ANDY'S STARTER STORY.DOC JULY 25, 2011

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1985 VF750C-E Honda V45 Magna with starter problems once the bike gets hot

Starts instantly when cold. Runs like a scalded cat all the way to the red line. Idles fine hot too.

Shut it down and try to restart and the starter doesn't turn over. Wait 10-15 minutes and it cranks

and fires right away.

Guess the starter is coming out this weekend. There was an oil leak from the front cover when I bought it and the bottom of the bike was oily all last year. Hopefully a good internal cleaning and a little TLC on the commutator & brushes is all it needs. "Back in the day" I'd just use the kick starter while the starter was out - heck my BSA Starfire only had

a kick starter! Happy in Hondaland, MagnAndy

Here's my update - just finished a test ride and restart when hot - oh GLORY!!!

When I opened the starter up I found that the rubber seals had worked and I didn't have a starter full of oily muck - just a lot of black dust from the brush wear. I cleaned much of the dust out (be careful not to breathe it in). Then I pulled the springs just out of the brush holder and slipped a penny under each brush spring to release the tension on the brushes BEFORE pulling the armature out and removing the brush holder set. I found the brushes at the minimum 1/4" length remaining but more important - TWO BRUSHES HAD MOST OF THE BRAID WORN THROUGH AND ONLY A FEW CONNECTED STRANDS.

A quick trip to the local dealer to order new 'brush holder set' and 'brush terminal set' for about $40 and a few days delivery time. Back home to do some temporary repairs. I cut the few remaining copper strands and drilled a 7/64" hole about 1/16" deep in the side of the brush beside the original attachment point (on the side closest to the commutator). Then I tinned the tip of the braid and hole and soldered the braid into the hole. Repeated same on second damaged braid.

Next a thorough cleaning of all components with paint brush and rag. I used the unsharpened end of an exacto blade to GENTLY scrape between each of the commutator sections and finished with a toothbrushing to clean between the sections. On re-assembly, I reversed the brushes end for end in the holders to load up the springs a bit more

(spring groove in one end). A little grease around the O-ring where the starter fits through the mounting, two 8mm bolts, one wire and a 10mm nut later - Done! A test ride to heat up my steed then home for the critical restart test - success! Even the cold start was much quicker and crisper now that the starter could get full juice from the battery. Now I can stop for gas (or BEER) without having to plan a 20 minute wait. When my parts come in I'll replace my repaired parts and rework them at my leisure by making some new brushes. So many parts have been

discontinued (like the $575 starter!) that I never discard worn parts - they may be a lifesaver later! Happy in Hondaland, MagnAndy

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Do this when the bike is cool as you will be near the front exhaust pipes.

If doing an oil change, drain the oil and remove filter then do the

work on your starter before replacing the oil fil ter. In there pictures a Goldwing oil fil ter is installed as part of the completed ‘oil mod’.

If you place the bike on the centre stand a moderate amount of oil

will leak out of the starter mounting hole – be prepared. If placed on the side stand oil may not leak as much.

Start by GENTLY moving the rubber boot off the nut and back up

the wire. Clymer manual recommends disconnecting the battery negative – I didn’t but I did check to see that there was no voltage

to the nut by measuring between the bared nut and the frame.

If you do have voltage there then you have a additional problem with the starter circuit – disconnect the battery and be ready to sort out the starter circuit issues once this job is finished. There should only be voltage here with the key on

and starter button pressed.

A quick word about tools – I used:

• 10 mm wrench to remove nut clamping the wire,

• 8 mm ¼” drive socket wrench to remove two mounting nuts,

• An old heavy flat blade screw driver as pry bar,

• Phillips head impact wrench and hammer to break free the long screws holding the starter together,

• Regular Phillips screw driver to remove the screws,

• Needle nose pliers to move springs, (not shown)

• 4 pennies to remove spring tension,

• Old paint brush to clean components, (also not shown).

Here are the old and new parts and the Honda OEM part numbers for my 1985 VF750C-E V45 Magna.

For anybody

making their own

replacement brushes they

are 0.193” thick, 0.388” wide, and

0.482” long when new.

Back to the task at hand: Undo the 10 mm nut and remove the wire moving it as little as necessary (old wires tend to crack their insulation if disturbed too much).

Remove both mounting bolts.

Wiggle and worry the starter out. Once it moves a bit it is possible to pry it carefully straight out – this can be a bit

difficult as there is an o-ring seal and the starter shaft is engaged with the starter gear.

Now that it’s out, all the hard work is done – well NEARLY.

STARTER NEAR OIL FILTER

Electrical connection 10 mm nut under

rubber boot

2 @ 8 mm bolts

NO EXOTIC TOOLS NEEDED

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A critical operation is next – removing the three long screws that hold the starter together. These have a Phillips head (cross) and

you really don’t want to damage the heads. There are different sizes and shapes of Phillips head screw drivers – pick one that fits

the head well. If the screws don’t want to break loose fit the screw driver and give it a smart whack with the hammer to seat the driver

in the screw head and shock the screw. If you have am impact driver, use it (like I did) and save the screws. Once loosened,

remove the screws.

Now is a good time to note the alignment marks on the body and each end of the starter. I have highlighted them but they were

clearly visible

GENTLY tap on the back side of each of the mounting lugs to break each end of the starter

body loose. Be careful not to destroy the rubber seals between the casings. You may need to ease them away from the casings with a screw

driver or flat scraper.

Remove the shaft end from the body first, being careful to note the order of

the washers on the shaft. I lay them down on the table in order for, l ike Winnie the Pooh, I am a bear of very l ittle brain.

Note that the bent tabs of the heavy washer face towards the cap.

Next remove the cap from the other end. Take a minute to observe the orientation of the brush holder set and how the small tabs fit into

the starter body

BEFORE removing the armature (centre piece of motor) slip a penny under each of the springs to hold it away from the brushes.

A set of needle nose pliers is very handy to open each spring so the penny can be inserted.

Once the pennies are in place, the armature can be pulled out

through the other end. It is only held in place by magnetic force! Just grab the splined end of the shaft and pull. Be careful not to

damage the windings when the shaft is pulled to one side by the magnets as it is almost out of the body. Do not let go of the armature or it will shoot back into place like a battering ram and can damage the brush holder or brushes.

Do not pull the armature even partly out before installing the

pennies or the springs will snap the brushes forward as soon as they clear the commutator and bearing. This can cause the

brushes or braided wires to be damaged. I have actually seen the brush popped off the wire and sent flying by the force of the spring!

Two of the brush wires are bare copper and provide the path to

ground. These are attached to the brush holder set. The other two have an insulated covering and come through the brush holder set

from below. These provide the power and are connected to the bolt.

Alignment marks

Pennies slipped under springs to remove pressure

from the brushes

TAP GENTLY

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Ease the ‘insulated’ brushes forward into the middle of the holder and upwards set then gently pull the insulated wires outwards until

they clear the slots and the brush holder set can be lifted away from the starter body.

Loosen the nut and remove it and the several washers from the bolt shaft – noting carefully the order of the washers. Carefully push the

bolt in SLIGHTLY then ease the brush terminal set upwards and out of the plastic holder and free of the starter body.

Be very careful when easing the rubber washer off the bolt shaft – you

REALLY don’t want to destroy it and expose all 30 amps of starting current to the grounded starter body. I unscrewed my washer to avoid damaging it.

Yes that took a minute but it is at least a 30 minute round trip to get another one – IF they are even available. Take your time. Be gentle – it pays.

Starting the Re-assembly

A new brush terminal set installed with the pip on the Bakelite

insulator facing upwards and washers in the correct order. Tighten the nut firmly but don’t overdo it – there’s Bakelite and fibre

washers to be considered.

Install the pennies in the new brush holder. Put it in place, correctly

oriented (remember those tabs?). Feed the insulated brush wires into the slots in the holder. Put each brush into the holder located

counter-clockwise from the wire mounting point. Push the brushes all the way in to the penny. Note that one end of the brushes is flat

and the other has a small grove across the centre of it for the spring to sit in – that end goes in first.

I had a little trouble with the bare wires and had to bend their mounting tabs inwards slightly to get enough slack to get

the brush installed. Do not get rough with the brushes and try to force them – it would be a bad thing to rip them off the braid. If you manage to do so in spite of my warning – repeat after me, “I don’t fakwaggin’ believe it, you dill-

headed funk-sniffing blankety blank dweeble dork”. Then go to the Hondaland store and buy another set.

Armature Commutator

Nut

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Now is the time to assess the condition of the commutator – that’s the place where the brushes rub and transfer the power to the

armature windings. If you have a multimeter you can check the continuity between each set of adjacent segments – there should be

continuity. Also check between each segment and the shaft – there should NOT be continuity there.

There is a mica insulator in each slot between the segments. This

should not be above the top face of the contacts. Brush dust can build up in the slots so carefully clean them out by pulling a flat

blade along the slots then give them a brushing with a toothbrush.

If the top face of the segments are very uneven they can be turned or filed down a bit but I usually avoid this as the brushes will quickly

wear to fit the shape and are easily replaceable but a worn out commutator spells big trouble for a DIYer.

It’s time to put the armature back in place SLOWLY against the pull

of the magnets – now is not the time to damage the new brushes or the armature wiring. With the length of the new brushes it can be a

bit tricky to get them all pushed in far enough to go over the commutator. Just take your time. On occasion, your favourite form

of verbal abuse directed at the last two uncooperative brushes can make just enough difference to make everything fit.

Once it’s fully on use the needle nose pliers to hold each spring as

you remove the penny and lower the spring to the brush. Gently rotate the armature to make sure that everything is OK.

A last check of the brush holder alignment, make sure the rubber

seal is in place, and put the second cover on and install the three long screws to hold the starter together. A quick spin of the shaft to

see that all is OK and it’s time to re-install the starter on the bike.

This is where the starter mounts with the splines engaged with the gear. If your starter doesn’t slip in place with only the force you can apply by hand then don’t

force it. It needs some force to overcome the resistance of the o-ring sliding into the bore (hole) and wiggling it helps too but it is a bit of luck if the splines

and gear teeth line up the first time – this may be where the wiggling helps.

You will know the starter is fully seated when the mounting bolt seats in the bottom hole. After both bolts are installed and tightened (before you get heavy

handed with it look at the size of the threads and consider that it is screwing into aluminum) don’t forget to replace the heavy wire and rubber boot on the side

screw. Make sure that the rubber boot isn’t pinched

between the metal connector and the frame or the mounting

bolt for the engine guards. If necessary, loosen the nut and

rotate the wire slightly to clear any obstructions.

That’s it. Test time. Good luck and happy riding!

MagnaAndy Brampton, Ontario, Canada