1 Grand Jury Testimony of 21, 2003

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Grand Jury; Testimony of Ms.. Erica. Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

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13 TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE THE

14 208TH HARRIS COUNTY GRAND JURY

MONDAY; APRIL 21, 200315

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17 TESTIMONY OF

MS. ERICA JEAN DOCKERY18

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20 CAUSE NO..

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Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

APPEARANCES1

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3 For the State of Texas:

Dan RizzoAssistant District AttorneyHarris County, Texas

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1 PROCEEEDINGS

SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Okay. I need your2

left hand on the Bible and raise your right hand.3

You can sit down if you want. Okay. "Do you4

solemnly swear that you will not divulge either by5

words or signs any matters about which you maybe6

interrogated and that you will keep secret all7

proceedings of this Grand Jury which may be had in8

your presence and that you wild true answers make to9

such questions as maybe propounded to you by the10

so help you God?"Grand jury or under it's direction,11

12 THE WITNESS: Yes.

13 Thank you.SERGEANT-AT-ARMS:

THE FOREPERSON: Did you understand14

what you just read, ma'am?15


17 THE FOREPERSON: Okay. Being the

18 foreman of the Grand Jury, I have to read this Grand

Jury Appearance Witness Warning form.

Article 20.17,

19 "Pursuant to

20 Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, you

21 will be furnished with a copy of the warnings

hereinafter set out prior to any questions of you by22

23 the Grand Jury. You are further to be given

reasonable opportunity to retain counsel or to apply24

to the court for an appointed attorney, and to2,5

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consult with counsel prior to your appearance before1

2 the Grand Jury. Number One, Your testimony before

this Grand Jury is under oath." Do you understand3

4 that?

5 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

6 THE FOREPERSON: Okay. "Number two.

Any material question that is answered falsely before

this Grand Jury subjected to being persecuted(sic)

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for Aggravated Perjury." Do you understand that?9

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I do.10

11 THE FOREPERSON: What does "Perjury"

12 mean to you?

THE WITNESS:13' It's real bad.

14 THE FOREPERSON: What does it mean?

THE wiTNESS: It's lying.15

THE FOREPERSON: Okay, "Number three,16

you have a right to refuse to make answers to any17

18 questions, the answer to which would incriminate you

in any manner."19 Do you understand that?r


21 THE FOREPERSON: "Number four. You

22 have the right to have a lawyer present outside this

23 chamber to advise you before making answers to

questions you feel might incriminate you. "24 Do you

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.2.5 understand that?:

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THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.1

THE FOREPERSON: "Number five. Any2

testimony given may be used against you at any3

Do you understand that?subsequent proceeding."4


THE FOREPERSON: "Number six. If you6

are unable to employ a lawyer, you have the right to

have a lawyer appointed to you to advise you before

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making answer to a question the answer to which you9

feel might incriminate you." Do you understand that?10


THE FOREPERSON: Okay. This is signed12

by me on the 21st day of April, 2003.(foreman signs13

14 document at this time)

Okay, you.need to sign15 MR. DAN RIZZO:

16 both of these as well, okay?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.(witness signs17

18 document at this time)

What is your name, ma'am?

The one I just read the appearance form before the

19 FOREPERSON:

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Grand Jury to? Will you state it for the court? Or21

22 the Grand Jury?

THE WITNESS: Erica Jean Dockery.23

24 FOREPERSON: Okay. Thank you.

25 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.(affirmative)

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Did you say "Dockery?"1 GRAND JUROR:

"Dockery."THE WITNESS:2

Miss Dockery, I'm(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) Okay.3 Q.

going to ask you a few questions. First of all, how4

old are you, ma'am?5

6 I'm twenty-seven?A.

7 Twenty-seven?Q.

8 Yes.A.

Do you have -— and you have to keep your9 Q.

voice up for the Grand Jurors to hear you.10

Oh, okay.11 A

Do you have any children?

Yes, sir.

How many children do you have?

12'

Q

13 A

14 Q

I have three.15 A

And what are their ages and their names?16 Q

My oldest is Teeceal Dockery.

My second is Patrice Dockery.

And my last one Carlisa Pickett.

She's ten.'

17 A.

She's seven, I'm18

She's five.19 sorry.

And have you ever been in trouble20 .Okay.Q.

before?. 21

22 Traffic Tickets, that's it..A. No.

<2.23 Have you ever been arrested?Okay.

A. Traffic tickets.24

Okay. Other than traffic tickets?25 Q.

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1 No, no.A.

Okay. Who lives with you?2 Q.

Right now, my three girls. Dwayne isA.3

living there. Reginald Lewis Jones,, that's my4

cousin. Ruben Jones, that's his brother. Richard5

Jones, that's: his other brother. And Terrance Jones,6

that's their step-brother.7

You got a houseful.8 Q.

They liveThey go to school from my house.9 A.

They help me a lot, because I don't have awith me.10

babysitter. Like in the evening time, Reginald keeps11

the kids when I go to work.12

Well, you have two jobs, is that right?13 Q.

14 A. Yes.

15 Okay.Q.

They let me go from my16 Well, I had two.A.i

first one.17

Why was that?

They let me go because of what's going on.

18 Q.

19 A.

20 Is that because they found out youOkay.Q.

j,.2.1 were Dobie girlfriend?

22 Yes. Yes, sir.. A.

23 What jobs were they?Q.

24 I was doing Home Health Care. Where you goA.

25 keep elderly.

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1 Q. Yes.

And I was working nights at Subway.2 A.

3 At where?Q.

. 4 Subway.A.

5 Subway.Q.

6 The food restaurant.A.

How many hours a week were you working7 Q.

8 total?

Oh, I was pulling some hours. From Monday9 A.

thru Friday I was off on weekends on both jobs.10

Monday thru Friday,11 no, Monday thru Wednesday, I'm

sorry, at the Home Health Care, I worked 9:00 to1.2

f:; 13 2:00. And then Thursday and Fridays I worked 9:00 to

14 1:00. And then I go to Subway from 4:00 to 10:00.

15 And then Fridays 4:00 to 11:00.

16 Okay. So, you were gone in the mornings

and then you were gone in the afternoons? And you

Q.

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18 were gone -- you'd be back home for at least back

in April

April,

19 I'm sorry, back in the early part of

20 you were — you'd be available, I guess,

21 during the middle of the day.

sometimes.

Some time around noon,

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Sometimes she'll let me go early.23 A ...24 Okay.Q.

25 If I didn't have anything to do. And I'llA.

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1 But anytime after 2:00 is usually whencome home.

2 you can catch me.

Who's "Dobie?"3 Q.

And he's--4 Dwayne Brown.A.

Alfred?5 Q.

6 Alfred, yes.A.

And why do you call him "Dobie?"Okay.7 Q.

That's his nickname.8 I really call Dwayne.A.

9 And how long ,have you known him?Okay.Q.

I've been knowing Dwayne for four years.10 A.

How long have you been dating him?11 Q.

For six months.12 A.

?ÿ Six months?13 Q.

14 A. Yes.

Okay. Does -- and he lives with you?15 Q.

' Yes.16 A.

He wasn't working was he?17 Q.

18 I was trying to help

You know, me and him go to places

like -- where I live, they building up the community.

And they made a shopping mall.

No, sir, he wasn't.A.

19 him find a job.

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21 So,It's a Lowe's.

22 we'll go over there and I help him fill out

23 applications and everything. And my sister was going

24 to talk to some people at her job.

He didn't have a job already?25 Q.

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No, sir.1 A.

Has he had a job since he came out of the2 Q.

penitentiary?3

That's what I was doing.No, sir.4 He wasA.

when he came, out--5

Yeah.6 Q.

--he was talking to me and I was helping7 A.

And I told him, "Well, since--him find a job.8

Where was he looking for a job? Which9 0-

places?10

We would go to Lowe's, Footlocker, Foot11 A.

Actions.12

Did he put in an application at Lowe's?

Yeah, you have to do it on a computer.

13 Q.

14 A.

He did it?15 Q.

Yeah.16 A.

17 And that would've been Lowe's at...Okay.Q.

On the southeast freeway.18 A.

19 Okay.Q.

But I don't know how long they keep them20 A.

21 - there.

What other places did he put in22 .0.applications?23

24 At the Foot Action over there.A.

Foot Action, where?25 Q.

11

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April. 21, 2003

It's all across theAcross the street.1. A.

It's a big center.2 Street.

Okay. And what other nicknames does Dobie3 Q.

4 have?

That's the only one I know of.5 A.

It's just "Dobie?"6 Q.

Uh-huh.(affirmative)7 A.

And did anybody ever call him "D?"8 Okay.0.

Not that I know; of.9 A. No.

Ummm...now, the night before10 All right.0.

11 the robbery--


--you and he. had had an argument?13 0-

14 Yes.A.

What did you argue about?15 Okay.0.

I had came home from work.16 Okay. It wasA.

I get off at 10:00.17 around eleven-something. It

And he had18 takes me about 30 minutes to get home.

took the kids to a basketball game. My little cousin19

plays basketball. And he took the kids to the

basketball game. And he told me, "I'm fixing to go

out and hang out." And I'm like, "Hang out! At

eleven o'clock at night? , What do you need to go hang

out for?" I said, “If you don't have a job, you need

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25 He was like, "I can't doto be in the house."

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"Well, you feel like that, youanything." I'm like,1

2 can get your

Uh-huh.(affirmative)3 Q.

"--you need to get your things and leave."

That ain't the words I said, but I'm

like...(laughing) I'm like, "You need to get your

things and leave."

have a job, and I'm taking care of everything..."

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I said, "Because if you don't7

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9 said, "Me and you had an agreement.. 'You take care of

home while I work, until we find you a job and I quit

You agreed to that."

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11 one of the jobs.' It was no

hanging out with the friends, or anything.12 Because

when his friends come over there--13

14 Whose his friends?Q.

Shawn Glaspie, I don't know — I can't15 A.

16 I don't "Ghetto,and the one they call "Ghetto",

I didn't like them.whatever his name is.17

Q.18 You didn't like them?

And I told Dwayne--

Were they friends of his from the

19 No, I didn't.A.

20 Q.

21 - penitentiary or were they friends from the--

.22 He grew up with them.

Okay.

A.

23 Had they been in trouble a bunch,Q-

24 hadn't they?

25 I don't know. I heard, they have.A.

13

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21,2003 .

Okay.1 Q.

I don't, know for sure because I really2 A.

didn't get off into it with them.3

How about that area in Selinsky?4 Q-

I used to go down there, but not very much.•5 A.

I didn't even let him down there.6

7 Yeah.Q.

And .1 told him, I said, "You know what, who8 A.

you think are your friends are, not your friends."9

Let me ask you this. Did he go out with10 Q.

other girls too?11

12 I heard I heard rumors. But you don'tA.

believe everything you hear.13

14 Did he -- did you give him moneyOkay.Q,

15 regularly?

16 Yes, I did. His mom, his sister. Yes.A.

17 But did you?Q.

18 A. Yes.

How much did you give him regularly?19 Yeah.Q.

20 Like ummm...like if I had it to spare,

maybe sixty dollars,, a hundred.

A.

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22 A week or—Q.

23 like if I had it to spare, on aWell,A,

24 day-to-day basis.

25 Okay. Fifty or — fifty a day?Q.

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1 Yes.A.

That'd be like $350.00 a week.2 Q.

(laughing)3 A.

you're giving him $350.00 a week?4 So,Q.

Yeah, but he wouldn't use it. He'd use5 A.

like, say, in the house or gas in the car.6

Maintenance. You know, stuff like that. You know, I7

be like, "Well, Dwayne-- "8

How much were you making a week?9 Q.

I made all right.10 A.

Well,' if you were making -- if you were11 Q.

giving him $350.00 a week, were you making twice

that? Or were you giving him all the money?

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I wasn't giving him all my money. Oh,14 A. No,

no. Oh, no. I'm saying if I had it to spare, I15

16 would give him that.

Did you -- did you know that he and17 Okay.Q.

his friends may have been dealing some dope?18

That I don't know. I asked him. He told19 A.

"No." They always told me if you want to know20 me,

the truth, go to the horse himself.21 And that's what

22 I used to hear stuff likeI used to do. When

"Weil, he gave megirls would call me on the phone,23

such and such and such and such." You know. I24

I just did some25 didn't jump on him right away.i

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investigating on my own.1

Okay. Because you know that some of these2 Q.

people, they call -- these different women they call3

them, "Well, that's the baby's mama."4

Oh, well, I know Shironda. I talked to5 A.

' 6 her.

Yeah.7 Q.

She's all right with me.8 A.

Okay. How about Laquinta? What's the deal9 Q.

with her?10

She doesn't like me.11 I don't know.A.

She doesn't like you?12 Q.

She doesn't like me.13 She came up to my jobA.

14 maybe a week ago.

15 Yeah.Q.

But I feel like this,16 Trying to be messy.A.

I have kids.17 If I put my hands"I'm a grown woman.

on you, I know where I'm going. So, the best thing18

19 for me to do is tell you, 'Just get away from me, r II

20 you know.

Okay. Do you — are you still close with21 Q.

22 Dobie?

I talk to him.I go see him.23 A. Yes.

Yeah. Do you love him?24 Q.

In a matter of speaking of love,25 A. I'm not

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So, I just straight up told him., "Youmy children."1

know, you need to leave."2

Okay.3 Q•

So, I went upstairs--4 A.

You went upstairs. You go to bed?5 Q•

No, I didn't.6 A.

You were packing his stuff.7 Q.

I was packing his things.8 A.

And do you see him that night anymore?9 Q.

Yes, I did.10 A.

That night?11 Q.

I came back downstairs. I asked my12 Yes.A.

cousin Reginald, I said,. "Where's Dwayne?"13 No, I

When I'm mad at him, I call himcalled him "Alfred."14

15 "Alfred."

When you're mad?16 Q.

Uh-huh.(affirmative) I said, "Where's17 A.

Alfred?" He told me, "I just dropped him off." I18

said, "Dropped him off where?" He told me, "Over19

over there: in Villa Americana," that's the20 there

name of the apartments.. I said, "You dropped him, 2.1

"That don't even sound right."off." I said,22

So, Reginald tells you he's dropped him23 Q.

24 off?

He dropped him off.25 Yes.A.

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1 Over at the VA?Q.

2 A. Yes.

Okay. And then when was the next time you3 Q.

saw him?4

Well, I called his brother "Aaron Brown."5 A.

Q.6 Aaron?

And I called his brother and I told7 A. Yes.

"Let me tell you something.8 him, I said, You see

He say, "Yeah, I see; Dwayne.."9 I say,Dwayne?"

"he's standing in front of10 "Where he at?" He say,

I said, "Tell Alfred he better come get hisme."11

things." I said, "Because I'm not going to play with

him. Come get them right now." I said, "They going

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He said, "Erica,to be sitting outside, on fire."14

I said, "I ain't got time for this."15 what's wrong?"

This is Aaron talking to you?16 Q-

Yeah. He said, "What's wrong?" I said,'

17 A.

"Tell him to come get his things."18

19 Did you call him on his cell phone?Q-

20 A. Yes.

Okay. What's his cell phone number?

At the time? At the time he got a

.. 21 Q.

22 A.

different cell phone.23

Yes. At the time. You're pretty good with24 Q.

25 numbers, I can tell.

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Ummm...I'm trying to think.1 A.

Yeah.2 Q.

I can't even think ofWhat's the number.3 A.

I think it was...it was (281)it.4 I can't

I can't remember.remember.5

How about the last four?

The last --the last digits?

6 Q.

7 A.

8 Q- Yes.

It was somethingIt's either 4023 or ,,8023.9 A.

like that. 4023 or 4083. Something like that.10

You call him on his cell phone?11 Q.

I call him. on his cell phone12 A.

You call from your home phone?13 Q-

14: A. Yes.

And then, you tell him to come get15 Okay.Q-

his clothes or you're going to burn them?16

No, I told Aaron to tell him--17 A.

To tell him, yes.18 Q.

--to come get his stuff.19 A.

20 And what happens next?Q. -

I hang up the phone.21 .And I hung up.A.

22 Q. Yes.

So, Dwayne calls me back.23 A.

24 On Aaron's phone?Q.

25 Yeah.A.

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Grand jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

Does your caller ID show a call from Aaron?.1 Q.

Yes. It pops up. But it don't say the2 A.

"wireless call, and then thename, it just say,3

4 number."

5 Okay.Q.

And my cousin, he was on the phone, he say,6 A.

I'm like, "I don't want"Erica, Dobie on the phone."7

to talk to him. Tell him to come get his stuff."8 He

was like, "Erica, he say quit .playing and come get on9

I said, "Who said I'm playing?10 I'mthe phone."

Come get his things."11 serious.

Uh-huh.12 Q.

13 So, he hangs up the phone. The next thingA.

14 you know, 20 minutes later here comes Alfred walking

through the door. He banging on the door. He's just15

16 banging. I'm like, "Don't open that door."

Everybody sitting in the living room and they're17

"I'm fixing to go upstairs because Erica fixing18 like,

19 So everybody run upstairs, youto go off the chain."

know. The only person still sitting down there is

Reginald. Reginald is like, "I already know what's

fixing to happen. I ain't moving." So, I open up

the door. I said, "You think I'm playing with you.”

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24 He says, "What you talking about?" I said, "You

25 think I'm playing with you." I said, "Didn't I tell

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Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21 2003

you if you want to rip and run with your friends and1

be with the women, you need to leave my house because2

I'm not going to go through this with you." "Erica,3

stop playing." So, he gets up — you know, we4

standing in the kitchen/dinning room area and he5

And I'm like, "Oh, you6 goes to raise his hand.

So, I grabbed a big bottle of

bleach and I was fixing to throw it on him.

fixing to hit me?"7

8 And he

was like, "Hold up.9 That'sI'm sorry, I'm sorry."

10 what he told me, he said, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I

I say, "You know what, the bestnever hit you."11

thing for you to do is just get your stuff and12

1.3 leave."i;

.14 Did you think he was going to hit you ifQ.

15 you hadn't pulled that bleach?

16 Huh-uh.(negative)A.

He was just trying to scare you?17 Q.


1.9 so, you tell him to get hisOkay. So,Q.

2.0- stuff and leave?

A.21 Yes.

22 Then what happens?Q.

23 So, I go upstairs and I lay down in the

He comes upstairs. "Erica, I got to leave?" I

A.

24 bed..

25 said, "Did I tell you you could stay?" I said,

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'I'm not playing with, you this"Didn't you hear me?1

time." I said, "All other times I told you you could2

stay." I said, "But this time, I'm serious. Get out3

of my house." So, he ended up packing his stuff.. I

don't look at him. I don't look, "Baby, I'm not even

4

5

I got to go to work in the morning."worried.6 I'm

You did this." So, helike, "That's your fault.7

"Erica." I said, "Don'tstarted packing his things.8

Didn't I tell you I got to get up in9 call my name..

So, I'm thinking

The light goes out in the room-.

the morning." "All right, then."10

11 Andhe's leaving.

he goes back downstairs. So, I couldn't sleep. You12

know, when you used to being with somebody for so13

long,, you're used to sleeping with them, you really14

can't sleep at night. So,... I toss and turn. I15

In the morning time it was time to get the16 get up.

girls up for school.17

What time was that?18 Q.

But I had been up sinceIt's six o'clock.19 A.

like 4:00, just tossing and turning.20

When you get up and what happens?21 Q-

I get up and I go downstairs. And I see22 A.

And. I see Ruben or Reggie -- one of themhim.23

I went, "What!" I said,24 downstairs playing a game.

"What is he doing here?" And I tap him on his25

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shoulder. I said, "Didn't I tell you to get out of1

He rolls over and looks at me, laughs and2 my house?"

I was just like, "Okay, okay." I said,3 rolls back.

"I'm not even going to start with you this morning."

I went on and got my kids and got them ready for

4

5 So,

6 school.

What time did you get the kids up?7 Q.

Their busWhat time do I get them out?8 A.

So, I walk thÿm to their bus stop.9 comes at 6:50.

It don't take five minutes to walk them to their bus10

stop because they in front of the apartments.11

12 Okay.Q.

So, I walked them out about 6:45.13 ExcuseA.

14 me.

Was -- and so you -

getting the kids ready, who's on the couch?

while you're15 . Okay.Q.

16

17 He's on the couch, yes.A.

Okay. You're only gone for five minutes.18 Q.

19 UhT-huh.(affirmative)A.

Q.20 And that's probably somewhere around 6:00

-- well/ at 6:45, is that when the bus comes?. 21

No, the bus comes at 6:50.2.2 A.

23 So, at 6:45 is when you walk theOkay.Q.

kids to the bus stop?24

25 A. Yes.

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And that only takes five minutes?1 . Q.

It's right in front of the apartments, yes.2 A.

And then you're back—3 Q.

I'm back at home, yeah.4 A.

And then you don't leave out of there until5 Q.

what time?6

8:30.7 A.

Okay. When you left was Alfred still8 (2.

there?9

10 He was on the couch asleep. BecauseA. Yes.

I told him, "When I get home, I want you gone."11

Ummm...now, who made -- who was talking on12 0.

the phone that morning? Before you left?13

Who was talking on the phone?

Uh-huh.(affirmative)

14 A.

15 0.

It was a phone call on my phone.16 A.

You know.17 0-

That I know of?18 A.

19 That you—0.

the phone .Okay, the phone rung about20 A.

I can't say what time.rung that morning.21

A couple times.22 0.

All I remember is one -- hearing it one23 A.

time. So, it may have rung again after I left out24

25 the house.

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I'm talking about before you left.Okay.1 Q

Before I left? The phone rung.2 A

And?3 Q

I didn't answer it.4 A

Who got it?5 Q

I think Dwayne got it.6 A

Uh-huh.(affirmative) And how long did he7 Q

talk?8

I don't know. He was downstairs.. I was9 A.

upstairs with the girls.

And did you ask him who he was talking to

10

11 Q.

12 on your phone?

I asked him — . yeah, because I thought it13 A.

"Who'll come get you."was like somebody,14

And what did he say?15 Q.

I'm like--He said, "That's Shawn."16 A.

Hold on one second.17 Q.

18 Okay ..A.

19 Q. Let me stop you.

All right.All right.20 A.

„ So, he said, "Shawn called."

Uh-huh..(affirmative)

21

22 A.

And he answered the phone and talked to23 Q.

24 Shawn?

25 Uh-huh.(affirmative)A.

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And this is the one call?1 Q.

that's the one call that I know of.Yeah,2 A.

Okay. Hold on. And -- and you said,3 Q.

didn't you say. to him, "What's he calling so early4

for?"5

6 A. Yes.

And what did he say to you?

He's talking about,. "He's supposed to be

7 Q.

8 A.

coming to get me because you want me to leave."9

He was going to come pick him up?10 Q.

Yeah, because he wanted to leave.11 A. Because

I wanted him to leave, I'm sorry.12 Because. I wanted

13 him to leave. Which is -true. r did.

14 Okay. And where was he at when you leftQ.

15 your place?

16 Where who was?A.

17 Where was Alfred at?Q.

18 He was laying on the couch still.A. He was

19 still he never moved. He was still laying on the

20 • couch. ..He never moved.

21 Q. •, Yeah.

22 Because I started going off on him aboutA..

23 them calling my house. I don't like them. I don't

like for them to come to my house.24 And I don't like

25 them calling my house.i

27


Do you think he. got messed up in. all this0-1

because those two?2

3 A. Yes.

You blame it on them guys? Those two?4 Q,

I blame him too.5 Because—A.

Tempting...6 Q.

--you have the right to -- you have the

right to pick and choose your friends.

Let me ask you this /too.

. 7 A.

8

You know that he9 0.

has a reputation I'm talking about Alfred.-10

Uh-huh.(affirmative)1.1 A.

He has a reputation for jacking people out

there at Selinsky. That was his reputation. Him,

12 0.

C 1.3

And you heard that, haven't14 Shawn and also Ghetto.

15 you?

.1 heard it one time.16 A.

Uh-huh.17 0

I heard it one time.18 A

019 I mean I knew you'd heard it.

A Yeah, I heard it.20

21 0. Okay,

22 But personally I never—A

23 You just didn't believe it?0

24 I didn't believe it. Because. Dwayne don'tA

. 25 act like that type of person. Not with me, you know.

28


Not the way he is with my kids.1

You had also heard, I know, that you'd2 Q.

heard he was selling dope still? But you had not3

seen him?4

No, that I never heard.5 A.

You had not heard that?6 Q.

I didn't. All I heard was the rumor7 A. No,

about he was jacking folks.

Okay. Did you hear

8

well, you knew he9 Q. „—10 had a gun?

In the earlier part of our relationship, I11 A.

I knew it was a gun, but I12 had seen a butt of a gun.

And I said, "Dwayne, letjust seen the butt of it.13

me tell you something. I have kids. Don't bring14

15 that back in my house."

16 Okay.Q.

17 And I never—A.

But you knew he carried a gun because -- I18 Q.

mean you've been with him when he had it in his hands19

20 apparently? Is that true?

21 . A. No.

He had it in his pants, on the side? On22 Q.

23 the right side?

24 I ain't never seen — I ain't never seenA.

25 Dwayne with no gun.

29


1 No?Q.

Other than that time when he had it then.2 A.

"don't bring it back in my house."And I told him,3

Did you -- did you talk to Shawn orOkay.4 Q,

Ghetto anytime between 6:00 in the morning and 11:005

in the morning -- and I'm going to ask you6

specifically, did you talk to either Shawn or. Ghetto

anytime between 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. on that

7

8

morning of April 2nd?9

What day was that?10 A. .

That was the day that I'm sorry, the day11 0.

that this occurred, that would Thursday.12

Did I talk to him?13 A.

Did you talk to them at any time, on14 Q. Yes.

the phone, between 6:00 and 11:00?15

I'm trying to remember. I don't know.16 IA.

17 can't remember. I really can't remember.

Did you--18 Q.

But I don't remember answering the phone19 . A.

20 that morning after 6:00.

Do.you remember -- did you see them in21 Q--

person any time between that time? Six o'clock and22

11:00?23

24 No, I didn't.A.

25 So, if you talked to them -- if you did --Q-

30


If you did?it would've been on the phone?1

That's what I said. I don't talk to them.2 A.

I know, but I have to ask you specifically3 Q.

4 now.

Like if they call my house?5 A.

If they called your house, did you talk to

Even just passing the

6 Q.

them on the phone at any time?7

8 phone to Dobie?

That's the thing. I, do not I don't--9 A.

10 You don't remember?Q.

I don't recall.11 A.

Where are the phones located in your house?12 Q.

13 It's laying on the -- there used to be oneA.

14 in my bedroom.

At the time?15 Q.

16 They moved that one out of my room andA. No.

17 then my little cousin, Richard, put it in his room.

18 Okay.0.

19 And that's up and there's one downstairs in. A..

the living room.20

21 Okay. But you can hear the phones? It's a

fairly small house?

Q.

22

23 Yeah, you can hear the phone. They loud.A.

24 Yes, that's what I understand.Q.

25 Yeah.A.

31


And, so if the phone goes off you hear it?1 Q.

Yes, I do.2 A.

Everybody hears it.3 Q.

4 Yes.A.

Ummm...between 6:00 and eightOkay.5 Q.

sometime when you left--6 o'clock


I guess you left, at 8:30?8 Q.

Yeah, I left at 8:30,.9 A.

Okay. You said that Dobie told you that he10 Q.

got a call from Shawn?1.1

12 A. Yes.

Saying Shawn was going to come get him?13I Q.

Him and his stuff.Come pick him up.14 A.

All right.. Other than that you don't

recall any other phone calls?

Not that I know of. I can't remember. I

15 Q.

16

17 A.

18 can't remember.

19 Q. Ummm.'..

Let me think.. Ummm...A.

Did Shawn come by and pick up Dobie before21 Q,

22 you- left?

23 A. No.

24 Are you sure of that?Q•

A. Because when I left out that25 Positive.!

32


house at 8:30, Dwayne was still laying on that couch.1

And. what time did you get to work?2 Yeah.Q.

3 I get to work -- I leave at 8:30A. I get

4 to work about, about 8:55.

And you were working for Miss Berry?5 52-

6 A. Yes.

Okay.7 52-

Miss Alma Berry.8 A.

That Thursday morning you were working for9 Q

10 her?

Yes, sir.11 A.

12 When you were at work, did you get a phone52-

call from Dwayne?13

14 I got a phone call from Dwayne about tenA.

15 o'clock. But I called home about 9:30.

16 So, you called him first?Q-

17 I call home every morningI called homeA.

Make sure they cleaning up my house.

Because they tend, to get involved in their games.

Did you talk to Dobie at 9:30?

18 at 9:30.

19

.20 52-

21 I talked to Reginald.A. No.

22 Okay.

Reginald--

52-

23 A.

24 Listen to my question.52-

25 Okay.A.;

33


Dobie was already gone?1 Q.

I asked him -- Reginald -- where he was.2 A.

He told me he was upstairs. That's what he told me.3

That's what he told you?4 Q.

5 Yes.A.

You don't know if he was or not?6 Q.

I wasn't there.I don't know.7 A.

And you -- did you get a phone call from

from Dobie -- that morning? . .

8 Q.

him9

10 A: Yes.

About what time?11 2

It was about ten o'clock.12 A

And where did where did he call from?13 Q

14 He called from home.A

15 Q Are you sure?

That's what my patient phone caller ID16 A

said.17

18 So, you looked at that and said--Okay.Q.

She looked at it.19 A.

Okay.20 Q.

21 Because I'm not allowed to have phone calls

and that's what I was trying to explain to him.

What did he tell you?

. A-

22

23 So, it was unusual0-i.

24 for him to call?

25 No, they'll call. But I couldn't haveA.

34


But they still will call.them, you know.1

So, does Dobie call even though .he knew you2 Q.

wasn't supposed to get calls?3

And I tell him every time, "Don't4 A .. Yes.

Why you allI ain't supposed to have phone calls.5

6 calling me?"

So, you. said you talked about your business7 Q-

What did you talk about?there.8

First, when h,e called me.9 Okay. "Dwayne,A.

I thought it was -- really,why are you calling me?"10

I thought it was one of the boys calling me to tell11

me to come get the kids out of school because, you12-v;

13 know--

What did he say?14 Q.

Who? Dwayne? He was like, "We need to15 A.

16 . talk." I'm like, "Whatever." You know. I say--

What did he say though? What did he say?17 Q.

IHe's just saying, "We need to talk."18 A.

He's talking about, "Wesaid, "Talk about what?"19

need to talk about us." I'm like, "There ain't

nothing to discuss about us. He was like, "Erica, I

20

21

just want to talk to you when you get home."

"All right, then. . Whatever."

22 I say,

23 He told me, "You seen

the news?” That's when he told me. I said, "What.

the hell. What you. talking about?" You know. He

24

25

35


I said,telling me about, "Something happened."1

He's talking"What you mean, 'Something happened? / n2

I said, "What you"It's close to the house."3 about,

He's talkingI said, "What--"mean it's close."4

He was yelling at meabout, "Just turn on the news."5

really. He was like, "Just put it on channel 26."6

And how I know it was ten o'clock, because my. patient7

liked to watch "Price is Right "and "Ricki Lake."8

he tells you to .turn on the news to see9 So,Q

what happened?10


why did he say, "Turn onAnd what is he12 Q.

13 the news?"

He just called me and toldA. I don't know.14

15 me.

He calls you and tells you to put the news16 Q.

17 on?


To turn on the news to see what happened?


19 Q.

20 A.

And does he tell you what happened?21 Q.

He said--22 A.

23 What did he say?Q.

I'm telling you now. He said, "Erica--" I

said, "What the hell happened up there." Basically,

24 A\

25

36


He said, "That's wherethat's just what I said.1

ain't that where you go cash your check at?" I say,2

"You think it's that girl who be in3 He say,"Yes."

This is what he's saying tothere that got shot?". 4

5 me.

So, he's asking you if it was her?6 Q.

I'm like-I'm like7 A.

Or you're asking?8 Q.

I'm like, "Yq,u think?" And he'sYeah.9 A.

"You think it's the girl thatasking me too.10 He say,

I'm like, "I don't know. Igot shot up there?"1.1

don't see her car up there." I say, "It could." I12

I can't really see that fardon't know. You know,13b

14 off.


I don't see her car."16 "Oh, my God. I'mA.

like, me and her was really good friends, you know.17

When it all cameit wasn't the same girl.18 But we

out and they told the name, it wasn't the same girl.19

What else did he say though?20 Q.

That was it. And he was justThat was it.21 4.

like, I'm like, "All22 "I see you when you get home."

right, then.” And I hung up.23

Did he call again?24 Q.

25 A. No.i.

37


Did you call him again?1 Q.

L2 No. .A.

So, you only had one phone conversation3 Q.

with him that morning?4

5 Yes.A.

And then he called you? Is that right?6 Q.

7 Yes.A.

And it would've been about tenOkay.8 Q.

9 o'clock?

10 A. Yes.

Is there a caller ID on Miss Berry's phone?11 Q.

Yes, sir.12 A.

And did you look at it?13 Okay.Q.

She looked at it.14 A.

She looked at it?15 Q.

.16 A. Yes.

17 She told you?Q.

She told me, "Erica, it's your18 Yeah.A,

19 house. "

Did he tell you where he had been during20 Q.

21 the day?

No. We didn't even talk about that. He22 A.

23 just told me, "We need to talk." Aiid that--

When's the next time you saw him?

I saw Dwayne when I got home.

24 Q -A.25 Because

i

38


I get off at 1:00.that's a Thursday.1

So, you get home. He's there.2 Q.

He's there.3 A.

And what do you do?4 Q.

I was mad.5 A.

Okay. What do you guys do?6 Q.

"I need to talk to you." IHe was like,7 A.

went upstairs.8

Don't you guys go ta,ke a nap together?9 Q

10 A Yes.

11 Okay.Q

That's what we did.12 A

So, you must, not be that mad at this point?13 Q

1 really didn't feel like arguing.14 I wasA

tired15

16 So, you both go take a nap?


Okay.£>

17 A

And then -- did you did. he talk at all18 Q

19 any more about what he had done that day?

He was like,He didn't talk to me at all.20 • A. .

21 I'm like, "What is wrong with"I don't feel good."

He said he's been sick all this week.you?"22 And by

23 that time we was thinking I was pregnant.

But, that was, the. case.

Did he tell you what he had done on that

Thank God

24 I don't know.I'm not.

25 Q.•:

39


day?1

He didn't tell me anything. We really

didn't talk. He just said, "Get in the bed and hold

2 A.

3

.1 couldn't sleep without you last night." And4 me.

I got in the bed.that's just what I did.

Have you ever seen Dwayne with a gun?

5

6 Q.

Other than that first time, he was at my7 A.

8 house--

That's the only gun?,9 Q.

That's the only time I seen him with one.10 A.

What did the gun look like?

I told you I just seen the butt of gun.

Do you know the difference between a

11 0.

12 A.

Miy-13 0-

revolver and an automatic?14

I'm scared of guns.15 No.No.A.

did Dobie tell youUmmm...did16 Okay.0.

what to tell the police?17

18 No.A.

does thatDoes that -- would that19 0-

somehow shock you that I would ask you that question?20

No, it don't.’ But--21 A.

0. You act like--22

No, it shocked, me that it came out of your23 A.

24 mouth. Because’I was—Why does it shock you?25 0.

40


I was just saying, I wouldn't dare. And,,1 A.

if he did, it would not of, because I still wouldn't2

do it.3

Uh-huh.(affirmative) Did he tell you what4 Q.

to do -- what to say to the police?, 5

6 A. No.

Did he tell you — when did he find

out that the police were looking for him?

Okay.7 0.

8

9 A. I'm not sure.

When did you find out?10 Q.

I found out Friday. The day they picked11 A.

him up.12

fl So, you never knew the police were looking13 Q.

14 for him?

15 A. NO.

Did they pick him up from your house?16 Q.

They picked him up on -- I think it17 A. No.

was somewhere on McCowen or going somewhere over18

19 there.

• 20 0. Where was he going?

21 He. was going to the police station..A.

22 Because he knew that they were looking forQ.

him? "23

24 As a matter of fact I told him to doA. Yes.

25 that.

41

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

Did you -- have you talked to him since1 Q •

he's been- in jail?2

Yes, but I don't want to talk about it.3 A

I didn't ask you that?4 Q How many

5 I'm just saying--A

How many times have you talked to him?6 Q

I talked to him a bunch of times.7 A

How often do you talk to him?8 Q

I can't accept calls, so my sister -- I go•9 A.

to my sister's house and accept the call.10

How come you can't accept the call?11 Q.

My phone won't accept them.12 A.

Which sister?13 Q.

I only have one sister.14 A.

What's her name?15 Q.

Her name is Jenny Groth.16 A.

And what's her phone number?17 Q.

(713)571-0203.18 A.

Say that again?19 Q.

(713 > 571-0203.20 A.

Q.21 0203?

Uh-huh..(affirmative)22 A.

Did your -- so you go over there and you23 Q.

24 get collect calls?

25 Oh, sometimes she'llUh-huh.(affirmative)A.

42


call me three-way.1

Okay. Now, you talked three-way sometime

during that morning with some people, didn't you?

2 Q.

3

Where?4 A.

Did you talk three-way? Did you have a

three-way call at any time with Shawn and Dobie and

yourself?

5 0.

6

7

When?8 A.

Would that be the Thursday morning at all?9 Q.

10 A. No.

Did you -- who you talk three-way with now

when you talk to Dobie from jail?

11 Q-

12

My sister.13 A.

Your sister is a friend of his too?14 Okay.Q.

Yeah, she's -- she's friends with him.15 A.

Have you asked him what happened?16 I meanQ.

17 you obviously love this man?

A. Yeah. I asked him.18

Have you asked him what he was doing over19 Q.

20 there?

I asked him a .whole bunch of questions.

What does he say he was doing over there?

21 A.

22 Q,

And I asked him a bunch of questions.23 A.

Did you hear what I'm saying?24 Q

25 Yeah.A.[,

43

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms, Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

What does he say he was doing over there?.1 Q.

is. it—2 A.

I'm talking about over at the. place where3 Q.

the robbery happened?4

He said he wasn't there.5 A.

He's still telling you he wasn't there?6 Q.

7 Yes.A.

Okay. Do you believe him?8 Q.

I don't know to believe anymore.9 A.

So, you've asked him -- when was the last10 Q.

When was that?time he told that he wasn't there?11

Maybe about two weeks ago.12 A.

Two weeks ago is the last, time he said13 Q.

14 that?

Because I told him I don't want to15 Yeah.A.

talk about it. Why?16

I mean you love this man and you're saying17 Q-

18 you're not curious as to what--

I'm curious about a lot of19 I'm curious.A.

things'. But' I feel like this, if they all come out, .20

21 you know, and when I go up there I feel like, you

know, "Talk about something else."22 Because really,

23 I'm down about it, you know. Because--

24 Do you not want to know anything?Q.

25 Who?A..

44


Maybe?1 Q.

2 Me?A.

Yeah.3 Q.

if all come, you know -- I want to4 A. I

know. Really. I truly do. Because I feel sorry for5

that family. Really I do.6

I'm just curious why you — if you —7 Well,Q-

if you want to know--8

Why I don't ask the.question?9 A.

Yeah.10 Q.

Really? I don't really talk about it over11 A.

And then, two, when I go down there to see12 my phone.

him, I can't realiy talk about it there either.13

Why?14 Q.

15 I just can't. You can't really hear any of

And then you don't get enough time over

A.

it., really.16

You only get like 15 minutes and they'llthe phone.17

18 cut the phone off.

So, you're it's your

testimony in this Grand Jury that you never -- you

.never asked him what he was doing over there?

I asked him a whole bunch of questions.

it's your19 Q.

20

21

22 A.

What did you ask him?23 Q.

I asked him, I said,24 "Dwayne, was youA.

25 involved with that?"

45


And he said, "No," probably?1 P*

A. He said, "Erica, I didn't have anything to2

That's, what he told me.do with it,"3

Did he tell you he was over there that4 Q.

at. the furniture store?morning? At the5

6 A. No.

he was in aDid he tell you that he was7 Q.

white Grand Am?8

He never told irje anything like that.9 A. No.

He's told you what? What has he told you?10 P-

the things that I askedThe only thing I11 A.

him is like, "Dwayne, did you kill those people?" He• 12

13 was like, "No."

I'm not asking you that.14 Q.

15 Oh.A.

I'm asking you,16 "What does he tell youQ.

17 about what happened that morning?"

A.18 He, he don't talk that's what I'm

When I asked him, "Dwayne, did you do it?"19 saying.

20 He said he didn't do it.

Did you ask him what he was doing over21 Q.

22 there?

23 if he say he don't do it, IA. He say

It ain't no need to askfigure like he ain't there.24

25 that' question.;

46


Did he say that he didn't shoot someone or1 Q.

that, he wasn't part of the robbery?2

He saidHe said he's not a part of that.3 A.

He wasn't there.he didn't do it at all.4

He said he.wasn't there?5 Q.

That's what he tells me.He wasn't there.6 A.

He wasn't there.7

I guess the last question is is do you8 Q.

really believe him?

Honestly?

I mean hqnestl.y?9

10 A.

Yeah, do you believe him?1.1 0-

Honestly?12 A.

"Yes," or, "No," is what I'm asking? Do13 Q.

you believe him?14

Before I say "Yes," or,15 "No, 11 can I sayA.

something else?16

Well, first., if you could answer just the17 Q.

"No."18 "Yes," or,

That's why I wanted to sayI don't know.19 A ..

what I wanted to say first.

So, you don't know what to believe?

Deep in my heart -- really -- deep in my

20

21 . Q-

22 A.

I feel like Dwayne really didn't -- was really23 heart,

But deep in my heart I figure like he knew24 there.

something about it. And knowing is just as worse.25

47


1 Deep--

What do you mean, "He knew something about2 0.

it?"3

I just -- just what I said. You know. How4 A.

them going to be your friends and all of a sudden5

they implicate you in something like this. And you6

know nothing. Nothing.7

Does he hang out with "Deuce," also?8 Q.

Who is "Deuce?"9 A.

10 Do you know Deuce?Q.

I heard that name.11 A.

You heard that name, that's why IYeah.12 • Q.

kind of curious why you act like you did,, but--13i

'No, I heard that name. I know who Deuce14 A.

is.15

So, you do know who Deuce is?16 Okay.0-

17 Yes.A.

Ummm...how about "Juju?" You know18 Okay.0.

JUju also?

I can't recall his face.20 I -- I: can'tA.

You've heard the name?21 0.

Yeah, I heard the name, yes. I really22 A.

didn't -- really hear his name until all this got23

24 • started.

Well, what did -- what did you hear after25 0-!

48

Grand Jury.Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

r

this got started?1i

I heard that his baby's mama called there.2 A.

What was that, Friday?3

Which baby's mama? There's a bunch of them4 Q.

out there?5

He's only got one little girl.You know.6 A.

Yeah, but LaQuinta, they call her "Baby's7 Q.

8 Mama, " too.

(laughing)9 A,

10 Don't they?Q.

11 Let me tell you something, the only babiesA.

that I know pickup,, is Kiera. And that's with12

13 Sharonda.

Yes, but they call Laquinta? -14 Q-

15 A. No.

16 They don't?Q.

No, they call her "Late Night Hike," that's17 A.

what they call her.18

19 GRAND JUROR: Oh, my God.

20 THE WITNESS: That's what they call

21 her, to be honest. That's what they call her.

You got to be joking?22 GRAND JUROR:

THE WITNESS: No. That's what they23

24 call her.

(BY MR-. DAN RIZZO) So, okay, his baby's25 Q.

49


mama tells you what?1

She says, "Juju over here telling the2 A.

police that you live with me. And they coming in my3

And, you know, I'm like,house and harassing me."4

"Baby, this is not Dwayne. Hold on." I gave the5

phone to him, you know. . Because I really didn't want6

to get into it with her.7

8 Okay. Hold on one second.Q.

9 Okay.A.

(prosecutor confers with investigator) I10 Q•

guess the one. thing I need to ask you -- I know that11

— I want to make sure that you are given an12

opportunity to correct any mistakes that you may have13

made in here. Okay? Anything that you. have said14

that may be a misstatement, that may be a lie, under15

oath, a Grand Jury could decide was Aggravated16

Perjury--17

I understand what you're saying.18 A.

Okay. Let me finish.19 Q.

20 Go ahead.A.

21 Ummm...Grand Juries are allowed to give theQ.

witness an opportunity to correct any statements or22

misstatements, false statements to the Grand Jury23

misleading statements to the Grand Jury.24

25 Okay.A.

50


And what I want to do is give you that

I know that you have

1 Q-

opportunity if you want to.2

children.3

4 Yes.A.

I know that you work -- you were workingQ.5

And you never been in trouble, as far as Itwo jobs.6

know.7

8 A. Yes.

And I do know that you love Dobie.9 Q-

Not much better than my kids. I love my10 A.

kids more.11

But if there were --I .would imagine so.12 Q.

and T can't tell you about the investigation -- but13

if there was other evidence, from other sources,14

including admissions--


15

16 A.

17 to him being--from Dobie, as to where0.

18 out there.

Uh-huh.(affirmative) All I can tell you--19 A.

And let me finish.20 Q-

A. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead..21

And if you are. making statements that are22 Q.

false to this Grand Jury. You've made false,23

material statements, that you know are false, then I.24

want to give you an opportunity right now--25

51



—to correct any of those. Okay?2 Q.

Uh-huh.(affirmative) I understand what3 A.

4 you're saying.

And I guess the Grand Jury, at this point,

we're going to give you that opportunity right now to

If you want to correct any of those

statements that you made--

The only thing--

5 Q.

6

7 do that.

8

9 A.

--that would be false.10 Q.

The only thing that I believe--

I'm not asking you what you

.11 A-

12 Q- No, ma'am..

I'm asking you if you want to — do you13 believe,

understand what I'm saying?14

I understand that you're saying.15 A.

Is there any statements that you16 Okay.0.

want to make -- you know that you testified under17

18 oath?

19 Yes, I did.. A.

20 Okay. And you heard what I just said toQ.

21 you?

22 A. ' Yes. -

And I'm going to give you an opportunity to

correct any misstatements..

To a question?

23 Q.

24

25 A.

52

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms.. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

Anything that you said, ma'am.

obviously, in this Grand Jury obviously, have other

information we can't tell you what that is.

And we,1 Q.

2

3


This investigation has been going for5 Q.

sometime and will continue to.6

7 Yes.A..

So, there's certain things that we know for8 Q.

a fact.9


And what I'm asking you is, there are11 Q.

certain statements that you made to us that may not'

12

And what I'm. asking you is, ishave been truthful.13

there anything that you want to correct at this14

point?15

16 A. I--

Or do you want to stand by everything17 £?ÿ

you've said?18

The only thing that I can find myself

really correcting is—19 A.

20

21 Q. Yes, ma'am.

---is like the time.22 A.

23 I'm going to talk about the.times.Q.

24 It's like, umxnm.. ..A.

Like, what times?25 Q.

53


Like the morning calls. I can't recollect,1 A.

2 you know--

Not things you can't recall. I'm talking3 Q.

That you said.about things that are false.

I don't know anything that's false.

4

Like I5 A.

Anything that go onsaid, I leave home at 8:30.6

after 8:30-- .7

Let me ask you this specifically?8 Q.


You have made a statement that Dobie was on

the couch when you left at 8:30?

10 Q.

11

12 A. Yes.

Are you sure it was 8:30? I want to ask13 Q.

you if you want to correct that statement at all?14

"Yes," or, "No?"15

16 Would I want—A.

listen to my questions.Listen17 Q.

Okay. Go ahead.18 A.

I'm just asking -- I'm not trying to be19 Q.

offensive to you, I just have to ask you specific20

21 questions.

22 A. Yes.

23 Do you want to correct that statement. TheQ.

24 statement that you made that Dobie, Alfred, was on

the couch still when you left at 8:30 on that25

54


morning?1

When I walked out that house at 8:30 that2 A.

morning?3

I'm asking you- -- see, you're not listening

to my question or you don't want to answer that

Do you want to change that statement in

The statement that you made earlier that

4 Q.

5

question.6

7 any way?

Dobie was on the couch when you left that morning at8

9 8:30.

Do I want to. change it?10 A.

Do you.want to change that in any way?.11 2.

Maybe I don'tYes, I want to change it.12 A.

remember the time.13

well, what time would you have14 Q. I'm not

15 left?

sometimes I leave I leave out of16 A. I

A lot—there at all times.17

What time would that have been?18 Q.

I leave out of there at 8:30,19 8:35.A.

Something like that. But when I left out that20 .

morning, I know it was eight something.21 Because I

22 can't be late.

Well, okay. So, approximately--23 Q.

. 24 Dwayne was still--A.

It was approximately 8:30--25 Q-

55'


It was approximate.1 He was—A.

—when you left?2 Q.

--still on the couch.3 A.

Is there anything you want to changeOkay.4 Q-

wi'th that?5

That's it.6 A.

see, I have to ask you "Yes,"Is that7 Q.

8 or, "No."

Sir, I don't know anything else.9 A.

Q. "No, you don't want toWould that be a,10

1.1 change that answer?"

Because that's the time.12 No, I don't.A.

m--,You know, maybe I'm wrong on my13 That's all I can do.

times, but that's—14

How much can you be wrong on it?15 0.

Maybe ten or fifteen minutes.16 A.

So, no more than ten or fifteen minutes?17 Q.

18 No less.A. No more.

And Dobie was there sometime between 8:1519 Q.

and 8:45?20

Yes.

When you left?

21 A..

•22 Q.

23 When I left, yes.A.

And that's something you don't want to24 Q-

25 change?(

56


Say that again.1 A.

You don't want to change that statement, is2 Q.

all I'm asking you?3

Between those times, when I went4 A.

He might have leftdownstairs, I left out the house.5

That's what I'mI don't know.right after me.

But when I was there that morning...saying.7

8 Okay. Okay.Q

FOREPERSON: Lÿt me just interject.9

He's justDid you understand what he's trying to do?10

11 asking you--

THE -WITNESS: I didn't know if I1.2

13 understand it.

--if any statement that14 FOREPERSON:

you said, that you would like to change now in front

of this Grand Jury? Me, being the foreman of the

Grand Jury and these 11 people are now in front of

you. Something that you'd said is what he's asking

you i.f you'd like to change that statement, is' there

15

16

17

18

19

20. ' just a "Yes," or, "no," about the time or where--

Yes.21 THE WITNESS: Oh, yes.

22 FOREPERSON: --Dobie, or Dobie was

23 that morning that you left?

THE WITNESS: Yes,' I would like to24

25- That's what I'm saying.change it.

57


FOREPERSON: What would you like to1

2 change?

THE WITNESS: Maybe the times. Maybe3

I'm wrong on my times.4

FOREPERSON: What you said was only5

Is that correct?ten or fifteen minutes.6

7 THE WITNESS: Yeah, maybe ten or

fifteen minutes. Yes. I might be wrong about my8

times.9

But he was there when10 GRAND JUROR:

she left.11

THE WITNESS: But he was there when I12

That's all I -- maybe he left -- he probably13 left.

had a car waiting around the corner or something.14

But he was there when I left.15

So, he could've left and16 FOREPERSON:

Could he have done that?came back?17

If he could've left and18 THE' WITNESS:

came back, it was somebody in the living room. They19

20 would've told me.

21 (BY MR. DAN RIZZO).Were you in the livingQ.

room the whole time? You only -- you saw him at what22

times?23

I saw him — I came down around 6:00.24 A.

25 He was there?Q.

58


1 He was there.A.

And then at 8:30 you said he was still on2 Q.

the -- when you saw him he was still on the couch?

I went back upstairs and I came back

down to take the girls to school, he was still there.

When I went -- when I came back in from taking the

girls to school, I go straight up and go get dressed

for work.. I take my shower and--

So, you're in and oiÿt of the house at this

3

4 Yes.A.

5

6

7

8

9 Q.

10 time?

11 I'm in and out, yes.A.

And he — and you only saw him there?12 Q •

I don't be looking at noA.13 I saw him there.

times, basically.14

Between 6:00 and 8:30 he was there?15 Okay.Q.

16 He was there.A.

that's whatAnd that's the story17 Okay.Q.

18 you want to say?

A. That's all I can do is testify to what I19

what I did.20

21 Okay..Q.

If you could wait one22 MR. DAN RIZZO:

23 second outside here.

24 THE WITNESS: Sure..

25 (Grand Jury takes a break at this time)

59


FOREPERSON: Do you want to state that1

we just took a break, whatever it is?

MR. DAN RIZZO: Okay. For purposes of

2

3

the record we've just taken possibly a ten-minute4

And you are one and the same Miss5 break or so.

Dockman--6

THE WITNESS: Dockery.7

Dockery, I'm sorry.

You testified here just a few ago, right?

MR. DAN RIZZO:8

9

THE WITNESS: Yes.10

MR. DAN RIZZO: And we just took a11

And where you were outside of the Grand Jury12 break.

room, is that correct?13


(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) There's just a couple15 Q.

who are — what wasmore questions. Do you16

Shawn's cell phone number?17

I don't have my phone in front of me.18 A.

What do you need your phone for?1.9 Q

I need it to, see what I dial.20 A.

21 GRAND JUROR: Here.

(Grand Juror slides his cell phone to witness)22

I won't push the23 THE WITNESS:

buttons.24

GRAND JUROR: No problem.25

60


If you want just dial it,1 FOREPERSON:

just don't push "send."2

I'm trying --.I remember3 THE WITNESS:

I'm trying to remember thethe last four numbers.4

three numbers in between.

The prefix numbers.6 GRAND JUROR:

THE WITNESS: Yeah. I know the first7

8 three numbers is (832)...

(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) Wfhat's the last four9 Q

10 numbers?

The last four numbers was... It'd help if11 A.

I can remember the numbers in between.12 Golly, what

13 is~-

Have you ever seen his14 GRAND JUROR:

15 phone?

THE WITNESS: His phone?16

17 GRAND JUROR: Yeah.

THE WITNESS: It's gray.18

GRAND JUROR: No, the make of the19

20 phone? Is it a Sprint, Houston Cellular or...

It's a -- it's Sprint.21 THE WITNESS:

22 It's a new One that just came out. The ones where

23 you can take pictures.

GRAND JUROR: So, it's Sprint? Then24

it's Sprint?25

61


THE WITNESS: Yeah.1

(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) Shawn had one?2 Q.

Yeah. Now, I remember Ghetto number real3 A.

good because Dwayne used to keep his phone.4 So, I

know his number. It was (832)228-3006. I remember5

that number real good.6

He used to keep it and use it?7 Q.

He used to keep it and use it, yeah.8 A.

That-'s what he had.9

Is that one of those phones with the photos10 Q.

11 also?

it's just a regularNo, this is the12 A.

I don't get into thatlittle phone.13 It's not

high-tech.14

I think one grand juror had aAll right.. 15 Q.

— something he wanted to ask.16

I want to make sure that17 GRAND JUROR:

you understood the question that the Assistant D.A.

asked you earlier about, "Was there any way that you

might want to change your mind on some of the

testimony that you gave here this morning?"

reason I am ask you this is because you seem like a

good,.nice, young lady--

18

19

20

21 And the

22

23

24 THE WITNESS: I am.

25 --a hard-working youngGRAND JUROR:

!

62


lady--1

2 THE WITNESS: I am.

GRAND JUROR: And if we find out that3

you're not telling the truth, we're coming after you.4

5 THE WITNESS: I, I know that.

And you don't have a6 GRAND JUROR:

The only record you got is your citations--7 record.

THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.(affirmative)8

--and you've- been to9 GRAND JUROR:

jail for that. But nothing else.10

THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.(affirmative).11

GRAND JUROR: And if we find out, that

you were lying, under oath, you can be in serious

12

13

14 trouble.

THE WITNESS: I understand.15

16 And you won't be able toGRAND JUROR:

17 get a job flipping burgers.

(laughing)Yes, sir.18 THE WITNESS:

"GRAND JUROR: You got three children19

20 that you're trying to take care of..

why,I'.m asking you,

And so that's

2.1 and I'm appealing to you-ÿ-

22 THE WITNESS It is the--

23 Let me finish.GRAND JUROR

24 Oh, go ahead.THE WITNESS

25 --to make sure thatGRAND JUROR

63


Tell the guy the truth ofyou're telling the truth.

the question that he's asked you.

1

2 Because you won't

have another opportunity. Once you leave out of this3

4 room--


--it's over with.6 GRAND JUROR:

I understand.7 THE WITNESS:

And then they come after8 GRAND JUROR:

9 you.

THE WITNESS: Yes... I understand.10

And then Who's going to11 GRAND JUROR:

take care of your three kids? Nobody.12

THE WITNESS: Nobody.13

GRAND JUROR: Dobie sure ain't going14

to take care of those kids.15

16 THE WITNESS: Oh, I know it.

17 GRAND JUROR: Okay?


GRAND JUROR: So, if there's anything19

in there that you want to change, think about it20

. 21 before,you. answer.

22 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.(affirmative)

23 We got the time for youGRAND JUROR:

24 to sit here and think. Okay?

25 THE WITNESS: The only thing I canI

64


think of is the times. You know. Because I really1

don't look at the clock a lot. You know. Pretty2

much when the sun come up, I pretty much know my time3

of day. You know. And that's before the time: was4

You know my clocks are set like 20 minutes .changed.5

That's the only thing that I'm off. My times.6 fast.

All I know is when I walked out thatMy times.7

house, he was laying on the couch.8

(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) you wouldn't have9 Q.

10 left --you would've left somewhere between 8:15 and

8:45?11

ifI would've left I would even left12 A.

I could've left from 7:30 andI was mad at him,13

I just can'tstopped and get me some breakfast.14

That's why I was sitting in the.15 my times is off.

16 hall thinking about.

17 All right. That's important. We need toQ.

find out.18

And just the thing, I can't19 I can'tA.

20 remember.

Were you mad at him that morning?21 : Q-

Huh? Was I still mad? Yes, I was still22 A,

Because he was still in my house.23 mad.

24 Did you eat breakfast at home?Q.

25 I never eat breakfast at home.A. No.F.:

65


Did you leave early to go get some1 Q.

breakfast?2

Yeah, I ate breakfast that morning. I3 A.

stopped at Burgerking or something.

Okay. Is that a, "yes, you did leave early

4

5 Q.

to go get breakfast?"6

I'm trying to remember. I could have. I7 A.

I cannot remember.cannot remember.8

it could've beer} 7:30 in the morning?9 Q. So,

it could'veYeah, it could've been seven10 A.

been any time because I was really mad.11

Could it have beenLet me ask you this.12 Q-

before 7:30?13•/•>

No, I wouldn't have left that early because

she ain't going to let me in her house.

14 A.

She ain't15

going to let me in her house that early.16

Even with breakfast, it would've been at17 Q.

the earliest 7:30--18

It's traffic.19 A.

That's not what I'm saying.20 Q

21 Okay.A.

At the earliest it would've been 7:30?22 Q.

Yeah, it would be about 7:30 the earliest I23 A.

leave. I would leave about 7:30. If I was24 I was

so I was really trying to' really mad that morning25 /

66

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 2.1, 2003

avoid him.1

So, you think you may have left at--2 Q.

I could have, yes.3 A.

—7:30.4 Q.

I'm trying to remember. I cannot remember.5 A.

Try and remember.6 Q.

7 Yes, I'm trying. That morning was rough.A.

Because you had -- you put the kids on the8 Q.

By 7:00 they weÿe already gone?9 bus by 7:00.

6:50.10 About 6:50,-yeah.A.

And you were already dressed.11 Q.

I'm dressed already.12 A.

So, could -- because, you had gotten dressed13 Q.

before you took the kids to the bus stop, is that14

15 right?

I didn't get dressed before I left.16 A. No,

When I got back -- when I walked back through the

that's when I went upstairs and got back

17

18 door,

19 dressed.

20 How long did it take you to get dressed?Q.

I had already took my shower that night.21 A.

It would take me about 20 minutes.22

So, could you have been leaving--23 , Okay.Q-

24 I know when I got dressed, I grabbed myA.

25 keys and my purse and I tapped him on the shoulder..i

67


And I told him,1 "I want you gone," when I left. I

didn't look at the time, I just walked out the door.2

3 Okay. Let me stop you for a second.Q.


As soon as you got dressed, which you5 . Q.

claimed took you about -- approximately 20 minutes?6


Then you were right out the door after8 Q.

9 that?

I walked back downstairs, tapped him on the10 A.

shoulder, and told him--11

12 And walked out.Q.

.1.3 And walked out the house..A.

Which is normal14 earlier thanQ. more

15 normal?

16 no, because sometimes when I want toA. Yes

17 get breakfast, and I know there's traffic on the

18 freeway, I leave about 7:30.

19 If you -- if it took you 15 or -- 15

or 20 minutes, is that what you said?

Okay.Q.

20 I'm sorry.

21 What to get--A, '

22 Q. Yes.

23 Twenty minutes to get dressed.

Twenty minutes to get dressed, when you've

A.

24 Q.

already taken a shower the night before?25

68



Twenty minutes to get dressed, and you were

-- you took the kids -- they're out of the house at

2 Q.

3

4 6:45?


So, you're back into the house by

5 A.

Okay.6 Q.

6:50 approximately?7

I'm back in the house about...8 No,A..

What time?9 Q.

About 7:00.10 A.

About 7:00?11 Q.

A. Uh-huh.(affirmative)

Okay. So,

12

and then 20 minutes to get13 0-

dressed.14


So, approximately 7:20 you were out--16 Q.

Something like that.7:20, 7:25, 7:30.17 A.

18 Because it didn't .take -- it didn't take me long.

19 And sometimes I can't find my shoes or something like

20 that.'

We're just trying to get as specific as we21 Q.

can.. So, that's the only thing you want to correct

is that time?

22

23

24 Is my time.. My times is off.A.

listen to my question.Listen The only25 Q.

69


thing that you want to correct is that it could have1

been 7:00 -- as early as 7:20 that you left, and he2

lwas still there?3

It could've been.4 A.

And then in terms of terms of the phone5 Q.

calls that came in, do you remember any more than one6

phone call that morning?

All I remember the phone ringing was once.

7

8 A.

The second time, my cousin -- ..I think it was Richard9

It was his little girlfriend.10 that got the phone.

11 But you only remember--Q.

Yeah, that twice.12 A.

How do you know that it was his girlfriend?13 Q.

Richard's girlfriend? Because she was,14 A.

"This Minnie."15

16 So you picked it up?Q.

17 Yeah.A.

So, you did pick it up?18 Q•

And she'll say, "This is Minnie."19 Yeah.A.

20 And he'll be like -- he'll grab the other phone.

Anything else in terms of the phone calls21 Q.

22 that you want to correct?

23 I used to cuss him out. I used to cuss himA.

24 out.

25 Do you understand what I'm saying?Q.

70


1 Yes.A.

Was there anything else in terms of your2 Q.

testimony concerning the phone calls, that you want3

4 to correct?

My phone calls?5 A.

You don't understand the question?6 Q.

No, I don't.7 A.

You testified -- you testified about phone8 Q.

calls in the morning.9


You testified about Shawn calling in the11 Q.

You're not sure what time.morning at some point.12

13 A. I'm not sure.

Dobie talked about Shawn picking him up.14 Q.

Yeah.15 A.

And you talked about some little girl16 Q.

17 called?

18 Yeah.A.

Okay. Do you want to correct anything else19 Q.

concerning phone calls before you left?20

That's the only thing.

down, I'm like, "Who was that calling?"

21 Because when I wentA.

And he's22

23 And I'm must just — I jumped on him.like, "Shawn."

"What did I tell you?"24

25 But do you -- are those the only calls thatQ.

71

Grand Jury- Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

1 you—Them the only calls that I know of.2 Yes:.A.

Other than me taking my kids to school and everything

If he got some phone calls, I wasn't in the

3

4 else.

house.5

Okay. Ummm...okay. The only thing else I6 Q.

have to tell you before we ask the -- oh, yeah, the

clothing. What was he wearing when you left?

What was he wearing?, Oooohhh. I don't

7

8

9 A.

think he changed from the night before. So, it was a10

red shirt that said "Shawn John." It's all red. It11

got red -- it come about right here.(indicating)

got gray right here.

12 Ity: “

13

Now, for purposes of the record you're14 Q.

pointing to your elbow?15

The shirt comes to about right here16 A. Yeah.

17 to him.

So, it would be like a short sleeve to the18 Q.

19 elbow?

20 And it have gray and it have grayA. Yes.

21 letters that say "Shawn and John."

Okay. Now, gray -- you're saying it has a •22 Q.

23 gray stripping around the elbow area?

24 Yes.A.

25 And then a gray writing across the front?Q.

72


1 A. It say--

2 Diagonally, that says, "Shawn?'?Q.

"Shawn John."3 A. Yes.

4 "Shawn John?"Q.

5 Yes.A.

Okay. What did he have on for pants?6 . Q.

some blue jeans acid washHe had on some7 A.

pants. That's -- yeah.8

9 Okay.Q.

Because I bought that outfit.A.10

Is there anything that we didn't ask you11 Q.

that you think might be important in this case?12

13 A. No.

How about anything else that you'd like to

change concerning your conversations with him since--

14 Q.

15

16 My conversations with him?A.

17 Since this happened? What he's told you?Q.

18 That's the thing. He — when I go to --A.

when I went to Dwayne the very first time--19

20 Is thereThat could be a "Yes," or a "No."Q.

21 anything you want to change or add?

Yes, I want to add something.22 A.

Okay. What is it then?23 Q.

24 Okay. When I went to Dwayne, the veryA.

first time I went to Dwayne—25

73


What was when? When he was in jail or he1 Q.

2 wasn't?

He was in -- he was in jail.3 A.

Q. He was in jail.4

Yes. And I went to him. And I said,5 A.

"Dwayne, you got me mixed in some foul stuff."6

0. he was where was he:7 He was — you

sitting and where were you sitting?8

Ummm...when I got of,f the elevator, the9 A.

first row.10

Okay.11 Q

And he was -- we was in the last...12 A

Last booth?13 Q

Yeah, last window. Yeah, last booth.14 A

He said -- you said something to him?15 Q

16 A Yes.

Tell us what it was that you said?17 Q

And I told him, I said, "What you got me18 A.

mixed up in?" You know. He was like, "I wasn't19

That's what he said.I didn't do it."20 there. I'm

I got. more to looselike, "Dwayne, I got three kids.21

He was like, "Erica, all I knowthan I would gain."22

I didn't do it." And then Fridayis I wasn't there.23

night -- I mean Friday, that day they did picked him24

25 up—r

74


1 Q Yes.

And I was like, "Dwayne, what's going on?"2 A.

Because I really didn't know.3 You know. I was

I'm like, "Dwayne, what's goingreally in the dark.4

What is this they're talking about?"5 on?

You talking on the phone to him?6 Q.

No, I'm talking to him.7 In person.A.

Right.8 Q

"Dwayne, what is going on? YouI'm like,9 A.

know, everybody said the police looking at you.

supposed to be involved in this.

He was like, "Erica, I didn't do it.

10 You

What's going on?"11

12 You know. I'm

I said,not going down for something I didn't do."13

"I'mI said,"You better get up and do something."

not going to have no policemen running in my house.

You know, my kids are here."

14

15

I said, "Do you know I16

And we were just arguing back andcould go to jail?"17

forth. And then by this time Quetha(sic) calls my18

19 house.

The one that was here--20 Q.

21 A. Yes.

22 And what did she say?Q.

She talking about, "You ain't going to have23 A.

him either, bitch." (grand jurors and witness24

It wasn't funny then, butlaughing)25 It's not funny.

75


it's funny now because she's a joke to me, you know1

what I'm saying.2

Did he -- what I'm asking you is concerning

Did he tell you anything other

3 Q.

What Dobie told you.4

5 than that?

"I didn't do it."He just said,6 He said.,A.

"Shawn is known for jacking people." That's what he7

8 told me.

Did he say anything ,.about why he was there9 Q.

10 that day?

11 Why he was where?A.

12 Did he admit to you that he was at the CashQ.

'vi::' 13 place?

14 He never admitted that he was with them.A.

He never did. Never.15

16 Never said anything to you about that?Q.

He never said — he never said he was with17 A.

He never said he had — he didn't go. He18 them.

19 never said. Never, never.

20 So, he's always tried to tell you that he

stayed at your place?

He -- that's what he's been trying to tell

me, but like I told him,

Q-

21

22 A.

"How did this all come23

24 about? Everybody saying this and everybody saying

25 that." I know you don.'t supposed to believe what you

76


hear, but everybody ain't going to be saying the same1

thing. And I keep telling him...

So, you don't think he's telling you the

2

3 Q.

truth?4

Somewhat, yes.5 A.

Why is it that you keep going to see him6 Q.

then?7

To be honest, I don't know.I don't know.8 A.

You know. I don't know.9 «

If you believe that he actually he killed10 Q.

those people--11

I would've turned him in myself.12 A:

But you're saying that you -- you think

there maybe something to it. That he may have been

13 Q.

14

involved in it now?15

It's best just to get all the facts.16 A.

Well, what we're going to do is

We may recall

Okay.17 Q.

we're going to let you go right now.18

You can't discuss what happenedyou at some point.

inside the.Grand Jury with any person.

asks you what was said, you can't repeat it.

can't ask -- you can't repeat what the questions

You can't.talk about it during the tendency of

1.9

If someone20

You21

22

23 were.

24 the Grand Jury.


77


If you did, you could be held in contempt.1 Q.

If you talk about whatof court and go where?2

happens in here?3

I know what that's like. It's nasty down4 A.

there.5

You could end up going to jail.Oh, yeah.6 Q -Okay? Anybody can. Okay? Not just you. So, that's7

it's real important that you not talk about that.8

Did you tell himDobie may ask- you what happened.9

you were coming to testify in the Grand Jury?10

I told him I have to go downYes, I did.11 A.

12 there.7.

:-V He's probably going to ask you what was13 Q.

said inside the grand jury. He'll probably ask you14

If you -- if you repeat those things,what you said.15

you could end up going to jail. Do you understand16

17 that?

I understand that.18 A.

Okay. Okay. Do you have any questions of19 Q.

20 us before we leave?

You know, for the record, you know, I21 A. Yes.

don't know why I still don't, see him.

why there's still feelings there.

I don't know22

I don't know why.23

But I really do feel sorry for the family.24 Because

25 yesterday--

78


Which family?1 Q.

Both families. Because yesterday a year2 A.

We lost ourago we was right there too, you know.3

little niece. So, I really understand. And if he4

did do it, you know, crucify him to the foot.

And I hope he didn't. But who's to

That's5

all, you know.6

I don't know. I'm onlyI wasn't there.7 say.

testifying to what I know.8

You think that you were trying to protect9 Q.

A little bit, when you didn't tell ushim somewhat?10

Because you know what I'm saying,about the times?11

12 don't you?

Yeah,13 I'm--A.liv

14 Because you're smart too.Q.

I'm justYeah, I'm smart. You know.15 A.

16 saying--

And so that's what I'm--17 Q.

-that I'm off on my times.18 A.

Do you thinkListen to what I'm saying.19 Q.

though that you were trying to protect him a little20

bit, didn't you?21

I'm really -- I'm trying to get my22 A. No,

times together. Really I am, you know.23

Because this is the first time that you've24 Q.

come up with those times in the whole time we've25l

79


We've taken statements from you.talked to you.1

We've talked with you.2

I know, but I can't remember. You know.3 A.

Aiid then when I'm talking to people, it don't be just4

It be two. And they all be coming at5 one person.

And you can't listen to everything, you know.

But I want to ask you though, do you think

that you were just trying to protect him a little

6 you.

7 Q•

8

bit?9

10 A. No.

You don't think so?11 Q.

12 A. No.

Okay.13 Q.

- if he did it, he's deserves to14 A. Because I

get whatever is coming to him. Truly.15

Okay. Thank you.

GRAND JUROR: What if you go visit him

16 Q.

17

one time and he tells you, he says, "Look..."18 He

"Yes, I did it." What would youfinally confesses.19

20 do?

THE WITNESS: What would I do? I... 21.

Because I feel like you lied to me whenthink I cry.22

I asked him, "Did youI asked you, "Did you do it?"23

do it? Was you there?"24

GRAND JUROR: Would you go to the25

80


authorities and tell them?1

THE WITNESS: Oh, yes. I would.2

Because when -- Friday, when his baby's mom called my3

house and she told me that the police were looking4

I'm the one that told him to get up. I toldfor him,5

If they putGo see what they want.. him, "Get up.6

your name in this, get up and see what they want.

Don't lay here and let them come kick my door down.

Get up, get out of my house arj,d go see what they

7

8

9

I said, "If you want, I'll go with you."10 want."

GRAND JUROR: Because if you11

implicated in any way, you know them children are12

13 there in that house-

THE WITNESSr Yes.14

-and they're going to

need, you know, some parental guidance in the future.

15 GRAND JUROR:

16

THE WITNESS: I know. And I love my17

I love them with all my heart.18 kids.

I'm so glad to hear you19 GRAND JUROR:

20 say that.

And I'mI love my kids.21 THE WITNESS:

not going to jail for nobody.22

GRAND JUROR:'

Okay.23

You know by working in24 GRAND JUROR:

the home health care, and there's a felony charge25\

81


brung(sic) against yon, you know that's over with.1

THE WITNESS: I know. Everything is2

3 over.

4 You won't be able to goGRAND JUROR:

5 get a decent job anywhere.

6 THE WITNESS: Nowhere. I already

know.7

GRAND JUROR: And it's not worth8

hiding behind no man.9

THE WITNESS: Oh, it's not.10 It's not.

I can always get another man, but I could never get

another life.

11

12

Nor is your children.13 GRAND JUROR:

14 That's why he's constantly asking you if there's

15 anything you want to change before you leave.

THE WITNESS:16 You know, maybe I'm

misunderstanding the question. But I'm trying to17

18 answer the best way I can.

It's so important..19 GRAND JUROR:

20 Because he's not worth it..

THE WITNESS: Okay. No, he's not.21

And I told him. I said, "Dwayne, let me tell you22

If you did this, you need to let them23 something.

You need to tell them everything you know." I24 know.

"If you know anything, you need to tell themsaid,25!ÿ

82


I told him, "I'm not sayingeverything you know.".1

that you know anything, but if you know anything,

tell them everything you know to get yourself in the

2

3

clear."4

Let me say this to you.GRAND JUROR:5

If he had to go back and read off everything that you6

said here this morning—7


GRAND JUROR: . --there would be some9

inconsistence there.10

THE. WITNESS: It probably would.11

From what you said.12 GRAND JUROR

That's what I said, it13 THE WITNESS

14 probably would.

FOREPERSON: Hey, Dan. What are the15

punishments for Perjury and Aggravated Perjury.16

17 MR. DAN RIZZO: It's up to ten years

18 in prison.

FOREPERSON: In prison. Okay.19

20 GRAND JUROR: Oh, no.

You know I'm just -- I'm21 THE WITNESS:

22 just trying to answer all your questions the best of

23 my ability.

24 (BY MR.. DAN RIZZO) Let me -- let me ask youQ.

25 Everybody knows Dobie over at the VA?something.

83


He -- yes they know him.1 Yes.A:

People saw him out there -- I'm not talking2 Q.

I'm not talking about two, and I'mabout one person,3

not telling you what the evidence is and what we4

know.5


People saw him out there at seven o'clock,7 Q-

and -- because they know him.8

9 Yes.A.

They know him.10 Q.

Yes, they do. He grew up down there.11 A.

I'm saying if people saw him out there.12 Q.

And you're testimony is that he was still at home at13

14 7:20; somebody's lying.

But I'm just saying,...15 A.

Q. Several did know.16

How they know? Did they .look at the time?17 A.

18 I'm just telling you what I know. I'm only

19 testifying to what I know.

20 That's what I'm saying.I know.Q.

You know, I can't testify to what they21 A.

know. All I know is when .1 walked out that house, I •22

When I walked out thatdidn't look at a time.23

24 house...

But you're saying that it couldn't have25 Q.

84


been any earlier than 7:20?1

I don't know. 7:20? All I know is when I2 A.

walked out . that house, he was there.3

But I asked you the earliest itI know.4 Q.

could've been when you walked out that house?5

The earliest I would walk out that house--6 A.

The earliest that morning, I'm not asking7 Q.

I'm not trying to get you to change your8 you

I'm j,ust saying if ittestimony if it's true.9

doesn't make sense with every other evidence we10

11 know--

All I know is..."12 A.

GRAND JUROR: Go back to your child13

when you said the first thing you do in the morning

when you take your children down to the bus?

14J

15

Uh-huh.(affirmative)16 THE WITNESS

GRAND JUROR What time is that?17

THE WITNESS: Okay. When I get up in18

And when I get ready19 the morning, it's six o'clock.

to walk out the door, it's 6:45.20 When I look at my

21 clock-ÿ-

GRAND JUROR: Let's go back to that22

was he still in that house then23 That's when6:45.

24 at 6:45?

He was in. the house at25 THE WITNESS:f

85


r

1 6:45.

2 (BY MR. DAN RIZZO) How far is that toQ.

Selinsky?3

From my house to Selinsky? It ain't even4 A.

20 minutes 20 minutes away.5 If you drove up

6 McCowan Road--

GRAND JUROR: Where do you live?7

I live on South Loop8 THE WITNESS:

9 East. Off of the side of the„freeway. It's Plum

10 . Creek Apartments. You know where Gulfgate Mall used

11 to be?

12 So, you live in the PlumGRAND JUROR:

13 Creek Apartment complex?


15 GRAND JUROR: Right there at 45 and

16 610 South?


18 (BY MR. DAN RIZZO) What I'm asking youQ.

though, it's your testimony that it couldn't have19

20 been any earlier than 7:20 when he was there.

21 All I know is when I came downstairs, I

I came back •

A.

22 took my kids to the bus, and came back.

downstairs, I tapped him on his shoulder. I didn't.23

24 look at no time. I can't say what time it was.So,

25 What would be the earliest it could'veQ.l '

86


been?1

I that's the thing. I don't know.2 A.

Well, you know what time you took the kids3 Q.

4 out.

I think I walked themI put the kids out5 A.

6 to the bus at 6:45.

Okay.7 Q.

When I gets back, it's about 7:00.8 Say•A.

like that. Sometimes the lady be late.- When I came9

back through the door, -- I'm going to put.it like10

this, I tapped him--11


13 "Don't be here."A.

It's when you're leaving?14 Q.

It's when I'm leaving.15 A.

I've heard you say that.

I can't put a time on it.

16 0.

17 A. I can't put a

time on it.18

(audio tape runs out and a new one is started)19

20 ~'Q. Okay, thank you.

Thank you for coming in.21 FOREPERSON:

THE WITNESS: Is there anything else22

23 you want to ask me?

(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) There's nothing else I24 Q.

25 need to ask you, unless you want to change anything?i

87


The only thing I can think about is my

times. My times is just off. All I can say is I

1 • A.

2

3 don't look at the clock. When I walk out that door

that morning I was mad at him.4 I walked out that

All I know is I tapped him on the shoulder--5 door.

6 I already heard you say that.Q.

7 And I told him I don't know what time itA.

8 I shouldn't even put a time on it. I shouldwas.

just say I left..9 And I don't,,know what time it was.

You say he was laying on10 GRAND JUROR:

11 the couch?


GRAND JUROR: Dan.13 Can I ask her...

MR. DAN RIZZO:14 Sure.

GRAND JUROR:15 What are you protecting

16 him from?

17 THE WITNESS: Ma'am?

18 GRAND JURORr What are you protecting

19 him from?

20 THE WITNESS: Ma'am, I'm notI,

21 protecting him.

’

22 GRAND JUROR: Because you can't

23 remember the time?

THE WITNESS:24 Even when theyI can't.

25 asked me--

88


GRAND JUROR: But you looked at the1

clock a few times when you were there?2

THE WITNESS: Yeah, I looked at the3

clock to get my kids out on time, on the bus.4

GRAND JUROR: Uh-huh.(affirmative)5

I was on time for theirTHE WITNESS:6

But I'm not protecting him from anything.

I know how serious

bus.7 No,

I wouldn't dare do that.8 ma'am.

And I know I can go ,;to jail for this. Allthis is.9

that's where he was. II know is, when I walked out,10

didn't look at a time.11

GRAND JUROR: Okay.12

.I don't look at times13 THE WITNESS:

for me, but for my kids when they got to get to that

bus, I look at the time.

14

15

What was the rest of16 GRAND JUROR:

17 your family members? You said there was three other

people living in the house.18

19 THE WITNESS: Unarm.'..

I'm just trying to see

--do you know for a fact that was him laying on the

Was he sleeping on the.couch?

20 GRAND JUROR:

21

22 couch?

He slept on the couch23 THE WITNESS:

24 that night.

Did he have a cover over25 GRAND JUROR:C

89


Cover over his body or anything?his head?1

I can't even remember.THE WITNESS:2

That's what I'm asking.3 GRAND JUROR:

When you walked down the stairs and tapped him on the4

shoulder, did he say anything to you?. . 5'

THE WITNESS: No. He didn't say6

anything.7

How do you know it was8 GRAND JUROR:

him? How do you know it couldn't have been one of9

your cousins? Because there's four of you all living10

How do you know it could've been onein that house?11

of your cousins that was laying on that Couch with a12

cover over their head? Fell asleep on the couch.13

14 THE WITNESS: I don't.

GRAND JUROR: Well, how can you come15

in here and tell us you know for a fact it was--16

Because that's where I17 THE WITNESS:

That'sleft him that morning. That's all I can say.18

where I left him when I took the kids to the bus.19

20 GRAND JUROR: No, no, no. I'm not

saying that. I'm saying you know for a fact that's21

22 where he was that night before?


GRAND JUROR: When you woke up that24

morning, you carry your kids to--25r

90


i THE WITNESS: To the bus, yes.1

You see this--the bus.2 GRAND JUROR:

man laying on the couch.3

He was -- he was there.4 THE WITNESS:>

He didn't have a cover- on him.5

GRAND JUROR: Oh. That's what I'm6

He didn't have any cover over him?getting at.7

THE WITNESS: Not when I took the kids8

9 to the bus.

GRAND JUROR:.So, you could see his..10

face and you can identify who this person was laying11

12 on your couch?

-m: 13 THE WITNESS: He rolled over, and he

I asked him -- because I tapped14 looked back at me.

"What you still doing here?"'him that morning.15

16 GRAND JUROR: Okay.

THE WITNESS: And I took the kids to17

18 the bus.

19 GRAND JUROR: Okay. And that was

20 6:45?

THE WITNESS: 6:45, yes.21

GRAND JUROR: Because the bus is out22

23 there at 7:50?

THE WITNESS: No. The bus is out24

25 there at 6:50.

91


GRAND JUROR: 6:50.1

2 THE WITNESS: Yes.

GRAND JUROR: Okay. And then you came3

back in?4

I came back in..5 THE.WITNESS:

GRAND JUROR: And he was still on the6

couch?7

I just ran up the8 THE WITNESS:

9 stairs.

GRAND JUROR: You didn't -- you didn't

check to see was he still on the couch?

10

11

THE WITNESS: I didn't I just ran12y;*\

up the stairs.13

GRAND JUROR: Okay.' So, when you went

upstairs and did what you had to do up there and you

came back down the stairs, was he still on the couch

14

15

16

17 Did you see was he on the couch then?then?

THE WITNESS: I'm going to put it like18

it was somebody on the couch, because I tapped19

them on the shoulder. I hope that was him. It20

It was a figure of him.lookeded(sic) like him.21

GRAND JUROR: Who else was in. the22

23 house?

24 THE WITNESS: It was—Besides yourself and the25 GRAND JUROR:

92

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica. Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

person that was on the couch. Who else was on the1

2 house?

Ruben was there.THE WITNESS:3

Reginald and Terrance was there.Richard was there.4

GRAND JUROR: All right. Out of those5

four people you just called, is any of them his size?6

THE WITNESS: They--7

GRAND JUROR: Any of them come close8

9 to--

THE WITNESS: They his height.10

GRAND JUROR: They his height?11


GRAND JUROR: Where was they sleeping13

14 at? The other four guys?

THE WITNESS: I know Ruben was15

downstairs playing a game.16

So, Ruben was up playing17 GRAND JUROR:

18 a game?

THE WITNESS: Yeah, he was up playing19

20 a game?

GRAND JUROR: Where was the other21

22 three guys?

23 THE WITNESS: Reginald was upstairs

asleep. And Terrance was too, because they never

came back down after me and him got into that .

24

'

25

93

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21 2003

argument that night.1

GRAND JUROR: Yeah, I heard you say2

they ran upstairs.3

THE WITNESS: Yeah, they never came4

back down.5

GRAND JUROR: So, without a doubt > you6

know that he was laying on that couch because you7

tapped him and he turned up and turned around and8

looked at you?9

I'm talking about before10 THE WITNESS:

when I came down, before I got my kids ready?11

GRAND JUROR: Yeah.12

THE WITNESS: I' tapped him and I told

him, "What you still doing here?" And when I left

out the house, I grabbed my car keys and my purse and

I told him, "I don't want you here when I leave." I

• 13

14

15

16

17 hope that was him. That's what I'm saying. It

lookeded(sic) like him.18

GRAND JUROR: Did he say anything to19

20 you?

WITNESS: He didn't say nothing.21

I just walked out the house.22 I didn't look back. I •

23 really didn't want to talk to him.

FOREPERSON: So, what you're saying is24

you can't say for sure that's Alfred under the25

94


1 covers?

2 THE WITNESS: I'can't..-- no, I cannot

All I know is I tapped him. He didn't3 say for sure.

He didn't say nothing to me.say anything.

did was just laid there.

All he4

5

GRAND JUROR: Well, I got a problem6

with that. Because you got somebody laying in your7

house and you don't laying in your house?8

No, I know who's in my9 THE WITNESS:

I know -- what I'm saying is, when I left to10 house.

take the kids to the bus--11

GRAND JUROR: You think that somebody12.

else was on that couch when you came back?13

That's what I'm saying.14 THE WITNESS:

15 He should've been there.

GRAND JUROR:16 . "Should've been there?"

THE WITNESS: He was there when I left17

him.18

But you don't know if he19 GRAND JUROR:

was there when you came back?20

That's what I'm saying.21 THE WITNESS:

He was there -- he was there -- you all confusing me.-22

No, we're not confusing23 GRAND JUROR:

We just want to find out the truth.24 Becauseyou.

what we're here to do is make sure that you are25l

95


Because I don't.telling the truth and helping you.1

want to see you go to jail. You got three kids.2

THE WITNESS: I don't want to see me3

going to jail, either.4l,

FOREPERSON: So, he wasn't on that5

couch when you left, is probably what you want to6

say, right?7

What I'm saying -- I8 THE WITNESS:

don't know what I'm trying to ,say now.9

GRAND JUROR: Well, young lady, I want10

Was he or was he not on that11 you to tell the truth.

couch? Because if that man was on that couch, that's12

If he was not on that couch, that's13 one thing.

Don't cover up for him if he wasn't14- something else.

on that damn couch.15

THE WITNESS: That's the thing, I'm16

not trying to covet up for him.17 I'm not. I'm not

All I know is when I18 trying to cover up for him.

came downstairs, took the kids to school, he was on19

When I ran -- when I came back in the20 the couch.

I don't know what I'm saying.21 • house

GRAND JUROR: Huh?22

THE WITNESS:. I don't know what I'm23

24 saying.

GRAND JUROR: You don't know what25i

96


you're saying?1

THE WITNESS: I'm trying—2

FOREPERSON: We know the first time3

We can pretty well say,you took the kids to school.

"Okay, that could've been him."

get at is when you left that man — that person, that

4

What we're trying to5

6

body on that couch was not Alfred.

THE WITNESS: When I came downstairs--

7

8

FOREPERSON: Aijd you were gone—9

THE WITNESS: The couch is this way--10

FOREPERSON: --the second time.11

--his head, it was this12 THE WITNESS:

That's the way my couch was facing. All I know13 way.

His back is to me.is I tapped him.14 It

lookeded(sic) like Alfred. I hope it was Alfred,15

This is what I'mbecause that's where I left him.16

saying.17

I got another question18 GRAND JUROR:

for you.- Those other three people19 excuse me

there's three other people in that house-.

collaborate that he was in that house?

Could they20

21

THE WITNESS: They was there. I don't22

All I know is when I left that morning...23 know.

(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) Were they in the -- were

they in the first group of four? Where were those

24 Q-

25

97


other three men?1

Ruben was downstairs playing a game.2 Okay.A.

And where was he sitting compared to where3 Q.

the person is on the couch?4

When you walk in my house, it's aOkay.5 A.

There's a chair here andbig couch here.(indicating)

there's a love seat here and my TV is against the

6

7

wall.(indicating) Ruben was sitting in that chair.8

Ruben never left the house, period. He was there9

when I walked, the kids, he was there when I came10

Because he was playing a game.down.11

So, Ruben was in -- Ruben was there the12 Q.

whole time?13

Ruben, basically, yes.

And what about Reginald?

Reginald was upstairs asleep.

14 A.

15 Q.

Reginald was16 A.

upstairs asleep. I seen Ruben when I came down.17

18 Is there anything else you want to sayQ.

19 before you leave?

I wish I wasn't- in this mess.20 A.

FOREPERSON: Well, the whole thing is21

22 you need to tell the truth. That's what we're here

23 That's what you're here for.for.

THE WITNESS: I'm trying to tell the24

25 truth.

98


FOREPERSON: Yes, ma'am. I know1

you're trying to, but we need to — you need to tell2

the truth, not try to tell the truth.3

No, that's what I'mTHE WITNESS:4

I'm tellingI'm telling you what I know.saying.5

When I walked down to leave out,, to gowhat I know.6

to work, he had on the same clothes that he had on7

that night.8

FOREPERSON: You could see his clothes9

when you walked out?10

THE WITNESS:

I seen his tennis shoes.

I could see his clothes.11

12

FOREPERSON: And those were his tennis13

14 shoes for sure?

(moving head up and1.5- THE WITNESS:

16 down)

FOREPERSON: Anybody else have oh a17

shirt like him? Anybody else wear a shirt like him?18-

THE WITNESS: Not that I know of, no.19

When I walked out that house that morning, I tapped20

21 him and I left.

FOREPERSON: You tapped him, "Who?"• 22

THE WITNESS: I tapped Dwayne.23

24 Then you know for sure itFOREPERSON:

was him?25

/

99


THE WITNESS:, He didn't turn over and1

2 look at me, but...

So, you don't know forFOREPERSON:3

sure it was him?4

All I know is he wasTHE WITNESS:5

there when I left... When I -took the kids and when I6

came back.7

What was the name of who8 GRAND JUROR:

played Nintendo —- playing the game? What was that9

. 10 person's name?

THE WITNESS: Ruben.,11

GRAND JUROR: So, Ruben was the one12';'y.

i playing the game?.1.3

THE WITNESS: Yes. Ruben playing the14

15 game. .

Same man playing the

game when you came downstairs, take your kids to the

16 GRAND JUROR:

17

18 bus?

THE WITNESS: Yes..19

Same man playing the. 20 GRAND JUROR:

game. when you come back--21

THE .WITNESS: Yes.22

GRAND JUROR: --and go up the stairs?23

THE WITNESS: Yes.24

Same man playing the -25 GRAND JUROR:

r

\

100


game when you come back down the stairs?1

THE WITNESS: Yes.2

GRAND JUROR: Well, how far was that3

man that was playing the game from the person that

was laying on the couch?

4

5

They ain't that far from6 THE WITNESS:

the chair is here and theeach other. The couch7

couch is here.(indicating) It's right there. It's8

You qan look at each other's9 across from each other.

face.10

GRAND JUROR: Oh, okay. Okay.11

12 I'm not trying to coverTHE WITNESS:

All I know is I don't know my times.13 up for him. My

And I am not trying to cover up fortimes are off.14

15 Dwayne. No, I'm not.’

I cannot be convinced16 GRAND JUROR:

that he did not say one word to you?17

THE WITNESS: That morning?18

GRAND JUROR: That morning. Get out.19

20 I don't want to see you any more. No.

THE WITNESS: He didn't. He didn't21

22 say one word to me.

GRAND JUROR: I don't believe it.23

GRAND JUROR: All he did was roll24

25 over? Looked at you?

101


The first. time when ITHE WITNESS:1

But the second time when Icame down there, yeah.2

came down there, he didn't roll over.3

GRAND JUROR: Okay.4

THE WITNESS: I just walked out the5

house and I left.6

GRAND JUROR: Turn that off. Can she7

8 step out?

9 MR. DAN RIZZO: , Yes.

(witness steps out of the Grand Jury at this time)10

11 (witness reenters grand jury at this time)

FOREPERSON: Okay. Jerry. Are we12

m 13 ready?

For purposes of theMR. DAN RIZZO:14

Miss Dockery, we've taken a fewrecord, we're back.15

minutes break here. And we have the same witness who16

has been testifying previously. And just say your17

full name for the record.18

Erica Jean Dockery.19 THE WITNESS:

MR. DAN RIZZO: Okay. Miss Dockery,20

there's a couple people, a couple members of the21

Grand Jury wanted to say a couple statements before22

23 you left.

THE WITNESS: Okay.24

We just wanted to express25 FOREPERSON:

102


like we were talking earlier, Miss1 our concern

Dockery, when we expressed real concern for your2

children in case there's been — you know there's3

been some testimony here that has not been correct.4

All of us a really concerned about your children.5

And I don't think you have any of us convinced about6

7 I mean all of us feel theI'm sorry.

Some of it is convincing, some of it is

your story.

8 same way.

the truth, but the majority of, it, I don't believe is9

It might be partial to the truth,10 the whole truth.

but you're not telling everything that might have11

12 happened. . We don't care about the times or anything

13 The times might be irrelevant.else. But exactly

14 what happened and what you saw and what transpired

that morning is what's really important.to this15

16 testimony.

17 THE WITNESS: You talking about

Thursday morning?18

19 FOREPERSON: Yes, ma'am. That's why

That's whatwe're really pulling this testimony.20

2.1 we're trying to get to you. Like we said, and if you

are -- the evidence shows that you are perjuring• 22

yourself then you know the kids are going to be taken23

by Child Protective Services, and you're going to the24

25 penitentiary and you won't see your kids for a long

103


time.1

THE WITNESS: I understand.2

FOREPERSON: You understand that very3

much?4

THE WITNESS: Yes.5

FOREPERSON: Okay.6

THE WITNESS: But, I'm trying to7

that week--really remember. Because I got8

FOREPERSON: NQ the time I think is9

But most of all who was the person, orimportant.10

let me word it a different way. We want to know for11

in the housesure, if in fact, Alfred was on12$£-ÿÿÿ

13 before you left to go to work?

THE WITNESS: Was he in the house?14

FOREPERSON: Now, about taking the15

kids to the bus stop, he might have been there then,16

The second time you’left towhatever time that was.17

18 go to work?

The second time I left19 THE WITNESS:

20 to go to work?

FOREPERSON: Yes, ma'am. That's our21

22 concern.

23 I'm trying to remember.THE WITNESS:

Erica,24 GRAND JUROR:

I'm trying to remember.THE WITNESS:25

104

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms., Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

Because I got my days confused.1

GRAND JUROR: I know. Let me just say2

You shouldThat was Thursday morning.this to you.3

be able to remember was somebody there or not there,4

You know who was in your house.in your house.5

Do you know how long ago6 THE WITNESS:

7 that was?

For something of this8 GRAND JUROR:

nature, I would remember.9

It's a lot of things10 THE WITNESS:

that people say you're supposed to remember.11 But I

12 don't.

But if you came down13 GRAND JUROR:

those stairs, young lady--14


16 --to go to work.GRAND JUROR: You

knew that — what was his name, the video boy?17

18 THE WITNESS: Ruben? Yeah.

You knew Ruben was in19 GRAND JUROR:

20 there.

_?1 THE WITNESS: Ruben,—GRAND JUROR: You knew — you kept22

saying all through the testimony that Ruben was still23

24 in there playing that video game.

25 THE WITNESS: Yeah, because I'm useds.

105


to them doing that all the time.1

GRAND JUROR: But you don't2 you

can't tell us if Alfred was on that couch or not.3

Was Alfred on that couch or4. That's what we after.

was he not? You just assumed he was on that couch?5

Did you look over there to see was he on that couch?6

Or did you just come running down those stairs and7

We've given you all the8 went out that door?

opportunities in the world, yo,ung lady. Because you9

10 got three kids.

GRAND JUROR: Well, I don't know about11

you guys, but I've just about heard enough.12

13 THE WITNESS:.I'm --I'm telling you

14 what I—GRAND JUROR:1:5- I agree.

16 GRAND JUROR: I do too.

GRAND JUROR: Me too.17

18 THE WITNESS: I'm telling you—19 And you haven'tGRAND JUROR:

20 convinced any of us.

21 . GRAND JUROR: Erica?

22 THE WITNESS: Sir? I, I, I—23 GRAND JUROR: This is it.

24 THE WITNESS: No. When I—25 You heard them.GRAND JUROR:

106


THE WITNESS: No, when I came down1

when I came down those stairs — I'mthose stairs2

trying to remember. I really am.. Because I have a3

lot going on.4

This is the day you-5 GRAND JUROR:

You're going to have a6 GRAND JUROR:

lot more going on.7

GRAND JUROR: --off early. And surely8

you can remember the day you get off early.9

GRAND JUROR: Erica. It's not worth10

it. It's not worth it. If you're trying to protect11

this young man—12

13 THE WITNESS: I'm—--it's not worth it.14 GRAND JUROR:

THE WITNESS: No, sir. I am not. I15

put this on everything I love. I am not. When I16

walked down them stairs -- can I get up?17

GRAND JUROR: Yeah, get up. Walk18

around. If that's going to help you bring your19

recollection back.20

THE WITNESS: Okay. I came in the21

I went upstairs and gothouse from taking the kids.22

I had my purse and23 dressed. I had my purse already.

Did I tap -- I'm trying to remember24 my keys already.

if I did did I tap him again. I'm trying to25

107


really remember.1

GRAND JUROR: What did you say to2

3 Ruben?

THE WITNESS: Huh?4

What did you say to5 GRAND JUROR:

6 Ruben?

I didn't say nothing to7 THE WITNESS:

8 Ruben.

Ypu didn't say, "Ruben,9 GRAND JUROR:

I'm going?"10

11 THE WITNESS: No.

You just walk right out12 GRAND JUROR:i\

13 the door and didn't say bye or nothing?

14 THE WITNESS: No. I never do.

GRAND JUROR:15 You never do?

16 THE WITNESS: No. They always be

17 playing a game. . I just leave out the house.

18 FOREPERSON: Okay.

What time does -- wait a19 GRAND JUROR:

20 minute what time does what's his name? Alfred

21 gets up in the morning. Is he an early riser,, late

22 riser or what? When he normally there with you?

23 When he normally thereTHE WITNESS:

with me he don't get up until 1:00 in the afternoon.24

25 GRAND JUROR: Goodness.

108


She's not going toGRAND JUROR:1

change.2

FOREPERSON: Okay.3

GRAND JUROR: That's it young lady.4

FOREPERSON: Just remember the same5

thing is you're under oath and everything in here is

You're not to disclose any information

that's been talked about in this Grand Jury to

6

7 secrecy.

8

anybody.9

THE WITNESS: But I'm trying to--10

Not even to Alfred.GRAND JUROR:11

THE WITNESS: I'm just—12

GRAND JUROR: Whatever he may threaten13

you with or not threaten you with, you're forbidden--

THE WITNESS: Is there something you

14

15

16 wanted to ask me?

GRAND JUROR: No, I just want you to17

I hate to see you walk out thatbe truthful with us.18

door and we find out later that you lied to us.19

But I'm just saying,20 THE WITNESS:

when I came — when I came I'm trying to remember.,21

GRAND JUROR: That's all I - want.22

THE WITNESS: Because I was moving23

Because I was really trying tofast that morning.24

I didn't want to be withget him out of my house.25

109

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday', April 21, 2003

him no more.1

Next time it's going to2 GRAND JUROR:

be the cops and the Child Protective Services coming3

to take your children.4

THE WITNESS: I'm trying to really5

I cannot remember.6 remember. I can't I can't

Do you know how much I've been through this last7

weekend?8

GRAND JUROR: I, pretty well know what9

But I want you to know this,-you've been through.10

THE WITNESS: I cannot remember. I11

I can't remember if he was there--12 really can't.

GRAND JUROR: As many investigators

have talked to you the day of, the day after and for

two weeks now, you're bound to remember that

particular morning.

13

14

15

16

I'm really trying.17 THE WITNESS:

Okay. When I Came--18

Let me try and ask you19 MR. DAN RIZZO:

You have said — you have said thatone thing too.20

— and you were very firm — he was there at 8:30.21

You were firm, it was 8:30.22

I was just saying--23 A.

Let me just finish.24 Q.

Go ahead.25 Okay.A.

noGrand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean Dockery

Monday, April 21, 2003.y>._ 0

You were very firm it was 8:30 and he was1 Q.

on the couch and you knew it was him and you were2

You then have gone to now saying thatsure, of that.3

it was maybe 7:20 that it was him, and now, you're

actually saying you're not even sure if it was him or

it was somebody else on the couch, or if there even

4

5

6

So, I mean you've backedwas somebody on the couch.7

off considerably as to what your original statement8

If that's true, that's fine. But all I'm9 was.

telling you is that we're getting ready, you know,

we're getting ready for you to walk out of this Grand

10

11

Jury room, and we just want to know what the truth

And i.f you don't remember, that's fine.

12

is.13 You can5

walk out and you can tell us you don't remember.14 We

don't believe that.15 But—I'm really—16 A.

If you remember what it is17 we're notQ.

The Grand Jury isgoing to play around anymore.18

already upset because it is obvious that you are not19

So, what we want to.do istelling us everything.20

we're just going to ask —I'm just going to ask you21

and you can tell from the Grand Jury's22 once here,

expressions that they done with you.

I'd. be mad too.

23

24 I understand.A.

Okay. Yes, of course. I mean you've25 Q.[

+*ÿ

Ill


obviously — I mean if you were sitting over here

it'd sure look like you were misleading us.

1

2

I understand.3 A.

We understand why you might want to try and4 Q.

protect him5

6 A. No.

Let me finish. But I'm telling you right7 Q.

now you just need to tell whatever the truth is.

I told you outside, just like told all the

witnesses, you're not in trouble unless you lie.

And8

9

10 So,

I'm going to ask -- we're going to

Unless there's something that you

11 this is it now.

12 let you go now.

Iwant us to definitively -- not an "I don't know.13

can't remember." -- what you know definitively that

Not heeing and

14

you want to tell to lis right now.15

And not, you know, going every which way.16 hawing.

If there's something you're going to tell us right17

Otherwise, we're going to have to18 now, that's fine.

19 ask you to excuse yourself.

20 All I know is when I came back down. I'mA.

21 I'm just really trying-sorry, ma'am.

22 So, nothing's changed?0.

23 You're just repeatingGRAND JUROR:

24 I mean either he was there or he wasn't.yourself.

25 That's all you need to say.

112


THE WITNESS: . My days is all mixed up.1

So, you don'tMR. DAN RIZZO:2

remember, right?3

GRAND JUROR: Well, you've given us4

too many details already for it to be mixed up now.5

Let me see if I can help

Let's go back to some

GRAND JUROR:6

you with this particular day

of your, testimony earlier.. You said that you was at

7

8

9 work.

THE WITNESS: When?10

11 GRAND JUROR: On the day —- or that

Thursday. That particular day.12


And he called you--14 GRAND JUROR

THE WITNESS15- Yes.

--at your job?16 GRAND JUROR

THE WITNESS: Yes.17

I think the Assistant DA18 GRAND JUROR

asked you what was the conversation about.19

THE WITNESS: Yes.20

Did it go back over in21 GRAND JUROR:

22 your mind then when he kept telling you it wasn't

him, it wasn't him? That he didn't do it? Did you23

"NOw wait a minute, he couldn't have24 remember -- say,

25 did that because he was at home that morning when I

113

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica.Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

1 • left."

I was like ITHE WITNESS: I was2

did. I'm like, "He was supposed to have been."3

Supposed to have been.4 GRAND JUROR:

THE WITNESS: Yeah. I'm like,5 I

was really -- I was trying to really remember.6

GRAND JUROR: Has anyone asked you to7

not to -- anyone asked you to give him an alibi?8

THE WITNESS: No, sir.9

10 GRAND JUROR: No one never came to you

1.1 and asked you to say--

FOREPERSON: Okay. I think we've12

heard enough, Daniel. That's enough. Thank you for13

coming in, ma'am.14

THE WITNESS: But I'd like to say one15

When I walked out that house,16 thing before I leave.

I can't recall. .1 can't17 I don'tI don't

I'm.trying my best to18 I can't remember.recollect.

19 remember.

20 All we wanted was aGRAND JUROR:

Was he or was he not in that house21 "Yes," or, "No."

when you left the last time?22 "Yes," or, "No?"

Think about your kids.23 GRAND JUROR:

24 GRAND JUROR: Think about it. "Yes, "

25 or, "No."

114


I'm trying-- I'm tryingTHE WITNESS:1

I don't thinkto really think. Because I got my2

I don't--I don't think he3 he

GRAND JUROR: All right, "Yes," or,4

5 "No.

THE WITNESS: No, no, no.6

FOREPERSON: He was not in the house?7

THE WITNESS: No.8

FOREPERSON: Olÿay.9

One minute., Erica.10 GRAND JUROR: He

wasn't in the house when you put your kids on the bus11

12 either, was?

I'm trying to remember.13 THE WITNESS:

GRAND JUROR.: Think about your kids,14

darling.15

I'm trying to remember.16 THE WITNESS:

17 FOREPERSON: That's what we're

concerned about here, is your kids.18

He was not at the19 GRAND JUROR:

20 house--

We're as much concerned21 FOREPERSON:

So, tell the truth.22 about your kids as you are.

23 He was not in the houseGRAND JUROR:

Tell the24 when you put your kids on. the bus, was he?

25 truth, girl.

115


Yes, he was there.1 THE WITNESS

GRAND JUROR: Okay.2

Yes, because—3 THE WITNESS

GRAND JUROR: Okay.4

5 THE WITNESS No, no, no. I'm gunna

6 tell, you--

GRAND JUROR: No, you answered. You7

8 answered my question.

Ij'm going to tell you9 THE WITNESS:

why I know he was on the couch.

GRAND JUROR:

10

I don't care.11 You

answered the question.12

13 THE WITNESS: Okay.

GRAND JUROR:. Your answer is,14 "No,

that he was not in the when you got ready to go to15

16 work?" That is your answer?

17 THE ' WITNESS: I don't I don't -- I

don't think he was.18 I don't — I don't think.

19 GRAND JUROR: We can't—20 THE WITNESS: No, no. He wasn't

21 there.

22 GRAND JUROR: Thank you.

23 THE WITNESS He wasn't. No.

24 GRAND JUROR: Okay. All right.

25 Did you see him thatGRAND JUROR

116


morning at all?1

THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. I did.2

GRAND JUROR: Okay.3

THE WITNESS: I'm just trying to4

5 remember. I can't I can't--

I don't want any of6 GRAND JUROR: No.

I mean, either you did see himyour explanations.7

that morning or you didn't.8

THE WITNESS: Yes, I saw him that9

morning.10

GRAND JUROR: Okay. But he was not11

12 there when you left for work?

THE WITNESS: I don't13 I can't--

GRAND JUROR: Now, you already--14

THE WITNESS: I'm going to just say15

16 "No," because I can't remember. "No." Because I

17 can't remember.

I mean, if you can't18 MR. DAN RIZZO:

19 remember, you can't remember.

20 .GRAND JUROR: Yeah.

MR. DAN RIZZO: You can't just say21,

. 22 “No," because you can't remember.

GRAND JUROR:. You just can't23

24 arbitrarily say, "No."

I'm just saying -- I25 THE WITNESS:

117


can't -- I can't remember. So, I'm going to just say1

I can't.go wrong with "No."2 "No."

GRAND JUROR: Yes, you can3

MR. DAN RIZZO: All right. Let me ask4

Did you — did you — you canyou one other thing.5

go wrong just—6

GRAND JUROR: Yeah..7

(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) --making something up.8 Q.

- I can't -- I can't remember.

I've been through so much this

That's what9 A.

10 I really can't.

11 weekend.

Let me ask you something else.All right.12 Q.

Did you give -- are you going to change your

s-tatement in any way as to whether or not Dobie has

13

14

admitted being there? And I can't go into what we15

know about what he said to you or not, but I'm16

telling you right now, I'm just going to ask you—17

Am I going to change my statement?18 A.

19 Is there any: change in your statement—Q.

20 In my statement—A.

-whether or not Dobie has admitted to you21 Q. ,

22 to being at the scene of the robbery? "Yes," or,

23 "No?"

24 Has he ever -- did he admit to me no, heA.

never admitted -- when I asked him firmly, I said,25

118


This is--""Dwayne, this is life or death.1

Okay.’

He said, "No?"2 Q.

He told me, "No, I wasn't there." That's3 A.

4 I asked him--what he told me.

He's always stated that?5 Q.

"No."He always stayed with,6 A.

All right. Okay.7 Q•

8 FOREPERSON: Okay.

If you justMR. DAN RIZZO: , Okay..9

have a seat outside, we may recall you.1.0}

11

(witness exits grand jury room at this time)

(witness recalled before the Grand Jury)

12

(s 13in-

14

15 FOREPERSON: Let us know when you're

16 ready?

THE WITNESS: . Do I just—17

18 Hold up a second.COURT REPORTER:

FOREPERSON: Just a minute.19

20 FOREPERSON: Okay?

21 COURT REPORTER: Okay.

22 (BY MR. DAN RIZZO) For purposes of theQ•

record, we're back in the Grand Jury.23 Could you

24 state your name, please?

25 Erica Jean Dockery.A.r

119

Grand Jury Testimony o.f Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

And. Miss Dockery, you're the same person1 Q.

whose testified here earlier today?2

3 Yes.A.

While we were excusing you for the day,4 Q-

after all the other witnesses have testified, you

stopped me in the hall and said that you needed to

5

6

tell me something?7

It was an indiscretion on my part. I8 Yes.A.

But I didn't wantwant to apologize to everybody.

Alfred's family to know that--

9

10

Let me just stop you for a second too.11 Q.

Go ahead.12 A.

Did you say something that was not true to13 Q.

the Grand Jury that you want, to correct now?

I ain't going to say it wasn't true,

14

15 ItA.

it's just that I want to correct it.16

Well, either -- did you say something17 Q.

earlier this morning that was not true?18

Everything I said was true, I just want to19 A.

correct some statements that I had made.

Which statements?

20

21 Okay.Q.

The statement is, "When I left out my22 A.

house, at 6:45>23 I—That would've been Thursday morning?24 Q.

25 Thursday morning.A.

120


The morning of the shooting?1 Q.

I left out the house at. 6:50. I2 Yes.A.

I never returned home.3 Because Inever returned.

was leaving Alfred, going back to my kid's father.4

You said in your written statementOkay.5 Q.

though, that you actually left the house at 8:30?6

Uh-huh,(affirmative)7 A.

8 Is that true or not true?Q.

X, just gave them thatA. . That's the time

10 time.

Let me ask you again. You have to11 Q.

listen to my question--12

r-'13 Uh-huh.(affirmative)A.

-and answer my question. Was it true or14 Q.

not true that it was 8:30 when you left?15

16 No.A.

17 True‘ or not true?Q.

No, it wasn't true.A.

In the Grand Jury, you said -- you19 Okay.Q.

20 testified initially that it was actually 8:30, and

21 then you said, "It could've been as early as 7:20."

22 That would've beenI'm sorry, "--as early, 7:20."

23 the earliest that you would've left the house. Is

24 that, true or not true?

.25 No, not all the time that I leave.A.

121


Sometimes--1

I'm talking about Thursday morning?2 Q.

Thursday morning?3 A.

Was that true or not true that you left at4 Q-

7:20?5 .

I didn't leave at 7:20.6 A No,

7 Was that statements true or not true?Q

8 It was not true.A

9 Okay.Q

If I'm coming back in here.10 A

and I know you're coming in to correct11 Q Yes,

this.12


14 we have to be real clear forQ. But I want

the record.15

16 Okay.A.

The other statement that you made that you17 Q-

came back to the house that day, the Thursday, after18

you worked in the morning, and that you went and took19

20 a nap with Dobie--


Was that statement true and correct?22 Q-

23 Yes, that's true.A.

24 On Thursday you went back to the house?Q.

25 That is me.A.!

122


Okay. How about--1 Q.

When I got off of work.2 A.

How about that afternoon?3 Q.

That is that afternoon.4 A.

What time did you get back?5 Q.

When I got off of work at one o'clock--6 A.

Okay.7 £?.

--I left the lady's house about 1:00. I8 A.

I never „left the house againget home about 1:30.9

until I went to work at four o'clock to Subway.10 .

So, you did -- so the only thing

that wasn't true is you driving to work and the time?

That morning.

11 Okay.Q.

12

In that morning, yes.13 A.

And that you actually left at 6:50?14 Okay.Q.

6:50. I dropped the kids off.15 A.

How do you know it was 6:50?16 0-

Huh? I looked at the clock. I was17 A.

supposed to have met my kids -- my little girl's18

19 father.

20 Who was that?Q.

A. . The last little girl's father.21

22 Who was that?Q.

23 Carl Pickett.A.

Q.24 Carl Pickett?


123


And where does Carl Pickett live?1 Q.

He live way in Alief. I was supposed to--2 A.

Where at?3 Q.

I don't--4 A.

5 What's his phone number?Q.

His phone number? I got a cell number.6 A.

7 What is his cell phone?Q.

It's (281) -- I'm trying to think. (281)228 A.

(281)772-2833. That's sthe number.9 no,

10 Are you sure?Q.

11 Yes.A.

And he lives in where?12 Q.

€ÿ-

%

Alief.13 A.

And you were --where were you supposed to14 Q.

meet him?15

We just supposed to have met up together16 A.

I never met him.and just talked. But I17 I .

just...went on.18

Why were you going to meet him and talk?

A. We were supposed to be getting back

19 Q.

20

21 together.

So, you were dumping Dobie?22 Okay.Q.

23 A. Yes.

And you were getting back with him?24 Q.

25 Yes.A.

124


Are you guys talking now? Are you back1 Q.

with him?2

He don't want to be involved with me3 No.A.

because of what's going on.4

5 Okay.£?.

(Grand Jurors laughing)6

GRAND JUROR: I wonder why?7

(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) So,8 Q. so,, were you

supposed to meet him that morrÿing with the kids?9

10 No.A.

You were supposed to meet him that day?Q.11

I was just supposed to have just met him,12 A.

13 and we would just fool around.

14 Oh.Q.

15 I didn't want to say it.A.

When were you supposed to meet him and fool16 Q.

around?17

After I dropped the kids offThat morning.18 A.

to school.19

You were supposed to -- so then you

were going -- you were going to drop the kids off —I thought you had to go; to work?

I was going to call in.

20 Okay.Q.

21

22

23 A.

24 Okay. What happened?Q-

I just couldn't do it.25 A.

I

125


You couldn't do it or he just wouldn't meet1 . Q.

2 you?

I just -- I couldn't do it. ,1 just3 A. No,

4 went on.

Don't be giving me...you know. Because5 Q.

we're going to check on this.6

Go ahead.' That's fine.7 A.

So, you called it off?8 Q

I didn't even call him, back.

supposed to have called the house for me that

9 He wasA.

10

But I didn't even stay long enough to evenmorning.11

get the phone Call.12

How do you know that?13 Q.

Huh?14 A.

How do you know he called?15 Q.

I said he wasI didn't say he called.16 A.

17 supposed to.

What time was he supposed to?18 Okay.Q•

He supposed to have called me around --19 A.

i

Because I told him I was going to walk20 around 7:00.

the kids to the bus.21

22 Okay.Q-

But, in fact, I didn't walk them, I just23 A.

went on and took them.24

25 Why?Q.

126


Why I took them? I don't know. I just1 A.

wanted to take them in the morning.2

So, you're sure it was 6:50?3 Q.

4 Yes.A.

Why are you sure?5 Q.

Because they got to be in there for6 A.

breakfast and be in.line for about 7:15 or they can't7

8 eat.

And what school is that?

Brookline Elementary.

9 Q.

10 A.

And where is that located?11 Q.

Five minutes away from the house.12 A.

Okay. So, you actually go them there by13 Q.

14 6:50?

No, I left out the house at 6:50.By 6:50?15 A.

They get to school at 6:55? So, they were16 Q.

late?17

I left out the house at 6:50.18 A. No, no.

19 Okay.0.

They have . to be to breakfast by 7:15.20 A.

How do you know it was 6:50, is what21 Okay.Q.

I'm saying?22

I walk -- when you get in your car and you23 A.

turn on your radio they tell you the time.

Who tells you the time?

24

25 Q.

128


Okay.1 A.

So, then you -- did you know he was going2 Q.

to go out and do some jackings that morning?3

God, no.4 A.

Let me ask you this. We need to know this5 Q.

Did he -- he has called you at your house?6 too.

7 Yes.A.

He -- you did -- you have received phone8 Q.

You told us that you don't get any phone9 calls.

10 calls.

not collect. Like three-way,11 I can'tA.

12 yes.

That's the only way you can get them?13 Q.

He cannot call me14 That's the only way.

because AT&T or MCI has a block on my phone.

A.

15 I can't

Even when I was in jail this16 receive collect at all.

weekend, for my traffic warrants--17

Oh, you were in jail this weekend?18 Q. .

That's why I said I haven't been19 Yes, sir.A.

20 I'm tired.to sleep.

How much time you do in jail?21 Q-

22 Three days.A.

23 Why three days?Q.

24 They ummm...

Because you were paying -- it seems like

A.

25 Q.;

130


And. then where did you go?1 Q.

I was supposed to have met my kid's father,2 A:

but I didn't wait on—3

To fool around.4 Q.

— I didn't wait on his phone call.5 A.

I know you were supposed to meet him6 Okay.Q.

to fool around, but where did you go?7 Because you

didn't have to get to work until 9:00.8

A. I just went and ate9 " I

10 Where?Q.

11 At IHOP.A.

12 Which IHOP?Q.

Where is that IHOP at?13 A.

14 I mean how many IHOP's do you eat at?Q.

It's a lot.15 A.

GRAND JUROR:16 How far you -- how far

away from the school to the IHOP?

off, then you went to IHOP, right?

You drop the kids17

18

THE WITNESS:19 Yeah, but I didn't go to

20 the one by my house. There's one right on the

21 corner—

22 GRAND JUROR: I know. That's what I

23 So, you didn't go to that one?was getting at.

THE WITNESS: No.24

25 GRAND JUROR: Which direction did you

V-'’

131


1 go to go eat?

I went and jumped on theTHE WITNESS:2

And that's northfreeway like I was going to work.3

4 59.

GRAND JUROR: Okay.5

THE WITNESS: C1eve1and.6

Where Miss Berry --7 GRAND JUROR:

where Miss Berry live?8

THE WITNESS: She live off of9

Homestead and Harwin.10

GRAND JUROR: Okay. And the only IHOP11

they got between downtown is Humble.12

THE WITNESS: No, there's one13

somewhere else.14

GRAND JUROR: Not on 59? Not from15

16 That's my area, that's, the reason I1-10 to Humble.

Not on 59.know there's not one.over there.17

There's one on18 GRAND JUROR:

Westheimer by Bubbles.19

GRAND JUROR:. You get to Humble, there.20

is.21

22 THE WITNESS: No, not I didn't go

23 that way like I'm going to work.

MR. DAN RIZZO: You know, you're lying2.4

again, aren't you?25

132


THE WITNESS: No, I'm not.1

FOREPERSON: You were doing good when2

you came back in here now.3

THE WITNESS: No, I'm not. I'm4

trying--5

FOREPERSON: We don't want to start6

all over again on this.7

THE WITNESS:8 I can't I can't

9 remember what IHOP--

MR.'' DAN RIZZO: I don't I don't10

know why we even talked to you.11

THE WITNESS: No, I'm serious. I12

I don't know where the IHOPdidn't I did not13

I don't know that side ofis.14 I can't remember

15 town i

FOREPERSON: Ma'am, let me tell you16

We've been here sincewhat, we've been here all day.17

nine o'clock this morning.18

I'm trying--19 THE WITNESS:

FOREPERSON: And everybody's tired,

and they've got family members at home waiting for

them and everything else. So,, you know, if you're

wasting our time we don't need to talk to you

20

21

22

23

We need to go on with our business and get24 anymore.

25 out of here.

133

Grand. Jury Testimony of Ms. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

THE WITNESS: No, I'm not.1

FOREPERSON: Okay.2

THE WITNESS: That's why I came here3

to retract what I said.4

FOREPERSON: Well, we appreciate that5

But now we need to get on with thetoo, very much.6

truth from here on out.7

I'm trying -- I'm trying8 THE WITNESS:

— I'm trying to remember.9

FOREPERSON: Okay.10

THE WITNESS: I'm trying to remember.11

I just jumped on the freeway like I was going to12

m I work 59/Cleveland, but I didn't go to that13 work.

14 IHOP.

GRAND JUROR: Okay. I know where15

you're talking about. Fifty-nine.16

THE WITNESS: Yeah, but—17

GRAND JUROR: I know it.18

--I'm saying I didn't go19 THE WITNESS:

20 to that IHOP.

GRAND JUROR: What exit do you take21

off of 59 to get to Miss Berry's house?22

THE WITNESS: I know. I didn't23 I.

didn't go that way though.24

GRAND JUROR: Okay.25

134


THE WITNESS: I didn't go that way.1

As you go underneath2 GRAND JUROR:

3 the--

Did you go meet your4 MR. DAN RIZZO:

Is that what happened?ex-husband?5

No, I didn't meet him.

What is it that you don't want to tell us?

I didn't meet him.6 A.

7 Q.

8 A. It'S—There's something.9 Q.

I'm just saying, I didn'tIt's nothing.10 A.

. meet him. I just went on the freeway -- you know how

you go 59 to the southwest side? You know that IHOP

11

12

that's off of Hooter's and all of that?13 It's IHOP

right there.14

But that's the opposite15 GRAND JUROR:

direction from your job?16

But I didn't have to be17 THE WITNESS:

18 to work until 9:00.

19 Okay, so you're at 59GRAND JUROR:.

20 South then?

THE WITNESS:21 Yeah, I went to 59--

Going towards the22 GRAND JUROR:

Summit?23

THE WITNESS:24 Yes.

FOREPERSON: There's an IHOP right251

135


over there by that?1

THE WITNESS: Yes, that's the IHOP I2

3 I don't have to be to work until 9:00.went, to.

GRAND JUROR: Okay. Okay.4

GRAND JUROR: Would your kids tells if5

Dobie was in the car when you left the house that6

morning?7

THE WITNESS: What? My kids?

GRAND JUROR: Uh-huh.(affirmative)

8

9

10 THE WITNESS: Sure.

That he was in the car11 GRAND JUROR:

with you when you left the house.12

No! He was in the car13 THE WITNESS:

with me.14

Your kids would say he15 GRAND JUROR:

wasn't in the car?16

Yeah, I teach them to17 THE WITNESS:

tell the truth.18

19 Okay.GRAND JUROR-:

20 . GRAND JUROR: Hummph!

21 Well, who else—GRAND JUROR:

Unlike their mother.THE WITNESS:22

23 Yeah, I'm wrong.

24 You're what?GRAND JUROR:

I'm just saying, I'mTHE WITNESS:25

136

Grand Jury Testimony of Ms'. Erica Jean DockeryMonday, April 21, 2003

I'm wrong for—1 wrong, I'm wrong.

(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) Why did you lie to us?2 Q-

3 Because I—A.

I want the truth on this. andDon't4 Q.

think before you answer.5

Why?6 A.

I want the honest truth. Why did'Yeah.7 Q.

I want the truth.you lie to us?8

Because I didn't want his mom and his

sister and his -- his -- I didn't want his people to

9 A.

10

know. Because they won't—11

His people to know what?12 Q.

1.3 That-A.

That you cheating on14 GRAND JUROR:

him?15

THE WITNESS: Yeah. Basically.16

GRAND JUROR: You see that man right17

Babe, before we leave here, and once we18 there?

adjourn, that man sitting right there is the foreman,19

is going to sign off on the paperwork -- you know

what's going to happen because you lied to us.

Them's probably

20\

You21

think you spent three days in jail.

the three roughest nights you had away from your

It's going to be a lot longer than that if he

sign off on the paperwork.

22

23

kids.24

25 And he just told you, we

137


We been here sinceall tired and ready to go home.1

nine o'clock this morning.2

THE WITNESS: I haven't been to sleep3

in four days.4

GRAND JUROR: But you did something5

wrong and we didn't.6

THE WITNESS: I apologize. I really7

I am really—8 am.

MR. DAN RIZZO: What else what else9

have you lied to us about? We know you did it.10

About — what you mean?

We want to know what else you lied to us

1.1 A.

12 Q.

13 about?

14 That's—A.

Did Dobie admit to doing this?15 Q.

Did he admit it to me?16 A.

Did he admit it?17 Q.

A. "Did he do it?" 'When I asked Dwayne,18 No.

He never did.He never admitted to me.19

You've been talking to him off and on for a20 Q.

while-21

I've been talking to him and I tell him22 A.

over ' and over—23

24 He knew you were going toListen to me.Q.

25 the Grand .Jury also?

138


Yes, he did.1 A.

"what has he admittedSo, I'm asking you2 Q.

3 to you?"

The only thing--4 A.

And give me the truth.5 Q.

The only thing that Dwayne has admitted to6 A.

7 me is about was

We need the truth.8 Q.

When I went seeing Dwayne

Look, this is

9 I'm telling you.A.

this isyesterday, I said, "Dwayne.

serious.. I could loose my kids."

10

I said, "Tell me11

something?" He was like, "Erica, I'm going to tell

you this. After you left that morning, I left." I

12/G.-;

13

But all this time you was telling14 said, "You left?

me you was at home." I said, "Where did you go?" He15

The VillaI was in VA.16 told me, "I was

Americana." I said, "Where were you over there?" He17

I said, "Hanging outsaid, "I was just hanging out."18

And he was -- you know, he was finishing,19 where?"

Then they called him and told20 trying to tell me.

21 "Time up."

What else -- and what else did he tell you?22 Q.

I couldn't finish the23 That was it.A.

They told me, "Time's up.24 conversation. You gotta

25 You gotta come on out of there."leave.f

139


He's called you since then?1 Q.

He called me—2 A.

Yes, he has. •3 Q.

--at my sister's house last night.4 A.

Yes, he did.5 2-

Uh-huh.(affirmative) But he didn't — we .6 A.

didn't talk about that.7

Listen, Miss Dockery. We know the calls8 Q.

And we're realty -- we're really tiredthat came in.9

of it. Now, if you want -- if you want to come10

clean, tell us everything he said.11

I'm telling -— we didn't even talk about12 A.

Because he started crying on the phone.13 that. Wev

I'm telling you,didn't even talk about it at all.14

15 that is the truth.

You weren't curious at all what he did when16 Q.

he left and went to the VA?17

I didn't want him to really talk over the18 A.

I told him I didn't want to talk about, it.19 Iphone.

"It's better if Iwanted him to tell me in person.

see you in person and to see -- and it's easier for

20 .

21

22 you to tell me--"

Did you ask him if he killed those people?-23 Q.

Did I ever ask him that?24 A.

25 Did you ask,yesterday, if he killed thoseQ.

140


1 people?

I didn't ask him that.No, I didn't.2 A.

since he started admitting at3 HaveQ.

least, you know, going to the VA--4


--did he say he was going there to do a6 Q.

"jacking?"7

8 No.A.

What did he say he wjent there for?

He said — what did he say he went there --

9 Q.

10 A.

"He went there to hang out." That's what hehe say,11

told me.12

is that is that allThat's what13 Q.

you're going to tell us? •14

That is the truth.That's what he told me.15 A.

But you've told us over and16 Well, I know.Q.

And we find outover and over, "this is the truth."17

it's nothing but a lie. After we.confronted you--18

19 FOREPERSON: Let me just tell you

something, like we said earlier,

If you're scared about somebody else finding

out about this — the only way they're going to find

it's a secret in20

here.21

22

23 out is by you, and if you do that, you're breaking

You're going against the law.

these people in this Grand Jury is going to tell

None of24 the law.

25

• t

141


TheThe DA's not going to tell anybody.anybody.1

detective is not going to tell anybody. The court2

reporter is not going to tell anybody.

finds out out there what happened in this Grand Jury

room, and the answers you gave, it's because of you.

If somebody3

4

5

And if that's — and if that's the case, then you6

broke the law.7

THE WITNESS: I'm not--8

So, obviously, there's

not going to be anything going outside this room

about whatever you say in this room.

scared about somebody, about what you're testifying

9 FOREPERSON:

10

And if you're• 11

12

You understand that?to, it's not going to happen.13

14 'THE WITNESS: Yes.

FOREPERSON: So, just tell the truth15

16 so we can go home. Because we've got one more case,

and everybody's tired, and we need to get out of17

18 here'.

(19 THE WITNESS: I--

FOREPERSON: So, tell the truth from20

You can go home.21 here, so we. can release you.

You're tired. You haven't slept. You need to go22

23 home and go to sleep too.


GRAND JUROR: And if you think he's a25

142


threat to you, if and when he get out, that's what1

So, there's nothey're here for.. To protect you.2

reason for you not to come out and confess and tell3

You did came in here and told us threethe truth.4

And now you come back to.tell us thedifferent lies.5

We don't know if you telling. the truth now or.

if you lying again.

6 truth.

7

THE WITNESS: I'm not—8

What --.what do you

You told us first one thing,

9 GRAND JUROR:

expect us to believe.10

And every time youthen you told us another thing.11

there's something you wanted togot to that door,12

And then you got in the hallway and you13 tell us.

wanted to confess and come back in here.. And now you

remember all of a sudden that you left there at seven

14

15

6:50- that morning -- and you didn't come16 o'clock

back. And he asked you that, question.

THE WITNESS: Yeah. And the reason

17

18

why I didn't want to tell, is because I didn't want

his people to find out.

19

That's the only reason.20

You know what21 MR. DAN RIZZO:

FOREPERSON: They're not going to find22

That's what I was trying'to explain to you.23 out.

THE WITNESS: Okay.24

(BY MR. DAN RIZZO) I don't really think25 Q.

143


Because I don't think you reallythat you're afraid.1

I think -- what I think it is is Ido get afraid.2

think that you're up to your neck involved in this3

And I'll tell you why. Because we know that4 deal.

you made a phone call to Shawn at 10:00 I'm sorry,5

to Ghetto -- at 10:30 approximately. Don't look at6

me like that--7

No, no. I'm just—--because I'll end it right here.

Go ahead.

8 A.

9 Q.

10 A.

I'm going to give you a chance to explain11 Q-

But you made a phone call to Ghetto.why you did it.

So, you knew at 10:30 on that Thursday morning, that

12

13

Ghetto and Shawn and Dobie were together.14 You knew

that because you called Ghetto. You called his cell15

And we know that because we can prove that,16 phone.

17 okay?

18 I never called--A.

Yeah, you did. And we can prove that. And19 Q.

if you're going — Iso I'm just going to ask you,20

really would actually like you to answer that21

Did you "yes," or did you "no," callquestion.2.2

Ghetto's -- and I'm going to use his full name —23

Did you ask -- did you call Elijah24 Elijah Joubert.

Joubert, that would be April 3rd -- Thursday, April25

144


3rd at approximately 10:26? Did you call his cell1

phone? From Miss Berry's house?2

From Miss Berry's house?3

Just answer the question.4, "Yes," or, "No?"Q.

5 "Yes," or, "No."

6 No.A.

If you didn't--7 Q.

GRAND JUROR: Bingo.8

MR. DAN RIZZO: I don't think I have9

any more questions to ask her.10

FOREPERSON: I don't either.11

THE WITNESS: I never called12 I

-:- 13 never called--

Girl, you just a big14 GRAND JUROR:

mistake.15

16 how--THE WITNESS: How

17 GRAND JUROR: And when you talk to

18 what's his name?

19 You know the part aboutGRAND JUROR:

the attorney business--20

' 21- --the guy on the phone,GRAND JUROR:

22 you tell him what all you did today.

GRAND JUROR: Ma'am? Ma'am? Hold on.

You know the part about the attorney business that we

read you in the beginning?

23

24

25

145



You better go get youGRAND JUROR:2

3 one.

that's what I'mTHE WITNESS: But I4

saying, I never, talked to Ghetto that day.5 I never

talked to any of.them.6

7 GRAND JUROR: Well, it's over, ma'am.

MR. DAN RIZZO: We're done.8

GRAND JUROR: We got--9

I think she was with him10 GRAND JUROR:

at the check Cashing place.11

*ÿ*ÿ**ÿ **12

13

. 14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

146


1 STATE OF TEXAS

2 COUNTY OF HARRIS

3

4

I, DANIEL J. RAVELING, a Court Reporter and5

6 Notary Public in and for the County of Harris, State

of Texas, do hereby certify that the foregoing

145 pages of typewritten manuscript constitute a true

and accurate record of the proceedings had and

testimony adduced upon the appearance, of the witness,

7

8

9

10

MS. ERICA JEAN DOCKERY, before the 208th District11

Court Grand Jury of Harris County, Texas, on the

21st day of April, 2003.

12•' "

13v .iV

14

GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL OF OFFICE on this15

16 tbe 22nd day of July, 2003.

17

18

19 DANIEL J. RAVELING, COURT REPORTER

20 AND NOTARY PUBLIC IN HARRIS COUNTY

STATE OF TEXAS21

22

23 My commission expires:

24 September 8, 2006

25

;

1 Grand Jury Testimony of 21, 2003

Documents

Transcript of 1 Grand Jury Testimony of 21, 2003