A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the...

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A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member : His Honour Judge Peter Smithwick For the Tribunal : Mrs. Mary Laverty, SC Mr. Justin Dillon, SC Mr. Dara Hayes, BL Mr. Fintan Valentine, BL Instructed by: Jane McKevitt Solicitor For the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana : Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael Durack, SC Mr. Gareth Baker, BL Instructed by: Mary Cummins CSSO For Owen Corrigan : Mr. Jim O'Callaghan, SC Mr. Darren Lehane, BL Instructed by: Fintan Lawlor Lawlor Partners Solicitors For Leo Colton : Mr. Paul Callan, SC Mr. Eamon Coffey, BL Instructed by: Dermot Lavery Solicitors

Transcript of A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the...

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A P P E A R A N C E S

The Sole Member: His Honour Judge Peter Smithwick

For the Tribunal: Mrs. Mary Laverty, SCMr. Justin Dillon, SCMr. Dara Hayes, BLMr. Fintan Valentine, BL

Instructed by: Jane McKevitt

Solicitor

For the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC

Mr. Michael Durack, SCMr. Gareth Baker, BL

Instructed by: Mary CumminsCSSO

For Owen Corrigan: Mr. Jim O'Callaghan, SCMr. Darren Lehane, BL

Instructed by: Fintan Lawlor Lawlor Partners Solicitors

For Leo Colton: Mr. Paul Callan, SCMr. Eamon Coffey, BL

Instructed by: Dermot Lavery Solicitors

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For Finbarr Hickey: Fionnuala O'Sullivan, BL

Instructed by: James MacGuill & Co.

For the Attorney General: Ms. Nuala Butler, SCMr. Douglas Clarke, SC

Instructed by: CSSO

For Freddie Scappaticci: Niall Mooney, BLPauline O'Hare

Instructed by: Michael FlaniganSolicitor

For Kevin Fulton: Mr. Neil Rafferty, QC

Instructed by: John McAtamneySolicitor

For Breen Family: Mr. John McBurney

For Buchanan Family/Heather Currie: Ernie Waterworth

McCartan Turkington BreenSolicitors

NOTICE: A WORD INDEX IS PROVIDED AT THE BACK OF THIS TRANSCRIPT. THIS IS A USEFUL INDEXING SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO QUICKLY SEE THE WORDS USED IN THE TRANSCRIPT, WHERE THEY OCCUR AND HOW OFTEN.

EXAMPLE: - DOYLE [2] 30:28 45:17

THE WORD “DOYLE” OCCURS TWICEPAGE 30, LINE 28PAGE 45, LINE 17

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I N D E X

Witness Page No. Line No.

KEVIN FULTON

CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN 2 1

CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. DURACK 109 5

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THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED ON THE 15TH OF DECEMBER, 2011,

AS FOLLOWS:

CHAIRMAN: Good morning.

MR. HAYES: Good morning, Chairman. I think before the

cross-examination resumes, I think just the room needs to

be cleared so that the witness can be brought back in. So

if the public could leave for a few moments.

(Members of the public then withdrew.)

CHAIRMAN: You are already sworn, so you don't need to be

sworn again.

(Members of the public then returned.)

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KEVIN FULTON CONTINUED TO BE CROSS-EXAMINED BY

MR. O'CALLAGHAN AS FOLLOWS:

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Morning, Mr. Keeley.

A. Good morning.

Q. Yesterday, Mr. Keeley, I had put to you some of the 1

evidence given by former RUC members about your credibility

and I'd asked you to comment upon their evidence, do you

recall that?

A. I do, yes.

Q. I concluded yesterday by referring you to an RUC witness 2

who goes under the title in this Tribunal of Witness 71, do

you recall that?

A. Witness 71, I do know who Witness 71 is, yes.

Q. I didn't really need you or want you to look at the cipher, 3

but you are aware of Witness 71, isn't that so?

A. Now, the Witness 71 that I have may be a different witness

than the person we were looking at yesterday.

Q. Can I just identify for you, without dealing with the 4

cipher, who Witness 71 is and what evidence he gave. He

gave evidence here last Monday.

A. Yes.

Q. He says that he was in the Drug Squad in Belfast in the RUC 5

in 1996. He says that whilst he was in the Drug Squad, you

literally came in off the street into the police station

and offered information in relation to drug activity in the

Newry area, would that be your recollection?

A. I do know the person, yes, yes.

Q. OK. Witness 71 gave positive evidence about you in terms 6

of your credibility, he was - being blunt with you - one of

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only two RUC officers who did give positive evidence in

respect of your credibility, of those who had met you. I

asked him if he was aware of any incidents where you gave

him inaccurate information?

A. Right.

Q. And he gave me the following response, I just want to read 7

it out to you and then I want to ask you a question on it?

A. Yes.

Q. He says: "If I can give you an example of something?" I 8

said, "Please do." His answer is as follows: "When he was

involved in the activities of Luigi Marotta, the people

that he was reporting on in the IRA were making a trip to

Turkey to the rebels in the mountains there who had a lot

of artefacts which were stolen during the Kuwait war and

one artefact in a particular was a Torah, and he supplied

photographs of it and all the information relating to it.

I was aware of the people in Derry going to Turkey to view

this material and it didn't materialise. And it just,

everything just seemed to disappear. I'm not saying that

it's something that wasn't going to happen, it just didn't

happen and I never actually found out the reason why it

didn't happen."

Is Witness 71 correct in stating that that information that

you gave him was inaccurate?

A. No, actually, it's not inaccurate. Those people in Derry

did go to Istanbul, they then did meet with members of the

PKK, and eventually the Torah was recovered by Israeli

Special Forces. So the thing is, the operation may not

have went ahead with the RUC. The RUC should have been

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aware that those people did travel, the same people that I

named, to Istanbul and meet with those people.

Q. Did you travel out to Istanbul as well? 9

A. No, I did not.

Q. How did you become aware of this particular Torah? 10

A. The people that I was dealing with in Derry were IRA

activists and everything else, they had contacts between --

someone in north of England who had contacts out there that

came up with this stuff. So I reported that back to my

handlers. Now, when an agent or informant is getting

things, you are not in control of an operation; if someone

says we are going to do a robbery, you report that in. If

that robbery doesn't take place, it's not the agent's or

the informant's fault. But the thing is, there was

evidence that those people that I gave their names did go

to Turkey and did meet with PKK.

Q. Where did you get the photograph of the Torah? 11

A. I would have got that off one of the people in that group.

Q. In which group? 12

A. Of the people from Derry. Do you want me to name them?

Q. I am just asking questions? 13

A. Yeah, I am only asking you. These people have been

convicted with Marotta on different things as well, not

just the Torah thing; they were already done for major

fraud.

Q. Yes.14

A. Yes.

Q. But the reason Witness 71 referred to this, is that he 15

regarded the information you had given him as being

inaccurate. Do you agree with that?

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A. No, I don't agree that it was inaccurate, it was totally

accurate.

Q. And a number of witnesses from the RUC, and I have 16

identified some of them, and indeed, a member of An Garda

Siochana, and indeed, a member of the Provisional IRA,

Mr. 'Mooch' Blair, have given evidence in respect of you,

and surprising, all of them agree on one thing, and they

agree on the fact that you are not a person to be trusted

when you give evidence or information about incidents that

happened in the past. Why do you think, Mr. Keeley, that

they are all in agreement on that point?

A. Number one, I wouldn't agree with it at all. I mean, I

gave information in the past and people have been arrested

and convicted of serious crimes. Again, what I will say is

that -- one of the Special Branch officers, I can't

remember the cipher code for him, but, yes, he did lie in

his evidence to you, sir.

Q. OK. 17

A. Yes.

Q. Have you ever lied or given information that you know to be 18

false to any of the agencies you were working for?

A. I already told you yesterday I did and I have been on

record for many years for doing that and my reasons for

doing so.

Q. Is the evidence you gave in respect of Paddy Shanaghan, the 19

only time upon which you lied to an agency to whom you were

providing information?

A. Again, I told you yesterday that the thing with the dumps

in England, the real reasons why those dumps went in was to

purchase weapons, and Special Branch were aware of that.

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And it was wrong for that same witness that lied to this

Tribunal to say that they were not aware of it.

Q. OK. But is your account of Paddy Shanaghan and your 20

alleged ability to identify incriminating evidence, is that

the only time you have lied to your handlers, Mr. Keeley?

A. That is the only ones I can think of at the minute, unless

you know anything else.

Q. We will come to them in due course. But as far as you are 21

concerned, that is the only time?

A. That is all I can remember at the moment, yes.

Q. Why do you think former distinguished members of the Royal 22

Ulster Constabulary would come down here and give evidence

about you to the effect that you are a fantasist, an

intelligence nuisance and an individual not to be trusted,

why would they do that?

A. The thing is, you are talking about there Special Branch.

Special Branch are different than ordinary policemen, sir.

Special Branch, especially with the RUC, were not trusted

by many of their own colleagues. Special Branch used those

words, what was it again? Fantasist, Walter Mitty.

Q. Fantasist, Walter Mitty. I think it was the Chief 23

Constable of the RUC that described you as a Walter Mitty?

A. And fantasist. Yeah, but that was before, and he seems to

have admitted, before he was in full facts of the

information from handlers. That information that led to

that remark came from Special Branch. This was all to do

with stuff over the Omagh bombing. Those remarks were made

by Ronnie Flanagan, who later apologised to police officer

71, because at that time 71 had actually told me that

Ronnie had been given wrong information. I didn't believe

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it. From that moment, I blamed Ronnie Flanagan on knowing

the full facts until not too lately until I heard

differently, and --

Q. Sorry to interrupt you. Do you have any explanation as to 24

why these former distinguished officers would state under

oath that you were a person who was a fantasist and not to

be trusted?

A. Maybe it's a reason because maybe some of those officers

who I didn't know were Special Branch handled the people

that handled me, and as I have said before on the record,

sir, I have done things that I am not proud of, things that

my handlers know that I have done and are party to it.

Maybe it's a case of if I go down the road they are coming

with me. So in everybody's case, it's actually good to

discredit someone who can do them harm. Maybe that is the

reason for doing so.

Q. OK. Can you appreciate why the Chairman and, indeed, other 25

individuals associated with this Tribunal, would be or

would question your credibility in light of what evidence

has been given here by the RUC officers?

A. Well, I think in time to come, sir, there may be other

evidence that people have lied to you in this Tribunal and,

please, I hope that you will get that proof.

Q. But that wasn't my question. Can you appreciate why, 26

perhaps the Chairman, certainly individuals associated with

this Tribunal, would question your credibility, if

individuals from the RUC have come down here and, under

oath, described you as a fantasist?

A. But what I am saying is under oath, these same people told

you lies.

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Q. OK. So your evidence to the Chairman is that the members 27

of the RUC who described you as an intelligence nuisance,

fantasist, and who gave the examples of you misleading

them, that they were lying to the Chairman of this

Tribunal?

A. They did lie in their evidence to you, sir, yes.

Q. OK. Mr. Keeley, yesterday your evidence was that you were 28

aware that the IRA had a friend in the Garda Siochana and

that friend was Owen Corrigan, isn't that correct?

A. That is correct, yes.

Q. When you side that Owen Corrigan was a friend of the IRA, 29

am I correct in interpreting you as meaning that Owen

Corrigan was assisting the IRA?

A. Yes, he assisted the IRA, yes.

Q. Will you tell the Chairman when did you first become aware 30

that Mr. Corrigan was assisting the IRA?

A. Many years even before that, I had met him in the car park,

I had heard his name mentioned with the unit in Dundalk,

that he had helped the unit.

Q. Could you try and be more specific, Mr. Keeley, as to when, 31

by date, you first became aware that Owen Corrigan was

assisting the IRA?

A. By date, I couldn't, sir, but one instance I was told of as

well many years ago was after the Narrow Water bombing,

that it was said that Owen Corrigan had helped the IRA at

that time.

Q. Now, Mr. Keeley, you weren't in the IRA at the time of the 32

Narrow Water bombing?

A. No, but I had heard it after that, yes.

Q. OK. So when did you hear that? 33

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A. I can't remember the exact date, sir.

Q. The Narrow Water bombing was in August 1979, isn't that 34

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. You got involved with the IRA or you started to, I think 35

your language was hang around with 'Mooch' Blair in around

1981 or 1982, isn't that so?

A. That is correct, yes.

Q. Did you become aware of Owen Corrigan's alleged assistance 36

at that time?

A. It would have been around that time, and while I was

hanging around with 'Mooch' Blair and people like that in

Dundalk.

Q. OK. So you would date it to 1981 or 1982? 37

A. I wouldn't put an exact date on it, sir.

Q. I am asking you to do your best to put a general -- 38

A. I am just saying to you I can't put an exact date on it.

Q. Well, was it before you went to prison in November 1985? 39

A. Again, I can't exactly remember the date.

Q. Was it after you came out of prison in November 1986? 40

A. Again, we can go on all day like this; I cannot remember

the exact date, sir.

Q. So you can't recall the date upon which you first became 41

aware that Owen Corrigan was assisting the IRA, is that

correct?

A. Why would I need to remember an exact date for something?

It was not so big in my eyes or important, you know. I

have come across where even RUC men have helped the IRA as

well, you know. So why would I remember one date for Owen

Corrigan? It was not a big thing in my calender.

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Q. Well, I have to suggest to you, Mr. Keeley, that you at the 42

time, according to you, were working as a double agent for

British military intelligence, isn't that so?

A. Yes.

Q. Would you not agree with me that for you to find out, in 43

1981 or 1982, before you were officially a member, that

there was a guard in Dundalk who was working for the

Provisional IRA, that was astonishing information that you

had?

A. It may be astonishing to you. I mean, people keep saying

oh, this is astonishing, it's not. When it becomes a

day-to-day thing with people, there's no big thing. It's

the same with gun and bomb attacks; it is no big thing when

you are dealing with it daily.

Q. When you became aware of it for the first time, did you go 44

back to your handlers and inform them: By the way, I have

got a piece of fascinating information for you, there is a

guard in Dundalk called Corrigan who is an IRA mole, did

you do that?

A. I would have mentioned that to handlers, yes, there is no

doubt about it. And again, I would have mentioned it years

ago -- years in another debrief when MI5 took over in

England, because they took me back through everything that

I had done with other people as well.

Q. Can we stick at the time, because when you became involved 45

with 'Mooch' Blair, you regularly reported back to your

handlers as to what is happening?

A. I would have, yes.

Q. So can we take it that at some stage, you can't specify the 46

date, at some stage you would have reported back to them,

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by the way there is a guard in Dundalk who is an IRA mole?

A. That would have been, yes.

Q. And you reported that to your handler? 47

A. I would have reported that at some stage to my handler,

yes.

Q. Could you write down the name of the handler on a piece of 48

paper, please?

A. Do you want me to do all the handlers?

Q. No, I just want you to identify the man to whom you 49

identified in the first instance that Owen Corrigan was

working as an IRA mole. The gentleman whose name or the

person whose name you wrote down, was he a member of

British military intelligence?

A. He would have been army intelligence.

Q. Army intelligence at the time? 50

A. Yes.

Q. When you brought this to his attention, what was his 51

reaction?

A. Just like any time you give them any information, they take

it and that is it. Why would they give a big -- there's no

big thing with it.

Q. I have to suggest to you this was an enormous achievement; 52

within a couple of years of you involving yourself with

'Mooch' Blair, you were able to report back to your

handlers that you'd effectively identified a double agent,

isn't that so?

A. You might think it's a big thing. It's just someone who

helped the IRA, it's like anything else.

Q. And you didn't think it was a big thing that there was a 53

guard in Dundalk helping the IRA?

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A. No, because there was policemen in the North helping the

IRA as well.

Q. We will come to that in due course as well. 54

A. I am just saying to you, it's no big thing. Maybe to

people not within the IRA or intelligence, it may be a big

thing, but it's not.

Q. Did your handlers ask you to get more information on this 55

Garda mole?

A. I would be instructed to get any information on anything,

not specific things, just anything at all that comes up,

tell them what happened.

Q. Did they ask you to follow up Corrigan and get more 56

information about him?

A. No, because how could you follow him up? As I said from

the start, I never asked questions of nobody, and that is

how I got on well with the IRA and that is how I moved into

it. If you start asking questions when you are going about

with people like that, you are going to end up at the side

of the road. You will be murdered.

Q. In your book, you write about how your handlers expressed 57

great satisfaction when you had an achievement in getting

closer to the IRA, isn't that so?

A. Again, there was two ghost writers did the book. For legal

reasons, I don't want to answer questions on the book

because of ongoing inquiries by the PSNI. There are a

number of lines of inquiry and the book is one of those

lines.

Q. You have nothing to worry about that, Mr. Keeley, because 58

the Attorney General of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

has written a letter to the Chairman of this Tribunal

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stating that you have complete immunity in respect of what

you state in the witness-box, so you have nothing to worry

about that.

A. I know there is a letter of that, but also the Tribunal may

be aware that three journalists, two from England and one

from Northern Ireland, one a former editor of a newspaper

who was a registered Special Branch informant, has passed

information on to the PSNI without a court order, that may

harm my defence in any future case, sir, and at the start I

would love to have been able to speak quite openly about

everything with immunity from prosecution, but

unfortunately, I don't believe that is the case anymore.

Therefore, with respect, to you, sir, and sir, to you, I

feel I cannot answer those certain questions. I mean, I am

being investigated in a number of inquiries by the PSNI,

this last five years, and I believe certain things if I am

taken down the road, may harm a defence that I would have

by talking about it even here.

Q. We will come to that later, but you are aware of the 59

immunity?

A. Well, I've just -- I am aware of the immunity and with

great respect to that immunity, but the police

investigation that has been started and everything else,

you know, I cannot go down certain roads, sir, because of

information passed that may harm my defence by the former

editor of an English newspaper based in Northern Ireland

who was a Special Branch informant.

MR. RAFFERTY: I think, possibly, and I don't want to

interrupt the flow of My Friend, I think that it perhaps is

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of noteworthiness that a number of investigations that,

into historical inquiries have been passed to the

historical inquiries team, but I think that there are

currently nine live investigations that have been retained

with the PSNI solely in respect of Mr. Keeley, so I think

there is a certain degree of circumspection needed in how

the book is handled.

Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: I will try and deal with it this way: 60

Will you write down the name of the journalist that is

causing you concern?

A. No, sir, with the greatest of respect to you, if I give you

the name of the journalist it goes no further than you,

yeah?

CHAIRMAN: It goes no further than me.

A. That is okay, I have no problem.

(Handed to the Chairman.)

Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Mr. Keeley, I now want to ask you about 61

the type of assistance that you allege Owen Corrigan

provided to the IRA. You said a few moments ago that you

heard he had provided assistance in respect of the Narrow

Water investigation, is that correct?

A. That is correct, yes.

Q. That was in August 1979, you had no involvement with the 62

IRA at that time?

A. Absolutely none, no.

Q. You had just joined up in the British Army at that time? 63

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A. Yes, yes.

Q. What did you hear about his involvement in Narrow Water? 64

A. I had heard that some of the evidence that was held by the

garda was something to do with a motorbike or something or

firing mechanism or something went missing after the garda

had got evidence.

Q. OK. 65

A. Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but that is what I

heard.

Q. I just want to try and be specific with you. So what you 66

heard was that a piece of evidence, you think perhaps a

motorbike?

A. Something to do with a motorbike or a firing line, you know

a firing pack, yes.

Q. And that this had been a piece of evidence that had been 67

obtained at the scene by An Garda Siochana?

A. Must have been.

Q. Is that what you believe it to be, because you are the 68

person who heard this now?

A. You have never heard this before?

Q. I've never heard it from you before. 69

A. But I have heard that, yes.

Q. Can you be detailed? You have no difficulty in talking 70

when you want to talk about certain matters, I'd like you

to elaborate and be articulate about this?

A. That is all I have heard. How can I elaborate any more?

Either part of a motorbike or firing pack, evidence had

went missing, that is the easiest way to put that.

Q. Who did you hear this from? 71

A. I can't remember who I heard that from.

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Q. Did you hear it from a member of the Provisional IRA? 72

A. More than likely it would have been, yes. I can't remember

the exact person. There is lots of things were said.

Q. OK. So you think you heard from a member of the 73

Provisional IRA that Owen Corrigan had assisted in

destroying evidence, is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you hear that? 74

A. Again, sir, I am not great on dates. I can't remember the

exact date. Can you remember what you did two weeks ago,

can you, at 9:30 a.m. on Monday morning?

Q. I am sure I could. 75

A. Well, you are very good.

Q. I am asking you about this particular Narrow Water 76

investigation. You heard that Owen Corrigan assisted in

destroying evidence?

A. Yes.

Q. Yes. Are you aware that Owen Corrigan had no involvement 77

in the investigation into Narrow Water?

A. I have no idea that he had any involvement or no

involvement in it, no.

Q. He had no involvement other than questioning one man called 78

Burns, that is his --

A. Brendan Burns it was, yeah.

Q. Brendan Burns. He had no involvement. He was not involved 79

in the scene at the detonation of the bomb. Does that

cause you any concern about the accuracy of the information

you had given?

A. No, you just asked me what I heard and I told you what I

had heard.

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Q. I followed it up by asking you does that cause you any 80

concern about the accuracy of the information that you were

given?

A. Concern to me, I'm just repeating what I had heard because

you had asked me the question. It doesn't matter -- I

mean, it is nothing to do with me, you know.

Q. Does it cause you concern about the accuracy? You were 81

told, and presumably you believed, that Owen Corrigan had

interfered in that investigation?

A. That is what I had been told.

Q. And did you believe that? 82

A. Maybe at the time, yes, I do. And did he or did he not, I

don't know.

Q. I know, but you were told it, isn't that so?83

A. Yes.

Q. And you believed it when you were told it?84

A. I just repeated what I was told.

Q. But is it fair to say that you believed it?85

A. Sometimes I don't believe everything I am told.

Q. OK. 86

A. Yes.

Q. But you included it in your statement to the Inquiry, isn't 87

that correct?

A. Read it out to me. I can't remember my statement to this

Inquiry.

Q. This is what you said in your statement, which was signed 88

on the 1st of March this year, not that long ago and you

state the following: "I can't say when I first became

aware that Owen Corrigan was a friend of Dundalk

republicans. I have heard lots of stories from 'Mooch' and

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in particular in relation to the Narrow Water bomb. While

you might take it as a big thing, it was no big thing; it

was a story I had heard which had been ongoing over a long

period of time. In relation to Narrow Water BB" - which I

presume is Brendan Burns - "was caught on the motorbike

with wires or something, and apparently stuff disappeared

as well. They should have had him bang to rights, they

should have had, in police terms, enough to do him either

for a bomb or for membership, but apparently all the

evidence disappeared. He wasn't charged. The suggestion

was that the 'friend' had taken care of it, but I don't

know if this is true or not"?

A. Yes.

Q. And you stand over -- that is your account of your 89

knowledge of Narrow Water?

A. Yes.

Q. When I tell you that Owen Corrigan was not involved in the 90

investigation on the ground, would you agree with me it's

very difficult and unlikely that he could have interfered

with that investigation?

A. Well, you are telling me that now, I will have to take your

word for that.

Q. But in fairness to Mr. Corrigan, do you not think it's very 91

unlikely that he could have interfered with evidence if he

wasn't involved in the investigation on the ground?

A. I don't know what way their evidence was stored. I am only

telling you. You asked me a question, let me finish, you

know. I don't know what way their procedures were in

Dundalk when evidence was taken or anything else. Is a

person able to tamper with stuff? I don't know. You will

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have to go into the garda and find out what way they

operated.

Q. Yes. So in effect, Mr. Keeley, you have no evidence, 92

really, to suggest that Owen Corrigan compromised Narrow

Water, isn't that a fair assessment?

A. I am saying that is what I heard and -- I didn't say it's

evidence, it is what I have been told.

Q. In fairness to Mr. Corrigan, it's a serious allegation to 93

make against him, and you have made more serious ones. You

don't have any evidence to substantiate the Narrow Water

investigation?

A. Just what was said.

Q. OK. And do you think 'Mooch' Blair said that to you? 94

A. More than likely it was 'Mooch'. 'Mooch' was a person I

went about with most in the IRA, yes.

Q. You told the Chairman yesterday about three alleged events 95

in which you say Owen Corrigan provided assistance to the

IRA: The first being the murder of Chief Superintendent

Breen and Superintendent Buchanan; the second being the

seizure of explosives in Omeath; the third being the

setting-up of Tom Oliver. Now, what other type of

assistance, leaving aside those three, but by the time of

the murder of the two RUC officers in March 1989, when Owen

Corrigan -- when the name "our friend helped us out" was

mentioned to you by Mr. A, you were aware that was Owen

Corrigan, weren't you?

A. That is who I took it to be, yes.

Q. So what assistance had he provided to the IRA prior to 96

that?

A. What do you mean "prior to that"?

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Q. Prior to the 20th of March, 1989, what assistance had Owen 97

Corrigan provided to the IRA?

A. Well, I told you what I was told, the stories I was told by

'Mooch' and them people about the Omeath stuff.

Q. No, I am not trying to trick you out. Omeath was in August 98

1989, some five months after the murders of the two RUC

officers. So on the day of the murder of the RUC officers,

when Mr. A said to you "our friend helped us out", you must

have -- you couldn't have known about Omeath at the time,

isn't that so?

A. I'm on about Omeath. The first thing in Omeath you are on

about, the Narrow Water thing, that is what I am on about.

Q. OK, you are saying that when you were told on the 20th of 99

March, 1989, that "our friend helped us out," that you

thought it's Corrigan, is that so?

A. Absolutely. It's the only person in the guards, that's our

only friend that I knew about.

Q. The question I am asking you: What assistance - you have 100

mentioned Narrow Water, but you just heard that from

someone - what assistance do you know as a member of the

IRA at the time that Owen Corrigan had provided the IRA

with?

A. I knew he helped the IRA, so I took it that it was him,

yes.

Q. Mr. Keeley, you were a member of the IRA at the time in 101

1989, isn't that so?

A. Yes.

Q. Tell the Chairman specifically what assistance Owen 102

Corrigan had given the IRA prior to the 20th of March,

1989?

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A. I can't give specifics or -- just going through it again.

We can knock about this all the time.

Q. Mr. Keeley, we are going to spend a lot of time on this, 103

so...

A. That is just what I am saying. It's things that I have

been told by people in the IRA about Owen Corrigan, "our

friend".

Q. Give examples to the Chairman? 104

A. We already talked about examples there now, we did.

Q. What examples are you talking about?105

A. We already talked about the Narrow Water stuff, the stuff

in Omeath that I was told about.

Q. Narrow Water is one? 106

A. Yes.

Q. And that was in 1979. You can't recall who told you, and 107

you don't know whether it was true?

A. Well, there is no way of knowing anything you are told by

somebody else is totally true, all you can do is repeat

what they have said.

Q. Give me another example of Owen Corrigan providing 108

assistance to the IRA prior to March 1989?

A. The only other things I can give is the Tom Oliver stuff.

Q. That was 1991? 109

A. Yes.

Q. Give me another example? 110

A. I can't give you any more examples because I have none of

that, is there?

Q. You have no examples of this man assisting the IRA, and yet 111

you are able to tell this Chairman on the 20th of March

when you hear Mr. A, who by the way has been named here as

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Mickey Collins, when you hear Mickey Collins coming in and

telling you about the two RUC officers killed and telling

you that "our friend assisted in the operation," you say,

after that, that you knew that was Owen Corrigan?

A. Well, Owen Corrigan is the only person that I knew that

helped them in the Garda station. I didn't know of anybody

else that helped the IRA that was a member of the guards.

Q. And aside from the Narrow Water matter which happened in 112

1979, at a time when you weren't even out of the British

Army in the IRA, give the Chairman another example of

assistance that Owen Corrigan gave the IRA?

A. I can't actually give the Chairman anything because I don't

have any of those.

Q. Of course you don't? 113

A. No, I know I don't, but I never said I did, did I?

Q. You have come in and you've said that Owen Corrigan 114

assisted the IRA?

A. Yes.

Q. And you can't give one example to the Chairman during your 115

time in the IRA of that happening?

A. I can't give any extra because I don't know of any other

times.

Q. And you are absolutely correct, and the reason you don't 116

know of any other times is because Owen Corrigan didn't

assist the PIRA?

A. Well, I can say Owen Corrigan did assist the PIRA.

Q. Give the Chairman an example prior to the 20th of March? 117

A. You are saying prior to dates. I will give you exactly

what there was there, the things I have heard. I can't

give you any more because I don't have any more. He can

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bang on about dates and prior to this and prior to that. I

gave you what I have heard about the involvement with Owen

Corrigan. I cannot give you any more because I don't have

any anymore.

Q. And we will come to look at the Fintan Callan Céilí House 118

and the 20th of March, the day of the murders. But just to

conclude, is it your evidence to the Chairman that you

cannot give him any specific examples of Owen Corrigan

assisting the IRA prior to the 20th of March, 1989?

A. That would be correct, yes.

Q. When did you first meet Owen Corrigan? 119

A. When did I first meet him?

Q. Yes.120

A. What would you count by meeting him? I mean, I have seen

him in the cars with the Garda Special Branch.

Q. When did you first see him? 121

A. I can't remember a year or date.

Q. When did you first meet him? 122

A. What do you mean when did I first meet him? Personally?

Q. It's a simple question, Mr. Keeley: When did you first 123

meet him? You were asked yesterday when did you first meet

'Mooch' Blair. You went on for about two pages about the

time you met him. I'm asking a simple question: When did

you first meet this IRA mole, Owen Corrigan, as you have

described him?

A. I seen him driving around Dundalk in a Garda car,

plain-clothes.

Q. OK. When did you become aware of him, in what year? 124

A. The story is again after the Narrow Water stuff when I

started hanging about with 'Mooch' I became aware of him

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then.

Q. You say you encountered him in Dundalk Garda Station, isn't 125

that correct?

A. Yes, that's correct.

Q. What year did you encounter him in Dundalk Garda Station? 126

A. The year, I can't remember the year, but I had been

arrested by the Special Branch on the Long Avenue Road with

'Mooch' Blair, 'Mooch' was in the car with me, and you

could narrow the date down because a south Armagh man that

was convicted of blowing up Lord Mountbatten, he was having

some sort of Court of Appeal here in Dublin, and I think

when that was happening, the guards discovered an escape

attempt that he was going to make, I remember it was that

time.

Q. OK. 127

A. Because that was on the news when I was arrested.

Q. OK. 128

A. Or released.

Q. Now, I understand, and the Garda Siochana will have this 129

evidence, you will appreciate that, that you were arrested

on the 30th of June, 1989?

A. Right.

Q. Does that ring a bell with you? 130

A. Well, if they say that is the date, I remember the arrest,

yes.

Q. And of course, that is a date some three months after the 131

date upon which Chief Superintendent Breen and

Superintendent Buchanan were murdered, isn't that correct?

A. Well, if that is the date that it was, yes.

Q. And is that the only -- is that the only time that you 132

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encountered Owen Corrigan?

A. In the Garda station?

Q. Yes.133

A. Yes.

Q. The only time you encountered him? 134

A. In the Garda station.

Q. OK. And did he arrest you? 135

A. No, he didn't arrest me.

Q. Did he interrogate you? 136

A. He came into the interrogation room because I remember him

coming into it.

Q. Did he interrogate you? 137

A. He was in the interrogation room when I was getting

interrogated, well spoken to, it wasn't even an

interrogation.

Q. Did he interrogate you? 138

A. He came into the room and the detectives were in the

interrogation room.

Q. Mr. Keeley, it's a very simple question: Was the retired 139

Detective Sergeant one of the people who interrogated you

when you were arrested and held in Dundalk Garda Station on

the 30th of June, 1989?

A. He came into the room when I was interrogated, being

interrogated by --

CHAIRMAN: Did he interrogate you himself?

A. He was in the room when other detectives were talking to

me, but I would count those people in the room --

CHAIRMAN: Did he not take part in the interrogation?

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A. I can't remember, but he was in the room.

Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your evidence is you can't remember 140

whether he interrogated you or not?

A. Well, he was in the room, he came into the room.

Q. OK. But you can't remember whether he interrogated you or 141

not?

A. I can't remember the names of the other people, either.

Q. I am not asking you that question. You can't remember 142

whether Owen Corrigan interrogated you or not, is that

correct?

A. No, that's correct.

Q. OK. Why, then, did you tell Henry McDonald of The Observer 143

in November 2004, that Owen Corrigan had interrogated you?

A. Again, I am not responsible for editorial control. I would

have said that he came into the room, he was in the garda

station when I was interrogated. I didn't write the story.

Q. I know you didn't. I will just read out what Henry 144

McDonald quotes you as stating. On the 14th of November,

2004, Mr. McDonald wrote a story that was published in The

Observer called "Garda knew of IRA Mole in Force," and it

says the following:

"Fulton has been interviewed by Cory and has provided the

name of the IRA mole working inside the Garda. The

Observer is aware of the name but cannot print it for legal

reasons. In the programme" - that is a television

programme that was due to be broadcast called Cross-Border

Murder - "Fulton says 'On one occasion, I was along with

Patrick Joseph Blair, my commanding officer in the IRA, and

we had to go out and meet a garda who usually met another

man from south Armagh who was in the Internal Security

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team. But this person wasn't there that day, so at some

stage I worked with the Internal Security Unit along with

Patrick Joseph Blair. We went out to a pub along the

border and the person we met was X," presumably that's

Mr. Corrigan?

A. Yes.

Q. "The reason I knew him was I had been arrested. I was 145

interrogated by him in Dundalk Garda Station at one stage.

We all knew about Corrigan, it was basically the worst-kept

secret within a certain group of IRA men, but to me there

was nothing extraordinary about that."

Now, is what you said to The Observer correct or is what

you said to the Chairman correct?

A. Well, I have just said there now he came into the room.

Did he speak to me and actually ask questions? I can't

remember, but he was part of the team of detectives.

CHAIRMAN: All right, I understood that correctly. But

what about this Observer journalist. Did you tell him that

Corrigan had investigated you?

A. Some of them say like I was interrogated. There was three

policemen in the room, you count all three of them as

interrogating you.

CHAIRMAN: I see.

Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: You told me that Owen Corrigan did not 146

interrogate you?

A. You asked me did he actually interrogate me. He was there

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in the room with the other detectives.

Q. I know -- 147

A. But to me you are twisting my words. I know you maybe look

at things differently than me.

Q. Do you not see the inconsistency between what you told The 148

Observer and what you are telling the Chairman?

A. Tell me the inconsistency.

Q. You told The Observer that, "I was interrogated by Owen 149

Corrigan in Dundalk Garda Station at one stage"?

A. Yes.

Q. Are you now saying that is correct? 150

A. No. What is the difference? I am saying to the Chairman

that he was in the room when I was being interrogated. To

me that is the exact same thing.

Q. I asked you if you could recall whether or not he 151

interrogated you and you said you couldn't?

A. What do you call by interrogating? You physically asking

questions?

Q. Yes.152

A. If I am sitting here and there is three detectives and one

is doing all the asking, in my eye the three of them is

still interrogating me.

Q. I wouldn't seek to raise myself up to the level of a garda 153

investigator, but at present I think it's fair to say that

I am interrogating you, isn't that correct?

A. Absolutely, yes.

Q. Now, the other individuals in the room, are they 154

interrogating you as well?

A. Well, I mean part of your team is this gentleman here.

Well, I can't see any more.

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Q. Do you think these other people are interrogating you at 155

the same time?

A. I can't see them. Are they part of your team?

Q. I have to suggest to you that either what you told The 156

Observer is incorrect or what you told the Chairman is

incorrect?

A. No, sir, what I have told you is not incorrect.

Q. OK. So Owen Corrigan came into the room, which would have 157

been on the 30th of June, 1989, and you saw him?

A. Yes.

Q. Describe him? 158

A. When I seen him then he was actually tall, he was very

bulky then so he was.

Q. How tall was he? 159

A. A lot taller than me. I am only five-five.

Q. OK. How tall would you say he was? 160

A. How tall? I am not great at heights, sir. How long is a

piece of string? To me, he is asking me questions that I

am not going to remember, the exact height of the man, what

colour is his shoes, that's the next one.

Q. Was he tall or short?161

A. He was taller than me but shorter than some of the guards.

Is that any help to you?

Q. No, it's not. 162

A. You see, the questions he is asking me --

Q. Was he fat or thin? 163

A. He wasn't thin, he was very bulky.

Q. Was very, very fat, is that what you are saying?164

A. I am not saying he was fat, but he would have been

overweight.

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Q. Was he bald or did he have hair? 165

A. He had hair.

Q. Did you notice anything distinctive about his speech?166

A. Not really, no.

Q. Did he speak to you? 167

A. I can't remember if he interrogated me in this thing, but,

you see, again, what colour is his shoes, that's the next

one, is it?

Q. No, it's not. I am asking you about his speech?168

A. He has a southern accent.

Q. Of course you heard him in the car at Fintan Callan's Céilí 169

House, isn't that so?

A. Yes, but to me a lot of people from the Irish Republic,

Dundalk area, speak with the same brogue. My brogue is

different from most northerners as well.

Q. Did you notice from his speech whether he was missing 170

teeth?

A. No, I wouldn't have been looking to see if he was missing

teeth.

Q. Did you notice what type of an accent he had? 171

A. No.

Q. So you met Owen Corrigan or you were in presence with 172

him --

A. Yes.

Q. -- on the 12th of June, 1989, when you came into the room? 173

Aside from that, had you met him prior to the incident or

the alleged incident in your car outside Fintan Callan's

Céilí House?

A. Again, loads of times he would have been driving around

Dundalk spotting with the Garda Special Branch. I said

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that even yesterday. They'd pass us, we would wave at

them. We knew most of the guards to see, one or two by

name, that was it.

Q. Had you met him before you encountered him in the car? 174

A. When you say "met", what do you mean? Physical, personal

meetings with him?

Q. Had you met him, yes? 175

A. No, I mean I wouldn't be associating with guards.

Q. But sure, this wasn't an ordinary guard; this was an IRA 176

mole working for the guards?

A. Yeah. I would have no reason even to approach him, speak

to him or anything else.

Q. But you are a member of the IRA? 177

A. It doesn't matter if you are a member of the IRA. If you

are a member of the Garda Special Branch and you know an

informant, just because you seen one of his handlers does

that give you the right to go and speak to him? Absolutely

not. It would be ludicrous and madness to do it.

Q. How many times had you met Owen Corrigan, can you clarify 178

for the Chairman, prior to the meeting in the car?

A. Just the one -- I mean you are saying about meetings. I

would not be meeting the man anywhere. If anything, they'd

would be passing in a car and you would you look at them,

you know. We would wave at the Branch and the Branch would

wave back, to let us know they were watching us. You don't

meet people and you don't speak to people, even if you met

them on a official capacity with someone else, you just

wouldn't do it.

Q. Your story about meeting in the car in the car park at 179

Fintan Callan's Céilí House is that you were aware of Owen

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Corrigan because you had met him once previously when he

had either interrogated you or come into the room, isn't

that so?

A. Yeah, yeah, and I would have seen him as well in the Garda

car, so I knew who he was.

Q. And your evidence yesterday was you met him once prior to 180

being in the car park?

A. My evidence yesterday?

Q. Yeah, was that you had met Corrigan once; you had met him 181

before, you said, before the meeting in the car park in

Fintan Callan's Céilí House?

A. I said that yesterday, did I?

Q. Well, that's what I think you said to Mrs. Laverty. You 182

said you knew it was Corrigan, you had met him before?

A. No, he hadn't arrested me, he came into the interview room.

You seem to be picking little things, dates and everything

else. Go on.

Q. Why then did you sign a statement to the Tribunal on the 183

1st of March, this year, in which you said the following:

"I met Corrigan once when I had to drive Patrick Joseph

Blair out to Fintan Callan's Céilí House outside Dundalk"?

A. They already had that in the statement previous to that.

Q. Why did you tell the Tribunal that you had only met him 184

once and that time was in the Fintan Callan Céilí House?

A. Part of the statement showed I had met him long before that

as well. I had already spoken to the Tribunal.

Q. Yeah, it wasn't in it?185

A. Was it not in it? Well, I haven't seen it.

Q. Well, I suggest to you -- 186

A. You are able to say there now, you are able to read it off

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somewhere that I had met him in the police station as well.

Q. Well, you never said that in your statement to the 187

Tribunal. And I think there were three drafts of your

statement before you signed it, Mr. Keeley, isn't that so?

A. I don't know how many drafts there is.

Q. Why don't you say anything about this Garda mole in your 188

book?

A. As I say, I didn't write the book and, again, I had no

editorial control of the book. And again, I don't want to

go into the book because it's part of the main

investigation by the PSNI and the HET.

Q. The people who wrote your book wrote it based on 189

information you gave them, isn't that right?

A. You speak to them.

Q. Well, you tell me? 190

A. I am just saying, I am not going to discuss the book, sir,

because of the investigations that is ongoing at the

minute, because the book is playing a major part in it.

Q. Mr. Keeley, I am not asking you about the content of the 191

book at this stage, I am asking you about how the book was

written. Presumably --

A. Two ghost writers writ the book.

Q. But they must have got information from you in order to 192

write it?

A. They got information from other people as well, so you

could speak to them.

Q. So they got information from you, you accept that?193

A. You can speak to them, I'm not -- sir, for my own

protection in these investigations, I can't -- I don't want

to go into that and be brought down a certain road because

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my defence in future cases could be compromised by it.

Q. I am not going to ask the witness at this stage about his 194

previous involvement in terrorist offences. I am simply

asking you about the manner in which your book was

prepared?

A. You are on about the book again, the book is playing a big

part in police investigations. Again, sir, I would like

not to answer that.

Q. Why didn't you mention in your book that there was a garda 195

mole in Dundalk?

A. Everything that I have done over the years is not mentioned

in that book, sir. There is a lot of things not mentioned

in that book --

Q. The fact -- 196

A. -- that me and my handlers were involved in. You can only

get so much into a book as well. You can't get a life

story in it.

Q. Mr. Keeley, I have to suggest to you that your information 197

that there was an IRA mole working in Dundalk Garda Station

is astonishing information and it should have been in your

book. Can you give an explanation to the Chairman as to

why it isn't in your book?

A. Again, there is a lot of things I did in my career working

in military intelligence that is not in that book.

Q. So you don't have an explanation as to why it's not there?198

A. That is what I'm saying. I have no editorial control.

There is a lot of things not in the book.

Q. Did you tell the ghost writers about the fact that there 199

was an IRA mole in the Dundalk Garda Station?

A. You would maybe need to talk to the ghost writers yourself.

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I don't want to discuss the book. I am just saying to you,

with the greatest of respect, I don't want to discuss the

book because it is a major part of the PSNI --

CHAIRMAN: Yes. What I think Mr. O'Callaghan is getting at

is, that here was a very valuable piece of work you had

done for your -- the people to whom you were providing

information. Wasn't this a star part of your life and why

didn't you refer to it?

A. I am sure the ghost writers do know about it, but I have no

editorial control of what went into that book. You are all

saying this is astonishing news. It's not really

astonishing news. I mean, I have come across it with RUC

men helping to IRA to set up their colleagues, you know. A

guard -- I know to yous maybe it is massively important and

big, but in the field of things that we were doing, you

know, there was actually more important -- it's wrong to

say important things; there was more horrible things going

on. You know, it's very hard for yous to understand.

MR. RAFFERTY: Mr. Chairman, just to assist My Friend and

assist the -- I think the Cory, Judge Cory, the statement

was taken in 2003. I don't think the book was published

until 2006. If that assists.

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: I am fully aware of that.

Q. I am still asking you, though, you don't really have an 200

explanation as to what I regard as an astonishing claim was

not in your book, do you?

A. Again, I don't have editorial control of what's going into

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it. That book was actually picked for an English market,

not for an Irish market.

Q. And you don't think an English market would be interested 201

in the fact that there was a Garda Sergeant colluding with

the IRA?

A. There was a lot more other things went on as well that

didn't appear in the book, that went on with MI5 and

Special Branch and military intelligence. You know, you

are picking the bits that are relevant to here.

Q. I will move on. I now want to go on and talk about the 202

three specific examples of what you say is Owen Corrigan

colluding with the IRA?

A. Yes.

Q. Omeath, Fintan Callan's Céilí House and, finally, the 203

murders of Chief Superintendent Breen and Buchanan. I want

to start with Omeath. You are aware from what Mrs. Laverty

said to you yesterday that the Omeath bomb was seized on

the 28th of August, 1989, isn't that correct?

A. If you say that is the date.

Q. There is no dispute of that. In what way did Owen Corrigan 204

help the IRA?

A. When the bomb was actually caught in the place, there was a

lot of tools there. The bomb wasn't totally finished. And

basically, the guards raided it, caught all the stuff. And

'Mooch' and everybody had to go on the run. They were

already living in Dundalk but had to run because their

prints were everywhere. So I moved 'Mooch' and that about,

got him off-side. And I think it was two days later we got

a message back from Patrick that "our friend" had sorted

things out. So I took it that the fingerprints and all had

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disappeared. so I took it that "our friend" was the same

Owen Corrigan.

Q. OK. And I have to try and tie you down to detail here. 205

What did Patsy O'Callaghan say to you after --

A. No, he didn't say to me. The message came through from

Mickey --

Q. Just describe to me again? 206

A. Man A on the cipher.

Q. You were making a bomb in Omeath, isn't that correct? 207

A. They were making a bomb in Omeath, yes.

Q. And you were there? 208

A. I was party to it.

Q. You were party to it. And it was raided by An Garda 209

Siochana?

A. By the Garda, yes.

Q. And were you apprehended by An Garda Siochana? 210

A. No, sir, I wasn't. I wasn't even arrested.

Q. And were you at the scene at the time of the raid? 211

A. No, neither was 'Mooch' or anybody else.

Q. OK. So you are stating that the bomb factory was raided by 212

An Garda Siochana at a time when no one was there?

A. Well, 'Mooch' nor the bomb-makers were there, no.

Q. OK. And then, what happens after that? 'Mooch' says to 213

you that...

A. They had to get off-side because -- I mean they knew their

fingerprints were on things inside the garage where the

bomb was.

Q. And do you not work with gloves when you are making bombs 214

or anything?

A. People do work with gloves. A lot of people grinding

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sometimes don't use gloves because, number one, at that

stage it's not actually a bomb, you are grinding your

fertiliser, and before you mix it up, people will touch

things. I mean, there is cases where 'Mooch', before a

bomb went from Omeath up to Newry, he had actually put his

fingerprint on the bomb. Sound madness, but he has done

it.

Q. OK. So the premises in Omeath was raided? 215

A. Yes.

Q. You left the area, although you weren't there at the time 216

--

A. I wasn't there at the time, no.

Q. Where did you go after it was raided? 217

A. I was living in Newry at the time.

Q. What were you told to do? 218

A. When I went back down to Dundalk to pick up 'Mooch', to

move him away, the stuff had been caught and get him

off-side. And he went to a friend's house somewhere else.

Q. Did you go in Northern Ireland or in the Republic of 219

Ireland?

A. No, he was still in the Republic of Ireland.

Q. And how long after that do you hear from Patsy O'Callaghan? 220

A. I think it was about two days or so, it was very quickly

after it.

Q. And who did Patsy O'Callaghan speak to? 221

A. We got the information from Man A on the cipher.

Q. Mickey Collins, he has been named already?222

A. Mickey Collins. Oh, that's all right, Mickey Collins,

yeah.

Q. So you were with 'Mooch' Blair in a safe house in the 223

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Republic of Ireland?

A. I visited him, I didn't stay with him, no, I drove him

because he wasn't driving at the time.

Q. And what information did you get at that stage? 224

A. Just that it was okay to come back, everything is all

clear, "our friend" --

Q. Who gave you that information? 225

A. It would have been Mickey Collins.

Q. And did he give it to you or to 'Mooch' Blair? 226

A. I would have heard it from him, but I also heard it from

'Mooch' as well. So he would have got a call to the place

where he was staying.

Q. And what did he say to you? 227

A. Just that "our friend" -- it's safe to go back, all the

stuff is gone, "our friend" had helped. Don't pin me down

to exact words. But it worked out that basically "our

friend" had looked after things, the stuff is gone, the

evidence.

Q. So Mickey Collins tipped you off -- 228

A. Yes.

Q. -- that things were okay? 229

A. Yes.

Q. This is what you said in your statement at page 10: "The 230

guards got wind of it and went to the bomb-making factory

in Omeath. The guards went in and got all the stuff:

There was a grinder, there was tools, there were

fingerprints of 'Mooch' Blair, my fingerprints were there.

At that time everybody from the South had to go on the run,

I think it was about three days later we got word from

Patsy O'Callaghan that everything was clear, our friend

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looked after it, it's cleared, there is nothing. I take

'our friend' to be Owen Corrigan. And this was not the

first time I had heard of him."

Now, you told the Chairman a few moments ago that it was

Mickey Collins who tipped you off?

A. Yes.

Q. In your statement you told the Chairman it was Patsy 231

O'Callaghan. Which is correct?

A. Everything that would have come from Owen Corrigan would

have come through Patsy O'Callaghan. That was the main

contact. Mickey Collins was about the only one in Dundalk

had a telephone and Mickey would have been the main contact

with Patsy as well. I mean, Owen Corrigan would never have

contacted 'Mooch', me or anybody else. Not even Mickey

Collins.

Q. Why wouldn't Owen Corrigan have contacted 'Mooch' or 232

yourself? Sure he was an IRA mole, according to you.

A. Usually when you work with different teams you work with

one specific person, and I have said in the statement that

Owen Corrigan's contact within the IRA was Patsy

O'Callaghan.

Q. Why wouldn't Owen Corrigan have contacted 'Mooch' or 233

yourself?

A. He would never have looked me anyhow. Why would he contact

me?

Q. Because you are in the IRA? 234

A. No. Listen, that's nonsense. There is about 60 or 80 IRA

men roaming around Dundalk. He is not going to go to any

of those people. It's like, I was working for British

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intelligence, does that mean I would go to an ordinary RUC

man on the street and tell him? Of course not.

Q. It was Mickey Collins or Patsy O'Callaghan who told you 235

that everything was sorted out?

A. It would have come from Patsy O'Callaghan at the very

start. It could have come from no one else but him. I

know, you're nitpicking on my statement, yeah, yeah.

Q. You said Mickey Collins a few moments ago to the Chairman? 236

A. Mickey Collins would have told me as well, yeah.

Q. So both of them told you, Mickey Collins and Patsy 237

O'Callaghan?

A. Patsy O'Callaghan would not have told me. Patsy

O'Callaghan would have no dealings with me, sir. I was a

driver that drove Mickey out and just the Internal Security

stuff, that's it. I went out to Patsy O'Callaghan with

Collins. I would not even have talked to Patsy O'Callaghan

on the street.

Q. You got your information from Mickey Collins that there was 238

no longer a problem?

A. But it all would have came from Patsy O'Callaghan, yes.

Q. What did -- because Mickey Collins is the only one that 239

spoke to you, isn't that correct? What did he say to you?

A. Well, basically "our friend" -- everything is clear, I

could go down and collect 'Mooch'. Don't ask me --

Q. I'm not asking you word-for-word. From your recollection, 240

what did he say to you?

A. Basically that it was all clear, the fingerprints are gone

and I could go down and pick 'Mooch' up, which I did.

Q. And where did he say to you that "our friend has sorted it 241

out"?

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A. He would have said that in Dundalk.

Q. Tell the Chairman what he said to you, how he said it? 242

A. Again, sir, word-for-word I can't remember.

CHAIRMAN: Tell me what he said.

A. Basically that "our friend" had looked after things,

fingerprints are gone, I can take things back.

Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: And you interpreted "our friend" to be 243

Owen Corrigan?

A. Absolutely, yes. Yes, sir.

Q. OK. Did you ever hear of a man called Joseph Patrick 244

Parker?

A. No.

Q. Think about it? 245

A. Oh, yes, that is the guy that owned the house in Omeath.

Hold on, just because the IRA used a house, it doesn't mean

that everybody would know the person that owns the house.

We had safe houses that we used for interrogation, I know

who owned one of those houses, I'd know the other house,

but I don't know who the owner is, you know. Just because

someone has actually used the premises to make a bomb

doesn't mean that everybody knows them. They don't.

Q. Was anyone convicted of the Omeath bomb? 246

A. I believe that the man that owns the property, the actual

owner, was convicted of that.

Q. He was convicted of possession of the bomb in December 247

1989, isn't that correct?

A. I don't know the exact date when he was convicted.

Q. And going back to my original question: Had you heard of 248

Joseph Patrick Parker at the time in Omeath?

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A. Not at that time, no, sir.

Q. When did you first become aware of him? 249

A. I became aware of him when he was convicted and then I had

to look up when, roughly, for this bomb, exactly where it

was, the Tribunal wanted to know, they wanted to pinpoint

the date, which bomb it was on about. At that stage it was

the biggest bomb that the guards found at that time.

Q. He was convicted of possession of explosives, isn't that 250

correct?

A. If you say that is what --

Q. Do you believe he was a member of the IRA? 251

A. No, I don't. A lot of people that helped the IRA, sir, are

not members of the IRA. A lot of people will give

technical support, they'll give premises, they will let you

use their house, their car, but they are not members of the

IRA.

Q. When Mickey Collins said to you that "our friend" had 252

sorted it out, did he go on and say that the fingerprints

have been removed?

A. Well, that is what we took it as because we all knew our

fingerprints were on things inside the garage.

Q. I don't want you to tell the Chairman what you took it as. 253

Did he specifically state to you "our friend has got rid of

the fingerprints"?

A. No, but we knew the fingerprints was on the things. That

is why everybody was in trouble.

Q. So am I to take it that all he said to you was "our friend 254

has sorted it out"?

A. Yeah. And I took it that the fingerprints had gone. When

everybody was safe to come home, that is what it had to

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mean.

Q. And in order to sort out that issue with the fingerprints, 255

Mr. Corrigan would have had to have been involved in the

Omeath inquiry, wouldn't he?

A. I don't know why he has to be involved in it or have access

to it, I don't know.

Q. Well, what do you think? 256

A. No, It doesn't matter what I think. You are now nitpicking

on things. You are on to me about things, not what you

think, what did he tell you? Now you are asking me what

did I think.

Q. Mr. Keeley, you were trained by the British military? 257

A. Yes.

Q. You are a double agent, a successful one, according to 258

yourself. I am just asking you to comment upon what I am

stating to you. Would you agree with me that, in order for

Owen Corrigan to compromise this investigation, he'd have

to have been involved in the investigation?

A. He would have access to something; maybe not even involved

but access to something. Yeah, you would need access to

something or someone, yes.

Q. And you believe that Owen Corrigan compromised this inquiry 259

don't you?

A. Which inquiry.

Q. The Omeath investigation? 260

A. That is what I have been led to believe, yes.

Q. But you believe it?261

A. Well, that is what I believe because that is what I said,

yes.

Q. And you have stated it to this Tribunal as a fact, that he 262

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interfered with that inquiry to the benefit of IRA men,

isn't that so?

A. Well, that is what I believe, yeah.

Q. But you have stated it in your statement as a fact? 263

A. Yes, well that is what I believe, sir, yes.

Q. I want to suggest to you, Mr. Keeley, that this is but 264

another example of you lying to this Tribunal?

A. No, sir, I am not lying to this Tribunal.

Q. And let me tell you why it is an example of you lying to 265

this Tribunal: Owen Corrigan was not part of the Garda

team that raided the scene or investigated the scene at

Omeath. That operation was run by Superintendent Tom

Connolly. Mr. Corrigan did not work in any respect with

Mr. Connolly on that operation. That is a matter that

would be confirmed by An Garda Siochana. How do you

explain that?

A. Well, you are just after explaining it, aren't you?

Q. How do you explain the fact that you have told this 266

Chairman and this Tribunal that Owen Corrigan interfered

with the Garda inquiry into Omeath and he wasn't even

working on it?

A. Well, I have told the Inquiry "our friend" and I took that

to be Owen Corrigan, sir.

Q. Are you suggesting that it may not have been Owen Corrigan? 267

A. No, but I am telling you, I believe that that was Owen

Corrigan because when it was stated it was "our friend",

and the only person that I knew of as "our friend" was Owen

Corrigan, no other Garda.

Q. Would you not agree with me from your experience, 268

Mr. Keeley, that it's simply not possible for Mr. Corrigan

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to have compromised that investigation since he didn't work

on that matter with Superintendent Tom Connolly?

A. Well, basically, if he didn't work on it, had he any access

to anybody on it or any access to the materials?

Q. No, he didn't, would be the answer. 269

A. I mean, I compromised IRA jobs that I wasn't even on, that

is the best way to compromise it, when you are not actually

on it.

Q. Well, do you have any other explanation for this obstacle 270

in your story, other than what you have just said?

A. No, absolutely not, no.

Q. Of course, there is one other explanation, which is that 271

you are telling lies about Owen Corrigan on the Omeath

inquiry?

A. No, sir, I am not telling lies on the Omeath inquiry.

Q. You said in your statement that the Gardai got wind of the 272

Omeath bomb factory?

A. Yes.

Q. If Owen Corrigan was an IRA mole, why didn't he tip you off 273

about the fact that the Gardaí were going to raid this

factory?

A. I don't know. If other people is on it -- I mean, put it

like this; IRA moles get into things, I mean IRA volunteers

do things as well. I am sure agents have done things and

didn't tip their handlers as well.

Q. You must have been furious with Mr. Corrigan after the 274

Omeath factory was raided?

A. No, why would I be furious with him?

Q. Because he was an IRA mole who was supposed to tip you off 275

and didn't?

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A. Why would I be cheesed off with that?

Q. Well, was Patsy O'Callaghan cheesed off, to use your words?276

A. No. Put it like this: If the guards are going to raid

somewhere and you have one mole there, just because your

mole can't get to you, there is other people in their unit

is going to raid the place anyhow. Your mole may not have

had the opportunity to tell you or he just may not have

told you.

Q. Did no one in the IRA say to you afterwards, why didn't our 277

mole tip us off about this?

A. No, no one said anything like that.

Q. I have to suggest to you that if Owen Corrigan was an IRA 278

mole, he would have tipped Patsy O'Callaghan off, as you

suggest, about the Gardaí about to raid the Omeath factory,

would you agree with that?

A. Maybe if he knew about it well in advance, he may have.

Q. I want to ask you about the meeting or alleged meeting at 279

Fintan Callan's --

A. Céilí House.

Q. -- Céilí House. This is very important evidence, 280

Mr. Keeley. Do you know why it's very important?

A. No, you tell me.

Q. No, I am asking you, do you know? 281

A. Well, you tell me why it's important.

Q. No, I am asking you, do you know? 282

A. You are only after saying do you know why.

Q. The answer is no? 283

A. Tell me why you say it's important.

Q. I will, but I am asking you first: Do you know this is 284

very important evidence?

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A. Of course all evidence is important.

Q. But this particular evidence is important. I am going to 285

tell you why, but I am wondering do you know?

A. Well, tell me then.

Q. I'm asking you --286

A. What I think maybe is important is maybe different --

Q. I take it you don't realise that this is important 287

evidence. Because it is the only direct evidence that you

purport to have linking Owen Corrigan to providing

information to the IRA, that's why it's important. Would

you agree with me on that?

A. If you say so.

Q. I am asking you? 288

A. No, you are saying -- you think it's some very important

things. To me not -- I may not see the importance in it

that you see.

Q. Well, the answer to that then, Mr. Keeley, is: No, I don't 289

agree with you, it's not that important?

A. You don't think it's important?

Q. No, I asked you would you agree with me that it's very 290

important evidence?

A. Everything is important, yes.

Q. So you would agree with me that it is important, is that 291

fair to say?

A. Yes.

Q. As I have said to you, it's important because it is the 292

only alleged evidence purporting to link Owen Corrigan to

passing information to the IRA. Now, I want to tie you

down about the time of this meeting in the car park, the

time as in date. I am not looking for a specific date but

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I want you to identify around what month it was?

A. Sorry, I can't remember what date, what month, so I can't.

Q. Can you remember -- it certainly was 1991, let's start 293

easy, isn't that correct?

A. It would be about a month or so before the first abduction

of Tom Oliver.

Q. Tom Oliver was murdered on the 18th July, 1991, isn't that 294

correct?

A. I can't remember the date. When he was murdered, I wasn't

in the country.

Q. He was murdered on the 18th of July, 1991. From that date, 295

can you try and identify when the meeting in the car park

was?

A. Weeks or a month prior to it.

Q. So we are talking, probably, June 1991? 296

A. A couple of months prior to it, it would have been the

first time.

Q. May? 297

A. Honestly, I can't remember the dates or months. That is

not my thing.

Q. Your evidence to the Chairman is that it was a couple of 298

months --

A. Yeah.

Q. -- before the murder of Tom Oliver? 299

A. Yes.

Q. And Tom Oliver was murdered on the 18th of July, 1991, so 300

can we take it it was April, May or June?

A. It could have been around that, yeah.

Q. That is your evidence, isn't it? 301

A. Yeah.

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Q. It is, OK. What type of a premises was Fintan Callan's 302

Céilí House back in 1991?

A. What type of premises was it?

Q. Yes.303

A. It was on the left-hand side of the road. It was a gravel

car park. I didn't even go into the premises; I just drove

in, stayed in the car park, and 'Mooch' went in.

Q. Had you ever been there before? 304

A. No.

Q. Do you know what type of people frequented it? 305

A. No.

Q. Had you ever heard of it before going -- 306

A. I heard people saying about Fintan Callan's Céilí House,

Irish music, but I am not really a drinker and I don't go

to music sessions.

Q. The evidence is that this was a place where subversive 307

republicans hanged out, would you agree with that?

A. No -- but I don't know. I mean, I only drove out to it and

took 'Mooch' out to the car park.

Q. You had been a member of the IRA based in Dundalk for how 308

many years, in 1991?

A. A few years, yeah.

Q. A few years? 309

A. Yeah, but remember, I am not a drinker, I don't go out

socialising, so why would I be interested in Fintan

Callan's Céilí House.

Q. Is it your evidence to the Chairman that you hadn't heard 310

of Fintan Callan's Céilí House before --

A. I had heard of it, of course I've heard of it. It's like

people going to the Ballymascanlon Hotel, you know. I

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don't go to the 'Ballymac'.

Q. Well, what type of a premises was it? Would you agree that 311

it was a place where subversive republicans hanged out?

A. Well, how can I agree if I've never been to it? Just

because it's Fintan Callan's Céilí House, real Gaelic and

Irish-sounding, doesn't mean that it's a republican -- I

mean, it's not a republican bar. Dundalk, if you had have

said the DB, any of those bars, I knew those were

republican bars because they were used by IRA people in

Dundalk.

Q. Mr. Keeley, you were a British agent, trained by the 312

British Army. Your job was to find out information about

where republicans were frequenting, isn't that so?

A. Well, I would not be with republicans from the area around

Fintan Callan's Céilí House.

Q. So your evidence to the Chairman is, when you were asked to 313

drive out there, you didn't know what type of a premises it

was?

A. Just, it was a pub.

Q. Yes. Are you aware from more recent times what type of a 314

premises it was at the time?

A. Not really. Just recently. Why would I be looking at it?

You know, it's no interest to me.

Q. OK. Did 'Mooch' Blair tell you why he wanted you to drive 315

him out to that pub?

A. Just, he had to meet someone, that was it.

Q. That is all he said to you? 316

A. The thing is, I don't ask -- I have stated on the record,

many times, I never asked questions. If 'Mooch' needed a

driver, I would drive him. If he wanted to go to Dublin,

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Cork or Limerick, I drove him there, as well.

Q. So the Chairman can take it that 'Mooch' Blair approached 317

you one day in May/June 1991, and said, "I need a lift to

Fintan Callan's Céilí House"?

A. No, he wouldn't have said that "I need to go to Fintan

Callan's Céilí House"; he would have got into the car and

told me where to go.

Q. So you didn't know where you were going? 318

A. Not until we got there.

Q. OK. And this was your first time driving there? 319

A. To Fintan Callan's, yes. I have been out that road many

times because Patsy O'Callaghan lived, before it, on a

different road.

Q. When you arrived in the car park, what happened? 320

A. I pulled in, 'Mooch' got out and went into the bar.

Q. How long was he in the bar for? 321

A. Only a few minutes. Came back out again and then he was

followed by Owen Corrigan.

Q. What did Owen Corrigan do? 322

A. He got into the back of the car.

Q. What happened then? 323

A. He was talking to 'Mooch'. I sat looking out the window

and that is when he said about Tom Oliver being caught with

an unlicensed shotgun and was passing information.

Q. Did 'Mooch' introduce you to Owen Corrigan? 324

A. No, he didn't. I was, basically, a shadow sitting there.

I never spoke, never did anything.

Q. You weren't introduced to Corrigan? 325

A. Not introduced, no.

Q. OK. You wrote to Judge Cory on the 9th of September, 2003, 326

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and you stated the following: "On one occasion in the late

1980s" -- and you are wrong about that -- "I was with my

senior IRA commander and another individual in my car. I

knew the other individual to be Garda B" -- that is

Corrigan -- "I was introduced to Garda B. I knew that

Garda B, who was stationed at Dundalk, was passing

information to the Provisional IRA."

Now, which is correct, Mr. Keeley?

A. Well, 'Mooch' didn't say "this is Owen Corrigan". He just

got into the car and started talking to 'Mooch'.

CHAIRMAN: He didn't introduce you?

A. He wouldn't have introduced me, no.

Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: So what you said to Judge Cory is 327

incorrect in that respect?

A. Well, I wasn't introduced as an introduction, no.

Q. When you said to Judge Cory, "I was introduced to Owen 328

Corrigan," you weren't?

A. No, he got into the car.

Q. OK. What did 'Mooch' Blair say when Owen Corrigan was in 329

the car?

A. He listened to what Owen Corrigan had to say about Tom

Oliver, and the meeting only was minutes, and then he got

out, we drove off again, and 'Mooch', on the way back in

the road, says he would blow the f-ing back out of the guy

with an AK.

Q. What did Owen Corrigan say to you about Tom Oliver? 330

A. He didn't say anything to me about Tom Oliver. He was

talking to 'Mooch'.

Q. What did Owen Corrigan say to 'Mooch' Blair about Tom 331

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Oliver?

A. He had passed comment that Owen Corrigan had been caught

with an unlicensed shotgun.

Q. That, sorry?332

A. Tom Oliver.

Q. Tom Oliver had been?333

A. Yeah.

Q. Continue. 334

A. Had been caught with an unlicensed shotgun and was passing

information to the Garda.

Q. You had never been in a situation before with Owen Corrigan 335

where he had provided sensitive information to the IRA,

isn't that so?

A. That is so, yes.

Q. Would you agree with me that it was a reckless thing of 336

Owen Corrigan to have done, to get into a car with yourself

and 'Mooch' Blair and give information, sensitive

information, about Garda operations, would you agree with

that?

A. It would be senseless giving it to anybody, wouldn't it?

But he did do it. I mean, you saying people giving

information. I have sat at meetings where people, they are

not Garda or policemen, give information to the IRA as

well.

Q. You said earlier in your evidence today that Owen 337

Corrigan's point of contact in the IRA was Patsy

O'Callaghan?

A. Yes.

Q. Why didn't you give this information to Patsy O'Callaghan? 338

A. Because I think I have said in the statement, too, that

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Patsy O'Callaghan wasn't available so 'Mooch' went out in

his place.

Q. I have to suggest to you that that is completely 339

implausible, Mr. Keeley.

A. Do you think so? How would it be implausible?

Q. Well, Owen Corrigan, as a guard in An Garda Siochana, you 340

are suggesting that he would get into a car with a

well-known member of the IRA, 'Mooch' Blair, and yourself,

and, having never spoken to you before, he would give

information, confidential sensitive information, about Tom

Oliver, I have to suggest to you that is completely

implausible?

A. Not really, I don't see how it's implausible. If his

contact told him to meet with 'Mooch', he would have felt

quite comfortable with it.

Q. I have to suggest to you it would have been completely 341

reckless behaviour on his part?

A. I think it would be totally reckless for a garda to help

the IRA in any shape or form, wouldn't it?

Q. We have to be fair to the late Tom Oliver in this Tribunal. 342

A. Yes.

Q. There is no evidence that Tom Oliver was an informant, OK? 343

A. Right.

Q. Now, as a result of what Owen Corrigan said to you, there 344

was no doubt but Tom Oliver was going to be murdered, isn't

that correct?

A. If he admitted it, absolutely.

Q. Owen Corrigan at this stage, according to you, was a guard 345

who had provided the IRA with valuable intelligence about

Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan so

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they could be murdered, isn't that so?

A. I have always said that the call came, it was about "our

friend". I didn't say whether he did or not, but that is

what I took it, that it was Owen Corrigan, yes.

Q. And you and the IRA, according to your evidence, believed 346

that Owen Corrigan had provided the valuable information

that led to the murder of the two RUC officers, isn't that

correct?

A. When I heard "our friend" was part of that, that is who I

believed yesterday.

Q. As you said yesterday, sure it was the worst-kept secret? 347

A. In the unit.

Q. In that unit. So everyone in the IRA thought this guard 348

was reliable in providing information to the IRA?

A. He would have been, yes.

Q. And you have also given evidence that, at this stage, Owen 349

Corrigan had provided a tip-off in respect of Omeath, isn't

that so?

A. He had helped in Omeath. He didn't give a tip-off.

Q. Yes. So this was a reliable source of information for the 350

IRA, isn't that correct?

A. He would have been taken as it, yes.

Q. So when he gave information about Tom Oliver, you believed 351

it?

A. It was there. I mean, why would I not believe it?

Q. Of course, because you had to believe it, there was a 352

reliable mole, this was a reliable source of information,

isn't that correct?

A. Yeah, you would take it that, yes.

Q. As a result of what Owen Corrigan said to you in the car -- 353

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A. He said to 'Mooch', not me.

Q. You were in the car, he said it to the IRA -- as a result 354

of that, there was no doubt but that Tom Oliver was going

to be murdered?

A. No, he would have been arrested. The thing is, sir, when

the IRA arrest someone they suspect of being an informer,

what actually happens is, and it is usually their rule, is

if that person doesn't break down and admit it, nothing

happens to them, and that has happened a few times when

people get arrested by the IRA, get interrogated and do get

released, and, if the proof is not there for them, the

rules state that they can't kill them. I know there have

been incidents where people have been put down holes and

disappeared, but the main rule with the IRA: if they do

not admit it, you can't touch them.

Q. What was Owen Corrigan wearing when he got into the car 355

with you?

A. Clothes.

Q. What type of clothes? 356

A. Clothes worn by a man.

Q. And was he wearing Garda clothes? 357

A. No, sir, he was in ordinary civilian clothes. I don't know

the colour of his shoes, either.

Q. I want to say this to you, Mr. Keeley, and I haven't said 358

it before to a witness. In respect of the evidence you are

giving about Owen Corrigan, and in particular the evidence

about Fintan Callan's Céilí House, you have revealed

yourself in this Tribunal as a pathological liar. Would

you like to comment on that?

A. That is your view on that, sir.

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Q. Do you disagree on that? 359

A. I do disagree, yeah.

Q. And fortunately, we can verify that you are a pathological 360

liar.

A. Right.

Q. And let me tell you why: Owen Corrigan went on certified 361

sick-leave from An Garda Siochana on the 4th of December,

1989, some 20 months before Tom Oliver was murdered?

A. Right.

Q. It was well before you say he gave this sensitive 362

information to 'Mooch' Blair?

A. Right.

Q. After going on sick-leave on the 4th of December, 1989, he 363

was totally unavailable to An Garda Siochana in 1990 and

1991, and he subsequently retired from the Force on the 4th

of February, '92.

A. Right.

Q. He had no access to any Garda information about such 364

sensitive matters as who or was or was not informing.

A. Right.

Q. What do you say to that? 365

A. I mean, you are saying that is stating fact. I am stating

a fact of what actually happened. Just because he had no

official access to information, doesn't say he couldn't get

it or didn't know it from before. I don't know.

Q. How could he have got it? 366

A. I don't know. You tell me.

Q. Mr. Keeley, you are the person giving evidence to this 367

Tribunal.

A. He could have got it through a colleague or anything else,

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or a friend. I don't know. He may have known it before he

went on sick-leave, I don't know.

Q. So is it your evidence -- I thought you said what he had 368

said in the car was that Tom Oliver -- what did he say

about the shotgun?

A. He had been caught with an unlicensed shotgun. He didn't

say when.

Q. OK. So are you suggesting that Owen Corrigan gave evidence 369

about Tom Oliver being caught with a shotgun licence some

twenty months --

A. Not with a shotgun licence. An unlicensed shotgun.

Q. An unlicensed shotgun?370

A. Yeah.

Q. Is that what you are trying to suggest?371

A. I don't know when. I don't know when he found that out.

That is what he had said, yes.

Q. When you and 'Mooch' met him in the car, did you believe he 372

was a serving member of An Garda Siochana?

A. I believed he was still serving. I had no reason to know

any different. I mean, I had no contact with Garda

Corrigan.

Q. How do you explain this insurmountable problem to your 373

story?

A. What do you mean, how do I explain it? I didn't know he

had left the Garda or was on the sick. I wouldn't need to.

I had no contact with the Garda at any time. You know, he

wasn't my contact, so I had no reason to, you know, think,

is he still in the police? Is he not? There had been UDR

men in Newry had been shot dead something like six or eight

years after they had left the Force because people thought

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they were still in it.

Q. Mr. Keeley, how do you explain this insurmountable obstacle 374

to your account that Owen Corrigan was giving sensitive

Garda information in May or June 1991? Give an

explanation?

A. Well, to me, I still thought he was in the Guards. I have

no reason to think he wasn't in the Guards.

Q. He was out of the Guards on sick-leave from the 4th of 375

December, 1989; he had no involvement with An Garda

Siochana at that time.

A. Sure I wouldn't know that, would I?

Q. I know, but do you not realise that it builds a hole in 376

your whole story?

A. No, sir, I don't think it does.

Q. Sure how could he have gained access to this information? 377

A. How could I gain access on people in the IRA even though I

had left the IRA maybe two or three years beforehand and

was still able to get them arrested?

Q. Why are you making up lies about -- 378

A. I am not making up lies, sir.

Q. You are. You know you are. 379

A. I am not, sir.

Q. I know you are. 380

A. Well, that is your opinion, if you think I am, but I am

telling you now I am not.

Q. And what have you got against Owen Corrigan? Are you using 381

him to advance what could be your own legitimate grievance

against former British employers?

A. Sir, I have no grievance with Owen Corrigan or anything

else. My legal case against British employers, I don't see

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how this will forward it in any way whatsoever. I am going

through the courts with my legal team against my former

employers. This will not benefit me one piece.

Q. Do you get prominence for this, Mr. Keeley? 382

A. Prominence, why would I want prominence?

Q. Why do you write a book? 383

A. That was many years ago.

Q. Yes. 384

A. Yes.

Q. Why did you -- 385

A. What would I gain -- how would I gain the prominence for

being here for this? Go on, tell me.

Q. One of the answers -- an answer to that was given by one of 386

the RUC officers, "attention-seeking ego". You are a

fantasist, you are a liar.

A. No, sir, I am not.

Q. You are, Mr. Keeley, and what you have done to my client -- 387

A. If that is the case, I would be in the newspapers every

day.

Q. Sure you are in the newspapers. I have cuttings here of 388

newspapers, of fantastic stories you have told.

A. But how many years ago?

Q. From 2004. There are fantastic stories out there, 389

Mr. Keeley.

A. Yeah, it's --

Q. You went to Mr. Donaldson, you gave him this information - 390

gullibly, he swallowed it - and you have got yourself

prominence as a result of that, isn't that so?

A. No, sir, I don't agree with that at all. I don't want

prominence.

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Q. When you heard Owen Corrigan pass on this information about 391

Tom Oliver, what did you do?

A. I drove 'Mooch' back to Dundalk.

Q. When did you report this significant intelligence to your 392

employers?

A. It would have been reported shortly after it and again then

in -- again in another debrief, after that, with MI5, it

was mentioned then as well.

Q. At the time, is what I am interested in? 393

A. I can't remember who I gave it to --

Q. Would it have been shortly after this alleged incident? 394

A. No, it would have been a while after it. I just never

bothered with it.

Q. You never bothered with it? 395

A. No.

Q. This is crucial information about a member of An Garda 396

Siochana tipping off the IRA in order that they could

murder a decent man from County Louth, and you did nothing

about it?

A. There is nothing I could do about it.

Q. You could have tipped off your employers, your handlers. 397

Why didn't you tell your handlers about it?

A. They were told a while after it, so they were.

Q. How long afterwards? 398

A. I can't remember how long afterwards.

Q. A week? 399

A. I can't --

Q. A month? 400

A. I can't remember how long after it.

Q. You can't remember how long after it? 401

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A. No.

Q. What was the name of the handler? Do you know the name of 402

the handler to whom you reported?

A. No. I can remember one of the debriefs, the people that

were present at that.

Q. I am asking you can you remember -- 403

A. Yeah, but I'm just after telling you I can remember the

debrief and some of the handlers there, yeah.

Q. I'll ask his name. Can you remember the name of the 404

handler to whom you reported this information afterwards?

A. Afterwards, yeah. I can give you a couple of names.

Q. Write down the names and give them to the Chairman. And 405

you are stating you've told these people in the period

after this information was given to you in Fintan Callan's

Céilí House?

A. They would have got it after that and then after his death.

Q. How long after it?406

A. I can't remember how long after it.

Q. Are we talking months? 407

A. I can't remember how long. Sorry.

Q. Did you tell them before he was murdered? 408

A. No, because he wasn't murdered at that time.

Q. I know, but did you tell -- you were told this a number of 409

months before Mr. Oliver was murdered?

A. Yeah.

Q. Did you tell your handlers, before Mr. Oliver was murdered, 410

what had been said to you?

A. No, I told them afterwards.

Q. What use was that to Mr. Oliver? 411

A. When I had left the country, Mr. Oliver was still alive.

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Q. Write down those names. 412

A. There is another one, I can't think of his name.

Q. Now, when you gave this information to your handlers, did 413

they not say to you, "That can't be right, Corrigan isn't

working actively for the Guards any more"?

A. No.

Q. Were they not outraged by the actions of Detective Sergeant 414

Corrigan?

A. No.

Q. Did they do anything, that you are aware of, to tip off the 415

Irish authorities or the RUC about the actions of Detective

Sergeant Corrigan?

A. Not that I know of. Some of the people I told after at the

debrief were RUC, some of them were MI5.

Q. And so you told RUC people about this meeting -- 416

A. Afterwards.

Q. Afterwards?417

A. Yeah.

Q. How long afterwards? 418

A. It would have been after I came back from Paris.

Q. OK. We will come on to Paris in due course. That is an 419

interesting topic. Your evidence and your statement is

that Tom Oliver was abducted twice, isn't that so?

A. He was abducted once when I was there, and then when I was

in Paris he was killed.

Q. You state in your statement that you are "very surprised to 420

learn that no evidence of his first abduction can be

found."

A. Yes.

Q. And, to this day, no one can establish any evidence about 421

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Tom Oliver's first abduction, isn't that so?

A. Well, so yous have said, but I know he was abducted.

Q. Yes. Oh, he was abducted and the man was murdered. 422

A. Not the first time, he wasn't.

Q. Well, I have to suggest to you that if 'Mooch' Blair had 423

said in the car with Owen Corrigan -- or with you, after

Owen Corrigan left, that "I am going to blow his back out,"

that Tom Oliver's death sentence had already been signed?

A. No, because as I said before, sir, a lot of people are

abducted and don't get shot. I have been, not abducted,

but I've been interrogated by Internal Security and not

been shot. That happened me twice, because I never broke

down. 'Mooch' Blair had actually been abducted by Internal

Security as well, who they believed he was an informant at

one time. He didn't break down, so he wasn't shot.

Q. This is different, Mr. Keeley, because information had, 424

according to you, been given about Tom Oliver by a trusted

Garda mole, isn't that so?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. So I have to suggest to you that if what you say is correct 425

and that Owen Corrigan had provided information to the IRA

about Tom Oliver informing, that Tom Oliver was a dead man?

A. No, sir, not unless he admitted to the IRA. That is the

thing, you have to admit to them or they have to have

direct evidence. There is no direct evidence there. They

would have abducted, him, quizzed him. He was abducted

once before and he was released. He didn't admit anything.

I was in Paris when I heard then on the news that he had

been shot dead.

Q. Your evidence is that Tom Oliver was abducted. You played 426

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a role in his abduction?

A. I was a driver of the van, yes.

Q. Yes. After that, he was released; he wasn't shot on that 427

occasion?

A. Yes, yes.

Q. After that, you went to Paris? 428

A. Yes.

Q. And when you were in Paris, you heard that Tom Oliver was 429

murdered?

A. I think I was still in Paris when he was murdered, yes, so

I wasn't there when he was murdered, yes.

Q. Yes. A complete lie, Mr. Keeley. 430

A. Is it?

Q. And let me tell you why, and do you know who informs me 431

that it's a complete lie?

A. Who?

Q. You do. 432

A. How?

Q. Because in your book, you state the following, at page 158: 433

"I shrugged off their disapproval and in August 1991 headed

out to Paris." So you are telling us, in your book, that

you headed out to Paris in August 1991 after Tom Oliver was

murdered on the 18th of July, 1991.

A. I think, sir, you will find I am on record as saying there

is a lot of inaccuracies in the book. The dates would be

one of them.

Q. Mr. Keeley, there is a lot of inaccuracies in everything 434

that you say. Can you explain to the Chairman why it is in

the book that you tell your readers you went out to Paris

in August 1991 and you are trying to suggest to the

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Chairman here that you went out to Paris before Tom

Oliver's murder on the 18th of July, '91?

A. Well, sir, I was out in Paris before Tom Oliver was

murdered, and I will now go and try to get the actual dates

of the company when I was in Paris.

Q. I want to suggest to you that there were not two abductions 435

of Tom Oliver, do you agree with that?

A. Well, you are saying that. I say there was one abduction

where I was there and the second one when he was killed.

Q. I want to suggest to you that the reason you are telling 436

this Tribunal that you were in Paris at the time of Tom

Oliver's murder, is because you are trying to distance

yourself from Tom Oliver's murder?

A. No, sir, I wasn't here when Tom Oliver was murdered.

Definitely not.

Q. I want to state to you and ask for your comment upon it, 437

Mr. Keeley, that you were part of the team of thugs that

murdered Tom Oliver?

A. No, sir, I was not part of the team of thugs that murdered

Tom Oliver. I was not present.

Q. Yes. Well, let's read out to the public what you state in 438

your statement about your involvement in Tom Oliver's

abduction, and it's at page 13 of your statement. This is

what you say, and it wasn't read out yesterday:

"We pulled into the Ballymascanlon car park. There were

two cars there. I got out of the van and got into one of

the cars with the guy from Cooley and they all got into the

van and told us to wait outside a phone box on the opposite

side of the road from the hotel. The others went on to

arrest Oliver. At this stage, I didn't know him. While we

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were sitting chatting, we noticed the Border Patrol of the

Garda and there was an army jeep with them. They pulled in

behind us. The guy with me says, we have to get our

stories straight. I was to say I was giving out a price

for painting his house. The guard came to the window and

took all the details. We were very nervous because we were

expecting the team to come up behind us. They were all

armed. Luckily, the guards took our details and drove off,

and about three minutes later the boys came with the van

and they had a guy tied up in the back like a chicken.

They went into the Ballymascanlon and dropped them off. I

got into the van with 'Mooch' and then drove this person in

the back out to Kingscourt."

A. Yes.

Q. "He must have been wearing Wellingtons because there was 439

one Wellington boot left in the van."

Mr. Keeley, you have described there probably the last

moments of Tom Oliver's life?

A. No, sir, that is not the last moments of Tom Oliver's life.

Q. And, Mr. Keeley, the evidence you have given there and the 440

fact that your book says you only went to Paris after his

murder, suggests completely that you were involved in that

poor man's murder?

A. No, sir, I was not involved in the man's murder. He was

not murdered at that time. The date in the book must be

wrong. Yeah, as I am saying, there is inaccuracies in

dates in the book.

Q. So the date in the book is wrong? 441

A. Yeah.

Q. Here is something else you state in the book: You state 442

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that, after you arrived in Eurodisney, that about two weeks

into your contract, you heard that the Sunday Express ran a

story?

A. Yeah.

Q. What did that story say? 443

A. The headline was "IRA Gangs in Eurodisney."

Q. And what did it recount? 444

A. Just, they named myself, Joe Hawkey and some -- one of the

Gillans from Belfast. They are two Belfast men. It

described me as a prominent provisional from Newry.

Q. OK, OK. 445

A. And the story was by Barry Penrose, who worked for The

Sunday Times, and is an MI5 asset.

CHAIRMAN: Sorry, I didn't catch that?

A. An MI5 asset, he is an asset for MI5.

Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: OK. Put a date on this Sunday Express 446

story?

A. I can't put a date on it. It was there when I was in

Eurodisney because I got a call from a family member.

Q. I haven't got that Sunday Express article yet, but I assure 447

you --

A. Oh, it does exist.

Q. Oh, it does. But I want to raise something with you 448

because I think you have your dates wrong, and, again, the

effect of this is that you are around this country when Tom

Oliver was murdered. Did you ever hear of a website called

Newshound?

A. Yes.

Q. You are aware that somebody tried to assassinate Joe 449

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Haughey, are you?

A. I am, yeah, yeah.

Q. An account of that appeared on the website Newshound. Let 450

me just read out to you what it says. It says: "On the

16th of June, 1991..." Just pause on that date for a

second. The 16th of June, 1991, that is a month before Tom

Oliver was murdered. "... Joe Haughey was returning to his

Unity Walk home when loyalist gunmen opened fire from a

passing Sierra car. Having missed their target, the gunmen

then chased Haughey into the then-Unity Flats complex and

opened fire again. He was hit in the arm. The shooting

came just a year after a British newspaper named Haughey as

an IRA intelligence officer and claimed he got a job at

Eurodisney. He was later paid off by a construction

company."

Now, if that is correct, you were out working for

Eurodisney in June 1990?

A. Well, the dates, I am not sure on, but, as I say, I will go

and look up the dates.

Q. Yes. But again, puts you in Ireland at the time Tom Oliver 451

was murdered?

A. No, sure I wasn't here when he got murdered.

Q. Because you are quite categoric in your statement and in 452

your evidence, you say you learned about Tom Oliver's

murder through the newspapers which were brought out to you

in Paris?

A. No, I had heard about it when I was out in Paris.

Q. Yes. Through the newspapers? 453

A. And people telling me as well.

Q. Sorry, did you hear about it through the newspapers? 454

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A. I could have, yes.

Q. OK. Well, let me just point to you what you've stated in 455

your statement, Mr. Keeley. You say, at page 15 of your

statement: "After that abduction" -- what you claim is the

first abduction -- "I wanted to back off. I took a job and

went to work in Eurodisney in Paris. I got the local

papers sent over to me and it was in these papers that I

learned that Tom Oliver had been shot dead. This could

have been in 1991, but I am not sure. It was a few weeks

after the conversation between 'Mooch' Blair and Owen

Corrigan that the first abduction took place."

Mr. Keeley, you are not telling the truth about the time

you were in Eurodisney; why not?

A. The date, I can't remember the exact date. What year was

it in - the early '90s?

Q. Well, you are the person who was there. 456

A. Yes.

Q. But the only thing you are specific about to this Chairman 457

is that you say you are absolutely certain that when Tom

Oliver was murdered --

A. I wasn't here.

Q. -- you were in Eurodisney? 458

A. I am positive I was in Eurodisney, and I was not involved

in his murder.

Q. OK. And, of course, the benefit of that, from your point 459

of view, is that if you were in Eurodisney, you couldn't

have been involved in this heinous murder?

A. No, but I wasn't involved in this heinous murder, sir.

Q. I have to suggest to you, Mr. Keeley, that the detail you 460

recount in your statement is the detail of the murder of

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Tom Oliver?

A. Well, I wouldn't know the details of his murder because I

wasn't there, but, I mean, have you got a report of the

details of that murder?

Q. I have a report from you. 461

A. No, no, but have you a report from the guards that can

detail where he was taken, or whatever?

Q. Mr. Keeley, I am talking about you and your involvement. 462

A. I was not involved in his murder.

Q. You had him tied up in the back of a van like a chicken, 463

Mr. Keeley.

A. On the first abduction, he was tied up like that, yes.

Q. And you are the man who has the nerve to put out a book 464

called, modestly, 'Unsung Hero - How I Saved Dozens of

Lives as a Secret Agent inside the IRA', and you drove a

man, who was tied up like a chicken in the back of your

van, to his murder?

A. Number one, I did not pick the title of the book and, no, I

did not drive Tom Oliver to his murder. Yeah, I had no

involvement in that murder, sir.

Q. You also claim in your statement that, prior to the murder 465

of Tom Oliver, you were involved in the IRA's Internal

Security Unit, is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Back to the book. In the book, at page 161, you state that 466

after your return from Eurodisney, that you were given a

promotion and that you were put into the Internal Security

Unit?

A. I didn't write the book, so, factually, they could have got

their dates wrong, sir.

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Q. When you say "they," who are you talking about? 467

A. There is two ghost writers, Ian Gallagher and Jim Nally.

They wrote the book.

Q. I now want to take you to the events of the 20th of March, 468

1989, when Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent

Buchanan were murdered. It's correct to say, I think, that

you have no direct knowledge as to whether or not Owen

Corrigan was involved in their murders?

A. Well, I was told, as you are rightly aware, that it was

"our friend," and I took that to be Owen Corrigan, yes.

Q. So I am correct, you have no direct knowledge? 469

A. No, I have no direct knowledge, no, and I wasn't involved

in that murder, either.

Q. Yes. Your evidence is that you assume or you speculate 470

that Owen Corrigan was involved, isn't that correct?

A. That is correct, yes.

Q. And just so as we can recount, your evidence is that on the 471

20th of March, 1989, you were in 'Mooch' Blair's house?

A. House in Dundalk, yes.

Q. Tell us what happened? 472

A. It was just we were in the house, we would have been

talking about stuff, and Mickey came over, reports coming

in there has been a shooting, and then we found out that it

was the police, and this is when it was said "our friend,"

so that is why I took it that it was "our friend," Owen

Corrigan.

Q. Just take it slowly, Mr. Keeley. You are in 'Mooch' 473

Blair's house?

A. Yes.

Q. What time of the day is this at? 474

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A. I would have been there most of the day.

Q. What time did Mickey Collins come over? 475

A. I didn't look at a watch.

Q. Morning? 476

A. Listen, you are trying to pin down. I don't know what

colour his shoes were, either.

Q. I am not asking you the colour of his shoes. 477

A. No, but I am only saying I didn't look at a watch in the

house there.

Q. Mickey Collins came over to 'Mooch' Blair's house, but you 478

don't know at what time?

A. No, I didn't look at a watch, no.

Q. What did Mickey Collins say to you? 479

A. He was actually saying it to 'Mooch'. I would have been

there in the room as well. Just about reports coming in of

a shooting. And we later found out it was two police

officers.

Q. OK. Let's take it slowly, Mr. Keeley. So he starts by 480

stating there are reports coming in of a shooting?

A. Yeah.

Q. And then there is a pause after that for a period of time, 481

is that correct?

A. No, later on he would have come over and told us and then

he would have said that is "our friend".

Q. So Mickey Collins comes into 'Mooch' Blair's house and 482

tells you there are reports coming in about a shooting. He

then leaves?

A. And then he came back at another time and said -- gave the

details, "our friend" was involved, yeah.

Q. OK. So he comes back later that day, is that correct? 483

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A. Later. I don't know at what time.

Q. And what does he say when he comes back? 484

CHAIRMAN: Can you give -- I mean, generally, people can

arrange to give a time relating to meals. It wasn't at

breakfast time --

A. No, no, it wasn't breakfast or dinner. It would be late

afternoon, early teatime.

CHAIRMAN: Very well.

Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: So Mickey Collins then comes back a 485

second time, Mr. Keeley, is that correct?

A. He would have been back over again later.

Q. Just don't do "would have been". You are the person who is 486

giving us this evidence, so be specific. If you don't

remember, you don't remember.

A. At this moment in time, I just don't remember.

Q. But you think that Mickey Collins comes back a second time 487

and tells you that the incident was the killing of two RUC

officers?

A. Yes.

Q. And are you stating on that occasion he says to you about 488

the friend?

A. "Our friend," yes.

Q. And what words did he use? 489

A. Just, it was "our friend" helped out.

Q. That is all he said? 490

A. Something like that, yeah.

Q. OK. And -- 491

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A. I took it to be Owen Corrigan.

Q. OK. He didn't mention Owen Corrigan? 492

A. Not by name, no, no, no.

Q. He didn't mention that Owen Corrigan had seen the officers 493

in the station?

A. No, he didn't say that.

Q. He didn't say that? 494

A. No, no.

Q. OK. This is what you said to Judge Cory: "I was in 495

Dundalk on the day of the ambush of Superintendent Buchanan

and Chief Superintendent Breen. I am aware that, after the

ambush took place, my senior IRA commander" -- presumably,

'Mooch' Blair --

A. Yes.

Q. -- "was told by a member of PIRA" -- presumably, Mickey 496

Collins -- "that Garda B had telephoned to the Provisional

IRA to tell them that officers Breen and Buchanan were at

the Dundalk Station."

A. No, well that wouldn't be totally correct, no.

Q. OK. In your statement to Judge Cory, there are two 497

substantive paragraphs, the one about Fintan Callan's Céilí

House and this one here. You are now stating that what you

said to Judge Cory is incorrect?

A. I can't remember it totally. If you are saying that is

what is written down on the statement --

Q. Yes, that's incorrect? 498

A. It's not totally correct.

Q. Yes, it's incorrect, you have said it already? 499

A. Yes.

Q. Why did you mislead Judge Cory? 500

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A. I would not have purposely misled Judge Cory, sir.

Q. You agree that he was misled? 501

A. Well, thinking back now, I couldn't remember the statement

I've made, it's so many years ago.

Q. But, sorry, your evidence here is completely different to 502

what you told Judge Cory, isn't that so?

A. Well, it's -- yeah.

Q. Why did you mislead Judge Cory?503

A. I didn't purposely mislead Judge Cory.

Q. You agree that he was misled by you? 504

A. No, I am not saying that he was misled. If I've stated

that on the statement, that is what it said, but from what

I can remember now, years later, that is what I made the

statement here, yes.

Q. Well, your evidence is what is relevant, Mr. Keeley. Your 505

evidence yesterday and today is that the only thing that

was said to you by Mickey Collins was "our friend helped

out in the operation".

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. You didn't say that to Judge Cory. You told Judge Cory 506

that you had this information that Owen Corrigan had seen

the officers at the station and he'd given that information

and you'd been told it was Owen Corrigan?

A. That is what I had took, yes.

Q. Yes. And that is completely inconsistent with what you 507

have told this Tribunal, do you agree?

A. Well, I said -- "our friend," I took, was Owen Corrigan.

Q. Yes.508

A. Yes.

Q. You don't even mention "our friend" in your statement to 509

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Judge Cory, do you?

A. No. As you said, I named him by name in that one.

Q. Yes. In your statement to Judge Cory, you state that your 510

"senior IRA commander was told by a member of PIRA that

Owen Corrigan had telephoned to the Provisional IRA to tell

them that officers Breen and Buchanan were at the Dundalk

Station." Where did you get that information from, since

it wasn't given to you on the day of the murders?

A. That would have been at a later date talking with 'Mooch',

because, remember, in the same -- one of the statements

where I was already told, after the operation, that the

intention was to capture the two officers alive and take

all their papers and that every road was covered. We

didn't know that at the exact time, either.

Q. You are now raising a new issue that the Tribunal and I 511

haven't heard of before, that, at a later date, 'Mooch'

Blair allegedly told you --

A. Or at a later time, yeah, 'Mooch' would have said that,

yeah.

Q. When was that said? 512

A. It could have been late that night or the next day.

Q. I have to suggest to you, Mr. Keeley, that, once again, you 513

are telling lies?

A. No, sir, I am not.

Q. But you believe that this is correct, what was said to 514

Judge Cory, do you?

A. I believe the main part of it -- yeah, that is correct,

yeah, even the account that it was "our friend," Owen

Corrigan, yes.

Q. And you believe that what happened and how these RUC 515

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officers were set up was that Owen Corrigan spotted them

when they were at the station?

A. That is what I believe.

Q. Yes. And that he phoned the Provisional IRA to tell 516

them --

A. He would have told, more than likely, Patsy O'Callaghan

and --

Q. And that is how this whole operation was sorted out? 517

A. Possibly, yes.

Q. Are you aware that the two RUC officers arrived in Dundalk 518

Station at ten past two on the day of the murders?

A. No, I wasn't aware of that.

Q. Are you aware that they left the Garda station at 519

twenty-five past three on the day of the murders?

A. No, I wasn't aware of that.

Q. So, according to your analysis, Owen Corrigan would have 520

had to have seen them between those times and reported to

the Provisional IRA, isn't that so?

A. Yes.

Q. So the Provisional IRA operation on the day must have 521

started after ten past two?

A. If you say that is the times and they are correct, yeah.

Q. You are the double agent. 522

A. I am the double agent, but I am the person just picked up

the information. I did not go and investigate it or look

at it and I was not part of it.

Q. You are an intelligent man, Mr. Keeley. 523

A. I am not actually, no.

Q. Well, my assessment of you is that you are. But you have 524

stated that the RUC -- or, sorry, the RUC officers arrived

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at ten past two. On your analysis, Corrigan must have

tipped off the IRA after ten past two?

A. Well, he couldn't have tipped them off before it, could he,

unless he knew there was a meeting on.

Q. Yeah, he couldn't have tipped them off?525

A. Unless he knew there was a meeting on, yeah.

Q. You have said in your statement that he saw them at the 526

station?

A. Yes.

Q. You have said in your statement to Judge Cory?527

A. Yeah.

Q. So he saw them at the station, is what you believe? 528

A. That is what I believe, yeah.

Q. How do you -- who did he phone? 529

A. The only person I know that he would have phoned would have

been Patsy O'Callaghan, because that was his contact.

Q. Do you think if the IRA were informed that -- or if Patsy 530

O'Callaghan informed at, say, quarter past two, that the

officers were in the station, that the IRA would have been

able to mount and launch an operation that was carried out

at ten to four?

A. Not at that short a notice, no.

Q. It's just not possible? 531

A. I think it's very short notice, yeah.

Q. And would you agree with me it's just not possible? 532

A. They would have to have known well in advance to make

advance plans and, you know, you'd need to know what day

they are coming up. You know, I don't think anybody

spotting them there, and then, just on a wing and a prayer,

could get that amount of people together. I don't think

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it's possible, no. Not to cover every road, that is what I

was told, every road was covered by IRA units.

Q. If evidence was given that the IRA operation on the morning 533

started at half past eleven, that would have given them

sufficient time, wouldn't it?

A. From half eleven in the morning, yeah.

Q. Yes. Are you aware what time the IRA operation started? 534

A. No, I had no part in it so I would have no knowledge of it

at all, sir.

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Chairman, there is a matter that I

probably should just mention to your counsel before we

proceed, and maybe if you wouldn't mind, Chairman, could we

rise now? There is just an issue as to evidence that has

been given to the Tribunal and as to whether or not it

could be put to the witness.

CHAIRMAN: Certainly, I think this would be appropriate.

We would normally be rising in about eight minutes, so I

might as well rise now until after lunch, and if you

continue with your cross-examination then.

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Yes. Thank you, Chairman.

THE TRIBUNAL THEN ADJOURNED FOR LUNCH.

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THE TRIBUNAL CONTINUED AFTER LUNCH AS FOLLOWS:

CHAIRMAN: Right, Mr. O'Callaghan, if you want to begin.

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Thank you, Chairman.

Good afternoon, Mr. Keeley.

A. Good afternoon.

Q. Mr. Keeley, before lunch we were talking about the fact 535

that the deceased RUC officers arrived in Dundalk Garda

Station at ten past two?

A. Yes.

Q. And they left the station at 3:25, isn't that correct? 536

A. Yeah.

Q. And you have stated that it is your belief that Owen 537

Corrigan saw them at the station and that he tipped off the

IRA about their presence there, isn't that correct?

A. Yeah.

Q. And your basis for that is just your own assumption, 538

really, isn't that so?

A. That was -- what were the conversations, yeah.

Q. The Tribunal has heard evidence that the British Army has 539

information that the IRA operation on the ground on the

20th of March, 1989, started at 11:30 a.m.?

A. Right.

Q. What do you think of that? 540

A. Well, if you are saying they have evidence of that, well,

you know...

Q. Would you agree with me that if that evidence is correct, 541

that Mr. Corrigan couldn't have tipped off the IRA after

ten past two that afternoon?

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A. Well, let's see the evidence. I mean, you can't say that

he couldn't have, you know. I mean, my view would be the

IRA couldn't conduct an operation of that scale in a very,

very short period of time, you know.

Q. I understand and I appreciate what you are stating there. 542

I am, however, asking you something slightly different,

which is that if there was evidence that the British Army

had information that the IRA on the ground were -- and the

British Army, as you are aware, has means of identifying --

A. Oh, absolutely.

Q. Isn't that correct? 543

A. Yes, they would have, yes.

Q. And if the British Army have that evidence, indicating that 544

the operation of the IRA started at 11:30 a.m., then it

would mean that the operation had started before the

officers ever arrived in Dundalk?

A. Well, it seems to me what you are saying, that they had

information that maybe those officers were going to come to

the place, yeah.

Q. Just deal with specifically what I am asking you, 545

Mr. Keeley.

A. Right.

Q. If the British Army had information that the operation 546

launched by the IRA commenced at 11:30 a.m. that morning,

isn't it correct that that would mean that Mr. Corrigan

wasn't the cause of the officers being attacked when he saw

them in the station at ten past two?

A. Let's go to other things. I have been on IRA operations

where you know where an army patrol comes down a certain

street every day or some days at such a time, but sometimes

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you need a trigger-person to give you the heads-up, you

know, when they are coming. I am just saying you know they

use a certain street, so what you do is you put your

trigger-man out, or your dicker as the army would call

them, and your dicker gives you the heads-up of when they

are coming, and then you do your job. If you know people

are going to a certain place at certain times, you know,

you still need your dicker to give you the heads-up that

the target is coming.

Q. And isn't that the likely way that the IRA launched this 547

attack on the two officers, that they kept them under

observation and maybe they did have dickers, as you call

them, around, notifying?

A. It is quite possible, I don't know. I was not part of that

operation, I know nothing about it.

Q. Okay. But you don't know that Owen Corrigan tipped off the 548

Provisional IRA, sure you don't?

A. Well, from the conversation with Mickey Collins, and that,

I said that is what I assumed, it is "our friend," yeah.

Q. You assumed that? 549

A. Do I have actual evidence? Of course not.

Q. Okay. That is an important admission, Mr. Keeley. In 550

terms of the point that I was making about the British Army

evidence, however, is it not the case that if the operation

had started at half eleven, that the IRA were waiting for

these men as and from half eleven in the morning?

A. If that is what they were waiting on. I mean, I don't

know, I have never heard of it or seen it.

Q. If that was the case, you would accept that, that the IRA 551

were waiting?

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A. You would have to look at that, wouldn't you? I mean, I

don't know, I haven't seen --

Q. I know you haven't, but, from your experience, you would 552

agree with me that that would indicate that maybe,

actually, there wasn't a tip-off from the Garda station?

A. Well, the way you are speaking there, I would nearly think

did the IRA know they were going to come down that day.

Q. You may -- 553

A. I mean, the IRA would not sit out -- I mean, it wouldn't be

my experience that the IRA would sit in a border road, or

somewhere, waiting for an army patrol to come with a

landmine on the off-chance hoping that they came. They

would have to know, you know, they come this way or they

should be coming today, you know. You wouldn't sit out,

waiting. Number one, it puts volunteers, IRA volunteers,

at risk, great risk of getting caught, shot dead, you know.

The IRA just don't do that, you know. You would have to

have some sort of information that, you know, this is going

to happen, or whatever, before you would do it -- sorry.

Q. But it is the case, Mr. Keeley, you don't know how this 554

operation was launched by the IRA?

A. No, I wasn't there, I wasn't part of it.

Q. Do you suggest that Owen Corrigan was handled by 555

Mr. Freddie Scappaticci?

A. No, I don't. I have never said that.

Q. Ian Hurst, are you aware of who he is? 556

A. I am indeed, yes.

Q. He has stated that in a statement to this Tribunal which he 557

has put on the Internet. He is wrong about that, is he?

A. I haven't seen his statement.

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Q. I am not going to open all the statement of him to you, but 558

it is on the Internet, and he says on it that Freddie

Scappaticci was Mr. Owen Corrigan's handler. You never

heard of that in all your time?

A. No, no. Patrick O'Callaghan was.

Q. Okay. You also stated in your statement that the IRA 559

planned to abduct and interrogate the two RUC officers?

A. Yeah.

Q. From whom did you hear this? 560

A. 'Mooch'.

Q. When did he tell you this? 561

A. After the incident had happened and then -- sorry, go on.

Q. How long afterwards, sorry? 562

A. It would have been in days, because then the IRA issued a

statement to their own volunteers, because, I mean, it was

big news that they had captured the books, you know, of the

police officers and they had worked out the codes, and it

gave informants' names, and it would have scared everybody.

Q. And is it your evidence that the IRA did actually seize the 563

officers' notebooks containing names of informers in code?

A. That was what we were led to believe. I don't know whether

they did or not. I wasn't part of the operation.

Q. You don't know whether that happened? 564

A. I don't know whether it happened. Of course I don't.

Q. But the only reason I ask you is, because in The Observer 565

article on the 14th of November, 2004, this is what

Mr. McDonald says about what you said to him. He says:

"Fulton claims that the murders of Breen and Buchanan on

the main Dublin to Belfast road was a major coup for the

IRA because the hit-squad involved seized the officers'

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notebooks containing names of informers in code."

Did you say that to Mr. McDonald?

A. Maybe not in those words. I might have told him what I was

actually told. He edited and produced his own story.

Q. So you think he got that wrong?566

A. Well, I mean, I have never seen the books, but the IRA did

tell people, their own IRA people, that they had got the

names. They gave them an amnesty to come forward and they

wouldn't be shot dead. So whether any people did come

forward, I don't know.

Q. Now, after you received this information on the 20th of 567

March, 1989, and your supposition was that Owen Corrigan

had provided the tip-off, to whom did you report that?

A. I remember telling it to a mixture of MI5, there was army

and police would have been at a meeting.

Q. Could you write down the names of the people -- 568

A. It would have been the same people.

CHAIRMAN: The same people you have already given me the

names of?

A. Yes.

Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: And when did you tell them this? 569

A. At a hotel in London. I can't remember the exact date.

Q. Was it a couple of weeks or months after? 570

A. It could be weeks after it or months after it. I can't

remember.

Q. Weeks or months after. It was certainly in 1989? 571

A. I think it was, yeah.

Q. Okay. What was their reaction? 572

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A. A lot of these meetings, people don't give a reaction; they

just take notes of what you are saying.

Q. Did they appear to you to be outraged or concerned at this 573

information?

A. No, no more than any other thing, no.

Q. Did they ask you to try and obtain further information on 574

Owen Corrigan?

A. No. They would have known if I got any more information, I

would have handed it over. It is just the way you do it.

Q. You were then arrested, of course, and interrogated in 575

Dundalk Garda Station, some three months after the murders

of Breen and Buchanan, isn't that correct?

A. Aye.

Q. And you saw Owen Corrigan in the station? 576

A. Yeah.

Q. That must have aroused your interest and attention? 577

A. Not really, no.

Q. Did you -- 578

A. When you went in there, you just don't answer questions.

Q. Did you not think to yourself, there is the guy who is 579

working with the IRA?

A. Not really, no.

Q. What did the handlers ask you to do in respect of getting 580

information about Owen Corrigan?

A. You see, that's what you're thinking there, you think the

task is specifically -- what you do is, just any

information you'd get, you give. You know, it could be we

have done nothing this week, we made incendiary bombs, we

are testing explosives. You just go and report your stuff.

Q. What, specifically, did you state to your handlers in the 581

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weeks or months after the murders of Breen and Buchanan?

A. All I would have stated was exactly what was said by

'Mooch' Blair and Mickey, and that, nothing else. I mean,

I didn't know anything else about it.

Q. But did you tell them just that you heard "'our friend' had 582

helped us," or did you go further and say "Owen Corrigan"?

A. I would have said "our friend" and I would have used the

word "Corrigan". I mean, my handlers knew who Owen

Corrigan was as well.

Q. I am concerned when I hear you use the words "I would have 583

said". Is that what you did say to them?

A. I am sure I would have. You are talking many years ago. I

would have told them about it. I mean, I can't remember

exactly word-for-word what I have said. You are asking

impossible questions for anyone to remember.

Q. I don't think so, Mr. Keeley. 584

A. Well, I think -- well, in my type of work -- maybe, in your

type of work, you are very specific. In my type of work,

words, you don't remember exact words that you are using,

sir.

Q. But you understand the importance of the position of my 585

client?

A. I do understand the importance to you, yes, I do.

Q. And you are effectively accusing my client of being a 586

murderer and breaching his fundamental duty to serve this

State, by giving information to the IRA?

A. He was a police officer.

Q. It is a fairly serious allegation? 587

A. Absolutely, it is, yes.

Q. And as I said to you before, your story doesn't stack up. 588

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A. Well, I know I am telling the truth, sir.

Q. Well, is there any reason why you would go out of your way 589

to damage Owen Corrigan? Does it assist you?

A. No, absolutely not.

Q. But does it not assist you -- you have gone to individuals 590

who have expressed an interest in this, isn't that so?

A. Who has expressed the interest?

Q. You went to Jeffrey Donaldson, and he was interested in 591

this, wasn't he?

A. Yes.

Q. And would you agree with me that part of the reason he was 592

interested in this was because it suited his political

agenda at the time?

A. Sir, I don't really know anything about politics. I don't

follow politics, or anything else. I mean, I have nothing

to gain out of this whatsoever.

Q. Have you spoken to Toby Harnden about this matter? 593

A. No, sir, I don't even know Toby Harnden.

Q. Have you spoken to retired RUC Officer Alan Mains about 594

this matter?

A. No, sir, definitely not.

Q. Have you spoken to an Irish Times journalist, Kevin Myers, 595

about the matter?

A. No, sir, I don't know Kevin Myers.

Q. You have, however, spoken to Jeffrey Donaldson, isn't that 596

so?

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Q. When did you meet him? 597

A. Again, sir, I can't remember dates.

Q. He says he met you either at the end of 1999 or early 2000. 598

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Does that ring a bell with you?

A. It would have been after 2000, because I didn't leave the

country until after that.

Q. So what date do you think it was? 599

A. It would have been around 2000. I can't give an exact date

or an exact month or day.

Q. He made a statement in the House of Commons on the 13th of 600

April, 2000, in which he named Owen Corrigan.

A. Right.

Q. He said here, last Friday, that the only source of Owen 601

Corrigan's name was you?

A. Right.

Q. Therefore, he must have met you before the 13th of April, 602

2000; you would agree with that?

A. I can't remember the dates, sir. You would need to check

with Jeffrey Donaldson his exact date as well.

Q. How was that meeting with Jeffrey Donaldson set up? 603

A. A person from FAIR came to me through a journalist.

Q. That is Mr. Frazer? 604

A. William Frazer, that is correct, sir.

Q. And what journalist did he come through? 605

A. I would not like to state the journalist's name publicly,

but I can give it to...

Q. Yes, if you can write it down, Mr. Keeley, yes. 606

(Witness writes name down and hands to the Chairman.)

What did you tell Jeffrey Donaldson when you met him?

A. What do you mean, what did I tell him? Just my

experiences, that I worked within the IRA, with the British

intelligence, who I worked for.

Q. What else did you tell him? 607

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A. I told him about the contact with Owen Corrigan.

Q. In the context of? 608

A. The meeting in Fintan Callan's Ceili House.

Q. And what murders did you mention to him? 609

A. Again, sir, because of the legal things, because of the

police inquiries into my activities, and the agent, I would

rather not go into that publicly.

Q. Mr. Keeley, I don't want to ask you about murders that you 610

were involved in that you spoke to Mr. Donaldson about, I

want you to give evidence as to what murders you say Owen

Corrigan was involved in that you spoke to Jeffrey

Donaldson about?

A. You want -- it would have been the Breen and Buchanan.

Q. That was it?611

A. And I would have told him about Tom Oliver.

Q. So Breen and Buchanan and Tom Oliver. Did you tell him 612

anything else?

A. Not that I can remember, sir.

Q. Because Mr. Donaldson gave evidence last Friday, and at 613

page 6 he said, this is the reference to you, he says:

"He then went to talk in general terms about the Breen and

Buchanan murders because he knew of my interest in

particular in that and the murders of Lord and Lady Gibson,

and he said that he had information which would link a

member of the Garda with the passing of information to the

IRA at the time of the murder of the two senior police

officers."

Did you talk to Mr. Donaldson about the murders of Lord and

Lady Gibson?

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A. I may have, but I would not have involved Owen Corrigan

there.

Q. So you have no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Owen 614

Corrigan was involved in setting up Lord and Lady Gibson?

A. Oh, absolutely not, no.

Q. Where did Mr. Donaldson get this information from? 615

A. You would need to ask Mr. Donaldson that. I did not

mention Owen Corrigan in any way connected to Lord Gibson.

Q. You mention in your statement as well, and you mentioned 616

this a few times this morning, that "cops in the North were

also helping us as well."

A. Yes.

Q. Am I to take from that, Mr. Keeley, that you are stating 617

that there were RUC officers who colluded with the IRA?

A. Not with me, but with the IRA. Of course there was, yes.

Of course.

Q. Would you, and please don't, but would you be able to 618

identify them?

A. Absolutely. I mean, it is public knowledge certain ones

that were, and there is other people that is not public

knowledge but I can give you their name, no problem.

Q. Would you write them down because it would be of relevance 619

to the Inquiry.

A. Yes.

Q. I would ask you not to name them because it would be 620

extremely unfair to name people.

A. Yes.

(Witness writes names down and hands to the Chairman.)

The spelling may not be totally correct, but you will know

the person. He was with -- yeah.

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Q. Can I ask you, Mr. Keeley, how many individuals did you 621

list there?

A. Two.

Q. Two? 622

A. Yeah.

Q. And were they ever convicted of an offence of -- 623

A. One of them was; one of them was not. He was arrested and

then he was put out of the RUC.

Q. Okay. And was he put out on the basis that he was 624

colluding with the IRA?

A. I don't know what way they got rid of him, but they got him

out. He was arrested over the mortar attack in Newry and

some other things in Warrenpoint.

Q. And are those specific details publicly known? 625

A. On one -- one of the gentlemen, there is a lot of stuff, I

think he may have been convicted, one of the first

officers.

Q. But on the other officer -- 626

A. I don't believe he was ever convicted, but, I mean, he is

well-known to the police and -- yeah.

Q. And what was he involved in, without being too specific? 627

A. He was arrested at the time of the mortar attack, you know,

in Newry RUC Station.

Q. Yes. 628

A. For it and a few other things, yeah.

Q. And he was an RUC officer? 629

A. He was an RUC reservist, yes.

Q. And are you saying he colluded with the RUC in respect of 630

the attack on the RUC station?

A. What I am saying is, that is what he was suspected of by

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the RUC, and he had an associate with a man in Dundalk, as

well, who was closely associated with 'Slab' Murphy.

Q. And do you know what level of assistance he provided to the 631

IRA in respect of this attack?

A. No, because he wasn't giving it to me, but it was

well-known that he was doing it as well, and the police

knew that as well.

Q. Have you ever given that information to Jeffrey Donaldson? 632

A. I don't think I gave him the gentleman in Warrenpoint. I

may and I may not have. To me, it is not really important.

I know that yous look at it differently than I would.

Q. Would you have any objection if that information was given 633

to Jeffrey Donaldson?

A. Absolutely no objection.

Q. Okay. You said in your statement and in your evidence that 634

Owen Corrigan was a friend of Patsy O'Callaghan, is that

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever see them together socialising? 635

A. No, I didn't, sir, no.

Q. So, in effect, you were told by people that Owen Corrigan 636

was friendly with Patsy O'Callaghan?

A. Yes.

Q. Just so as you are aware, Owen Corrigan says he has never 637

met him, he is certainly not a friend of him, but he has

heard of him.

A. Oh, right.

Q. Do you have any reason to doubt Mr. Corrigan in terms of 638

what he said?

A. Well, if that is what Mr. Corrigan is saying, that is what

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Mr. Corrigan is saying.

Q. You have never seen them together? 639

A. Absolutely not, no.

Q. Is it fair to say, Mr. Keeley, that a lot of what you are 640

saying here is based on what you heard and speculation

and --

A. But I have never said that it was anything else, do you

understand? I mean, I did not -- Owen Corrigan didn't come

to me, he wasn't my friend, he wasn't 'Mooch's'. It was

known that he was Patrick O'Callaghan's.

Q. So you know very little about Owen Corrigan's involvement 641

in assisting the IRA, as you allege?

A. Absolutely, yeah.

Q. Do you remember Mr. Corrigan being assaulted with his wife 642

in Dundalk or outside Dundalk?

A. No.

Q. Did you not mention that in your statement, one of your 643

statements to the Tribunal?

A. No, I don't think -- are you saying with his wife, he was

abducted, him and another man, and they were beat up, yeah.

Q. No, this is another time. 644

A. No, I don't think so.

Q. Just bear with me a second. So you are not aware of him 645

being attacked with his wife. Were you in Dundalk around

the time of the extradition of Dominic McGlinchey?

A. I would have been hanging about, I think, yeah.

Q. Do you remember posters being put up of Owen Corrigan 646

stating "wanted for treason" because he was the garda who

handled --

A. No, I don't actually remember that at all, no.

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Q. You don't remember that. Would it surprise you that that 647

had happened?

A. Oh, no, these things happen as well. The best way for

anyone's street credibility, it was the same in the RUC

with me, I used to get beat up by police officers who

wouldn't have known what I was doing, but again, my

handlers used to worry. It could have been stopped, but it

wasn't in their interest to stop it because it gave your

street credibility the boost. If you were known to be

friendly, physically, with people as well, it is not good

for your career.

Q. Of course, there is another completely innocent 648

explanation, is that they regarded him as an

anti-republican guard who was doing his duty, isn't that

so?

A. They could have, but I know instances in Newry, as well,

where one guy was knee-capped twice and he went on to join

the IRA as well.

Q. Okay. But I am talking about Mr. Corrigan. 649

A. Oh, yeah. Sorry, sir.

Q. Okay. Mr. Corrigan. You know, there is a benign... 650

A. Sorry, yeah.

Q. Throughout your career in terms of providing information, 651

you have received money for it, isn't that how you are paid

for it?

A. I have been paid for my information. I mean, what you have

got to understand: When you are working for MI5 or the

army, you are not able to take another job, so therefore,

you are doing a full-time job for them, so therefore, they

pay you a wage, your basic wage.

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Q. Can you list for us the agencies for which you were 652

allegedly working?

A. Yeah.

Q. Thanks. 653

A. Do you want me to do it now, yeah?

Q. Please. 654

A. British Army, MI5.

Q. Yeah. 655

A. Customs and Excise.

Q. Yeah. 656

A. And police. I was not handled by -- well, I was not

handled by Special Branch, but at the end I was handled by

CID, which was not -- it is not the same as Special Branch.

Q. And does that include the Drug Squad, as well? 657

A. The Drug Squad would be RUC, CID.

Q. Okay. Okay. And -- 658

A. Yeah.

Q. Right. And are you still working for any of them? 659

A. I am working for no agency at all.

Q. You are not still working for MI5, or anything like that? 660

A. No.

Q. You have also, and correct me if I am wrong, made money 661

from selling your stories to newspapers, is that fair to

say?

A. One newspaper, yes.

Q. Which newspaper was that? 662

A. The Mail on Sunday.

Q. How much did they pay you? 663

A. They had signed a contract for £30,000 and reneged on it

and done a hatchet job on it because they had another

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source within Special Branch as well as the Metropolitan

police, and this is at the time Ronnie Flanagan came out

with the stuff, Walter Mitty, fantasist, and Special Branch

helped them with the story to try to discredit me.

Q. And are you aware that Chris Ryder wrote an article in The 664

Irish Times on the 25th of January, 2002, in which he says

that a Sunday newspaper had agreed to pay you £50,000?

A. That is a load of nonsense, sir.

Q. Is that the same alleged payment that you are talking 665

about?

A. I don't know, what was the story? Have you got it there?

Q. It was prior to the Omagh story, it was part of -- 666

A. Oh, this is Chris Ryder?

Q. The journalist. 667

A. Oh, Chris Ryder, his wife was a senior RUC officer at the

time. Yeah, yeah, I know who you are on about, yeah.

Q. I didn't know -- 668

A. Again, I think you will find that story is misinformation,

it is rubbish.

Q. Do you know Mr. Ryder? 669

A. I know of Mr. Ryder. I don't know him personally.

Q. But his article says that the Mail, I think, had agreed to 670

pay you £50,000 for your Omagh story?

A. Well, that is even more than they had agreed with me on a

contract, sir.

Q. Okay. Do you still try to -- you still in contact with 671

journalists, obviously, quite frequently?

A. I know a few journalists, yes.

Q. Do you still try to get your stories into the newspapers? 672

A. Absolutely not, sir. I haven't put stories of mine into

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the papers for a number of years. I keep out of them as

best as possible.

Q. You came into, I suppose, the public domain, Mr. Keeley, 673

because of the row between you and your employers, is that

fair to say?

A. What were you talking about? Tell me what -- tell me the

road you are going down and I will correct you if it needs

correcting.

Q. Okay. In 1999, you were concerned about the fact you 674

hadn't been paid compensation by the Ministry of Defence?

A. What story? Give me more on it. You can't. No, but I

can't remember. I don't know even know what story you are

referring to, sir.

Q. I am just asking you, it is contained in the -- 675

A. But it is common knowledge that I am in a dispute with the

people I worked with. That is common knowledge, sir.

Q. Okay. And you think you have been treated very unfairly by 676

them?

A. At that time, yes, I was, absolutely.

Q. Do you still think you are being treated very unfairly by 677

them?

A. Well, there is a legal case going on into that. At the

minute, I am being treated very fairly by the MI5, so it

is. They have taken control.

Q. So you are still being -- 678

A. There is a legal action pending.

Q. Okay. But you are still involved with MI5, although -- 679

A. I am not involved with MI5, no.

Q. I thought you said you were being treated very well by MI5? 680

A. My expenses and the place where I live is being paid by

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those people. I am not involved with them and I don't work

for them or with them.

Q. So MI5 are paying for your -- 681

A. My accommodation.

Q. Your accommodation? 682

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember there was an article written by Matthew 683

Teague in The Atlantic magazine?

A. I do, yes.

Q. He, in that article, said you took him back to your house. 684

A. At that time, yeah.

Q. I won't identify it, I don't need to identify where it is, 685

but he said that you lived in an expensive flat with heavy

security overlooking a well-known London landmark. Is that

a fair assessment of your accommodation?

A. Possibly, yes.

Q. And that is being paid for by MI5? 686

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have MI5 spoken to you about your cooperation with, and 687

giving evidence to, this Tribunal?

A. Absolutely not, sir, no.

Q. Who do you talk to from MI5 when you want to talk to them? 688

A. Absolutely no one, sir.

Q. You don't talk to them? 689

A. No, sir, I don't.

Q. Well, if there are issues -- they are paying your rent on 690

an ongoing basis, aren't they?

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Q. And are you getting a wage from them on an ongoing basis? 691

A. I get a subsistence to help me survive.

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Q. Do you think it is in the interests of MI5 to reach a 692

finding that there was collusion between Garda Síochána

members and the IRA?

A. I think everyone will know that this Tribunal will reach an

honest opinion at the very end. I don't think it is in

anyone's -- in their opinion or not in their opinion, a

good or bad thing. I mean, they have no control over what

is coming here, sir, and I wouldn't have no idea what MI5

are thinking.

Q. You have also claimed, and maybe this is incorrect, but 693

Mr. McDonald, again in an article, claims that you claimed

that Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan

were murdered by the British Security Services?

A. That's absolute nonsense. I would never have said that.

Q. In an article published on the 11th of September of this 694

year in The Observer, Mr. McDonald says the following, he

says: "Another FRU agent and one-time IRA member known as

Kevin Fulton has claimed State agents involved in the

ambush killed the two police officers to prevent them being

handed over to a provisional interrogation unit with the

danger of them leaking the names of informants under

torture."

A. Absolutely not, sir. I did not -- that cannot be

attributed to me because I never said that.

Q. You never said that to him? 695

A. Absolutely not, no.

Q. When did you become aware of that claim? 696

A. I became aware about a month or two ago and then I thought

nothing of it, and then you are reading it there right out

of a paper. Absolutely not from me, sir.

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Q. And have you ever contacted Mr. McDonald to say to him, 697

"how dare you misquote me like that"?

A. No, I don't speak to Mr. McDonald.

Q. How do you think he would have got that information? 698

A. You would need to ask Mr. McDonald, sir, to get a proper

answer.

Q. He is a fairly recognised and respected journalist in The 699

Observer, isn't he?

A. He was fairly recognised, yeah. You would need to speak to

him yourself, sir.

Q. But you are saying that you didn't give any him information 700

about this?

A. Not -- I did not say anything like that, that they may have

been killed to prevent people from -- by British agents.

Absolutely not, sir.

Q. So that is something that -- 701

A. -- you will have to take up with Mr. McDonald.

Q. The Tribunal will have to take it up with Mr. McDonald. 702

When you were being interviewed by Mr. McDonald, or

assisting him with stories, how would that be done?

A. It was many years ago when I spoke to Henry McDonald.

Q. So when he says here on, in September of this year, that 703

this is your claim, this is --

A. Absolutely, I would not have been speaking to him in this

year, sir, because I haven't spoke to Henry for a long

time.

Q. When was the last time you spoke to him?704

A. He rang my number, actually, about six months ago, looking

for the number for Ian Hurst, and I told him I hadn't got

the number, but I rang Ian Hurst and Ian Hurst then rang

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him.

Q. Did you talk to him about the inquiries into the murders of 705

Breen and Buchanan?

A. No, sir, we were actually talking about the hacking, the

News of the World hacking, and an allegation of a certain

news editor from Northern Ireland being involved in

hacking.

Q. This, as far as you are concerned, is a piece of gutter 706

journalism?

A. Well, it is not my words, I can tell you that now. I mean,

I will never describe any journalist as "gutter

journalism". That is your words, sir. It is not correct.

Q. But you say it is completely misrepresenting what you said? 707

A. Absolutely, sir, yes.

Q. You also made allegations against a man called Sean 708

Maguire, the editor of The Belfast News?

A. Sean Maguire, yes.

Q. What did you say about him? 709

A. He is a registered informant and he was an IRA member as

well. He was living in Dundalk for a while at the time,

the same time as, around, Scappaticci, and all, had come to

Dundalk, yeah.

Q. And he has vehemently denied those allegations. 710

A. Yes. The first thing anyone is taught to do, anywhere,

even with the army or police agencies, you always deny,

because if you admit to the IRA that you are an agent, or

anything else, you are dead. Yes, sir. I mean, I was

abducted by the IRA, as well, and questioned, and I denied

that I was a police informant or agent on two occasions,

sir.

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Q. And the evidence you have and the evidence you have against 711

Mr. Maguire, is it as slim as the evidence --

A. Do you really want me to -- I will give you the evidence

here in open court if you want it.

Q. I don't represent him. 712

A. No, no, but if that is what you want.

Q. The question I am asking you, is the evidence that you have 713

against him as slim as the evidence you have against Owen

Corrigan?

A. It is not slim, no, sir, it is not slim. I have positive

evidence against Sean Maguire.

Q. But is it as slim as the evidence you have against Owen 714

Corrigan?

A. It is actually more compelling against Sean Maguire, yes.

Q. Surely, you are putting people like Mr. Maguire and people 715

who you name so readily, at risk?

A. Mr. Maguire put my photograph on a paper, so he did.

Q. And would it be fair to say, then, you wanted to get 716

revenge?

A. It is not to get revenge at him, no. But the thing is, my

handlers know exactly what Sean Maguire was doing, as well.

You know, I mean, you can take that up with the police

yourself.

Q. You mention there was one Garda in Dundalk that you 717

admired, isn't that so?

A. Not -- well, secretly admired him. He was very hard. It

is one I would trust. I mean, I had no dealings with him,

only when I was arrested he took my fingerprints.

Q. Tom Molloy? 718

A. Tom Molloy, yes, sir.

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Q. And you think he is a garda who was tough on the IRA? 719

A. I know he was tough on the IRA, yeah.

Q. Okay. I want to tell you what Tom Molloy said in evidence 720

about Owen Corrigan?

A. Okay.

Q. He said he "worked with Corrigan for nearly ten years." 721

This is on Day 16. He said, "This period was a very

difficult time for Gardaí in Dundalk." He said, "Nobody

arrested more IRA men than Corrigan." He said, "Corrigan

suffered a lot of abuse from the IRA, both on and off

duty." He said, "Corrigan was followed around by people

with cameras taking pictures of him and a photograph of him

was put on poles around Dundalk." He said he "doesn't

believe that the Gardaí or Corrigan colluded with the IRA."

Is Tom Molloy lying?

A. No, no, it is good street credibility for Owen Corrigan,

isn't it.

Q. Is the Chairman to take it, then, that Tom Molloy is 722

perjuring himself in order to give Corrigan street cred?

A. Absolutely not, sir. Tom Molloy would not have been aware,

and neither would many other guards have been aware, of

what Mr. Corrigan was at. I mean, Tom Molloy would have my

respect. I think I stated it to the Tribunal, if he had

still been a garda I would like him protecting me, although

I know he is retired, but that's just what I thought of

him, you know, as a trustworthy person as a guard.

Q. But as a trustworthy person, do you not attach some 723

relevance to the evidence that he has given about Owen

Corrigan?

A. Would Mr. Molloy know everything about Mr. Corrigan? I

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mean, top IRA men thought I was a great IRA person. A lot

of republicans in Newry and Belfast thought I was a great

IRA person.

Q. Mr. Keeley, I would ask you to be fair to Owen Corrigan --724

A. Oh, no, no -- yeah.

Q. -- for a moment of time, because the allegations you are 725

making against him are, I submit, lies?

A. No. Well, I am saying they are not lies, sir.

Q. But from his point of view, you have got to recognise that 726

the basis for your allegations are very slim --

A. Yeah.

Q. -- in respect of the murders of Breen and Buchanan. Do you 727

accept that?

A. All I know is what I know about Mr. Corrigan.

Q. Yeah. And all you know in respect of the murders of Breen 728

and Buchanan is that somebody told you, Mickey Collins told

you that "our friend" helped out, and you supposed that was

Owen Corrigan?

A. I take it that as Owen, yeah.

Q. Then you went to Judge Cory and you told him something 729

completely different, didn't you?

A. No, sir, I don't remember the statement, but it was the

same thing, it was about Owen Corrigan.

Q. Well, this Tribunal was set up on the recommendation of 730

Judge Cory, isn't that correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And he set it up because you put in a statement to him on 731

the 9th of September, 2003. And in that statement, you

say: "I am aware that after the ambush took place, my

senior IRA commander was told by a member of PIRA that

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Garda B had telephoned to the Provisional IRA to tell them

that officers Breen and Buchanan were at the Dundalk

station." And you accept that is incorrect?

A. What year was that?

Q. September 2003. 732

A. 2003, a long time, yeah.

Q. It is incorrect, though, isn't it? 733

A. No, but it is correct. I mean, it was my belief that he

did telephone them.

Q. You didn't say that to the Chairman in your evidence. Your 734

evidence is different, Mr. Keeley; your evidence is that

all that was said was "our friend" helped out?

A. Yeah.

Q. So are you saying that's correct? 735

A. I am saying the basis of that is correct, yes, sir.

Q. You didn't give that evidence here. One of them is 736

incorrect, isn't it? It is -- either your evidence here or

your statement?

A. Well, part of it is not in it, that I say to you all the

time, it is a long period of time between the two, sir, but

it basically means the same.

Q. I want to give you an opportunity, Mr. Keeley, to withdraw 737

the false statements and false claims you have made about

my client, Owen Corrigan. I would ask you to withdraw

them.

A. Absolutely not, sir. I can't.

Q. I want to suggest to you that the only reason you have made 738

these claims against my client is to ingratiate yourself to

certain parts of the political establishment in order to

assist you in your claim against your former employers?

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A. Oh, absolutely not, sir. That is not correct.

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Thanks, Mr. Keeley.

THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. DURACK AS FOLLOWS:

Q. MR. DURACK: Good afternoon, sir. My name is Michael 739

Durack, I appear for An Garda Síochána. I might ask you a

few questions. You told us that you joined the British

Army in 1978?

A. 1979.

Q. '79? 740

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you were approached then, very shortly after that, by 741

members involved in Intelligence?

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Q. And I think you mentioned a Gerry and Andy? 742

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Q. And I think they gave you opportunities to perhaps make the 743

army a little more exciting than you expected it to be?

A. Yes, sir. That would have been there, too, yeah.

Q. Because you didn't think the idea of marching around 744

squares or standing guard on buildings was up to much?

A. The way you make it sound, sir, it makes it sound really

monotonous. No, the thing is, the army was very exciting.

But the thing is, in Northern Ireland there was a war on.

When you learn your trade in the army, you know, you really

want to practice what you have learnt, and the only place

that the British Army had at that time was Northern

Ireland. So, you know, it did appeal to me. Even when I

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was based in St. Patrick's Barracks in Ballymena, we would

guard our own camp. We would also do ammunition runs. We

would -- you know, you got to do escort runs with

ammunition to Ballykinler, to Magilligan. It was quite

exciting, and there was an element of risk and danger

there, too, yes.

Q. Yes. And initially, you were providing them with fairly 745

basic information as to who you could pick out of

photographs?

A. Yes, sir. When it came to St. Patrick's Barracks they

actually came and asked would I help them put names to

faces. So when they actually came to the Education Centre,

they would bring a box of photographs and we would sit and

we'd have tea and we'd go through the names of people.

There was obvious -- there was a covert OP facing the DHSS,

the dole office in Newry, and because of a lot of

unemployment, it meant a lot of people in Newry would have

been visiting this building and - excuse me - they all

would have been photographed. So what they would get me to

do is, to -- they would go through the photographs - "Do

you know this person? Do you know that person?" A lot of

people, I wouldn't know, and some of the younger people I

would know because they were my age group, so I put their

names to the faces, and it didn't even matter if these

people weren't in paramilitary organisations, this was

basic intelligence-gathering, so they could, you know,

build up a profile of people in the town.

Q. How long did you do this sort of work for? 746

A. This went on for -- a few months I would have been doing

that.

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Q. And what were they paying you for this work? 747

A. They were paying me absolutely nothing for that, sir. I

was still in my basic training. And they would come every

now and again and visit the camp in Ballymena. We would do

this in the Education Centre. There was no extra money in

it.

Q. And how did the relationship develop? 748

A. In what way, like, did the relation develop? What way do

you want me to put that, like?

Q. Well, you were initially looking at photographs and little 749

else?

A. Yes.

Q. So what did you do? What was the next step up in your 750

intelligence education?

A. Well, basically, after that there, we would -- if I was on

leave for a weekend, they would take me to Newcastle, and

we would go to, maybe, Ballykinler, we would go onto the

range, sometimes we'd played pool, snooker. It was,

basically, like, it was like a chill-out thing, really --

Q. Sorry, go on. 751

A. You know, it was really just getting to know me and me

getting to know them. At that time, you see, I couldn't go

home to Newry on leave because of the troubles. When you

are in the depot, there is a lot of restrictions on you of

where you could go. If you were from Ballymena or

Coleraine, or anything, you could go home.

Q. So these were fun opportunities offered to you to -- 752

A. Not so much fun opportunities -- it was a way to chill out,

otherwise I would have stayed in the barracks all weekend

and just went into Ballymena, and there is not much there.

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Q. You mentioned you were given the opportunity to use weapons 753

that ordinary soldiers wouldn't be able to?

A. Yes, that opportunity did come along on a number of

occasions. We would go to [deleted]. It is like a private

firing range within Ballykinler, and it is not like an

ordinary firing range. There is different obstacles and

different thing there for training. So we would go there.

We would have, maybe, something to eat on a day's shooting

on the range, you know.

Q. And what was the next phase? 754

A. What do you mean "the next phase"?

Q. The next phase in your intelligence induction, if you like? 755

A. Well, basically, it went on from there, and then they asked

me would I leave the army and come and work for them. I

said no, because I had signed up for nine years. Signed up

for three initially and then I liked the army that much I

signed up for nine. So then, basically, asked me, you

know, could I get some people to help them, because I told

them I wanted to stay with my regiment which I was posted

to in Berlin. So, basically --

Q. How long did you stay in Berlin? 756

A. I spent over a year in Berlin.

Q. And what work was involved there? 757

A. In Berlin, there was a lot of guard duties with Spandau

Prison. We guarded Rudolf Hess. And we would have had a

thing called AK guard, which would be -- in Berlin when I

was there, the Berlin Wall was there, and you had the

Allied Forces. So, basically, the British contingent would

have been the Grenadier Guards, the Royal Irish Rangers and

some tank regiment, and you had the Intelligence Corps.

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Q. And what was your relationship with the Intelligence Corps 758

in Berlin for 12 months?

A. I had one person in the Intelligence Corps, three in

security, a guy called [deleted].

Q. And what were you doing with him? 759

A. Well, he would take up, roughly, where the people, Andy and

Gerry, would have left in Northern Ireland. We would go

through local newspapers that were sent over. He would

teach me things. Sorry, he would teach me things and we

would just keep things lit and keep it going from there.

Q. "Teach me things"; what was he teaching you? There is not 760

a lot of teaching in looking at photographs and identifying

people?

A. No, there is not, no, no.

MRS. LAVERTY: I think, Chairman, I think it is very

improper that counsel for the Garda are mentioning people

by name.

MR. DURACK: I didn't mention anybody; he mentioned them.

MRS. LAVERTY: Well, I don't think you should pursue it

further, the names of handlers.

MR. DURACK: I didn't mention anybody.

CHAIRMAN: Well, you invited him to give you the name.

MR. DURACK: No, I didn't. I invited him to tell me what

he was doing.

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A. The name slipped out, sir. Sorry.

CHAIRMAN: Well, don't name those people, if you wouldn't

mind.

A. Yes, yes.

Q. MR. DURACK: But I was asking you how your level of 761

training improved at this stage in Berlin?

A. It was -- basically, what you do is, it was all kept lit.

It was -- we were just chatting. We would go out for a

coffee, we would go through the papers. Again, it was

faces. They were trying to get me to come back to Northern

Ireland to work.

Q. You said you were being -- you were training? 762

A. I was being taught new skills, what to look for, yes. Do

you want me to tell you the training manual?

Q. No, I don't want to know the training manual. I want to 763

know the nature of what you were doing?

A. Well, I mean, looking at ways to get information, ways to

record it, things like that, yeah.

Q. And then, when you came back to Northern Ireland? 764

A. Yes. What do you mean, what did I do when I came back?

Q. Yes. 765

A. Well, actually I had to arrange -- they had arranged a

discharge for me, you know, from Berlin. It started from

there. And basically what they did was, they came up with

an excuse that they would give me a discharge book saying I

was basically kicked out.

Q. Basically that you were put out? 766

A. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, officially then they got me

another one where it said my father was sick. And we did

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it through there to keep the army happy. My platoon

commander's father, who was a Customs officer, I will not

name him her, but if you want the name I can give you that.

Q. No, no, I don't need that. In any case, you were demobbed 767

on the 26th of May, 1981?

A. If that's the date, yeah. I can't remember the dates. The

police have my discharge book; they took it when they

raided my property.

Q. And were you demobbed from Berlin or from Northern Ireland? 768

A. No, I was actually demobbed from Seaton camp in Chester.

The battalion moved back. You see, there was a move from

the battalion back to the UK, and we came back to Chester.

Q. Then you say in your statement that you were taken to a 769

hotel in the UK?

A. Yeah, in Wrexham.

Q. And what was the purpose of that? 770

A. That was another debriefing. Andy and Gerry met me there.

At that time, the colonel from FRU was from Wrexham. The

Force Research Unit was a new unit that was set up and the

colonel, he is dead now, he was killed in a helicopter

crash. He was from Wrexham. So we went to Wrexham and had

a meeting in, it was like a motel/hotel, you know, like the

wee chalet. I met him at Wrexham railway station at the

phone box and we drove to this motel/hotel type of thing,

yeah.

Q. And you said that you were debriefed there, how long did 771

that take?

A. About six, seven hours. It was just a chat up because I

had only come back to England from Berlin, the whole

regiment. So I went down this weekend one day. I don't

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remember the day.

Q. But you say you weren't doing much when you were away? 772

A. No.

Q. So there wasn't a lot to be debriefed on? 773

A. Well, it was a talk to catch up on things and talking. I

mean, there was always talk of things going on in Northern

Ireland, sir.

Q. But in any case, the arrangement had been made for you to 774

be discharged from the army with a view that you would

continue to work for the army, is that right?

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Q. And when did they start paying you? 775

A. They started paying me as soon as I was demobbed from my

battalion, from the regiment.

Q. And what were they paying you? 776

A. It was a basic army wage. I can't remember the exact

amount, sir, it is so long ago.

Q. I see. 777

A. But it worked out roughly a regular army wage of what I was

getting.

Q. And you went back to Newry and you went to live with your 778

parents at that stage?

A. I did, sir, yes.

Q. Now, how did you explain to your parents or to anybody else 779

how you had money to live on?

A. Because I started working in my father's shop as well, yes.

Q. And what was that? 780

A. It was a wallpapering and paint shop. My family were in

the decorating business and my father had a number of

wallpaper and paint shops in Newry. Our whole family, well

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most of the family were painters and decorators. So I went

back and started that as well. I worked a bit in the shop.

Q. How long did you stay there? 781

A. I can't remember exactly. I would have been in and out of

the shop. Then I got a job in the meat factory, which was

a very well -- it was well paid at that time. So I was

working there, still doing my army thing. I had to

ingratiate myself back into normal civilian life, sir.

Q. This would have been when? 782

A. After 1981.

Q. After 1981. So, you didn't work in your father's then for 783

very long?

A. No, sir. It is very hard sometimes to work for your own

people. And my father was a very nice gentleman, but

sometimes it was hard to work in your own father's shop.

Q. And I think you got married in 1984? 784

A. I didn't even remember the date I got married, sir. Thank

you very much for reminding me.

Q. Did you work continuously from 1981 to 1984 in the meat 785

factory?

A. I would have been on and off in the meat trade and doing

things, yeah. What actually I done was, I had to just

basically build myself into human life, sorry, civilian

life again around Newry. Most people I told I was in the

Merchant Navy, which I was because I was in the Merchant

Navy before I joined the army, so it was a cover. But,

again, my army handlers were saying when it came to the

time of going up to Dundalk, it was you have got to tell

them the truth here.

Q. Of course, because if you were found out that would be a 786

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bad idea?

A. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Q. Now -- so what are you living on at the time you get 787

married in 1984?

A. Well, I was still getting an army wage, but I was still

working away. I think I was still in the meat factory.

And I bought a house at that time as well.

Q. And how did you finance that? 788

A. A mortgage, like everybody else, sir. I was -- actually I

will I tell you where it was, it was Lisdrum Avenue; it was

a new semi-detached chalet-type bungalow.

Q. As I understood it, you had worked for a very short while 789

for your father?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then you had worked for maybe a couple of years for the 790

meat factory?

A. Yes.

Q. And that accounts for 1981 to maybe 1983/'84? 791

A. I can't remember the exact dates, sir. I never -- dates

are not a strong point with me.

Q. You then get married. What are you living on then when you 792

get married, because presumably the meat factory job was

over at that stage?

A. Well, my wife worked as well at that time.

Q. I suppose what I am wondering is, what cover did you have 793

so that people who were inquisitive would know that you had

a source of income that wasn't the army?

A. A lot of people would wrongfully assume that my family had

a lot of money, and I suppose it is a case of like the

early riser -- the name of an early riser, you can stay in

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bed all day. You know, at times I didn't have that much

money but people thought we would have had because of the

family business, people maybe assumed you are wealthy.

Q. Were you on the dole for a certain amount of this? 794

A. I think at one time I did sign on the dole, but it was a

very, very short period of time, very short.

Q. In any case, in February 1985 you got involved in the 795

hijacking of the lorry full of televisions?

A. Yes, sir, Mitsubishi Blue Diamonds, TVs and videos, yes,

sir. And that was to try --

Q. Sorry, go on. 796

A. Go ahead.

Q. I think as a result of that, you were sentenced to two 797

years imprisonment on the 9th of the December, 1985?

A. Yes, I didn't remember the year, but yes, sir, I did. And

when I actually was in jail, that was the year the space

shuttle exploded. You remember one of the space shuttles

was launched and it exploded.

CHAIRMAN: Oh, yes.

A. I was actually in jail at that time, yes.

Q. MR. DURACK: And prior to that, in April of 1985, 798

Mr. 'Mooch' Blair had been released from prison?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you know him between April and the time of your own 799

incarceration?

A. I did, sir, yes. Because, actually, at that time he knew

that we had hijacked the lorry and that we would have been

going to jail. At that time in Northern Ireland the jails

were really run by a lot of the paramilitaries. And the

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thing is, the stuff from the lorry would have been going,

part of it, to the IRA. So basically he had assured us

that there would be no problem. If we went to jail, you

know, you wouldn't be beat up by anybody, you would be

accepted onto the wing by the paramilitaries, because they

run it. And people that they don't like or don't accept

usually get a hard time, they kick them on to and they go

to the punish wings, wrongfully you'd be sent there.

Q. In any event, you were assured that you would be taken care 800

of?

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Q. And all this time were you being paid? 801

A. When I was in prison I wasn't being paid because I couldn't

meet handlers. But I remember at the time when I was in

prison and after you do, I think it is two-thirds of your

sentence, I was entitled to something like a week or two

weeks parole for, you know, good behaviour. I remember at

that time I came out, and it was on a Saturday. That's the

day the policemen were murdered in Newry, three policemen

were shot dead, they were murdered by the Provisional IRA

in Hill Street in Newry. And I remember that day very well

because I was actually painting the outside of my new

house. And my mother came up and says, "Don't go down

town." I says, "Why?" She says, "There has been

shootings." I didn't know at that stage 'Mooch' had done

that one either, but you know...

Q. Well, were you in a position to give your handlers any 802

information in relation to that shooting?

A. No, sir, because at that stage I was only out for, I think

it could have been a week, and I didn't go up to Dundalk, I

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stayed at home. I wasn't that long married so I stayed at

home with my then wife and I painted the house, yeah.

Q. And ultimately you were released from prison in November 803

1986?

A. Right, I couldn't remember the year, sir. I did 12 months

in jail.

Q. And I think you said that you were paid a lump sum at that 804

stage?

A. Yes, sir, I got a lump sum of money.

Q. And how much was that? 805

A. I can't remember, sir, but I know it was a fair piece of

money.

Q. Are we talking about a couple of thousand; 5,000, 10,000? 806

A. Sir, I can't remember. Maybe one or two thousand. You

know, at that time it was big money, it was big money to

me.

Q. Now, in your statement you say that it was at this stage 807

that you learnt of Mr. Corrigan?

A. Right.

Q. That would appear to be after November 1986? 808

A. Again, sir, the dates... I am hopeless with dates, sir.

Q. And that you had learnt that from Mr. Blair? 809

A. Yeah.

Q. Now, can you tell us -- it was at this stage you say you 810

learnt about it. What did you learn about him at that

stage?

A. At that stage I was going up and down to Dundalk to 'Mooch'

Blair. I was basically getting in with him again, and it's

just a case of where we're talking about Narrow Water,

different things. I mean, when you are hanging about with

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IRA people you talk about lots of things. And the chat,

'Mooch' Blair is actually a very talkative person so he is.

Q. Now, you told us that you had been taught how to drive by 811

your handlers?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you said you were given a car? 812

A. I was given the money and I bought a car, yes. It was a

Ford Escort, and I think it was maroon in colour. It was a

two-door. It was second-hand.

Q. Again, are you able to waive suspicion away from your 813

ownership of the car?

A. Very easy. I was told to take out a loan, which I did,

with Newry Credit Union.

Q. You took out a loan?814

A. Yeah, I didn't need the loan, I already had the cash. What

you do is, you are taught to take out a loan. If anyone

asks you, you can show your bill, your credit union, so you

are in debt. One thing that the army always teach you,

well the Security Services as well is, they don't give you

so much money, they will give you X amount of money and you

have cash in your hand. And again, I was told I had a

secret account with a lot of money in it, which of course I

believed. And that is quite normal because the thing is,

the first thing the IRA look for is someone flashing a lot

of money, as this gentleman is saying, with no immediate

means of income. So what they do usually tell you, they

will hold a lot of cash for you, they will give you X

amount. And if you are getting something they will give

you cash for it and they will tell you go and take a loan

for that amount. So, again, for the hip roof on my house

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where I used to live on Point Road, I needed £5,000. So -

excuse me - we got a loan for £5,000 but they gave it to me

out of my cash. So if anyone asked you were still able to

show the debt. And that's usually some of things that the

IRA would see, you know, like if you were in trouble.

Q. Sorry -- 815

A. Sorry, go ahead.

Q. Yes. Now, you said anyway you got a car? 816

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you had an Escort? 817

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you tell your handlers about that? 818

A. Yes, they knew about it, sir. Because at that time I was

driving -- they'd got me to drive around the roads in south

Armagh on a prearranged route, and basically they'd put a

flick switch in it that I would drive a route at a certain

time and that they were hoping that the IRA would have a

road check and stop me, and if they did, I would just flick

the switch and just, if the IRA would let me go, I'd go on,

but then they'd be waiting in Bessbrook and they would come

up in a gun ship.

Q. And they would send out the helicopter for you if you were 819

stuck?

A. Not for me, no. They would go and do the business just on

the IRA.

Q. And I take it there was some form of tracking involved in 820

the vehicle?

A. There may have been, yes. But what there would have been,

it would have gave a signal and they would have known what

route I was on. So all you do is, with the choppers go

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over the route. From a helicopter you can get a queer view

of south Armagh. Once you know the immediate area that

your car is on, they really would have no problem.

Q. Was it at this stage you were starting to drive Mr. Blair 821

around?

A. I would have been driving around him and I would have been

associating with a Sinn Fein counsellor in Newry. I will

not say his name. That's the people -- I would just

ingratiate myself.

Q. And was the car fixed up to record what was going on? 822

A. That one there wasn't, no. Many years later I got a car

from MI5 and it had satellite tracking in it, it had

recording devices inside it as well. And this car, I was

actually told by MI5 to lend it to the people in Dundalk,

which I did. So I would lend IRA members this car. It was

a Peugeot 405.

Q. When was this? 823

A. Oh, this was in the '90s.

Q. About when? 824

A. Oh, let's see. After I came back from Eurodisney, it would

have been then. They got me a car. At the start they were

actually hiring cars for me, and it would have been costing

maybe -- it was costing thousands of pounds, you know, to

hire cars.

Q. Yes. 825

A. So then they decided -- they got a car for me. They gave

me the cash to buy it. I think it was £10,000 in cash to

go to -- it was a place just outside London. They had a

garage there. They set up a garage, someone in a garage to

sell me this car. It was a guy called Bob, the same as my

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handler, just the same name. And it was -- I had to go to

him and say, you know, about the car. He was expecting me.

And I gave him the money. And I remember when I was coming

over to London with the cash, I actually took my

brother-in-law with me because he was a mechanic, because

it would have looked funny with my family not to take

someone that knew about cars, because I knew nothing about

them. So coming through Heathrow I was stopped by the

police at Heathrow Airport, and of course I had £10,000 in

cash. And they stopped me. And at that stage I would have

come up as a red light, which would have been stop; I would

have been classed as a IRA member. So they were quizzing

me what is this money for, what's this for? And I just had

to sit there and go through it. I was just saying to them,

"I'm going to buy a car, I'm going to buy a car," you know.

Which I was. And in the end they let me go. And I

remember actually I rang MI5, who were really the overall

handlers at this stage, and they said: No, we knew about

it, but we did nothing, we just let it run. Which is quite

normal for the security forces to do or the police service

to do.

Q. When did you become -- we have suddenly moved into MI5. I 826

was just dealing with the military?

A. Sorry, sir.

Q. When did that change happen? 827

A. MI5 would have been -- just after I came back from

Eurodisney, they took over everything.

Q. And that was when? 828

A. I can't remember the exact dates, sir. I am really, really

hopeless with dates. But when I came back from Eurodisney

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--

Q. There was some suggestion that was maybe summer 1991? 829

A. -- I contacted army HQ, the intelligence section. And I

was told to call back the next day. So when I called back

the next day and these people from British intelligence

said we are now going to meet you as well. So a meeting

was actually set up for me to fly to London. I think it

was left at Aldergrove Airport, British Airways. And I

flew to London Heathrow. And I got off at Acton Town. And

my instructions was to get off at Acton Town. I was

carrying a Daily Mirror. And go down -- there is two or

three exits. So I was told to go down the concrete step

exits. So I went down those exits and there was a guy

waiting for me and we met and we shook hands. Then we got

into a car and we went back out towards Heathrow Airport to

one of the airport hotels. And there was MI5, there was

army, and there was -- there was Northern Ireland people

there, and they may have been police, I don't know. But

there was army people there, there was MI5 people there.

Q. Were there also RUC people there? 830

A. There may have been, I don't know.

Q. How many people were there? 831

A. There could have been about five or six people. And they

had set up an 0800 number for me, you know to ring. So

basically if you ring an 0800 number from your house it

doesn't come up on your phone bill, so it means then there

is no suspicion of anybody coming in to your house to see

who you are calling, the number doesn't show up. I think

one of the companies that they set up as a cover was

[deleted]. I don't know if that was ever a company.

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Sorry, sir.

Q. Sorry, go on. 832

A. So they set this up. This is what they do with the agents,

they set up a cover. So if anyone then questions your

background or anything, there is a history. And this was

[deleted]. And the 0800 number, when it worked, you would

ring it up and a lady would usually answer [deleted]. I

presume that is maybe a switchboard somewhere and then she

would put you through to your handlers, you know. They

would ask you who it is. At that stage, when I worked

solely for the army, my cover name was Kevin. That was it.

There was nothing else. And with these people they wanted

me to pick a new name, so I picked Joe for Bob. So it was

a phrase, not just one word, it was Joe for Bob.

Q. Now, if I could just take you back a little bit. 833

A. Sorry, sir, yes.

Q. You were still working for the army when you were driving 834

Mr. Blair?

A. I would have, sir.

Q. At the time of the murders we are concerned with? 835

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you had heard prior to those murders and sometime in 836

the mid-to-late eighties that Mr. Corrigan was friendly

with the IRA?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And providing them with information? 837

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you advise your handlers of that? 838

A. I would have said it, sir, yes.

Q. Sorry? 839

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A. I would have said it to them, yes, sir.

Q. Well, you would have or you did? 840

A. I did say it to them, yeah.

Q. And how often do you think you said it to them during the 841

course of that period?

A. Well, usually you would only give it the once because they

would have a record of it, sir. It is not something you

would keep repeating every week.

Q. Clearly it was a very important piece of information. Did 842

they ask you to find out some more?

A. No, sir. You see, to yo this is a very important piece of

information, and I don't mean to demean it or to make it

any less, but I mean there is other things that happen. I

mean, to me if someone was shot - it is a very hard thing

to say - if someone was shot dead, all right they are shot

dead, it's gone and you move on. With a lot of handlers it

was the exact same. It sounds very cold to a lot of

people. The army were not policemen.

Q. We have heard various people who specialised in 843

intelligence and in handling informants, and they have told

us that once you get a piece of intelligence, the thing you

really want to do is to task the provider of the

intelligence --

A. To find out more.

Q. -- with the task of going back and finding out more about 844

it, if they can?

A. If they can, yes. My whole thing was, the whole rule I was

told to pursue, and that is what I did, don't ask

questions. In the IRA -- I mean people have always, even

up to not too long ago people say: Is there any

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photographs of you and 'Mooch' together? No, there is not.

I remember one time we went to Bob Hardy, he'd came out of

prison, out of Portlaoise. There was a do on in the

Riverside Inn, which was actually just out on the

Louth/south Armagh border. Someone took a camera out and

took a photograph. They were nearly eaten. Just, you

didn't produce a camera. You didn't produce recorders,

nothing. I mean there is no photographs of me, 'Mooch',

Bob Hardy, any of them. None of us together. There is no

photos. The last thing you would have done is take photos

or even took a camera out. So, you know, the secret -- the

whole thing I was taught was: Do not ask questions. And

when I look back over the years, that has really worked,

because if you did ask questions, straightaway people

started asking -- sorry, sir.

Q. And you were arrested then three months later in June of 845

1989?

A. Right.

Q. When you were interrogated at that stage, did you -- were 846

you asked anything about your knowledge of Mr. Corrigan or

were you asked anything about the Breen/Buchanan murders?

A. Well, when I was arrested in Dundalk?

Q. Yes. 847

A. No, sir, I can't even remember what they asked me because I

wouldn't answer them. The standard procedure with IRA

volunteers is, if you are arrested you just don't answer.

So, it is a case of -- I mean I think if you ask any

policeman who interrogates people from the IRA, they will

tell you usually they just sit and look at a point on the

wall and you don't talk.

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Q. And in the course of that arrest, you say that Mr. Corrigan 848

was in the room but not asking questions?

A. Yes, he came into the room. He did definitely come into

the room. I have already stated to Mr. Corrigan's

solicitor, yes.

Q. Yes. Now, you told us that it was around this time as well 849

that you were in fact or was it in the late-eighties that

yourself and 'Mooch' and others were making bombs?

A. In the Republic of Ireland, yes, sir, we made bombs. We

experimented with new types of incendiary devices, new

mixes in fertilizer and things like that. And we also then

started working on flash units, we called it the 'Eye'.

Q. Now, did you advise your handlers of that? 850

A. Yes, sir. And at the stage just before the murder of

police officer Colleen McMurray - and I will state now on

the record I had nothing to do with that murder - I had

already told my handlers of the development of a new firing

mechanism by the Provisional IRA in Dundalk. We called it

the 'Eye'. It was a photolight sensitive switch. And what

it actually does is, if there is a certain frequency of

light, it triggers. It is just like pressing a button; it

will detonate the bomb or rocket, whatever you fire it

with.

Q. Can I take you back to the question I was asking you. Did 851

you tell them about the various locations in the Republic

where you say these matters, these things were being made?

A. Yes, sir, I did.

Q. And did you provide them with details of where they were 852

being made?

A. Yes, sir, and sometime -- one time I actually went with

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Magellan GPS, this is a satellite -- this is way before

civilians had them. I went into the Cooley Mountains, sir.

And I think at that stage my handlers gave that to the

garda. There was a tonne of explosives found in that

bunker.

Q. Where was that? 853

A. This was in the Cooley Mountains.

Q. When do you think that was? 854

A. Again, the date I can't remember. Listen, the garda people

should be able to find it very quick. It was just above

Omeath. It was a bunker in a forest. There was a long

drive up to it. This bunker was built by Blair, myself and

a few other people. Man G in the cipher as well. We dug

it out. And there was another guy, there is another guy,

we'll just call him Belfast Sean. I didn't know his

surname, but he was living in Dundalk at the time.

Q. Did you -- 855

A. Sorry, sir.

Q. Did you tell your handlers of the specific location in 856

Omeath that was raided on the 28th of August, 1989?

A. No, I hadn't got round to that, but somebody else had told

them, sir.

Q. And how long had you been using it without having told 857

them?

A. When I went down to that Omeath, with that guards in Omeath

I was only down in it once or twice. Sometimes you used a

place, you might use it once and not use it for a year.

Sometimes you moved somewhere else. But Omeath was a very

prominent point for kicking off because it was very close

to the border with Newry. It was a rural area, and there

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only was only one garda station with very few guards.

Sorry, sir.

Q. Are you prepared to accept at this stage that Mr. Corrigan 858

had nothing to do with that, that find?

A. Well, again, I was told that Mr. Corrigan had cleaned up,

"our friend". And I took "our friend" to be Mr. Corrigan.

Q. And that in fact there are still extant the various samples 859

that were taken --

A. From that, is there?

Q. -- from that place? 860

A. Well, we were told it was safe to come back, that there was

no fingerprints. And the thing is, nobody was arrested.

Q. Including overalls, clothing, gloves. 861

A. Is there fingerprints?

Q. And including some prints which were not identified? 862

A. Well, there you go.

Q. It wasn't a case that they had been cleaned up? 863

A. Well, that is what we took -- I mean, we would not have

that information, sir. I did not have that information. I

am not a police officer.

Q. Of course. I take it you knew that the man who was charged 864

and convicted in relation to it, Mr. Parker?

A. I didn't actually know him. There would be no reason for

me to know him, sir.

Q. But you would have known that he was prosecuted, 865

presumably?

A. I knew a long time after the incident, yes, he was. The

old man was actually done. There was him and his

granddaughter, I think, were staying at the house. But I

mean, when the team went down they would have no contact

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with the bombers, nothing.

Q. Well, would this not have been a matter that concerned you, 866

that this raid had occurred?

A. Why would --

Q. And clearly somebody had provided information in relation 867

to it?

A. No, sir, it happens all the time. I mean, in Newry

different things -- some of my information was

cross-referenced by -- I mean I was working as an agent

within a unit, and it was quite clear there was one, maybe

two more people within that unit that were also providing

the information that I was providing, sir.

Q. Did this not concern you? 868

A. Would it concern me, sir?

Q. Because you told us that you were, maybe not at this stage, 869

but that you were in the Internal Security Unit?

A. Yeah.

Q. Is that not what internal security units are supposed to be 870

finding out?

A. Internal security, sir, all that my job was to do usually

was to get the van, to get the groceries, go with the

arresting party, drive it and lift the person and give it

in. I didn't question suspects or anybody else. And you

have got to remember, sir, I was looking after myself

because I knew what I was doing.

Q. I take it that you had to, from what I understand from what 871

you have said, from any time you went on any of these

arrest missions, as you describe them, that you had to hire

a van for the purpose?

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

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Q. And did you tell your handlers of that? 872

A. My handlers knew where I was getting the vans. What

actually happened at the garage, it was a filling station

out near Hilltown in a country area. I remember one day I

went out for a car, just to hire a car. And the owner of

the thing says the army landed in a helicopter and they all

came in and took every registration and all, you know, the

mileage details of every vehicle. He started getting to

worry at that stage. We were hiring cars pretty often.

Q. And your handlers knew where they were coming from? 873

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you assume that they had some sort of a tracking 874

mechanism, recording mechanism?

A. I have no idea, sir. I mean, your handlers don't tell you

everything that they are doing. Sometimes my handlers

would say, oh, nothing is going to happen here, and all of

a sudden something did happen. Now, I don't blame my

handlers for that. There is people further up the chain

make the decision. But on some occasions when these things

happened it really, really put the agent's life in extreme

danger, you know.

Q. Now, we are told, it appears, that you were -- MI5 arrived 875

on the scene in when, did you say?

A. Oh, after I came back from Eurodisney, sir.

Q. In the early '90s? 876

A. That is correct.

Q. At that stage you were working for both the army and MI5? 877

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, it appears from the information that Mr. Flanagan gave 878

out that you were working for the Special Branch as well in

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the early '90s?

A. Well, sir, I actually never worked for Special Branch. I

was being paid and handled by MI5 and one army personnel

member. As things were actually happening, this was after

even the murder of Colleen McMurray with this new rocket

device. I mean, my handlers were told that 'Mooch' had

built this device. They got me to go to London to build it

again, the firing mechanism, and basically when we came

back, say at teatime, that evening the murder actually

happened. So, it was a case, you know... What actually did

happen then, which was very worrying, the next evening the

Belfast Telegraph ran a story and it actually had a

photograph of the 'Eye' trigger device in it, which it

really panicked me, because very few people knew about

that. It was only the unit in Dundalk and south Armagh

would have known about that flash unit.

Q. You were, according to Ronnie Flanagan, an informant for 879

Special Branch from '92 to '94?

A. Well, sir, if I was an informant for Special Branch they

certainly didn't tell me. The thing is, everybody was

quite aware of my opinion of Special Branch. And Special

Branch are different from CID, they are a different type of

people.

Q. I appreciate that. 880

A. Pardon, sir?

Q. I said I appreciate that. 881

A. Yes, sir.

Q. However, it emerged, he says, that you were becoming 882

increasingly unreliable and deliberately fabricating

information?

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A. Yes, sir, he said that, but he also said I was a fantasist

and Walter Mitty, and we find out later on he apologised to

my handler for that. He was given wrong information by

people from Special Branch in Newry.

Q. I think you admitted that you had been deliberately 883

misleading people to the Stevens Inquiry?

A. Of course I did. My handlers were setting me up to be

murdered, really playing hard and fast with my life. I

mean, it is okay for people in a police station telling you

what is this and that. You talk to someone who is actually

out on the street doing the business, it's a different type

of life. The thing is, you know that you are running the

risk that if you get caught you will be murdered. The

thing is, when somebody else is playing very -- doing crazy

things with your life, it is actually a different thing.

Q. Just to take you back -- 884

A. Sorry, sir.

Q. -- to take you back to 1989, at Fintan Callan's Ceili 885

House. You were driving a vehicle that presumably your

handlers knew about?

A. I think they would have. Everybody would have known, even

the regular police would know what I was driving, yes, sir.

Q. And they would know who you were driving? 886

A. Everybody -- well, yeah, everybody knew who I was driving

about, but here, when I come here, nobody realised the

association with me and Blair. It was well-known that I

was 'Mooch' Blair's friend and I always drive him

everywhere, as he didn't drive, sir.

Q. And wasn't it reasonable to suppose from your point of view 887

that there was some form of tracking mechanism and some

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form of recording mechanism in that car?

A. No, sir. Why would there be? If there was, I didn't know

about it. And why would I take it automatically that there

would be? That is not always the case. I have been on

jobs where my handlers have told me under no circumstances

do you record anything. I mean, I have been to jobs even

where I got involved with people with the IRA and the

Mafia. And I came to England to meet the guy. And the

first thing the guy did was, he took us to a club in

Kentish Town Road called Rio's, and it was a health club.

And the first thing he did, he says is, "Everbody naked and

in swim." There was to way to carry -- I mean this is the

type of people -- you are dealing with paranoid people

straightaway. They are not like ordinary, well ordinary

criminals nowadays might be like that, but back then the

paramilitaries were really paranoid. I mean, even when I

had the car that MI5 gave me there was a recording device

in it. I was actually told never record anyone when they

are in the car. That device had a specific purpose and

that was to drive around the streets, I would flick a

switch under the driver's column and I would call out the

registrations and makes of cars outside people's houses.

And my explicit instruction was never use it to record

conversations because you would get the dead man's click,

you know if the tape -- in them days it was a tape, an

audio tape. And the recorder was secreted in behind the

ashtray. It was very, very expertly done.

Q. But to take you back to Fintan Callan's Ceili House. 888

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You got there, Mr. Blair got out of the car, isn't that 889

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right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And he went into it and came back out, you say, with 890

Mr. O'Callaghan?

A. He came out in front with Mr. Corrigan, yes.

Q. Or Mr. Corrigan, sorry. 891

A. Yes.

Q. Now, you have told us that the terrorist organisations were 892

paranoid?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, isn't it, therefore, absolutely unbelievable that893

Mr. Corrigan would get into the car to give him the

information about Mr. Oliver, rather than give it to him as

he was standing outside and out of your earshot?

A. Well, sir, you would have to ask them that. I mean, that

is what happened; he got into the car. I mean, I have been

to meetings with 'Mooch' Blair and other people, and the

fact that you are with those certain people, people will

talk because they will automatically take it that you are

one of those people and trusted, you know. You know, of

course it would be logical if he had of said it in the pub

or in the toilet, but that's not the way it happened. They

came out into the car. So I can't change that, sir.

Q. I have to suggest to you that is absolutely unbelievable, 894

that in front of somebody whom he did not know, that he

would say anything as sensitive as naming Mr. Oliver?

A. Well, sir, all I can say is that is the way it did happen.

You know, you think it would be logical for any policeman

not to talk about anything to anybody, never mind that just

that one there.

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Q. You then went on to work for -- sorry, you were involved in 895

1994, I think, was the question, with the intended attack

on the senior policeman?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that resulted in you being in Castlerea for a number of 896

days being interrogated?

A. Yes, that was an attack on Chief Superintendent --

Q. You are not to mention his name. 897

A. It is public knowledge, sir. It has already been in

newspapers, been on TV. It's a very famous, well infamous

attack where everybody was caught.

Q. What -- 898

A. Sorry, sir.

Q. What made you take the phone out in your wife's name? 899

A. At that time those people in Belfast, the guy is dead, it

was Jerry Badley, Bradley, sorry, he is DHQ staff. And

they were doing a job and he says "We need a basher." A

basher is a phone.

Q. You have told us about what a basher is. 900

A. Oh, sorry, sir, I was just going to explain.

Q. You have told us what that was. What made you get a phone 901

in your wife's name?

A. The thing is, they needed it very quickly, and I could not

purchase a basher. I would have to come to London to

purchase a basher, because anyone that had a basher would

keep it, because it's free telephone calls. So the thing

is, they needed it quickly. So my handler says get one on

contract. So they said they would pay the bill. So I had

no problem, I absolutely believed them.

Q. For what possible reason would you get one on contract? 902

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Wasn't clearly the thing to do to get one that was a

pay-as-you-go, that nobody would know what you did with it?

A. In those days pay-as-you-go did not exist.

Q. I think it existed before contract? 903

A. Well, not that I knew of, sir. When you went to Vodack

Northern Ireland or Vodafone you had to take a contract.

Q. Because it certainly meant that the phones could be 904

listened to?

A. Yes, sir, I know that.

Q. Monitored? 905

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And therefore easily traced back to your wife, which left 906

yourself in a position where you were going to be a

suspect?

A. No, sir, it doesn't always work that way. Yes, I give the

phone to MI5 knowing that it would be monitored. The bill

would be paid. I have been on jobs where MI5 and my

handlers let things run for intelligence-gathering, no

action is taken. You know, they used to have a great

saying: Bricks and mortar can be replaced, human life

can't. At times agents were allowed to plant bombs that

blew up buildings and broke windows, and it'd give them

great credibility. If every device or every job that an

agent was going on was compromised, the roads would be

littered every weekend with dead people.

Q. But isn't that what you were doing, you were compromising 907

it by getting it in your wife's name?

A. No, sir, I wasn't compromising it, because the simple

reason is my handlers told me to get it. Usually when my

handlers said they would cover something, trust me, these

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people, they did what they said, and if they said nothing

is going to happen, trust me, nothing would happen. My

handlers -- you know, allegedly I have done lots of things

with the knowledge of my handlers. I have never been

brought to book. I wasn't even arrested, sir. But yet,

since all this has all stopped now, there is police

investigations. The Ombudsman has done her investigations

and found that my handlers never did things by the book.

And again -- sorry, sir.

Q. To take you back to the incident, Mr. Callan's Ceili House. 908

I take it you reported that to your handlers?

A. I would have said that yes, sir. To me -- I know to yous

it sounds such an astonishing thing. Sir, we were doing

things every day and nothing -- I know it may be very hard

to believe, but nothing surprised me, nothing shocked me.

You know, sometimes I had a very cold way of looking at

things.

Q. We were discussing it before, yesterday I think, that you 909

were saying that there were little bits of information

because little bits of information --

A. Make a big picture.

Q. -- make up a jigsaw?910

A. Absolutely, sir. It is not up to one agent to make the

whole jigsaw.

Q. Yes. But clearly, it was important (A), that911

Mr. O'Callaghan was giving information and --

A. Mr. Corrigan.

Q. Apologies, Mr. O'Callaghan. That Mr. Corrigan was giving 912

information?

A. Yes.

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Q. It was equally very important that you -- that Mr. Blair 913

had said in your presence that he was going to kill him?

A. Yeah, but Mr. Blair had threatened to kill people, and did

kill people on a regular basis, sir.

Q. But aren't they two very important pieces of information 914

that you could have passed on?

A. I would have said it certainly, sir. It is the same when

they wanted to shoot the cleaner.

Q. And at this stage how -- 915

A. Go on.

Q. At this stage how often were you meeting your handlers? 916

A. Sometimes once, twice a week, sometimes once a month, and

then as things get bigger and going, I would meet them

maybe three, four times a week, if there is major, major

developments.

Q. And you had a phone call that you could ring them on, a 917

phone number?

A. Usually, yes, sir.

Q. So that it was the easiest thing in the world to advise 918

them of these two very important pieces of information; one

that a man was going to be killed and two --

A. No, sir, you are saying there, one, that a man was going to

be killed. The man has to admit that he's an informant.

And he was not killed on the first abduction, sir.

Q. Sorry, you told us that he did not admit on the first 919

abduction, you say there were two?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, then why, if you say he was going to be released if 920

he didn't admit it, was he rearrested?

A. I wasn't here when he was rearrested. I know the other

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gentleman beside you thinks I was part of the murder team

that killed Tom Oliver. That is not the case.

Q. Doesn't it directly contradict what you said was the 921

policy; that if you didn't admit it you were let go and if

you did admit it you were executed?

A. Oh, you were down a hole, yeah, yeah. But the thing is, I

was not there the second time when he was killed. So I

don't know if he admitted it or not, of what he had done.

I have heard many stories since and they have been in the

media, that he was taped. I don't know, I wasn't there.

Q. But it contradicts what you say was your theory? 922

A. What does?

Q. Of what was supposed to happen? 923

A. No, usually if a person is giving information, you are

usually abducted -- you're usually arrested, that's the

term the IRA use. They will arrest you and question you.

Sir, I have been where many a men, a variety of volunteers

living elsewhere have been arrested and released, that

nothing has happened to them. That's not to say they were

an informant at the start, but they were suspected. On a

number of occasions I was questioned by the Internal

Security Unit myself, you know. But the thing is, I was

passing information, but was able to bluff it out because I

never admitted it and it was believed, you know. But on

the last occasion after the Derek Martindale thing, you

know it wasn't believed, you know. It had gone too far and

I was going to be murdered.

Q. And I think then you started acting for the Customs at that 924

stage?

A. Yes, sir. At that stage I had a big fallouts with my

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handlers over the Derek Martindale stuff. I mean I was

really put in a bad position over that there, my life was

in danger.

Q. So who were you now working for in total? 925

A. I am not working for anyone now, sir.

Q. No, sorry, at this stage? 926

A. At that stage I only worked for Customs. I passed them on

information that MI5 never acted on. Again, I think I have

told you, sir, MI5 and Special Branch have a different way

of operating from CID or Customs. And basically what

actually was happening was, the people I was giving them

the information on would have been hardened terrorists and

usually what you found, sometimes people did get arrested

and were arrested on the job and done for it in the courts.

Other times my brief would be is to find out people, what

were their weaknesses is, what the problems is in their

home. And I would pass that information on to my MI5

handlers. MI5, in a way they operate differently from

Special Branch and from army and -- sorry, sir.

Q. Can I just take you to the question I was asking you about? 927

A. Sorry, sir.

Q. At the time did you start working or giving information to 928

the Customs?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you still being paid by the military and MI5? 929

A. No, sir, no, that relationship had ended. I finished

living on bad blood. Working as an agent and informant is

very stressful. And the thing is, especially when it is

with paramilitaries because you are guaranteed you are

going to close a road if you are caught; you are going to

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be murdered.

Q. So you were then without a source of cash income? 930

A. Yes, sir.

Q. So you started working for the Customs? 931

A. Yeah, but hold on a minute, this is what everybody says and

a lot of yous are getting it wrong. With CID and Customs

you don't get a wage; you are paid on a result. So the

thing is, any money I had saved up, if I am doing an

operation with them, usually I would pay for everything

myself. So, if I had to go to France or to anywhere, I

would pay that myself. And at the end of the day if we you

do get a result, then I get my money for my operation.

Customs employed me on a basis for actual

intelligence-gathering. And the thing was, I knew the

people in south Armagh, I knew the people in different

areas that were doing the smuggling. That was sometimes

drugs, cigarettes, tobacco. There was VAT scams. It was

all connected with the paramilitaries, but criminal

activities as well. The thing is; I knew a lot of the

people involved in it and it was very easy then to take

them out. Even though I wasn't in the IRA anymore, I was

able to use that information that I had gleaned while I had

been a member of the IRA and people I had met. And I

targeted these people with Customs and other people.

Because it was quite clear MI5 and Special Branch were not

arresting them. And again, you know, they operate totally

different than CID, you know. Sorry, sir.

Q. Sorry. Just for a period then you were working only for 932

the Customs and getting paid as you went along?

A. Sometimes I didn't even get paid. Sometimes we just got

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the information on the people and the Customs handler I had

was a really nice man, and again, this is not the army-type

or MI5, this is an intelligence officer with Customs and

Excise. And the information we were getting, it was

actually good, because we were catching bad guys.

Q. And you were doing this out of the goodness of your heart? 933

A. Sir, sometimes it became a labour of love. You might find

that hard to believe. But it is actually -- ask some of

your policemen colleagues, maybe, or friends, they will

tell you, when they catch bad guys it is a good buzz. When

you save people's lives, even working as an agent or and

informant, it is good. The feeling is bad, but it is

scarey if the thing goes wrong and they start suspecting

you. That is the way everybody goes. It is a good feeling

when you save a life. It's not good when something bad

happens or when someone gets hurt or murdered, but you have

to live with it and you get on. And that is the way -- I

mean, we can all run Special Branch down. There was good

people in Special Branch and there was bad. There was good

times and bad times with Special Branch, with army and MI5.

Q. And then you -- 934

A. Sorry, sir.

Q. -- then you went on to Witness 71, who gave evidence. You 935

rang him up sometime in August 1997 and offered him

information on drugs and general crime?

A. In what year?

Q. 1997? 936

A. Right. Yes, that was after Customs. I will tell you what

actually happened is, the Customs handler I had advised me

that Customs could not handle the stuff that I was giving

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them and he says about going to the police. And I said no,

I wouldn't go to Special Branch, and I told him why. But

he already knew because some of his Customs colleagues had

gone to Special Branch about me. And Special Branch and

myself had a bad run-in with MI5; you know the whole

relationship went very sour because I believe they set me

up to be murdered, and again, set me up a few times very

recklessly that would have cost me my life. There was bad

blood. So, I went in and he says about CID. So I went in

to Antrim Road police station and spoke to Witness 71. And

he had a colleague with him at that time, I think it was

another Detective Sergeant, but he retired from the Force

shortly after that. But in the meantime, I gave him

information on a major smuggler in the Newry area who was

also a Special Branch informant and who has been covered by

Special Branch. He was taking in drugs, cigarettes

everything. I gave him information on that person because

clearly MI5 weren't doing anything about it.

Q. Now, at the stage you start giving information to CID, what 937

other agencies did you have any involvement with?

A. At the time of CID, I was just working with this one person

here, and at that time we targeted, again it's a man who

has been convicted, a Mafia guy called Luigi Marotta.

Marotta was based in London, he was actually from Milan or

somewhere, but he was based in London and he did computer

chips. Computer chips at that time were a very high value

small package.

Q. And I think that item which you reported, I think that 938

robbery never took place?

A. But that is not my fault. I mean --

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Q. I am not saying it is? 939

A. No, no, I just want to make sure, you know, just so the

Tribunal know. Those conversations were recorded by me

with the police in presence, and they knew from their own

listening devices in some of the people's houses involved

that this was being planned. You know, just in case -- as

you know it never happened. This is not misinformation,

sir. This was a live operation that was running. But that

actual operation did not come off. They were going to

hijack the container lorries full of microchips. But what

happened straight on the run-off of that is, these people

had got access, these IRA people in Derry, they got access

to -- they had a cleaner who was working in St. Brendan's,

it's a liquor factory. What this cleaner did actually was

took, you know these cheques that's printed out from the

company are on big rolls or a floppy thing that come out of

a box, the cleaner took a number of cheques from the bottom

of the box, so they wouldn't have been missed. So Marotta

then was a person who had people in the banking places in

Milan and Monte Carlo, they could launder money and change

cheques. So basically what it was, when they said this to

me I said it to my handlers. And they'd put another

operation in straight off the roll-off of the microchips,

because it was the exact same people that were going to do

the microchips that had the St. Brendan's cheques.

Q. These were the CID people? 940

A. No, no, this is the people I was giving it to, yes, CID.

This was Witness 71, who was Drug Squad, but when this

thing came up, he went to the Financial Crime Unit, which

was Witness 70.

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Q. And that's the man who was here before him, Witness 70? 941

A. He was here this morning?

Q. No, he was here before Witness 71? 942

A. Oh, right. Sorry, I didn't know that.

Q. Tell us now that you've mentioned him -- 943

A. Yes, sir.

Q. -- he gave evidence that you and he and another senior 944

detective --

A. Yes, sir.

Q. -- went down south? 945

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Q. And that you were to take him to the factory or a factory 946

where you said that the, was it the Omagh bomb was built?

A. No, sir, you're incorrect there. I told him that -- when a

certain senior police officer got on TV after the Omagh

bombing, I mean before that I gave Witness 71 the

information I had about Blair. And every time I'd go back

to him, I say, "Is there any..." He said, yeah; he made

inquiries, something was being done. He was under the

impression that the RUC were doing action -- they were

actioning the information. So it went on. But one day the

senior investigating officer was on television and he

started crying. That was [deleted]. He cried on

television. And it annoyed me. So I actually rang him and

I got through to his personal assistant, sort of Batman,

you know his assistant in the police. And I told him that

I had information and that I did work for the police. And

we arranged a call the next day. So I called him the next

day and I spoke to [deleted] and I said about I worked for

the RUC, and I gave him the names of 70 and 71. And he

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says, "I'm their boss." And it actually shocked me. I

mean, if he was their boss, he should have known about this

stuff. So we arranged a meeting, and it was in the Europa

Hotel. [Deleted] came around to me with another policeman,

who I don't know, and we went through the thing that I told

'71. And he says, "Right, right." And I says -- he went

through the things and I told him about 'Mooch' Blair and

everything else, and he went back and checked things. And

then we arranged to talk again on the phone and I spoke to

him. And I think at this time 71 was away on a holiday, he

was on holidays. So he arranged with 70 and himself that

I'd take them to a place -- I did not say the Omagh bomb

was made there, because it came out that it was

Carrickmacross, that area that they suspected. At the

start they thought it was up around south Armagh. And I

said I know a place there where 'Mooch' Blair used when he

was with the Provisional IRA to make explosives and

mortars. So --

Q. Where did you take these men to? 947

A. It was just outside Carrickmacross. I mean, I can't name

the road, but I could drive you to it, right house, yeah.

This house was used before by the Provisional IRA.

Q. Because your counsel suggested that it was a place in 948

Kingscourt, County Cavan?

A. Well, it's Carrickmacross. It is just outside

Carrickmacross. There is a hotel on the left. I don't

know the name of the hotel. But you go down past the

hotel, it is about three stops and you go right and in to

the countryside. If you get a car I will drive you to it.

Q. And nobody got out of the car? 949

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A. No, sir.

Q. And nobody took a picture?950

A. And I will tell you what actually happened, we actually

went down one wrong road. And at that time there is a car

pulled out in front of us and three fellas get out, and we

all nearly shit ourselves, because they thought that I had

set them up and I thought -- I didn't know because nobody

knew where we were going because I met them in Aughnacloy

and I switched to their car. But in the end, we went back

up the road, went on the other road and there we spotted

the house. They took a note of it. And the way the police

tried to discredit this with the Omagh stuff was, they says

ah, they raided it and the man got a court order to stop

the guards, you know, from raiding him. When the

Provisional IRA were using it to build bombs, this is

before, some attacks in Northern Ireland many years before

it, the guards -- this guy already had an injunction to

stop the guards, you know, raiding his place. He must have

shouted -- it was -- you know, how could you say it? I

don't know the word.

Q. Sorry, can I just stop you there. We have got to get 951

through just briefly these items. The point was that the

witness understood that he was being taken to somewhere in

connection with Omagh and it wasn't in fact, is that what

you are telling us?

A. Sir, he shouldn't be saying that it was in connection with

Omagh, it was a possibility that this place may have been

used to build a bomb. No one said that it was where the

bomb was made. That was never said, sir. It was said this

is a place where 'Mooch' Blair and the IRA used many times

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to build bombs in that area, and it was thought that it was

relevant that they should maybe look to see it just in

case, you know. But it was not said this is where it was

built. That is not the case, sir.

Q. I think then, that your relationship with the CID 952

terminated around the time of the Omagh bomb?

A. Shortly after it, sir. Do you want me to give you the

instance of what happened, do you? Would you like the

answer?

Q. The answer to the question really is, did it terminate or 953

did it not?

A. It terminated because we were targeting 'Mooch' Blair at

this stage and at this stage 'Mooch' Blair was looking --

he'd give shopping lists for the Real IRA. And at that

stage I went and got them bullet-proof vests. These were

bullet-proof vests with 30 calibre plates. These would

stop most rifles, you know, at that time. So I actually

went to Birmingham and I purchased bullet-proof vests bit

by bit, and my handlers knew about that. Bullet-proof

vests are totally legal. So I was supplying 'Mooch' Blair

with these vests. I remember at one time Witness 70 met me

with 71, he says, "Some of your vests have turned up in

Dublin." There was an armoured car robbed here in Dublin,

and I think the guys got out with AKAs but they had the

bullet-proof vests on. But after the robbery the guards

had found some of the vests. So my handlers knew straight

away. These were Israeli vests. They are a very special

type; you know they weren't very common. But also one of

these vests was also used when a Real IRA bomber drive a

bomb to Gough Barracks in Armagh. He abandoned the car

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outside, but luckily he was arrested, and he was wearing

one of these bullet-proof vests as well. Also, at that

time, sir, the garda, it must have been in Dundalk or one

of the surrounding areas, found an arms dump, there was

explosives. And I remember in the news it says there were

a number of bullet-proof vests, and these were these vests

again. But in that dump there was a new type of explosive

device, I never found out what new type of explosive device

was there. So the thing is, we were targeting 'Mooch'.

These things were all adding up to 'Mooch's' as well

connection with the Real IRA team. So at that time --

'Mooch' Blair knew that I was travelling back and forth to

London, I was doing different things. So we met up. He

thought I was dealing with drug dealers, but of course I

knew drug dealers because I was hanging them to the police

and Customs. He said he had access to a million Viagra

tablets. So I says right. I told 71 that 'Mooch' has

access to a million Viagra tablets. At that time they were

selling on the black-market for £10 a tablet. So I told

him my friend, the drug dealer, rich guy in England would

come over and give him £5 per tablet, but he needed a

sample. So I remember I got a blister pack off 'Mooch', it

was a four-pack with blisters but two tablets were missing.

So I handed the sample to 71, my handler, and he checked

this out with -- it must have been with the garda and

everybody else, and the factory. And I think Pfizer told

him at that time that, yes, that is their tablet and it is

not in public -- you know it came from a secure place, it

wasn't released to the public. So, 71 was in the process

of setting up a sting to basically catch 'Mooch' Blair and

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those people.

Q. Where did you -- did you understand that 'Mooch' already 954

was in possession of these items?

A. No, no, 'Mooch' said he had access to them, so he got me a

sample. So I brought the sample -- the things were in

secure storage. So they had access to the secure storage.

So usually when it's that, it is usually, usually, I can't

say it is definite, a security man, a helpful hand inside

would normally give them the inside information, which he

must have had, because apparently the blister pack was not

on public --it was not out in public. It was supposed to

be in a secure storage place, but quite clearly 'Mooch' got

hold of it. So, the RUC, it would have been the RUC at the

time, 71 was setting up a thing and whatever way he put it

through the system, it was blocked by Special Branch. So

there was an operation where 'Mooch' Blair again was going

to be targeted. There was evidence that 'Mooch' Blair had

access to Viagra tablets for a terrorist organisation that

were in secure storage. It was quite clear, he gave us a

sample. And they were going to make, possibly, 5 million

pound; that's what they thought they were going to make,

the Real IRA.

Q. We only heard of this allegation yesterday -- 955

A. You only heard of it yesterday, sir, did you?

Q. -- that you gave, that you gave information to your 956

handler, number 71?

A. You didn't know it before that, sir, no?

Q. No. Now, having checked as quickly as we can -- 957

A. Sorry, sir?

Q. -- there appears to be no, no record of any such 958

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allegation with the Fraud Squad and the Garda Síochána?

A. With the Viagra tablets?

Q. Um-hmm. 959

A. I don't think that is right, sir.

Q. There is no record of any such item? 960

A. Well, I think we would need to call Witness 71 again, sir,

and ask him that. I think maybe, sir, you are not playing

with all the notes. Maybe you don't have a copy of all of

the notes, do you? It is my understanding it is known

about.

Q. As I say, insofar as we have been able to check with the 961

Fraud Squad here, they have no record of it and nobody has

any recollection of any such incident?

A. Oh, right. Maybe the record-keeping system is maybe not up

to... I don't know.

Q. Because it is not something that anybody was likely to 962

forget?

A. Well, I never forgot about it, sir. I am sure Witness 71

has not forgot about it either.

Q. And I think the case that you -- you know then that as a 963

result of a newspaper article, I think it was in the

Sunday People, you have attributed it to the Sunday Press,

but as a result of an article in the Sunday People that the

Ombudsman conducted an investigation?

A. No, no, I knew that was in the paper. I mean, I did not

give that story. At that stage, sir, that person was very

hostile to me. It was -- the editor was Greg Harkin, and

he was the author of this story. At this time I was living

in England on the run. And of course, the paper came out I

told cops about Omagh. But of course I never told cops

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about Omagh and I never soak to that journalist.

Q. And this was on the 29th of July, 2001, in the Sunday 964

People?

A. Yeah. I mean, after that the Ombudsman then started her

own investigation. I mean I was no source; I was not a

source in that paper. I mean the headline -- I was

actually -- when the Ombudsman's people did come and talk

to me, they say, "Did you?" I said, "I've never spoke to

that journalist in my life." At that stage I hadn't spoke

to that journalist. That journalist up until then was

putting stories in the papers that actually exposed me and

would cause me harm.

Q. And I think you had in fact given various bits of 965

information to your CID handler which tended to implicate

Mr. Blair in the matter?

A. In which, the Omagh bomb?

Q. In Omagh? 966

A. Yes, sir. And a number of attacks just before the Omagh

bomb where he was mixing explosives and bombs did go off a

few days after each time I reported to my handler.

Q. And undoubtedly, you are aware, then, that Mr. Flanagan, 967

subsequent to that, issued a statement dealing with the

various pieces of information that had been given in which

he said that Mr. Blair and another person had been under

constant surveillance for the previous week?

A. Just when you bring that up, sir, that other person was

known as Man B in the Ombudsman's report. Man A was

'Mooch' Blair. Man B was, what do you call it? Man B was

- I don't want to say his name here.

Q. Well, if you would like to write it down then, perhaps? 968

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A. Yeah, yeah, certainly, sir.

CHAIRMAN: Do you want to see it, Mr. Durack?

A. I think I actually wrote it down the other day, we've dealt

with this the other day, but show me and I'll do it again.

CHAIRMAN: Do you want to see it, Mr. Durack?

MR. DURACK: No, no, I am content if you have it.

(Witness writes name and hands it to the Chairman.)

And I think Mr. Flanagan confirmed that Mr. Blair had never

been a suspect in relation to --

A. No, I think what Mr. Flanagan said, that 'Mooch' Blair,

that Man A, was never a police informant. So, therefore,

he broke -- the only two people he has actually broke the

rule for, neither confirm nor deny, is myself and 'Mooch'

Blair. This is the same time that he called me a Walter

Mitty and fantasist, but we have since found out, through

this Tribunal, that he had apologised for that to my

handler. The thing is, Man B, in the Omagh bomb report by

the Ombudsman, the name is here, so it is, you will find

that, a number of years later, he was arrested for another

thing where his DNA was there and they were saying he had

no connection with Omagh, but yet they tried to connect

him, many years later, with the Omagh bomb, as well. They

actually made a connection with his blood type. He was up

for another --

Q. Sorry, the point being, in any case, that what Mr. Flanagan 969

said was that he had been under surveillance for the

previous week?

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A. Right. Well, then, they would have seen me, then, going up

and down to Dundalk. It is quite clear surveillance,

maybe, wasn't as good as they thought it was.

Q. And I think there's a number of items that you had provided 970

to your CID person?

A. Yeah.

Q. In fact, you were relating them to other people when, in 971

fact, you were the one who was actually doing the things

yourself?

A. No, sir. Give me the instances, please, so that I can

correct you on them, because I don't think you are playing

with the full set of notes there.

Q. Now, there appears to be, on the 6th of June, 1998, that 972

you said that the New IRA was looking for cash to buy

weapons and coffee grinders?

A. Yes, sir, and they were actually targeting people to rob.

One of those places that I told my handler about was the

Hermitage Bar in Newry. Also, another guy was a guy called

Patrick Doyle, he was a drug dealer/smuggler. And what

actually happened is, lo and behold, the owner of the

Hermitage Bar, his house was robbed. Also, Pat Doyle was

robbed as well, sir. You know, so, sir, I don't think you

are playing with the full facts.

Q. Well, what Mr. Flanagan said -- 973

A. Mr. Flanagan said, sometimes, more things than he really

meant and he had to back down later on, sir.

Q. Was that, in fact, it was you that was doing this and not 974

Mr. Blair?

A. So it was me doing the robberies?

Q. Well, looking to organise them? 975

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A. No, no, that is not correct. The thing was, I told my

handlers that 'Mooch' Blair was actually looking for places

to rob, and places that he had suggested I told my

handlers. I think your notes are actually up the left.

Q. And on the 23rd of July, '98, there was -- you made a 976

suggestion that Mr. A, or Mr. Blair, was organising bombs

and that he was collecting body armour, which you have told

us that you were doing that?

A. Yes, sir. Sure I have already told my handlers that I was

supplying him with the body armour. This isn't -- I don't

really get what he is at, sir. I had already told my

handlers that Blair was looking for body armour and I was

going to supply it, which I did. My handlers knew that.

Q. Essentially, the suggestion is that you were providing 977

information that was untrue and that you knew was untrue?

A. Sir, I don't know how providing the information about the

body armour was untrue when I was supplying the body

armour. My handlers knew about it. And when a robbery

happened in Dublin, and it was these paramilitaries, or

they think it was, they found the body armour there. They

found it in a Real IRA arms dump just outside Dundalk.

They also found it when the Real IRA drove a bomb to Gough

Barracks in Armagh. The guy was arrested wearing it. How

is that wrong information, sir?

Q. Now, you found all of this very exciting, your involvement 978

in all of these events?

A. Sir, that is what you actually do, is, like, policemen and

soldiers, ask a policeman running in a unit that is doing

that, they will find it very exciting, sir. It goes with

the job.

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Q. You told us originally that when you were dealing with your 979

army men, that you used to meet them in houses and cars and

things?

A. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Q. But then you suggest that you were doing an awful lot of 980

travelling subsequently?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you mentioned Paris? 981

A. Yes, sir, MI5 -- that's the difference: When the army were

debriefing you, and that, it was usually in a car in a car

park, or you would drive somewhere, maybe into an army

base, and you would do the debrief there, in the side of a

van, they would slide the door back, get in and drive and

debrief you. When MI5 took over, everybody used to have a

saying for them, they were the rich cousins, because, I

mean, MI5 had a budget that everybody else didn't have.

And MI5 would fly you sometimes to Paris for a debrief,

sometimes they would fly you to Edinburgh, to Scotland, to

London, for a day or two days, and they'd debrief you. The

whole purpose of that is to get you out of the cauldron, to

get you out of Northern Ireland for a rest, get you out of

the place for a break.

Q. And how -- 982

A. Sorry.

Q. Sorry, go on, continue. Don't let me stop you. 983

A. That is actually what they would do, they would take you to

these places. It gives you and it gives them a nicer air

to debrief you. You are not in the cauldron, you are not

in south Down, south Armagh, Belfast. There is no risk of

getting caught, and it is easier for you, easier for them.

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It is R and R, it is a break.

MR. DURACK: I am told it is 4 o'clock.

CHAIRMAN: It is 4 o'clock. I was going to suggest --

MR. DURACK: I won't be very much longer but --

CHAIRMAN: Do you want five minutes?

MR. DURACK: No, I think we should leave it until tomorrow.

CHAIRMAN: I think it is probably easier. So we will say

11 o'clock tomorrow morning, then. May I ask at this

point, how many other questions will -- how many other

counsel propose to cross-examine tomorrow?

MS. MULVIHILL: Yes, you do.

MR. COFFEY: I don't propose to put any questions to this

witness.

MS. O'SULLIVAN: I am in the same situation as Mr. Coffey.

At the moment, I don't propose to put any questions.

MR. ROBINSON: I have no questions.

MR. ROURKE: I will have some questions, Mr. Chairman.

MR. RAFFERTY: I will have a re-examination, but I would

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imagine that I can deal with that in short compass.

CHAIRMAN: Who is that last contribution from?

MR. RAFFERTY: That was myself, on behalf of Mr. Keeley.

CHAIRMAN: Yes. Thank you very much. Then there will be

the re-examination by Mrs. Laverty, isn't that so? Yes.

THE TRIBUNAL ADJOURNED UNTIL THE FOLLOWING DAY, FRIDAY, THE

16TH OF DECEMBER, 2011, AT 11 A.M.

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''71 [1] - 150:6'79 [1] - 109:12'90s [4] - 71:15, 124:18,

134:25, 135:1'91 [1] - 67:2'92 [2] - 58:16, 135:18'94 [1] - 135:18'98 [1] - 159:5'Eye' [1] - 135:13'friend' [1] - 18:11'Mooch' [89] - 5:6, 9:6,

9:12, 10:26, 11:24, 17:30, 19:13, 19:14, 20:4, 23:22, 23:30, 24:8, 36:25, 36:27, 37:19, 37:22, 37:23, 38:4, 38:16, 38:30, 39:9, 39:11, 39:27, 40:15, 40:17, 40:23, 41:28, 50:7, 50:19, 51:24, 51:29, 52:2, 52:15, 52:25, 53:9, 53:20, 53:24, 53:30, 54:17, 55:1, 55:8, 55:14, 57:1, 58:11, 59:17, 62:3, 65:5, 65:13, 68:12, 71:10, 73:18, 73:27, 74:10, 74:25, 76:13, 78:9, 78:16, 78:18, 89:3, 119:23, 120:25, 121:27, 122:2, 129:1, 129:8, 130:8, 135:6, 136:27, 138:17, 150:7, 150:16, 151:30, 152:12, 152:13, 152:20, 153:12, 153:17, 153:22, 153:30, 154:2, 154:4, 154:12, 154:16, 154:17, 156:28, 157:13, 157:16, 159:2

'Mooch's' [1] - 153:10'On [1] - 26:27'our [2] - 40:2, 89:5'Slab' [1] - 95:2'Unsung [1] - 72:14

00800 [3] - 126:24, 126:25,

127:6

110 [1] - 39:2310,000 [1] - 121:1311 [2] - 161:13, 162:1111:30 [3] - 82:23, 83:14,

83:2411th [1] - 102:1512 [2] - 113:2, 121:512th [1] - 30:2513 [1] - 67:2313th [2] - 91:7, 91:1314th [2] - 26:18, 86:2615 [1] - 71:3158 [1] - 66:1915TH [1] - 1:1

16 [1] - 106:7161 [1] - 72:2516th [2] - 70:5, 70:616TH [1] - 162:1118th [5] - 49:7, 49:11,

49:26, 66:23, 67:21978 [1] - 109:101979 [5] - 9:2, 14:27,

21:15, 22:9, 109:111980s [1] - 53:21981 [8] - 9:7, 9:14, 10:6,

115:5, 117:10, 117:11, 117:19, 118:18

1982 [3] - 9:7, 9:14, 10:61983/'84 [1] - 118:181984 [3] - 117:16, 117:19,

118:41985 [4] - 9:18, 119:7,

119:14, 119:221986 [3] - 9:20, 121:4,

121:201989 [25] - 19:23, 20:1,

20:6, 20:14, 20:26, 20:30, 21:21, 23:9, 24:21, 25:22, 29:9, 30:25, 36:18, 42:27, 58:8, 58:13, 60:9, 73:5, 73:18, 82:23, 87:12, 87:28, 129:17, 131:20, 136:18

1990 [2] - 58:14, 70:171991 [18] - 21:23, 49:3,

49:7, 49:11, 49:15, 49:26, 50:2, 50:21, 52:3, 58:15, 60:4, 66:20, 66:22, 66:23, 66:30, 70:6, 71:9, 126:2

1991.. [1] - 70:51994 [1] - 139:21996 [1] - 2:241997 [2] - 146:24, 146:271998 [1] - 158:131999 [2] - 90:30, 100:91st [2] - 17:27, 32:19

220 [1] - 58:82000 [5] - 90:30, 91:2,

91:5, 91:8, 91:142001 [1] - 156:22002 [1] - 99:62003 [5] - 35:23, 52:30,

107:28, 108:5, 108:62004 [4] - 26:13, 26:19,

61:23, 86:262006 [1] - 35:242011 [2] - 1:1, 162:1120th [11] - 20:1, 20:13,

20:29, 21:29, 22:27, 23:6, 23:9, 73:4, 73:18, 82:23, 87:11

23rd [1] - 159:525th [1] - 99:626th [1] - 115:528th [2] - 36:18, 131:2029th [1] - 156:2

330 [1] - 152:1630th [3] - 24:21, 25:22,

29:93:25 [1] - 82:12

44 [2] - 161:2, 161:4405 [1] - 124:164th [4] - 58:7, 58:13,

58:15, 60:8

55 [1] - 154:205,000 [1] - 121:13

66 [1] - 92:2060 [1] - 40:286th [1] - 158:13

770 [5] - 148:30, 149:1,

149:30, 150:11, 152:2171 [26] - 2:12, 2:14, 2:16,

2:17, 2:20, 2:29, 3:24, 4:28, 6:29, 146:23, 147:10, 148:28, 149:3, 149:16, 149:30, 150:10, 152:22, 153:17, 153:24, 153:29, 154:14, 154:26, 155:6, 155:18

880 [1] - 40:28

99:30 [1] - 16:119th [3] - 52:30, 107:28,

119:14

Aa.m [4] - 16:11, 82:23,

83:14, 83:24A.M [1] - 162:11abandoned [1] - 152:30abduct [1] - 86:7abducted [13] - 64:23,

64:24, 65:2, 65:3, 65:10, 65:13, 65:26, 65:30, 96:20, 104:28, 143:15

abduction [12] - 49:5, 64:27, 65:1, 66:1, 67:8, 67:23, 71:4, 71:5, 71:11, 72:12, 142:24, 142:26

abductions [1] - 67:6ability [1] - 6:4able [17] - 11:24, 13:10,

18:30, 21:29, 32:30, 60:18, 80:20, 93:17,

97:28, 112:2, 122:10, 123:3, 131:10, 143:23, 145:22, 155:11

absolute [1] - 102:14absolutely [35] - 14:29,

20:16, 22:23, 28:26, 31:17, 42:10, 46:11, 55:27, 71:19, 83:10, 89:29, 90:4, 93:5, 93:19, 95:14, 96:3, 96:13, 99:30, 100:19, 101:21, 101:23, 102:23, 102:26, 102:30, 103:15, 103:24, 104:14, 106:20, 108:26, 109:1, 111:2, 138:11, 138:24, 139:29, 141:23

abuse [1] - 106:10accent [2] - 30:10, 30:20accept [6] - 33:27, 84:29,

107:13, 108:3, 120:6, 132:3

accepted [1] - 120:5access [17] - 44:5, 44:19,

44:20, 46:3, 46:4, 58:18, 58:24, 60:15, 60:16, 148:12, 153:16, 153:18, 154:4, 154:6, 154:18

accommodation [3] - 101:4, 101:5, 101:15

according [8] - 10:2, 40:18, 44:14, 55:28, 56:5, 65:17, 79:16, 135:17

account [6] - 6:3, 18:14, 60:3, 70:3, 78:28, 122:22

accounts [1] - 118:18accuracy [3] - 16:27,

17:2, 17:7accurate [1] - 5:2accusing [1] - 89:24achievement [2] - 11:22,

12:21acted [1] - 144:8acting [1] - 143:28action [3] - 100:26,

140:19, 149:20actioning [1] - 149:21actions [2] - 64:7, 64:11actively [1] - 64:5activists [1] - 4:7activities [3] - 3:11, 92:6,

145:19activity [1] - 2:26Acton [2] - 126:9, 126:10actual [5] - 42:24, 67:4,

84:21, 145:13, 148:9adding [1] - 153:10ADJOURNED [2] - 81:24,

162:10admired [2] - 105:25,

105:26admission [1] - 84:22admit [10] - 57:8, 57:15,

65:24, 65:27, 104:26, 142:23, 142:25, 142:29,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

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143:4, 143:5admitted [6] - 6:24,

55:27, 65:23, 136:5, 143:8, 143:24

advance [4] - 47:16, 60:27, 80:26, 80:27

advise [3] - 127:28, 130:13, 142:19

advised [1] - 146:29AFTER [1] - 82:1afternoon [5] - 75:8, 82:6,

82:7, 82:30, 109:7afterwards [10] - 47:9,

62:24, 62:25, 63:10, 63:11, 63:28, 64:16, 64:17, 64:19, 86:13

age [1] - 110:23agencies [4] - 5:21, 98:1,

104:25, 147:20agency [2] - 5:26, 98:19agenda [1] - 90:13agent [16] - 4:10, 10:2,

11:25, 44:14, 51:11, 79:23, 79:24, 92:6, 102:17, 104:26, 104:29, 133:9, 140:24, 141:23, 144:27, 146:11

Agent [1] - 72:15agent's [2] - 4:13, 134:20agents [5] - 46:24,

102:18, 103:14, 127:3, 140:21

ago [16] - 8:24, 10:22, 14:23, 16:10, 17:27, 40:5, 41:8, 61:7, 61:22, 77:4, 89:12, 102:28, 103:21, 103:28, 116:17, 128:30

agree [29] - 4:30, 5:1, 5:7, 5:8, 5:12, 10:5, 18:18, 44:16, 45:29, 47:15, 48:11, 48:18, 48:20, 48:23, 50:17, 51:2, 51:4, 54:15, 54:18, 61:29, 67:7, 77:2, 77:10, 77:26, 80:25, 82:28, 85:4, 90:11, 91:14

agreed [3] - 99:7, 99:22, 99:24

agreement [1] - 5:11ahead [3] - 3:30, 119:12,

123:7air [1] - 160:27Airport [3] - 125:9, 126:8,

126:15airport [1] - 126:16Airways [1] - 126:8AK [2] - 53:26, 112:26AKAs [1] - 152:24Alan [1] - 90:19Aldergrove [1] - 126:8alive [2] - 63:30, 78:12allegation [5] - 19:8,

89:28, 104:5, 154:23, 155:1

allegations [4] - 104:15, 104:23, 107:6, 107:10

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allege [2] - 14:22, 96:12alleged [8] - 6:4, 9:9,

19:16, 30:27, 47:17, 48:27, 62:11, 99:9

allegedly [3] - 78:17, 98:2, 141:3

Allied [1] - 112:28allowed [1] - 140:21ambush [4] - 76:10,

76:12, 102:19, 107:29ammunition [2] - 110:2,

110:4amnesty [1] - 87:8amount [6] - 80:30,

116:17, 119:4, 122:20, 122:28, 122:30

analysis [2] - 79:16, 80:1Andy [2] - 109:17, 113:6andy [1] - 115:17annoyed [1] - 149:24answer [15] - 3:10, 12:24,

13:14, 34:8, 46:5, 47:27, 48:17, 61:13, 88:19, 103:6, 127:7, 129:25, 129:26, 152:9, 152:10

answers [1] - 61:13anti [1] - 97:14anti-republican [1] -

97:14Antrim [1] - 147:10any.. [1] - 149:18anyhow [2] - 40:25, 47:6anyway [1] - 123:8apologies [1] - 141:28apologised [3] - 6:28,

136:2, 157:19appeal [1] - 109:30Appeal [1] - 24:11appear [4] - 36:7, 88:3,

109:8, 121:20appeared [1] - 70:3appreciate [6] - 7:17,

7:24, 24:20, 83:5, 135:24, 135:26

apprehended [1] - 37:16approach [1] - 31:11approached [2] - 52:2,

109:14appropriate [1] - 81:17April [5] - 49:27, 91:8,

91:13, 119:22, 119:25area [10] - 2:27, 30:14,

38:10, 51:14, 124:2, 131:30, 134:4, 147:14, 150:14, 152:1

areas [2] - 145:16, 153:4arm [1] - 70:11Armagh [11] - 24:9,

26:30, 123:15, 124:2, 129:5, 135:15, 145:15, 150:15, 152:30, 159:23, 160:29

armed [1] - 68:8armour [6] - 159:7,

159:10, 159:12, 159:17, 159:18, 159:20

armoured [1] - 152:23

arms [2] - 153:4, 159:21Army [12] - 14:30, 22:10,

51:12, 82:21, 83:7, 83:9, 83:13, 83:23, 84:23, 98:7, 109:10, 109:29

army [40] - 11:14, 11:15, 68:2, 83:29, 84:4, 85:11, 87:14, 97:28, 104:25, 109:20, 109:25, 109:27, 112:14, 112:16, 115:1, 116:9, 116:10, 116:16, 116:19, 117:7, 117:26, 117:27, 118:5, 118:27, 122:18, 126:3, 126:17, 126:19, 127:11, 127:17, 128:18, 134:6, 134:27, 135:3, 144:19, 146:2, 146:20, 160:2, 160:9, 160:11

army-type [1] - 146:2aroused [1] - 88:16arrange [2] - 75:5, 114:23arranged [5] - 114:23,

149:28, 150:3, 150:9, 150:11

arrangement [1] - 116:8arrest [8] - 24:24, 25:7,

25:8, 57:6, 67:30, 130:1, 133:28, 143:16

arrested [29] - 5:13, 24:7, 24:16, 24:20, 25:21, 27:7, 32:15, 37:17, 57:5, 57:10, 60:18, 88:10, 94:7, 94:12, 94:22, 105:28, 106:9, 129:16, 129:22, 129:26, 132:12, 141:5, 143:15, 143:18, 144:13, 144:14, 153:1, 157:22, 159:23

arresting [2] - 133:22, 145:26

arrived [7] - 52:14, 69:1, 79:10, 79:30, 82:9, 83:16, 134:22

artefact [1] - 3:15artefacts [1] - 3:14article [10] - 69:21, 86:26,

99:5, 99:22, 101:7, 101:10, 102:11, 102:15, 155:21, 155:23

articulate [1] - 15:25AS [4] - 1:2, 2:2, 82:1,

109:5ashtray [1] - 137:27aside [3] - 19:22, 22:8,

30:26assassinate [1] - 69:30assaulted [1] - 96:14assessment [3] - 19:5,

79:29, 101:15asset [3] - 69:13, 69:16assist [7] - 22:25, 22:26,

35:21, 35:22, 90:3, 90:5, 108:30

assistance [13] - 9:9, 14:22, 14:24, 19:17, 19:22, 19:28, 20:1,

20:18, 20:20, 20:28, 21:21, 22:11, 95:3

assistant [2] - 149:25, 149:26

assisted [5] - 8:14, 16:5, 16:15, 22:3, 22:17

assisting [8] - 8:13, 8:16, 8:22, 9:24, 21:28, 23:9, 96:12, 103:20

assists [1] - 35:24associate [1] - 95:1associated [3] - 7:18,

7:25, 95:2associating [2] - 31:8,

124:7association [1] - 136:26assume [3] - 73:14,

118:28, 134:12assumed [3] - 84:19,

84:20, 119:3assumption [1] - 82:18assure [1] - 69:21assured [2] - 120:2, 120:9astonishing [8] - 10:8,

10:10, 10:11, 34:20, 35:12, 35:13, 35:28, 141:13

AT [1] - 162:11Atlantic [1] - 101:8attach [1] - 106:27attack [8] - 84:11, 94:12,

94:22, 94:29, 95:4, 139:2, 139:7, 139:11

attacked [2] - 83:26, 96:24

attacks [3] - 10:13, 151:16, 156:18

attempt [1] - 24:13attention [3] - 11:17,

61:14, 88:16attention-seeking [1] -

61:14Attorney [1] - 12:29attributed [2] - 102:24,

155:22audio [1] - 137:26Aughnacloy [1] - 151:8August [9] - 9:2, 14:27,

20:5, 36:18, 66:20, 66:22, 66:30, 131:20, 146:24

author [1] - 155:28authorities [1] - 64:11automatically [2] - 137:3,

138:19available [1] - 55:1Avenue [2] - 24:7, 118:10aware [49] - 2:16, 3:3,

3:17, 4:1, 4:5, 5:30, 6:2, 8:8, 8:15, 8:21, 9:9, 9:24, 10:15, 13:5, 13:19, 13:21, 16:18, 17:29, 19:25, 23:28, 23:30, 26:24, 31:30, 35:26, 36:16, 43:2, 43:3, 51:20, 64:10, 69:30, 73:9, 76:11, 79:10, 79:12, 79:13,

79:15, 81:7, 83:9, 85:26, 95:24, 96:23, 99:5, 102:27, 102:28, 106:20, 106:21, 107:29, 135:21, 156:21

awful [1] - 160:5aye [1] - 88:13

Bbackground [1] - 127:5bad [12] - 102:7, 118:1,

144:2, 144:27, 146:5, 146:10, 146:12, 146:15, 146:19, 146:20, 147:5, 147:8

Badley [1] - 139:16bald [1] - 30:1Ballykinler [3] - 110:4,

111:17, 112:5Ballymac' [1] - 51:1Ballymascanlon [3] -

50:30, 67:25, 68:11Ballymena [4] - 110:1,

111:4, 111:25, 111:30bang [2] - 18:7, 23:1banking [1] - 148:19Bar [2] - 158:18, 158:21bar [3] - 51:7, 52:15,

52:16barracks [1] - 111:29Barracks [4] - 110:1,

110:10, 152:30, 159:23Barry [1] - 69:12bars [2] - 51:8, 51:9base [1] - 160:12based [7] - 13:26, 33:12,

50:20, 96:5, 110:1, 147:24, 147:25

basher [6] - 139:17, 139:18, 139:19, 139:24, 139:25

basic [5] - 97:30, 110:8, 110:26, 111:3, 116:16

basis [8] - 82:18, 94:9, 101:27, 101:29, 107:10, 108:15, 142:4, 145:13

Batman [1] - 149:25battalion [3] - 115:11,

115:12, 116:14BB [1] - 18:4BE [1] - 2:1bear [1] - 96:23beat [3] - 96:20, 97:5,

120:4became [9] - 8:21, 9:23,

10:15, 10:25, 17:28, 23:30, 43:3, 102:28, 146:7

become [7] - 4:5, 8:15, 9:9, 23:28, 43:2, 102:27, 125:22

becomes [1] - 10:11becoming [1] - 135:28bed [1] - 119:1been" [1] - 75:15beforehand [1] - 60:17begin [1] - 82:3

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

2

behalf [1] - 162:5behaviour [2] - 55:17,

120:17behind [3] - 68:3, 68:7,

137:26behold [1] - 158:20Belfast [10] - 2:23, 69:9,

86:29, 104:16, 107:2, 131:15, 135:12, 139:15, 160:29

belief [2] - 82:14, 108:8bell [2] - 24:23, 91:1benefit [3] - 45:1, 61:3,

71:25benign.. [1] - 97:21Berlin [11] - 112:20,

112:21, 112:22, 112:24, 112:26, 112:27, 113:2, 114:7, 114:24, 115:9, 115:29

beside [1] - 143:1Bessbrook [1] - 123:20best [4] - 9:16, 46:7, 97:3,

100:2between [8] - 4:7, 28:5,

71:10, 79:17, 100:4, 102:2, 108:20, 119:25

big [20] - 9:27, 9:30, 10:12, 10:13, 11:20, 11:21, 11:27, 11:29, 12:4, 12:5, 18:2, 34:6, 35:16, 86:16, 121:15, 141:21, 143:30, 148:16

bigger [1] - 142:13biggest [1] - 43:7bill [4] - 122:17, 126:26,

139:28, 140:16Birmingham [1] - 152:18bit [4] - 117:2, 127:15,

152:18, 152:19bits [4] - 36:9, 141:19,

141:20, 156:13black [1] - 153:19black-market [1] - 153:19Blair [60] - 5:6, 9:6, 9:12,

10:26, 11:24, 19:13, 23:22, 24:8, 26:28, 27:3, 32:21, 38:30, 39:9, 39:27, 51:24, 52:2, 53:20, 53:30, 54:17, 55:8, 58:11, 65:5, 65:13, 71:10, 76:13, 78:17, 89:3, 119:23, 121:22, 121:28, 122:2, 124:4, 127:18, 131:12, 136:26, 137:30, 138:17, 142:1, 142:3, 149:17, 150:7, 150:16, 151:30, 152:12, 152:13, 152:20, 153:12, 153:30, 154:16, 154:17, 156:15, 156:24, 156:28, 157:11, 157:13, 157:17, 158:28, 159:2, 159:6, 159:12

Blair's [5] - 73:18, 73:28, 74:10, 74:25, 136:27

blame [1] - 134:17blamed [1] - 7:1

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blew [1] - 140:22blister [2] - 153:22,

154:10blisters [1] - 153:23blocked [1] - 154:15blood [3] - 144:27, 147:9,

157:26blow [2] - 53:25, 65:7blowing [1] - 24:10Blue [1] - 119:9bluff [1] - 143:23blunt [1] - 2:30Bob [5] - 124:30, 127:13,

127:14, 129:2, 129:9body [6] - 159:7, 159:10,

159:12, 159:17, 159:20bomb [35] - 10:13, 16:26,

18:1, 18:9, 36:17, 36:22, 36:23, 37:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:22, 37:27, 38:2, 38:5, 38:6, 39:24, 42:21, 42:23, 42:26, 43:4, 43:6, 43:7, 46:17, 130:22, 149:13, 150:12, 151:28, 151:29, 152:6, 152:30, 156:16, 156:19, 157:20, 157:25, 159:22

bomb-makers [1] - 37:22bomb-making [1] - 39:24bomber [1] - 152:29bombers [1] - 133:1bombing [5] - 6:27, 8:24,

8:28, 9:2, 149:16bombs [9] - 37:28, 88:28,

130:8, 130:9, 140:21, 151:15, 152:1, 156:19, 159:6

book [53] - 12:20, 12:23, 12:24, 12:26, 14:7, 33:7, 33:8, 33:9, 33:10, 33:12, 33:16, 33:18, 33:20, 33:22, 34:4, 34:6, 34:9, 34:12, 34:13, 34:16, 34:21, 34:22, 34:24, 34:27, 35:1, 35:3, 35:11, 35:23, 35:29, 36:1, 36:7, 61:6, 66:19, 66:21, 66:25, 66:29, 68:21, 68:25, 68:27, 68:28, 68:30, 72:13, 72:18, 72:25, 72:29, 73:3, 114:26, 115:7, 141:5, 141:8

books [2] - 86:16, 87:6boost [1] - 97:9boot [1] - 68:16Border [2] - 26:26, 68:1border [4] - 27:4, 85:10,

129:5, 131:30boss [2] - 150:1, 150:2bothered [2] - 62:13,

62:14bottom [1] - 148:17bought [2] - 118:7, 122:7box [6] - 13:2, 67:28,

110:13, 115:24, 148:17,

148:18boys [1] - 68:9Bradley [1] - 139:16Branch [40] - 5:15, 5:30,

6:16, 6:17, 6:18, 6:19, 6:26, 7:9, 13:7, 13:27, 23:15, 24:7, 30:30, 31:15, 31:24, 36:8, 98:12, 98:13, 99:1, 99:3, 134:30, 135:2, 135:18, 135:19, 135:21, 135:22, 136:4, 144:9, 144:19, 145:25, 146:18, 146:19, 146:20, 147:2, 147:4, 147:15, 147:16, 154:15

breaching [1] - 89:25break [4] - 57:8, 65:15,

160:22, 161:1breakfast [2] - 75:6, 75:7Breen [19] - 19:19, 24:27,

36:15, 55:30, 73:5, 76:11, 76:17, 78:6, 86:28, 88:12, 89:1, 92:13, 92:16, 92:21, 102:12, 104:3, 107:12, 107:15, 108:2

Breen/Buchanan [1] - 129:21

Brendan [3] - 16:24, 16:25, 18:5

Brendan's [2] - 148:13, 148:25

bricks [1] - 140:20brief [1] - 144:15briefly [1] - 151:22bring [2] - 110:13, 156:26Britain [1] - 12:29British [26] - 10:3, 11:13,

14:30, 22:9, 40:30, 44:12, 51:11, 51:12, 60:28, 60:30, 70:12, 82:21, 83:7, 83:9, 83:13, 83:23, 84:23, 91:28, 98:7, 102:13, 103:14, 109:9, 109:29, 112:28, 126:5, 126:8

broadcast [1] - 26:26brogue [2] - 30:14broke [4] - 65:12, 140:22,

157:15brother [1] - 125:5brother-in-law [1] - 125:5brought [6] - 1:8, 11:17,

33:30, 70:25, 141:5, 154:5

Buchanan [19] - 19:19, 24:28, 36:15, 55:30, 73:6, 76:10, 76:17, 78:6, 86:28, 88:12, 89:1, 92:13, 92:16, 92:22, 102:12, 104:3, 107:12, 107:16, 108:2

budget [1] - 160:16build [6] - 110:27, 117:23,

135:7, 151:15, 151:28, 152:1

building [1] - 110:18

buildings [2] - 109:23, 140:22

builds [1] - 60:12built [4] - 131:12, 135:7,

149:13, 152:4bulky [2] - 29:13, 29:27bullet [7] - 152:15,

152:16, 152:18, 152:19, 152:25, 153:2, 153:6

bullet-proof [7] - 152:15, 152:16, 152:18, 152:19, 152:25, 153:2, 153:6

bungalow [1] - 118:11bunker [3] - 131:5,

131:11, 131:12Burns [4] - 16:23, 16:24,

16:25, 18:5business [4] - 116:29,

119:3, 123:24, 136:11button [1] - 130:21buy [4] - 124:27, 125:15,

158:14buzz [1] - 146:10BY [2] - 2:1, 109:5

Ccalender [1] - 9:30calibre [1] - 152:16Callan [2] - 23:5, 32:24Callan's [23] - 30:11,

30:27, 31:30, 32:11, 32:21, 36:14, 47:18, 50:1, 50:13, 50:26, 50:28, 51:5, 51:15, 52:4, 52:6, 52:11, 57:27, 63:14, 76:21, 92:3, 136:18, 137:28, 141:10

camera [3] - 129:5, 129:7, 129:11

cameras [1] - 106:12camp [3] - 110:2, 111:4,

115:10cannot [7] - 9:21, 13:14,

13:24, 23:3, 23:8, 26:24, 102:23

capacity [1] - 31:27capped [1] - 97:17capture [1] - 78:12captured [1] - 86:16car [69] - 8:17, 23:26,

24:8, 30:11, 30:27, 31:4, 31:20, 31:23, 31:29, 32:5, 32:7, 32:10, 43:15, 48:29, 49:12, 50:6, 50:7, 50:19, 52:6, 52:14, 52:20, 53:3, 53:10, 53:19, 53:21, 54:16, 55:7, 56:30, 57:2, 57:16, 59:4, 59:17, 65:6, 67:25, 70:9, 122:6, 122:7, 122:11, 123:8, 124:3, 124:10, 124:11, 124:13, 124:15, 124:21, 124:26, 124:30, 125:2, 125:15, 126:15,

134:5, 137:1, 137:17, 137:19, 137:30, 138:12, 138:16, 138:23, 150:29, 150:30, 151:4, 151:9, 152:23, 152:30, 160:10

care [2] - 18:11, 120:9career [3] - 34:23, 97:11,

97:23Carlo [1] - 148:20Carrickmacross [4] -

150:14, 150:20, 150:25, 150:26

carried [1] - 80:20carry [1] - 137:12carrying [1] - 126:11cars [9] - 23:15, 67:26,

67:27, 124:22, 124:24, 125:7, 134:9, 137:22, 160:2

case [25] - 7:13, 7:14, 13:9, 13:12, 60:30, 61:18, 84:24, 84:29, 85:20, 100:22, 115:4, 116:8, 118:29, 119:7, 121:29, 129:27, 132:17, 135:10, 137:4, 143:2, 148:6, 152:3, 152:4, 155:20, 157:28

cases [2] - 34:1, 38:4cash [11] - 122:15,

122:21, 122:27, 122:29, 123:3, 124:27, 125:4, 125:10, 145:2, 158:14

Castlerea [1] - 139:5catch [4] - 69:15, 116:5,

146:10, 153:30catching [1] - 146:5categoric [1] - 70:23caught [14] - 18:5, 36:22,

36:24, 38:17, 52:23, 54:2, 54:9, 59:6, 59:9, 85:16, 136:13, 139:11, 144:30, 160:30

cauldron [2] - 160:20, 160:28

causing [1] - 14:11Cavan [1] - 150:24Ceili [4] - 92:3, 136:18,

137:28, 141:10Centre [2] - 110:12, 111:5certain [20] - 13:14,

13:16, 13:24, 14:6, 15:24, 27:10, 33:30, 71:19, 83:29, 84:3, 84:7, 93:19, 104:5, 108:29, 119:4, 123:16, 130:20, 138:18, 149:15

certainly [9] - 7:25, 49:3, 81:17, 87:28, 95:25, 135:20, 140:7, 142:7, 157:1

certified [1] - 58:6chain [1] - 134:18CHAIRMAN [26] - 1:4,

1:13, 14:16, 25:26, 25:30, 27:19, 27:26, 35:5, 42:5, 53:12, 69:15, 75:4, 75:10,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

3

81:17, 82:3, 87:19, 113:27, 114:3, 119:20, 157:3, 157:7, 161:4, 161:8, 161:12, 162:3, 162:7

Chairman [49] - 1:6, 7:17, 7:25, 8:1, 8:4, 8:15, 12:30, 14:19, 19:16, 20:28, 21:8, 21:29, 22:10, 22:12, 22:19, 22:27, 23:7, 27:14, 28:6, 28:12, 29:5, 31:20, 34:21, 35:21, 40:5, 40:8, 41:8, 42:2, 43:22, 45:19, 49:21, 50:27, 51:16, 52:2, 63:12, 66:28, 67:1, 71:18, 81:10, 81:12, 81:22, 82:5, 91:25, 93:28, 106:18, 108:10, 113:16, 157:10, 161:28

chalet [2] - 115:23, 118:11

chalet-type [1] - 118:11chance [1] - 85:12change [3] - 125:25,

138:23, 148:20charged [2] - 18:10,

132:21chased [1] - 70:10chat [2] - 115:28, 122:1chatting [2] - 68:1, 114:9check [3] - 91:15, 123:18,

155:11checked [3] - 150:8,

153:24, 154:28cheesed [2] - 47:1, 47:2cheques [4] - 148:15,

148:17, 148:21, 148:25Chester [2] - 115:10,

115:12chicken [3] - 68:10,

72:10, 72:16Chief [9] - 6:21, 19:18,

24:27, 36:15, 55:30, 73:5, 76:11, 102:12, 139:7

chill [2] - 111:19, 111:28chill-out [1] - 111:19chips [2] - 147:26choppers [1] - 123:30Chris [3] - 99:5, 99:13,

99:15CID [14] - 98:13, 98:15,

135:22, 144:10, 145:6, 145:27, 147:9, 147:19, 147:21, 148:26, 148:27, 152:5, 156:14, 158:5

cigarettes [2] - 145:17, 147:16

cipher [6] - 2:15, 2:20, 5:16, 37:8, 38:26, 131:13

circumspection [1] - 14:6circumstances [1] -

137:5civilian [3] - 57:22, 117:8,

117:23

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civilians [1] - 131:2claim [6] - 35:28, 71:4,

72:21, 102:27, 103:23, 108:30

claimed [4] - 70:13, 102:10, 102:11, 102:18

claims [4] - 86:28, 102:11, 108:23, 108:28

clarify [1] - 31:19classed [1] - 125:12cleaned [2] - 132:5,

132:17cleaner [4] - 142:8,

148:13, 148:14, 148:17clear [8] - 39:6, 39:30,

41:23, 41:27, 133:10, 145:25, 154:19, 158:2

cleared [2] - 1:8, 40:1clearly [6] - 128:9, 133:5,

140:1, 141:25, 147:18, 154:12

click [1] - 137:24client [5] - 61:17, 89:22,

89:24, 108:24, 108:28close [2] - 131:29, 144:30closely [1] - 95:2closer [1] - 12:22clothes [6] - 23:27, 57:18,

57:19, 57:20, 57:21, 57:22

clothing [1] - 132:13club [2] - 137:9, 137:10code [3] - 5:16, 86:20,

87:1codes [1] - 86:17coffee [2] - 114:10,

158:15COFFEY [1] - 161:20Coffey [1] - 161:23cold [2] - 128:17, 141:16Coleraine [1] - 111:26colleague [2] - 58:30,

147:11colleagues [4] - 6:19,

35:14, 146:9, 147:3collect [1] - 41:24collecting [1] - 159:7Colleen [2] - 130:15,

135:5Collins [28] - 22:1, 38:27,

38:28, 39:8, 39:19, 40:6, 40:12, 40:16, 41:3, 41:8, 41:9, 41:10, 41:16, 41:18, 41:21, 43:17, 74:2, 74:10, 74:13, 74:25, 75:12, 75:19, 76:16, 77:17, 84:18, 107:16

colluded [3] - 93:14, 94:28, 106:14

colluding [3] - 36:4, 36:12, 94:10

collusion [1] - 102:2colonel [2] - 115:18,

115:20colour [6] - 29:20, 30:7,

57:23, 74:6, 74:7, 122:8column [1] - 137:21

comfortable [1] - 55:15coming [17] - 7:13, 22:1,

25:11, 73:22, 74:15, 74:19, 74:26, 80:28, 84:2, 84:6, 84:9, 85:14, 102:8, 125:3, 125:8, 126:27, 134:10

commander [4] - 53:3, 76:12, 78:4, 107:30

commander's [1] - 115:2commanding [1] - 26:28commenced [1] - 83:24comment [5] - 2:8, 44:15,

54:2, 57:29, 67:16common [3] - 100:15,

100:16, 152:28Commons [1] - 91:7companies [1] - 126:29company [4] - 67:5,

70:15, 126:30, 148:16compass [1] - 162:1compelling [1] - 105:14compensation [1] -

100:10complete [3] - 13:1,

66:12, 66:15completely [9] - 55:3,

55:11, 55:16, 68:22, 77:5, 77:25, 97:12, 104:13, 107:21

complex [1] - 70:10compromise [2] - 44:17,

46:7compromised [6] - 19:4,

34:1, 44:22, 46:1, 46:6, 140:24

compromising [2] - 140:26, 140:28

computer [2] - 147:25, 147:26

concern [7] - 14:11, 16:27, 17:2, 17:4, 17:7, 133:13, 133:14

concerned [7] - 6:9, 88:3, 89:10, 100:9, 104:8, 127:20, 133:2

conclude [1] - 23:7concluded [1] - 2:11concrete [1] - 126:12conduct [1] - 83:3conducted [1] - 155:24confidential [1] - 55:10confirm [1] - 157:16confirmed [2] - 45:15,

157:11connect [1] - 157:24connected [2] - 93:8,

145:18connection [5] - 151:24,

151:26, 153:11, 157:24, 157:26

Connolly [3] - 45:13, 45:14, 46:2

Constable [1] - 6:22Constabulary [1] - 6:12constant [1] - 156:25construction [1] - 70:14contact [13] - 40:12,

40:13, 40:21, 40:25, 54:26, 55:14, 59:20, 59:26, 59:27, 80:16, 92:1, 99:26, 132:30

contacted [5] - 40:15, 40:17, 40:23, 103:1, 126:3

contacts [2] - 4:7, 4:8contained [1] - 100:14container [1] - 148:10containing [2] - 86:20,

87:1content [2] - 33:19, 157:9context [1] - 92:2contingent [1] - 112:28continue [4] - 54:8,

81:20, 116:10, 160:25CONTINUED [2] - 2:1,

82:1continuously [1] - 117:19contract [7] - 69:2, 98:29,

99:25, 139:28, 139:30, 140:4, 140:6

contradict [1] - 143:3contradicts [1] - 143:11contribution [1] - 162:3control [8] - 4:11, 26:14,

33:9, 34:26, 35:11, 35:30, 100:24, 102:7

conversation [2] - 71:10, 84:18

conversations [3] - 82:20, 137:24, 148:3

convicted [14] - 4:23, 5:14, 24:10, 42:23, 42:25, 42:26, 42:28, 43:3, 43:8, 94:6, 94:16, 94:19, 132:22, 147:23

Cooley [3] - 67:27, 131:2, 131:7

cooperation [1] - 101:19cops [3] - 93:10, 155:30copy [1] - 155:8Cork [1] - 52:1Corps [3] - 112:30, 113:1,

113:3correct [79] - 3:24, 8:9,

8:10, 8:12, 9:3, 9:8, 9:25, 14:25, 14:26, 16:6, 17:23, 22:23, 23:10, 24:3, 24:4, 24:28, 26:10, 26:11, 27:13, 27:14, 28:11, 28:25, 36:18, 37:9, 40:9, 41:22, 42:27, 43:9, 49:4, 49:8, 53:8, 55:26, 56:8, 56:21, 56:28, 65:20, 70:16, 72:23, 73:6, 73:11, 73:15, 73:16, 74:22, 74:30, 75:13, 76:19, 76:27, 78:25, 78:27, 79:22, 82:12, 82:16, 82:28, 83:11, 83:25, 88:12, 90:27, 91:20, 93:29, 95:17, 98:22, 100:7, 101:28, 104:12, 107:25, 108:8, 108:14,

108:15, 109:1, 109:16, 109:18, 116:11, 120:11, 133:30, 134:26, 149:11, 158:11, 159:1, 160:4

correcting [1] - 100:8correctly [1] - 27:19Corrigan [191] - 8:9, 8:11,

8:13, 8:16, 8:21, 8:25, 9:24, 9:30, 10:18, 11:10, 12:12, 14:22, 16:5, 16:15, 16:18, 17:8, 17:29, 18:17, 18:23, 19:4, 19:8, 19:17, 19:24, 19:26, 20:2, 20:15, 20:21, 20:29, 21:6, 21:20, 22:4, 22:5, 22:11, 22:16, 22:24, 22:26, 23:3, 23:8, 23:11, 23:24, 25:1, 26:9, 26:13, 27:5, 27:9, 27:21, 27:28, 28:9, 29:8, 30:22, 31:19, 32:1, 32:9, 32:14, 32:20, 36:11, 36:20, 37:2, 40:2, 40:10, 40:14, 40:17, 40:23, 42:9, 44:3, 44:17, 44:22, 45:10, 45:13, 45:19, 45:23, 45:24, 45:26, 45:28, 45:30, 46:13, 46:19, 46:26, 47:12, 48:9, 48:27, 52:18, 52:19, 52:25, 52:28, 53:5, 53:18, 53:20, 53:22, 53:27, 53:30, 54:2, 54:11, 54:16, 55:6, 55:24, 55:28, 56:4, 56:6, 56:17, 56:30, 57:16, 57:26, 58:6, 59:8, 59:21, 60:3, 60:26, 60:29, 62:1, 64:4, 64:8, 64:12, 65:6, 65:7, 65:21, 71:11, 73:8, 73:10, 73:15, 73:26, 76:1, 76:2, 76:4, 77:21, 77:23, 77:27, 78:5, 78:29, 79:1, 79:16, 80:1, 82:15, 82:29, 83:25, 84:16, 85:23, 87:12, 88:7, 88:14, 88:24, 89:6, 89:9, 90:3, 91:8, 92:1, 92:11, 93:1, 93:4, 93:8, 95:16, 95:21, 95:24, 95:28, 95:30, 96:1, 96:8, 96:14, 96:27, 97:19, 97:21, 105:9, 105:13, 106:4, 106:6, 106:9, 106:11, 106:14, 106:16, 106:19, 106:22, 106:29, 106:30, 107:4, 107:14, 107:18, 107:23, 108:24, 121:18, 127:23, 129:20, 130:1, 132:3, 132:5, 132:6, 138:5, 138:6, 138:12, 141:27, 141:28

Corrigan" [2] - 53:9, 89:8

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

4

Corrigan's [7] - 9:9, 40:21, 54:26, 86:3, 91:11, 96:11, 130:4

Cory [22] - 26:22, 35:22, 52:30, 53:14, 53:17, 76:9, 76:20, 76:23, 76:30, 77:1, 77:6, 77:8, 77:9, 77:20, 78:1, 78:3, 78:26, 80:10, 107:20, 107:25

cost [1] - 147:8costing [2] - 124:22,

124:23counsel [4] - 81:11,

113:17, 150:23, 161:15counsellor [1] - 124:7count [3] - 23:14, 25:28,

27:23country [5] - 49:10,

63:30, 69:26, 91:3, 134:4

countryside [1] - 150:29County [2] - 62:18,

150:24coup [1] - 86:29couple [7] - 11:23, 49:16,

49:21, 63:11, 87:25, 118:15, 121:13

course [29] - 6:8, 12:3, 22:14, 24:26, 30:11, 41:2, 46:12, 48:1, 50:29, 56:26, 64:21, 71:25, 84:21, 86:24, 88:10, 93:15, 93:16, 97:12, 117:30, 122:22, 125:9, 128:5, 130:1, 132:21, 136:7, 138:21, 153:14, 155:29, 155:30

Court [1] - 24:11court [3] - 13:8, 105:4,

151:13courts [2] - 61:2, 144:14cousins [1] - 160:15cover [7] - 81:1, 117:26,

118:25, 126:29, 127:4, 127:11, 140:30

covered [3] - 78:13, 81:2, 147:15

covert [1] - 110:15crash [1] - 115:21crazy [1] - 136:14cred [1] - 106:19credibility [9] - 2:7, 2:30,

3:2, 7:19, 7:26, 97:4, 97:9, 106:16, 140:23

Credit [1] - 122:13credit [1] - 122:17cried [1] - 149:23crime [1] - 146:25Crime [1] - 148:29crimes [1] - 5:14criminal [1] - 145:18criminals [1] - 137:15cross [4] - 1:7, 81:20,

133:9, 161:15Cross [1] - 26:26CROSS [2] - 2:1, 109:5Cross-Border [1] - 26:26

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cross-examination [2] - 1:7, 81:20

cross-examine [1] - 161:15

CROSS-EXAMINED [2] - 2:1, 109:5

cross-referenced [1] - 133:9

crucial [1] - 62:16crying [1] - 149:23Customs [18] - 98:9,

115:2, 143:28, 144:7, 144:10, 144:23, 145:4, 145:6, 145:13, 145:24, 145:29, 146:1, 146:3, 146:28, 146:29, 146:30, 147:3, 153:16

cuttings [1] - 61:20Céilí [21] - 23:5, 30:11,

30:28, 31:30, 32:11, 32:21, 32:24, 36:14, 47:19, 47:20, 50:2, 50:13, 50:26, 50:28, 51:5, 51:15, 52:4, 52:6, 57:27, 63:15, 76:21

DDaily [1] - 126:11daily [1] - 10:14damage [1] - 90:3danger [4] - 102:21,

110:5, 134:21, 144:3dare [1] - 103:2date [43] - 8:21, 8:23, 9:1,

9:14, 9:15, 9:17, 9:19, 9:22, 9:23, 9:26, 9:29, 10:30, 16:10, 23:17, 24:9, 24:24, 24:26, 24:27, 24:29, 36:19, 42:28, 43:6, 48:30, 49:2, 49:9, 49:11, 68:25, 68:28, 69:17, 69:19, 70:5, 71:14, 78:9, 78:16, 87:24, 91:4, 91:5, 91:16, 115:6, 117:17, 131:9

dates [20] - 16:9, 22:28, 23:1, 32:16, 49:19, 66:25, 67:4, 68:27, 69:25, 70:18, 70:19, 72:30, 90:29, 91:15, 115:6, 118:19, 121:21, 125:29, 125:30

dates.. [1] - 121:21DAY [1] - 162:10day's [1] - 112:8day-to-day [1] - 10:12days [10] - 36:28, 38:23,

39:29, 83:30, 86:14, 137:25, 139:6, 140:3, 156:20, 160:19

DB [1] - 51:8dead [14] - 59:29, 65:22,

65:29, 71:8, 85:16, 87:9, 104:27, 115:20, 120:20, 128:15, 128:16, 137:24, 139:15, 140:25

deal [3] - 14:9, 83:20, 162:1

dealer [1] - 153:20dealer/smuggler [1] -

158:19dealers [2] - 153:14,

153:15dealing [8] - 2:19, 4:6,

10:14, 125:23, 137:13, 153:14, 156:22, 160:1

dealings [2] - 41:13, 105:27

dealt [1] - 157:4death [2] - 63:16, 65:8debrief [9] - 10:22, 62:7,

63:8, 64:14, 160:12, 160:14, 160:17, 160:19, 160:28

debriefed [2] - 115:26, 116:4

debriefing [2] - 115:17, 160:10

debriefs [1] - 63:4debt [2] - 122:18, 123:4deceased [1] - 82:9DECEMBER [2] - 1:1,

162:11December [5] - 42:26,

58:7, 58:13, 60:9, 119:14

decent [1] - 62:18decided [1] - 124:26decision [1] - 134:19decorating [1] - 116:29decorators [1] - 117:1defence [4] - 13:9, 13:17,

13:25, 34:1Defence [1] - 100:10definite [1] - 154:8definitely [3] - 67:15,

90:21, 130:3degree [1] - 14:6deleted [2] - 149:29,

150:4deleted] [6] - 112:4,

113:4, 126:30, 127:6, 127:7, 149:23

deliberately [2] - 135:29, 136:5

demean [1] - 128:12demobbed [4] - 115:4,

115:9, 115:10, 116:13denied [2] - 104:23,

104:28deny [2] - 104:25, 157:16depot [1] - 111:24Derek [2] - 143:25, 144:1Derry [5] - 3:17, 3:26, 4:6,

4:20, 148:12describe [4] - 29:11,

37:7, 104:11, 133:28described [6] - 6:22,

7:28, 8:2, 23:25, 68:17, 69:10

destroying [2] - 16:6, 16:16

detached [1] - 118:11detail [4] - 37:3, 71:29,

71:30, 72:7detailed [1] - 15:23details [8] - 68:6, 68:8,

72:2, 72:4, 74:29, 94:14, 130:28, 134:8

Detective [4] - 25:20, 64:7, 64:11, 147:12

detective [1] - 149:8detectives [5] - 25:17,

25:27, 27:17, 28:1, 28:20

detonate [1] - 130:22detonation [1] - 16:26develop [2] - 111:7, 111:8development [1] - 130:17developments [1] -

142:15device [8] - 135:6, 135:7,

135:13, 137:17, 137:19, 140:23, 153:8

devices [3] - 124:13, 130:10, 148:5

DHQ [1] - 139:16DHSS [1] - 110:15Diamonds [1] - 119:9dicker [3] - 84:4, 84:5,

84:8dickers [1] - 84:12difference [2] - 28:12,

160:9different [25] - 2:17, 4:23,

6:17, 30:15, 40:19, 48:6, 52:13, 59:20, 65:16, 77:5, 83:6, 107:21, 108:11, 112:6, 112:7, 121:30, 133:8, 135:22, 136:11, 136:15, 144:9, 145:15, 145:27, 153:13

differently [4] - 7:3, 28:4, 95:11, 144:18

difficult [2] - 18:19, 106:8difficulty [1] - 15:23dinner [1] - 75:7direct [6] - 48:8, 65:25,

73:7, 73:11, 73:12directly [1] - 143:3disagree [2] - 58:1, 58:2disappear [1] - 3:19disappeared [4] - 18:6,

18:10, 37:1, 57:14disapproval [1] - 66:20discharge [3] - 114:24,

114:26, 115:7discharged [1] - 116:9discovered [1] - 24:12discredit [3] - 7:15, 99:4,

151:12discuss [3] - 33:16, 35:1,

35:2discussing [1] - 141:18dispute [2] - 36:20,

100:15distance [1] - 67:12distinctive [1] - 30:3distinguished [2] - 6:11,

7:5DNA [1] - 157:23

dole [3] - 110:16, 119:4, 119:5

domain [1] - 100:3Dominic [1] - 96:25Donaldson [14] - 61:26,

90:8, 90:25, 91:16, 91:17, 91:26, 92:9, 92:12, 92:19, 92:29, 93:6, 93:7, 95:8, 95:13

done [23] - 4:24, 7:11, 7:12, 10:24, 34:11, 35:7, 38:6, 46:24, 54:16, 61:17, 88:28, 98:30, 103:20, 117:22, 120:25, 129:10, 132:28, 137:27, 141:3, 141:7, 143:8, 144:14, 149:19

door [2] - 122:9, 160:13double [5] - 10:2, 11:25,

44:14, 79:23, 79:24doubt [4] - 10:21, 55:25,

57:3, 95:28down [50] - 6:12, 7:13,

7:27, 11:6, 11:12, 13:17, 13:24, 14:10, 24:9, 33:30, 37:3, 38:16, 39:15, 41:24, 41:28, 48:29, 57:8, 57:13, 63:12, 64:1, 65:13, 65:15, 74:5, 76:25, 83:29, 85:7, 87:16, 91:24, 91:25, 93:22, 93:28, 100:7, 115:30, 120:23, 121:27, 126:11, 126:12, 126:13, 131:25, 131:26, 132:30, 143:6, 146:18, 149:10, 150:27, 151:4, 156:30, 157:4, 158:2, 158:26

Down [1] - 160:29Doyle [2] - 158:19, 158:21Dozens [1] - 72:14drafts [2] - 33:3, 33:5drinker [2] - 50:14, 50:24drive [19] - 32:20, 51:17,

51:24, 51:30, 72:19, 122:3, 123:14, 123:16, 124:4, 131:12, 133:22, 136:27, 136:28, 137:20, 150:21, 150:29, 152:29, 160:11, 160:13

driver [3] - 41:14, 51:30, 66:2

driver's [1] - 137:21driving [11] - 23:26,

30:29, 39:3, 52:10, 123:14, 124:6, 127:17, 136:19, 136:22, 136:23, 136:24

dropped [1] - 68:11drove [12] - 39:2, 41:14,

50:6, 50:18, 52:1, 53:24, 62:3, 68:8, 68:12, 72:15, 115:24, 159:22

Drug [5] - 2:23, 2:24, 98:14, 98:15, 148:28

drug [5] - 2:26, 153:14,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

5

153:15, 153:20, 158:19drugs [3] - 145:17,

146:25, 147:16Dublin [6] - 24:11, 51:30,

86:29, 152:23, 159:19due [4] - 6:8, 12:3, 26:26,

64:21dug [1] - 131:13dump [3] - 153:4, 153:7,

159:21dumps [2] - 5:28, 5:29Dundalk [59] - 8:18, 9:13,

10:7, 10:18, 11:1, 11:30, 17:29, 18:29, 23:26, 24:2, 24:5, 25:21, 27:8, 28:9, 30:14, 30:30, 32:21, 34:10, 34:19, 34:29, 36:26, 38:16, 40:12, 40:29, 42:1, 50:20, 51:7, 51:10, 53:6, 62:3, 73:19, 76:10, 76:18, 78:6, 79:10, 82:9, 83:16, 88:11, 95:1, 96:15, 96:24, 104:20, 104:22, 105:24, 106:8, 106:13, 108:2, 117:28, 120:30, 121:27, 124:14, 129:22, 130:18, 131:16, 135:15, 153:3, 158:2, 159:21

DURACK [11] - 109:5, 109:7, 113:20, 113:25, 113:29, 114:6, 119:22, 157:9, 161:2, 161:6, 161:10

Durack [3] - 109:8, 157:3, 157:7

during [3] - 3:14, 22:19, 128:4

duties [1] - 112:24duty [3] - 89:25, 97:14,

106:11

Eearly [7] - 71:15, 75:8,

90:30, 118:30, 134:25, 135:1

earshot [1] - 138:14easier [3] - 160:30,

161:12easiest [2] - 15:28,

142:19easily [1] - 140:12easy [3] - 49:4, 122:12,

145:20eat [1] - 112:8eaten [1] - 129:6Edinburgh [1] - 160:18edited [1] - 87:4editor [5] - 13:6, 13:26,

104:6, 104:16, 155:27editorial [5] - 26:14, 33:9,

34:26, 35:11, 35:30Education [2] - 110:12,

111:5education [1] - 111:14

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effect [4] - 6:13, 19:3, 69:26, 95:21

effectively [2] - 11:25, 89:24

ego" [1] - 61:14eight [2] - 59:29, 81:18eighties [2] - 127:23,

130:7either [13] - 15:27, 18:8,

26:7, 29:4, 32:2, 57:23, 73:13, 74:6, 78:14, 90:30, 108:17, 120:26, 155:19

elaborate [2] - 15:25, 15:26

element [1] - 110:5eleven [4] - 81:4, 81:6,

84:25, 84:26elsewhere [1] - 143:18emerged [1] - 135:28employed [1] - 145:13employers [7] - 60:28,

60:30, 61:3, 62:5, 62:21, 100:4, 108:30

encounter [1] - 24:5encountered [4] - 24:2,

25:1, 25:5, 31:4end [7] - 12:18, 90:30,

98:12, 102:5, 125:16, 145:11, 151:9

ended [1] - 144:26England [8] - 4:8, 5:29,

10:23, 13:5, 115:29, 137:8, 153:20, 155:29

English [3] - 13:26, 36:1, 36:3

enormous [1] - 11:22entitled [1] - 120:16equally [1] - 142:1escape [1] - 24:12Escort [2] - 122:8, 123:10escort [1] - 110:3especially [2] - 6:18,

144:28essentially [1] - 159:14establish [1] - 64:30establishment [1] -

108:29Eurodisney [15] - 69:1,

69:6, 69:20, 70:14, 70:17, 71:6, 71:13, 71:22, 71:23, 71:26, 72:26, 124:20, 125:27, 125:30, 134:24

Europa [1] - 150:3evening [2] - 135:9,

135:11event [1] - 120:9events [3] - 19:16, 73:4,

159:26eventually [1] - 3:28Everbody [1] - 137:11everywhere [2] - 36:27,

136:28evidence [108] - 2:7, 2:8,

2:20, 2:21, 2:29, 3:1, 4:15, 5:6, 5:9, 5:17, 5:25, 6:4, 6:12, 7:19,

7:22, 8:1, 8:6, 8:7, 15:3, 15:6, 15:11, 15:15, 15:27, 16:6, 16:16, 18:10, 18:24, 18:26, 18:29, 19:3, 19:7, 19:10, 23:7, 24:20, 26:2, 32:6, 32:8, 39:18, 47:20, 47:30, 48:1, 48:2, 48:8, 48:21, 48:27, 49:21, 49:29, 50:16, 50:27, 51:16, 54:25, 55:22, 56:5, 56:16, 57:25, 57:26, 58:28, 59:3, 59:8, 64:22, 64:27, 64:30, 65:25, 65:30, 68:20, 70:24, 73:14, 73:17, 75:16, 77:5, 77:15, 77:16, 81:3, 81:13, 82:21, 82:26, 82:28, 83:1, 83:7, 83:13, 84:21, 84:24, 86:19, 92:10, 92:19, 93:3, 95:15, 101:20, 105:1, 105:2, 105:3, 105:7, 105:8, 105:11, 105:12, 106:3, 106:28, 108:10, 108:11, 108:16, 108:17, 146:23, 149:7, 154:17

exact [23] - 9:1, 9:15, 9:17, 9:22, 9:26, 16:3, 16:10, 28:14, 29:19, 39:16, 42:28, 71:14, 78:14, 87:24, 89:19, 91:5, 91:6, 91:16, 116:16, 118:19, 125:29, 128:17, 148:24

exactly [7] - 9:19, 22:28, 43:4, 89:2, 89:14, 105:21, 117:4

examination [4] - 1:7, 81:20, 161:30, 162:8

examine [1] - 161:15EXAMINED [2] - 2:1,

109:5example [8] - 3:9, 21:20,

21:25, 22:10, 22:19, 22:27, 45:7, 45:9

examples [8] - 8:3, 21:8, 21:9, 21:10, 21:26, 21:28, 23:8, 36:11

Excise [2] - 98:9, 146:4exciting [5] - 109:20,

109:25, 110:5, 159:25, 159:29

excuse [3] - 110:18, 114:26, 123:2

executed [1] - 143:5exist [2] - 69:23, 140:3existed [1] - 140:4exits [3] - 126:12, 126:13expected [1] - 109:20expecting [2] - 68:7,

125:2expenses [1] - 100:30expensive [1] - 101:13experience [3] - 45:29,

85:3, 85:10

experiences [1] - 91:28experimented [1] -

130:10expertly [1] - 137:27explain [8] - 45:16, 45:18,

59:22, 59:24, 60:2, 66:28, 116:24, 139:20

explaining [1] - 45:17explanation [8] - 7:4,

34:21, 34:25, 35:28, 46:9, 46:12, 60:5, 97:13

explicit [1] - 137:23exploded [2] - 119:17,

119:18explosive [2] - 153:7,

153:8explosives [7] - 19:20,

43:8, 88:29, 131:4, 150:17, 153:5, 156:19

exposed [1] - 156:11Express [3] - 69:2, 69:17,

69:21expressed [3] - 12:20,

90:6, 90:7extant [1] - 132:7extra [2] - 22:21, 111:5extradition [1] - 96:25extraordinary [1] - 27:11extreme [1] - 134:20extremely [1] - 93:26eye [1] - 28:21Eye' [2] - 130:12, 130:19eyes [1] - 9:27

Ff-ing [1] - 53:25fabricating [1] - 135:29faces [3] - 110:12,

110:24, 114:11facing [1] - 110:15fact [21] - 5:8, 34:14,

34:28, 36:4, 44:30, 45:4, 45:18, 46:20, 58:22, 58:23, 68:21, 82:8, 100:9, 130:7, 132:7, 138:18, 151:24, 156:13, 158:7, 158:8, 158:27

factory [15] - 37:20, 39:24, 46:17, 46:21, 46:27, 47:14, 117:5, 117:20, 118:6, 118:16, 118:22, 148:14, 149:12, 153:26

facts [3] - 6:24, 7:2, 158:23

factually [1] - 72:29fair [12] - 17:18, 19:5,

28:24, 48:24, 55:20, 96:4, 98:23, 100:5, 101:15, 105:18, 107:4, 121:11

FAIR [1] - 91:18fairly [5] - 89:28, 100:23,

103:7, 103:9, 110:7fairness [2] - 18:23, 19:8fallouts [1] - 143:30

false [3] - 5:21, 108:23family [7] - 69:20, 116:28,

116:30, 117:1, 118:28, 119:3, 125:6

famous [1] - 139:10fantasist [11] - 6:13, 6:20,

6:21, 6:23, 7:6, 7:28, 8:3, 61:15, 99:3, 136:1, 157:18

fantastic [2] - 61:21, 61:23

far [3] - 6:8, 104:8, 143:26fascinating [1] - 10:17fast [1] - 136:8fat [3] - 29:26, 29:28,

29:29father [5] - 114:30, 115:2,

116:29, 117:14, 118:13father's [3] - 116:26,

117:11, 117:15fault [2] - 4:14, 147:30February [2] - 58:16,

119:7Fein [1] - 124:7fellas [1] - 151:5felt [1] - 55:14fertiliser [1] - 38:3fertilizer [1] - 130:11few [19] - 1:9, 14:23, 40:5,

41:8, 50:22, 50:23, 52:17, 57:9, 71:9, 93:10, 94:25, 99:28, 109:9, 110:29, 131:13, 132:1, 135:14, 147:7, 156:20

field [1] - 35:16filling [1] - 134:3finally [1] - 36:14finance [1] - 118:8Financial [1] - 148:29fingerprint [1] - 38:6fingerprints [15] - 36:30,

37:26, 39:27, 41:27, 42:7, 43:18, 43:21, 43:24, 43:25, 43:29, 44:2, 105:28, 132:12, 132:14

finish [1] - 18:27finished [2] - 36:23,

144:26Fintan [24] - 23:5, 30:11,

30:27, 31:30, 32:11, 32:21, 32:24, 36:14, 47:18, 50:1, 50:13, 50:25, 50:28, 51:5, 51:15, 52:4, 52:5, 52:11, 57:27, 63:14, 76:21, 92:3, 136:18, 137:28

fire [3] - 70:8, 70:11, 130:22

firing [8] - 15:5, 15:13, 15:14, 15:27, 112:5, 112:6, 130:17, 135:8

first [35] - 8:15, 8:21, 9:23, 10:15, 11:10, 17:28, 19:18, 20:11, 23:11, 23:12, 23:16,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

6

23:18, 23:19, 23:20, 23:21, 23:24, 40:3, 43:2, 47:29, 49:5, 49:17, 52:10, 64:27, 65:1, 65:4, 71:5, 71:11, 72:12, 94:16, 104:24, 122:24, 137:9, 137:11, 142:24, 142:25

five [7] - 13:16, 20:6, 29:15, 79:14, 126:23, 161:8

five-five [1] - 29:15fixed [1] - 124:10Flanagan [11] - 6:28, 7:1,

99:2, 134:29, 135:17, 156:21, 157:11, 157:13, 157:28, 158:24, 158:25

flash [2] - 130:12, 135:16flashing [1] - 122:24flat [1] - 101:13Flats [1] - 70:10flew [1] - 126:9flick [3] - 123:16, 123:18,

137:20floppy [1] - 148:16flow [1] - 13:30fly [3] - 126:7, 160:17,

160:18follow [3] - 12:12, 12:14,

90:15followed [3] - 17:1, 52:18,

106:11FOLLOWING [1] - 162:10following [7] - 3:6, 17:28,

26:21, 32:19, 53:1, 66:19, 102:16

FOLLOWS [4] - 1:2, 2:2, 82:1, 109:5

follows [1] - 3:10FOR [1] - 81:24Force [5] - 26:20, 58:15,

59:30, 115:19, 147:12Forces [2] - 3:29, 112:28forces [1] - 125:20Ford [1] - 122:8forest [1] - 131:11forget [1] - 155:17forgot [2] - 155:18,

155:19form [4] - 55:19, 123:26,

136:30, 137:1former [8] - 2:7, 6:11, 7:5,

13:6, 13:25, 60:28, 61:2, 108:30

forth [1] - 153:12fortunately [1] - 58:3forward [3] - 61:1, 87:8,

87:10four [3] - 80:21, 142:14,

153:23four-pack [1] - 153:23France [1] - 145:10fraud [1] - 4:25Fraud [2] - 155:1, 155:12Frazer [2] - 91:19, 91:20Freddie [2] - 85:24, 86:2free [1] - 139:26frequency [1] - 130:20

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frequented [1] - 50:10frequenting [1] - 51:13frequently [1] - 99:27FRIDAY [1] - 162:10Friday [2] - 91:10, 92:19friend [49] - 8:8, 8:9, 8:11,

17:29, 19:24, 20:8, 20:14, 20:17, 22:3, 36:29, 37:1, 39:6, 39:14, 39:15, 39:17, 39:30, 41:23, 41:29, 42:6, 42:8, 43:17, 43:23, 43:27, 45:22, 45:26, 45:27, 56:9, 59:1, 73:10, 73:24, 73:25, 74:29, 75:24, 75:25, 75:27, 77:17, 77:27, 77:30, 78:28, 84:19, 89:7, 95:16, 95:25, 96:9, 107:17, 108:12, 132:6, 136:27, 153:20

Friend [2] - 13:30, 35:21friend" [4] - 21:7, 56:3,

74:24, 132:6friend' [2] - 40:2, 89:5friend's [1] - 38:18friendly [3] - 95:22,

97:10, 127:23friends [1] - 146:9front [3] - 138:5, 138:25,

151:5FRU [2] - 102:17, 115:18full [7] - 6:24, 7:2, 97:29,

119:8, 148:10, 158:12, 158:23

full-time [1] - 97:29fully [1] - 35:26FULTON [1] - 2:1Fulton [4] - 26:22, 26:27,

86:28, 102:18fun [2] - 111:27, 111:28fundamental [1] - 89:25funny [1] - 125:6furious [2] - 46:26, 46:28future [2] - 13:9, 34:1

GGaelic [1] - 51:5gain [4] - 60:16, 61:11,

90:16gained [1] - 60:15Gallagher [1] - 73:2Gangs [1] - 69:6garage [6] - 37:26, 43:21,

124:29, 134:3garda [16] - 15:4, 15:5,

19:1, 26:15, 26:29, 28:23, 34:9, 55:18, 96:28, 106:1, 106:24, 131:4, 131:9, 132:1, 153:3, 153:25

Garda [64] - 5:4, 8:8, 12:8, 15:16, 22:6, 23:15, 23:26, 24:2, 24:5, 24:19, 25:2, 25:6, 25:21, 26:20, 26:23,

27:8, 28:9, 30:30, 31:15, 32:4, 33:6, 34:19, 34:29, 36:4, 37:13, 37:15, 37:16, 37:21, 45:10, 45:15, 45:20, 45:28, 53:4, 53:5, 53:6, 54:10, 54:18, 54:23, 55:6, 57:21, 58:7, 58:14, 58:18, 59:18, 59:20, 59:25, 59:26, 60:4, 60:9, 62:16, 65:18, 68:2, 76:16, 79:13, 82:9, 85:5, 88:11, 92:25, 102:2, 105:24, 108:1, 109:8, 113:17, 155:1

Gardai [1] - 46:16Gardaí [4] - 46:20, 47:14,

106:8, 106:14gathering [3] - 110:26,

140:18, 145:14general [3] - 9:16, 92:21,

146:25General [1] - 12:29generally [1] - 75:4gentleman [6] - 11:11,

28:29, 95:9, 117:14, 122:25, 143:1

gentlemen [1] - 94:15Gerry [3] - 109:17, 113:7,

115:17ghost [6] - 12:23, 33:22,

34:28, 34:30, 35:10, 73:2

Gibson [4] - 92:23, 92:30, 93:4, 93:8

Gillans [1] - 69:9given [30] - 2:7, 4:29, 5:6,

5:20, 6:30, 7:20, 16:28, 17:3, 20:29, 56:16, 61:13, 63:14, 65:17, 68:20, 72:26, 77:22, 78:8, 81:3, 81:4, 81:14, 87:19, 95:8, 95:12, 106:28, 112:1, 122:6, 122:7, 136:3, 156:13, 156:23

gleaned [1] - 145:22gloves [4] - 37:28, 37:30,

38:1, 132:13goodness [1] - 146:6Gough [2] - 152:30,

159:22GPS [1] - 131:1granddaughter [1] -

132:29gravel [1] - 50:5great [9] - 12:21, 13:22,

16:9, 29:17, 85:16, 107:1, 107:2, 140:19, 140:23

Great [1] - 12:29greatest [2] - 14:12, 35:2Greg [1] - 155:27Grenadier [1] - 112:29grievance [2] - 60:27,

60:29

grinder [1] - 39:26grinders [1] - 158:15grinding [2] - 37:30, 38:2groceries [1] - 133:21ground [4] - 18:18, 18:25,

82:22, 83:8group [4] - 4:18, 4:19,

27:10, 110:23guaranteed [1] - 144:29guard [16] - 10:7, 10:18,

11:1, 11:30, 31:9, 35:15, 55:6, 55:28, 56:13, 68:5, 97:14, 106:26, 109:23, 110:2, 112:24, 112:26

guarded [1] - 112:25Guards [5] - 60:6, 60:7,

60:8, 64:5, 112:29guards [21] - 20:16, 22:7,

24:12, 29:22, 31:2, 31:8, 31:10, 36:24, 39:24, 39:25, 43:7, 47:3, 68:8, 72:6, 106:21, 131:25, 132:1, 151:14, 151:17, 151:18, 152:25

gullibly [1] - 61:27gun [2] - 10:13, 123:21gunmen [2] - 70:8, 70:9gutter [2] - 104:8, 104:11guy [21] - 42:15, 53:25,

67:27, 68:3, 68:10, 88:20, 97:17, 113:4, 124:30, 126:13, 131:14, 137:8, 137:9, 139:15, 147:23, 151:17, 153:20, 158:18, 159:23

guys [3] - 146:5, 146:10, 152:24

Hhacking [3] - 104:4,

104:5, 104:7hair [2] - 30:1, 30:2half [4] - 81:4, 81:6,

84:25, 84:26hand [4] - 50:5, 122:9,

122:21, 154:8handed [4] - 14:19, 88:9,

102:20, 153:24handle [1] - 146:30handled [9] - 7:9, 7:10,

14:7, 85:23, 96:29, 98:11, 98:12, 135:3

handler [18] - 11:3, 11:4, 11:6, 63:2, 63:3, 63:10, 86:3, 125:1, 136:3, 139:27, 146:1, 146:29, 153:24, 154:26, 156:14, 156:20, 157:20, 158:17

handlers [67] - 4:10, 6:5, 6:25, 7:12, 10:16, 10:20, 10:27, 11:8, 11:25, 12:7, 12:20, 31:16, 34:15, 46:25, 62:21, 62:22, 63:8, 63:26, 64:3, 88:23,

88:30, 89:8, 97:7, 105:21, 113:23, 117:27, 120:14, 120:27, 122:4, 123:12, 125:18, 127:9, 127:28, 128:16, 130:13, 130:17, 131:3, 131:19, 134:1, 134:2, 134:10, 134:14, 134:15, 134:18, 135:6, 136:7, 136:20, 137:5, 140:18, 140:29, 140:30, 141:3, 141:4, 141:8, 141:11, 142:11, 144:1, 144:18, 148:22, 152:19, 152:26, 159:2, 159:4, 159:9, 159:12, 159:13, 159:18

handling [1] - 128:20hands [4] - 91:25, 93:28,

126:14, 157:10hang [1] - 9:6hanged [2] - 50:17, 51:3hanging [5] - 9:12, 23:30,

96:26, 121:30, 153:15happy [1] - 115:1hard [9] - 35:19, 105:26,

117:13, 117:15, 120:7, 128:14, 136:8, 141:14, 146:8

hardened [1] - 144:12Hardy [2] - 129:2, 129:9Harkin [1] - 155:27harm [5] - 7:15, 13:9,

13:17, 13:25, 156:12Harnden [2] - 90:17,

90:18hatchet [1] - 98:30Haughey [4] - 70:1, 70:7,

70:10, 70:12Hawkey [1] - 69:8HAYES [1] - 1:6headed [2] - 66:20, 66:22headline [2] - 69:6, 156:6heads [3] - 84:1, 84:5,

84:8heads-up [3] - 84:1, 84:5,

84:8health [1] - 137:10hear [13] - 8:30, 15:2,

15:29, 16:1, 16:8, 21:30, 22:1, 38:22, 42:11, 69:27, 70:30, 86:9, 89:10

heard [52] - 7:2, 8:18, 8:29, 14:24, 15:3, 15:9, 15:11, 15:19, 15:20, 15:21, 15:22, 15:26, 15:30, 16:4, 16:15, 16:29, 16:30, 17:4, 17:30, 18:3, 19:6, 20:19, 22:29, 23:2, 30:11, 39:10, 40:3, 42:29, 50:12, 50:13, 50:27, 50:29, 56:9, 62:1, 65:28, 66:8, 69:2, 70:27, 78:16, 82:21, 84:28, 86:4, 89:5, 95:26, 96:5, 127:22, 128:19, 143:9, 154:23,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

7

154:24heart [1] - 146:6Heathrow [4] - 125:8,

125:9, 126:9, 126:15heavy [1] - 101:13height [1] - 29:19heights [1] - 29:17heinous [2] - 71:27,

71:28held [2] - 15:3, 25:21helicopter [4] - 115:20,

123:22, 124:1, 134:6help [6] - 29:23, 36:21,

55:18, 101:30, 110:11, 112:18

helped [19] - 8:19, 8:25, 9:28, 11:28, 19:24, 20:8, 20:14, 20:23, 22:6, 22:7, 39:15, 43:12, 56:19, 75:27, 77:17, 89:6, 99:4, 107:17, 108:12

helpful [1] - 154:8helping [4] - 11:30, 12:1,

35:14, 93:11Henry [4] - 26:12, 26:17,

103:21, 103:25Hermitage [2] - 158:18,

158:21Hero [1] - 72:14Hess [1] - 112:25HET [1] - 33:11high [1] - 147:26hijack [1] - 148:10hijacked [1] - 119:28hijacking [1] - 119:8Hill [1] - 120:21Hilltown [1] - 134:4himself [3] - 25:26,

106:19, 150:11hip [1] - 122:30hire [3] - 124:24, 133:28,

134:5hiring [2] - 124:22, 134:9historical [2] - 14:2, 14:3history [1] - 127:5hit [2] - 70:11, 86:30hit-squad [1] - 86:30hmm [1] - 155:3hold [4] - 42:16, 122:27,

145:5, 154:13hole [2] - 60:12, 143:6holes [1] - 57:13holiday [1] - 150:10holidays [1] - 150:11home [7] - 43:30, 70:8,

111:23, 111:26, 121:1, 121:2, 144:17

honest [1] - 102:5honestly [1] - 49:19hope [1] - 7:23hopeless [2] - 121:21,

125:30hoping [2] - 85:12,

123:17horrible [1] - 35:18hostile [1] - 155:27

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hotel [6] - 67:29, 87:24, 115:14, 150:26, 150:27, 150:28

Hotel [2] - 50:30, 150:4hotels [1] - 126:16hours [1] - 115:28house [27] - 38:18, 38:30,

42:15, 42:16, 42:17, 42:19, 43:15, 68:5, 73:18, 73:19, 73:21, 73:28, 74:9, 74:10, 74:25, 101:10, 118:7, 120:23, 121:2, 122:30, 126:25, 126:27, 132:29, 150:21, 150:22, 151:11, 158:21

House [26] - 23:5, 30:12, 30:28, 31:30, 32:11, 32:21, 32:24, 36:14, 47:19, 47:20, 50:2, 50:13, 50:26, 50:28, 51:5, 51:15, 52:4, 52:6, 57:27, 63:15, 76:22, 91:7, 92:3, 136:19, 137:28, 141:10

houses [5] - 42:18, 42:19, 137:22, 148:5, 160:2

HQ [1] - 126:3human [2] - 117:23,

140:20Hurst [4] - 85:26, 103:29,

103:30hurt [1] - 146:16

IIan [5] - 73:2, 85:26,

103:29, 103:30idea [5] - 16:20, 102:8,

109:22, 118:1, 134:14identified [4] - 5:4, 11:10,

11:25, 132:15identify [8] - 2:19, 6:4,

11:9, 49:1, 49:12, 93:18, 101:12

identifying [2] - 83:9, 113:12

imagine [1] - 162:1immediate [2] - 122:25,

124:2immunity [5] - 13:1,

13:11, 13:20, 13:21, 13:22

implausible [4] - 55:4, 55:5, 55:12, 55:13

implicate [1] - 156:14importance [3] - 48:15,

89:21, 89:23important [29] - 9:27,

35:15, 35:17, 35:18, 47:20, 47:21, 47:24, 47:28, 47:30, 48:1, 48:2, 48:6, 48:7, 48:10, 48:14, 48:18, 48:19, 48:21, 48:22, 48:23, 48:26, 84:22, 95:10, 128:9, 128:11, 141:25, 142:1, 142:5, 142:20

impossible [1] - 89:15impression [1] - 149:20imprisonment [1] -

119:14improper [1] - 113:17improved [1] - 114:7inaccuracies [3] - 66:25,

66:27, 68:26inaccurate [5] - 3:4, 3:25,

3:26, 4:30, 5:1incarceration [1] - 119:26incendiary [2] - 88:28,

130:10incident [8] - 30:26,

30:27, 62:11, 75:20, 86:12, 132:27, 141:10, 155:13

incidents [3] - 3:3, 5:9, 57:13

include [1] - 98:14included [1] - 17:22including [2] - 132:13,

132:15income [3] - 118:27,

122:26, 145:2inconsistency [2] - 28:5,

28:7inconsistent [1] - 77:25incorrect [12] - 29:5,

29:6, 29:7, 53:15, 76:23, 76:26, 76:28, 102:10, 108:3, 108:7, 108:17, 149:14

increasingly [1] - 135:29incriminating [1] - 6:4indeed [4] - 5:4, 5:5, 7:17,

85:27indicate [1] - 85:4indicating [1] - 83:13individual [3] - 6:14,

53:3, 53:4individuals [6] - 7:18,

7:25, 7:27, 28:27, 90:5, 94:1

induction [1] - 112:12infamous [1] - 139:10inform [1] - 10:16informant [16] - 4:10,

13:7, 13:27, 31:16, 55:22, 65:14, 104:19, 104:29, 135:17, 135:19, 142:23, 143:20, 144:27, 146:12, 147:15, 157:14

informant's [1] - 4:14informants [2] - 102:21,

128:20informants' [1] - 86:18information [134] - 2:26,

3:4, 3:16, 3:24, 4:29, 5:9, 5:13, 5:20, 5:27, 6:25, 6:30, 10:8, 10:17, 11:19, 12:7, 12:9, 12:13, 13:8, 13:25, 16:27, 17:2, 33:13, 33:23, 33:25, 33:27, 34:18, 34:20, 35:8, 38:26, 39:4, 39:7, 41:18, 48:10, 48:28,

51:12, 52:24, 53:7, 54:10, 54:12, 54:17, 54:18, 54:22, 54:23, 54:29, 55:10, 56:6, 56:14, 56:20, 56:23, 56:27, 58:11, 58:18, 58:24, 60:4, 60:15, 61:26, 62:1, 62:16, 63:10, 63:14, 64:3, 65:16, 65:21, 77:21, 77:22, 78:7, 79:25, 82:22, 83:8, 83:18, 83:23, 85:18, 87:11, 88:4, 88:6, 88:8, 88:24, 88:27, 89:26, 92:24, 92:25, 93:6, 95:8, 95:12, 97:23, 97:26, 103:4, 103:11, 110:8, 114:18, 120:28, 127:26, 128:9, 128:12, 132:19, 133:5, 133:8, 133:12, 134:29, 135:30, 136:3, 138:13, 141:19, 141:20, 141:26, 141:29, 142:5, 142:20, 143:14, 143:23, 144:8, 144:12, 144:17, 144:22, 145:22, 146:1, 146:4, 146:25, 147:14, 147:17, 147:19, 149:17, 149:21, 149:27, 154:9, 154:25, 156:14, 156:23, 159:15, 159:16, 159:24

informed [2] - 80:17, 80:18

informer [1] - 57:6informers [2] - 86:20,

87:1informing [2] - 58:19,

65:22informs [1] - 66:14ing [1] - 53:25ingratiate [3] - 108:28,

117:8, 124:9injunction [1] - 151:17Inn [1] - 129:4innocent [1] - 97:12inquiries [7] - 12:25,

13:15, 14:2, 14:3, 92:6, 104:2, 149:19

Inquiry [5] - 17:22, 17:25, 45:22, 93:23, 136:6

inquiry [8] - 12:26, 44:4, 44:22, 44:24, 45:1, 45:20, 46:14, 46:15

inquisitive [1] - 118:26inside [7] - 26:23, 37:26,

43:21, 72:15, 124:13, 154:8, 154:9

insofar [1] - 155:11instance [3] - 8:23, 11:10,

152:8instances [2] - 97:16,

158:10instructed [1] - 12:9instruction [1] - 137:23instructions [1] - 126:10insurmountable [2] -

59:22, 60:2

Intelligence [4] - 109:15, 112:30, 113:1, 113:3

intelligence [25] - 6:14, 8:2, 10:3, 11:13, 11:14, 11:15, 12:5, 34:24, 36:8, 41:1, 55:29, 62:4, 70:13, 91:29, 110:26, 111:14, 112:12, 126:3, 126:5, 128:20, 128:21, 128:23, 140:18, 145:14, 146:3

intelligence-gathering

[3] - 110:26, 140:18, 145:14

intelligent [1] - 79:27intended [1] - 139:2intention [1] - 78:12interest [6] - 51:23,

88:16, 90:6, 90:7, 92:22, 97:8

interested [5] - 36:3, 50:25, 62:9, 90:8, 90:12

interesting [1] - 64:22interests [1] - 102:1interfered [5] - 17:9,

18:19, 18:24, 45:1, 45:19

internal [2] - 133:18, 133:20

Internal [9] - 26:30, 27:2, 41:14, 65:11, 65:13, 72:22, 72:27, 133:16, 143:21

Internet [2] - 85:29, 86:2interpreted [1] - 42:8interpreting [1] - 8:12interrogate [7] - 25:9,

25:12, 25:16, 25:26, 27:29, 27:30, 86:7

interrogated [21] - 25:14, 25:20, 25:23, 25:24, 26:3, 26:5, 26:9, 26:13, 26:16, 27:8, 27:22, 28:8, 28:13, 28:16, 30:6, 32:2, 57:10, 65:11, 88:10, 129:19, 139:6

interrogates [1] - 129:28interrogating [6] - 27:24,

28:17, 28:22, 28:25, 28:28, 29:1

interrogation [7] - 25:10, 25:13, 25:15, 25:18, 25:30, 42:18, 102:20

interrupt [2] - 7:4, 13:30interview [1] - 32:15interviewed [2] - 26:22,

103:19introduce [2] - 52:25,

53:12introduced [6] - 52:28,

52:29, 53:5, 53:13, 53:16, 53:17

introduction [1] - 53:16investigate [1] - 79:25investigated [3] - 13:15,

27:21, 45:11investigating [1] - 149:22

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

8

investigation [16] - 13:23, 14:25, 16:15, 16:19, 17:9, 18:18, 18:20, 18:25, 19:11, 33:11, 44:17, 44:18, 44:25, 46:1, 155:24, 156:5

investigations [7] - 14:1, 14:4, 33:17, 33:29, 34:7, 141:7

investigator [1] - 28:24invited [2] - 113:27,

113:29involved [41] - 3:11, 9:5,

10:25, 16:25, 18:17, 18:25, 34:15, 44:3, 44:5, 44:18, 44:19, 68:22, 68:24, 71:23, 71:27, 71:28, 72:9, 72:22, 73:8, 73:12, 73:15, 74:29, 86:30, 92:9, 92:11, 93:1, 93:4, 94:21, 100:27, 100:28, 101:1, 102:18, 104:6, 109:15, 112:23, 119:7, 123:26, 137:7, 139:1, 145:20, 148:5

involvement [16] - 14:27, 15:2, 16:18, 16:20, 16:21, 16:22, 16:25, 23:2, 34:3, 60:9, 67:22, 72:8, 72:20, 96:11, 147:20, 159:25

involving [1] - 11:23IRA [197] - 3:12, 4:6, 5:5,

8:8, 8:11, 8:13, 8:14, 8:16, 8:22, 8:25, 8:27, 9:5, 9:24, 9:28, 10:8, 10:18, 11:1, 11:11, 11:28, 11:30, 12:2, 12:5, 12:16, 12:22, 14:23, 14:28, 16:1, 16:5, 19:15, 19:18, 19:28, 20:2, 20:21, 20:23, 20:25, 20:29, 21:6, 21:21, 21:28, 22:7, 22:10, 22:11, 22:17, 22:20, 23:9, 23:24, 26:20, 26:23, 26:28, 27:10, 31:9, 31:13, 31:14, 34:19, 34:29, 35:14, 36:5, 36:12, 36:21, 40:18, 40:21, 40:27, 40:28, 42:16, 43:11, 43:12, 43:13, 43:16, 45:1, 46:6, 46:19, 46:23, 46:29, 47:9, 47:12, 48:10, 48:28, 50:20, 51:9, 53:3, 53:7, 54:12, 54:23, 54:26, 55:8, 55:19, 55:29, 56:5, 56:13, 56:14, 56:21, 57:2, 57:6, 57:10, 57:14, 60:16, 60:17, 62:17, 65:21, 65:23, 69:6, 70:13, 76:12, 76:17, 78:4, 78:5, 79:4, 79:18, 79:20, 80:2, 80:17, 80:19, 81:2,

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81:3, 81:7, 82:16, 82:22, 82:29, 83:3, 83:8, 83:14, 83:24, 83:28, 84:10, 84:17, 84:25, 84:29, 85:7, 85:9, 85:10, 85:15, 85:17, 85:21, 86:6, 86:14, 86:19, 86:30, 87:6, 87:7, 88:21, 89:26, 91:28, 92:26, 93:14, 93:15, 94:10, 95:4, 96:12, 97:18, 102:3, 102:17, 104:19, 104:26, 104:28, 106:1, 106:2, 106:9, 106:10, 106:14, 107:1, 107:3, 107:30, 108:1, 120:2, 120:20, 122:1, 122:24, 123:5, 123:17, 123:19, 123:25, 124:15, 125:12, 127:24, 128:29, 129:25, 129:28, 130:18, 137:7, 143:16, 145:21, 145:23, 148:12, 150:17, 150:22, 151:15, 151:30, 152:14, 152:29, 153:11, 154:22, 158:14, 159:21, 159:22

IRA' [1] - 72:15IRA's [1] - 72:22Ireland [22] - 12:29, 13:6,

13:26, 38:19, 38:20, 38:21, 39:1, 70:20, 104:6, 109:26, 109:30, 113:7, 114:12, 114:20, 115:9, 116:7, 119:29, 126:17, 130:9, 140:6, 151:16, 160:21

Irish [8] - 30:13, 36:2, 50:14, 51:6, 64:11, 90:22, 99:6, 112:29

Irish-sounding [1] - 51:6Israeli [2] - 3:28, 152:27issue [3] - 44:2, 78:15,

81:13issued [2] - 86:14, 156:22issues [1] - 101:26Istanbul [3] - 3:27, 4:2,

4:3it'd [1] - 140:22item [2] - 147:28, 155:5items [3] - 151:22, 154:3,

158:4

Jjail [5] - 119:16, 119:21,

119:29, 120:3, 121:6jails [1] - 119:29January [1] - 99:6jeep [1] - 68:2Jeffrey [8] - 90:8, 90:25,

91:16, 91:17, 91:26, 92:11, 95:8, 95:13

Jerry [1] - 139:16jigsaw [2] - 141:22,

141:24Jim [1] - 73:2job [14] - 51:12, 70:13,

71:5, 84:6, 97:28, 97:29, 98:30, 117:5, 118:22, 133:20, 139:17, 140:23, 144:14, 159:30

jobs [4] - 46:6, 137:5, 137:6, 140:17

Joe [5] - 69:8, 69:30, 70:7, 127:13, 127:14

join [1] - 97:17joined [3] - 14:30, 109:9,

117:26Joseph [5] - 26:28, 27:3,

32:20, 42:11, 42:30journalism [1] - 104:9journalism" [1] - 104:12journalist [13] - 14:10,

14:13, 27:20, 90:22, 91:18, 91:21, 99:14, 103:7, 104:11, 156:1, 156:9, 156:10

journalist's [1] - 91:22journalists [3] - 13:5,

99:27, 99:28Judge [20] - 35:22, 52:30,

53:14, 53:17, 76:9, 76:20, 76:23, 76:30, 77:1, 77:6, 77:8, 77:9, 77:20, 78:1, 78:3, 78:26, 80:10, 107:20, 107:25

July [7] - 49:7, 49:11, 49:26, 66:23, 67:2, 156:2, 159:5

June [12] - 24:21, 25:22, 29:9, 30:25, 49:15, 49:27, 60:4, 70:5, 70:6, 70:17, 129:16, 158:13

KKeeley [64] - 2:4, 2:6,

5:10, 6:5, 8:7, 8:20, 8:27, 10:1, 12:28, 14:5, 14:21, 19:3, 20:25, 21:3, 23:20, 25:19, 33:4, 34:18, 44:12, 45:6, 45:30, 48:17, 53:8, 55:4, 57:24, 58:28, 60:2, 61:4, 61:17, 61:24, 65:16, 66:12, 66:27, 67:17, 68:17, 68:20, 71:3, 71:12, 71:29, 72:8, 72:11, 73:27, 74:18, 75:13, 77:15, 78:22, 79:27, 82:6, 82:8, 83:21, 84:22, 85:20, 89:16, 91:24, 92:8, 93:13, 94:1, 96:4, 100:3, 107:4, 108:11, 108:22, 109:3, 162:5

keeley [3] - 33:19, 47:21, 51:11

keep [7] - 10:10, 100:1, 113:10, 115:1, 128:8, 139:26

keeping [1] - 155:14Kentish [1] - 137:10kept [4] - 27:9, 56:11,

84:11, 114:8KEVIN [1] - 2:1Kevin [4] - 90:22, 90:24,

102:18, 127:11kick [1] - 120:7kicked [1] - 114:27kicking [1] - 131:29kill [4] - 57:12, 142:2,

142:3, 142:4killed [11] - 22:2, 64:25,

67:9, 102:19, 103:14, 115:20, 142:21, 142:23, 142:24, 143:2, 143:7

killing [1] - 75:20Kingscourt [2] - 68:13,

150:24knee [1] - 97:17knee-capped [1] - 97:17knock [1] - 21:2know.. [3] - 82:27,

120:26, 135:10knowing [3] - 7:1, 21:17,

140:16knowledge [12] - 18:15,

73:7, 73:11, 73:12, 81:8, 93:19, 93:21, 100:15, 100:16, 129:20, 139:9, 141:4

known [21] - 20:9, 55:8, 59:1, 80:26, 88:8, 94:14, 94:20, 95:6, 96:10, 97:6, 97:9, 101:14, 102:17, 123:29, 132:25, 135:16, 136:21, 136:26, 150:2, 155:9, 156:27

knows [1] - 42:22Kuwait [1] - 3:14

Llabour [1] - 146:7lady [1] - 127:7Lady [3] - 92:23, 92:30,

93:4landed [1] - 134:6landmark [1] - 101:14landmine [1] - 85:12language [1] - 9:6last [10] - 2:21, 13:16,

68:17, 68:19, 91:10, 92:19, 103:27, 129:10, 143:25, 162:3

late [6] - 53:1, 55:20, 75:7, 78:21, 127:23, 130:7

late-eighties [1] - 130:7lately [1] - 7:2launch [1] - 80:20launched [4] - 83:24,

84:10, 85:21, 119:18launder [1] - 148:20Laverty [3] - 32:13, 36:16,

162:8LAVERTY [2] - 113:16,

113:22law [1] - 125:5leaking [1] - 102:21

learn [3] - 64:27, 109:27, 121:25

learned [2] - 70:24, 71:8learnt [4] - 109:28,

121:18, 121:22, 121:25leave [10] - 1:9, 58:7,

58:13, 59:2, 60:8, 91:2, 111:16, 111:23, 112:14, 161:10

leaves [1] - 74:27leaving [1] - 19:22led [4] - 6:25, 44:26, 56:7,

86:21left [15] - 38:10, 50:5,

59:25, 59:30, 60:17, 63:30, 65:7, 68:16, 79:13, 82:12, 113:7, 126:8, 140:12, 150:26, 159:4

left-hand [1] - 50:5legal [8] - 12:23, 26:24,

60:30, 61:2, 92:5, 100:22, 100:26, 152:20

legitimate [1] - 60:27lend [2] - 124:14, 124:15less [1] - 128:13letter [2] - 12:30, 13:4level [3] - 28:23, 95:3,

114:6liar [3] - 57:28, 58:4,

61:15licence [2] - 59:9, 59:11lie [4] - 5:16, 8:6, 66:12,

66:15lied [5] - 5:20, 5:26, 6:1,

6:5, 7:22lies [8] - 7:30, 46:13,

46:15, 60:19, 60:20, 78:23, 107:7, 107:8

life [16] - 34:16, 35:8, 68:18, 68:19, 117:8, 117:23, 117:24, 134:20, 136:8, 136:12, 136:15, 140:20, 144:2, 146:15, 147:8, 156:9

lift [2] - 52:3, 133:22light [3] - 7:19, 125:11,

130:21likely [5] - 16:2, 19:14,

79:6, 84:10, 155:16Limerick [1] - 52:1line [1] - 15:13lines [2] - 12:26, 12:27link [2] - 48:27, 92:24linking [1] - 48:9liquor [1] - 148:14Lisdrum [1] - 118:10list [2] - 94:2, 98:1listen [3] - 40:28, 74:5,

131:9listened [2] - 53:22, 140:8listening [1] - 148:5lists [1] - 152:14lit [2] - 113:10, 114:8literally [1] - 2:25littered [1] - 140:25live [7] - 14:4, 100:30,

116:21, 116:25, 123:1,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

9

146:17, 148:8lived [2] - 52:12, 101:13Lives [1] - 72:15lives [1] - 146:11living [9] - 36:26, 38:14,

104:20, 118:3, 118:21, 131:16, 143:18, 144:27, 155:28

lo [1] - 158:20load [1] - 99:8loads [1] - 30:29loan [6] - 122:12, 122:14,

122:15, 122:16, 122:29, 123:2

local [2] - 71:6, 113:8location [1] - 131:19locations [1] - 130:25logical [2] - 138:21,

138:28London [12] - 87:24,

101:14, 124:28, 125:4, 126:7, 126:9, 135:7, 139:24, 147:24, 147:25, 153:13, 160:19

look [17] - 2:15, 23:5, 28:3, 31:23, 43:4, 70:19, 74:3, 74:8, 74:12, 79:25, 85:1, 95:11, 114:14, 122:24, 129:13, 129:29, 152:2

looked [5] - 39:17, 40:1, 40:25, 42:6, 125:6

looking [16] - 2:18, 30:18, 48:30, 51:22, 52:22, 103:28, 111:10, 113:12, 114:18, 133:24, 141:16, 152:13, 158:14, 158:30, 159:2, 159:12

Lord [5] - 24:10, 92:23, 92:29, 93:4, 93:8

lorries [1] - 148:10lorry [3] - 119:8, 119:28,

120:1Louth [1] - 62:18Louth/south [1] - 129:5love [2] - 13:10, 146:7loyalist [1] - 70:8luckily [2] - 68:8, 153:1ludicrous [1] - 31:18Luigi [2] - 3:11, 147:23lump [2] - 121:7, 121:9lunch [2] - 81:19, 82:8LUNCH [2] - 81:24, 82:1lying [5] - 8:4, 45:7, 45:8,

45:9, 106:15

Mmadness [2] - 31:18, 38:6Mafia [2] - 137:8, 147:23magazine [1] - 101:8Magellan [1] - 131:1Magilligan [1] - 110:4Maguire [8] - 104:16,

104:17, 105:2, 105:11, 105:14, 105:15, 105:17, 105:21

Mail [2] - 98:27, 99:22

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main [6] - 33:10, 40:11, 40:13, 57:14, 78:27, 86:29

Mains [1] - 90:19major [7] - 4:24, 33:18,

35:3, 86:29, 142:14, 147:14

makers [1] - 37:22man [33] - 11:9, 16:22,

21:28, 24:9, 26:30, 29:19, 31:22, 41:2, 42:11, 42:24, 57:20, 62:18, 65:3, 65:22, 72:13, 72:16, 79:27, 84:4, 95:1, 96:20, 104:15, 131:13, 132:21, 132:28, 142:21, 142:22, 142:23, 146:2, 147:22, 149:1, 151:13, 154:8, 156:27

Man [7] - 37:8, 38:26, 156:27, 156:28, 157:14, 157:20

man's [3] - 68:23, 68:24, 137:24

manner [1] - 34:4manual [2] - 114:15,

114:16March [15] - 17:27, 19:23,

20:1, 20:14, 20:29, 21:21, 21:29, 22:27, 23:6, 23:9, 32:19, 73:4, 73:18, 82:23, 87:12

marching [1] - 109:22market [4] - 36:1, 36:2,

36:3, 153:19maroon [1] - 122:8Marotta [5] - 3:11, 4:23,

147:23, 147:24, 148:18married [6] - 117:16,

117:17, 118:4, 118:21, 118:22, 121:1

Martindale [2] - 143:25, 144:1

massively [1] - 35:15material [1] - 3:18materialise [1] - 3:18materials [1] - 46:4matter [13] - 17:5, 22:8,

31:14, 44:8, 45:14, 46:2, 81:10, 90:17, 90:20, 90:23, 110:24, 133:2, 156:15

matters [3] - 15:24, 58:19, 130:26

Matthew [1] - 101:7May/June [1] - 52:3McDonald [14] - 26:12,

26:18, 26:19, 86:27, 87:2, 102:11, 102:16, 103:1, 103:3, 103:5, 103:17, 103:18, 103:19, 103:21

McGlinchey [1] - 96:25McMurray [2] - 130:15,

135:5meals [1] - 75:5mean [94] - 5:12, 10:10,

13:14, 17:6, 19:30, 23:14, 23:19, 28:29, 31:5, 31:8, 31:21, 35:13, 37:25, 38:4, 40:14, 41:1, 42:16, 42:22, 44:1, 46:6, 46:22, 46:23, 50:18, 51:6, 51:7, 54:21, 56:25, 58:22, 59:20, 59:24, 72:3, 75:4, 83:1, 83:2, 83:15, 83:25, 84:27, 85:1, 85:9, 86:15, 87:6, 89:3, 89:8, 89:13, 90:15, 91:27, 93:19, 94:19, 96:8, 97:26, 102:7, 104:10, 104:27, 105:22, 105:27, 106:22, 107:1, 108:8, 112:11, 114:18, 114:21, 114:29, 116:6, 121:30, 128:12, 128:13, 128:14, 128:29, 129:8, 129:27, 132:18, 132:30, 133:7, 133:9, 134:14, 135:6, 136:9, 137:6, 137:12, 137:16, 138:15, 138:16, 144:1, 146:18, 147:30, 149:16, 150:2, 150:20, 155:25, 156:4, 156:5, 156:6, 160:16

meaning [1] - 8:12means [4] - 83:9, 108:21,

122:26, 126:26meant [3] - 110:17, 140:7,

158:26meantime [1] - 147:13meat [6] - 117:5, 117:19,

117:21, 118:6, 118:16, 118:22

mechanic [1] - 125:5mechanism [7] - 15:5,

130:18, 134:13, 135:8, 136:30, 137:1

media [1] - 143:10meet [20] - 3:27, 4:2,

4:16, 23:11, 23:12, 23:18, 23:19, 23:21, 23:24, 26:29, 31:26, 51:26, 55:14, 90:28, 120:14, 126:6, 137:8, 142:13, 160:2

meeting [20] - 23:14, 31:20, 31:22, 31:29, 32:10, 47:17, 48:29, 49:12, 53:23, 64:15, 80:4, 80:6, 87:15, 91:17, 92:3, 115:22, 126:6, 142:11, 150:3

meetings [5] - 31:6, 31:21, 54:22, 88:1, 138:17

member [27] - 5:4, 5:5, 10:6, 11:12, 16:1, 16:4, 20:20, 20:25, 22:7, 31:13, 31:14, 31:15, 43:11, 50:20, 55:8, 59:18, 62:16, 69:20, 76:15, 78:4, 92:25,

102:17, 104:19, 107:30, 125:12, 135:4, 145:23

members [11] - 1:11, 1:16, 2:7, 3:27, 6:11, 8:1, 43:13, 43:15, 102:3, 109:15, 124:15

membership [1] - 18:9men [13] - 9:28, 27:10,

35:14, 40:29, 45:1, 59:29, 69:9, 84:26, 106:9, 107:1, 143:17, 150:19, 160:2

mention [13] - 34:9, 76:2, 76:4, 77:30, 81:11, 92:4, 93:8, 93:9, 96:17, 105:24, 113:20, 113:25, 139:8

mentioned [14] - 8:18, 10:20, 10:21, 19:25, 20:19, 34:11, 34:12, 62:8, 93:9, 109:17, 112:1, 113:20, 149:5, 160:8

mentioning [1] - 113:17Merchant [2] - 117:25message [2] - 36:29, 37:5met [33] - 3:2, 8:17,

23:23, 26:29, 27:4, 30:22, 30:26, 31:4, 31:5, 31:7, 31:19, 31:26, 32:1, 32:6, 32:9, 32:14, 32:20, 32:23, 32:25, 33:1, 59:17, 90:30, 91:13, 91:26, 95:25, 115:17, 115:23, 126:14, 145:23, 151:8, 152:21, 153:13

Metropolitan [1] - 99:1MI5 [48] - 10:22, 36:7,

62:7, 64:14, 69:13, 69:16, 87:14, 97:27, 98:7, 98:20, 100:23, 100:27, 100:28, 100:29, 101:3, 101:17, 101:19, 101:22, 102:1, 102:8, 124:12, 124:14, 125:17, 125:22, 125:26, 126:16, 126:19, 134:22, 134:27, 135:3, 137:17, 140:16, 140:17, 144:8, 144:9, 144:17, 144:18, 144:25, 145:25, 146:3, 146:20, 147:5, 147:18, 160:9, 160:14, 160:16, 160:17

Michael [1] - 109:7mickey [1] - 38:28Mickey [31] - 22:1, 37:6,

38:27, 38:28, 39:8, 39:19, 40:6, 40:12, 40:13, 40:15, 41:3, 41:8, 41:9, 41:10, 41:14, 41:18, 41:21, 43:17, 73:22, 74:2, 74:10, 74:13, 74:25, 75:12, 75:19, 76:15, 77:17, 84:18, 89:3, 107:16

microchips [3] - 148:10,

148:23, 148:25mid [1] - 127:23mid-to-late [1] - 127:23might [8] - 11:27, 18:2,

81:19, 87:3, 109:8, 131:27, 137:15, 146:7

Milan [2] - 147:24, 148:20mileage [1] - 134:8military [7] - 10:3, 11:13,

34:24, 36:8, 44:12, 125:23, 144:25

million [3] - 153:16, 153:18, 154:20

mind [3] - 81:12, 114:4, 138:29

mine [1] - 99:30Ministry [1] - 100:10minute [4] - 6:6, 33:18,

100:23, 145:5minutes [5] - 52:17,

53:23, 68:9, 81:18, 161:8

Mirror [1] - 126:11misinformation [2] -

99:18, 148:7mislead [3] - 76:30, 77:8,

77:9misleading [2] - 8:3,

136:6misled [4] - 77:1, 77:2,

77:10, 77:11misquote [1] - 103:2misrepresenting [1] -

104:13missed [2] - 70:9, 148:18missing [5] - 15:5, 15:28,

30:16, 30:18, 153:23missions [1] - 133:28Mitsubishi [1] - 119:9Mitty [6] - 6:20, 6:21,

6:22, 99:3, 136:2, 157:18

mix [1] - 38:3mixes [1] - 130:11mixing [1] - 156:19mixture [1] - 87:14modestly [1] - 72:14Mole [1] - 26:20mole [21] - 10:18, 11:1,

11:11, 12:8, 23:24, 26:23, 31:10, 33:6, 34:10, 34:19, 34:29, 40:18, 46:19, 46:29, 47:4, 47:5, 47:6, 47:10, 47:13, 56:27, 65:18

moles [1] - 46:23Molloy [8] - 105:29,

105:30, 106:3, 106:15, 106:18, 106:20, 106:22, 106:30

moment [5] - 6:10, 7:1, 75:18, 107:6, 161:24

moments [6] - 1:9, 14:23, 40:5, 41:8, 68:18, 68:19

Monday [2] - 2:21, 16:11money [20] - 97:24,

98:22, 111:5, 116:25, 118:29, 119:2, 121:9,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

10

121:12, 121:15, 122:7, 122:20, 122:22, 122:25, 125:3, 125:13, 145:8, 145:12, 148:20

monitored [2] - 140:10, 140:16

monotonous [1] - 109:25Monte [1] - 148:20month [9] - 49:1, 49:2,

49:5, 49:14, 62:28, 70:6, 91:6, 102:28, 142:12

months [19] - 20:6, 24:26, 49:16, 49:19, 49:22, 58:8, 59:10, 63:19, 63:24, 87:25, 87:26, 87:28, 88:11, 89:1, 103:28, 110:29, 113:2, 121:5, 129:16

Mooch' [8] - 19:14, 41:24, 52:22, 53:10, 53:29, 74:14, 86:10, 153:9

Mooch's' [1] - 96:9morning [13] - 1:4, 1:6,

2:4, 2:5, 16:11, 74:4, 81:3, 81:6, 83:24, 84:26, 93:10, 149:2, 161:13

mortar [3] - 94:12, 94:22, 140:20

mortars [1] - 150:18mortgage [1] - 118:9most [7] - 19:15, 30:15,

31:2, 74:1, 117:1, 117:24, 152:17

motel/hotel [2] - 115:22, 115:24

mother [1] - 120:23motorbike [5] - 15:4,

15:12, 15:13, 15:27, 18:5

mount [1] - 80:20mountains [1] - 3:13Mountains [2] - 131:2,

131:7Mountbatten [1] - 24:10move [4] - 36:10, 38:17,

115:11, 128:16moved [5] - 12:16, 36:27,

115:11, 125:22, 131:28MR [35] - 1:6, 2:2, 2:4,

13:29, 14:9, 14:21, 26:2, 27:28, 35:21, 35:26, 42:8, 53:14, 69:17, 75:12, 81:10, 81:22, 82:5, 87:23, 109:3, 109:5, 109:7, 113:20, 113:25, 113:29, 114:6, 119:22, 157:9, 161:2, 161:6, 161:10, 161:20, 161:26, 161:28, 161:30, 162:5

MRS [2] - 113:16, 113:22MS [2] - 161:17, 161:23MULVIHILL [1] - 161:17murder [31] - 19:18,

19:23, 20:7, 49:24, 56:7, 62:18, 67:2,

Page 176: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the …justice.ie/en/JELR/2011-12-15_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day...2011/12/15  · An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael

67:12, 67:13, 68:22, 68:23, 68:24, 70:25, 71:24, 71:27, 71:28, 71:30, 72:2, 72:4, 72:9, 72:17, 72:19, 72:20, 72:21, 73:13, 92:26, 130:14, 130:16, 135:5, 135:9, 143:1

Murder [1] - 26:27murdered [39] - 12:19,

24:28, 49:7, 49:9, 49:11, 49:26, 55:25, 56:1, 57:4, 58:8, 63:21, 63:22, 63:24, 63:26, 65:3, 66:9, 66:10, 66:11, 66:23, 67:4, 67:14, 67:18, 67:19, 68:25, 69:27, 70:7, 70:21, 70:22, 71:20, 73:6, 102:13, 120:19, 120:20, 136:8, 136:13, 143:27, 145:1, 146:16, 147:7

murderer [1] - 89:25murders [22] - 20:6, 23:6,

36:15, 73:8, 78:8, 79:11, 79:14, 86:28, 88:11, 89:1, 92:4, 92:8, 92:10, 92:22, 92:23, 92:29, 104:2, 107:12, 107:15, 127:20, 127:22, 129:21

Murphy [1] - 95:2music [2] - 50:14, 50:15must [14] - 15:17, 20:8,

33:23, 46:26, 68:15, 68:25, 79:20, 80:1, 88:16, 91:13, 151:18, 153:3, 153:25, 154:10

Myers [2] - 90:22, 90:24

Nnaked [1] - 137:11Nally [1] - 73:2name [46] - 4:20, 8:18,

11:6, 11:11, 11:12, 14:10, 14:13, 19:24, 26:23, 26:24, 31:3, 63:2, 63:9, 64:2, 76:3, 78:2, 91:11, 91:22, 91:25, 93:21, 93:25, 93:26, 105:16, 109:7, 113:18, 113:27, 114:1, 114:3, 115:3, 118:30, 124:8, 125:1, 127:11, 127:13, 139:8, 139:14, 139:22, 140:27, 150:20, 150:27, 156:29, 157:10, 157:21

named [7] - 4:2, 21:30, 38:27, 69:8, 70:12, 78:2, 91:8

names [18] - 4:15, 26:7, 63:11, 63:12, 64:1, 86:18, 86:20, 87:1, 87:8, 87:16, 87:20, 93:28, 102:21, 110:11, 110:14, 110:24, 113:23,

149:30naming [1] - 138:26narrow [1] - 24:9Narrow [19] - 8:24, 8:28,

9:2, 14:24, 15:2, 16:14, 16:19, 18:1, 18:4, 18:15, 19:4, 19:10, 20:12, 20:19, 21:11, 21:13, 22:8, 23:29, 121:29

nature [1] - 114:17Navy [2] - 117:25, 117:26near [1] - 134:4nearly [4] - 85:6, 106:6,

129:6, 151:6need [20] - 1:13, 2:15,

9:26, 34:30, 44:20, 52:3, 52:5, 59:25, 80:27, 84:1, 84:8, 91:15, 93:7, 101:12, 103:5, 103:9, 115:4, 122:15, 139:17, 155:6

needed [6] - 14:6, 51:29, 123:1, 139:23, 139:27, 153:21

needs [2] - 1:7, 100:7nerve [1] - 72:13nervous [1] - 68:6never [47] - 3:21, 12:15,

15:20, 15:21, 22:15, 33:2, 40:14, 40:25, 51:4, 51:29, 52:27, 54:11, 55:9, 62:12, 62:14, 65:12, 84:28, 85:25, 86:3, 87:6, 95:24, 96:2, 96:7, 102:14, 102:24, 102:25, 104:11, 118:19, 135:2, 137:18, 137:23, 138:29, 141:4, 141:8, 143:24, 144:8, 147:29, 148:7, 151:29, 153:8, 155:18, 155:30, 156:1, 156:8, 157:11, 157:14

New [1] - 158:14new [12] - 78:15, 114:14,

115:19, 118:11, 120:22, 127:13, 130:10, 130:17, 135:5, 153:7, 153:8

Newcastle [1] - 111:16Newry [24] - 2:27, 38:5,

38:14, 59:29, 69:10, 94:12, 94:23, 97:16, 107:2, 110:16, 110:17, 111:23, 116:21, 116:30, 117:24, 120:19, 120:21, 122:13, 124:7, 131:30, 133:7, 136:4, 147:14, 158:18

news [7] - 24:16, 35:12, 35:13, 65:28, 86:16, 104:6, 153:5

News [2] - 104:5, 104:16Newshound [2] - 69:28,

70:3newspaper [7] - 13:6,

13:26, 70:12, 98:25, 98:26, 99:7, 155:21

newspapers [10] - 61:18, 61:20, 61:21, 70:25, 70:28, 70:30, 98:23, 99:29, 113:8, 139:10

next [12] - 29:20, 30:7, 78:21, 111:13, 112:10, 112:11, 112:12, 126:4, 126:5, 135:11, 149:28

nice [2] - 117:14, 146:2nicer [1] - 160:27night [1] - 78:21nine [3] - 14:4, 112:15,

112:17nitpicking [2] - 41:7, 44:8Nobody [1] - 106:8nobody [8] - 12:15,

132:12, 136:25, 140:2, 150:30, 151:2, 151:7, 155:12

none [3] - 14:29, 21:26, 129:9

nonsense [3] - 40:28, 99:8, 102:14

normal [3] - 117:8, 122:23, 125:20

normally [2] - 81:18, 154:9

North [2] - 12:1, 93:10north [1] - 4:8Northern [17] - 12:29,

13:6, 13:26, 38:19, 104:6, 109:26, 109:29, 113:7, 114:11, 114:20, 115:9, 116:6, 119:29, 126:17, 140:6, 151:16, 160:21

northerners [1] - 30:15note [1] - 151:11notebooks [2] - 86:20,

87:1notes [5] - 88:2, 155:8,

155:9, 158:12, 159:4noteworthiness [1] - 14:1nothing [28] - 12:28,

13:2, 17:6, 27:11, 40:1, 57:8, 62:18, 62:20, 84:15, 88:28, 89:3, 90:15, 102:29, 111:2, 125:7, 125:19, 127:12, 129:8, 130:16, 132:4, 133:1, 134:16, 141:1, 141:2, 141:14, 141:15, 143:19

notice [5] - 30:3, 30:16, 30:20, 80:22, 80:24

noticed [1] - 68:1notifying [1] - 84:13November [7] - 9:18,

9:20, 26:13, 26:18, 86:26, 121:3, 121:20

nowadays [1] - 137:15nuisance [2] - 6:14, 8:2number [28] - 5:3, 5:12,

12:26, 13:15, 14:1, 38:1, 63:23, 72:18, 85:15, 100:1, 103:28, 103:29, 103:30, 112:3, 116:29, 126:24, 126:25,

126:28, 127:6, 139:5, 142:17, 143:21, 148:17, 153:6, 154:26, 156:18, 157:22, 158:4

OO'Callaghan [32] - 35:5,

37:4, 38:22, 38:25, 39:30, 40:9, 40:11, 40:22, 41:3, 41:5, 41:11, 41:12, 41:13, 41:15, 41:16, 41:20, 47:2, 47:13, 52:12, 54:27, 54:29, 55:1, 79:6, 80:16, 80:18, 82:3, 86:5, 95:16, 95:22, 138:4, 141:26, 141:28

O'CALLAGHAN [16] - 2:2, 2:4, 14:9, 14:21, 26:2, 27:28, 35:26, 42:8, 53:14, 69:17, 75:12, 81:10, 81:22, 82:5, 87:23, 109:3

O'Callaghan's [1] - 96:10o'clock [3] - 161:2, 161:4,

161:13O'SULLIVAN [1] - 161:23oath [3] - 7:6, 7:28, 7:29objection [2] - 95:12,

95:14observation [1] - 84:12Observer [11] - 26:12,

26:20, 26:24, 27:13, 27:20, 28:6, 28:8, 29:5, 86:25, 102:16, 103:8

obstacle [2] - 46:9, 60:2obstacles [1] - 112:6obtain [1] - 88:6obtained [1] - 15:16obvious [1] - 110:15obviously [1] - 99:27occasion [5] - 26:27,

53:1, 66:4, 75:23, 143:25

occasions [4] - 104:29, 112:4, 134:19, 143:21

occurred [1] - 133:3OF [2] - 1:1, 162:11off-chance [1] - 85:12off-side [3] - 36:28,

37:25, 38:18offence [1] - 94:6offences [1] - 34:3offered [3] - 2:26, 111:27,

146:24office [1] - 110:16Officer [1] - 90:19officer [13] - 6:28, 26:28,

70:13, 89:27, 94:18, 94:26, 99:15, 115:2, 130:15, 132:20, 146:3, 149:15, 149:22

officers [35] - 3:1, 5:15, 7:5, 7:8, 7:20, 19:23, 20:7, 22:2, 56:7, 61:14, 74:17, 75:21, 76:4,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

11

76:17, 77:22, 78:6, 78:12, 79:1, 79:10, 79:30, 80:19, 82:9, 83:16, 83:18, 83:26, 84:11, 86:7, 86:17, 92:27, 93:14, 94:17, 97:5, 102:19, 108:2

officers' [2] - 86:20, 86:30

official [2] - 31:27, 58:24officially [2] - 10:6,

114:29often [3] - 128:4, 134:9,

142:11OK [44] - 2:29, 5:18, 6:3,

7:17, 8:1, 8:7, 8:30, 9:14, 15:7, 16:4, 17:20, 19:13, 20:13, 23:28, 24:15, 24:17, 25:7, 26:5, 26:12, 29:8, 29:16, 37:3, 37:20, 37:23, 38:8, 42:11, 50:1, 51:24, 52:10, 52:30, 53:20, 55:22, 59:8, 64:21, 69:11, 69:17, 71:2, 74:18, 74:30, 75:30, 76:2, 76:9, 76:20

old [1] - 132:28Oliver [53] - 19:21, 21:22,

49:6, 49:7, 49:24, 49:26, 52:23, 53:23, 53:27, 53:28, 54:1, 54:5, 54:6, 55:11, 55:20, 55:22, 55:25, 56:23, 57:3, 58:8, 59:4, 59:9, 62:2, 63:24, 63:26, 63:29, 63:30, 64:23, 65:17, 65:22, 65:30, 66:8, 66:22, 67:3, 67:7, 67:14, 67:18, 67:20, 67:30, 69:27, 70:7, 70:20, 71:8, 71:20, 72:1, 72:19, 72:22, 92:15, 92:16, 138:13, 138:26, 143:2

Oliver's [9] - 65:1, 65:8, 67:2, 67:12, 67:13, 67:22, 68:18, 68:19, 70:24

Omagh [18] - 6:27, 99:12, 99:23, 149:13, 149:15, 150:12, 151:12, 151:24, 151:27, 152:6, 155:30, 156:1, 156:16, 156:17, 156:18, 157:20, 157:24, 157:25

Ombudsman [4] - 141:7, 155:24, 156:4, 157:21

Ombudsman's [2] - 156:7, 156:27

Omeath [34] - 19:20, 20:4, 20:5, 20:9, 20:11, 21:12, 36:14, 36:16, 36:17, 37:9, 37:10, 38:5, 38:8, 39:25, 42:15, 42:23, 42:30,

Page 177: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the …justice.ie/en/JELR/2011-12-15_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day...2011/12/15  · An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael

44:4, 44:25, 45:12, 45:20, 46:13, 46:15, 46:17, 46:27, 47:14, 56:17, 56:19, 131:11, 131:20, 131:25, 131:28

ON [1] - 1:1once [15] - 32:1, 32:6,

32:9, 32:20, 32:24, 64:24, 65:27, 78:22, 124:2, 128:6, 128:21, 131:26, 131:27, 142:12

one [106] - 2:30, 3:15, 4:18, 5:7, 5:12, 5:15, 8:23, 9:29, 12:26, 13:5, 13:6, 16:22, 21:13, 22:19, 25:20, 26:27, 27:8, 28:9, 28:20, 29:20, 30:8, 31:2, 31:16, 31:21, 37:21, 38:1, 40:12, 40:20, 41:6, 41:21, 42:19, 44:14, 46:12, 47:4, 47:9, 47:11, 52:3, 53:1, 61:3, 61:13, 63:4, 64:2, 64:30, 65:15, 66:26, 67:8, 67:9, 67:26, 68:16, 69:8, 72:18, 76:21, 76:22, 78:2, 78:10, 85:15, 94:7, 94:15, 94:16, 96:17, 97:17, 98:25, 101:23, 102:17, 105:24, 105:27, 108:16, 113:3, 114:30, 115:30, 119:5, 119:17, 120:26, 121:14, 122:18, 124:11, 126:16, 126:29, 127:14, 129:2, 130:30, 132:1, 133:10, 134:4, 135:3, 138:20, 138:30, 139:27, 139:30, 140:1, 141:23, 142:20, 142:22, 147:21, 149:21, 151:4, 151:28, 152:21, 152:28, 153:2, 153:3, 158:8, 158:17

one-time [1] - 102:17ones [3] - 6:6, 19:9, 93:19ongoing [5] - 12:25, 18:3,

33:17, 101:27, 101:29OP [1] - 110:15open [2] - 86:1, 105:4opened [2] - 70:8, 70:11openly [1] - 13:10operate [2] - 144:18,

145:26operated [1] - 19:2operating [1] - 144:10operation [26] - 3:29,

4:11, 22:3, 45:12, 45:14, 78:11, 79:8, 79:20, 80:20, 81:3, 81:7, 82:22, 83:3, 83:14, 83:15, 83:23, 84:15, 84:24, 85:21, 86:22, 145:9, 145:12, 148:8, 148:9, 148:23, 154:16

operation" [1] - 77:18

operations [2] - 54:18, 83:28

opinion [5] - 60:24, 102:5, 102:6, 135:21

opportunities [3] - 109:19, 111:27, 111:28

opportunity [4] - 47:7, 108:22, 112:1, 112:3

opposite [1] - 67:28order [8] - 13:8, 33:23,

44:2, 44:16, 62:17, 106:19, 108:29, 151:13

ordinary [8] - 6:17, 31:9, 41:1, 57:22, 112:2, 112:6, 137:14

organisation [1] - 154:18organisations [2] -

110:25, 138:8organise [1] - 158:30organising [1] - 159:6original [1] - 42:29originally [1] - 160:1otherwise [1] - 111:29ourselves [1] - 151:6outraged [2] - 64:7, 88:3outside [12] - 30:27,

32:21, 67:28, 96:15, 120:22, 124:28, 137:22, 138:14, 150:20, 150:25, 153:1, 159:21

overall [1] - 125:17overalls [1] - 132:13overlooking [1] - 101:14overweight [1] - 29:30Owen [147] - 8:9, 8:11,

8:12, 8:21, 8:25, 9:9, 9:24, 9:29, 11:10, 14:22, 16:5, 16:15, 16:18, 17:8, 17:29, 18:17, 19:4, 19:17, 19:23, 19:25, 20:1, 20:21, 20:28, 21:6, 21:20, 22:4, 22:5, 22:11, 22:16, 22:24, 22:26, 23:2, 23:8, 23:11, 23:24, 25:1, 26:9, 26:13, 27:28, 28:8, 29:8, 30:22, 31:19, 31:30, 36:11, 36:20, 37:2, 40:2, 40:10, 40:14, 40:17, 40:21, 40:23, 42:9, 44:17, 44:22, 45:10, 45:19, 45:23, 45:24, 45:25, 45:27, 46:13, 46:19, 47:12, 48:9, 48:27, 52:18, 52:19, 52:25, 53:9, 53:17, 53:20, 53:22, 53:27, 53:30, 54:2, 54:11, 54:16, 54:25, 55:6, 55:24, 55:28, 56:4, 56:6, 56:16, 56:30, 57:16, 57:26, 58:6, 59:8, 60:3, 60:26, 60:29, 62:1, 65:6, 65:7, 65:21, 71:10, 73:7, 73:10, 73:15, 73:25,

76:1, 76:2, 76:4, 77:21, 77:23, 77:27, 78:5, 78:28, 79:1, 79:16, 82:14, 84:16, 85:23, 86:3, 87:12, 88:7, 88:14, 88:24, 89:6, 89:8, 90:3, 91:8, 91:10, 92:1, 92:10, 93:1, 93:3, 93:8, 95:16, 95:21, 95:24, 96:8, 96:11, 96:27, 105:8, 105:12, 106:4, 106:16, 106:28, 107:4, 107:18, 107:19, 107:23, 108:24

own [13] - 6:19, 33:28, 60:27, 82:18, 86:15, 87:4, 87:7, 110:2, 117:13, 117:15, 119:25, 148:4, 156:5

owned [2] - 42:15, 42:19owner [4] - 42:20, 42:25,

134:5, 158:20ownership [1] - 122:11owns [2] - 42:17, 42:24

Ppack [5] - 15:14, 15:27,

153:22, 153:23, 154:10package [1] - 147:27Paddy [2] - 5:25, 6:3page [6] - 39:23, 66:19,

67:23, 71:3, 72:25, 92:20

pages [1] - 23:22paid [16] - 70:14, 97:24,

97:26, 100:10, 100:30, 101:17, 117:6, 120:12, 120:13, 121:7, 135:3, 140:17, 144:25, 145:7, 145:29, 145:30

paint [2] - 116:28, 116:30painted [1] - 121:2painters [1] - 117:1painting [2] - 68:5,

120:22panicked [1] - 135:14paper [6] - 11:7, 102:30,

105:17, 155:25, 155:29, 156:6

papers [6] - 71:7, 78:13, 100:1, 114:10, 156:11

paragraphs [1] - 76:21paramilitaries [6] -

119:30, 120:5, 137:16, 144:29, 145:18, 159:19

paramilitary [1] - 110:25paranoid [3] - 137:13,

137:16, 138:9pardon [1] - 135:25parents [2] - 116:22,

116:24Paris [20] - 64:20, 64:21,

64:25, 65:28, 66:6, 66:8, 66:10, 66:21, 66:22, 66:29, 67:1, 67:3, 67:5, 67:11, 68:21, 70:26, 70:27,

71:6, 160:8, 160:17park [12] - 8:17, 31:29,

32:7, 32:10, 48:29, 49:12, 50:6, 50:7, 50:19, 52:14, 67:25, 160:11

Parker [3] - 42:12, 42:30, 132:22

parole [1] - 120:17part [27] - 15:27, 25:30,

27:17, 28:29, 29:3, 32:25, 33:10, 33:18, 34:7, 35:3, 35:8, 45:10, 55:17, 56:9, 67:17, 67:19, 78:27, 79:26, 81:8, 84:14, 85:22, 86:22, 90:11, 99:12, 108:19, 120:2, 143:1

particular [7] - 3:15, 4:5, 16:14, 18:1, 48:2, 57:26, 92:23

parts [1] - 108:29party [4] - 7:12, 37:12,

37:13, 133:22pass [3] - 31:1, 62:1,

144:17passed [6] - 13:7, 13:25,

14:2, 54:2, 142:6, 144:7passing [8] - 31:23,

48:28, 52:24, 53:6, 54:9, 70:9, 92:25, 143:23

past [13] - 5:10, 5:13, 79:11, 79:14, 79:21, 80:1, 80:2, 80:18, 81:4, 82:10, 82:30, 83:27, 150:27

Pat [1] - 158:21pathological [2] - 57:28,

58:3Patrick [9] - 26:28, 27:3,

32:20, 36:29, 42:11, 42:30, 86:5, 96:10, 158:19

Patrick's [2] - 110:1, 110:10

patrol [2] - 83:29, 85:11Patrol [1] - 68:1Patsy [27] - 37:4, 38:22,

38:25, 39:30, 40:8, 40:11, 40:14, 40:21, 41:3, 41:5, 41:10, 41:12, 41:15, 41:16, 41:20, 47:2, 47:13, 52:12, 54:26, 54:29, 55:1, 79:6, 80:16, 80:17, 95:16, 95:22

pause [2] - 70:5, 74:21pay [9] - 97:30, 98:28,

99:7, 99:23, 139:28, 140:2, 140:3, 145:9, 145:11

pay-as-you-go [2] - 140:2, 140:3

paying [7] - 101:3, 101:26, 111:1, 111:2, 116:12, 116:13, 116:15

payment [1] - 99:9

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

12

pending [1] - 100:26Penrose [1] - 69:12People [3] - 155:22,

155:23, 156:3people [155] - 3:11, 3:17,

3:26, 4:1, 4:2, 4:6, 4:15, 4:18, 4:20, 4:22, 5:13, 7:9, 7:22, 7:29, 9:12, 10:10, 10:12, 10:24, 12:5, 12:18, 20:4, 21:6, 25:20, 25:28, 26:7, 29:1, 30:13, 31:26, 33:12, 33:25, 35:7, 37:30, 38:3, 40:30, 43:12, 43:13, 46:22, 47:5, 50:10, 50:13, 50:30, 51:9, 54:21, 54:22, 57:10, 57:13, 59:30, 60:16, 63:4, 63:13, 64:13, 64:15, 65:9, 70:29, 75:4, 80:30, 84:6, 87:7, 87:9, 87:16, 87:17, 87:19, 88:1, 93:20, 93:26, 95:21, 97:10, 100:16, 101:1, 103:14, 105:15, 106:11, 110:14, 110:17, 110:22, 110:25, 110:27, 112:18, 113:6, 113:13, 113:17, 114:3, 117:14, 117:24, 118:26, 118:28, 119:2, 119:3, 120:6, 122:1, 124:8, 124:14, 126:5, 126:17, 126:19, 126:20, 126:22, 126:23, 127:12, 128:18, 128:19, 128:29, 128:30, 129:14, 129:28, 131:9, 131:13, 133:11, 134:18, 135:14, 135:23, 136:4, 136:6, 136:9, 137:7, 137:13, 138:17, 138:18, 138:20, 139:15, 140:25, 141:1, 142:3, 142:4, 144:11, 144:13, 144:15, 145:15, 145:20, 145:23, 145:24, 146:1, 146:19, 148:11, 148:12, 148:19, 148:24, 148:26, 148:27, 154:1, 156:7, 157:15, 158:7, 158:16

people's [3] - 137:22, 146:11, 148:5

per [1] - 153:21perhaps [5] - 7:25, 13:30,

15:11, 109:19, 156:30period [9] - 18:4, 63:13,

74:21, 83:4, 106:7, 108:20, 119:6, 128:5, 145:28

perjuring [1] - 106:19person [43] - 2:18, 2:28,

5:8, 7:6, 11:12, 15:19, 16:3, 18:30, 19:14, 20:16, 22:5, 27:1, 27:4, 40:20, 42:17, 45:27, 57:8, 58:28, 68:12, 71:16, 75:15, 79:24, 80:15, 84:1, 91:18,

Page 178: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the …justice.ie/en/JELR/2011-12-15_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day...2011/12/15  · An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael

93:30, 106:26, 106:27, 107:1, 107:3, 110:21, 113:3, 122:2, 133:22, 143:14, 147:17, 147:21, 148:19, 155:26, 156:24, 156:26, 158:5

personal [2] - 31:5, 149:25

personally [2] - 23:19, 99:21

personnel [1] - 135:3Peugeot [1] - 124:16Pfizer [1] - 153:26phase [3] - 112:10,

112:11, 112:12phone [11] - 67:28, 80:14,

115:24, 126:26, 139:14, 139:18, 139:21, 140:16, 142:16, 142:17, 150:9

phoned [2] - 79:4, 80:15phones [1] - 140:7photograph [5] - 4:17,

105:17, 106:12, 129:6, 135:13

photographed [1] - 110:19

photographs [8] - 3:16, 110:9, 110:13, 110:20, 111:10, 113:12, 129:1, 129:8

photolight [1] - 130:19photos [2] - 129:10phrase [1] - 127:14physical [1] - 31:5physically [2] - 28:17,

97:10pick [5] - 38:16, 41:28,

72:18, 110:8, 127:13picked [3] - 36:1, 79:24,

127:13picking [2] - 32:16, 36:9picture [2] - 141:21,

151:2pictures [1] - 106:12piece [12] - 10:17, 11:6,

15:11, 15:15, 29:18, 35:6, 61:3, 104:8, 121:11, 128:9, 128:11, 128:21

pieces [3] - 142:5, 142:20, 156:23

pin [2] - 39:15, 74:5pinpoint [1] - 43:5PIRA [5] - 22:25, 22:26,

76:15, 78:4, 107:30PKK [2] - 3:28, 4:16place [27] - 4:13, 36:22,

39:11, 47:6, 50:16, 51:3, 55:2, 71:11, 76:12, 83:19, 84:7, 100:30, 107:29, 109:28, 124:28, 131:27, 132:10, 147:29, 150:12, 150:16, 150:23, 151:18, 151:27, 151:30, 153:28, 154:12, 160:22

places [5] - 148:19, 158:17, 159:2, 159:3,

160:27plain [1] - 23:27plain-clothes [1] - 23:27planned [2] - 86:7, 148:6plans [1] - 80:27plant [1] - 140:21plates [1] - 152:16platoon [1] - 115:1played [2] - 65:30, 111:18playing [7] - 33:18, 34:6,

136:8, 136:14, 155:7, 158:11, 158:23

Point [1] - 123:1point [13] - 5:11, 54:26,

71:2, 71:25, 84:23, 107:9, 118:20, 129:29, 131:29, 136:29, 151:22, 157:28, 161:14

poles [1] - 106:13police [41] - 2:25, 6:28,

13:22, 18:8, 33:1, 34:7, 59:28, 73:24, 74:16, 86:17, 87:15, 89:27, 92:6, 92:26, 94:20, 95:6, 97:5, 98:11, 99:2, 102:19, 104:25, 104:29, 105:22, 115:7, 125:9, 125:20, 126:18, 130:15, 132:20, 136:9, 136:22, 141:6, 147:1, 147:10, 148:4, 149:15, 149:26, 149:27, 151:11, 153:15, 157:14

policeman [5] - 129:28, 138:28, 139:3, 150:4, 159:28

policemen [9] - 6:17, 12:1, 27:23, 54:23, 120:19, 128:18, 146:9, 159:27

policy [1] - 143:4political [2] - 90:12,

108:29politics [2] - 90:14, 90:15pool [1] - 111:18poor [1] - 68:23Portlaoise [1] - 129:3position [4] - 89:21,

120:27, 140:13, 144:2positive [4] - 2:29, 3:1,

71:23, 105:10possession [3] - 42:26,

43:8, 154:3possibility [1] - 151:27possible [7] - 45:30,

80:23, 80:25, 81:1, 84:14, 100:2, 139:30

possibly [4] - 13:29, 79:9, 101:16, 154:20

posted [1] - 112:19posters [1] - 96:27pound [1] - 154:21pounds [1] - 124:23practice [1] - 109:28prayer [1] - 80:29prearranged [1] - 123:15premises [9] - 38:8,

42:21, 43:14, 50:1,

50:3, 50:6, 51:2, 51:17, 51:21

prepared [2] - 34:5, 132:3presence [4] - 30:22,

82:16, 142:2, 148:4present [3] - 28:24, 63:5,

67:20Press [1] - 155:22pressing [1] - 130:21presumably [8] - 17:8,

27:4, 33:21, 76:12, 76:15, 118:22, 132:26, 136:19

presume [2] - 18:5, 127:8pretty [1] - 134:9prevent [2] - 102:19,

103:14previous [4] - 32:22,

34:3, 156:25, 157:30previously [1] - 32:1price [1] - 68:4print [1] - 26:24printed [1] - 148:15prints [2] - 36:27, 132:15Prison [1] - 112:25prison [7] - 9:18, 9:20,

119:23, 120:13, 120:15, 121:3, 129:3

private [1] - 112:4problem [7] - 14:17,

41:19, 59:22, 93:21, 120:3, 124:3, 139:29

problems [1] - 144:16procedure [1] - 129:25procedures [1] - 18:28proceed [1] - 81:12process [1] - 153:29produce [2] - 129:7produced [1] - 87:4profile [1] - 110:27programme [2] - 26:25,

26:26prominence [5] - 61:4,

61:5, 61:11, 61:28, 61:30

Prominence [1] - 61:5prominent [2] - 69:10,

131:29promotion [1] - 72:27proof [9] - 7:23, 57:11,

152:15, 152:16, 152:18, 152:19, 152:25, 153:2, 153:6

proper [1] - 103:5property [2] - 42:24,

115:8propose [3] - 161:15,

161:20, 161:24prosecuted [1] - 132:25prosecution [1] - 13:11protecting [1] - 106:24protection [1] - 33:29proud [1] - 7:11provide [1] - 130:28provided [16] - 14:23,

14:24, 19:17, 19:28, 20:2, 20:21, 26:22, 54:12, 55:29, 56:6,

56:17, 65:21, 87:13, 95:3, 133:5, 158:4

provider [1] - 128:22providing [12] - 5:27,

21:20, 35:7, 48:9, 56:14, 97:23, 110:7, 127:26, 133:11, 133:12, 159:14, 159:16

provisional [2] - 69:10, 102:20

Provisional [17] - 5:5, 10:8, 16:1, 16:5, 53:7, 76:16, 78:5, 79:4, 79:18, 79:20, 84:17, 108:1, 120:20, 130:18, 150:17, 150:22, 151:15

PSNI [6] - 12:25, 13:8, 13:15, 14:5, 33:11, 35:3

pub [4] - 27:3, 51:19, 51:25, 138:21

public [12] - 1:9, 1:11, 1:16, 67:21, 93:19, 93:20, 100:3, 139:9, 153:28, 153:29, 154:11

publicly [3] - 91:22, 92:7, 94:14

published [3] - 26:19, 35:23, 102:15

pulled [4] - 52:15, 67:25, 68:2, 151:5

punish [1] - 120:8purchase [3] - 5:30,

139:24, 139:25purchased [1] - 152:18purport [1] - 48:9purporting [1] - 48:27purpose [4] - 115:16,

133:29, 137:19, 160:20purposely [2] - 77:1, 77:9pursue [2] - 113:22,

128:28put [35] - 2:6, 9:15, 9:16,

9:17, 15:28, 38:5, 46:22, 47:3, 57:13, 69:17, 69:19, 72:13, 72:27, 81:15, 84:3, 85:29, 94:8, 94:9, 96:27, 99:30, 105:17, 106:13, 107:27, 110:11, 110:23, 111:9, 114:28, 123:15, 127:9, 134:20, 144:2, 148:22, 154:14, 161:20, 161:24

puts [2] - 70:20, 85:15putting [2] - 105:15,

156:11

Qquarter [1] - 80:18queer [1] - 124:1questioned [2] - 104:28,

143:21questioning [1] - 16:22questions [23] - 4:21,

12:15, 12:17, 12:24, 13:14, 27:16, 28:18, 29:18, 29:25, 51:29,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

13

88:19, 89:15, 109:9, 127:4, 128:29, 129:12, 129:14, 130:2, 161:14, 161:20, 161:24, 161:26, 161:28

quick [1] - 131:10quickly [4] - 38:23,

139:23, 139:27, 154:28quite [14] - 13:10, 55:15,

70:23, 84:14, 99:27, 110:4, 122:23, 125:19, 133:10, 135:21, 145:25, 154:12, 154:19, 158:2

quizzed [1] - 65:26quizzing [1] - 125:12quotes [1] - 26:18

RRAFFERTY [4] - 13:29,

35:21, 161:30, 162:5raid [6] - 37:18, 46:20,

47:3, 47:6, 47:14, 133:3raided [10] - 36:24, 37:13,

37:20, 38:8, 38:13, 45:11, 46:27, 115:8, 131:20, 151:13

raiding [2] - 151:14, 151:18

railway [1] - 115:23raise [2] - 28:23, 69:24raising [1] - 78:15ran [2] - 69:2, 135:12rang [6] - 103:28, 103:30,

125:17, 146:24, 149:24range [4] - 111:18, 112:5,

112:6, 112:9Rangers [1] - 112:29rather [2] - 92:7, 138:13re [2] - 161:30, 162:8re-examination [2] -

161:30, 162:8reach [2] - 102:1, 102:4reaction [3] - 11:18,

87:30, 88:1read [7] - 3:6, 17:24,

26:17, 32:30, 67:21, 67:24, 70:4

readers [1] - 66:29readily [1] - 105:16reading [1] - 102:29Real [6] - 152:14, 152:29,

153:11, 154:22, 159:21, 159:22

real [2] - 5:29, 51:5realise [2] - 48:7, 60:12realised [1] - 136:25really [35] - 2:15, 19:4,

30:4, 35:12, 35:27, 50:14, 51:22, 55:13, 82:19, 88:17, 88:22, 90:14, 95:10, 105:3, 109:24, 109:27, 111:19, 111:21, 119:30, 124:3, 125:17, 125:29, 128:22, 129:13, 134:20, 135:14, 136:8, 137:16, 144:2, 146:2, 152:10, 158:25,

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159:11rearrested [2] - 142:29,

142:30reason [19] - 3:21, 4:28,

7:8, 7:16, 22:23, 27:7, 31:11, 59:19, 59:27, 60:7, 67:10, 86:25, 90:2, 90:11, 95:28, 108:27, 132:23, 139:30, 140:29

reasonable [1] - 136:29reasons [4] - 5:23, 5:29,

12:24, 26:25rebels [1] - 3:13received [2] - 87:11,

97:24recent [1] - 51:20recently [1] - 51:22reckless [3] - 54:15,

55:17, 55:18recklessly [1] - 147:8recognise [1] - 107:9recognised [2] - 103:7,

103:9recollection [3] - 2:27,

41:25, 155:13recommendation [1] -

107:24record [15] - 5:23, 7:10,

51:28, 66:24, 114:19, 124:10, 128:7, 130:16, 137:6, 137:18, 137:23, 154:30, 155:5, 155:12, 155:14

record-keeping [1] - 155:14

recorded [1] - 148:3recorder [1] - 137:26recorders [1] - 129:7recording [4] - 124:13,

134:13, 137:1, 137:17recount [3] - 69:7, 71:30,

73:17recovered [1] - 3:28red [1] - 125:11refer [1] - 35:9reference [1] - 92:20referenced [1] - 133:9referred [1] - 4:28referring [2] - 2:11,

100:13regard [1] - 35:28regarded [2] - 4:29, 97:13regiment [4] - 112:19,

112:30, 115:30, 116:14registered [2] - 13:7,

104:19registration [1] - 134:7registrations [1] - 137:22regular [3] - 116:19,

136:22, 142:4regularly [1] - 10:26relating [3] - 3:16, 75:5,

158:7relation [8] - 2:26, 18:1,

18:4, 111:8, 120:28, 132:22, 133:5, 157:12

relationship [5] - 111:7,

113:1, 144:26, 147:6, 152:5

released [9] - 24:18, 57:11, 65:27, 66:3, 119:23, 121:3, 142:28, 143:18, 153:29

relevance [2] - 93:22, 106:28

relevant [3] - 36:9, 77:15, 152:2

reliable [4] - 56:14, 56:20, 56:27

remark [1] - 6:26remarks [1] - 6:27remember [90] - 5:16,

6:10, 9:1, 9:19, 9:21, 9:26, 9:29, 15:30, 16:2, 16:9, 16:10, 17:24, 23:17, 24:6, 24:13, 24:24, 25:10, 26:1, 26:2, 26:5, 26:7, 26:8, 27:17, 29:19, 30:6, 42:3, 49:2, 49:3, 49:9, 49:19, 50:24, 62:10, 62:25, 62:29, 62:30, 63:4, 63:6, 63:7, 63:9, 63:18, 63:20, 71:14, 75:17, 75:18, 76:24, 77:3, 77:13, 78:10, 87:14, 87:24, 87:27, 89:13, 89:15, 89:19, 90:29, 91:15, 92:18, 96:14, 96:27, 96:30, 97:1, 100:12, 101:7, 107:22, 115:6, 116:1, 116:16, 117:4, 117:17, 118:19, 119:15, 119:17, 120:14, 120:17, 120:21, 121:5, 121:11, 121:14, 125:3, 125:17, 125:29, 129:2, 129:24, 131:9, 133:24, 134:4, 152:21, 153:5, 153:22

reminding [1] - 117:18removed [1] - 43:19reneged [1] - 98:29rent [1] - 101:26repeat [1] - 21:18repeated [1] - 17:17repeating [2] - 17:4,

128:8replaced [1] - 140:20report [10] - 4:12, 11:24,

62:4, 72:3, 72:5, 72:6, 87:13, 88:29, 156:27, 157:20

reported [12] - 4:9, 10:26, 10:30, 11:3, 11:4, 62:6, 63:3, 63:10, 79:17, 141:11, 147:28, 156:20

reporting [1] - 3:12reports [4] - 73:22, 74:15,

74:19, 74:26represent [1] - 105:5Republic [6] - 30:13,

38:19, 38:21, 39:1, 130:9, 130:25

republican [4] - 51:6,

51:7, 51:9, 97:14republicans [6] - 17:30,

50:17, 51:3, 51:13, 51:14, 107:2

Research [1] - 115:19reservist [1] - 94:27respect [20] - 3:2, 5:6,

5:25, 13:1, 13:13, 13:22, 14:5, 14:12, 14:24, 35:2, 45:13, 53:15, 56:17, 57:25, 88:23, 94:28, 95:4, 106:23, 107:12, 107:15

respected [1] - 103:7response [1] - 3:6responsible [1] - 26:14rest [1] - 160:21restrictions [1] - 111:24result [9] - 55:24, 56:30,

57:2, 61:28, 119:13, 145:7, 145:12, 155:21, 155:23

resulted [1] - 139:5RESUMED [1] - 1:1resumes [1] - 1:7retained [1] - 14:4retired [5] - 25:19, 58:15,

90:19, 106:25, 147:12return [1] - 72:26returned [1] - 1:16returning [1] - 70:7revealed [1] - 57:27revenge [2] - 105:19,

105:20rich [2] - 153:20, 160:15rid [2] - 43:23, 94:11rifles [1] - 152:17rightly [1] - 73:9rights [1] - 18:7ring [6] - 24:23, 91:1,

126:24, 126:25, 127:7, 142:16

Rio's [1] - 137:10rise [2] - 81:13, 81:19riser [2] - 118:30rising [1] - 81:18risk [6] - 85:16, 105:16,

110:5, 136:13, 160:29Riverside [1] - 129:4road [21] - 7:13, 12:19,

13:17, 33:30, 50:5, 52:11, 52:13, 53:25, 67:29, 78:13, 81:1, 81:2, 85:10, 86:29, 100:7, 123:18, 144:30, 150:21, 151:4, 151:10

Road [4] - 24:7, 123:1, 137:10, 147:10

roads [3] - 13:24, 123:14, 140:24

roaming [1] - 40:29rob [2] - 158:16, 159:3robbed [3] - 152:23,

158:21, 158:22robberies [1] - 158:29robbery [5] - 4:12, 4:13,

147:29, 152:25, 159:18ROBINSON [1] - 161:26

rocket [2] - 130:22, 135:5role [1] - 66:1roll [1] - 148:23roll-off [1] - 148:23rolls [1] - 148:16Ronnie [5] - 6:28, 6:30,

7:1, 99:2, 135:17roof [1] - 122:30room [25] - 1:7, 25:10,

25:13, 25:17, 25:18, 25:23, 25:27, 25:28, 26:1, 26:4, 26:15, 27:15, 27:23, 28:1, 28:13, 28:27, 29:8, 30:25, 32:2, 32:15, 74:15, 130:2, 130:3, 130:4

roughly [3] - 43:4, 113:6, 116:19

round [1] - 131:21ROURKE [1] - 161:28route [4] - 123:15,

123:16, 123:30, 124:1row [1] - 100:4Royal [2] - 6:11, 112:29rubbish [1] - 99:19RUC [48] - 2:7, 2:11, 2:23,

3:1, 3:30, 5:3, 6:18, 6:22, 7:20, 7:27, 8:2, 9:28, 19:23, 20:6, 20:7, 22:2, 35:13, 41:1, 56:7, 61:14, 64:11, 64:14, 64:15, 75:20, 78:30, 79:10, 79:30, 82:9, 86:7, 90:19, 93:14, 94:8, 94:23, 94:26, 94:27, 94:28, 94:29, 95:1, 97:4, 98:15, 99:15, 126:20, 149:20, 149:30, 154:13

Rudolf [1] - 112:25rule [4] - 57:7, 57:14,

128:27, 157:16rules [1] - 57:12run [12] - 36:25, 36:26,

39:28, 45:12, 119:30, 120:6, 125:19, 140:18, 146:18, 147:5, 148:11, 155:29

run-in [1] - 147:5run-off [1] - 148:11running [3] - 136:12,

148:8, 159:28runs [2] - 110:2, 110:3rural [1] - 131:30Ryder [5] - 99:5, 99:13,

99:15, 99:20, 99:21

Ssafe [5] - 38:30, 39:14,

42:18, 43:30, 132:11said" [1] - 89:11sample [5] - 153:22,

153:24, 154:5, 154:20samples [1] - 132:7sat [2] - 52:22, 54:22satellite [2] - 124:12,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

14

131:1satisfaction [1] - 12:21Saturday [1] - 120:18save [2] - 146:11, 146:15Saved [1] - 72:14saved [1] - 145:8saw [6] - 29:9, 80:7,

80:12, 82:15, 83:26, 88:14

scale [1] - 83:3scams [1] - 145:17Scappaticci [3] - 85:24,

86:3, 104:21scared [1] - 86:18scarey [1] - 146:13scene [6] - 15:16, 16:26,

37:18, 45:11, 134:23Scotland [1] - 160:18Sean [6] - 104:15, 104:17,

105:11, 105:14, 105:21, 131:15

Seaton [1] - 115:10second [8] - 19:19, 67:9,

70:6, 75:13, 75:19, 96:23, 122:9, 143:7

second-hand [1] - 122:9Secret [1] - 72:15secret [4] - 27:10, 56:11,

122:22, 129:11secreted [1] - 137:26secretly [1] - 105:26section [1] - 126:3secure [5] - 153:28,

154:6, 154:12, 154:19security [6] - 101:14,

113:4, 125:20, 133:18, 133:20, 154:8

Security [11] - 26:30, 27:2, 41:14, 65:11, 65:14, 72:23, 72:27, 102:13, 122:19, 133:16, 143:22

see [26] - 23:16, 27:26, 28:5, 28:30, 29:3, 29:25, 30:7, 30:18, 31:2, 48:15, 48:16, 55:13, 60:30, 83:1, 88:25, 95:19, 111:22, 115:11, 116:18, 123:5, 124:20, 126:27, 128:11, 152:2, 157:3, 157:7

seek [1] - 28:23seeking [1] - 61:14seem [1] - 32:16seize [1] - 86:19seized [2] - 36:17, 86:30seizure [1] - 19:20sell [1] - 124:30selling [2] - 98:23, 153:19semi [1] - 118:11semi-detached [1] -

118:11send [1] - 123:22senior [10] - 53:3, 76:12,

78:4, 92:26, 99:15, 107:30, 139:3, 149:7, 149:15, 149:22

senseless [1] - 54:20

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sensitive [8] - 54:12, 54:17, 55:10, 58:10, 58:19, 60:3, 130:19, 138:26

sent [3] - 71:7, 113:8, 120:8

sentence [2] - 65:8, 120:16

sentenced [1] - 119:13September [5] - 52:30,

102:15, 103:22, 107:28, 108:5

Sergeant [5] - 25:20, 36:4, 64:7, 64:12, 147:12

serious [4] - 5:14, 19:8, 19:9, 89:28

serve [1] - 89:25service [1] - 125:20Services [2] - 102:13,

122:19serving [2] - 59:18, 59:19sessions [1] - 50:15set [16] - 35:14, 79:1,

91:17, 107:24, 107:27, 115:19, 124:29, 126:7, 126:24, 126:29, 127:3, 127:4, 147:6, 147:7, 151:7, 158:12

setting [5] - 19:21, 93:4, 136:7, 153:30, 154:14

setting-up [1] - 19:21seven [1] - 115:28shadow [1] - 52:26Shanaghan [2] - 5:25, 6:3shape [1] - 55:19ship [1] - 123:21shit [1] - 151:6shocked [2] - 141:15,

150:1shoes [5] - 29:20, 30:7,

57:23, 74:6, 74:7shook [1] - 126:14shoot [1] - 142:8shooting [7] - 70:11,

73:23, 74:16, 74:19, 74:26, 112:8, 120:28

shootings [1] - 120:25shop [5] - 116:26, 116:28,

117:2, 117:5, 117:15shopping [1] - 152:14shops [1] - 116:30short [8] - 29:21, 80:22,

80:24, 83:4, 118:12, 119:6, 162:1

shorter [1] - 29:22shortly [5] - 62:6, 62:11,

109:14, 147:13, 152:7shot [13] - 59:29, 65:10,

65:12, 65:15, 65:29, 66:3, 71:8, 85:16, 87:9, 120:20, 128:14, 128:15

shotgun [9] - 52:24, 54:3, 54:9, 59:5, 59:6, 59:9, 59:11, 59:12

shouted [1] - 151:19show [4] - 122:17, 123:4,

126:28, 157:5

showed [1] - 32:25shrugged [1] - 66:20shuttle [1] - 119:17shuttles [1] - 119:17sick [6] - 58:7, 58:13,

59:2, 59:25, 60:8, 114:30

sick-leave [4] - 58:7, 58:13, 59:2, 60:8

side [8] - 8:11, 12:18, 36:28, 37:25, 38:18, 50:5, 67:29, 160:12

Sierra [1] - 70:9sign [2] - 32:18, 119:5signal [1] - 123:29signed [7] - 17:26, 33:4,

65:8, 98:29, 112:15, 112:17

significant [1] - 62:4simple [4] - 23:20, 23:23,

25:19, 140:28simply [2] - 34:3, 45:30Sinn [1] - 124:7Siochana [14] - 5:5, 8:8,

15:16, 24:19, 37:14, 37:16, 37:21, 45:15, 55:6, 58:7, 58:14, 59:18, 60:10, 62:17

sit [6] - 85:9, 85:10, 85:14, 110:13, 125:14, 129:29

sitting [3] - 28:20, 52:26, 68:1

situation [2] - 54:11, 161:23

six [4] - 59:29, 103:28, 115:28, 126:23

skills [1] - 114:14slide [1] - 160:13slightly [1] - 83:6slim [6] - 105:2, 105:8,

105:10, 105:12, 107:10slipped [1] - 114:1slowly [2] - 73:27, 74:18small [1] - 147:27smuggler [1] - 147:14smuggling [1] - 145:16snooker [1] - 111:18so.. [1] - 21:4soak [1] - 156:1socialising [2] - 50:25,

95:19soldiers [2] - 112:2,

159:28solely [2] - 14:5, 127:11solicitor [1] - 130:5someone [18] - 4:8, 4:11,

7:15, 11:27, 20:20, 31:27, 42:21, 44:21, 51:26, 57:6, 122:24, 124:29, 125:7, 128:14, 128:15, 129:5, 136:10, 146:16

sometime [3] - 127:22, 130:30, 146:24

sometimes [20] - 17:19, 38:1, 83:30, 111:18, 117:13, 117:15, 131:26,

131:28, 134:15, 141:16, 142:12, 144:13, 145:16, 145:30, 146:7, 158:25, 160:17, 160:18

somewhere [9] - 33:1, 38:18, 47:4, 85:11, 127:8, 131:28, 147:25, 151:23, 160:11

soon [1] - 116:13sorry [47] - 7:4, 49:2,

54:4, 63:20, 70:30, 77:5, 79:30, 85:19, 86:12, 86:13, 97:20, 97:22, 111:20, 113:9, 114:1, 117:23, 119:11, 123:6, 123:7, 125:24, 127:1, 127:2, 127:16, 127:30, 129:15, 131:18, 132:2, 136:17, 138:6, 139:1, 139:13, 139:16, 139:20, 141:9, 142:25, 144:6, 144:19, 144:21, 145:27, 145:28, 146:22, 149:4, 151:21, 154:29, 157:28, 160:24, 160:25

Sorry [1] - 69:15sort [6] - 24:11, 44:2,

85:18, 110:28, 134:12, 149:25

sorted [6] - 36:29, 41:4, 41:29, 43:18, 43:28, 79:8

sound [3] - 38:6, 109:24sounding [1] - 51:6sounds [2] - 128:17,

141:13sour [1] - 147:6source [8] - 56:20, 56:27,

91:10, 99:1, 118:27, 145:2, 156:5, 156:6

south [10] - 24:9, 26:30, 123:14, 124:2, 135:15, 145:15, 149:10, 150:15, 160:29

South [1] - 39:28southern [1] - 30:10space [2] - 119:16,

119:17Spandau [1] - 112:24speaking [2] - 85:6,

103:24special [1] - 152:27Special [39] - 3:29, 5:15,

5:30, 6:16, 6:17, 6:18, 6:19, 6:26, 7:9, 13:7, 13:27, 23:15, 24:7, 30:30, 31:15, 36:8, 98:12, 98:13, 99:1, 99:3, 134:30, 135:2, 135:18, 135:19, 135:21, 136:4, 144:9, 144:19, 145:25, 146:18, 146:19, 146:20, 147:2, 147:4, 147:15, 147:16, 154:15

specialised [1] - 128:19specific [14] - 8:20,

12:10, 15:10, 23:8, 36:11, 40:20, 48:30,

71:18, 75:16, 89:18, 94:14, 94:21, 131:19, 137:19

specifically [5] - 20:28, 43:23, 83:20, 88:26, 88:30

specifics [1] - 21:1specify [1] - 10:29speculate [1] - 73:14speculation [1] - 96:5speech [3] - 30:3, 30:9,

30:16spelling [1] - 93:29spend [1] - 21:3spent [1] - 112:22spoken [8] - 25:14, 32:26,

55:9, 90:17, 90:19, 90:22, 90:25, 101:19

spotted [2] - 79:1, 151:10spotting [2] - 30:30,

80:29squad [1] - 86:30Squad [7] - 2:23, 2:24,

98:14, 98:15, 148:28, 155:1, 155:12

squares [1] - 109:23St [4] - 110:1, 110:10,

148:13, 148:25stack [1] - 89:30staff [1] - 139:16stage [47] - 10:29, 10:30,

11:4, 27:2, 27:8, 28:9, 33:20, 34:2, 38:2, 39:4, 43:6, 55:28, 56:16, 67:30, 114:7, 116:22, 118:23, 120:25, 120:29, 121:8, 121:17, 121:24, 121:26, 121:27, 124:4, 125:10, 125:18, 127:10, 129:19, 130:14, 131:3, 132:3, 133:15, 134:9, 134:27, 142:9, 142:11, 143:29, 143:30, 144:6, 144:7, 147:19, 152:13, 152:15, 155:26, 156:9

stand [1] - 18:14standard [1] - 129:25standing [2] - 109:23,

138:14star [1] - 35:8start [13] - 12:15, 12:17,

13:9, 36:16, 41:6, 49:3, 116:12, 124:21, 143:20, 144:22, 146:13, 147:19, 150:15

started [22] - 9:5, 13:23, 23:30, 53:10, 79:21, 81:4, 81:7, 82:23, 83:14, 83:15, 84:25, 114:24, 116:13, 116:26, 117:2, 129:15, 130:12, 134:8, 143:28, 145:4, 149:23, 156:4

starting [1] - 124:4starts [1] - 74:18State [2] - 89:26, 102:18state [16] - 7:5, 13:2,

17:28, 43:23, 57:12,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

15

64:26, 66:19, 67:16, 67:21, 68:30, 72:25, 78:3, 88:30, 91:22, 130:15

statement [50] - 17:22, 17:24, 17:26, 32:18, 32:22, 32:25, 33:2, 33:4, 35:22, 39:23, 40:8, 40:20, 41:7, 45:4, 46:16, 54:30, 64:22, 64:26, 67:22, 67:23, 70:23, 71:3, 71:4, 71:30, 72:21, 76:20, 76:25, 77:3, 77:12, 77:14, 77:30, 78:3, 80:7, 80:10, 85:28, 85:30, 86:1, 86:6, 86:15, 91:7, 93:9, 95:15, 96:17, 107:22, 107:27, 107:28, 108:18, 115:13, 121:17, 156:22

statements [3] - 78:10, 96:18, 108:23

stating [14] - 3:24, 13:1, 26:18, 37:20, 44:16, 58:22, 63:13, 74:19, 75:23, 76:22, 83:5, 93:13, 96:28

Station [13] - 24:2, 24:5, 25:21, 27:8, 28:9, 34:19, 34:29, 76:18, 78:7, 79:11, 82:10, 88:11, 94:23

station [25] - 2:25, 22:6, 25:2, 25:6, 26:16, 33:1, 76:5, 77:22, 79:2, 79:13, 80:8, 80:12, 80:19, 82:12, 82:15, 83:27, 85:5, 88:14, 94:29, 108:3, 115:23, 132:1, 134:3, 136:9, 147:10

stationed [1] - 53:6stay [5] - 39:2, 112:19,

112:21, 117:3, 118:30stayed [4] - 50:7, 111:29,

121:1staying [2] - 39:12,

132:29step [2] - 111:13, 126:12Stevens [1] - 136:6stick [1] - 10:25still [29] - 28:22, 35:27,

38:21, 59:19, 59:28, 60:1, 60:6, 60:18, 63:30, 66:10, 84:8, 98:18, 98:20, 99:26, 99:29, 100:20, 100:25, 100:27, 106:24, 111:3, 117:7, 118:5, 118:6, 123:3, 127:17, 132:7, 144:25

sting [1] - 153:30stolen [1] - 3:14stop [8] - 97:8, 123:18,

125:11, 151:13, 151:18, 151:21, 152:17, 160:25

stopped [4] - 97:7, 125:8,

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125:10, 141:6stops [1] - 150:28storage [4] - 154:6,

154:12, 154:19stored [1] - 18:26stories [11] - 17:30, 20:3,

61:21, 61:23, 68:4, 98:23, 99:29, 99:30, 103:20, 143:9, 156:11

story [25] - 18:3, 23:29, 26:16, 26:19, 31:29, 34:17, 46:10, 59:23, 60:13, 69:3, 69:5, 69:12, 69:18, 87:4, 89:30, 99:4, 99:11, 99:12, 99:18, 99:23, 100:11, 100:12, 135:12, 155:26, 155:28

straight [4] - 68:4, 148:11, 148:23, 152:26

straightaway [2] - 129:14, 137:14

Street [1] - 120:21street [10] - 2:25, 41:2,

41:17, 83:30, 84:3, 97:4, 97:9, 106:16, 106:19, 136:11

streets [1] - 137:20stressful [1] - 144:28string [1] - 29:18strong [1] - 118:20stuck [1] - 123:23stuff [24] - 4:9, 6:27, 18:6,

18:30, 20:4, 21:11, 21:22, 23:29, 36:24, 38:17, 39:15, 39:17, 39:25, 41:15, 73:22, 88:29, 94:15, 99:3, 120:1, 144:1, 146:30, 150:3, 151:12

submit [1] - 107:7subsequent [1] - 156:22subsequently [2] - 58:15,

160:6subsistence [1] - 101:30substantiate [1] - 19:10substantive [1] - 76:21subversive [2] - 50:16,

51:3successful [1] - 44:14sudden [1] - 134:17suddenly [1] - 125:22suffered [1] - 106:10sufficient [1] - 81:5suggest [26] - 10:1,

11:22, 19:4, 29:4, 32:29, 34:18, 45:6, 47:12, 47:14, 55:3, 55:11, 55:16, 59:14, 65:5, 65:20, 66:30, 67:6, 67:10, 71:29, 78:22, 85:23, 93:3, 108:27, 138:24, 160:5, 161:4

suggested [2] - 150:23, 159:3

suggesting [3] - 45:24, 55:7, 59:8

suggestion [4] - 18:10, 126:2, 159:6, 159:14

suggests [1] - 68:22suited [1] - 90:12sum [2] - 121:7, 121:9summer [1] - 126:2Sunday [10] - 69:2, 69:13,

69:17, 69:21, 98:27, 99:7, 155:22, 155:23, 156:2

Superintendent [16] - 19:18, 19:19, 24:27, 24:28, 36:15, 45:12, 46:2, 55:30, 73:5, 76:10, 76:11, 102:12, 139:7

supplied [1] - 3:15supply [1] - 159:13supplying [3] - 152:20,

159:10, 159:17support [1] - 43:14suppose [4] - 100:3,

118:25, 118:29, 136:29supposed [5] - 46:29,

107:17, 133:18, 143:13, 154:11

supposition [1] - 87:12surely [1] - 105:15surname [1] - 131:16surprise [1] - 97:1surprised [2] - 64:26,

141:15surprising [1] - 5:7surrounding [1] - 153:4surveillance [3] - 156:25,

157:29, 158:2survive [1] - 101:30suspect [3] - 57:6,

140:14, 157:12suspected [3] - 94:30,

143:20, 150:14suspecting [1] - 146:13suspects [1] - 133:23suspicion [2] - 122:10,

126:27swallowed [1] - 61:27swim [1] - 137:12switch [4] - 123:16,

123:19, 130:19, 137:21switchboard [1] - 127:8switched [1] - 151:9sworn [2] - 1:13, 1:14system [2] - 154:15,

155:14Síochána [3] - 102:2,

109:8, 155:1

Ttablet [3] - 153:19,

153:21, 153:27tablets [5] - 153:17,

153:18, 153:23, 154:18, 155:2

talkative [1] - 122:2tall [5] - 29:12, 29:14,

29:16, 29:17, 29:21taller [2] - 29:15, 29:22

tamper [1] - 18:30tank [1] - 112:30tape [3] - 137:25, 137:26taped [1] - 143:10target [2] - 70:9, 84:9targeted [3] - 145:24,

147:22, 154:17targeting [3] - 152:12,

153:9, 158:16task [3] - 88:26, 128:22,

128:25taught [5] - 104:24,

114:14, 122:3, 122:16, 129:12

tea [1] - 110:14teach [4] - 113:9, 113:11,

122:18teaching [2] - 113:11,

113:12Teague [1] - 101:8team [13] - 14:3, 27:1,

27:17, 28:29, 29:3, 45:11, 61:2, 67:17, 67:19, 68:7, 132:30, 143:1, 153:11

teams [1] - 40:19teatime [2] - 75:8, 135:9technical [1] - 43:14teeth [2] - 30:17, 30:19Telegraph [1] - 135:12telephone [3] - 40:13,

108:9, 139:26telephoned [3] - 76:16,

78:5, 108:1television [3] - 26:25,

149:22, 149:24televisions [1] - 119:8ten [9] - 79:11, 79:21,

80:1, 80:2, 80:21, 82:10, 82:30, 83:27, 106:6

tended [1] - 156:14term [1] - 143:16terminate [1] - 152:10terminated [2] - 152:6,

152:12terms [6] - 2:29, 18:8,

84:23, 92:21, 95:28, 97:23

terrorist [3] - 34:3, 138:8, 154:18

terrorists [1] - 144:12testing [1] - 88:29that.. [1] - 37:24THE [8] - 1:1, 81:24, 82:1,

109:5, 162:10THEN [1] - 81:24then-Unity [1] - 70:10theory [1] - 143:11therefore [7] - 13:13,

91:13, 97:28, 97:29, 138:11, 140:12, 157:14

thin [2] - 29:26, 29:27thinking [3] - 77:3, 88:25,

102:9thinks [1] - 143:1third [1] - 19:20thirds [1] - 120:15

thousand [2] - 121:13, 121:14

thousands [1] - 124:23threatened [1] - 142:3three [23] - 13:5, 19:16,

19:22, 24:26, 27:22, 27:23, 28:20, 28:21, 33:3, 36:11, 39:29, 60:17, 68:9, 79:14, 88:11, 112:16, 113:3, 120:19, 126:12, 129:16, 142:14, 150:28, 151:5

throughout [1] - 97:23thugs [2] - 67:17, 67:19tie [2] - 37:3, 48:28tied [4] - 68:10, 72:10,

72:12, 72:16tip [9] - 46:19, 46:25,

46:29, 47:10, 56:17, 56:19, 64:10, 85:5, 87:13

tip-off [4] - 56:17, 56:19, 85:5, 87:13

tipped [10] - 39:19, 40:6, 47:13, 62:21, 80:2, 80:3, 80:5, 82:15, 82:29, 84:16

tipping [1] - 62:17title [2] - 2:12, 72:18TO [1] - 2:1to.. [2] - 91:23, 155:15tobacco [1] - 145:17Toby [2] - 90:17, 90:18today [3] - 54:25, 77:16,

85:14together [5] - 80:30,

95:19, 96:2, 129:1, 129:9

toilet [1] - 138:22tom [1] - 54:5Tom [63] - 19:21, 21:22,

45:12, 46:2, 49:6, 49:7, 49:24, 49:26, 52:23, 53:22, 53:27, 53:28, 53:30, 54:6, 55:10, 55:20, 55:22, 55:25, 56:23, 57:3, 58:8, 59:4, 59:9, 62:2, 64:23, 65:1, 65:8, 65:17, 65:22, 65:30, 66:8, 66:22, 67:1, 67:3, 67:7, 67:11, 67:13, 67:14, 67:18, 67:20, 67:22, 68:18, 68:19, 69:26, 70:6, 70:20, 70:24, 71:8, 71:19, 72:1, 72:19, 72:22, 92:15, 92:16, 105:29, 105:30, 106:3, 106:15, 106:18, 106:20, 106:22, 143:2

tomorrow [3] - 161:10, 161:13, 161:15

tonne [1] - 131:4took [42] - 10:22, 10:23,

19:27, 20:23, 36:30, 37:1, 43:20, 43:22, 43:29, 45:22, 50:19, 56:4, 68:6, 68:8, 71:5,

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

16

71:11, 73:10, 73:25, 76:1, 76:12, 77:24, 77:27, 101:10, 105:28, 107:29, 115:7, 122:14, 125:4, 125:27, 129:5, 129:6, 129:11, 132:6, 132:18, 134:7, 137:9, 147:29, 148:15, 148:17, 151:2, 151:11, 160:14

tools [2] - 36:23, 39:26top [1] - 107:1topic [1] - 64:22Torah [5] - 3:15, 3:28,

4:5, 4:17, 4:24torture [1] - 102:22total [1] - 144:4totally [11] - 5:1, 21:18,

36:23, 55:18, 58:14, 76:19, 76:24, 76:27, 93:29, 145:26, 152:20

touch [2] - 38:3, 57:15tough [2] - 106:1, 106:2towards [1] - 126:15town [2] - 110:27, 120:24Town [3] - 126:9, 126:10,

137:10traced [1] - 140:12tracking [4] - 123:26,

124:12, 134:12, 136:30trade [2] - 109:27, 117:21trained [2] - 44:12, 51:11training [6] - 111:3,

112:7, 114:7, 114:13, 114:15, 114:16

travel [2] - 4:1, 4:3travelling [2] - 153:12,

160:6treason [1] - 96:28treated [4] - 100:17,

100:20, 100:23, 100:29TRIBUNAL [4] - 1:1,

81:24, 82:1, 162:10Tribunal [35] - 2:12, 6:2,

7:18, 7:22, 7:26, 8:5, 12:30, 13:4, 32:18, 32:23, 32:26, 33:3, 43:5, 44:30, 45:7, 45:8, 45:10, 45:19, 55:20, 57:28, 58:29, 67:11, 77:26, 78:15, 81:14, 82:21, 85:28, 96:18, 101:20, 102:4, 103:18, 106:23, 107:24, 148:3, 157:19

trick [1] - 20:5tried [3] - 69:30, 151:12,

157:24trigger [3] - 84:1, 84:4,

135:13trigger-man [1] - 84:4trigger-person [1] - 84:1triggers [1] - 130:21trip [1] - 3:12trouble [2] - 43:26, 123:5troubles [1] - 111:23true [4] - 15:8, 18:12,

21:16, 21:18trust [3] - 105:27, 140:30,

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141:2trusted [6] - 5:8, 6:14,

6:18, 7:7, 65:17, 138:20trustworthy [2] - 106:26,

106:27truth [3] - 71:12, 90:1,

117:29try [11] - 8:20, 14:9,

15:10, 37:3, 49:12, 67:4, 88:6, 99:4, 99:26, 99:29, 119:10

trying [6] - 20:5, 59:14, 66:30, 67:12, 74:5, 114:11

Turkey [3] - 3:13, 3:17, 4:16

turned [1] - 152:22TV [2] - 139:10, 149:15TVs [1] - 119:9twenty [2] - 59:10, 79:14twenty-five [1] - 79:14twice [5] - 64:23, 65:12,

97:17, 131:26, 142:12twisting [1] - 28:3two [55] - 3:1, 12:23,

13:5, 16:10, 19:23, 20:6, 22:2, 23:22, 31:2, 33:22, 36:28, 38:23, 56:7, 60:17, 67:6, 67:26, 69:1, 69:9, 73:2, 74:16, 75:20, 76:20, 78:12, 79:10, 79:11, 79:21, 80:1, 80:2, 80:18, 82:10, 82:30, 83:27, 84:11, 86:7, 92:26, 94:3, 94:4, 102:19, 102:28, 104:29, 108:20, 119:13, 120:15, 120:16, 121:14, 122:9, 126:11, 133:11, 142:5, 142:20, 142:21, 142:26, 153:23, 157:15, 160:19

two-door [1] - 122:9two-thirds [1] - 120:15type [23] - 14:22, 19:21,

30:20, 50:1, 50:3, 50:10, 51:2, 51:17, 51:20, 57:19, 89:17, 89:18, 115:24, 118:11, 135:22, 136:11, 137:13, 146:2, 152:28, 153:7, 153:8, 157:26

types [1] - 130:10

UUDR [1] - 59:28UK [2] - 115:12, 115:14Ulster [1] - 6:12ultimately [1] - 121:3um-hmm [1] - 155:3unavailable [1] - 58:14unbelievable [2] -

138:11, 138:24under [11] - 2:12, 7:5,

7:27, 7:29, 84:11, 102:21, 137:5, 137:21, 149:19, 156:24, 157:29

understood [3] - 27:19, 118:12, 151:23

undoubtedly [1] - 156:21unemployment [1] -

110:17unfair [1] - 93:26unfairly [2] - 100:17,

100:20unfortunately [1] - 13:12Union [1] - 122:13union [1] - 122:17Unit [7] - 27:2, 72:23,

72:28, 115:19, 133:16, 143:22, 148:29

unit [12] - 8:18, 8:19, 47:5, 56:12, 56:13, 102:20, 115:19, 133:10, 133:11, 135:15, 135:16, 159:28

units [3] - 81:2, 130:12, 133:18

Unity [2] - 70:8, 70:10unless [4] - 6:6, 65:23,

80:4, 80:6unlicensed [6] - 52:24,

54:3, 54:9, 59:6, 59:11, 59:12

unlikely [2] - 18:19, 18:24unreliable [1] - 135:29UNTIL [1] - 162:10untrue [3] - 159:15,

159:17up [97] - 4:9, 12:10,

12:12, 12:14, 12:18, 14:30, 17:1, 19:21, 24:10, 28:23, 35:14, 38:3, 38:5, 38:16, 41:28, 43:4, 60:19, 60:20, 68:7, 68:10, 70:19, 72:10, 72:12, 72:16, 79:1, 79:24, 80:28, 84:1, 84:5, 84:8, 89:30, 91:17, 93:4, 96:20, 96:27, 97:5, 103:17, 103:18, 105:22, 107:24, 107:27, 109:23, 110:27, 111:13, 112:15, 112:17, 113:6, 114:25, 115:19, 115:28, 116:5, 117:28, 120:4, 120:23, 120:30, 121:27, 123:21, 124:10, 124:29, 125:11, 126:7, 126:24, 126:26, 126:28, 126:29, 127:3, 127:4, 127:7, 128:30, 131:12, 132:5, 132:17, 134:18, 136:7, 140:22, 141:22, 141:23, 145:8, 146:24, 147:7, 148:29, 150:15, 151:7, 151:10, 152:22, 153:10, 153:13, 153:30, 154:14, 155:14, 156:10, 156:26, 157:26, 158:1, 159:4

Vvaluable [3] - 35:6, 55:29,

56:6

value [1] - 147:26van [11] - 66:2, 67:26,

67:28, 68:9, 68:12, 68:16, 72:10, 72:17, 133:21, 133:29, 160:13

vans [1] - 134:2variety [1] - 143:17various [5] - 128:19,

130:25, 132:7, 156:13, 156:23

VAT [1] - 145:17vehemently [1] - 104:23vehicle [3] - 123:27,

134:8, 136:19verify [1] - 58:3vests [13] - 152:15,

152:16, 152:18, 152:20, 152:21, 152:22, 152:25, 152:26, 152:27, 152:29, 153:2, 153:6

Viagra [4] - 153:16, 153:18, 154:18, 155:2

videos [1] - 119:9view [8] - 3:17, 57:30,

71:26, 83:2, 107:9, 116:9, 124:1, 136:29

visit [1] - 111:4visited [1] - 39:2visiting [1] - 110:18Vodack [1] - 140:5Vodafone [1] - 140:6volunteers [6] - 46:23,

85:15, 86:15, 129:26, 143:17

Wwage [7] - 97:30, 101:29,

116:16, 116:19, 118:5, 145:7

wait [1] - 67:28waiting [7] - 84:25, 84:27,

84:30, 85:11, 85:15, 123:20, 126:14

waive [1] - 122:10Walk [1] - 70:8Wall [1] - 112:27wall [1] - 129:30wallpaper [1] - 116:30wallpapering [1] - 116:28Walter [6] - 6:20, 6:21,

6:22, 99:3, 136:2, 157:17

war [2] - 3:14, 109:26Warrenpoint [2] - 94:13,

95:9WAS [1] - 109:5watch [3] - 74:3, 74:8,

74:12watching [1] - 31:25Water [19] - 8:24, 8:28,

9:2, 14:25, 15:2, 16:14, 16:19, 18:1, 18:4, 18:15, 19:5, 19:10, 20:12, 20:19, 21:11, 21:13, 22:8, 23:29, 121:29

wave [3] - 31:1, 31:24,

31:25ways [2] - 114:18weaknesses [1] - 144:16wealthy [1] - 119:3weapons [3] - 5:30,

112:1, 158:15wearing [5] - 57:16,

57:21, 68:15, 153:1, 159:23

website [2] - 69:27, 70:3wee [1] - 115:23week [9] - 62:26, 88:28,

120:16, 120:30, 128:8, 142:12, 142:14, 156:25, 157:30

weekend [4] - 111:16, 111:29, 115:30, 140:25

weeks [9] - 16:10, 49:14, 69:1, 71:9, 87:25, 87:26, 87:28, 89:1, 120:17

well-known [5] - 55:8, 94:20, 95:6, 101:14, 136:26

Wellington [1] - 68:16Wellingtons [1] - 68:15whatsoever [3] - 61:1,

90:16, 93:3whilst [1] - 2:24whole [10] - 60:13, 79:8,

115:29, 116:30, 128:27, 129:12, 141:24, 147:5, 160:20

wife [7] - 96:14, 96:19, 96:24, 99:15, 118:24, 121:2, 140:12

wife's [3] - 139:14, 139:22, 140:27

William [1] - 91:20wind [2] - 39:24, 46:16window [2] - 52:22, 68:5windows [1] - 140:22wing [2] - 80:29, 120:5wings [1] - 120:8wires [1] - 18:6withdraw [2] - 108:22,

108:24withdrew [1] - 1:11WITNESS [1] - 109:5witness [14] - 1:8, 2:11,

2:14, 2:17, 6:1, 13:2, 34:2, 57:25, 81:15, 91:25, 93:28, 151:23, 157:10, 161:21

Witness [18] - 2:12, 2:14, 2:16, 2:17, 2:20, 2:29, 3:24, 4:28, 146:23, 147:10, 148:28, 148:30, 149:1, 149:3, 149:16, 152:21, 155:6, 155:18

witness-box [1] - 13:2witnesses [1] - 5:3wondering [2] - 48:3,

118:25word [11] - 18:22, 39:29,

41:25, 42:3, 89:8, 89:14, 127:14, 151:20

word-for-word [3] -

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

17

41:25, 42:3, 89:14words [11] - 6:20, 28:3,

39:16, 47:2, 75:26, 87:3, 89:10, 89:19, 104:10, 104:12

World [1] - 104:5world [1] - 142:19worn [1] - 57:20worry [4] - 12:28, 13:2,

97:7, 134:9worrying [1] - 135:11worst [2] - 27:9, 56:11worst-kept [2] - 27:9,

56:11Wrexham [5] - 115:15,

115:18, 115:21, 115:23writ [1] - 33:22write [14] - 11:6, 12:20,

14:10, 26:16, 33:8, 33:24, 61:6, 63:12, 64:1, 72:29, 87:16, 91:24, 93:22, 156:30

writers [6] - 12:23, 33:22, 34:28, 34:30, 35:10, 73:2

writes [3] - 91:25, 93:28, 157:10

written [4] - 12:30, 33:21, 76:25, 101:7

wrongfully [2] - 118:28, 120:8

wrote [8] - 11:12, 26:19, 33:12, 52:30, 73:3, 99:5, 157:4

Yyear [19] - 17:27, 23:17,

23:28, 24:5, 24:6, 32:19, 70:12, 71:14, 102:16, 103:22, 103:25, 108:4, 112:22, 119:15, 119:16, 121:5, 131:27, 146:26

years [29] - 5:23, 8:17, 8:24, 10:21, 10:22, 11:23, 13:16, 34:11, 50:21, 50:22, 50:23, 59:30, 60:17, 61:7, 61:22, 77:4, 77:13, 89:12, 100:1, 103:21, 106:6, 112:15, 118:15, 119:14, 124:11, 129:13, 151:16, 157:22, 157:25

yesterday [20] - 2:6, 2:11, 2:18, 5:22, 5:28, 8:7, 19:16, 23:21, 31:1, 32:6, 32:8, 32:12, 36:17, 56:10, 56:11, 67:24, 77:16, 141:18, 154:23, 154:24

yo [1] - 128:11younger [1] - 110:22yourself [17] - 11:23,

34:30, 40:18, 40:24, 44:15, 54:16, 55:8, 57:28, 61:27, 67:13, 88:20, 103:10, 105:23,

Page 183: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the …justice.ie/en/JELR/2011-12-15_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day...2011/12/15  · An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael

Smithwick Tribunal - 15 December 2011 - Day 67

Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.

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108:28, 130:8, 140:13, 158:9

yous [6] - 35:15, 35:19, 65:2, 95:11, 141:12, 145:6

££10 [1] - 153:19£10,000 [2] - 124:27,

125:9£30,000 [1] - 98:29£5 [1] - 153:21£5,000 [2] - 123:1, 123:2£50,000 [2] - 99:7, 99:23