An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
-
Upload
deepesh-mudgal -
Category
Documents
-
view
219 -
download
0
Transcript of An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
-
7/31/2019 An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
1/9
Congress government 'killed' the Bofors case:Arun Jaitley
Karan Thapar,CNN-IBN
5inShareShare on Tumblr
Click to play video
New Delhi: BJP leader Arun Jaitley said that the NDA government made all efforts to bring
the guilty to book in the Bofors scam and alleged that successive Congress-led
governments or those supported by that party tried to "kill" the case.
Speaking to Karan Thapar on Devil's advocate, he said that during the NDA regime from
1998 to 2004, the Bofors case was taken to its "logical conclusion" and the CBI, which was
probing it, acted independently of the government.
Here is the full transcript of the interview:
Karan Thapar:Hello and welcome to Devil's Advocate. With the Bofors controversy back in
the news, how does the BJP face up to the questions it must answer. That's the key issue I
should explore today with the Leader of the Opposition in Rajya Sabha, Arun Jaitley.
Mr Jaitley, your colleague in the Lok Sabha, Jaswant Singh has demanded a judicial
commission into the Bofors affair. Is this the official position of the BJP?
Arun Jaitley:Well, Mr Jaswant Singh is a very senior man and when he says something he
says it on authority and party fully agrees with him. The real intention being whether you
have a full debate or have committee or commission, should not after 25 years of the
disclosure. The Indian society knows, that not withstanding the fact that the entire truth
came out, in terms of law we are unable to prosecute the concerned people. Therefore I
think since, this was the terrible chapter in history where you had corruption at a very high
level and yet you are a failure of the system, at least we need to know what went wrong.
http://ibnlive.in.com/byline/Karan-Thapar.htmlhttp://ibnlive.in.com/byline/Karan-Thapar.htmlhttp://ibnlive.in.com/agency/CNN-IBN.htmlhttp://ibnlive.in.com/agency/CNN-IBN.htmlhttp://www.tumblr.com/share/link?url=http%3A%2F%2Fibnlive.in.com%2Fnews%2Fcongress-govt-killed-the-bofors-case-arun-jaitley%2F253244-37-64.html&name=Congress%20government%20%27killed%27%20the%20Bofors%20case:%20Arun%20Jaitley&description=BJP%20leader%20Arun%20Jaitley%20said%20that%20the%20NDA%20government%20made%20all%20efforts%20to%20bring%20the%20guilty%20to%20book%20in%20the%20Bofors%20scam%20and%20alleged%20that%20successive%20Congress-led%20governments%20or%20those%20supported%20by%20that%20party%20tried%20to%20%27kill%27%20the%20case.http://ibnlive.in.com/printpage.php?id=253244§ion_id=37http://ibnlive.in.com/agency/CNN-IBN.htmlhttp://www.tumblr.com/share/link?url=http%3A%2F%2Fibnlive.in.com%2Fnews%2Fcongress-govt-killed-the-bofors-case-arun-jaitley%2F253244-37-64.html&name=Congress%20government%20%27killed%27%20the%20Bofors%20case:%20Arun%20Jaitley&description=BJP%20leader%20Arun%20Jaitley%20said%20that%20the%20NDA%20government%20made%20all%20efforts%20to%20bring%20the%20guilty%20to%20book%20in%20the%20Bofors%20scam%20and%20alleged%20that%20successive%20Congress-led%20governments%20or%20those%20supported%20by%20that%20party%20tried%20to%20%27kill%27%20the%20case.http://ibnlive.in.com/byline/Karan-Thapar.html -
7/31/2019 An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
2/9
Karan Thapar:But let me put to you, as a former Law Minister, do you believe a judicial
commission is a fitting and the appropriate way of enquiring into a matter, that the High
Court has closed?
Arun Jaitley: Well there are possible argument that there will be difficulty in that, I quite
concede to you on that. But at the same time you call it a committee, you call it aParliamentary committee, you call it an administrative committee of the government. But
then must be a fair assessment of what went wrong, and I think this was the intention
behind what Jaswant Singh suggested.
Karan Thapar:In other words what we need, is an enquiry that shows where lapse are
made. And if possible also point up the responsibility for those lapse on individuals or on
goofs?.
Arun Jaitley:And I think it is more important that this sad chapter of history, at least the
truth must be distort some where.
Karan Thapar:The important thing is to get to the truth?Arun Jaitley:I think that's the pursuit of truth is most important aspect.
Karan Thapar:Alright in getting at the truth. Let's begun with Sonia Gandhi, Sten Lindstrom,
the whistleblower has said "Sonia Gandhi must be questioned, I know what I am saying."
Do you agree with him?
Arun Jaitley:Well, he must be having some material on basis, he said so, but as far as the
Indian system is concerned, the Indian system proceeds on the basis that when
investigations are in progress, investigator reach a particular conclusion, facts come before
them. If any person is in position of information which can help in investigation to find out
the truth, they are entitled to question that person.
Karan Thapar:In your eyes, is Sonia Gandhi in that position? Are we entitled to question
her?
Arun Jaitley: I would say, it would entirely depend on the kind of information that the CBI
had, which the CBI case diaries and record would disclose. It would really depend on that
and the crucial question would be, in swinging the contract where did Mr Quattrocchi draw
his influence from?
Karan Thapar:Did that influence come from Sonia Gandhi? That's a critical question.
Arun Jaitley:I think, it is the record of the CBI and the nature of the investigation that would
answer that question.
Karan Thapar:Your colleague is General Secretary of the party, he is the Chief
Spokesperson of the BJP, Ravi Shankar Prasad has gone on record to say Sonia Gandhi
has a lot of explaining to do. If she has explaining to do...
Arun Jaitley:Why Ravi Shankar, even I have also said this in the past.
Karan Thapar:If you said it and standby, then does she need to be questioned?
-
7/31/2019 An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
3/9
Arun Jaitley: I have said it in the past also. There is one aspect making to the state to the
media and the reason for that is, where did Mr Quattrocchi draw his influence. If you go
though the fact which have come out, is now almost established on record, available with
the CBI, obviously he was successful in swinging the contract, he was not an official
middleman, he got paid. Why did he get paid and where did he draw his influence from?Somebody has to answer that question.
Karan Thapar:Absolutely and that somebody as you are suggesting is Sonia Gandhi. But
the point is this, from 1998 to 2004 the 6 years of the BJP was in power, the CBI didn't
make any afford whatsoever to question?
Arun Jaitley: Your question is based on complete ignorance. If CBI made substantial
progress, it was made during two periods.
Karan Thapar:But they didn't question her, that's the point?
Arun Jaitley:Questioning her is one aspect, but the CBI in establishing the truth made huge
progress and I owe to you since you asked this question, to tell you what progress the CBImade.
Karan Thapar:But the question I asked you is that in the 6 years when you were in power,
the CBI, didn't question her once, they made no effort to do so.
Arun Jaitley: That the discretion CBI has to exercise, if they have the material to question
they would question, they don't have material, they don't.
Karan Thapar:Can I quote Sten Lindstrom? He said "it can't be the coincidence that
Quattrocchi gets the money in this way, there must be some connection. She can explain it
somewhere and in someway it will be very helpful."
Arun Jaitley:There is a common sense presumption that Quattrocchi drove strength from
some place, that he got the money in the contract where he was not the middleman. But the
record and diaries of the CBI will show, if CBI reached a particular conclusion on basis of
which they need to cross examine somebody or not, that is the question CBI better suited to
to answer.
Karan Thapar:Just a moment, you either saying CBI is failed to do what they should have
done? Or they didn't reach the position where they need it to do it.
Arun Jaitley:Well I am not aware of the records so I am not going to speculate that.
Karan Thapar:Expect for the fact, that you began by saying, you agree with the Ravi
Shankar Prasad that she has explaining to do. If she has explaining to do, she should have
been questioned, if she wasn't questioned...
Arun Jaitley:Well, it's an explaining where the entire leadership of the Congress has to do,
as to where and why did Quattrocchi draw this influence from in order to swing the contract.
We are talking in terms of legally admissible evidence, you can't ask me a question which
really CBI should be answering.
-
7/31/2019 An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
4/9
Karan Thapar:No, I am asking a different issue. I am saying if there is a reason to question
her and she wasn't questioned, that's their addiction. And she wasn't questioned because
there is no case against her, the you can't say she has explaining to do.
Arun Jaitley: It's a very good question you are asking to me, which is the question you
should ask to CBI not me.Karan Thapar:I tell you why I asked it because many people say that there was a secret
understating between the BJP and Congress, not to question Sonia Gandhi.
Arun Jaitley:I think it is complete rubbish, there is no question to that effect. The CBI had
full freedom during NDA period, to proceed with the case in the manner they considered the
best and they did their job.
Karan Thapar:I tell you why I raised this question because George Fernandes told this
channel on the March 11, 2007, that he wanted to probe Bofors and he was told by Mr
Vajpayee not to do so. His exact words were "Vajpayee told me not to touch this."
Arun Jaitley:Well according to me the investigation was not with the Defence Ministry, theinvestigation was with the CBI. The CBI not only and now I use this opportunity to answer
the question, you told me you asked me. When in 1998 Mr Vajpayee became the Prime
Minister, you had an FIR, you had Letter Rogatory, you had details of accounts coming in,
you had documents. The CBI concluded the entire investigation. In 1999 the CBI files the
chargesheet, the accused were prosecuted, charges were farmed in court. Therefore the
entire due process of the law was being carried out and therefore it is not for a minister, its
for the CBI to investigate the case and CBI was doing it.
Karan Thapar:Except for the fact that you were Law Minister for much of this time. And
except for the fact that one critical person who should not be questioned, was never
questioned. Let me again quote Sten Lindstrom, he says "it has always amazed and it
continues to..."
Arun Jaitley:I don't think we in India makes statement to that effect where politicians
decide who CBI should question.
Karan Thapar:Just a moment, let me finish quote of Sten Lindstrom, he says "it is always
amazed and it continues to amaze me as to why Indian investigators didn't take obvious
step of questioning her."
Arun Jaitley:Obviously I think Mr Lindstrom has lot of information on the basis of he says
so. If that information is available with the CBI, he is probably right. But that is the question
which has to be addressed to them.
Karan Thapar:A second aberration, in the way which BJP handles Bofors, arise is directly
you said It something in the Parliament this Thursday. You said and I quite "in 2004 one
judgment said no case is made out, it wasn't even appealed against and we gave the whole
burial to the case". But infact the government that should have appealed and refused to do
so, was your and you were Law Minister.
-
7/31/2019 An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
5/9
Arun Jaitley:Well I think lets be correct the dates.
Karan Thapar:The date is February 4, 2004
Arun Jaitley:Yes, I know. The CBI got the copy of the judgment, the CBI processed the
copy, the CBI recommended the filing of the appeal, and the government law officers
advised them to file the appeal. The CBI because of the court vacations and the pendingelections, was to file an appeal, the government changed and the new government overrule
the opinion and said appeal should not be not be made.
Karan Thapar:Just a moment, The Delhi High Court judgment of February 4, 2004, it had to
be appeal begun within 90 days or it could be technically time bar. Those 90 days lapsed
on May 4 and you were in power till after the May 28, it was your responsibility to do so.
Arun Jaitley:You are absolutely mistaken, its 90 days when you obtained the copy of the
judgment and therefore the limitation was expired sometime in the month of June. The CBI
prepared it's case for an appeal, the CBI got all the opinions when the government changed
and it was the Congress government which took a decision, not to file the appeal.Karan Thapar:Are you saying to me that infact the blame for not filing the appeal rest on
the Congress not the BJP?
Arun Jaitley:Entirely because the record would show, during the NDA government the
record was entirely prepared, advices and opinion given, why that incorrect judgment must
appealed again.
Karan Thapar:I tell you two reason, why the blame lies with an not the Congress. First of
all, even if you are correct and saying the 90 days period ended in June and not on the
fourth of the May 4 as I pointed out. You confined an appeal within 70 days or 60 days, you
don't really need to that
Arun Jaitley:You can file in two days.
Karan Thapar:In which case why u didn't you.
Arun Jaitley:Well it is the question that CBI processes have to go through, their entire
processes have to move the file upward, take a law officers opinion, their own legal
department opinion. Everything they did, they had till June to file an appeal which would
strictly be filed on the reopening of the court because June was vacations. The government
changed and the first act of the UPA government was, to advice the CBI not file it.
Karan Thapar:I tell you why infact there is a second reason for blaming the BJP because
you should have known, there was no way the Congress is going to appeal against a
judgment that exonerated its leader.
Arun Jaitley:We dont know we were losing the elections.
Karan Thapar:Secondly, judgment that they had used in the campaign, they tom-tom and
drum beaten the judgment. They are not going to appeal against the judgment.
Arun Jaitley: I think you question is based on very weak footings, for the simple reason you
are blaming a government which advised the filing of an appeal, as against a government
-
7/31/2019 An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
6/9
which advised not to filing the appeal. I think your anger in your questions should be
directed against those who advised against not filing the appeal.
Karan Thapar:I tell you why my anger, if you want to call it anger, actually it's not anger , its
skepticism and cynicism, is directed to you. Because Vijay Shankar speaking to rediff.com
on the August 15 ,2007 when he was CBI director said "my predecessor in the CBI andArun Jaitley created a weak case, that's why he says we were not able to proceed when it
came to Argentina and we lost it in the first court.
Arun Jaitley:Well I wrote to him when he write the statement, he called me up and said he
has been misquoted and regretted this particular statement, but that apart, it's a incorrect
statement which he regretted to me personally. As far as Argentina is concerned, let's get
the facts through, so that this smoke screen doesnt remain for you. Mr Quattrocchi
escaped to Malaysia in 1994, when information came that the beneficiary account was his,
no efforts were made to extradite him. We made an effort after 1998 to extradite.
Karan Thapar:And failed.Arun Jaitley:We failed. So we appeal to the highest court in Malaysia.
Karan Thapar:And failed.
Arun Jaitley: We didnt fail there, you are incorrect. We appeal to the highest court and he
escaped from Malaysia over the weekend, when the CBI appeal was coming on Monday for
hearing. In the weekends between Friday and Monday he escaped from Malaysia. He was
next found in 2007 in Argentina, our ambassador Mr Rath asked the Government of India
whether he should take steps to get him and send him to India. The Government of India
advised him that this process is to costly and no effort in this regard should be taken.
Karan Thapar:Expect the facts the CBI director who have quoted just now said, the reason
they failed in Argentina because you and the CBI predecessor prepared a weak case.
Arun Jaitley:Well that's factually incorrect, that CBI during Congress government which
tried to put a burial to this case. They obviously cannot blame the predecessor. You first
take a decision not to file an appeal thereafter you start telling the crown prosecutor in the
England to defreeze the account and then you say my predecessor went wrong.
Karan Thapar:Let me raise a third so called aberration in the manner in which, this time not
BJP but you personally have handled this issue. Mani Shankar Aiyar in Parliament, Chitra
Subramanian writing in Outlook magazine this week, both have said that the Letter
Rogatory prepared when you were Additional Solicitor General was shoddy. It had
handwriting all over it, it had pieces of paper stuck all over it, it has staple and Chitra
Subramanian adds that it was thrown out.
Arun Jaitley:Well the Letter Rogatory was issued by an Indian court, it is not issued my
Additional Solicitor General, these are all propaganda. After the Letter Rogatory was issued
by an Indian court, some misleading arguments were made. And you know what was the
kind of arguments was raised, why do you have a special judge in India trying this case,
-
7/31/2019 An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
7/9
why not an ordinary judge? These were the kind of objections, not realising that the CBI
cases prosecuted by the special judge. The Letter Rogatory questions were raised the CBI
answered the questions and what Mani Shankar Aiyar doesnt say, it is on basis of that
Letter Rogatory that the actually the Swiss authorities conveyed the beneficiaries of the
accounts. The five names came pursuant to that Letter Rogatory, the documents cameback pursuant to the process after the Lettr Rogatory and not withstanding the fact that the
Congress government took various steps including Mr Madhav Singh Solanki asking the
Swiss not to cooperate with India. But all the documents and the evidence came because of
that Letter Rogatory.
Karan Thapar:Alright I will grant that to you. Let's take a break and come back and pick up
on a key point that you made in your Parliamentary speech on Thursday. You said that the
time had come to introspect and secondly to try and understand how it is, that we ended up
killing the truth. Back in the moments time, see you after break.
Karan Thapar:Welcome back to Devils Advocate, in an interview with leader of theopposition in Rajya Sabha on how BJP has handled the Bofors controversy.
Arun Jaitley in Thursday on Parliament you said and I quote this is the text book illustration
of a fraud as to how to kill the pursuit to get to the truth. The central point I have been
making in part one is that, some of the fraud has happened when the BJP in power and
some time, it happened when you were Law Minister. So, do you accept that your failure to
ensure that Sonia was questioned is part of that.
Arun Jaitley:I completely reject that suggestion. You had two faces of completely non-
Congress government or government not supported by the Congress. In 1990, for three
years no FIR was registered from 87 to 90, you registered an FIR, you got the accounts
frozen in 1990, and you sent a Letter Rogatory. Thereafter in 1998 when the next
government came you filed a complete chargesheet and I can tell you, I personally seen the
charges, the documents substantially established the charges.
Karan Thapar:Can I then interrupt and put this to you, if you filed the chargesheet when
you were there in power. How come no one took the critical, essential and obviously step of
questioning Sonia Gandhi. Once again I am going to quote Sten Lindstrom, he says if you
examine the logic in the document in one hand and the direction of the cover up on the
other that is the obvious step to take.
Arun Jaitley:Well I am afraid he may well have basis to say that but the decision whom to
question is not taken by the Prime Minister or the Law Ministry. It is taken by the CBI and
therefore the CBI will do it on the basis of the evidence with the CBI has available.
Karan Thapar:The whole point I am making and I have quoted George Fernandes in
support of quoted public opinion. There was collusion between the BJP and Congress not
to question her.
-
7/31/2019 An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
8/9
Arun Jaitley:Well if you just see the kind of evidence you will realise by yourself. Evidence
number one you had a contract with AE services of Mr Quattrocchi entered in to, which
helped the contract to be swung in favour of Bofors. AE services gets the commission, the
person behind AE services is Mr Quattrocchi.
Karan Thapar:He is a Italian and he is a friend of Sonia Gandhi.Arun Jaitley:He is Italian and he allowed to escape from India when Narasimha Rao was in
power.
Karan Thapar:You are making my case for me. Why then did you not have her questioned?
Arun Jaitley:Will this is the decision on the basis of the evidence which CBI has to take.
Karan Thapar: Arun Jaitley ,no one in India believe that the CBI operate autonomously to
the extend of you blaming.
Arun Jaitley:I can tell you the CBI under NDA operated on professional line, even in Mr
Advani's cases they went without the advise of the government. They had prosecutors who
were completely independent in those cases.Karan Thapar:Why did Atal Bihari Vajpayee tell George Fernandes, don't touch Bofors.?
Arun Jaitley:Well I doubt very much because in the NDA regime Bofors was actually taken
to its logical conclusion.
Karan Thapar:This is the convener of the NDA who told to the Prime Minister.
Arun Jaitley:I dont know whether he correctly quoted or not. The facts indicate.
Karan Thapar:Not correctly quoted he said it on the camera.
Arun Jaitley:But the facts indicate to the contrary , the chargesheet is filed, people are
prosecuted, Mr Rajiv Gandhi shown in column two in the chargesheet. You are asking me
the question which is to the contrary.
Karan Thapar: The reason I am asking because the one critical lady who could have shed
light on the whole thing, who was a Italian, who was a friend of Quattrocchi, was never
questioned.
Arun Jaitley:Perhaps there were may have a need and may have not been need, it is for a
CBI to decide.
Karan Thapar:Hang on a moment, if you believe she has explaining to do which you
agreed to do in part one, the there was a need to question?
Arun Jaitley:There is a explaining which she and every Congressman has to do, Why
Quattrocchi got paid.
Karan Thapar:But she cant explain, if you not question her.
Arun Jaitley:So therefore whether CBI considered it as a legally admissible evidence or
not, is the question you must address to the CBI.
Karan Thapar:I am suggesting and I will say upfront that actually the CBI was told by the
Government, the BJP government, hands off Sonia Gandhi. Thats why you people have
the case to answer her as well.
-
7/31/2019 An Interview of Arun Jaitley on Bofars Scan
9/9
Arun Jaitley:Its a figment of your imagination, it has not truth and no connection with any
form of reality.
Karan Thapar: In you speech in Parliament on Thursday, you also said we need to
introspect, how easy it has become for people who indulge in these kind of activities. I put it
you, one reason why some of got a way and I deliberately wont take name.Arun Jaitley:Why?
Karan Thapar:Its because you didnt question people who should have been questioned.
Arun Jaitley:Absolutely rubbish, the reason for that is, you had large tenures of Congress
government or Congress supported government which tried to kill the case.
Karan Thapar:Except for the fact from 98 to 2004, it was BJP unbroken for six years and
questioning didnt happen?
Arun Jaitley:Except for the fact that during that period, the chargesheets was filed,
Quattrocchi was named an accused and charges were framed.
Karan Thapar:So, you honestly telling me that you dont have any sense of regret, leaveaside guilt about the way BJP handled Bofors.
Arun Jaitley:I have no sense of guilt but I have one regret. The NDA did what NDA could, it
was the Congress which tried to kill the case.
Karan Thapar:Did the NDA really do what it could when it stopped short to question Sonia?
Arun Jaitley:Well the NDA doesnt have to cross examine Mrs Gandhi or any other person,
it is the CBI. And CBI will do it on the basis of the material CBI has.
Karan Thapar:Alright, Arun Jaitley, a pleasure talking to you.