1. 2 Romans 12: 1,2 NRSV I appeal to you, therefore, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to...

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Romans 12: 1,2 NRSVRomans 12: 1,2 NRSV

I appeal to you, therefore, brothers and I appeal to you, therefore, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual acceptable to God, which is your spiritual act of worship.act of worship.

Do not be conformed to this world, but Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your be transformed by the renewing of your minds, so that you may be able to minds, so that you may be able to discern what is the will of God discern what is the will of God −− what is what is good and acceptable and perfect. good and acceptable and perfect.

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I a__ to you, therefore, brothers and I a__ to you, therefore, brothers and sisters, by __________________, to present sisters, by __________________, to present your _____, as a ____ ____, holy and ____to your _____, as a ____ ____, holy and ____to God, which is your ________________________.God, which is your ________________________.

Do not be __________________, but be____ by Do not be __________________, but be____ by the ____________,so that you may be able the ____________,so that you may be able to discern w___ i_ to discern w___ i_

t_ w__ of G__, what is good and ____ and t_ w__ of G__, what is good and ____ and ____. ____.

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I appeal to you, therefore, brothers and I appeal to you, therefore, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual acceptable to God, which is your spiritual act of worship.act of worship.

Do not be conformed to this world, but Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your be transformed by the renewing of your minds, so that you may be able to minds, so that you may be able to discern what is the will of God discern what is the will of God −− what is what is good and acceptable and perfect. good and acceptable and perfect.

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9 Issues in TNW

ch 13

9 Issues in TNW

ch 13

Dr. Barry Liesch Biola University La Mirada, CaliforniaDr. Barry Liesch Biola University La Mirada, California

© 2008 Barry Liesch© 2008 Barry Liesch

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Fundamental changesFundamental changes

Holy Spirit outpoured in power!Holy Spirit outpoured in power! Miraculous events, healingsMiraculous events, healings Gospel extended to Gentiles/WorldGospel extended to Gentiles/World Hebrew/Gentile tensions surfaceHebrew/Gentile tensions surface Clash of culturesClash of cultures

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Principle for

Effective Leadership Principle for

Effective Leadership

Know your people!Know your people! Their history, worship cultureTheir history, worship culture

NT devotes much space to cultureNT devotes much space to culture Worship requires contextualization! Worship requires contextualization! Major NT problemMajor NT problem

Gentiles ignorant of OT worshipGentiles ignorant of OT worship Jews resistant to changeJews resistant to change

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Paul: Shaper of ChangePaul: Shaper of Change

Point man for Jewish-Gentile Point man for Jewish-Gentile relationsrelations

Answers questions, provides adviceAnswers questions, provides advice Are his principles valid today?Are his principles valid today? Can they relate to today’s issues?Can they relate to today’s issues?

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The Early Church:The Early Church:

JewishJewish shapers of changeshapers of change

Peter: God shows no favoritismPeter: God shows no favoritism

James:James:

Barnabus:Barnabus:

Paul:Paul:

Examples:

UniversalUniversal

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The Early Church:The Early Church:

JewishJewish shapers of changeshapers of change

Peter: God shows no favoritismPeter: God shows no favoritism

James: we should not burden youJames: we should not burden you

Barnabus:Barnabus:

Paul:Paul:

Examples:

UniversalUniversal

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Let’s look at

Nine Issues

Let’s look at

Nine Issues

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Issue #1

Circumcision

Issue #1

Circumcision

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Jerusalem Council: A New Cultural TestJerusalem Council: A New Cultural Test

JewishBelievers

GentileBelievers

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Jerusalem Council: A New Cultural TestJerusalem Council: A New Cultural Test

JewishBelievers

GentileBelievers

circumcisionfor salvation

no circumcisionfor salvation

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Circumcision in OTCircumcision in OT Mandatory command from GodMandatory command from God

Abraham circumcises family, slavesAbraham circumcises family, slaves God marking/setting apartGod marking/setting apart

““You are mine”You are mine” Circumcision of the heart (metaphor)Circumcision of the heart (metaphor)

““Circumcise then your heart, and stiffen your Circumcise then your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer” Duet 10:16neck no longer” Duet 10:16

The Lord your God will circumcise your heart…The Lord your God will circumcise your heart…to love the Lord Deut 30:6to love the Lord Deut 30:6

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Paul: Circumcision in GalatiansPaul: Circumcision in Galatians

Counsels Gentiles against it Counsels Gentiles against it If you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no If you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no

benefit to you Gal 5:2benefit to you Gal 5:2 In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor

uncircumcision means anything, but faith working uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love Gal 5:6through love Gal 5:6

Compares it to mutilationCompares it to mutilation Would that those who are troubling you would Would that those who are troubling you would

mutilate themselves Gal 5:12mutilate themselves Gal 5:12

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Circumcision in PaulCircumcision in Paul Uses it as a metaphorUses it as a metaphor Compares it to removal of flesh (sin)Compares it to removal of flesh (sin)

““In Him you were circumcised with a In Him you were circumcised with a circumcision without hands, in the circumcision without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ. Col 2:11circumcision of Christ. Col 2:11

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Circumcision in PaulCircumcision in Paul Uses it a a metaphorUses it a a metaphor Compares uncircumcision to sinCompares uncircumcision to sin

““When you were dead in your When you were dead in your transgressions and the circumcision of transgressions and the circumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions” Col 2:13transgressions” Col 2:13

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Circumcision in PaulCircumcision in Paul

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Issue #2

Meat offered to idols

Issue #2

Meat offered to idols

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Meat offered to IdolsMeat offered to Idols Question: When we sit down at Question: When we sit down at

someone’s someone’s househouse should we ask if should we ask if the meat was offered to idols?the meat was offered to idols?

Answer: Don’t Ask!/Don’t Tell!Answer: Don’t Ask!/Don’t Tell! Eat whatever is put before you. The Eat whatever is put before you. The

earth is the Lords. Don’t ask if it was earth is the Lords. Don’t ask if it was offered to idols. That information offered to idols. That information could make you feel guilty.could make you feel guilty.

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Here’s the passageHere’s the passage

Someone...may invite you to eat with him...Someone...may invite you to eat with him...

Eat anything that is put before you. Eat anything that is put before you.

Do not ask Do not ask to see if it is something you think to see if it is something you think might be wrong to eat. might be wrong to eat.

But if anyone says to you, “That food was But if anyone says to you, “That food was offered to idols,” then do not eat it, because it offered to idols,” then do not eat it, because it might be thought wrong.might be thought wrong.

I Cor 10:27-29, ICBI Cor 10:27-29, ICB

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Interpreting ScriptureInterpreting ScriptureTwo aspectsTwo aspects Authorial meaningAuthorial meaning

What did Paul mean?What did Paul mean? What did it mean to Paul’s audience?What did it mean to Paul’s audience? Primary taskPrimary task

Contemporary significanceContemporary significance Seeking principle involvedSeeking principle involved Secondary application for our timeSecondary application for our time

Application:

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Contemporary ApplicationContemporary Application Substitute “meat” for “music”Substitute “meat” for “music” This paraphrase could resultThis paraphrase could result

Listen to any musical style in the Listen to any musical style in the marketplace without raising marketplace without raising questions of conscience. questions of conscience.

Application:

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Contemporary ApplicationContemporary Application Substitute “meat” for “music”Substitute “meat” for “music” This paraphrase could resultThis paraphrase could result

Listen to any musical style in the Listen to any musical style in the marketplace without raising questions of marketplace without raising questions of conscience. conscience.

But if someone regards a music style as But if someone regards a music style as unclean, for him it is unclean. If he listens unclean, for him it is unclean. If he listens to it, he feels guilty.to it, he feels guilty.

Application:

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Applications of “Don’t Ask”Applications of “Don’t Ask”

If you like a certain melody, don’t ask if a If you like a certain melody, don’t ask if a nonbeliever, a homosexual, or an nonbeliever, a homosexual, or an adulterer composed it.adulterer composed it.

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If you love a certain rhythm, don’t ask if it If you love a certain rhythm, don’t ask if it is associated with a dance step.is associated with a dance step.


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If you love a certain rhythm, don’t ask if it If you love a certain rhythm, don’t ask if it is associated with a dance step.is associated with a dance step.

Don’t share information with others that Don’t share information with others that could cause unnecessary problems of could cause unnecessary problems of conscience.conscience.


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No Off-Limits for Christian MusicNo Off-Limits for Christian Music

Sound (like food) is morally Sound (like food) is morally neutral?neutral?

No melody, scale, chord, texture, No melody, scale, chord, texture, rhythm, or instrument is rhythm, or instrument is inherently sinful inherently sinful (my starting place (my starting place theoretically)theoretically)

Any music style is redeemableAny music style is redeemable

Application:

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No Off-Limits for Christian MusicNo Off-Limits for Christian Music

Qualifying considerationsQualifying considerations Bad associationsBad associations IntelligibilityIntelligibility EdificationEdification

Application:

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Meat/Music AnalogyMeat/Music Analogy

Student Objection #1Student Objection #1 If God wanted to refer to music (instead of If God wanted to refer to music (instead of

meat) he would have said “music”meat) he would have said “music” Response: learn from Paul’s Response: learn from Paul’s principlesprinciples

How does Paul respond to issues?How does Paul respond to issues? Principles can apply to today’s problems Principles can apply to today’s problems

Student Objection #2Student Objection #2 The analogy is not sufficiently clearThe analogy is not sufficiently clear

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Meat <--> Music Analogy

Disputable Issues (I Cor 8-10, Rom 14)



What’s the common Correspondence?What’s the common Correspondence?

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What’s the common Correspondence?What’s the common Correspondence? Problem of bad associationsProblem of bad associations

Meats sacrificed to/associated with idolsMeats sacrificed to/associated with idolsMusic styles associated with drugs, gangsMusic styles associated with drugs, gangs

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Problem of location, environmentProblem of location, environmentFeasting at home, or in heathen templeFeasting at home, or in heathen templeListening to music at home, or at clubListening to music at home, or at club

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Problem of location, environmentProblem of location, environmentFeasting at home, or in heathen templeFeasting at home, or in heathen templeListening to music at home, or at clubListening to music at home, or at club

Problem of social pressureProblem of social pressureJob-related required parties in templeJob-related required parties in templePeer pressure to listen to certain musicsPeer pressure to listen to certain musics

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Paul’s answerPaul’s answer At your home/someone’s homeAt your home/someone’s home

Eat what is put before youEat what is put before you Don’t ask questions/Don’t woundDon’t ask questions/Don’t wound

At the heathen templeAt the heathen temple Absolutely not! Don’t participateAbsolutely not! Don’t participate I do not want you to become sharers in I do not want you to become sharers in

demons I Cor 10:21demons I Cor 10:21 You cannot partake of the table of the Lord You cannot partake of the table of the Lord

and the table of demons I Cor 10:22and the table of demons I Cor 10:22

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Paul offers principlesPaul offers principles What’s more useful?What’s more useful?

Principles or Answers to specific Q’s?Principles or Answers to specific Q’s? Principles!Principles!

Have general applicabilityHave general applicability Can apply to many future questionsCan apply to many future questions Could apply to musicCould apply to music

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PrinciplesPrinciples The Earth is the LordsThe Earth is the Lords

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PrinciplesPrinciples The Earth is the LordsThe Earth is the Lords Don’t wound or cause weak to stumbleDon’t wound or cause weak to stumble

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PrinciplesPrinciples The Earth is the LordsThe Earth is the Lords Don’t wound or cause weak to stumbleDon’t wound or cause weak to stumble Accept the weak, accept the strongAccept the weak, accept the strong

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PrinciplesPrinciples The Earth is the LordsThe Earth is the Lords Don’t wound or cause weak to stumbleDon’t wound or cause weak to stumble Accept the weak, accept the strongAccept the weak, accept the strong Be fully convinced (Act from faith)Be fully convinced (Act from faith)

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PrinciplesPrinciples The Earth is the LordsThe Earth is the Lords Don’t wound or cause weak to stumbleDon’t wound or cause weak to stumble Accept the weak, accept the strongAccept the weak, accept the strong Be fully convinced (Act from faith)Be fully convinced (Act from faith) Don’t violate your conscienceDon’t violate your conscience

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PrinciplesPrinciples The Earth is the LordsThe Earth is the Lords Don’t wound or cause weak to stumbleDon’t wound or cause weak to stumble Accept the weak, accept the strongAccept the weak, accept the strong Be fully convinced (Act from faith)Be fully convinced (Act from faith) Don’t violate your conscienceDon’t violate your conscience All is permissible <--> not all edifiesAll is permissible <--> not all edifies

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PrinciplesPrinciples The Earth is the LordsThe Earth is the Lords Don’t wound or cause weak to stumbleDon’t wound or cause weak to stumble Accept the weak, accept the strongAccept the weak, accept the strong Be fully convinced (Act from faith)Be fully convinced (Act from faith) Don’t violate your conscienceDon’t violate your conscience All is permissible <--> not all edifiesAll is permissible <--> not all edifies Seek good of others (a slave for others)Seek good of others (a slave for others)

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““Gray” issues are being addressedGray” issues are being addressed Music is a “gray” issue?Music is a “gray” issue?

Context is broader than meatContext is broader than meat

His principles could apply to:His principles could apply to: Movies? TV? Dancing? Smoking?Movies? TV? Dancing? Smoking?

Tight-fitting clothes? Tight-fitting clothes? Music?Music?

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Issue #3

Weak vs Strong

Issue #3

Weak vs Strong

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Paul & Eating of Meats

Weak vs StrongPaul & Eating of Meats

Weak vs Strong

To be strong means:To be strong means: Ability to eat all meats Ability to eat all meats Willingness to set aside personal Willingness to set aside personal

preferences for weaker brotherpreferences for weaker brother

Music application?Music application?

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Paul & Eating of Meats

Weak vs StrongPaul & Eating of Meats

Weak vs Strong

Paul identifies with the strongPaul identifies with the strong

Paul demolishes arguments of the weakPaul demolishes arguments of the weak No objective uncleanness to anything external or No objective uncleanness to anything external or

material (material (The earth is the Lord’sThe earth is the Lord’s))

Paul cares for/nurtures the weakPaul cares for/nurtures the weak

Paul does not force the weakPaul does not force the weak Each must be convinced in his own mindEach must be convinced in his own mind

Music application?Music application?

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Issue #4

Is Music Morally Neutral

Issue #4

Is Music Morally Neutral

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Apart from words…

Is Music Morally Neutral?Apart from words…

Is Music Morally Neutral?

Inherent sinfulness in Inherent sinfulness in Sound?Sound?

In chords, rhythms, timbres, textures?In chords, rhythms, timbres, textures?

Instruments?Instruments? Koto, Tabla, SitarKoto, Tabla, Sitar

Styles?Styles? In Rock, Rap, Raggae, Raga?In Rock, Rap, Raggae, Raga?

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Apart from words…

Is Music Morally Neutral?Apart from words…

Is Music Morally Neutral?

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Issue #5

Tongues:

Communication

Intelligibility

Language Music

Issue #5

Tongues:

Communication

Intelligibility

Language Music

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1 Cor 14

Importance of Intelligibility1 Cor 14

Importance of Intelligibility

Intelligible speech Intelligible speech 14:514:5 I wish you all spoke in tongues, but even I wish you all spoke in tongues, but even

more that you prophesied; for more that you prophesied; for he who he who prophesies is greaterprophesies is greater than he who than he who speaks with tongues, unless he speaks with tongues, unless he interprets, interprets, that the church may receive that the church may receive edificationedification

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1 Cor 14



Intelligible music Intelligible music 14:7, 814:7, 8 Flute (intelligible melody)Flute (intelligible melody)

Distinction in tones = musical intervalsDistinction in tones = musical intervals

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1 Cor 14



Intelligible music Intelligible music 14:7, 814:7, 8 Flute (intelligible melody)Flute (intelligible melody)

Distinction in tones = musical intervalsDistinction in tones = musical intervals Even things without life, whether flute Even things without life, whether flute

or harp, when they make a sound, or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the unless they make a distinction in the tones,tones, how will it be know what is piped how will it be know what is piped or played?or played?

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1 Cor 14



Intelligible music Intelligible music 14:7, 814:7, 8 For if the bugle produces an indistinct For if the bugle produces an indistinct

sound, sound, who will prepare himself for who will prepare himself for battle?battle? …for you will be speaking into …for you will be speaking into the air.the air.

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1 Cor 14


Importance of Intelligibility Intelligible languageIntelligible language 14:1014:10

Foreign language issueForeign language issue

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1 Cor 14



Foreign language issueForeign language issue There are many kinds of languages in There are many kinds of languages in

the world and no kind is without the world and no kind is without meaning. meaning. If then I do not know the If then I do not know the meaningmeaning of the language, of the language, I shall beI shall be to to the one who speaks the one who speaks a barbariana barbarian, and the , and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.me.

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1 Cor 14



Foreign language issueForeign language issue There are many kinds of languages in There are many kinds of languages in

the world and no kind is without the world and no kind is without meaning. meaning. If then I do not know the If then I do not know the meaningmeaning of the language, of the language, I shall beI shall be to to the one who speaks the one who speaks a barbariana barbarian, and the , and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.me.

Can a musical language be foreign too?Can a musical language be foreign too?

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1 Cor 14



What are the implications?What are the implications? Should the principle of intelligible Should the principle of intelligible

language extend to musical style?language extend to musical style? Is music a language?Is music a language?

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Issue #6

Is music a language?

Issue #6

Is music a language?

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A Comparison

Is Music a language?A Comparison

Is Music a language?

Symbolic letters --> NotationSymbolic letters --> Notation Alphabet --> Scales (a, b, c, d, etc)Alphabet --> Scales (a, b, c, d, etc) Words --> Chords (at least 100)Words --> Chords (at least 100) Phrases --> 2 to 6 measuresPhrases --> 2 to 6 measures Sentences --> 8 or 16 measuresSentences --> 8 or 16 measures

Cadences function as markers, periodsCadences function as markers, periods

Paragraphs --> Musical FormParagraphs --> Musical Form

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Legitimate Implications of

I Cor 14Legitimate Implications of

I Cor 14

Understandability?Understandability? For Intergenerational churchesFor Intergenerational churches For Gen X churchesFor Gen X churches

Familiarity/Comfort level?Familiarity/Comfort level? Foreign vs Familiar languageForeign vs Familiar language

Education/Growth?Education/Growth? (gift of) Tongues vs Musical Style(gift of) Tongues vs Musical Style

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ReviewReview

Act 2 Tongues of FireAct 2 Tongues of Fire All languages acceptableAll languages acceptable

Acts 10 Descended SheetActs 10 Descended Sheet All foods, peoples are cleanAll foods, peoples are clean

Acts 15 Letter DistributedActs 15 Letter Distributed Freedom in nonessentials (circumcision)Freedom in nonessentials (circumcision)

I Cor 8-10 “Gray-area” PrinciplesI Cor 8-10 “Gray-area” Principles I Cor 14 IntelligibilityI Cor 14 Intelligibility

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Issue #7

Common Grace

Issue #7

Common Grace

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Implications of

Common GraceImplications of

Common Grace All humans made in image of GodAll humans made in image of God

Though fallen some of it remainsThough fallen some of it remains God equally gifts christians & non God equally gifts christians & non

christians without discriminationchristians without discrimination Non-christians can act morally, do good, Non-christians can act morally, do good,

noble worknoble work Christians can enjoy/borrow from their Christians can enjoy/borrow from their

work without guiltwork without guilt Reformed doctineReformed doctine

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Issue #8

Hustad

Issue #8

Hustad

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Donald Hustad

Worship--A Functional Art?Donald Hustad

Worship--A Functional Art?

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Donald Hustad

Worship StandardsDonald Hustad

Worship Standards A A richly richly understandable musicunderstandable music A A worthyworthy sacrifice of praise sacrifice of praise

Our best = excellenceOur best = excellence Supports Supports bestbest Christian theology Christian theology Supports Supports bestbest church activities church activities Speaks to the Speaks to the wholewhole person person Genuinely creativeGenuinely creative Openness to non-western culturesOpenness to non-western cultures

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Issue #9

Johannson

Issue #9

Johannson

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Q10: Johansson on Pop Music

Understand the termsQ10: Johansson on Pop Music

Understand the terms

Major disagreement with JohanssonMajor disagreement with Johansson Johannson: Theological AbsolutesJohannson: Theological Absolutes

Artistic AbsolutesArtistic Absolutes Liesch: Theological AbsolutesLiesch: Theological Absolutes

Artistic RelativitiesArtistic Relativities

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Q10: Johansson on Pop Music

Did you argue credibly?Q10: Johansson on Pop Music

Did you argue credibly?

Did you understand him?Did you understand him? What did he mean by What did he mean by aestheticaesthetic absolutesabsolutes??

Were you fair in your criticism?Were you fair in your criticism? Were your quotes accurate?Were your quotes accurate?

If you distort Johansson--that’s fatal!If you distort Johansson--that’s fatal! Did you respond Did you respond toto the quote? the quote?

Or were you off-topic?Or were you off-topic? Did you avoid extreme rhetoric?Did you avoid extreme rhetoric?

Avoid venting in an academic paperAvoid venting in an academic paper Avoid hyper-generalized statementsAvoid hyper-generalized statements

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In an academic paper

Write carefully, clearly(Avoid the bombastic. Write what you can defend. Cover your rear! )

In an academic paper

Write carefully, clearly(Avoid the bombastic. Write what you can defend. Cover your rear! )

Examples of loose statements Examples of loose statements Johansson is an idiot, stupidJohansson is an idiot, stupid

Better: he is uninformed, mistakenBetter: he is uninformed, mistaken God made all the music stylesGod made all the music styles

What do you mean? How so?What do you mean? How so? God made all the languagesGod made all the languages

What do you mean?What do you mean? What about the Tower of Babel?What about the Tower of Babel?

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JohanssonJohansson

Christians have been Christians have been influenced into believing influenced into believing there are no divine there are no divine imperatives, no aesthetic imperatives, no aesthetic absolutes or standardsabsolutes or standards..

What does he mean?What does he mean?

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JohanssonJohansson

All worthy art is based on All worthy art is based on God-given aesthetic God-given aesthetic principles that are laid principles that are laid down in creation and are down in creation and are cross-cultural and timeless.cross-cultural and timeless.

What principles? Which ones are What principles? Which ones are cross-cultural?cross-cultural?

1. 2 Romans 12: 1,2 NRSV I appeal to you, therefore, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to...

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