Aereo Supreme Court Transcript

1

OfficialSubjecttoFinalReview

1 INTHESUPREMECOURTOFTHEUNITEDSTATES

2 x

3 AMERICANBROADCASTING :

4 COMPANIES,INC.,ETAL., :

5 Petitioners : No.13461

6 v. :

7 AEREO,INC.,FKABAMBOOM :

8 LABS,INC. :

9 x

10 Washington,D.C.

11 Tuesday,April22,2014

12

13 Theaboveentitledmattercameonfororal

14 argumentbeforetheSupremeCourtoftheUnitedStates

15 at11:26a.m.

16 APPEARANCES:

17 PAULD.CLEMENT,ESQ.,Washington,D.C.;onbehalf

18 ofPetitioners.

19 MALCOLML.STEWART,ESQ.,DeputySolicitorGeneral,

20 DepartmentofJustice,Washington,D.C.;onbehalfof

21 theUnitedStates,asamicuscuriae,supporting

22 Petitioners.

23 DAVIDC.FREDERICK,ESQ.,Washington,D.C.;onbehalfof

24 Respondent.

25

AldersonReportingCompany

2


1 CONTENTS

2 ORALARGUMENTOF PAGE

3 PAULD.CLEMENT,ESQ.

4 3OnbehalfofthePetitioners

5 ORALARGUMENTOF

6 MALCOLML.STEWART,ESQ.

7 OnbehalfoftheUnitedStates,as

8 amicuscuriae,supportingPetitioners 19

9 ORALARGUMENTOF

10 DAVIDC.FREDERICK,ESQ.

11 OnbehalfoftheRespondent 27

12 REBUTTALARGUMENTOF

13 PAULD.CLEMENT,ESQ.

14 OnbehalfofthePetitioners 51

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25


3


1 PROCEEDINGS

2 (11:26a.m.)

3 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: We'llhearargument

4 nextinCase13461,AmericanBroadcastingCompaniesv.

5 Aereo.

6 Mr.Clement.

7 ORALARGUMENTOFPAULD.CLEMENT

8 ONBEHALFOFTHEPETITIONERS

9 MR.CLEMENT: Mr.ChiefJustice,andmayit

10 pleasetheCourt:

11 Aereo'sbusinessmodelistoenable

12 thousandsofpayingstrangerstowatchliveTVonline.

13 Aereo'slegalargumentisthatitcanmakeallofthat

14 happenwithoutpubliclyperforming. ButCongresspassed

15 astatutethatsquarelyforeclosesthatrather

16 counterintuitivesubmission. Becausealthoughthe

17 Internetandthethousandsofminiantennasarenew,the

18 basicservicethatAereoisprovidingisnotmaterially

19 differentfromtheserviceprovidedbythecablecompany

20 beforethisCourtin1969.

21 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: Whyaren'ttheycable

22 companies?

23 MR.CLEMENT: They'renot

24 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: I'mlookingatthe

25 everybody'sbeenarguingthiscaseasifforsure


4


1 they'renot. ButIlookatthedefinitionofacable

2 company,anditseemstofit. Afacilitylocatedinany

3 State. They'vegotawhatevertheyhavea

4 warehouseorabuildinginBrooklyn,thethat

5 receivessignaltransmissionsorprogramsbroadcastby

6 televisionbroadcaststations. They'retakingthe

7 signalsoffofthe

8 MR.CLEMENT: They'retakingthesignals,

9 right.

10 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: I'msorry,theyare.

11 Makessecondarytransmissionsbywires,cables,orother

12 communicationchannels. Itseemstomethatalittle

13 antennawithadimefitsthatdefinition. To

14 subscribingmembersofthepublicwhopayforsuch

15 service. Imean,IreaditandIsay,whyaren'ttheya

16 cablecompany?

17 MR.CLEMENT: Well,JusticeSotomayor,a

18 coupleofthings. Firstofall,Imean,Ithinkif

19 you'reifyou'realreadyatthatpoint,you've

20 probablyunderstoodthatjustlikeacablecompany,

21 they'republicthey'republiclyperformingandmaybe

22 theyqualifyasacablecompanyandmaybetheycould

23 qualifyforthecompulsorylicensethat'savailable

24 tocablecompaniesunderSection111ofthestatute.

25 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: Butitjustgetsit


5


1 mixedup. Dowehavetogotoallofthoseother

2 questionsifwefindthatthey'reacablecompany? We

3 saythey'reacapablecompany,theygetthecompulsory

4 license.

5 MR.CLEMENT: Well,no. There'slotsof

6 conditionsonthecompulsorylicense. AndIthinkthe

7 firstplacethereasonthatwehaven'tbeendebating

8 aboutwhetherthey'reacablecompanyisbecausethey

9 don'twanttobeacablecompany. Theyhaveafootnote

10 intheredbriefthatmakesitclear. Theyarenota

11 cablecompanyintheirview. Theydon'twanttobea

12 cablecompany. AndIthinkthat'sbecausecomingwitha

13 cablecompany,itmightpotentiallygetyouintothe

14 compulsorylicense,butitbringswithitalotof

15 obligationstocomewithbeingacablecompany

16 JUSTICEBREYER: Yes. Butthat'swhythey

17 don'twantit.

18 MR.CLEMENT: Exactly.

19 JUSTICEBREYER: Thatisn'tthequestion.

20 MR.CLEMENT: Well,here'stheotherthing

21 isIthink

22 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: Thequestionisare

23 they?

24 MR.CLEMENT: Idon'tthinktheyare.

25 That'sreallyultimatelyaquestionundertheFederal


6


1 CommunicationsAct. Buthere'swhy,ifIcouldI

2 thinkMr.Frederickwillcertainlyspeaktothisif

3 ifyouwanthimto. ButIthinkthereasontheydon't

4 wanttobeacablecompanyisbecauseIthinktheir

5 basicbusinessmodelwouldnotallowthemtoqualify

6 withcompulsorylicenseanyways.

7 JUSTICEBREYER: ButI'dstillliketoknow

8 theanswertothequestion,inyouropinion. And,of

9 course,ifyouwantareason,I'llgiveyoumyreason.

10 Ifwetakepublicperformance,maybewerun

11 intowhatProfessorNimmersawasaproblem. Whyisn't

12 whatusedtobecalledaphonographrecordstorethat

13 sellsphonographrecordsto10,000customersapublic

14 performance? Itseemstofallwithinthatdefinition.

15 Butifitis,there'snonofirstsaledoctrineand

16 it'sabigproblem. Sowecouldavoidthatproblem.

17 Now,that'swhyI'mveryinterestedinthe

18 answer,notjustwhattheywant.

19 MR.CLEMENT: Well,Idon'tthinktheyare

20 ultimatelyacablecompany,andwecoulddebatethat

21 question,butit'snotthequestionbeforeyou. So

22 maybeIcouldgiveyousomecomfortaboutwhyyoudon't

23 needtodecidethatquestion.

24 JUSTICEBREYER: Well,perhapsweshould

25 remandit,becausemyreasonforwantingtodecideitis


7


1 whatIsaid. Andwhatyou'vereadintheirbriefsis

2 they,intheirsupportingamici,havethrownupaseries

3 ofseriousproblemsnotinvolvingthem,likethecloud,

4 whichthegovernmenttellsustoignore,andmany

5 others,whichmakemenervousabouttakingyour

6 preferredgroup. Sothat'swhyIwasinterestedinthis

7 question.

8 MR.CLEMENT: But,JusticeBreyer,Ithink

9 it'sveryimportanttotounderstandthatevenif

10 they'reacablecompany,itdoesn'tmakeallthese

11 problemsgoaway. Becausetheywouldbeacablecompany

12 thatbyveryvirtueofwhattheywanttopointto,which

13 istheiruserspecificcopies,Idon'tthinktheywould

14 qualifyforthecompulsorylicense.

15 Ialsothinkthebetterwaytoavoidyour

16 concernsistomaybetakethemondirectly. Thereason

17 thattherecordcompanyisnotinvolvedinapublic

18 performanceisit'snotinvolvedinanyperformanceat

19 all,butthat'sdifferent,ofcourse,fromanonline

20 musicstore,whichnotonlyprovidesadownloadof

21 something,butactuallyperformsitandstreamsitand

22 allowsitlive. Andthatisabasicdistinctionthat's

23 notonlyrecognizedbytheSecondCircuitintheASCAP

24 case,butit'salsorecognizedintherealworldbythe

25 waythesethesedifferentservicesarestructured.


8


1 Ifyouprovidedownloadsofmusic,yougeta

2 distributionlicenseorareproductionlicense. Ifyou

3 providestreamingofmusicwhereyoualsohavea

4 contemporaneousliveperformance,thenyoualsogeta

5 publicperformancelicense.

6 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: IsyourdefinitionI

7 mean,JusticeBreyerhasalreadyaskedyousaidhe's

8 troubledaboutthephonographstore,andandthe

9 DropboxandtheiCloud. I'malsoworriedabouthowto

10 defineorpublicperformanceortheperformanceofa

11 workpublicly,whichIguessisthebetterwaytodoit,

12 accordingtoyou. HowdoIdefinethatsothatsomeone

13 whosellscoaxialcabletoaresidentofabuildingis

14 notsweptupasaparticipantinthis? Orsomeone

15 whothesortofpassivestorageadvisorsthatthis

16 isreallyhardforme.

17 MR.CLEMENT: Okay. Butletme

18 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: HowdoIwhatdoIdo

19 toavoidwhatdowedo,notme,butwhatdoesthe

20 Courtdotoavoidadefinitionoranacceptanceofa

21 definitionthatmightmakethosepeopleliable?

22 MR.CLEMENT: Okay. Well,letmetryto

23 takethoseareactuallytwodifferentexamples,andI

24 thinktheanswertobothofthemissomewhatdifferent.

25 Ithinktheproviderofcoaxialcableisifit'sjust


9


1 asimplesaleofthecableisnotperformingatall.

2 AndsoIthinkifyou'resomebodyandallyoudoistake

3 apieceofhardwareandyousellitonceandforallto

4 auser,thentheusermaybeperformingwiththe

5 equipment,butyou'reoutofthepicture. Andthat's

6 differentfromanongoingservice,likeacablecompany

7 orlikeAereo,whostillownsallthesefacilitiesand

8 they'reproviding,throughwiretransmissions,these

9 performancesonanongoingbasis.

10 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: Whatifyougetit

11 throughDropbox?

12 JUSTICEKAGAN: Well,that'ssomethingelse

13 beforeyougettoJusticeSotomayor'ssecondhalfofthe

14 question,butsomethingmorealongthelinesof

15 providinghardware. Supposeacompanyjustgavethe

16 antennaandaharddrive,that'swhattheysoldtothe

17 user,andtheuserwasabletousetheantennaandthe

18 harddriveinherownhouseorapartmentinordertoget

19 allthesebroadcastprograms. Whatwouldthewould

20 thatbeaperformance?

21 MR.CLEMENT: Ithinktheenduserwouldbe

22 doingaperformance,butitwouldbeapurelyprivate

23 performance,andIdon'tthinkthepersonthatsoldthem

24 thehardwareorreallyanybodyelse,ifIunderstand

25 yourhypo,wouldbeinvolvedinaperformance. Andthe


10


1 answertothesehyposImean,thisisn'tsomething

2 thatI'mmakinguponthefly. Imean,it'srightthere

3 inthetextofthestatute.

4 JUSTICEKAGAN: Butthenitreallydoes

5 dependon,like,wherethewherethehardwareis. In

6 otherwords,ififAereohasthehardwareinits

7 warehouseasopposedtoAereosellingthehardwareto

8 theparticularenduser,thatisgoingtomakeallthe

9 differenceintheworldastowhetherwehaveapublic

10 performanceornotapublicperformance.

11 MR.CLEMENT: Welland,again,Ithink

12 thatgoestowhatIwasabouttosay,whichislet's

13 justnotbecause,youknow,welikeonebetterthanthe

14 other. It'sbecauseofthetextofthestatuteCongress

15 wrote. Oneofthewaysthatyoucanpublicperform. I

16 mean,theystartwiththeclassicpublicperformance.

17 Right? Asingerinaconcerthall. Theysoldtickets.

18 Butthentheysay,wait,it'salsoapublicperformance

19 ifyoutakethesinger'sperformanceandyoutransmit

20 it,andthey'rethinkingovertheairwaysandallsorts

21 ofotherways,ifyoutransmitittothepublic. And

22 thedefinitionoftransmission,then,istocommunicate

23 itfromoneplacetoanother.

24 Sothereisageographicalaspect,ifyou

25 will,builtrightintothestatutesothatifyousell


11


1 somebodyhardwareandallthey'redoingistransmitting

2 ittothemselvesattheirhome,there'snotgoingtobe

3 atransmissionthat'schargeabletothepersonwhosold

4 youthehardware. Butifyouprovideanongoingservice

5 fromaremote

6 JUSTICEKAGAN: Soyouthinkthatinmy

7 hypo,there'saperformance,butit'saprivate

8 performanceandthenyoumovethehardwareandit

9 becomesapublicperformance. Isthatit?

10 MR.CLEMENT: Ititbecomesapublic

11 performanceonbehalfofthesender,butitstillwould

12 beaprivateperformanceonbehalfofthereceiver. And

13 that'sonethingthat'sreallyimportanttogetinmind,

14 isthatinthisstatuteastothepublicperformance

15 right,there'snothingparticularlyanomalousabouta

16 singletransmissionthatfromthesender'sperspective

17 isapublicperformance,butfromtherecipient's

18 perspectiveonlyallowsforaprivateperformance.

19 Ifyouthinkabouttheclassiccable

20 context,whichiswhatCongresswastryingtoaddressin

21 1976withtheTransmitClause,youhavethecable

22 companyandthey'retakingaperformanceoffofthe

23 airwaysandthey'retransmittingittoallthe

24 endusers.

25 Now,thecablecompanyisclearlyperforming


12


1 tothepublic,butthatsametransmissionisallowing

2 eachendusertoturnontheirtelevisionsetandto

3 makeaperformanceproper,whichisaprivate

4 performance.

5 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: SoRokuisRokuis

6 payingalicensefornoreason.

7 MR.CLEMENT: I'msorry?

8 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: Rokuispayingalicense

9 fornoreason? Theysoldmeapieceofequipment.

10 MR.CLEMENT: Idon'tknowallthedetails

11 ofthatparticularpieceofequipment. I'mnotsure

12 whetherthey'rethey'repayingalicenseornot. But

13 iftherewasreallyatransferandthere'snobodyelse

14 providingatransmission,Idon'tthinkthatjust

15 operatingthehardwareintheprivacyofyourownhome

16 isgoingtoresultinanythingbutaprivate

17 performance.

18 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: GototheiDropinthe

19 cloud.

20 MR.CLEMENT: Sure. Now,there's,Ithink,

21 it'saslightlydifferentsituation. Here,Ithinkthe

22 ultimatestatutorytextthatallowsyoutodifferentiate

23 acloudlockerstoragefromsomethinglikewhatAereo

24 doesisalanguagetothepublic. AndIdothinkthat

25 inallsortsofplaces,includingtherealworld,



13

1 there'safundamentaldifferencebetweenaservicethat

2 allowsthatprovidesnewcontenttoallsortsof

3 endusers,essentiallyanypayingstranger,anda

4 servicethatprovidesalocker,astorageservice. And

5 Ithinkifyouwantarealworldanalogyoffofthe

6 Internet,Ithinkit'sthebasicdecisionthe

7 differencebetweenacardealerandavaletparking

8 service. Imean,ifyoulookatitfrom30,000feet,

9 youmightthink,hey,bothofthesethingsprovidecars

10 tothepublic. Butifyoulookedatitmoreclosely,

11 you'dunderstand,well,ifIshowupatthecar

12 dealershipwithoutacar,I'mgoingtobeabletogeta

13 car. IfIshowupatthevaletparkingserviceandI

14 don'townacar,it'snotgoingtoendwellforme. And

15 so

16 JUSTICEALITO: Whatisthedifference

17 (Laughter.)

18 JUSTICEALITO: Ididn'tmeantointerrupt

19 your

20 MR.CLEMENT: Well,iwasjustgoingto

21 soIthinkthereisaveryrealwayinwhichyouwould

22 say,youknow,attheendoftheday,thecardealer's

23 providingcarstothepublic,thevaletparkingservice

24 isnot. It'sprovidingaparkingservice.

25 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Whyisn'tandI


14


1 don'twanttostretchittoobutwhyisn'titlikea

2 publicgarageinyourowngarage? Imean,youknow,if

3 youyoucanparkyourcarinyourowngarageoryou

4 canparkitinapublicgarage. YoucangotoRadio

5 ShackandbuyanantennaandaDVRoryoucanrentthose

6 facilitiessomewhereelsefromAereo. They've

7 they'vegotanantenna. They'llletyouuseitwhenyou

8 needitandtheycan,youknow,recordthestuffaswell

9 andletyoupickitupwhenyouneedit.

10 MR.CLEMENT: Mr.ChiefJustice,that'snot

11 animplausiblewaytolookatthis. That'sexactlythe

12 waythatthisCourtlookedatitinFortnightly

13 decision. ButCongressin1976decideditwasgoingto

14 lookatitdifferently,anditsaidthatifyouare

15 providingaservice,evenifyouareprovidingaservice

16 thatonecouldreconceptualizeasjustrentingout

17 antennasthatsomebodycouldputontheirownhouse,the

18 personthatprovidesthatserviceonanongoingbasis

19 andintheprocessexploitsthecopyrightedworksof

20 othersisengagedinapublicperformance. Thatis

21 clearlywhattheyweretryingtodointhe1976Actby

22 addingthetransmitclause.

23 JUSTICEALITO: Well,theSecondCircuit

24 analogizedthistoitsCableVisiondecision. Somaybe

25 youcouldexplaintomewhatisthedifference,inyour


15


1 view,betweenwhatAereodoesandaremotestorageDVR

2 system. Isthedifferencedoesthedifferencehave

3 todowiththewayinwhichthecablecompanythathas

4 theremotestorageDVRsystemversusAereoacquiresthe

5 programinthefirstplace? Doesithavetodowiththe

6 numberofpeoplewhoviewthisprogramthat'sbeen

7 recorded? Whatisthedifference?

8 MR.CLEMENT: Ithinkthepotential

9 difference,andit'sboththeCloudLockerstorageand

10 thisexample,Idon'tthinkthisCourthastodecideit

11 today. Ithinkitcanjustbeconfidenttheyare

12 different. Hereisthe

13 JUSTICEALITO: Well,Idon'tfindthatvery

14 satisfyingbecauseIreallyIneedtoknowhowfar

15 therationalethatyouwantustoacceptwillgo,andI

16 needtounderstand,Ithink,whateffectitwillhaveon

17 theseothertechnologies.

18 JUSTICEKENNEDY: Ihadthesamequestion.

19 JustassumethatCableVisionisourprecedent. Iknow

20 thatitisn't,butlet'sjustassumethatitis. How

21 wouldyoudistinguishtheCableVisionfromyourcaseand

22 howisitapplicablehere? Assumethatit'sbinding

23 precedent. Justthat'sahypothetical.

24 MR.CLEMENT: Okay. But,JusticeKennedy,I

25 wouldliketoanswerbothyourquestionsbyassuming


16


1 thattheresultinCableVisionisright,butIdon't

2 havetonecessarilybuythereasoning,becauseIthink

3 thereasoningofCableVisionisprofoundlywrong,solet

4 mecirclebacktothat.

5 Butthereasonthere'safundamental

6 differencebetweentheRSDVRatissueinCableVision

7 andwhatAereoprovidesis,asJusticeAlitoalludedto,

8 thefactthatthere'salicenseintheCableVision

9 contexttogettheinitialperformancetothepublic.

10 AndsothenIthinkappropriatelythefocusinthe

11 CableVisioncontextbecomesjusttheplaybackfeature

12 andjustthetimeshiftingthat'senabledbythat. And

13 inthatcontext,ifyoufocusonlyonthat,thentheRS

14 DVRlooksalotlikealockerservicewhereyouhaveto

15 comeinwiththecontentbeforeyoucangetcontentout

16 andyouonlygetbackthesamecontent.

17 AndhereiswhatreallyIthinkAereois

18 like. AereoislikeifCableVision,havingwoninthe

19 SecondCircuit,decides: Whew,wewon,soguesswhat?

20 Goingforward,we'regoingtodispensewithallthese

21 licenses,andwearejustgoingtotrytotellpeoplewe

22 arejustanRSDVR,that'sallweare,andnevermind

23 thatwedon'thaveanylicensedabilitytogetthe

24 broadcastinthefirstinstance,andwe'regoingto

25 provideittoindividualusers,andit'sallgoingtobe


17


1 becausetheypushbuttonsandnotbecausewepush

2 buttons. Ifthatwerethehypothetical,Idon'tknow

3 howthatwouldn'tbetheclearestviolationofthe1976

4 Act.

5 JUSTICEBREYER: That'sexactlyourproblem.

6 I'mhearingeverybodyhavingthesameproblem,andI

7 willbeabsolutelyprepared,atleastforargument's

8 sake,toassumewithyouthatiftherewereever

9 anythingthatshouldbeheldtofallwithinthepublic

10 performance,thisshouldbe. Allright? Iwillassume

11 that. I'mnotsayingit.

12 Butthentheproblemisinthewordsthatdo

13 that,becausewehavetowritewords,arewesomehow

14 catchingotherthingsthatreallywillchangelifeand

15 shouldn't,suchasthecloud? Andyousaid,well,as

16 thegovernmentsays,don'tworry,becausethatisn'ta

17 publicperformance. AndthenIreadthedefinitionand

18 Idon'tseehowtogetoutofit.

19 MR.CLEMENT: Hereisthewaytogetoutof

20 it,JusticeBreyer. Ultimatelythewordsyou'regoing

21 tohavetointerpretare"tothepublic."

22 JUSTICEBREYER: Tothepublic? Yousee,

23 separate,atthesametime,oratdifferenttimes?

24 Separateortogether? Soathousandpeoplestoreinthe

25 cloudthesamething,ascaneasilyhappen,andpullit


18


1 backatvaryingtimesoftheday.

2 MR.CLEMENT: Ifalltheycandois,just

3 likethevaletcarparkingservice,isgetbackwhat

4 theyputupthere,Ithinkyoucouldeasilysaythat

5 thatisnottothepublic. Andthatisnotjustme

6 comingupwithacleverdistinction. That'sthe

7 distinctionthat'sreallybeendrawnintherealworld,

8 becausenotallcloudcomputingiscreatedequal,and

9 therearesomecloudcomputingservicesthatusecloud

10 computingtechnologytogetnewcontenttopeoplethat

11 don'thaveit,andtheygetlicenses. Andthereis

12 othercloudcomputingthatjusthaslockerservicesand

13 theydon'tthinktheyneedalicense,andsoI'mnot

14 sayingthatyouhavetoblesswhatthemarkethasdone,

15 butIthinkit'saprofoundindication

16 JUSTICEKAGAN: Butwhatif,Mr.Clement,

17 it'snotsosimpleasacompanythatjustallowsyou

18 yourselftoputsomethingupthere? Whatifhow

19 abouttherearelotsofcompanieswheremany,many

20 thousandsormillionsofpeopleputthingsupthere,and

21 thentheysharethem,andthecompanyinsomeways

22 aggregatesandsortsallthatcontent. Doesthatcount?

23 MR.CLEMENT: That,JusticeKagan,is

24 preciselywhyI'maskingyounottodecidethecloud

25 computingquestiononceandforalltoday,becausenot



19

1 allcloudcomputingiscreatedequal. Thedetailsofit

2 mightmatter. IfIcantakemyvaletparkingservice

3 onemoretime. Ifavaletparkingservicestarts

4 rentingthemoutandsortofhasalittleZipcarservice

5 onthesideandsays,hey,whilewehaveyourcar,if

6 somebodyelseneedsacar,we'regoingtorentitoutto

7 them,Ithinkthat'sdifferentfromthepurevalet

8 parkingservice.

9 IfIcouldreservetherestofmytimefor

10 rebuttal. Thankyou.

11 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Thankyou,counsel.

12 Mr.Stewart.

13 ORALARGUMENTOFMALCOLML.STEWART

14 ONBEHALFOFTHEUNITEDSTATES,AS

15 AMICUSCURIAE,SUPPORTINGPETITIONERS

16 MR.STEWART: Mr.ChiefJustice,andmayit

17 pleasetheCourt:

18 Iwouldliketobeginbyreinforcingtwoof

19 thepointsthatMr.Clementmade. Thefirstisthat

20 whatAereoisdoingisreallythefunctionalequivalent

21 ofwhatCongressinthe1976Actwantedtodefineasa

22 publicperformance. AstheChiefJusticesaid,one

23 potentialwayoflookingatthisisthatAereoand

24 companieslikeitarenotprovidingservices,theyare

25 simplyprovidingequipmentthatdoes,inamore



20

1 sophisticatedway,whattheviewerhimselfcando. It's

2 aplausiblewayoflookingattheworld. That'swhat

3 theCourtinFortnightlyandTelepromptersaid,but

4 Congressactedtooverridethatandtomakeclearthat

5 cableservices,servicesthatusedonebigantennato

6 pullbroadcastsignalsoutoftheskyandrerouteitto

7 theirsubscribers,thosepeoplewereengagedinpublic

8 performancesandtheyoughttobepayingroyalties.

9 ThesecondthingthatIwouldliketo

10 reinforceinMr.Clement'spresentationisthatthereis

11 noreasonthatadecisioninthiscaseshouldimperil

12 cloudlockerservicesgenerally,but,asMr.Clementwas

13 pointingout,thattheterm"cloudcomputing"

14 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: HowaboutSimple.TVor

15 NimbleTV,whichisnotquiteahybrid?

16 MR.STEWART: IguessI'mnotfamiliar

17 enoughwiththeprecisedetailsoftheoperation,but

18 justletmesayingeneraltermsthereareobviously

19 servicesthatprovidetelevisionprogrammingoverthe

20 Internet. Someofthemarelicensedbecausethey

21 recognizethattheyarepubliclyperforming. Ifa

22 particularcompany,forinstance,recordedtelevision

23 programsandofferedtostreamthemtoanyonewhopaid

24 thefeeorofferedtostreamthemforfreeandmakeits

25 moneyoffadvertising,thatwouldbeapublic


21


1 performancebecausethosecompanieswouldbeproviding

2 contenttopeoplewhodidn'thaveit.

3 Ithinkthebasicdistinction,theonethat

4 atleastdefinestheextremes,isthedistinction

5 betweenthecompany,whetheritbeInternetbasedora

6 cabletransmitter,thatprovidescontentinthefirst

7 instanceandthecompanythatprovidesconsumerswith

8 accesstocontentthattheyalreadyhave. Ifyouhavea

9 cloudlockerservice,somebodyhasboughtadigitalcopy

10 ofasongoramoviefromsomeothersource,storesit

11 inalockerandasksthatitbestreamedback,thecloud

12 lockerandstorageserviceisnotprovidingthecontent.

13 It'sprovidingamechanismforwatchingit.

14 JUSTICEKAGAN: CanIaskmysamequestion

15 toyouthatIaskedtoMr.Clement? Howaboutif

16 there'sacompanythatallowssharingandthat

17 aggregatesallthecontentthatdifferentindividual

18 usersputupandthatinsomesensesortofsortsand

19 classifiesthecontentindifferentways? Howabout

20 that?

21 MR.STEWART: Ithinkyouwouldhaveto

22 youwouldhavetoknowboththedetailsoftheservice

23 andyouwouldhavetobemakingahardercallthere

24 abouthowtodrawtheline,becauseIdon'tpretendthat

25 thereisabrightlinebetweenprovidingaserviceand


22


1 providingaccesstoequipment. Ifyoulook,for

2 instance,attheextremesofapersonputtingarooftop

3 antennaathisownhome,everybodyagreesthatthe

4 rooftopantennamanufacturerisnotperformingatall

5 andtheindividualisengagedinasolelyprivate

6 performance.

7 Theotherextremeisthecablecompany,one

8 bigantenna,makestransmissionstoalotofpeople;

9 Congressclearlyintendedtodefinethatasaprivate

10 performance. Somewhereintheyoucouldcomeupwith

11 lotsofhypotheticalsthatlookmoreorlesslikeoneof

12 theotherextremes,theyaresomewhereinthemiddle.

13 It'sanauthenticallyhardcallastowheretodrawthe

14 line. SoIdon'thaveagoodanswerforyou.

15 JUSTICEBREYER: Howdowegetoutof

16 theexample? Imean,howdowegetoutwhatwordsdo

17 Iwritetogetoutofthis,throwingintothisclausea

18 musicstorethatdistributesviaFederalExpress,a

19 device,ortheU.S.PostalServiceorevensomeoneover

20 thecounter,distributesto10,000peopleacopyofa

21 recordwhichtheythenwilltakeandplayit? They

22 have,tothesamedegree,transmittedsomethingthat

23 willelectronicallymakeaperformanceofthemusic. So

24 aretheywhentheyselltherecordviolatingthedisplay

25 clause?


23


1 MR.STEWART: No,they'renot

2 JUSTICEBREYER: Because? Because?

3 MR.STEWART: Becausethedefinitionof"to

4 transmit"goeson: "Totransmitaperformanceor

5 displayistocommunicateitbyanydeviceorprocess

6 wherebyimagesorsoundsarereceivedbeyondtheplace

7 fromwhichtheyaresent."

8 JUSTICEBREYER: Ofcoursetheyare. The

9 soundsarereceivedbeyondtheplace. Itrequiresthe

10 persontotaketherecord,putitonamachine,andthen

11 playit.

12 MR.STEWART: Well,thereisaseparate

13 exclusiveright.

14 JUSTICEBREYER: Ofcoursethereis. And

15 thatseparateexclusiverighthassuchthingsasfirst

16 saledoctrineisattached. Butiftheyalsoflowhere,

17 iftheyifthiscoversthem,whichiswhyNMPAwrote

18 theparagraphthatwasquoted,ifthiscoversit,there

19 isnofirstsaledoctrine,andthathasalotof

20 consequences. Ithinkso. Anyway,ifyoudon'tknow

21 andyouhaven'tgotsomethingrightthereandyou

22 haven'tthoughtaboutit,you'renotgoingtothink

23 aboutitintwominutes,norwillI.

24 MR.STEWART: No. No. Ihavethoughtabout

25 it. AndIthinktheansweristhattheword"transmit"


24


1 isbeingusedinaparticularsense. Youarecorrect

2 thattherearesomecontextsinwhichwewouldsaythat

3 apersonwhosendsCDsorvitalalbumsoverthemailsis

4 transmittingthose. That'snotthesenseinwhichthe

5 term"transmit"isusedhere. It'stalkingabout

6 transmittinginawaythatcausesthesightsandsounds

7 tobereceived,transmissionthroughradiowaves,

8 throughcable,etcetera. Andiftherewereanydoubt

9 abouttheword"transmit,"rememberthatit'spartof

10 thedefinitionoftheword"perform." Andambiguities

11 inthedefinitionshouldbeconstruedinlightofthe

12 definedterm. Andnobodywouldsay,inordinary

13 parlance,thatapersonwhotransferredacopyofa

14 recordwasperformingit.

15 JUSTICEGINSBURG: Mr.Stewart,beforeyou

16 finish,Mr.Clementinhisbriefmadethepointthatwe

17 wouldifwetookthepositionthatPetitionerurges,

18 therewouldbeanincompatibilitywithourinternational

19 obligations;thatis,Aereo'sviewofthepublic

20 performancerightisincompatiblewithourobligations

21 undertheBerneConventionandunderwhatisit,

22 WYCO? Onpages44to45ofhisbrief,hesaysthat

23 "Aereo'sviewofwhatthepublicperformancerightis

24 runsstraightupagainstourinternationalobligations,"

25 andhecitesacasefromtheEuropeanCourtofJustice


25


1 andIthinkanothercase.

2 MR.STEWART: Wehaven'tmadethatargument.

3 WewebelievethatexistingU.S.copyrightlaw

4 properlyconstruedisfullysufficienttocomplywith

5 ourinternationalobligations. Butthatthatdoesn't

6 meanthatwethinkthatwheneveracourtmisconstrues

7 thestatute,wewillautomaticallybethrowninto

8 breach. It'scertainlypossible. Butifthiscasewere

9 decidedinAereo'sfavorthatsomeofourinternational

10 tradingpartnersmightobject,butbutI'mnotgoing

11 totakethepositionthatwewouldconcedethose

12 objectionshadmerit,sowe'renotmakingthatargument.

13 TheotherthingIwouldmakesaytoto

14 reinforcethepointthatMr.Clementwasmakingabout

15 thephrase"tothepublic,"usinghisexampleofthe

16 valetparking,usingacomparableexampleofacoat

17 checkroom,therearesituationsallthetimeinwhich

18 peopleplacepropertymomentarilyatthedisposal

19 disposalofanotherandthenretrieveitlater. And

20 it'sdistributedtothematthatlaterdate,notin

21 theircapacitiesasmembersofthepublic,butasthe

22 trueownersoftheproperty. AndIthinksomekindof

23 distinctionalongthoselinesisessentialinmuchmore

24 mundaneapplicationsoftheCopyrightAct. Forexample,

25 ifIinvite10friendsovertowatchtheSuperBowl,


26


1 that'saprivateperformance. It'snotapublic

2 performance. That'sthat'snotbecausemyfriends

3 arenotmembersofthepublic. Theyare. Andinsome

4 othercapacities,itwouldbeimportanttoregardthem

5 assuch.

6 Ifthetheaterdownthestreethada

7 screeningofCasablancaandithappenedthatthose10

8 peopleweretheonly10peoplewhoattended,itwouldbe

9 apublicperformance,becausetheywouldbeintherein

10 theircapacitiesasmembersofthepublic. SoIthink

11 forinawiderangeofsituationsdealingwithpublic

12 performance,distributiontothepublic,it'sessential

13 toasknotonlyaretheseindividualsmembersofthe

14 publicinsomesense,butaretheyactingintheir

15 capacitiesassuch. Andifyouhavethepurecloud

16 lockerservice,theservicethatdoesn'tprovide

17 content,itsimplystorescontentandthenplaysitback

18 attheuser'srequest,thatthatservicewouldbe

19 providingcontenttoitstrueowner.

20 JUSTICEKENNEDY: Howdoyouwantustodeal

21 withCableVisiontheCableVisioncaseintheSecond

22 Circuit? Againassumeit'sabindingprecedent. Just

23 assumethat.

24 MR.STEWART: Myanswerwouldbethesameas

25 Mr.Clement's,thatthereasoningofCableVision,ifyou


27


1 reallyadheretotheideathattheonlytransthe

2 onlyperformancethatcountsistheindividual

3 transmission,andaskdoesthatgotomorethanone

4 person,thenit'shardtoseehowyoucouldrulein

5 favorofourpositionhere. Butasfarasthebottom

6 lineoutcomeofCableVisionisconcerned,youcould

7 acceptthegovernment'spositionandstillsay

8 CableVisionwasdecidedthecorrectwaybecause

9 preciselybecauseCableVisionhadalicensetoperform

10 inrealtime,tobroadcasttheprogramtoits

11 subscribers. Theonlythingthatwasatissuewasthe

12 supplementalRSDVRservice. Andthecourtin

13 CableVisionappropriately,wethink,heldthatthe

14 recordingofthoseprogramsbythesubscriberswhowere

15 alreadyentitledtoviewtheminrealtimewasfairuse

16 underSonyandtheplaybackcanreasonablybe

17 characterizedasaprivateperformanceoftheirown

18 content. Thankyou.

19 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Thankyou,

20 Mr.Stewart.

21 Mr.Frederick.

22 ORALARGUMENTBYMR.DAVIDC.FREDERICK

23 ONBEHALFOFTHERESPONDENT

24 MR.FREDERICK: Thankyou,Mr.Chief

25 Justice,andmayitpleasetheCourt:


28


1 Iwanttoaddressthecablequestion,but

2 beforeIdothat,canIjustsaythethreepointsI

3 wantedtomakearethetextisveryclearforAereo,the

4 interpretationsofthetextthattheyofferabsolutely

5 threatencloudcomputing,andthird,thiscaseisreally

6 areproductionrightcasemasqueradingasapublic

7 performancecase.

8 Now,wearenotacableservice. Thereason

9 we'renotacableserviceisbecausecabletakesall

10 signalsandpushesthemdown. There'saheadin. It's

11 definedbystatute. There'saveryparticularized

12 regulatorystructurethatdealswithtakingalotof

13 contentandpushingitdowntoconsumers. Aereoisan

14 equipmentprovider. NothinghappensonAereo's

15 equipmentuntilauserinitiatesthesystem. Theuser

16 initiatesthesystembyloggingonandpressingthisis

17 theprogramthatIwanttowatch. Thatthentunesthe

18 antenna,activatestherecordingthatwillbemade,and

19 thentheuseristhenabletoplaybackthatrecording.

20 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: Ialwaysthought,and

21 I'lltrytobecarefulaboutit,butnotoftenenough,

22 probablybreachitlikeeveryothermemberofthe

23 public,thatifItakeaphonographofarecordand

24 duplicateitamilliontimesthewayyou'redoingit,

25 andIthengooutandselleachofthosecopiestothe


29


1 public,thenIamviolatingtheAct. Sowhyisitthat

2 youarenot?

3 MR.FREDERICK: Well

4 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: It'snotlogicalto

5 me

6 MR.FREDERICK: Sure.

7 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: thatyoucanmake

8 thesemillionsofcopiesandgivesellessentially

9 sellthemtothepublic,becauseyou'retellingthe

10 publicwhentheywanttobuyit,theycancallitupand

11 hearit. Sowhyaren'tyoutrans

12 MR.FREDERICK: Well,yourhypothetical,

13 JusticeSotomayor,implicatesthereproductionright.

14 Thatistheexclusiverightofthecopyrightholderto

15 restrictthenumberofcopiesthatismade. Thatisnot

16 apublicperformancerightquestion.

17 Theyabandonedtheirchallengeinthe

18 preliminaryinjunctionproceedingtothereproduction

19 rightissuebecauseitrunsrightintotheSony

20 decision. InSony,thisCourtheldthatconsumershave

21 afairuserighttotakelocalovertheairbroadcasts

22 andmakeacopyofit. AllAereoisdoingisproviding

23 antennasandDVRsthatenableconsumerstodoexactly

24 whatthisCourtinSonyrecognizedtheycandowhen

25 they'reinhomeandthey'removingtheequipment,the


30


1 antennasandtheDVRs

2 JUSTICEGINSBURG: Mr.Frederick

3 MR.FREDERICK: totheInternet.

4 JUSTICEGINSBURG: wasJudgeChinright

5 whenhesaidtherewasnotechnicallysoundreasonto

6 usethesemultipleantennas? Thattheonlyreasonfor

7 thatwastoavoidthebreachoftheCopyrightAct. Was

8 thereatechnicalreason,insteadofhavingaoneway

9 antenna,tohaveallofthesewhat,dimesizeantennas?

10 MR.FREDERICK: Letmethisisavery

11 complexquestion,JusticeGinsburg,andletmeanswerit

12 multiplelevels. Therearetechnicalreasonswhythe

13 individualantennasprovidethesameutilityatlower

14 costsandfunctionalitythanonebigantenna. Butthere

15 areverypracticalconcerns,too.

16 Asastartupbusiness,Aereoisattempting

17 toenticeconsumerstoreplicateonthecloudwhatthey

18 candoathomeatlowercapcostsandmoreefficiency.

19 Asapracticalmatter,andJudgeChinhadnobasisin

20 whichtomakethisstatementatallinhisdissent

21 becausethesearefactsnotontherecordandefficiency

22 isnotaconsiderationundertheCopyrightAct,you

23 can'tdomultiplechannelsovertheInternetanyway.

24 Youcanonlydoasinglevideostreamatatime. So

25 whetheryouhaveonebigantennaorwhetheryouhave


31


1 lotsoflittleantennas,youstillhavetocompressthe

2 signalandonlyonecangoovertheInternetatatime.

3 However,JusticeGinsburg,asastartup

4 business,thereisaveryrealconsiderationforwhy

5 multipleantennasmakesense. Ifyou'reinNewYork

6 City,youwanttoputanantennaontopofthebuilding,

7 you'vegottogetabuildingpermit. Ifyouwantto

8 constructit,you'vegottogetaconstructionpermit.

9 Ifyouwanttoputituptherewithacrane,youhaveto

10 getasubwaypermitbeforeyoucandoallofthethings

11 toputabigantennaonabuildinginNewYorkCityto

12 getbroadcastsignals.

13 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Butisthereany

14 reasonyouneed10,000ofthem? Can'tyouputjust

15 ifyourmodeliscorrect,can'tyoujustputyour

16 antennaupandthendoit? Imean,there'sno

17 technologicalreasonforyoutohave10,000dimesized

18 antenna,otherthantogetaroundthecopyrightlaws.

19 MR.FREDERICK: Well,thepointofthe

20 copyrightlaws,though,YourHonor,shouldn'tturnon

21 thenumberofantennas. Itturnsonwhethertheperson

22 whoisreceivingthesignalthatcomesthroughthe

23 Internetisprivatelyperformingbyinitiatingthe

24 actionofthatantennagettingadatastream,having

25 thatsignalcompressedsothatitcanbestreamedover


32


1 theInternetthroughauserspecific,userinitiated

2 copy.

3 JUSTICESCALIA: Thatmaywellbe,butit

4 doesn'tcontradicttheChiefJustice'squestion. I

5 mean,you'rejustsayingthatbydoingitthiswayyou

6 don'tviolatethecopyrightlaws. Buthisquestionis,

7 isthereanyreasonyoudiditotherthannottoviolate

8 thecopyrightlaws?

9 MR.FREDERICK: Weunderstoodyes,there

10 isareason,JusticeScalia. Wewantedtotell

11 consumers,youcanreplicatetheexperienceatvery

12 smallcost. Youknowyouhavearighttoputanantenna

13 onyourroofandputaDVRinyourlivingroom. Wecan

14 provideexactlythesameantennaandDVRforafraction

15 ofcostbyputtingitoverthecloud.

16 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Yeah,butit's

17 notit'snot. Yougivethemspacethat'savailable

18 whentheycallin. Theydon'thavethisismylittle

19 dimething,andthisismycopythat'sgoingtobehere.

20 They'rethere,andwhentheywantsomething,youprovide

21 theserviceofgivingthemthat. Theydon'thavea

22 dedicatedantennainBrooklyn.

23 MR.FREDERICK: Well,someoftheconsumers

24 do. Therecordisclearthatsomearestatically

25 assignedtoparticularusers. ButMr.ChiefJustice,


33


1 thatdoesn'tanswerthequestion,thestatutory

2 interpretationquestion,whichis,asinCableVision,as

3 JusticeKennedynoted,thereisauserspecific,

4 userinitiatedcopythatwhenviewedbytheuserisa

5 privateperformance.

6 Thatoperationofthesystemworksexactly

7 thesameway. AndthefactthatCableVisionisableto

8 compressitssignalstomakethemInternetaccessible

9 throughasingleantennaandAereochoosestodoit

10 throughmultipleantennastoavoidallthehasslesthat

11 gowithhavingabigantennashouldnotmatterforthe

12 copyrightlaws.

13 We'restilltalkingaboutrentingequipment,

14 thatconsumershavearighttogetovertheairsignals

15 thatarefreetothepublic,usingpublicspectrumthat

16 thethatthegovernmenthasallocatedsothat

17 broadcasters

18 JUSTICEKENNEDY: SupposesupposeAereo

19 offeredaservicesothattheviewerathomecouldpress

20 threedifferentbuttons,butittakesonly45seconds,

21 andhecouldgetthebroadcastwithoutadvertising? And

22 Aereowouldhavesomewaytoscreenouttheadvertising

23 soyoucouldwatchtheentirebaseballgameorfootball

24 gamewithouttheadwithouttheads.

25 MR.FREDERICK: Thatwouldprobablyviolate


34


1 thereproductionright,JusticeKennedy. Itwouldnot

2 violatethepublicperformancerights.

3 JUSTICEKENNEDY: WouldAereobeaperformer

4 then?

5 MR.FREDERICK: Aereowouldnotbea

6 performer. Thequestionwouldbeandthisdoesgo

7 intothetechnicaldetails. Andhere,theposition

8 betweenthepartiesisquitestark. Theysaythefacts

9 don'tmatter. Wehaveawelldevelopedfactualrecord.

10 There,JusticeKennedy,thefactthatwouldmatterin

11 yourhypotheticalwouldbewhetherornottheinitiation

12 oftheadvertiserfreehadbeensomehowdonebythe

13 consumerorwhetherithadbeendonebythecloud

14 provider.

15 JUSTICEKENNEDY: No,theconsumermakesthe

16 choice. Youcanhaveitwiththeadsorwithoutthe

17 ads. Pushbuttononeorbuttontwo.

18 MR.FREDERICK: Right. Iunderstand

19 JUSTICEKENNEDY: Idon'tunderstandwhyhe

20 istheperformerinonecaseandnotintheothercase.

21 MR.FREDERICK: Becausethetheactionof

22 whoisaperformerturnsunderthestatuteonwhois

23 makingwhoisactingtomakethesequenceofsounds

24 andimagesperceivable. Whereyou'retalkingabout

25 takingoutadvertising,whatyou'redoingisyou're


35


1 alteringthecopy,andyouareabridging,infringing,

2 thereproductionright. Thatisnotsomethingthatyou

3 candointheAereotechnology. Ihavenobriefto

4 defendthat. Thatwouldbeaverydifficult

5 reproductionrightquestion. Butitdoesn'tmatterin

6 termsofwhoisexercisingaprivateperformance,

7 becausethatisbeingdoneinthehomewiththe

8 userinitiated,userspecificcopy.

9 JUSTICESCALIA: Mr.Frederick,youryour

10 clientisisjustusingthisforlocalsignals

11 MR.FREDERICK: Yes.

12 JUSTICESCALIA: rightnow. Butifwe

13 approvethat,isthereanyreasonitcouldn'tbeused

14 fordistantsignalsaswell?

15 MR.FREDERICK: Possibly.

16 JUSTICESCALIA: Possiblywhat? Thereis

17 possiblyareason,oritcouldpossiblybeused?

18 MR.FREDERICK: Itcan'tbeusedfor

19 distance,butitimplicates

20 JUSTICESCALIA: Whatwouldthedifference

21 be. Imean,youcouldtakeHBO,right? Youcould

22 youcouldcarrythatwithoutwithoutperforming.

23 MR.FREDERICK: No,becauseHBOisnotdone

24 overtheairwaves. It'sdonethroughaprivateservice.

25 ButJusticeScalia,letmeansweryour


36


1 distantsignalhypotheticalthisway. Thatwould

2 implicateagainthereproductionright. Itdoesnot

3 implicatetheprivateperformanceandpublicperformance

4 distinction,because,evenifyouweretotakedistant

5 signalsandmakethemavailableinthehome,it'sstill

6 throughauserinitiated,userspecificcopyofdistant

7 programming.

8 Thequestionthenbecomes,isthereafair

9 userighttobeabletodothat. WhatSonysaid,

10 becauseSonywasdealingwithlocalovertheair

11 broadcastsandmakingacopyoflocalovertheair

12 broadcasts,itsaidthatconsumershaveafairuseright

13 tomakeacopyofthat.

14 Sonydidnotaddressthedistantsignal,and

15 thequestionthenwouldbecomeinbalancingthefairuse

16 factorswhetheritwasappropriateforaconsumertobe

17 abletogetaccesstothatprogrammingwithoutbeing

18 abletootherwiseimplicatethefreepublicspectrum.

19 Now,thewayCongresshasaddressedthat,

20 Congresshasaddressedthatbysayingthatwhenthere

21 aredistancesignalsthatthengetpushedthrougha

22 cablesystem,thereisacopyrightroyaltythatgets

23 paid.

24 ButIwanttomakeabsolutelyclear.

25 Satellite,cable,donotpaycopyrightroyaltiesfor


37


1 localovertheairbroadcasts. Why? Becausethelocal

2 overtheairbroadcastchannelswanteditthatway.

3 Theydidn'twanttobeinasituationofhavingto

4 figureouthowtodivvyupallthecopyrightroyalties

5 tothevariousholders. Sowhentheytalkabouthow

6 CongresssupposedlyoverruledFortnightly,whatthey

7 ignoreisthatinSection11(d)andinSection122(c)of

8 theCopyrightAct,Congresssaidtheretransmissionof

9 localovertheairbroadcaststhroughsatelliteand

10 cableshallbeexemptfromthecopyrightregime.

11 Andsowhentheytalkaboutthe

12 retransmissionissue,they'rereallytryingtoconflate

13 atotallydifferentregulatorysystem

14 JUSTICEGINSBURG: Mr.Frederick,wouldyou

15 clarify? Ifeveryothertransmitterdoespayaroyalty

16 maybeit'sundercompulsorylicenseandyouare

17 theonlyplayersofarthatdoesn'tpayanyroyaltiesat

18 anystage

19 MR.FREDERICK: Well,JusticeGinsburg,the

20 personwhosellsanantennatomeatthelocalRadio

21 Shackdoesn'tpaycopyrightroyaltieseither. Anda

22 andacompanythatprovidesarentalserviceformeto

23 putanantennainmyhomeandinstallit,theydon'tpay

24 copyrightroyaltieseither.

25 Andthequestionthatitreallyboilsdown


38


1 inthiscaseishowsignificantshoulditbehowlong

2 thecordisbetweentheantennaandtheDVRbeing

3 JUSTICEBREYER: Theanswerisvery

4 significant. Andthereasonit'sverysignificantis

5 becausewhatthelocalantennapersondoesn'tdobutyou

6 apparentlycoulddo,evenifyoudon't,iswiththesame

7 kindofdevicepickupeverytelevisionsignalinthe

8 worldandsendit,almost,andsenditintoaperson's

9 computer. AndthatsoundssomuchlikewhataCATV

10 systemdoesorwhatasatellitesystemdoesthatit

11 looksasifsomehowyouareescapingaconstraintthat's

12 imposeduponthem. That'swhatdisturbseveryone.

13 Andthenwhatdisturbsmeontheotherside

14 isIdon'tunderstandwhatthedecisionforyouor

15 againstyouwhenIwriteitisgoingtodotoallkinds

16 ofothertechnologies. I'vereadthebriefsfairly

17 carefully,andI'mstilluncertainthatIunderstandit

18 wellenough. Thatisn'tyourproblem,butitmightturn

19 outtobe.

20 (Laughter.)

21 MR.FREDERICK: Well,letmeaddressI

22 thinkIletmetrytomakeittheirproblem.

23 (Laughter.)

24 MR.FREDERICK: IthinkI'veaddressedthe

25 distantsignal,andIthinkyoucanreservethatcaseto



39

1 saythatmightraiseadifferentissue,butonthefacts

2 herewouldnotentitlethecompanytoaninjunction

3 enjoiningAereofromprovidingtheservice.

4 Now,withrespecttothesecondaspectof

5 this,thereasonwhytheirinterpretationofthe

6 transmitclausecausessomuchproblem,somanyproblems

7 forthecloudcomputingindustry,isthatistwofold.

8 Numberone,theyareconflatingperformancewithworkin

9 thetransmitclause. Whattheyaresayingisthat,so

10 longastheworkisalwaysperceivedinsomefashion

11 throughaperformancethatisprivatelydonethroughthe

12 playbackofarecording,thatthatbecausethe

13 initialworkwasdisseminatedtothepublic,that

14 implicatesthepublicperformanceright.

15 Whatthatdoesisitmeansthateverytime

16 somebodystoressomethinginthecloud,whetherit'sa

17 song,avideoimageororthelike,ifithappensto

18 besomethingthatsomebodyelsehasstoredinthecloud,

19 theactofonepersoninitiatingitandperceivingitis

20 goingtoimplicatethepublicperformanceright. And

21 that'swhythecloudcomputingindustryisfreakedout

22 aboutthiscasebecausethey'veinvestedtensof

23 billionsofdollarsonthenotionthatinuserspecific,

24 userinitiatedcopywhenperceivedbythatpersonisa

25 privateperformanceandnotapublicperformance.


40


1 Thesecondthingthattheydothat'swrong

2 withthestatuteistheyaggregateperformances.

3 Insteadofwherethestatutesays"transmita

4 performance,"theysay"transmitperformances." Because

5 theyacknowledgethatthewaythetechnologyworksfor

6 Aereoisthatitisanindividual,userspecific,

7 userinitiatedcopy. Buttheysaynomatterifyouadd

8 enoughofthemtogether,youcanaggregatethatto

9 becomeapublicperformance.

10 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Justtomakesure

11 I'vegotthere'snoreasonit'sauserspecificcopy,

12 isit? They'remaking10,000copies. It'dbemuch

13 easierforyouifyou'djusthavetomakeonecopyand

14 everybodycouldgetacopy.

15 MR.FREDERICK: Well,that'swheretheissue

16 aboutreplicatingwhathappensinthehomematters,

17 Mr.ChiefJustice,becauseifI'minmyhomeandIstart

18 theprogramtwominutesin,usingAereo'stechnology,I

19 missedthefirsttwominutes,Inevergettowatchit.

20 IthappenstobewhenIpushthebuttontoinitiatethe

21 copy,justlikeifI'mathomewatchingonaDVR,the

22 sameprinciple. Andsothatcopywillalwaysbe

23 differentbecauseIhavecontroloveritversus

24 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Surely,youcanmake

25 aprogramwhereyouhavejustonecopyandstartingit



41

1 atdifferenttimes. Youdon'tneedeveryviewertohave

2 hisowncopy.

3 MR.FREDERICK: Butthatisthatisthe

4 keydistinctionbetweenvideoondemandandtheservice

5 thatAereoprovides,thekindsofequipmentand

6 technologythatAereoprovides. Wedon'thaveabrief

7 todefendthemastercopybecauseinthemastercopy

8 situation,thatisindisputablypublicbecausethereis

9 norighttoexcludeanyoneelse. WithAereo's

10 technology,ifI'mmakingacopyusingAereo'ssystem,

11 nooneelsecanlookatit. Evenifyouhappentohave

12 watchedthesameprogram,youcan'twatchmycopy,I

13 can'tdownloadit

14 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: That'sjustsaying

15 yourcopyisdifferentfrommycopy.

16 MR.FREDERICK: Correct.

17 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Butthat'sthe

18 reasonwecallthemcopies,becausethey'rethesame.

19 (Laughter.)

20 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: AllI'mtryingto

21 getat,andI'mnotsayingit'soutcomedeterminativeor

22 necessarilybad,I'mjustsayingyourtechnological

23 modelisbasedsolelyoncircumventinglegal

24 prohibitionsthatyoudon'twanttocomplywith,which

25 isfine. Imean,that'syouknow,lawyersdothat.


42


1 ButI'mjustwonderingwhy

2 (Laughter.)

3 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: whetheryoucan

4 givemeanytechnologicalreason,apartfromcompliance

5 withaparticularlegalissue,foryourtechnological

6 mind.

7 MR.FREDERICK: Itismuchsimplerifyou're

8 astartuptoaddcomponents,toaddmoduleswhenyou're

9 startingup,rampingup. Andwhatwe'retalkingabout

10 inanycloudcomputingindustryisyou'restartingwith

11 onegroupofserversandthenyouaddthem,almostlike

12 Legopieces,asyouareaddingthenumberofpeoplethat

13 you'reusing. Thatisatechnologicalreasonwhythe

14 cloudworksthewayitdoes,Mr.ChiefJustice.

15 SowithAereo'santennasanditsDVRs,we

16 can,withaboutthelengthofthesizeofthiscounsel

17 tablehere,servicetensofthousandsofpeopleinthe

18 NewYorkarea. Wecanprovidetheantennasandwecan

19 providetheDVRsandit'saverycompact,smallspace.

20 Andthenifweexpandandwe'reabletocontinuetobe

21 inbusinessandwegetmoresubscribersinBrooklyn,we

22 mightaddanotherrowthatwouldbethesizeofof

23 thecounseltablesbehindme.

24 Thataspectofthetechnologygoestothe

25 modulesthatareusedforcloudcomputingwhereyou


43


1 basicallycanaddadditionalservers,addadditional

2 harddiskspaceandthenwhennewconsumersactivate

3 andletmejustbeclearaboutthis,whentheysignup,

4 theirsystemiscompletelyempty. There'snocontent

5 beingprovided. There'sequipmentthat'sbeing

6 provided. Sowhentheyactivatethesystemandthey

7 say,Iwanttowatchthenewsat6o'clock,theythen

8 starttheprocessthatthenfillstheirindividually

9 assignedstoragewiththe6o'clocknews. Butuntil

10 thathappens,there'snocontentbeingprovided. Sothe

11 notionthattheyhaveintheirreplybriefoverandover

12 thatwe'resomehowacontentproviderwouldmeanthat

13 everybodywhoprovidesanantennaoraDVRissomehowa

14 contentprovider. Andifthat'strue,thenthe

15 implicationsfortheequipmentindustryareobviously

16 quitemassiveandyoucanunderstandwhythatwould

17 frightenthecloudcomputingindustrybecausethatturns

18 themintopublicperformerswhenevertheyarehandling

19 content. Now,thegovernmentsays

20 JUSTICEGINSBURG: Theygivethesubscriber

21 amenu,anditsaysyoucangetanyofthesethings.

22 It'snotasthoughthethesubscriberinitiatesit.

23 Youhavethesechoicesandthey'reprovidingyouthese

24 choicesandthosechoicesarecontent.

25 MR.FREDERICK: It'snodifferent,


44


1 JusticeGinsburg,thanifI'mathomeandIhavean

2 antennaorrabbitearsonmyTVandIknowwhatchannels

3 Icanget.

4 JUSTICEKAGAN: But,Mr.Frederick,it's

5 alsoit'salsonodifferentfromfromauser's

6 perspective,it'sexactlythesameasifI'mwatching

7 cable. Right? Youjusthaveadifferentcontent

8 selection,butitlooksthesametoyou. Somebodyelse

9 isprovidingyouwithamenu,andthenyoupickoffthat

10 menu.

11 MR.FREDERICK: Right. Butthemenu,

12 JusticeKaganandJusticeGinsburg,issimplywhatis

13 technologicallyavailable. Therearebroadcastsignals

14 thatareavailableinalocalarea,andtheyarelimited

15 becausethat'swhatthebroadcastersmakeavailable.

16 Andsimplyprovidingauserguidethatsaysyoucantune

17 tothischanneloryoucantunetothatchannel,ifyou

18 wanttopickuponeprogramoranother,can'tbethe

19 differencebetweenacontentproviderandmerely

20 merelyfacilitatingtheuseofyourequipment.

21 JUSTICEBREYER: Wouldyouwouldyou

22 explaininasentenceortwo,whichwillsoundasifI'm

23 bickeringwithyou,butIwantthemtohaveachanceto

24 reply,thethingthatfrightenedmesomewhatinyour

25 briefwas,Ithink,ofthecloudstoringeverybody's


45


1 music. Vastamountsofmusic. Andnowtheythensend

2 itdown,perhapstoamillionpeopleatatime,whoall

3 wanttohearthesamesong.

4 Now,whatyousaidwas,ifIunderstoodit,

5 butexplainitifitis,thatthereisaprovisionof

6 thecopyrightlawthatsayswhenthathappens,it's

7 subjecttoacompulsorylicense. Andifit'ssubjectto

8 acompulsorylicense,then,ofcourse,peoplecangetit

9 andit'spaidforbysomebody. Butifwesidewith

10 them,there'dbeadifferentprovisionthatwouldcome

11 intoplay,namely,theperformance,anditwouldn'tbe

12 subjecttothecompulsorylicense. There'snopoint

13 tellingmeI'mrightifI'mwrong. WhatIwanttoknow

14 isamIhaveIgotyourargumentcorrectly? Andif

15 not,whatisit?

16 MR.FREDERICK: Ithinkthatyourargument,

17 JusticeBreyer

18 JUSTICEBREYER: It'snotmyargument. It's

19 aparody. Anindirectversionofyourargument.

20 MR.FREDERICK: Letmeokay. Letmetry

21 tocorrectthis. Thereisnocompulsorylicensewith

22 respecttomusicorvideo. Therearedifferent

23 compulsorylicenseswithrespecttosatelliteandcable

24 thatcaptureallsignalsandpushthemdowntoeveryone.

25 JUSTICEBREYER: Allright. Sothatwould


46


1 bethesameanditisn'tgoingtobeaproblem.

2 MR.FREDERICK: No. Whereit'sgoingtobe

3 aproblemwiththecloudisifyousayifI'm

4 watchingaparticularprogramandyou'rewatchinga

5 particularprogramandJusticeSotomayoriswatchingthe

6 sameprogram,weareengagingandthecompanythat

7 hasallowedustomakeacopyofthatisengagingin

8 publicperformance. Whereyouhavetodealwith

9 infringementistheconceptofofvolitionandthe

10 ideaofwhoisdoingtheact. IfI'msimplymaking

11 equipmentavailable,then

12 JUSTICEBREYER: Butitshouldworkoutina

13 parallelway. Thatis,whenIlookattheprogram,Iam

14 makingacopyoftheprogramand,therefore,I'm

15 violatingthenonexclusiverighttheexclusiveright

16 tocopy. Now,ifthat'sfairuseandtherefore,Ican

17 doit,itshouldalsobefairuseifexactlythesame

18 thinghappensbutitcomesfromacloud.

19 MR.FREDERICK: Butletmeletmelet

20 mefurtheransweryourquestionaboutmusic,becauseI

21 omittedakeydistinction,whichisthatforlocalradio

22 broadcasts,thereisamusicdistributionlicense. It's

23 underSection115oftheCopyrightAct.

24 JUSTICEBREYER: 115(c)(3).

25 MR.FREDERICK: Right. Butthat'sthe


47


1 wholethatisexactlythesamewaysatelliteand

2 cablework,aswell. Sothatifyou'rebroadcastingin

3 thelocalarea,itisforfree. Itislikea

4 copyrightfreezone. Andthereasonforthatinthe

5 musicworldisbecausetheywantlocalradio

6 broadcasterstoplaysongsbecausethatdrivessalesof

7 therecords. That'satotallydifferentbusinessmodel,

8 ofcourse,thaninthetelevisionworld.

9 Butthereasonwhythismattersforyour

10 perspectiveisthatwhatthecourttheSecondCircuit

11 inCableVisiondidwasitsaiduserspecific,

12 userinitiatedcopiesareprivateperformances. They

13 arenotpublicperformances. Andtheonlyway

14 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: Butnowyou'resaying

15 thatAT&Tsystem,Netflix,Hulu,allofthosesystems

16 gettheircontentandtheydon'tpushitdowntoyou.

17 Theydoexactlywhatyoudo. Theyletyouchoosewhat

18 youwanttosee.

19 MR.FREDERICK: Yeah. Thedifferenceis

20 thattheydonotexcludeanyone. Andthedifference

21 thepublicprivatedistinctionfromprivatepropertylaw

22 iswhetherornotthere'sarighttoexclude. IfIhave

23 privateproperty,Iexcludeothers. IfIhavepublic

24 property,I'mnotexcludingothers. Netflix,Hulu,

25 thoseotherservices,they'renotexcludinganyone. As


48


1 auserofthoseservices,Ihavenorighttoexclude

2 anyoneelse. Andsotheyaremakingtheirproduct,

3 theircontentavailabletoallwithoutexclusionother

4 thanthesubscriptionthatyoupay. Whatwe'redoingis

5 providingtheequipmentthatenablespeopletoaccess

6 it.

7 JUSTICEGINSBURG: Butyouarefeeding

8 subscribers,legionsofsubscribers. SoIdon't

9 understandthat. Yousaytheyhavetoareyou

10 selective,inthatsomepeoplewhowanttouseyour

11 servicearegoingtobeturneddown? You'renot. You

12 willtakeanybodywhocanpay,right.

13 MR.FREDERICK: Sure. Andifwewentaround

14 toa1,000or10,000homesinBrooklynandweputup

15 antennas,installedtheirDVRsforthem,andwesent

16 themamonthlybilleverymonthtopayusbecausewehad

17 performedthatserviceandprovidedthatequipment,it

18 wouldbetheexactsameposition,JusticeGinsburg. And

19 thatcan'tbeacopyrightviolation.

20 Now,theonlydistinctionthegovernmenthas

21 offeredforwhyCableVisiondecisionintheSecond

22 Circuit,andthisgoestoyourquestion,

23 JusticeKennedy,somehowshouldbedifferenthere,isin

24 thesupposedlawfulnessofthefirstinstanceinwhich

25 thatcontentisreceived. Thatdistinctioncan'twork


49


1 andwouldimperilthecloud. Hereiswhy. Whena

2 personisaccessinglocalovertheairbroadcast

3 television,itisdoingsobecausethatisprepublic

4 spectrum. AndSonysayswehaveafairuserightin

5 ordertomakeacopyofthatfreeuse. Thegovernment

6 intheFortnightlycasearguedthatthereisan

7 impliedinlawlicensewhenapersonaccesseslocal

8 overtheairtelecastsinthatway. Soitcan'tbethe

9 distinctionbetweenoursituationandCableVisionthat

10 thereissomehowsomedifference. BecauseifI'm

11 watchinglocalovertheairbroadcastTVinmyhome,I

12 don'thavetopayaroyaltyforit. Andthat'sexactly

13 theanalogythatwouldbeappropriatethere.

14 Now,howwouldthataffectthecloud? Well,

15 ifyouturneverytypeofperformancethatanindividual

16 makesfromsomecontentthatgetsdownloadedor

17 transferredfromthecloud,thecloudprovidercan't

18 tellwhatislegalorwhatisnotlegal. Somestuff

19 couldbeuptherepirated. Somestuffcouldbeupthere

20 perfectlylicensed. Andwhatthepositionoftheother

21 sideinthiscaseis,thosepeopleareliablefordirect

22 infringementofthepublicperformanceright. And

23 that'swhythecloudindustryisveryconcernedthatif

24 youhavetooexpansiveaninterpretationofwhatisthe

25 publicperformanceright,youareconsigningthemto


50


1 potentiallyruinousliability.

2 JUSTICEKAGAN: Mr.Frederick,whyisn'tit

3 sufficienttocreatealinesuchastheoneMr.Clement

4 said,whichsaid,youknow,doyouontheonehand

5 supplyorprovidethecontent,thatputsyouinonebox;

6 ontheotherhand,ifyouarenotsupplyingorproviding

7 thecontent,iftheuserissupplyingandprovidingthe

8 content,andyouarejustprovidingthespace,akindof

9 platformforthemtodothatandforthempotentiallyto

10 sharethecontent,thatputsyouinanotherbox?

11 MR.FREDERICK: Well,JusticeKagan,Inote

12 thatmyfrienddidnotreferencethewordsofthe

13 TransmitClauseatallwhenheofferedthatdistinction.

14 Andthat'sactuallyquiteimportant,becauseinorderto

15 getthere,youhavetomakeupwordstoputtheminthe

16 TransmitClause. Butevenifyouweretothinkthat

17 thatwasgoodforapolicyreason,youwouldstillhave

18 toexplainwhythehundredsofthousandsofpeoplethat

19 aresubscriberstoAereo'sservicedon'thaveexactly

20 thesamefairuserighttogetovertheairbroadcast

21 contentthatallofthosepeoplewhoarenotAereo

22 subscribersbuttheyhappentohaveahomeantennaanda

23 DVR. Thosepeoplehaveeverybitasrighttogetthat

24 access. Andthefactthattheyaredoingitdoesn't

25 maketheirantennaortheirantennaprovideracontent


51


1 provider. AsIsaid

2 JUSTICEGINSBURG: Whydopeoplepayforthe

3 Aereoserviceiftheycandothesamethingallby

4 themselves?

5 MR.FREDERICK: Becauseifyoudon'thaveto

6 buyaTV,aDVRandanantennaandaslingbox,which

7 mightcostyouthousandsofdollars,youmightpay$100

8 torentit,orifyouwanttojustlookatprogramming

9 selectively,youpay$8amonth,it'sarentalservice,

10 JusticeGinsburg. Thatcan'tchangethecopyright

11 analysis. Andjustbecauseyourentequipmentdoesnot

12 transformthepersonthatisprovidingthatequipment

13 intoapublicperformer,particularlywhenyouarethe

14 onewhoinitiateseverysetofsignalsthatactivates

15 theprogrammingandthecontent.

16 Iftherearenofurtherquestions,we'll

17 submit.

18 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Thankyou,Counsel.

19 Mr.Clement,youhavethreeminutes

20 remaining.

21 REBUTTALARGUMENTBYPAULD.CLEMENT

22 ONBEHALFOFPETITIONERS

23 MR.CLEMENT: Thankyou,Mr.ChiefJustice.

24 Justafewpointsinrebuttal:

25 First,Ijusthavetocorrectafundamental


52


1 difference. Mr.Fredericksays,ashedidinhisred

2 brief,thatifyouonlyifyouareacablecompany

3 andyouonlyretransmitlocally,youdon'thavetopaya

4 royalty. Thatisjustwrong,aswepointoutinthe

5 replybrief. Thereisaminimumroyaltythatevery

6 cablecompanypayswhetherornottheytransmitdistance

7 signals. Sothatisjustwrong.

8 Second,thisisnotacase,asMr.Frederick

9 wouldliketosay,wheretheuserpushesabutton,and

10 thenafterthatpoint,Aereoisjustahapless

11 bystander. Andifyouwantinsightintowhatactually

12 happensbehindthescenes,tousethephrasethe

13 DistrictCourtused,lookatpages64Ato67Aofthe

14 petitionappendix. BecauseJudgeNathanexplainsallof

15 thethingsthatAereodoesaftertheconsumerpresses

16 thebuttonandbeforeitcomesbacktothemontheir

17 homescreen. Theyarenotjustapassivebystander.

18 Also,thiswholenotionofwhatis

19 volitional. Maybeinthereproductionconcept,in

20 context,justpushingabuttonandthereisonlyone

21 personwhoreproduces,buttheconceptofwhatisthe

22 requisitevolitionalconductisansweredbytheTransmit

23 Clause. Congressspecificallylookedatthisandsaid

24 therearegoingtobelotsofsituationswherethe

25 sender,usuallythecablecompanyorAereo,sendsa


53


1 transmissiontotheuser,andthesenderofthat

2 transmission,ifitallowsacontemporaneous

3 performance,unliketherecordcompany,theyarea

4 transmitter.

5 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: Mr.Waxman,tellmethe

6 consequencesofourdecisiontoday.

7 MR.CLEMENT: Yourconsequences

8 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: Doyouputthemoutof

9 business,ordotheyhavetogoandnegotiatealicense

10 witheverycopyrightholder? Theyouare,infact,

11 tellingmetheyarenotacablecompany,theyarenota

12 satellitecompany,sotheycan'tgointothosesystems

13 ofpayment. Whathappensthen?

14 MR.CLEMENT: Theconsequencesreallygets

15 backtotheChiefJustice'squestion,whichis,ifthey

16 actuallyprovidesomethingthatisanetbenefit

17 technologically,there'snoreasonpeoplewon'tlicense

18 themcontent. Butontheotherhand,ifalltheyhave

19 isagimmick,thentheyprobablywillgooutofbusiness

20 andnobodyshouldcryatearoverthat.

21 JUSTICEBREYER: Onceyoutakethemoutof

22 thecompulsorylicensingsystem,they'regoingtohave

23 tofindcopyrightowners,whoownsJamesAgee's

24 pictures? Whoownssomethingthatwaswrittenby

25 likeaFrenchsilentfilmin1915? Imean,theproblem


54


1 isthattheymightwanttohaveperfectlygoodthings

2 thatpeoplewanttowatchandtheycan'tfindouthowto

3 getpermission. Thatisaproblemthatworriesmeand

4 itworriesmeagainonceyoukickthemoutoftheother

5 systems.

6 MR.CLEMENT: It'snotaproblemthatshould

7 worryyoubecause,firstofall,iftheyneeda

8 compulsorylicense,maybeCongresscanrevisititasit

9 hasintechnologicallyspecificwaysforcableand

10 satellite,butthereisotherwaystogetcontent. They

11 canapproachHBO

12 JUSTICESOTOMAYOR: ButtheSecond

13 Circuit

14 JUSTICESCALIA: Doyouhavesomeother

15 rebuttalpoints?

16 MR.CLEMENT: Idid,YourHonor,andoneof

17 themreallygetstothisHBOpoint,whichistheywant

18 tosaythatthiswholecaseisaboutreproductionand

19 there'snopublicperformancegoingonatall. Andto

20 understandhowcrazythatis,withallduerespect,if

21 theyapproachHBOandsay,wewouldliketocarryyour

22 contentandprovideitasapremiumservice,theywould

23 betellingHBO,bytheway,wedon'tneedapublic

24 performancelicense. Allweneedisareproduction

25 licensebecausewedon'tinvolveourselvesinanypublic



55

1 performanceatall,andthat'swhyattheendoftheday

2 theirargumentsimplyblinksreality. Theyprovide

3 thousandsofpayingstrangerswithpublicperformances

4 overtheTV,buttheydon'tpubliclyperformatall.

5 It'slikemagic.

6 Thankyou,YourHonors.

7 CHIEFJUSTICEROBERTS: Thankyou,counsel.

8 Counsel.

9 Thecaseissubmitted.

10 (Whereupon,at12:25p.m.,thecaseinthe

11 aboveentitledmatterwassubmitted.)

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25


OfficialSubjecttoFinalReviewOfficialSubjecttoFinalReview

56

A additional 43:1 allocated 33:16 30:1,6,9,13 26:22,23

$100 51:7 43:1 allow 6:5 31:1,5,21 assuming 15:25

$8 51:9 address 11:20 allowed 46:7 33:10 42:15,18 AT&T 47:15

a.m 1:15 3:2 28:1 36:14 allowing 12:1 48:15 attached 23:16

abandoned 38:21 allows 7:22 anybody 9:24 attempting

29:17 addressed 36:19 11:18 12:22 48:12 30:16

ability 16:23 36:20 38:24 13:2 18:17 anyway 23:20 attended 26:8

able 9:17 13:12 adhere 27:1 21:16 53:2 30:23 authentically

28:19 33:7 ads 33:24 34:16 alluded 16:7 anyways 6:6 22:13

36:9,17,18 34:17 altering 35:1 apart 42:4 automatically

42:20 advertiserfree ambiguities apartment 9:18 25:7

aboveentitled 34:12 24:10 apparently 38:6 available 4:23

1:13 55:11 advertising American 1:3 APPEARAN... 32:17 36:5

abridging 35:1 20:25 33:21,22 3:4 1:16 44:13,14,15

absolutely 17:7 34:25 amici 7:2 appendix 52:14 46:11 48:3

28:4 36:24 advisors 8:15 amicus 1:21 2:8 applicable 15:22 avoid 6:16 7:15

accept 15:15 Aereo 1:7 3:5,18 19:15 applications 8:19,20 30:7

27:7 9:7 10:6,7 amounts 45:1 25:24 33:10

acceptance 8:20

access 21:8 22:1

12:23 14:6

15:1,4 16:7,17

analogized

14:24

approach 54:11

54:21 B

36:17 48:5 16:18 19:20,23 analogy 13:5 appropriate back 16:4,16

50:24 28:3,13 29:22 49:13 36:16 49:13 18:1,3 21:11

accesses 49:7 30:16 33:9,18 analysis 51:11 appropriately 26:17 28:19

accessing 49:2 33:22 34:3,5 anomalous 16:10 27:13 52:16 53:15

acknowledge 35:3 39:3 40:6 11:15 approve 35:13 bad 41:22

40:5 41:5,6 50:21 answer 6:8,18 April 1:11 balancing 36:15

acquires 15:4 51:3 52:10,15 8:24 10:1 area 42:18 44:14 BAMBOOM

act 6:1 14:21 52:25 15:25 22:14 47:3 1:7

17:4 19:21 Aereo's 3:11,13 23:25 26:24 argued 49:6 baseball 33:23

25:24 29:1 24:19,23 25:9 30:11 33:1 arguing 3:25 based 41:23

30:7,22 37:8 28:14 40:18 35:25 38:3 argument 1:14 basic 3:18 6:5

39:19 46:10,23 41:9,10 42:15 46:20 2:2,5,9,12 3:3 7:22 13:6 21:3

acted 20:4 50:19 answered 52:22 3:7,13 19:13 basically 43:1

acting 26:14 affect 49:14 antenna 4:13 25:2,12 27:22 basis 9:9 14:18

34:23 Agee's 53:23 9:16,17 14:5,7 45:14,16,18,19 30:19

action 31:24 aggregate 40:2,8 20:5 22:3,4,8 51:21 55:2 behalf 1:17,20

34:21 aggregates 28:18 30:9,14 argument's 17:7 1:23 2:4,7,11

activate 43:2,6 18:22 21:17 30:25 31:6,11 ASCAP 7:23 2:14 3:8 11:11

activates 28:18 agrees 22:3 31:16,18,24 asked 8:7 21:15 11:12 19:14

51:14 airwaves 35:24 32:12,14,22 asking 18:24 27:23 51:22

ad 33:24 airways 10:20 33:9,11 37:20 asks 21:11 believe 25:3

add 40:7 42:8,8 11:23 37:23 38:2,5 aspect 10:24 benefit 53:16

42:11,22 43:1 AL 1:4 43:13 44:2 39:4 42:24 Berne 24:21

43:1 albums 24:3 50:22,25,25 assigned 32:25 better 7:15 8:11

adding 14:22 Alito 13:16,18 51:6 43:9 10:13

42:12 14:23 15:13 antennas 3:17 assume 15:19,20 beyond 23:6,9

16:7 14:17 29:23 15:22 17:8,10 bickering 44:23

AldersonReportingCompanyAldersonReportingCompany


57

big 6:16 20:5 32:22 42:21 41:18 13:25 14:10 15:8,24 17:19

22:8 30:14,25 48:14 called 6:12 19:11,16,22 18:2,16,23

31:11 33:11 building 4:4 cap 30:18 27:19,24 31:13 19:19 20:12

bill 48:16 8:13 31:6,7,11 capable 5:3 32:4,16,25 21:15 24:16

billions 39:23 built 10:25 capacities 25:21 40:10,17,24 25:14 50:3

binding 15:22 business 3:11 26:4,10,15 41:14,17,20 51:19,21,23

26:22 6:5 30:16 31:4 capture 45:24 42:3,14 51:18 53:7,14 54:6

bit 50:23 42:21 47:7 car 13:7,11,12 51:23 53:15 54:16

bless 18:14 53:9,19 13:13,14,22 55:7 Clement's 20:10

blinks 55:2 button 34:17,17 14:3 18:3 19:5 Chin 30:4,19 26:25

boils 37:25 40:20 52:9,16 19:6 choice 34:16 clever 18:6

bottom 27:5 52:20 careful 28:21 choices 43:23,24 client 35:10

bought 21:9 buttons 17:1,2 carefully 38:17 43:24 closely 13:10

Bowl 25:25 33:20 carry 35:22 choose 47:17 cloud 7:3 12:19

box 50:5,10 51:6 buy 14:5 16:2 54:21 chooses 33:9 12:23 17:15,25

breach 25:8 29:10 51:6 cars 13:9,23 circle 16:4 18:8,9,9,12,24

28:22 30:7 bystander 52:11 Casablanca 26:7 Circuit 7:23 19:1 20:12,13

Breyer 5:16,19 52:17 case 3:4,25 7:24 14:23 16:19 21:9,11 26:15

6:7,24 7:8 8:7 15:21 20:11 26:22 47:10 28:5 30:17

17:5,20,22 C 24:25 25:1,8 48:22 54:13 32:15 34:13

22:15 23:2,8 C 1:23 2:1,10 26:21 28:5,6,7 circumventing 39:7,16,18,21

23:14 38:3 3:1 27:22 34:20,20 38:1 41:23 42:10,14,25

44:21 45:17,18 cable 3:19,21 38:25 39:22 cites 24:25 43:17 44:25

45:25 46:12,24 4:1,16,20,22 49:6,21 52:8 City 31:6,11 46:3,18 49:1

53:21 4:24 5:2,8,9,11 54:18 55:9,10 clarify 37:15 49:14,17,17,23

brief 5:10 24:16 5:12,13,15 6:4 catching 17:14 classic 10:16 CloudLocker

24:22 35:3 6:20 7:10,11 CATV 38:9 11:19 15:9

41:6 43:11 8:13,25 9:1,6 causes 24:6 39:6 classifies 21:19 coat 25:16

44:25 52:2,5 11:19,21,25 CDs 24:3 clause 11:21 coaxial 8:13,25

briefs 7:1 38:16 15:3 20:5 21:6 certainly 6:2 14:22 22:17,25 come 5:15 16:15

bright 21:25 22:7 24:8 28:1 25:8 39:6,9 50:13 22:10 45:10

brings 5:14 28:8,9,9 36:22 cetera 24:8 50:16 52:23 comes 31:22

broadcast 4:5,6 36:25 37:10 challenge 29:17 clear 5:10 20:4 46:18 52:16

9:19 16:24 44:7 45:23 chance 44:23 28:3 32:24 comfort 6:22

20:6 27:10 47:2 52:2,6,25 change 17:14 36:24 43:3 coming 5:12

31:12 33:21 53:11 54:9 51:10 clearest 17:3 18:6

37:2 44:13 cables 4:11 channel 44:17 clearly 11:25 communicate

49:2,11 50:20 CableVision 44:17 14:21 22:9 10:22 23:5

broadcasters 14:24 15:19,21 channels 4:12 Clement 1:17 communication

33:17 44:15 16:1,3,6,8,11 30:23 37:2 2:3,13 3:6,7,9 4:12

47:6 16:18 26:21,21 44:2 3:23 4:8,17 5:5 Communicati...

broadcasting 26:25 27:6,8,9 characterized 5:18,20,24 6:1

1:3 3:4 47:2 27:13 33:2,7 27:17 6:19 7:8 8:17 compact 42:19

broadcasts 47:11 48:21 chargeable 11:3 8:22 9:21 companies 1:4

29:21 36:11,12 49:9 checkroom 10:11 11:10 3:4,22 4:24

37:1,9 46:22 call 21:23 22:13 25:17 12:7,10,20 18:19 19:24

Brooklyn 4:4 29:10 32:18 Chief 3:3,9 13:20 14:10 21:1


58


company 3:19 confident 15:11 16:9,11,13 count 18:22 debating 5:7

4:2,16,20,22 conflate 37:12 52:20 counter 22:20 decide 6:23,25

5:2,3,8,9,11,12 conflating 39:8 contexts 24:2 counterintuitive 15:10 18:24

5:13,15 6:4,20 Congress 3:14 continue 42:20 3:16 decided 14:13

7:10,11,17 9:6 10:14 11:20 contradict 32:4 counts 27:2 25:9 27:8

9:15 11:22,25 14:13 19:21 control 40:23 couple 4:18 decides 16:19

15:3 18:17,21 20:4 22:9 Convention course 6:9 7:19 decision 13:6

20:22 21:5,7 36:19,20 37:6 24:21 23:8,14 45:8 14:13,24 20:11

21:16 22:7 37:8 52:23 copies 7:13 47:8 29:20 38:14

37:22 39:2 54:8 28:25 29:8,15 court 1:1,14 48:21 53:6

46:6 52:2,6,25 consequences 40:12 41:18 3:10,20 8:20 dedicated 32:22

53:3,11,12 23:20 53:6,7 47:12 14:12 15:10 defend 35:4 41:7

comparable 53:14 copy 21:9 22:20 19:17 20:3 define 8:10,12

25:16 consideration 24:13 29:22 24:25 25:6 19:21 22:9

completely 43:4 30:22 31:4 32:2,19 33:4 27:12,25 29:20 defined 24:12

complex 30:11 consigning 35:1,8 36:6,11 29:24 47:10 28:11

compliance 42:4 49:25 36:13 39:24 52:13 defines 21:4

comply 25:4 constraint 38:11 40:7,11,13,14 covers 23:17,18 definition 4:1,13

41:24 construct 31:8 40:21,22,25 crane 31:9 6:14 8:6,20,21

components construction 41:2,7,7,10,12 crazy 54:20 10:22 17:17

42:8 31:8 41:15,15 46:7 create 50:3 23:3 24:10,11

compress 31:1 construed 24:11 46:14,16 49:5 created 18:8 degree 22:22

33:8 25:4 copyright 25:3 19:1 demand 41:4

compressed consumer 34:13 25:24 29:14 cry 53:20 Department

31:25 34:15 36:16 30:7,22 31:18 curiae 1:21 2:8 1:20

compulsory 52:15 31:20 32:6,8 19:15 depend 10:5

4:23 5:3,6,14 consumers 21:7 33:12 36:22,25 customers 6:13 Deputy 1:19

6:6 7:14 37:16 28:13 29:20,23 37:4,8,10,21 details 12:10 D45:7,8,12,21 30:17 32:11,23 37:24 45:6 19:1 20:17

D 1:17 2:3,13 45:23 53:22 33:14 36:12 46:23 48:19 21:22 34:7 3:1,7 51:21 54:8 43:2 51:10 53:10,23 determinative

D.C 1:10,17,20 computer 38:9 contemporane... copyrightfree 41:21 1:23computing 18:8 8:4 53:2 47:4 device 22:19

data 31:2418:9,10,12,25 content 13:2 copyrighted 23:5 38:7 date 25:2019:1 20:13 16:15,15,16 14:19 difference 10:9 DAVID 1:2328:5 39:7,21 18:10,22 21:2 cord 38:2 13:1,7,16 2:10 27:2242:10,25 43:17 21:6,8,12,17 correct 24:1 14:25 15:2,2,7

day 13:22 18:1 concede 25:11 21:19 26:17,17 27:8 31:15 15:9 16:6 55:1concept 46:9 26:19 27:18 41:16 45:21 35:20 44:19

deal 26:20 46:8 52:19,21 28:13 43:4,10 51:25 47:19,20 49:10 dealer 13:7concerned 27:6 43:12,14,19,24 correctly 45:14 52:1 dealer's 13:2249:23 44:7,19 47:16 cost 32:12,15 different 3:19 dealership 13:12concerns 7:16 48:3,25 49:16 51:7 7:19,25 8:23 dealing 26:1130:15 50:5,7,8,10,21 costs 30:14,18 8:24 9:6 12:21 36:10concert 10:17 50:25 51:15 counsel 19:11 15:12 17:23

deals 28:12conditions 5:6 53:18 54:10,22 42:16,23 51:18 19:7 21:17,19 debate 6:20conduct 52:22 context 11:20 55:7,8 33:20 37:13



59

39:1 40:23 38:13 empty 43:4 example 15:10 fairly 38:16

41:1,15 43:25 divvy 37:4 enable 3:11 22:16 25:15,16 fall 6:14 17:9

44:5,7 45:10 doctrine 6:15 29:23 25:24 familiar 20:16

45:22 47:7 23:16,19 enabled 16:12 examples 8:23 far 15:14 27:5

48:23 doing 9:22 11:1 enables 48:5 exclude 41:9 37:17

differentiate 19:20 28:24 enduser 12:2 47:20,22,23 fashion 39:10

12:22 29:22 32:5 endusers 11:24 48:1 favor 25:9 27:5

differently 34:25 46:10 13:3 excluding 47:24 feature 16:11

14:14 48:4 49:3 engaged 14:20 47:25 Federal 5:25

difficult 35:4 50:24 20:7 22:5 exclusion 48:3 22:18

digital 21:9 dollars 39:23 engaging 46:6,7 exclusive 23:13 fee 20:24

dime 4:13 32:19 51:7 enjoining 39:3 23:15 29:14 feeding 48:7

dimesize 30:9 doubt 24:8 entice 30:17 46:15 feet 13:8

dimesized download 7:20 entire 33:23 exempt 37:10 figure 37:4

31:17 41:13 entitle 39:2 exercising 35:6 fills 43:8

direct 49:21 downloaded entitled 27:15 existing 25:3 film 53:25

directly 7:16 49:16 equal 18:8 19:1 expand 42:20 find 5:2 15:13

disk 43:2 downloads 8:1 equipment 9:5 expansive 49:24 53:23 54:2

dispense 16:20 draw 21:24 12:9,11 19:25 experience fine 41:25

display 22:24 22:13 22:1 28:14,15 32:11 finish 24:16

23:5 drawn 18:7 29:25 33:13 explain 14:25 first 4:18 5:7

disposal 25:18 drive 9:16,18 41:5 43:5,15 44:22 45:5 6:15 15:5

25:19 drives 47:6 44:20 46:11 50:18 16:24 19:19

disseminated Dropbox 8:9 48:5,17 51:11 explains 52:14 21:6 23:15,19

39:13 9:11 51:12 exploits 14:19 40:19 48:24

dissent 30:20 due 54:20 equivalent 19:20 Express 22:18 51:25 54:7

distance 35:19 duplicate 28:24 escaping 38:11 extreme 22:7 fit 4:2

36:21 52:6 DVR 14:5 15:1,4 ESQ 1:17,19,23 extremes 21:4 fits 4:13

distant 35:14 16:6,14,22 2:3,6,10,13 22:2,12 FKA 1:7

36:1,4,6,14 32:13,14 38:2 essential 25:23 flow 23:16

38:25 40:21 43:13 26:12 F fly 10:2

distinction 7:22 50:23 51:6 essentially 13:3 facilitating focus 16:10,13

18:6,7 21:3,4 DVRs 29:23 29:8 44:20 football 33:23

25:23 36:4 30:1 42:15,19 et 1:4 24:8 facilities 9:7 footnote 5:9

41:4 46:21 48:15 European 24:25 14:6 forecloses 3:15

47:21 48:20,25 everybody 17:6 facility 4:2 Fortnightly

49:9 50:13 E 22:3 40:14 fact 16:8 33:7 14:12 20:3

distinguish E 2:1 3:1,1 43:13 34:10 50:24 37:6 49:6

15:21 ears 44:2 everybody's 53:10 forward 16:20

distributed easier 40:13 3:25 44:25 factors 36:16 fraction 32:14

25:20 easily 17:25 18:4 exact 48:18 facts 30:21 34:8 freaked 39:21

distributes effect 15:16 exactly 5:18 39:1 Frederick 1:23

22:18,20 efficiency 30:18 14:11 17:5 factual 34:9 2:10 6:2 27:21

distribution 8:2 30:21 29:23 32:14 fair 27:15 29:21 27:22,24 29:3

26:12 46:22 either 37:21,24 33:6 44:6 36:8,12,15 29:6,12 30:2,3

District 52:13 electronically 46:17 47:1,17 46:16,17 49:4 30:10 31:19

disturbs 38:12 22:23 49:12 50:19 50:20 32:9,23 33:25



60

34:5,18,21 32:17 42:4 39:17 40:16,20 hypotheticals infringement

35:9,11,15,18 43:20 43:10 45:6 22:11 46:9 49:22

35:23 37:14,19 giving 32:21 46:18 52:12 infringing 35:1

38:21,24 40:15 go 5:1 7:11 53:13 I initial 16:9

41:3,16 42:7 12:18 14:4 hard 8:16 9:16 iCloud 8:9 39:13

43:25 44:4,11 15:15 27:3 9:18 22:13 idea 27:1 46:10 initiate 40:20

45:16,20 46:2 28:25 31:2 27:4 43:2 iDrop 12:18 initiates 28:15

46:19,25 47:19 33:11 34:6 harder 21:23 ignore 7:4 37:7 28:16 43:22

48:13 50:2,11 53:9,12,19 hardware 9:3,15 image 39:17 51:14

51:5 52:1,8 goes 10:12 23:4 9:24 10:5,6,7 images 23:6 initiating 31:23

free 20:24 33:15 42:24 48:22 11:1,4,8 12:15 34:24 39:19

36:18 47:3 going 10:8 11:2 hassles 33:10 imperil 20:11 initiation 34:11

49:5 12:16 13:12,14 HBO 35:21,23 49:1 injunction 29:18

French 53:25 13:20 14:13 54:11,17,21,23 implausible 39:2

friend 50:12 16:20,20,21,24 head 28:10 14:11 insight 52:11

friends 25:25 16:25 17:20 hear 3:3 29:11 implicate 36:2,3 install 37:23

26:2 19:6 23:22 45:3 36:18 39:20 installed 48:15

frighten 43:17 25:10 32:19 hearing 17:6 implicates 29:13 instance 16:24

frightened 44:24 38:15 39:20 held 17:9 27:13 35:19 39:14 20:22 21:7

fully 25:4 46:1,2 48:11 29:20 implications 22:2 48:24

functional 19:20 52:24 53:22 hey 13:9 19:5 43:15 intended 22:9

functionality 54:19 holder 29:14 impliedinlaw interested 6:17

30:14 good 22:14 53:10 49:7 7:6

fundamental 50:17 54:1 holders 37:5 important 7:9 international

13:1 16:5 government 7:4 home 11:2 12:15 11:13 26:4 24:18,24 25:5

51:25 17:16 33:16 22:3 29:25 50:14 25:9

further 46:20 43:19 48:20 30:18 33:19 imposed 38:12 Internet 3:17

51:16 49:5 35:7 36:5 including 12:25 13:6 20:20

government's 37:23 40:16,17 incompatibility 30:3,23 31:2 G 27:7 40:21 44:1 24:18 31:23 32:1

G 3:1 group 7:6 42:11 49:11 50:22 incompatible Internetacces... game 33:23,24 guess 8:11 16:19 52:17 24:20 33:8 garage 14:2,2,3 20:16 homes 48:14 indication 18:15 Internetbased 14:4 guide 44:16 Honor 31:20 indirect 45:19 21:5

general 1:19 54:16 indisputably interpret 17:21 20:18 H Honors 55:6 41:8 interpretation

generally 20:12 half 9:13 house 9:18 individual 16:25 33:2 39:5 geographical hall 10:17 14:17 21:17 22:5 49:24 10:24 hand 50:4,6 Hulu 47:15,24 27:2 30:13 interpretations

getting 31:24 53:18 hundreds 50:18 40:6 49:15 28:4 gimmick 53:19 handling 43:18 hybrid 20:15 individually interrupt 13:18 Ginsburg 24:15 hapless 52:10 hypo 9:25 11:7 43:8 invested 39:22 30:2,4,11 31:3 happen 3:14 hypos 10:1 individuals invite 25:25 37:14,19 43:20 17:25 41:11 hypothetical 26:13 involve 54:25 44:1,12 48:7 50:22 15:23 17:2 industry 39:7,21 involved 7:17,18 48:18 51:2,10 happened 26:7 29:12 34:11 42:10 43:15,17 9:25

give 6:9,22 29:8 happens 28:14 36:1 49:23 involving 7:3



61

issue 16:6 27:11 54:12,14 55:7 let's 10:12 15:20 14:11,14 22:1 31:16 32:5

29:19 37:12 Justice's 32:4 levels 30:12 22:11 41:11 35:21 41:25

39:1 40:15 53:15 liability 50:1 46:13 51:8 43:12 53:25

42:5 liable 8:21 49:21 52:13 means 39:15

It'd 40:12 K license 4:23 5:4 looked 13:10 mechanism Kagan 9:12 10:4 5:6,14 6:6 7:14 14:12 52:23 21:13

J 11:6 18:16,23 8:2,2,5 12:6,8 looking 3:24 member 28:22 James 53:23 21:14 44:4,12 12:12 16:8 19:23 20:2 members 4:14 Judge 30:4,19 50:2,11 18:13 27:9 looks 16:14 25:21 26:3,10 52:14 Kennedy 15:18 37:16 45:7,8 38:11 44:8 26:13

Justice 1:20 3:3 15:24 26:20 45:12,21 46:22 lot 5:14 16:14 menu 43:21 44:9 3:9,21,24 4:10 33:3,18 34:1,3 49:7 53:9,17 22:8 23:19 44:10,11 4:17,25 5:16 34:10,15,19 54:8,24,25 28:12 merely 44:19,20 5:19,22 6:7,24 48:23 licensed 16:23 lots 5:5 18:19 merit 25:12 7:8 8:6,7,18 key 41:4 46:21 20:20 49:20 22:11 31:1 middle 22:12 9:10,12,13 kick 54:4 licenses 16:21 52:24 million 28:24 10:4 11:6 12:5 kind 25:22 38:7 18:11 45:23 lower 30:13,18 45:2 12:8,18 13:16 50:8 licensing 53:22 millions 18:20 13:18,25 14:10 kinds 38:15 41:5 life 17:14 M 29:8 14:23 15:13,18 know 6:7 10:13 light 24:11 machine 23:10 mind 11:13 15:24 16:7 12:10 13:22 limited 44:14 magic 55:5 16:22 42:6 17:5,20,22 14:2,8 15:14 line 21:24,25 mails 24:3 mini 3:17 18:16,23 19:11 15:19 17:2 22:14 27:6 making 10:2 minimum 52:5 19:16,22 20:14 21:22 23:20 50:3 21:23 25:12,14 minutes 23:23 21:14 22:15 32:12 41:25 lines 9:14 25:23 34:23 36:11 40:18,19 51:19 23:2,8,14 44:2 45:13 little 4:12 19:4 40:12 41:10 misconstrues 24:15,25 26:20 50:4 31:1 32:18 46:10,14 48:2 25:6 27:19,25 28:20 live 3:12 7:22 MALCOLM missed 40:19 29:4,7,13 30:2 L 8:4 1:19 2:6 19:13 mixed 5:1 30:4,11 31:3 L 1:19 2:6 19:13 living 32:13 manufacturer model 3:11 6:5 31:13 32:3,10 LABS 1:8 local 29:21 22:4 31:15 41:23 32:16,25 33:3 language 12:24 35:10 36:10,11 market 18:14 47:7 33:18 34:1,3 Laughter 13:17 37:1,1,9,20 masquerading modules 42:8,25 34:10,15,19 38:20,23 41:19 38:5 44:14 28:6 momentarily 35:9,12,16,20 42:2 46:21 47:3,5 massive 43:16 25:18 35:25 37:14,19 law 25:3 45:6 49:2,7,11 master 41:7,7 money 20:25 38:3 40:10,17 47:21 locally 52:3 materially 3:18 month 48:16 40:24 4

Aereo Supreme Court Transcript

Documents

Transcript of Aereo Supreme Court Transcript