AU 6290$30Interviewee:Interviewer:

Title:

Elsie Williamson (Mrs. E. R.) McWilliamsGordon Cotton; H. T. Holmes

An interview with Elsie Williamson (Mrs. E. R.)McWilliams, October 18, 1977 / interviewed by GordonCotton and H. T. Holmes

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An Interview with

Elsie Williamson, 'McWilliams

October 18, 1977

Interviewed by

Gordon Cottonh. t. Holmes

Mississippi Department of Archives and HistoryP. O. Box 571

Jackson, Mississippi 39205

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NOTICEThis matena. may beprotected by copy"O'"law I TItle' 7 U. S. Code ••

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••• and there was a house down around the corner down there. Their

second baby was born down there. The one that died when he was

about six months old. But Jimmy most of the time was out singing.

You know I really have never been around Jimmy to get to me enough

to know too much about him, about him personally you know. They were

married before I really knew him you know. And the times that I went

with him it was business. It was all business.

Well, didn't you try to teach him to read music?

I didn't try to teach him. I tried to show him a little bit. I

knew he wasn't going to let me try to teach him. No, he wouldn't

do that. But I would say, "You know Jimmy," I had to go with him

to keep him on the tune you know. He'd say, "Well, I can't get

the spirit of the song unless you go with me." Nobody else would

get it like he wanted it. That's why I had to go with him and

teach him the melody and things. And get them in the spirit that

I wrote them in you know. I'd say, "Jimmy if you look there you see

it goes up there you knoe that your voice is suppose to go up and

if you see it comes down you know it is suppose to come down." "Don't

show me no notes. I don't want to see your notes." You know he just

didn't want to see my notes. He'd say, "I just want you to sing it

for me and play it forme." And he wouldn't even look at the notes.

Once he heard it, he could do it then?

Oh yes, he could get it the first 'time. JUst like that, you know.

Now you had your start in music, when? NOTICEThis mater;'" ,...,~vbID

pratec ,rI9M!Well, now I'll tell you the truth, sister just made me Learngno tes , .('<1e~

She just made me. Almost tied me down and made me learn them. I didn't

want to because if I heard something I could go and play it just

like I heard it near abouts. I was way too little to touch the

pedals. I'd go to the organ in the churches you know

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else would pedal for me.while I'd play for the revivals and things

like that. You know that was fine that was easy. But she said, "Honey

if you heard it you can play it but there are so many songs that you

haven't heard and never will hear that you would enjoy if you

would learn the notes." She finished at the Conservatory of Music

in Corinth where they know the notes. And so she would try to

teach me and I would just worry her to death. I just wouldn't cooperate

at all.

You were an ornery child!

I was ornery. So I said, "Well, I've got to learn it. I can learn it

by myself." I said, "I'll learn the thing." If I made up my mind

to do anything I I'd do it. I said I learn the blessed old notes. And

so I started, consilldering that I was learning it by myself which I

didn't of course. I did all I could by myself and "then I say, "Well,

Sister, what does that mean." And she'd say, "Oh that means that and

this means this." You know so she would go through right quick and

showing me what every little thing was you know. So she really taught

me. But I considered that I learned it by myself, what I learned.

It just wasn't too much. I took two months from a lady one time

just so I could play in a contest. A contest that they had. A county

contest there. The and that was a difficult piece-------------------kind of. , 71 t,

.erial may b@

And where was this? -cted by copyrig.~ ~~n0 Aw (Title 17 U.S. Code~ , ., •

In Clark County, Poplarville, someplace oh it was Forrest. I wanted

to be in the contest which I was and which I didn't win because

I still played it some of ti lIke I wanted to play it. So I didn't

win but I had a good time playing it. And everybody said that they

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enj oyed mine and that it was pretty but that it just wasn't right.

You know it seemed to me to be all right. I didn't win the prize. But

any how I took two months from an accredited teacher because you

had to be a pupil of an accredited teacher to be able to enter the

contest you see.

Are you still the pianist for the Eastern Star?

Yes, yes, I'm still doing it.

I've heard you play though and you've still got a lot of music out of

the piano.

Well, I just hit the high places.

What was the first song that you ever wrote fro Jimmy? Do you recall?

Well, now the first song that I ever wrote, I think that the first

one that I ever wrote ••• I had that book lying here I was pasting

something and I thought that I had that lying here. But anyway the

first one that I ever was a railroad song because- but he never did

record it. I thought that I found the book. It was lying right out

here. Let's see if this is it. I believe it is. I've got my stuff

scattered in about a hundred different books around here but I found

this old book. This is an old book. The first one here that he

recorded of mine was the Sailor's Cteea because the music was so

easy in that one that he could - He had a real good friend here in (,I

Meridian , Ben Jackson that --------------------------------------------that was when my and I thought that-------------------------------------he might like this one. But I've done forgot the tune myself to it.

NOTICEthis material may bejRriected by COPYrightlaw (Tirle 17 tJ.$. c-...

It goes:MDA h Mississippi women I'd like to sing for

The story of Ben Jackson --------------------1"nKR"'-p ~\-

(Y)q,. Mc..0,t( l·0l.1M5

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Holmes: And this was the first one that you wrote for Jimmy?

Cotton: • But he didn't record it~

McWilliams: He didn't record this one because he couldn't get into the music

right or something and he had just in the meantime he had recorded

and that took the wind out of tnis one. So---------------------------he never did record it. The first one that he recorded was

And then he wrote me and told me to come up there and try to have

four songs ready. So he could go to New York and record. And I

got them ready and went up there~ with sister and mama. We got the

songs ready and went up to New York. On the way to New York he

bought him a new blue car. He had always wanted a blue Buick. So

he bought him a blue Buick. He just stopped and bought him a new

car, on faith you know. You really hadn't got inside the door enough

to really have the money you know. I don't know how much money that

he had but I don't think that he paid cash for it.- I think that he

got it on faith you know. We went onto New York. And instead of

resting in any second-'-class hotel because we didn't know how it

was going to come out or anything. We went to the f:irst class hotel

there that used to be called Mandera but they changed the name. He

died in that same hotel. Somebody brought me that little piece of

soap out of it. We used to stay there but they changed the name to

• But when we stayed there it was called the----------------------- ,

Mandera. But when we got to New York I think that I told you allr . onc.:

this and everybody knowsri t rcbut when we got up there whhS~t~ia'maYbeP otectedby COpyrightlaw (Title 1 ,mother we got a message that she was real s c .~od81.-------------------

and I can't remember if she died on tr.histrip. But:1 know that

he went to Chicago, told us to stay there and sent for Karen am. DAHthe baby to come up to New York until he got back. Well, she and

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Anita came and we did wnat we wanted to do. He told us to take

in New York for about a week nearly. So he finally called us and

told us to go on back to Washington that he couldn't come. I don't

know whether his mother had died or whether she was worse or what

it was but anyhow he just couldn't come back to New York then. By

the way the only picture that I had made with Jimmy and I wish

I had one because I never had a picture made with him in my life except

for a family group and you can't see that much in a group'but-I

never had a.picturemade with him and so many people would love

to have if they could now. Of icour se we never did. But I did pose

for one of the studios up therebut which one·- for a picture that he

was suppose to go and have pictures made and we did and I posed

for a picture with Jimmy but I never did see or hear of it again.

I don't know if it didn't turn out right or they d-idn't use it

or what but I didn't see it.

I WQuld like to see one of both of you.

I would like to have one. I sure would. If I knew what studio that

was I would see if they would look through their old negatives and

see if they were there. If it wasn't so long ago.

I was telling Hank about the song you wrote -"Me and My Old Guitar"

But you tell it better than I do so I want you to tell it.

Well, I'll tell you how that was. So he told us to go back to Washington

and try to get four more songs written. He said, "I know it's a big

order but try to get four more songs ready. And go to Camden,

NewJersy on a certain date and record thee.;l ngs ," And so MDAH~. rr ~e~i~\may b:;

well, Jimmy had talked about his Daddy anld things 'ari'fi of courseproteCl~ \ ."U ~ L.Q,Q~I\'law lTltHl , I • •

his mother had died when he was four years old and his Daddy was

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was really something sp~cial to him. He'd talk about his Daddy

and about the time that he lived in New Orleans for a while. You

know that he lived down there a little bit. I don't know but the

things that he talked about were kind of an inspiriiltion for "Daddy

and Home" and "Little Old Home Boy" and I don't remember which others

Those two I know were directly from his conversations. And so

when we got back we worked like mad and got the songs all ready.

We had our eight ready when we wer eosuppose to go record them hte

next morning. We carried them and the people were so glad that

we got them ready. They were just delighted that we got them ready.

They didn't think that we could but we did. _--'- '.cooked ci big'

at dLrme r.: to ceiliebrabey-ou know and called us Lnr.o vdInner , He was

so happy. He had his guitar in one hand and he grabbed Carrie with

the other hand and was dancing around the livingrGom and said, "Kid

if I just keep you and myoId guitar we're going to hit the stars.

You just watch me." He said, "I'm going to keep you and myoId

guitar and I'm going to hit the stars." So that'gave me the inspiration

right there to run back and write "Me and My Old Guitar". I went

back to the piano. I didn't eat that dinner. I might have eaten

a bite or two sometime during the night but I never did go in and

eat dinner you know. I went back to that piano and wrote "Me and,

My Old Guitar" So the next morning we recorded nine instead of eight.

Lord have Mercy I sure was in a hissy. My oldest daughter Patricia,

I knew that she was sick, Mama had written that Patricia was, s· ,C EThis malena' may be

But she said that everything is under control. Go ahead anW bycopyr; htI." 'T,,~'1u.&, c!..

through with what you are doing. Everything is under control. So

I was just all ready stomping, the floor to come home butn H

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want to get this over with if I could you know. So just before

we left Washington, we was all packed and in the car and we met

the postman out there. There was a letter from Mama said that

your daughter was real worse or what ever----------------------------it was. Said she was real bad and to corne horne regardless. I was

getting out of the car and said, "I have to get on the next train.

to Meridian." I said that I just can't go. Jimmy said, "Well, Honey

I'll wire them. The train that comes through Camden comes through

Washington so you can catch it at Camden just as easy as you can here."

Said, "Run and get your suitcase and we'll be ready to board the

train up there. I'll wire." So he did. He wired the folks. So when

we got to Camden before the train corne the wire carne back that

she had passed the crisis and was doing fine. To stay and get

through with my business but to corne as soon as I could

I\llDNOTICE

" ~ material may b\!rprotecte" 'W ~opvrigh~IIIW \ lltlel! U. S. CI'dej.

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