160- What the Heck Should I Actually Eat with Dr. Mark Hyman · today with someone who I have been...

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Episode160:WhattheHeckShouldIActuallyEat

WithDr.MarkHyman


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyNutritionGenome.Thisisthemostcomprehensivegeneticanalysisonthemarket.Theycover85-plusclinicallyrelevantgenesacrossallofthemajorbiochemicalpathways.Andwhatthatmeansisthatthey'retestingalltheimportantthingsthatcanactuallymakeanepigeneticdifferenceforyou.Thetestalsoincludesa50-pluspagereportthatreallygoesin-depthandgivesfeedbackonyourpersonalgenefunctionandhowtoenhanceyourowngeneexpression.Theanalysisalsoprovidesfoodsthatarebesttoemphasizeandminimize,talksabouttoxinsyou'remorelikelytobesensitiveto,yourgeneticstressresponse,andevenrecommendedbloodworktooptimizeyourgeneticblueprintforlong-lastinghealthandlongevity.Thistestingdoesn'thavetheprivacyconcernsthatsomeoftheotherpopulargenetictestshave,andwejustdidthiswithallourchildren.Theirresultshavebeenreallyhelpfulforcustomizingtheirdietsandsupplements.AndbasicallyforourwholefamilyI,kindof,tookeverybody'sresultsandfoundthecommondenominatorsoffood,andwestarttherenowwithourshoppinglisteachweek.Youcancheckitoutandlearnmoreandgetthetestatwellnessmama.com/go/nutrition-genome.Thatwillalsobeinthepodcastshownotesatwellnessmama.fmforthisepisode.Butonemoretime,that'swellnessmama.com/go/nutrition-genome,G-E-N-O-M-E.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyFourSigmatic.Mykitchenisalwaysstockedwiththeircoffeemushroomblends,theirMatchamix,andtheirstraightmushroomdrinks.FourSigmatichasfiguredouthowtogetthebenefitsofmushroomslikechaga,lionsmane,cordycepsandreishiintodeliciousinstantdrinks.Mycurrentfavoriteistheiradaptogencoffeeblendthathastolsiandastragalus.ButIlovealloftheirproducts.Theyhaveoptionswithorwithoutcaffeinesoifyou’renotacaffeinepersonyoucanfindproductsthatyouwilllove.AndIfindthateventheircoffeeblendsthatdocontaincaffeinehavelessthananormalcupofcoffee.Butdon’tletthisfoolyou.IhavefoundthatIgetsomuchmorefocusandmentalclarityfromthesemushroomblendsthanIdofromregularcoffee,andwithoutthejitters.Theadditionofthemushrooms,whichareconsiderednootropics,meaningthattheyaregoodforthebrainmakesthesesuperfoodblendsmoreeffectiveandmuchhealthierthanjustregularoldcoffee.Ilovethemwithadashofmacadamiamilkpersonally.Ialsolovethatmanyoftheirdrinkmixesareinstantandpackagedintoindividualservingssotheyareperfectfortraveloronthego.Ifyou’relisteningtothis,thenyoucangetaspecialofferjustforlistenersofthispodcastbygoingtowellnessmama.com/go/four-sigmatic.

Katie:Hello,andwelcometotheHealthyMomspodcast.I'mKatiefromwellnessmama.com,andIamheretodaywithsomeonewhoIhavebeenlookingforwardtotalkingtoforalongtime.Dr.MarkHymanisapracticingfamilyphysician,a10-timeNewYorkTimesbestsellingauthor,aninternationallyrecognizedspeaker,educator,andadvocateinthefieldoffunctionalmedicine.Andontopofthat,heessentiallyisaMedicalDirectorattheClevelandClinicforFunctionalMedicine,he'stheFounderandDirectoroftheUltraWellnessCenter,ChairmanofTheInstituteforFunctionalMedicine,theMedicalEditorfortheHuffingtonPost,andaregularmedicalcontributoron"CBSThisMorning,""GoodMorningAmerica,"CNN,"TheDr.OzShow,"andmanymore.

SoDr.Hyman,yournewbookis"Food:WhattheHeckShouldIEat?"AndIlovethisbecauseIfeellikethere'ssomuchhealthinformationthatnobodyactuallyknowswhatthey'resupposedtoactuallypracticallyeatanymoreandthere'ssomuchconflictingresearchoutthereanddifferentdietaryphilosophies.Solet'sstartatthebeginningwhyareweallsoconfusedwiththis?Whereisallthiscomingfrom?Dr.Hyman:Well,it'snowonderthatwe'reconfused,right?Becausewehave,one,complicatedsciencetointerpretaroundattrition.That'shardtodo.Wecan'tdostudieswherewetake10,000people,lockthemupfor30years,givethemadiet,another10,000differentdiet,followwhathappens,right?Puthalfmonth


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paleo,halfamonthvegandiet,seewhathappensafter30years.That'sjustnotgonnahappen.Sowehavetogothroughothersmallerstudies,wehavetoactuallylookatstudiesthatare,youknow,populationstudiesbutthere'saninherentproblemswiththose,right?Wecan'tprovecauseandeffectbycorrelatingvariouspatternsindietwhichiswhatwedo.Wehadpeoplefillupaquestionnaireeveryyearandweseewhathappens.Theproblemisthatthatisnotoriouslyriskytodobecauseyou'redrawingconclusionsfromthingswhereyoucan'tprovecauseandeffect.Becauseeverydaythesuncomesupandyouwakeup,itdoesn'tmeanthey'reactuallyrelatedbutifthere's100%correlation,right?SoIthinkthat'sreallytheissueisthatwehave,youknow,incompletescience.Thesecondthingisthat,youknow,themediaisalwayslookingforthelatestfancyheadlinesandeggsaregoodeggsarebad,coconutoilisgood,coconutoilisbad.Sothey'retryingtosellclicksandadsandit'sjust…it'sunfortunatebecausetheycontributetotheconfusion.Andthen,youknow,wehavedietarypoliciesthatarecompletelydisconnectedfromsciencewhichconfusesevenmorebecausewhatthegovernmenttellsus.Wehavescientistswhoarestilllookingatveryoutdatedscience,forexample,thatallcaloriesarethesame,thatfatsarebadandweendupin,youknow,reallyconfusedstate.Sothewholeideaofmybook,"Food:WhattheHeckShouldIEat?"istotakethescience,toreviewitall.I'vebeendoingthisfor40years,sadtosayI'mthatold,butI'vebeenstudyingnutritionfor40yearsandI'vebeenapplyingitinmedicalpracticeforover30years.Andlookingatalltheresearch,thousandsandthousandsofpapersI'veread,synthesizingitintojustreallysimplepracticalprinciplesthatanswersallthequestionsandcontroversiesthatpeoplehaveaboutnutrition.Katie:Ilovethat.Ican'twaittoreaditandI'dlovetotalkalittleaboutfoodpoliticstoobecauseIknowyou'vedoneresearchhereaswell.AndIgetalotofcommentsfromreaderswhoessentiallythinkthatreallythegovernmenthasourbestinterestsatheartandthey'relike,"No,thisisagainstthegovernment'srecommendations."Sohowdoourcurrentfoodpolicieskindofsupportthisconfusionandthissystemwehave?Dr.Hyman:Thegovernment,therighthanddoesn'tknowwhatthelefthandisdoingsothey'reoftenmakingconflictingadvice.Soalotofourdietarypoliciesaredrivenoffofthedietaryguidelinesandthey'realittlebitcorrupt.AndtheNationalAcademyofScienceswasmandatedbyCongresstoactuallyreviewhowtheguidelinesweredeveloped.AndtheyputareportoutandIthinkthisOctober,Novemberwhichisonline,youcanlookitup,justtypeinNationalAcademyofSciences'dietaryguidelinesandtheybasically…whenyousiftthroughitall,itbasicallysays,"Look,thecommitteemembersareincahootswiththefoodindustry."They'regettingpaidbythem,they'renotexactlyindependentscience-basedrecommendations.Andthesecondtheysaidwastheyignoredhugeamountsofdataonthingsthatcontradictwhattheirguidelinesare,forexample,onsaturatedfat,theycompletelycontradictthemselves.Soit'sverydifficultfortheaveragepersontounderstandwhattoeatifevenourowngovernmentisnotprovidingscience-basedguidelines.Thesecondthingisalotofourpoliciesareatoddswitheachother.Ononehand,youknow,wetellpeopletocutbackonsugar.Youknow,theotherhandwe'repayingforcommoditiestobeproducedlikecornsyrupandwheatflourandsoybeanoilthroughoursubsidiesthatareturnedintojunkfoodwhichthenwepayforwithfoodstampprogramswhichsevenbilliondollars'worthisbasicallyspentonsodathat's20billionservingsayearforthepoorthatthegovernment'spayingforandonthebackendwe'repayingforMedicareandMedicaid.Soweliterally…thetaxpayerspaythreetimestosupportthefoodindustryfromtheconsequencesoftheirfoodtogrowit,toprovideittothepoor,andthentopayforthediseasethat'scausingthebackend.AndthenthefoodlabelsaresoconfusingbecausethefoodindustryisallupintheFDAandcan'tjusthave


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simplelabelslike,"Thisisgoodforyou.Thisisbadforyou.Likestop…"Liketheyhaveinmanyothercountries,it'ssocomplicated.Andthepolicies,forexample,in,youknow,foodmarketingtokids.Weallowthemostawfulfoodtobemarketedtokids,youknow.AndthenontopofthatallofourpublichealthorganizationsthataresupposedtobeprotectingusliketheAmericanHeartAssociationandDiabeticAssociation,NutritionandDieteticAssociation.Theseareallfundedbythefoodindustryifyoujustlookat…followthemoneyyou'llseethere'senormousamountsofmoneypaidtothesegroups.WhyisTrixcerealaheart-healthycerealwhenithasalmostseventeaspoonsofsugarinit?Becauseit'slowfat?Ithasthreedifferentkindsofdyeinit.ThisisnotahealthfoodandyettheAmericanHeartAssociationputsasealofapprovalrightonthere.SoIthinkwehave,youknow,publichealthagenciesthatarecorruptingit,Ithinkthescienceiscorruptbecausefoodindustryfundsscience,soifCoca-Colafundsastudyinobesity,guesswhat?It'sgonnashowthatsodahasnothingtodowithobesity.Andweknowthatstudiesfundedbythefoodindustryare8to50timesmorelikelytoshowapositivebenefitfortheirproduct.Sowehaveconfusedscience,wehaveconfusedpublichealthorganizationsarecorrupt,wehaveconfusedpoliciesandallthatismakingitverydifficultforpeopletoknowwhattoeatandhowtotakecareofthemselves.Andactuallynotonlythatbuttakecareofthebiggercontextinwhichwelive.Imean,foodisconnectedtoeverything,ourfoodsystemisthenumberonecauseofclimatechange,thewaywefactoryfarmanimalsiscrueltothem,itdestroystheenvironment,it'sbadforusandcontributestoclimatechange.Wehaveeducationaldisparitiesbecausekidsareeatingjunkfoodandcan'tfocusinschool.WehaveeconomicstressinthecountrybecauseMedicareMedicaidarebucklingundertheweightofchronicdiseaseandsoonit'lltakeupourentirefederalbudget.And,youknow,we'rejust,youknow,seeingallthesefactorsthatarerelatedtoourfoodsystemandnobodysortofputtingawholestorytogether.Andthat'sreallywhatItriedtodoinmybook"Food:WhattheHeckShallIEat?"justputthestorytogetherandhelpyounotonly,youknow,understandthecontextoffoodbutalsoactuallytoalsotogiveyouanexactguideonwhatyoushouldeatineachcategory.Ifyouwanttoeatmeat,isitokay?Isitnot?Whatkindofmeatshouldyoueat?Whataboutdairy,yesorno?Shoulditbegoatorsheep?Andwhataretheproblemsofdairy?Samethingwithgrains.Aregrainsbadorgood?Whatkindofgrainshouldyoueatandwhy?AndIgothroughreally,reallypractical,practicalinformationonallthis.Katie:Yeah,IloveitandI100%agreewitheverythingyoujustsaidandI...onethingIjustwannaechoiswiththekidsandhavingspecificfoodsmarketedtowardskids,that'sabigsoapboxformeandanissueItalkaboutalotbecausekidsarecapableofeatingrealfoodjustlikegrownupsareanditmakesmecrazythatallthekids'menusassumethatkidswillonlyeatlikefriedchickennuggetsandFrenchfries.Dr.Hyman:Well,there'snosuchthingaskids'menusinmostcountries.InJapan,kidseatJapanesefoodandrawfish.AndinIndonesia,theyeatIndonesianfood,right?InMongolia,theyeatMongolianfood,theydon'thaveakids'menu.And,infact,inChile,there'sanextraordinarynewinitiativehappeningbecausethedoctorwho'sapediatricianisthePresidentandtheVicePresidentoftheSenateisalsoadoctor.Andtheypassedsweepinglegislationwheretheygotridofallthecartooncharactersonallthekidspackagingsothere'snomoreTonytheTigeronFrostedFlakesandtheyhavefunnellabelwarningsjustlikecigarettesonthefrontofthepackagingsayingit'sbadforyou.AndtheyprohibitanyadvertisinginTV,radioorinmovietheatersforanyjunkfoodandtheygotridofallthejunkfoodinschoolsandtheytaxedsodas18%.Sotheyhadmassivesweepingchanges.It'skindofstuffthatwejustnevergetdoneherebecauseweknow,forexample,juston


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thefarmbillalonethere's$500million.That'shalfabilliondollarsspentbylobbyists,600lobbyists,forthisonebill.That'salmost,youknow,almosttwotooneratioalobbyisttocongressmentoactuallyinfluencethesepoliciesthatendupbeingreally,reallycorrupt.Katie:Wow,that'samazingandgoodforthemformakingthosechangesandIthinkthat'sagreatplacetostartbecauseIwannagothroughsomeofthosespecificsandgetyouropinionandyouranswerstothem.Andfirstofall,IwannastartwithsugarbecauseIdon'tthinkanyonewouldconsideritahealthfoodbutthere'sdefinitelypeopleonthespectrumofhowbadtheythinkitis.AndI'vetakenalotofflackinthepastforsayingthatthereisnobiologicalneedforsugarandthatreallythere'snoreasonweneedtoconsumeitandpeoplegetmadatmeandsay..."No,that'snotbalancedandkidsshouldhavetreatsandit'sfine,"butyouareoneofthetopexpertsonthis.Youhaveresearcheditandwrittenaboutitindepth.Socanyoubringclaritytothesugarissue?Dr.Hyman:Yeah,Imean,firstofall,yousaidsomethingveryimportant.Wehavenobiologicalneedforcarbohydrates.Ourbodiesrunperfectlywellwithoutthem.Ifwedon'teatproteinwegetproteindeficiencyandaminoaciddeficiencybecauseweneedthemfromourdiet.Ifwedon'teatfatswegetessentialfattyaciddeficiencybutthere'snosuchthingasacarbohydratedeficiency.Sohumansdon'tneedtoeatthem.Nowthey'refuntoeatandthey'redeliciousandtheycanbepartofourdietbutit'simportanttounderstandthat.Andthesecondthingisit'sthedosethatmakesthepoison,youknow,that'swhatParacelsus,said.Wehaveenormousquantitiesofflourandsugar.Andflour,bytheway,hasahigherglycemicindexthansugar,it'sintablesugar.Soflour,youknow,ifyouhavetwoslicesofbreadit'slikehavingtwotablespoonsormoreinsteadoftwotablespoonsoftablesugarsoyoumightaswellputthesugarinyoursandwichfixingsandbebetteroff.Sowehavenobiologicalneedforitandweeat152poundsperpersonofsugarand133poundsofflour,that'sanenormousamount,thesearepharmacologicdoses.It'sineverything.It'sinourbreakfastcereal,it'sinketchup,it'sinsaladdressing,it'sinprettymucheverything.WhyistheremoresugarinpastasaucethanitisinOreocookies?Imean…SoIthinkwereallyhavegoneoverboardonthis.Andasarecreationaldrug,it'sfine.Havingalittlesugarorsweetonceinawhileisfine,it'slikehavingashotoftequilabutyoudon'twannahave,youknow,alitteroftequilaeveryday,that'sgonnakillyou.Andthesamethingwithsugar,it'sthebiggestcauseofeveryknownmajorchronicdisease,fromheartdisease,todiabetes,tocancer,toobesityevendementiaeven...Soit'sreally,reallypowerfulandwereallyneedtounderstanditasarecreationaldrugandnotasastaple.Katie:Yeah,Ilovethatcomparisonandthesamewithalcoholthat'sagreatcomparison.Therecanbeatimeandaplacetoindulgeinmoderation.Butyouhavetothinkofitthatway,notasastapleofyourdietwhichitisforsomanyAmericanslikeit'safoodgroupessentiallyforalotofpeople.Whataboutmeat?Becauseobviously,youknow,theresearch.Meathasgottensuchabadrapandsomeofmymostvocalcommentariesarevegetariansandvegansinsistingthatallmeatisnotonlycruelbutbadforusandthatitcausescanceranddiabetesand...contributestoclimatechange.Sowhatdoestheresearchactuallysayaboutthatthehealthandenvironmenteffects?Dr.Hyman:Absolutely,it'sgreat.Iwasgonnawriteablogabouthowtoreverseclimatechange.Andso,"Reversingclimatechange:eatmeat."AndIthink,youknow,asaprovocativestatementIwannaexplainit,butessentially,Iwanttobeupto120.Idon'twanttoeatmeatifit'sgoingtokillmeandifit'sbadforme.SoI


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decidedIwasgonnanotlistentoalltheheadlinesbutIwasgonnalockmyselfawayforaweekinaroomwithapileofthebestresearchpapersonmeatandIwasgoingtoreadthemandIwasgonnalookatthefineprintandwhatactuallytheysayandwhattheydon'tandasascientistanddoctor,Ihavetheabilitytodothat.AndIrealizedthereareonlythreearereallythreeissuesonewasmoral.Now,ifyouaremorallyagainstkillinganimalsImean,theJane,theHindutheywon'tsteponaninsect.ImeantheBuddhistsamething,likethat'sareligiousmoralchoiceandeverybody'sentitledtothatandIwouldsupportthat100%.Thesecondisenvironmentalandit'sreal.Sothewayweraiseanimalsisharmfultothem,tousandtotheenvironmentandbothintermsoftheamountofpesticidesandherbicides,intermsoftherunoffofthenitrogenfertilizersinwaterways.It'sdestroyingourecosystemsinwaterways.WehaveadeadzonethesizeofNewJerseyintheGulfofMexicobecauseofthewaywedofactoryfarming.And,ofcourse,it'scruelandinhumaneplustheypumpthemfullofhormones,antibiotics,plustheyfeedthemcornandsoywhichtheyarenotmeanttoeatwhichthenchangesthequalityofthemeatandhasdeleteriouseffectsonus.Butallthat'strue.But,whatwedon'ttalkaboutisthatactuallyhowweraisethebeefmatters.Therewere60millionbuffaloinAmericainthe1800s.Wekilledthemalloff.Buttheyweregrazingandtheywereeatinggrassandtheywerenotcontributingtoclimatechange,infact,theywerehelpingreverseclimatechangebycreatingsoilover20,Ithinkitwas20plusfeetoftopsoilintheMidwestwhenwefirststartedsettlingit.Nowthere's,youknow,afewinches,it'sprettybadbecausewe'vecreatedsoilerosionthewaywefarmandbytillingandthewaywedoanimalhusbandry.Butitturnsoutthatthere'sawholesortofresearchfieldcalledregenerativeagriculturewhichisshowingthatwecanactually,bypropergrazing,and,youknow,basicallygrass-fedmeat,it'sbetterfortheanimals,thequalityofthemeatisfarbetterforusformanyreasonsincludingthekindsoffatsthatareinthereandthenutrientsthatareinthere.Butmoreimportantlythatithelpstobuildsoilwhichisabigproblem.We'velost1.1billionacresofarablelandtodesertoverthelastdecadesbecauseofhowwefarmandbecauseofthefactoryfarmingofanimalsandallofthesethings.Sobyusingtraditionalgrazingpractices,movinganimalsaround,webuildsoiljustlikethebuffalodid,thatactuallycreates,youknow,thesequesteredcarboninthesoil.Andifwedidthisatscale,itwillliterallybringusbacktothepre-industrialtimeofcarbonintheenvironment.Theproblemwiththewaywe'redoingitnowiswedepletesoilevenorganicagriculture.Ifyoueatorganicvegetablesyou'restillcontributingtoclimatechangebecauseyou'rekillingthesoilwhichthencausessoilerosionandthesoilcan'tactuallyholdthecarbonanditcan'tactuallyholdthewater.That'showwe'reseeingdroughtsandfloodsandalltheseweirdweatherpatternsbecausewe'renotactuallytakecarethesoil.Soitturnsoutanimalsareacriticalpartofthecycleandifwedon'tusethemwe'renotbeenabletoreverseclimatechange.Sothat'ssortofwhatImeantbyinareverseclimatechangeeatmeatbutithastobegrass-fedandthere'smuchresearchonthis.Thenthere'shealthissuesandthehealthissuesarereal.Ithinkwhatdoesmeatdo?Isitbadforus?Well,here'sthedealwehavedatafromobservationalstudies.Nowobservationalstudiesarebasicallywheretheygivethousandsofpeopleaquestionnaireeveryyear,"Whatdidyoueat?Whatdidyoueat?Whatdidyoueat?"Andthentheyfollowtheirhealthforalongperiodoftimeandtheyseewhattheydiedofforwhattheygotsickfrom?Andthentheycorrelateit.Now,manyofthesestudiesarehardtodobutwhatwecanseefromthesestudiesliketheNationalInstituteofHealthARPstudywasthattherewasanincreaseintheriskofdiabetesandheartdiseaseandcancerwiththosewhoatealotofmeatinthatstudy,butyouhavetotakeintoaccounthowthestudiesweredoneand


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whentheyweredone.Theyweredoneinaperiodwhereeverybodythoughtmeatwasbad.Soifyouatemeatyoudidn'tcareaboutyourhealthandwhenyoulookatthecharacteristicsofthemeateatersinthosestudiesitwastrue.Theyweremoreoverweight,theyatemorecaloriesaday,theydidn'teatanyfruitsandvegetables,theydrankmore,theysmokemore,theydidn'texercise,theydidn'teatfruitsandveggies,theydidn'ttaketheirsupplements,ofcourse,theyhadmoredisease.Whenyoulookatstudies,forexample,wheretheycompared11,000meateatersandvegetarianswhoshoppedathealthfoodstoresbothhavetheirriskreducedinhalfbecausetheywereeatingmeatinthecontextofahealthydiet.Andmany,manyotherstudiescontradictedandtheeffectisn'tthatgreat.So,forexample,whenyoulookatitaneffectsizeforthosestudies,observationalstudies,itshouldbelikesmoking.Smokingwaslike20tooneor10toone,meaning1,000or2,000percentincreaseintheriskwhichisaprettystrongcorrelation.Thestudiesweseearoundmeatarelike20%,sotherecentoneoncancerandcoloncancersaidtheriskincreasedonprocessedmeat,notregularmeat,butprocessedmeatlikebaconfrom5%backgroundriskto6%risksoit'sa1%absoluteincreaseinrisk.Thewaytheyphraseit,it'sa20%reductioninriskifyoudon'teatprocessedmeatthatsoundsgreatbutthetruthisit'sactuallya1%absolutereduction.Andit'sonlyifyou'reeatingfourpiecesofbaconeverydayyourwholelifethenyouhavea1%risk.Sotheykinda…thestatisticsarechallengingandat20%correlationandobservationalstudyisnotveryimpressive.Sothat'sthechallengeandwhenyoulookatinterventionalstudiesusingmeat,thenlike,forexample,paleostudiesyoucanreversediabetesit'sveryimpressiveandthenumbersgetbetter,musclemassincreases,thecholesterolimproves.SoIthinkfrommyviewlookingatthefactthatwe'vebeeneatingmeatforsincewe'veevolved,thishasbeenahugepartofourdiet.WhenyoulookatthecentenariansattheturnofcenturythatthemostcentenarianswerethePlainsIndians,theybasicallylivedonbuffaloalmostentirelyandtheylivedtohavethehighestratesof100-year-oldpeopleontheplanet.So,yes,youknow,youcanlookatallthedataandyoucanmakeanyargumentyouwantandtherearecountriesandsocietiesthatlivemoreonbeansandtheydofinebutit'sreallyinthecontextofanoverallhealthydiet.Soinmyviewafterlookingatalltheresearch,youknow,andIgothroughthisindepthinthebook"Food:WhattheHeckShouldIEat?"Idonotthinkmeatisaproblem,it'sthewayweeatit.It'snotthemeatitself.It'sthefactoryfarmedmeatandweshouldbeeatinggrass-fed.It'smoreexpensiveforsurebuttherearewaysandItalkaboutinthebooktogetitcheaper.There'sonlinedistributorsthatcutoutthemiddleman.There'swaysyoucanbuyacowsharewhereyoujoinupwithabunchofpeopleandtheysendyoufrozengrass-fedcowsforyourfreezerthatyoucanbuywithotherpeoplesoit'scheaper,sothere'salotofwaystodoitthatarenotgonnabreakthebank.AndIthinkit'simportantthatwesortofrealizewhatthetruthisaboutthisandgetintotherealanalysisofthedetailssoIreallythinkit'sanareathat...AndthenIalsowroteaboutthisin"EatFatGetThin,"IwroteaboutithereandIthink,youknow,weneedtokindamoveonfromthisview.Katie:Yeah,Ithinkthatmakessenseandhopefullyitseemstobemoremainstreamnowthatnobodythinksprocessedmeatishealthyforyou.Anditseemstobethat'sthekey.Eatingmeataspartofourhealthydiet,lotsofvegetables,moderateamountsofmeatandmakingsureit'ssourcedwell.Andthat'sIthinkthat'sthekeyanddefinitelywe'llshowlinkstoyourbookssotheycanfindthat.IfeelliketheotherissuethatgoeshandinhandhereisthecholesterolissuebecauseIhaverelatives,olderrelativeswhostillavoidmeatandeggsandsomanythingsbecauseofthecholesterolbecauseitwassobad.ButfromwhatIknow,thelatestguidelinesactuallyoverturnedsomeofthecholesterolrecommendations.Isthatrightandhowdidthathappenand


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whataretheactualcurrentrecommendationsnowforcholesterol?Dr.Hyman:Well,there'stwothings,oneisdietarycholesterolandthereisbloodcholesterol.SoitturnsoutthatthisisacomplicatedstoryaswellandItalkaboutthiswholefatissue.Firstofall,thegovernmentin2015,eventhoughtheguidelinesarealittlebitcorrupt,theycouldn'tavoidthefactthattherewasnodatathatdietarycholesterolisaproblemorthetotalfatisaproblem.Sotheyreversed35yearsofbadadvicesayingweshouldlimitourdietarycholesterol.Andtheyactuallysaid,"Dietarycholesterolisnolongeranutrientconcern,soyoudon'thavetoworryabouteggwhiteomeletsanymoreoranythinglikethat."Thesecondthingtheysaidis,"Totalfatsisnotaproblem,"theystillsaysaturatedfatisanissueandIthinkthat'sgonnachangeinthenextdietaryguidelinesbecausetheywerecalledoutforignoringhugeamountsofdataaroundthis.Intermsofbloodcholesterol,itturnsoutthat…guesswhatraisesyourbloodcholesterol?It'sactually,itmakesyouhaveacholesterolthat'sthebadkindwhichisIwouldcalliatrogeniccholesterolwhichisthekindthatcausesheartdiseasewhichissmallparticles,lowHDL,hightriglycerides.It'snotfatthatcausesit,it'ssugarandweliterallyhaveacholesterolproductionfactoryinourliverthatisstimulatedbytheincreaseincarbohydrateandsugarinourdiet.Sothisisreallyacriticalaspectofbiology,thisisjustbasicbiochemistry,itcanbeanyphysiology,buyachemistrytextbook.Whenyoueatstarchandsugarthere'saprocesscalledlipogenesisthatturnsonintheliverthatendsupproducingthewrongkindsofcholesterol.Andasyoulookattheresearchit'ssugar,notfatthat'scausingheartdisease,that'scausingdiabetes,that'scausingcancer,that'scausingdementia.Andsowhenwetrytofixyourcholesterolthebestthingistoactuallytoeatmorefatandtoeatlesscarbs.Now,certaintypesoffatlikesaturatedfat,somepeoplemayhaveissueswith,theymayactuallyneedtoeatlesssaturatedfatgeneticallybutformostofuseatingsaturatedfatsimprovesthequalityofourcholesterol.Andifyoulookattheselargestudiesthere'sapurestudywhichjustcameoutrecently,itwasIthinkof135,000people,18countries,fivecontinents,foundoveralongperiodoftimethatthosewhoateanimalproteinfathadfarlessheartdiseaseanddiseasethanthosewhohadcerealgrains.Anotherhugestudy,42countriesstudy,lookingatfoodconsumptionpatternsin42countriesovermanyyearsfoundthatpeopleeatanimalfatandproteinhavefarlesscardiovasculardiseasethanpeoplewhoatecerealgrainsandpotatoes.Anotherstudy,245,000peoplelookingatvegans,vegetariansandomnivoreshadnodifferenceintheiroutcomes.SowejusthavetolookattheweightoftheevidencehereandIthinkthatthisisreallytheimportantthingtounderstandthatit'snotthenumbers,theabsolutenumbersofcholesterol,it'sactuallywhatqualitytheyare.Andthequalityofyourcholesterolgetsbettereatingtherightfatsanditgetsworseeatingstarchandsugar.Andwe'vegottofocusonLDLcholesterolbecausethestatindrugwhichtreatsthatbutthat'snotthebeallandendall.It'sreally,youknow,75%ofpeoplewhowalkintotheemergencyroomwithaheartattackhavenormalLDLcholesterolandnotbecausethey'retakingthestatin.SowehavetokindofrethinkthisalittlebitandreviewitandIdotalkaboutallthisinmybook"Food:WhattheHeckShouldIEat?"soit'sconfusingbutit'ssoeasytosortthroughonceyouunderstandthebiologyofit.Katie:Andthatmakessenseand,yeah,I'veevenseensomeofthedatathatforwomenatleastlikehighercholesterolwascorrelatedagainnotcausationbutcorrelatedwithalongerlifespan.SoI'mgladthatwe'relookingatthisagainandnotjustassumingallcholesterolisbadcholesterolatthispoint.


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ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyNutritionGenome.Thisisthemostcomprehensivegeneticanalysisonthemarket.Theycover85-plusclinicallyrelevantgenesacrossallofthemajorbiochemicalpathways.Andwhatthatmeansisthatthey'retestingalltheimportantthingsthatcanactuallymakeanepigeneticdifferenceforyou.Thetestalsoincludesa50-pluspagereportthatreallygoesin-depthandgivesfeedbackonyourpersonalgenefunctionandhowtoenhanceyourowngeneexpression.Theanalysisalsoprovidesfoodsthatarebesttoemphasizeandminimize,talksabouttoxinsyou'remorelikelytobesensitiveto,yourgeneticstressresponse,andevenrecommendedbloodworktooptimizeyourgeneticblueprintforlong-lastinghealthandlongevity.Thistestingdoesn'thavetheprivacyconcernsthatsomeoftheotherpopulargenetictestshave,andwejustdidthiswithallourchildren.Theirresultshavebeenreallyhelpfulforcustomizingtheirdietsandsupplements.AndbasicallyforourwholefamilyI,kindof,tookeverybody'sresultsandfoundthecommondenominatorsoffood,andwestarttherenowwithourshoppinglisteachweek.Youcancheckitoutandlearnmoreandgetthetestatwellnessmama.com/go/nutrition-genome.Thatwillalsobeinthepodcastshownotesatwellnessmama.fmforthisepisode.Butonemoretime,that'swellnessmama.com/go/nutrition-genome,G-E-N-O-M-E.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyFourSigmatic.Mykitchenisalwaysstockedwiththeircoffeemushroomblends,theirMatchamix,andtheirstraightmushroomdrinks.FourSigmatichasfiguredouthowtogetthebenefitsofmushroomslikechaga,lionsmane,cordycepsandreishiintodeliciousinstantdrinks.Mycurrentfavoriteistheiradaptogencoffeeblendthathastolsiandastragalus.ButIlovealloftheirproducts.Theyhaveoptionswithorwithoutcaffeinesoifyou’renotacaffeinepersonyoucanfindproductsthatyouwilllove.AndIfindthateventheircoffeeblendsthatdocontaincaffeinehavelessthananormalcupofcoffee.Butdon’tletthisfoolyou.IhavefoundthatIgetsomuchmorefocusandmentalclarityfromthesemushroomblendsthanIdofromregularcoffee,andwithoutthejitters.Theadditionofthemushrooms,whichareconsiderednootropics,meaningthattheyaregoodforthebrainmakesthesesuperfoodblendsmoreeffectiveandmuchhealthierthanjustregularoldcoffee.Ilovethemwithadashofmacadamiamilkpersonally.Ialsolovethatmanyoftheirdrinkmixesareinstantandpackagedintoindividualservingssotheyareperfectfortraveloronthego.Ifyou’relisteningtothis,thenyoucangetaspecialofferjustforlistenersofthispodcastbygoingtowellnessmama.com/go/four-sigmatic.

Katie:AnotherthingthatIgetalotofquestionsaboutandI'mreallycurioustoyourtakeisthewholepaleoideaofweshouldavoidgrainsandbeansandeatmorelikeourancestorsdidapparently.AndI'dlovetohearwhatyouthinkonthisandwhereyoufallbecauseIknowIdofeelbetterwhenIavoidcertainthingsandthatismyowndietaryvariation.Likeyoumentionedwithcholesterol,likeIhavetheFTOgenessoIamoneoftheonesthathastoavoidlargeamountsofsaturatedfatsironicallybecauseIthinksaturatedfatsarehealthyforyoubutI'mcurious.Sowheredoyoufallonthegrainsandbeansissue?Dr.Hyman:Iguessindividual,firstofall,it'slikewhatgrainsareweeating?Youknow,whatbeansareweeating?AndIthinkyouknow,werecentlyjuststartedeatingtheseabout10,000yearsagowiththeagriculturalrevolution.Weneverhadthesebeforesothey'rekindanewandwhenyoulookatsomeofthearchaeologicalrecordswedoseethattheskullstructureandotherthingschangeandourbrainchangeswhenweswitchfromhuntingandgatheringtoeating,youknow,monocropsandgrains.Andweusedtoeat800speciesofplantsashunters-gatherers.Sothere'sthatandthenthesecondthingisthatforsomepeopletheycanbeaproblemandwehavewholegrains,wehadheirloomgrainsformillenniaandthenalloversuddeninthe1800swestartedtorefinegrains.


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Westartedtomillthemandthenwestartedtofeedthemtoprisonersandchickensevenandtheywereallgettingsickbecausetheywereallsonutritionallydeficientfromhavingtheserefinedgrainslikerefinedriceorrefinedflour.Now,weeachconsumeabout133poundsofflourayearandit'smostlyfromwheatandit'smostlyfromdwarfwheatwhichisproblematicbecauseithasasuperstarchinitcalledamylopectinAwhichraisesyourbloodsugarmorethantablesugar.Ithasmuchhigherlevelsofglidingproteinswhicharesuperinflammatoryandleadtomuchmoreissuesaroundceliacdiseaseorglutensensitivity.Andthey'realsosprayedwithglyphosatewhichisattheendoftheircyclewhichisapowerfulherbicidecalledRoundupthatisleftontheplantsandweconsumethatwhichisharmfultous.Andlastly,oncetheflourismilledtheyputincalciumpropionatewhichisapreservativethatreallyturnsouttobeaneurotoxinandinanimalmodelscancreateautismbycreatingthisneurotoxiceffect.SoformanyreasonseatingwheatweeatinthiscountryisprettybadnoneGMOwheat,heirloomwheat,youknow,nonepreserved,inthewaywepreserveit.Thosecanbeokayforsomepeople,liketheycanprobablytoleraterye,theycantoleratebarley,theymightbeabletotoleratecornwheat.Idon'tthinkweshouldbeeatingalotofthemodernwheattotellyouthetruthandIthinkthatthat'sreallythemaingrainpeopleeatinpasta,bread,cereals,bakedgoods.Andthat'sreallyahugeissue.Nowthereareothergrainsthatcanbepartofadietandstillbehealthfulthings,likeTafandAmaranthandquinoaandbuckwheat,blackriceoneofmyfavorite.Theseareallancientgrains,someofthemarenon-grains,wildriceisaseed,forexample,sowecanconsumethese.Again,ifyou'rediabeticifyou'reoverweightwhichis75%ofAmericans,ifyouhavegutissues,ifyouhaveautoimmuneissuesyoumightnottolerateitaswell.AsfarasbeansgoIthinkthatagainsoit'spersonalized.AsfarasbeansgoIthink,youknow,beansareokaybuttheydohavesomeissuesandalotofpeoplehavetheydigestivestruggleswiththem.Theycancausefermentationandovergrowthofbacteriaand,youknow,wesaythatthebestsourceofplantproteinwhichistruebut,youknow,youhavetoeatthreecupsofbeanstoequalonesix-ouncepieceofchickenorsteakorsalmon.That'salotofbeansandthetruthisaswegetolderweneedmoreandmoreproteininordertomaintainourmusclemassandwelosemusclemass,weagefast,wegetweak.AndwegetallthesechronicdiseasesthatcomewithlowmusclemasslikediabetesandheartdiseaseandcancersoIthinkit'simportantthatweactuallylookintelligentlyatwhatweshouldbeeating.Katie:Yeah,thatseemslikeareallybalancedapproachandIthinkyou'resoright.Thatthere'sabigdifferencebetweeneatinglikeawholegrainlikeoatmealorriceversusmostpeoplewhentheysaytheyonlyeatgrain,it'sreallyjustprocessedflourmostofthetime.Whataboutdairy?Becausethat'sanotheronethatseemstobeproblematic.Igetalotofmomswritinginwithkidshavingreactionstodairyortheirfacesgettingredorgettingrashes.ButtheguidelinescurrentlyIthinkstillrecommendacoupleglassesofmilkadayforkidssowhat'sthetruthaboutdairythesedays?Dr.Hyman:Well,thedairyweeatisn'tdairyweate,youknow,IthinktherearepopulationsthatliveondairyliketheMassaibuttheseare,youknow,grass-fedcows,they'reheirloomcows,they'renotthewaywehavethemnow.Sodairyissomethingthatisunusualforanimalstoconsumeafterweaning.We'retheonlyanimalthatconsumesdairyafterweaning.Now,theproblemisthatthedairyweareeatingisalsoahugeissue.It'smostlycowdairy.Itcomesfromhybridizedcowsthathavehighlevels,alsocalledA1caseinwhichasuper-inflammatory.Ithasbeenlinkedtoeverythingfromcancer,toosteoporosis,todigestivedisorders,to


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autoimmunedisease.Evenskimmilkcausesweightgain,believeitornot,becauseyou'rehungryandthere'snofat.Sothere'salotofdatathatquestionsthebenefitsofhumansconsumingmilkandalotofpeoplegetearinfectionsandeczemaandallergiesandallsortsofstufffromitandit'sreal.Now,theA1caseinisbad.A2caseinfrom,forexample,goatsmaynotbeasbad,itmightbebettertolerated.Ifyou'reeatingdairyitshouldbegrass-fedandnotgrassfinishedbutgrass-fed.Andthere'snotthatmuchoutthere.Grass-fedbuttermaybeokay,it'snotthefatthat'stheprobleminit,it'smoreofthecaseinthatcanbetheprobleminaway.Ifyouwanttogetnone,youcaneatgeewhichisaformofdairythathasnocaseinorwhey,it'sjustactualfatwhichissortofclarifiedbutter.ButI'mnotabigfanofdairy.Ithinkthere's,youknow,isalotalotofrecommendationsthatweeatif.We'resupposedtohavethreeglassofmilkadayaccordingtothegovernment.Theproblemisthatthere'snoevidenceforthatandtwoofthetopnutritionistsintheworld,atHarvard,Dr.WillettandDr.Ludwigwroteaneditorialsaying,"Now,where'stheproof?"Youknow,threeglassofmilkadaythere'snoevidenceforthatandthisispartofwhytheNationalAcademyofSciencescamedownhardonthedietaryguidelinescommitteebecausetheysayweshoulddrinkthreeglassofmilkadayandthere'snoevidence.SoIthinkI'mnotabigfanofdairy.Ithinksomecanbeokay.Ithinkifyou'regonnahaveit,itshouldbesheeporgoat,shouldbegrass-fed,itshouldbe,youknow,thefatsarefine,it'snotlowfat,weshouldbeeatingit'sproblematic.AndIthink,youknow,againIwrotealotaboutthisinmybook"Food:WhattheHeckShouldIEat?"butthereis,youknow,theissuearounddairyfarming.Imeanthere'sawholeseriesofissues.But,bottomline,Idon'tthinkweshouldbeconsumingmuchdairy.Itcontributesalotofissues.SomepeoplecantoleratesomeamountsofitbutIstickwithgrass-fedorsheeporgoat.Katie:Yeah,thatseemslikeanareawherethere'sdefinitelysomelobbyingdollarsbehinditaswell.BecauseIdefinitelyseealotofcommercialsfor,youknow,cheeseanddairyand“GotMilk”andallthatstuff.Dr.Hyman:Doyouknow,thiswasaproblemishowthisstartedwasthatthiswasreallyarecommendationforeatingdairyinthefirstdietaryguidelinesin1980.AndtheDairyCouncilgotfuriousandtheylobbiedthegovernmentandtheyformedthisdairypromotionNationalDairyPromotionBoardwhichwasthegovernment-fundedtaxpayer-fundedpromotionfordairy.Soallthe"GotMilk"adsguesswhopaidforthose?Itwasusand,youknow,yeah,andsoalotofthepropagandaarounddairyintheadsactuallycomefromtaxpayermoneyso.It'sahugeproblemandIthinkwedon'tunderstandwhywe'reseeingsomuchofitbutit'sreallysocorrupt.Katie:That'scrazyandIknowthatbecameitsownlikefoodgroupinthatoriginalfoodpyramidthewholedairy.AndIknowalotofpeoplewhostillthinkeggsareactuallydairybecausetheyendedupinthesamepartofthefoodgroupasthedairyontheoriginalfoodpyramidwhichiscrazy.SoanotherquestionIwantedtomakesureIaskyoubecauseIgetalotofquestionsandthesearesuperpopularrightnow.Allofthesmoothiedietsandjuicingdietsandjuicingcleansesthatareallsopopular.Doyouseeatimeandaplacefortheseandarethereanyconcernswithlike,forinstance,justconsumingjuices?Dr.Hyman:Forsure,Imean,dairyisonetopicbut,youknow,peoplethink,"Oh,I'mgonnahavegreenjuices."But,youknow,twoofthebiggestcompaniesthatareouttherepromotingthesedrinksarelikecalledOdwallaandwhatisit,Naturesomething.Andthey'rePepsiandCokebasicallyandtheyhavemoresugarthanmostlyevenacanofCokeorsodawhichisprettyfrightening.SoIthinkwereallyneedtosortofbecarefulaboutwhatwe'reeating.Ifwe'rehavinggreenjuices,lookatthebottle.Ifitsays,youknow,carbohydrates,sugars,


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becausetheyputalotoffruitinthere,itcanhavemorethanasoda.SoIthinkgreenjuicesareawesomebutthatmeans,youknow,notalotoffruitorverylittleornone.SoIhavelike,youknow,kale,collard,spinach,celery,cucumber.Youcanputinmaybeatinylittleapple,ginger,lemon,thosearefine.Butwhenyoustartgettingallthesejuicesthataresosugary,thejuiceisbadandmaybeevenworsethanwethinkforus.SoI'mnotabigfanofthat.Smoothiesarebetter.Youcanthrowinwholefoods,soImakeavegetablesmoothie.Ihavearecipeinmybook.But,youknow,Iputingreensandceleryandlemon,avocado,it'screamyandit'sagreatvegetablesmoothietohaveinthemorningbutIthinkthesehugeamountsoffruitsmoothieswithtonsoffruitalsoisjustanotherformofsugarthatIworryabout.Katie:Right.Andwiththesmoothie,itseemslikeatleastitkeepsthefibers,isthatright?Andithelpsslowdowntheinsulinresponse?Dr.Hyman:Forsure,yeah,Imeanifyouhaveanapplejuicehowmanyappleswillittaketogetthatmaybefiveapples?Youarenotgonnaeatfiveapples,you'regonnabetoofull.Soalsothesamethingwithsmoothiesifyouputthewholefruitinthereyou’repulverizingitalittlebitandit'salittlebitabetterbutyouknow.Katie:Yeah,soyoudon'twannamakethatyourwholediet.SoIwannagetpractical.Sobasically,we'vegonethroughallthesedifferentfoodsandIwannatalkalittlebitaboutweightlossbecauseyousaid75%ofAmericaisoverweight.AndalltherecommendationscomingoutofthegovernmentareprettymuchjustlikeeatlessandmovemoreandIknowyou'vebrokenthisdowninseveralofyourbooksthatIhavereadoverthepasttwoyears.Butbasically,yousaythatit'snotabouthowmuchyoueatbutwhatyoueat.Sotalkaboutthatmoreandinlightofallthatwe'vejusttalkedabout,howcanpeoplelikeloseweightintoday'sworld?Dr.Hyman:Well,thisisahugeproblem.We'veallbeenbrainwashedtobelievethatit'scaloriesandcaloriesout,eatless,exercisemore.It'swhatthegovernmenttellsus,it'swhatscientiststellus,nutritionists,doctors,it'swhatthefoodindustrytellsus.AndifthefoodindustryisonboardyougottowonderaboutthatandtheycreatesomethingcalledtheGlobalEnergyBalanceNetworkwhichwasabasicfrontgroupwheretheypaidscientists,Coca-Colapaidscientists,startedthiswebsite.Andbasically,aretellingpeopleit'sallaboutenergybalance,allaboutmoderationthat,youknow,Coca-Colacanbepartofahealthydietaslongasit'sinmoderation.Thisisjustnonsense.Thequalityofthefoodyoueatmattersandthisisnotmyoption,butthisisbasicbiology.Whenyoueatsugarandstarchyouincreaseinsulin,itstartsacycleofcravings,fatsstorage,slowsmetabolismandlocksthefatinthefatcell.Whenyoueatfatinalowsugarcarbdietitdoestheopposite,itactuallystimulatesfattobereleasedfromyourfatcells,itcutsyourhungerandspeedsyourmetabolism.There'sarandomizedcontroltrialwheretheygavepeopleunrestricteddiet,theycaneatasmuchastheywantedofahigh-fatlow-carbdiet.Andanothergrouptheygaveverycalorie-restricteddietwhichwaslow-fathigh-carbandhealthycarbs.Andafterayeartheyfoundthatthepeoplewhocouldeatasmuchastheywantbutjustatemorefatandlesscarbsdidfarbetterineveryway,moreweightloss,morebloodsugarnormalization,bettercholesterol.Soit'snotaboutthecaloriesandtheyalsodonestudieswithpeoplewithexactlythesamecaloriesbutfromlet'ssay60%carbs10%fator60%fat10%carbsandthehigh-fatgroupburned330caloriesmoreadaywhichislikerunningforanhour.Soit'sverypossiblebyeatingtherightfoodandchoosingwhattoeatyouwoulddofarbetterthantryingtolimitcaloriesorcountcalorieswhichisimpossibleanyway.SoIthinkthisisoneofthebiggestmissonthepopulationbecauseitblamesthefatperson.Ifyouare


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overweightit'sbecauseyou'reovereatingtoomuchandnotexercisingenough,inotherwords,you'realazyglutton,andit'syourfault,you'refat.Oh,that'sjustsofarfromthescientifictruthwhichiswhyIsortofwriteaboutthis.AndDr.Ludwig,fromHarvard,isreallyoneoftheleadingscientistsinthisareaandhe'stalkedaboutthisaswell.Soit'sreally,reallyimpressivewhenyoulookatthedataandwehavetochangeourthinking.There'snowstudiesthatarebeingpublishedintheJournalofTheAmericanMedicalAssociationshowingthat,infact,peoplewhoareeatingketogenicdietscanreversediabetes,getofftheirmedication.It'sreally,reallyimpressive.Katie:Thatwasactuallygonnabemynextquestionforyouisinlightofnoteatingcarbohydrateswhatdoyouthinkaboutketo?BecauseI'veexperimentedwithitandcyclingit,butmytakeatleastisthatIthinkit'sgreatbutpeopledoitwrong.Ithinkalotofpeoplethinkit'slikeabaconandporkrinddietandtheyjusteatallthecheesebecauseit'sketo.Andtomelikeketoshouldbelikehalfgreenveggiesatleast,butIlovetogetyourtake.Whatdoyouthinkofketorightnow?Dr.Hyman:Yeah,well,Ithinkketogenicdietshavebeenaroundforawhile,they'vebeenusedtotreatepilepsythatdoesn'trespondtomedications.Butincreasinglybeinglookedatastreatmentforcancer,forreversingdiabetes,forAlzheimer's,forautism,formany,manyconditions.It'simpressivewhenyouseethedataonthis.Now,thisisnotforeverybody.We'retalkingabouta70%fatdietandit'skeythatyouhavetoeatenoughrealfoodandit'snotaboutjust,youknow,poundingdownthecream.It'sreallyaboutunderstandinghowtoeatareallyhealthydietwithalotofgoodfat,solotsofplantfoods,lotsofvegetables,goodqualityanimalproteinandlotsoffats.AndyoucandoitinahealthywayoryoucandoitunhealthywayandIthinkalotofpeopledo.Katie:Yeah,forsure.Ithinkpeopledon'trealizetoowhenyou'retalkingaboutketowhichcouldbelikeupto60%oreven80%fatthatvolume-wisethat'sstillasmallamountoffatcomparedtothevegetablesyoucaneatonthat.Likethere's80%ofyourplateisoliveoilthatmeansyouhaveatonofvegetableswithsomeoliveoil.Dr.Hyman:Exactly,sobyvolumeprobably70%ofyourdietisplantsandbycalories,70%ofyourdietisfat,right?Katie:Yeah,exactly.Sookay,let's...IwannatalkaboutwhatyoutalkaboutinthebookwhichisawesomewhichyoucalledthePegandietwhichIlovebecauseit'snotreallyadietit'saphilosophybutIfind...Dr.Hyman:It'skindofjoke,it'saspoof,right?It'saspoof.Youneedtogetonpaleoandtheextremismthateverybodyhasand,youknow,listen,ifyoubelievewhatthepaleofolkssayandyoueatlikeaveganyou'regonnadie.Ifyoubelievewhattheveganfolkssay,ifyoueatitlikeapaleopersonyou'regonnadie,sotheycan'tbothberight.Katie:Yeah,exactly.SoI'mcuriouslikeifyoucouldwaveamagicwandandhaveeverybodyeatingamuchmorehealthydiet,whatwouldthatlooklikepracticallyspeakinglikehowwouldpeoplebeeatingthen?Dr.Hyman:Well.youknow,followsomebasicsimpleprinciples,youknow,thewayItalkabouteatingisakindofacouplethings.Oneofthemandbiggercontextislikethefood,right?WhatshouldIeat?Butandthenthere'showisaffectseverything,right?SoIthinkIjustwannasharealittlebitaboutthatbecauseit'ssomethingthatnobody'sgonnadisagreewith.Imeanthethingsthatwhetheryou'repaleoorvegan,these


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principlesIthinkeverybody'sonboardwiththem.Letmekindofsharewithyousomeofitbecauseit'sreallynotthathard.Thefirstfewthingsishowdoyoueatatahighleveltoaffecttheenvironmentaroundyou?Becausewhatyouarebasicallyeatingaffectsnotonlyyoubutaffectstheenvironment,affectsclimate,affectstheeconomyeffectsprettymucheverything.Sofirstis,youknow,avoidprocessedfoods,avoidjunkfoodobviously,refinedsugars,carbohydrates,andrefinedoils.Avoidfactoryfarmedanimals,avoidfoodsthatcontributetoclimatechangeandenvironmentaldegradation,minimizestheuseoffossilfuels,avoidfoodsthataffectsthekid'sabilitytolearnorthreatstonationalsecuritybecausekidsaretoofattofightorleadstoviolentbehaviorandpoverty.Nobody'sgonnaarguewithanyoftheseprincipals.Avoidadditives,artificialingredients,hormones,pesticides,antibiotics,GMOs.Nobodyisgoingtosay,"Oh,weshouldbeeatingmoreadditivesandchemicals.Weshouldbeeatingmorefactoryfarmanimals,weshouldbeeatingmoreprocessedfood."Nobodyisgonnasaythat,right?Soeverybodybelievesintheseprinciples.Andthesecondis,youknow,moreonwhatweshouldeat.Weshouldbeeatingwholefoods,mostlyplants,alowglycemicdiet.Nobodyagreesthatweshouldbeeatingahigh-carblow-fatdietanymore.Imean,thereareafewholdoutsandafewdinosaursouttherewhoarestillbelievingthisandpromotingthisbutitisjustoverwhelmingevidencetotheopposite.Healthyfats,alotofgoodfats,avocados,virginoliveoil,nuts,seeds,omega-3fats,somesaturatedfat.Ifyou'regonnaeatanimalfoodstheyshouldbesustainablyhumanelyraisedandharvested.Weshouldsupportregenerateagriculture,soilhealth,waterresourcesandfarmworkers'rights.Nobody'sgonnasay,"Oh,weshouldweshouldbeeatingfoodfromplaceswheretheyabusethefarmworkers,"likethesearejustbasicprinciplesthatnooneisgonnadisagreewiththis.AndthenIgointo,youknow,theprinciplesofwhatIcallthePegandietwhichagainwaskindofajokebutessentially,it'sprettysimple,nooneisreallygonnadisagreewiththis.One,verylowglycemiclowdiet,veryhighinnon-starchyrainbow-coloredvegetables.Ifyou'reeatingfruit,lowerglycemicfruit.Ifyou'reeatingfatsImean,eatgoodqualityfats,omega-3fats,oliveoil,nutsandseeds,avocados,thosekindsofthings.Lowandrefinedvegetableoilsthatarepotentiallyharmful,avoidorlimitdairyandstickwithgrass-fedgoatorsheep.Eatorganicwhenpossible,whole,fresh,evenlocalandpossible.Ifyou'regonnaeatanimalfoodsmakesurethey'resustainableandhumanelyraisedandtheysupportregenerativeculture.Fish,eatlow-mercuryfishfromsustainablefisheriesandfarmfishthataresustainableandnon-toxic.Avoidglutengrainsforthemostpart,moderateamountsofnoneglutengrains.Beans,okay,butasasidedishnotsixcupsofbeansaday.Andeatsmallerlowerglycemicbeansandavoidallthejunk,nopesticides,herbicides,antibiotics,hormones,chemicals,additives,preservatives,GMOfoods.ThesearejustsimpleprinciplesthatIdon'tthinkanybodycandisagreewith.Katie:Yeah,supercommonsenseandIdefinitelywouldencourageeveryonetograbyourbooktogetmoreinformation.AndIwanttowrapupwithareallypracticalquestionthatIgetalotandI'mguessingyoumighthavesomegreatinsightwhichishowcanparentshelpgetkidsonboardwiththiswayofeating?BecauseI'mguessingyouhavepeoplecomeintotheClevelandClinic,whothechildhasahealthproblemandneedstoeatthiswayandthere'sprobablysomeresistancethere.Soanytipsforparentstogetkidsonboard?Dr.Hyman:Ithink,youknow,itstartsyoung,right?Itstartsyoung.So,youknow,IsawthisgreatYouTubevideoonceofthiskidwhothefirsttimeislikehadsugaritwaslikehejusthadcrackorheroin.AndIthinkthemorewecandemonstrateinourhomeshowtoeatandcooksthat'srealfoodwilldobetter.Mymomalways


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cookedfreshfood.Wehadavegetablegardenontheback.Iusedtogointhebackandeatfromthegarden.Thosekindsofthingsmakeadifferenceforkids.Ihadthatwithmykidsanditwasreally,reallygreatandIthinkit'sreallyimportantforustoactuallylookathowdowechangethisinawaythatmakesourhealthbetter,thatmakestheplanetbetterandthatisn'tfeedingourkidsfoodsthat'sgonnakillthem.Idon'tthinkweshouldbehavingkids'menus,Idon'tthinkweshouldhavethingsinthehomethataren'tsafe.Kidswillgetintoitandthere'speerpressurebut,youknow,weneedtostartthinkingabouthowdowechangethosepoliciesthatmakethisintoaproblem?Katie:Exactly,andIthinkifparentsstartfromthegroundupandjustdon'thavethatstuffinthehousethekidscan'teatitatleastathomewhichwillminimizealotofthedamage.AndIthinkthere'salotofmomsthataremovinginthatdirectionthankstopeoplelikeyouwhoareonthefrontlinestalkingaboutthat.AndIwannarespectyourtime,Iknowyou'rebusypracticingdoctorbutthankyouso,somuchforbeinghere.Thisissuchafuninterview.Andagain,pleaseeverybodycheckouthisbook.It'slike,I'msurelikeallyourotherbookswillbeamazing.Sothankyou,Dr.Hyman,foryourtime.Dr.Hyman:Ofcourse,thankyousomuch.Katie:Andthanks,toallofyouforlisteningandIhopetoseeyouagainonthe"HealthyMoms"podcast.

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

160- What the Heck Should I Actually Eat with Dr. Mark Hyman · today with someone who I have been...

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Transcript of 160- What the Heck Should I Actually Eat with Dr. Mark Hyman · today with someone who I have been...