! ., ' . . ' " i ' .

An Interview with

All use8 of this marruscrfpt are oovered by

an agreement signed by Franklin ?. Nuftlng and

dated January 12, 1956, !his manuscript is thereby

made avazlable for reaearch purposes on and after

January 1, 1979. A l l literary ~ightai n the manwcript I

! are reserved t o the General Library of the Unioeraity

of CalLformia I t Berkeley. No part of the manuecript I

may be qnoted for publZcaLion except by written

pemlssion of tha Librarian of the University or d

t C& if'ornia at Berkeley.

BANCROFT LIBRARY

INTRODUCTION

When Franklin P .TNtting' s fathor, k n m throughoui; the

Fresno rais in industry as nVl.Ra,n founded the American Seedless

Raisin Conpaqy in the 1890'8 t o commercialize the then largely

unknown Thompson seedless raisin, Californiacs San Joaquin Valley

was soon to be one of the chief raisin-groxlng centers of the

wurld, but the rais in market was alnost completely uncontrolled

and-from the growers' stardpoint-di.s&strously chaotio.

Franklin P, Rutting purchased control of his father18

rais in busineas in 1911. Shortly after that time, the Calffornla

Associated Raisin Company, later known as the Sun ! k i d Raisin

Grarrrer8, waa organized.

In a taApe-recordedinterview conducted at tho University of

Czlifornia Library on M a y 17, June 15, and Jwre 25, 1955,

Franklin Pa Nutting has told of his connection with the

rai~inindustiqy ancl especially of his battle as an independent

packer againat the nonopolistic practices of the giant SwndEaid

A an?ll-boned man of W u m height, W. Butking rrt 79 waa

a t i U light of foot and quick-witted. He told his story freely

and well, although he was reluctant to dwell apon s m phases of

his relationship with his father. The Int-amr was struck by

E t r , Hutting's re l i sh for living, his apparent exiJogmsnt far ite

own sake of the cornpetition ~ M c h"fie8 enterpis@ iuplics. . . .. . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .

. . . . . . - , . . .

. . . . . . . . ::.:.::.. . . . . . . : . . . . is mm.ms'firstreferred . t o u s b y M - ~ - R . ~ e n e d i d # : < ,. . . . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . .~to ieesmof ~ g r i c n l t & a '~ c o ~ + - i i & ~niker~it~. . . . . . . . . .

:: - : 1 ..

:....at t h ~ . of ~d l i fora ia .~... . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . .

. .

. . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .

. .: . ,

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. . . . . .. . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. .

I ' BANCROFT LIBWARY . . Professor emeritus Henry F, Erdman and W1Ufan-i Xeeler, former

manager of the Sun &!aid Growera, gave us kWCl backg~ound

information,

I

A large collection of manuscripts and p=ss clippings has

been donated by Mr. Nutting to the Bancrof i%Ebrary. Our aim ma8

to supplement rather than t o duplicate infarm&ion t o be found in

th is material.

. . i 1

e

Oral History FVoject University of California Library 2 Augus-t 1955

BANCRDFT . LIBRARY

I@ career has brought me in touch w i t h at least three

types of farmers' cooperation i n California and, sa everyon.

knows, fanners' cooperation has been of tremendous b t e r e s t in

thi8 s t a t e so perhapa same lessons can be learned from npr

experience. First , my father i n 1894, being Pdthout capital

induced several friends t o put in sarae ca?ital, and together

they organized a. trursiness corporation fo r the purpose of grming,

padking, and sel l ing seedless raisins. Tkzat perhaps is one form

of cooperation among farmers, where a farm goes ahead and does

it himself Kith his frienda.

of qy contacts with f-st cooperation occurred when,

as president of the American Seedless Raisin Company, a competitor

of the'Sun Maid Raisin Assocfation, I: carried on extemive

negotiations with the Sun b i d regarding purchases of raisins,

and a lso when I served as chairslan and general counsel f o r a

group consisting of most of the r a i s in paakera except Califarnia

Packing Corporation In enforcing i n the courta the anti-trust

l a w against the Sun ! h i d . In fact, I have had continual contaut

w i t h the problems of arganizing the raisin industry since 11394.

A third type of farmers' cooperation with which I had

intimate contact was the reorganization of t h e Merced Irrigation

DistrictJ which reorganization I instigated and brought about i n

a period beginning about 13% and ending In the mirlAte thir t ies ,

resulting in a reduction of the Distr ict 's debt fram $17,500,000

to $9&OQ*000.

1 . . . . . .

1 1

1

RAISIFJ GROWllXi XN SAN JOAQUIN VALLEY 1

W.R. PJUITZhC AM) TRE BEGIh'IEIGS OF TIB ABEiUCAN SEEDLESS RAISIIJ CODANY

9

F.Pw IUTTIXUt EDUCATION Am EhTRY RJTOLAW EWC'?ICE 16

F.P. NUTTIFIG TAXXS OVER THE A L m I C A N SEDL8SS RAISIN COlPAhT, 1QU

19

ORONEX-PACKER RELATIONSHIPS IN TEE RAISIN INDUSTRY PRIoR TO 1912

Z.3,

THE SUrJ-&ID ORGAiL'IZATION~mE PACKERS, AM) TIB CIF.~t'ERSI U12-1918

32

SUN. R3OROAMWLTION UNDER ULRi IZRRITT, 1922 53

I i 1

FCOMOEIC DE-PR~SION;rPmm SELLS HIS ~INEPARDS, 1923~FIIIANCW DIi?FICULTICSI 1929

IRRIGATION) %ERCES IXF.IGATIONDISTRICT

P w I GRADUAL RETIRE3%YT FEZO",! RAISIN BUSIPW AFTW 1935

CALIFORNIA PRO-RATE BVLRgETZNO ACT

SOL% ADDITIO?ML BT(ERAP).XICAL DATA

nmm

Oilb t I understand, Ur. l!utthg, that Fresno i s now and has been for

several dacades Me chief raisin growlnp; center of the entire

wwlcl. Is that correct?

Nutting: Not quite, I t is the only raisin growing center in the United

States, although raisitls have been produced for ge&rationa

near Smpna; in Australia; a few in Chilej and mantPr , which I

are mill.y a raisin, in Greece. The aggregate tannage produced k

by Wrese other sources is more than what is produced in

California,

But the F'resno region, rrihich includes the San Joaquin

Q 1

Valley, produces przcticaX&

United States.

all of the raisins p;rmin the I

O i l b t , I'd like to get a picture of that San Joaqufn V a l l e y . Just I

how muld it look if one were making an airplane tri? over i t ?

Nutting8 On the East are the Sierra Nevada mountains rising 'a a height

of twelve. to f i f teen thousand feet, approximately. Sequoh

and Yoaemite Parks are in that range and Mt. Wtney is the

highest point Fn the United Stataa. Vast quantities 'of snow

are deposited on this ranee i n the winter and furnish

irrigation water for the swmr.

II

On t.4e West of the valley is the Coast Range, two to

three t o four thousand feet

from the ocean,

high, which separates the valley I East of the Sierras is

a thousand miles eastward.

BANCROFT LIBRARY

country facing on the Pacific Ocean. The Sierra Nevada Range

and the Coa.st Range uome together a t the south end o f the vd. lq

i n what are called the Tehachapi %ountaine,which run up tu

six thousand f e e t high. To the north of the San Joaquin Valley

is the %cramento Valley which is physically part of the Same

great valley which extends perhaps two hundred and fFfQ milea

north of ths junction of these 4zo valleys, ending mar Mt.

Sbasta where the two ranges of mountains again come together.

Gilbt So it 1s l i k e a bawl.

httingr Yes, a long bowl. Geologically, it was an N a n d sea, opening

into the Pacifiu tbrough the Oolden Gate and now drainsd by the

San Joaquh and Sacramento river8 flowing into the San Francisco

Gilbr

N t l t t i n g r

Oilbt

Nuttingt

Ollba

Xuttingr

.. :. , . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . '

. . . . . . . . . .

f i t is it about tJm 3an Joaquin Valley t h a t makea it

par t icu lar ly good f o r r a i s i n grarring?

The whole valley used to be a desert and has a mrg dry

climate and could produce.almost nothing without the water fran

the Sier ra Nevada Mountains. The raisin grapes thrive in a semi-

arAd oountrg Uke that of S q r n a , where they originated, and

with i r r iga t ion water f r o m t he muntaina to g& the grapee and

the extremely dry aeason during the harvest season, ths raisins

can be spread out on traye in the aun and cured by the sun

without any artificial curing. That gives the valley praat i -

o a l l y a unique situation.

BBhm dld they start ra ia ing grapes there4

The first raisin grapes were produced i n the Sacramento Valley

in about the 18GOca o r *70@scn a very emall eoale. Subse-

quently they were planted In the San Joaquin Valley and my o m

company, American Seedless R a e 2 8 Comparw, was the f i r s t to

p lan t the Thompaon seedlesa r a b i n in'any l a rge acreage and t o

comneraializs it. Prior to t h a t time, all the raisins were of

the Muatlat variety which have large seeds.

Were there other large indwtriee besides r a i s i n growing when

you first became acquainted with the San Joaquin Valley?

The other industr ies wem mining and lumber and some amall

marmfacturing, but pr incipal ly agrluultm even then, The

pare of the valley f loo r which w e r e near t he great r i v e r s tha*

flow from the S ier ra Nevada were under cult ivation, but most of . . . . . . . . . . . ' .

. . . . .

. .

t b dsoe&,,: ..hem several r i ve r s . the'hilDD.' ; . . : . ..

. . . .' . . . . .. . . - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .

. , , . :. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . / . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _. . . . . . .. ,. .. . . . .

. .em; . . . . . . . . . . . .

~ i p r ,. . the.S m ~ o a c p i n , t h s :. . . . . .

th Xaweah, 'md::' h ell&rced.. . . . . j ' .

. . . . . , : : . . . . . . . . .. . , .,:..-. . , .' .. . . . . . . . .

. .- . . . . . :* . . . ..-- ... . ,. . . . . . . . , . ~ .. . . . .. . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - . ... . . . :. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . ... . . . . . . . . . . : : . , . , . . . . . . .: . . . . . .. . . .. . . .. . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . , . . . . . .

. . . . . . . .. . . .. . , . . . . . . . .

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- -

- -

. Gilbr How important m a s r a i s i n growing In the 1890~8t o the econoqr

of this whole re-ion? Waa it the chief indmtxy o r jus t a minor one?

N u t t i n g 2 It waa a fairly large industry, accordlq t o tbe size of otbar

induatrles a t t h a t time, but it was not a dominant indu6tl.p as

it has become since. The ra i s in industry, o f auurae, ia only a

part of the grape industry.

The region produces vast quantit ies of aim grapes and

tab le grapes aa well ae r a i s i n grapee,and eoms varieties, as the

Thompson seedless, are used i n any of those three markatu.

Gilbt When you flrst went there i n the 18901s, did most of the raisin

growers have very large holdings o r were there maag small growers? I

Nutting2 !+lost of the holdings were emall. I think the American Seedless

Raisin Cwmparly holdings were amng tihe largest. Two )Yundzxd

and for ty acres was our oompargl 1s largeet single holding. T b r e

w e k a few l a rge r holdings, but moat of the vineyards were owmrd

and operated by small fanners who had come largely from Damnark

and the Northern hvopean countries and s e t t l e d there d th no

capital, worked hard, and had acquired one piece of property.

a t e tiam u n t i l they had, say, twentg, thirty, f o r e , eighv

o r even a hundred and s ix ty acres, a few of them.

?&own c o w generally employed farm help, the p o w

men and women from the aurmunding farina, a t its packing bow8 ,

a t Del h y , California. A f t e r for ty o r more years of

experience, I st= occasionally nxn across a former employee *o : 1I

used to war# a t our packing house o r a t our vineyerda and a o . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . haa bec-. n farmer' and a land o m s r and a splendid type of .. ~ . : - . ? :: ::::, . . . . . . : . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . , .. . . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ;:. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . -. . . . . . . . , . . . . .. . --:-:. . .. ~.. . .:.. ,, _ . < . .

: .. . . . . . 1 . .ine . . o a s & iAmerican, . ci t izen , . even thou&, . . . of.foreign.. ' -.. :.. . . . . . . ... .

. .' . . .

. , = , : . . : . . .I:-: ,

...... .,.

.- . . . . . : .. . . . . . .. . . . .. . ... .. .. . . -. :... .. . .. . . . . .. . : .- . -. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . -. . . . . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . .

. . . . \' . . . . . .. . _ .. . . . ..\. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .: . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .: .:., . . . . . . .. ~. . , .. .. . . .. .. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . ... .: .% . .. . . . . . . . . . . , .. . . . ,.. . . .. . . . .. , . . ::-. . .=,. , ' ..: : . . . . ... -. . . .., .. . . .. . . . . . ' j . L~ . .. . . . . .< . - _. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. :. .. . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . , . . . . ... ..-. ,. . . . . . . . . . -.. , . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : .1 - ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . - . . . . -. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . ~.{ . . . - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _ : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , , . .. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . : . . . . . . .) . . . . . : . . . . : . . . . . . . , _ : , . . . . . . . ( . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . : . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . .. . .. . . - . . . . . . - - - . . ... .

i

Oilb r Did t h q concentrate on grape growing rather than on

diversified farming?

Niittingr The tendency around Fresno Is t o concentrate on ra i s ins mare

than l a real ly good f o r the farmer, Raisin growing keep8 the

farmer busy only a part of tb year. A Bulletin of the

University of California sbws t h a t the raisin farmer i a

actually and necessarily busy about one th i rd of his time, .

whereas on peaches and some other products, he could use other

par ts of his t h e . So if he does not diversiFp, he lacks a

market f o r hie labor a good pa r t of the, t h 4nd 13 linited to , 1 I

one market for h i s product.

Gilb: Whsn do these periods of labor conre ordinar i ly in vineyard

culture?

Nutting r In the winter and opring, Dscenber, January, and Febmaq, is

the pmning which is a laborious occupation requiring ext ra

help on each vineyard, usually. Then, there is 'tha plowing 1

ani cultivation, f o r which only a feu men am needed, and

i r r iga t ion h o or three tine8 during the sumnar. Along ;bout

tho l a t t e r par t of Septem3er o r early Oatober is the harvest

seaeron, a t which time l a rge au?ounto of additional 131or are

cal led for. The grapes are hand-picked, placed on the trays, ! ! i

eposed t o tho sun fo r a b u t tao weeks, and then the raisin8

are gathered and plaaed in meatboxes i n which they are I

I transported to the packing honses of the paakera and cleaned,

sttmmed and packed. I

O i l b s If thsso farmers do not diverei*, what do they do with their

extra time?

B A N C R O f r LIBRARY

Nuttingt That i s one of the problem. The h e r in tha t region does

not diversiFy enough t o keep him busy, generally epeaking.

O f c o m e , the keeping of chickem and pigs and cows and the

growing of vegetables is one way that the averabe farmer in

other regions keeps busy as well as supplying his own family

w i t h something; to eat,and perhaps he can market these commoditiue.

I n the Fresno country, generally, there is too much specialiaa-

tion. A man may raise raisins and peaches, for instance, but

he does not give his time b these other minor projects.

For example, at one meetin2 of pract ical d i r t farmers

i n the Fresrmo country presided ovar by Professor Crochron

of the University of California, now doad, he called f o r a

shm of hands as t o haar many of the couple of hundred f m r s

preaeat had any cows. Only about twenty-five per oent held up

their hands. When he aaked how many had chickens, only about

f i fw per oent held up the i r hande, probably, he =marked, I

because the wife took care of the chiokens.

That ia a conspicuoue problem there.

Oilb: Md most of these growers own their awn land o r were of

them tenant farmere?

Nuttirig; There were ma.iy tenant farmars fn the e a r l i e r times, but they

usually had leases with options t o buy o r in some manner

succeeded i n purchaeing their places themselves.

Oilb r I haw t h a t in the early deqrs, in the 1970f8 and lMO'8,

the colony system was wed to bring nhole groups of people 1

Nuttingt I don% have too much personal knowledge o f that. That lroa

rather before mlp time. My time begins with 1893 when I w a s

only about seventeen years old and I f i r s t came to the valley,

Gilba What kind of labor did the growers use? Does pruning require

a highly specialized type of labor?

Nuttingr It ia ra ther him specialized. A man has to b taught how

to -prune. It isnct simply cutting off portions of the vfne.

Each cut has to be of the r ight pa r t of the oine so aa to Team,

f o r example, w i t h the Thompson seedless, spurs coming out of

th. earold old rood. Otheruise you. get m crop. , , , '

Oilb t Did they use the same labor fo r pruning as they did fo r piukinfs?

Nutting: There were m w fewer needed for pruning than fo r picking.

Anyone can do pick-, men, women, -and even children, so the

%WO p u p 8 W e r e quite different.

Gilba h 8 it cueto- to emplay people f o r pnming who l ived r ight

on the vbmyard?

Nutting: We us- had a feu l iving on our vineyard all the year

around, naybe )urlf a dozen, and then a t tb b\wy time during

hameeting, we'd have maybe tno o r three times tha t number

on that a& vineyard, the difference consieting of the

Mexicans fran Southern California.

I n the e a r u period, the 189018, them was some Chinese and

Japanese help, but the Japanese ueual3y came to o m their orm

places before very long, Timy were very eff ic ient help, Then

there were sme fM2ana and European6 and a good maq Mexican8

' . .: , .

Huttingr I think so. They were not here in tha numbers they were later.

They are very 'eff icient labor. They keep their place, for one

thing, and don't beoome landlords. Some of our help have

worked f o r ira everg year, coming from Southern California,

w h e r e they live, some two handred and f i f t y miles away,

aoming to help us harvest our crop0 f o r twen.ty t o twenty-

three years. YOU can arunt on them.'

Magr of the Mexicans had their am l i t t l e homea in

Southern California and uould get plenw of work there, but

regarded the t r i p into the valley and the working there as a

s o r t of vacation, j u s t as I and my fiimd8# UvlDg in Brkeley

when I was in high e c h o l , used to go off to Vaca Valley t o

work fo r the vacation. It was a combination o f pleaaure and

p ro f i t , rshiuh I think l a an important aspect.

Gilb t Was thia true of the Orientals also?

Xutting: No, i t ~ a sstrictly businevs with them, not a vacation.

They w e r e a migrant type. I don't know too much about them.

B A N C R O F T W .R. NOITIN0 AND THE BSGINNEiW OF THE ANERICAM SEEDLESS L I B K A ~ Y R A I S I N C W A H l [

Oflb t Let's t a l k about you f o r awhile and f ind out soxsmthing

about you. When were yau born?

RMtingt October 18, 1876, in Worcester, Maasachusetta. I lived in -

Masaaohusetts a b u t eeven years and then I cama t o Berkeley, .I

California, and lived here f o r thirtg-fire years.

GUbt Then you hevenlt l ived In the Fresm region?

~ t t i n g t No, I haven't l ived there. My position Frau about 1901 to

1911 was ae attorney for the Azerican Seedleas Raisin

Compeny, then known aa Ameriaan Vineyard Investment Compaqy.

&t me give you a brief autliae of our company. The

American Seedless Raisin Campany waa original ly organized

i n Boaton, Bbaesachwetts, by Mr . William R. Nutting, my

father, under the nam9 Boaton Raisin Compqy, That coay>argr

was euoceeded by the Amariaan Vineyard Company and tihat

compaqy waa suoaaeded by the American Vineyard Invaatment

Cumpsqy, which in turn was s u c c ~ d e dby the American Seedless

Rdain Company. . . I

Oilb t Did your father organise thie r a i e i n compaqy before he wtm 1 out here to California?

m t t i n g t No, ha went back there to organize it becawo ho had friends

in Maaaachusetta with capital . He got the ~ a p i t a l there, 'than I got soae land on easy terma and organized the busbeas in

tha% way. In fact , conpany had an off ice in Boaton, Ita

A s attorney of that co:npsuty and aa a member of the

Board of Directare of the corporatian for ten yearsa I

acquired a certain amount of knowledge of the business, such

as a director w o u l d acquire, and in 19U. the. company had

gotten into f ~ ~ c i a ldifffculties. The princfpal stock-

holders were a t odds, and all the principal stockholders

cane t o my office i n San Francisco and wanted me, aa an

attorney, t o do something about it. They think attorney8

can work miraclaa. - .

I n 1907 there had been a severe panic i n the United

States at large. A t just about that time q y father authorized

the purchase of raisins a t a cost of about one hundred

thousand dollars, which was a very large sum at t h a t time fa r

a business of that 8ize.

dollars on those goods.

There was a loss of fffv thousand

That was one of the factars of bad I

management which we had t o consider i n 1911, f a r the business

was i n danger of bankruptcy i f the bad management went on.

I n addition t o the error of buying too marrg goods, qy

. .. . . .

. . . . . .

father had also signed a contract in the compayfs nsmt fur

a piece of l a m l near Coachella on which he expected t o plant

a vineyard, th i s contract being signed without the consent

of the Board of ~ l r o c t & . - .

' limeover, at about this time, the eastern Board of

Directma, the eastern half of the Board which met in Boaton

when q y fa- waa there, had deprit-ed him af the management .

. bf t h e eastern 'deParbngnt of t h e business and that koct M '

. . . . . . .,: : , . .. . ..

II

II

. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . .

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.. ,: .. . ; not-communicated t o u s f i ~ a l i f b r n i afmalong t ~ m ethereafter. . . . . : "1 . . . . . . . . . . . , . . .

.. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . , ,. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...: :,, :. . . ; > . . . . . . . ... . . . . . .. . . . , . . . . .. . . . . . . : . .. . . . . .. . . .~ . . . . . . . . . . . : . ... ., . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . ., . . . : , . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .

1 . . . . . . . .

Gilbr Thie m a s a l l prior to the 1 9 U c r i e i s?

Nuttingt Yes, Some tine after the Panic of 1907 and two o r three

years pr ior to 19U, ~ e r t a i n parties in Boston named

Wasson and Sturgis had negotiated a loan on the cornpaw's

bonda i n Boston. That loan was coming due and npr father

was Mti f i ed tba t he must, p q the amount of samething liks

forty thousand dollars w i t h i n ten days,

It was up to me to get the nomy and I did, but I had

t o g e t it on my orra signature as a co-maker of the note, ao

t h a t I n 19U. when the c r i s i s came on I was l iab le for forty

thousand dollars on the note and had th i r teen thoasand doUars

i n ttre business, Duhring had seventeen thousand, and there

were o t b r creditars- total of t h i r t ~ - n i n e thousand ming,

p l w accrued intereat,

U b t Then you were one of the creditors,

Nutting: I was o m of the oreditors.

A t the time I arranged f o r th ia forty thousand doUar8,

there raa a distinct u n d e m i n g between me and q father

that all measures of any ia;partance were t o be taken up with

ma and approved by the Board of Directors before being

.~ a r r i e dout. In epite of that, he mads the contraot for thr

land a t Coaahella, cal l ing f o r t h i r t y thousand dollars, He

was absolutely w o n t r o l l a b l e and we all agreed t h a t aomebo$.

e l s e murt control the business. The creditora f e l t that

eonething m u s t be done a t once to a w e a m a t unfortunate

situation, In fact, two of qy father 's creditors rere ,

threatening imaediate attachment of his stack, ahiah would

have resulted in P;aking: control of the Lusiness may fma

him and the other creditors.

!here were forty or f i f t y stockholders, moat of them i a

the East. One or two of the pr incipal ones from the East, trro

f r o m fro8 Angeles, and one fronr Sonom a l l gathered in qy office

afLter rrome prevloua correspondence with niy father. Ae a

result of several weeke negotiations, a contraot was entered

into, giving rm an option for a feu degs to buy his etock and

all of the stock o f the other principal stockholden, on easy

terms. I had to ham easy term3 a t t h a t period. I &adbeen

in praat ice only ten o r eleven years.

I maumed the presidency of the cornpaw and the general

v g m e n t of it f m r q ~ r office in San Francisco, and the

headquarters were moved to San Francisco. While I tr ied my

best to get out of it, as the uorreapondence shows, I f e l t

obliged to go ahead because nobo* else i n the group was

able to take on the management.

Oilb: Wasn't your father the prinaipal stockholder prior to that

t h e ? .

Nutting: He was tha promoter of the enterprise, beginning in 1893,

and had a oertain amount of stock sa the promoting intereat

In the enterprise. Most of the aepital wos contd bu%d & .

theae other stockholderti.

Q i l ba' But he originated the company. . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .

. . . . . . . .. : . . .. . . . ~ t t f n g r ~ s ' o r i ~ t t i di t and carried it 'on fmm 1891. . . to l 9 l l without, :. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . .

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. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . ' pro f i t s ' - m t. . .to argrthin&.'without. . .'adequate aapital- '. : j:'

. . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . .... . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . : . ... . .

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. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . A , . . . . . . .

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I don't w a n t t o be too critical, but it had gotten into serious

financld. dFfPicultie8 and he and the other principal stock-

holdera joined i n certain contracts by h i c h they conveyed

their stock to

The amount of the p u r c w e price of h is stock was expressly

figured s9 as to leave him a mars above his debts, though the

value of the stock was hardly as high as that I agreed to peg.

I actually paid h h Md hi3 creditors under the terms of the

contract one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. There

were debts he waa ombg and which I paid as raquired by the

oontract amunting to $39,080 plus interest, the one hundred

and eighteen thwand including principal and interest.

This should have allowed Nm sixty thousand dollars above

the amounts going to 'he creditare, uhich skculd have been

ample t o keep h i m in funds far the r e s t of hi8 l i f e s but he

became interested i n another new projects a project for

planting dates and byping the land b e f a r , and I presume he

wed most of the money in that.

Gilbt . W i t was your fatlmrfs connection-w l t h the Pacific. Coast

Seeded Raiein Company? . .

Nuttingt None whatever. The Pacific Coast Seeded R a i s i n Company, I

understand, m e d the patenta on the seeding =chines designed

for seeding Ztuaca t .raisins. They were not concerned with

seedless raisins at all.

Gilb r And you concentrated all your attention on the Thompson

B A N C R O F T L I B HAKY

Gilb : So you didn t get h t o a w patent problems or arlything of

t ha t sort.. ..What had your father done in Massachueetta

before he caae out here? ahRt waa his vocation?

Nutting: He had organbed and promoted at least thme di f ferent

businesses p r i m t o the r a i s i n business that he undertook

hem. Oae =as an e lec t r i ca l brrsinees, when e1ectricit;y uae

in its b f b c y . Another was tke so-called Herdic business,

a horse-dram tax i cab rshich w h s a new idea with him a t that

time. - hother leas a publishing business horn In Califol.ilia.

All of those failed, sooner or later.

Gilbr He naa ahead of his tima with all these schemer.

Nutting : He waa vis+onaqr. He,was absolutely honest and honorable in

everg %3y, k t visionaxy. 3e was exactly that , a v i s i o m . '

They called h h tihat cormonly all omr the industrp,

A n atso lu te ly honest asd s t r a igh t fona id man, alwaya

sure t h a t his ventures asre going to pay and pay well. B u t

they a l l f a i l ed and not only cos t him everything he had eaeh

time but c o s t h%aassociates a grea t dea l besidee.

I don't like t o say these t-lings about my father, but

t h e w was ample reason i n the bad mnagmont whereb we had to

do smething and & it quiokly to eav- the interest of ever3f-

body concerned, including his rrm intereat .

Gilba Ew:Jdid@ru. f a t h e r come t o California? . . .

hbttingr , It nas after OIP of the failure. in BD~tonthat 11ve'nenkioned.

Callfornla ras the land o f plenty i n those dqys, according to.. . - . . . . . . . . . .~.. . -

. . . . . . . . . . . . ~ a s s a c ~ e t t sviers, m d it had ite a t t rac t ions .. . . . . . T W ~. . . . : . : . : . :.: : :. . . . . ; :

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., : . . . . .

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1.. . . . . t b u a n d .sea:of travell'htbsa.&ye. . . .: ..marv&ous'

. ,

e-t, ,_.<,:

:-! - .

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. . . . . . A , . . .

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..:. . . . . . . .. .. .. . :. I . .. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . : . . : . . . ...:. . . . . . ->

. , .-. . . . . . . . _ . . .' . . . . . .. .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ., . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . __:. . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... : . . , . .:. . . .. . . . . . . . ' .. . , :. . . . . . . ..... . ,. . . . . . . . ., . _. . . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . .. .. . :. . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . - . -. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... . , . .. . . . . . . . . . ?. . . : . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . L. . . . . . . . > . .? . . .. . . . . . . . -. . . . , . .-. . . . . : . . . . . . . ... . .. . .

. \ _ .-. . . .. . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... . : .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .,. . . . . . . . . . . . . ...: . . . . . . .. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . . 1. . . . .~. . : . . . . . ,. ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .

.: . , . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . - . - - . .. . . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . : . . .\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . : -.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ., I.'. . . . . . . . . . . . :.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .~ . . . . . .

Of course, he had a family . He had you, Rere there any

other children?

Yea, there were (hesitating), yes, two others a t that time,

Afterward there were six children altogether, It was quite an

attempt,

Ea came hem as the Pacifia Coast manager for a liPe

insurance didn't stay mlth that for long.

Then he went into the bwiness of publishing a certain ill=-

trated booklet on California, Evergone here waa booat, boost,

b o s t in those days, advertising California, That didntt pwJ

Then he diecovered this sgedlesa raisin, which was then

an insignificant matter coprmercblly; rm one knew it a t

The raisin was amall and didn @tlook like aqy thing very much

compared to the l a r g e and luscious Xuscat raisin which has a

beautiful flavor. Ha took that up f'rom f i n d i n g it growing in

the Sacramento V a l l e y and planted our early vineyard in the

San Joaquin Valley.

Gilb: The o r i g n a holdings of t b a=pa.qy were theso meyards

I] plus a large packing plant.

f i t t ing: Well, a small packing plant at that the.

NH Oilba You say he atarted in 1898. I know that there was a pania

I n that year and a very bad depression in the country aa a

whole, and among the rais in growera, Wasn't he being vary

oourageaue to undertake a coxnpw like t h n t a t that time?

Nutting: The '901s mere tough timss, but I don't remember 1898 as

b i n g especially bad. . -

F.P. EI'iiTTIN Gs EIXJCATION AND ENTRY INTO UPI PRACTICE

Oilb r Then you lived in Berkeley. Did you go to school in

hrkeley?

Nutting: I wen2 through the g r m r school, the high school and the

k v e r s i t y in Berkeley, (1894-1900 at the University. )

Dllb t I'd lib to ask yon ahout your ~ n i r e r k i t ~ Whatexperience.

did you study?

llutting: 1- major was in l a w and ecbnamica and natural science, I aas

a l i t t l e in doubt for a year or two as' to which I was going to

go into, mhetkr law or s c i e n t i f i c research.

Cilbt You must have been influenced by the LeConte brothers.

Nutting8 I was. I&. Joe LeConte, He waa my raost i n s p l ~ i n ginstructor.

He was a marvel. His photograph bas been up on ~qpoffice uaU

ever since.

Gilbr His admirers are leaon.

Nuttlngt He was known all over the world as a scientist aad philowher

too. They weren't specializing in those days l i k e they do

now. He had a wonderful influence over his students. H e was

approachakle. Every year therg oelebrated his birthday bg givirrg

him a cha i r or some other ebJect of that kind. The whole olasr

would gather in a room upstairs in South H a l l , as m a q as

possibly could get in, s i t t i n g on the floor and tbe railings

and evel.yffhere, celebrating hla birthday.

Gilb 1 h o p i t s a l l th i8 aonderfuL influence, you decided t o go into

l a w . .What made YOU Iraake that decisi0117 . - - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . ' - .. . . . . . .

Nutting* I had always phnned to,?JCI a lnnyer and I:declded, undar Uu. :. - '

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' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : , ..: . : : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . .... I..,. . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . : . . . . . . . . .. . . . . , .: . . . . . . .:.. . ' . ' . . . . . . . . . , . . . . .. . . -. - - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..L. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ' ' > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ' '.' I . . . . .. . . . .. : : . : . . . . . . . . - - . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . : . . . .. . . .. . . . - . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . . . . . ,

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bfluenoe of Theodore Roosevelt, the President, and hia

pronouncemsnta, to do aa he advised young men t o do, get in

ord mPake a reasonable fortune fo r one's f d y and then go

into publio service of some kind. I al- hoped t o go into

natural science eventualiy.

Oilb t After you had established yuut financial position?

Qilbt Then you passed the bar in 1901 and went i n b practice in . .

. . . . . .San Ficisao? . . . . . , . . . . . . .. . , . .

htting t yes. - . . . . , . . . . . . . , . .. : > ,

. , ,: I

. .

Gilba D i d you h m trouble starting a practise? . .

Nutting; Ne, I e c o n o ~ c a larrangements t o work i n the offices af I another fim, but I wasn't in thair employ. I saved expenses

that way, 1 had saved fo w hundred dollars by working while I

was here in college and that amount seemed bigger tban forty

ttiousaad' would nor.

O i l b r What kind of work?

Muttingt I mas in the Recordertr~Office sad my prinoipal frvrction there

was editing the uollege p~blicatio~.X had lard or tbree ulerks

uniier rss on t h a t Job. And also ootiag as aeoretary of the Study

List Camittee whiuh flunked students. T U waa all under

Mr. ~nttonla'direction. Tho University rrae g r o w rapidly

at that time and the staff ua8 inadequate and everything,

p r a c t i d y , i n tho way of bwinesa was handlee through the

Recorder's Offiue except f o r financial matters, which went . . .. . , . . . . . . .. .

. . ..

. . ~ m h . *~e&et,a.ry;,s office. The P&aidenttp office had . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . . . . < , ' . . . . . . . . . . .

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. . . . . , . .. . . : . ' no .at&.. $h.te&.... . : The,. . . . . .Rosident didnt. . . . .t even. . .have.a stenographer.. . .:: :' , , . . .. .:,. '

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. . . . . ~e rai practiodlly. . merely spr$e.~dingbfficer.ond g d e t m a n . . ' . . . . . . . . . .

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BANCROFT Ll8RARY

- I was acting under the Publiaationa Conwitbe (Professor

-Moses, chairman, whe uaa afterward Cfovernor-Oeneral of the

Philippines 1 and the Study Lists Conanittee under Professor

Alexi* Lmp, rho was one of the most popular a d able

professors r e ever had. I eaved enough t o start me out on lv

law practice.

Gilb t Did you have trouble get t ing cl ienta when you atasted in to

practice?

Nutting; Well, i t l a a more gradual process than one would like. \

Young lawyere in those degs were not given good aalar ies in

the b ig flrna as they w e nor. Zn fact , I underetand t ha t in

some cases the larger finas would require a premium from the

young man for the privilege of working in their office.

Oilb t Rhatkind of a l i e n t s did you take? Jus t anybody tha t came?

Iht t ingr A t first. Mom and more I special ized in c orporation lor,

but tha t i s a pre t ty broad term. My corporation practice,

Just as an example, included ona case ahere I represented a

eteamship compaqy and had to go down to tha oi ty prison t o

interview the oaptsin of one of the i r ships a h had brought

a woman up w i t h him fnriP Los Angeles and had smbeisaled the

ehipfrr funds and robbed them. So you see, corporations

pract ice baa a p re t ty kroad connotation. (laughter)

BANCROFTLI BRARY F.Po WITIN(I TAKES OVER I"M3 AKERICAFI SEE- RAISIN COldPAbBI(, 1 9 l l

Oilb t During this period you did have your f a t h e r b r a i s i n oompw

ae one of your alienta.

, ' .Nutting: Yesr . . , .

Qiibb: Md you have other raisin oampaniea o r packers? ' -

Nuttlnga Yea, although I had never l ived in Freano.

ailbr And then i n 19U. you did take opes the cor~pa~rp?'

Nuttingt In 19U these stockholders got together and there bad been

some Financial difficulties, Ey father was in a poeiliion where

he was golng t o be foreclosed out of everything he had and he

was getting to en age where he aouldntt afford t o go on organislng

new ventures with the doubtful results t h a t go with organizing

Oilb: Did-his great a c t i v i w in organiahg the Raisin Exchange have

awthing t o & with the fai lure of the m r i c a n Vineyard

h'uttingr No, that w a s a l l eu3sequent t o the time when I bought out hi8

in te res t and all theoe othor interests,

Oilbt That came the next year]( di&% it?

I ttingt Yea,

Oilb t Ilid he w a n t t o get r i d of hie interests so he could have more

tiae f o r the other work?

Nutting8 No, he didn't want to, but he yielded to neceaaity, He . .

B i m p l y couldnt tgo on. The f i r s t thing I had IDdo was to dig

up approximately f o r w thousand dollars f o r one of the banks . . '. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . .. .. .. . . .

. . . . d m n them t oke& th"d o o p q going, mt m a s quib. . . . 'a:.'. . . . : . 1:- ::,.: . . . . . . . . . . .

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BANCROFT LIBRARY

:. sus fir a young fallon, lQ father couldn!t do it.

Ea went into this Raisin Exchange a year o r two afteraard

for tha p m o s o of promoting a cooperative of the whole

industrg, Oae of the principal functiom o f that ezchanga was

to prepara a eret o f maps ahowing each ounera'nip of emrg

vineyard at that tims. I thlnk I msy have those naps yet.

Oilbt Was your father inspired by David h b i n of Sacramento?

Nutting; 1 don,+, thlnk thoy had aiythin~to do with each other, I

W . d c he got his in&kation locally f r o m Wylle O i f f f a , who

sfternard becaae president of the so-called cooperative, and

other men w h o rere interested i n helping tbo c a m u n i ~get

more for its prirdpd product, rais ins , by organizing a

cooperative,

Oilbt Anothar thing I wanted ta ask about your father, he was a

packer in his early years and yot he sgmpathized and worked

with tha grmers, Hbw do you explain that?

Nutting: Rell, beoause he had 3lanted tha early vineyards for our

cokpaqy and was primarily not a buslneasman, if f m a y put it

that nay, He uss a promter, an orl;anizer, I3 didn't like

the word proxaoter, but he was an organizer of buainessee

which didn't always succeed. (asido) In fact, they d i c l n t t

ever succeed.

R°FTLIBRARY

Gilbr

Nutting:

~ i r b t

Nuttingr

. .

Gllbr .

. . . .... . . . . .. - '

: . . I . .

(3ROC9ER-PACWZ RELATIONSIIIPS IN THE R A I S I N fNiNSTRT PRIOR TO 1912

In 1911 you mere plunged into t h i s whole raisin growing

situation, I'd like to diacuss some o f the background o f

the situation,

A s I understand it, these growers were specializing i n

grape growing and maw of them were absolutely dependent on

grapes. Pram ths period of about 1890 t o 1911 the marbt waa

violently fluctuating, wasn't it?

Yea,

What were the main causes for t h .fluctuation in the r a i s i n

market?

My msrn0l.p of the r a i s i n induatrg ia much be t t e r f o r later

periods than for that period, I presame the trouble was over-

pmduation, which is a r e l a t l n term. 'Phe acreage had been '

increasingzather ~ a p i d l y and raisin8 are not a XM~C~SS~W,but

o semi-1-. When times are hard, people get along without

them. The uampetlng a r t i c l es are such things as wheat flour.

A large pa r t o f the raisins go in to bread and into cakea and

such products, If wheat flour l a expensive and ra is ins

re la t ive ly low, large qasnt i t i s r of r a i s ins are put in the

dough by the bakers. If the contrary is the case, they hold

back on the ra i s ins and put in more flour, Such thing8 a8

strawberries and fLPfta generally, dried and fresh, compete

also, .

Then this would mean that i n the bad years, this whole reg ioq . . : . . . . .. . . ,::. . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

t h a t . . . . o n r a i s i n gra- . . be &ry. . badly . . . . . . . . , : i ... . . . . . . 'R'.',.econ?m.io.UJ .

. . . . . . . depended would' . . . . . .

. . , . . . . . . . . . . ...

. . . . . . . . . ..

. - . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . .~ . ~ . . ,. .

. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ' . . . . . _ , . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .depressed? .: . : . . . . 1. . . , , : . . . . .:. . . . . . . . . : .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . % . . . I

. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . :. .. . : . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :. . . . . . . . ..'

. . . .. . . . . . . . . , . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . .

. .

i .

Nutting; Yes, becauss Lhey have a speciality which is not a neoeasity

f o r aqrboctp. I've p-reached that doutrirwr t h e and @gain to

the ma-i-iagemcnt of +hsSunJYaid, cmn the moat capable of them,

and they couldn't understand that i f they controlled all the

raisina, they a t i l l couldn't exact aw prices they \oanbd. I

told them Just w h a t I thought about it. As the head of a

conwting ffrm and one of the very largeet growers, I waa in 8

position to talk turkey to tha nranagement very often- ( l augh)

Cetailed s t a t i s t i c s as to crops and prices are available from

the O h m i n i Foundation if desired.

Gilb; la, a l o t of thss growers, i n tho bitterness of thei r bad

years, used t o b lme the i r troubles on the packers. lbw m a n y

of theso growers t r ied to aeU. their own raisins direc t ly t o

the -East?

Nutting t ' iTArg few.

Gilb: War; it prsctical for t h to do eo? . . .

Nutting; PracticaQr norre of them had aqy connections with the wholeaale

grocers who are the'buyers. The raisin, coming f r o m the vine-

yard, ha8 t o be cleaned and etemmed and packed by maohinerg,

which is nore o r leas expenaim, Our packing plant, for instance,

used to emJoy-a maxkm of taro hundred people during the busy

season. The amrage fanner can't run a eet-up of that kind

aucaaesf'ully. mre is a good deal i n the manufacturn of eve0

a simple comodity l lke raisins which hkee experienae and

ability to loam. And it tabs capital, of course, tor the

Oilbr

Nutting;

Oilbt

Nuttingr

Oilbt

Nuttiagr

Gilbr

Nutting:

own and did auceeed f a i r l y well, t ha t did not a f fec t rip

amount of the t o t a l output,

Wlqy d i d a t t the gmwers s e l l their grapes t o the wine iadustzy

when the r a i s i n market happened t o be bad?

Maqy var ie t ies of grapes are used e i the r In the raisin market

or the wine, market o r the table grape market, C u a t a m r i l y ,

ram Thornpaon seedleas, for instance, do go into aqy one o t

these three markets.

Would t h a t man t h a t i f the r a i s i n market was bad, there might

be a good market fo r w i n e grapes?

%&rally when the r a i s i n market is bad, the other markets m'

alsa bad, It canes back to the state of bueineas In general

and t h e uonaumerst a t t i tude toward the par t icular product.

There wouldn't be the same set of consumers f o r osine as f o r

raisin8. Partly, but not altogether, no.

I

Do you think the paakera deliberately t r i e d to exploit tbe

growers?

The packers were the scapegoat. The r a i s i n growera were hami

up, they f e l t sore, they couldn't find narkets, the packera

naturally wouldn't buy from the growera unless they could sell

a t a profi t , and so the packer aarr the goat. He was blamed for

u l l tbe i l ls of the W s t q by the power individually and ky

the Sun-Maid and by i ts predeuesaor, the California Asaociatsd

Raiain Company, moat unjustly in many cases. ' There w e r e a . . . . . -. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . ... . . . . . . . . . . .. .

. .

. . . .

. . . ... ~ ~ ~ I Q U I U'of'something l i k e twenty-f ive p i c k ~ r s ,. . . . ~ a u ,o f tbr : .- ..

.1 ;:

.:.. . . .: . ' . . . .. . . . . " .. . .

. . . .

.~ . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . ' . . . . . .: . .- . .

. .

. : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . ~ n c k i n g~ o r p o r i t i o & ' . . . . . . . : very l&e ::concenu, lib the .~al~.fofornia. . . . . . .' , ; - .. . . . .

. . . . . . . . . .. ~. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. :. . . . . . . . . . ~. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - . - . . : . .

. . . . . . . . _ - . _ . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . , .

. .

I:. .. .

. . . . . . . . . . .. . . , . . . . .. .: . . . . . . . . .:. . . . . . . . . .. : . . . . . . . . . .. . .. .: . - . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . .. . ., , .. - .: . . . . . ..... . . . . . . I . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .. .. . . . . ..., . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Roeenberg Brothers and Company, arxi my uwn firm and others,

thaugh the first two -re very much larger than mine. Some

of them, of course, were prettq sharp, especially in the early

OWn C Q l l @ W , if 1 lU8y 8ay 80, d e d t 8qUaZ'ely with the

farmer and built up a reputation which gave ua a preference i n

the minds of m n y fsrmers because he waa given a square deal and

mule some money besides.

For msripyears I sa t in with the heads of the packing

fbi n their frequent conferences i n San Francisco regarding

industry problew aad I know from actual contact with them that

in general during the last twenty years or so particularly,

they -re sincerely regardful of the growers' interests as well

as of the i r awn, because the growers m e essential i n the

. . packing industq. The leaders among the packers realized that

a healthy grams' industry was absolutely necessary to thei r ..

QcOa success*

Gilbt mould this have been Crus i n the early dam?

Nuttingr I have no diract infarmation of the early days, but I think

there used to be some trickery practiced by some packers.

O i l b r So i n the e - ~ l ydays the grower came t o believe he muld Jut-

about have t o organize a cooperative and work a t some way to

get control of the si tuation ar he was at the mercy of the

price fluctuations and whatever terms the packers would hand .

out. louldntt yousay so, POA . : . ,".' . . 'thegrowerst paint of vim?:.. - ' . . . . . . . . ' ' . . . . ' . : . ::. . . .- . . . . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . :, ,. !.. ' l lut t ingr t l e w k a t the se rcyo f the f l u c t u a t i o n a i n p i ~ c &of the trade,,-..;...

. . .. . . . . . . . . . .. . - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ' . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . -. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . 'ths laices E a s m bvw p q . Tb. ,la . ':,. . ' .,. " ' : . . . simply . . . . . . .

.

.

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,. .

. ..

.. . . . , . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ' . . . . . . .. . . . . . .. . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..: , . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,. ... . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . - . . . . . .. . . . . .. . , . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . .

i

. . . . . . a go-between. All he wants is to make a l i t t l e prof i t on

whatever price he pays the growor. He'd rather p q a good

big price t o the grower if he can get it out of the goods.

This sounds a l i t t l e ideal is t ic , bu t it is true as to my

own campany and certain other packers, There were other

packers nrho d epended mre on a speuulative business, bnyirg

cheap and sel l lng high, rather than following the market and

lnaking a moderate p ro f i t on each ton sold as nly firm and some

others tried t o do.

0 iBt In trping to deal with the situation, the growers tried

several mathods or types of control. T h e y tried minimum price

agreements among each other and that didn't work, I smdered

t h a t didnt t work,

liuttingt Too -small a m b e r of growers, Those wouldntt succeed because

they were only a small element of a large market. I Qilbt Then they tr ied a aystun of pooling t h e i r rais ins,

Nuttingt T h a t aaa done, and again they were not very successful because

fundamentally raisim are not a necessity and the buyer fixer

thpz-ice. By t b buyer, I &an the wholesale grocers a l l

wer %he United S t a t e s , and the bakers, and the mnsumer,

Gilba Tihy didntt cooperative selling agencies such a8 the Farmers1

Union work out?

Nuttingt Wasn't that a pol i t i ca l organization rather than a s e l l i n g

organization?

Oilb8 It bad sane eelling aapecta to it. Kaa it your impression it

was primaray poli t loal?

Nuttingr Yes, and i t l a pretty Red too, a t the present t b , 1

Oilb a Was it Red a t that time?

kttingr I donrt know at tha-t tims. Possibly that m y be the name for

sa;le other organization, but there are several nat i~nalfara

organizations, including tha Farmers' Union and tho last ia the

Gilb t Than, another tschnique the growers wed was t o get together a

real cooperative and try ta control enough acreage so that it

would have some power.

M~ttingr Are you referring t o M. Thodore Kearney?

Oilbr Yes, he was one of the first of these, Could you tall ua

ooaething&out IJr. Kearney?

Nutting: That was a ' l i t t le before uy tks but I can 'giveyou a general

outline, Ue omled somethirig l i k e s i x thousand acres o f vine-

yaard and otier fann propor%y'neat of Fresno ahich is now lazgely

oo.naG by the University, I belie-^^, flo omsd and subdivided

that and then reposscosed a l a r g e part o f that. He was a

promtor and hsiners nan and l a n d m r , not a raisin grower

or a fumr primarily. Under his leariership, an organization

was forned i n 1898 t o market and se l l the entire product of the

industry so far as possible, The venturn was mt too successful.

Be was not a morchant and he b e w unpcpnlar, That18 about

all I oan remember about him,

You can find the details I n the Associated Grower, more

or less olarlted by the growers' extreme point of view and the

cooprative point of vim,

Gllbt I .think that that organization failed a d then they tried

another one In 190.1 vhich failed also, Then, in 1909 there

were several attempts to organim what they aalled "a

million dollar corporation. *

BAHCROFT FOIUA'PION OF THE CALIFORNIA ASSDCIA72D RAISIN COUPANX, 1912 LIBHAHY (In 1922, the name nae ohanged to Sun Wid Raisin ~roaers)

Oilbt What was the a t t i tude of the loea l bankera and th-e loca l

businessmen toward growera ' at tanpts t o form cooperatives?

Hutting: The California Associated R a b i n Company was really organized

izl 1912 by the bwinesamen of Fresno c i w , incluag the bankers.

ai lb t Because t h e i r in t e res t s were depsdent on the g i o w e r s ?

h t t k r g r To a uonsiderable extent. It was suppeed to be a farmers@

organization. Nineteen men held a13, the stock of the corpora-

tion, moat of then', as I remember it, businessmen o f Fresna.

They rotedthe stock, oontrolled the corporati&. Tbsn they bad

the oorporation enter into wntracta with the individual grower

wherety the corporation agreed t o buy and the grower agreed to

s e l l all of his crop of r a i s i la for a given period of years a t

whatever prioe the ~ o - a ~ l l e ~ l cooperative should rea l ize net out

of the goods. In other words, he w a s given a ae r t a in emall

advance onlp and had to aweit the f i n a l rosul te of each crop

year before a final settlement was made btween him and the

c o r ~ o r a t i o n for hi8 crop.

Qilbt What waa the arrangement uaUe the (voting trwt 13 What wos

the motivation behind tha t?

Nuttingt T h q had all o f the voting of the Sua Maid Corporatim I n tbe

hands of theee nineteen mea, who nere, I thlnk, members o f tb

board of direotore and they governed the thing absolutely,

with the advioe of growera l advisory o w i t t e e s t

Wac there aqy speoial reason f o r t h e i r keeping auoh t i g h t

. . . . . . . - . :

. . .

. .

-7' . .control? . . . . . : . . . . . . : : .. . . . . . . . . . . . . I . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . ... .

. . . . . . . , .. . ' . . " !. . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - : I

. . . . . . . I . . . . . . .

. . . .: . . . . . . ~ u t t l ~ r th... . . y . ' ., . . . .

. well, the normal busineas reaaons, plus a d o u b t a s to,, ; . . . . .

.

.

.

I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . : . . .

. . growerel cipaofg to\m.the .thing: as these men thought i t . : . . . . . . . . . . . ,. . .-

. . . . . . . i . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .;..

should be run*

Oilb t Of course, the growers had f a i l e d i n all their previous attmlfa

to organize and also of 6' re ren t tmere quite uneducated,

they?

Wutting; I was going to Bay tha t many of them were uneducated, many of

them were of foreign birth, and they did not have tbs advantage

that, say, the orange growers 1 organization has of a large

mixture of bankers and businesanen among the growers. The

growors uere h s t all pract ical d i r t fanners,

Q i l bt Then you could say it was a device to protect the grarrer

from hinself, i n aome respects. 1

I Nutting: Yea.

Oilb t There were lass which pemit ted ,formation of cooperatives, . ~ were there not, a t this time?

Nutting: Pas. There nas a certaln s t a tu te in the general corporations

l a w , under which business corporations Rere organized. A t tha t

tlme, I think there was a special cooperative corporation l a w ,

Oilb; I think there was one In 1895.

Nuttingr And the Sun k i d , a t first known au Cazornia Aaaoaiated Raiaia

Company, mas not organized d e r the cooperative llr#, but under I

the general caporation h,I believe it never uqa a cooperative

in law,

Oilbt libafore tha Capper-Vole tead 'law limited a cooperative ' a

dividends t o eight percent, the 8t.ockholdera could have had os I high a dtvidend a8 they cared t o vote f o r themselvse, Md they

oooperative issued some preferred stock and aold it t o baakera

and businessmen genera-, O f courae, these stockholders

obtained t h e i r dividends f o r a period from t h e corporation.

Otherwise, so f a r a s I know, them was no p r o f i t t o q of

the nineteen stockholders who held common stock and voted it,

I think the preferred s tock was iasued during the managership

of ~ s l p h ~llerritt.

Gilb r m c h was later an,

Wuttingt Yes.

Gilbr Yea, I wondered i f theae bankers and businassmen control l ing

the stdok used it to make a high p r o f i t o r whether they

passed the pro f i t s back to the growers?

Eiuttingt I think the corporation s e t t l e d with +,he powers on an honest

basis each year, givlng them t h e ne t returns on t h e i r crop8

after paying expenses on the copporation, including the

enomouely high expenses o f advertising, not w e l l directed in

acme respects.

Certain of the of f icera o f the corporation had t h e i r

crop6 graded up i n q u a l i v a t ce r t a in times which would result

i n t h e i r get t ing more f o r their crop than thq were really

e n t i t l e d to, I cannot say t h a t I aotually inspected the goods

but npr reporta from qy subordinates were very def in i t e a b n

Qhsg. had seen the goods. I krmrr t h a t the head of the SunW d

boasted a t one time that aqlr addit ional pr ice he obtained on

his crops through cooperation would be far mom than a s a l a r y ,

and he boasted about never having acuepted salary whatever. .

Justwhat this n e t resu l t swere , Ivmnot sure, but the .

reports were tha t his crops were graded up beyond t h a t they

B A N C R O F T LIBRARY should have been.

Oilbt I thought you said the stockholders were businesmen, mt

a;rowera.

Nuttingt Some wen, growers. They were not a l l grmers,

Oilbt Could you have bought stock In thia corporation if you had

wanted to?

Nutting t No,

Oilbr Nhy not?

ktt ingr These nineteen men h e l d the stock rud I understood tharg

would sell it t o nobody outside of the p u p .

Oilb: So that left you, as a packer, on the outaide?

Nuttingt Yes, along with the^ other packers.

BANCROFT THE SUX @%ID ORGAh?'UTIOM, THE P A C W , AND THE CtROYMS,LIBHARY 1912-1918

I1 Nuttingt The relaticns between Sun *id and the other packera was a

subject that I had better go Into now. I'll refer to the

capurntion as Sun wid, al-Uioughat that tine it was known

I1 as CaliZornia Associated Raiein Conpary,

As soon ae +hat cmparg naa organized, its manager,

Jams Madison, who had been a practical: paeker of sardines

and fruits and who waa a very able, hard-boiled manager,

s t a r t e d out to get the packers t o each sign fbur contracts,

One contract would d e the packer a packer for Sun ' ~ d

exclusively at cerbin priceo _per ton a d so forth. Another '

contract, pn rt of the same transaction, %oddconvey a lease for . .

ths packsrfs plant to the Sun idaid so +,hatSrt? )(aid aauld be

'&I ?ossession of the plant. Then t h ~ mwas a se l l ing contract,

t i constituting +he packer a selling agent for the cooperative,

mejt were all alike for all the packers exaep:ting qy

m n firm, and were si-ed !,y a large najority o f the packers,

nis was when the Srzn mid ha3 Just beer! erganizsd. It had

practical3y no capital except pronissory notes whioh the

. :. growers had gives,' or these nineteen men, for stock.'1

The contracts =ere such as would leave the Sun mid in

poseession of each plant and the crchandise of each packer,

and tho contracts xere clearl;7 i n violation of the Shorman

Act, without any question whatever, as the Sheman Act was

at that time. ..\: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . - .

. . . . . . .. . . . . . .

. . . . : .. . .

. .

. . . . . . . . . . .. .. G a b r o f course,, tb C l v t o n h c t hod not .be& pass& at that t h e . : . . . . . . . .j . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . .

. . . . . . . . ., . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . . - . . . . , :.

. . . .t . . . ......: . . : . ibttingi',.NO . . . .IW-.. o m o f tho f i r s t ti txixikecl i ~ : s i pone ,b f .the... . . : . .:I . , . . . .. . . . . . . I :.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .... . . . . . . , . . . . :, I . ....; . . . . . . . .

. . . . .

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. . . . .. . \

: . . . . .

. . . .

. . . .

. .

. . . . . . . . . t . . . . . .i

contracts, and I to ld Bdadison t h a t under no conditions whatever

would 1 sign such a contract, even i f I could get no goode f o r

q y buainees without it. Moanwhile, they had signed up the

growers so th& they clained cimw-two percent of a l l the

r a i s i n s produced in the United States, and we packers were

on the outside.

Excep+, that rn0s.t of the packers signed up with the Sun-bid.

Yee, I refused, kt most of them did sign. Most of them

operated under these aontracts and made a l i t t l e p r o f i t and got

along that way., These were five-year contracta.

#aaoring tha law as I did, I h e w that i n aase any question

arose between picker and Sun-Maid, with all those contracts

in force, the courts~nould leave the par t ies as thq were,

which would moq the Sun-Idaid ruuld be in possession of

eve i . r tUg otmed bg the packer In the way of plant and goods,

pending the result of the l i t i ga t ion , a ridiaulous situation.

l@ company got along tha t first year with very few goode.

Oilb 1.' You grew your own riaisins, didn tt you?

ht.ti ngt We had those. Of course, we bought from hundreds of other

groaer8,

Oilbt bout w b t perce@ did you groa yourseln

Nutting t Oh, maybe ten o r f i f t een perceht. ,

We got through that f i r a t year eomehow, I presunu, at a

1088. Thon I went b N ~ NYork and eraor the reporter fo r tho

t rade journal which iB i n use f o r all the induetrg and tipped

him off t h a t I was e;oing to Washington to t a l k to the A t t o r m y - .. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. ,

about the . raisin.mobopoly and that::... .

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General of the United ' ~ t a t s s . : :'::.:. ,'.' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ;

I would kiwi him the ~ o ~ t i o n ' w h e n . I got back i f h &. w o r n . ; !' . . , . . . . . .. .. . , . . : . . ;. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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keep my mum out of it, which lw agroed t o do, I did ta lk t o

the Attortmy-General about the matter, this high-handed '

violation of %hea?ti-monopoly law d 80 forth, Thia was In

1915, Then I nent hauk to New York and told the atow to the

reporter and of course, it Game right out and nent i n t o every

packer18 possession the very next day, that atwrceys for

certain packers were conferring w i t h t h e Att;orney43$neral about

the raiain monoFdy in violation of the Shaman law. l'hen I

went back to Freeno.

Before going &st, I had dram a proposed contract with

Madison which 1waa w i l l i n & to 8-0 Xt w a s entirely free

from aqy illezality, l e f t compaqy in poaseseion of i t e

plant and of its goods. Re'agreed to bqy from the Sun-Maid,

and-hada right to buy, fifteenhundred tons of Thmqaon

seedless raiaias eaoh year for f ive years plus tment;y percent

of all the mmaining Thumpeon seedless tihat they had, a t the

opening price named by the Sunaaid, subject to qy pasaing

upon the reasonableness of that price beforehand, I had

trrentpfour hours advance notice provided for.

In regard to t h e twenw-four houra admnce notice of the ..... . . .

opening price of Sun-ldaid, which under thi contract I was

entitled t o each year, W, gadison exacted a verbel promise

f rom me that I nould riot misuse that information by quoting

prices i n advance of the fonnal publication of the opening

price by Sun-?&id. T h i s agreement 1 lived up tn me t l c u l o u e ~ ., .' . . ~

. . . . - . . . .. .

O i p . me an example of how you could hanuae&",thie. . . .information. . . . . . . .. . : : ,. '.:;,.. :) . .

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. if you . h d bein do. 'hon~styo,m8e~f'~ . :....; . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ... . . . .. : : _ . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .

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Muttlngt With that advance information., I couJ.I? telegraphed

brokers all over the country to sell a t the opening price and then

had that advantage over all the other packers who were competing

for the business of those same brokers. I could have mde the

sales fi r e t and made the prof i ts on tlioae sales by having advance

notioe. Any packer would understand that.

After talking Kith this Journalist i n New York, I ran

across Jim W s o n on the s t ree t in Fresno. He was a hard-*

boiled Dane, as un8motional as anybody, but he was actually

trembling nh* he shook handa w i t h ms. (laughs). The resu l t

was that I had the contract signed by and r~rselPexactly

as I drew it and within twentpfour hours after my return from

Qilb: You were the o w packer w i t h such a contract. D i d they l ive

up %o it?

Nuttfng: Sure. I compelled then t o a t one stage.

Oilb t C a n yon tall us sanething more about J-a Madison?

WUtt3agr Mr. Madison was the manager for the Sun-Uid for only a year or

two, and thsn was succeeded by v i e Oiffen, who had been

President of the corporation from its beginning. According to

common report, M i s o n had raised some question aa t o Giffenfs

use of corporate fmde. T'hia, I have no persord knowledge of.

Gilb t Vho were soms of me other loaders of the Sun-Blaid Corparation?

Nuttingt Giffen and ld&dimnwere tha ones we came in contact with.

Gilbt Waantt pour father in on this?

Nuttingt He was a memberof the 'board, but he had no active parti i n the

I 'm not sure about that , A l l of that information would be

I found i n ths Associated Grower, I think.

Gilb: Were you and your father on the outa, he being on the Sun-

h i d side and you on the other? I

Nutting: He would have liked t o have gone on i n the management of our

cow-, but the other. stockholders said "No, there's got to

be a change," And they got nrt t o bring about the change by

assuming all . the risks and agreeing to hqy 6ut a l l of them,

father and all of them on exacbly the same terms. There

I was no expression of any hard feeling, and my contract with

him provided for a stated salary far him far a period of~ I

pears beaidas .the payment of a de~tainimp sum anl gave h i s

an coption t o repurchase h i s stock at any tin. within two yearss

at w h a t I had pa ic . fo r it, Henever offered t o rdFurchasei .andi n

fact &ined vas t ly more through q y payments t o his wder the

contract than he could possibly h a m realized If he had

repurc'nssed it.

Gilbr "Pobackbra& a little: I n order fa get the control they hads

the Sun-bid had t o have contracts with the growers.

Wtting: Yess thep had put over a large campaign with the powers in which

they obtained a very large percentage. A t o'm time they claimed

ninety-two percent of all tho raisfrre produced i n California,

which means ninety-two perwnt of all ~ o d u c e di n the United States,

Gilbt You mentioned that some of thei r methods in getting these

contracts were coeraive. Can you describe t h a t situation? .

. . . Nutting: 00% back j u s t a little, during their 'firstcampaignf & , : .: : . . - .. . . .

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signatures #ere M i n t u d a t i o n , tha t I' w.: : . :,': :: ,::':: . . . . . . . ,.: . . . . . . . . , ' -. . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . , : . . . . . . . . . .. . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . .: . . '. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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B A N C R O F T I LIBRARY

about, The public sentiment among the businessmen of F'resno a:&

4 the groups they could influence...all the growers wanted t o get

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1 Nuttfng: '

out of the f i x they were i n somehorn. They had been gaining

l i t t l e from t h e i r crops and they wanted help from somplace.

They were desperate.

So t h e S~~142s5.dwaa organized, part ly as the resu l t of

my father 's work fn th is preliminary mapping ami some publicity

t h a t cams about i n t h a t connection, In fact, he w a s one of the

mmbers of t h e board of directors of the Sun4ai.d for a few

yeare. So there was none of t h a t terrorism at that stage, aa I

remember. They did acquire t h e i r monopoly, but they were vory

weak financfally. They had no capi ta l except these promissory

notes. I think that a t t h a t time they issued some p r e f m e d

stock and got same of the banks t o take t h a t an3 pay for it.

So they were weak.

when I got back from t h a t t r i p t o Sliashinghn and New York,

Madison knew t h a t if I s ta r t ed any l i t iga t ion , they were not in

a posi t ion to fight, e i the r legal ly o r financially. And tha t

is the reason, I think, that I got the oontract, whioh rrae

absolutely fair i n every respect t o the S~n-~Xaid and t o myself . .

but f r e e from any i l l ega l i ty . The contract resulted in large

profits t o my f i r m and nas very profitable a l so t o Sun-mid.

When did this intimidation of growers begin?

They had campaigns every few yeare for more growers, There were

outaide growera which the Sun-%id complained about, so they

put on a campaign eve* feu yeam and duriiig some of those

aampaigns there was gross Intimidation. Such events a8 the

burning of a h m e , a t ray stack or 80, in one instance

chopping down eighteen acres of vines, all kinds o f threats,

One threat wao reported to me whem a grower was 1st out on a

bridge over a anal with a rope around hfs neck and yanked into

the water an3 then yanked & i 4 d events of that kiTld. me

evidence is on f o e with the Department of Jus t i ce in Washington

or with the F e d e d Trade Codss ion. I eventually instituted

proceodingq in 1918. I s ta r ted vith the Federal Trade Camnissian

and then went over to the Pepahent o f Justice.

G i l b : Wing this sane poriod, didn't you also t ~ jto g z t contrasts

w i t h the growors?

,Hutting: Yea, we did,

Gilbr Did you have trouble getting cor.tracts?

lhttingt We certainly did . A t an early p e r i o d aftcr the S w - h i d was

crganized, I piib1i3hed fPU page advertisemnts in the local

papera. The principal paper, tha Fresno Republican it waa

then, now the Fresno -3b e refused to take any a& although

thfs was oinply an offer to p;ly ten dollars m o m a ton than

Sun4Jaid paid.

Qilb: In other worda, the papor was all i n favor o f the growers?

k t t i n g r Oh, everg bwihess influence of every kind mas absolutely

tight. I had to go to th tiw outlying tame, t o l i t t le . . . . . . . . . , . . .. . .

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papers that nobody 'read sxcept:a for paoplc . in t h o a e ' t o n v. . . .: . . . .

: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . : .. . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _ . . . . . . . . . . .. . .

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. .md r w ads,'&them. I ha&'a :w,ry inter83ting e x p ~ r ~ & n c a .;

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w i t h those l i t t l e l o c d editors who were also the typesetters

and janitors and avcrytM.n~else in tila e s t s .b l i~3ant . But we

gct o mrtxin amorat of publLcity and some contracts for gooda,

but not -nay. The terrorism down ttare was terrific.

O i l b t Did you try other in&~cemnt.obesl.des the price?

Nutting; Ho, loo jmt had a reputa'b%onfor t,reating the farmers righta

anc? price was the only different.ial there.

Gi l b t During the t h e you had a contract with S~n-Ihid~you were not

i n a bad position. You \%re d i n g s profit.

Nuttingt P:o, during t h a t tim,.the first year, before I got that contract,

wo had R desperate time getting goods and that's the time we did

tl= dvertiaing. D u r i n g that five-year period$ or four-year

period, slnder tho contract, vzu had plcnty of goods *om Sun-

"bid, &tho@ one of thoce years there as an early rcin

whi'ch drrtlaged a l o t of the go& nhcn *,hey=re curing and

%heylmd nat delivered the fiftocn h w i o d tons plus twenty

percenta and & L d i ~ ~ n ~on behalf of the Sun-Irkid$ refused t o

dolivor then 011 the pound that thqj dldntt have then, Ghat

tiney k d sold all they had..

I sent out a few telegram E a s t and bought up a few

carload^ of Sun-tIaid goods which he was then sellinga at

advancct mites, o f course, aml then presented him with the

documents and saida "You m e me thirty-five thousand do'Uara.

Let me have your check," He held up his hands. "Wella*he

said, N I ' l ldo it."

Nutting;: He did, but he said, "Keep It quiet. 1'11 give it t o you i n

an allowance of a quarter of a cent a pound on the goods you're

getting t h i s year." He wanted t o keep it quiet.

G i l b r You didn't lose, and the packers v$ao signed special contracts

with the S d C a l ddidn't lose, They made sone p o f i t , The

growers were helped. Who loat?

Nuttingt The .growersdidn't get a not result w h e r e nesr what they

expectcd ar what it ;d&t have been because the managemnt of

the Sun-Maid was pretty extravagant in advertising.

Gilbt You think that tb growera were exploited by the managemnt of

the Sun-mid.

Nutting8 I wouldn't put it as strongly es thi;. A t that stage anyway,

I think Wylie GFffen, who was a pramater bp nature and a good

one, was earnestly endeavoring to get tho growers together,

keep them together and keep them delivering t o t h e Sun4aid

and getting the best returns he could fo r t l ~ m . A t a later

parfad, a few years later, there mas so= eAqloi t ingof the

grower in this respect. As I've already stated, 1 think

certa3n goods were graded up and tiwy ~houliln't have been,

though I have no p e r s o d knmledge on that subject. I know

tha t the management of the S ~ n 4 a i d ~na.ml.y the president d

the general manager, were speculating i n vineyards a t that ths,

brrying vineyards on a shoostring. The general manager told me

a t that t- that unless the raisin price t h a t year amunted

to a certain a m m t per pound, he was broke. That made a

dangerous si tuation for the growers, W r y : the i r management

personally intereatcd i n high prices which parhaps would be

I

BANCROFT LIBRARY t.BO high to move d l the goods for the gruwera.

Oilb t Pet after.the organization of the California Rabin Association,

the growers got far kettar pricea f o r their raisins, didn't

14uttirg: I think for awhile, yes, I =odd rather check the data before

saying definitely,

a i lb t I'd l i k e to go into tho r e s u l t s of the California Assodiated

a littile more. Did it ten2 %o raise the price& vineyard

land? Up through 1919 and after?

Huttingr If thag did yield larger retarna to ths growers, Wlat would

tend, other things being equal, to raise the price of the

vineyards*

Gilb: That would also raise tha price o f your vineyamb, wouldn't

i t ?

Gilb s So you did have that indiract benefit Xrom the organization?

h t t i n g t Possibly. I don't remember i f values went up at that time.

I do h o w that in 1922 or '23 the values of vineyards w e r e

vexy high, k t I think that w a s due to general conditions,

The firot World War, &om 1914 to 1918, sent values of every-

thing way up, and thia Sun-lad began its operations i n 1913.

It was organized I n 1S12, kut began operation in1915, So you

see, there were m q y factors, The m a r and the inflation were

a big part of it.

Qilbr It seems that w i t h the advent of the SundAaid, for one mason

Nuttingr Far a tW it as decidedly unpopular. I had t o keep an armed

guard on plant there fo r sane nonths d u r i m this p r i o d 8

during the time of this terrorbtm I mentioned. I n fact9 the

whole c o d t y wag a unit in that respect. But the ultimate

e f f e c t of these organizations t h a t promote unified selling a d .. -

boosting the prices i a to keep the inef f ic ient farmer producing

QnB thereby continuhg the surplus and making it harder in the

long -for the sound farmer t o keep g ~ i ~ .

Gilb t And your argusnent was t h a t no matter how w e l l they organized

the induatrg, they still had t o compete with other conmodities.

Nutting: Yes, that was one fac tor they overlooked, Particularly the f a c t

that it competes with wheat flour. Even the packers overlook

t h a t sometimes. The raiain is not an item by itself. Even a

representative of the Federal Fann Board, i n an address I

r&m5er a t the time, clairoed that a l l they had to do uas to

alter the pr ice i n order to increase or decreaae the sale of

raisins. That, of course, is bunk, because the raisin is

competing vdth oth& products. I happened t o tell him about

t h a t fact but he wouldn't cmallorr it.

Befar to w&onomic S t a t w of the Qrape Industry," a

pamphlet prepared by S. W e Shear in cooperation with H.F. Gould,

B u l l e t i n No. 429, put out by the University of C&Ffornia8

Oiannini Foandation in 1927. Specifically r e fe r t o pagee

104 arsd 105 which show graphs giving for the period 1909 t o

1927 cansumption, imports, purchasing power, production and

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Also mfer to a dneographed report hy the Oiarmini Foundation

t i t l e d nEconomic s i tua t ion and Xarkct 0rga.nizatIon I n the

California Grape hcfustriasn by George L. Mehren w i t h s t s t i s t i c 8

compiled by S.W. Shear, put out in 1950. Refer especially to'

pages 32 q d 55 which shm graphs o f the typea and var ie t ies of

raisin grapes and wine grapes, returns to the grower per ton by

type o f ut i l iza t ion during the period 1934 to 1949,

Tha graph i n these documents shm an increase o f acreage

in raisin grapes and of tonnage produced mounting very rapidly

frat about the time the Sun-lbaid was organiaed, Prices t o

growers w e r e bos+kd eomnhat, but the t e t a l s produceci rose

fron f30~iesixty-fl.rc thousand tons of fa is ins t o three hundred

thonaand tons L~Ithe yearc fram 1309 to 1926;an increase a l l out

sf propztiion t o the incraase fa the populatio~lof tha United

S t a b s . This increased tonnage, largely caused ky Sun+laid98

booatisg of tfrs price and also caused by war conditions, which

enormusly increased prices, has meant thzt the industry Baa

been dependent upon the United Statas government practically

every year for the past f i f t s e n o r twenty years for subcidization .

in one form o r another, The industxy has lcept in exiatefiae mriw

marginal famers who might bet te r have dropped o u t and ceased

producing surpluses to be taken care o f by the people a t large

through the foderal treasurg, That i s theory.

Nmenr, I nust take issue rdth your statement that I was

txying ti break up tbe monopoly. PO sfiort was mcie by net in . ,

. . . . . . . . . . . .. .

the. l i t i ga t ion which re st&& on behaU of c&tain packers,.to:' > , -:. . ' , . : . :

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. . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .

. .. . . . . . .break. . up t& . . It r a . sto'mguluto. . . . . . . . . . . . ::sun-kid.. . . . . . . . . the sun-&!aidthrough . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . ..

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the Department of Justice .or t h a hders l h a d 6 ~ocvnissi6nunder:' , .' . ; , ,

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. .

The Sheman anti-trust law. \Ye suceedad ill accomplishing %hat.-A resu l t of the f ive years of l i t i g a t i o n was a decree entered

in the United Staters District Court i n and for thesouthern

Dis t r i c t of California restraining them from carrying on such

proceedings a8 were i l legal .

Gilbr Were your desires t o have t h i s organization regulated based

upon a bel ief in f r e e competition?

Nutting: Yes, I believe t h a t in the long run free competi%ionw n g

farmers,,m anone packera o r manufacturers or anybody else, is

esaentid. i n th f s countrp, since auoh cornpatition w i l l prevent

excessive prices on raisins, thereby preventing excessive

planting of vineyards. Over-production ha8 been the bane of the

indwt ry for the past 25 y ~ i r 8 . .

Gilb 8 One of the things tha t S m 4 a l d tried t o do wae t o advertise

r a i b and inorease' the popularity of raisins, Did t h a t not . .

help the other packera by increasing their market? . ,

Nutting: I Pappen to have had a man on the books of the Sun-bid for a

month undsr order of the District C o u r t , so I have the figwe.

T h . q spent nineteen mQllion dollars on advertising during a

period, It dig promote the increased aonoumption of ' r a i a im,

It inareased the poundage per capita consumed by the public

h.on a h e r e around one pound per capita to, I think, about

three pounds per capita. But the cos t of advertising and

promoting t k d ~wae 80 great tha t the g r m r got very l i t t l e I

. .

out of it a t t h a t period. . . . .: ' . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . ~ i l b t. . ~ o u l d n tt ym prof i t .by it p e r a o e . a , great deal?., . . . . .. . . . . . . ....:. . .

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:~q . . . . . . . . . .......... : rnttiag.% . e o d d om nuoh bet ter tian .:. : ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .

1 . . . . . . . . . ... :. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . -. . . . . .

, .:. . . , : t h ~ ~ u n ~ ( a ~ d , d i d . . . . :.: I..'. . . .in a much m c n e c o n o m i c s l a r d c f f i o i ' ~ t b a ~ ~ 8 . ' . :"". . . .

. . . . . . . : . . . . .. . (. . . . . . . : . . . . . , .. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. . . . : , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ' a ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : .

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T h e Sun-Maid and other sirnilar organizations have to be more o r

i lesa pol i t ica l . For instance, a t a later period, according t o I i

1 rumor, pract ical ly every fire insurance agent in t h e San Joaquia 1 ) V a l l e y was 8 representative of the Sun-Maid f o r insurance purposes,I j

i J u s t t o g e t him W u e n c e . And t h a t cos t money, of course. All

I I so r t s of thing6 that are semi-legitinate, but p o l i t i c a l in I

I mture. I

Gflba Did Sun-)daid maintain lob'tlyists i n Saoramento?

Nutting2 I think so. I k m they had them thew a t various times. I

dontt knm i f they had one there all the t l m o r not.

Oilbs Vere you ent i re ly alone, or were you joined by other packers

i n your f i g h t againtrt Sun-Maid?

Nuttinga I was ohairman of a committee which was k n m as the Legislative

Cornittee, the notes of which I have in a f i l e . I was chaisman

of that oommittee for f ive years and represented tha t committee,

which oonsisted of the heads of most of the packing firms,

rxcept ing California Packing Corpora t ion (~alpao).

Gilb: %vim those t h a t had signed contracts?

Nuttlngt Thie ie at a subsequent two 1912 o r 1913 was the date of thase five-.gearcontracts I

mentioned whiah were executed betwoen the Sun-kid and the

packere. Those contracts ran u n t i l about 1918, whuh w a ~the

end of the war . Prices m r e way high, Then Giffen, on behalf

of the Sun-Naid, told the paokers he would not renew the contraots,

They had rmn out and we could g e t no more goods. He said, We

want your businesa f o r our growers and wetre going t o haw, it,"

I aaid, iffe en, you know that ma- Pight, don t t you?'

G i l b t

Nutting:

~ Nutting:

He said, "Well, I think xe can take what's coming t o usow I

said t o myself ,*You w i l l , a l l righten

And so I got t h s e packers together. Calpac was not i n

that group, the Legislative Coxanithe. We ~ a d eCdpao the

defendant, alollg with Sun-X~id, because t h y had a preferential

contract with Sun4Xaid. We made then a defendant under the

Sherman Law.

-Inother words, your Legislative Committee was organized

expressly t o fight through this legal issue.

Yes, you might say solely for tbat purpose.

Tbse contracts had expired i n 19113 and thia must have

been about 1919 or 1920. And for f ive years we were fighting

in the courts before the Federal Trade Cmias ion and then the

~epartmentof Justice, am3 i n the U.S. District Court. A s a

result of this fight, i n part, Congress anended the Sherman Law,

exempting farmers'' cooperatives from the operation of that law.

T h a t was put over i n Washington while I nraa there, as a result

of our procedure. (See H.R. 7784, introduced July 24, 1919.)

id yon approve of the law?

No, I see no reason why farmers should be exempt from the

anti-trust law.

Ihwing the s U yeua between I912 andl 1918 m a there

attempt t o break up the monopoly?

We operated under those contracta. VJe had our volume of

business, which is the essential thing, and we had the goods . .

at the opening prim announced.b y the Sun4.laidntW:, . . . . . . . . . : . . . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . . : . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . ., . , , :. ' . ' . . . .

: . - . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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Nuttingt

Gilbt

Nuttingr . .

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announcod tho ?rice for the w h o l e trade a t %he ke<$nning of

the aeaaon, We got them a t that, l e s s certain allowances for

packing and sellbg, and there was a margin o f profit in that,

so we got along frri~lywell w i t h the Sun4faid for f ive years

under these contracts,

Then we were cut off l ike that. It was aubseq~entto that

that w e got together t o conpel then t o disgorge the goode,

rhioh we did,

Let's trace the s t m s by which you coapel l~dthen to give you

the goods*

A t first I went t o the Federal Bade Comission. That had

been organized ratller r e c e n w under the Wilson administration,

The Federal Tratle C o d s s i o n Act and the Clayton Aat o f 1814 had

recent;Ly been adopted. The Federal. Trade Co,misaion apparently

had authariw to do what we wanted, yet we found they were

rather uoak, eopecially after certain pol i t ica l influence8 were

brought t o bear, Tne Gomiasionern were jus t ready to issue

the order to go ahead when they saw tfro evidence' I presented

to them. It was absolutely convinoing, dU this terrorism and

monopoly, the monopoly part of it over the signature of the

Sun-Maid manager, Then, all of a .sudden, everything atogped,

I couldact get them to move. Then I went to the Deparbent o f

Justice,

Do you know w h a t made them stop?

Aqybody rho% been i n Washington aa math as I hore knma about . .

. . . . .

. . pol i t i ca l influence, and if you 're got fourteem thousand . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . :.

. . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . , . . . . . . . . . .: . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

g r o ~ o f i ,theirhives md childronagainst'you, ~yo.u,~ve-. . ~. : . .. : . ' . . . '.,

. . . . :. . . ... . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . ' . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .:: . . . . . . . . . .

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pol i t ica l influence.

G l t l b a So then you went t o the Department of Justice and thy

Nuttingt There was at least o m hearing befare tbe FNeral Trade

Comniaaion, with no results, oo I took up the matter w i t h the

Departlajnt of Justice, urging that hmeckkte action be taken.

Oilbr After the hearings before the Federal Trade Conmission you still

f e l t tha t thing8 m e n ' t the say they should be..

ESutting: Nothing was going t o be done.

~ i l b; ...SO then you got tbe Dspartasent of Justice to bring suit,

Nutting: The assistant t o the Attarnag-Gemral, who aas in charge of

anti-trust operations, ahoued me a l e t t e r from the United

States Attorney at Lo8 Angeles in which it was stated tha t they

could not get a verdict against the Sun-Ekaid under the anti-

trust laws b e q e e of local sentiment in the San Joaqnfn Valley.

There would be a Jury and the jury simply ccni3dntt be counted on.

I told the ~ s s i e & t to the Attorney4eneral t h a t that

naanft the remedy .andthat they shmlddt proceed c5.-.

They could proceed on the civil side of the Cour t for an

injunction t o prohibit this arganization frm proceeding

further utlder a l l these uontracts ~ 5 t htb growers which a m in

themelves i i r violation of the Sherman Lam. Apparenw thi8

had not occurred t o m. Gilbt That would be a ray of getting around tbs JurgO

. . . . . . . . . . .. . .

Nuttingr S u m . , . I said, i ~ o u t ~ ju- COPY)^',.... .:;. .haw i o jury Md 7- . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . ,. . . . . . . . . . . ...: . . . . . . - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .::...

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'. .. . . .. . . .. . . . . . . I . , . . . . .. . . . . ... .. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . : . : . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. .. .. , . , . . . . . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . ... . .. .. . . . . .. . : . . . . . . .. . . : . . . . . . .. . .. . ... . . . . .. . . . , . : . . . .. . . . ., . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . .. . . .

. . . . . .

I: from three I~undredruileo may. Youtve got a fair chance there."

Well, they did exactly what I proposed, but they took

years to do it. F told them at the time that conditions in the ,. - .

trade were such Lhat nobody would be hurt much by Utigation,

nobody had latany gods an hand. If yon ,havegoods, ypu ,haw,

and the nraske* breaka, ~ v ,there are terrific losses on

emrgbody, grower, pckerrt Sun-Haid, who hiis the g a d s on hard.

I said, "This is the time when lttlgatian au&t to be

c A n ~ e dright now, the i n d u s ~ ~r r h ~ is in shape tm it won't

be hurt very mch. Yau*vo got o clear case here and before a

judge from lcay off I n Logl Anmles, two h7dred m i l e s away.n

W e l l , they took two yeare t o do all thiso and the sam

official, operatir~toro yema la*ver9t e l e ~ a ~ h e da t21Wy- or

far@-page camplaint t o Los Angeles *th instructions to f i l e

it quickly azrd to out a reatrain3q ordm. After two

years' .tinet And t?:enwe Rare all loaded up with goods,

Just at the tino of year when t h i s was a na-d condition.

Thia was about 1920. If.a~ffihingbroke i n Ure wag of pbl i c iw

and litigation, the rrtarkat would GO d m and everybody who had

any goada would Zbso money, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This canplaint ma filed on the civil side of the U.S.

Distriot C o u r t in Los Angeles for i n j m t f o n j an8 s restsaining

order oras issuedt ar an order to show a u s o ma issued, I forget

nfiich.

Then a very praminont attorney of Fresna (whom 1 had

I paid me one hundred and f i f ty thousalld dollars f o r an admitted

breach of contract bp them without even going to t&) aams

t o me and said, Nutting, I've been your attorney and I

woultin't accept a retainer from Sun-hid without your consent

under any conditions, but they want me to represent than i n

t h i s case the Government i s bringing against them, What do

you think about i t ? #

I said, *Oo ahead. I'd rather have a fr iendly enerq than

the other kind," So he did,

fie represented them in some negotiations a f t e r t h i s order to

show cause had been issued which resulted in a consent decree.IIli We all got together, It was a time when ewwybody would be hurt

so much by a fight t h a t we got together on a consent decreeII whereby the SunwBBaid was coqelled t o del iver thousands of tons

of goods t o us packers and was restrained from all these high-

handed proceed in;;^ of the past, and restrained from monopoly.

The decree camo J a n q 18, ' 19W. That decree i e still i n force.

11 That's part of the fun of the game. (laughs)

Gilbt WhBt role did you play when the suit began against Sun-kid?

Nuttingt I handled the legal business, that ia , the sees before the:- . ti .. Federal Trade C o d a s i o n and th Department of Justice. I

supervised them# I retained couneel i n Xashington and in Los

Angeles. I retained farnrer Assoaiate J w t i c e of the SupremeII . . ,

C o u r t John 8. Preston, He handled the case f o r us. I didn't

handle the court work, I wae simply employing counsel t o . '.. . . . .

. . . . t handle the routine'wxk. . . . . . . .. ..

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.' . . . . . . . . . I . . . . ' . . , ,

/ . . . . Gilbr : . D i d these c o m a e l you liired rkpreeent you before '~ongmas?. . : . . . . . . . .

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..... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: .< , .: . . . . . . . . . . ..: . . . . . . . .

\ . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . I . . ' . . . . . ., . . . . , . . . I . ; . . . . . . . ' I . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . ' . . ., ' ,*

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Nutting! No, wu didn't do a,xy lobbying. O u r sentbent was that we

wanted t o go on and handle our own business ard keep quietli(

about it and not t ry the cases before Conpress or in the

neoPswpers or anywhere else.

During the pendency of the s u i t under the Sherman law byIl the United S+a-ks government in the Dis t r ic t Court at Los Angeles,

'Wylie Qiffen, as president of tha Sun-EIaid, i n Pi- of the fact

Chat we were a t t ackhg the validity of the contracts between theI I Sun-&bid and its powers, nudering something l ike fourteen

thousand growers, I believe, put over a campaign among the

gtuwera to sign new contracts vihich would be free of i l l ega l i t y

and which muld be submitted t o the court for approval. That

campaign was successful, the con t rads were obtained, and then

at rqp instance, the court ordered one change i n the contract.

The contract i t s e l f bound the power t o deliver his wops fo r

f i f t een years to cape without providing Khat net proceeds of

t h e sale of the goods bg the Sund-faid should be paid to the

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grower. In other words, it t i e d him hand and foot for f i f t e en

years. At q instance, the court ordered a modification

stamped on the aon"w.act to the effect that the grower and the

Sun-FMd should eael have an opportunity at the end of eaoh

three-year period tn abrogate the contract on notice to the

other, thereby making it more reasonable in every respect and

compiling the Sun4'kid to act more in line with the real

interest of the gaaers since the growers had a r igh t t o get out a t

BANCROFT LIERARY

three-year intervals.

You can see what an important matter that was. AU

these fourteen thowand people tied up for fifteen yeara to

came, regardless of w h e t h e z they received any money or not.

Nuttingr The management of the Sun-!:aid, i n view of the high prices

obtainfng ix192r)-1921, announced t o the growera that if the

prices resmined high, the grower would receive a net payment

for his crop of, I believe, tez? cents per wmd, lphfch is

several times larger than the normal, O f c m s e a the gmer

overlooked ths conditions attached to tlie s t a t e m n t and when

the narket went d m , pro5ably i n 1921, w v dm, and the net

yield was only, I believe, five cenba instead of ten, the

grower was very sore and the pressure upon Oiffen was t e r rFf ic

to do something about it and pay a larger sum than had been

realized.

He calmed the Sun-'Aid t o pay the grower five cents, I

Selfeve that 's the amount, i n cash and five cents aore in a

d e m note which, of course, put the S&ktid i n a f r igh t fu l lg

bad positton the next fall when it carne t o going to the banks

fur a loan t o finance the coming crops, The t o t a l aimmt of

these notea, X believe, was several million dollars.

Gilbt What motivated Cfiffen? Was he really sympathetic .to the growers?

Nutting: He was the biggest power i n the lo t , you knma awl he m a

1 going to get thia ten cents, The pressure there mi3 m i f i o 3

A t any ra tes the follmdng fa l l Herbert Fleishhacker, then \

head of the A n g l o Bank, called me over t o his office t o discuaa

! oondftfons at Fresno with the Sun-kid, as he had done before, I . . . . . and the banks removed: Giffen, or oausad his removal, a@ . . . . . . . .

. . . . , ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . " . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . .:. . ' . . .. . - . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . : . : . . . . . . . . . . . , :.

. . . . : . . . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . :. . ~ . . . . . . . . . . . ~ .. _ _ . " . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . , . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . : . : - . :. . . . .. . . .. , :. . . . . . . . . . . . . . -.. . . . . . . .. .. . . . . . . .. ' . . . . .. . . .. . . . . .. . .,. . . .. . . . . .. , . . . . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. ' . . .. . . . .. : . .

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: . . . . . . . . , i . .. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . :.~. .. . .. . . : . . .. . . . . . . ..... , . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .., ,. . . . . . .. - .. . . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .. .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . .. . . . . :.. . . I ' . . . . , . . I. . . - ' . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . ., .. .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . .

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1 i I ;I :

! I installed Ralph Merritt as general manager (1922). H e was

generally supposed to be the appointee of the^ gm&s and their

board of directors, but actually I am quite sme that it waa the

banks, The banks financed the oaming crop.

G i l b t What happened t o Glffen?

lluttingr He went on farming some thousandor of acres of r lneprds , which

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Ruttingt

he had generally bu@t on a ehoestring.

mas he on the Board yet?

Yes, I think so. I'm not sure.

O i l b t What kind of man was Ralph EIorritt? He had been Food

Administrator dwing the war, hadn't he?

Nutting: He w a ~ ~firrst w i ' i Miller and Lux, an enormously la rge land-

arsming firm, Then he was Comptroller at the University of

Cal.Lfmnia. Then he became Food Adniniatrator WBTHerbrt

Howw during the war. I n 1922 he was made general manager

of Sm-Naid. He nas put in to that d f i u , three banks,

the Anglo, the Bank of America, and Security F i r s t National of I

! 1 !

Loa Angeles d o mere financing Sun-Eaid

forgotten how long E e r r i t t waa in,

a t the time. I've

O i l b t He was i n until 1951, rhen William ICeelsr took aver.

Nuttingt I believe when KeaTi t twnt out, Harry Creeoh was made general I

j i i

. manager far a time, I 'believe at t b instance of the banka.

Then Merritt was appointed, he having been ut ter ly inexperienced I in the raisin businesa or i n merchandising of a v kind, lslp

sale8 manwer, who was p a a b l y the best sales manager in the

. industry, and I went t o see ikrritt i n Fresno and offered our

assistance and advice in any way that might be acoeptable in

I

allbr

Nutting:

the handling o f this big position ha waa in.

Ha was very courteous but mas never v i l l i n g to accept any

advice from us or from aqyone e lse that we were able t o learn

of. He thought of you as competitors, didn't he?

We l a d a reputation there as large growers, among the very

largest, and, i f I may say so, of being square shooters, so

most q b o Q else in the industry would have been glad for

the aciice.

Be was i n 02fice for several years and anong other things

reorganized Sun-2aid. Ue caused the Sunddaid t o go through

w h a t was e q r s s s l y statcd over h i s sfgnature afternard t o be

a 'phoney tankruptcy.

I Antroduced evidence in t'ne Fedaral Trade Comission a t

Kashhgton actually containing his f a c s h i l e siwat u r ~under that

statement. He caused' t he hi-dcriiptcy and reorgartisation t o

take pLace, on the theory that the corporation nns b a x i ~ ~ p t .I

u n d e ~ s ~ n d+,hatproperty worth s m millions of dollsra was

transferred from the o l d corporationto a newly organized

corporation which i a now i n exisbnce. This was done in exchange

for the stock in the new corporation. Of course, the debts

went wit11 the property, log- speaking, but they bluffed out

a lot of their croditors by claiming that the cld corporation

had besn diesolved and its debts had gone nith it. They tried

that on ae a t a noeting a t broakfaat.. .

I Nuttingt

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Yea, I had t h i s five-yeas uontract with Sundaid od.l iah w a s

a t U nuuring 'tor fiFteen hundrad tons a year p l w twenty

percent and.damages under that contraot.,.There wm rrornething

l i k e two hundred and f i f t y o r three hundred thousand dollars

due, as I eetiicated, I took up the matter with Ralph Merrit t

and the attorney for the Suh-tdaid, Harry Creech, a t breakfast

a t the H o t e l Fresno one morning, There wera also some goods,

I believe, due under the contract.

They claimed nost emphatically that the Sun-%aid was

bankrupt and had boen dissolved. With considerable geeticulcr-

t ion and emphasle, tlioy cl~ imedthat the new corporation w a s

separate and d i s t inc t from the old coworation and was not

responsible for tho l a t t e r ' s debts. "You donf t know how

aepa+nte and d i s t inc t they are," Harrj Creech said, I t o l d

him, "Yea, f know exactly hon separate and d i s t inc t they are

a d that 'e why I ' m going to make than dofendante in o m sui t .

The old corporation transferred i t s property t o a n e w corpora-

t ion i n exchange fo r atock I n the latter, and the debts went

with the property,n

They refused ta do arlpthing, ao I nued both corporationsl

without even going t o trial, t h q gave me a uheck f o r one

hundred and fifty thousand dollars. One count i n qy camplaint war

based upon a provision in the contract under wniah my comparpr

was en t i t l ed to tb best discount8 an4 allowance8 and the loweat

price charmcl anyone the Slrfi-Maid during the year, md to

get tlmt evidance ~rithontgoing t o overy broker in the United

Statee, whicn was impracticable, I had t o go t o the' Sun-gEaid

sales records, and when X did so under an order of the court,

I found that as Mr. Uadison and Ralph M r r i t t and Clvrech told

me, the sales recordo for that year had been inadvertently

destroyed by some subordinate. The records of tabpreceding

and succeeding years were iztact, but that particular year '

that I needed l a d been destroyed. So I compromised for the

o m hundred anc? f i P Q thousand uollars cash, which they paid

without even going to trial,

Gilb3 What nzs Rdph X e r r i t t ts reputation as a manager? Waa he I

1 prstty good?

t i Tjefore he went there, he had a l o t o f put . l i c iw and a

reputatiori. Fie =as a great pcblicity man. And of course,

that convLrjced a l o t o f pemple who didn't know, but as a

natMr o f fact , in the opinion of packers and others i n the

indwt rg he proved to Is all e x c e e d b m poor manager.

One th ing he did, for instance, ha caused a raisin syrup

to be produced, son&thing nobody 'had ever prohced before as

far as I knon,

GWG: It didn't take,

' . Hutting: hb, andwithout waiting to f i n d outwhether the trade would

taks the stxtf, without t ry ing it out all over the United

States os wane mould naturally do, he built a seven hundred

find f i f t y thouand dcllar srrupplant i n Frosno with Suh4aid's .

money. That p l a n t is st i l l standing there and it is s t i l l

idle so far as I know; I kelievo 3.3 has teen idle practically

all the tkne since it was built . In anoiffer to cr i t i c i sms by

BANCROFT LIBRARI'

the growers; he announced in the Sun-?.?aid publication one time,

aver hjs signature, that that plant hadn't cost anything because

it waa built out of inventory, whatever that means.

~ I ~ R A R Y

Oilb r

l t t i n g t

Gilb a

Nutting2

Gilb I

Ih t t ing :

I ; i '

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j ' . . 9 . . . . . . . . < . . . . . .

ECOIiOltIC ZFWSSIOM; NldTTIMG SELLS H I S V I I \ E Y A M E , 1923; F X N A W C ~ 1929~~FICUL-rns ,

Qoing back to Wylie Oiffen, you said he uaa suoh a nell-known

pemon that he could have been govenor or a n y t w g he ranted,

Did he reinain popular?

He was v e q popular d m there during the high-priced times.

Iiigh prices make popularity. The grozer -as gettinp; a con-

sidora5le mount, 'keprices every yea.are available,

Pkat did the bad drop i n 1921 and '22 and the overproduction

do t o your firn? Did it cause you a q difficulty?

?Jo, at that t h e ore got alone; very well. >'gtrouble came in

I how eat by 1923 there was such o~er-glantingthat prices

were $ing way down, f

Xell, I got r i d of my vineyards In t h e then,

A few years after the litiga-bbon in Rashington before the

Federal Trade Con~issionand the Departnent of Justice I n which,

as he expressed it, I had Rylie Giffen, president o f the Sun-ldlaid,

ncomm+,ingto Vashington* a8 a witness, I WAB desperately mudous

to s e l l all the vineyards I bad. There had keen so much new

planting that an enonncrus surplus of raisins waa inevitable', I

au.ihorized a broker to sell tho three vineyards which I then had.

3e sold two o f therc to other parties and then csma t o me and said

that he was gob& to bring i n as a buyer Eylie ~ i f f e iwho 'had . . . . . . . . .

: , . . .. . . Iattacked.I& .lthe ca&s,,'iqx! nmspapers mmy . times and w i t h ".:;:.:.. . . . . . i. . . . . . . . . . .

. . .. : .: .. .: . .. . . .

':.. . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. .

. .: . .. . . . .. . . . . . . . !. . . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . ,. . . . . :nhomthe+-ehad be.n some feel ing for five but 'that I ';:: :., , . . . :.. . .

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'.- . . . . . . . . . . .. .'. . , . . . . . , .. , .. . .. . .. , . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . - .. .. .. . . :. . . . ' .. . . .. ..i ' . .. . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . .. . .. . . .. . . . .: ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .,: . . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . ,. . . . . .. . . .. . . ... . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .. . :. . . . .., . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. C -. . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . , . . : . .. . ., . .. . . \ . .. . . . . .. . :.. . .. . . . . . . . '

:' . . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . .! - _ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .. . . . .. - . . , , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . : . . . . . .. . . .

I

3

6

must pronise t o l e t by-gones be by-gone8 or he couldn~t bring

! him fn. I said that I would l e t by-gones be by-gones with the I

Devil himself if he would only b q k t vineyard and pay f c r it,

the l a s t of vineyards aonsisting of eleven hundred and ten

acres at a price of eight hundred and seventy-five thousand

dollars.

The broker brought We GFffen in. His face was a l i t t l e

red st f i r s t , but he wanted that vineyard. During the two or

three orreeks .of negotiations, I learned from a publication of 1

the California Department of Agriculture jwt what the planting

af vineyards had been in each county of the state, and they

were enormously large. I oms fearful l e s t Giffen, from whose

office these f igmes must have come because thero \.rere no such

fi&s anywhere else, would discontinue the negotiations. But

he came back, signed the contract of purchase, paid the deposit

or first papent, and same weeks after, he came i n and asked ms

if I had kn& about all t h a t planting that had been going on.

Why, yes, of coursesn I said. HI had t h a t repart in q desk

when WB signed the contract.*

ngphy3n he said, "1 never dreamd there could be such a

thlng. I called the secretary of our carporation d told him

there mwt be something wrong, but he sat is f ies me that it's

right." And Giffen nas the head of the organization that

undoubtedly ftrrnished the figures t o the S t a h Board of

Agriculture and he hadn' t known when he as entering an

eight hundred and seventy-f ive thousand dollar transact ion

w h a t these plantines and ovorjwoduction were going t o be.

Gilb: This was contrary t o hie reputation as a very shel id man.

What gear dld you sel l this v lnqa rd?

Nuttingr Itm not sure. I tinink i t was i n 1923, I ' m mentioning this

f a c t as having a bearing on tk a b i l i t y and nature of the

S-=-Maid management, I n the hands of a man n h muld speculate

on vineyards on a shoestring, although he paid a good deal more

than a shoestr ing on plaos, and who a t tb same tfms would

be ignorant of the a ta tua of the Industry u i t h reference to

production, present and future, as he was.

G i l b r I suppose the advent 02 Prohibition affected your induetry

since the vin8yardi~ts a l so grew nine grape80

?Jutting: Indirectly. Some o f these grapes could be used f o r wine, of

course, and w e r e thrown Into t h e raisin market.'

After 1929 I had t o take two o f apr vineyards back, but

a t i l l I had half the money paid so the sale was not a bad one,

The one I sold -lie Giffen I didn ' t ham b take back. I

shoned him how, iesuing bonds, to d is t r ibu te the payments

on the vineyard I: sold hlm oms a period of year8 inatead o f

having Po pay i n one o r two or three years, While he said

it would cos t him a l o t of money, more than he had made in the

past fo r ty years, t o i s sue bonder, he finally made up hia mind

to do it and paid me off en t i r e ly mithin the first two o r

three years, e i g h t hundred and seventy-f iva thoueand doll8ra.

G i l b t PPhat happened t o you in 19291

Nutting: That'8 a thing I don't l i k e to think about.

O i lb t . In other words, you were caught l i k e evsryho@ else,

Nuttingt In 1927 and 1923 I made up my mind personally that the thing

BANCROFT, L IBRARY

to do was ta get out of the business, we were going t o have

a smash, -

I discussed it with q y principal associates then, the

matter of diecontirming the businsas. !l'hery 'urgedme t o a*

on one year more and I did, The resu l t was, t he depression

came i n October o r November, 1929, during our peak season when

we were owing s i x hundred thousand dollam and had a l o t of

merchandise which afterward beuame w a l e a b l e . W e had sold

these vineyards on the baais of fourteen hundred and twelve

hundred and f t f t y and acre, and the Wl ie Giffen one a t

seven hundred an acre. 'Iko of those vineyard aales f e l l

through and we had to take thoee vineyards bauk and operate

them, together with other vineyards w e had loaned money on a t

one hundred and twenty-five an acre which was less than half

what the hanks were lending on similar vineyards a t the time

we loaned the mney, I had to tab a l l of them back too,

Silbt Then you were land poor,

Muttingr Land poor, and we had a l o t of merchandise on haqd too, Oh,

we were anything but broke but we j u s t couldn't turn, Then

' ' .the National City Bank of New York notif ied m s t h a t when the

now f o r seventy-five thousand came due, they would liks t o

bave me taka it up because re were 80 far emey out hem.

latckily, I had the aeventpfive thouaand and paid it. Then,

a week o r two l a t e r the S b m t Hational Bank of Ebaton,

Massachusetts, uame througllr ;l8 th a similar letter on the same . . . .

. . . . . . . . ..

. . . . , .., , .. . grounds and I didn't have that, seventy-five ' thbusand.. . .: . ': \ . . . ,. . .

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . .-. . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . ~ . . ' . . ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . < . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . .. . . . . ,. . :. . ' . . . - : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . , . . .

..:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . j . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..,; . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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Oilb: Then your c m p q was fincnced by banks all over the country?

Nuttingt Tea, I had played one bank a g a h t another wherever I could

get the best interest rate, and I had borrowcd the money at I argr one of four banks, and I saved a l o t t h a t way too.

The Crocker First f i t i o n a l in San Francisco took up t N a

l a s t seventy-five thowand because they had induced ne to go

to t h a t bank, I thought it was a very decent thing for thm I to do,

I

So there mas a pinch there, ht at no t h e d i d S have

less than a quarter of a million or more, even during the

worst period, If I could have sold aqything, but nothing

would sel l , . ,

OIllr packing plant a t D e l Ray, Frosno County, was sons

toro hundred and fifty feet zide, four hundred and fifty feet

long and three stories high, a frame buildl.ng and highly

conbustiUe. A t one time during the dopression we had

several hundred thousand dollars worth of raisins i n the plant,

and raisins m u l d not sell a t q y price during that depression

period. O m evening, when I was at dinner at the hotel ia

Fresno, I naa called t o the phone by our pouking house saper-

intendenkwh0 urgsd nrs to aome out cpickly Zo Del Rey as the

plant mas on fire. I started out as quiakly as possible,

txying hard not to hope that the plant would be burned lrnd give

us a good sale, When I arrived at D e l Rey, a l i t t l e t o m o f

four or five hundred people, the plant superhtendent camo out,

sajring under his breath that tho fire was out and that ha

BANCROFT LIBRARY

hoped that he would not br, discha~ged. (laughter) The mayor

of the l i t t le town alao cane congrntulating m e and hknself

that he had saved, with the aid o f h i s l i t t l a f i r e department,

our plant for Del Rey. I thanked him and tried not t o be

sorry that I did not have the caoh value o f the plant and

contents *om the insurance company.

OPERATIONS OF THE M*?3iICAM S-LESS RAISIN CO?lPAIPIBA Nc RDFTLIBRARY SO= GENERAL CQZ%EXTS

Oilbt You b u i l t up a3.l thia enormoue enterprise and prof i t youraeU,

didn't you?

Nutting: Yes, it k w a l i t t l e bi t of a struggling concern in N e w E n g l a d ,

too small t o oarry a decent overhead and therefore it couldn't

gat the a b i l i t y and didn't have the capital t o make anything.

Oilb t. It rn incorporated undtar New England lam?

Nutting: It- a Fhssachuaetta trust, not a corporation. It was

incarporated by qp father. I had nothing t o do wLth the start

af it back tf.lere i n 1893. 1911 was the time they got in to

serious trouble, getting where they couldn't met their

obligations. The different stockholders m e fighting* which

02 course is a very band thing for any corporation, and the

principal atockholdwe a l l aaeed, including rqp father, t o sell

their InkresW.. .I didn't want any strugglee going on.. but

it looked like an opportunity far me t o get control i n order to

mske the busineos profitable and I did.

Oilb 8 It som& like an Horatio Alger s t a y .

Elutting: A t o m t i b e prior t o 1929 it was uurth well over a million

dollarsl but due t o the collapse of values i n 1929 and the

193Ps, it is not now warth more than a snall f rac t ion of tha t am.

Gilbr I know that your f i rm pioneered the use of Thompson aeedleaa

raisina. .

. . . . . . .

Nutting* Co-rciall j , yee. I t Zntroducedthem in the ~ m t .They had. : ' . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . .. . . .

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t o be sold by house-to-house .mvdsiie& &owl ' Boatan at fLrd : ' / / : . : ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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. . . . . . . . - ~. . . . . . . . ' I . .. .. . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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Qilbt

Nutting:

ailst

Nutting:

Cilbt

Wuttingz

Qilbt

N'uttlng.8

t o get them t o go a t a l l . They were leos than i.dfthe s ize of

tbe Mucat anl hadn*t ths f ine flavor, but they did not have . .

seeds to broak teeth on, so they verg gradually became popular

and now ,are something l i ke eighty-five percent of tbe e&e

indwtrg, and the indu~tryia m y , many times larger than it

was a t tha t time.

I wanted t o ask about so l l ing . Kaa it entirely on a loca l

market? Or did you expart t o farsign countries?

Ta did no exporting, The only foreign business we did was t o

sell t o a Japanese company with headquarters in San lkancisco

and aold them f ,o.b. San Francisco.

But most of your campaqts raisins were consumed in tlm ,

United States.

Yes. There were almy3 a good many going abroad kwa other

sources though.

Huw did you se l l those? Did you have your a ~ n nsales face or

did you sel l t o brokers and independent jobbers?

During the period that I controlled the company, our headquarters

m e Fn San Francisco, with branch offices i n Chicago and Boston,

from eaah of which t h e e offices a ealea manager supervised

brokers and a small sales force af our own.

Did you do much advertising?

No, We found it unnecessary t o do much advertising except i n

a few instances i n loc,?l c i t i e s where we did some mmpaper

advertising, Our best advartising m e from & treatment af . . . . . .. . . .

. . the broker8 and avoiding high-pressure ip.".- . " . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ . . : . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . ..: . .. . . ; . . . ~ . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: . ., ., . . .. . . , . . . . . . . .. . . . .. ., . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . , . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . , . . . .. . . .. . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .

013.bt D i d you t q r +lo expand into new markets?

Nuttingr Yes, when I bought control. of the 'buaineaa it +as confined to

New England and Ibrthern New Pork State. I spread it a l l over

the United S t a b s and increased it f'rm a pract ica l ly zero

pro f i t up t6 an average of a hundred thousand a year for firteen

years, largely by getting the inoreased volume of business ,dueto

apreadlng it over the entire country, including Canada,

Gilb t Did you frg to sell it to nem intereats7 That is, did you try

t o persuade the bakers t o use it in new ways?

Nutting t 'he Sun-Xfaid did som good work along that line. They dici a

l o t of demonstration among the bakers. Shed them haw to'

prepare their raisins, how rcuch to use per pound of tread and

so firth. But we never did that; we never had fi3.

Gilb t Your pro43ucts sold w e l l ?

lbuttirrg: We had a good sales force, not a large one. We had just t h e

men, but we picked them carefully and we did cult ivate the good

w i l l of the broker and his customer.

Gilb t Did you use the by-vroduats of your industrg?

tluttingr No. . .

(filbr Cver the years, did you gradually- expand your ca~italplant

and packing facilities?

Nuttlng t Yes, The plant was four or five times larger after I got

tlarough rernodeUing i t than it had been before.

Oilb : Md you develop any new pack- techniques?

Ruttingr Yes. In 1911 and prior to that t h e , evary pomd of raisins

in the packing plants of all the fims had to be handled by . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . ,: . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,. . . . :. ~. . . . . . . . . . ? : . , . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . .

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. . the content. i. . . . .

. .. . . hand.in. *hat. .were hetin as,sweat b x r s , . <eighine ri%h.. :. , ' . : . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . ~ .. . . . . .. . . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. : . ; . . . . . . . . . . :. . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . :.

about one hundred a& eighty to two hundred pounds, requiring

two men each time the box was handled. Theg had t o be l i f t e d

several t h e e during the process. One of my f i r s t a c t i d t i e 8

was t o go E m t and investigate packing plants in other lines

of industry and come back with a fen ideas which resulted In

Installing labor-saving devices in 'our-plant which ,did away

with any hand handling of the goods throughout the plant from

the time the goods were mceivud from the farmer u n t i l they

were delivered packed In to the Zreight cars, and on an fnoeat-

ment of about seventy-five hundred dollars these device8

saved us about four thousand dollars in labor i n the f i rs t fsa

months, besides speeding up the plant. Since then, a l l tha

plants are equipped with labor-saving devices of this kind.

Gilbr You were a pioneer in this respect..,.Did you watch as carefully

over gour vineyard operations aa you did over the packing, you

personally?

Nutting: Of c o m e , I was managing the buqiness i n San k.ancisco and I

'had a valley manager i n charge of all the operationa in the

San Jonquin Valleyj the growing, the buying (which was a large

element), and the packing; and under him there raa a super-I

intendent o f the packhg house and a superintendent of tfie

vineyarde. Then, there were the sales managers I referred to,

a general sales manager a t B a t s n and eventually a lso a t

Chicago and two other sales managers. And there was a foreman

. -,

- . - on each vineyard. . :,

, . . . i' r, . --. . ' . . . . . . . . . .

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Sub: . .

' b i n g ow period -didp u elpahdyour vlneyard ackage by bwing . ' , ' , ' . . , . . ..,

. . . . . . . . . . . ., . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . : . . . . :. . . . . . . . . . . I . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ' . , . , . . . . . . . . : . . . . . .. . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ) . ,'1. . . :: land?. . . . . . .... .. . . . . :. . . , : . . . ... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . - . . - ' . . . .

. .

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .- . . . . .. . . . . -. :. . .; . . .: . . .. . . . . , . .. . . . . . I . . . . . . .. . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .. . .. . . ,. . . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . : : . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .. ... . .. . . . . ' . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .

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8

AHC CROFT LIBRARY

Nuttingt About 1915 to 1917, after many months of search, I purchased

eloven h d r e d and t e n aores of land near Livicgston, '~erced

County, in the 7alley and planted t-hat to vineyard. It was

during war t h e and costs Mere high and labor scarce, but we

norked it out very successfully aqd it became one of the nost .

producC,ive -~xards in the staL%eof Cdiforaia, ni.i;hout excep-

t ion, I think it is the large3t raisin v-ard in the world.

That w a s dl in Thmpson seedless Cor raisins, not for w i n e .

Gilbr Could you list your vineyards?

Nutting8 Yes, re had a nuuber of vineyards as follona: Our Livingaton

theyard, elemn hundred and ten acres, in Xercsd Countyj a

general farm in ?.!erced Countyj a vineyard consisting of two

hundred and forty acres known as our i)el Rey rinejard near

Do1 Rey, and another o f one hundred md sixty ac-res known

as our Adam Avenue vir~eyard,both in Fresno County; another

of one hundred acres and one of forty acres near Selma, Fresw

County; another of one hun.Tred and sixty acres near Hanford,

Kings County; and four or five vineyards near 3elzn0, Ken

County, aggregating someth ing l i k e four hundred acroa.

Ws had a saperhtscdent over a l l of them and a foreman

on each vineyard.

The number of help variad f r o m season to season, In

tho spring, during the pruning season, 3.5 nould befair ly

large and then m u l d decrease to two or three msn on each

i vinq-ard d w a the cummer. Then, during the.f a l l tltsre .:

..

. ..

. . . I iI . . . . . . . . . .,: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5 . . . . . . . . , 1I

. . ..' : . . . . : . . . . . . would be .i t o t a l 1 of . something like a thousand peopl>.b:the ri. ....::. : . : . . . :.; . . . . . . i

. . . . .. . . , . : . - .5 . . . . . . . ' . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . - . : . . : . I . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . . . . ~.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I..... :: . . . . . . . . . :. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . ! . . .

. . . . ..:. :' : ; ' : 1 .: : ,;This*' l a t h r cme fml souihern.~ a l ~ f 6 r n i s ~ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . ... :.... . .... . . ;.. .. . . . . . . ... . . . . .. . , . .. . . ,. . . . . . - . .. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. .. .. . .. . , . .. . . . .

and K e r n generally Xexicans.

Oilb t Would this be an a t j p i c z l vineyard, or one of ik larger ones?

Nutting; Bel l , rotd have to have at least one man, the forman on each

yhdyard. When it was a dull oeason, the s m r season, weed

h v e M) one &se exce2t the foreraan, or p e r m s three or four

othor men. The thousand people iras an overall i n the

harvest seaton o n v ,

The pzcking plant used a na- of txo hundred people

at the busy season. They were uslally obtained from the farm8

nearby because the farming oeaaon, for labor, is at a different

period each year f'rom the busy season at the plaat.

O i l b t These w e r e fam' lat~omrs,not fm boys and girls?

h t t i n g t Fam bays and gfrls and laborers and some owners of fama.

A s I .indicated before, Gome of the laborers have become

farmers in their own right.

During tlm first Korld Far, or a little befora that, when

I began planting an,eleven l~undredacre vineyd nasr L i w s t o n ,

Merced County as a source of s u p p b for our packing business,

the A m y and Navy we* taking i'am help wi tbut discrimination, . .

and it w a s desperately hard even t o keep superintendents and

foremen, l e t alone farm labor.

1 telephoned Dean Van Noman of the Davis Farm Sahool

asking if he could arrange t o get some of his students to work

on our vineyard d u r i r g the sunxer nbdch was co3ing. Iie said

. . . txoet o f t . hhad sip&cl up alreaej for other jobs, but I . , . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. ' . .. . . . . . . . . . . . mi,?ht. =oms

. up .&q b'xk t6 tho stu.69nta if I -tad, and he ". ' .

. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . ... ..-- . . .

. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . .- . . . . .

. wotrld get them':$Eet~~arfor,t,ht3. . . ' . - . : -. p l q o s e . I d i d so; I-gave . " . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . .. .. . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . .. . . . .

. . .. . . . . . , . . . . . . .

BANCROFT LIBRARY

them the beet ta lk I ' hex !lox Sccaust, rre iqero despera.t;ely in

need of holp. Tbe vineyard nas young, the dr ies just planted,

I the puqing plants not y e t ready to operate, ant: prs b&d to

1 get water on the vines, of i&Lch L\ero =ere s i x hundred md 1

fifty thusand, just as quickly as possible.

The ne& day b a n V a n :kmzn tclephor~edthat tlvclvo of

the boys would come. AfMr they had k e n on the vineyard a

week or so, I nade o m or' ~ g 'weekly inopection +xipa to the

vineyard and asked 3ho superintendect, ~ h owas not a college-

bred WAR, how &the college boy6 wore getting along. Ee said,

w i t h a good b i t of hesitation, W e l l , I tlxink they' l l do."

The next woek, on ~r;rnoxt visit, I ask& hln again the

sane qacstion. he said, HI guess they'31beV ~ l l , ~ ' all

right. *

One of them took ECI aside t t ~ tevonin;: and asked if he

~ i g h task a questfon. I ngrood, of course, to h i s doing so.

Ue aaid, "You knuw, you M k e d to us at Davis about d o b g

whatever kind of work was' required, but you empb~iecdthe matter

of irrigation. I donft mind t e l l i n g you that none of UB 8t.qed

all night studying evclr;.thing about irrigation that we'd

evar learned so tbt wo could carry on that work here. And --instead o f irrigating, no h e n put to being dry sti=b

in r o w s tkme-quarbrs of a aile long, hosing every inch of

, the nay and then hoeing our nq*back, in the hct sun. Ye're

.not q ~ i t t s r c ,k ~ twe would l i k e to know what k t ' s all 8hut.n . . . . . . . .

Characteristic of studonb. . :' . ..:.. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . , ..: . .. .. . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . - . . . . . . .>. .

' , . . .. . . .. : . . .

.. . . . . . . I told t h that they &rt . . in i i'iurbery w h i l enorking . . -. . , . ' : . . . . . . . .. . . . . , ..

. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . .. the machinery for the pumping plants rub being obtained and : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . .

installed. That this nursery was necessary in order to furnish

replants for. missing vines the coming sprhg. From then on

the boys went at it with a vim.

A week or tm later I asked the superfntendent how the

college boys wre getting on. rWISp,n he said, "They're the

best men on the placeon

I asked, "What are they doing?"

nV(hy,tt he said, "~hey're on irrigation and they're using

their heads to save their feet in guiding the water around

I thought this little story might be characteristic of

college boys; . .

Several years after, I tried t o get one of these boy8

ae a foreman, but he ~ f b l sf nterested f n dairy husbandry so I

couldh't get him. Eleven out of the twelve made good, aa

good farm hands, althoueh most of them were froan the c i t i e s

G i l b r Did you ever have any labor troubles on the vineyardel

Wuttingr Nothing of any consequence. We did not join certain employer

organizations, I non' t name namesJ whose polioies I didn' t like.

We trfed t o be friendly wlth our.labs?, just asrn did wtth

our customers an3 with our labor in the plant. We never had

a strike in the plant except one for about tan Icinutea and

we never had a strike on the vineyards.

During World War 11, far inst&ce, we never lacked a

neighbors were una.I.de t o harvest par t s of their crope for lack

of labor, And the government was bringing in some forty

thousand blexicans from Xexico t o harvest the crops.

Oilbt But you had no traubSe,..

Nuttingt Ve had no problems pr'natever and were even able t o lend' =me of

our laborers t o neighbors par t of the time t o help them out.

GSU id you paa~.higher than the going wage?t

Nutting: Wa paid the going wage absolutely and nothing m e , The only

&a thing I did during the war was t o send the superintendent

of the vineyards, a white man who was thoroughly m a t h e t i c

w i t h r q ~ideas on those things, and the Mexican labor boss whom we '

employed during the harvest season because he speaks the

language and know3 the men. ,we sent then to Southern California

t o visit the various Mexicans in their hames, They had their

own homes down there and worked i n the oranges and other prodwta .-

and could get just as lnuch money d m there as they could from us,

But t h i s little h a t ach , visiting them in fib* h-8,

reminding them tkt we counted &- them as usual, that they were

1 . . He had quarters no b e t t e r than anybody else, but Wor0uc:hl.y

satcisfactory t o then, For exaqle, on one of our vinoyarda

every single familg except one out of one hundred and f i f t y

ar sixty people came a l l those years during the war and worked.

! Gilb t You didntt use much white Amorican labor? I I

! I Nuttingr Not on the harvesting. 1

BANCRDFT LlERARY

Oflba During the 193018 did you have the problems that the citrua

growers did with milat t l ~ e ycalled the nOkiesw?

Nutting: There were marrp "Okiesn anduArkiesw in t'he Valley and also

what they called nnationals,* the Mexicans brought in by .Ule

government Ne never employsd anjr of the nnati~nala;~we

didn't have to, We had so- ten or twelve vineyards and on

some of the small vineyards we had one or two l~Okies,nbut

they were satisfactory,

A good deal depends on how you treat farm help. They

are just as human aa anybody else.

af lbt What group af markers did you prefer? The Oriental worker

or tho IJexicanm k e r ?

Nutting; We had very l i t t le experience w i t h the Oriental worker. The

Mexican is the best for our purpose, except for the supervisory

position. We have white men far that, of course.

Gilb: Did you use labar contractors t o get your labor?

Nuttingt No. We had one Hexican man who used to work for us who

n w om^ two hundred acres of farm hinself , as a labor boss

'duringthe horveat season because.it was easier ' to deal through

him than to deal through a M t e man wha didn't speak'the

IRRIGATIONj THE Amcm IRRIGATION DIaTICT

Oilbt Did you take an interest i n the Central Valley Project?

Nuttingt No, that was subsequent.

Qilbr Some of the early agitation f o r the Central Valley Project

was going on i n the 1920'8.

I didn't rea l ize that it waa as early as that.''.'..'"

G i l b a Vould you have been for i t ?

Nuttingt I may have fargotten it. That question is hard to an8wer.

depends on what was k n m a t the tima and what the project,

as projected, was at the time.

Gilba Aa a vinayardist, didn't you need irr igat ion?

Nuttingt Pes, but w had plenty. I selected the land very carefully

*re. there was water. Even a t Delano, where water was

very scarce and @ere d m t o a three hundred foot lift,

my greateat liftwas one hundred aTld f i f t y feet, even at the

d r ies t tim.

Gilb: So you didn't have to have pu3licly developed water -tn auit

your purposes?

Nuttingt No.

Gilb a Xould you have been f o r the Central Valley Project?

Nuttingt For a proper project of tha t kind, I certainly would have

been. I think there were some mistakes in that project which

are not generally known but I 'm not i n a poaition t o say just . .

what they were. Some of qy fr iends who were engineers

i . . . . . .. . cri t icized cer ta in parts o f it very severely. Om, thing, they . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I ' .. . '

i . , .; . . . . . . . . , .

I . : . . . . . . :: : ' 1 'I . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . : l e f t tlu, c'ana3. nide op:a so cN1dren &'f iequentlY falling . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i .:.... . . . . . . . . . . . . .I . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . , . .:. ....! . . . . . . : . : . . . . . . . . . :. . - . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . .: : ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . 1 . . . . .b:. - . ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . :: .. . . .

. . . . : . ' . . . . ... . .i ...... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. .

. , I . .

! . . .

, . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . .

into it. Parhaps a minor matter i n one senaa, but..

I might t e l l you about one incident, though it was not

related t o the Central Valley Project. During the 1930's I

had a pieae of property i n the Berced Irri@tion Distr ict on

which there.was a sale pending and i n that connection I

learned tht the 1.lerce-d Irrigation Dis t r ic t mas unable t o pay

its debts. It was owing enarmous am0-t~~ and the purchaser

of q property was vrPrilling t o buy for that reason.

I consulted one of the attorneys for tlie District, who

inforned ms as t o the asseesed values of the property i n the

Dis t r ic t and the amount of the debt and the payments that had

been i n default and that t h e Board of Directors of tho District,

consist^ of small farmere, had been negotiating for a 'couple

of years with the bondholders' acxni?littee in vain, seeking a

reduction af .the interest rate on t h e debt and had given up

in despair.

I told him t h a t i n view of the values he had given, the

Dis t r ic t should be seeking to have the debt cut i n two8 not

simp1.j t o have the interest reduced. This was i n the deptha

of the depression in the '30'8. He told me that if I could

show the Distr ict how to do a thing of that kind, there waa

nothing in the m r l d the District would not do for ne. I

took that with a large grain of salt, but it looked like an

interesting piece of work so I undertook t o show the District

hon t o reorganize and cut d m its debt. I took it up as a

1.

'sat ter of public interest, although my o m personal lntereata

in the &!strict were very emdl ihdeeb.

A s 8 result of three years' works I succeeded in reduaing

the debt from seventeen millions five h e e d thousand dollars

t o nine million dollars.

Firat, I founcl a real estate broker of ?3erc& who had lived

there many years and mas v e q well k n m and who knew everybody ard

fi whom everfbod;p !md corJldence$ nazely, J. S. Cone, aa a

representative in o r ~ a n i e i qthe District for the purpose & I

getting the debt .dmn, I also interested t xo high caliber resi-

dents of Weoao who had large interests in the district to

cane up frum Fresno and act with me in the matter. They

were 87El.o Bmefl & Ward 'liinturn. W i t h these two genthmn

and myself as the nucleus and thrmgh the efforts on the

wound by tdr. Coac and by o rnQnmQn3erof the o f f i c ia l Board of

Direct,ma of the Distzict, ore brougl~tabout a high devee of

cooperation bettreen ourselves and ths official Board of

Dbectora, Tie caused mofficial elections to be held

throughout the District at which a committee of 18 was

elected as an advisarg body to the Board of Directors of the

District, tznd the Board of Directors agreed t o let M

praciiicall;; run the negotiatioos. The edvlsozy connnitbs

then elected an executire camittee consisting of the two

gentlemn frccn Fresno, qme3fs Cone, and one or tw others, I

so h t w controlled the negotiations from then on, Ths

Board of Directors passed a reso1.ution approgiating or :

proIilleing t o ap?ropriate $lO0,000 for expenses of the \ .

nsgotiations. We cawed to be elected by the Board a

negotiator t o represent the D i s t r i c t in negotiating with

the bondholdera1 c d t t e e , which had already been formd and

whioh had been acting fcr lam or three years in direct

negotiations Kfth the Board. A f t e r many month, in fact I

think several years, we succeeded i n getting a nee;otiator

agreed upon, namely, Max Thelen, of San Francisco, an

attorney.

O i l b a A very w e U lnaawn attorney*

Nuttingr 'Phe Board selected him from a Ust of three attorneys rrhcun

we had rec~mnded. And thereafter* the camittee made

arrangemnts, probably through 'Xr* Tirelen, with the University

of Califarnia tk- Dean Rutchirson to authorize a s m

t o be made by Dr. 1S. R. Benedict of the University's

agricultural de?artnent, o,P the economic condition,

productivity, and profit-nakine; poss ibi l i t ies of two or

thrso hundred tnical farms i n the District, chose11 by lot,

The subsequent study was pblishei; in1935 by the University

of CalFfarnialoCollege of A@cultwe under the t i t l e of

nThe Merced Irrigation Districtem This survey, I under-

stznd, oras alnost unlquo in nature and content and served

as the basis far subsequent negotiations between the

bondholderst cormrittee and the negotiator representhg the

District. It has a l s o agreed that a nar apsa iaa l of a l l . . .

. . . . . . .

, the properties of . ihe

.D i 8 t r i c t t : y i t is, tlur fan. prope;tie- . : , . . '

. . . . . . . . . ~ . . . . . . .~. ' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .. . . . . . . . . . . .

. . I . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . should be mads, by $IraCone and a representative , the :- .:: " ,

. . . . .:, . . I. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . , .:. . I . , . . . . . .. . . : .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . , . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . , . ' . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . :. . . , . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . : .. . . .. . . . . . . ' . , ' : ' . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . .. . . , . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..... . . . . .

:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ . . . . . . . . . . .

. .:. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . - . . . : . . . . . . , . . .

bondholders* codttee. This was done, and with his report,

and Kith Dr. Benedfct'c report, xe had an excellent factual

node of presenting the matter t o the svbsequent meetings af

negotiator and bondholders' conunittee 7strich took place at my

club in San Frsu~ciscounder n ~ yohaimamhip over a p l o d

of w=~s.

O i l b t I kno*c that the California Packing Corporationca Fancher

Eanch mas in Xerced county. aid they ham any connection

with these activities?

Ihrttingc Prfor to my intervening in "V hstter in Eerced, the Board

of Directors had far 4x0 three years been negotiating w t t h

the bondholders, endeavoring to reduce the interest rate on

the bonds, but had met with no success. During all of that

t h e , I understand that California Packing corporation and

Crocker Huffman Company, both large landholders in the

District, had opposed the project. Each of 'them, I believe,

cmned mme of the bomb and Prere looking their hteresta

as bondholders. X knew both of them very well In San

Franc-lsco and was able t o -Indurn them . to change their

attitude. Gilbt You man both tllese firms?

Rutting: Both these firms, corparationa.

G i l b r A t Gal-Pac, w i t h whom did you work to change their attitude?

N u t t i n g : The president of the corporation, who was an intimate

. . friend, Leonard 3ood, an3 i n Crockerr Huffman Coqmy, I

don't reinember whoan I negotiated ooith, but I am very w e l l

knmat their bank.

Oflba Leonard Wood was an intimate friend of yours?

Nutting: Yes. The members of the Board, you see# had no connections

with the big c i t i e s a t all. They came up here as mere

famez-8.

The merrtbers of th5 Board of Directors were small

famars, om member be* an engineer who had beconre a

farmer and through vhan I worked and obtained action by the

Boad of Directors in mang instances. The California

Padking Corporation umed a b r g e orclwd of about 5800

acres in the District; I m e d about UOO acres just outside

the District; and the ~ F Onen we brought up from Fresno had

large land,loldings, the munt of which I don't reme&er.

Oilbt You yourself didn't have any large personal interests i n the

D b t r l s t ?

Xuttingr My place waa just outside the District, but I nas w l l known

on that account, you see; it helped a l i t t le bit.

Gilb a Y o u did this ELEL as a p b l i c service then.

Nuttinga Yes, I had only one fanu, a very poor one, of 170 acres,

which I sifterwards sold far only $17,000, which is pretty

a x d l compared t o the large holdings. '

Nutting: Not much. Gratitude i a t5e lively expectation of favors t o

Cbae, you know, as anyone who has triad t o do anything ae a

publia service knows, On the contrary, I nas the object of

suspicion, During the period prc =re tzyfng t o put over the

elections, get them carried out, the then secretary of the

State Assooiatfon of Irrigation Distriats did h b best t o

question qy motives, circulating a~mngthe grmra and

-8, and kied N s best to defeat our purposes, but mu3

0ilb.a a t kind af motives did he.think you ha83

Nutting: He i s repcded t o have spent 8everd dsye a t FYesno t xybg

to get something on m. He wanad the p m himself w h b h

this movement would give, and he got nothing on me appwently,

but cane back and Lnsimzated all over the District HWhat do

you suppose his motives can beP

~ u t t i n g t ' I was represented to 'be a representative of the big

corporatiom and Grinding nonoplies of al l )&Ids.

Q i l b r M c h ason' t the case.

'Muttingt No. 1 did not represent anybody but myself ns a ~ s o n a l

matter pure and simple.

Qilb: It's odd that the farmers would have been hostile, although

it is easy t o oee wl-q the bondholders would.

Nutting: Tho farmers can be mioled easily by anyorus who ha8 t it le

secretary of the Irrigation District.

Ctilbt D l d you ever do any other*.

ESuttingt This secretary, by the w, is dead noso.

Gilb t . ,..irrigation district work?

kuttingr No. I have a l o t of material which I am giving to the

Bancroft Library which ahms the legal e!.tuation and largely

the econaoaio situstion of a l l the irr igation districts of

the &te as of that tine. I 'm not personally too familiar

. with it, but there toere same thirty-three Irrigation distric%a

at that time. A m a t r3ajority of %hemwere bankrupt or at

least could not pw their obligatione, and the Xerced

District. ma one of t l ~ elargest in terms of acreage and I

think perhaps in tern of population. The repart of

Dr. Benedlat I s practically unfquej it's a w e & which haa

never been handled in the aane way so far aa I: know, sort of

a swl.in&of tb ferms as t o their economic condition, the

prmpect of their being able t o pay anything on the bonds

after Paying the ac%ualcosta of farndng, in&- the

uater taxes.

Under the i rr igation d i s t r i c t l a w at that time, the

Board d Directurs oras ccxpelled t o add to the asseamant

eadh year a31 unpaid taxas of tb pevtous year, and aa no

property could b e sold durirg the depreosion for lack of

b-r~, the D i s t r i u t o~aaaccumulating gradually all the

property in the District including the c i ty of Merced, a . . , , . .

city of 7 or 3,030 pop19 at that Lie, srr3 the 2roperty

of cone 25,979 fai-a; and d l of the @O,OCK) awes of the

District m a inevitably going bs armed by the DiuSr i c t

wlthin thee yeam. O4ng to the provision af the law, the

tax ratc m e increzsine ant,onatiw1f.y from par to yew. If

v a s 33 per $103 of assesned val~iatior~st 3 % ~tine I

intervened; and according to the District18 secretary it

would ineviAablybe $32 per $l@O of as~iessedvaluation within

th-ee year8 from that time. The assessed vduation at the I

the m s a ? p r e t o l j ~equal t o t.he actual value3 so that a

tox of $32 mule! inevitabLy result in forfeiture of a l l

pro;xrty t o the District, i n c l u ~ i n gCal-Tacle orcf-wd, the

City of B!orcod, m d everything else.

Oflb r Well, Col-Pnc ons paying its taxes, xaon't it?

Nutting: men I c;;l2ed t?p the president of Cdifornia Packing

Ccrpmation early in these neg~tiatioils to ld bin briefly

. about the r;ituatiol?and hov they shoulc! get in line witk us I and get the debt d m , the reply was, *Tiell, we ought to pay

our taxeo, ~ i l g h t n t twe?" I said, "Do you lolow that you're

going t o lose that b,?QD-acre orchard within three years I absolutely without a doubt unlass you act now? I

Qilb r You mean they weren't paring tbelir t a ~ 9 8 ?

Nuttiqr They were p a e , but the rate psaa cuniulative. You see, it I was $8 th i s year, it RlOUld be aboiit $16 the next, and then I

' . . the noxt ye,w it would be about $323 nobody could that. - ' , ' : . ,. . ; .. . . . . . .

. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,.: . .

. . . . . . . ... . . . . 0ilb8 . YOU set such TWVO~OUS E&co~; ' I should a n k - . . . . . . .. pzecdent :: .: : . . . . . . . . . .

. : . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... , . . . . . . . . . , : . .:.. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . i . . -... . . . . . - . . . :....... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . ' _ . I .. - ..

. .' . . . ; . . .: . . . .. . . . . . . ,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. , . . . . . . . . .- . . . . . . . : . . . . . ... , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , : . .

. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . < . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . : . . . . 1. . . . . . . . . ... . . ' .. . . . . . .. . . . . . .

. . . . . , . . . , : , .:

other w i g a t i o n districts would want to follow suit.

Nutting: I don' t know about Ymtj I waa busy wlth qy own affairs,

after giving so much the to Merced. It took us quite a

number of years to bring t h b matter through.

- -

0

F.P., ~ J ' T T I M r G!%3CiAL RETIRBF24T FRCC RAISIId XSIT33SS AFTER 1935

G i l b: M d the hew federal and state lawn wh3.ch gradually came into

effect in the raisin inrfus.try a.ffact your induatry In any way?

Were t h y beneficial or hamhrl?

lluttingr I don't think they had any affect. 118 ceased ths packing

bursinens in1935. I sold it.

Oilbt did yon sel l out in 1985t

Hutting; Wscauae 1 was getting old and I wanted t o get r id o f it.

U b a Was it profitable a t that t h e ?

&?%tirig: ?lo, in the fb0 it was not, generally speaking. I had had

to foreclose on a number of vineyards and take over vineyards on

which we had loaned half as much money per acre as the tanka were

lending at the tine we made the loans. And s t i l l the debbn,

cans to r;ze and urged me to take the vineyards of f their hands

beoause they couldnlt even finance the farming on them. So

I tmk them and canceller! the unpaid portion o f the debt

a& took the vineyards back. It took f i fty thousand dollars

just to farm the vineyards. X didn't have capital enough,

really, to comfortably run the packing and the farming btlslness.

Gab; So you just sold the packing only.

Nuttlng: I sold out j u s t t\e packing. T h a t was the time when I was

going to retire and g e t into somtsthing I liked batter than

bwinees. It was r i g h t in th middle of the deproasion and

I had t o go to work axxi proanally a o l l all theae vineyard8

because the brokers couldn't sol1 famu a t this time. Thep

said they couldn't. And instead of rotiring I mrked harder

than I ever had in n ~ yl i f e f a r about f i f t een years on t h a t job.

Gilb t To whom did you sell the packing plant?

Nut thgt Rosenkerg Brothers and Compw, a packer f r o m San Francisco.

And 1% sold d l the vineyard^, & the way, when the depression

had come on, I had s i x hundred thousand dollars of debt t o pay,

plenty t o pay it with, but they were not l iquid mas t s , The

merchandise orouldn~ t sell, the vineyards mouldn I t s e l l , and I

had t o work harder than ever before instead o f taking l i f e

easy from then on, ar I had contemplated,

Oilb r How many acres do you own now?

Nuttingt Nothing, All I m now are securi t ies , I think a t seventy-

eight I ought to be in good l iquid condition.

Oilb t You am a corporation lawyer, Were many of your c l i en t s in '

the raisin businees a f t e r the 1 9 5 0 ~ a t

Iiuttingt Yes, a f t e r 1911 I pret ty nearly oonfined my buainesa to the

corporations I 've mentioned r the Natiord Properties Compaqy,

the Boston Raisin Cornpaw, the Anierican Vineyard Investment

Campany, and the Ameriaan Vineyard ~ompaqy), One of then aaa

operating i n forty-eight s t a t e s and t e r r i to r i e s and Canada)

and t h a t involved a l o t of lega l busheas, And then l e g a l

business on behalf of a large part of the r a i s i n induetrg

took a l o t of qy time.

For awhile after I bought the business i n 1911, I

retained a couple of lawyers to c a m on law practise, I

thought I 'd aell the r a i s i n hsiness in a year o r two and uom

back i n t o practice, Thatla what I wanted t o do, but It

became so profitable and the &ome tax o w on than and 1

thoilght X couldnft afford to se l l , so I stayed w i t h it until

it 'pt into the depression. Then X couldn't f i n d a bwer for

the business for a long time.

Oilb r During the timo you were in tb packing businesss d i d you

carry on a law practice?

Nuttingr No, I practically gava it up except for the f i r a t year or

twos excepthg for t h e e companies.

Nutting!

CALfFORNIA PRO-RATE lURKETINa ACT

After I went out o f tbet packing bu~Lwsa , I par t ic ipa ted in

aome 1 i t i g a t i ~ n . w h i c hwse vezy imjmrtant to the raisin industrg,

During the depress-bn o f the 193018, California agr icu l ture w a s

i n a desperate state, California i e some two o r three t b o u d

mUsa f k m its principal marketa and i n general it producsu

semi-luxuries, fruits, R U ~ S , and 80 on, ra ther than the

fundamentally necessarg producte, For these reasons, tb6 marketa

were excstedingly bad,ad desperate measures seemed to be

necessary in order to help t h e farmer,

The l eg i s l a tu re enaated w h a t was eel ledthe Pro-rate Lam,

under which, i f a ce r t a in perusntage of the gmwers of a certain

farm comnodity should p e t i t i o n the head of the AgricultarPS

Department of t h e state govermaent, then he would c a l l an

e lec t ion among the growere o f t h a t commodity and i f on such

an e lect ion a certain percentage of tha p w e r a voted In favor

of it, he mould then appoint a committee which under the lar

would have control o f a l l of the amps of t ha t commoditp

produced i n the s t a t e o f California, including the crops o f

those growers who had not voted o r who had voted against the

T h i s was a most arbi- t rary and monopoliatio law, quite

oontraq t o my pawonal poeitfon i n five years of l i t i g a t i o n

against the Sun-Maid under the Federal ant i - t ruet Inr. But

under the extremely d i f f i c u l t and dangerow conditions of t h e

depression;' I ooncluded tha t the Pro-rate Act kould bs.a . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . .. . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .

. . . . . . des i rab l i thing for ~ l e as w e l l m'f o r tbs.. . . . . - - i. . . :. . . . .. . . . . . . b t e of ~ a ~ i f o m i a . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .:. .. . . . .. . . . ., .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . ., . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . .. '. . . . .:. ,. . . .. . .. , . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ., . . ... . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . . ... . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . ,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .. .. . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

BANCKOFT LIBRARY

farmers.

A t t h i s the, or about this time, farmers i n the Midwest

were rioting, preventing sheriffs from levying execiution on

farms and thirt eort or' thing. It mm a dangerous situation,

O n e of the Pro-rate districts was involved i n l i t igat ion

over the constitutionality of the law, and I asked the a t to rney

t o l e t me look aver the record in that case, I was much

eurprised t o find that the attorneys for t he district and the

Attarney-dleneralta office had aver loo^ the significance of

c e W agrioultmd l e a s l a t i o n vhiuh had been enact& ten

pars before and which opened up certain new aspect8 of the

federal comitutianal. provision regarding in ters ta te camerce.

The Pro-rate Ipsrrr rras being attacked as unconstitutional

bocatree a h x t all o f each arop affected was produced expressly

for intarstate cmerce and it was contended that therefare the

federal eavernnent had exdusipe right t o regulate their sale

and disposition.

I had no wrsanal interest i n aqy of the l i t igated matters,

bu% it 8ee;aed t o be a matter of such v i t a l importance that I

asked permlesion of the Attomey&eneral~soffice and of the

office of the attarmy8 for the Pro-rate d i s t r i c t and of the

court t o f i l e a brief in the Prune case, mi~ichhad been

argued and submitted for a decision. It waa very late to

appear in the case as amicus curiae, *a friend of the court,r

but the court gave me ten days *ich I apent i n the Boalt

That p a r t i c a r case sent of f on a technicality, T h e r e

was not threethousand dollars dvnages involved and therefore

the court had no jur isdict ion,

Seven o r eight other cases were pending which involved

the const i t&tional i ty of this act, including one r a i s i n

industry caee a t Fresno i n the United States Dist r ic t Court.

Three judges were s i t t i n g i n this case because it involved

the const i tut ional i ty o f a state act, and the point I raised

was argued by the attorneys, but I: was so busy negotiating a

sale for one hundred and eighty thowand dollar8 f o r a piece

of property t h a t I could not afford to arcrue the case agrself,

much as I wanted to do so, One of the three judges decided

I n our favor on that point;, but the other two followed the

l i n e of reasoning asual i n in t e r s t a t e colarnercs cases.

Gilbt And what was your point?

Nuttingt The Federal Wrketing Act anacted soma ten years previowly

provided t h a t t h s Secretary of Agriculture might, i f he

found cer ta in conditions to exist , organize under t h a t

a c t the growers of any par t icu lar farm aomodity,

And inpliadly, w e argued, it authorized him t o decline to

organize the growers and,thereby leaye it t o the local ,

state government to enaat a Pro-Rate law such a8

California's for the a-qreas purpose of doing the eame

thing which might have besn done under the Federal

Bfarketing Aot,

.Oilbt Pour argument then oras that b.: its failure t o pat,

the Federal Goremuant gave implici t sanction toward

s t a t e act-ion.

Nuttingr Yes.

The case went d i rec t ly t o the United States Supreme Court¶

since it involwd the conetitutionality of a s t a t e law, and

t h r e f was again unable t o attend and argue the case. The

point was argued and the case submitted f o r decision. The

court ordered a reagument of the case and did a most unusual

thing: it especially directed the counselst a t ten t ion to tbe

point I had raised and t o a couple of other points and asked

the Sol ic i tor General of the United State8 t o appear i n the

case and argue tha t point. The case wm reargued and again

submitted and the decision came down sustaining this point,

pract ical ly retrersing tne d e c i ~ i o n si n a l l these six o r eight

other cases, and upholding the const i tut ional i ty of the Pro-

rate Aot of C ~ I l f a r n i a ~

The Suprem Court decision was in the case of B r a vs.

Porter, or Porter vs, Brm, Porter being the Sta te -Market ' .

Commiaaioner a t the time.

. You laight be interested i n this , Brown, who was the

defendant in the case and ma being prosecuted cr-

under thia. act, was a former employee of mine. He used t o be

my chief buyer a t Fresno. H e told me tha t by f ight ing the act,

he thought he mas f oUowing i n my footsteps* but f to ld him t h a t

conditions were entirely different i n the 1939,s from what t h q

had 'been earl ier . I thought condition8 m warranted the

enactment of the Pro-rate Act , even though it was monopolisticm

I think there was a State Karkoting Act alsom . - :

Was it possible that

as a packer?

BANCROFT L I B R A R Y

PARTIAL INDEX TO Fa P. IJUTTING MAkNSCRIYT

American Seedless Raisin Compaqy ?i&?l

Benedict, M. R. (DS.) ... 78-82 . . . . . . . ',

California Packing corpcvition. (calpa'c), 45-40; 79'&ol 83 . . . . . ' . . . . .. .. .

C a l i f e a i a Pro-Rate XarketiG A&: . . ' ~88-92 . . . . . . . . . .

. .. . . . , . ., . . . .

. 8 . . .cone, J . 8. .

.

, . .. . . 7 7 - 7 ~. -; ,

Creech, Harry 5'447 -

hock& H u f f m a n Company 79-80

GIPfen, Wylfe 353 40; 45-463 51-53; 5941

Koarney, Id. Theodore

Merced Irrigation District

N & r r i t t , Ralph

Mnturn, Ward

Nutting, W. R.

Raisin G r m h g 1-92

Rosenbcrg Brothers and Conpaqy 86 . .

R C ~ U ,Milo - - 77

Sherroan A c t 32-51