#072, In Practice, July/Aug 2000

s you can tell from the packet included

with this issue, we're in the midst of a

membership campaign. As managing

editor of IN PRACTICE and membership

support coordinator, I have been struck by

the incredible loyalty and support of our

current membership. However, although I

am relatively new on the scene (I started by

training as a Certified Educator in 1996),

I am concerned by what appears to be a

maintenance pattern.

I believe that like healthy land, our

membership needs to do more than

maintain itself, it must be regenerative.

We must make a concentrated effort to

move beyond the status quo to where

our membership increases annually. Right

now we're holding steady, but that's after

a rather severe dip in numbers that

accompanied the Savory Center's

changing role in what has become an

international movement.

Increasing Marginal Reaction

We've gone through several evolutions

here at the Savory Center, but I think one

of the biggest occurred when we

committed to training Certified Educators

so that more people would be able to train

others. This strategy was quite different

from the old days where Allan and a

handful of field staff did all the training.

While the financial return for the Center

was greater then, we weren't addressing

future needs when Allan wouldn't be

around to teach.

If you look at the list of educators on

page 16 who have donated their services

in support of this membership campaign,

you will see how far we've come as a

movement and a network. The variety of

skill and experience our membership

now has access to through these talented

Certified Educators demonstrates the

diversity within our ranks and the

support now available through these

individuals.

Moreover, as you read the stories of

our international members' experiences in

this issue, I think you will see how having

an international hub has helped coordinate

efforts, provided networking support, and

helped maintain a focus on how to not just

spread the word about Holistic Management,

but actively integrate it into current policies,

programs, and projects.

in t h is I s su e

Holistic Management in Mexico—

Moving Forward

Manuel Casas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3

Holistic Management in Australia—

Developing a Critical Mass

Mark Gardner . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6

Ranching in the Russian Steppes

Sam Bingham . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9

Holistic Management in West Africa

Sam Bingham . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11

The World Bank’s Pilot

Pastoral Program

François Le Gall . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13

Savory Center Bulletin Board . . . . .15

Marketplace . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20

In “Ranching in the Russian Steppes” on

page 9, Sam Bingham writes about the

struggle to reorganize the rural economy

of Kalmykia along holistic lines f o l l ow i n g

the collapse of the Soviet Union. The

enterprising young herdsman shown here

earns 10 rubles per head per month to

supervise priva t e l y - owned livestock on a

State Farm that now has to operate like a

p r i vate ranch. One of the top jobs to be

had in the derelict economy, this herdsman

earns as much as a university prof e s s o r .

An International Move m e n t

by Ann Adams

Next IssueWith the Holistic

Management mo vement

expanding into ever more

countries, we were unable to fit all

of our international stories in this

issue. In our next issue, you’ll hear

stories from Canada, Southern Africa,

and more. Please share your

comments and suggestions with us

about upcoming theme and story

ideas. Contact us at IN PRACTICE,

The Savory Center

1010 Tijeras NW, Albuquerque,

New Mexico 87102; 505/842-5252 ;

[email protected]

A

JULY / AUGUST 2000 NUMBER 72

HOLISTICMANAGEMENT INPRACTIC EP r oviding the link between a healthy environment and a sound economy

continued on page 2

2 HOLISTIC MANAGEMENT IN PRACTICE #72

The Allan Savory

Center for Holistic Management

The ALLAN SAVORY CENTER FOR

HOLISTIC MANAGEMENT is a 501(c) (3)

non-profit organization. The Center

works to restore the vitality of

communities and the natural resources

on which they depend by advancing the

practice of Holistic Management and

coordinating its development worldwide.

BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Lois Trevino, Chair

Ann Adams, Secretary

Manuel Casas, Treasurer

Rio de la Vista

Allan Savory

ADVISORY BOARD

Ron Brandes, New York, NY

Sam Brown, Austin, TX

Gretel Ehrlich, Santa Barbara, CA

Doug McDaniel, Lostine, OR

Guillermo Osuna, Coahuila, Mexico

Bunker Sands, Dallas, TX

STAFF

Shannon Horst, Executive Director;

Kate Bradshaw, Associate Director;

Allan Savory, Founding Director;

Jody Butterfield, Co-Founder and

Research and Educational Materials

Coordinator ; Kelly Pasztor, Director

of Educational Services; Linda Jackson,

Development Director; Ann Adams,

Managing Editor, IN PRACTICE and

Membership Support Coordinator ;

Jan Jensen, Office Manager/Bookkeeper

Africa Centre for Holistic Management

Private Bag 5950, Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe

tel: (263) (11) 213529; email:

[email protected]

Huggins Matanga, Acting Director;

Roger and Sharon Parry, Managers,

Regional Training Centre; Elias Ncube,

Hwange Project Manager/Training

Coordinator

HOLISTIC MANAGEMENT INPRACTICE (ISSN: 1098-8157) is publishedsix times a year by The Allan SavoryCenter for Holistic Management, 1010Tijeras NW, Albuquerque, NM 87102,505/842-5252, fax: 505/843-7900; email:[email protected].;website: www.holisticmanagement.org Copyright © 2000.

Ad definitumfinem

An International Movement continued from page 1

In fact, Mark Gardner's article on

Australia on page 6 speaks directly to that

need as the educators in Australia work

to create national momentum to turn the

environmental tide there. Likewise, Manuel

Casas, in his article about Mexico on page 3,

writes of a similar struggle to maintain a

consistent unified focus so that people

really understand what Holistic Management

is and how they can integrate it into their

lives for the health of their whole and of

Mexico. And, as Sam Bingham points out in

his articles on Russia (page 9) and West

Africa (page 11), you really need to work

with the bureaucracies involved as they

wield great power over the long term

stability of a project.

Of course, balance is important in any

endeavor, and all of these writers see the

need for continued grassroots efforts

and training. But the need for overall

coordination and support is essential on

many different levels. And I certainly feel

privileged to have worked with these

dedicated and talented individuals as they

"grow" this movement within their own

countries or regions with the international

movement in mind.

S owing Seeds

I have the opportunity to listen to

many of you on the phone as you call in

orders, when you write comments on your

renewal notices, or when you participate in

the Savory Center's electronic conference.

Thus, I know that many of you are very

involved in your communities and offering

outreach already, but in this membership

campaign we're asking you to go one

step further. I intend to take that extra

step myself.

I think one of the most useful things

I can do in my community is to influence

some of the policy makers and land

managers in the area. I am going to buy

a gift membership for an "out-of-the-box-

thinking" local rancher who I learned of

through the local Natural Resources

Conservation Service (NRCS) Range

Specialist. I'm also going to buy gift

memberships for the County Manager,

the District Ranger for the U.S. Forest

Service, and the Range Specialist at the NRCS.

Lastly, I'm going to donate a gift membership

to a branch of the public library near where

I live and one to the University of New

Mexico Library.

Before those memberships are sent, I'm

going to write a letter to each individual or

institution introducing myself, explaining

why I've bought this gift membership, and

inviting them to contact me if they have

any questions or would like to discuss the

ideas presented to them. After they've

received a couple of issues of IN PRACTICE,

I'll contact them again if I haven't heard

from them. In my mind, the gift membership

is a door to ongoing conversation.

I don't know about the rest of you, but

sometimes it can seem rather daunting to

read stories about the Kellogg projects in

Colorado, Wyoming, and Washington

where all this momentum around Holistic

Management is building when I know how

policy makers and public officials are doing

things rather conventionally in my neck

of the woods. So I figure as part of my

annual giving, I can see what kind of interest

and momentum I can generate in my

community about exploring new ways to

look at old problems.

So I encourage each of you to take time

to consider how we can all support each

other's efforts as members of an international

movement providing education and positive

results on the land and in our homes,

businesses, and communities through this

process we call Holistic Management.

‘If you look at the list of

educators on page 16 who

have donated their

services in support of this

membership campaign,

you will see how far we've

come as a movement

and a network.’

HOLISTIC MANAGEMENT IN PRACTICE • JULY / AUGUST 2000 3

My Introduction to Holistic

M a n a g e m e n t

In the mid-80’s interest rates in Mexico

were rising, and we failed to recognize an

inflationary process. I was working at the

second largest bank in Mexico, Bancomer, in

the agricultural division. The bank officers

were worried about the low demand for new

credit. And, of course, investments were low

so there was a loss of capital. But we were all

blind to the loss of real “capital,” reflected in

biodiversity, which we were losing rapidly.

Bancomer asked me to find ways to

increase credit demand, and I thought there

might be an opportunity to do so if we could

convince ranchers they would benefit by

improving their pastures. In

1987 I initiated a program that

I believed would give the

ranchers a convincing

demonstration of what I was

talking about. On each of

several ranches we marked off

two 12 .5-acre (5-hectare) plots.

On one, the animals grazed

continuously, as usual. On the

other we created four small

paddocks and rotated animals

through them. In addition we

fertilized the paddocks and

offered the animals additional

feed. This second plot, of

course, fared much better in

terms of productivity. Though

there were many faults in what we did, the

experience made me realize that we had not

even begun to tap the potential for livestock

production in Mexico.

A year later when I visited a ranch in

West Texas, I had my first exposure to

Holistic Management. The ground on this

ranch, formerly bare, was now covered in

grass. The rancher said that when she’d first

acquired the land and sought advice on how

to restore it, the Soil Conservation Service had

recommended she deep plow and drill in a

mix of seeds of medium-to-tall grasses. She

wanted a second opinion and called in a

consultant named Bob Steger. He told her

about Holistic Management.

I heard that story on a Sunday, at

2 o’clock. It was hot, and I was tired, but

something rang very strongly inside my head:

“You mean that the soil was bare, she did not

plow, she did not drill or so w, and yet these

Just over twenty years ago, Billy Finan

called Guillermo Osuna over the radio to

say he had something important to show

him. Guillermo and Billy had been friends

for almost 30 years, even though their

northern Mexico ranches were isolated from

each other by an infamous desert and the

mountain roads of Coahuila. Guillermo knew

Billy was a man of very few

words, so when Billy asked him

to come over, he knew it was

important.

When Guillermo arrived at

Valle Colombia, Billy’s ranch,

south of Sierra del Carmen, Billy

took him to a grazing area,

showed him a water pipe that

lay exposed on the soil surface

and told him: “Tocayo, we are

in serious trouble, even though

we have done everything by

the book” (both had attended

countless workshops and

gatherings, especially Society for

Range Management gatherings).

“I buried this pipe two-feet

underground, and look at it no w.

Something is really wrong! And we have

to do something about it soon.”

This tremendous loss of topsoil could

only be due to the way they were managing

their grazing. So Guillermo undertook to

investigate whatever regenerative grazing

practices he could find. In the course of his

search he came upon Holistic Management,

and in 1979 engaged Allan Savory as a

consultant on his Rancho Las Pilas.

The Fundación

Within a few years, Guillermo was

astonished by the increase in soil cover,

the amount of vegetation, and the impact

this was having on Las Pilas’ wildlife (white

tail deer, wild turkey, mountain lion and

an unusually large community of black

bear). But Guillermo’s interest in Holistic

Management did not end at solving his

own problems. He had developed a

passion for educating others about

Holistic Management.

In 1985 he gathered together a group of

40 outstanding livestock producers from

northern Mexico to seek their support, which

he got, in launching the Fundacíon Para

Fomentar el Manejo Holístico, A.C. (the

Foundation for the Development of Holistic

Management). A smaller group consisting

of Guillermo, his son, Guillermo Osuna Jr.,

Octavio Bermudez, Billy Finan, Jesús Almeida,

Sr. and his son, Jesús Almeida, Jr., spearheaded

a campaign to acquire the funds needed to

open and staff an office in Chihuahua City.

The Fundación opened its doors later that

year. The staff and founding members

immediately went to work promoting

Holistic Management in Mexico through

sponsored talks, presentations at various

conferences, and the production of written

materials in Spanish.

The need for the Fundación was

obvious to all the founding members.

Mexico is a diverse country covering an area

of 490 million acres (196 million hectares)

and with close to 100 million inhabitants .

With almost 28 million of those people still

living in rural areas, there is a great need for

sound agricultural practices. But as we all

know, such a need doesn’t mean that people

are open to new ideas or ready to support

such work.


M oving Forwa r dby Manuel Casas, with José Ramón (Moncho) Villar and Elco Blanco contributing

José Ramón (Moncho) Villar and Manuel Casas

continued on page 4

grasses came apparently out of nowhere?”

I rushed back to Mexico City, and to the

bank’s officials to tell them what I had found.

Enter Bancomer

To make a long story short, that marked

the beginning of Bancomer’s involvement in

the promotion of Holistic Management in

Mexico. In February, 1992, top officials of

Bancomer, the National Autonomous

University of Mexico (UNAM), Tabasco’s

Cattle Union, and the Miguel Alemán

Foundation attended a course in Holistic

Management presented by Bob Steger. This

subsequently led to a series of introductory

presentations, sponsored by the bank, to

over 1500 participants in some of the most

important livestock producing regions of

Mexico: Tabasco, Northern Veracruz,

Central Mexico, Sonora, Chihuahua,

Durango, and Tamaulipas.

At that time, I wasn’t aware of the

Fundación’s activities, nor did I know that

Holistic Management™ Certified Educators

existed in Mexico. In fact there were several

working in the state of Sonora (Ivan Aguirre,

Manuel Molina, and Manuel Espinosa,) and

one (Elco Blanco) serving the north central

states of Chihuahua, Coahuila, Durango and

San Luis Potosí. Had we known they

existed, we would have kept them busy.

Beginning in the fall of 1992 and

Unfortunately, some of the participating

institutions later chose not to continue their

alliance with the group, but elected to work

separately, believing they understood the

risks inherent in such a strategy. But their

separation did harm the whole advancement

of Holistic Management in Mexico because

we didn’t have a unified effort in promoting

it. Many people were confused about what

Holistic Management was or how it was

different from the various grazing systems

being promoted in Mexico at the time. It was

not unusual, when I gave presentations on

Holistic Management to groups of ranchers,

to hear one say: “Oh! I know all about it.

It’s that stuff about building a lot of

small paddocks!”

Those of us who remained in the alliance,

the Fundación, Bancomer and DGETA,

sponsored a series of two-day workshops

at some of the technical colleges under

DGETA. Bancomer also provided funding

for the translation of the original Holistic

Resource Management textbook and the

Holistic Resource Management Workbook

in 1996.

By this time, the owners of the banks

in Mexico were less and less interested in

supporting agriculture, especially small- and

medium-sized producers. In a country where

only six percent of national gross income is

derived from agriculture, it is understandable

why both the government and the bankers

would turn their attention to industry,

tourism and communications. That is

where it has remained ever since.

M oving Forwa r d

In 1997, I retired from Bancomer with

the idea of continuing to promote Holistic

Management on my own and with the

Fundación. In October of that year, FIRA

organized a “Forms of Beef Production

Forum” in Monterrey. Eight hundred people

from all over Mexico attended, and Holistic

Management was much discussed. Even

FIRA’s General Director, both at the opening

and closing sessions, talked of the importance

of Holistic Management. Several ranches

presented case studies of their experience

practicing Holistic Management. We also

learned there were over 500 properties in

20 states using Holistic Management in some

form. Within the space of a few years, the

Fundación had helped to organize and

promote 68 introductory courses in Holistic

Management to over 1500 participants,

throughout 1993, Bancomer organized

introductory courses in two-week periods

that I did my best to teach with the help

of Bob Steger. In addition, the bank started

a monitoring program on 16 ranches

that had begun to use the Holistic

Management process.

At each of the courses, those least willing

to relinquish the old textbook paradigms

were usually officers from the Central Bank

of Mexico’s Fund for the Advancement of

Agriculture (FIRA). Today, seven to eight

years later, there has been much change,

and they are the most enthusiastic supporters

of Holistic Management.

An Ill Wi n d

By the end of 1993, Mexico’s rural

economy was deteriorating seriously. It

took much more effort to interest people in

attending courses, and they were not willing

to pay. Even though ranchers were in a

difficult financial situation, they did little but

hope the government would come to their aid.

A new era began, however, in February,

1995. At Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, an

important meeting took place with the

participation of FIRA, UNAM, DGETA (the

General Directorate for Agricultural and

Technological Education), Bancomer, and the

Fundación—which I became acquainted with

at last. The various groups agreed to work

together to promote Holistic Management

in Mexico. All agreed that our weak link in

Mexico was the lack of sufficient numbers

of Certified Educators, or the resources to

train them.



M oving Forwa r dcontinued from page 3

units, or S.A.U. [a more precise measure that

factors in animal age and condition].

Following an outbreak of Brucellosis, we cut

back to 100 S.A.U, but we hope some day to

surpass the 160- S.A.U. mark.

In the last 26 months over 2,000 people

have visited the Research Center—students

from kindergarten to university, professors,

teachers, farmers, cattle ranchers, and all sorts

of interested people. We have made over a

dozen introductory presentations on Holistic

Management and in them stressed the

importance for everyone of the need to

restore our watershed to health.

One visit that stands out for me was by a

group of 28 women, hairless sheep growers

from the state of Morelos (a hot and dry

place). After they had seen our herd and

noted the quality of the soil, I asked them

what they had been feeding their animals

during the current drought. They mentioned

sorghum. I then asked them if they all had

flower pots in their homes. They

unanimously answered, “Yes!” Then I asked:

“Does the soil in your flower pots resemble

the soil in the pasture you just saw? “Yes”,

they said. “And does the soil in your sorghum

fields resemble that of your flower pots?”

Unanimously they answered, “No!” In that

moment, they made the connection between

animal impact and soil fertility.

Certainly there are times when I get

discouraged. But every time my enthusiasm

falters, I go out to the fields and watch our

goats, cows, sheep, horse, pigs, and bees

working on that bare soil, on those coarse

grasses, on those oaks, on the tejocotes

(Crataegus sp. ), herbs, brush and all plants. I

watch them removing old tissues, breaking

the crust, and incorporating old leaves,

Research Center,

provided charcoal to

the larger towns and

cities, including

Mexico City. Whoever

designed the Research

Center, did not take

all this into account.

The reason I

accepted this post

at Chapa was that it

provided me the

opportunity to use

Holistic Management

to help promote a

regeneration of some

of the earlier forms

of production in rural

Mexico. In my mind,

it was not enough

to give talks, presentations and courses on

Holistic Management. We also needed to

establish a working example that could serve

as a model that would

be acceptable to the university faculty and

students, and producers alike. The Research

Center would be sustainable, profitable, and

competitive and, therefore, the ideas would

stand a better chance of being adopted.

Of course that is easier said than done.

The Research Center’s “whole” is meager:

the condition of the land is poor, we are

understaffed, and our budget is very small.

Nevertheless, we have some fine wool-

producing sheep, a scant number of dairy

goats, half a dozen dual purpose cows, a

horse and 170 hairless pigs, which all run

together as one herd, grazing and browsing

350 acres (140 hectares) of oak forest and

native grasslands, 75 acres (30 hectares) of

rain-fed agricultural land, and quite a bit of

heavily eroded land.

Every day, the herdsmen graze the animals

according to a biological plan that requires

them to adhere to very strict recovery

periods. We do not have nearly enough

animals, yet vegetation is starting to cover

the ravines, bare soil is slowly diminishing,

and erosion subsiding.

When I started here in 1997, the National

Commission for the Determination of

Carrying Capacity Coefficients, made a serious

study of the property and declared that its

actual carrying capacity was 38 animal units

(A.U.) and that with traditional improvements

it could be increased to 80 A.U. During most

of 1998 (with a very severe drought for half

the year) we carried 160 standard animal


‘How can we communicate

to the new president that there

are other forms of production

that could help recover our

soil’s fertility and at the same

time help to retain people

in rural areas with a

better quality of life?’

continued on page 6

39 demonstrations to over 1700 participants, 29

presentations to over 2500 participants, and 19

special events to over 4300 participants.

Chapa de Mota

In November 1997 I enrolled in the Savory

Center’s Certified Educator Training program.

Three months later, I was given responsibility

by UNAM’s (National Autonomous University

of Mexico) Department of Veterinary

Medicine to head its 620-acre (248-hectare)

Learning, Research and Extension Center in

Agroforestry, at Chapa de Mota, 75 miles

northwest of Mexico City.

Today, as I look south from my office

window, I see severe damage caused by years

of erosion, and evidence of rural poverty

engendered by a misguided agricultural

education system, and erroneously-oriented

policies. From the classroom windows, to the

north, I see a watershed impoverished from

years of neglect, forest exploitation, and

overgrazing by a few, scattered livestock. I do

not see much wildlife. As the Director of this

Research Center and as a Certified Educator

I have a vision of how we can change the

view from these windows.

The Research Center was originally

created to promote sheep production, an

enterprise that once thrived on the natural

meadows and grasslands of the region. But

the hillsides eroded and the grasslands all

but disappeared when people cut pines for

lumber and, especially, oaks for charcoal.

From the 1500s until about 1940, native

communities, of Otomíe descent, which still

exist in the valleys and hills surrounding the

Part of the herd at Chapa de Mota—hairless pigs, fine-wool sheep,

dairy goats, and one of the dual-purpose cows.

manure and urine into the soil. The simplicity

and efficiency of these plants and animals

working together inspires me to help others

understand the importance of this work for

all of us.

Coming Full Circle

In the summer of 1999, the Fundación

hosted the new graduates, of which I was

one, of the Savory Center’s Certified Educator

Training Program. Allan Savory joined us

for the week and agreed to speak before a

number of groups. The most important

personal learning for me. On one of our side

trips, a visit to the Toltec ruins near the city

of Tula, I saw Allan taking pictures of the

very desertified, polluted, and urbanized

landscape around us. When I asked him what

he was looking at he said, “One civilization

that collapsed because of insufficient use of

solar energy, another that did not perform

any better (the Colonial Church representing

Spain’s dominion o ver Mexico), and yet

another on the verge of collapsing.” His

answer made me realize even more fully

how much work we have ahead of us.

Perhaps the most encouraging moment of

the visit was when Allan visited the Research

Center and I stumbled upon him intently

watching our mixed herd. When he saw me

he said, “What you are accomplishing with

was an interactive closed-circuit television

presentation at the Instituto Tecnológico de

Monterrey (Atizapán Campus). This program

reached viewers throughout Latin America

(calls came in from as far away as Chile).

They included students and professors from

DGETA, UNAM, and FIRA, staff of the Bank

of Mexico, farmers, farm workers, financiers;

industrialists, and county government

employees. This event helped us greatly in

promoting Holistic Management at both

the local and national level.

The week was also a time of great


Consider a scenario of rising saline

water tables endangering agricultural

land, prime, irrigated country

becoming non-productive, and water quality

in a major river system projected to drop

below the World Health Organization (WHO)

water quality standards for drinking within

20 years. Consider that degradation happening

at such a rate that a single landholder has

reported losing as much as 42 acres

(17 hectares) of productive land each year

to soil salinity.

Unfortunately, this scenario is taking

place in the Macquarie Valley in Central

West, New South Wales, Australia where

my family (Cassie, Emily, Caitlin and William)

and I live. And this is not an isolated problem.

Right across Australia similar local and

regional scenarios like this are becoming

more common. Increasing soil salinity is

fast becoming the major environmental

problem facing Australia. In fact, recently

our Prime Minister referred to the problem

as the greatest environmental challenge

facing Australia.

And while I could tell you some great

stories of how people have positively

influenced the degrading water cycle on their

farms, improving biodiversity and their social

and financial situation through managing

holistically, I have decided not to. My

Gross Agricultural Output from Australia.

Biodiversity and the ecosystem processes,

particularly the water cycle, have been so

changed over the last 200 years of European

settlement that an increased proportion of

rainfall now passes through the soil profile,

and into the water table below. Along the

way it is collecting salt. In fact, some water

tables are now saltier than seawater.

When this water table rises, it creates a

toxic layer for plant roots. When it comes

within 4 .5 feet (1 . 5 m) of the soil surface,

capillary action and evaporation draws it

upwards, concentrating salt on the soil

surface, and reducing plant production.

The reduction in biodiversity, through

the clearing of vast areas of deep-rooted

native perennial pasture species and trees,

and subsequent replacement with annual

monocultures of wheat or annual pastures,

has created significant dollar wealth for

Australia. However, the time has come

where the unsustainable land management

practices of the past must change.

While such a scenario should provide

an ideal setting for the adoption of Holistic

Management, it isn’t that easy because people

see the rising saline water tables as the cause

of environmental problems not as the

symptom they are.

Strategies and Ta c t i c s

Currently in Australia, there are three

Holistic Management™ Certified Educators

(Bruce Ward, Brian Marshall, and myself),

and three still completing their certification

(Graeme Hand, Lennie Chaplain, and Paul

Griffiths). Individually, and as a group working

intention is not to downplay any of the

wonderful work so many people have

done to date, or will do in the future, but

rather to determine how we can magnify

those gains quickly.

Given the size of Australia’s problem,

and the fact that the clock is ticking, I’ve

wondered if these changes are big enough

or quick enough . We have seen Holistic

Management work very well on the

individual/local scale in Australia. Now we

must address some of the bigger issues—

how to get many more people managing

holistically more quickly across vast areas.

The Real Cause of the Problem

The Murray Darling Basin accounts for

approximately 14% of the total land mass

of Australia, and produces about 40% of the


D eveloping a Critical Mass by Mark Gardner

‘Now we must address

some of the bigger issues—

how to get many more

people managing

holistically more quickly

across vast areas.’


M oving Forward continued from page 5

this herd, in returning fertility to the soil, is

more important than the many monuments

and cathedrals of Mexico’s past.” I remem-

ber that comment whenever I wonder if

all this effort will result in any movement

forward in furthering the practice of Holistic

Management in Mexico.

This year in Mexico we will have

presidential elections. For the first time in

70 years, opposition parties have a chance of

winning. However, in a country with severe

problems of poverty, security, lack of jobs,

and corruption, and that serves as an

unwilling bridge for drug trafficking, we

wonder: Will the new President know how

to address the causes of these problems?

How can we communicate to him that there

are other forms of production that could

help recover our soil’s fertility and at the

same time help to retain people in rural areas

with a better quality of life and a brighter

future before them?

I have continued to teach Holistic

Management courses throughout Mexico.

But, the situation I see from my windows

at Chapa de Mota, is that of farmland almost

gone, of large cities sprawling into farmlands

and grasslands; of people that leave at 5 a.m.

in buses, taxies, and automobiles to travel

to jobs in the cities; of a country that is

exporting human beings into the U.S. to

labor and send home wages; and of a country

awakening to a reality in which human

values are threatened by violence, insecurity,

poverty, and uncertainty about the future.

We are a society with a lot of potential and


together, we have made some great gains and

some wonderful achievements in a short

period of time. However, despite our

commitment, focus on developing relationships

with organizations and individuals, and

working with over 1500 people, we do not yet

have a critical mass of people practicing or

supporting the practice of

Holistic Management to

significantly shift the

environmental

course we are on.

This problem came up in

our educator group discussions

as well as in the financial

planning sessions for our

business. Through those

discussions, I realized that

despite all of my own work as

an educator, my influence on

the above scenario remained

low. This was very depressing! I

needed to assume my existing

strategy could be wrong! I then

“took my own medicine” and ran my existing

training strategy (working with individual and

local groups) through the Holistic

Management™ model.

In a policy or “strategy” sense, me working

with individuals/small groups is important;

but, it fails the cause and effect test for us. I

perceive the root cause of the problem to

be not enough people practicing Holistic

Management (in a loosely coordinated/

supported environment), and therefore

significantly impacting the problem of

declining biodiversity and ineffective water

cycles. The reason why this action fails is

Often this does more harm than good.

Lastly, with the marginal reaction test, I

have to look at the fact that I have 30 years

left to do the best I can in terms of our own

holistic goal. I know that in that time greater

results will come from working with

individuals and local groups as well as large

organizations to get greater leverage. In effect,

this is an evolution of strategy.

Using the Holistic Management™ model

to review my own efforts and strategies, has

been a turning point for me. By testing that

decision I realized that I need to focus more

attention on working with research and

extension organizations.

While more people are becoming

concerned about the environment, the scary

reality is that more funding to existing

research and extension services (using the

same conventional decision-making) will not

create the big leap forward that is needed. It

could perhaps make the situation worse, as the

pendulum moves away from production alone ,

towards the environment alone (thereby

neglecting the concept of holism and the

need for simultaneous improvement in the

ecosystem, quality of life, and profit).

Our current challenge is to engage the

huge potential that exists within our research

and extension industry, and create some real

“on the ground” change, not just more of the

same. If we can’t engage the existing research

and extension industry, Holistic Management

could become peripheral, and we could lose

the opportunity to have made a significant

difference.

that my “leverage” is not great enough, nor

are these many groups well coordinated

or supported.

I have determined that the best leverage

point for my role in Holistic Management is

through the development of well placed/

influential people spreading information and

supporting/coordinating

groups, not just providing

more training at a grassroots

level.

If I test my decision to work

only at a grassroots level, I

find it fails.

The weak link (social)

shows that solely training

landholders can create

blockages between extension

people, graziers, and me.

Ideally it would be better if

all these people grew together

(not apart) through their

knowledge of Holistic

Management. I am now

thinking of ways to assist well-placed

influential people to attend training programs,

along with landholders.

If we look at the society and culture test ,

working with individuals and local groups

is positive and great, but these groups do

not always have the support they need,

particularly from extension people.

Determining how to support these people

has been a real struggle for me, and I have not

always done it well. As noted in the previous

test, sometimes this creates blockages with

extension people and farmers as they argue

about finer points and misunderstandings.

Certified Educator

Mark Gardner

continued on page 8

with a tremendous percentage of young people

who once had great wealth in their traditions.

Such a society, with a clear definition of its

whole and a solid holistic goal, could switch

tracks and take the road to a more stable and

regenerative relationship with our ecosystem.

That would be a gift of inestimable value to

future generations of Mexicans.

Manuel Casas is a Certified Educator

and can be reached at: 52-5-291-3934 or 52-5-

992-0220. José Ramón (Moncho) Villar is

President of the Fundación para Fomentar

el Manejo Holístico, A.C. He can be reached

at: [email protected] or 52-14-104642. Elco

Blanco is the Director of Education at the

Fundación and can be reached at: elco-

[email protected] or 52-14-104642.

Dances With Giants

In Australia, research is largely funded by

the government (federal and state), as well as

industry. This research and extension industry

is incredibly powerful in dollar funding, but

also in the eyes of landholders. They are also

the major source of information. However,

because they are also incredibly conservative,

except for a few notable exceptions, they

have often blocked the adoption of Holistic

Management, and many other forms of

innovation, particularly those requiring a

paradigm shift.

Management) at Orange. Together we have

offered four Holistic Management training

programs through the faculty, including one

trial credit point program for students.

This collaboration has been a positive

experience for everyone. Seeing the success

of this project is very exciting as we venture

into other arenas. Graeme Hand is developing

a similar relationship with Melbourne

University, and there is great potential to

develop research alliances with these

organizations to develop and document

Holistic Management case studies.

So what’s the root cause of Australia’s

leading environmental issue of rising saline

water tables? I believe it is the same root cause

of all our environmental, social, and economic

ills—conventional decision-making. As Certified

Educators in Australia, we began this

undertaking at a grassroots level to provide

training in Holistic Management and prove

that Holistic Management does create the

desired results in Australia, just as it has in

other countries.

In our small business we are now going

to increase our marginal reaction by increasing

our efforts at the research and extension level,

while still working at the individual/local

group level.

With time running out, we want to use

our energy effectively to bring Holistic

Management more into the mainstream by

engaging the key organizations to create

large-scale improvement in the environment.

This is a big challenge, but we feel the time

is now right.

I’ll know we’ve succeeded when we start

seeing platypus back in the Murrumbidgee River.

Mark Gardner can be reached at: 61-2-

6884-4401 or [email protected].

gone forever.” Finally, after some six years of

Holistic Management exposure and debate, five

years of trials, detailed research, and lots of

money, we’re beginning to see some change.

But, is it substantial enough or quick enough?

This recent change signals a major

paradigm shift from the set stocking

[continuous grazing] of pastures so heavily

advocated. Given the brittle nature of the

environment across most of Australia, this

is a welcome change in thinking.

I believe that one of the key factors for

this change is Holistic Management

practitioners’ influence on the research and

extension industry. Many are getting involved

in the strategic decision-making groups

sponsored by this industry.

These individuals hold an important key,

and for this reason must remain part of our

core efforts. Holistic Management practitioners

are now spread through the Murray-Darling

Basin in increasing numbers, and are starting to

collect data on positive changes occurring to

their landscapes (and to a lesser extent their

quality of life and profitability), and sometimes

within their local communities. There is

nothing like hard data to capture the attention

of a researcher!

Being able to see the data and to visit these

properties and talk to the people, has added a

whole new dimension to Holistic Management

for researchers and extension personnel. In

effect, practitioners are creating a mood swing,

which may now make it possible to work with

people of influence in these organizations.

In fact, at a recent, local Landcare

[environmental] awards ceremony, three

finalists had all completed a Holistic

Management training program. Furthermore,

the judges commented on how positive the

people were. This enthusiasm and proactivity

will continue to be a good spur to others to

move outside the box, and to create change.

Collaborating for a Future

As practitioners are making headway

with their accomplishments, in Australia we

have been focusing on a number of key

organizations that can influence many people

regarding Holistic Management. Since June

last year we have been working closely with

Sydney University (Faculty of Rural


‘If we can’t engage the

existing research and

extension industry ,

Holistic Management

could become peripheral,

and we could lose the

opportunity to have made

a significant dif ference.’

Certified Educators Bruce Ward

and Brian Marshall


D eveloping a Critical Mass continued from page 7

Without support from a large number

of individuals within these organizations, it is

difficult to gain significant momentum across

the large areas needed to reverse the loss in

biodiversity and to regenerate ecosystems

through the Holistic Management™ decision-

making process. These organizations have

strong support networks for extension staff

and landholders (resource managers) and,

therefore, are important for large-scale change.

The Shifting Tide

As I look at some recent events, I think that

some of that large-scale change is beginning to

happen. Some six years after Allan Savory’s

first visit here, a recent, leading grazing

management publication (SGS, “Tips and Tools,”

Autumn 2000) gave the viewpoint from a

researcher that, “The days of continuous

stocking, so confidently advocated . . are surely


Ten thousand saiga antelope are

kicking up the dust and wolves are

howling in the background. At last I’m

seeing the great dance of animals across land

that, according to Allan Savory, is key to the

health of the great grasslands of the world.

And this is, or was, the greatest of them all,

the Central Asian Steppe.

It is late April, and I’m standing

by an irrigation canal on the Yuri

Gargarin (remember the world’s

first astronaut) State Farm in the

Autonomous Republic of Kalmykia,

which is actually a little piece of

Russia just west of where the Volga

River flows into the Caspian Sea.

Since the death of Communism,

however, Gargarin is having to

operate like a private ranch, and it

is not healthy. Of its 300,000 acres

(120,000 hectares) only 70,000

(28,000) are actually supporting

livestock now. Much of the rest has

been reduced to active dunes or

gone out of production as water

points have become too salty. Sheep

numbers have fallen from 45,000 to

9,000. Cattle from 4,000 to 1,400.

The green prairie where the saiga are

running is actually solid cheat grass (Bromus

tectorum) all the way to the horizon, broken

only by dead black clumps that remind me

of the overrested reed grass plantings on land

in the Conservation Reserve Program back

home in Colorado. They may actually be the

same thing. A lot of such grass was planted

back when the Soviet Union still pretended

to have money and American farmers

clamored for subsidies to take wheat land

out of production.

Since the autumn of 1998 the Savory

Center, with the support of several grants,

has been working with a number of

institutions in Kalmykia that are charged

with reorganizing the whole rural economy

from scratch in the wake of the collapse of

the Soviet system. The original contact was

made by a Kalmyk-American lawyer, named

David Urubshurow, who wanted to do

something for the homeland of his

grandparents, who left it nearly 80 years

ago during the Russian Revolution.

This is “free market reform” in rural Russia

today. At Gorodovikovski specifically, it means

you can keep a couple of cows in the back

yard, run them on State Farm land, and, when

necessary, feed them State Farm irrigated hay,

which will be ritually deducted from your

salary, which is never paid anyway. Everyone

realizes that the farm is rapidly

devouring its own assets to keep this

system going. Ivan wants to formalize

and rationalize it in a way that will

keep the community intact while re-

allocating rights, responsibilities, and

incentives so that honest enterprise is

rewarded and no one gets a free ride.

On neighboring Gargarin Farm the

director has recently addressed this

problem by negotiating two year

leases with the foremen of the farm’s

range units which they now run as

12,500-acre (5,000-hectare) independent

ranchettes.

An Introduction to Holistic

M a n a g e m e n t

Ivan and his staff are working

out the details of a similar scheme

on Gorodovikovski Farm. How much

will they charge per Animal Unit Month for

Coping with a “Free” Economy

This is David’s and my fourth trip back,

and we have hosted five Kalmyks in the

United States, but the problems are so great,

the money so little, and political change so

radical, that we have only recently worked

out where to begin. We will start with a

smaller neighbor to the Gargarin State

Farm. Gorodovikovski State Farm (120,000

acres/48,000 hectares) is named after a

Kalmyk general who led the first unit to

actually drive German troops back out of

Russia in 1944. It is reorganizing itself to try

to cope in a “free” economy. We will also

provide training to members of the Kalmyk

State University faculty who want to put

Holistic Management into the curriculum.

We stay a week with Gorodovikovski’s

director, Ivan Baerkhaev, and his wife, in the

village of Sarul. It is a company town. All

1,000 inhabitants somehow depend on the

farm, and Ivan has been selling off livestock

just to keep heat and light in the houses

and the school. He hasn’t met the payroll in

many months, but no one seems to hold it

against him. His house may have two stories,

but he, too, wears old clothes, draws his

water from the well, fishes in the canal, and

grows his own vegetables up wind from the

outhouse at the back of the garden. And he

cuts his people the slack to make what they

can on the side.

Ranching in the Russian Steppesby Sam Bingham

Some of the range unit foremen who attended a Holistic

Management training session run by Sam Bingham in May .

They’re looking through the training manual Sam translated

into Russian.

continued on page 10

?W h e r e ’ s

Don’t worry, this

special section of

IN PRACTICE will be

back next time. Land

& Livestock editor

Sam Bingham recently returned from

back-to-back trips to West Africa and

Russia where he was providing Holistic

Management training. In line with this

issue’s theme, we asked him to give an

update on the state of Holistic

Management in these two very different

parts of the world.


private stock? How much for services such as

well maintenance and water hauling? How

much credit will the new lease holders get

per Animal Unit Month for company-owned

stock? What about bulls, rams, and breeding

schedules, etc.? Will they also lease out 6,000

acres (2,400 hectares) of irrigated hay

ground? What happens if those lease

holders decide to grow cotton, tobacco, or

watermelons instead of alfalfa? Should the

farm help set up a willing entrepreneur in

baloney-making or milk processing with

some used equipment Ivan thinks he could

barter for?

A short orientation in Holistic

Management in the U. S. and ten days of

visiting ranches, U.S. Forest Service range

units, and Indian Reservations in Arizona and

New Mexico has compounded all these

questions for Ivan, but he is enthusiastic. For

our overview course in Holistic Management

he calls together a group of range unit

foremen interested in leasing some of the

land and reports on his trip to the U.S.

We meet at the home of one of these

men way out on the steppe, and rough-

handed men in Wellingtons and reeking of

wool tobacco soon fill the room. Their faces

and names tell a short history of the Russian

Empire. Ivan has the Mongolian features

of his Kalmyk Buddhist father. Our host,

Abdullah, is a Chechen Muslim. There is

blue-eyed Russian Volodya, and Bulat from

Kazakhstan, and several Dagestanis from

further south.

room with the director, is something I

won’t forget.”

I won’t forget that comment. I hear it

again the following week at the university.

We start with a room full of professors and

students from the economics, agronomy, and

animal science departments. About half leave

after the first day, one professor commenting

that our program is probably suitable for the

youth groups (the Russian equivalent of 4-H),

but too simplistic for the university and

therefore a waste of his time.

Nevertheless, those who stay, including

two department heads, do some pretty

complicated planning by the end of the

session, though none as sophisticated as the

State Farmers. We finish up in the city park

doing biological monitoring transects to the

amusement of passers by who want to

know why grownups are running around

throwing darts. That so many listen to one

of the professors explain random sampling

reminds me that these city dwellers are only

a generation out of the steppe, and they

truly care about it.

We do an evaluation afterwards while

cooling off in a street-side café. I have to

admit that very little of my teaching has

come across to these academics, but

somehow that seems beside the point.

An economics student turns to the man

drinking beer beside her and says, “I still

don’t understand what ‘holistic’ means, and

I never knew anything about grass and

animals, but I think this is the first time I

ever even talked to a professor. I think it’s

the first time you ever spoke to me by

name. We should do this again.”

Ivan tells them about a 200,000-acre

(80,000-hectare) ranch run by only seven

people led by a woman and how they use

cattle to bring perennial bunch grass back to

rangeland overwhelmed by cheat grass (a

native plant in Kalmykia, along with Russian

thistle, knapweed, and

some others). He

recounts how multiple

use and environmental

accountability is written

into a rancher’s grazing

lease on public land

near Tucson, how even

in our land of fabled

wealth he’s visited

homes with dirt floors

and outdoor toilets and

seen towns the size of

Sarul half shuttered

and abandoned.

“They see things

differently in America,”

he says. “I learned that in

Arizona they have spent over $20 million to

put a dozen wolves back on the land. That

seemed crazy to me, considering that last

month we spent money we don’t have to

shoot 250 wolves, and we still have too many.

Then a fellow pointed out that there are

hunters in Texas who might have paid $5,000

a piece to do that for us, and that a lot of

American ranchers make as much from

antelope, elk, and deer as they do from

livestock. So I’ve been thinking differently

about our wolves, saiga, and wild boar.”

“ We Should Do this Again”

We go through the short course leading

up to a rowdy session in which two-man

teams replan Gorodovikovski State Farm

on butcher paper. At the end I ask for

comments.

“Well,” says a grizzled old Dagestani

named Djalatxan, “I don’t know if any of

this stuff will work in this country. What

we really need is for it to rain like it used

to and for the wool price to get out of the

basement. But it strikes me that this is the

first time anybody ever asked my opinion

about anything. The chance to draw out

on that map the way I think things should

be and then argue about it in the same

University students practice biological

monitoring.

Main street in the village of Sarul on Gorodovikovski State Farm.

Ranching in the Russian Steppes

continued from page 9


The word S a h e l means n o r t h in the

Mandé trade languages of the Niger

basin and e d g e in the Arabic of the

c a r a van merchants from the Mediterranean

coast, but The Sahel is the same place in both.

It is the shifting sandy edge of the desert that

defines the northern limits of sub-Saharan

Africa, meandering along about the 15th

parallel from Senegal in the west to Ethiopia

in the east.

The nations strung along that

latitude rank among the poorest on

Earth, and devastating droughts in

the 1970’s and again in the 1980’s

made the name S a h e l s y n o n y m o u s

with environmental disaster.

Thus, the disappearance of trees,

perennial grasses and wildlife has

germinated a great diversity of

studies and projects. Since 1992, when

the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro

established “sustainable deve l o p m e n t ”

as the root criterion for aid to the

Third World, the Sahel has become

a front-line laboratory in the search

for evidence that such a thing is

actually possible.

Holistic Management first entered

this arena in 1994 when a Wo r l d

Bank Task Manager named John Hall

introduced the approach to delegates from

three Sahelian countries at a conference in

Bamako, Mali. Presentations were made by

Eric Schwennesen, who was then an

extension agent in Wi l l c ox, Arizona, and

Farhat Salem (from Tunisia), who had spent

three months in Albuquerque in one of the

first programs to create a corps of Holistic

Management educators. Out of that came the

World Bank’s West African Pilot Pastoral

Programme (WAPPP), which John Hall

headed until his retirement in 1998, and

which the Bank still supports under Hall’s

successor, François Le Gall.

The WAPPP initiative in Chad struck roots

in two villages in its first year and has thrive d

there since. Another seven countries we r e

later included in the project and a large

number of people across the Sahel exposed

to Holistic Management. Chad remains,

h owever, WAPPP’s signal success.

Also in 1994, the Savory Center accepted a

s u r v i val. Imagine trying to explain a remote

sensing study, a leguminous forage crop trial,

a political decentralization experiment, or an

inter-ethnic land dispute to all these groups.

Once eve r yone gets the hang of it, it helps to

state everything in terms of a three-part

holistic goal, four ecosystem processes, and

eight tools and then subjecting them to seve n

testing guidelines.

This vision animates both my account

of SANREM ( b e l ow ) and François Le

Gall’s reflections on WAPPP and the

World Bank’s role more generally,

in the next article.

Beginning in Burkina Faso

In its first incarnation SANREM

focused on the small “target village”

of Donsin about 60 miles (100 km)

east of Ouagadougou, capital of

Burkina Faso. Its Scope of Wo r k

called for the establishment of

scientific teams from the U.S. and

Burkina Faso that would engage

villagers in “participative” research

projects reflecting village priorities

for sustainable development. My

contract called for introducing

Holistic Management to the villagers

so they could articulate their desires

and comment on research plans in terms the

scientists could appreciate.

The strategy succeeded only too well.

The young extension and community service

workers on my training team had ex c e l l e n t

relationships in the communities where they

worked and were thrilled at the thought that

t h ey, not to mention villagers, might conve r s e

as equals with university scientists. Equally

e m p owering to people ranking too low in

the system to control a budget is the notion

that if you get the management right, Nature

herself will help you toward your holistic goal.

The trainees went to work with a will,

organizing community meetings and analyzing

the policies of their own agencies as well as

the SANREM’s research projects. The latter had

in fact been selected without any meaningful

community input, partly because the villagers

t h e m s e l ves did not share the scientists’ interest

in pure research. The villagers wanted and

sub-contract from a consortium of American

U n i versities engaged in implementing the

Sustainable Agriculture and Natural Resource

Management Collaborative Research Support

Project (SANREM/CRSP) with funding from

the U.S. Agency for International Deve l o p m e n t

(USAID). I made five trips to the SANREM site

in Burkina Faso during the first phase of

SANREM, and have since traveled to Mali

four times under SANREM II.

The experience of both SANREM and

WAPPP echoes many of the lessons inherent

in attempts to introduce Holistic Management

in communities elsewhere. Treating it as a

grazing system leads to trouble. Ac c e p t a n c e

must grow up from the grass roots, but that

will generate conflict if higher levels of

authority are not aware and supportive. Some

people grasp quickly how deeply Holistic

Management will challenge their standard

operating procedures, and age, sex, education,

and cultural background give no clue as to

who these people will be. Most, howeve r ,

fo l l ow at a distance. A new idea advances one

individual at a time, and every path is unique.

N evertheless, the Sahelian crisis cries

out for some kind of analytical framewo r k

and common language that will allow

communication throughout the ex t r a o r d i n a r y

mix of tribes, classes, pre- and post-colonial

relationships, academic and religious traditions,

and economic interests struggling there fo r

Holistic Management in West Africaby Sam Bingham

The Sahel

The shaded band reflects the shifting boundaries of the

Sahel. In high rainfall years vegetation will extend from the

south as far north as the”maximum” line. In low rainfall

years, it extends only as far as the “minimum” line .



expected regular development projects,

namely deeper wells, emergency live s t o c k

feed, and most particularly a dam so they

could fish, water their animals, and irrigate

gardens during the dry season. Questioning

cause and effect alone challenged both local

and academic priorities on many counts.

Villagers started asking sharper questions.

Researchers, particularly the home-grow n

ones, complained that the training team wa s

stirring up the Natives against them. Jobs

were threatened.

In response, the Holistic Management

training team actually incorporated itself as

an official non-governmental organization in

Burkina Faso (the Association for Holistic

Resource Management of Burkina) and

applied successfully for a seat on the SANREM

planning council. Shortly afterward, howeve r ,

the whole project self-destructed for a va r i e t y

of administrative and political reasons, leaving

all its Burkina Faso collaborators high and

d r y. The Holistic Management team and its

Association is the only vestige of the original

project that survives to this day.

Although the original team members have

been largely dispersed to jobs in other places,

the Association secretary, Joanny Ouédraogo,

wrote in May that he had gathered a group

together to translate our old training materials

and some tracts of his own design into Mooré,

the majority language of Burkina Faso.

On to Mali

A new management team eve n t u a l l y

reconstituted SANREM West Africa with new

conducted two workshops there. We are we l l

satisfied that the Committee and the ex t e n s i o n

and community service workers engaged in

the Madiama commune now have the

enthusiasm and understanding to put Holistic

Management™ decision-making to wo r k .

U n fo r t u n a t e l y, few Malian or American

researchers have come so fa r .

J e ff and I did conduct a two - d a y

orientation session for the Americans invo l ve d

in the project at Virginia Tech University last

August. Also, a number of researchers from

SANREM’s Malian partner, The Institute for

the Rural Economy, participated in our first

training session with the Advisory Council.

So far, however, no academic participant with

this orientation has volunteered to sit dow n

with the Advisory Council and actually wo r k

out a research project.

The situation in Madiama is urgent,

though, and the 14-member Advisory Council

has come a long way in thinking it through.

T h ey had never worked together in a fo r m a l

structure. They represent three diffe r e n t

ethnic groups speaking two diffe r e n t

languages. Only a few read and write. And

u n i versity participants and a mandate to

relaunch the program in Mali. Burkina Faso

was not included in the funding for this

i n i t i a t i ve, but the fa c t

that the Holistic

Management team

and its Association

were almost the only

success in the original

project, did not go

unnoticed. SANREM II

o fficially embraced

Holistic Management

as a guiding principle

for its work in Mali.

This commitment

has proven easier to

declare than to

implement, although

the SANREM

leadership has done its best, thanks in good

measure to the advo c a c y

of the current acting

director, Constance Neeley,

who is enrolled in the

S a vory Center’s Certified

Educator Tr a i n i n g

Program. Once again,

greater difficulties arise at

the upper levels than at

the grass roots.

Mali itself is in the

midst of a nationwide

decentralization program

under which villages have

been grouped into

communes with a great

deal of power, but little

guidance as to how they

will exercise it. In the

Madiama commune near

the ancient city of Djenné

in the Niger delta,

SANREM organized one of

the first commune-based

institutions in the

country—a Natural

Resource Management

Advisory Council—to

oversee local participation

in research activities. To

date, Certified Educator

J e ff Goebel and I have

Sam Bingham (back ro w, second from right), with the Madiama

Commune’s Natural Resource Management Advisory Council, Mali.

Holistic Management in West Africa

continued from page 11

The Bani River in the dry season.

One of the ponds left behind when floods from the Bani subside.


yet they don’t really differ much from any

other people I’ve met in brittle

environments elsewhere.

“If we just had a good well . . .” “If it just

rained like it used to . . .” “If we had a wa y

to kill these weeds . . .” “If you could just get

a good price . . .” That’s how it always starts,

and initial holistic goals come out about the

same in Africa and Arizona. When the

Advisory Council works down through the

ecosystem processes and tools to root causes,

h owever, the job still looks fo r m i d a b l e .

The Challenge

Madiama commune gets about 15 inches

(375 mm) of rain in July and August and

almost none otherwise, but it borders the

Bani River where it enters the world’s largest

inland delta along the northern arc of the

Niger. In good years the flood comes right

up into the commune, replenishing

numerous lakes, and then slowly recedes

across thirty miles or more of plain.

Archaeologists tell us that for nearly 1,000

years nearby Djenné, the oldest city in sub-

Saharan Africa, had a population of nearly

100,000. It has 6,000 today.

When sorghum and millet we r e

c u l t i vated with a hoe in Madiama, fields

planted for three or four years lay fa l l ow fo r

six, and served as pasture for milking stock.

That changed with heavy promotion of

ox-drawn plows. Now virtually all land is

c u l t i vated all the time except for that which

has been reduced to barren hardpan. Only

odd bits of sub-irrigated ground around

some of the ponds might qualify as pasture

n ow. Small bands of sheep and goats

s c a venge what they can. Most of the large

stock spend most of the year outside the

commune—deep in the delta during the dry

season, away toward the Burkina Faso

border during the rains. Those areas, of

course, are outside the “project area.” An

internationally financed dam project on the

Bani River now threatens to disrupt the

ancient flood cycle of the delta, but that,

too, is a non-issue because the Malian

g overnment forbids all criticism.

H ow should the ponds be managed

so the grazing land with greatest potential

begins to recover? How can the nutrients

and organic matter be made to cycle back

through the crop soils and break the we a k

link in the weed chain? These are the

research priorities of the Advisory Council

n ow within the whole they can manage.

T h ey are waiting for honest collaborators.

might arrive on their doorstep on any

afternoon. With great effort they imposed a

rule that anyone could come onto their land

and graze, including neighboring villages, as

long as they put their animals in the same

two- to three-thousand-acre (800-1200-hectare)

“paddock” the village herd was in. This has

enabled the villagers to control the time, if not

the numbers, and stick to their grazing plan.

Though crude, this plan has enabled them to

grow much more forage than before. They had

many, many meetings among themselves before

they could hammer out this very successful

arrangement.

The Issues We Face

Before WAPPP ends in 2001, we realize that

we must deal with three issues in order for its

operating principles to become established at

the Bank:

1) The first issue is this matter of training.

Breaks in funding have slowed progress in

developing a good program, but the idea is to

thoroughly train a critical mass of people in

each of the seven countries.

2) The second issue is monitoring and

evaluation. The data producers need to collect

for management purposes does not meet the

Bank’s requirements. Therefore we currently

have two monitoring systems, though both

The World Bank’s West African Pilot

Pastoral Program (WAPPP), in which

Holistic Management has played a

major role, has touched seven Sahelian

countries since its launch in 1994—Senegal,

Guinea, Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Burkina Faso,

and Chad. Objectively speaking, it has been

an unqualified success only in Chad, but

everywhere there have been small victories

and many lessons. That makes me an optimist.

Through this program we have a real

chance to profoundly influence World Bank

policies. In all countries, the Bank is finally

pushing decentralization and true participation

by grass roots people and producer

organizations. These people need tools for

making good decisions collectively about

collective resources. I am more convinced

than ever that the Holistic Management™

decision-making process can fill this need,

but I am not naive about the resistance to it.

Throughout the history of WAPPP, people

in the field have always been enthusiastic,

especially the producers. Even people who

visited the program sites with decidedly hostile

attitudes have had to report on this enthusiasm.

Some of these visitors have gone to great

lengths to avoid crediting this support to the

fact that our clients actually understand and

like what they hear, but it is the thing that has

allowed us to continue. The more you go to the

local level, the more enthusiasm you find. The

higher you go among administrators, the more

reluctance. The more tactful tend to say, “We’re

already doing all that,” but they really don’t

understand it at all. Maybe they are afraid of

losing their jobs, or their power (Holistic

Management really does involve a transfer

of power).

The program’s biggest weakness is that

we have failed to give producers enough

knowledge to make them truly independent

decision-makers. Chad is the exception. The

original two villages make and implement plans

and monitor and modify them. They have

combined their herds and worked together to

create a coordinated grazing plan, which is all

the more remarkable because their villages are

right beside a big stock driveway that goes

down to Nigeria. Large herds of up to 500 cattle

The Fadje-Djikini village grazing planning

team, Chad.

Holistic Management in West Africa—

A World Bank Success Storyby François Le Gall



impacts, and is contracted out to independent

institutions that may or may not be

sympathetic to what we’re trying to do.

3) The third issue concerns the upscaling

of the whole program, which is still in its

pilot phase. Even though we talk about

addressing the whole, the pilot program is

focused on very particular areas—specific

pastoral lands. This came about because my

predecessor, John Hall, had to launch the

project within the context of the Bank’s

Natural Resource Management initiatives in

the Sahel, which focused on pastoral lands.

This narrow focus has limited our ability

to respond to a more global reality. Before

we expand the program we will have to

redesign it to take into account the greater

environment and such things as cross-

border issues.

The Bank’s Changing Role

As mentioned at the beginning, the World

Bank is currently undergoing a restructuring

and is shifting its orientation to one that insists

that decisions affecting the beneficiaries at the

grassroots be made by those people. This shift

is really quite radical.

Making a commitment to this kind of

change does not guarantee that it will turn

out as planned, however. When the Bank first

initiated WAPPP, they accepted the idea that

Finally, there is the question of livestock

management in general. The old technology-is-

best approach is still very much entrenched in

Bank projects. The focus is on better breeds,

better supplements, veterinary services, etc.

I want to move researchers and government

ministries away from this high-tech

orientation to something more adaptive

and, well, holistic.

Meanwhile, of course, work goes ahead

in various countries but each case is unique.

I can point to problems in all seven of the

WAPPP countries, even Chad. In Mali the

regional coordinator fell ill and didn’t visit the

field for over a year. In Senegal, land tenure

issues are extremely complicated. Elsewhere,

unforeseen bureaucratic problems have

blunted momentum. Evaluation teams

have complained they don’t find conclusive

evidence of change on the land. And I must

admit that many communities have worked

out management plans and then hardly

followed them at all.

But I’m still an optimist. Wherever plans

have been followed, sometimes only on small

sites within a project, the results have been

what we predicted. The number of excellent

people involved keeps growing. And among

the people who finally determine everything,

the producers themselves, morale remains high.

François Le Gall is Livestock specialist,

Rural Development, Africa Region, The World

Bank, Washington, D.C.

The opinions presented in this article are

those of the author and do not represent any

institutional positions or policies of the

World Bank.

land degradation could not be reversed unless

the people were involved. We sponsored what

the sustainable development community refers

to as Participatory Rural Appraisals (where the

people on the ground provide the input on

what they need). Although these appraisals

were done in a very professional way, what

came out of them, of course,

was a restatement of

immediate problems—effects

and not causes. People said

they needed wells and clinics

and irrigation projects, just as

they always do in these sorts

of appraisals. Thus, when it

came down to deciding on

specific actions, the emphasis

once again shifted to

production and social

investment. In effect, they

broke the holistic goal into

three separate goals without

understanding the difference

or the damage this can lead to.

Eventually these threads

will come together in

Community Action Plans,

which the Bank will fund and thus fulfill

their aim of making funds

available at the local level.

The challenge, of course,

is to make sure these

Community Action Plans

are not simply an empty

framework. Ultimately,

someone still has to decide

whether money goes to

schools, health, livestock, etc.,

and they need a way to do

this. That’s why my top

priority is to sell the Holistic

Management™ decision-

making framework as the

obvious answer. If I succeed,

I can retire.

My second priority, is to

make sure the Bank starts to

consider the complex issues

involved in societies where

the land involved has secondary users,

such as transhumant pastoralists (whole

villages that move with the seasons onto

land, often occupied by others, where forage

is more plentiful). Women are another under-

appreciated category in pastoral communities

although they are responsible for some

extremely important aspects, such as milk

production.

Women with the day’s milk (in containers) ready for market.

Since their two villages started planning their grazings, the

women now have milk to market, even in the dry season.

Previously, both animals and people had to vacate the

villages or risk starvation during the dry season.

When members of the Fadje and Djikini villages combined all

their cattle into one herd managed under one grazing plan,

they had to find a way to water all 1500-plus animals from a

well 120-feet (40-meters) deep. Their solution: four bullocks

(including the one shown here with rider) lift one 20-gallon

(76-liter) bucket each, using the leverage of a pully, and spill

the water into one of four troughs.

A World Bank Success Storycontinued from page 13

are based on the three-part, holistic goal.

Monitoring by the producers concentrates

on the information they need to manage.

The Bank’s monitoring only looks at final


Goodbye, Jeff . . .

Our Finance and Marketing Coordinator, Jeff

Coriell, left the Savory Center in April after a six-

year tenure during which he contributed much to

our efforts. He also served on the Center’s Board

of Directors as well as the boards of Holistic

Management International and Land Renewal, Inc.

Jeff will be devoting his time to a small

marketing venture he began as a hobby a few

years ago in arranging tours for musical

entertainers. No longer a hobby, the venture has

become a full-fledged business requiring 200

percent of his time. He remains committed to the

Savory Center and our mission and hopes to put

together a concert within the next two years that

will benefit our programs. We’re happy for Jeff

and wish him well.

. . . Welcome, Jan

Jan Jensen recently

joined our staff as

bookkeeper/office

manager. Prior to

joining us, Jan

ran her own

bookkeeping

company in Jackson

Hole, Wyoming for

close to 10 years.

Her previous work

experience included

positions as office

manager and executive secretary for Arthur

Anderson and Warner Brothers Records.

Jan has lived in the Western U.S. most of

her life and is a voracious reader of novels and

biographies. In her free time she likes to hike

with her dog, Nikki, and the new addition to

the household, Duke, a fox terrier.

Jan says she loves accounting because it is one

of the few things in life that comes into balance

and that can have consistent order. While Jan

brings an orderly presence to the accounting

department, she brings a great sense of humor

to the office and staff meetings.

Crop Monitoring Guide Revised

We’ve completed a thorough update of our

1998 guide to Holistic Management™

Early Warning Biological Monitoring on

Cropland s. With the help of Certified Educators

Preston Sullivan, Bill Casey, Stan Freyenberger and

periods in the non-growing months and

drought reserve. When herd size changes

in these months, too much forage can be

consumed when the herd is larger (e.g.,

before calves are weaned) and too little

gets consumed when the herd is smaller

(e.g., after calves are weaned). Unless you

adjust the grazing periods to cater for these

changes, the animals are likely to receive

a very uneven plane of nutrition and could

suffer a drop in performance. Previously, the

aide memoire suggested you make common-

sense adjustments to avoid this problem. That

worked for some, but many others weren’t

comfortable in relying only on common

sense. Certified Educator Dick Richardson

(South Africa) and rancher Jim Howell

(Colorado) came to the rescue and devised

some calculations that make

the adjusting a lot more methodical.

In addition to this modification, the

January update also revised the formulae

Bruce Ward, and the farmers they have

worked with, we’ve clarified the text and

made some improvements to the procedure.

We’ve laid things out more clearly and think

you’ll find this version even easier to follow

than the original. The monitoring forms have

been modified to reflect the changes in the

text, and a new section added, with a

contribution from Certified Educator Cindy

Dvergsten, on what to look for when

monitoring ecosystem processes on irrigated

croplands. The guide is three pages longer,

but the price remains the same—$12. (See

back page for ordering information) .

Corrections to Aide Memoire

The Aide Memoire for Holistic

Management™ Grazing Planning had

a major update in January this year. The

most notable revision concerned the addition

of calculations for determining a herd size

adjustment factor, which you take into

account when planning actual grazing

S a vory Center Bulletin Board

In Memoriam

It was with great sadness that we learned in

May of the death of Tom Costello. Tom was

a trainee in our Certified Educator Training

Program and a Forestry Systems Manager for the

Bureau of Land Management (BLM) in Denver,

Colorado. Those of us who knew him at the

Savory Center can attest to Tom’s commitment to

his training to become a Certified Educator and

his work with the BLM. His earnest nature and

interest in learning were character traits other

members of his training group also appreciated.

As one co-worker, Lee Barkow, wrote: “Tom leaves behind a legacy of professionalism,

service, visionary action, and personal kindness. He deeply touched

the lives of all of us who were privileged to know him.”

An avid downhill skier, Tom died on April 30th of acute heart failure while skiing

in Colorado. He is survived by his wife, Virgina, and their two sons, Tim and John. The

family have requested that donations in honor of Tom, be sent to the Savory Center.

To date, we have received contributions in Tom’s memory from the following individuals

and organizations:

June Barnard D.G. Gonring Margaret Stine

Marge Barta Patrick McCarty Kenneth Thompson

BLM-Denver Richard & Julie Peterson Darrell Wallisch

BLM-California Jimmie Pribble Jim and Mary Weiland

Jean Ferree Ken & Gerry Reidel

Marion Francis Marge Smith

Tom Costello

Jan Jensen



To support the Savory Center’s membership

campaign, the following educators and

trainees have donated their time and expertise.

We offer a brief biography or description of

each educator’s or trainee’s experience so those

of you who “win” the prize of a one-hour or

two-hour phone consultation will have an idea

of what services you can choose from.

I n t e r n a t i o n a l

Paul Griffiths (Australia)

Paul has experience helping families and

small businesses effectively plan how they

would like their future to be—and then helping

them determine the ways to get there. He

specializes in painless, but pragmatic, financial

planning and in facilitating the process of

Holistic Management, “to ensure a robust

and enjoyable family tree.”

Brian Marshall (Australia)

As one of only three currently Certified

Educators in Australia, Brian covers the

complete spectrum of formal training—mainly

in the rural sphere—while simultaneously

managing a cattle farm with his family.

Brian provides training in all applications of

the Holistic Management process, but his

particular strength is in grazing planning.

Noel McNaughton (Canada)

Noel has been a Certified Educator since

1991. He can get you involved immediately in

learning the principles of Holistic Management

so you get it “in your bones.” He can also help

you clarify your holistic goal, so you have a

powerful vision to guide your family, business,

or organization into the future.

Dieter Albrecht (Germany)

Dieter has special experience in holistic

goal-setting for whole communities. Although

German, Dieter has worked predominantly in

China. He also has experience in analyzing

ecosystem processes particularly for

afforestation projects in brittle environments.

Dick Richardson (South Africa)

Dick’s main interests and experience are in

Kate Brown (New Mexico)

Kate has a Holistic Management phone

consultation practice. She offers a two-hour

consultation to anyone who has already had

an introductory course and who wants help

with the testing questions or just thinking

through a new situation. She specializes in

couples, individuals, and small groups

working on projects

Mary Child (West Virginia)

Mary is a trainee in the Certified Educator

Training Program and lives on a small farm in

West Virginia where she raises a small flock

of long-hair sheep. She also has extensive

experience in grantwriting and working with

non-profits and collaborative organizations.

Cindy Dvergsten (Colorado)

Cindy has worked with individuals, non-

profits, government agencies, small and large

landowners, and Native Americans throughout

the Four Corners area. Her education and

work experience is in natural resource

management and agriculture, but she provides

training in all aspects of Holistic Management.

She has a good understanding of the many

issues facing communities in the West.

Kirk Gadzia (New Mexico)

Kirk has over 13 years of experience

teaching the concepts of Holistic Management

and has done so in a number of countries.

He has a bachelor’s degree in Wildlife

Biology and master’s degree in Range Science.

With an interactive hands-on style, Kirk

works directly with agricultural producers to

achieve profit, and has customized his training

for a wide variety of conservation

organizations.

Guy Glosson (Texas)

Guy’s specialty is animal handling. He

also consults in grazing planning, ranch

management, and grazing management.

Daniela Howell (Colorado)

Daniela, with her husband, Jim, manage

“The Blue”—the Howell family ranch in

Colorado. Additionally, she organizes tours

to holistically managed ranches around the

world. She brings her experiences from these

places to any consulting she does.

livestock and wildlife management. He has

worked full-time as a Holistic Management

educator/facilitator in Southern Africa since

1995, and provided training programs for over

500 people. He has gained enormous

experience in many fields, but worked most

closely with commercial livestock and game

farmers/ranchers. He has experience with

most vegetation types and areas, and is

trilingual (English, Afrikaans and Zulu).

United States

Ann Adams (New Mexico)

Ann is the Managing Editor of IN

PRACTICE, the Savory Center’s Membership

Support Coordinator, and author of At Home

with Holistic Management . She has experience

with mediation, coaching individuals and

families in the Holistic Management™

decision-making process, and working with

intentional communities.

Christina Allday-Bondy (Texas)

Christina works with Plateau Integrated

Land Management & Wildlife, in Austin, Texas,

a company that helps people write wildlife

and land management plans and advises

clients on such alternatives as conservation

easements, mitigation banking, and other

management options.

Donna Attewell (Oregon)

Donna’s consulting focuses on holistic

horticulture and forestry and on managing

the edge or interface where ecoregions meet.

Working from a strong understanding of

natural laws and a reliance on human

ingenuity, she frequently assists resource

managers in their quest to boost solar energy

conversion. Donna also provides assessments

of insect, plant, soil, and human interactions

using the Holistic Management™ model.

Monte Bell (California)

Monte is currently retired from 37 years

with the Cooperative Extension Service for

the University of California. He still consults

locally and overseas (20 countries) in the

areas of livestock and range management.

Educators Donate Expertise

for calculating average grazing periods in the

non-growing months and drought reserve

period. Our aim was to simplify the formulae,

the January 2000 version and would like us to

send you the corrected formulae, please contact

our office (505/842-5252, fax: 505/843-7900,

email: [email protected].

(See back page if you wish to order the

May 2000 aide memoire update) .

but in doing so we inadvertently made some

errors. We have corrected these errors in our

newest version (May 2000). If you purchased

S a vory Center Bulletin Board continued from page 15


us to begin looking at new programs

and forms of outreach for next year.

In particular, we have appreciated the

spontaneous support by some of our

members in response to the recent political

and social upheaval in Zimbabwe. Because

of our work with the villagers in the

Hwange Communal Lands, the Africa

Centre for Holistic Management has seen no

violence, but has been affected economically.

We have had to increase our fundraising

efforts to help them weather these

challenging times. For their generosity to

the Africa Centre, we would especially

like to thank:

James Boyes

Armando and Mary Lou Flocchini, Jr.

Doug Marshall

Doug McDaniel and Gail Hammack

Jim Parker

Mr. & Mrs. Feodor Pitcairn

William Rutherford

H.R. Stasney and Sons

Many thanks also to the William and

Flora Hewlett Foundation for their generous

support of our programs and services

through a $100,000 grant received in May.

Last fall, as part of our financial planning,

my colleagues here at the Savory Center

projected a certain amount in fundraised

dollars for 2000. I am happy to report that

the current status of this “enterprise” is better

than they had planned; in fact, it’s nearly

50 percent better.

Donations have been made by individuals

who have never given before (“new money”),

and by those who haven’t given in a long

time (over three years). This is good news.

It means we are on the right track in

meeting the needs of those who want to

support the Center.

Fundraising is really an amazing thing.

There are things you do (develop a strategic

plan and follow it; write prompt thank you

letters with consistency, enthusiasm and

sincerity; and inform the public about your

mission, projects, and programs) in a

particular way that leads people to give.

It’s a miracle of sorts in that people are

moved in a variety of ways to support the

efforts and causes they find of value. As a

non-profit, one of our roles is to educate

individuals about the work we do and how

helping us reach our goals, helps others to

do the same. Your generosity has allowed

Development Corner by Linda Jackson

Craig Madsen (Washington)

Craig has worked with the National

Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) as a

range conservationist for the past 12 years.

His specialty is analyzing how to use a wide

variety of organisms (from livestock to

microorganisms) to create the landscape

people describe in their holistic goal.

Sandy Matheson (Washington)

Sandy is one of the Certified Educators that

came out of the Washington State University

(WSU)/Kellogg Holistic Management Project.

She has a background in small acreage

agricultural production and veterinary

medicine. She is particularly interested in

goal setting, families, grazing, and farming

businesses.

Cliff Montagne (Montana)

Cliff is Associate Professor of Soils in the

Land Resources and Environmental Sciences

Department of Montana State University. He

is also Director of the Bioregions Program in

which people around the world from similar

bioregions learn about Holistic Management.

Don Nelson (Washington)

Don is Professor of Animal Science

at Washington State University (WSU)

and initiated the WSU/Kellogg Holistic

Management Project. He has had extensive

training in the Chadwick Consensus-Building

process, Enterprise Facilitation, and Covey

Leadership Training.

Kelly Pasztor (New Mexico)

Kelly is the Director of Educational Services

at the Savory Center and is a Master Gardener.

She has experience with small farm/farmer’s

market garden operations and sharing Holistic

Management in family settings.

Christopher Peck (California)

Christopher currently resides in Northern

California where he owns his own business,

Holistic Solutions. He has taught Permaculture

and Holistic Management to over 400 people

in over 30 workshops, seminars, and semester-

long courses.

Tina Pilione (Louisiana)

Tina has lived in Louisiana for the past

17 years. She has a bachelor’s degree in

Zoology with a minor in Botany. She has

worked in the area of wildlife management

for the past 15 years.

Jane Reed (Colorado)

Jane is a trainee in the Certified Educator

Training Program and likes to coach people

through all stages of the Holistic Management™

vocational-agricultural education. While Byron’s

experience is mainly in ranch and summer-camp

management, he also offers assistance in business

development and community decision-making.

Preston Sullivan (Arkansas)

Preston is an agronomist who offers

one-hour phone consultations on cropland

monitoring, soil fertility, and ecosystem health

as it relates to croplands. He can also answer

questions on soil fertility.

Bill Thompson (Colorado)

Bill managed the Challenges and Choices

Kellogg Project. He lives in Denver and is

trained in Steve Vannoy’s effective parenting

program, “The 10 Greatest Gifts.”

Lois Trevino (Washington)

Lois is the Chair of the Savory Center’s

Board of Directors and a member of the

Colville Confederated Tribes. She was one of

the five educators who helped the tribes

integrate Holistic Management on a department

to policy level. She is highly skilled in

consensus facilitation.

decision-making process. She owns a small

ranch in Colorado and has a passion for

horses, painting, and drawing.

Dick Richardson (Texas)

Dick, and his wife, Pat, have long been active

in HRM of Texas. He is Professor of Zoology in

the Department of Integrative Biology at the

University of Texas-Austin where he has taught

introductory Holistic Management courses to a

variety of college students. He also maintains an

active website for his classes.

Maurice Robinette (Washington)

Maurice has a ranch in eastern Washington

and was part of the WSU/Kellogg Holistic

Management Project. His specialties include:

community development (using consensus

to create a community holistic goal), beef

management/breeding and nutrition, and

planned grazing.

Byron Shelton (Colorado)

Byron has practiced Holistic Management

in Colorado for many years as a natural

complement to his knowledge in outdoor and

#072, In Practice, July/Aug 2000

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Transcript of #072, In Practice, July/Aug 2000