Town of Stockton SpringsPublic Hearing – Yacht Club Liquor License Public Hearing

June 2, 2016Transcript

The meeting began at 6:00 p.m.

6:02 p.m.

Lesley Cosmano: OK, we are going to move on to the public hearing Class A Lounge Liquor License Application, James Grossman, Alexander Liversidge and Michael Labinski, doing business as Stockton Harbor Yacht Club, Inc. Do I hear a motion to go into public hearing?

Peter Curley: I make a motion to go into public hearing for the Class A Lounge Liquor License application for James Grossman, Alexander Liversidge and Michael Labinski, dba Stockton Harbor Yacht Club.

Lesley Cosmano: I second.

Sara Skolfield: I am recusing myself.

Lesley Cosmano: OK, motion has been made, I will second it. All those in favor? Let the record show that it is 2 -0 with one abstention, Sara has chosen to recuse herself. The public hearing is now open. If I could set a few guidelines to help us through this right now, first there will be an opportunity for the applicants to present any information they would like the Select Board to consider, then there will be comments that are in favor of what the applicant is and secondly, then, third, excuse me, there will be comments from those who would oppose the application. We ask that as you are called to speak you go up to the podium and state your name and your address for the record. We also ask that if you have a cell phone if you could put it on vibrate or turn it off. All right, first up then is the presentation from Mr. Grossman. I am only going by the way it is listed on here.

James Grossman: I have watched the development take place here in town and seen opposition to what Mr. Zappala did and there is still ongoing debate about some of his developments, but I have watched this yacht club building sit idle for ten years, which is a shame, but fortunately we have Sandy, who has stepped up to the plate and is willing to make a risk and trying to make the original concept of a yacht club in this town a reality. Interestingly some of his strongest supporters are the lobstermen, fishermen, people who have a great deal to be gained, having more activity on the waterfront I think the town in general has a lot to gain, having a lot of Town of Stockton Springs - Public Hearing June 2, 2016 Page 2

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activity on the waterfront, including property tax burden , probably people with some resources might wish to further invest in this town, help the economy, help the businesses in town, perhaps reduce the enormous property tax burden by buying properties and moving here. So, I think the kind of liquor license we are looking for as opposed to the type of liquor license we might more easily obtain is a question of hair-splitting. I would hate to see this thing fail because of a technicality. The technicality has to do with how the lot that the yacht club building is zoned, I think it is really a non-issue, it is zoned as maritime commercial, commercial fisheries maritime activities district, am I right about that, and this is is described as an area that is suitable for functionally water-dependent uses, and this zoning is defined as a very diverse group of uses ranging from large industrial facilities that receives shipments by water, traditional commercial fishing, public shorefront parks, and I think that we don’t have any heavy shipping here, you do have a park, you do have commercial fishing, I think people involved in the park are very supportive and want to see the yacht club successful, and I think it’s the job of our town leaders to have a vision of what this town could become and you have to encourage this to succeed, and that’s all I have to say.

Lesley Cosmano: Thank you for your comments. Mr. Liversidge.

Alexander Liversidge: When we set this yacht club up, we were looking at all the different aspects of it, there’s the docks, there’s the building, there’s the moorings and revenue, everybody here knows that revenues are important, so we’ve got to support a yacht club somehow, so if somebody sails into Stockton Harbor and comes to our yacht club, rents the dock for the night, a dollar a foot, walks into our facility, he cannot drink a beer unless we have this license, and the reason is because the state has always allowed clubs to operate with members and guests. The VFW is a good example. So members can come it, and it used to be they could bring guests, they would sign their guest in, but the fact of the matter was the clubs abused the guest privilege, so the state revoked it, so you can never, no longer bring a guest into a club and have them drink alcohol, so the only way for the Stockton Harbor Yacht Club to have people sail into our harbor, use our facilities and drink alcohol is to have this license. Now, don’t think I wasn’t depressed when I realized the wall we had come up against that we were going to have to surmount so that we could attract boaters into our yacht club, and into our harbor, to go buy stuff at Libby’s, and Hannaford’s, and Tozier’s, and the greatest food in Maine, up on Route 1. People have to have a reason to come here, I have two good friends who are cruisers from New Hampshire, and I brought them up and showed them my yacht club last fall, and you know what they said? What is to come here for? If you don’t offer, I don’t know how many of you are boaters and how many of you have ever been caught up in storms, I was off Atlantic City, I had to call the Coast Guard, we were lucky to get in alive. After you do that you really need a drink,

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and it might sound funny but it’s just a fact, people who go out on the ocean go through a lot of stuff, and when they come in, having an alcoholic beverage is very typical if you are a cruiser like me. We are not trying to shove something big down the town’s throat, all we are trying to do is make it so that we have A, a way to raise revenue for the club, B to provide cruisers come in the ability to have a beer, and don’t forget all the social members in the condominiums who are going to have guests coming from the summer, they come out of the pool and they say ‘hey, do you want to go to the yacht club?’ ‘And do what?’ ‘Have a drink’. I don’t know if you all got that sheet that I tried to leave at the town hall today, I have been going over all the ordinances and the BIC agreement, which I am sure you guys are familiar with, and also with the Harbor Ordinance, and I found multiple places where the town is allowing the Harbor Ordinance to be violated, and I finally found something in the Shoreland Zoning that I felt made sense, because what it said was that the town could take these commercial maritime districts and adjust them as needed for the specific town, so maybe if you had commercial fishermen who could not get to the town water because you had a yacht club taking it up, maybe you would have a discussion with the yacht club, that would be one thing, but we already have commercial fishermen with full access to the water. I asked Skeet Wyman at the first harbor meeting since I bought these two properties down there whether or not he would want to see a real commercial fishing operation as I’ve seen in Kennebunk, Kennebunkport, Wells, Cape Porpoise, they all have big operations, he said the fishermen were very happy with what they have here. So you’ve got your commercial fishing, you’ve got your maritime zone, you’ve got your waterfront park, you’ve got access for the public, we are living up to the agreement of keeping it a maritime zone. All we’re asking is for one small piece. My problem is that we have to stand up here and make a big deal out of something to get a small piece, to just keep the yacht club moving forward, and that’s all we’re asking for, we’re not asking for, we’re not asking for a big deal. I was not very happy when Marnie, the town manager, mentioned the word honkey-tonk when she was talking about our application, but the fact of the matter is it says that in the state law our yacht club is no honkey-tonk, we’re not asking the public to come down there, the public will not be allowed, it is just for the members, it is so we can provide the members a service, have some income, and I personally believe that that paper I gave you gives you the latitude to allow that small exception, if you want to call it that.

Charlie Costello: May I speak? No? It’s not allowed?

Lesley Cosmano: Not yet. We do have another person, Michael Labinski.

Alexander Liversidge: He found out yesterday, we were told that we were going to be declined tonight, and so he had a very important job, he has a bar that he works at, this is their opening

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night, he was going to be here, but when they found, he found out that we were going to be declined, he decided to go to work, so he is not here.

Lesley Cosmano: All right. Comments in favor of the application, and again if you have a copy of the agenda, at the bottom it says comments or points of view referencing individuals in a negative manner are not accepted, it also says that we have the right to limit you to two minutes of speaking up at the podium, and we ask that you don’t repeat comments that have already been said, so that we can keep things moving forward. All right, so, was there anyone in the audience who would like to speak in favor of the application?

Charlie Costello: Yes, ma’am.

Lesley Cosmano: OK, if you would please, sir, go up and identify yourself.

Charlie Costello: Yes, I will. I’m Charlie Costello, 51 Harbor View, I was formally the director of the yacht club, I am not on the board anymore because I had too many obligations. For full respect I don’t represent The Village at Stockton Harbor but I am the president up there, and if anybody would have a problem with the yacht club, it would be The Village at Stockton Harbor, and I don’t think we really do, I see some villagers here. Sandy’s worked hard, he has put a lot of money into this, he really did. The town didn’t, the town didn’t buy it, he did, with his own cash. I don’t see a problem. If there is a problem, the village will make sure that problem is corrected before the town does. I don’t, I don’t see a problem with this application. When I was, when I was a director on the board, I was the guy that dealt with the liquor commission up with the state of Maine. I didn’t realize how easy it was to deal with the state of Maine but not the town of Stockton, I guess. The state of Maine told us everything we needed to know, and what we needed to know is we needed these certain types of permits because as Sandy stated, if we get a transient vessel in and Dave’s taking care of that vessel, they can’t come have a drink legally unless we get this proper license, and I told the commissioner we don’t want to violate the law, so, ironically, all these folks are here tonight because they don’t want to violate the law, they want to work within it. It took me a long time to get back to New England, a bullet hole and everything else, give these guys a chance, will ya, that’s all I’m saying. And, by the way, the page he gave you, Page 14, states he can have a liquor license. He can’t put a house down there but he can do anything else, check the table, I’ve got the law, I had attorneys look at it all day long, and I paid for the attorney, he didn’t. By your grace, ma’am, by your grace.

Lesley Cosmano: Anyone else in favor. Jillian.

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Jillian Liversidge: First of all I get really nervous, I’m just going to throw that out there. I don’t like speaking in public unless I’m in front of a group of middle schoolers or my girls. I’m Jillian Liverside, I’m Alexander’s wife, and we’re currently living at 50 Acreage Drive. I just want to say I was down at the yacht club this past weekend because we are starting to see a pickup in activity, and I spoke with some potential members, and two parties, two separate parties indicated that they would not be joining the yacht club if we did not get our liquor license, that was just two people on any given day, I had about five parties drop by that day, and I really feel like we are going to be shooting ourselves in the foot if we don’t move forward with this. This is important to some people, they want a place to hang out because, that’s the whole purpose is to have a club so that you can hang out and talk about boating and how it feels to go, and I really feel like this is a key factor in our success, we need to make this work, we want it to be a hub, we want it to be a community, we want to be part of what’s going on on the waterfront, we see such great enthusiasm and potential. We just want to see this work, so please consider this a yay vote. Thank you.

Lesley Cosmano: Thank you for your comments. Gay.

Gay Dion: My name is Gay Dion, I live at The Village at Stockton Harbor, and I’m very nervous, too. I only want to bring up the fact that many years ago there was a big change in Stockton Springs, especially in Sandy Point. It was at French’s Point, The Retreat at French’s Point, they went through grueling efforts to make a change in that facility, and they wanted a liquor license, they wanted to make changes and have a commercial facility there, very different than what it was, and it had been idle for a long time. It was really hard, but it happened, they got through, and it is working out really well, and they have, they have had nothing but success with that, and basically that is all I wanted to say. I know that change is really hard for this community and I think that it’s necessary, and I think the yacht club is an incredible effort to make this more of a community on the harbor, I think it is a great idea, I feel very positive about it, I am hoping to, we are members, my husband and I, we joined, I think we were like number one joiners. And not that that makes any difference, but we want to go down there, we want to have a drink, we want to bring our friends down and have a drink, and people are respectful of the commercial issues that are going on down there, I, I, I know that my two minutes are up, but that’s basically what I’d like to say, I’d like to promote it as much as possible.

Lesley Cosmano: Thank you for your comments. Is there anyone else? OK, seeing none we will move on to the next part.

Peter Curley: You have somebody.

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Lesley Cosmano: I’m sorry Mr. Suppes.

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Bruce Suppes: Bruce Suppes, I live at 10 Church Street in Stockton, I am the chair of the Harbor Committee but I am here on my own personal accord, not representing the Harbor Committee. As has been spoken about, that yacht club facility has sat vacant for ten years or more, and to have an individual be willing to commit the resources, financial and otherwise, that it takes to develop that facility I think will benefit the harbor and the town as a whole. If we want to diversify our tax base and bring more people into town, this is the kind of thing we need to do in order to do that. The zoning I understand might be a little bit nebulous, however you can’t have a yacht club without water, and so the water leading to the yacht club is vital. The point that I would focus on is the fact that if this liquor license is issued, it would be only for members, the members’ registered guests and maritime customers of the yacht club, so the public itself would not have access to this facility, the way I understand it…

James Grossman: That’s correct.

BS: Also, one other quick point is the fact that if for some unforeseen reason this did become a problem, the way I understand it liquor licenses have to be renewed, so if there were an issue that develops and the town decided that, well, maybe this is not such a good idea, you folks would have the option to not renew this license a year from now. Thank you for your time.

Lesley Cosmano: Thank you for your comments. Did I miss anyone else?

Betsey Bradley: I’m Betsey Bradley, and I live on Church Street as well, and I would just like to say that as a boating family we visited several of the different yacht clubs up and down our coast and I can’t think of one that didn’t have alcohol served at it, and never once did I ever go ‘my gosh this place, you know, if they didn’t serve alcohol would be much better, so I am in support as well, I think that Sandy and Jillian and everybody involved are reaching out to different arms of the community, and I think we should embrace it, and that this is something that will really help with that progress, I believe strongly it should pass as well. Thank you.

Lesley Cosmano: Thank you.

Nicholas Cabal: I am not a resident of Stockton Springs, but would I be allowed to make a comment also if I live in Waldo County?

Charlie Costello: Are you going to beat him up?

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Nicholas Cabal: My name is Nicholas Cabal, and I live in Belfast, Maine, right down the road here, a graduate of Maine Maritime Academy, Class of 2015, sailor all my life, and all of the

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yacht clubs I have been to up and down the coast have the ability to serve alcohol, and it has never been an issue in my eyes, or that I have witnessed. I think, I admire what is happening here, I think Stockton Springs is a gorgeous, beautiful place, I have the highest respect for the ocean and being able to have recreation near, on or around it, and I think this is a super positive thing for Stockton Springs and surrounding communities, I know that Belfast is a very crowded harbor and so I personally would like to bring my sailboat here and bring my guests down from Castine, Belfast, you name it, and be able to hang out and kick my feet up, check out the town and hang out, and this is a really cool place to do that, so I am in support of it. Thank you.

Lesley Cosmano: Thank you for your comment. Anyone else? OK, we’ll move on to comments from those opposed to the application. Is there anyone who would like to speak to that? Somehow I didn’t think so. OK. John? Mr. Larson is our Code Enforcement Officer, and we are asking him to comment.

John Larson: For the record my name is John Larson, I am the code officer and plumbing inspector here in Stockton Springs. I guess, I had written a memo to the town manager about the commercial fishery and maritime activities for uses listed in Table One of the Shoreland Zoning Ordinance and said any commercial use is restricted to water-dependent uses and accessory to such water-dependent uses. So I called Dawn Abbot, who is the Shoreland Zoning Coordinator with the Department of Environmental Protection, and during the conversation we had, this was a phone conversation, by the way, we talked about what accessory uses would be to something that was a water-dependent use, it’s kind of vague I guess is the best word, but we concluded that sale of food and liquor to the public at large is not a water-dependent use. Don’t get mad at me, I’m not finished. The sale of food to members and guests may be allowed, so I guess, I have nothing to do with liquor licenses, but there is a club license that you can get where you can serve liquor to members, and I understand that is a problem for folks who want to be able to sell liquor to somebody who is not a member that comes into the yacht club either as a guest or because it is a nice place to stop in and have a drink, I guess. So, this is going to drive me to the Land Use Table, because I’m looking at a commercial use in a commercial fishery and maritime activity zone, and if anybody has a copy of the ordinance, on Page 15 of the Land Use Table you will see commercial, and if you look over to CMFA it says planning board approval with Note Number Five, and if you looked at Note Number Five it says that functionally water-dependent uses and accessory such water-dependent uses only, and if you look at commercial, the definition of commercial, which is on Page Fifty of the ordinance, the use of lands, buildings or structures other than home occupation defined below the, the intent and result of which activity is the

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production of income from buying and selling of goods or service exclusive of rental or residential buildings or dwellings, so I guess…

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Alexander Liversidge: Could you repeat that, please?

John Larson: It is on Page Fifty One. The use of land, comma, buildings, comma, or structures, comma, other than a home occupation defined below, comma, the intent and result of which activity is the production of income from buying of goods and or services, exclusive rentals, so…

Alexander Liversidge: So, that is allowed or not allowed?

John Larson: Well, its use, so if you’re selling liquor and you’re selling food, the income makes it a commercial use.

Alexander Liversidge: So what’s the difference between that and the harbor…

Lesley Cosmano: Excuse me. If you could just wait until Mr. Larson is done.

John Larson: So, I guess as the code enforcement officer, and you wanted something other than a liquor license, or club license, you wanted a lounge license if that’s what it is called, you would have to apply to the Planning Board for approval of those uses.

Charlie Costello: I’m, I’m sorry…

Lesley Cosmano: Excuse me.

Charlie Costello: I know I can’t speak.

John Larson: I’m just going by what the ordinance says.

Lesley Cosmano: We understand. Is there anything else, anything else that you would like to say? OK. Do you have any questions for Mr. Larson, any clarification?

Peter Curley: No, other than I have one question.

Lesley Cosmano: Of John?

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Peter Curley: Yes, of John.

Lesley Cosmano: John, we have a question for you.

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Peter Curley: If you thought that the only people that were a member of the club, if they came in by boat they would be allowed under the license to go on, how would you monitor something like that?

Alexander Liversidge: If it were a member-only license?

Peter Curley: No. You want the license so that people could come in on a boat and buy a drink, if he has a Class A lounge license, but then you say that it would only be limited to those people, how would that be monitored if somebody came through and walked up to the building…

Alexander Liversidge: The bartenders. They are…

Peter Curley: So, that’s an enforceable thing?

Alexander Liversidge: Of course it is.

Peter Curley: In a Class A lounge license?

Alexander Liversidge: What are you doing in here? Who are you, are you a member? How’d you get here?

Peter Curley: Well, say a person came in by boat and they were not a member.

Alexander Liversidge: Not a member, right.

Peter Curley: Right, so…

Alexander Liversidge: He would have to pay us a fee, if he pays a fee to spend the night then he would be allowed to go and…

Lesley Cosmano: Excuse me, please raise your hand and wait to be noticed. Are you finished, Peter? Are you satisfied with your response, or at least clear?

Peter Curley: I’m sorry, I’m somewhat clear.Town of Stockton Springs - Public Hearing June 2, 2016 Page 10

Lesley Cosmano: Do you want to follow up?

Peter Curley: No, this conversation, as it goes one, maybe I can get back into it, because I still don’t understand, and maybe its ignorance on my part, whatever, the point is if somebody, if I come in in a boat and I pull up and OK, so I’m going to spend the night, you know, pay so much,

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the point is I would think, to me, that’s entirely different than if I go in the club and choose to buy a drink, I mean there’s two different things, you’re selling rental space, and then you have a bar that you can sell a drink, so say I come through the parking lot, I go up to your establishment, then can you actually buy something with a Class A license?

Alexander Liversidge: That violates the law right off the bat.

Peter Curley: Well, see, what…

Alexander Liversidge: You’re on a property that’s allowed only for members and guests.

Peter Curley: How is it, well, can I ask John a question?

Lesley Cosmano: Certainly.

Peter Curley: If you have a Class A license and you’re open, can you serve anybody, I mean I don’t have to be a member of anything, can you discriminate and say well, OK, you have to be a member before, with a Class A license if you’re the only person who can buy a drink?

John Larson: I can’t answer…

Peter Curley: Or maybe Mr. Bearor can answer that, because it’s a technicality, maybe, you know, maybe it's, I just, I would think it would a difficult thing to come out of, but maybe it can.

Ed Bearor: I would be happy to try. As I understand it, the application is for a Class A lounge, correct? And the code office and the DEP representative for shoreland zoning regulations have offered that he might be able to have a, is it a, what do they call that?

John Larson: Club license.

Ed Bearor: Club license. But that doesn’t work for you, as I understand it from sitting here, it doesn’t work for the yacht club.

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Alexander Liversidge: Correct.

Ed Bearor: And I think, I think the question of policing and how that happens is not something that the code office because he doesn’t have anything to do with liquor license compliance, what I think the issue is, if I understood the code enforcement officer’s interpretation of the ordinance

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is that this use that you propose is a use that by definition needs to be approved by the Planning Board, correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s what I heard you say, a commercial…

John Larson: That would be my interpretation.

Ed Bearor: And we have in our records at least the approval, if that’s what this is, I think is an approval, or its Planning Board minutes from March of 2004 that lists the uses that were mentioned when the yacht club approval was given by the Planning Board at that time, and it doesn’t, it doesn’t say anything about serving alcohol, it talks about a small kitchen facility, so its probably not an answer that you want to hear, and mine is just an opinion, but I think its probably prudent to get your Planning Board approval and then you ask that hearing basically be suspended, which it can be with approval of the parties, until you obtain that, because getting the license is still not going to give you the local permit that you need, so that if this board were to conclude that you’re entitled to the license, liquor license, I think you’d still have an open question of whether the Planning Board has approved this particular use as a commercial use on this property. If the planning, if the, the selectmen here denied your application, if you thought that might be a speedier route, you could appeal to the state, that’s what happens anyway, if they approve this it goes to the state and the state checks the box; if they deny it it goes to the state and we would have a hearing, the state actually comes here and conducts the hearing on whether to basically overrule the board, which it could do, and I can’t predict how that might turn out, but I think at the end of the day you are still left with the need for some sort of Planning Board review and approval for this type of use, and I would suggest that if you obtain that, that if the Planning Board were to be satisfied, and they probably have this latitude, if they were satisfied that this was a use, it was sufficiently water-dependent, and I know that are some other uses all over the coast, I recognize that, and the Planning Board may say yes, in our opinion in this town this is a water-dependent use and you may do this, but right now, unless there is another approval that has been given since 2004, I don’t see this particular type of use as being one that the Planning Board concentrated or approved of when it issued the license in 2004, and I think what the code officer is simply saying is by definition it’s a Planning Board determination, and if the Planning Board were to conclude that this is a sufficient, for their purposes to be a water-dependent use, I suspect that the code officer is going to accept that decision and issue whatever permits are needed from his office, and that this board will then not be stuck with the

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question of whether or not it is permitted or not, it would have been determined by the board who should really determine it, which is the Planning Board. So, that may not be an answer that you want to hear because it is going to require that you get on the Planning Board agenda, it might be possible for this board if it wanted to at least signal how it would vote if the Planning Board came back with an approval, you might know that you are going to get that approval, but it would not be a binding vote, they might, they don’t have to do that, but they might choose to.

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Alexander Liversidge: I am not clear on the approval that we are going to the Planning Board for, because my understanding was that we are approved to use the facility as a yacht club.

Ed Bearor: Well, I…

Alexander Liversidge: Because it was the first thing I asked Mr. Larson was what do we need to go to the Planning Board for, he said nothing, so that’s why we didn’t go to the Planning Board because it was already approved as a yacht club, and it was approved as a use as a yacht club, is that correct?

John Larson: Yes, it was approved…

Alexander Liversidge: So, I’m not clear on what we’re going to the board for.

Ed Bearor: Let me just, I’ll read, the DEP has requested that the owner provide a list of the uses that are going to take place in the yacht club, so it wasn’t a yacht club, it was the uses that were going to take place there.

Charlie Costello: What date is that again, sir? 2004? OK, it was empty for a while, I guess.

Ed Bearor: So, it then says proposed uses include the following types of activities, and I will grant you it says types of activities, so that gives you some potential latitude, primarily marine-related activities, periodic meetings of members, small kitchen facilities, TV room, small get-togethers, card games, that’s it, so, I have no dog in this fight whatsoever, but I can see that…

Alexander Liversidge: I’m not clear on what the board is supposed to be approving.

Ed Bearor: If you, the definition of, you’re in the commercial marine, what you call, and as such I think Mr. Larson’s analysis is probably accurate and says OK let’s look at the definition of commercial, and if you read that it talks about Planning Board approval for such uses, and I am

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simply saying to you that if you want to expand the list of uses that were apparently approved in 2004, you have to have the same board, the Planning Board…

Charlie Costello: Have you ever played cards?

Lesley Cosmano: Excuse me.

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Charlie Costello: I’m sorry ma’am...

Lesley Cosmano: Excuse me, this is the third time, if there’s a fourth then it means I have to ask you to leave…

Charlie Costello: Yes, ma’am.

Lesley Cosmano: …and I don’t want to do that.

Alexander Liversidge: …a note here on Page 14.

Ed Bearor: Yes, yes I have, I have.

Alexander Liversidge: You’ve got it? And you don’t think that that gives the Selectpeople the latitude to make a decision on something as minor as a liquor license when I think we could probably all agree that the rest of the facility fits the maritime zone use, right, we’ve got boats, docks.

Ed Bearor: I don’t agree, and I don’t…

Alexander Liversidge: You don’t, OK, and why would that be?

Ed Bearor: I’ll explain. It’s not for this board to define the terms in the zoning ordinance, it’s for the townspeople to pass an ordinance that includes definitions, like the one that was read this evening, and that the legislative body, which is the Town Meeting of the Town of Stockton Springs, they make those determinations, this board doesn’t, this board doesn’t define things in an ordinance, the definitions are in the ordinance, so what this is urging is that towns define things in a certain way…

Alexander Liversidge: Right, and they can make choices…

Town of Stockton Springs - Public Hearing June 2, 2016 Page 14

Ed Bearor: Correct.

Alexander Liversidge: …to get the maritime zones to fit in with their waterfront.

Ed Bearor: That’s correct, so, I offered you, again just my proposed path here, I’m not the decision-maker, would be for you to go to the Planning Board and see if they find this to be sufficiently maritime-related, because it’s a Planning Board call…

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Alexander Liversidge: OK.

Ed Bearor: …or, and I think that this would be a longer route, you could, you could petition to change the definitions in your Shoreland Zoning Ordinance, which I believe we have to run by DEP, but I don’t think they have any black-and-white lines as to what they will accept or not accept in terms of uses allowed within a particular zone, but I…

Alexander Liversidge: I argue this as being latitude for the town.

Ed Bearor: For the town.

Alexander Liversidge: But the board…

Ed Bearor: It’s the Town Meeting, it’s not the board that makes the, that has that latitude.

Alexander Liversidge: So, why are we, I’m not sure, why is the liquor…

Lesley Cosmano: OK. Mr. Larson.

John Larson: I’m trying to resolve this based on the content of the ordinances as they exist today. If the yacht club were to submit an application to me next Wednesday, we could put you on the agenda for July’s meeting, which is the first Wednesday of July, July 6th, and if we have the letter from the DEP stating that they don’t have an issue with a lounge license, I think the Planning Board can use that note that’s in the ordinance to determine if a commercial use is allowed in a commercial maritime activity, then you can come back to the Select Board and they can make their decision whether you can have a license or not.

Lesley Cosmano: Mr. Liversidge…

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Alexander Liversidge: No, I’m not happy.

Lesley Cosmano: Is that…

Alexander Liversidge: The town is violating their own ordinances.

Lesley Cosmano: We are offering you a way to…

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Alexander Liversidge: I’m telling you that the Town violates their own ordinances, I am going to make a big deal out of the fact that we are being held to a higher standard than the town holds itself…

Lesley Cosmano: I know you have made references to that earlier when you were speaking…

Alexander Liversidge: …I appreciate it.

Lesley Cosmano: Would you like to go forward with the Planning Board option…

Alexander Liversidge: I have to talk to my directors.

Lesley Cosmano: Would you like to take a few minutes and talk to them? We’re not here…

Alexander Liversidge: Is time of an essence here, do we have to make a decision right now?

Lesley Cosmano: The offering was that we could suspend tonight’s hearing…

JL: The 22nd of June…

Alexander Liversidge: How was that…

John Larson: is when the agenda gets posted for Planning Board, so I have to have a complete application by June 22nd, that’s when you guys have to do it.

Ed Bearor: The advantage to table is that you don’t to reapply, otherwise the choice is that the board votes it up or down, and if the board votes it down, your only choice is then to appeal that decision to the state liquor commission, which you’re more than welcome to do, but if they, if the liquor commission upholds the board, then you can appeal to the district court and all that

Town of Stockton Springs - Public Hearing June 2, 2016 Page 16

stuff, which of course is much more time-consuming steps. If they table this and bring it up again at their meeting following the Planning Board’s meeting in July, if the circumstances go your way, then this board will take it off the table and make a decision at that time, I think at the end of the day that’s probably the more expeditious route for you.

Alexander Liversidge: OK. Can we take a few minutes with the directors?

Peter Curley: Yes, sure.

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Lesley Cosmano: We will be in recess say for ten minutes.

The Board goes into recess for ten minutes

Lesley Cosmano: We’re back in session at 6:50. Mr. Liversidge.

Alexander Liversidge: Yes, the yacht club would like to table it.

Lesley Cosmano: OK, that’s your preference?

Alexander Liversidge: Yes.

Lesley Cosmano: OK. All right, do I hear a motion then that we suspend this hearing of the liquor license for the Stockton Springs Yacht Club until after the Planning Board holds their meeting on July 6th?

Peter Curley: I make that motion, second it.

Ed Bearor: Could I just ask that you, just for the public’s benefit, and perhaps pull the motion, that this board would next meet on July 7th at their regular meeting, is that correct?

Peter Curley: The Planning Board would meet…

Lesley Cosmano: It will be going before them, now we’re assuming that they’re going to make a decision that night?

Ed Bearor: Right, I think what you’re saying is that you will take this matter up following the Planning Board’s decision, which you would anticipate being on the 6th, you don’t control that so

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you don’t know, but if the Planning Board’s decision is made on the 6th, then you would take this up on the 7th.

Lesley Cosmano: Correct, and if there is no decision on the 6th, then we would have to wait until August. OK, so you are in agreement with that?

Alexander Liversidge: Yes.

Lesley Cosmano: So, with that amendment in the motion? OK. All those in favor? Let the vote show 2-0 with one abstention.

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Alexander Liversidge: Thank you.

Lesley Cosmano: We are going to take another five-minute recess and Mr. Bearor is going to be leaving us.

Five-minute recess taken

Lesley Cosmano: OK, we are back in session, can you see what time it is, at 7:05?

Sara Skolfield: I’m here.

Lesley Cosmano: We need a motion to leave the public hearing.

Peter Curley: I make a motion that we close the public hearing.

Lesley Cosmano: At 7:00. Do I hear a second?

Peter Curley: Second.

Lesley Cosmano: All those in favor? OK, 2-0.

The public hearing ended at 7:07 p.m.

Approved 7/7/16

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