithwoodchipcoverholdingontotoomuchwater?Youknow,there'splacesthere,orevenontheeastcoastIsuppose,orotherpartsofthewater,wherepeoplearegetting60inchesofrain.Isthatanissue?

Paul: Thisiswhat'ssoawesomeaboutit.Thisjustshowsthewisdomofthecreator.Justsevenmilesdowntheroadfromus,wehavethewholerainforestthatgets14feetofannualrainwater.

Marjory: Ohmygosh!

Paul: That'stherainfallitgets.IfyoulookattheBacktoEdenfield,andyou'llseethegirlswalkingthroughthatforest,thegroundundertheirfeetisnotsoggy,it'snotboggy,there'snostandingwater.

Here'sthegeniusaboutwoodchips.Woodchips,whenthere'stoomuchwater,bringtothesurface,andevaporateit.Andwhenthere'snotenough,theyretainit.Idon'tknowaboutyou,butIreallygetoffonthisgeniusdesigninnature.Woodchipshavenobrain,butwhenthere'snowatertheydisplaceit.Andwhenthere'snotenough,theyretainit.

I'mtellingyou,it'sawesome.

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Marjory: Itreallyis.Ihearyou.Ruthaskedthisquestion,anyadviceorknowledgeonissueswithwoodchipsattractinglotsofslugs?Istherethebestwaytodealwithslugsiftheybecomeanissue?

Paul: Slugsarenotproblemifyouhavehealthyfood.Aswellasanyotherinsects.Insectsandslugsonlyattackdry,unhealthy,food.Livefood,fullofwater,noinsectorslugwilltouch.

Whenslugsandbugsshowup,they'retellingyou,yourplantisnotwell.They'renottheproblem,they'rethewakeupcall.They'rethealarmclock.They'retryingtogetyourattention,yourplantisnotwell.Don'tbeconcernedwiththem.Justgetyourplantsingoodorder,they'llgosomewhereelse.

Marjory: That'ssuchatruthwe'veseenoverandoveragain,hereat..

Paul: Yeah.Natureissoperfect.Natureisperfect.Nothingismissing.Theinsectsaren'tpests,they'rethecreatorsofpolicepatrolthatmaintainhealthintheplants.Ifyouthinkaboutthewidthofthat,youseeifunhealthyplantscouldgo[inaudible00:10:35]andproduceseed,thatplantwilleventuallybecomeinstinct.Insectsaretakingoutalltheunhealthyplants,soonlyhealthyplantsproduceseed,andmaintainhealthyplants.Thedesignisgenius.

Andherewe'reoutkillinginsects,whenthat'sthemostcounterproductivethingyoucoulddo.

Marjory: Icompletelyagreewithyou.There'sawonderfulstoryofthisoneyoungcouplethatcreatedaninsectwarthinkingthatwasthebestwaytodealwithorganicproduction.Thentheyrealized,no.Actually,themainissueisinthesoil.It'snotgettingotherinsectstodoinsectwar.

Paul: Amen.

Marjory: So,absolutelytrue.

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Paul: It'llalwayscometo,whenyouhavenutrientdensesoil,therearenoissues.Everybodyishappy.Theinsectsarehappy,alltheplantsarehappy,andnooneisbotheringanyonebecausethere'splentyforeveryone.

Marjory: Now,youmentionedthefungi,mycelium.

Paul: Yeah.

Marjory: Isanothertermpeopleareusing.WehadsomequestionscominginfromDonovanandChris,sayingdoyouhaveanyexperiencewithadditionalinoculationordomostproperwoodchips,youknowchips,bark,twigs,andleafs,justtendtobringalongenoughtoestablishwhattheyneedwithoutadditional?Orhaveyouexperimentedwithaddingadditionalfungi,mycorrhizafungi,differentthingstoit.

Paul: Ihaven'tbecauseIobserveinnaturethateverythingisthere.Allofthatiswonderfulifyouwanttogototheextentsofdoingit.But,I'mfindingitmyplace,whereIhadasterileenvironment,wherenothingwasgrowing.Allmytreeswerediseased,hadalltheissues.

TodayIhavenoneofthem,andIknowwhatI'mtalkingabout.Igot30yearsofexperiencetodemonstratewhenyougetnutrientdensesoil,therearenoissues.Naturedoesitallbyitself.Itdoesn'tneedhelp.

Marjory: Whatwouldyourecommendforsomebodyjustgettingstartedtomaybeusesomeinoculatesfromsomeofthedifferentvariety[crosstalk00:12:34]-

Paul: Iftheywantto.But,you'regoingtofindoutreallyquicklythatitwasnotnecessary.

Marjory: Itwasinthereanyway.

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Paul: Natureisprettyamazinghowquicklyitworks.Ifyouwanttospeeditup,giveitmorewater,becausewaterincreasesthecomposingprocess.But,itreallyhappensquitequickly.

LikeIsay,everyyearmyproducegetsbiggerandsweeter.It'sjustsofun.

Marjory: Isn'tthatnice?Itisamazinghowmuchbetterittasteswhenyougrowitinnutrientdensesoil?

Paul: Youknowwhy?Thecreatorgaveyoutastebudsforareason.Iffoodtastesgood,itisgood.Ifitdoesn'ttastegood,it'snot.Youshouldn'teatenfoodthatdoesn'ttastegood.It'snotgoodforyou.

Marjory: Igetit.Thankyou.

Paul: Weweretaughtinschool,youcanusecondimentsandsugartomaskthispoortastingfood,andeatit.Whenyoushouldn't.

Marjory: Ruthwantedtogiveyouashoutout.Andshesaid,"Iwatchedthismoviefouryearsago.AnditchangedthewayIlookatgardening.Itevenchangedmylife."You'vegotravingfanshere,ravingfans.

WehadJohn,andactuallyseveralothers,writeinandsay,"Wouldthismethodbeabadideatosetupwithinahightunnelorothergreenhouse?"Shelivesvery,veryfarNorth.

Paul: No,theproblemwithgreenhousesare,youdon'tgetanynutrientsinyourfood.But,itwillworkinanyplaceyou'regrowingthings.Mywifehaspottedplantsthatshegrowsoutinthechickenpen,andshegetsthatsoiloutofthere.Theseplantsinthehousegocrazy,it'sjusttotallyawesomehowwellthey'redoingbecausethesoilisgood.

Basically,youarewhatyoueat.Whetheryou'reaplant,animal,orhumanbeing.Youknow?

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Marjory: Youthinkitwouldworkinagreenhouseorahightunnel.But-

Paul: It'llworkinanyenvironmentyou'regrowingthingsbecauseit'slife.Youhavealivingsoil.

Marjory: Yeah.That'sawholenotherchallengethatwe'reactuallylookingatforgreenhousesforpeoplethatwanttoextendseasonsorgrowlonger.But,it'sawholenothertrickyenvironment,actually,withthings.Becausesoilexpectsfreshairandsunlight,which….

Paul: Whenyoubringinthewoodchipsintoacompoststate,andallthosemicroorganismsandfungiareworking,it'llhappeninagreenhouse.Theidealthingwithgreenhousesthough,theideal,istotaketheroofoff.Becauselikegoingthroughglassorplastic,interruptsphotosynthesis,andyougetnonutrients.Ideally,ifyoucan,gettheroofoff,getdirectsunlight,getrain,andthenyou'regoingtohaveanawesomeenvironment.

Marjory: TeresaandAprilwroteinandasked,isthereanythingthatdoesn'tgrowwell,ordoesn'tdowellinhere?Arethereanyplantsorthingsthatyou'vefoundmightnotdowellinwoodchips?

Paul: WhatI'mdoingnow,becauseofmyGermanbackground,I'mdoingeverythingoppositeofwhattheytellmewithincrediblesuccess.WhatI'mseeingisthateverythingIwastoldwerelies.I,lastyear,plantedriceinmywoodchips.Andit'sfanningoutthererightnow,totallyfullgrown,headedup,doingbeautifully.Ineverwateredit.Itrained,anditcameup.

I'mdoingeverythingtheysayyoucan't,acrosstheboard.It'sallworking.I'mgettingthatnothinginnatureishard.There'snochallenges.LikeIsay,I'mgrowingwasabi.Thatonlygrowsinstandingwater,infullsun,infullshade.Igrowitinfullsun.Rightnexttoit,I'mgrowingsage.Idon'twatereitheroneofthemandthey'rethriving.

Marjory: Yeah.

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Paul: I'mseeingthatalloftheseissuesthattheytalkaboutaren'trealinnature.I'mgrowingpotatoes,undermyappletrees,intheandthey'rethriving.I'mgrowingasparagusinshadedareas.

I'mgrowingawoman'sherb,blackcohosh,it'ssupposedtogrowinfullshade.Ihaveitinfullsun,south,facingagainsttheface.It'sthebiggest[inaudible00:16:24]I'veeverseen.It'sjustsofunnothavinganyhangups.Dowhateveryouwant!

Marjory: Wow.We'vehadseveralfolksfromArizonawhowrotein,fromtheTuscan,andPhoenixarea.Then,ofcourse,wedohaveaninternationalcommunityat[inaudible00:16:43]very,veryaired,dryregions.Wheretheycan'tgetaholdofwoodchips.Imean,atreeinitselfavery,verypreciouscommodity.Whatadvicewouldyougiveforthem?

Paul: Growgroundcovers.Anyorganicmaterial.Woodchipsisthebest,butifyoucan'tgetthat,usestraw.Whateveryoucangrow,putback,becausethat'swhathappensinnature.Inprairiesandnature,grassland,there'snowoodchips.But,thegrassdieseverywinterandthatfeedsthegrass.Whereveryoulookinnature,treesornotrees,everythingisbeingsupportedbyitself.Plantgroundcovers.

Whateveryoucangrow,plantandputthatback.

Marjory: Basically,whatyou'readvocatingis,isyouseeinnature.AndIagreewithyou.But,I'mplayingabitoftheadvocatehere.Justreallygetmoreandmoreorganicmatterintothesoilisthefundamental.

Paul: Ofcourse.That'stheideal.Aboutdeserts,desertsareallmanmade.They'reallmanmade.They'refindinginAfricanow,isthey'rebringinganimalsbackonpasture.[inaudible00:17:56]arebeingrenewedbecausetheytooktheanimalsbecausethegrasshaddied.

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Ifyoudisruptnatureatanylevel,it'shuge,andithasconsequences.

Marjory: Yes.That'spartoftheworkofthegrowingoutwork,istohelpbegintoreestablishthisinbackyards.We'vehadquiteafewpeople,andespeciallyDavidTheGoodwastheonewhobroughtthisupthemost.Hewastryingtoaddalotmoreorganicmatter.

Hesaid,"Haveyouhadanyissueswithpersistent...Andyoumightnothavebecauseyouhaven'tnecessarilybeenaddingalotrecently.But,therearepersistentherbicides.There'sonaminopyralidinparticular,andI'mgoingtoaddacoupleofphotosinhere.Peoplemayrecognizewhathappenshere.Here'satomatoplant.Theleafsstarttocurl,andthestemsstarttotwist.Hereisasunflowerplantwiththesamedamage."

"Itbreaksdownreallyslowly,ornotatall.Eveninthedigestivesystemofcows,orinthecompostingprocess.Itstaysintheorganicmatterforalong,longtime.Evenconcentrationsaslowas,apparently,asonepartperbillionwillaffectsensitiveplants.IknowI'vemadethismistakebeforeaddingsomehayasamulchtoagarden.Andtheneverythingdying."

He'swonderingifyouhadanyexperiencewiththator-

Paul: That'swhyIlikewoodchipsbecausetreeshaven'tbeenmessedwith.Everythingelsehasbeeneffectedbyherbicides,fungicides,fertilizers,andtheyhaveissues.Thebeautyofwoodchipsisthey'reclean.Mywoodchipenvironmenthere,Ihaven'thadanyissuesofanythingatall.Ijustthinkit'sawesome.Itreallysetsyoufree.

Marjory: Howyouwouldrecommendforpeopletogetwoodchips?Whatwouldyousuggestisthebest[crosstalk00:19:54]-

Paul: Localfeedservices,orutilitycompaniesbecausethey'reclearingpowerlines.Andtreeservicesbecausethey're

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creatingwoodchipsallday.Theyusethatto...Payforplacestodumpthem.Theycanfindplacesthatarealwaysaccessibletheycandumpitthrough,assettothem.

I'vehadallthewoodchipsthatIwantfordecadesforfree.Ialways...Becausetheyjustaregladtohaveplacestodumpthem.

Marjory: Yeah.Well,thereyougo.Then,ofcourse,Isupposeifyouhave...Forexample,hereinTexaswewentthroughthisterribledrought.Weendedupwithalotofdeadtrees.Werentedamachine.Ifoundthatthebigtruckisthebetterwaytogo,ratherthanthelittlefivehorsepowerthings.

Paul: Nokidding.Youcanmovesomuchfaster,it'sself-feeding.Youknow,it'shilarious.I'manarboreous,I'vebeenplantingtreesfor49years.Idon'thaveachipper.Whichishilarious,becauseIcreatetonsofbrush.But,thecreatorsays,"Don'tgetone.They'retooexpensive,they'realotofmaintenancewhenyou'rerunning,andthey'reverynoisy.Andyou'rebreathingexhaust,whichisnothealthyforyou."

Ijusttakeallmyclippingstotheguywiththebigtowgrinder,whogrindsitupandsellsitbackintothecommunity.Andallthetreeservicesgivemealltheirchips.IgetallthechipsIwantforfree,andIhavenooverhead.It'sjustsocool.

Marjory: Well...Anothershoutout,thisoneisfromLinda.Shesaid,"TellPaulIsaid,'Helloandthankyou!'AndtellNick,hishouseguest,thatshesaidhellotoo."

Paul: Iwill.Nickmighthearyou.Nickiscool,he'sarealblessingtohave.

Marjory: Ruthwantedtosay,shehadthisscenario.Shesaid,"IliveintheblacklandprairieofTexas,whichhasblackfertileclay.Itreallyisafertileclay."But,shehascapitalforclay.I'vebeenusingtheBacktoEdenGardenforthreeyearsnow.We

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coveredourplotswithsixinchesoflocalchips,andaddcomposteachyear.

However,herclayisveryfertile,butit'sstillclay.Thechipsarekeepingthesoilverymoistandthatseemstobepreventingtheclayfromlooseningup.But,it'ssodense.Eventhoughit'sgettingalittlesofter,butit'sstilldense.

Shewaslikewhat...Shefeelsliketherootsarehavingahardtimebreathing,andpenetratingthesoil.Didyouhaveanyadviceforspeedingupthatprocess?

Paul: Thereasontheygotthehardclayisbecausesomeonetookthecoveroff.Nowhereinnaturedoyoufindcompactwithsoil.It'salwayswhentheytakethecoveroff.Nowshe'srepentingthat.Putacoverbackon,thatsoilbelowisgoingtochange.

Itwon'thappenimmediately.But,ifshe'snoticingit,it'sgettingsofter.Thatwillcontinue.I'vegotheavyclayandrockhere,it'sblueclay,whenIfirstcamehere,therewasn'ttwoinchesoftopsoil.NowIcangodowntomyelbow,withmyhand,andmoveuprocksbecausethisgroundisbreakingup.

I'mtellingherthisworks,itjusttakestime.Itbecamethatwaybecausesomeonetookthecoveroffforupfront.Ifyougoanywhereinnature,youhavenohard,compacted,ground.

Nowhereinnature.Itonlyhappenswhenyoutakethecoveroff,andthesoildies.Now,she'sbringinglifebacktothesoil,thatsoilovertimeisgoingtogetdeeperanddeeper,softerandsofter.Ittakestime.Itdoesn'thappenimmediately.

Marjory: Haveyouanyexperiencewithusingbio-drills?Whichis,sayforexample,daikonradishesthatspecializeindrillingdowndeepintohardcompactedclay,andopeningitup.Then,ofcourse,mostpeoplejustleavetheminthegroundtheretodecomposeandaddextraorganicmatter.Isthattechniquethatyou'veused,orhaveexperiencewith?

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Paul: Well,becauseIsawhowsimplethiswasupfront,Ijusttotallybackofffromdoinganytechniques,withanything.Eithermydaughter,she'sputagardenin,weplantedcarrots.Andtheywerejusttotallystumps.

Thenextyear,afterthewoodchips,theyweretotallygorgeous.Shecouldn'tbelievehowquicklythatchanged,andhowthegroundstartedgettingsoft,andthepearscouldpressthrough.Itwenttotallygreat.

JustbecauseI'msoconvincedthatnaturedoesitthebest,Ihadneverbeeninany...Hadanyreasontotryandhelpitout,ormakeitworkbetter.BecauseIthinkit'sbeyondme.IfItrytofixit,I'mgoingtomessitup.

Marjory: Yes.Ihearyou.WealsohadPaulwhowroteit,anotherPaul.Hesaid,"HowisthissimilartotheconceptofHugelkultur.HaveyouheardaboutHugelkultur?"

Paul: Yeah.Hugelkultur,thisisjusteasierbecauseyoudon'thavetohavestumpsandstufftomove.Ilikeorder,andeverythingniceandsmooth,andjusteasytowalkon.Andnottrippingoverstuff,andnotbelimitedtoacavityandatree.It'sjusteasierforme.

But,it'sallthesameprinciple.

Marjory: Justforthosewhoarelisteningin,thatdon'trealize,Hugelkulturisthetechniquewhereyoutake...Eitheryoudigapitandyouputitinthere,oryoustackituponthegroundjustabunchofwhatever,organicmatteryouhave.Usuallytreelogsandtwigs,andwoodchips,andleaves,andyoujustmakeabigpile.Thenyouplantinthat.It'sasimilarsortofphilosophy.Although,theytendtopileitup.Versusitsoundslikeallyour...WiththeBacktoEden,you'retakingthewoodchipsandspreadingthemoutinamoreuniformsurfacearea.

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Paul: Theproblemwithstuffpiledup,andraisedbeds,whenstuffisraised,itreallydriesoutquickly.Youhavetowatersomuchmore.

Marjory: Yeah.Iguessthisnextquestion,Ithinkwe'vegoneoveritagain.But,I'mgoingtoaskitagainforSarahandLisa,whowrotein.They'relike,"Really?Hedoesn'tirrigateatall?Really?"Therewasacoupleofquestionmarksafterthat.

Paul: Myorchardhasbeenherefor39yearsandit'sneverbeenwatered.We'vegonethroughseveredroughts.I'mjusttellingyou,itissoawesome.Wouldyoulookattheforestaroundme?Nooneisirrigatingit,anditgoesthroughdroughts,andtheysurvive.

Marjory: Yeah.Paul,doyouhaveany...Wealsohadacoupleofpeopleaskformaintenance.Howoftendoyoureplenishthewoodchips?Ofcourse,according,wedealtwithRuthtalkingaboutherquestion.She'sbeenatitforthreeyears,anditlookslikeshe'sgoingtoneedtogoatitforafewmoreyears.

Doesiteverreachapointwhereyoudon'tneedtokeepaddinganymore?

Paul: That'sthebeautyofthis.Thisistheheartofthecreator.WhatI'mfindingisovertime,youneedtouselessandlessbecauseyouhavethisamazingsoilalreadybuilt,majorbase.Ittakeslessmaintenancebecauseyouhaveafoundation.

Thebeauty,asyougetolderinlife,youcandolessandless.What'ssoniceaboutthisprincipleisthatasIgetolder,Idohigherproduction,anddolesswork.Itmakessense,andit'ssoright.We'reconverselyinthemodethatthisagriculture,this[inaudible00:26:59],thesefarmersarespendingmoreandmoreeachyeartoproducelessandless.It'ssobackwards.

Marjory: Ittrulyis.Mydefinitionofaretirementplan.

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Paul: Yeah,it'sawesome.Imean,myplace...Imean,it'sjustincredibleproduction.I'mnotdoinganything.Itjustdoesit.

Marjory: Beautiful.Whatwouldyousayisthethingyoulovegrowingthemostinyourgarden?

Paul: Youknowwhat,peopleaskme,what'syourfavorite?AndIsay,Ihavenone.BecauseassoonasIeatanotheroneit'sawholenotherrealmofdelicious.They'reallgood.Eachonehasnewqualities.

EachtimeIbitesomethingnew,it'sthebest.Itdoesn'tend.Itkeepsgettingbetter.There'sjustnotoptothis.

Marjory: That'sfantastic.

Paul: It'ssothenatureofthecreator.He'ssogood.Hemadeeverythingreallygoodforus.

Marjory: That'soneotherquestionIwasalmostdebatingofwhetherIshouldaskthisornot.But,DavidTheGoodsaid,"HaveyouevergottenanypushbackfromyouropenacknowledgmentofyourChristianity,andyourfaithinthecreator?Haveyoueverhadanypushbackfromthat?"

Paul: Well,Igetpushback.But,mysenseis,I'mnotashamedofthegospel.Ireallylovethecreator,he'sreallygood.You'recomingtomyproperty,I'mnotchargingyou.I'mgoingtotellyouthetruth.Icouldn'tcarelesswhatyourresponseis.Itdoesn'tmattertome.I'mjusttellingyouthetruth.

I'mnotgoingtochange.

Marjory: Ihearyou.Iabsolutelydo.Ithinkalmosteverybodygrowingfoodregardlessof...TheGrowNetworkisneutralonreligionandpolitics,anddiet.Ithinkeveryoneofus,youcan'thelpwhenyou'regrowingfoodtonotbeinaweoftheprocess.Andunderstandthatthere'ssuch-

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Paul: Istilldo.

Marjory: Yeah.There'ssuchathing.

Paul: Ifyou'repayingattention,it'ssoobvioushowgoodthecreatoris.

Marjory: AndDavidTheGoodalsowantedtoknowifyou'dreadhisbook,CompostEverything.Andifyouhadn't,hewantstosendyouacopy.

Paul: Iwouldlovetogethisbook.Ilovetoread.I'malwaysblessedbyreading.

Marjory: Iwillhavehimsendyouone.Iknowhe'llbedelighted.He-

Paul: Thankyou,David.I'msograteful,thankyou.

Marjory: Heisalsoahugefanofyours,he'sahugefan.Well,isthereanyfinalwordsyouwouldliketosay?Especially,wehavealotofnewbiegardenerswhoarealittlebitafraidtotakethatfirststep.

Paul: Well,fornewbiegardeners,letmeencourageyou,you'rewayaheadtoknowwhatwe'redoingbecausewehavetounlearnallthemistakes.You'rereallyfree.

Justenjoyit,justgooutthere,payattentiontowhatyousee.Talktothecreator,askhimwhathe'suptoandjustobserveandyou'regoingtohavefunbecauseitworks.

Marjory: Youknow,Ithinkthat'sitforme.Atthetime,Idon'ttakemycellphoneoutthere,andI'mjustwiththeearth,andtheair,andallthecreatures.Forme,thatisthemostprecioustimeduringtheday.

Paul: Yourealize,wewerecreatedforthis.Isourplaceinlife.We'resupposedtobeconnectedtotheearth,totheplants,it'sdesign,it'sintent.

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Marjory: Yeah.Yeah.Paul,thankyousomuch.Ivery,verymuchappreciateyourtime.Ifpeoplewanttowatchyourvideo,we'regoingtohavethatbuttonontherighttherewheretheycanclicktogoseethat.Iunderstandthatifpeoplejustwanttoseeit,it'sforfree,you'regivingitaway.

Paul: Anotherreallygoodforestontheinternet,onYouTubethere'saguywhodoes...TheletterL,thenumber2,survive.Hecomeshereandvideotapesmytourswhereyougetallkindsofquestionsandfeedbackfrompeople.Alotofpeoplegetalotoutofthose.

Marjory: Yeah.L2Survive,theYouTubechannel.That'sawesome.They'llgettoseeyouinperson,andansweringquestions.I'vebeen-

Paul: You'llgetalotofinteractionwithpeople.It'llreallygiveyouagreaterperspective.

Marjory: Mm-hmm(affirmative).Yep.Then,iftheyclickonthatbuttontotheright,we'llgetthemtowheretheycaneitherwatchthefreestreaming.Then,ofcoursetosupportthevideoproducersthatcreatedthatifyoubuythephysicalDVD,thatreallyhelpsthemoutalottoo.

Paul: Mm-hmm(affirmative).

Marjory: Well,thankyouagainPaul.ThisisMarjoryWildcraft,andyou'reattheHomegrownFoodSummit.WewillhavetohavePaulbackagainnextyear.Ifyouwanttoaddanyofyourquestionsorcommentsdownbelow,we'llmakesurethatwegetthatincludedinthenextinterviewwithPaul.Paul,thankyouagain.

So,downbelowthatbuttonwhichwillgetyoutotheBackToEdenfilm,downbelowthatisthepackagefortheentiresummit.Youcanpickupthispresentation,youcangetthatonewithDr.KafuliontheFutureofFoodandArtificialIntelligence,youcanpickuptheTenStrategiesforGrowingin

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ClimateChange,andyoucanpickupHowToGrowMedicinalHerbsandthenofcourse,GrowinginGreenhouse.Alloftheotherpresentationsthatwehaveyoucanpick'emupbyclickthatbuttondowntherebelow.AndofcourseyourpurchasereallydoeshelpsupporttheGrowNetworkandasyounoticedwedonothaveanyofthoseGoogleads,oranyofthoseFacebookads,oranything.Thisisausersupportedcommunity.Wedonothaveanyoutsideadvertising.So,yourpurchaseofthesummitreallydoesmakeabigdifferenceandI'mthankingyouforthatpurchaseinadvance.