1.06.2014 Court Conference

8/13/2019 1.06.2014 Court Conference

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1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

2 ------------------------------x

2

3 UNITED STATES,

3

4 Petitioner,

4

5 v. 90 CV 5722 (RMB)

5

6 DISTRICT COUNCIL, ET AL.,

6

7 Defendants.

7

8 ------------------------------x

8 New York, N.Y.

9 January 6, 2014

9 9:40 a.m.

1010 Before:

11

11 HON. RICHARD M. BERMAN

12

12 District Judge

13

13 APPEARANCES

14

14 PREET BHARARA

15 United States Attorney for the

15 Southern District of New York

16 TARA LaMORTE

16 Assistant United States Attorney

17

17 DENNIS WALSH

18 Review Officer

18

19 SPIVAK LIPTON LLP

19 Attorney for District Council

20 BY: ADRIAN HEALY

20

21 HOLLAND AND KNIGHT LLP

21 Attorney for Intervenor Building Contractors Association

22 BY: FREDERICK D. BRAID

22

23

2425

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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1 (In open court)

2 THE COURT: So on my agenda I have a couple of

3 election-related issues that people wanted to be heard on,

4 Mr. Tagliaferro, Mr. Nee, Mr. Kelty, and then of course I would

5 hear from the review officer and also from the government on

6 these issues.

7 Is counsel from the district council here as well?

8 MR. HEALY: Yes, I am. Adrian Healy. I'm from --

9 THE COURT: From what?

10 MR. HEALY: Pardon me?

11 THE COURT: I can't hear you.

12 MR. HEALY: Adrian Healy of the Spivak Lipton law

13 firm.

14 I plan to remain seated in the gallery unless your

15 Honor has something you'd like to hear from district council

16 on.

17 THE COURT: I would want to hear your opinion as well.

18 So why don't we start with Mr. Tagliaferro.

19 Podium, if you'd like.20 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: Good morning, your Honor. Thank you

21 for letting me be heard.

22 THE COURT: You bet.

23 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: I have something that I've been

24 writing for the last couple of weeks, I would like to submit to

25 the Court, and I have a copy for Mr. Walsh also.


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1 THE COURT: Okay.

2 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: Your Honor, please forgive me. I'm

3 a carpenter. I'm not an attorney.

4 THE COURT: I get it. Some of our -- nevermind. Go

5 ahead.

6 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: I write to you as a member of the

7 carpenters union and I respectfully request for your permission

8 to let me run for the EST for the New York City district

9 council.

10 On December 11 Mr. Dennis Walsh, the review officer,

11 decided I wasn't qualified for this position. In my humble

12 opinion, he is wrong. Mr. Walsh has not revealed any written

13 rules or standings to determine who is qualified to run for

14 EST. He makes them up as he goes along and then says whatever

15 he decides cannot be reviewed by the Court of law. It is my

16 opinion that this is unconstitutional and his procedures

17 circumvent due process.

18 THE COURT: What did he tell you was the reason why he

19 was rejecting your candidacy?20 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: About 21 years ago I committed a

21 crime of -- I was convicted of possession of stolen property.

22 THE COURT: I see.

23 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: It's my opinion under 29 U.S.C. that

24 if that applied, I would have been barred for 13 years. But

25 that's not one of the crimes even listed on 29 U.S.C.


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1 Therefore, I don't understand why I would be barred because my

2 conviction was 17 years ago for a crime that happened 21 years

3 ago. So he just like made up a different rule. And that's

4 rather troublesome. I don't understand. If he would have told

5 me that in advance, he knew -- he knew even --

6 THE COURT: If he told you what in advance?

7 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: That I wouldn't be qualified because

8 I was arrested twenty -- almost 20 years ago.

9 THE COURT: He didn't say arrested. I think it was

10 convicted.

11 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: Convicted.

12 THE COURT: Right.

13 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: He said I was convicted over 20

14 years ago, that that's the bar.

15 THE COURT: When did he tell you that?

16 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: The day of nominations.

17 THE COURT: Which was?

18 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: December 11. He told us that

19 December 11.20 Your Honor, I've been a president of my local for

21 three years. When I took over my local we had about $358,000.

22 We now have just shy of a million dollars. My local is the

23 only local in the State of New York or New Jersey who gives

24 their members, at no additional cost to them, dental and vision

25 coverage. My local is run one hundred percent squeaky clean.


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1 And I've gotten compliments from Mr. Walsh's office on how good

2 of a job I've done there. I believe I'm the only candidate in

3 this race that has a proven track record. And he says in his

4 refusal or refusal to approve me that I made a bad judgment. I

5 believe every person that's walking this earth has made bad

6 judgments. And to hold something that I did 20 years ago

7 against me, I think that's a bad judgment on Mr. Walsh's part.

8 THE COURT: I got it.

9 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: About two years ago we had the last

10 election here for district council. Mr. Walsh approved

11 president -- then president Bill Lebo and EST Mike Bilello.

12 Within nine months, he sent down a letter of possible action

13 which led to Mr. Lebo resigning after nine months. This year,

14 or 2013 he removed Mr. Bilello within 14 months. Again, that's

15 an example of a bad judgment. I mean we've all made bad

16 judgments.

17 THE COURT: We're talking about your case. We're not

18 talking about those cases.

19 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: Directly in related because20 Mr. Walsh is saying I made a bad judgment, as he made bad

21 judgments.

22 THE COURT: He's not running for office. So we've got

23 to focus on your situation.

24 So he said because you were convicted, bad judgment I

25 guess is what he's saying, you know. And then the question is


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1 whether his decision is reviewable legally.

2 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: In the stipulation and order it says

3 that the review officer must establish threshold qualifications

4 beforehand. That is not written anywhere. None of his rules

5 are ever written anywhere. He just simply makes them up as he

6 goes along. He approves some people. He disapproves some

7 people. That's why I believe this election should not take

8 place. In the stipulation and order --

9 THE COURT: Now you're all over the lot. We have the

10 election. It is scheduled. The question is whether you can

11 run for that office. That's the issue as far as I can see. So

12 these more global issues have been resolved. We're having the

13 election. That's been determined already.

14 So the real question is whether such an old conviction

15 which is 21 years old should bar you from being a candidate for

16 EST. Isn't that the story?

17 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: That's part of question. The other

18 part of the question is how come the rules and the

19 qualifications weren't established beforehand.20 THE COURT: Fair enough.

21 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: How does the Court determine if he's

22 just being undue -- biased. I mean in my opinion, he picks and

23 chooses who he likes. I don't believe this Court runs that way

24 and I don't believe the laws of the land state that Mr. Walsh

25 can run that way.


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1 THE COURT: Okay. Fair enough. I got it. I will

2 look at your submission.

3 Mr. Nee is next.

4 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: Thank you, your Honor.

5 THE COURT: You bet.

6 MR. NEE: Good morning, your Honor. I would also like

7 to bring up an additional issue but I don't know if this is the

8 appropriate way to do it.

9 THE COURT: We're talking about -- I don't know what

10 issue you want to speak to.

11 MR. NEE: Bill Walsh who has also appeared today.

12 Basically I want to go to the EST election that's

13 going on right now, which actually has no rules. If you go to

14 the stipulation and order, there are no election rules. There

15 are no election rules because the stipulation and order has

16 specific procedures which must be followed in order to create

17 rules. The first step of which is to take the rules and you

18 submit -- you give them to the membership. And then you have

19 to ask the members to respond, to make comments on these rules.20 Then the review officer, under the stipulation and order, is

21 required to look at these things, consider them, before

22 promulgating the final rules and then submitting them to the

23 Court.

24 What the review officer has done is he's cut the

25 membership out of their own election. He does not have the


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1 authority to make the rules on his own. He has done so, and he

2 never had the right to do so. In a democracy the members get

3 to decide to --

4 THE COURT: Is there a provision of the stipulation

5 and order specifically you're referring to?

6 MR. NEE: I think it's 5KI2, I think.

7 It is 5KII.

8 THE COURT: 5AII.

9 MR. NEE: K, Kevin. But it says F on it. But it is

10 K, 5KII.

11 The review officer must propose rules and procedures

12 for the conduct of elections no later than 120 days before the

13 first election during his tenure is to occur. The rules must

14 set out procedures for the nomination of candidates,

15 dissemination of information about nominated candidates to the

16 membership at union expense, and the conduct of the final

17 secret ballot election. The rules must seek to ensure that

18 those eligible members who reside outside of the New York

19 metropolitan area are able to vote. Draft rules will be20 disseminated to the membership by means deemed appropriate by

21 the review officer for comment. The review officer must

22 consider any such comments, then promulgate the final rules for

23 the election by submitting an application to this Court. When

24 approved by the Court, the final rules will be incorporated

25 into and made a part of the bylaws of the district council.


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1 What he's done is he's cut out the entire part which

2 involves the membership. And under the stipulation and order

3 he's not allowed to do that. The members are -- have a right

4 under the stipulation and order to weigh in on their own

5 election and what the rules should be, including Mr. Kelty who

6 has complained that there is no mailer. The stipulation and

7 order actually requires there to be some form of a -- the

8 members getting notified on the candidate's issues and the

9 council to pick up the expense. The stipulation requires it.

10 One other brief thing. Mr. Walsh, in his response to

11 me, said that he's authorized to conduct elections. But if you

12 look at 5KI, the review officer is empowered to supervise all

13 phases of any union election conducted by the district council.

14 He is conducting the election. If you go and you look at his

15 rules, he conducts everything. He does the questions. He

16 decides what questions. Everything to do with the election is

17 his agenda. The membership aren't involved in this. They come

18 in second place. If this is a democracy, then the members have

19 to be involved in deciding how their democracy is run. And20 when the right is given to them in the stipulation and order

21 and he specifically has gone outside of that. In the latest

22 election, he does not even have court approval. The only one

23 who has approved his election rules is himself. He has gone

24 completely in excess of any authority he has on the stipulation

25 and order. The election isn't valid because there are no valid


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1 election rules. And anybody who knows anything to do with an

2 election, an election -- a union election is like an on-and-off

3 switch. It's either valid or it's not. And if you don't

4 follow the rules, if you don't send out notification prior --

5 enough days prior to the nominations, that's it; it doesn't

6 count.

7 THE COURT: So which are the rules that are not being

8 followed?

9 MR. NEE: The number one rule is just creating the

10 rules, so there are no rules.

11 THE COURT: There are no rules.

12 MR. NEE: There are no rules because he didn't follow

13 the procedure to create the rules. It's very specific, the

14 stipulation and order. I have a copy here. You can read it

15 yourself. The stipulation and order is very specific on this.

16 There's not ifs, ands, or buts.


18 MR. NEE: I would just like briefly.

19 THE COURT: Yeah.20 MR. NEE: What I'm seeking is an injunction, believe

21 it or not.

22 THE COURT: Well, you don't walk in and say I get an

23 injunction today.

24 MR. NEE: I know. I'm very sorry. What I'd like to

25 do is give you a brief overview.


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1 THE COURT: I don't need an overview because that's

2 not the way we run the ship here. Someone just doesn't walk in

3 and say I want an injunction.

4 MR. NEE: What I'd like to do, it's in connection with

5 Mr. Walsh's case, in which Mr. McCarron has deemed him

6 ineligible to hold office. And I have documents here.

7 THE COURT: Well, you've got to look at the court

8 procedures and if you want to seek an application for some sort

9 of an injunction --

10 MR. NEE: I'm sorry I just thought -- not to interrupt

11 you. I thought you had to do a conference before you could do

12 a motion.

13 THE COURT: Well, here we have it. Okay. This is a

14 conference. I don't know if you have standing to seek an

15 injunction in his case but that's a whole other --

16 MR. NEE: No. I have a case here. I have basically

17 an outline in my case here, if I could just give you this. It

18 has a brief description of what I am holding, and it also has a

19 case that I'm relying on, which is -- I don't know if I can20 pronounce this correctly -- it's Kupau v. Yamamoto. It's the

21 Ninth Circuit. It's 1980 Hawaii. Basically in this case the

22 union changed the election rules after the fact. There was

23 rules in place, and the election chose to change them.

24 Mr. Walsh has been declared ineligible to run because he's --

25 actually I don't know why. There's nothing in the constitution


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1 that I could find that would bar Mr. Walsh. Collecting a union

2 pension or collecting a tools pension has absolutely no bearing

3 on this issue. I have letters here from --

4 THE COURT: Just let me understand. You're seeking an

5 injunction to do what?

6 MR. NEE: Injunction to have Mr. Walsh remain in

7 office until the end of his term because what the UBC has

8 attempted to do is illegal.

9 THE COURT: You're not talking about the election for

10 EST now?

11 MR. NEE: No. This is for --

12 THE COURT: This is totally different?

13 MR. NEE: Mr. McCarron is attempting to remove all 48

14 delegates.

15 THE COURT: That wasn't really on my agenda today.

16 MR. NEE: That's why Mr. Walsh is here.

17 THE COURT: I understand.

18 MR. NEE: So I'll submit this.

19 THE COURT: You're welcome to submit it, but you have20 to follow the rules.

21 MR. NEE: I'll find out what the rules are.

22 THE COURT: If you're making an application for an

23 injunction you have to do with that with a memorandum of law,

24 etc., and you have to determine that you have standing to make

25 such an application.


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1 MR. NEE: Oh, yes, sorry, now that you bring that up.

2 Mr. Walsh was questioning my standing to actually question the

3 election.

4 THE COURT: No.

5 MR. NEE: I have here --

6 THE COURT: What I'm saying is I'm not taking that

7 right now. We're talking about the EST election.

8 MR. NEE: I'm going back to the EST. He questioned my

9 standing to question -- the litigate this issue.

10 THE COURT: I don't know -- what are you litigating in

11 connection with the election?

12 MR. NEE: Mr. Walsh's acting in excess of his

13 authority and that the election has to be canceled.

14 THE COURT: Okay. I got it.

15 MR. NEE: No. But I do actually -- it's under the

16 United Brotherhood of Teamsters. They found that if a nonparty

17 can show that he's affected by a decision of the Court, they

18 have standing to appeal that decision. I have it written down

19 here. And it also has another citation from the -- from the20 Teamsters, which if I may just read this one out briefly.

21 Rules that are necessary to enable the IRB to fulfill

22 the specific duties and functions given to it by the consent

23 decree must not be confused with rules that merely seem

24 desirable to the Court, or which may be a better way for the

25 IRB to fulfill its purpose than the ways set forth in the


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1 consent decree. A court may not replace the terms of the

2 consent decree with its own no matter how much of an

3 improvement it would make in effectuating the decree's goals.

4 THE COURT: I got the point. If you want to make a

5 written submission with respect to that situation --

6 MR. NEE: No. This is EST.

7 THE COURT: Okay.

8 MR. NEE: This is Mr. Walsh has changed the rules and

9 the Second Circuit has ruled --

10 THE COURT: I'm not understanding you. First you said

11 there were no rules. Now you say he's changed the rules.

12 MR. NEE: No. There were election rules. You made

13 election rules. This went back, Mr. Bilello got elected. He's

14 changed those rules.

15 THE COURT: Before you said there were no rules.

16 MR. NEE: There are no rules for these elections

17 because they've never been approved, because they never

18 followed the process in order to change the rules. If you have

19 set election rules and if you want to change them, you have to20 follow the same process you made to create the original rules.

21 So if you're bringing in rules and you're setting schedules

22 which are not -- have nothing to do with the original rules,

23 then you have to follow the same procedure. You can't suddenly

24 invent a new procedure and give yourself the power to change

25 the rules otherwise the original rules meant nothing.


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2 MR. NEE: No. Because of the standing issue -- I just

3 had an interview. I'll read it. This just establishes -- the

4 Teamsters say that if I'm affected by it, which I am. I was a

5 candidate in this. I'm a voter in this. I'm a member of this

6 union. This election affects me. And a person in such --

7 okay. Although the general rule is that a party of record may

8 appeal a judgment, a nonparty may appeal when the nonparty has

9 an interest that is affected by the trial court's judgment.

10 And they ruled that the affiliates, who were

11 nonparties in the consent decree, had standing to litigate the

12 issue. And I have the same standing. This affects my rights.


14 MR. NEE: Very good. Can I give you this, or no?

15 THE COURT: Yes. You can hand it in, if you want.

16 I want to hear from Mr. Kelty next. Do you have

17 copies for Mr. Walsh?

18 MR. NEE: Yes. Copies for anybody who would like one.

19 THE COURT: So we'll take that.20 MR. NEE: How many copies do you like?

21 THE COURT: I just need one copy for the record.

22 MR. NEE: Thank you, your Honor.

23 MR. KELTY: Thank you, your Honor. I appreciate you

24 giving us this opportunity.

25 THE COURT: So Mr. Kelty, you are running for EST,


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1 right?

2 MR. KELTY: That's correct. I'm a candidate for the

3 EST position.

4 THE COURT: You're one of two candidates?

5 MR. KELTY: That's right.

6 I come here as a concerned member and a candidate.

7 I'm not a lawyer. I don't pretend to be a lawyer. Yet, I find

8 the RO treats our members that have interest in seeing over,

9 our organization properly run as pseudo attorneys, expect us to

10 look at everything he does as an attorney; only we're really

11 carpenters. I can only look at these issues with a common

12 sense approach.

13 I have several things I'd like to submit to you, two

14 of them which are the Carpenter magazine. According to the

15 original election rules that Mr. Walsh wrote up, there was

16 supposed to be a special edition of the Carpenter where the

17 candidates could submit their information and it would be

18 disseminated to the membership.

19 THE COURT: About their background?20 MR. KELTY: Right.

21 Now, in Mr. Walsh's special election rules, which his

22 reasoning was cost and time restraints, they couldn't do this.

23 Well my argument -- that doesn't hold water because this has

24 been going on since August. So there's been more than enough

25 time to arrange this. And as he said in the last court


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1 hearing, we have $25 million sitting idly in a bank account

2 which should be used for the members. What better way to

3 inform the members than to let them know what's going on with

4 this election.

5 THE COURT: How have you informed the members of your

6 candidacy?

7 MR. KELTY: I've been handing out fliers to the shop

8 stewards when they come in, handing out posters to the guys

9 that get out on the jobs. And I found --

10 THE COURT: Are you on the website?

11 MR. KELTY: I've been on the 157 blog spot because --

12 I sent you the copy of the homepage on our website. And it's

13 absolutely absurd to pretend that that's really informing the

14 members of what's going on here.

15 THE COURT: Why is that?

16 MR. KELTY: Because for one thing if you see the

17 website, it gives absolutely -- here's the website. Really

18 nothing stands out on there that we're having one of the most

19 important EST elections coming up. That's the top spot at the20 castle. Yet it's blended right in here with everything else.

21 You would think it would come out here.

22 THE COURT: What does it say?

23 MR. KELTY: Come to the EST election.

24 THE COURT: What does it say about you?

25 MR. KELTY: What does it say about me?


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1 THE COURT: Yeah.

2 MR. KELTY: It only has the information --

3 THE COURT: No. What does it say?

4 MR. KELTY: What it says here is: EST special

5 election headquarters. View the latest candidates. Election Q

6 and A plus -- from the RO plus campaign literature. Read more.

7 That's what we get.

8 Now I would also like to point out. We just received,

9 maybe two weeks ago, the winter issue of the Carpenter

10 magazine. Now, there's fully a page in here from the RO, a

11 page from the president, a page from -- and EST, a page from

12 the vice-president. Yet there's absolutely no mention -- this

13 just came out about a couple weeks ago, we received it -- no

14 mention whatsoever of the upcoming EST election. There was

15 more than enough time to have that information in here.

16 This is last year's, which we had an election for the

17 president. Now, the president is not a paid position, doesn't

18 hold a full-time position at the council. Yet, last year's

19 edition has at least this much saying that there's a20 presidential election coming on December 20. But we got

21 nothing in the other one.

22 I have here -- I'd just like to -- I have here a

23 response, my e-mail response to Mr. Walsh, if you would like,

24 when he sent me the letter saying that, pretty much that the

25 election rules are modified because of the timing and financial


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1 restraints.

2 THE COURT: If you want to submit that, you can.

3 MR. KELTY: Yes, I would.

4 Anyway, I'd just like to make a statement here to the

5 Court, which I've typed up. Like I told you before, I'm not an

6 attorney. I'm not big on public speaking, but here it goes.

7 THE COURT: Well you're going to need to be a public

8 speaker if you're going to be the EST, right?

9 MR. KELTY: That's correct. I'm getting a lot of

10 practice.

11 How does modifying the election rules help meet these

12 goals?

13 Well, first of all, I said: Goals of the consent

14 decree are to eliminate corruption and promote union democracy.

15 How does modifying the election rules help to meet these goals?

16 The answer is it doesn't. We have a set of election rules that

17 were put in place to help accomplish the goals of the consent

18 decree, and informing the membership of their choices is a step

19 in the right direction. Many members who don't attend20 membership meetings and are not actively involved in our union

21 have no idea we are having an election. The website is an

22 absolute failure for notifying our members on anything.

23 Neither the RO nor the council has produced any evidence that

24 the website is an effective tool for notifying and informing

25 our membership. To make these assumptions without any


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1 empirical evidence is negligent at best.

2 The debate. The last debate was an embarrassment to

3 say the least. The RO rented a large room in the Javits Center

4 at a cost never divulged to the members.

5 THE COURT: When was that?

6 MR. KELTY: That was at the last EST election.

7 There were barely 125 people in attendance, of which

8 half were council employees. That debate was also videotaped

9 at an enormous expense to our members and very few members

10 actually bothered to watch it.

11 THE COURT: That's an election that already took

12 place?

13 MR. KELTY: Right.

14 THE COURT: So let's talk about this election.

15 MR. KELTY: I am. The mailing is the most effective

16 way to ensure the members have an opportunity to inform

17 themselves. Surely about one dollar per member isn't too much

18 to ask this Court to inform our members of the choices for

19 their leadership positions. We recently received the winter20 issue of the Carpenter. There were two pages dedicated to the

21 IG watchdog program, congratulations to the newly elected city

22 council members and the mayor. There was a full page dedicated

23 to the president and pro-tem EST Steve McInnis and VP Mike

24 Cavanaugh, which neither mentioned the upcoming election. Even

25 the review officer failed to mention the election in his


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1 message to the members. There was not one mention of the

2 upcoming EST election in the entire issue. There was ample

3 time to inform our members of the upcoming election and a

4 two-week delay in distribution would have enabled the

5 candidates to submit their single double-sided page of election

6 material, eliminating the need for a special edition. Yet,

7 this didn't happen.

8 Cost and time restrictions. It has been brought to my

9 attention there's a $50 million surplus at the district

10 council. As I said, the RO just stated last month there was

11 $25 million sitting idly in the bank working for members. What

12 better than to put the money to work by informing our members

13 of their choices in the election for our highest office? The

14 RO started this process in August and here it is now January.

15 How could time possibly be a restriction? There has been

16 plenty of time for appeals and court conferences yet no time to

17 inform our members. The modified election rules, intentionally

18 or not, clearly stack the deck for the highly paid council

19 employee candidate. Your Honor, we need to move forward with20 election rules and procedures.

21 THE COURT: You're saying that there's one preferred

22 candidate?

23 MR. KELTY: Yeah, there's a council backing employee

24 candidate who makes over -- about $150,000 a year.

25 THE COURT: Who is that?


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1 MR. KELTY: Joe Geiger. He's my opponent.

2 I'm semiretired. I have a 38,000-dollar a year

3 pension and I try to work a week a month. Anyway --

4 THE COURT: Have you had any kind of forum or debate

5 with him?

6 MR. KELTY: Not yet. That's supposed to happen

7 Wednesday.

8 THE COURT: Okay. This Wednesday?

9 MR. KELTY: Right.

10 THE COURT: Where is that going to be?

11 MR. KELTY: That's going to be at the district council

12 in a room that holds about 150 people. It's supposed to be on

13 the 10th floor, I'm pretty sure. But we'll be lucky if we

14 get 150 people show up out of 20,000.

15 What happens today -- we need to move forward with

16 election rules and procedures set in stone, not rules that

17 arbitrarily change with the wind. What happens today will

18 determine what happens in the future. If the RO changes the

19 rules for this election, then what will happen in the next year20 or five years from now?

21 One of the determining factors for me to run for this

22 office was based on knowing I'd be able to inform all our

23 voting members of my candidacy and the issues we face because

24 of the election rules that were established. I would not even

25 have considered taking this challenge because of the expense I


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1 would have to bear to inform our members. If the RO felt that

2 this election was not worth the expense for the mailing, why

3 even bother to have it?

4 THE COURT: All right. I got it. Thank you.

5 So where is the fellow from the district council, the

6 lawyer from the district council?

7 Are you from Mr. Murphy's firm?

8 MR. HEALY: Yes, your Honor.

9 Adrian Healy, law firm of Spivak Lipton for the

10 district council.

11 I just would add very briefly two points in response

12 to some of the comments that you have received. One is that in

13 our view the stipulation and order quite thoroughly vests

14 Mr. Walsh with the authority to set the rules for this

15 election, and he has done so; and secondly, that your Honor has

16 already, I believe, ruled at least once that Mr. Walsh's

17 determination on candidate eligibility is nonreviewble.

18 THE COURT: Is nonreviewble?

19 MR. HEALY: Correct. I believe that's the words that20 the stipulation uses.

21 THE COURT: So you, as counsel for the district

22 council, are in agreement or approve the process that is going

23 forward currently for this new election?

24 MR. HEALY: Well I would say, your Honor, that the

25 district council agreed to this process when it endorsed the


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1 stipulation and order in 2010. And, of course, the district

2 council would be more than happy to discuss any of these issues

3 with the review officer. I don't have any doubt that he'd be

4 willing to do so in the future.

5 THE COURT: Well what, for example, is your view as to

6 Mr. Tagliaferro's complaint?

7 MR. HEALY: I would say once again, your Honor, that

8 given the Court's ruling and Mr. Walsh's nonreviewable

9 determination, that it must stand, just given the precedent and

10 the expressed terms of the stipulation and order. Again, I

11 should add that that should not be construed as a commentary

12 upon the merits of his complaint, but simply that those are the

13 terms that have been imposed.

14 THE COURT: And what about Mr. Nee's?

15 MR. HEALY: I'm not a hundred percent certain about

16 Mr. Nee's position. Of course, if Mr. Nee intervenes and seeks

17 to enjoin the election or positions himself as a proposed

18 intervenor, perhaps we can respond to it more completely at

19 that time.20 THE COURT: And finally Mr. Kelty?

21 MR. HEALY: Once again, I would just rest on my

22 initial comments, which were --

23 THE COURT: His central complaint seems to be that the

24 union is not paying for distribution of materials describing

25 his candidacy.


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1 MR. HEALY: Right. When Mr. Walsh submitted the

2 proposed election rules to your Honor back in August, I believe

3 that his application made it clear that there would be other

4 reasonable means of distributing information about candidates.

5 THE COURT: Do you think there have been?

6 MR. HEALY: I believe so, yes. I believe that that

7 district council website has included all that information.

8 THE COURT: Thanks.

9 Before we hear from Mr. Walsh, what is the

10 government's view about all of these issues?

11 MS. LaMORTE: Sure, your Honor.

12 As to the first issue of the candidate that was not

13 approved. As Mr. Healy said, your Court already has a ruling.

14 And the stipulation is very clear that that's nonreviewble.

15 But even beyond that, I think, if I recall correctly, even

16 assuming that it was reviewable, Mr. Walsh's determination is

17 accorded great discretion here.

18 THE COURT: It does seem a little bit harsh, right,

19 that somebody who was arrested 21 years ago and then convicted20 I guess 21 minus three or four years ago has paid his debt to

21 society, so to speak. Do you think that?

22 MS. LaMORTE: Your Honor, you know, each situation has

23 to be analyzed individually and I understand that this crime

24 occurred --

25 THE COURT: Well that's the situation we're analyzing.


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1 MS. LaMORTE: And this crime did occur some time ago.

2 I understand that. But I think when Mr. Walsh is making this

3 decision -- obviously he can speak more to it -- his decision

4 is supposed to be based on the terms and objectives of the

5 consent decree, and that's what's in this stipulation and

6 order. And we're dealing -- and also, you have to consider the

7 historical context. We're dealing with a union who was corrupt

8 from the top. And we in 2009 indicted the whole top membership

9 of the union. So, drastic measures -- when we were in front of

10 Judge Haight and we were having the stipulation and order

11 approved, Judge Haight agreed that drastic measures needed to

12 be taken to ensure that this doesn't happen again, to get the

13 union in a place where its procedures and policies were greater

14 than any individual person. So, you know, whereas in a vacuum

15 I could see that it would -- it's sort of difficult to say

16 someone who committed a crime such a long time ago is now

17 precluded to run. I think we're dealing with a very unique

18 circumstance here, in light of the history, and Mr. Walsh's

19 obligation to consider the consent decree in making his20 determinations.

21 As to Mr. Nee's complaint, I would just say that the

22 election rules that are in effect for this election have been

23 submitted to the Court and have been approved by the Court. So

24 this is not some ultra vires modification of any sort.

25 Finally, as to Mr. Kelty, I'm not so well versed in


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1 the particulars of dissemination but I will say it did sound

2 like the district council website does include all the campaign

3 literature. And, again, this modified distribution that we're

4 talking about has been approved by the Court. So I don't see

5 any issue there.

6 THE COURT: Okay. Finally, Mr. Walsh.

7 MR. D. WALSH: Thank you, your Honor. Dennis Walsh,

8 the review officer.

9 First of all, with respect to Mr. Tagliaferro, as

10 Ms. LaMorte has pointed out, my obligation under the

11 stipulation and order is to approve candidates. Taking into

12 consideration -- and this is the standard that everyone had

13 notice of back in June 2010 -- considering the terms and

14 objectives of the consent decree, I made the determination as

15 to whether a candidate is qualified to represent the members of

16 the union.

17 Now, this has been a union with a tortured past. It

18 has been plagued by racketeering conspiracies for many decades.

19 Mr. Tagliaferro participated in an illegal conspiracy that was20 of sufficient import that it was the subject of a federal

21 sting. He described in his interview, which I --

22 THE COURT: This is the matter for which he was

23 arrested?

24 MR. D. WALSH: Convicted, yes.

25 He described the people that he participated in this


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1 conspiracy with as bad people. He knowingly decided to enter

2 this conspiracy to drive a truck which he knew contained stolen

3 property at the behest of bad people. I think the expected

4 response of any normal citizen is to recoil in horror at the

5 prospect of being asked to participate in a conspiracy that

6 could, upon conviction, gain him serious time in federal

7 prison. Mr. Tagliaferro did go to federal prison. Federal

8 policy, as recognized by Congress --

9 THE COURT: What was his sentence?

10 MR. D. WALSH: Pardon me?

11 THE COURT: What was his sentence?

12 MR. D. WALSH: He was sentenced to six months followed

13 by supervised release of I believe two to three years. And he

14 was incarcerated in the Lewisburg facility.

15 Federal policy, longstanding federal policy recognizes

16 that for certain prescribed offenses there's an absolute bar

17 not only to serving as an officer but even menial employment in

18 a local union. That's not negotiable. This is a situation --

19 THE COURT: Is this one of those --20 MR. D. WALSH: It is not. But because of -- the

21 13-year bar is not expressly applicable because the time had

22 run. It was not by much, but it had run.

23 But the question here is given the responsibility that

24 I have to the court, to the union, and to the rank and file

25 members, is it reasonable and prudent to allow a person who


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1 made this decision to participate in this criminal conspiracy

2 to lead them as the principal fiduciary of the district council

3 and as a cochairman of benefit funds worth over $4 billion.

4 I don't know the people that he ran with back in the

5 1990s. I don't know if they are still interested in his

6 comings and goings. But I do not want to be the person

7 responsible for opening the door to communication from them

8 should they decide to reacquaint themselves with

9 Mr. Tagliaferro if he wins in this situation and make a further

10 proposal that he engage in illegal activity.

11 So, considering the terms and objectives of the

12 consent decree, I made a determination on the record -- which

13 was not in any way arbitrary or capricious -- not to approve

14 Mr. Tagliaferro. It's obviously a decision which he vehemently

15 disagrees with. It was a decision that I stand by as

16 reasonable and prudent and in the best interests of all

17 concerned.

18 Now, with respect to the election and the election

19 rules. As the Court knows, we went through a very detailed20 process of getting election rules approved back in 2011 which

21 are now part of the district council bylaws. There was a

22 comment period. The Court considered them. And the Court

23 issued an order adopting those election rules.

24 We have had more than one special election. It was at

25 least one election for a trustee of the district council, and


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1 an election for president of the district council, where the

2 Court endorsed my proposal to use the modified rules because

3 these were interim elections. They were not for the full blown

4 terms which the original election rules, which the standing

5 election rules contemplate.

6 As of now, there were two notices that were sent to

7 every rank and file member of the upcoming election for EST.

8 Those election notices contained much more information than the

9 average union election notice. And they actually contained

10 dates showing the schedule for various events to occur. Every

11 member of this union has had ample notice of the special

12 election for EST.

13 The election rules contemplated that this job be

14 filled quickly. When the winner is installed on February 12

15 there will be eleven months left in this term. We are -- I am

16 trying to meet the number one goal here, which is to have an

17 election, which is to give the members a choice about who they

18 would like to have fill the remainder of the term. If the

19 schedule is wiped away, one wonders what purpose is really20 served if we are going to add additional months to a process

21 that will leave so little time in the term of the person who is

22 elected as executive secretary/treasurer.

23 So there's been ample notice. Everybody knows what

24 the schedule is. The district council website does, in fact,

25 have every word of every document submitted by Mr. Kelty and


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1 Mr. Geiger, their campaign literature. If there are people who

2 believe that the expressed wording of the stipulation and order

3 requires more than that, I think ultimately that question of

4 interpretation will have to come down to the wisdom of the

5 Court.

6 I believe that that language is covered. The district

7 council website has that information on there. But, if the

8 Court --

9 THE COURT: You mean as to campaign literature?

10 MR. D. WALSH: As to campaign literature provided by

11 the candidates. And each candidate has the right to inspect

12 the membership list. Each candidate has the right to do a

13 mailing. The membership list is sent confidentially to a

14 mailing house. There can be a modified mailing for a targeted

15 group. These are all rights that candidates have under federal

16 law.

17 THE COURT: When is the election?

18 MR. D. WALSH: The ballots are being mailed today.

19 And they will be counted on January 24. They must be received,20 by the American Arbitration Association, on January 23 by

21 5:00 p.m. in order to be counted.

22 There is a debate this Wednesday which is going to be

23 held at the district council. It is going to be video

24 recorded. That video is going to be posted on the district

25 council website. My hope is that it gets up within 24 hours so


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1 that people will be able to actually see the candidates, see

2 their demeanor, see how fast they are on their feet and, most

3 importantly, gauge whether their politics is acceptable to

4 them, whether their policies are something that they'd like to

5 hear.

6 So, I believe that we have covered all the bases. The

7 district council obviously received notice of every proposed

8 modification of the election rules. We have never heard

9 anything from the district council in opposition to any of

10 those rules. The law of this case is that special election

11 rules are appropriate, as they have been approved and endorsed

12 by the court in the past.

13 THE COURT: Have there been mailings at union expense

14 in the past elections?

15 MR. D. WALSH: There was. In the 2011 election, which

16 is obviously for the full term, when the supervision of the UBC

17 was going to end. So that was, in fact, done.

18 THE COURT: And what about is there any precedent with

19 respect to special elections whether the union would pay the20 costs of the mailing?

21 MR. D. WALSH: We have not had any union-paid mailings

22 in any of the special elections that the district council has

23 run since 2011.

24 THE COURT: So I take it at the end of eleven months

25 there will be a regular election as it were?


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1 MR. D. WALSH: Yes.

2 THE COURT: At which time, just to stay with the issue

3 of mailings, it's likely that the union would pick up the cost?

4 MR. D. WALSH: It's mandatory at that point because

5 the full regular election rules, which are part of the district

6 council bylaws, will be in operation.

7 THE COURT: I got it. All right. Anybody -- anything

8 else?

9 MR. NEE: Can I rebut?

10 THE COURT: I don't really think we need rebuttal.

11 MR. NEE: I think he brought up --

12 THE COURT: So if anybody is going to go, I will give

13 a minute to each, starting with Mr. Tagliaferro.

14 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: Your Honor, thank you very much.

15 I forgot one of the most important things. In the

16 seventh interim report Mr. Walsh said that this union needs

17 somebody to put themselves at risk before -- risk their own

18 ruin for the betterment of the membership. There is nobody in

19 this union that has done more so in that than me.20 Also, when Mr. Walsh -- he talks about something that

21 I did 21 years ago. If I was going to remake that mistake

22 wouldn't I have done that? Your Honor, I have definitely

23 turned my life around. And Mr. Walsh knows that. And I find

24 it very offensive for him to assume -- insinuate anything other

25 than that.


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1 But the rules are clear in the stipulation and order

2 and the consent decree that his approving and disapproving has

3 to abide by the law. And that's not abiding by the law. As he

4 said, the 13 years is long overdue. And, again, if he wants

5 somebody who stands up for the membership, I do that. In my

6 brief that I gave you, I just named four of the examples of the

7 hundreds of times that I've done it on the job site. He is

8 definitely arbitrarily picking it out. Me being in this

9 courtroom right now is putting myself at risk of ruin because

10 Mr. Walsh is a vindictive person and she going to come after me

11 for that as he does everybody else that crosses him. Thank you

12 again, your Honor.

13 THE COURT: Would Mr. Tagliaferro be eligible for the

14 election eleven months from now?

15 MR. D. WALSH: Right now the election rules that are

16 part of the district council bylaws contemplate that the review

17 officer maintains the same authority.

18 THE COURT: No. No. I understand that.

19 But he could apply?20 MR. D. WALSH: He absolutely could apply.

21 THE COURT: Okay.

22 MR. TAGLIAFERRO: Thank you, your Honor.

23 THE COURT: Mr. Nee. One minute.

24 MR. NEE: First off, according --

25 THE COURT: I'm not hearing you.


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1 MR. NEE: I've been told --

2 THE COURT: Pull the microphone closer to you.

3 MR. NEE: Ms. LaMorte claims that we should be putting

4 the policies and procedures in place which will govern us after

5 the review officer leaves, except the president review officer

6 has said is that all the rules are changeable, you can adopt

7 the rules to whatever you suit, just go and interpret them,

8 that they mean nothing.

9 The review officer is telling us that there are rules

10 approved. I'd like to see where. I'd wan to see where in the

11 stipulation and order, when everybody is telling us that we

12 must abide by it, I would like him to please cite.

13 THE COURT: You follow the docket of this proceeding?

14 MR. NEE: I have followed the docket.

15 THE COURT: So if you look at the docket, I think you

16 will see that the rules were approved.

17 MR. NEE: The rules were approved according to the

18 stipulation and order?

19 THE COURT: If you look at the docket --20 MR. NEE: Yes.

21 THE COURT: See what the docket says.

22 MR. NEE: Does the docket -- is there --

23 THE COURT: Well, I'm not taking questions. If you've

24 got anything else that you want to add in the one minute time

25 for rebuttal, that's fine.


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1 MR. NEE: I don't see how we're implementing policies

2 and procedures to govern us in the future when everything

3 changes whenever he wants it to and he makes up the rules as he

4 goes along.

5 THE COURT: I appreciate that.

6 Yeah.

7 MR. KELTY: I'll be brief, your Honor.

8 THE COURT: Okay.

9 MR. KELTY: As the RO points out, the election rules

10 are in the bylaws. Now we need approval from the Eastern

11 District vice-president to change the bylaws. And the RO has

12 vetoed people for violating the bylaws.

13 I want to point out that the EST is the only full-time

14 position that has come up for the election. The other

15 positions are part-time. The president is only a three hundred

16 dollar a month stipend. And the trustees, they just get paid

17 to review the books monthly.

18 Mr. Walsh is also making the assumption that the

19 website is informing the members.20 THE COURT: Yeah, we've discussed this before. You

21 think it's not.

22 MR. KELTY: But a perfect example. About a

23 month-and-a-half ago they put on the website that the shop

24 stewards had to have all their certs updated by the end of

25 November; yet, nobody was getting their certs updated. It


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1 turned out they had to call all the shop stewards and inform

2 them of that because they don't use that website. Nobody goes

3 on that website unless they're looking for specific information

4 like how many hours I had, are my benefits up, or that. That's

5 it. And they have offered no evidence. And plenty of members

6 have asked them. How many hits are we getting on these

7 websites? And they have given us no information to the

8 contrary.

9 And I'm just not asking for a mailing for myself.

10 This is it. I'm asking for a mailing for my opponent too so we

11 both get the information out. Thank you.

12 THE COURT: Anybody else? Very quickly.

13 MR. McGONNIGLE: Thomas McGonnigle.

14 Once again, I'm not going to go into what my history

15 is, but I'm a 32-year member of the merger of 157/608.

16 I'm here to backup Greg Kelty's claim that the

17 website, and Mr. Walsh's philosophy behind being high tech in

18 this world, it is high tech, but the carpenters aren't. The

19 carpenters go to work. There's four or five members here today20 and there's almost 19,000 members in the local.

21 No one really knows what's going on. I came off a

22 job. I was there four months. In and out I might have saw 50

23 guys. Nobody knows anything about this election. People, like

24 Greg said, go on that website to see if their hours are up, or

25 where the pick of duty is going to be held.


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1 The bottomline is: Mailings, when a guy gets a

2 mailing for any reason from the district council, I hear about

3 it, from a shop steward's -- what's this about, Shoppy?

4 What's wrong with a mailing just saying there's an

5 election? I asked for that years ago when I was involved

6 running for politics in the local. Dennis Walsh, I'm sorry to

7 say, blew me off. Mailings are old school. We don't do it

8 like that anymore.

9 This is the way it's always been. This is the best

10 way to get out to the members what's going on. That's why I'm

11 here, because it's not fair to leave it on the website and on

12 your notebook and your iPhone. It doesn't work like that.

13 THE COURT: Are you going to the debate on Wednesday?

14 MR. McGONNIGLE: I will be there. I'm one of the few

15 people that know about what's going on. I do go on the

16 website. I go on the blog spot. The sad part is the biggest

17 information on the website on the internet is the 157 blog

18 spot. It has no connection. If anything, it's an adversarial

19 website to the district council because it points out the20 truth. You come in here and have the lawyer come in and tell

21 you that this has been going on, we're agreeing with Dennis

22 Walsh because the lawyers that are here today for the district

23 council were hired by the same people.


25 MR. McGONNIGLE: Thank you.


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1 THE COURT: Sure thing.

2 MR. W. WALSH: William Walsh. I just want to read a

3 brief statement.

4 THE COURT: You have a different issue, right?

5 MR. W. WALSH: It's about the election rules and my

6 situation.

7 THE COURT: Well, your situation is not really on the

8 agenda today because it's not part of the EST election.

9 MR. W. WALSH: It's not part of the EST election but

10 it certainly has to do with the way the election rules and --

11 THE COURT: This is a separate issue, which I'm not

12 really dealing with today. I have your submission. I'm going

13 to get a response to your submission. And then we'll take that

14 as a separate matter.

15 MR. W. WALSH: Can I just comment on this election?

16 THE COURT: Quickly.

17 MR. W. WALSH: I just want to talk about how the

18 election process that we have is a major component for the

19 consent decree and the stipulation and order. In order for our20 union to move forward, there needs to be a district council

21 election committee in place, the same as is currently enforced

22 in the local level. The bylaws and election rules are being

23 executed by the review officer instead of our own appointed

24 election committee. As stated in our bylaws in section 5B.9,

25 When the review officer has completed his mission, who will


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1 enforce and certify candidates for upcoming council elections.

2 You don't want me to get into my situation, but I

3 would hope that the Court would consider saving the members

4 tens of thousands of dollars and running our election only for

5 the delegate body, and that my -- I did prove through my

6 resources and all the different angles that I had as far as

7 showing that I depended on the trade. Mr. Walsh endorsed me on

8 it. He's written a letter to Mr. McCarron. And I was just

9 hoping that you can maybe oversee this and see that there is a

10 democracy, something fair is being done in our union, and that

11 Mr. McCarron doesn't have a stronghold and just being able to

12 put whatever he wants, whenever he wants. We are under the

13 stipulation and order of New York and I would hope that your

14 Honor would see that this would be fair and democratic. And

15 also put something in place, a criteria where members proven to

16 be depending on the trade, and also as a membership for a

17 livelihood. So these are my issues and I would hope you

18 consider them. Thank you, your Honor.

19 THE COURT: Last one.20 MR. QUINONES: Good morning, your Honor.

21 My name is Mike Quinones. As far as the district

22 council, as far as the local, our local 926, I feel that

23 Mr. Sal Tagliaferro has done a remarkable job for our local as

24 far as uplifting and bringing our members up to creed.

25 As far as the situation as far as the district council


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1 stating out -- sending out voting of issues, voting proxies, I

2 did not receive anything. I don't know anything about the

3 elections. So I feel that this election shouldn't even take

4 forward.

5 THE COURT: Are you going to the debate on Wednesday?

6 MR. QUINONES: That is correct.

7 THE COURT: So you'll find out then.

8 MR. QUINONES: I'll find out then. It shouldn't

9 have -- there should have been some advance notice through the

10 mails. Not too many people can afford computers or go on line.

11 I'm not saying anybody is dumb or stupid.

12 THE COURT: Nobody is dumb or stupid. I just want to

13 make sure everybody here knows of the debate on Wednesday and

14 that they're going.

15 MR. QUINONES: I just found out today about the

16 debate.

17 THE COURT: I take it you'll be going.

18 MR. QUINONES: Yes, sir.

19 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you very much.20 MR. QUINONES: Thank you, your Honor.

21 THE COURT: One more hand here.

22 MR. CORRIGAN: Your Honor, excuse my appearance. I

23 just came from a job site.

24 THE COURT: No problem.

25 MR. CORRIGAN: May name is Peter Corrigan.


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1 Your Honor, basically the EST going forward is going

2 to be negotiating major deals with developers, billions of

3 dollars at stake, thousands of families at stake. And in my

4 opinion spending a couple thousand dollars, when you're going

5 to be negotiating for billions of dollars, on a mailing is a

6 no-brainer. I mean you can't really put a price on democracy.

7 I think that we've all learned that. So to not have a mailing

8 and just hope that everybody goes on the district council

9 website -- I mean my father is a 32-year member of the

10 Carpenters Union, doesn't know how to turn a computer on. All

11 the retirees. How do you expect to educate them properly on

12 something that's going to affect their benefits, their going

13 forward. We're trying to get our benefits back. And all these

14 retirees are paying premiums they never had to pay before.

15 So I think we need to do a service to the retirees and

16 send the mailing out. These retirees are spending thousands of

17 dollars they never spent in their life. And the next leader of

18 this organization, they're going to have to pick who the next

19 leader of this organization is? Not really knowing what's20 going on? It's not fair to have a guy on the tools,

21 regardless -- or anybody go into their pocket for that type of

22 money when they just want to lead the organization in the right

23 direction. So I really hope that you consider letting the

24 council pay for a mailing. Thank you.

25 THE COURT: Did you want --


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1 MR. D. WALSH: Judge, I just want to make it very

2 clear that every member of this union got a notice that was

3 mailed on November 8 with details about the schedule. So for

4 people to say that they are in the dark about this simply does

5 not hold any weight.

6 THE COURT: What did the notice say?

7 MR. D. WALSH: The notice informed people that there

8 would be a special election for executive secretary/treasurer.

9 The reverse side of the notice contained a detailed description

10 of the obligations of the office, the role of the office, and

11 it set forth key dates, I believe, including the date of the

12 debate. And we are sticking to that schedule so that every

13 member of the union has received notice of the debate that's

14 happening on Wednesday night and other key aspects of this

15 campaign.

16 I also do want to state that I have never opposed the

17 question of mailings paid for by the district council. But

18 apparently Mr. Kelty's opponent has relied upon the rules, the

19 special rules and understood that he would have to engage in20 campaign fundraising. I understand that he did do that. So

21 that he -- he is not here complaining about the rules, nor do I

22 hear the district council complaining about the rules.

23 THE COURT: Let me ask this. What would it cost to do

24 a mailing for those two candidates? Roughly?

25 MR. D. WALSH: If you figure that 20,000 envelopes


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1 were mailed at approximately four dollars apiece, that would be

2 about $80,000.

3 THE COURT: Why would it be four dollars apiece?

4 MR. D. WALSH: There would be duplication costs. The

5 candidates would provide their material, but then it would have

6 to be duplicated by the production and mailing house.

7 That's just an estimate off the top of my head.

8 But I do not oppose the question of a mailing. But I

9 do point out that Mr. Kelty's opponent has relied on the

10 special rules which were endorsed by the Court and has acted

11 accordingly.

12 MR. KELTY: Your Honor, can could I say one thing

13 about the mailing?

14 THE COURT: You get the last word.

15 MR. KELTY: I'm the treasurer of local 157. It

16 doesn't cost us anywhere near that. We did a three-page

17 mailing actually last year. I think it came, for the nine plus

18 thousand members, it came to about seven, eight thousand

19 dollars. So it would only be about, if it's 20,000 members, it20 should be somewhere in the neighborhood of $20,000. To say

21 otherwise is -- to say it would be $80,000 is absolutely

22 ridiculous.

23 Also, in our bylaws, section 31(e) under the

24 notification for the elections. The mailing has to be sent out

25 specifically no less -- no more than 60 days, no less than 50


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1 days prior to the election. The election is actually going to

2 be on January 23, I believe. So that's well over the 60 days.

3 THE COURT: So you're saying there should be no

4 mailing because it can't comply with the rules.

5 MR. KELTY: I'm saying the mailing for the election

6 notice. Now if Mr. Walsh sent out a notice --

7 THE COURT: I'm really not understanding.

8 MR. KELTY: We have rules that for an election or a

9 nomination you have to have a mailing.

10 THE COURT: Right.

11 MR. KELTY: If it's a combined mailing, it can't be

12 more than 60 days before the election. So that's for a

13 combined mailing for an election and a nomination.

14 Now, that notice was sent out in the beginning of

15 November.

16 THE COURT: I'm not understanding.

17 MR. KELTY: It's a violation of our bylaws.

18 THE COURT: So you don't want to have an election?

19 MR. KELTY: No. I want to have a mailing is what I20 want to have. But there hasn't been -- proper notice to the

21 membership anyway.

22 THE COURT: So you're saying it's an invalid election?

23 MR. KELTY: Well I don't know if you could say it's an

24 invalid election.

25 THE COURT: I don't know what point you're trying to


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1 make. Are you interested in running in this election?

2 MR. KELTY: Yes, I'm interested in running in this

3 election. But I'm saying the rules haven't been followed.

4 THE COURT: I got it. So, I wouldn't be opposed to a

5 mailing either, Mr. Walsh, if one can be arranged for the two

6 candidates. Maybe that's something you could workout.

7 MR. D. WALSH: I can do that right now, Judge, when I

8 go back to the union.

9 THE COURT: Great. Okay. Thanks very much. Any

10 other issues I'll take under advisement. But the way things

11 stand right now we're continuing on the path that currently

12 exists with this one exception that a mailing will take place

13 with respect to the two candidates. Thanks very much.

14 MS. LaMORTE: Thank you, your Honor.

15 (Adjourned)

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1.06.2014 Court Conference

Documents

Transcript of 1.06.2014 Court Conference