Regional O r a l H i s t o r y Of f i c e The Bancrof t L i b r a r y

U n i v e r s i t y o f C a l i f o r n i a Berke ley , C a l i f o r n i a

Government H i s t o r y Documentat i o n Pro j e c t Ronald Reagan G u b e r n a t o r i a l Era

\ REPUBLICAN PHILOSOPHY AND PARTY ACTIVISM

J a q u e l i n Hume B a s i c Economics and t h e Body P o l i t i c : Views o f a Nor thern C a l i f o r n i a Reagan L o y a l i s t

E leanor Ring S t o r r s P a r t i e s , P o l i t i c s , and P r i n c i p l e s : "It 's a t t h e Loca l Level"

J a c k Wrather On F r i e n d s h i p , P o l i t i c s , and Government

T i r s o d e l Junco C a l i f o r n i a Republ ican P a r t y Leadersh ip and Success , 1966-1982

I n t e r v i e w s Conducted by G a b r i e l l e Mor r i s and Sa rah Sharp

1982-1983

Copyr ight @ 1984 by t h e Regents of t h e U n i v e r s i t y of C a l f i o r n i a

This manuscript i s made a v a i l a b l e f o r research purposes. No p a r t of t h e manuscript may be quoted f o r pub l i ca t i on without t he w r i t t e n permission of t h e D i r ec to r of The Bancroft L ibrary of t h e Univers i ty of C a l i f o r n i a a t Berkeley.

Requests f o r permission t o quote f o r pub l i ca t i on should be addressed t o t he Regional Oral His tory Off ice , 486 Library , and should inc lude i d e n t i f i c a t i o n of t h e s p e c i f i c passages t o be quoted, a n t i c i p a t e d use of t h e passages, and i d e n t i f i c a t i o n of t h e user .

It is recommended t h a t t h i s o r a l h i s t o r y be c i t e d a s fol lows:

To cTte t h e volume: ) Par ty Activism, an o r a l h i s t o r y conducted 1982-1983, Regional Oral His tory Off ice , The Bancroft Library, Univers i ty of Ca l i fo rn i a , Berkeley, 19 84.

To c i t e an i n d i v i d u a l interview: Jaque l in Hume, "Basic Economics and t h e Body P o l i t i c : V i e w s of a Northern Ca l i fo rn i a Reagan Loya l i s t , " an o r a l h i s t o r y conducted 1982 by Gabr i e l l e Morris, i n Republican Philosophy and Par ty Activism, Regional Oral His tory Off ice , The Bancroft Library, Univers i ty of Ca l i fo rn i a , Berkeley, 1984.

Copy No.

On behalf of f u t u r e scholars , t h e Regional Oral History Off ice wishes t o thank those who have responded t o t he Off ice ' s reques t f o r funds t o cont inue documentation of Ronald Reagan's yea r s a s governor of Cal i fornia . Donors t o t he p r o j e c t a s of May 1984 a r e l i s t e d below.

Anonymous Margaret Brock Monroe Browne Edward W. Car te r Sherman Chickering Ayle t t B. Cotton J u s t i n Dart William C. Edwards William Randolph Hearst William Hewlett Jaque 1 ine Hume. Ear l e Jorgensen L. W. Lane, Jr. Gordon C. Luce Norman B. Livermore, Jr. Joseph A. and Gladys G. Moore David Packard Robert 0. Reynolds Henry and Grace S a l v a t o r i Po r t e r Sesnon Dean A. Watkins

PREFACE

Ca l i fo rn ia government and p o l i t i c s from 1966 through 1974 a r e the focus of t h e Reagan Gubernatorial Era S e r i e s of t h e s t a t e Government History Documenta- t i o n P ro jec t , conducted by t h e Regional Oral History Off ice of The Bancroft Library wi th the p a r t i c i p a t i o n of t h e o r a l h i s t o r y programs a t t h e Davis and Los Angeles campuses of t h e Universi ty of Ca l i fo rn ia , Claremont Graduate School, and Ca l i fo rn ia S t a t e Universi ty a t Ful le r ton . This series of interviews c a r r i e s forward s t u d i e s of s i g n i f i c a n t i s s u e s and processes i n publ ic adminis t ra t ion begun by t h e Regional Oral History Off ice i n 1969. I n previous series, i n t e r - views with over 220 l e g i s l a t o r s , e l ec t ed and appointed o f f i c i a l s , and o the r s a c t i v e i n publ ic l i f e during the governorships of Ea r l Warren, Goodwin Knight, and Edmund Brown, Sr., were completed and a r e now a v a i l a b l e t o scholars .

The f i r s t u n i t i n t h e Government History Documentation P ro jec t , t h e Ea r l Warren Se r i e s , produced interviews with Warren himself and o the r s centered on key developments i n p o l i t i c s and government adminis t ra t ion a t t he s t a t e and county l e v e l , innovations i n c r iminal j u s t i c e , publ ic hea l th , and s o c i a l wel fare from 1925-1953. Interviews i n t h e Knight-Brown Era cont inuedthe e a r l i e r i n q u i r i e s i n t o the na tu re of t h e governor's o f f i c e and i ts r e l a t i o n s with executive departments and t h e l e g i s l a t u r e , andexp lo red the rapid s o c i a l and economic changes i n t h e years 1953-1966, a s w e l l a s preserving Brown's own account of h i s ex tens ive p o l i t i c a l career . Among t h e i s s u e s documented were the rise and f a l l of t h e Democratic pa r ty ; establ ishment of t h e Ca l i fo rn ia Water Plan; e l e c t i o n law changes, reapportionment and new p o l i t i c a l techniques; educat ion and var ious s o c i a l programs.

During Ronald ~ e a ~ a n ' s yea r s a s governor, important changes became evident i n Ca l i fo rn ia government and p o l i t i c s . H i s adminis t ra t ion marked an end t o the progressive period which had provided t h e determining o u t l i n e s of government organiza t ion and p o l i t i c a l s t r a t e g y s i n c e 1910 and t h e beginning of a period of l i m i t s i n s t a t e pol icy and programs, t he ex tent of which i s not y e t c l e a r . Interviews i n t h i s s e r i e s d e a l with t h e e f f o r t s of t h e adminis t ra t ion t o inc rease government e f f i c i ency and economy and with organiza t ional innovat ions designed t o expand t h e management c a p a b i l i t y of t h e governor's o f f i c e , a s w e l l a s c r i t i c a l aspec ts of s t a t e hea l th , education, welfare, conservat ion, and cr iminal j u s t i c e programs. Leg i s l a t ive and executive department n a r r a t o r s provide t h e i r perspec- t i v e s on these e f f o r t s and t h e i r impact on the continuing process of l e g i s l a t i v e and e l e c t i v e p o l i t i c s .

Work began on t h e Reagan Gubernatorial Era Se r i e s i n 1979. Planning and research f o r t h i s phase of t h e p r o j e c t were augmented by p a r t i c i p a t i o n of o ther o r a l h i s t o r y programs with experience i n publ ic a f f a i r s . Addit ional advisors were se l ec t ed t o provide r e l evan t background f o r i den t i fy ing persons t o be interviewed and understanding of i s s u e s t o be documented. P ro jec t research f i l e s , developed by the Regional Oral History Off ice s t a f f t o provide a systematic background f o r quest ions, were updated t o add personal , t o p i c a l , and chronological d a t a f o r t h e Reagan period t o t h e e x i s t i n g base of information f o r 1925 through 1966, and t o supplement research by p a r t i c i p a t i n g programs a s needed. Valuable, cont inuing a s s i s t a n c e i n preparing f o r interviews was provided by the Hoover I n s t i t u t i o n a t Stanford Universi ty, which houses the Ronald Reagan Papers, and by t h e S t a t e Archives i n Sacramento.

A n e f f o r t was made t o s e l e c t a range of interviewees t h a t would r e f l e c t t he inc rease i n government r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s and t h a t would represent d ive r se po in t s of view. I n genera l , p a r t i c i p a t i n g programs were cont rac ted t o conduct interviews on top ic s with which they have p a r t i c u l a r e x p e r t i s e , with persons p resen t ly loca ted nearby. Each in terv iew is i d e n t i f i e d a s t o t h e o r i g i n a t i n g i n s t i t u t i o n . Most interviewees have been queried on a l imi t ed number of t op ic s with which they were personal ly connected; a few n a r r a t o r s with unusual breadth of experience have been asked t o d i scuss a m u l t i p l i c i t y of subjects . When poss ib l e , t h e in terv iews have t raced the course of s p e c i f i c i s s u e s leading up t o and r e s u l t i n g from events during t h e Reagan adminis t ra t ion i n order t o develop a sense of t h e con t inu i ty and i n t e r r e l a t i o n s h i p s t h a t a r e a s i g n i f i c a n t a spec t of t h e government process.

Throughout Reagan's years a s governor, t he re was considerable i n t e r e s t and specu la t ion concerning h i s p o t e n t i a l f o r t h e presidency; by t h e time interview- ing f o r t h i s p r o j e c t began i n l a t e 1980, he was indeed pres ident . P ro jec t in te rv iewers have attempted, where appropr ia te , t o r e t r i e v e r e c o l l e c t i o n s of t h a t contemporary concern a s i t operated i n the governor's o f f i c e . The i n t e n t of t h e present in te rv iews, however, is t o document t h e course of Ca l i fo rn ia government from 1967 t o 1974, and Reagan's impact on it. While many interview- ees frame t h e i r n a r r a t i v e s of t h e Sacramento .years i n r e l a t i o n t o goals and performance of Reagan's na t iona l administratdon, t h e i r comments o f t e n c l a r i f y

' a s p e c t s of t h e guberna tor ia l period t h a t were not c l e a r a t t he time. Like o the r h i s t o r i c a l documentation, t hese o r a l h i s t o r i e s do not i n themselves provide t h e complete record of t h e pas t . It i s hoped t h a t they o f f e r f i r s t h a n d experience of passions and p e r s o n a l i t i e s t h a t have inf luenced s i g n i f i c a n t events pas t and present .

The Reagan Gubernatorial Era Se r i e s was begun with funding from t h e Cal i forn ia l e g i s l a t u r e v i a t h e o f f i c e of t h e Secretary of S t a t e and continued through t h e generosi ty of var ious indiv idual donors. Several memoirs have been funded i n p a r t by t h e Ca l i fo rn ia Women i n P o l i t i c s P ro jec t under a g ran t from t h e National Endowment f o r the Humanities, inc luding a matching grant from t h e Rockefeller Foundation; by t h e S i e r r a Club P ro jec t e l s o under a NEH g ran t ; and by the p r i v a t e l y funded Bay Area S t a t e and Regional Planning P ro jec t . This j o i n t funding has enabled s t a f f working wi th n a r r a t o r s and top ic s r e l a t e d t o seve ra l p r o j e c t s t o expand the scope and thoroughness of each i n d i v i d i a l in te rv iew involved by c a r e f u l coordinat ion of t h e i r work.

The Regional Oral History Off ice was e s t ab l i shed t o tape record autobio- graphica l interviews wi th persons s i g n i f i c a n t i n the h i s t o r y of Ca l i fo rn ia and the West. The Off ice is under the adminis t ra t ive d i r e c t i o n of James D. Hart , Di rec tor of t h e Bancroft Library, and Willa Baum, head of t he Office. Copies of a l l interviews i n t h e s e r i e s a r e a v a i l a b l e f o r research use i n The Bancroft Library, UCLA Department of Special Col lec t ions , and the S t a t e Archives i n Sacramento. Selected interviews a r e a l s o a v a i l a b l e a t o the r manuscript depos i to r i e s .

Ju ly 1982 Regional Oral History Off ice 486 The Bancroft Library Universi ty of Ca l i fo rn ia a t Berkeley

Gabr ie l le Morris P ro jec t Direc tor

REAGAN GUBERNATORIAL ERA PROJECT

Advisory Council

Eugene Bardach Charles Benson .

Nicole Biggar t John Bums Lou Cannon Ber t Coffey Edmund Cons tan t in i Lawrence deGraaf Enid Douglass Harold E. Geiogue James Gregory Ronald Grele Gary Hamilton Mary E l l en Leary Eugene C. Lee

In te rv iewers

Malca Chal l A.I . Dickman* Enid Douglass Steve Edgington Harvey Grody Gabr i e l l e Morris Sarah Sharp J u l i e Shearer Stephen S t e r n Hi tch Tuchman

James W , Leiby Edwin Meese 111 Sheldon L. Messinger James R. Mills William K. Muir Charles. Palm A. Alan Pos t Alber t S. Rodda Ed Salzman Paul Seabury Alex S h e r r i f f s Michael E. Smith A. Rur ic Todd Molly S tu rges T u t h i l l Raymond Wolfinger

*Deceased dur ing t h e ;&n of t he p r o j e c t

INTRODUCTION

I n Republican Philosophy and P a r t y Activism, J aque l in Hume, Eleanor Ring S t o r r s , Jack Wrather and Ti rso d e l Junco d i scuss t h e i r long-time phi losophical a f f i n i t y f o r Ronald Reagan and the Republican pa r ty . A l l four interviewees f o r t h i s cu r r en t volume inthe Ronald Reagan-Gubernatorial Era o r a l h i s t o r y p r o j e c t speak from long acquaintance wi th Reagan and w i t h o the r no tab le Ca l i fo rn i a Repub lic-,ans .

I n "Basic Economics and t h e Body P o l i t i c : Views of a Northern Ca l i fo rn i a Reagan Loyal i s t , " Hume cons iders h i s e a r l y p o l i t i c a l a c t i v i t i e s i n t h e National Republican Congressional Campaign Committee, t h e 1952 C i t i zens f o r Eisenhower p r e s i d e n t i a l campaign, and t h e 1954 Eisenhower Congressional Committee. Hume became a c t i v e aga in i n p o l i t i c s when he was t h e Northern C a l i f o r n i a Finance Chairman f o r Barry Goldwater, Sr . i n t h e 1963-1964 per iod , and only then because Goldwater " typi f ied t h e p o l i t i c a l philosophy" which Hume supported. This organi- z a t i o n a l w o r k f o r Eisenhower and Goldwater s e t t h e s t a g e f o r t he long-term commitment which Hume made t o t h e p a r t y ' s newcomer, Ronald Reagan, beginning i n 1964 and cont inuing t o t h e present day. A s do t h e o t h e r i n t e ~ e w e e s included he re , Hume makes cameo no te s about Republican p a r t y l e a d e r s Richard Nixon, W i l l i a m Knowland, and o the r s , who p a r r i e d f o r power w i t h i n t h e pa r ty aga ins t Reagan during h i s Ca l i fo rn i a years .

It is i n h i s d i scuss ion of h i s work wi th t h e Reagan 1966 guberna tor ia l campaign, and t h e t r a n s i t i o n per iod of ~ e a g a n ' s governorship through 1967, t h a t Hume e luc ida t e s h i s philosophy of t h e p a r t y and par ty adherents i n ac t ion ; and t h e need f o r e f f i c i e n c y i n s t a t e government o v e r a l l and adequate personnel t o i n s u r e t h a t e f f i c i ency . Hume c r e d i t s himself w i th t h e establ ishment of what in formal ly became known as t h e "loaned execut ive program" i n which advisors t o t h e new governor sought out management personnel from var ious Ca l i fo rn i a f i rms t o f i l l key appoin t ive vacancies i n t h e Reagan adminis t ra t ion . Hume concludes t h a t t hese advisors were looking f o r "people who would do a good job ... and who were phi losophica l ly dedicated t o a p r i v a t e en t e rp r i s e , conserva- t i v e , p ro f i t -o r i en t ed soc i e ty . " Hume comments f u r t h e r on the theme of e f f i c i ency i n s t a t e government wi th notes on t h e success of t he Governor's Survey on Eff ic iency and Cost Control , t he 1967-68 t a s k f o r c e which became a hallmark of Governor ~ e a g a n ' s i n t e r e s t i n ways t o t r i m unnecessary s t a t e expenses and operat ions.

I n his observat ions on Ca l i fo rn i a p o l i t i c a l campaigns and e l e c t i o n s , Hume presents the c r i t i c a l theme of l o c a l involvement and volunteer organiza t ion t o supplement t h e formal pa r ty s t r u c t u r e . (Storrs echoes t h i s theme i n her own o r a l h i s t o r y interview.) Fur ther , i n r e f l e c t i n g on fund r a i s i n g , Hume remarks t h a t t h a t is d i f f e r e n t i n t h e northern p a r t of t h e Golden S t a t e , e spec i a l ly i n San Francisco: "You have many people he re who have i n h e r i t e d wealth ...[ and who] a r e not prepared t o be a s aggress ive i n suppor t ing a con t rove r s i a l program as

some who have earned t h e i r wealth.. Also, many people with i n h e r i t e d wealth seem t o have a g u i l t complex about t h e i r i nhe r i t ance and f e e l t h a t they have an ob l iga t ion t o support l i b e r a l causes.''

Throughout t h e in terv iew, Hume keeps t h e importance of the development of p o l i t i c a l philosophy before him. I n Reagan's case , th is development progressed from h i s i d e a s generated whi le speaking f o r General E l e c t r i c , through h i s years a s governor, and culminated i n t h e presidency.

I n "Pa r t i e s , P o l i t i c s - , and Pr inc ip le : It's a t t h e Local Level," Eleanor Ring S t o r r s chronic les the. twin themes of her philosophy, about the co r rec t r o l e of women i n p o l i t i c s . (as volunteers working on the f o c a l l e v e l ) and he r support f o r Ronald -Reagan a s a po l i t i . ca1 and philosophi.ca1 leader ( s t a r t i n g w i t h h i s e a r l i e s t a f f i l i a t i o n with Republicans as a t e n t a t i v e guberna tor ia l candidate supported by Ci t izens f o r Construct ive Action).

Within S t o r r s ' s d iscuss ion of h e r own e f f o r t s i n t h e Republican par ty a r e t h e h i s t o r y of operat ions i n San Diego County (both t h e Women's Federat ion and t h e main county s t r u c t u r e ) , as w e l l as no te s on the 1964, 1968, and 1972 Republican n a t i o n a l conventions, and on t h e Republican National Committee. S tor rs ' s involvement i n l o c a l p o l i t i c s began with her oppos i t ion t o t h e cons t ruc t ion of t h e con t rove r s i a l Coronado Bridge i n 1957-1958. A s a r e s u l t of t h i s a c t i o n , s h e became a member of t h e Coronado Republican Women's Club, and s o of t h e San Diego County Federat ion of Republican Women. A s with Hume, S t o r r s r e f e r s t o o t h e r notable Ca l i fo rn ia p o l i t i c o s ; she confirms the importance of Luci le Hosmer and Marjorie Benedict among t h e leadersh ip of Republican women around t h e s t a t e . Readers may b e i n t e r e s t e d t o s e e Hosmer's and Benedict 's own in terv iews i n t h e Ca l i fo rn ia Women P o l i t i c a l Leaders s e r i e s , a l s o a p ro jec t of t h e Regional Oral History Office.

A s p a r t of h e r no te s on Republican n a t i o n a l p o l i t i c s , S t o r r s r e c a l l s he r p a r t i c i p a t i o n i n t h e 1972 n a t i o n a l convention. I n ea r ly summer t h e convention w a s moved from i ts scheduled s i t e of San Diego t o M i a m i Beach, F lor ida , because of a s e n s i t i v e p o l i t i c a l s i t u a t i o n with a l l ega t ions of corpora te cont r ibut ions t o t h e f i r s t s i t e . Although t h i s move absolved he r of major r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r convention p lans , S t o r r s immediately s tepped i n t o assist na t iona l c o d t t e e - woman from F lo r ida Paula Hawkins, l a t e r Senator Hawkins. A s wi th many of h e r p o l i t i c a l anecdotes, S t o r r s combines humorous s i d e l i g h t s with remarks on s i g n i f i c a n t a c t i v i t i e s . While f i n i s h i n g last-minute d e t a i l s on the convention f l o o r , Hawkins and S t o r r s were t r e a t e d t o Ethe l Merman's r e h e a r s a l of h e r performance f o r t h e de legates : "Paula and I both s a t down and t h e r e s h e sang f o r an hour o r so--you know, ' l e t ' s do i t again, a l i t t l e f a s t e r here , a l i t t l e slow t h e r e l . . . t h e n both of us got up and j u s t clapped l i k e crazy!" In the next paragraph, S t o r r s r e c a l l s represent ing Governor Reagan a t a la te -n ight meeting of Republican governors who were d iscuss ing convention platform i s s u e s ; she took a conservat ive s tance . This w a s one of many ins tances where S t o r r s s tood i n f o r Reagan, "because we have always thought along t h e same l i n e s , you know what I mean?"

Also included i n t h i s volume is an in te rv iew with Jack Wrather, "On Friendship, P o l i t i c s , and Government." Wrather remembers his work and support f o r Ronald Reagan from t h e y e a r s when they were f r i e n d s w h i l e bo th worked i n t he movie i n d u s t r y i n Los Angeles. I n t h i s summary sketch., Mrather begins w i t h d inner pa r ty d i scuss ions held s h o r t l y a f t e r Barry Goldwater, S r . ' s de fea t i n h i s 1964 p r e s i d e n t i a l campaign: ll[W]e'd s i t and d i scuss what t h e h e l l happened t o Barry, wky, and how t e r r i f i c t h a t commercial [ t h e famous speech "A Time f o r Choosing1'] was of Ron's." He r e l a t e s how these f r i e n d s , some of whom l a t e r became t h e k i t chen cab ine t , then encouraged Reagan t o run f o r governor. As do t h e o t h e r interviewees i n t h i s volume, and many i n t h i s s e r i e s , Wrather keeps h i s eyes focused on Reagan i n his cu r ren t p o s i t i o n . He r e c a l l s Reagan's n a t i o n a l e f f o r t s wh i l e viewing t h e Nixon, Ford, and Car te r p r e s i d e n t i a l nominations and -administrat ions i n r e t ro spec t , Wrather concludes t h i s s e c t i o n of t h e in te rv iew by drawing a s t r a i g h t l i n e from the 1966 guberna- t o r i a l campaign t o t h e p r e s i d e n t i a l t r a n s i t i o n i n 1980; h e inc ludes himself among those who have been f a i t h f u l t o Reagan's goals and e f f o r t s over these years .

Besides his discussi.on o f a a s t i n g R e a g a n i n h i s campaign, Wrather thought- f u l l y considers his candida te ' s i deas about government, economics, and proper business p r i n c i p l e s , beginning wi th 1966: 'We thought they were t h e r i g h t ideas Iwhich Reagan had] and t h a t they would win t h e day because the o the r ideas t h a t we were f i g h t i n g were such dormant, a r cha ic kinds of i deas i n regard t o government f inances and f i s c a l p o l i c y and everything ... We happened t o be c o r r e c t , and t h a t was tha t . " And, f u r t h e r on, "...Ron himself is a very good businessman, a good business brain. . .he understands t h a t ...y ou c a n ' t spend more money than you've got very long without going broke, un le s s you've got a r i c h uncle who's suppor t ing you, l i k e t h e government has been suppor t ing everybody."

An in te rv iew wi th T i r so d e l Junco concludes t h i s volume. Del Junco cme from Cuba t o t h e United S t a t e s around 1960;- he now maintains a busy medical p r a c t i c e i n Los Angeles. He too came t o know Reagan from t h e 1964 Goldwater campaign, and t h e i r acquaintance developed during d e l Junco's y e a r s i n t h e p a r t y ' s h ie rarchy which included chairmanship of t h e Republican S t a t e Cen t r a l Committee i n 1981-82. I n t h e in te rv iew d e l Junco d iscusses t h e p a r t y ' s i nc reas ing e f f ec t iveness i n r a i s i n g campaign funds, and i n g e t t i n g Republicans t o vote . He a l s o n o t e s h i s own success i n bu i ld ing a s t r o n g Hispanic presence wi th in the p a r t y , inc luding the establ ishment of the Hispanic Council.

Del Junco sha re s t h e enthusiasm f o r Ronald Reagan, his philosophy and leadersh ip , t h a t t h e o the r interviewees i n this volume express. While d e l Junco focuses pr imar i ly on Reagan a s p re s iden t and t h e leadersh ip which h e has brought t o t h i s pos i t i on , d e l Junco a l s o c r e d i t s Reagan wi th leading t h e Republican p a r t y i n Ca l i fo rn i a t o a h igher , more u n i f i e d plane. "He has been our l eade r , " d e l Junco remarks t o t h e in te rv iewer , "but he has not been a con t rove r s i a l l eade r . He has been a c l ean , f a i t h f u l l eade r , upfront a t a l l times . l1

A s p e c i a l p r i v i l e g e which o r a l h i s t o r y i n p o l i t i c a l documentation presents l i e s i n t h e opportuni ty t o d iscuss " the g r e a t man," i n both theory and person, with those who worked around him--in e a r l i e r ca ree r s , i n campaigns and previous adminis t ra t ions , i n admiring f r i endsh ips and i n a d v e r s a r i a l r e l a t i o n s h i p s . This volume samples t hose who worked wi th Reagan i n h i s Ca l i fo rn i a years . Other volumes i n t h e Ronald Reagan Gubernatorial Era s e r i e s con t r ibu te addi- t i o n a l p o r t r a i t s of Reagan himself and of those persons who worked wi th him, o r who p a r t i c i p a t e d i n i s s u e s c r i t i c a l t o t h e 1966-1974 period i n Ca l i fo rn i a s t a t e government h i s to ry .

There a r e a few no te s t o record regarding the procedures involved i n t h e conduct of t hese in te rv iews . Jaquel in Hume was interviewed on 26 January 1982, Eleanor Ring S t o r r s on 15 February 1983, Jack Wrather on 30 September 1982, and T i r s o d e l Junco on 30 November 1982. The in te rv iewers s e n t s e s s ion o u t l i n e s t o t hese interviewees ahead of t ime, and re turned t h e roughly e d i t e d in t e rv i ew t r a n s c r i p t s t o them f o r t h e i r review and co r rec t ions . The i n t e r - viewees va r i ed i n t h e i r approaches t o t h i s review process: Hume, Wrather and d e l Junco made very few e d i t o r i a l changes i n t h e i r t r a n s c r i p t s , whi le S t o r r s answered add i t i ona l ques t ions and c l ea red up s e v e r a l vague passages.

Sarah Sharp Interviewer-Editor

F

12 March 1984 Regional Oral History Off ice 486 The Bancroft Library Universi ty of Ca l i fo rn i a a t Berkeley

Regional Oral History Office The Bancroft L ibrary

Univers i ty of Ca l i fo rn i a Berkeley, Ca l i fo rn i a

Government History Documentation P ro jec t Ronald Reagan Gubernatorial Era

Jaque l i n Hume

BASIC ECONOMICS AND THE BODY POLITIC: VIEWS OF A NORTHERN CALIFORNIA REAGAN LOYALIST

An Interview Conducted by GabrielZe Morris

i n 1982

Copyright ,@ 1984 by t h e Regents of t h e Universi ty of Ca l i fo rn i a

TABLE OF CONTENTS -- Jaquel in Hume

I PERSONAL BACKGROUND, POLITICAL CONCERNS Building a Business in^ Food Processing Support f o r Nixon and Eisenhower i n t h e 1950s The Goldwater 1964 Campaign Northern and Southern Ca l i fo rn i a P o l i t i c a l A t t i t udes

I1 ELECTING RONALD REAGAN GOVERNOR Get t ing t o Know t h e Candidate Building Support The 1966 Campaign George Chr is topher ' s Primary Race

I11 CLEANING HOUSE FOR THE NEW ADMINISTRATION Work of t h e Appointments Committee Task Force on Government Eff iciency and Economy

I V OBSERVING REAGAN AS GOVERNOR: PRESIDENTIAL POTENTIAL Serving a s Chief of Protocol Staying i n Touch wi th t h e Governor's Off ice Republican Par ty Matters Ideas from t h e General ~ l e c t r i c Years

TAPE GUIDE

INDEX

I PERSONAL BACKGROUND; POLITICAL CONCERNS

[Interview 1: January 26, 1982]##

Building a Business i n Food Processing

Morris: I would l i k e t o begin by asking you a l i t t l e b i t about your personal

background. The name Hume is an i n t e r e s t i n g , unusual one. As I

asked you when I wrote, I wonder i f you a r e r e l a t e d t o J a m s Mume of

Wells Fargo Express ?

Hum : No, I am no t . I have no near Hume r e l a t i v e s i n Cal i forn ia . I th ink

t h a t many Humes i n t h i s country a re descended from a Hum who came t o

America i n about 1740 bu t they have spread out q u i t e widely. My

f a t h e r was an only son of an only son, so t h a t I have no c l o s e r e l a -

t i v e s on my f a t h e r ' s s ide .

Morris: Did your f a t h e r come to Ca l i fo rn ia?

Hume: My f a t h e r and mother moved t o ~ a l i f o r n i a i n 1920. We l i v e d i n

Pasadena. Father remained the re u n t i l h i s death i n 1950.

Morris: Then you, your se l f , grew up i n southern Ca l i fo rn ia? .

H ume : Yes, a f t e r t h e age of 15. My ea r ly years were i n Indianapolis where

##This symbol i n d i c a t e s t h a t a tape o r a segment of a tape has begun o r ended. For a guide t o the tapes s e e page 50.

Hum : Father and Mother had been born. I was a c t u a l l y born i n Michigan when

my mother was the re one summer.

Morris: Then your educa t ion was i n southern Ca l i fo rn i a?

Hume : No. It was i n t h e e a s t . I went t o P h i l l i p s Exeter Academy i n New

Hampshire and then t o Princeton. Af t e r t h a t I went t o Harvard

Business School.

Morris: How did you happen t o l o c a t e here i n t h e Bay Area?

Hume: My bro ther , William Hume, and I decided we would l i k e t o s t a r t our

own business . Af t e r examining many p o s s i b i l i t i e s w e chose t h e

business of dehydrat ing vegetables . With t h e a i d of a chemical

engineer we developed a new process i n a labora tory we s e t up i n t h e

basement of our f a t h e r ' s garage i n Pasadena. I n t he summer of 1933

we went t o Vacavi l le t o t r y ou t t h e dehydration process using a prune

dryer which we were a b l e t o r e n t . The process w a s commercially

s a t i s f a c t o r y s o we continued t o r e n t t h e prune dryer s e v e r a l yea r s .

La ter we bought property i n Vacavi l le and we s t i l l have an important

p l a n t there . I t was our headquarters u n t i l we moved t o San Francisco

a f t e r t h e Second World War.

Morris: So your t i e s a r e with t h e b a s i c a g r i c u l t u r e indus t ry here i n Cali-

fo rn i a?

Hume : Yes, and i n o t h e r s t a t e s , although we a r e processors and n o t growers

of a g r i c u l t u r a l products . We began dehydrat ing onion and g a r l i c i n

Vacavi l le and processed these vegetables almost exc lus ive ly u n t i l

a f t e r t h e Second World War. Because of t h e l a rge dehydration

capaci ty we had c rea t ed to s a t i s f y wartime demand, we t r i e d our hands

Hume: a t s eve ra l o the r vegetables i n t h e l a t e 40s, b u t f i n a l l y went back

t o onion and g a r l i c exc lus ive ly . Accordingly dehydrating t h e s e two

vegetables has been the business of Basic Vegetable Products, Inc . ,

s i n c e we s t a r t e d t h e company almost f i f t y years ago.

I n 1955 we s e t up a new company i n Idaho t o make a dehydrated

pota to powder. That company is t h e American Pota to Company. I n

1974-75 we merged Basic and Amrican i n t o AMPCO Foods, Inc . Morris: Was i t your business concerns t h a t f i r s t l e d you t o become a c t i v e i n

p o l i t i c s and publ ic a£ f a i r s ?

Hume: No, I was d i s tu rbed by the kind of governmnt we had i n our country,

p a r t i c u l a r l y a t t h e n a t i o n a l l e v e l , and wanted t o s e e i f I could do

something t o improve i t s q u a l i t y . I a l s o was very upset by the

Roosevelt program which I f e l t was s o c i a l i z i n g many a c t i v i t i e s i n

our country. I hoped t h a t I could make some con t r ibu t ion toward

r eve r s ing t h i s t rend.

Morris: A s e a r l y a s t h e 1930s?

Hume: No, I became completely d i s i l l u s i o n e d when Roosevelt ran f o r a t h i r d

term i n 1940. You could say t h a t my p o l i t i c a l conservatism da te s

from t h a t e l e c t i o n s i n c e I voted f o r Roosevelt i n 1932 and 1936.

Morris: Because of t h e economic condi t ions?

Hum: Yes, I hoped h e would improve condit ions.

Morris: In 1940 the Ca l i fo rn i a s t a t e economy was i n p r e t t y bad shape i f I

remember c o r r e c t l y . That is when Culbert Olson was governor. You

were not p a r t i c u l a r l y involved i n s t a t e p o l i t i c s ?

Support f o r Nixon and Eisenhower i n t he 1950s

Hume: No, I d id no t take s i g n i f i c a n t p a r t i n p o l i t i c a l a c t i v i t i e s u n t i l

I guess, t h e Nixon campaign. I m t him when h e was running f o r U.S . Senator i n 1950 and was q u i t e impressed.

Morris: This i s when h e r a n aga ins t Helen Gahagan Douglas?

Hum : Yes, t h a t is r i g h t .

Morris : W a s your support f o r Nixon because you were concerned with Mrs.

Douglas?

Hume : Yes, t h a t was one reason. I a l s o thought Nixon was a very a b l e young

man and had done a remarkably good job i n uncovering communist

a c t i v i t y t h a t was being very harmful t o our country.

Morris: A t t h a t po in t i n 1950 were you working through t h e Republican Pa r ty

o r was i t an ad hoc Nixon e f f o r t ?

Hume : I suppose i t was an ad hoc e f f o r t . I have always been more candida te

o r i en t ed than I have been party o r i en t ed .

Morris: Was the re a nor thern Ca l i fo rn i a k ind of s t e e r i n g group t h a t you were

p a r t of i n 1950?

Hume : Not i n 1950. I n 1952 I became p a r t of t h e C i t i zens f o r Eisenhower

and had a p r i n c i p a l pos i t i on i n t h e nor thern Ca l i fo rn i a group. I

went t o t h e convention i n Chicago t h a t year and worked wi th t h e

Ci t izens f o r Eisenhower group and wi th Nixon t o promote t h e nomina-

t i o n of Eisenhower r a t h e r than Taf t . This was t h e f i r s t convention

I at tended. I worked q u i t e c lo se ly wi th Nixon, whom I had seen

s e v e r a l tines i n Washington t o d iscuss t he s t r a t e g y our group

should follow.

Hume: In 1954 I went t o Washington a s a deputy head of t h e na t iona l

Ci t izens f o r Eisenhower Congressional Committee. Our committee t r i e d

to e l e c t congressional candidates who were favorable t o Eisenhower.

Morris: A t t h a t poin t was i t primari ly a matter of r a i s i n g enough money so

t h a t t he Eisenhower people could feed i t out t o what they thought

were l i k e l y candidates?

Hume : No. My e f f o r t was n o t d i r ec t ed toward fundra is ing bu t r a t h e r a t

t r y i n g t o ge t good candidates t o run i n various congressional

d i s t r i c t s , candidates who supported Eisenhower's philosophy.

Morris: I n 1954 how did you go about deciding which d i s t r i c t s were l i k e l y ,

d i s t r i c t s to-- ?

Hume: Well, there were perhaps f o r t y d i s t r i c t s where t h e Democrats had been

e l ec t ed by S r y narrow margins i n 1952. There were a l s o q u i t e a

few Republican d i s t r i c t s where the Republican had been e l ec t ed by a

narrow margin. We zeroed i n pr imar i ly on Democratic d i s t r i c t s and

t r i e d t o ge t a s t rong candidate t o run aga ins t t h e incumbent. . Our

committee had money t o he lp these candidates . Then we supported

o the r Republican incumbents who were threatened, provided we approved

of t h e i r philosophy and thought we could he lp them.

Morris: That sounds l i k e the ances tor t o t h e Ca l i fo rn ia Plan which was so

successfu l i n the 60s. Did you have a s t a f f person who was doing

t h e s t a t i s t i c a l research t o pick out t h e d i s t r i c t s and develop--?

Hume: I did a good dea l of t h i s . We had q u i t e a l a rge group of people i n

Washington, b u t they were working more on organizing r a l l i e s and on

fundra is ing and o t h e r a c t i v i t i e s t o promote the candidates whom we

Hume: had chosen. On t h e o t h e r hand I s p e n t a good d e a l o f t ime w i t h t h e

Na t iona l Republican Congress ional Campaign Cormnittee which had re-

markably complete f i l e s on each c o n g r e s s i o n a l d i s t r i c t i n c l u d i n g

p o t e n t i a l c a n d i d a t e s t h e r e who were r a t e d f o r t h e i r weaknesses and

t h e i r s t r e n g t h s . Morris: They had been deve lop ing t h i s f i l e o v e r some p e r i o d o f t i = ?

Hume : Yes, indeed .

Morr is : That is a very s p e c i a l s k i l l . Who was r e s p o n s i b l e f o r b u i l d i n g up

t h a t k ind o f f i l e ?

Hume: I suppose some of t h i s was done by t h e Republican Nat iona l Committee,

i t s e l f , b u t t h e m a j o r i t y had been done by t h e s t a f f of t h e Congres-

s i o n a l Campaign Committee.

Morr i s : Did y o u - s u g g e s t that t h i s k i n d o f a n i d e a b e t r i e d i n C a l i f o r n i a

i n r e l a t i o n t o t h e C a l i f o r n i a l e g i s l a t u r e ?

Hume: No, I d i d n o t g e t i n t o t h a t a t a l l . I became q u i t e d i s i l l u s i o n e d i n

1954 w i t h what we were doing. So much of t h e money t h a t had been

r a i s e d f o r o u r committee, amounting t o over $1,000,000, was wasted

on a c t i v i t i e s I thought were n o t going t o h e l p t h e e l e c t i o n of good

cand ida tes . Such a l a r g e amount was wasted on overhead b e f o r e t h e

a c t u a l campaigns began t h a t ve ry l i t t l e was l e f t t o g ive t o t h e

c a n d i d a t e s . A f t e r abou t f i v e months i n Washington and two o r t h r e e

months b e f o r e the e l e c t i o n I l e f t t h e Washington o p e r a t i o n and came

home.

The Goldwater 1964 Campaign

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

I did not t ake any p a r t i n p o l i t i c s again u n t i l Goldwater came on

'the horizon. He t y p i f i e d the p o l i t i c a l philosophy of which I

approved and accordingly I began to support him.

Why d id you s k i p Nixon's campaign i n 1960?

This came a t a time when I was tak ing no p a r t i n p o l i t i c s . Also, by

t h i s time I was no longer too e n t h u s i a s t i c about Nixon.

Did you f e e l t h a t Goldwater and h i s people had t i g h t e r cont ro l of

expenses during h i s campaign than Eisenhower?

Money r a i s i n g f o r Goldwater was much more d i f f i c u l t than f o r Eisen-

hower. He had no funds t o waste. I was t h e Northern Ca l i fo rn ia

Finance Chairman f o r Goldwater and i n add i t ion r e a l l y organized t h e

northern Ca l i fo rn ia p o l i t i c a l a c t i v i t y . A t t he beginning I knew of

only one o the r Goldwater suppor ter . Af ter a few weeks we gradual ly

found o the r s .

Who was your fellow--?

He was named Robert S t e e l and was a member of t h e l o c a l Republican

Central Committee.

I n San Francisco?

Yes.

Morris: You mean i n 1963-64?

H ume : I think i t must have been 1963 o r 1964.

Morris: There were only two of you a t one po in t who were w i l l i n g t o s t and

up f o r Goldwater?

Hume : Yes.

Morris: Why was t h a t do you suppose?

Hume: Well I found t h a t Rockefeller had s e n t an a b l e r ep resen ta t ive around

t h i s p a r t of Ca l i fo rn ia t o t a l k t o t h e heads of business and the

heads of t h e banking f r a t e r n i t y . He had e i t h e r go t t en them t o agree

to support Rockefel ler o r agree a t l e a s t not t o oppose him. As a

r e s u l t when I t r i e d t o f i n d prominent northern Cal i forn ians t o jo in

the Goldwater movement I found t h a t I had been p r e t t y we l l foreclosed

from g e t t i n g support from any of t h e normal sources of funds.

Morris: He had already ta lked t o the people you would normally t a l k t o on

something l i k e t h i s ? How did h e manage to s t e a l the march on you?

Hume: Rockefe l le r ' s representa t ive was a b l e to speak t o bankers and

businessmen wi th an au thor i ty which I completely lacked. He was

m r e knowledgeable and a l s o b e t t e r equipped f o r h i s job than I was.

H i s representa t ive was an a t t r a c t i v e and a b l e man whose job was t o

organize northern Cal i forn ians f o r Rockefel ler . I assume he

probably d id t h e same th ing i n a t h e r p a r t s of t h e country. He was

a b l e to s e a l o f f a l a r g e po r t ion of community leaders from support-

ing Goldwater even though they were i n favor of t he philosophy

Goldwater advocated.

Morris: He mved much e a r l i e r than you were used t o g e t t i n g s tar ted--?

Hume: Well, I did not have any background on how to handle a p r e s i d e n t i a l

campaign i n northern Ca l i fo rn ia . I was s t a r t i n g of f from sc ra t ch .

Morris: I see . Even though you had done considerable campaign organizing

f o r Eisenhower?

Hume: I n the Eisenhower program we were t ry ing t o work i n the pre-primary

period t o g e t a s many people was we could t o support Eisenhower.

Hume : W e p a r t i c u l a r l y t r i e d t o g e t t h e [Ea r l ] Warren d e l e g a t e s t o - ag r ee t h a t

they would suppo r t Eisenhower i f Warren r e l e a s e d t o them. I went

around no r the rn C a l i f o r n i a t o s e e most of t h e Warren de l ega t e s t o

a sk them t o ag r ee t o become Eisenhower suppo r t e r s i f they were

r e l e a s e d by Warren.

Morris: Were you i n touch w i th B i l l [Will iam F. 1 Knowland a t a l l ?

Hume : Yes, c e r t a i n l y , I w a s i n touch w i th him, a l though I saw much less

of Knowland t han Nixon, s i n c e Knowland wanted t h e Warren de l ega t e s

t o ag r ee t o suppo r t him o r Ta f t i f they were r e l e a s e d by Warren.

Morris: There w a s some ques t i on a t t h a t point--some of t h e Warren people

have t o l d us t h a t they thought Warren had a f a i r l y good chance i n

1952 i f they could ho ld o f f p a s t t h e f i r s t b a l l o t . There was some

ques t i on o f whether B i l l Knowland helped t h a t e f f o r t o r whether

B i l l Knowland was hoping t h a t he , h imse l f , might end up as a

compromise v i c e - p r e s i d e n t i a l .candidate o r p r e s i d e n t i a l cand ida te .

From t h e people you were i n touch w i th , d i d M r . Knowland have any

p o s s i b i l i t y of emerging as a n a t i o n a l cand ida te?

Hume: I th ink so . Nixon, however, was c o v e r t l y t r y i n g t o g e t t h e Warren

de l ega t e s t o ag r ee t o back Eisenhower wi thout Knowland knowing

about t h i s .

Morris: Why w a s i t t h a t you f e l t t h a t t h e Nixon f o r c e s were a b e t t e r pos-

s i b i l i t y i n t h a t case?

Hume : The C i t i z e n s f o r Eisenhower had no ties t o a p o l i t i c a l p a r t y and

were only t r y i n g t o h e l p Eisenhower. Accordingly they were good

people f o r Nixon t o use.

Hume : I knew Nixon q u i t e we l l and be l ieved h e was an exce l l en t adviser on

what t o do p o l i t i c a l l y . He, of course , knew Ca l i fo rn i a p o l i t i c s

wel l because h e had been e l ec t ed U.S. Senator i n 1950. He was a

potent f i g u r e , no t s o s t r o n g a s Knowland perhaps, bu t a very poten t

f i g u r e and a l s o a g rea t Eisenhower suppor te r . We always f e l t t h a t

Knowland probably favored Ta f t r a t h e r than Eisenhower, bu t favored

Knowland f i r s t . I found him d i f f i c u l t t o work wi th .

Morris : I gather t h a t your f e e l i n g was t h a t a conservat ive approach t o

government was b e t t e r . I thought M r . Taf t was more conservat ive

than M r . Eisenhower . Hum : I supported Eisenhower r a t h e r than Ta f t and l i v e d t o r e g r e t i t very

much. I suppose t h i s was p a r t of my developnaent. I came t o t h e

conclusion when I was i n Washington i n 1954 t h a t I had made a

mistake. One reason I backed away from cont inuing t o support

Eisenhower was t h a t h e approved a very l a r g e f e d e r a l d e f i c i t . I

f e l t t h a t h e was not car ry ing o u t t h e swing away from t h e Roosevelt

New Deal programs t h a t I thought was needed f o r our country.

Morri;s: Was i t t h e s o c i a l programs of Roosevelt?

Hum : Both s o c i a l and spending. They a r e , of course, r e l a t e d . I was

a l s o opposed t o s o c i a l i s t i c programs l i k e the TVA.

Morris: How about t he a spec t of increased governmnt r egu la t ion of

business ?

Hume : I do no t be l i eve t h a t was much of a f a c t o r i n shaping my opinion.

I d id no t , however, approve of government i n t rud ing i t s e l f i n t o

t h e market p lace any more than was necessary t o e s t a b l i s h r u l e s t o

make su re t h a t t h e economic game was played f a i r l y .

Morris: That c e r t a i n l y has been a s u b j e c t f o r much debate over t h e years .

So you were .involved wi th M r . Goldwater before the convention.

Then did you s t a y a c t i v e i n h i s campaign f o r t h e presidency?

Hume : Oh, yes. I was a de lega te f o r Goldwater and at tended t h e conven-

t i on , and was q u i t e a c t i v e i n i t . I do no t remember whether I was

Northern Ca l i fo rn ia chairman a f t e r t h e convention, b u t I was

c e r t a i n l y a very a c t i v e f i g u r e i n the Goldwater program i n our

p a r t of t h e s t a t e . That was the way I got t o know some of t h e .

ind iv iduals i n southern Ca l i fo rn ia who l a t e r became p r inc ipa l

supporters of Reagan.

Northern and Southern Ca l i fo rn ia P o l i t i c a l At t i tudes

Morris: I had wondered i f i n the vegetable processing business you might

have had an opportuni ty t o g e t t o know some of t h e people i n

southern Ca l i fo rn ia?

Hume : No, I, however, had many f r i ends i n southern Ca l i fo rn ia s i n c e I

had l i v e d the re f o r a long t i m e . But t h e people who were the heads

of t h e Goldwater program i n southern Ca l i fo rn ia were a l s o t h e

s ta tewide heads of t h e Goldwater f o r Pres ident e f f o r t . Neverthe-

l e s s , I was ab le t o run things ppet ty independently i n northern

Ca l i fo rn ia inc luding r a i s i n g funds.

Morris: Some of those people, Holmes T u t t l e and Henry Sa lva to r i , had no t

come to Ca l i fo rn ia u n t i l t h e '30s o r '40s and a f t e r you were

p r e t t y much up i n nor thern Cal i forn ia .

Hume :

Morris :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Yes, and I had not known them be fo re 1964. Then we got t o know one

another during t h e Goldwater campaign.

There is a l o t made, i n t a l k i n g about p o l i t i c s i n Ca l i fo rn i a ,

about t h e nor th versus t h e south. Have you found t h a t t o b e a

f a c t o r i n developing some of t hese s ta tewide programs?

I was always jea lous of t h e sou th ' s a b i l i t y t o r a t s e money, and

came t o t h e conclusion t h a t we could r a i s e about a t h i r d a s much

he re a s they could r a i s e i n southern Ca l i fo rn i a .

Really?

That i s s t i l l t r u e today. That is about t he way i t goes.

Why i s t h a t ?

There is more money the re and more people prepared t o give and

more enthusiasm.

Your sense is, a s i d e from t h e f a c t t h a t f o r t h e l a s t t e n years

there has been more populat ion i n southern Ca l i fo rn i a , they a r e

more l i k e l y t o become a c t i v e in--?

There a r e a l s o many more conserva t ives ; t h i s is a p r e t t y l i b e r a l

community here .

I n terms of money, I th ink of San Francisco a s being kind of t he

core of t h e banking, insurance, and money business of t he s t a t e .

Does t h a t no t outweigh the a i r p l a n e cons t ruc t ion , movie, and o i l

mney i n t h e south?

No, no t even remotely i n terms of t he a v a i l a b i l i t y of funds t o

support anything I know on a s t a t ewide b a s i s .

The people i n t h e South a r e w i l l i n g t o put t h e i r money where t h e i r

mouths a r e ?

Hurne: Yes, and it is much easier to get people who are prepared to work

hard on a conservative, political cause in the south than it is in

the north. It is difficult to find conservative individuals in the

north.

Morris: That is interesting. Why do you suppose that is so? Have you given

that matter any thought?

Hume: I think San Francisco has always been a liberal town. It has been

a town that was rather labor-dominated. You have many people here

who have inherited wealth. I think individuals with inherited wealth

frequently are not prepared to be as aggressive in supporting a

controversial program as some who have earned their wealth. Also,

many people with inherited wealth seem to have a guilt complex about

their inheritance.and feel that they have an obligation to society to

support liberal causes.

Morris: That sounds like a very sound evaluation of the situation.

11 ,ELECTING RONALD REAGAN GOVERNOR

G e t t i n g t o Know t h e Candidate

Morr is : L e t ' s t u r n t o M r . Reagan. You f i r s t m e t him i n 1965 o r s o ?

Hume : I d i d n o t know him a t t h e t ime of h i s e x c e l l e n t speech f o r Goldwater.

That speech was a p r i n c i p a l r eason t h e Goldwater campaign was a b l e

t o s u r v i v e s i n c e i t r a i s e d a g r e a t d e a l o f money. Three i n d i v i d u a l s

I had g o t t e n t o know w e l l i n t h e Goldwater campaign, namely, Henry

S a l v a t o r i , Cy Rubel, who was t h e head o f Union O i l , and Holmes

T u t t l e , were e n t h u s i a s t i c about Ronald Reagan. I had g o t t e n t o know

S a l v a t o r i q u i t e w e l l and I a l s o knew Holmes T u t t l e f a i r l y w e l l . I

knew Cy Rube1 on ly s l i g h t l y . These t h r e e c a l l e d on Ronald Reagan

t o a s k him i f he would be a c a n d i d a t e f o r governor. They promised

t h a t they would suppor t him f i n a n c i a l l y i f h e r a n . I b e l i e v e t h a t

a f t e r c o n s i d e r a b l e d i s c u s s i o n he agreed t h a t he would c o n s i d e r be ing

a cand ida te .

Reagan f e l t he should t a l k t o someone i n n o r t h e r n C a l i f o r n i a

and asked t h e t h r e e whom he should s e e . They t e l l me t h a t they

sugges ted h e should c a l l on me. He d i d , and we t a l k e d f o r an hour

Hume : o r two i n San Francisco. A f t e r t h i s conversa t ion I was e n t h u s i a s t i c

about Ronald Reagan's p o t e n t i a l a s a candida te f o r governor and

agreed t h a t I would support h i s campaign. I o f f e r e d t o a r r ange f o r

him t o meet t h e conserva t ives I knew i n no r the rn Ca l i fo rn i a . The

f i r s t meeting I arranged was a b r e a k f a s t a t t ended by seven of us

who had been a c t i v e i n t h e Goldwater campaign. They were a l l sub-

s t a n t i a l l o c a l c i t i z e n s , and they were t h e nucleus on which w e b u i l t

t h e Reagan campaign i n no r the rn Ca l i fo rn i a .

Morris: Do you r e c a l l who i t was you i n v i t e d t o t h a t b r e a k f a s t meeting?

Hume : One was Sherman Chickering. Others were M r s . Marshal l Madison and I

Malcolm Cravens. I b e l i e v e I a l s o had Gardiner Johnson and Leland

Kaise r .

Mo.rris: Would you have brought someone l i k e Cap Weinberger i n t o a meeting

l i k e t h a t ? H e had been a c t i v e i n t h e pa r ty .

Hume : W e d i d n o t regard Cap a s a conserva t ive a t t h a t time. I n t h e

causes which h e supported on h i s r ad io program he was on t h e l i b e r a l

s i d e q u i t e o f t en .

Morris: You were looking f o r conserva t ives r a t h e r than t h a t s o r t of broad

Republican--?

Hume : Y e s . For m e t o g e t people t o suppor t Ron i t was necessary t h a t they

f e e l comfortable wi th h i s philosophy. I could n o t very w e l l say ,

"Here is a f i n e man who w i l l make an e x c e l l e n t candida te and I want

.you t o suppor t him. "

Morris: What kind of t h ings d i d you and he t a l k about when h e came up t o

see you when he was t e s t i n g t h e i d e a ?

Hume : I th ink we ta lked about h i s philosophy of t h e r e l a t i o n s h i p of

government t o t h e ind iv idua l , t h e r e l a t i onsh ip he v i sua l i zed of t h e

f e d e r a l government t o t h e government of t he s t a t e , and t h e kind of

people he would seek ou t i n f i l l i n g var ious o f f i c e s i n t h e s t a t e .

I was a l s o i n t e r e s t e d i n h i s view on economics.

Morris: You ta lked about t h a t a s e a r l y a s when he was exploring t h e possi- n

b i l i t y of running?

Hume : I b e l i e v e so. A l l t he se a r e extremely important i n determining t h e

kind of governor o r pub l i c o f f i c i a l an ind iv idua l is l i k e l y t o be.

The kind of people he i s going t o b r ing i n t o the government t o

a s s i s t him is a l s o most important.

Morris: Did you r a i s e t hese sub jec t s o r d id he r a i s e them?

Hume : I cannot t e l l you.

Morris: What was t h e concern p a r t i c u l a r l y about what kind of people should

be brought i n t o t h e s t a f f ?

Hume : We wanted people who were not pr imar i ly p o l i t i c i a n s . We wanted

ind iv idua l s who were dedicated t o a philosophy of having a s e f f i c i e n t

and e f f e c t i v e a government a s poss ib le . We d id not want i nd iv idua l s

t o be employed because of p o l i t i c a l support bu t r a t h e r have them

chosen f o r t h e i r qua l i t y . We a l s o wanted ind iv idua l s who bel ieved

our country should have l e s s government r a t h e r than more and who

had sound f i s c a l ideas . Af t e r a l l , t h e s t a t e was i n a s e r ious

f i n a n c i a l condi t ion . [Governor Edmund G . ] Brown [Sr . ] had been

balancing t h e budget by gimmicks, such a s speeding up t h e co l lec-

t i o n of t a x e s , which had only a one-time e f f e c t . Spending i n t h e

s t a t e was running $1,000,000 a day over income.

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Did M r . Reagan b r ing somebody wi th him t o t h e meeting i n your o f f i c e ?

No.

H e j u s t hopped on a plane and came up he re t o m e e t you?

I guess so.

What appealed t o you about him? How did he s t r i k e you on t h a t

i n i t i a l f i r s t - - ?

Very appeal ing. I thought h e was j u s t a s sound a s h e could be.

H e advocated t h e p o l i t i c a l and economic philosophy of which I ap-

proved and he seemed t o have t h e a b i l i t y t o express i t even b e t t e r

than Goldwater.

What kind of response d id you g e t from t h e b reak fa s t group t h a t you

i n v i t e d t o t h a t meeting?

They w e r e e n t h u s i a s t i c , a l l of them. A l l d id work f o r him.

Had you been, kind o f , looking f o r a candidate t o support and develop?

Not a c t i v e l y , I would say, no.

But you recognized someone wi th p o t e n t i a l ?

Y e s .

!I /I

Was your sense t h a t M r . Reagan was going t o go ahead and run f o r

o f f i c e ?

No. I hoped he would. I do n o t t h ink he made up h i s mind u n t i l

a f t e r he had spent a f a i r amount of t i m e going about t he s t a t e and

had some sense of t h e a v a i l a b i l i t y of money t o support him.

Building Support

Hume :

Hume :

Morris: Your sense i s t h a t he was doing t h i s on h i s own. H e d i d n o t have

somebody sugges t ing t o whom he might t a l k i n t h i s p re l iminary

sounding?

I t h i n k he used i n d i v i d u a l s t o make sugges t ions . I suggested names

i n no r the rn C a l i f o r n i a and our f r i e n d s i n sou thern C a l i f o r n i a

suggested sources o f in format ion t h e r e . I am s u r e t h a t he a l s o had

con t ac t s of h i s own.

Morris: When you a r e p u t t i n g t oge the r t h i s k ind of s t a t ewide t h ing , a r e

t h e r e people i n t h e v a l l e y and i n t h e mountain coun t i e s t h a t you

need t o check w i th , too? Can you do i t j u s t w i th San Franc isco and

Los Angeles?

To some ex t en t . You do no t g e t much f i n a n c i a l he lp flowing i n t o t h e

San Francisco a r e a from o u t s i d e t h e a r ea . You do no t even g e t much

he lp from Oakland. Support comes p r imar i l y from San Francisco and

t h e Peninsula and, t o a l e s s e r e x t e n t , Marin County. Qui te a few

people who had been i n t h e Goldwater campaign, who l i v e d i n Contra

Costa and Alameda a r e a s , we were a b l e t o b r i n g i n t o t h e campaign.

Morris: I n t e r m s o f p u t t i n g t oge the r a campaign, you f e e l you can do i t wi th

good f i n a n c i a l support i n San Francisco and Los Angeles?

Hume : I should say s o , yes .

Morris: I n terms of a c t u a l l y running a campaign, don ' t you need people i n

a l l a r e a s o f t h e s t a t e ?

Hurne : Of course you do. You have t o be very s u r e they f e e l t h a t they a r e

a s i g n i f i c a n t p a r t of t h e campaign.

Morris: I understand t h a t has become more d i f f i c u l t a s t h e cos t of campaigns

has r i s e n . Robert Monagan, who was speaker of t h e assembly f o r a

while under Reagan's governorship, commented t h a t a s campaigns

have go t t en more expensive, t h e r e is l e s s work f o r i nd iv idua l s t o do.

Most of t he money goes i n t o media and l e s s i n t o t h e kind of envelope

s t u f f i n g and ind iv idua l contac t t h a t r e q u i r e a l o t of people. Has

t h a t been your experience?

Hume : I cannot comment on t h a t . I am s u r e t h a t media is a heavy campaign

expense. But you s t i l l , a t l e a s t i n any campaigns wi th which I have

been assoc ia ted , need a s t r o n g volunteer organiza t ion i n t h e pre-

c i n c t s t h a t goes around and c a l l s on people to-promote t h e candidate

and arranges a "get out t he vote" program f o r e l e c t i o n time and

checks up on t h i s program on e l e c t i o n day. It is important t o

i n t e r e s t a s many people i n t he p rec inc t s a s poss ib le . In campaigns

wi th which I have been a s soc i a t ed , t h a t work usua l ly is not done

adequately by the Republican organiza t ion . That organiza t ion had

t o be developed by the candidate although t h e Republican organiza-

t i o n would o f f e r some help.

Morris: How about th ings l i k e the Republican Assembly and t h e United

Republicans, d id they t u r n out volunteers?

Hume: The Republican Assembly? I do not b e l i e v e i t was important. I

th ink t h e r e is a conservat ive group here. I cannot t e l l you the

names of t h e var ious groups.

Morris: The Republican Assembly came t o mind because Gardiner Johnson, I

be l i eve , was a c t i v e i n t h a t and had been very a c t i v e i n t h e Goldwater

campaign.

Hume : Gardiner was one of those who came t o my b reak fas t , I th ink .

Morris: Did they a l l s i g n on and work wi th you on the campaign?

Hume : Yes, I th ink t h a t we made ourse lves i n t o a s o r t of s t e e r i n g

commit t ee .

Morris: A t what po in t d id Leland Kaiser come i n ?

Hume : He came i n e a r l y on. He may very we l l have been a t t h i s b reak fas t

too. He was a c t i v e i n t h e Goldwater campaign, and a f i n e worker.

I th ink he probably was a t t h e b reak fas t .

The 1966 Campaign

Morris: Did t h e campaign go about a s you expected i t ?

Hume : We were a l l de l igh ted with Reagan's q u a l i t y a s a campaigner and

found him so much more a b l e than we had an t i c ipa t ed . I w i l l always

remember t h a t we urged him t o s e t up var ious t a sk fo rces t o develop

p o s i t i o n papers f o r him, on the s t a t e parks, highways, pr i son , and

on var ious o t h e r s t a t e problems.

The t h i r d o r fou r th time we had urged t h i s he s a i d , "I want t o

show you my homework.'' He went i n t o h i s bedroom and brought out a

s t a c k of the. r epo r t s put out annual ly by each one of t h e s t a t e

departments. They were very e l abo ra t e documents i n fou r co lo r s and

each gave a l o t of information about what each department did.

He had got ten the r epo r t s going back seve ra l yea r s , and was

l ea rn ing about each department and coming t o h i s own dec is ions about

what h i s pos i t i on should be on t h e i r problems. This was t y p i c a l of

Ron.

Morris: This was l i k e t h e annual r e p o r t s put ou t by t h e Highway Department

and Department of Soc i a l Welfare?

Hume : Yes. These r e p o r t s were under t h e Brown [ ~ r . ] admin i s t r a t i on .

Morris: Somebody had go t t en those f o r him?

Hume : I do no t know how he obtained them, b u t they were h i s beds ide

reading. f l

Morris: Put you t o s l e e p i n a hurry. [ l aughter ]

Hume : Yes. P re s iden t Reagan has always had a phenomenal memory. He simply

does no t f o r g e t something he reads. Also, he is very accu ra t e wi th

f i g u r e s . H i s problem is t h a t sometimes people g ive him f i g u r e s

t h a t a r e n o t accura te . H e w i l l remember t h e f i g u r e s and r e l y on

them.

H e t o l d us dur ing t h e campaign, "You know, I th ink I am going

t o t ake ques t ions from the f l o o r t h e next time I make a speech."

W e s a i d , "Ron, t h a t w i l l be t e r r i b l y dangerous. Brown i s

going t o have a series of expe r t s on d i f f e r e n t s t a t e problems i n t h e

audience and they w i l l a sk you ques t ions t h a t only someone who has

been involved i n a p a r t i c u l a r department could answer properly."

Ron s a i d , "I th ink I am ready t o face t ha t . "

H e d i d and ~ r o w n ' s people d id ask him ques t ions t h a t w e r e j u s t

a s d e t a i l e d a s poss ib le . The way he handled these ques t ions

emphasized h i s memory and t h e homework he had done. H e only missed

a couple of ques t ions . One was t h e l o c a t i o n of t h e E e l River which

he missed by about one hundred m i l e s . Another was an equa l ly unim-

p o r t a n t mat ter . When he answered these ques t ions what he was saying

was be ing recorded by r ep re sen t a t i ve s of Brown.

Hume : He would say , "Oh, you a r e t h e man t h a t i s recording f o r Brown,

a r e n ' t you? Come on up here i n the f r o n t . You want t o g e t t h i s

th ing exact ly." The Brown spy, who hoped he was making a recording

of Ron's speech s e c r e t l y , was most embarrassed when h i s mask was

pul led o f f and he was.on d isp lay tap ing the speech. Ron i s very

s k i l l f u l handling matters of t h i s kind.

This emphasizes an important reason I have been such an

e n t h u s i a s t i c supporter of Ron. He is an extremely ab le ind iv idua l ,

much more so than most people r e a l i z e . This l ack of apprec ia t ion

f o r h i s mental a b i l i t y was a problem when he ran f o r governor and

even more of a problem when he ran f o r pres ident . Most people had

no comprehension t h a t he had such an exce l l en t mind.

George Chris topher ' s Primary Race

Morris: Let me go back a minute t o t h e primaries . Did your northern

Cal i forn ia group have any problems during the primary when George

Christopher, who had been mayor of San Francisco, was a l s o running

f o r t he Republican nomination?

Hume : Of course. It was very d i f f i c u l t g e t t i n g support i n nor thern

Cal i forn ia . I remember one of my good f r i e n d s saying t o me, "Jack,

you a r e not considering support ing t h a t a c t o r when George Christopher

is running f o r governor? What has got ten i n t o you?"

Hume : I s a i d , "Well, I j u s t th ink he would make a considerably b e t t e r

governor than Christopher would."

He said, "You c a n ' t r e a l l y mean t h a t , " and was very s ince re .

Reagan d id make a much b e t t e r governor than Christopher would have.

Since then my f r i e n d has become an e n t h u s i a s t i c Reagan suppor te r .

I n my opinion I th ink he was an exce l l en t governor.

Morris: Did you have any concerns during t h e primary t h a t Chris topher

might indeed g e t t h e nomination?

Hume : Oh, yes. It looked a s though it was going t o be a n ip and tuck race.

I th ink San Francisco was taken by Christopher and probably a f a i r

p a r t of nor thern Cal i forn ia . But Ron won hands down on a broad

s ta tewide bas i s . Christopher was fu r ious and refused t o support

Ron, and d id not support him f o r some time. He f e l t t h a t Ron had

s t o l e n t h e race from him i n some way because t h e r e had been c r i t i c i s m

of Christopher i n connection with a milk scandal--

Morris : Milk pricing--?

Hume : I am not su re about t h e grounds f o r t h e c r i t i c i s m b u t I am s u r e Ron

had nothing t o do with br inging up a mat te r of t h i s kind a s a

campaign i s sue . This is not h i s s t y l e .

Morris: Christopher thought t h a t t h e Reagan people had r a i s e d t h i s ?

Hume : He thought Ron was respons ib le f o r t h i s th ing coming up i n t h e

campaign. Ron was not respons ib le i n any way f o r i t , because Ron

simply does not func t ion t h a t way. He has a g r e a t b e l i e f i n what

he c a l l s t h e Eleventh Commandment: "Never speak ill of o t h e r

Republicans. "

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

That was D r . [Gaylord] Parkinson 's phras ing , I th ink .

It may have been.

How c l o s e l y d id your group work wi th t he Republican s t a t ewide organ-

i z a t i o n i n t h e '66 campaign?

I th ink p r e t t y c l o s e l y a f t e r t h e primary. You reminded m e of

Parkinson. H e was a q u i t e e f f e c t i v e s t a t e [ p a r t y ] chairman and one wi th

whom w e could work. Other s t a t e [pa r ty ] chairmen had been more d i f f i c u l t

t o work with.

Was Weinberger more d i f f i c u l t t o work wi th? He had preceded

Parkinson a s chairman.

Weinberger was much more l i b e r a l than Parkinson. I th ink you would

f i n d t h a t Weinberger was a suppor te r of Chris topher .

I am no t c l e a r about t h a t . What I was th ink ing of is h i s concern

when he was chairman of t h e p a r t y about t r y i n g t o b r i n g toge the r

what he f e l t w e r e f a i r l y conten t ious r i v a l groups of conserva t ive

t o l i b e r a l viewpoints, each of which wanted t o have c o n t r o l of t h e

pa r ty r a t h e r than b u i l d an o rgan iza t ion which could e l e c t candidates .

Do you remember any of t h a t a s a f a c t o r i n your--?

No, I do no t .

I11 CLEANING HOUSE FOR THE NEW ADMINISTRATION

Work of t h e Appointments Committee

Morris: A t what po in t d i d t h e campaign a d v i s e r s develop i n t o an ongoing

advisory group? You a l l s e e m t o have been very much involved i n

t h e t r a n s i t i o n .

Hume: W e began t o have meetings wi th Ron. The one I t o l d you about where

he brought ou t h i s homework occurred i n t he e a r l y days of t h e

campaign, I be l i eve . W e had meetings wi th Ron a t h i s home, then a t

var ious o the r l o c a t i o n s , da t i ng from t h e preprimary on. W e worked

wi th him c l o s e l y during t h e campaign, both people who w e r e i n t h e

p o l i t i c a l campaign and those who worked on money r a i s i n g .

Morris: You a l l s o r t of took i t f o r granted t h a t you would cont inue o f f e r i n g

advice and sugges t ions?

Hume: No, I don ' t t h ink so. Nevertheless w e were, I th ink a l l of u s ,

i n t e r e s t e d i n t h e ques t ion of t h e q u a l i t y of personnel who would be

brought i n t o t h e s t a t e government. W e f e l t t h i s was extremely

important and Ron knew how s t r o n g l y w e f e l t on t h i s sub j ec t .

Morris: So i t was kind of l o g i c a l f o r you t o assume some r e s p o n s i b i l i t y a s

an appointments committee t o f i l l - - ?

Hume: Well, I suppose so . He had t o g e t sugges t ions from somewhere. W e

made i t a f i r s t p r i o r i t y t o t r y t o f i n d , a l l over t h e s tate, as a b l e

people as we pos s ib ly could f o r each o f t h e s p o t s i n t h e s tate

government w i t h no regard a t a l l t o t h e i r suppor t by t h e p o l i t i c a l

o rgan i za t i ons i n t h e state. W e were t r y i n g t o f i n d people who, i f

t hey took a p o l i t i c a l o f f i c e , would do a good job r a t h e r than people

w i t h exper ience as p o l i t i c a l o f f i c e ho lde r s .

Morr is : You were look ing f o r a d m i n i s t r a t i v e s k i l l s ?

Hume: And people who were p h i l o s o p h i c a l l y ded ica ted t o a p r i v a t e e n t e r p r i s e ,

conse rva t i ve , p r o f i t - o r i e n t e d s o c i e t y .

Morr is : What w e r e your p r i o r i t i e s i n f i l l i n g s p o t s f o r t h e new a d m i n i s t r a t i o n ?

Hume: W e wanted people who were p h i l o s o p h i c a l l y i n accord--

Morr is : I was t h i n k i n g i n terms o f t h e range of jobs . There a r e t h e agency

s e c r e t a r i e s and department heads and t h e governor ' s immediate o f f i c e ,

and a l l t h e v a r i o u s boards and commissions--from t h e P u b l i c U t i l i t i e s

Commission t o t h e d i s t r i c t f a i r boards and t h i n g s l i k e t h a t . Did

your committee cover a l l t hose c a t e g o r i e s of appoin tees?

Hume: Many commissions are n o t s u b j e c t t o appointment when a governor goes

i n t o o f f i c e . They a r e s e q u e n t i a l . W e d i d i n t e r e s t o u r s e l v e s i n

i n d i v i d u a l s who we thought would be good members o f t h e governor ' s

o f f i c e . But t h e f i r s t job was t o s t a f f t h e p r i n c i p a l p o s i t i o n s i n

t h e s t a t e government a s w i se ly as w e could. W e reached o u t f o r a l l

k inds of people thoughout t h e s tate, most o f whom had never h e l d a

p o l i t i c a l o f f i c e before . They were i n d i v i d u a l s we thought were t h e

most a b l e we could f i n d .

Morris: That is a po in t t h a t has had q u i t e a l o t of d i scuss ion , I th ink .

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

I gathered t h a t when you were i n t he t r a n s i t i o n phase t h e r e were

some people who drew up memos f o r how the government should funct ion

and expressed concern t h a t t h e r e needed t o be some people who d id

have experience i n government, t o kind of show t h e new people t h e

ropes. Was t h a t a sub jec t of some d iscuss ion?

It may have been. I th ink our group d id no t agree with t h a t . We

f e l t t h a t you do not ge t a c lean house unless you clean house.

True. I gathered t h e r e were some problems, however, t h e f i r s t

couple of years t h a t M r . Reagan was i n Sacramento, p a r t i c u l a r l y with

the l e g i s l a t u r e .

I th ink t h a t was one of t h e e r r o r s t h a t Ron made. I th ink he

underestimated t h e importance of t h e l e g i s l a t u r e . He learned t h e

lesson very we l l , a s shown by t h e way he handled the l e g i s l a t u r e i n

h i s l a t e r years when i t was Democratically cont ro l led . You do no t

j u s t r i d e roughshod over l e g i s l a t u r e s .

Were t h e r e some people who had worked on l e g i s l a t i v e campaigns

feeding i n suggest ions and concerns about how you go about doing

these th ings ?

Worked on l e g i s l a t i v e campaigns? I don ' t know what you mean.

I mentioned t h e Ca l i fo rn i a Plan e a r l i e r . That had some people

coordinat ing i t , both i n t h e l e g i s l a t u r e and some p ro fe s s iona l

p o l i t i c a l campaign people. I wondered i f they were i n touch wi th

M r . Reagan and your group.

Hume : I donlt ,know. I th ink t h a t s e v e r a l of those who were respons ib le

f o r t h e success of t he Ca l i fo rn i a Plan, o r whatever you c a l l i t ,

were a l s o a c t i v e sufiporters of Reagan. So I th ink t h e r e was a

melding of those.

Morris: But t h e i n i t i a l dec is ion t h a t was ac ted on, was t h a t i t was more

important t o have people who were phi losophica l ly l o y a l and s ingle-

minded, r a t h e r than people who would l i s t e n t o the--?

Hume: I would no t say singleminded, bu t had a philosophy t h a t t h e b e s t

government is t h e l e a s t government, t h a t you should not have

government t r y i n g t o so lve t h e problems of s o c i e t y . Af te r a l l ,

t he re is no such th ing a s "government1' which e x i s t s a p a r t from

people. It is e n t i r e l y made up of people. There i s no body of

government money t h a t e x i s t s a p a r t from taxpayers. A l l t h e money

spent by t h e government comes from the people. Many have the idea

t h a t you can j u s t t u r n a problem over t o "government" and t h a t an

ind iv idua l who has a pub l i c s e r v i c e job is endowed wi th higher

moral i ty and more i n t e l l i g e n c e than someone who has a p r i v a t e

e n t e r p r i s e job. I th ink these a r e i deas t h a t we have been taught

and I do not be l i eve them.

Morris: Was i t seen a s an opportuni ty t o ge t some experience f o r some b r i g h t

young men? I am s t r u c k by t h e youth of a l o t of t he people t h a t

were on the governor 's s t a f f i n i t i a l l y .

Hume: The reason younger people were brought i n t o the adminis t ra t ion was

no t t o give them experience. It was done because i t is much e a s i e r

t o g e t a b l e i nd iv idua l s t o take a publ ic job when they a r e younger

Hume: than when they a r e i n middle o r l a t e r l i f e . When people a r e i n

midcareer i t is d i f f i c u l t f o r them t o l eave t h a t ca ree r . Also, we

wanted t h e energy and enthusiasm t h a t you o f t e n do no t ge t from

o l d e r people. We c e r t a i n l y d id not want t o depend on people who

had come up through t h e bureaucracy t o continue t o run t h e s t a t e ,

because they had been running i t i n ways which we d id not f e e l were

proper.

Morris: As t h e governorship went on, i t looks a s i f t h e r e d id come some

people ou t of t h e bureaucracy--career people i n government who d id

t u r n out t o be he lp fu l .

Hume : Oh, yes. There a r e a l o t of very good people i n government, very

conscient ious. I f someone a t t he top encourages such ind iv idua l s

i n t h e bureaucracy t o come forward wi th h e l p f u l programs and ideas

by l e t t i n g them know t h a t they w i l l no t be i n t roub le i f t hese

ideas a r e not i n l i n e with what t h e department has always done,

these people do come forward with exce l l en t suggest ions. Of course

you a r e always looking f o r such people i n a bureaucracy, because

t h e b e s t suggest ions o f t e n come from people with experience i n t h e

way a department works.

Morris: We mentioned t a s k fo rces e a r l i e r on. I guess one of t h e f i r s t

e f f o r t s of t h e new adminis t ra t ion was t o s e t up a t a s k fo rce on

government e f f i c i e n c y and economy. Had you suggested t h a t , and they

s a i d , "Okay, you can take i t on "?

Hurne: Exactly who brought t he idea of t a s k fo rces t o Ron's a t t e n t i o n I am

not su re . It had been done i n one o r two o t h e r s t a t e s previously.

We were f a sc ina t ed with t h i s idea .

An ind iv idua l from a s t a t e where i t had been done came out t o

t a l k t o us and then we s e n t a r ep re sen ta t ive back t o t h e s t a t e t o

* s e e t h e program a t f i r s t -hand .

Morris: I see , and then brought t h a t man out a s a s t a f f person?

Hume: I do not remember whether we brought him out as a s t a f f person. We

brought him ou t t o t e l l us what was going on and t o make s u r e t h a t

we b e n e f i t t e d from t h e e r r o r s and t h e wise moves t h a t they had made.

Morris: How did you go about g e t t i n g , what was i t , one hundred and t e n

business execut ives to--?

Hume : It was over two hundred.

Morris: Good heavens! That is an impressive number.

Hume : Yes, i t is. The requirement was t h a t they be top q u a l i t y execut ives ,

t h a t they be vice-presidents o r higher and have very respons ib le

jobs i n t h e i r o rganiza t ions , be highly regarded by t h e i r peers and

t h a t they be re leased without any q u a l i f i c a t i o n f o r s i x months.

They had t o s t o p t h e i r cu r r en t jobs f o r s i x months. Employers a l l

agreed t h a t t h e ind iv idua ls they loaned t o the t a s k fo rce would not

l o s e i n t h e i r progress i n t h e i r companies because they had spent

s i x months o r more i n Sacramento.

*See Warren King, Governor Reagan's Use of Task Forces "and Loaned Executives, 1966-1968, Regional Oral History Off ice , U .C . Berkeley, i n progress .

Morris : Would they con t inue t o g e t t h e i r r e g u l a r salaries from t h e i r

employer?

Hume: Yes, as I r e c a l l , t h e y were p a i d by t h e companies, a l though I do

n o t remember e x a c t l y what was done.

Morr is : I came a c r o s s a comment t h a t you were l a r g e l y r e s p o n s i b l e f o r

r e c r u i t i n g a l l t h o s e people .

Hume: I worked hard on r e c r u i t i n g people f o r t h e t a s k f o r c e from n o r t h e r n

C a l i f o r n i a companies. It seemed t o m e such a sound way t o improve

s tate government. I t a l k e d t o t h e c h i e f e x e c u t i v e s o f t h e b i g

c o r p o r a t i o n s i n San Franc i sco abou t t h e program and sugges ted t o

each t h e number o f peop le we would l i k e t o have them make a v a i l a b l e .

It was n o t d i f f i c u l t t o do t h i s . You must remember t h a t t h e r e was

tremendous enthusiasm i n t h e s t a t e f o r Governor Reagan a t t h a t t i m e .

It was c l e a r t h a t he was t r y i n g t o b r i n g e f f i c i e n c y i n t o t h e s t a t e

government and start w i t h i n d i v i d u a l s who were n o t p o l i t i c a l l y

mot ivated.

Morr is : Was i t word o f mouth o r d i d you send o u t a q u e s t i o n n a i r e ?

Hume : I t h i n k most o f i t was word o f mouth. I t a l k e d t o t h e heads o f t h e

t e lephone company and Standard O i l and v a r i o u s o t h e r o r g a n i z a t i o n s

i n town i n c l u d i n g t h e p r i n c i p a l banks and t o l d them what we wanted.

I urged t h a t p a r t i c i p a t i n g i n t h i s program would b e t o t h e i r d i s t i n c t

advantage because peop le they l e n t should b e more v a l u a b l e employees

when they came back from Sacramento. They would have had a f i r s t -

hand exper ience i n t h e way government works t h a t could n o t b e

o b t a i n e d i n any o t h e r f a s h i o n .

Morris: Let m e a s k you a l a t e r a l ques t ion . I n developing your own bus iness

with your b r o t h e r , d i d you spend a f a i r amount of t i m e yourse l f

dea l ing wi th var ious government r egu la t i ons ?

Hume: No, I had no dea l ing wi th government a t a l l u n t i l t h e Second World

War, when w e b u i l t and expanded ou r p l a n t w i th government money.

We were t h e p r i n c i p a l s u p p l i e r of dehydrated onion and g a r l i c f o r

t he m i l i t a r y during t h e war--

Morris: A b i g r e s p o n s i b i l i t y ;

Hume : --so t h a t I had a l o t o f t i e - i n wi th t h e government people i n t h a t

per iod. But t h a t is t h e only experience I have had.

Morris: But you f e l t t h a t persona l ly t h a t had been a b e n e f i c i a l experience?

Hume: I do no t remember whether I thought of i t t h a t way o r no t . It was

not hard i n 1966 t o convince t h e heads of l a r g e corpora t ions t h a t

t h e i r o rgan iza t ion , no mat te r what Ron d id , was going t o have a l o t

of contac t wi th t h e s t a t e government. ~ c c o r d i n ~ l l i t would be t o

t h e i r advantage t o have people i n t h e i r o rgan iza t ion who knew some-

t h i n g about how t h e C a l i f o r n i a s t a t e government works from an i n s i d e

view r a t h e r than e n t i r e l y from t h e ou t s ide .

Morris: Did t h e people who agreed t o send an execut ive person l a r g e l y send

somebody from pub l i c a f f a i r s , o r d id they send people from t h e i r

f i n a n c i a l and production?

Hume: No, w e asked f o r people who had skills i n t h e p a r t i c u l a r a r e a s i n

which t h e t a s k f o r c e proposed t o work. For example, we wanted

people who had s k i l l s i n handl ing automobiles because t h e s t a t e

has a huge f l e e t of c a r s . We wanted people w i th s k i l l s i n purchasing,

Hume: i n personnel management, i n accounting, i n t h e use of computers,

i n handl ing pub l i c r e c r e a t i o n a r e a s (such a s Disneyland), and i n

mass feeding and o the r th ings t h a t t i e d i n t o t h e opera t ion of pr i sons .

These people would be a b l e t o s tudy p a r t i c u l a r phases of t h e a c t i v i -

t i e s i n which t h e s t a t e was engaged with a background of how t h a t

p a r t i c u l a r kind of a c t i v i t y was handled most e f f i c i e n t l y by p r i v a t e

e n t e r p r i s e .

Morris: When you had t o l i v e by p r o f i t and l o s s s ta tements?

Hume : Yes. For example, we had on t h e t a s k fo rce ind iv idua l s who were

respons ib le f o r a l l o c a t i n g space i n o f f i c e bu i ld ings occupied by

l a r g e employers such a s t h e telephone company. They examined a

. plan t o b u i l d two huge new s t a t e o f f i c e bui ld ings .

Morris: That was going t o be a new s t a t e c a p i t o l , wasn't i t ?

Hume : No. These new bui ld ings were t o house t h e employees of var ious

departments of t h e s t a t e .

On examination, t h e members of t h e t a s k fo rce found t h a t t h e

s t a t e was a l l o c a t i n g about two and one h a l f times t h e number ~f

- square f e e t i n o f f i c e bui ld ings t o each employee a s was a l l o c a t e d i n

p r i v a t e e n t e r p r i s e . It was obvious t h a t e x i s t i n g o f f i c e space could

be used much more e f f i c i e n t l y . Accordingly, t h e s t a t e d id no t b u i l d

t hese two new o f f i c e bui ld ings and a c t u a l l y I b e l i e v e was a b l e t o

r e n t t o o the r s some space i t a l ready had i n Sacramento.

Morris: That has been a constant problem with government, I understand.

They e i t h e r have too much space o r too l i t t l e . One of t he th ings

t h a t occurs t o me from looking backwards a t i t , i s t h a t i f you send

Morris: businessmen i n , presumably they might a l s o come up wi th suggest ions

f o r kinds of t a s k s t h a t could be b e t t e r done by p r i v a t e i ndus t ry

cont rac ted t o from t h e government.

Hume: That was not t h e purpose of t he t a s k force . The purpose was c l e a r l y

l a i d o u t , no t whether government ought t o do t h i s o r t h a t , bu t how

it could be done more e f f i c i e n t l y and economically.

/I /I

Morris: You a l s o d ra f t ed some of t h e i r s e c r e t a r i e s too , I understand.

Hume: I cannot t e l l you, I do not remember t h a t . That might very w e l l

have been done bu t t h a t would have been handled by t h e man we got t o

head the t a s k fo rce program.

Morris: The man from Pr i ce Waterhouse?

Hume : Yes. I be l i eve t h a t he was the r e t i r e d head of P r i ce Waterhouse.

I V OBSERVING REAGAN AS GOVERNOR; PRESIDENTIAL POTENTIAL

...

Serving as Chief of P ro toco l

Morr is : I would l i k e t o ask a couple of ques t i ons about your p ro toco l

r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s .

Hume: Icananswerthoseprettyquickly.

Morris : Were t h e p ro toco l r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s something t h a t took up a g r e a t

d e a l of your t ime?

Hume: No, i t cons i s t ed almost e n t i r e l y of meeting a t t h e a i r p o r t

d i g n i t a r i e s when they came t o t h e s tate and a t t e n d i n g v a r i o u s

consu la r f unc t i ons . There w a s almost no o t h e r r e s p o n s i b i l i t y t h a t

I w a s asked t o perform. Fo r tuna t e ly , I w a s a b l e t o f i n d some a b l e

people who enjoyed t h i s k ind of s o c i a l con t ac t who were prepared

t o s e r v e as deputy c h i e f s of p ro toco l .

Morr is : Y e s , I would t h i n k i t i s a s p e c i a l k ind of t h ing .

Hume: I tu rned over a lmost a l l my r e s p o n s i b i l i t y t o t h e deputy c h i e f s .

A s soon as it w a s obvious t h a t one of them could handle t h e job

w e l l , I res igned i n h i s favor .

Morris: Looking through some of the ma te r i a l s i n t h e Reagan papers i n t he

Hoover, t h e r e seems t o have been q u i t e a number of people from

coun t r i e s a l l over t h e world. I wondered i f t h i s was seen a t a l l

a s a kind of an exposure t o fore ign r e l a t i o n s f o r M r . Reagan, t h a t

these were good con tac t s i n case he decided t o run f o r t h e presidency.

Hume : [pause] Perhaps, perhaps. We were most i n t e r e s t e d when Ron was

asked t o go t o t h e Phi l ipp ines t o represent Nixon, I th ink . The

Ph i l i pp ine ambassador cabled back t o t h e S t a t e Department t h a t

Governor Reagan had done more t o he lp Philippine-American r e l a t i o n s

i n t he two o r t h r e e days he was t h e r e than anyone had over a l l t he

period he knew about. The exce l l en t recept ion h e had i n England

when he went t h e r e t o address , I be l i eve , t h e P i lgr im Associat ion,

gave him a good exposure i n England.

Morris: The publ ic a f f a i r s magazines and t h e n a t i o n a l newspapers, a s soon

a s M r . Reagan took o f f i c e , s t a r t e d commenting on him a s a p o t e n t i a l

p r e s i d e n t i a l candidate , a long with George Romney and Nelson

Rockefel ler , who were a l s o a c t i v e governors a t t h a t po in t . A t what

po in t did the group here i n Ca l i fo rn i a begin t o th ink about him a s

a p r e s i d e n t i a l p o s s i b i l i t y ?

Hume: Ithinkitwasnotverylongafterhetookoffice. H e h a d h a n d l e d

h i s campaign so we l l and a l l of us were so pleased with the way he

s t a r t e d handling h i s job a s governor. The s t e p s he was taking

were exac t ly those which we thought ought t o be taken. W e f e l t

t h a t t he same s t e p s should be taken a t t he f ede ra l l e v e l . We

bel ieved Governor Reagan had more a b i l i t y t o t ake these s t e p s a t

Hume: t h e f ede ra l l e v e l than anyone e l s e i n t h e country. A s a r e s u l t ,

very soon t h e ques t ion came up i n our d iscuss ions : Should we not

t r y t o ge t Reagan t o run f o r t he presidency.

We ta lked about t h i s w i th in , I suppose, a few months a f t e r he

had got ten i n t o o f f i c e , c e r t a i n l y l e s s than a year . Pres ident

Reagan i s a very impressive person. Anyone who knows him we l l

r e a l i z e s how fo r tuna te t h e publ ic is t o have him a s a publ ic

s e rvan t .

Staying i n Touch With t h e Governor's Off ice

Morris: Was t h e r e anyone i n p a r i c u l a r on t h e s t a f f i n Sacramento t h a t you

could s t a y i n touch wi th and feed i n information t h a t you f e l t was

h e l p f u l o r t h a t would keep t abs on some of t hese n a t i o n a l i s sues?

Hume: I th ink we d e a l t with h i s execut ive s e c r e t a r y . Or ig ina l ly t h i s was

B i l l Clark and l a t e r i t was Ed Meese. We a l s o knew we l l t h e o t h e r s

who were i n h i s cab ine t , inc luding Ike Livermore, Gordon Luce, and

t h e o thers . We, of course, knew Mike Deaver and t h e governor 's

s e c r e t a r i e s , so had a s e r i e s of people t o whom we could t a l k .

We were i n and ou t of Sacramento f a i r l y o f t en . Of course we

had had something t o do wi th choosing these people and knew some of

them before they took o f f i c e . They knew t h a t we wanted nothing

except t o have a b e t t e r s t a t e government.

Mdrrisr And b r ing th ings t o t h e Governor's a t t e n t i o n t h a t he might not--?

Hume: I have always made i t a pol icy t o s e e Reagan a s seldom a s I could

and when I d id have everything about which I wanted t o t a l k t o him

Hume : o u t l i n e d . I wanted t o make s u r e I would n o t was te h i s t i m e . I

have always t r i e d t o g e t through my l is t a s q u i c k l y a s I could .

Ron is e x c e l l e n t i n such a d i s c u s s i o n . He unders tands problems

immediately, and you can cover a g r e a t d e a l w i t h him i n a s h o r t

t i m e .

Mc~r r i s : In your own b u s i n e s s , do you u s e t h i s i d e a of b o i l i n g e v e r y t h i n g

down t o a one-page memo on a s u b j e c t t o g e t a l o t o f t h i n g s tended

t o ?

Hume: No, I do n o t r u n my b u s i n e s s n e a r l y a s . e f f i c i e n t l y a s Ron r u n s h i s

o f f i c e .

Morr is : You were a s k i n g him t o do i n s ta te government t h i n g s t h a t d i d n o t

g e t done i n b u s i n e s s ?

Hume: Y e s , y e s . I would b e d e l i g h t e d i f h e were running my b u s i n e s s . He

would do i t v e r y w e l l .

Morr is : On t h e p r o t o c o l m a t t e r s , Michael Deaver seems t o have had some

concerns t h a t t h i n g s were n o t going a s smoothly as h e thought . Was

t h i s r e a l o r d i d Mike--?

Hume: You mean i n t h e hand l ing p r o t o c o l ?

Morr is : R igh t , t h a t t h i n g s were g e t t i n g fou led up and t h a t peop le were n o t

g e t t i n g t h e in format ion t h a t they should have on some of t h e s e

t h i n g s .

Hume : I . don' t know.

Morr i s : I wondered i f t h i s was t h e way h e o p e r a t e s , i f h e is concerned t h a t

a l l t h e d e t a i l s b e j u s t r i g h t or--?

Hume: Ron func t ioned by t u r n i n g a m a t t e r o v e r t o someone and e x p e c t i n g

him t o t a k e c a r e o f t h e m a t t e r p roper ly . I do n o t t h i n k h e t r i e s t o

Hurne: t e l l people how t o handle t h e d e t a i l s of what they a r e doing. I

th ink probably Mike is more i n t e r e s t e d i n d e t a i l s , and someone has

t o watch t h e d e t a i l s .

Morris: He l i k e s t o s e e th ings run smoothly. You know, some people can

l i v e q u i t e comfortably with d e t a i l s no t g e t t i n g handled and o the r

people f i n d t h e d e t a i l s very important.

Republican Par ty Matters

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

It was i n 1969, I th ink , t h a t M r . Reagan asked you t o s e rve on t h e

Republican S t a t e Cent ra l Committee?

I guess so , yes. I d i d n ' t do very much on it.

Because t h e r e was no t much t o do or--?

I am j u s t no t e n t h u s i a s t i c about tak ing p a r t i n organiza t ions l i k e

t h e s t a t e cen t r a l committee. There i s so much overhead s t r u c t u r e

and the re a r e so many people involved, you spend too much time

t a lk ing . I p r e f e r no t t o spend my time i n a b i g group meeting. I

would r a t h e r t r y t o do on my own something I f e l t was important.

The pa r ty d id n o t seem t o be a t e r r i b l y c e n t r a l a c t i v i t y ?

I have never been p a r t i c u l a r l y happy with the philosophy of t h e

par ty . I th ink t h e par ty has been t o a considerable ex t en t control led

by people whose p o l i t i c a l philosophy was no t t h e same a s mine.

So i t has been t h a t t h e people who were i n t h e leadersh ip r o l e s ,

r a t h e r than t h e par ty i t s e l f ?

I should th ink so.

Morris: Did groups w i t h i n t h e p a r t y c a u s e some d i f f i c u l t y i n t h e 1968

campaign? There were some comments t h a t t h e r e were those who were

no t happy wi th a f a v o r i t e son de l ega t ion t o Miami i n 1968?

Hume : I am s u r e t h a t i s so . You had people who f e l t t h a t t h e heads of

t h e pa r ty o rgan iza t ion should c o n t r o l t h e de lega t ion r a t h e r than

t h e governor. The pa r ty had had very l i t t l e t o do wi th t h e e l e c t i o n

of Reagan. The o rgan iza t ion of t h e p rec inc t work and of t h e fund-

r a i s i n g and o f t h e campaign had been i n t h e hands o f o t h e r s . The

pa r ty was t h e r e t o some e x t e n t , bu t you j u s t do no t seem t o g e t t h e

d r i v e wi th a b ig , amorphous p a r t y organiza t ion t h a t is necessary t o

wage an e f f e c t i v e campaign.

Morris: I n 1968 you had M r . Nixon a l s o very a c t i v e l y seeking t h e presidency.

Would t he p a r t y o rgan iza t ion be a p lace where you would get some

s t r u g g l e between Nixon suppor t e r s and Reagan suppor t e r s?

Hume: I s u p p o s e s o . C a l i f o r n i a h a s aunitrulefortheirdelegation. We

saw no reason t h a t t h i s should no t be observed.

Morris: In a i d of t he candidacy t h a t you persona l ly were--?

Hume : In o t h e r words, Governor Reagan was t h e choice of t h e people of t h e

s t a t e t o be t h e l e a d e r of t h e pa r ty and n o t t h e s t a t e chairman of

t he Republican par ty . Everyone who is a de l ega t e is ob l iga t ed t o

support t h e f a v o r i t e son u n t i l he r e l e a s e s them, and w e were n o t

e n t h u s i a s t i c when some people s a i d t h a t they d i d no t want t o abide

by t h i s u n i t r u l e .

Morris: That was an i n t e r e s t i n g s i t u a t i o n , because you had two major f i g u r e s

seeking the n a t i o n a l top s p o t , both of whem were Cal i forn ians . Did

t h a t complicate i t any that--?

Hume : Sure, su re . Of course one had a s t r o n g n a t i o n a l organiza t ion , the

o t h e r d id no t .

Morris: There seemed t o be a kind of a loose na t iona l information and fund-

r a i s i n g group i n a i d of Republican candidates . I understand t h a t

M r . Reagan had some contac ts wi th t h a t . As e a r l y a s 1968, they were

asking him t o do speeches t o Republican groups around t h e country.

Hume : He has always been t h e most e f f e c t i v e fundra i se r t h a t t h e Republican

pa r ty has. He has always been very generous wi th h i s time

fundra is ing i n d i f f e r e n t l oca t ions over t h e country.

Morris: More e f f e c t i v e a t t h a t po in t than M r . Nixon?

Hume : Much more so , yes. I perhaps should not make t h a t a s a f l a t

s ta tement . I should say, I would assume so.

Morris: Did you g e t involved i n some of those speaking engagements around

the country?

Hume : I would say no t , no.

Morris: When M r . Nixon was e l ec t ed p re s iden t was t h e r e much contac t back

and f o r t h between t h e s t a t e people working wi th the governor and

people i n Washington working wi th t h e p re s iden t?

Hume : [pause] Some. I th ink t h a t , i n my opinion, Nixon was f r igh tened by

t h e s t r e n g t h Ron had shown i n Miami. Ron came very c l o s e t o being

nominated. I f one ind iv idua l had not made a commitment t o Nixon

and had done what I th ink he wished t o do, we might very we l l have

got ten t h e nomination.

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

Morris :

Hume :

I n 1968?

I n 1968.

Was t h a t a Cal i forn ian?

No, i t was Strom Thurmond. He had made a commitment t o Nixon, bu t

he was b a s i c a l l y a suppor te r of Ron, because Ron is more conserva-

t i v e than Nixon is.

What was t h e e f f e c t of M r . Nixon being concerned about t h e s t r e n g t h

t h a t M r . Reagan had shown?

Well, t h e r e was not much enthusiasm f o r Reagan people i n t h e Nixon

adminis t ra t ion , i n s p i t e of t h e f a c t t h a t Reagan's e f f o r t s had been

very ins t rumenta l i n t h e Nixon e l e c t i o n .

Once Reagan l o s t t h e nomination he was w i l l i n g to--?

He then completely turned over h i s organiza t ion t o he lp Nixon.

This is t y p i c a l of t h e way Ron handled l o s i n g t h e nomination. He

d id t h e same t h i n g when he l o s t t o [Gerald] Ford i n 1976. That i s

one of t h e g rea t t h i n g s m k e Curb d id . He l e d t h e volunteers who

had worked f o r Reagan be fo re t h e 1976 convention--the whole volunteer

organiza t ion which was so e f fec tEve and which, a s I t o l d you, was

ou t s ide o f t h e Republican pa r ty . Mike l e d them almost kicking and

screaming t o support Ford. Thanks l a r g e l y t o Mike Curb they gave

s t rong support t o Ford, and Ford won i n Ca l i fo rn i a . I ques t ion

whether h e would have without t h i s vo lunteer support .

Morris: Several people, most notably M r . ~ e a g a n ' s Lieutenant Governor

[Robert Finch], went t o Washington wi th M r . Nixon. Was t h e r e some

f e e l i n g t h e o the r way around, t h a t some--?

Hume: H e t o o k s o m e o f t h e g o o d p e o p l e f r o m S a c r a m e n t o , b e c a u s e t h e y w e r e

t h e b e s t people he could g e t a t i n t h e country. Ron was very help- w

f u l i n r e l e a s i n g people t o go t o Washington.

Morris: Was t h e r e some f e e l i n g of concern among M r . Reagan's people t h a t

some of t hese fo lks , l i k e M r . Finch and Hugh Flournoy, were too

c lose t o M r . Nixon, and the re fo re might n o t be t o t a l l y l o y a l t o t h e

th ings t h a t M r . Reagan was t r y i n g t o accomplish?

Hume: I th ink t h a t both Finch and Flournoy were not ph i losophica l ly

a t tuned t o Reagan. Finch i s not a conservat ive, and he i s a l s o not

very e f f i c i e n t , i n my opinion. He was no t a very s a t i s f a c t o r y

l ieu tenant governor. Ron t r i e d t o give him r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s , and

th ings simply did no t g e t done. He t r i e d very hard t o put t h ings

i n t o t h e Lieutenant Governor's a r e a of r e s p o n s i b i l i t y .

Morris: Was t h i s one of t he ideas t h a t was developed by t h e advisory group,

t h a t t h e Lieutenant Governor could t ake on more r e s p o n s i b i l i t y ?

Hume: I do n o t be l i eve t h a t i t was developed by t h e advisory group, bu t

i t was a philosophy of Ron's. H e is doing t h e same th ing now

ass igning r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s t o George Bush. He has t r i e d t o bu i ld up

Bush i n every way he can, making him an execut ive v ice-pres ident .

That is t y p i c a l of him.

Morris : That makes s e n s e from a c o r p o r a t e p o i n t o f view, t o d e l e g a t e t h i n g s

t o an a d m i n i s t r a t i v e o f f i c e r .

Hume : Yes.

Morr is : I n p o l i t i c s I thought i t was frowned upon, because you are d i v i d i n g

your s t r e n g t h and your l o y a l t i e s by t u r n i n g o v e r r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s

t o o t h e r s . n

Hume: Ron does n o t worry about t h e p o l i t i c a l i m p l i c a t i o n s o f most t h i n g s .

H e is r e a l l y above t h a t . H e does what h e b e l i e v e s w i l l accomplish

t h e job b e s t .

I d e a s From t h e General E l e c t r i c Years

Morr is : Did you e v e r t a l k t o him about where some of t h e s e i d e a s developed

i n h i s own exper ience , and how h e came t o have a f e e l f o r runn ing

a l a r g e governmental o f f i c e ?

Hume: I t h i n k t h e exper ience h e had working f o r General E l e c t r i c was ve ry

impor tan t f o r him. H e was employed by General E l e c t r i c when i ts

l a b o r f o r c e was among t h e most r a d i c a l l y dominated l a b o r f o r c e s i n

t h e i n d u s t r y . For y e a r s h e t r a v e l e d around t h e coun t ry t o t h e 130

p l a n t s o f General E l e c t r i c . H e would go down t h e p roduc t ion l i n e

t a l k i n g t o s m a l l groups, sometimes as many as f i f t e e n o r twenty

d i f f e r e n t groups i n a day, I unders tand.

A f t e r h i s t a l k h e asked f o r q u e s t i o n s . These covered t h e

r e l a t i o n s h i p of t h e c o r p o r a t i o n t o i ts employees. One o f t h e p o i n t s

h e emphasized was t h a t t h e o n l y way wages could be i n c r e a s e d was f o r

t h e c o r p o r a t i o n t o b e s u c c e s s f u l . H e exp la ined how t h e p r i v a t e

Hume: e n t e r p r i s e system works, how it is t o t h e advantage of t he worker

t o make good products so t h a t they w i l l s e l l wel l . This i s the only

way a company earns t he money t o pay h igher wages.

I n t h a t per iod, Reagan honed h i s i deas and h i s philosophy t o a

po in t where now he does n o t have t o work out t he answer t o most

ques t ions when they a r e presented t o him. The ques t ion j u s t f i t s

i n t o a s l o t i n h i s philosophy so the answer is obvious t o him. This

makes i t e a s i e r f o r him t o answer quest ions because he has a l ready

thought so many problems th rough . to a l o g i c a l conclusion. He i s

a l s o so c l e a r i n h i s th inking , which, of course--

Morris: Did he ge t a l o t of chal lenges from some of t he GE employees?

Hume: I ga ther a tremendous number. A t f i r s t he had t o f ace a l o t of

heckl ing. I gather t h a t over a per iod of time he d id such a g r e a t

job t h a t i t changed the whole a t t i t u d e of t he work fo rce . I am s u r e

t h a t he d id not do t h i s a lone, bu t I am t o l d t h a t he played an

important p a r t i n c r e a t i n g a much b e t t e r atmosphere i n General

E l e c t r i c . I know one of h i s g r e a t e s t suppor te rs i s a pan named

Samuel R. Boulware, who was i n charge of employee r e l a t i o n s a t

General E l e c t r i c . He i s t h e man who h i r ed Ron. He could not say

enough n i c e th ings about Ronald Reagan.

Morris: Did you ever have a chance t o t a l k t o M r . Boulware?

Hume: I t a l k e d t o h i m I t h i n k o n t h e p h o n e o n c e o r t w i c e a n d I i m a g i n e I

have met him. I do no t , however, know him a t a l l we l l .

Morris: I was wondering i f GE had developed t h i s kind of approach i n order

t o dea l with a press ing l abo r r e l a t i o n s problem?

Hume : Y e s . Their approach of cooperat ion r a t h e r than con f ron ta t i on wi th

employees was s o e f f e c t i v e t h a t t h e l abo r union o f f i c i a l s c a l l e d

i t "Boulwarism". The heads of t h e union s a i d i t was u n f a i r t o

unions. They maintained t h a t t h e r e l a t i o n s h i p between a company

and i ts employees must be through t h e union and not d i r e c t .

Obviously, t h e union f e l t i t could no t p rosper i n an atmosphere of

cooperat ion between employer and employees.

Morris: It has rung an echo i n my mind of what was done i n World War 11.

This was p a r t of t he wartime p roduc t iv i t y program f o r which they

used t o g ive t h e army-navy "En.

Hume : I know. Our company rece ived the army-navy "E" t h r e e d i f f e r e n t

t i m e s .

Morris: A r e t h e r e any th ings about working wi th M r . Reagan i n Sacramento o r

on t h e campaign t r a i l t h a t I have n o t p r i ed ou t of your very good

memory?

Hume : Well, I am s u r e t h a t I have emphasized t o you s e v e r a l t imes t h a t

our country is f o r t u n a t e t o have such an a b l e i nd iv idua l a s pres ident .

One of h i s g r e a t e s t a s s e t s is a very r e t e n t i v e mind.

Another i s h i s e x c e l l e n t judgment. For example, on s e v e r a l

occasions a group of h i s f r i e n d s has brought a program t o him t h a t

w e thought he ought t o adopt. Often Ron has ' t hough t over t h e

program and then s a i d , "Well, thank you very much, b u t I do not

b e l i e v e I w i l l fo l low your advice. ' ' Almost always, subsequent events

have proved h i s judgment was b e t t e r than t h a t of h i s adv i so r s .

Hume : P r e s i d e n t Reagan is very much h i s own man. He makes h i s own

d e c i s i o n s . When he w a s f i r s t e l e c t e d governor , people wanted t o

know t h e name of h i s speech w r i t e r because e a r l y on no one cou ld

b e l i e v e t h a t h e wro te h i s own speeches . But h e d i d w r i t e them.

And t h e r e was no speech writer. Of c o u r s e , h e had i n d i v i d u a l s who

d i d r e s e a r c h on p a r t i c u l a r problems f o r him, and h e used t h e i n f o r -

mation t h e y developed i n h i s speeches .

People a l s o wanted t o know who h i s gag man was. Again, he

d i d n o t have a gag man. With h i s wonderful memory and h i s g r e a t

s e n s e of t iming, h e is probably t h e f i n e s t s t o r y t e l l e r t h a t I know

and always seems a b l e t o t e l l one t h a t is very a p p r o p r i a t e .

Morr is : H e h a s had a l o t of exper ience over t h e y e a r s .

Hume : Of c o u r s e , . h e h a s had a l o t o f exper ience . B u t . h e h a s b e n e f i t t e d

from it.

Morr is : On t h e b roader s c a l e , was t h e thought t h a t i f you g o t t o g e t h e r a

group t h a t cou ld e l e c t such an e f f e c t i v e spokesman, t h i s would

e v e n t u a l l y b r i n g around a l a r g e r s e c t i o n of p u b l i c o p i n i o n t o t h e

i d e a s t h a t you were i n t e r e s t e d i n ?

Hume : Y e s , w e a l l hoped t h a t we could accomplish something f o r our coun t ry .

On t h e o t h e r hand, many y e a r s ago I p e r s o n a l l y came t o t h e conc lus ion

t h a t my e f f o r t s i n p o l i t i c s were f i g h t i n g b a t t l e s and t h a t even I

when we won them we were l o s i n g t h e war. I decided t h a t we were

going t o con t inue t o l o s e t h e war u n t i l we developed a body p o l i t i c

t h a t was more knowledgeable abou t b a s i c economics. Hopeful ly , such

an e l e c t o r a t e w i l l a p p r e c i a t e t h e i m p l i c a t i o n s o f p o l i t i c a l p r o p o s a l s

and r e j e c t t h o s e which are economically unsound.

Hume: An example of winning a g rea t p o l i t i c a l v i c t o r y and s t i l l cont inuing

t o l o s e t h e war has occurred r ecen t ly i n Ca l i fo rn i a . Reagan, when

he was governor, d id a g rea t dea l t o improve t h e f i s c a l condi t ion of

our s t a t e and improve t h e q u a l i t y of t h e people i n s t a t e government.

He put e x c e l l e n t people on commissions, appointed f i n e ind iv idua l s

t o t h e s t a t e cou r t s and improved the i n t e g r i t y of s t a t e government.

Now almost a l l t he se good th ings have been destroyed by h i s

successor .

Morris: Is t h a t perhaps i n d i c a t i v e of the f a c t t h a t t h e r e is a cons tan t

ebb and flow of i deas i n t he publ ic consciousness?

Hume: I th ink i t is because an ind iv idua l who is pr imar i ly p o l i t i c a l l y

motivated can confuse the publ ic and t r i c k i t i n t o making them think

t h a t publ ic programs a r e f r e e . J e r r y Brown is--well , i t is d i f f i c u l t

f o r me t o t a l k about him. I f e e l very upset with what he has done

t o t he s t a t e , because Ron had s t a r t e d i t on a f i n e path, i n my

opinion.

Morris: How much e f f e c t do o v e r a l l general economic condi t ions (over which

presumably one s t a t e cannot have an e f f e c t ) have a bear ing on what

happens t o a s t a t e f i n a n c i a l l y and admin i s t r a t i ve ly?

Hume : I do not th ink t h a t general economic condi t ions have much t o do wi th

t h e problems i n Sacramento we a r e fac ing now. The dec is ion t h a t

t h e s t a t e su rp lus was a bottomless we l l which could be used t o b a i l

ou t a l l l o c a l a c t i v i t i e s a f t e r the passage of Propos i t ion 1 3 is t h e

p r i n c i p a l cause of our f i s c a l problem. I f taxes had been c u t i n s t ead

of bu i ld ing up t h a t su rp lus , i t would have been much b e t t e r .

Morris: That was an i s s u e t h a t M r . Reagan had t o d e a l wi th , t oo , I under-

s tand .

Hume : Yes. I wish t h a t Reagan had c u t t axes more be fo re he l e f t . 1 t h i n k

i t ' s too bad t h a t he l e f t a t a x program which would produce such a

su rp lu s . It encouraged p o l i t i c i a n s t o con t inue t o fund programs

t h a t P ropos i t i on 1 3 s a i d by imp l i ca t i on t h e p u b l i c wanted c u r t a i l e d .

Transcr iber : I l anna Yuditsky F i n a l Typis t : Joan Carde l l ino

TAPE GUIDE -- J a q u e l i n Hume

Date o f I n t e r v i e w : January 26, 1982 t a p e 1, s i d e A t a p e 1, s i d e B t a p e 2, s i d e A t a p e 2, s i d e B n o t r ecorded

INDEX - Jaque l in Bume

a g r i c u l t u r e vegetable dehydrating, 1-3, 32

W C O Foods, Inc., 3 appointments, t o o f f i c e ,

guberna tor ia l , 16, 25, 32 1966-67 t r a n s i t i o n , committee on,

26-27, 29, 37 -.

Basic Vegetable Products Co., 2, 46 Boulware, Samuel R., 45-46 Brown, Edmund G., Jr. ( J e r r y ) , 48 Bush, George, 43 business , and government, 10, 13,

26, 30-34, 38, 44

Ca l i fo rn i a Republican Assembly, 19- 20

campaign f inance, 6-8, 12-14, 17- 18, 25, 41

campaign management, 19, 42 Chickering, Sherman, 15 Christopher, George

1966 primary campaign, 22-23 C i t i zens f o r Eisenhower, 4, 5,

9-10 conrmun i sm, an t i - communi am, 4 conservat ives , 10, 13, 15, 25, 26,

28, 42, 43 Cravens, Malcolm, 15 Curb, Mike, 42

Deaver, Michael K., 37-39 Democratic par ty , Democrats, 27 Douglas, Helen Gahagan,. 4

Eisenhower, Dwight D. 1952 campaign, 4, 8-10

e l e c t i o n s , 1950, 4 e l e c t i o n s , 1952, 4, 8-10 e l e c t ions, 1954, 5-6 e l e c t i o n s , 1964, 7-8 , 11, 14

e l e c t i o n s , 1966, 14-18, 20-25 e l e c t i o n s , 1968, 40-43 e l e c t i o n s , 1976, 42-43

f e d e r a l government spending, 10, 16, 28, 32 programs, 11 regula t ion , 11

Finch, Robert H., 43 Flournoy, Houston ( ~ u g h ) , 43

General E l e c t r i c Co., 44-46 Goldwater, Barry, Sr.

1964 p r e s i d e n t i a l campaign, 7-8, 11, 14, 17

governor, o f f i c e of (Ronald ~ e a g a n ) pro tocol , 35-36

Bume, William, 2, 32

Johnson, Gardiner, 15, 20

Kaiser , Leland, 15, 20 King, Warren, 301.1 Knowland, William F., 9-10

labor , and p o l i t i c s , 13 labor , and management, 44-46 l e g i s l a t u r e , Ca l i fo rn i a , 27-28 l i b e r a l s , 13, 15, 24 l i eu t enan t governor, o f f i c e o f , 43-

44

Madison, Mrs. Marshall, 15

Nixon, Richard, 4, 7, 9-10, 36 1968 campaign, 40-43 a s pres ident , 41, 43

Pacific Telephone Co., 32, 34 Parkinson, Gaylord B,, 23-24

Reagan, Ronald, 38-39' and foreign relations, 36 and General Electric Co, 44-46 as governor, 27, 30, 32, 36, 43,

47-50 philosophy of government, 15-16,

44-45 as president, 44, 47 as presidential candidate, 36-37,

40-43 steering committee, 20, 24, 25-

27, 36-37, 47 transition into governor's office,

25, 29 1966 campaign, 14, 15, 17, 20-24

Republican party, Republicans, California

California Plan, 5, 28 in San Francisco, 7 and 1966 campaign, 24 State Central Committee, 39-40

Republican party, Republicans, na t iona 1

1954 congressional campaign, 6 1968 presidential campaign, 40-41 1976 presidential campaign, 42-43

Rockefeller, Nelson ,

1964 presidential campaign, 8 Rubel, A, C. (Cy), 14

Salvatori, Henry, 12, 14 San Francisco, California

Republican County Central Committee, 7

labor unions in, 13 socialist party, socialists, 3, 11 state government

departmental reports, 20-21 improvement of, 31 spending, 16, 48-50 staffing, 29-30 task forces, 20, 30

Steel, Robert, 7

Task Force on Government Efficiency and Economy, 1966-67, 30-35

Thurmond, Strom, 42 transition, 1966-1967, 25-27, 29,

37 Tuttle, Holmes, 12, 14

voluntary organizations, volunteers, 19, 42

Warren, Earl 1952 presidential campaign, 9

Weinberger, Caspar, 15, 24

Regional Oral History Off i c e The Bancroft Library

University of California Berkeley, California

Government History Documentation Project Ronald Reagan Gubernatorial Era

Eleanor Ring Storrs

PARTIES, POLITICS, AND PRINCIPLES: "IT'S AT THE LOCAL LEVEL"

An Int erv iew Conducted by Sarah Sharp

1983

Copyright a 1984 by the Regents of the University of California

TABLE OF CONTENTS -- Eleanor Ring S t o r r s

I BIOGRAPHICAL NOTES 1 Ci t izens f o r Construct ive Action 1 Genealogy; Ca l i fo rn ia and San Diego Past 3 Gett ing In to P o l i t i c a l Act iv i ty : Opposition t o t h e Coronado Bridge 7

I1 POLITICS OVER THE YEARS 10 The Republican Party i n San Diego and Statewide Issues 10 The Goldwater Candidacy and t h e Republican National Convention, 1964;

General Notes on P o l i t i c a l Conventions 17 Republican National Committeewoman, 1968-1972 22 Addit ional Reminiscences: The Local Level, Ronald Reagan Then and

Now 29 Republican Campaigning, M r . Reagan, and Par ty P r inc ip l e s 3 1 Applause f o r Volunteers 35 The Republican Party, t he Long View 37

TAPE GUIDE 4 0

INDEX 4 1

* m I- 0\ l-l

Eleanor Ring 4 Storrs--a lady who pulls no A= e punches ,.

BY MARCIE BUCKLEY E k a m r R noldr R l q Storrr pulb no puncher

wbm ahe h%r about I r m e Important to her. especially when converaatloa centenaround the Amerlcan way of Ufe.

She Im intense, d m and qulckly soom8 to the point. punctuating her remarks often with a tap of her cirarette onto her Republican-Elephant-

'marrled Ellen Isabella Ryan In Sacremento In she served a s a member of the Coronado City ~1859. They established rerldence in San Dlego in Councll, a s National Committeewoman for a 1889 when Stewart was actlve In publlc affairs. Californla from 1968 to 1972. and, in various i serving five years on the San Dlego Clty Councll leadership capacltles In Republican assembly.

I and later a s a member of the BoardolEducation senate. gubernatorial and presldentiai cam- and the SanDlego Harbor Comrnl8slon. paigns. She Is also former presldent of the

Born In Tunkbannock. Penn. Eleanor moved Coronada Republican Women's Club and former 1

. . - . ,

tituder are learned a t home. m a t ' mentl" If It'r not learned a t home. I later becomes a matter for hlghcz

RWM Ring S t o m g r h olw of her Dalmotiwn. ' . , .

BureauMlddle Atlantic States, W~rh1ngton.D.C. Berkeley a s weU aa schoob in Europe. And most <.: are a very servlce-minded family, wlth a love or Mrr. Stom' maternal grandp~nt., were of her Uk to date-true to her upbringing-hqs . , .country and an obllgatlon to country. Not only ploowra ol San Mego CamQ. W l l l b Wallacs . been devoted to publlc servlcr. . . , . . ' country, but the community" Starart u m q t o Placer Countg, C.., in I q and . Among her manylnvolvements over the : ' In the lnteMlty of her Invoihrnent outside or

, . . . : . . :.. - . :a : . . , . .

. . . . . , . . . .. ; :, . . . .

he&lf, much of who Eleanor Ring Storrs is not immediately apparent.

Sdrely she has a sense of humor. How else could she own a collection of Republican elephants? She has warmth. How else could she share her home with three active dogs' She has strolg attachment to the earth. Why else would she spend time In her potting shed digging in the soil, resulting In splendld blooms plus one of the l a r e s t staghorn ferns In Coronado (too large to haulto the annual flower show)?

A ' she possesses a keen sense of hlstory. Orf irs t obervatlon. her home might appear

ovet#rowded wlth an incredible collectlon of mehrab i i i a and antique% Yet she has a family atmchment to everything

she possesses. There's the orlglnal Victorian Two-seater chalr from her grandparents and grandmother's rocking chair with its original uphobtery. There's the plaque dep~cting Grandfather Reynolds' service as Guard oI Honm in the funeral services of President Linc#n. Thete's the unusual family seashell colle&ion and the photos of shlps on which lam* members have served. There's signs f r o m Eleanor's politlcal Involvements--

REAGAN ... VOLUNTEERS FOR k%f::*n Uncle Sam doll. There's miniature shlpsfend anchon made of assorted materlaJs. The s the roller piano, the uprlght piano which came round the Horn, the antlque rugs.

Th 3 e are material reminders of the family herlt e- tradltlon plus service to country and com3nlty.

Elemor admits a t times certain Individuals have pot been happy with her actlvlties. She describes thelr attitudes as belng a bit "cross with me."

But 'not all of her Involvements have been politlcrl. Fot over 30 years, she has been actlve wlth the Amedcan Red Cross, especlally flrst I id Instruttion. She feeb very strongly about the need f6r such lnstructlon for everyone.

"It'l so Important for people to be able to help somebady when somethlng happens. People usuali don't know what to do.There's no excuse for 1 t .P '~ so Important that everybody knows a t least sdnpie first aid. It'8 people heiplng people. I wasrhised that way-try to help and be at least prepadd to docertain thlngs."

Eleahor expresses potent opinions. She says what s D thinks.

Her Mercedes beam IlcensC platen COP ERR (n6puuintendedl). - ,, . . ,'

BIOGRAPHICAL DATA 1 0 A u g u s t 1 9 8 1

. , S u b j e c t : 'f

S t o r r s , E l e q n o r ( ~ e , n o l d s ) ( ~ i n g ) , b o r n T u n k h - t n n o c k , P e n n s y l v s n i s . F o r m e r l y m s r r i e d S s n B i e g o C s l i f o r n i s 1 0 S e p t 1 9 3 2 t o t h e l s t e V i c e Admir - a l S t a n h o p e C o t t o n R i n g U.S.N., R t d . ( D e c e s s e d 1 9 6 3 ) . R e m s r r i e d 3 J u l y 1 9 7 6 R e s r A d m i r a l 9.Putnqrn S t o r r s , U.S.N. R t d . c h i l d r e n : *~HL, S t e w s r t f l n d r e w R i n g , -%. W i l l i a m R e y n o l d s R i n g , d e c e s s e d , L i e u t . U.S.N. S u s s n R i n g , w i f e o f C s p t s i n R o b e r t T s y l o r S c o t t K e i t h J r . ,U .S .N. G r s n d m o t h e r o f f i v e . D s u g h t e r o f P s y D i r e c t o r Z i b s W e l l s R e y n o l d s , U.S.N. a n d B e l l e S t e w s r t R e y n o l d s , -nd g r - t n d - d s u g h t e r o f T h e Hon. U i l l i s m N i c h o l - s R e y n o l d s , Member o f t h e P e n n s y l v s n i s H o u s e o f R e p r e s e n t s t i v e s , l s t e r D i r e c t o r o f P e n s i o n B u r e s u M i d d l e 4 t l q n t i c S t - t e s a t Wash- i n g t o n D . C . Mrs. S t o r r l s m s t e r n s l g r s n d p s r e n t s w e r e p i o n e e r s o f S s n D i e g o C o u n t y . Mr. U i l l i s m U s l l s c e S t e w s r t came t o P l s c e r C o u n t y , C - l i f o r n i s i n 1 8 5 2 s n d m s r r i e d s t S s c r s r n e n t o i n 1 8 5 9 Miss E l l e n I s s b e l l - R y s n . T h e y e s t s b l i s h e d r e s i d e n c e i n S s n D i e g o i n 1 8 6 9 w h e r e Mr. S t e w s r t , s w h o l e s s l e m e r c h s n t , wss s c t i v e i n p u b - l i c q f f - t i r s , s e r v i n g f i v e y e s r s o n t h e S s n D i e g o C i t y C o u n c i l s n d l a t e r -s s member o f t h e B o s r d o f E d u c s t i o n s n d t h e S s n D i e g o H q r b o r C o m m i s s i o n .

E d u c q t i o n : G k s d u s t e o f C o r o n - d o H i g h S c h o o l ; s t t e n d e d U n i v e r s i t y o,f C s l i f - o r n i a s t B e r k e l e y , q n d s c h o o l s i n E u r o p e .

P u b l i c 4 f f q i r s : ~ r e s i d e n t ( f o r m e r ) C o r o n - d o R e p u b l i c s n Womens C l u b , F e d e r a t e d ; f o r m e r P r e s i d e n t S-n D i e g o C o u n t y F e d e r s t i o n o f R e p u b l i c a n Women; f o r m e r B o s r d Member, S o u t h e r n D i v i s i o n , C s l i f o r n i s S t - t e F e d e r - t ~ d R e p u b l i c s n Womens C l u b s ; f o r m e r member CFRW S t s t e s n d S o u t h e r n D i v i s i o n B o s r d s ; f o r m e r V i c e C h - i r m s n R e p u b l i c a n S t a t e C e n t r s l C o m m i t t e e S o u t h ; 9 l t e r n s t e D e l e g - t e f o r N i x o n 1 9 6 0 , 1 9 6 8 ; D e l e - g s t e f o r N i x o n 1 9 7 2 ; D e l e g s t e f o r R o n s l d R e s g s n 1 9 7 6 ; 4 l t e r n s t e D e l e g s t e f o r G o l d w s t e r 1 9 6 4 ; Member o f E l e c t i o n C s m p s i g n C o m m i t t e e f o r G o v e r n o r R o n s l d R e s g s n , C o n g r e s s m s n B o b ' U i l s o n , S t ~ t e S e n s t o r J s c k S c h r s d e , s n d S t s t e Assemblymqn E. R i c h s r d B s r n e s ; N - t i o n 7 1 Commit teewoman f o r C s l i f o r n i s 1 9 6 8 - 1 9 7 2 ; Red C r o s s G r e y L s d y ; Red C r o s s M o t o r S e r v i c e ; f o r m e r 'member C o r o n s d o C i t y C o u n c i l ; '

V o l u n t e e r Red C r o s s F i r s t A i d I n s t r u c t o r now s p - i n s o v e r 3 0 y e - r s . Msnv o t h e r s .

R e l i g i o n : E p i s c o p s l P q t r i o t i c Q f f i l i ~ t i o n s :

Member O l i v e r W e t h e r b e e ~ h - p t e r ( ~ o r o n - d o ) D A R ; Member N ~ t i o n - 1 S o c i e t y , C o l o n i s l Dsmes o f 4 m e r i c q ; Member S o c i e t y o f S p o n s o r s o f T h e U n i t e d S t - t e s N-vy.

Home q d d r e s s 8 0 1 T o l i t s q v e n u e , C o r o n q d o , C a 1 i f o r n j . s 9 2 1 1 8 . T e l e p h o n e l i s t e d .

I BIOGRAPHICAL NOTES

Ci t i zens for Construct ive Action

[Date of Interview: February 15, 19831##

S t o r r s : Remember, he [Ronald Reagan] w a s [ i n ] p o l i t i c a l sc ience when he was i n co l lege , which sometimes people forget . So he was always i n t e r e s t e d i n government. We [C i t i zens f o r Construct ive Act ion] s t a r t e d having these meetings--one was up i n San Francisco. We would always meet a t t h e a i r p o r t , so it would be convenient f o r people. I remember, a g r ea t dea l of t h e t ime we interviewed people who sa id , "I want t o be governor," o r who wanted t o run f o r governor. Everybody from a d i s t i ngu i shed r e t i r e d genera l of t h e army to , oh, some p e r f e c t l y i n t e r e s t i n g , f a s c i n a t i n g people. Once they would ge t t h e ques t ions from t h i s group on t h e th ings , they'd s ay , "Huh? I d i d n ' t know t h a t i t was such and so. We l l , no, I t h i n k I don ' t wan t t o run."

Sharp: How many people did you end up in te rv iewing?

S to r r s : Oh, Lord, Frank Adams would have r e a l l y a l l of t h e no t e s and t h i n g s on it. But a t t h i s one meeting, we're doing t h e Ca l i fo rn i a p l a t fo rm you might say. It was i n San Francisco and we got i n t he b igges t row you've ever known, t h e no r th aga ins t t h e south--this has always been, t h e n o r t h a g a i n s t t h e south: "We're going t o do it t h i s way." "No, we ' re g o i n g t o do i t t h i s way." "I won't." We l l , t h i s went on f o r about two hours and we had gone through no agreement on about f i v e , s i x , o r seven t h i n g s f o r t h e platform. The pres ident [Ronald Reagan] was s i t t i n g back and he got up. ( I

##This symbol i n d i c a t e s t h a t a t ape o r a segment of a t ape has begun o r ended. For a guide t o t h e tapes see page 40.

suppose t h e r e were s i x t y people i n t h e room o r something l i k e that.) He sa id , " B i l l , can I have t h e f l o o r f o r a few minutes?"

Sharp: Now, who i s B i l l ?

, t o r r s : [William F.] Knowland. He sa id , "Sure, come on up.'' So he goes on up and he s a i d , "Now, look" (he d i d n ' t have a n o t e ) , h e s a i d , 'Xook, you guys a r e t a l k i n g about th i s . You want that . Now, couldn't we t ake t h a t and do it t h i s way? Wouldn't t h a t be agreeable t o both s ides? Wouldn't t h a t be what you a r e both t a l k i n g about?''

"Yes, ye;, okay."

Of course, he was t h e r e f o r about an hour. He went through every s ing le one of t hese d i f f e r e n t planks g iv ing both s i d e s each t ime and saying, '%ut t h e so lu t ion , t h e proper t h ing t o do would be so and so." When he f in i shed , everybody i n t he room got up and cheered and s t a r t e d looking a t each other. "Aha, Aha," and tha t ' s when people were saying, "He ought t o run f o r governor."

Sharp: Why could he do t h a t ?

S to r r s : Because he i s a b r i l l i a n t man and people don't r e a l i z e it. He i s one of these guys t h a t g e t s up i n t he crack of dawn and does h i s study work and so for th . He has a very b r i l l i a n t mind which people don't r e a l i z e .

Anyway, a f t e r t h a t a number of u s sa id , "He i s going t o have run f o r governor. So it was a t h ing of saying, "Would you consider running f o r governor?" He would say, "Of course, not! I n t he f i r s t place, Nancy [Mrs. Reagan] would never s tand f o r it. She doesn't l i k e t h a t s o r t of t h ing and it wouldn't be good f o r t he ch i ld ren and besides I 'm scared t o fly!" (He used t o d r ive a l l of t h e time.)

So f i v e months l a t e r he had come down here t o a meeting i n San Diego. There were about f i f t e e n hundred women t h e r e and he was speaking on government and so f o r t h and so on. That whole group j u s t went absolutely--you know. Afterwards, he had in t e rv i ews w i t h people i n San Diego County a l l afternoon. A t one s tage we had been t a l k i n g about it. [I s a i d ] , "When d i d you ge t i n t o t h i s ? With t h e San Francisco meeting l i k e a l o t of o the r people did, too? We r e a l i z e d t h a t you had the c a p a b i l i t i e s , you knew the s t a t e we l l , you had been an organizer , you had headed up your [Screen Actors] Guild t h ing and kept peace i n t he re (which c e r t a i n l y was a very complicated th ing and a very complicated organiza t ion) , and we j u s t f e l t t he re was no ques t ion t h a t you were the bes t qua l i f ied . When d id vou make up your mind t h a t you had t o do it, t h a t it was an ob l iga t ion and something t h a t was necessary f o r t h i s s t a t e ? "

Which of these possible candidates would YOU l ike t o see become the Republican nominee for Governor of California in 1966.

Thonas H. Kuchel

George Chris topher

Goodnn Knight

Bob Monaghan

Max Ftafferty

Ronald Reagan

Joe Shell

C omrnents

This short questionnaire is from Mrs. Storrs's collection of California political materials.

A t one s tage he sa id , "I thought t h i s over very s e r i o u s l y a f t e r I in te rv iewed i n San Diego and everything when I was dr iv ing home t o P a c i f i c Pal isades. I s a t down and t a lked t h e whole th ing over w i t h Nancy1'--because he always has done t h i s s o r t of thing. He very o f t e n would be i n something and he would say, 'Qm, l e t me go home and k i ck t h i s around w i t h Nancy. I would l i k e t o see what she th inks about it." He has always been t h i s way, very qu ie t ly , no b ig f an fa re kind of thing. But, of course, she i s a ve ry b r i l l i a n t woman. She went t o Chicago G i r l s L a t i n School, t h a t was he r background. I had never known she had gone t o t h e Chicago G i r l s L a t i n School, which I had gone t o one year.

Sharp: Oh, i s t h a t r i g h t ?

S t o r r s : Yes. This was a t some meeting up i n Los Angeles and she had t o speak. This was l a t e r and, oh, boy, she was scared, of course. A t one s tage they asked her , "Where d id you go t o school?" So she t o l d them Chicago G i r l s L a t i n School and so f o r t h and so on. Afterwards, when we l e f t , we were i n t h e g i r l s ' room before she was going home and I sa id , "Lord, I didn't know you went t o Chicago G i r l s because I was t h e r e one year." She turned t o me and she sa id , '!Do you know it i s no longer Chicago G i r l s L a t i n School?'' I sa id , "What do you mean?" She sa id , "They have combined Boys and G i r l s L a t i n Schools. It i s t h e L a t i n School now.'' I s a i d , "Oh, h o r r o r s l ' ' She s a i d , "I a g r e e w i t h youl'' Because when it was a g i r l s ' school, t he a t h l e t i c s t h i n g was one of t h e b ig things. Well, t h e minute you g e t t h e boys' and t h e g i r l s ' school together--

Sharp: Tha t ' s it! This was a high school now?

S to r r s : Yes, a high school, a p r i v a t e school i n Chicago r i g h t t he re off of Lakeshore Drive. Do you know where t h e Drake Hotel i s ? It was j u s t up Por t e r S t r e e t .

[ laughs] Oh, Lord! But I had been t h e r e yea r s before she was, but I went t o a d i f f e r e n t school every year of my school l i f e .

Genealogy; Ca l i fo rn i a and San Dieno Pas t

Sharp : Were' you a navy family then?

S t o r r s : Yes.

Sharp: There was a l o t of moving around and a l l of t h a t ?

Sto r r s : Yes, always i n t o t h e moving. Then my mother was a Cal ifornian, my f a t h e r was a Pennsylvanian. My Grandfather Stewart came ac ross t h e p l a i n s [wi th ] oxen and team. Grandmother Stewart , oh, her mother, they were French-Irish from the Lake Champlain area. Her s i s t e r marr ied a medical doctor and he wanted t o come t o California . This was i n t h e f i f t i e s . Her mother said, "I would not a l low a daughter of mine . t o go out t h e r e alone. Her s i s t e r w i l l go w i t h her.'' And tha t ' s how my grandmother [came]. [ laughs] They went by boat down t o Panama, by burro ac ross Panama--by burro ac ross Panama!--and then by sh ip up t o San Francisco. Then she met Grandpa i n Sacramento. They were married i n Sacramento a t t he s h e r i f f ' s home. He was then a miner, of course,. i n Place~il le--Hangtown. But he was t h e deputy s h e r i f f I th ink bas i ca l ly because he was s i x f e e t t a l l and a good guy. That was an honorary job a t t h a t stage. They had t h e volunteer f i r e departments, of which he was a l s o a member.

My mother was born i n Hangtown before it was P l a c e ~ i l l e . That's when they moved t o San Diego because Grandpa said, 'This i s no place t o r a i s e childrenm--and a t t h a t s tage the re were four-- 'I and we a r e going t o move. Anyway, I am going in to the wholesale shipping business," which he did.

He worked h i s way across. We came wi th the f r e e e n t e r p r i s e system a l l r ight . His f a t h e r didn't want him t o come t o California . They were from Bellefont , Pennsylvania. They were t h e S tewar ts t h a t had f l e d t h e Bonny Prince Char l ie thing. I don't know, i f they hadn't f l e d , they would have a 1 1 been hung o r something. They came o r i g i n a l l y t o New Hampshire and then they got t h e land g ran t from William Penn and moved down t o Bellefont.

H i s f a t h e r , John Stewart , d id not want him t o go t o California . But a f r i e n d of h i s f a the r ' s said, 'Tes, I agree wi th you." So he only got a s f a r a s Lou i sv i l l e , Kentucky, He didn't have any money. So he didn't come out i n [I81 '49. He didn't come out u n t i l '51. But he was smart enough, he was working i n a warehouse, t o make enough money t o come. He went t o Commercial College i n Louisv i l le , Kentucky and, by God, i f I didn't f i n d (I've got it r i g h t here) h i s c e r t i f i c a t e a t t he Lou i sv i l l e Commercial College. He graduated i n June of '51 and then came out t h a t summer t o California . They were a l l wagon t r a in .

Probably i n Arizona they were a t tacked by probably Apache, a l l l e f t f o r dead. But he and t h i s o ther guy were not dead. They got themselves together. S i x of the oxen were t h e r e and so they got a wagon and the s i x oxen, and they made t h e i r way up and ended up in-where i s i t ? I was going t o say Death Valley, but i t i sn ' t ; up i n northern Ca l i fo rn ia up near Hangtown. Spring Valley. They ended up there , sold t h e oxen f o r $100 each, which was a tremendous amount of money. So they each had a $300 stake t o s t a r t out with.

Sharp :

Storr s :

Sharp :

Storr s :

Sharp :

Storr s:

Sharp :

Storr s :

Sharp :

Storrs :

That 's a l o t of money.

You bet it was. [laughs] But they did things. That's par t of the thing. I was ra i sed t o go and do th ings t h a t need t o be done f o r a community o r a [cause]--that 's how I got a l l mixed up i n t h i s s t u f f .

/

So you have brothers and s i s t e r s ?

My brother was Capt. Stewart Shir ley Reynolds, USN Retired, and he has passed away. My s i s t e r i s Ruth Reynolds Murray (Mrs. Paul) here i n Coronado. She was musical. There was a g rea t deal of music i n the family. She was the f i r s t s o l o i s t wi th the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Then she married and she has been widowed many years. She i s not wel l a t a l l . She has t o have nurses around the clock wi th her. I ' m the baby i n the family.

Did your s i s t e r ge t involved i n some of the Republican a c t i v i t i e s ?

No, because she was only involved i n a l l of the musical s t u f f ; t h a t is, she would go e a s t l a t e r on picking the Metropolitan Opera people from the people out here i n California. You know how they have t h a t musical s tu f f and they interview people and everything a t t h a t time. Then she usually would go e a s t t o New York where they would have the f i n a l s f o r who was going t o be picked t o be able t o go in to the Metropolitan and those kind of things.

Did your parents l i v e t o see you involved i n some of the p o l i t i c a l work?

My f a t h e r died when I was eleven years old. My mo'ther died when I was twenty-four.

Were you already married by t h a t time?

Yes, I had been married and divorced. I was married the f i r s t t ime when I was twenty-really agains t the family's wishes. Mother s a i d , "He's t o o old." He was t e n y e a r s o l d e r t h a n I was. He was a naval avia tor , Mort Seligman and of the Seligman f a i l y of Sante Fe, New Mexico. I might t e l l you t h a t h i s mother, f a the r , and I and h i s uncle, Uncle Pete [Seligman], who became governor of New Mexico, remained absolutely close friends. When I came back here t o ge t a divorce--because he got t o drinking, he always had--his uncle, who was governor of New Mexico, came out t o see me. I said, "Uncle Pete, a r e you mad a t me?" He said, "No, I t o t a l l y agree wi th you. Why i s he drinking the way he i s a s my son i s ? What happened wi th us t h a t we have two sons t h a t a r e bas ica l ly alcoholic?" I said, "Uncle Pete, I don't know." And I have never known whether it was because t h e i r mothers were Protes tants and the background was Jewish and they f e l t something o r o ther i n here.

Uncle Pe te said, "Look, I am governor of t h e s t a t e of New Mexico. You a r e going t o come and s t a y w i t h Aunt Frank and me and I w i l l g ive you any job i n t he s ta te . " I sa id , "Uncle Pete , "I couldn' t. " [ laughs 1

Then my mother decided [ I should s t a y w i t h her a f t e r t he divorce]--remember when you used t o have an in t e r locu to ry decree and so f o r t h ? So mother hadn't been very w e l l and she had t h i s g r e a t f r i e n d of hers , Grace [Timkin Burt] , they were r a i s e d toge ther i n San Diego. She marr ied W i l l Timkin of Timkin r o l l e r bearings and t h a t s o r t of thing--enormously wealthy--and she and my mother had grown up together. whenqshe died, she l e f t mother $10,000. We had no money. My mother had a pension of $50 a month and my brother , an ensign, s en t her $100 a month and tha t ' s what we had t o l i v e on. People say, "Oh, gee, of course you were raised--."

My poor mother never learned how t o cook because when she was young i n San Diego i n t he o l d house, Mother s a i d t h e t a b l e was never s e t f o r l e s s than twenty because everybody could always br ing f r i e n d s home; a Chinese cook, and Chinese vegetab le boys--they used t o c a l l them, and nobody could go near t he kitchen. I f anybody would go i n t o the kichen the cook . sa id : , "Get ou t of my kitchen." So none of them ever learned t o cook o r anything l i k e that. Of course, remember t h i s was the boom and bust days i n San Diego. Whenever they had good r a i n s , t h e r e would be dandy crops and wery - body--gee, it was g rea t , and then they'd have a drought. Ha! And everybody went bust you might say.

My grandfa ther helped Quon Mane g e t s t a r t e d i n business. That is a Chinese name. Quon Mane came--his uncle was the cook--and he came a s a vegetable boy i n t h e Stewart household. My grandfather f e l t he was e n t i r e l y too smart. When he was about f i f t e e n he took him down t o h i s warehouse and had him l e a r n things. So today I read t h a t it was George Marston who s t a r t e d him i n business and, sure, George Marston d id help, but it was Grandpa bas ica l ly . He opened h i s own l i t t l e shop, Quon Mane, but was always known i n the f ami ly a s Amen. [ laughs]

Many years l a t e r we used t o have a Quon Mane s t o r e here i n Coronado. I was going i n t h e r e t o g e t some wedding 'presents and things, and I look a t t h i s Chinese boy and I say, "What Quon a r e you?" He sa id , "I'm King." I sa id , "What r e l a t i o n a r e you t o Amen?" He looked a t me and sa id , "You c a l l e d him Amen?" I sa id , "Yes." He sa id , "Who a r e you?" I sa id , "My grandfather was William Wallace Stewart and my mother was Bel le Stewart." He.said, "Oh, I ' m sorry! One th ing we were a l l t o l d was t h a t a t no t ime [when] any member of t h e Stewart f ami ly ever came f o r anything would they pay; you may have anything i n t he shop." I sa id , 'Wow, wai t , s t op it!"

He said, "No, no, I have been ve ry f i r m l y instructed." When Amen was dying my Aunt Kate, who was s t i l l a l i v e (she was t h e o l d e s t g i r l ) , he c a l l e d f o r her and she went up t o Mercy Hospi tal and s a t t h e r e w i th him. He sa id , "Before I d i e I want t o t e l l you t h a t I have informed my fami ly about what t h e S tewar t f ami ly d id f o r u s a l l t h e way along t h e l i n e , t h e two o lde r g i r l s " ( t h a t were named f o r t h e S tewar t fami ly you might say) "what your grandfa ther d id a l l through t h e yea r s and none of u s can ever, ever repay and I want you t o know t h i s , Miss Kate." (It was Miss ate.) Aunt Kate, ah, she was a mass of ru ins , of course, because she adored him. They a l l were r e a l close.

So I s a i d t o t h i s k i d , I s a i d , "Look, what you a r e d o i n g t o me, 1'11 never be ab l e t o come i n t o t h e s t o r e again, and I love t h e th ings you have. I happen t o be very fond of Chinese th ings and I would be very fond of g e t t i n g wedding p re sen t s t h a t a r e t hese s o r t s of things. Now you a r e going t o s top me. I don't want t h i s t o happen and so you a r e going t o have t o change o r I w i l l never walk i n here again." So anyway, he went and got on t h e phone and t a lked t o somebody. We f i n a l l y agreed t h a t I could pay f o r those s o r t of th ings , but, my l i t t l e boys were a year and t h r e e years o r something and he picked ou t l i t t l e t r e a t s t o go home f o r t h e kids. So I sa id , "Al l r i g h t , 1'11 accept this!" [ l augh te r ] Old t ime San Diego, you know.

Sharp: Oh, t h a t is. That goes back a long way.

S t o r r s : But t h i s i s not p o l i t i c s . This i s old--I shouldn't ge t on w i t h t h a t .

Ge t t i nq i n t o P o l i t i c a l Ac t iv i tv : O ~ ~ o s i t i o n t o t h e Coronado Bridge

Sharp: I am i n t e r e s t e d t o know what you thought about g e t t i n g i n t o r e a l p o l i t i c a l a c t i v i t y ?

S to r r s : Again, I th ink i t 's a t t h e l o c a l level . People must pay a t t e n t i o n t o government where they a r e and, of course, a s I say, I begin w i t h family, mother and t h e ch i ld ren and t h e family. Then your l o c a l level--pay a t t e n t i o n , go t o your counci l meetings, f i n d out what t h e c i t y i s doing, o r i f you a r e i n another a rea , go and see what t h e superv isors a r e doing on t h e county level. Pay a t t e n t i o n ; don't l e t it a l l just--"who's doing what?"

Sharp: You were t e l l i n g me about t h e bridge, t h e Coronado Bridge, and t h e oppos i t ion t h a t you personal ly had t o it, and t h a t you made it a broader opera t ion , a s i t were.

Sto r r s : A l o t of us f e l t we wanted t o s t a y t o a g r e a t ex t en t i so la ted . We loved t h e f e r r y boats t h a t went over. A g rea t many of our businessmen here would walk t o t h e f e r r y , would go ac ros s and walk t o t h e i r o f f i c e s o r take t h e i r b ikes and bike, which they enjoyed thoroughly. They didn't have t o park t h e i r cars , didn ' t have t o g e t i n t o anything l i k e that . We had loads of ch i ldren , remember; before we had a Cathol ic school here, they went over t o t h e Cathol ic schools i n San Diego. They could g e t on t h e i r bikes and no problem, and a l s o young ones going t o t h e business schools over t h e r e and th ings of t h i s na tu re where they didn ' t have t h e money f o r ca r s and t h a t [ t h e br idge] cu t t h a t a l l out.

Sharp: Now about when d id you s t a r t t h i s p e t i t i o n 'dr ive? Probably '57?

S to r r s : Yes, '56 o r '57, somewhere i n there.

Sharp: Yes, because i t was, of course, when Goodie [Goodwin J.] Knight was governor then.

S t o r r s : Yes.

Sharp: How d id you make t h e l eap then from--

S t o r r s : Because I went and worked f o r Bob [Robert C.] Wilson f o r Congress.

Sharp: During h i s f i r s t campaign f o r Congress?

S to r r s : No, no, t h i s must have been '58. It was t h e f i r s t t ime I had go t t en involved. Then I joined my [Coronado] Republican Women's Club and I became pres ident of t h a t , i n 1960 o r 1961. I d id prec inc t f o r t h e county and then I became county pres ident [San Diego County Federat ion of Republican Women]. When? Well, i t ' s i n there. Doesn't it show? 11962-19631

Sharp: [looking through papers] Let 's see. Maybe i t 's i n one of t hese a r t i c l e s t h a t you gave me.

S t o r r s : See, I even save th ings l i k e t h i s because I admire t he president.* [ laughs I

Sharp: Oh, t ha t ' s wonderful. So t h i s i s a copy of one of t h e t a l k s then?

S to r r s : Yes, when he was working f o r General Elec t r ic . He came down here and spoke t o American Red Cross.

*See fol lowing pages.

RONALD REAGAN

Host, Ceneml Electric Theatre

Losing F r e e d o m b y

I n s t a l l m e n t s

Today all of us are convinced that the No. 1 problem in the world is the dispute between the free world and Soviet slavery. Here the situation has been highly ~ublicized and yet the American people are confused, dis- turbed by a frustrating sense of fail- ure. a desire ior action but at the same time a concern that aotion might result in war.

The enemv is not confused. To him the course is very clear-he knows he is in a war now. This conflict was declared more than a century ago by Karl Marx. Half a century later Sicolai Lenin, the interpreter of Marx, made of this phony philosophy a Godless religion, with himself as the Messiah. He reaffirmed that declara- tion of war by stating it was incon- ceivable that communism and capi- talism should exist for a long period side by side in the world, and that ul- timately one or the other must con- quer. Carefully and painstakingly, but openly, they put into print their plans for our destruction. All of it including the timetable, is available and as near as our public library.

Wiil, arluganl cyni-;ism they ea) that our ignorance of their tactics and strategy, their aims and objec- tives is communism's greatest weapon. In 1923 Lenin announced that comrnunisrn would take Eastern Europe, organize the hoards of Asia and then surround that last bastion of capitalism, the United States, without even having had to take it. In Lenin's own words, the United States would fall into his outstretched hand like overripe fruit. As we look at the beachhead 90 miles off our Florida coast we know how far they've pro- gressed with that plan.

Carefully, with great calculation, the communists gauge their aggres- sion-slicing each new gain just thin enough so that we'll say, "That isn't worth fighting for." They predict that when we reach the final slice our surrender will be voluntarv because we will have been weakerld from within-morally, spiritually, and eco- nomically.

They have harnessed the fear of war instead of war itself-knowing that surrender at the conference table - ~

can be just as complete as surrender on the battlefield. Indeed, they prob- ably have no intention of testing our armed might. They know, even if we don't, that ours is the greatest mili- tary power in all the world. You and I, and all free men everywhere, owe our freedom to the determination and dedication of our men in uniform who stand as the only bamer to world slavery.

, Mr. Khrushchev has said that capi- ' talism will inevitably evolve into com-

munism, but not all at once. He says 1 , there will first come an intermediate

stage of socialism. Supremely confi- dent of victory, d-.e conlrilunists say we will give up more and more of our democratic practices under the pres- sure of the cold war until one day we'll waken to find we have become so much like the enemy that the rea- sons for enmity will have disap- wared.

Haven't we been trying to fight communists without really fighting communism? There is a liberal phi- losophv that seems to think of com- . . munism as simply an extension of extreme liberalism and that Soviet police state brutality is not an integ-

. ral part of communism but ia rather

an error superilnposed on the political syrtenl. Those motivated by this so- called liberal pllilosoplly believe the solutiol~ to the cold war is to refrain from any overt act that would anger the Inell in the Kremlin, while our o1\.11 system is reshaped into a gov- ernnlent col~trolled and directed economy. As we move left, the rough- necks in the Kremlin, ashamed of their ways, will supposedly come a little right and the conflict will dis- solve in one world Utopia.

Tlle liberal campaigns for more and Illore participation by the fed- eral government in areas heretofore the province of the state, community and individual. The only common denominator needed to win their sup- port of any legislation is the extent to which it will increase the Dower and authority of the central govern- ment.

It would be immoral and the height of folly to infer these people are less patriotic than ourselves. They are sin- cerely nluiivniml by h e IIIVSL Lullla~li- tarian of ideals, but it would be equally foolish to let them have their way without opposition. If someone is setting fire to the house, it doesn't matter if he is a deliberate arsonist or just a fool playing with matches, the damage will be the same. "

We can lose our freedom all at once by succumbing to Russian aggres- sion, or we can lose it gradually by installments-the end result is slav- ery. Professor Schlesinger says "The political argument- for the welfare state is that the welfare state is the best insurance against revolution." This just isn't true. Our defense against communism is individual free- - dom and our free economy.

This fight isn't new. In 1917 one of the truly great labor statesmen, Sam- uel Gompers, founder of the A. F. L. said, "Compulsory social insurance is in its essence undemocratic and it cannot remove or prevent poverty. The workers of America adhere to voluntary institutions in preference to compulsory systems, which are held to be not only impracticable, but a menace to their rights, welfare and their liberty. Compulsory sickness in- surance for workers is based upon the theory that they are unable to look after their own interests and the state must interpose its authority and wis- dom and assume the relation of par- ent or guardian.''

Under high flown phrases "free-

dom from want," "human rights," we see the federal government laying its hand on housing, health, farming, industry and educaion.

An illustration of this is the legis- lative battle that has raged over fed- eral aid to education. Knowing the normal desire of all of us to provide the utmost for our children. we have been told that an adequate educa- tional program is impossible unless we turn to the federal government for subsidy. An emergency situation is described involving crowded class- rooms, teachers who are underpaid and too few in number. In the face of this we learn that 99.5 per cent of our school districts have not reached their limit of bonded indebtedness. Tlle construction of classrooms has been increasing at a faster rate than that of student enrollment in the past decade. A 41 per cent increase in stu- dent enrollment from 1950 to 1960 has been matched by a 125 per cent increase in spendinp at the state and local levels over the same period. According to the educationists 60,000 classrooms must be constructed every year for the next 10 years if every child is to have the opportu- nity of a full-day education in an adequate classroom. These people seem to have forgotten to mention the fact that we have been building an average of 70,000 classrooms a year for the last five years. A con- tinuation of this rate, according to some informed sources, may give us a surplus of classrooms by 1970 and it is more probable that sometime in the i360's school construction will start to decline. Nor do they tell us that it has been estimated that the post war baby boom has been passed and that in the immediate years ahead the increase in the rate of enrollment is expected to decrease.

Teachers have been underpaid, but we are making progress without federal aid. In these first several years the average salary of teach- ers has risen from $3100 to $5200 a year for generally nine months of work. Little evidence has been intro- duced which indicates a need exists for federal aid. The professional edu- cationists lobby (on; of the biggest spenders in Washington) denies fed- eral control plays any part in their plans, but in truth, a federal school system is the entire basis for the school aid plan. The foot in the door was the Kational Defense Education

8b Act of 1958. Graham Barden, the former chairman of the House Edu- cation 8 Labor Committee, report- edly said that the purpose of the cur- rent $2.5 billion federal aid bill is to centralize power over the school system here in Washington so that it will be easier to apply concentrated pressure.

Twenty-seven years ago the gov- ernment assured the farmer that sub- sidy didn't mean control. Then a farmer named Haley discovered he could be fined $4000 for raising wheat on his own land and feeding it to his own cattle. The fine was up- held by the Supreme Court with a single sentence ruling that said, in effect, that an agency of the Federal Government has the right to tell a citizen what he can grow on his own land for his own use. Thus the Court practically cancelled out the 4th Amendment to the Constitution-our protection against search and seiz- ure. If federal farm agents think a

and it will also pay you to fertilize your land so as to increase the crop yield. Last year the government lost 4.5 million acres of corn land. The government paid $150 million to keep it from being planted, and now it develops that the 4.5 million acres don't even exist, according to Senator John Williams of Delaware.

This "farm mess" involves only 1/5th of agriculture--80 per cent of the farm economv is still out in the free market regulated only by the law of supply and demand. Com- mon sense would indicate the answer should be to get that subsidized 20 per cent out into that same free market, indeed responsible farm groups have so advocated. To the bureaucrats the only solution was to bring the other 80 per cent info the government program. Congress was presented with a bill that cculd have resulted in the licensing of every farm in America. the complete con- trol of production and price, and

District Five Vicc Prcsidcnt Slauphtcr ond Mn. Slaughter, Mr. ond Mrz Wehrttr with Ronald Reagan (Center).

farnlcr is violati~lg a regulatiotl-not a la\\-, nlilid you, but a regulatiot~ of a bureau-they pronounce the farmer guilty atid impose a fine without even a forn~al hearing, let alone a trial by jury. If the fine is 11ot paid, . .

they can seize j~rcq~ert!.. The far111 prclprani's reasoti for

being is tlie co~itrt~l c ~ f ~ P \ . C ~ I I ~ O ( I I I I . - tioti. Billiclr~s arc. $petit to store sur- plus farm products, atitl iidditint~al I)illiclr~s are 5petlt to reclaitl~ desert lalid and put it into ~)roduc.tioti. Tllr government \%ill pay you I I I I ~ to 11lntit

artificial shortages to bring about a 15 to 25 per cent raise in the price of foodstuffs. Right no\<, under the feed grain program, we are told co- operation is volu~itary, but the Sec- rctary of Agriculture has the author- it!. to dump surplus grain on the market to break the price atid force r~ori-participants to join.

.lleclicit~e is an area dear to the Ileart of tlie statist. Governn~etit par- tic-ipation call be so easily justified

\

I P I ~ huti~at~itariat~ groutlds. lo one warlte to appear utis).inl~athetic to

those in need of medical care. Today this country has the costliest

government liospital plan in the world-the Veterans Administration program. No one of us opposes the ides that a man disabled in the serv- ice of his country should be given the h e s t of medical and hospital care. I'm sure no one protested some years ago when it was suggested that a vet- eran not wounded in military service, but who was in need of medical at- tention and destitute, should be cared for in a VA hospital if the bed was .

not required for a patient with a service-connected disability. Today 3 out of 4 VA hospital beds are filled with patients suffering diseases or injuries neither originated by nor aggravated by military service. And each year the budget provides for ex- pansion of the VA hospital facilities.

During the 86th Congress, former Congressman Forand introduced a bill, HR 4700, to provide a national program of governmeut health in- surancc. His bill was overwhelmingly rejected. Now a re-write of that bill, limiting the benefits of citizens of Social Security age, is introduced. Proponents of h e measure present an emotional sppeal describing the plight of millions of senior ciitzens, ailing and ~vitllout the means to pro- vide adequate care. To oppose this measure is to be accused of throwing our elder citizens out to die. But what are the fact '?

In the last 10 years, 127 million Americans have acquired some form of medical or hospital it~surance. Seventy per cent of our people are so protected, including 2/3rds of our senior citizens. At the present rate of increasc, it is estimated that 90 per cent of the populaticn will be cov- ered by 1970.

As nearly as we can determine, the problem involves less than 10 per cent of the elderly who would not be able to finance needed medical care. To this end, the 86th Congress adopted the Kerr-Mills bill to provide federal funds to the states. Without waiting for this to be put into effect, - the advocates of the insurance meas- ure claim the only answer to the problem is compulsory government health insurance for all, regardless of need. Never mind if the individual is already insured, has an ample in- come or possesses great wealth. Pcr- Imps there is a clue to tllrir true purpose it] remarks tilade by now EL-

Congressman Forand who has mid, that if we could only break through and get our foot inside the door, hen we could expand the program after that. Like ah echo comes a pam- 11l1let from the Socialist party en- tilled. "The Case for Socialized Medi- he.'' It ELIYS:

"We can do everything possible to encourage federal intervention, the financing of medical costs on a bit by bit basis, and we can work to direct such intervention, so that if it isn't socialized medicine proper, at least it paves the way for socialized medi- cine."

It would be well for us to keep in mind that if you socialize the doctor, you can socialize the patient as well.

The flagship of the liberal cause is Social Security. It is offered as the proven vehicle for the medical in- surance program. We are told that here is a goveri~ment insurance pro- giam in which we and our employers pay into a fund so that someday ~ I I

cur non-earning years we will call on this, our own money, to see US

through. Of course this isn't what officials of Social Security told the Supreme Court in a recent lawsuit. They said Social Security wasn't actually insurancebut they used that term to sell it to the people. So- cial Security dues are a tax for the general use of the government and payment of that tax does not auto- matically entitle anyone to the receipt of benefits. The bcnefits are a welfare program whicl~ can be cancelled or curtailed by Congress at any time.

In 1935 that tax was 2 per cent of 93000 of income. Today it is 6 per cent r i $4C00. If this medical aid bill is ~3 .ed: thc individual and employ- ers' combined contribution will, by 1968, increa~e from $288 to $444. Tl~is is based on a ceiling of $5200 of income, but the Secretary of Health Education and Welfare recently told a congressional committee he fore- sees a ceiling of perhaps $9000 on the amount taxed for Social Security. There are others who oppose any ceiling-who say the tax should be levied against total income.

In this insurance program that is not insurance, we who are participat- ing are unfunded to an amount more than $300 billion. In a proposal to make Social Security voluntary, Con- gressman Rousselot has pointed out that the young mall 20 or 21 years of age, starting out at an average sal-

ary, must, with his employer, con- tribute $1.69 for every dollar he'll receive in benefits.

Turning from domestic welfare to the international scene, we find the same pattern of getting a "foot in the door" then freezing into permanence the temporary expedient. In the days following World War 11, Senator Ar- thur Vandenburg gave his bi-parti- soti blessing to foreign aid with these words, "We are not suddenly re- solved to underwrite the earth. That would be fantastic, improvident and impossible. The plan is for 15 months." It is now 15 years, and more than $100 billion later. The orighal 19 countries to be helped ha\e bccome 97. Let's ignore the temptation to talk about items such as h e road in South Viet Nam which we started to build for $18 million and wliich isn't finished yet, at $125 million.

All sucl~ things we could swallow if free world strength, solidarity and friendship had resulted. We spent more per capita in Laos than in any other country. Cuba is on the book for $2.5 billion. In these 15 years, communism has, in addition, ab- sorbed China, North Viet Nam, and Tibet. Inroads have been made in Indonesia, Iran and Syria. They've tightened their grip on East Ger- many, Poland and Hungary. We've financed socialism in India, where the communist party has grown from 4 to 12 million in 5 years. In Bolivia part of our money was used to na- tionalize the tin mines, which re- duced heir output 50 per cent. Tl~anks in part to Yankee dollars, the cost of living in Bolivia rose over 250 per cent in 1956 alone. Last year the Bolivians staged the worst anti- American riots in South American history. Creating bureaucracy here and in tlie receiving nations we have in effect exported socialism under the utopia11 ideal of world democracy aud social revolution.

We talk private enterprise at home, while we finance nationalization of industry all over the world. But that I

shouldn't surprise us. In May 1960 during testimony be-

fore the Senate Small Business Sub- committee on Relations of Business with Government, Elmer B. Staats, Deputy Director of the Bureau of the Budget, said that as of July 31, 1959, the govern~iient owlled a~rd ogerotc-rl - 17,507 businesses. A Subcommittee

on the Hoover Commission forind that as of the end of 1954, the De- partment of Defense alone was ac- tively engaged in activities covering 47 categories ranging from coffee roasting to manufacturing surgical and dental equipment. Operating theae busin- in most instances, tax free, rent free, dividend free, in com- petition with our own citizens, the government loses billions of dollars each year.

The Depressed Areas bill enacted into law on May 1 has put govern- ment's foot in the door of direct con- trol of job training and placement, including subsidy and relocation of industries and at the same time lies created the biggest potential pork barrel of all time.

We subsidized public housing orig- inally so that no one should be forced to live in degradation. Now people of better than average income are dwlarcd eligible for such a subsidy and the Chicago Public Housing Au- thority announces a plan to add swimming pools, and recreational facilities, including professional di- rectore.

These are just a few of the things that have led to the creation of a per- manent structure of government so complex it is virtually beyond con- gressional control, and certainly is ~lf-perpetuating. Congressman Utt has suggested that we are rapidly coming to a point where a complete

I change of elected officials, including Congress and the White House, can meari little change in policy. W m ~ r n e d more and more by' people for whom we bave never-voted-70': whom we never will vote, a n d x m - - -.. wccannot recall by our .vote.-Even at Cabinet level, 'much of &e policy is set by Civil Service employees who have been with the department for 20 vears. They have no intention now or dver of recommending to the Secre- tary any policy which does not fit their personal philosophy of govemmmt. This is a form of invisible govern- ment and can lead to the most op- pressive type of tyranny.

Two years ago a subcommittee of congress reported there were almost 2.5 million Federal employees. The committee reported it found little evi- dence that any bureau, agency or de- partment created in answer to an emergency ever went out of existence, even after the emergency dimp- peared.

Congress abolished the Reconstruc. tion Finance Corporation in 1957; but, it has spent over $1 million since then. The current budget contains an item of $65,000 for administrative expenses. The Federal Farm Mort- gage Corporation formed in Janu- ary, 1934, has made no loans since the depression. The authority of the Commissioner expired in 1947- since 1950, running expenses have amounted to $4 million. Congress ordered the immediate liquidation of the Spruce Products Corporation in 1920. In 1930, they tried again. In 194.7, it was still in business. In 1948 they found the answer-they cut off its appropriation. This was the agency created in World War I to find spruce wood for airplane fuse- lages.

government, leaving 10 cents for the state, county and local community. It is no wonder we turn to the fed- eral government for aid, but wouldn't it make more sense to leave that monev in the local communitv to begin with instead of running it through that puzzle palace on the Potomac, only to have it returned minus a carrying charge?

Early in our history we were warned that the farther the spending was removed from the source of taxa- tion, the less restraint there would be in its spending. Today, shocking figures prove the truth of this. Whal you contribute to your local chari- ties, you must give $1.10 for every $1 that is to be spent in good works. County welfare sees an increase in this overhead to where $1.23 must be

At the reception for Ronald Reogon; NECA Executive Vice President Geory, Mr. Reogon, NECA President Webster and Reginold Jones, GE Supply Co.

All of this vast government com- plex has been created by a tax sys- tem which refuses to recognize any limitations on its right to confiscate the earnings of its citizens.

No nation in its history has sur- vived a tax burden that reached a third of the national income. Today the tax collectors take 33 cents out of every dollar errrued allJ ul ~ I ~ r r t 33 cer~ts, 23 cellis goes io ~l ic Federal

raised for every $1 actually spent on welfare. At the state level it takes 81.49 and the federal government 111ust raise $2110 for every dollar it will spend on the recipients of fed- cral welfare-a $1.10 overhead for. each $1.

To meet this overhead, we are burdened by hundreds of hidden and ii~di~.ec.t taxes, accuu~itiug for l /3 of our ~)liui~e I~ill, l/4 of lie price of '

can earn'by his own ability. Beyond that is the fact the government can- not justify such confiscation on the basis of real need. The government's total grab from all the 50 per cent to 91 per cent brackets is less than 3/4ths of $1 billion.

Because of our willingness to ac- cept the idea that those best ab!e to pay should lighten the burden of those with lesser earnings, we have adopted as proportionate taxati.)~! this progressive system spawed by Karl Marx and declared by hi I to be the prime essential of 3 . I cialist state-the method prescribed r tax- ing the middle class out of exist- ence. For an illustration of the differ- ence between proportionate and progressive tax, we can look to the Bible. There tithing is explained as the economic basis of our Judaic- Christian religions. The Lord says you shall contribute one-tenth and He bays, "If I prosper you 10 times as much you will give 10 times as much." That is proportionate-but look what happens today when you start computing Caesar's share. A man of average income suddenly prospered 10 tinies as much would find his personal tax increased 43 times.

If the government confiscated all taxable income above $10,000 a year after exemption and deductions the increased revenue wouldn't pay the interest on the national deht.

Defense is given as justification for the tremendous increase in the

The executive session of the convention is called to order.

federal budget and yet since 1953 (the end of the Korean War) defcnse spending has only increased 1 per cent, while non-defense federal spend- ing has increased 63 per cent.

We are told by some congressmen that spending programs are forced on them by pressure groups. Two years ago I was a member of a pressure group. 1 appeared before the House Ways 8: Means Commit- tee to present the demand of 33

Members listen to the marketing presentation.

unions and the management of the motion picture industry for a tax reform program. In a month of un- precedented hearings, every segment of the national economy was repre- sented before that committee and every representative demanded tax reform. Eighty-five per cent of those testifying asked the committee to bring forth one particular bill which three years later is still buried in the committce. It would seem pressure

groul~s are irresistible or~ly if they favor spending.

Several 1iront11s later they held , additional hearings, but this time no

volunteers. A group of hand-picked , campus economists appeared before the committt.e and spoke only of the government's need f i r more revenue, not less. Their idca of tax reform involved rate reductions to make it "more ~~alotable." l~ut called for an er~d t(t deducting real estate tax be- fore computing income tax. Interest on home mortgages should not be dcductiBlet nor should contributions to educational groups at 100 per ccnt. Capital gains should be taxed as straight income. Government should use the tax as a police power to determine what constitutes neces- sary advertising and expense. Most of the leaitimate deductions. without " which the programs would have long since been proven unworkable, were called loo~holes. A man. now assist- arrt secl-tlary of the treasury in charge of tax policy, has even explored the possibility of estimating the amount of rent a taxpayer saves by owning his own home and then paying in- come tax on that amount. -

-

All told, these economists were sure their program would get the government $18 billion a year more in revenue, and they just b a p p to be standing by with $18 billion worth of welfare programs they want the government to adopt.

The big spenders reject the idea that the least government is the best government. According to them, you and I are not smart enough to spend our own money. Government should take it from us through taxation and buy for us the welfare programs we are too itupid to buy for ourselves. Their high ideals cannot excuse the fact that it is dishonest to seek social legislation under the guise of taxa- tion. If we are to adopt socialism, then let it be presented to the people as socialism.

Proponents of Keynesian economic theory tell us the national debt is meaningless: It is-it's incompre- hensible. Who can understand $298 billion? If I held a stack of $1000 bills in my hand just 4 inches high, I'd have $1 million. If we had the national debt piled up before us in $1000 bills, the pile would be more than 18 miles high. It is a greater amount than all other governments have spent since the beginning of

government itself. Reduction oj and economy it1 gov-

ernment is where we must start. We must demand that congress put an end to deficit spending: that govern- ment stay within the limits, of its revenue; and that provision be made for regular on the national debt. Then we must demand tax re- form of the kind that will reduce the percentage of national income con- fiscated by thej6overnment. We must restore the right of a man to keep the fruit of his'toil.

To this end, may I suggest the bi- partisan bill still buried in the House Ways & Means Committee-the Her- longBaker bill (Herlong is a Demo- crat, Baker a Republican). This is one of the better prepared tax reform measures to be presented in half a century. Over a five-year period, it gradually reduces corporate and per- sonal income tax to a 15 per cent level with a 47 per cent ceiling on surtax.

In the vast permanent structure of government, you and I cannot rec- ommend specific areas where savings can be effected-nor can congress, beyond a certain point. However, every businessman knows that if you reduce government income and then issue a blanket order to every depart- ment-head and bureau chief that hie budget is reduced by that same per- centage, he'll know where the useless fat can be trimmed.

Of course there will be screams. It will be =.id that it ie dangerous to reduce taxes before reducing spend- ing. They are taking through their hats. Government doesn't tax to get the money it needs-government will always find a need for the money it gets.

We can do this by accepting our responsibility as citizens. In the com- ing election year (regardless of party, because this struggle crosses party lines) we must pin down those who solicit our votes as to where they stand on old fashioned economy and tax reform. We must write to our congressmen and senators giving our objection to specific bills where the money cost and the price in individ- ual freedom is too high. Write them now and then just to praise them when they are on the right track. Don't belittle this simple procedure. It was just this kind of pressure that stopped (at least for' the moment) the school aid bill, headed off the

socializetin11 of our far~ns, restrained somc areas of foreign aid, and so far ha5 delayccl !he medical aid'pm- gram. Writing isn't cor~lplicatecl- just put liis name 011 the envelope, then atldress it "House Office Build- ing" or "Senate Onice Building, Washington, D. C."

We must do more than just stop spending measures. Containment won't save freedom on the home front any more than it can stop Russian aggression on the world front. We must roll back the network of en- croaching coi~trols. We can do it as individuals-we won't need any great new organization.

James Russell Lowell, as Minister to England: was asked how long he thought our Republic would endure. He, answered, that our Republic would endure as long as the people keep the ideas of the men who founded it.

And what were those ideas? The founding fathers--that little band of men so advanced beyond their time the world has never-seen their like s i n ~ r e a t e d a government based on the theory that you and I '

have the God-given right and ability to determine our own destiny. Here took place the only revolution in all history that didn't just exchange one set of rules for another. They shaped a government, bound it with a Con- stitution, and said its only function was to be a watchdog over man's freedom. They never planned that it should become a cow to be milked.

Here for the first time the in- dividual genius of man--every man -was unleashed. Six per cent of the world's population on 7 per cent of the earth's land surface created and owns more than 50 per cent of the world's wealth and that wealth has been distributed more widely among our people than in any other society since time began.

There were no fringe benefits at Valley Forge. The West was won without an area re-development pro- gram.

Now you and I must answer once again whether life is so dear and peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery. If we are willing to pledge our lives, our efforts and our sacred honor, then we must one day spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in America when men were free.

~ted from QUALIFIED CONTRACTOR. Nov.

Sharp: Yes, Mr . [ ~ d g a r M.] Gi l lenwaters was t e l l i n g me t h a t t h e f i r s t t ime he heard Ronald Reagan was when he was a t Rohr Indus t r ies . M r . Reagan came when he was s t i l l w i t h General E l e c t r i c and j u s t gave t h i s rousing ta lk. I guess everybody was t a l k i n g about it f o r severa l days af terwards.

S t o r r s : Now, Burt Raynes, I j u s t saw him t h e o the r day, a s a ma t t e r of fac t . They came over, Burt and Lois, h i s wi fe , and t h e r e i s somebody who could g ive you a l o t of i n s i g h t i n t o things.

Sharp: Yes, yes, t h a t ' s what we had thought.

I1 POLITICS OVER TBE YEARS

The Republican Par ty i n San Diego and Statewide I s sues -

Sharp: I have some o the r ques t ions mostly about San Diego because I wanted us t o s t a r t o f f a t t h e l o c a l level . I have some ques t ions j u s t about t he s t a t e par ty opera t ions from San Diego, and so I thought we would s t a r t w i t h t h a t and then grow out.

S to r r s : We had a chairman [Edwin L. Thacher, GOP county chairman] and he decided-let me think, t h i s i s '60 o r '61, I think-that we should have aga in a committee t o in te rv iew candidates f o r assembly, s t a t e senate , and Congress i n t h i s area.

Sharp: I n San Diego.

S to r r s : I n San Diego County. A s a mat te r of f a c t , he .had Ruth Jackson and I put down who should be on it. Ruth was t h e San Diego County Federat ion of Republican Women's Club pres ident o r may have been a t t h e time. So what we d id was j u s t go s t r a i g h t through t h e l i s t , took t h e pres ident of t h e Republican Women's Club i n t h e county, t h e p re s iden t s of t h e Young Republicans, t h e pres ident of CRA [Ca l i fo rn i a Republican Assembly], UROC [United Republicans of Ca l i fo rn i a ] , and so f o r t h , and then took i n each assembly d i s t r i c t . We d id about f i f t y o r s i x t y i n each assembly d i s t r i c t and then we took outs tanding business types i n each one of these d i s t r i c t s .

Then we met by assembly d i s t r i c t . Thev [ t h e assembly d i s t r i c t r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s ] e l ec t ed o r nominated o r appointed those people t h a t would be on t h e s t a t e sena te and assembly in te rv iewing committees and then they picked--and remember, t hese would overlap--the ones f o r t h e congressional recommendations. Then t h e meet ings were he ld and people interviewed and so for th . I f e l t t h a t it was one of t h e h e a l t h i e s t t h ings t h a t had ever happened because t h a t f i r s t t ime we d id i t wi th a heavy Democrat v o t e r

r e g i s t r a t i o n , we e l ec t ed four out of our f i v e assemblymen, and we were ab le t o do it because everybody got together.

Now, we had some people t h a t f e l t , oh, 'you're being selec- t ive," and, "You a r e being this." We had some people t h a t got r e a l l y very cross, but then, because it was being fol lowed c lose ly , we had a couple of candidates t h a t would speak i n a conservat ive a rea and go on a s t rong conservat ive [ p i t c h ] , and go over here, which was a l i b e r a l a r ea and do exac t ly t h e opposi te , and we didn't th ink t h a t was very good.

Remember, t h e r e was some taping i n t h a t s tage where you could do i t so t h a t t h e y would have it. They cou ldn ' t s ay , "I d i d n ' t s a y that." "Uh-huh." So we d id and tha t ' s when we e l ec t ed these people and t h a t continued u n t i l Les Gehres came i n a s chairman, L e s l i e Gehres. He said, "This i s t h e worst th ing t h a t ever happened i n t h e county and so f o r t h and so on and we'll not do it, we' l l not have t h i s any longer."

It was a t ime of Arnie [C. Arnholt] Smith bas i ca l ly , you might say, and Gehres worked f o r Arnholt. So the re was a s i t u a t i o n s e t up amongst t h e r e a l volunteers you might say--Charlie [Charles K.] Fletcher , Gordon Luce, t he people t h a t f e l t very s t rongly about s o l i d government. There d id become a row aga ins t each o the r t o a c e r t a i n ex ten t i n there.

Sharp: This i s Les Gehres?

S to r r s : Back i n '26 and h i s wife, oh Lord, I am godmother f o r their--no, I am not any longer. I was godmother f o r t h e i r daughter u n t i l she married a Cathol ic and then I couldn't be godmother any longer! [ laughs] But anyway, so Gehres and I had always been f r i e n d s but on the county committee we'd b a t t l e l i k e grim death. Now, most of t he t ime we'd lose.

Sharp: I had a couple of questions. In '62 Gaylord Parkinson became t h e vice-chairman [of t h e Republican s t a t e c e n t r a l committee].

torrs : "Parky "--beaut i f u l , beaut i f u l . Sharp: That, from what I can t e l l , i s p r e t t y dramatic i n the sense of San

Diego s o r t of wrenching con t ro l away, a t l e a s t f o r t h a t spot , from Los Angeles.

S to r r s : Yes. Parky had remarkable organiza t ional a b i l i t y and 'was' remarkably conservative. He bas ica l ly , almost t o t a l l y alone, you might say, pul led t h e par ty together. Parky d id it; the re i s no

ques t ion about it. Now, I have known him a g r e a t many years. H i s w i f e was one of my c lo se f r iends . I knew t h e boys when they were l i t t l e and t h a t kind of s tu f f . He d id something t h a t was j u s t p e r f e c t l y remarkable i n t h i s state--and he d id it, nobody else. He used t o g e t around and t h e s t u f f t h a t he accomplished-let me look here. [ r e f e r s t o papers ]

Of course, then Put [Putnam] Livermore [became pa r ty chairman i n 19691--there again, we went north, of course. The o l d Livermore family. When you a r e an o l d C a l i f o r n i a f ami ly l i k e t h e Chickerings [ laughs] and such l i k e , it always c r e a t e s a kind of a bond because t h e r e weren't too many people a t t h a t stage. But Put Livermore was i nc l ined t o go w i t h t h e pressures. Do you know what I mean?

Sharp: Yes.

S to r r s : Then, of course, when Gordon [ ~ u c e ] came i n [ i n 19691-

Sharp: That was a dramatic d i f f e r e n c e you would th ink?

S t o r r s : Yes, Gordon aga in d id a very remarkable--of course, Gordon was t h e one t h a t d id t h e Reagan th ing , you might say.

Sharp: I n w h a t r e s p e c t ?

S t o r r s : By o rgan iza t ion and g e t t i n g people t o r e a l i z e and a s much a s any- t h i n g e l s e h i s pe r sona l i t y , h i s being a b l e t o g e t t o people. There a r e some people t h a t can g e t hold of people and o t h e r people--well, Put Livermore always had a c e r t a i n shyness, s h a l l I say. He was l a i d back t o a c e r t a i n ex t en t where w i t h Gordon he was always--here I am t e l l i n g you what I think.

Sharp: Le t me a s k you a few more ques t i ons t h a t may h i g h l i g h t some more of t h i s . I j u s t want u s t o s t a y back i n t ime a l i t t l e b i t , bu t a t t h e po in t when Parkinson came i n a s vice-chairman, Caspar Weinberger, of course, was chairman and t h e r e seemed t o be somewhat of a t ens ion about t h e pa r ty and about t h e d i r e c t i o n s t h e par ty was supposed t o go in. Do you th ink t h a t ?

S t o r r s : Not too much r e a l l y . Again, Cap being t h e nor thern ( t h e same o ld b i t t h a t we've always gone through t o a c e r t a i n extent)--a l i t t l e s t ronger on the--a l i t t l e more l i b e r a l . But I happen t o be very fond of Cap. Then you've got t o remember t h a t people do change. People w i l l r e a l i z e t h a t 'you mean I advocated t h a t ? How d id I ever do tha t?" Do you know what I mean? As they w i l l g e t more f u l l y informed, g e t c l o s e r i n t o th ings , they do change. They won't j u s t s t i c k here o r maybe they go a l i t t l e b i t more on t h i s o r t h a t s ide .

I have always been opposed majorly--I t h ink the women's p lace i s i n the home and doing t h e volunteer work. I don't l i k e t o s ee them i n t h e top indus t ry things. I r e a l i z e a l o t of them a r e very smart and so f o r t h and tha t ' s t h e i r l i f e , but they g ive up a whole p a r t of t h e i r l i f e , of t h e i r feminine side. They g ive t h a t a l l up and even i f they have ch i ld ren and they a r e career women, they haven't t h e t ime t o spend w i t h t h e i r children--you know, "get i n my lap" o r something when somebody f a l l s down and c r i e s , o r they come home from school and Mother's no t there , she's a t work. I th ink tha t ' s very sad because--of course, I was r a i s e d t o t h i n k [ t aps f o r emphasis] you're always home when your ch i ld ren come home from school, period! You don't go out playing br idge o r anything. When they come home, any problem t h a t has come up i n school, you w i l l hear it immediately. I f i t ' s two hours l a t e r , they're i n t o something else .

So t h a t aga in i s government a t t h e l o c a l l e v e l and you fol low t h i s through a l l t he way on a l l levels . Yes, we a l l change.

Now I see women t h a t a r e b r i l l i a n t and doing b r i l l i a n t things. Some of them had not done it u n t i l they were a t a c e r t a i n phase where they f e l t they could o r wanted to , but I don't l i k e women going t o the naval acadamy. [ l augh te r ] No, I don't 1 I ' m s t i l l , you might say, prejudiced. I don't t h ink tha t ' s t he place f o r them. I th ink they're b e t t e r o f f when we used t o have a separa te corps, you might say. Women t h a t s t a r t e d out a s yeomen became t h i s , t h a t , and the o the r thing. They weren't aboard sh ip ever because t h a t can be d i s t r ac t ing . I n f a c t , I had a young cap ta in of a sh ip and he had some women aboard. I had known him--again, he was a navy family.

I sa id , "Charlie, how does it do t o have women aboard your ship? What happens?" He sa id , "Oh, don't t a l k t o me!" I sa id , "Do you mean hanky-panky s t u f f ? " "Oh, no," he said, "I'm not t a l k i n g about that . One of them picks up something and s t a r t s up a ladder and everybody s tops working and runs t o he lp her car ry it up a ladder. [ s ighs ] It d i s r u p t s t he whole work on the ship. She i s scrubbing a t something and g e t s i n t o o r drops something o r something, every man i n t h e a r ea s tops and runs over t o h e l p her! We can't g e t t h e work done." [ l augh te r ]

Here i s my daughter. Now, she works i n volunteer things, I am happy t o say. [ t ape i n t e r r u p t i o n ]

Sharp: The next ques t ion t h a t chronological ly f i t s i n here i s Mr . Nixon's guberna tor ia l candidacy which i s i n '62, i n t h i s e a r l y period. I wondered i f , on t h i s l o c a l l eve l , you might have been involved.

S t o r r s : Well, what was I doing?

Sharp: Working wi th the county committee probably?

S to r r s : Probably, oh, yes, by a l l means I worked f o r him. He was i n t h e navy. H i s skipper when he came i n t o the navy l i v e s r i g h t here a ha l f a block, Capt. Dorris Gurley [ s p e l l s name] and they became verv c lose f r iends . Capt. Gurley very o f t e n will--he used t o more--reminisce about va r ious and sundry [ laughs I t imes he and Nixon had together dhen they were a l l young i n the e a r l y navy.

I th ink Mr. Nixon has been very much maligned. I have never heard these t apes where he consents t o t h i s or t h a t o r the o t h e r thing, but I br ing i t home. I have many a t ime been on t h e phone o r busy doing something and one of the ch i ldren would come and say, "Hey, Ma, i s i t a l l r i g h t i f we do s o and s o and s o and so?" And I 'd say , "Oh, s u r e , s u r e , and I haven ' t h e a r d a word t h e y said." I th ink we do that .

I can't he lp but f e e l t h a t i n p a r t of t hese th ings t h a t he was be ing t a p e d , h e s a i d , "Oh, yes , go ahead, t h a t ' s f i n e , t h a t ' s dandy, do it," and so for th . It was not a conscious--do you see what I am t a l k i n g about?

I th ink he has been very, very much maligned because I s t i l l th ink t h e r e i s something verv pecu l i a r t h a t a t t h i s s i t u a t i o n when t h e people went i n t o t h e i r bui ld ing so-called "stealingt ' t h e things, then they found t h a t t he th ings t h a t they had locked were unlocked. They must have known t h a t somebody had caught on o r t h a t somebody was the re doing something wrong. Then t o have the number of unusual people r i g h t i n t h e a r e a t o be ab le t o ge t t h e r e l i k e t h a t , t he re i s something a l i t t l e b i t very unusual.

It could have been a planned, set-up thing, and I s t i l l th ink i t was. I don't know who d id i t o r anything of t h a t kind, but i t 's a l i t t l e b i t too-too.

Sharp: I f you look back t o what was c e r t a i n l y a more o p t i m i s t i c t ime f o r Mr. Nixon i n '62, was t h a t a kind of coalescing f o r t he Reppblican par ty behind Mr . Nixon f o r governor o r not so much?

S t o r r s : Yes and no.

Sharp: I n w h a t r e spec t s?

S tor rs : I am j u s t t r y i n g t o th ink rea l ly . You have always had t h i s kind of d iv is ion .

Sharp: Do you mean wi th in the par ty?

S t o r r s : Yes, no r th and south and between the , what do we say, t h e [Thomas] Kuchels and t h e what-do-you-call-thems t h a t didn't agree on a l o t of i s sues , l e t ' s put it t h a t way. But I can remember we d id p r e t t y w e l l f o r Nixon, but then we had been a more conserva t ive town.

Sharp: Yes, t h a t ' s t rue .

S t o r r s : We always have been, whether because we were--San Diego today, they don't consider themselves a b ig ci ty . They don't. You can a s k anybody: "Where a r e you from?" "I'm from Clairmont." "I'm from La Jo l la . " " I ' m f r o m Nor th Park." They don ' t s ay , "Oh, I ' m f r o m San Diego." They'd say, "Oh, I ' m from Univers i ty City," and y e t they a r e a l l San Diego.

Sharp: You were mentioning t h a t t h e organiza t ion t h a t went on i n San Diego was r e a l important. I wondered i n te rms of t h i s e a r l y period, r e a l l y before '64, i f t h e r e were some major i s s u e s t h a t t h e par ty a s a whole was s t rugg l ing with.

S to r r s : What we t r i e d t o do was t o keep t h e county committee, t h e federa- t i on , the Young Republicans, CRA, UROC, a l l of t h a t , very c l o s e l y together. Now, UROC, yes, was verv conservative. The Republican League was very l i b e r a l . Do you see what I mean?

Sharp: Yes. You a l s o had Republican Assoc ia t e s i n there .

S t o r r s : Republican Associates , which b a s i c a l l y Bob [Robert C.] Walker--oh, you ought to--

Sharp: We did.

S to r r s : Where i s Bob now?

Sharp: He i s i n Washington and I had an in te rv iew wi th him t h i s summer [ 19821.

S t o r r s : Oh, he i s ? He was i n Boulder, Colorado. He was wi th Coors.

Sharp: He i s s t i l l w i t h Coors, but he i s i n Washington heading up t h e i r na t iona l a f f a i r s . He was g r e a t and he has promised me another i n t e rv i ew j u s t on t h e 1968 Republican na t iona l convention."

*There a r e two o r a l h i s t o r y in te rv iews w i t h Mr. Walker conducted a s p a r t of t h i s Reagan Era se r i e s .

Storrs : You know i t was the darndest th ing about Bob Walker. He had worked f o r a congressman (and he probably wouldn't t e l l you this) . [telephone r ings: tape in ter rupt ion] He was running f o r o f f i c e and he had had a big party a t the Ambassador, nothing t o do with campaigning, i n which he went t o Bob Walker and said, "You sign t h e ch i t s . " Bob s a i d , "I can ' t do t h a t . That ' s n o t campaigning. That's something you did on your own." He said, "I t o l d you t o pay these b i l l s , " and they were large ones. Bob sa id , "I'm sorry, I can't. I couldn't do it because it i sn ' t campaign money." They guy said, "You're fired," and he was. He went over and worked i n the 1962 Nixon campaign, I think.

A l l r i gh t , when the San Diego Republican leaders were ta lk ing about doing a Republican Associates, because they had one i n Los Angeles, various people would c a l l me and said, "Would you c a l l some people up i n Los Angeles o r someplace? We think it would be be t t e r t o have somebody from out of town s t a r t Republican Associates than t o get i n t o anything here." Would you see what s o r t of recommendations you can ge t ?"

So I ca l led Cecil Kenyon, a former president of the California Federation of Republican Women. I called-I am t ry ing t o think, what other people? But women t h a t were very much i n the--maybe Gladys O'Donnell o r Dorothy Goodknight o r any of those. Oma--I forget .

Sharp: Who was t h a t ?

Storrs : Oma Umphey. She may not have been the re then, but I ca l led s o r t of a l l of the top women up the re i n Los Angeles and I said, "Now, i f you were picking a s t a f f guy t h a t i s r e a l l y e f f i c i e n t and so f o r t h and so on, who would you pick?" They said, 'Qob Walker," and I got the same thing from every s ing le one of them. So when I reported in, I said, "From what I can gather, Bob Walker. I don't know him a t a l l , bu t t h a t ' s what they said."

So they had a number of people come down and interview f o r t h i s job and Bob Walker was picked and he es tab l i shed Republican Associates and did an absolutely fabulous job wi th them. Now, it s t i l l goes on and i t ' s f a i r l y good. I can go over once i n a while because I was l i k e a founding member or something and they ' l l c a l l me and I would ge t over a t d i f f e r e n t times. But then Pete Wilson came i n when Bob l e f t .

Sharp: And took over Bob's r o l e ?

S tor rs : Yes, i n Republican Associates.

Sharp: Is t h a t how Pete Wilson got s t a r t e d i n p o l i t i c s ?

S t o r r s : He came i n t o our Republican headquarters when he had j u s t go t ten out of t h e marine corps. Ruth Jackson and I were running vo lun tee r s and he came i n t h e r e [ laughs] and s t a r t e d i n w i t h u s a s a volunteer. He was j u s t ou t of t h e marine corps and he sa id , "I want t o work." I've forgot ten , maybe [ i t was] t h e Goldwater campaign. I forget .

The Goldwater Candidacy and t h e Republican National Convention, - 1964; General Notes on P o l i t i c a l Conventions

Sharp: Let 's g e t t o t h e Goldwater campaign and t h e Republican na t iona l convent ion.

S to r r s : I n San Francisco.

Sharp: I n San Francisco. Now, when we t a lked on t h e phone you mentioned t o me t h a t B i l l Knowland had had a r e a l l y important role. I th ink t h a t he was Mr. Goldwater's campaign head.

S to r r s : No, now wa i t a minute. No, I don't th ink B i l l was. Oh, wa i t a minute, l e t me go g e t my Goldwater books o r I w i l l g e t Goldwater book. [ t ape i n t e r r u p t ion; goes through books]

Now, wai t a minute, here i s our San Diego County.

Sharp: Okay. Oh, t h a t ' s good. May I have t h i s ?

S t o r r s : Yes.

Sharp: Oh, grea t .

S to r r s : Le t me g ive you t h i s , too. I was headquarters chairman. [cont inues t o go through papers] Now, here i s n a t i o n a l headquarters w i t h Jimmy D o o l i t t l e , C l a i r Booth Luce, Cl i f White. This i s t h e whole schmeer, addresses and everything else.

Sharp: Yes, t h a t ' s a complete f o l d e r there--everything.

S t o r r s : You see, I ' m a pack r a t . I save s t u f f .

Sharp: I th ink i t ' s g r e a t ; i t ' s a r e sea rche r ' s dream.

S t o r r s : What I would always do anyway in s t ead of throwing o u t a l l of t h e campaign m a t e r i a l l e f t over, I would br ing p a r t of it home. [ laughs 1

GOLDWATER FOR PRESIDENT SAN DIEGO COUNTY CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE

San Diego County Campaign. Headquarters, 707 Broadway, Room 1012 / 234-3366 / San Diego 1, California

charlei K Fletcher Co-Chairman Home ~edera l ~ a v i i l g s & Loan Association 7th & Broadway. S.D. 239-7581 C. Arnholt Smith. Co-Chairman U.S. National Bank 2nd & Broadway, S.D. 2344311

Mrs. Helen Alvarez Hill. Co-Chairman P. 0. Box 945. La Jollb GL 4.0479

Assemblyman Hale Ashcraft 1008 Prospect St.. La Jolla 454-0080

Charles Badger 1634 Glasgow Cardiff-by-the-Sea 753-3097

Assemblyman E. Richard Barnes State of California Building. Rm. 6036 1350 Front St., S.D. 2324361. Ext. 291

David L. Blair 2850 Fifth Avenue, Suite 222 298.8845

Henry A. Boney P.O. Box 698. La Mesa 465-2101

Prof. Ray Borst S.D. State College 5402 College Ave., S.D. 582-4411

Al Breitbard 101 - 16th St.. S.D. 232.7801

Assemblyman Clair Burgener State of California Building Rm. 6042. 1350 Front St San Diego 232.4361. Ext. 287

Assemblyman Richard Donovan 1001 Plaza Blvd.. Rm. 229 National City 474-2245

Major Reuben Fleet 565 Gage Lane. S.D. 6 222-8923

Mrs. Rhoda (Leslie) Gehres 8001 Vista Dr., La Mesa 466.3567

Robert J. Harmon 920 Kline. La Jolla 454-7777 William Hollingsworth 1625 Hillcrest Dr.. Fallbrook 728-2374

Albert E. Jarrell P.O. Box 26, Ramona 789-1804 ,

Dr. Roy Ledford 2881 4th Avenue. S.D. 295-2137

Gordon C. Luce Home Federal Savings & Loan Assn. 7th & Broadway, S.D. 239-7581 Victor R. Lundy P.O. Box 772. S.D. 12 232-3016

Harold A. Mosier 8308 La Jolla Shore Dr.. La Jolla 459-5730

Leon Parma R an Aeronautical Co 2101 Harbor Dr.. S.D. ' 296.6681 or 454-2517 or (H) 459.2284

Mrs. Eleanor Ring 801 Tolita. Coronado 4354524

Mrs. Gladys Selz 1226 Prospect St.. La Jolla 454.1589 Harry Singh P.O. Box 629, Oceanside 722-2653

Fred Speers 118 Caroline Way. Escondido 745-0687

Rodney S. Sprigg 2044 First Ave.. S.D. 239-3628

Frank A. Thornton 12th Floor. U.S. National Bank Bldg. S.D. 239-5771 Jack Williams S.D. Fence Company 3820 Midway Dr., S.D. 223.7181 Dick Wilson 249 E St.. Chula Vista

Ci t i zens for G o l d w a t e r - M i l l e r - San D i e g o In your heart, you know he's right

MAIN HEADQUARTERS

903 SIXTH STREET SAN DIEGO. CALIFORNIA 92101

234-3366 23&6324

ROY M. LEDFORD. M.D. CAMCAISN CHAIRMAN

SENATORJACKSCHRADE CIMPAICN DIRECTOR AUD YANAOEl

EXECUTIVE COMMllTEE CHARLES K. FLETCHER

W A l l l Y A N

VICTOR LUNDY MRS. ELEANOR RlNG CAPT. WM. BALL MRS. JAMES 0. PIKE JOHN J. IRWIN C H A R U S H. BLAIR GORDON LUCE JACK WILLIAMS

ADVISORY COUNCIL HOMER WOODLING DR. GEO. DUNKLEE ROYAL M O R N MRS. MARTHA SMITH DR. JAMES KETCHAM MRS. ELEANOR KINNEY TED JARDINE GRACE LAWRENCE THACKERAY MATIHEW REDLINGER MISS HELENE NAGEL MRS. FLORENCE ABBEY WALTER M E R R l U RALPH HAGLOCK CMDR. JOHN S T U U V'ADM- ALBERT JARRELL

HEADQUARTERS CHAIRMAN MRS. ELEANOR RlNG

"GOLDWATER GUIDE" CHANDLER SCOTT

e EMOCRATS FOR OLDWATER-MILLER

COMMllTEE WILLIAM SCROGGS

UIAIRMAN DISTRICT 1 DR. FREDRICK HOLLANDER

CHAIRMAN DISTRICT O

WALTER (PIKE) HODGE CHAIRMAN DISTRICT 8

DR. JAMES VERNETTl CHAIRMAN DIaTRlCT 4

JAMES 0. PIKE

Sharp: It looks l i k e you brought more and more a l l of t he time!

You mentioned t h a t you had been a t t h e convention, a t t h a t '64 convention, and I wondered how exac t ly you had par t ic ipa ted .

S to r r s : I was an a l t e rna t e . I n most cases, when they would say, "Now, you can be a delegate," I would -say, "No, I would r a t h e r have so-and- so," because we had guys t h a t I f e l t should be on the re much more so. I would r a t h e r be an a l t e rna t e . So I was always very much i n t o that . Well, then they forced me t o be! [ l augh te r ] Because t o me it was s o r t of so what. Then t h e r e were c e r t a i n ones I had t o because I had t o do c e r t a i n p la t form th ings and such l ike. So you have t o be a de lega te o r you can't ge t on Republican committees a t convention now. Now, here were our county co-ordinators, t h e women.

Sharp: So t h i s would have been f o r a l l of t h e counties , f o r Imperial , Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernadino, San Diego, Santa Barbara--

S t o r r s : The southern d iv i s ion .

Sharp: The southern d iv i s ion ; you would have been respons ib le f o r co- o rd ina t ing some of t h e work?

S to r r s : To some ex ten t , yes.

Sharp: Would some of t hese women have been a l t e r n a t e s a s w e l l o r were they more s t r i c t l y behind t h e scenes?

S to r r s : [ reading from l i s t ] Louise Hartman, Helen Grubb, I th ink Kate Haley was, Hazel Stroshime i n Orange County.

Sharp: So a t t h e convention t h e r e were c e r t a i n notable--

S to r r s : Let me look here. Marjor ie Benedict. Char l ie F le tcher , of course, I had known a l l of my l i f e . He i s somebody t h a t ought t o be interviewed on some of t h i s s tu f f . He was a congressman. Yes, there ' s Helen Grubb, Luci le Hosmer.*

*In teres ted r eade r s may see an o r a l h i s t o r y conducted w i t h Luc i l e Hosmer, A Conservative Republican i n t he Mainstream of Par ty P o l i t i c s , Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, U.C. Berkeley, 1983. Also, one conducted w i t h Marjor ie Benedict, Developing a Place f o r Women i n t h e Republican Party, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, U.C. Berkeley, i n process.

Sharp: But you were saying t h a t you spent your time doing what now?

S t o r r s : Working on t h e r u l e s and p la t form committees.

Sharp: Let me j u s t show you t h i s f o r comparison. I a l s o have t h e l i s t of t h e people who were t h e [Nelson] Rockefe l le r de lega tes , so you can j u s t see. I don't know i f you probably had seen t h a t a t one time. Now, who were those?

S t o r r s : Yes, Kuchel and Knight, Christopher, Leonard F i res tone , Anthony Clark, Lee Sherry. Then, you see, it was a f t e r t h i s t h a t we had t o g e t toge ther and Leonard came w i t h his--we had one committee. Maybe t h e r e h e r e f i v e of us. I was the only woman on it--Leonard, Holmes T u t t l e , Tom Reed, and I, and who was t h e f i f t h one? [pauses t o r e c a l l ] No, it wasn't J u s t i n Dart.

Sharp: M r . Rube1 perhaps?

S t o r r s : No. But some of these people l e f t u s e n t i r e l y and some of them stayed and went along, no ques t ion about it. Lee, of course, did. See, here 's your game. There you a re , your l i b e r a l s and your conservatives. [ laughs 1

Sharp: Yes, very much so, and these names show up on t h e same s i d e s a l l t h e way through perhaps, a t l e a s t t h a t i s t h e way i t seems.

S to r r s : To a g r e a t ex ten t , but t h e r e has been a coming together. On the o t h e r hand, a l o t of u s can remember when these guys--the Kuchels and these kinds of people were out t o cu t your throa t .

Sharp: Had th ings changed very much from t h e E a r l Warren period when t h e r e were such s t r ingent--

S to r r s : I don't know because I didn't know t h a t much r e a l l y about t h a t per iod because t h e f i r s t ,convention I went t o was i n '60 i n Chicago a s an a l t e r n a t e and Bob Wilson wanted me t o go. So then I got i n t e r e s t e d i n "what's going on around here?" [ l augh te r ] Of course, I am a g r e a t be l i eve r [ t h a t ] t h e more people a t t h e l o c a l l e v e l t h a t you g e t involved, t h e b e t t e r o f f you are--I mean r e a l l y involved and they g e t involved i n government and t h i s i s fine.

Sharp: I wanted us t o ge t a few more no te s on B i l l Knowland because he i s such an i n t e r e s t i n g f igu re .

S t o r r s : B i l l Knowland was a very outs tanding guy. I have always l i k e d him very much. I th ink he had a r e a l rough go-around. There were a number of s i t u a t i o n s where--in t h e f i r s t place, when they changed over t he re where he was going t o run and he gave up h i s Senate s e a t and everything-

Sharp: I n '58.*

S to r r s : Yes. I wished they hadn't .

Sharp: It r e a l l y caused them a l o t of problems.

S to r r s : Yes, people see it t h e way they see it, though t h e r e were a l o t of us who were not r e a l l y i n favor of t h i s .

Sharp: Why was he working on M r . Goldwater's campaign do you tg ink?

S to r r s : I th ink t h a t he r e a l i z e d what had t o be done and t h a t kind of s t u f f .

Sharp: Goldwater, of course, had succeeded i n t h e primary and I guess was ga ther ing q u i t e a b i t of momentum f o r t h e genera l e l ec t ion , which was going t o come i n November. I wondered i f t h e par ty was beginning t o r e a l l y come toge ther behind Mr . Goldwater?

S t o r r s : I t h i n k they c e r t a i n l y d id a t t h a t time. NOW, l a t e r with--I don't know happened i n there.

Sharp: 1t ' s a r e a l rough period.

S t o r r s : Of course, remember, during t h e period when I am n a t i o n a l committeewoman [1968-19721, I must s t a y ou t of a l l o the r e lec t ions . I mean tha t ' s your obl iga t ion . Your o b l i g a t i o n i s only t o work wi th people f o r t h e party. You a r e a Republican committeewoman, so you do not pre-primary endorse and you do not g e t i n t o any of t hese e l e c t i o n s a t a l l (which I was i n a g r e a t dea l of t h e t ime because I was a l s o a vice-chairman of t he southern d i v i s i o n and even a county president) . The same thing, you mav not pre-primary endorse i n t he federa t ion . This you must not un less you wish t o resign. You j u s t can't do it. The minute t h e primary i s over, okay.

NOW, i n t h e Goldwater t h ing I was f i n e because I had f i n i s h e d being county pres ident , so t h a t I was f r e e t o do a s I wanted t o and I could go i n t o t h e Goldwater [campaign]. Cynthia Laird, who now

*In 1958 William Know land r a n f o r governor of Ca l i fo rn i a i n s t ead of f o r r e - e l ec t ion a s U.S. Senator from California . Governor Knight d id not run f o r re-election. He r a n f o r Knowland's Sena to r i a l s e a t instead. This was ca l l ed t h e "Big Switch"; both men l o s t .

l i v e s i n Santa Barbara, her name i s [ ~ r s . ~ e d ] Heyer [ s p e l l s name], she worked j u s t a s s t rongly on t h e Goldwater t h i n g a s I did, p e r f e c t l y marvelous. She i s very s t rong i n t h e know (meaning knowledgeable) and remembers a l o t about t h e p o l i t i c a l s tu f f . [ laughs, pause] But she is a l o t younger t o begin with.

But we have a l o t of very, very remarkable people, I mean people I th ink who have been--now, Paul Haerle went t h e o the r way, you see.

Sharp: There was t h a t s p l i t l a t e r on.*

S to r r s : Yes, and I s a i d t o him, "I j u s t can ' t b e l i e v e it." But i n t h e meantime, he and h i s w i f e had s p l i t up. Very o f t e n t h e domestic th ings came i n t o these things. I th ink t h a t was p a r t of t h e Know land th ing , too. Now, I've always f e l t t h a t Frank Adams, whom I admire g rea t ly , a l though l o t s of t imes we haven't agreed on th ings , he always s tayed exac t ly co r r ec t ly , do you know what I mean? We could argue about va r ious th ings , always i n a very f r i e n d l y way, and usua l ly come t o some solution. Of course, Tom Reed, good Lord, Tom, and of course you must--he i s i n Washington now. He always wanted t o go h i s own way.

[ laughs] Well, Tom i s a s t range guy. H i s w i f e I ' m very fond of. She i s a p e r f e c t l y d e l i g h t f u l woman and a very smart woman. They had met when t h e y were going t o Cornel'l together .

Sharp: Is she a c t i v e too wi th in t h e pa r ty?

S to r r s : Not too much; more a c t i v e w i t h her ch i ldren , her family. Is t h a t on?

Sharp: Yes.

S to r r s : Oh, a l l r ight . [ laughs] A l l t h e odd experiences one has. My husband and I a r e landing i n Syracuse--this i s about '78 o r '79-- and we a r e going f o r a week i n New York t o see some f ami ly and, oh, we had an awful t ime g e t t i n g in , a storm and a l l t h a t s tu f f . We g e t i n and we have ren ted a ca r and we a r e both car ry ing a su i tcase . A l l of a sudden t h e r e i s woman walking down here car ry ing a bag over her shoulder and a bag here. A l l of a sudden she drops a l l of her bags and j u s t s tands there. I sa id , "Good heavens, I

*In the 1976 Republican p r e s i d e n t i a l campaigns, a group of people who had o r i g i n a l l y worked f o r Mr. Reagan whi le he was governor supported Gerald Ford f o r p re s iden t ins tead of Reagan.

wonder what happened t o thatw-whether something had happened t o her. So I r a n over: Tom Reed's wife. She sa id , "Imagine, see ing you i n a n a i r p o r t i n Syracuse when I haven't seen you i n years." She had been up on something. She's a t r u s t e e a t Corne l l University. [ l aughs] So w e s tand i n t h e a i r p o r t and t a l k o l d t imes f o r a h a l f hour.

Sharp: [ l augh te r ] With s u i t c a s e s and every th ing s o r t of a l l over!

S to r r s : Yes, bu t t h a t ' s t h e s t r ange t h i n g i n t h i s p o l i t i c a l thing. You run i n t o people when you l e a s t expect it.

Sharp: When you go t o these convent ions you must--

S t o r r s : No, I want o t h e r people t o go t o t h e conventions. I'll help, but I don't want t o be appointed t o any of t he se things. I didn ' t want t o be appointed t o any p r e s i d e n t i a l commissions, having known Helene von Damm and Ed Meese and of course Ursula Meese. I had i n . t h e beginning any number of c a l l s : You know, ''Eleanor would you go on so-and-so?" '!No thank you ve ry much, I don't want t o go on any of them, I want o t h e r people on. them. I'll suggest names, but no way. You want your younger people i n h e r e and, sure , I can check on so-and-so o r check on so-and-so," t hose kind of things. Sure, I ' m happy t o do i t and I can come back and s a y "dandy," "I don ' t know," o r "I'd be a l i t t l e leery" o r something. With any of t he se t h i n g s you 'do, you have t o make always a t l e a s t f ou r o r f i v e phone c a l l s of t o t a l l y d i f f e r e n t types i f you a r e going t o g e t a balanced opinion, which I discovered very ear ly .

Sharp: Was t h a t p r e t t y important i n t h e organiz ing t h a t you d id i n San Diego ?

S t o r r s : Of course, it i s because you have got t o ge t , i f somebody i s going t o come i n i n a c e r t a i n job, t h i s woman o r man has t o be someone, a t l e a s t I 've a lways f e l t , t h a t must be respec ted by a l l d i f f e r e n t kinds of groups. Otherwise, how a r e you going t o g e t them toge ther? I f it i s someone t h a t they have admired i n doing such- and-so o r something e l s e , then they can come i n and say, " A l l r i g h t , l e t ' s g e t t h i s going,"

Republican Nat ional Committeewoman, 1968-1972

Sharp: It s t r i k e s m e t h a t w i t h t h e Republican par ty , t h e c e n t r a l committee i n t h e s t r u g g l i n g f o r t h e d i f f e r e n t pos i t i ons , t h a t t h a t ' s exac t ly what was t h e problem w i t h it, t h a t t h e r e wasn't very much agreement on who would be-

S t o r r s : Yes, of t h e p u l l i n g toge ther .

Sharp: Ann Bowler came i n a t j u s t about t h i s t ime t o be na t iona l commit- teewoman [January 19671.

S to r r s : She and Gardiner Johnson came in.*

Sharp: This is, of course, j u s t a f t e r Mr . Reagan has become governor. It would have been a good period f o r t h e Republican par ty w i th a new governor.

S to r r s : Yes, and t h a t was when (and Ann and I had t a lked about i t ) , l e t me see, when was i t ? It was t h e January [I9681 before t h e meeting of t h e de lega t ion i n June. I was up i n Sacramento on an execut ive meeting, and they came t o me about o r i g i n a l l y being n a t i o n a l committeewoman. So I went and t a lked t o Ann and she sa id , 'Tes, because we want t o s t a y in. Then Gardiner didn't want t o leave. (This i s kind of o f f t h e record.) Then Ann l e f t f o r someplace. About a month o r so l a t e r she c a l l e d me and sa id [emphatic tone] , "No, I ' m go ing t o s t a y on." I s a i d , "Ann, i t ' s a l r e a d y done." Oh, Gardiner was upset, Ann was upset.

-. We s ince have, you might say, been a b l e t o work toge ther , but

a t t h a t s tage she and Gardiner both f e l t they should have stayed.

Sharp: Why is it t h a t they were not a b l e t o s t ay?

S t o r r s : Because Reagan wanted new people and Tom Reed was someone t h a t he felt--or t h e people around t h e r e and B i l l Clark, they kind of s i t down and k ick t h i s s t u f f around. They're nominated t o t h e de lega t ion and then they a r e e l e c t e d a t t h e convention. Nobody ever knows when i t t akes place. The sec re t a ry of t h e par ty s t ands up and says, "Nominated f o r na t iona l committeewoman from Arizona o r Arkansas"--she r eads of a l l of t h e names--"all those i n favor," and nobody has heard a word and then you're elected.

But where you a r e nominated i s wi th in ' your de lega t ion and then tha t ' s a l l . Now, f o r instance, Gordon Luce nominated me. There i s usua l ly one nomination f o r committeewoman and one f o r committeeman-- period. It i s a l l p r e t t y much s e t up ahead of time.

*Gardiner Johnson was Republican na t iona l committeeman between 1964 and 1968. Readers a r e d i r e c t e d t o h i s in te rv iew i n t h e Reagan Era s e r i e s .

Sharp: When you came i n then, it was something t h a t you r e s i s t e d ?

S to r r s : Well, I j u s t had f e l t t h a t t h e r e were younger people t h a t could have done it. Apparently it was a s much s t a f f [ m a t t e r s ] a s anything e l s e , no "we want t h e local" and s'o f o r t h and "Tom w i l l do t h e other." When we were going t o have t h e convention i n San Diego--when was t h a t ?

Sharp: I n '72.

S to r r s : It was decided it was going t o be i n San Diego. So Tom Reed came t o me and s a i d , "You a r e i n charge.'' I s a i d , "Come o f f i t , you and I a r e t o g e t h e r i n charge." He s a i d , "I c a n ' t p o s s i b l y . You're i n charge. I'll g ive you any s t a f f you want. Pick your t op s t a f f person and l e t me know and g e t t h e headquarters i n San Diego and so forth." So I sa id , " A l l right." So I [ laughs] picked Es ther Rushford. Do you know who Esther i s ?

Sharp: No, I sure don ' t .

S to r r s : Es ther Rushford Green, she's w i t h t h e Ca l i fo rn i a Chamber of Commerce o r has been up t h e r e i n Sacramento. Oh, Lord, what's he r l a s t name? She was on s t a f f of t h e s t a t e committee and d id a fabulous job. So I asked f o r her and Tom sa id , "You a r e asking f o r a woman?" I sa id , "Yes, she's t h e most e f f i c i e n t s t a f f [person] I 've e v e r s e e n work i n t h e s t a t e . " So he s a i d , " A l l r i gh t . " Esther came down he re and we e s t ab l i shed t h e of f ice .

B i l l Timmons c a l l e d me from Kansas City and he sa id , "Eleanor, we're i n problems because of Ed Reinecke and a l l t h a t s tu f f , " which aga in they misinterpreted. There was nothing wrong about t h e Sheraton people g e t t i n g t h i s money t o t h e convention thing, it r e a l l y wasn't. Then t h e agreement was t h a t Nixon would be t h e r e opening t h e i r b i g thing. Well, t h a t fo l lowing year what d id they do? They took a plane load of people t o some p lace a l l pa id f o r by t h e h o t e l t o open one of t h e Hi l tons i n Greece o r something, campaign s tuf f . Jeepers 1

Anyway, so Paula Hawkins was n a t i o n a l committeewoman i n F lor ida a t the time. I happen t o a l s o be very fond of her. We always got a long on t h e na t iona l committee. So I c a l l e d her and I sa id , "Paula, i n case you don't know it, i t 's [ t h e convention] going t o move t o Miami," and t h i s i s l i k e t h e end of Apr i l o r May. She s a i d , "What?" I s a i d , "Yes, and you ' re i n charge." She s a i d , " ~ h ! " [ l a u g h s ] So s h e s a i d , "Eleanor , you've g o t t o h e l p me." So I sa id , " A l l r i g h t , I'll come on over," which I did. Esther came wi th me and we went down w i t h Paula--and she i s a very e f f i c i e n t woman--setting t h i s s t u f f up f o r the convention which was what, J u l y i n Miami?

Sharp :

Storr s :

Sharp :

Stor r s :

Sharp :

Sharp :

Stor r s :

Yes, 1. bel ieve so.

But I can t e l l you, out o f ' a l l t h i s some of the most marvelous th ings come. Paula and I a r e i n the convention h a l l j u s t before the convention t ry ing t o be sure t h a t everybody had the box they wanted t o have, and somebody wouldn't be mad because they were behind somebody e l s e o r something. A t t h a t s tage, t h e o rches t r a s t a r t e d t o play. There was nobody i n t h e whole place and the orches t ra s t a r t e d t o play and you're up here. What's going on? Ethel Merman s t a r t s p rac t i c ing the th ings she i s going t o s ing a t the convention. . Paula and I both s a t down and the re she sang f o r an hour or so--you know, "let ' s do t h i s again, a l i t t l e f a s t e r there , a l i t t l e slow there." We s a t t h e r e and l i s t e n e d t o t h e e n t i r e rehearsa l and then both of us got up and j u s t clapped l i k e crazy and she looked around! [ laughter ]

But these a r e the unusual th ings t h a t w i l l happen when you l e a s t expect them.

So you had your own p r iva te concert while you were g e t t i n g ready?

Well, of course 1

After everything got ironed out about San Diego, it must have been a f a i r l y i n t e r e s t i n g convention I would think.

Yes, it r e a l l y was. I th ink my most d i f f i c u l t t ime i n it came one night. I had been t o some dinner o r something and I had got back and we were a f a i r ways out a t a hote l , a f a i r ways out. I got back and I got t h i s c a l l from Nancy Clark Reynolds. She said, ''Eleanor, t h e r e is a governors' meeting tonight a t midnight a t one of the h o t e l s way downtown and the governor has asked t h a t you r e p r e s e n t him." I s a i d , "What?" She s a i d , "Yes, I ' l l be by t o pick you up i n about twenty minutes o r so." I said, "Give me a ha l f hour." I was dirty--do you know what I mean?-so I got i n t h e shower and went on down. These were the Republican governors and the meeting was chaired by t h e governor from Massachusetts.

S a l t o n s t a l l ?

I th ink so, and most of them were very l ibe ra l . They s t a r t e d ge t t ing i n t o some th ings and f i n a l l y I had t o put up my hand and

I1 1 say , I m s o r r y , I can ' t a g r e e w i t h t h a t and I don' t t h i n k t h a t Governor Reagan would agree w i t h it." Then they ge t i n a g rea t hass l e and f i n a l l y t h i s governor from Kentucky o r Tennessee, a s trong conservative, he walked i n (he hadn't been there e a r l i e r ) and he said, "I t o t a l l y agree wi th California," and, brother , he g e t s i n and r e a l l y lays it i n t o them.

Sharp :

Sto r r s :

Sharp :

Storrs :

Sharp :

Sto r r s :

Sharp:

S to r r s:

What was the i ssue t h a t they were--

They were t a lk ing about p la t form and s t u f f l i k e t h a t , t h ings t h a t they wanted in, and t h i s was s o r t of a very sma l l Republican meeting-you see, t h e r e weren't t h a t many Republican governors. So we were the re u n t i l about t h ree o'clock and then t h e d a r l i n g governor from Maine--I fo rgo t who t h a t was, I knew h i s name, but I had never known him, but he and h i s w i fe sa id , "Eow a r e you g e t t i n g home?" I s a i d , "Oh, I'll g e t a cab." They s a i d , "Oh, no, you won't a t t h i s t ime of night. Because we're ou t c lose t o there , too, you're going wi th us," which I did. So we went on out.

I got back t o t h e h o t e l t o have P h y l l i s Schlaf ly-- let me think, who e l se? - s i t t i ng wai t ing f o r me. "Eleanor, can we ge t t i c k e t s t o the so-and-so? Do you th ink we could ge t so-and-so?" I s a i d , "I don' t know why not." Well , I n e v e r g o t t o bed a t a l l t h a t night. I went f o r two n igh t s and never got t o bed a t a l l ! [ laughs]

Were t h e r e l o t s of these meetings?

Yes, and they 'd s ta r t - -

A t o f f hours when people--

Yes, t he only t ime t h a t you could-a two o'clock meeting f o r such- and-so, then you f i n i s h t h i s , and then you go t e a r i n g over t o such- and-so; a l l s o r t s of d i f f e r e n t types of things, d i f f e r e n t s o r t s of things.

I am i n t e r e s t e d i n the platform discuss ions and what t h e purpose of t he wrangling was about t h e platform.

Bas ica l ly , again, it would be conservat ive and l i b e r a l . We had gone through every s i n g l e platform of t r y i n g t o keep them i n t o l e s s government in te r ference , l e s s r egu la t ion a t t he f e d e r a l level-- again, cons tant ly t r y i n g t o ge t it back f o r t he s t a t e t o adminis- t e r , f o r t h e s t a t e t o have the county t o adminis te r , t h e county t o have the c i t y adminis te r , and t o not [have] a l l t h e money going t o Washington. Then you g e t back money t h a t they decide you may have, and what was i t ? A t one s tage, somebody f igu red it out of t h e $1.39 t h a t each Cal i forn ian sent t o the f ede ra l thing, Ca l i fo rn ia got back 2 9 ~ . Whether it i s f o r t h e aging o r t h e h o s p i t a l (you know what I mean), t h e r e a r e a l l of t h e d i f f e r e n t f e d e r a l th ings t h a t t he f e d e r a l government has got ten i n t o which they never should have.

They should have been l e f t w i t h i n the s t a t e s ' r i g h t s because d i f f e r e n t s t a t e s do d i f f e r e n t th ings and tha t ' s bas i ca l ly what our p la t forms were always t r y i n g t o 'do, ge t more and more. This i s

exact ly what t he pres ident is t r y i n g t o do, ge t some of these f e d e r a l r egu la t ions of f of th ings t h a t can be very damaging, p a r t i c u l a d y a i n c e r t a i n s t a t e s . Our s t a t e s a r e t o t a l l y d i f f e r e n t , no t only weatherwise, populationwise, commercial, everything e lse , They a r e t o t a l l y d i f f e r e n t s ta tes . They have d i f f e r e n t i ndus t r i e s , whether they a r e an a g r i c u l t u r a l s t a t e o r a manufacturing s t a t e , they're j u s t t o t a l l y d i f f e r e n t and they a r e b e t t e r of f i f those dec is ions a r e l e f t a t t h e s t a t e leve l , Then you g e t r i d of a tremendous amount of bureaucracy.

Now, a year o r so ago I went on t h i s [ f e d e r a l ] Commission on Aging and I was a deputy chairman, There were s i x of us deputy chairmen and a very i n t e r e s t i n g group, too. One of them was of a Spanish-Mexican background, one of them black, and so forth. The g a l from Texas, I think, who was of Mexican background, she's t he woman t h a t had s t a r t e d t h e Hospice s i t u a t i o n , people would have nursing a t home done a t t h e l o c a l level. Do you see what I mean? Oh, you'd think, su.re, now hospices. We have one i n San Diego, a manrelous th ing done a t t h e l o c a l leve l , paid f o r a t t he l o c a l level . It g ives us b e t t e r s en r i ce than anything.

You g e t i n t o dear o ld Senator [ ~ l a u d e ] Pepper and a l l of this-- layers and l aye r s of t he HEW [ ~ e p a r t m e n t of Health, Education and welfare]. P r a c t i c a l l y one whole f l o o r t o do--what a r e they doing? Te l l ing somebody i n Miss i s s ipp i how the o lder people should l i v e o r i n New York City. I f you put it down here, Miss iss ippi can handle t h a t b e t t e r o r New York could.

The same th ing you g e t statewide. We have an enormous Commission on Aging, a l l paid s t a f f . [ I t ] a l l comes ou t of t h e money f o r aging. You have it a t t h e county leve l , you have it a t t he c i t y level . You have it over i n San Diego--a g rea t b ig [bureaucracy]. Who a r e these people on s t a f f ? What a r e they doing? A l l of t h a t money going i n t o s t a f f s tuf f . I f t h e money could be put down here, wi th very minor s t a f f , where it should be t o r e a l l y pay a t t e n t i o n , because t h e r e a r e people t h a t r e a l l y need c a r e and t h e y don ' t g e t it.

Sharp: It seems l i k e i n some re spec t s you may have been represent ing Mr. Reagan a t severa l d i f f e r e n t l eve l s , l i k e t h e example a t t h e 1972 Republican na t iona l cowen t ion when you were sen t t o go t o t h i s meeting and represent him. Did you f e e l p r e t t y comfortable being h i s r ep resen ta t ive?

S to r r s : Yes, I th ink a s much a s anything e l s e because we have always thought along the same l i n e s , you know what I mean?

Sharp: It sounds l i k e it.

Storrs : We have always thought along the same l i n e s and i t ' s back t o the o ld th ing of government i s best a t the loca l level. That's your most economic, your most e f f i c i e n t government because the more you can have a t t h e loca l level--your f r e e e n t e r p r i s e system, not these subs id ies from the government a l l of the time. Give these people an opportunity t o form t h e i r own jobs and businesses. Don't regula te them t o the extent t h a t the re i s no money l e f t t o do t h e i r business. They have t o put i n so darn many repor t s t h a t they have t o employ e x t r a people t o do the reports.

Sharp: Now, with the '72 convention, it. seems l i k e i t 's a r e a l d i f f e r e n t one f o r M r . Reagan and f o r the delegation i n the sense t h a t Mr . Reagan i s not a candidate. He i s head of the delegation a s the governor of California. What e l s e was going on i n terms of possible f u t u r e candidacies f o r Mr. Reagan a t t h i s '72 convention. Is there a l eve l of a c t i v i t y t h a t you could describe?

Storrs : I th ink the re were a f a i r number of us t h a t f e l t t h a t when he went a s governor t h a t he was ce r t a in ly f u l l y capable of being president. That i s why t h e thing was done i n '76-Paul Laxalt. Senator Paul Laxalt organized a Reagan f o r President Committee. I was the only woman on t h e let terhead. We f e l t s trongly i n h i s [Ronald Reagan's] a b i l i t y t o t a k e on t h e job and do f o r t h e U.S. what h e had done f o r California.

Sharp: Were the re some people helping him ac tua l ly a t the '72 convention who might have been there t o work s p e c i f i c a l l y on t h a t ?

S to r r s : No, not r e a l l y I don't think. It was ce r t a in ly a f ee l ing t h a t a number of people would d iscuss and say, "You should be our candidate i n '76." You got it from a l o t of d i f f e r e n t areas. I had women come t o me and say, "Eleanor, do what you can."

I ' m sorry t h a t he didn't make the '76 because I think i t would have been bet ter . I have been very sorry about the Ford victory-- and again sometimes you have t o remember t h a t the re a r e domestic problems t h a t come i n t o c e r t a i n f a m i l i e s t h a t get very complicated, which c e r t a i n l y was wi th President Ford.

Sharp: There were some notes t h a t I had seen about t h i s Ford-Reagan s p l i t and some members, s p e c i f i c a l l y wi th in the Cal i fornia Republican party, were pushing agains t the cont ro l t h a t Mr . Reagan seemed t o be exerc is ing on the party.

S to r r s : Yes, yes, the re were some. Again, you get your--what do I say?- your more l i b e r a l Republicans t h a t were the Ford [supporters].

Of course, Tom Reed t o a c e r t a i n extent went f o r Ford. Well, he was appointed as , what, a s s i s t a n t secre tary of something

M c N U W ~ O TRIBUWI - te listen to the corntian on the radio. MIAna BEACH - EIeanor Ring of - 3 liked to listen to the convention

Coronado, the 6rst lady of the Cali- news - most other kids my age were fomia Republican party, stood at atten- watching 'Big John and S b k y ' on tlon last night for the opening of the TV." final session of the Republican National

' In addition to her political life, Miss Convention. Johnston manages her parents' 190

her face was e e d fie, pride acre ranch ia Winters, a small Yolo dignity with which she has served C W ~ Y c o m a t ~ , where she keeps

the Repllblicm - &an a her prize Arabian horse, "Othello." years. She has served as the first woman

It was r special night for h4 , not ' president of the W i r s District Cham- only because it will probably be her ber of Commerce, and is a member of last political convention as a delegate, the California Farm Bureau Assn., as- but also because she had played an im- sociate member ' of the Republican portant part h its planning - first in State Central Committee, and is vice San Diego and later m Miami. chairman of the Yolo County Republi-

And last night she had the honor af Can Central Committee. - Dawn Ibg- escorting the oice president tothe plat- --em 8

form. ,

Mrs. Ring said that & leaves her position as the national a m - mitteewoman with no regrets. "The balance of powers for the Republican party is strong," she said.

"And I think that there comes a time to retire,"she said. "It is a joy to see these young ones coming up."

Succeeding Mrs. Ring is Janet John- ston, 32, of Winters, Calif., the youngest person ever to serve on the party's na- tional committee.

She will spend the next four years, as is the custom, preparing for the par- ty's next convention, and working to mpport Republican candidates on the local, state and national levels.

"It is my hope," Miss Johnston, "that we can become the majority par- tv in California over the next four +sirs.

"The name of the game is to get the candidates elected." Miss Jahnston said she has aIwaps

teen interested in po 1 i t i c s . Recall- inn the Reuublican Convention in 1952. wh& D wig h t D. - ~isenhoier was elected, she remembers staying up late

f o r a i r o r something, which he loved.* [laughs] But your grassroots i s s t i l l there. I run i n t o it. [dog barks]

Sharp: Do you want me t o l e t her i n ?

Storrs : I'll g e t her. [goes t o door] I creak; I have a r t h r i t i s . Come on in. A l l r i g h t , be quiet .

##

~ d d i t i o n a l Reminiscences: The Local Level, Ronald Reagan Then and Now -

Storrs : [A woman came up t o me.] She said, "I haven't been here and you had me working f o r Reagan," and so f o r t h and so on. "When I went t o Los Angeles, I worked f o r Reagan and so f o r t h and so on. I never thought I would be a Republican and, oh, I j u s t think he i s doing the most marvelous job and I'll k i l l a l l of the--:' Oh, she was going on a t a g r e a t r a t e and, of course , a s f a r a s I 'd know I had never seen her before. We have loads of these people come i n t o headquarters.

But those people--the president can ge t through t o people. He t a l k s genuinely, s incerely, and so he makes a blooper. A l l r i g h t , i s the re anybody t h a t hasn't? Heaven knows, I have made plenty of them and he always admits it: "I blew t h a t one. Gee, I didn't mean t o say that." He doesn't go hiding behind things o r anything. He always comes r i g h t out and says, "Well, I guess I shouldn't have sa id that.'' [ laughs 1

But he's perfec t ly genuine and t h a t g e t s through t o people-- Republican, Democrat, regardless of how they a r e r eg i s t e red t o vote. So they do have confidence i n him and t h a t i s a very major f ac to r , a very major f a c t o r a s a president.

Sharp: That's not too d i f f e r e n t from the way he was when he was a gubernatorial candidate and a s governor. That hasn't changed too much?

Ylhis i s a reference t o Reed's appointment a s secre tary of the a i r force.

S t o r r s : No, and remember t h i s i s a l a r g e s t a t e and a very d i f f e r e n t s t a t e , i n t h e nor thern a r e a s and t h e southern areas. We have the a g r i c u l t u r a l a reas , we have t h e i n d u s t r i a l a reas , we have, you might say, t h e sea--the tuna boa ts and a l l that . We have t h e ocean type of thing. Unlike any o the r s t a t e ; t h e r e i s n ' t another s t a t e t h a t i s l i k e Ca l i fo rn i a w i t h t h e i r e n t i r e l y d i f f e r e n t areas. Yet he has always been a b l e t o r e a l i z e t h i s and was a b l e t o br ing them together. Remember, when he came i n t h e r e was between $600 and $700 m i l l i o n i n debt. He got u s out of debt and he l e f t t h i s s t a t e w i th a very la rge surplus, over $700 mil l ion , I think, and a very e f f i c i e n t s t a t e .

. Now, s ince jun ior Brown [~dmund G. Brown, Jr.] has been in, l i k e h i s f a t h e r did, he has increased t h e s t a t e employees l i k e t e n thousand o r so, I r e a d t h e o t h e r day. We're i n debt . Oh, my ~ o r ' d ! Look a t the debt t h a t poor [Governor George] Deukmejian walked into. Oh, i t 's fabulous. There i s no excuse f o r it, no excuse f o r it a t a l l because Reagan l e f t t h i s a f t e r e i g h t years. Now, he didn't accomplish it i n t h e f i r s t four years , but he knew exac t ly what he was a f t e r . Sure, t h e r e were compromises t h a t had t o be made. Now, he wasn't very happy about them but you f a c e r e a l i t y and you have t o f a c e c e r t a i n things.

Now, t o a g r e a t ex ten t , a s f a r a s I am concerned, he has been going through a s i m i l a r t h ing a t t he n a t i o n a l level. Who knows even today what t h e debt is. From what I can read, nobody knows what t he na t iona l debt is. Horrors! You're t r y i n g t o ge t back on - a s o l i d 'base and we've go t . to. What's going t o happen? What's going t o happen t o my grandchi ldren i f we cont inue t o go more and more i n debt? What's going t o happen? The. country has t o t u r n around. The th ing t h a t r e a l l y f r i g h t e n s you--at l e a s t , i t does me--when you g e t i n t o h i s to ry , look a t your b e a u t i f u l Greek republ ic , look a t your b e a u t i f u l Roman republ ic , and it was. Even i n Rome i n t h e o l d days--I read a l l of 'it way back when--where t h e women came i n and sa id , "We want t he vote." They sa id , "HH?" [ laughs] "We want t o have a r i g h t t o vote," and so for th .

A l l r i g h t , remember t h a t of t h e g r e a t r epub l i c s t h a t had been i n our pas t , none of them have l a s t e d over two hundred years. Now, what's happening t o us? Are we going t o be ab l e t o counteract h i s t o r y and keep t h i s a s a republ ic? We're not a democracy; we're a republic. We're i n r ep re sen ta t ive government;. we're a republic. hat's t h e way it was s e t up and i t was done on purpose. There aga in on your c o n s t i t u t i o n a l th ings , your r i g h t s of your s t a t e s because they were so d i f f e r e n t , and y e t we've been more and more g e t t i n g away from that . I shouldn't g e t on t h i s ! [ laughs]

Republican Campainninn. Mr. Reagan. and P a r t x P r i n c i o l e s

Sharp: It a c t u a l l y br ings us back t o a couple of th ings I wanted t o p ick up on, t h e C i t i zens f o r Cons t ruc t ive Action t h a t was s t a r t e d a f t e r Goldwater, a f t e r November of '64. I was reading t h e pamphlet, some of t he pages I had sen t you. It's i n t e r e s t i n g t o see t h a t s o r t of group come toge ther and t h e people, t h e names of t h e people who a r e on t h a t l i s t of t h e board. Now, t h a t was, I guess, a p r e t t y wrenching t ime but o p t i m i s t i c , too, it seems. Were the meetings o p t i m i s t i c ?

S to r r s : Yes. A l o t of t imes we'd go over va r ious and sundry th ings , but t h e ma jo r i t y of t h e t ime they were very cons t ruc t ive ; I mean sol id . Of course, Lyn Nofziger--you know Lyn--[he played a very important p a r t ] .

Sharp: Yes, I do and he's--

S to r r s : Oh, what a dream!

Sharp: He r e a l l y br ings up t h e i s sue of campaign s t r a t e g i e s , which f o r '66 f o r Mr . Reagan, f o r t h a t campaign, some of them were f a i r l y new. I wonder what s o r t of e f f e c t t h i s had f o r you a t t h e most l o c a l level . The i s s u e s r e sea rch and t h e use of t h e computer f o r mai l ings and so on t h a t went on, I wonder i f you were involved i n t h a t kind of s t u f f ?

S to r r s : Lyn and I would s i t down and k i ck s t u f f around a l o t .

Sharp: S tuf f l i k e what?

S to r r s : Oh, you know, what do you th ink they ' re worr ied about i n here, o r what s o r t of i s s u e s and organiza t ion , and th ings l i k e th i s . And then, of course, h i s remarkable mind; a very b r i l l i a n t guy, a very unusual guy. I th ink t h e t ime I got most t i c k l e d w i t h him ever was t h e meeting i n Los Angeles a t t h e motel out there.

Sharp: Near Marina Del Rey o r someplace l i k e t h a t ?

S to r r s : No, [ t h e C i t i zens f o r Construct ive Action meeting] was near t h e a i r p o r t but up a t one end. Lyn gave h i s t h ing and sa id , "I have t o go, I c a n ' t stay." I s a i d , "Where a r e you going?" (because t h e f ami ly was east) . He looked a t me and he sa id , " A l l r i g h t , I'll t e l l you. I'll t e l l you where I ' m going. I am going t o see my mother, Bas ica l ly , I ' m a mother's boy, but i f I t o l d anybody e l s e they'd laugh a t me, but you'd know what I was t a l k i n g about." So he s a i d , "Mostly, I'll s a y I have t o go s e e a g i r l l " [ l a u g h s ] I s a i d , "Lyn, you b i g fool!"

GOP Group Likes Reagan ByPETJmEAYE

i The San Diego Union's Politics Writer t A "meet-thecandidate" gathering of unusual im-

portance was held last week in La Angeles. t The host was A. C. Rubel, president of Union Oil , Co. The guests were a "who's who" of the Southern

' California business community. The candidate was Ronald Fkagan, who is jockeying for position in the race for the Republican gubernatorial nomination in 1966.

In the quiet confines of the California Club the 20 financiers, attorneys and businessmen heard Reagan spell out his views on a number of state and na- tional issues, ranging from Social Se- curity to civil rights. Lxa Reagan reportedly did we*. Many in the mom had worked with h h in for- mer Sen. Bany Goldwater's presiden-

tial campaign last year. They liked the conservative ring of his statements.

These men included Henry Salvatori, who was Goldwater's fhance chairman fn California; Walter Knott and Holmes Tuttltt.

Not everyone invited came to the meeting. TlKO who were not there were Justln Dart and Leonard Firestone, both top supporters last year of New York Gov. Nelson Rockefeller.

The meeting, Rubel explained, was to gain infor- ' mation about Reagan. No ccmdtments were made.

None were expected. But the consensus appeared to favor Reagan's candidacy.

Christopher, Kuchel Also Mentioned Several weeks earlier a somewhat similar group

met at the invitation of P. C. Hale, president of Broadway-Hale Department Stores.

Their guest was George Christopher, former may- or of San Francisco and the man expected to be Reagan's rival h a GOP primary next year.

A third man mentioned as a top contender, Sen. Thomas H. Kuchel, R-Calif., will be in L<w Angeles tomorrow. There is no indication that he has been invited or is interested in a similar meeting.

Those invited to the meetings represent a mss- section of normally heavy contributors to Republican candidates.

In addition to Salvatori, Knott, Dart, Firestone and Tuttle, they included:

Robert Fluor, Fluor Corp.; Tom Knudsen, Knud- sen Dairy; attorney Earl Adam; Arch Monm, a San Francisco businessman; James Mulvaney, vice president of the U.S. National Bank in San Diego; Ken Norris, Norris-Thermidor; Julius Leetharn, Los Angeles County GOP chairman; and attorney Robert H. Finch, who managed Sen. George Murphy's cam- paign last year and Richard Nixon's 1960 presidential race.

Nut all of these attended the two meetings. And the list is by no means complete.

What the two meetings, and W a r ones in the future, probably mean is that these important cam- paign contributors are looking for a consensus candi- date.

What they want to see is a candidate, such as Mur- phy, behind whom the. party can unify. in November, 1966. .

Pre-Primary Indorsements Opposed Somewhat along the uuna line, Finch has been

speaking throughout the state to urge Republican As- sodates fn various cities to hold off indorsing or fl- n a n W y supporting candidates before the primary.

Finch fears separate slates of Republican nom- inees would clash from the top of the ticket to the bottom and prevent what he otherwise considers a golden opportunity for a GOP victory next year.

In fact, Finch sees the opportunity as so golden that he probably will announce early for lieutenant governor.

Helping add the rose tint to the GOP glasses was Mayor Sam Yorty's smashing reelection victory in Los Angeles last Tuesday.

Many in both parties see Yorty as a possible Demo- cratic rival'to Gov. Brown.

If that is the case, the two could wage a primary campaign that would make any GOP contest appear tame by comparison.

He and h i s mother were l i k e th i s . [ ges tu re s w i t h f i n g e r s crossed 1

Gosh, she was a b e a u t i f u l woman, a b e a u t i f u l woman. The f i r s t t i m e I ever m e t he r I was s i t t i n g next t o her and I sa id , "Mrs. Nof z iger , oh, I have been wanting t o meet Lyn's wife." [ l augh te r ] Because I thought she was! I had never met Bonnie and she looked a t me and said, "Why, you d a r l i n g woman, I 'm Lyn's mother."

Sharp: That would have made you f a s t f r i e n d s I would think.

S to r r s : She was a p e r f e c t l y b e a u t i f u l woman, a l i t t l e t i n y woman, p e r f e c t l y b e a u t i f u l . I s a i d , "Huh?" She s a i d , " I ' m Lyn's mother." So needless t o say, she t o l d Lyn and Lyn laughed l i k e the duce and said, "Eionnie i s going t o have a f i t ! "

. .-

But those a r e t h e personal a s i d e s and where you g e t along w i t h people, you know what I mean?

Lyn, I have always f e l t , i s very except ional and j u s t very outstanding. Lyn w i l l c a l l me every so of ten , "Hey, what do you th ink about t h i s ? What about that? ' ' We'll k i ck around a whole bunch of s t u f f o r i f anything comes up I want t o f i n d ou t about, I'd c a l l Lyn. Sometimes he's there , sometimes he's not, but he ' l l c a l l .

Sharp: There were some i s s u e s t h a t were d i f f i c u l t and t h i s aga in r e l a t e s t o t he par ty , and then w i t h i n the party. There were problems t h a t Mr. Reagan had t o deal w i th a s a guberna tor ia l candidate , a couple of things. The f i r s t one i s t h e f e e l i n g t h a t Mr . Reagan had no use f o r t h e party, t h a t he was campaigning on h i s own w i t h h i s own s t a f f , t h a t t h e r e was t h i s gap between Mr. Reagan and h i s s t a f f and t h e par ty which ex i s t ed s o r t of doing i t s own thing. [The i s s u e ] t h a t t h e r e wasn't a l o t of communication.

S to r r s : I never ran i n t o tha t . Of course, I was working w i t h t h e Women's Federat ion [Ca l i fo rn i a Federat ion ,of Republican Women's Clubs], which i s p a r t of t h e party. I was on my county committee. I was vice-chairman a t one s t age and never r an i n t o that . So I was always a t t h e s t a t e meetings and I was on t h e execut ive board of t h e s t a t e thing. Sure, we always have had t h e north-south th ing , no ques t ion about that .

Sharp: I guess t h e r e was t h e f e e l i n g t h a t it was more than t h a t , t h a t he was not a pa r ty man.

S to r r s : Well, t h a t depends upon who's ta lk ing .

Sharp: Can you th ink of i n s t ances where somebody would be l i k e l y t o t h ink t h a t ?

S to r r s : For instance, Emily Pike might g e t i n t o t h i s because they didn ' t want her i n campaign and she always l i k e d t o be paid campaign.* She might have go t t en i n t o t h a t kind of s t u f f because, sure, you had c e r t a i n people t h a t wanted t o be prominent i n t he campaign and j u s t f e l t , wel l , "I should be i n there," and they weren't acceptab le t o t he Reagan campaign people. I am t a l k i n g about t h e Mike Deavers, B i l l Clark-I mean a l o t of t hese people i n there.

Of course, t h e one t h a t has always t i c k l e d me the most was Nancy Clark Reynolds when she got so upset about t h a t in te rv iew t h a t she had done [wi th ~ e a g a n ] t h a t t h e [~dmund G., ~r.1 Brown people caught up [wi th ] and i n t h e primary changed it and used it a whole d i f f e r e n t way. She pro tes ted aga ins t t h i s maiorly and t o l d the Reagan people about it and so f o r t h , so when l a t e r , a f t e r t he primary was over and they went t o her and sa id , ''Would you come and work f o r us?," she sa id , "Don't you know t h a t I voted f o r Mayor [George] Chris topher? Haven't you heard th i s?" [ laughs] But she, having come from more l i b e r a l , you might say, became one of t h e s taunchest [ suppor te rs ] of t h e Reagan philosophies.

There, again, you see, people w i l l change. They suddenly r e a l i z e , '%ow d id I g e t i n t o th i s?" Of course, she [Reynolds] had been 'a r e g i s t e r e d Democrat. Well, - s o was the governor; so . was t h e president .

Sharp: That br ings up t h e o the r i s sue t h a t t h e par ty s t ruggled i n a very d i f f i c u l t way w i t h i n '66 and probably throughout, t h e extremism issue , t h e i s sue of t h e John Birch Society.

S to r r s : [dog barks] Come on, i f you want t o go out , go on out.

You've always had very sma l l groups of ex t r emis t s , whether they a r e t h e Birch Society, o r now t h e L ibe r t a r i ans o r t h e whatever. There w i l l always be a sma l l number of them t h a t can d i s r u p t more th ings because they want t o ge t p u b l i c i t y a s much a s anything else . Then t h e press w i l l say, oh, a l l t h i s , t h a t , and the o the r thing. Bas ica l ly , it r e a l l y wasn't a f a c t o r a t a l l .

*See Emily Pike, Republican Par ty Campaign Organizer: From Volunteer to Professional. Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft L ibrary , U.C. Berkeley, 1983.

Now, I not iced t h i s t h ing of Luc i l e Hosmer i n the c ros s f i l i ng . There was a l a r g e number of u s t h a t f e l t t h a t c r o s s f i l i n g was going a g a i n s t Republican philosophy. I f you a r e a Republican, you s tand f o r t h e p r i n c i p l e s of t h e Republican party. You don't go over t h e r e and run [on] t h e Democratic party.

Now, remember, through t h e yea r s t h e Democratic pa r ty it s e l f h a s changed t h e i r philosophy. They used t o be much more, oh, I'd say, conservative. I n f a c t , I can remember Barry Goldwater saying "I could e a s i l y have run on Frankl in Delano Roosevelt 's f i r s t plat form, which was a b e a u t i f u l p la t form, I .could have run on t h a t platform. I could run on it today, bu t they've a l l changed. Then they went in to , 'Let's do every th ing f o r everybody t o g e t more vo tes , b r ing t h e labor people i n and g e t s p e c i a l t h i n g s f o r them s o t h e y ' l l v o t e f o r us."'

The Democratic pa r ty i t s e l f has changed maiorlv. That's why we had people l i k e Reagan suddenly discover t h a t t h e t h i n g s t h a t t h e pa r ty he belonged to , t h e Democra t ic ,par ty , were n o t t h i n g s t h a t he stood for. He found t h e t h i n g s t h a t t h e Republican pa r ty stood f o r were t h ings t h a t he be l ieved in. So tha t ' s why he became a Republican. You have had a f a i r number of people t h a t have done t h a t .

Most people don't even pay any a t t e n t i o n t o p l a t fo rms of t h e pa r t i e s . They wil l . say, ''Well, my grandmother o r g randfa ther was a Democrat o r my mother and f a t h e r were Democrats. Of course, I have t o r e g i s t e r i n t h e Democratic party1'--and never read a p l a t fo rm and never know what e i t h e r pa r ty s t ands for .

That's p a r t of our problem. They don't g e t enough--and I don't t h ink i n t h e schools today-- what I c a l l , what used t o be ca l l ed , oh, I don't know, p o l i t i c a l educat ion o r science, where you would study both p a r t i e s and understand what both p a r t i e s were advocating and could see a difference.

Sharp: I t h i n k t h a t i s something t h a t has t o be d e a l t w i t h i n te rms of pa r ty h i s t o r y , t h e i s s u e of ideology. I th ink t h e r e might be a ques t ion i n some people's-minds about ideology and i f it r e a l l y e x i s t s i n te rms of t he party.

S t o r r s : Yes. I 'll see i f I can f i n d a speech of Senator Hugh S c o t t t h a t he gave i n Chicago. He was Senator from Pennsylvania and a n o ld , o l d fr iend. I t was on t h e Republican party. This must have been e a r l y s i x t i e s . He i s t a l k i n g about t h e p r i n c i p l e s of t h e Republican party. He t a l k s about t h e f r e e e n t e r p r i s e system, t h e r i g h t s of t h e i nd iv idua l a s long a s they don't i n t rude on somebody, o r t ake somebody e l s e ' s r i g h t s away from them, bu t t h e r i g h t s of t h e

i nd iv idua l t o do a s they see f i t . They don't g e t t oo regula ted and, of course, t h e government a t t h e l o c a l l e v e l and so for th .

I ought t o have t h a t .someplace. Senator Sco t t o r i g i n a l l y was a congressman. Well, we knew him when he was i n t h e navy h e r e i n t h e F i r s t World War-no, t h e Second World War--because he was from Pennsylvania and he had known my grandfather.

Sharp: I wrote myself a no t e t o a sk you t o look f o r t h a t l a t e r on some- time.

S to r r s : I t 's a b e a u t i f u l one on t h e p r i n c i p l e s of t h e Republican party.

Applause for Volunteers

Sharp: Then, t h e o t h e r s i d e of t h a t i s t h e i s s u e of people w i t h i n t h e par ty who j u s t p l a i n want t o be i n o f f i c e and say, "lie's my guy and I ' m g o i n g t o go f o r him.''

S to r r s : Yes, because t hen h e ' l l g ive m e a spot. Yes, you've always had that . That's why you need more people t h a t don't want a spot i n government, but they want good government and they want t o g e t t h e bes t guy o r t h e b e s t g a l t o do it. [ laughs] That's why t h e more vo lun tee r s you have, t h e b e t t e r o f f you are.

I do no t approve--for ins tance , r i g h t now t h e Nat ional [Federa t ion of 1 Republican Women, t h e p re s iden t of our n a t i o n a l f ede ra t i on , i s paid a salary. I th ink t h a t ' s outrageous. Yes, they always used t o pay f o r t h e apartment and he r c a r and t r a v e l s t h a t she had t o do and then a wh i l e ago they got i n t o t h i s t h ing of p a y i n g her.

Now, sure , you don't want t o be i n t h e t h ing where t h e only people i n t h e f e d e r a t i o n t h a t could do these o f f i c e s of chairman of a county o r a chairman of t h e s t a t e , would have t o be people of means o r they couldn't t ake t h e job. Do you see what I ' m t a l k i n g about ?

Why, t h a t used t o be handled. I can remember w e l l a woman wanted t o be pres ident of Orange County, I th ink it was, and she j u s t didn't have t h e f i n a n c i a l s t u f f t o handle it, t h e gaso l ine f o r her car and t o t ake care of a l l of he r expenses. So what happened? Some of her f r i e n d s went ou t s ide t h e Republican par ty , no t t ak ing Republican money o r Women's Federated money and r a i s e d money f o r her so t h a t she could do t h i s job wi thout any o b l i g a t i o n s t o anybody. She came i n and was a very f i n e chairman. ,

But when you g e t t h e money t h i n g i n t o t h e volunteer groups, I th ink i t 's wrong. Sure, very o f t e n t h e r e have t o be f i n a n c i a l things, but t h a t can be done not [w i th ] money t h a t would be going t o candidates o r f o r Republican p rec inc t work o r telephoning o r mai l ings o r s t u f f of t h i s kind; i t 's a separa te th ing over here. I f she i s t h i s kind of a man o r a woman, it can be done--no problem.

Sharp: Are t h e r e some no te s t h a t we need t o make about t h e h i s t o r y of t h e Federat ion of Republican Women group i n t h i s per iod?

S t o r r s : Now, wai t a minute, one of t he books over here, and I saw it not too long ago, [g ives] a h i s tory . [ looks f o r book1 It was a San Diego one, I think. Yes, [ reading] " th i s handbook [has been designed t o ] provide bas i c information f o r new and o ld members alike."* This i s '67 and i n here [ i s the] h i s to ry , a s ta tement of pr inc ip les . Then it g ives pas t p re s iden t s of San Diego and then g ives d u t i e s (do you see what I mean?) and g ives a rundown on how they can even ope ra t e t he club. Then back he re it g ives you a l l of t h i s kind of thing.

Sharp: Now, t h a t ' s r e a l bas i c information.

S t o r r s : You be t i t ' s bas i c information. Do you want t o borrow t h a t ?

Sharp: Yes, I would l i k e t o borrow t h a t and t h e r e a r e a couple .of o t h e r t h ings t h a t I would probably l i k e t o borrow, too.

Who put toge ther t h i s handbook?

S t o r r s : This Anderson her name was. She was pres ident a t t h a t s tage i n '67. She i s not even i n t he county any longer. They had t h a t l is ted-there.

Sharp: Oh, Mary ID.] Anderson.

S t o r r s : Yes, Grace [Lawrence] Thackeray had a l o t t o do w i t h it. The Andersons re turned t o t he county and now they l i v e up i n nor thern Ca l i fo rn i a someplace, a very b r i l l i a n t woman who sa id , "We need t o have something l i k e this."

*See sample pages from S to r r s ' s "San Diego County Federat ion of Republican Women's Clubs," reproduced on the fol lowing pages.

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF REPUBLICAN WOMEN

The National Federation was founded in 1938 to create an effective and officially recognized association within the Republican Party to cooperate with the Republican National Committee and to establish a clearing house whereby the various clubs could exchange ideas. The Federation emblem is an American eagle with a quill pen and ballot box and was adopted from a pin presented in 1894 to Mrs. Flo Miller of Illinois, a pioneer leader of Republican women in her state.

Officers are elected at bbmial conventions. The National Board is composed of the president from each State Federation, the elected officers and appointed officers and chairmen. Following are the objectives of the Federation, as stated in the ByLaws:

Promote an informed electorate through political . education;

Increaee the effectiveness of women in the cause of good government through active political participation;

Facilitate cooperation among women's Republican clubs; Foster loyalty to the Republican Party and promote

its ideals; Support objectives and policies of the Republican

National Committee and work for the election of the Republican Party's nominees.

CALIFORNIA FEDERATION OF REPUBLICAN WOMEN

The California ~ederation is composed of three divisions': Northern, Central and Southern. The Southern Division covers eight counties: Imperidt, Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, Santa Barbara, San Ber- nardino, San Diego and Ventura. Each Division elects its own officers and chairmen of standing committees. Local clubs pay per capita dues to their division of 405 per member.

State conventions are held in the fall of odd numbered years agd each club is allowed representation by their president and one dele- gate for every 50 members. The State Board meets three times a year, once in each division.

San Diego County Federation Handbook - 1967

36b

STATEMENT OF PF-INCIPLES

Foremost among the transcendent values is the individual's use of his God-given free will, whence d~rives his right to be free from the restrictions of arbitrary force;

Liberty is indivisible and political freedom cannot exist without economic freedom;

The purposes of government are to protect these freedoms through the preservation of internal order, the provision of national defense, and the administration of justice;

When government ventures beyond these rightful functions, it accumu- lates power which tends to diminish ,order and liberty;

The Constitution of the United States is the best arranganent yet devised for .empowering government to fulfill its proper role, while restraining it from the concentration and abuse of power;

The genius of the Constitution--the division of powers--is summed up in the clause which reserves primacy to-the several states or to the people, in those. spheres not specifically delegated to the Federal Government;

We will be free only so long as the national sovereignty of the United States is secure; history shows that periods of freedom are rare, and can exist only when free citizens concertedly defend their rights against all enemies;

The forces of international' C o ~ i s m are, at present, the greatest single threat to these liberties; and

The United Ftates should stress victary over, . . rather than co-exist- ence wi.th,-.this menace.

The above Statement of Principles was passed 'September 25, 1964, at the Convention of the National Federation-of Republican Women, held at Louisrk3.ls., Kentucky.

San Diego County Federation Handbook - 1967

HISTORY of 36c

SAN DIEGO COUNTY FEDERATION OF REPUBLICAN WOMEN'S CLUBS

The County Federation had its beginning April 25, 1925 when a group of 85 loyal Republican women met with Mrs. Harriet Ballou presiding "to consider the advisabi- lity of forming a unit in this county of the Federation of Republican Women's Clubs!'

The first speaker, Miss Nellie Kelly, National Organizer, outlined the history of the organization which had its inception in Los Angeles when the Republican Study Club was formed in 1920.

Other speakers were Mrs. Florence Collins Porter of Los Angeles, President of South- ern Division, and hr. K. C. Fitzgerald, member of the San Diego County Central Committee who "spoke of the danger of women forming such an organization unless they were willing to be guided in political matters by the men."

Permanent officers were elected in June, 1925 with 67 charter members. The annual " dues were 50e. The executive board consisted of the elected officers, appointed standing committee chairmen and appointed district chairmen which later Minutes

- show to be the ones who got out the vote all over the county. These district chairmen were replaced as clubs were formed by the unit presidents. The ground work for a truly representative federation was laid from the start.

The Object of the organization, according to the bylaws adopted at the January 1926 Meeting were "to promote a wider knowledge of the principle policies of the Republican party; to encourage active citizenship; and to co-operate with the Republican State and County Central Committees in campaign work for the elections of Republican candidates for office."

The County Education Program was begun in April 1928.. Regular "Lessons" were planned with research topics assigned to members. This base broadened and led to some of our outstanding Republican women researchers who brought fame to our organimtion such as Mrs. Myrtis Myers, known statewide as an expert in law con- cerning education and Mrs. Margarete Francis whose national legislation reports were read and studied by women all over Southern California for 15 years.

A reading of the Minutes of Federation meetings provides a survey of history over the past 40 years. At the February 1927 meeting, a Mrs. Steward gave a "most interesting account of her personal recollections and work during the last drama- tic events of the long struggle for federal woman's suffrage.!! Other speakers over the years covered the Depression and the attendant New Deal policies, World War I1 and the post war years which brought with them the United IJations, Korea and currently Vietnam.

Most apparent is the continuing interest in preserving constitutional government against the threat of socialism and communism. As early as 1933, a Mrs. Grant told of attending several Communistic meetings, both in San Diego and Los Angeles, and warned of the "hold the Communistic beliefs are getting on this country and how we as patriotic women must be alert to this and always do what we can to off- set their teachings." The Federation worked toward this end, beginning with the motion in 1933 that "letters be sent to Senators McAdoo and Johnson and Congressman Burnham urging them to work and vote against the recognition of Soviet Russia" and continuing through the years with study and discussion groups. Two actions stand out in 1950 when in Fmrch representatives were chosen to represent the Federation in Sacramento and lobby against the World Federalists and later in October, a protest was adopted "against the flying of ANY flag parallel to the American Flag except. on special occasions as not being in accord with the concepts of our

San Diego County Federation Handbook - 1967

36d

Consti tut ional Government and a s being the entering wedge of a group of Soc i a l i s t i c Planners who desi re t o supplant o w form of Government with a Red-tinged World Government.

The Federation took an.ackive i n t e r e s t i n all elect ions , inv i t ing candidates t o speak and explain t h e i r platforms a t meetings and doing precinct work on t h e i r behalf. One instance of the i n t e r e s t , the willingness t o work and the effect ive- ness of t h e i r work is r e l a t ed i n the Minutes from 1939: "When a recent survey was made of La J o l l a d isc los ing the f a c t tha t 2Zb of the population was not regis tered, members of the Club were sworn i n a s deputy r e g i s t r a r s and covered the t e r r i t o r y completely. Neither the heat wave nor the succeeding storms could discourage the workers. Members a l s o cooperated with the Junior Chamber of Commerce in the 'Get Out the Vote' campaign and a record vote resulted."

S t a r t i ng with 67 char ter members i n 1925 the records show the membership at 320 in 1937. 145 of tha t number were i n the newly formed North County Federation. World Mar I1 evidently slowed t h e organizational e f f o r t a s 1942 showed 190 members but i t climbed t o 295 i n 1943 and t o 391 members i n 10 clubs i n 1950. In 1958 we had 19 clubs with 1510 members; i n 1962, 3000 members; i n 1.963, 4700 members and i n 1966 a grand t o t a l of 43 clubs and a membership of 5581. Such dynamic growth shows what dedicated and hard working women can accomplish when they join together i n working toward a common goal.

The accomplishments of the Federation a r e both tangible and intangible. Effect ive l e g i s l a t o r s e lected through -our support and leg i s la t ion . and current i s sues respond-.. ing t o our united voice a r e the tangible, but who can count the other: The v o t e r s . won over t o the Republican Party, the defense of our National inheri tance and the preservation of "The American May of Life." A s the Federated women have done i n the pas t , so w i l l they continue. Let us applaud the past and sa lu te the future. It i s . o u r s t o influence.

Past Presidents of the San Diego County Federation of Republican Women's Clubs

Mrs. Celia A. Dunham Mrs. Katherine Neihouse hrs. Susannah Whitelock Mrs. Diana Curt is hrs . L i l l i an Johnson Lehman Mrs. Lena Van Harten Mrs. Huth Bence F i r s . Rachel Wyllie Mrs. Ruth Cameron krs . Dorothy Cloyed b l r s . Dorothea Piccall Hazard hrs . Leslie MacMullen Mrs. Nancy Xsther Wessell Mrs. Nyrtis Nyers Mrs. Alma Sopkin Mrs. Huth Jackson Mrs..Eleanor Ring Mrs. Ann A. Pike krs. Grace Lawrenec! Thadkcrijy Mrs. Mary D o 4.n$em.~p :,

San s i c g ~ County Federation Handbook - l967

Sharp: This f e e l i n g about' no t being paid f o r t h e work, do you th ink t h a t t h a t was a f a i r l y common f e e l i n g and now it has switched over who 1 ly ?

Sto r r s : I don't know. Some of u s were very upset. I n f a c t , I was t a l k i n g t o a g a l up from San Bernardino and she was very upse t when t h i s went through t h e na t iona l meeting, t h a t t h e n a t i o n a l p re s iden t would be paid a salary. She thought it was t o t a l l y wrong because then you a r e no longer a volunteer. You a r e l i k e s t a f f . You a r e being pa id.

Sure, a t n a t i o n a l you have a g r e a t number of s t a f f t h a t a r e paid and properly should be, but aga in I can remember deploring, when we went from t h e American Red Cross, Mabel Boardman was t h e chairman. When Frankl in Roosevelt came in , he had a f r i e n d t h a t needed a job, so he put him i n a s t h e head of American Red Cross and he s t a r t e d paying him $50,000 a year o r something. It has been done every since--which, f rankly , I have never approved of , although I have always worked w i t h Red Cross. You always had t h e volunteers , women t h a t were women of background and experience and so f o r t h t h a t could come i n and do a b e a u t i f u l job.

So you have go t t en some of t h e commercialization, you might say, of some of these volunteer organiza t ions which I kind of deplore.

Again, you g e t t h e o the r s ide and they say, "Oh, t h e only way you can do t h i s t h e n i s i f you a r e r i c h and you have s o for th ." Not a t a l l , because it can always be f i n a n c i a l l y handled some way, some o the r way.

Sharp: I want you t o be a b l e t o g e t on t o your lunch and you a r e expect ing your gues t s t h i s afternoon. Are we g e t t i n g too l a t e now?

S to r r s : My husband and I don ' t e a t u n t i l about 1:30 anyway.

The Republican Par ty , The Long View -

Sharp: I want u s t o t r y t o sum t h e whole th ing up and t a l k about t h e long view of t h e Republican party, and a long view of your a c t i v i t i e s s ince you got s t a r t e d i n t h e very e a r l y s ix t i e s .

Storrs : Needless t o say, I think the Republican party i s growing. I th ink t h a t we a r e becoming more conservative. I th ink t h a t [President] Reagan i s being able t o lead a s he did i n Cal i fornia t o put t h e n a t i o n back on t h e t r ack . I don't t h i n k i t i s going t o be easy. I think it 's going t o be r e a l rough s tu f f but, a s f a r a s I am concerned, it i s the fu tu re of my grandchildren o r g rea t grandchildren because i f we continue the way we have, there i sn ' t going t o be any. The country w i l l be so down the dra in and become so weak, it w i l l be taken over. Now, remember, people don't mention the Communist threat . I found one i n f i l t r a t i o n not too long ago i n the Goldwater campaign where the Communists had i n f i l t r a t e d .

Now, I go back a long time i n this . My husband, my former husband [Stanhope ~ i n g ] , did a na t ional paper on i t f o r the National War College on p o l i t i c s , about the Russian push f o r power i n the eleventh century when they were out t o conquer the world. They went down t o Malta and even went down t o Madagascar. This i s what they were determined t o do. Now the Goldwater map (a map put out by the Goldwater people) shows where the Communists already had control and then put i n pink ones t h a t they were t ry ing t o ge t control of. I look a t t h i s and a l l of the pinks a r e gone, a r e now Communist controlled. Now i t 's even in to the white a reas on the map, the non-Communist areas--Central America, South America. The i n f i l t r a t i o n i s unbelievable.

Now, t h i s has been something of the conquering of the world t h a t the Communists always (or the Soviets o r whatever you want t o c a l l them, I don't know), always were out t o accomplish, whether it i s under the Lenin th ing or whatever. Now, today m i l i t a r i l y they a r e so f a r ahead of us t h a t it i s not funny a t a l l i n w e r y way, shape, o r form and ye t the country doesn't r e a l i z e it. They have no concept of the m i l i t a r y thing.

See, t h i s i s my navy background kind of s t u f f because you begin t o see these things and say, "huh?"

My f a t h e r saw the Japanese wanting t o conquer. He died when I was eleven and yet he said, "You've got t o be careful. They want t o conquer. They a r e t h i s kind of nation. But they didn't succeed.

Sharp: The party, your working with the party, i s very much--

Storrs : Yes, t o a g rea t extent the way I've been raised. Keep s t r eng th wi th in your country and keep your r i g h t s of your individuals , your f r e e en te rp r i se system, a republic , which t h i s na t ion was founded on, why people came here, t o ge t away from the things i n Europe, they were being forced t o do c e r t a i n things.

The same th ing went on t o a c e r t a i n ex t en t , you have t o remember, i n t h e Massachusetts colony when Governor Winthrop go t i n t o those things. I am happy t o say t h a t my ances to r s had sense enough t o l eave and go down t o Rhode I s l and a n d found t h e Rhode I s l and colony and g e t away from 'lou've go t t o be a Puritan," and ''you've g o t t o do t h i s , " and "you've g o t t o do that ." I n f a c t , Anne Butchinson, i f you have ever read any of t h a t h i s to ry , she i s a g rea t , g r ea t , g r e a t grandmother of mine.

Sharp: Oh, i s t h a t r i g h t ?

S to r r s : You bet .

Sharp: So you a r e d e f i n i t e l y a member of t h e DAR [Daughters of t h e American Revolution].

S to r r s : Oh, sure , and a Colonial Dame and a l l of t h a t s t u f f ,

But I be l i eve t h a t you have go t t o do things, When you see something happening, t r y t o a t l e a s t do a sma l l p a r t of helping o r opposing something t h a t you th ink i s t o t a l l y wrong,

[ v i s i t o r e n t e r s ] Oh, Mary Ann!

Transcr iber : Michelle S t a f fo rd F ina l Typis t : Sam Middlebrooks

TAPE GUIDE - Eleanor Ring Storrs

Date of Interview: February 15, 1983 tape 1 , s ide A tape 1 , s ide B tape2 , sideA tape 2 , s ide B tape 3 , s ide A [ s ide B not recorded]

INDEX - Eleanor Ring S t o r r s

Adams, Frank, 1-2, 21 Aging, U.S. Commission on, 27 appointments, t o o f f i c e , 22

Benedict, Marjor ie , 18 Bowler, Ann, 23 Brown, Edmund G., Sr. ( p a t ) , 33

Ca l i fo rn i a Federat ion of Republican Women, 8 , 10-11, 16, 32, 35-37

campaign management, 31-32 C i t i zens f o r Construct ive Action,

1-2, 31-32 Clark, William P., 23 communism, anti-communism, 38 Coronado

Coronado Bridge, 7-8 Democratic par ty , Democrats, 34

e l e c t i o n s , 1958, 19-20 e l e c t i o n s , 1962, 13-14 e l e c t i o n s , 1964, 17-21 e l e c t i o n s , 1966, 2, 31, 33 e l e c t i o n s , 1972, 28 e l e c t i o n s , 1976, 28

f e d e r a l government, 26-28 Fi res tone , Leonard, 19 F le tcher , Charles K., 11, 18 Ford, Gerald R., 28

Gehres, L e s l i e , 11 Goldwater, Barry, Sr., 17-20, 34,

38

Haerle , Paul R., 21 Hawkins, Paula, 24-25 Hosmer, Luci le Cal lan, 18, 34

Jackson, Ruth, 10-11, 17 Johnson, Gardiner, 23

Knowland, William F., 2, 17, 19, 21

Livermore, Putnam, 12 Luce, Gordon C., 12, 23

Nixon, Richard M., 13-14, 24, 28 Nofziger, Frankl in C. ( ~ y n ) , 31-32

Parkinson, Gaylord B., 11-12 Pike, Emily, 33

Raynes, Burt, 9 Reagan, Nancy, 2-3 Reagan, Ronald, before 1964, 8-9 Reagan, Ronald, campaigns, 1-3, 12,

23, 28 Reagan, Ronald, a s governor, 23-26,

28, 30 Reagan, Ronald, a s p re s iden t , 27,

29, 38 Reed, Thomas C., 19, 21-24, 28-29 Reinecke, Edward, 24 Republican Associates , 15-16 Republican National Committee, 20,

22-28 Republican na t iona l convention,

1972, 24-25, 28 Republican par ty , Republicans, 10-

3 9 Reynolds, Nancy Clark, 25, 33 Ring, Eleanor. See S t o r r s Rockefel ler , Nelson, 19

San Diego, Ca l i fo rn i a p o l i t i c s i n , 10-39

Screen Actors Guild, 2 Smith, C. Arnholt , 11

T u t t l e , Holmes, 19

voluntary organiza t ions , vo lunteers , 35-37

Walker, Robert C . , 15-16 Weinberger , Caspar , 12 White, F. Clifton, 17 Wilson, Pete, 16-17 Wilson, Robert C . , 8-9, 19 women, in p o l i t i c s , 7-39

Regional Oral History Office The Bancroft Library

University of California Berkeley, California

Government History Documentation Project Ronald Reagan Gubernatorial Era

Jack Wrather

ON FRIENDSHIP, POLITICS, AND,GOVERNMENT

An Interview Conducted by Gabrielle Morris

i n 1982

Copyright @ 1984 by the Regents of the University of California

Los Angeles Times February 18, 1985

GULY m m w I ta Arym nmn

Bonita Granville Wrather recently took over chairman of t h e board duties of company founded by her late husband. Jack.

Bonita Wrather Filk Void With Devotion to Business

By GARY LIBMAN

When she returned home from the hospital after her husband died. the first phone call Bonita Gran- ville Wrather received was from Resident and Mrs. Reagan.

The Reagans cried unabashedly. Mrs. Wrather said, over the loss of theu friend Jack Wrather. 66. who catapulted a Texas oil inheritance into a California entertainment conglomerate that included the Queen Mary. the Spmce W, the Disneyland H tel and television syndieationa ok'lassie' ' and the "Lone Ranger."

Former Cbll l Star Since that call Nov. 12. Bonita

Wrather. a fanner child star who played in 55 movies before pining her husband's. business, has cried often on her own about hi, faLaL 33-month battle a g a i cancer.

"I pas the biggest shock lo me:' she said in the living room of her five-bedroom. two-story Early American Bel-Air home recently, "is that through all of his illness. I really did feel he was going to make i f I had that kind of faith. And there must have been a r e u n that Cod did not decide thaf

"I always felt that Jack and I would end up together going to the moon. Or doina somethinu very

.lo .:'er.:'ill:u ~i . i l :!:iferr.nt rh~ngs. ';VL' ?Vcr(! !.he t/rsl pcopie I:, flv :e?s from Yrussels ro Xew Yors. :\'e wereonr to ( the firs: people !of!:: the Cancorde."

There w~ll be no rr!ps !o the moon. bur another substanna! chailenge awa~ted Bonita Wrather. 62. when she returned to work recently: She twk over as Wrather Corp.'~ chairman of the board. working closely with her son. Christopher. 32. who is pres~dent.

In their corporate headquarters on the fourth floor of a Beverly Hills bullding. she vows that her husband's office wlll reman unoc- cupied forsome time.

Lone Ranger's Saddle The office IS a large oak-paneled

room beh~nd a westward exposure of sliding glass doors. A bright orange LeRoy Neiman portrat of the Lone Ranger and Tonto domi- nates many Western art pieces. Three empty briefcases sit beside a large. L-shaped desk.

In a conference room next door, the first saddle used in the "Lone Ranger" television series rests on a sland near a case containing the masked man's pistol and silver bullets.

"I think Jack deserves to have advenuuous. ~ G a u e e we lived P l e m m BUSINESS, Paat 1s

BUSINESS: How Widow Fills the Void thth~d~-~mr . .

her husband's Catk . A kru w e e h ago;. however; sht- resume& and. is. swimming. man lapsthan eve: "As sick a. he. was." she s-

plsiner4:.*Jack wet to sy; 'Please go d o h and taktir-swim. hoity. .You. know - hoa r muck k t t e r it. makesyoufeel' - , . - ,

G . 1 leel.h@s saykg that to me andtdoitkaraeLfindthatI~er

to the office wrh a much cleafer "MY I J t haa changed much head and I have a k4 mom energy. slnee my hmband pamd away." --

I me d i s c i p m it ~ g i v e . i n to . k.!$my~ t w 3 m l , , ~ ' certain-th-. I'm no gmti 'Lhavt to have somesortof diwiph- It's . . & ~ s ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ $ ~ ~ . been my life" ; . . . , t d d y w exactly howlvc lived a&

~s the helpllne conunurr she what w e liked to do and all the w~ll feet her way along and see paumv w e s e t Now I'm not nar- what happens whaLtht m e r ur"

TABLE OF CONTENTS -- Jack Wrather

Longtime Friendship wi th t h e Reagans and t h e Goldwaters

Encouraging Reagan t o Run f o r Governor

Reagan's Business Acumen

Republican National Conventions, 1968-76: Reagan's Nomination

Helping S e l e c t t h e Cabinet

Limi ta t ions on Making Changes i n Government

Re-election; Reagan As Pres ident and A s Governor

Reagan's A t ti tude Toward Governorship and Presidency : "This i s Fun"

TAPE GUIDE

INDEX

LONGTIME FRIENDSHIP WITH THE REAGANS AND THE GOLDWATERS

[Date of Interview: 30 September 1982]//i/

[Preliminary d iscuss ion of t h e p ro jec t and M r . Wrather's f r i endsh ip with Ronald Reagan. ]

Morris: L e t ' s t a l k a l i t t l e b i t on tape about t h e th ings t h a t you ':have been t e l l i n g me.

Wrather: I ' ll g ive t h e parameters of my re l a t ionsh ip , because then it w i l l i d e n t i f y t h e a reas t h a t I wouldn't be of use t o you, but o the r

, people would be, f o r i n s t ance l i k e Holmes [Tu t t l e ] o r B i l l French Smith o r people l i k e t h a t . My f r iendship wi th Ronnie began through my wife, who is Bonita Granvi l le and who appeared i n a motion p i c tu re wi th Ron a t Warner Brothers many years ago c a l l e d Angels Wash Their Faces, wi th t h e h a d End Kids. Ronnie and Bunny have been f r i e n d s ever s ince . That was way back I th ink i n t h e e a r l y '40s. They were both a t Warner Brothers.

When I came out here a f t e r t h e war and I met Bonita, who became my wife--I met he r i n 1946 and we were married i n '47-- Ron was married t o Jane Wyman. We became f r i e n d s of t h e i r s , a s is n a t u r a l ~ w i t h people i n t h e indus t ry who worked together . We l i k e d each o t h e r . Ron and Jane, of course, separated and divorced, and Ron married a young lady who my wife knew, i n f a c t knew a t MGM. My wife had gone t o MC;M from Warner Brothers with Mervyn Leroy t o do a couple of p i c tu res , and she knew Nancy Davis the re and l i k e d Nancy very much.

////This symbol ind ica t e s t h a t a tape o r a segment of a tape has begun o r ended. For a guide t o t h e tapes see page l9 .

Wrather: When Nancy and Ron got married, we became even c l o s e r f r i e n d s of t h e i r s and have remained so over t h e years . It's j u s t t h a t simple. It 's j u s t l i k e any f r i endsh ip t h a t you have i n your l i f e o r any- one e l s e has. It 's hard t o p u l l i t a p a r t and s a y t h i s and t h i s and t h i s . We were f r i e n d s , we went out toge ther . We saw each o t h e r s o c i a l l y . We took each o t h e r t o dfnner. [ laughs] You know, j u s t t h e th ings t h a t f r i e n d s do.

Morris: Talked shop toge ther and t h a t kind of th ing?

Wrather: I don ' t know; my wi fe would have t o answer t h a t . But I never was p ro fe s s iona l ly connected wi th Ron, o r businesswise. A t t h a t time h e was i n t h e Screen Actors Guild and h e was i n t h e motion p i c t u r e indus t ry . Although I was i n t h e motion p i c t u r e i ndus t ry a t t h a t t ime, we weren't working toge ther , n o r w e r e he and Bunny working toge ther . So i t was purely a s o c i a l r e l a t i o n s h i p a t t h a t po in t .

That went on from those e a r l y years t o 1964 when Barry Goldwater r an [ f o r president] ; we were very c l o s e f r i e n d s of t h e Goldwaters. I n f a c t , I owned t h e Balboa Bay Club, and Barry and Peggy had an apartment t he re , and we d id , too, r i g h t next t o them. I n t h e summer Barry ran, we spent t h e summer a t t h e Balboa Bay Club, and Barry would come back on t h e weekends from t h e campaign t o - be wi th Peggy.

Morris: And r e s t up?

Wrather: Yes, and we would have d inner wi th them Saturday n igh t s usua l ly , o r something. And I saw a l l t h e problems t h a t he was having and and what have you.

Morris: He would campaign on a Monday-through-Friday b a s i s ?

Wrather: Most of t h e time, yes . He'd be back--maybe i t wouldn't be a week- end. Maybe he'd come i n on a Tuesday n ight and spend a n ight o r two. It seemed, i f I remember c o r r e c t l y , i t was usua l ly t h e weekend. He'd come i n a number of times i n t h e s u k e r and we'd s e e each o the r . Now by t h e time of t h e e l e c t i o n , you know, he had got ten i n t o more d i f f i c u l t i e s ; he was no t running wel l , and we a l l knew t h a t he had t roub le , was going t o have t rouble .

Morris: Was h e aware t h a t h e was having se r ious problems?

Wrather: ' Yes, I t h i n k so. He had t o be aware--all of t h e p o l l s and everything e l s e .

Wrather: I remember t h a t summer, Ron w a s t r y i n g t o help Barry. I ' m not r e a l l y sure , because I wasn't involved i n it, of a l l t h e d e t a i l s of what Ron did. But i t culminated i n Ron doing t h a t t e l e v i s i o n commercial t h a t w a s so exce l l en t , and t h a t d idn ' t he lp because it was r i g h t a t the very end of t he thing. It might have helped, but I mean it d idn ' t t u r n the t r i c k , because i t was r i g h t a t t h e end of t h e race. I th ink i f we'd r ea l i zed Ron's a b i l i t y and power t o appeal t o t h e public , you know, maybe ear l ie r - -

Morris: Had moved him ea r l i e r - -

Wrather: Yes, maybe he would have won:, because Ron was very anxious t o help, and he was extremely i n t e r e s t e d i n t h e par ty and very l o y a l t o t h e people running.

Encouraging Reagan t o Run For Governor

Wrather: Then, one n ight we were a t a pa r ty a t one of our various houses. The so-cal led k i tchen cabine t people were kind of t he ones t h a t hung together wi th ~ o n i That 's why they ' r e ca l l ed the k i tchen cabinet , I guess.

Morris: They seemed t o a l l have enough time t o a c t u a l l y s i t down with him and t a l k about--?

Wrather: We a l l saw each o the r very o f t en , sometimes seve ra l times during t h e week, a t each o ther l . s homes. The k i tchen cabine t b a s i c a l l y was Holmes Tu t t l e , Jus Dart, Henry Sa lva to r i , B i l l French Smith, me--who e l s e ? B i l l Wilson. Jack Hume from San Francisco. And seve ra l o the r s . I don' t mean t o leave anyone out . There were seve ra l o thers . Ted Cummings came i n and was a c t i v e . But anyway, it was b a s i c a l l y people who were s o c i a l f r i ends .

Morris: Let your h a i r down and--

Wrather: Yes, we j u s t were a t dinners and barbeques and cock ta i l p a r t i e s and th ings together , s o c i a l i z i n g , and we would g e t t a lk ing about Barry 's t roubles . Ron of course had been i n t e r e s t e d i n p o l i t i c s , and a s head of t h e Screen Actors Guild he had got ten very involved. Those were t h e days he w a s a c t u a l l y a Democrat; but he had got ten very heavi ly involved i n p o l i t i c a l thoughts and ideas and he had moved over t o becoming a Republican because i t epitomized, a s has been very evident , h i s phi losophies .

Wrather: So w e would a t these groups--and I can ' t i den t i fy da tes o r anything, because we don ' t keep calendars of those types of things--we'd s i t and discuss what the h e l l happened t o Barry, why, hnd how t e r r i f i c t h a t commercial w a s of Ron's. I don't even know who w a s t h e f i r s t one t o say it--somebody. Probably Jus o r Holmes: "God, Ron, you ought t o get r e a l a c t i v e and ge t i n t o t h i s . We need people l i k e you." And s b f o r t h .

And Ron would say, "Well, I ' ve thought about i t , but I don' t know. I ' m kind of r e t i c e n t . I don' t know whether t h i s is the ' time o r whether I r e a l l y want t o commit myself t o it.'' He had a career , you know; he w a s doing very well.

Then I remember one n ight a t a party--I be l ieve i t w a s a t B i l l Wilson's. Some of t h e ki tchen cabinet members may have s l i g h t l y d i f f e r e n t remembrances of d i f f e r e n t things; I th ink some- th ing happened a t one time, and maybe one of them thinks i t was a t another evening o r something. But as f a r a s I ' m concerned, I remember one n ight a t B i l l Wilson's--and B i l l was a member of t h e ki tchen cabinet--all t h e men were gathered kind of English s t y l e a f t e r dinner together and t h e l a d i e s were i n t h e o the r room. We were t a lk ing about t h e problems of t h e party, and, of course, t h e governorship r ace was coming up. This was before the '66 race, l i k e i n l a t e '64, '65, a f t e r t h e Goldwater race . And--

Morris: People weren't too happy with Pat Brown a s governor?

Wrather: No, our people weren't too happy with Pat Brown as governor. We were Republicans, and--

Morris: And you weren't too happy with Richard Nixon?

Wrather: Yes, we were happy with Richard Nixon. When I say we, I was happy with Richard Nixon. I felt--of course, Dick hadn' t w o n a t t h a t point . This w a s p r i o r t o h i s running and winning. He had l o s t t he Ca l i fo rn ia governorship, which I personally had advised him not t o run f o r , but t h a t ' s r e a l l y pas t h i s to ry .

Anyway, we were a l l the re jawing a f t e r dinner one n igh t , and t a l k got around t o Ron and how much we needed somebody l i k e Ron i n t h e governorship; Pat Brown had t o be gotten out , t h a t he was a d i s a s t e r , a do-nothing and worse than t h a t .

Wrather: We j u s t s a t and t a lked t o Ron and s a i d , "Ron, God, you've got t o run f o r t h e governor. You've j u s t got to ." And w e ta lked and ta lked . The g a l s f i n a l l y came i n and s a i d , "We've got t o go home. It 's l a t e . " Somebody wanted t o go home, and. s o w e broke up.

Ron s a i d , "Well, I ' l l th ink about it," and so f o r t h . And a s t h e th ing progressed, we'd t a l k . f u r t h e r . It j u s t was a n evolution- a r y process i n my book.

I do r e a l i z e t h a t t h e r e were some o the r t a l k s going on in- between these a f f a f r s , t h a t Holmes would g e t a l l ho t and bothered and c a l l Ron, l i k e Holmes does. You know, he ' s a g rea t salesman! "And Ron, you've got t o do i t . You've got t o do i t f o r t h e country," and t h i s and t h a t . And he was r i g h t , a s we thought. I ' m su re Jus had some p r i v a t e t a l k s wi th Ron. We a l l assured Ron a t one time o r another ' t h a t i f he would run we'd be a v a i l a b l e t o him, any of us o r a l l of u s , f o r any kind of advice o r he lp , o r he lp ing him put toge ther any bus iness plans o r helping him wi th personnel s e l e c t i o n . And t h a t we would obviously g e t behind him f i n a n c i a l l y and t h a t we would r a i s e money f o r him; we'd do everything poss ib l e s o t h a t he wouldn't have t o worry about t h e campaign funds t o run on--which, of course, even i n those days was a b i g worry.

Morris: Who amongst you had had some experience with campaigns? How d id you--?

Wrather: I don ' t know. I hadn ' t , except wi th Barry, and with Dick Nixon when h e r a n f o r t h e governorship [1962]. I had been--what do they c a l l it?--co-finance chairman.

tbrris: That meant you had t o do t h e actual--?

Wrather: Well, we were working wi th , I th ink , Maury [Maurice] Stans a t t h a t time. There were s e v e r a l of us . I wasn' t t h e only one, bu t I went i n and I helped r a i s e money; t h e r e were s e v e r a l of us doing i t f o r Dick.

I had t r i e d t o be h e l p f u l t o Barry, because he was a good f r i e n d , although I d i d n ' t th ink h e should run, e i t h e r . That had been t h e ex t en t of my--I had supported Dick Nixon when he ran f o r Congress o r i g i n a l l y ; i n t h e Senate , f i n a n c i a l l y . But I hadn' t been--

Morris: Who brought Dick Nixon t o your a t t e n t i o n ? He was a r e a l unknown i n '46 when h e r a n f o r Congress.

Wrather: I don ' t even remember. I h a t e t o throw names around when I c a n ' t r e a l l y say a s a f a c t , bu t somewhere i n t h e back of my mind, I th ink i t was S i Fluor . You know, t h e Fluor Corporation--Bob Fluor is h i s nephew, you know, who i s t h e head of i t now.' I ' m no t su re .

[ I n a no te dated May 19 , 1983, M r . Wrather added: Although I supported Dick Nixon i n 1946, I was r e a l l y no t very a c t i v e bu t became more a c t i v e i n t h e Senate r a c e aga ins t Douglas.]

Wrather: S i w a s a g r e a t f r i e n d of mine and a t e r r i f i c guy and a g r e a t Republican, very s t rong Republican i n every way. I be l i eve S i got m e i n t e r e s t e d i n Dick. It might have been one o r two o t h e r s , too , bu t h i s f a c e s t i c k s ou t i n my memory.

But anyway, t h a t had been t h e ex t en t of my p o l i t i c a l s t u f f , and then I got i n with Ron. I got deeper involved wi th our f r i e n d s who later became c a l l e d t h e k i tchen cabine t , because w e a l l wanted Ron t o win and t o be successfu l . And he d id win, and we a l l were successfu l under Holmes T u t t l e ' s and J u s t i n Dart's guidance i n r a i s i n g t h e money t h a t w a s necessary. Henry S a l v a t o r i had a b i g spo t i n i t , too. Under t h e i r d i r e c t i o n , w e helped; we cont r ibu ted a l o t and r a i s e d a l o t .

Morris : Rais ing t h e money is a tough enough job; what about deciding how t o spend i t ?

Wrather: I had nothing t o do with t h e campaign per se; t h a t was, a s you say, Spencer and--

Morris : And Roberts.

W r a t h e ~ : Roberts. And, l e t 's see--

Morris: They were a p r e t t y tough bunch, too. Who found them and decided t o g ive them a--?

'a ther : Well, I would say t h a t Holmes T u t t l e was as b i g a s i n g l e inf luence on t h e campaign and on Ron a s anyone, o r bigger than any one ind iv idua l . Holmes i n h i s dynamism and h i s i n t e r e s t i n Ron, I would say was prime. Then l a t e r B i l l French Smith became very important i n regard t o helping Ron with h i s personnel s e l e c t i o n s and br inging good people i n t o government, and so f o r t h .

Reagan's Business Acumen

Morris: Wereyousurprisedwhenyoupulleditoffanddidindeedelecta governor f i r s t shot out?

Wrather: No, w e might have been a l i t t l e b i t su rp r i s ed a t t h e s i z e of t h e vote , but we thought we would e l e c t Ron, because we had confidence i n him. We f e l t t h a t he appealed t o people, t h a t he was a b l e t o u se t h e medium of t e l e v i s i o n very wel l , p lu s t h e f a c t t h a t h e was an exce l l en t speaker. And we f e l t t h a t h i s i deas , which I must say ( I guess w e wouldn't have been a s much f o r him i f w e hadn ' t ) were p a r a l l e l with most of ours . We,thought they were r i g h t ideas

Wrather: and t h a t they would win the day because t h e o the r ideas t h a t we were f i g h t i n g were such dormant, a rcha ic kinds of ideas i n regard t o government f inances and f i s c a l pol icy and everything. You know, o ld smoke-filled room s t u f f . So anyway, w e thought w e had something, and w e did. We happened t o be c o r r e c t , and t h a t w a s t h a t .

Morris : Was it p a r t i c u l a r l y t h e bus iness kind of p r i n c i p l e s t h a t you were in t e re s t ed i n seeing--?

Wrather: Y e s , and Ron w a s extremely in t e re s t ed . Not many people r ea l i zed it, because he was a n a c t o r , but Ron himself i s a very good businessman, a good business bra in . He understands economics, and he understands f i s c a l problems and po l i c i e s . He understands t h a t one g rea t , bas i c r u l e t h a t , unfor tunate ly , a l o t of t h e p o l i t i c i a n s e i t h e r don' t understand o r they push a s i d e i n t h e rush t o g e t votes , and t h a t i s t h a t you can't--whether i t be p o l i t i c s o r a family o r a business o r anything else--you c a n ' t spend more money than you've got very long without going broke, un le s s you've got a r i c h uncle who's support ing you, l i k e the government has been support ing everybody. So Ron has a very good business sense. We thought t h a t w a s very important.

Morris : Some people have sa id t h a t they t h i n k he learned a l o t about business working wi th General E l e c t r i c , when he was doing those p lant t ou r s and th ings l i k e tha t . Did he ever t a l k about t h a t ?

Wrather: Yes, I ' v e heard Ron t a l k about t h a t a t some lenghh. Obviously, when you're being assoc ia ted wi th people i n business , i n t e l l i g e n t people, and you're seeing how money is spent and what happens and surp luses and so forth--yes, t h e r e ' s no doubt about it, I th ink t h a t those were formative days f o r him. I don ' t t h ink he was imbued wi th any GE pol icy o r anything l i k e t h a t , except j u s t good business p r inc ip l e s . Whether i t be a b ig business o r a l i t t l e business l i k e mine, you've got t o ope ra t e on business p r inc ip l e s . Nobody opera tes under a d i f f e r e n t s e t of ru l e s ; we a l l opera te under t h e same bas i c s e t of r u l e s .

Morris: Then d id you go up . t o Sacramento and he lp him g e t s e t t l e d there?

Wrather: No, I d i d n ' t personal ly p a r t i c i p a t e on a continuing b a s i s i n t h e government up there . Several of them did. Now, B i l l French Smith d id , and Holmes d id , and--I don' t know--Ed M i l l s , I th ink , did; and a few of t h e o the r s . I went up t o Sacramento on a number of d i f f e r e n t occasions and a f f a i r s , bu t - the main contac t t h a t I had wi th Ron during t h e e igh t years t h a t Ron was governor was e i t h e r down here o r back e a s t o r a t t h e conventions--

Republican National Conventions, 1968-76: Reagan's Nomination

Morris: Did you go along t o some of the conventions?

Wrather: Y e s , I went, i n f a c t , . to the convention i n Miami. I was not a delegate t o tha t . I was a delegate i n '76 and '80. A t the .

convention i n Miami I was not a delegate. W e w e r e down there. I n f a c t , w e had a par ty f o r Ron and Nancy. The Bloomingdales had a par ty f o r Ron and Nancy; and we had a par ty f o r a l l the kitchen cabinet and Ron and Nancy, a t the Jockey Club. W e had a number of get-togethers with Ron. Although I was not a delegate t o tha t .

I n f a c t , I r e a l l y wasn't too anxious t o become a delegate, but i n '76 1: j u s t decided I should, you know, t h a t he r e a l l y had a chance and t h a t w e a l l ought t o work a s hard a s poss ib le t o do i t , so I agreed to become a delegate; and I was i n '80.

Morris: I n ' 76 and '80?

Wrather: Y e s .

Morris: But i n '68, you didn ' t think he r e a l l y had a chance t o take the nomination?

Wrather: No, t h a t ' s not why I didn ' t become a delegate. I j u s t d idn ' t f e e l t h a t I was t h a t important t o be a delegate, and I really--I guess I don't know the bes t way t o say it--I r e a l l y wasn't so sure t h a t t h a t was the f a t e of Ron t o be nominated then. I thought i t might be a l i t t l e e a r l y and t h a t i t might not be good fo r him even t o be nominated.

Morris: This was a s e a r l y a s '68, t h a t would have been too e a r l y ?

Wrather: Y e s .

Morris: S t i l l too ea r ly i n '72?

Wrather: Y e s . I j u s t thought tha t was a l i t t l e ea r ly , t h a t the s i t u a t i o n wasn't r i g h t f o r him.

Morris: The s i t u a t i o n p o l i t i c a l l y , na t ional ly?

Wrather: Y e s , p o l i t i c a l l y . Nationally. That i t wasn't qu i t e r i g h t , and I didn ' t want t o see him beaten. Dick [Nixon] had been beaten a couple of times. H e had a fantastic--you know, then coming back up; he was defeated a couple of times.

Wrather: I d i d n ' t want t o see Ron defea ted , and I j u s t d i d n ' t th ink these were the times. Now, i n ' 76 I r e a l l y d id . I thought he r e a l l y should have i t this t i m e . And he should have. I l i k e J e r r y [Gerald R. Ford], b u t Ron was the one who could have got ten e l ec t ed .

Morris: J e r r y d idn ' t come through c l e a r l y enough as a candidate?

Wrather: And J e r r y had no t been e l e c t e d , so nobody knew h i s s t r e n g t h o r weakness, because the re was no e l e c t i o n .

Morris : H e ' d k e n the re i n Congress.

Wrather: He'd been picked.

Morris: Were M r . Nixon's problems a t t h a t po in t a l i a b i l i t y t o Ford i n t ry ing t o g e t e l e c t e d himself?

Wrather: I th ink they were. You know, on the pardon and s o f o r t h . People, a l o t of people, were s t i l l b i t t e r about t h a t . P lus the f a c t t h a t J e r r y hadn ' t been a p re s iden t t h a t people had got ten t o know. They hadn' t had t o vote f o r him o r a g a i n s t him, s o they d i d n ' t know--

There's no th ing wrong wi th Je r ry ; I l i k e J e r r y , and I th ink J e r r y i s a h e l l of a l o t smarter than a l o t of people give him c r e d i t f o r . But I thought t h a t Ron ought t o g e t t he nomination. And I f e e l t o t h i s day t h a t i f he had been nominated, Jimmy Carter would never have been p re s iden t . Now, I could be wrong, and none of us can look back and prove any of those things.

A s i t worked ou t , i t worked ou t even b e t t e r , because wi th Carter going i n , i t w a s a c u t and d r i ed s i t u a t i o n a t t h e end, because Carter made such an ass of himself . Again, I ' m s u r e he ' s a very decent and, I think, even i n t e l l i g e n t guy, b u t he j u s t made an ass of himself . H e d idn ' t do anything; he went from one s i d e t o t he o ther . And he gave people of t h i s country such a sense of i n s e c u r i t y t h a t , during t h a t last famous debate t h a t he and Ron had, i t was j u s t s o obvious t h a t he r e a l l y d i d n ' t know what he w a s t a l k i n g about. You know, when Ron s a i d , "Jimmy, there you go again", o r something l i k e t h a t , everybody i n t he United S t a t e s s a i d , "That's it. " [laughs ]

They s a i d , "We agree w i t h you, Ron." Everybody t a lked back t o t he t e l e v i s i o n set .

Morris: I n '76, what do you th ink turned th ings around?

Wrather: The p a r t y w a s scared t o dea th of l o s ing , and t h e word i n Kansas City--I w a s i n a l l of those meetings and every th ing wi th the Reagan

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group. I was even i n meetings with the Ford group, because some of my f r i ends w e r e involved i n it; we w e r e going back and f o r t h from the Alameda Plaza Hotel t o the Crown Central having meetings. I was kind of one of the emissaries going back and fo r th . The pa r ty bas ica l ly kept ta lk ing about incumbent, incumbent, incumbent, l i k e i t meant anything.

W e kept saying, " ~ e ' s no t an incumbent. H e was never e lec ted . . He j u s t happens t o have been se lec ted f o r t h e o f f i c e t o play the term out , which is n o t aga ins t him, bu t he 's no incumbent. So you don't have an incumbent. Why don't you nominate someone who can ge t elected?" m i c h turned ou t t o be the t r u t h . " Je r ry was r e a l l y no t a t rue incumbent. That was the only th ing we had against--

Were there people who owed Je r ry favors from previous e l e c t i o n s that-- ?

Y e s , I assume so. But I think bas ica l ly i t was t h e f e a r t h a t he was the incumbent, and i f they l e f t him they'd l o s e a l l t h a t s t r eng th of having--

i/i/ Was the concern of your group i n the Cal i fornia delegation t h a t there were s t i l l fee l ings about the Watergate problems with which M r . Reagan was c l e a r l y not i d e n t i f i e d t h a t would make i t d i f f i c u l t f o r him t o win? Was t h a t a considerat ion i n '76?

I ' m not su re I understand your question, but we d idn ' t worry about t h a t i n regard t o Ron. I n regard t o Ford, I think there was more of a worry than--

Was t h a t a p a r t of the discussion i n Kansas City, t h a t i t would be b e t t e r t o get away from any i d e n t i f i c a t i o n with the Watergate problems?

Well, the Watergate th ing was always up i n f r o n t i n everything. I don't remember the s p e c i f i c discussion. I can remember discussions about Watergate, bu t t o t e l l you the t r u t h , i t was s i x years ago and I don' t remember the context of i t with regard t o tha t . I ' m sure tha t something s imi la r t o t h a t was sa id . Because i t was so obvious. Ron was clean. J e r r y was clean, except he had done a very unpopular thing, which was t o pardon Nixon. So t h a t had s o r t of t a in ted him a l i t t l e b i t . I think i t was the th ing t o do, but I mean a l o t of the publ ic d idn ' t .

Right. Would you say t h a t you were working c lose ly with the par ty , o r was the group of people t h a t you were close t o primari ly in te r - e s t ed i n nominating M r . Reagan?

Wrather: No, I was a delegate t h a t was assigned t o Reagan. You know, the California delegates were a l l assigned t o vote f o r Reagan. I was working f o r Ronnie.

Morris: Was there any pressure within the California delegation to switch a f t e r the f i r s t b a l l o t ?

Wrather : I won' t say there was none, but i t was minor, because most of the people i n the California delegation were Reagan people. So i t was minor.

A t one time maybe--you know, there ' s always people who, when they think they're going t o lose out here and gain over here, want to jump s ides , so there might have been a few. But generally speaking, the California delegation was p r e t t y s o l i d f o r Ron. There was one l i t t l e fac t ion i n i t t h a t had s o r t of given us some trouble and so fo r th , but I don' t even remember t h e i r names.

Morris: What w e r e they in te res ted i n ?

Wrather: I think they were bas ica l ly no t Reagan people and were more in te res ted i n Ford, I think. But t h a t was a minor, minor p a r t of the delegation.

Helping Select the Cabinet

Morris: On a l l these e lec t ions , i t sounds a s i f once you signed on i n the '66 campaign, t h a t there was a group of you that--

Wrather: W e went r i g h t on through. Right up through '80, and a l o t of us up through--I say a l o t of us, the ki tchen cabinet people were on the t r a n s i t i o n team.

W e were the group that--you know, i t ' s been a l l wr i t t en about-- t h a t Ron asked t o help him s e l e c t h i s cabinet which culminated the Saturday before Thanksgiving i n meeting with Ron a l l day and going over every single--. He' d asked us t o come up with some leading names i n the country f o r each secretaryship and t o be able t o discuss pro and con and to sel l o r unsel l , and to have severa l f o r each posi t ion. H e didn' t want us deciding t h a t so-and-so was [ to be] the Secretary of S ta te , M r . President , and then he'd have nobody [ to choose from] .

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H e s a i d , "I want three o r four o r f i v e o r six, and then w e ' l l d i scuss a l l of them, and I'll e i t h e r decide on one o r 1'11 pick someone else t h a t you havent t t o l d m e about ." [laughs] A s i t worked ou t , I think out of the cabinet a l l bu t two o r th ree were people t h a t w e had presented t o the President .

That you had worked up and ta lked about?

Yes, and then w e went back to Washington and worked with each secretary-appointee, t o people h i s department and t o make suggestions about a s s i s t a n t s e c r e t a r i e s , undersecre tar ies , deputy s e c r e t a r i e s , and so f o r t h . W e d i d t h a t f o r q u i t e a period, and then w e disbanded and--

What departments did you lend a hand with?

I worked on two o r three. Or ig ina l ly I worked on Agricul ture. Dif ferent ones of us took d i f f e r e n t departments as s p e c i a l t i e s . But then w e a l l worked together , and I worked on Defense and S ta t e .

That 's q u i t e an. undertaking.

Y e s . You know, the funny p a r t about i t , Gabr ie l le , is t h a t i t had never been done before t h a t way, t h a t we have seen i n h i s t o r y o r read about i n h i s to ry . We don' t know of any president--Kennedy had h i s so-called Harvard cronies t h a t he consulted with, but--

And Carter made q u i t e a l o t about going about h i s t r a n s i t i o n i n a thorough way.

Yes, b u t he had a bunch of--he r e a l l y didn't--. For ins tance , Ham [Hamilton] Jordan and Jody Powell and G r i f f i n Bell--most people r e a l l y dkdn' t get together to do t h i s job. They sat and jawed together , o r they s e n t him a note t h a t he ought t o do t h i s o r tha t . He d id have a l o t of advice from f r i ends , but i t was no coordinated th ing t h a t he had orches t ra ted .

You fellows a l l s a t around i n a boardroom l i k e t h i s and went through p i l e s of paper?

That 's r i g h t , and w e had a l o t of top-grade s t a f f work done, l o t s of computer work done. We had Pen [Pendleton] James with us , who l a t e r w a s appointed Director of Personnel f o r the White House.

Is t h a t a person?

Pendleton James. H e j u s t l e f t t h i s l a s t week. I j u s t got a l e t t e r from him. H e ' s a headhunter, and he ' s j u s t gone back i n t o p r iva te p r a c t i c e from the White House.

Morris: Where i s he located?

Wrather: H e ' s i n New York. No, w e did i t very profess ional ly , and we had been asked by Ron; we d idn ' t do t h i s and f o i s t ourselves on him. W e had been asked by him a t the time of the e l ec t ion , would w e help him do t h i s job, t h a t i t was such a huge job and t h a t he couldn't possibly do i t .

No individual can do i t and ge t the b e s t people. It takes a tremendous l o t of t a lk ing t o people, too. Several people w e picked d idn ' t want t o have anything t o do with i t . I mean, they j u s t d idn ' t want t o leave where they w e r e and go t o Washington o r something. Top people.

Morris: Did you br ing people i n t o Washington t o be interviewed?

Wrather: Y e s . H e wanted t o pick h i s cabinet a s soon a s possible. H e wanted t o pick them by Thanksgiving, bu t he d idn ' t g e t them picked and announced [by then], a s was the custom.

Morris: Did he br ing anybody i n t o b r i e f you a s a group? This business of who a r e the appointees i n government, both s t a t e and federa l , was one topic--

Wrather: You know, Ed Meese did one of the most b r i l l i a n t b r i e f ings of us f o r two o r three days, a t our o f f i c e s a t the a i r p o r t out here, f o r the e lec t ion .

Morris: Before the e l ec t ion?

Wrather: Yes. About the processes of government and each department. W e got lists of every s i n g l e job i n every department and what each job did, the spec ia l ty , what each thing-Assis t a n t Secretary of So-and-So--meant, the s igni f icance of the job. It was a b r i l l i a n t analys is . Ed Meese--I tel l you, I 've known Ed f o r a long time and had a l o t of respect f o r him, bu t a f t e r t h a t t h a t guy did a monu- mental job. And a t the end of those two o r th ree days we were about a s c lose t o being expert a s you can ge t without having spent a few years on the scene.

Limitations on Making Changes i n Government

Morris: Did he r a i s e ideas t h a t you hadn't thought of before?

Wrather: No, t h i s wasn't about individual people.

No, but about the process of government. Morris :

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W e discussed d i f f e r e n t departments; w e knew what the President- e l e c t wanted t o do i n regard t o two o r three departments, l i k e Education, f o r ins tance , and Energy.

Was i t t rue t h a t he wanted t o dismantle those two going i n ?

There is no doubt about i t . We've been wanting t o dismantle Energy f o r [laughs]--forever.

Since i t was set up?

Y e s . The t rouble was t h a t a s we looked i n t o the s i t u a t i o n , w e found out things before w e went i n t h a t o the r presidents-elect and t h e i r people d idn ' t f ind out , which is the l i m i t a t i o n s on doing any thing. W e went i n knowing the l imi ta t ions , and the f a c t t h a t i n the Department of Energy--I'm j u s t using these f igures , I ' ve forgot ten the exact figures--out o f , say, twenty-seven thousand employees ( l e t ' s j u s t use t h a t because t h a t ' s not too f a r from wrong) there w e r e only about nine hundred t h a t you could f i r e o r do anything with, because the rest of them a r e tenured, i n e f f e c t . They can ' t be f i r ed . We talked about bui ld ing a huge governmental f a c i l i t y somewhere outs ide of Washington and moving a l l of them out there. [ laughter ] A l l of them we wanted t o ge t r i d of . Having one huge department t h a t d id nothing except have a hundred and e ighty thousand people working.

A home f o r people you thought w e r e not producing i n government.

That 's r igh t . So we learned the l imitat ions--

When you say the l imi ta t ions on government, you mean the l imitat ions-- ?

Limitat ions on doing things, personnelwise. W e learned the l imi ta t ions , f o r ins tance with regard t o Energy and c e r t a i n o the r departments, about how d i f f i c u l t i t would be t o dismantle o r p u l l apa r t o r reassign o r change. The f r ightening thing t h a t I learned i n a l l these months t h a t I worked on t h i s p ro jec t was the f a c t t h a t the government is almost unchangeable. It's almost monolithic and unchangeable.

Wrather: Unfortunately, t h a t ' s the thing t h a t ' s h i t t i n g them i n the face i n regard t o a l o t of the budgetary problems. Entitlements a r e f ixed. Things a r e f ixed. C i v i l se rv ice , ent i t lement , the laws, the congressional laws t h a t e s t a b l i s h these departments. So anyone who goes i n f i g h t s t h a t same problem. I ' m s u r e t h a t almost every president t h a t goes i n , Democratic, Republican, o r what have you, thinks, " I ' m going t o r e a l l y put some e f f i c i ency i n here . I t There have been some very f i n e pres idents on both s ides . They're not l i k e these p o l i t i c i a n s i n Congress, who the minute they're e l ec ted s t a r t thinking about how they're going t o g e t re-elected. You know, the only way t o ge t re-elected is t o buy votes. It 's B

j u s t t h a t simple.

Re-election; Reagan As President And As Governor

Morris: You fellows were thinking about ge t t ing Mr. Reagan re-elected i n 1970, once you got him e lec ted i n 1966.

Wrather: You mean i n the s t a t e ?

Morris : Right.

Wrather: Oh, yes. We were thinking about t h a t , bu t we weren't thinking about i t , and I must say t h i s very definitely-we had shown through what Ron did i n the s t a t e government i n h i s f i r s t t e r m , t h a t w e were se r ious about t ry ing t o put business techniques i n t o the government and s top giving money away t o buy votes, and we put our money where our mouth was. We didn ' t ge t i n and say we're going t o do so-and-so, a n d then a l l of a sudden turn around and s t a r t what I c a l l "buying votes", which means porkbarrel ing funds i n t o your area so a l l of your people w i l l vote f o r you. No, we d idn ' t do t h a t a t a l l . I n f a c t , i t showed you what the people of Cal i fornia r e a l l y wanted when they e lec ted Ron the second t i m e . By then they rea l ized , I think, what he was doing t o some degree.

It's an unfortunate s i t u a t i o n t h a t i n Congress, the United S t a t e s Congress, not a l l of them, but I ' d say a high percentage-- I ' d say 85 percent--are only thinking a t a l l times (and I know many, many,many of them) about ge t t ing re-elected. I do know some very f i n e Senators and very f i n e congressmen who a r e not t h a t way, who a r e statesmen, who want i t done r i g h t no matter what i t means,

. but not a l o t .

Reagan's Att i tude Toward Governorship and Presidency: "This is Fun"

Morris : I know you have t o leave, but I' d l i k e t o ask one l a s t question about how M r . Reagan himself f e l t about being governor. Once you fellows had s a i d , "Okay, w e r e a l l y want you t o run and w e ' l l help you,!' and you got him elected--while he was i n Sacramento d id he ever t a l k about how he f e l t about being governor?

Wrather: Oh, yes. We'd t a l k about i t over dinner--we'd go up maybe and spend an evening and have dinner with Nancy and Ron. Y e s , I 've heard him speak on tha t . Ron--people a r e amazed a t how e a s i l y he f i t t e d i n t o the presidency and how nothing gets him down. I mean, Ron i s not overwhelmed with power, pres t ige , populari ty. It's almost unbelievable..

I don't think I ' m e a s i l y impressed, but he 's a constant source of amazement t o h i s f r iends . It 's a s i f he j u s t walked i n t o the o f f i c e today and s a t down and s t a r t e d doing business, you know, only i t ' s a t the Oval Office, and i t doesn't impress him. H e loves i t .

Morris: H e does?

Wrather: Y e s . H e sa id a t a par ty the o ther night--we were out t o a dinner par ty with them, and he s a i d , " I ' m having a l o t of fun. This is fun. "

Morris : Good!

Wrather: Y e s . H e says, "You know, I don' t l i k e i t when unemployment goes up, and I don't l i k e any of the problems t h a t exist f o r t h e people. But," he says, "I got an opportunity to t r y t o do something about i t , and i t 's a h e l l of a l o t of fun."

Morris: He f e e l s more comfortable being president than he did being governor?

Wrather: I don't know the answer to tha t . I think he does, because the governorship gave him t h a t background. H e ' s more confident because he had e igh t years of s t a t e administrat ion i n the biggest s t a t e i n the United S ta tes , e ighth l a r g e s t country i n the world, you know. I think t h a t gave him confidence, and he 's been pointing toward the presidency, and when he got there--

Morris : I n h i s own mind?

Wrather: Y e s , and boy, I mean singlemindedly. H e ' s worked hard f o r i t .

Wrather :

Morris :

Wrather :

Morris :

Wrather :

Morris :

Wrather :

Morris :

H e and Nancy have f i t t e d i n beau t i fu l ly , I think. Poor Nancy has taken guff , you know, from the media and everything, and she 's done i t , l i k e a lady. It bothers her. I t ' d bother any human being t o have unkind, untrue things s a i d about you nat ional ly . But the two of them epitomize t o me--you can te l l I ' m a g rea t fan of both of theirs--they epitomize people of a r e a l high type.

You know them i n a d i f f e r e n t way than anybody else we've talked t o f o r the projec t . It is r e a l l y he lp fu l t o have somebody who was a neighbor and f r i end before he became involved i n p o l i t i c s .

Of course the Darts knew them s o c i a l l y and friendshipwise very w e l l . I don't think Ed Mills necessar i ly d id , o r some of those o ther people who were more p o l i t i c a l a s soc ia tes ; but B i l l French Smith has been h i s a t torney a l l these years and personal f r iend.

H i s personal a t torney, a s w e l l a s , now, U.S. Attorney General?

Y e s , t h a t ' s r i g h t . And B i l l Wilson was a c lose f r i end . ' I guess B i l l Wilson is Ron's c l o s e s t personal f r i end , j u s t a s man and man. They loved t o r i d e together , and they do a l o t of those things t h a t buddies do; yoy know, they're buddies.

Y e s . People i n public o f f i c e seem t o need somebody they can go off and r i d e horseback o r play golf with o r soinething l i k e t h a t .

Y e s , he ' s got t h a t wi th B i l l Clark now up there. You know, B i l l and he love t o r i d e together , and they're very good f r i ends .

There were a l o t of younger men t h a t came i n i n Sacramento and who s t i l l a r e p r e t t y .young,, i n t h e i r f o r t i e s , who a r e now i n Washington. Was t h a t p a r t of your idea , too?

Wrather: Some of them s o r t of came through our group, with recommendations and s o fo r th .

Morris: Were you looking f o r younger men t o br ing i n t o government se rv ice?

Wrather: Y e s , w e were, but we were p a r t i c u l a r l y looking f o r capable--

Morris: Capable r a t h e r than young?

Wrather: Who would come i n . Not everybody w i l l come i n .

Morris: I won't keep you any longer. You've r e a l l y given me a n ice i n s i g h t i n t o your own a t t i t u d e s about the world, a s w e l l a s your fr iend- sh ip with M r . Reagan.

Wrather: I appreciate the opportunity to . Sometimes it's n ice to be able to talk a l i t t l e b i t and then be able to hear what you say.

Morris: A l l r ight , you'l l get a chance to look a t a transcript.

Transcriber: Sam Middlebrooks F i m l Typist: Joan Cardellino

TAPE GUIDE--Jack Wrather

Date of Tnterdew: 30 September 1982 tape 1, side A tape 1, side B

2 0 BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH

0 f JACK WRATHER

O c t o b e r , 1 9 8 2

J a c k W r a t h e r was b o r n May 24, 1918, a t A m a r i l l o , T e x a s . He

a t t e n d e d grammar s c h o o l i n L o n g Beach, C a l i f o r n i a , m o v i n g t o

Da l ' l as , Texas i n 1 9 3 0 , a n d t o T y l e r , Texas s o o n t h e r e a f t e r . He

l i v e d i n T y l e r f r o m 1 9 3 1 t o 1941-, a t t e n d i n g h i g h s c h o o l t h e r e .

I n 1939 M r . W r a t h e r r e c e i v e d a B.A. d e g r e e f r o m t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f

Texas, w i t h h o n o r s . He was a member o f P h i E t a S igma, h o n o r a r y

f r e s h m a n f r a t e r n i t y , a n d o f t h e h o n o r a r y g o v e r n m e n t f r a t e r n i t y

P i Sigma A l p h a .

I n 1940,- a f t e r a y e a r o f " r o u g h n e c k i n g " o n d r i l l i n g r i g s

- i n t h e Texas o i l f i e l d s , a s a p i p e l i n e w a l k e r a n d f i n a l l y as a

" w i l d - c a t t e r " , M r . W r a t h e r s u p e r v i s e d t h e c o n s t r u c t i o n o f a

r e f i n e r y f o r O v e r t o n R e f i n i n g Company i n E v a n s v i l l e , I n d i a n a .

C o n s t r u c t i o n was c o m p l e t e d i n 1940 , and i n t h e same y e a r J a c k -

W r a t h e r a c c e p t e d t h e p r e s i d e n c y o f t h e f a m i l y o i l company b e c a u s e

o f t h e i l l n e s s o f h i s f a t h e r .

I n 1 9 4 2 M r . W r a t h e r j o i n e d t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s M a r i n e C o r p s

and w e n t t h r o u g h o f f i c e r t r a i n i n g a t Q u a n t i c o , V i r g i n i a . He was

s u b s e q u e n t l y s t a t i o n e d i n San D i e g o , C a l i f o r n i a , f r o m November

1 9 4 2 u n t i l 1944. H i s e x e c u t i v e e x p e r i e n c e i n t h e M a r i n e C o r p s

b e g a n as T r a i n i n g O f f i c e r f o r A v i a t i o n T r a i n i n g S q u a d r o n 131 ,

a f t e r w h i c h h e a d v a n c e d t o b e c o m i n g E x e c u t i v e O f f i c e r , a n d t h e n

Commanding O f f i c e r o f h i s s q u a d r o n . M r . W r a t h e r w e n t o v e r s e a s

i n 1944, a s Commanding O f f i c e r o f H e a d q u a r t e r s S q u a d r o n o f MAG-24

1 s t M a r i n e A i r W ing . H i s c o m b a t s e r v i c e i n c l u d e d B o u g a i n v i l l e ,

So lomon I s l a n d s ; L u z o n , P h i l i p p i n e I s l a n d s ; a n d M i n d a n a o ,

P h i l i p p i n e I s l a n d s . He was a w a r d e d t h r e e c o m b a t s t a r s , a n d

p a r t i c i p a t e d . i n l a n d i n g s a t L i ngayen , Luzon , and Parang , !4 indanao.

R e t u r n i n g f r o m o v e r s e a s i n O c t o b e r 1945, he was r e l e a s e d f rom a c t i v e

d u t y i n December w i t h t h e r a n k o f C a p t a i n . He r e t i r e d f r o m t h e M a r i n e

Corps w i t h t h e r a n k o f M a j o r i n 1950.

Resuming h i s b u s i n e s s c a r e e r a f t e r t h e war , Mr. W r a t h e r has s i n c e

been a c t i v e i n a number o f b u s i n e s s e n t e r p r i s e s . U n t i l 1957, he was

P r e s i d e n t o f W r a t h e r P e t r o l e u m C o r p o r a t i o n , a company w i t h h e a d q u a r t e r s

i n Dal l a s , p r o d u c i n g a n d ' t r a n s p o r t i n g p e t r o l e u m i n Texas. He i s

Managing D i r e c t o r and owner o f " J . D. W r a t h e r , J r . , S p e c i a l Accoun t " .

T h i s i s an i n d e p e n d e n t o i l o p e r a t i o n f o r t h e p u r p o s e o f d r i l l i n g f o r

and p r o d u c i n g o i l , and f o r p u r c h a s e and i n v e s t m e n t i n m i n e r a l s .

S i n c e 1946, t h e J . D. Wra the r , J r . , S p e c i a l A c c o u n t , has d r i l l e d

and has p a r t i c i p a t e d i n t h e d r i l l i n g o f more t h a n 500 e x p l o r a t o r y

and p r o d u c i n g o i l and gas w e l l s .

D i v e r s i f i c a t i o n o f M r . W r a t h e r ' s b u s i n e s s i n t e r e s t s began i n

1946, when he became P r e s i d e n t o f Jack W r a t h e r P i c t u r e s , I n c . ,

p r o d u c e r s of m o t i o n p i c t u r e s , w i t h h e a d q u a r t e r s i n B e v e r l y H i l l s ,

C a l i f o r n i a . W r a t h e r T e l e v i s i o n P r o d u c t i o n s , I n c . , o f w h i c h he was

P r e s i d e n t , was o r g a n i z e d . f o r t e l e v i s i o n f i l m a c t i v i t y and t h e conipany

s u b s e q u e n t l y p r o d u c e d a t e l e v i s i o n s e r i e s s p o n s o r e d b y P r o c t o r & Gamble.

Between 1946 and 1955, M r . Wra the r p r o d u c e d seven f e a t u r e m o t i o n

p i c t u r e s f o r A l l i e d A r t i s t s , E a g l e L i o n , Warner B ros . , and U n i t e d

A r t i s t s r e l e a s e . S i n c e t h e n he has p r o d u c e d THE MAGIC OF LASSIE

i n 1978; and i n a s s o c i a t i o n w i t h L o r d Grade and I T C o f Eng land ,

p roduced i n 1980 THE LEGEND OF THE LONE RANGER.

I n 1952, ;Ir. N r a t h e r pu rchased KOTV, a CBS-TV a f f i l i a t e i n

T u l s a , Oklahoma, and i n t h e n e x t few y e a r s added t o h i s t e l e v i s i o n

i n t e r e s t s by t h e p u r c h a s e o f KFMB-TV and At4, San D i e g o , C a l i f o r n i a , /

Page 3

and K E R O - T V i n B a k e r s f i ' e l d , C a l i f o r n i a . I n 1959 , Mr. Wra the r

merged h i s t e l e v i s i o n i n t e r e s t s i n t o T r a n s c o n t i n e n t T e l e v i s i o n

C o r p o r a t i o n , a company owning , i n a d d i t i o n t o Mr. W r a t h e r ' s \

p r o p e r t i e s , TV a n d r a d i o s t a t i o n s i n B u f f a l o , New York; Kansas

C i t y , M i s s o u r i ; a n d S c r a n t o n , P e n n s y l v a n i a , i n which c o r p o r a t i o n

h e became a m a j o r s t o c k h o l d e r and a member of t h e E x e c u t i v e

Commit tee . T h i s company was s o l d i n 1964 t o T a f t B r o a d c a s t i n g

p l u s o t h e r s . I n 1 9 5 4 , Mr. Wra the r p u r c h a s e d t h e t e l e v i s i o n and

r a d i o p r o p e r t y , "The Lone Ranger" . I n 1955 , he c o n s t r u c t e d

t h e D i sney land H o t e l a t D i s n e y l a n d P a r k , which i s one o f t h e

l e a d i n g h o t e l s i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s , p r e s e n t l y w i t h 1 , 4 0 0

rooms and t h e l a r g e s t h o t e l c o n v e n t i o n f a c i l i t i e s on t h e

w e s t c o a s t . I n 1956 Mr. U r a t h e r a c q u i r e d t h e " L a s s i e "

t e l e v i s i o n show, and " S e r g e a n t P r e s t o n o f t h e Yukon", a n o t h e r

t e l e v i s i o n p r o p e r t y , i n 1957 . The " L a s s i e " t e l e v i s i o n show

was produced a s a J a c k W r a t h e r P r o d u c t i o n and was on t h e CBS Network

u n d e r s p o n s o r s h i p o f Campbell Soup f o r 20 y e a r s . . Also i n . I 9 5 7

h e pu rchased t h e w o r l d ' s 1 a r g e s t commercial r a d i o s t a t i o n ,

\+!NEW, New York C i t y , and Muzak C o r p o r a t i o n . I n 1958 , w i t h

A s s o c i a t e d T e l e v i s i o n L t d . , London, Eng land , Mr. Wra the r founded

I n d e p e n d e n t T e l e v i s i o n C o r p o r a t i o n , which p u r c h a s e d T e l e v i s i o n

Programs o f A m e r i c a . ITC became one o f t h e l e a d i n g companies

i n t h e p r o d u c t i o n and d i s t r i b u t i o n o f t e l e v i s i o n s e r i e s .

I n J u n e , 1 9 6 1 , Gl ra ther C o r p o r a t i o n became pub1 i c l y owned.

T h i s company now c o n s i s t s o f t h e D i s n e y l a n d H o t e l ; The Queen Mary

complex ; t h e Hughes F l y i n g B o a t ; " L a s s i e " ; "The Lone ~ a ~ ~ ~ ~ u ;

" S e r g e a n t P r e s t o n o f t h e Yukon'; a n d , l o c a t e d i n D a l l a s , T e x a s ,

% . Page 4 2 3

W r a t h e r Deve lopment , i t s o i l and gas d i v i s i o n ; and was a m a j o r

owner i n Te l e P r o n ~ p T e r c o r p o r a t i o n . I n 1981 W r a t h e r C o r p o r a t i o n

announced t h e s a l e o f i t s a p p r o x i m a t e 10% s t o c k i n t e r e s t i n t h e

Te lePrompTer C o r p o r a t i o n t o Wes t i nghouse f o r a p p r o x i m a t e l y

$ 6 2 m i l l i o n . . D u r i n g 1 9 8 0 W r a t h e r C o r p o r a t i o n a c q u i r e d t h e l e a s e

on t h e Queen Mary i n Long Beach. T h i s l e a s e i n c l u d e s 240 a c r e s

o f w a t e r a r e a and 45 a c r e s o f a f f i l i a t e d l a n d . W r a t h e r C o r p o r a t i o n

was a l s o i n s t r u m e n t a l i n t h e a c , q u i s i t i o n o f t h e Hughes F l y i n g

Boa t , t h e " S p r u c e Goose" , f r o m Summa C o r p o r a t i o n i n c o n j u n c t i o n

w i t h t h e Aero C l ub o f S o u t h e r n Ca l i f o r n i a , a n o n - p r o f i t o r g a n i z a -

t i o n , and w i l l i n s t a l l . t h e HFB a t t h e Queen Mary s i t e and o p e r a t e

f o r t h e Aero C l u b . J a c k W r a t h e r i s P r e s i d e n t and Chai rman o f t h e

Boa rd o f W r a t h e r C o r p o r a t i o n .

O u t s i d e o f t h e c o r p o r a t e i n t e r e s t s , M r . W r a t h e r p e r s o n a l l y

i s owner o f L ' H o r i z o n H o t e l i n Pa lm S p r i n g s ; l a r g e o i l and gas

i n t e r e s t s i n Texas , Ok lahoma and L o u i s i a n a ; and r e a l e s t a t e ,

r a n c h i n g and a g r i c u l t u r a l h o l d i n g s i n b o t h A u s t r a l i a and t h e

U n i t e d S t a t e s ; and was a f o r m e r owner o f t h e famed B a l b o a Bay

C l u b i n Newpo r t Beach .

M r . W r a t h e r was a f o u n d e r o f KCET, Channel 28, Los Ange les ,

an e d u c a t i o n a l t e l e v i s i o n s t a t i o n , and s e r v e d f o r s e v e r a l y e a r s

f rom i t s i n c e p t i o n o n t h e E x e c u t i v e Commi t tee and on t h e Boa rd o f

D i r e c t o r s .

He i s a member o f t h e M a r i n e Corps R e s e r v e O f f i c e r s C l u b i n

Wash ing ton , D . C . ; t h e D a l l a s P e t r o l e u m C l u b and t h e D a l l a s A t h l e t i c

C l u b i n D a l l a s , Texas ; as we1 1 as t h e E l d o r a d o C o u n t r y C lub , Palni

D e s e r t , C a l i f o r n i a ; M a r i n a C i t y C lub , M a r i n a d e l Rey, C a l i f o r n i a ;

Page 5 24

t h e Ba lboa Bay C l u b i n N e w p o r t Beach, C a l i f o r n i a ; t h e C a t Cay

C lub , Bahamas; The S k e e t e r s , New Y o r k C i ty ; and i n E n g l a n d t h e

M a r k ' s C lub , London ; B u c k ' s C l u b , London; and t h e W h i t e E l e p h a n t

C lub , London.

He i s a member o f t h e Deve lopmen t B o a r d o f t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f

Texas, and t h e . . E x e c u t i v e Commi t t ee o f t h e Chance l l o r ' s C o u n c i l o f

t h e ~ n i v e r d i t y o f Texas . He was a d i r e c t o r o f t h e H o l l y w o o d

Museum, and i s on t h e B o a r d o f t h e A m e r i c a n F o u n d a t i o n o f R e l i g i o n

and P s y c h i a t r y . M r . W r a t h e r i s a member o f t h e B o a r d o f C o u n c i l o r s

f o r P e r f o r m i n g A r t s o f t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f S o u t h e r n C a l i f o r n i a , and

o f t h e A d v i s o r y C o u n c i l o f t h e A r i z o n a H e a r t I n s t i t u t e i n P h o e n i x .

He i s a s p o n s o r o f t h e Los A n g e l e s Orphanage G u i l d , and a F o u n d e r .

Member o f t h e P e r f o r m i n g A r t s C o u n c i l o f t h e M u s i c C e n t e r . He i s

a member o f t h e I n d e p e n d e n t P e t r o l e u m A s s o c i a t i o n o f A m e r i c a ;

t h e C a l i f o r n i a H o t e l A s s o c i a t i o n ; t h e D i r e c t o r s Gu i 1 d o f Amer i ca ;

and t h e M o t i o n P i c t u r e Academy o f A r t s a n d S c i e n c e s .

From 1965 t o 1981 M r . W r a t h q r was a member o f t h e B o a r d o f

D i r e c t o r s o f T e l eProm'pTer C o r p o r a t i o n . T e l e P r o m p T e r i s t h e

l a r g e s t company i n t h e c a b l e t e l e v i s i o n and p a y t e l e v i s i o n i n d u s t r y .

I n 1970 he was a p p o i n t e d by t h e P r e s i d e n t o f t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s

t o t h e N a t i o n a l P e t r o l e u m C o u n c i l , an a d v i s o r y c o m m i t t e e u n d e r

t h e Depa r tmen t o f t h e I n t e r i o r . I n 1970 t h e P r e s i d e n t a l s o

a p p o i n t e d M r . W r a t h e r t o t h e B o a r d o f D i r e c t o r s o f t h e C o r p o r a t i o n

f o r Pub1 i c B r o a d c a s t i n g . From November, 1971 , t o J a n u a r y , 1982,

M r . W r a t h e r was a D i r e c t o r o f C o n t i n e n t a l A i r l i n e s .

R e c e n t l y , i n Sep tember , 1982, M r . W r a t h e r was e l e c t e d t o t h e

Page 6

Boa rd . o f T r u s t e e s o f The H e r i t a g e F o u n d a t i o n and i n O c t o b e r , 1982,

he a c c e p t e d an a p p o i n t m e n t t o t h e Boa rd o f T r u s t e e s o f The Hoove r

I n s t i t u t i o n on War, R e v o l u t i o n and Peace.

Jack W r a t h s r i s m a r r i e d t o t h e f o r m e r B o n i t a G r a n v i l l e and

has t h r e e c h i l d r e n ; o n e - b o y and two g i r l s . He l i v e s i n Holmby

H i l l s , Los Ange les , C a l i f o r n i a , , and has a home i n London, Englan'd, . .

w i t h ' b u s i ne-ss h e a d q u a r t e r s i n B e v e r l y H i 11 s and Da l 1 as, Texas .

INDEX -- Jack Wrather

mmTheirir, 1 ki tchen cabinet , 3-6, 11-13

Bloomingdale, Alfred and Betty, 8 Meese, Edwin, 111, 13 Brown, Edmund G., Sr. ( P a t ) , 4 Mil ls , Edward, 7, 17 business and government, 15 motion p i c tu re industry, 1-2

cabinet , p r e s i d e n t i a l ( ~ o n a l d ~ e a g a n ) , 11-12

Carter , James Ea r l , 9 Clark, William P., 17 Congress, U.S., 1 5 Cummings, Theodore, 3

Dart, J u s t i n , 3-6, 17 Democratic par ty , Democrats, 3

e l ec t ions , 1962, 5 e l e c t i o n s , 1964, 2-5 e l ec t ions , 1966, 4-6 e l e c t i o n s , 1970, 15 e l e c t i o n s , 1980, 9, 11

See a l s o Republican na t iona l -- convent ion

Energy, U.S. Department o f , 14

Fluor, S i , 5-6 Ford, Gerald, 9-11

Nixon, Richard e l e c t i o n campaigns, 4-5, 8-9

Reagan, Nancy, 1-2, 8 , 16, 17 Reagan, Ronald

e l e c t i o n campaigns, 3-6, 8-11 f r i endsh ips , 1-6, 16-17 and General E l e c t r i c Co., 7 a s governor, 6 , 16 a s pres ident , 11-17 a s p r e s i d e n t i a l candidate , 8-11

Republican na t iona l convention .1968, 8 1972, 8 1976, 9-10

Republican par ty , Republicans, 3- 4, 6, 7

Sa lva to r i , Henry, 3 , 6 Screen Actors Guild, 3 Smith, William French, 3 , 6-7, 17 Stans, Maurice, 5

General E l e c t r i c Co., 7 t r a n s i t i o n , 1966-1967, 6, 17 Goldwater, Barry, Sr., 2-5 t r a n s i t i o n , 1980-1981, 11-14 Goldwater, Peggy, (Mrs. Barry, Tu t t l e , Holmes, 3-7

S r 2 governor, o f f i ce of ( ~ o n a l d

Reagan), 6 , 17 Watergate, 9-10 Granvil le , Bonita (Mrs. Jack Wilson, William, 3-4, 17

Wrather ) , 1-2 Wrather, Bonita Granvil l e , 1-2 Wyman, Jane, 1

Hume, Jaquel in , 3

James, Pendleton, 12

Regional Oral History Office The Bancroft Library

University of California Berkeley, California

Government History Documentation project Ronald Reagan Gubernatorial Era

Tir so de 1 Junco

CALIFORNIA REPUBLICAN PARTY LEADERSHIP AND SUCCESS 1966-1 982

An Interview Conducted by Gabrielle Morris

1982

Copyright @ 1984 by the Regents of the University of California

TABLE OF CONTENTS -- T i r s o d e l Junco< .. .

Republican V i c t o r i e s i n 1982 1

Building Pa r ty Unity, 1965 5 .

Opening t h e Door t o t h e Hispanic Community 7

Cal Plan and Ronald Reagan's P o l i t i c a l S t y l e 11

P r e s i d e n t i a l Campaigns 12

Reagan a s Pres ident ; Thoughts on South America and Other World Problems 17

TAPE GUIDE 21

INDEX 2 2

Republican Vie to r i es , 1982

[Date of Interview: 30 November 1982lilil

[Preliminary conversat ion about D r . d e l Junco's work a s chairman of t h e Ca l i fo rn i a Republican S t a t e Cent ra l Committee and t h e r ecen t 1982 campaigns, i n which Republicans w e r e notably succes s fu l . ]

d e l Junco: This year f o r t he f i r s t t ime eve r , we s e n t a mail ing t o a l l decl ine- t o - s t a t e vo te r s .

I n September, I saw i t a s a c l o s e campaign, and we went o u t and r e g i s t e r e d a hundred thousand new Republican v o t e r s before t h e deadl ine. And i n t h e l a s t t h r e e days of t he campaign, we had s i x hundred thousand phone c a l l s made a l l over t h e s t a t e .

Morris : Were t h e c a l l s made by vo lun tee r s o r paid s t a f f ?

d e l Junco: About one t h i r d were pa id c a l l e r s . The r e g i s t r a t i o n workers were pa id a d o l l a r and a ha l f f o r each one.

These a r e t h e th ings the p a r t y can do t h a t make a r e a l d i f f e r ence i n a c lo se campaign.

Morris : That 's impressive campaign work by t h e pa r ty . With t h a t kind of support , why is i t t h a t l e g i s l a t o r s f requent ly express concerns about t h e e f f ec t iveness of t h e p a r t i e s ?

d e l Junco: You'know, I have l i v e d i n t e n s e l y t h e l i f e of t h e Republican pa r ty f o r s i x t e e n yea r s , a s an o f f i c e r a t d i f f e r e n t l e v e l s , and I can s e e where the l e g i s l a t o r s might have concerns. I f you have a p o l i t i c a l pa r ty t h a t is a pa r ty who is going t o d i c t a t e t o the l e g i s l a t o r a philosophy, is going t o d i c t a t e t o them t h e i r l e g i s l a t i v e agenda, indeed, we have problems. But i f the p a r t y ' s

##This symhol i n d i c a t e s t h e s t a r t of a new tape o r tape segment. See Tape Guide, p . 21.

d e l Junco: func t ion is t o e l e c t Republicans t o o f f i c e , t o t r y t o go and i d e n t i f y good candidates t o run f o r o f f i c e , n o t neces sa r i l y t o run a g a i n s t our own e l ec t ed o f f i c i a l s , but t o run a g a i n s t Democrats, and t h e p o l i t i c a l p a r t y does. not become involved i n defea t ing quote- unquote "incumbent Republicans," I t h i n k t h a t t h e r e is a p l ace f o r t h e Republican pa r ty .

I t h i n k i t h a s been demonstrated i n t h i s l a s t e l e c t i o n , where w e r a i s e d tremendous amount of funds f o r s ta tewide o f f i c e s . We gave a hundred thousand d o l l a r s t o t h e governor 's race , and we gave l i k e s i x t y thousand f o r l i e u t e n a n t governor, a t t o rney genera l , a l l t h e s ta tewide races . But equal ly the same we gave b e t t e r than a m i l l i o n p l u s d o l l a r s t o t h e s t a t e l e g i s l a t o r s vis-2-vis assemblymen and sena to r s , and then we were a b l e t o ob ta in a l s o con t r ibu t ions f o r our congressional r aces , i n d i r e c t l y wi th in the n a t i o n a l pa r ty .

Indeed, i f t h e r e i s an organiza t ion t h a t i s going t o be w i l l i n g t o go out t h e r e and g ive t h a t kind of support t o t h e candidates-- t h e Republican p a r t y went ou t and q u a l i f i e d a referendum a t a c o s t of a mi l l i on p o i n t two--

Morris : This is t h e ones on reapportionment? [Propos i t ions 10, 11, and' 1 2 on the primary b a l l o t , June 1982.1

d e l Junco: Yeas. We a l s o went out and q u a l i f i e d an i n i t i a t i v e . It eventua l ly l o s t by a small margin. Ce r t a in ly those a r e g r e a t cont r ibu t ions of t h e pa r ty t o t h e system vis-8-vis the Republican ideology, t he Republican philosophy. On t h e o ther hand, I remember the days t h a t t h e conservat ives and t h e l i b e r a l s were f i g h t i n g , where t h e pa r ty was p u t t i n g out candidates t o de fea t Republican incumbents, j u s t because of philosophy, and the re was a tremendous amount of ph i losophica l d i scuss ion . We cannot f o r g e t t h e days of t h e g r e a t c o n f l i c t between the Rockefel ler and t h e Goldwater people, many of those campaigns; indeed, t h a t is no t hea l thy .

I f we look a t our counterpar t , t he Democrat pa r ty , c e r t a i n l y they a r e a major i ty pa r ty . They have i n t h e i r ranks numberwise a l o t more than we do. The only way t h a t we do compete w i th them i s because I think--and I am being obviously q u i t e candid with you-- is because I th ink we a r e a l i t t l e b i t b e t t e r organized and we a r e a b l e t o g ive t h a t a d d i t i o n a l he lp t o our candidates . We don ' t have t h e a b i l i t y t h a t W i l l i e Brown has and t h a t Senator [David] Rober t i has t o go out and through t h e lobbying mechanism t o r a i s e m i l l i o n s and mi l l i ons and mi l l i ons of d o l l a r s . I n s p i t e of what we r a i s e d , a n d ' i f you add t o t h a t what was r a i s e d by t h e leader- sh ip of our assemblyman, Bob Naylor, o r t h e sena to r , B i l l Campbell, and we add a l l w e d id , they spent more money than we did.*

*Naylor and Campbell were minori ty l e a d e r s i n t h e i r r e spec t ive houses.

d e l Junco: W i l l i e Brown, because of h i s powerful p o s i t i o n i n t h e assembly, h a s access t o a l l t h e s e lobby i s t s , and he can r a i s e tremendous amount of money. Equally t he same wi th Robert i . We had nobody-- and they a l s o had t h e governorship, so you can imagine what i t would have been i f we d id not come t o t h e r e scue and he lp our candidates .

Next year , w i th t h e p o s i t i o n s t h a t we have p lus t h e p re s iden t p l u s t h e governorship and the U.S. Senator , those p o s i t i o n s w i l l he lp us t o r a i s e money f o r our candidates . I personal ly be l i eve t h a t it's hea l thy t o have t h e people involved, and I t h i n k t h a t it is very, ve ry important t o g ive both p o l i t i c a l p a r t i e s a l o t more t o say.

Morris : A l o t more t o say?

d e l Junco: I n t h e p o l i t i c a l process .

Morris : I n terms of what happens i n t h e l e g i s l a t u r e ?

d e l Junco: No, i n terms of what happens wi th t h e candidates . I know t h a t many t i m e s a l s o t h e candidates , they say t h a t they want t o be responsive, quote-unquote, t o t h e i r cons t i t uen t s , t o t h e i r cons t i t - uency, but I ' m not r e a l l y su re t h a t ' s t r u e , because how respons ib le i s one ind iv idua l t o h i s const i tuency? Here you f i n d t h a t sometimes t h e c o n s t i t u e n c i e s a r e extremely conservat ive and y e t you have a very l i b e r a l l e g i s l a t o r o r v i c e versa. And I th ink t h a t t h e r e ' s nothing wrong f o r l e g i s l a t o r s t o be somewhat responsive t o t h e i r pa r ty , t o work toge ther and t o t r y t o g e t t h e major i ty t h a t we need i n t h e l e g i s l a t i v e body. Because a f t e r a l l , t h a t ' s what t h e b a l l game is a l l about. The b a l l game is f o r a p o l i t i c a l pa r ty t o have a major i ty i n t h e l e g i s l a t i v e bodies , because once you have t h e major i ty t he re , you appoint your committees, you have your major i ty i n your committees, and then your l e g i s l a t i v e agenda can be began t o be implemented.

Morris : And i n t h a t case , t h e l e g i s l a t i v e agenda would be c l o s e r t o what t h e p a r t y p la t form was?

d e l Junco: That 's r i g h t . You know, perhaps I ' m t a l k i n g t h i s way because i n t h e Republican p a r t y today i n 1982 we a r e s o much more uni f ied . We don't have a s many f a c t i o n s a s t h e Democratic pa r ty has had. The Democratic p a r t y has had t h e Car te r f a c t i o n , t h e Kennedy f a c t i o n , t h e Mondale f a c t i o n , whereas h e r e we had e i g h t candidates running f o r p re s iden t , s t i l l we maintain ou r se lves p r e t t y much on t h e same wavelength, a l l of us . So f o r u s i t ' s much e a s i e r probably than f o r them t o remain uni ted .

Morris :

d e l Junco :

Morris :

d e l Junco :

Morris:

d e l Junco :

Morris :

d e l Junco:

That wasn't always the case. When you were i n t h e Ca l i fo rn i a Republican Assembly, t h a t was seen a s a very conserva t ive group, and i t caused some f r i c t i o n w i t h i n t h e s t a t e Republican par ty .

Do you remember the IMax] Rafferty-IDomas] Kuchel campaign?

Yes, f o r t h e Senate iln 1962. Were you a c t i v e i n t h a t ?

Y e s , I was involved i n t h e p a r t y a t t h a t time. That ' s why I say t h a t w e have outgrown a l l t hose th ings , and we have f i n a l l y become uni ted , a l though we have some elements t h a t a r e much more l i b e r a l than o t h e r s i n our pa r ty . But i t was very i n t e r e s t i n g t o me on e l e c t i o n n i g h t t o s e e some of t h e most l i b e r a l members of our pa r ty and some of t h e most conserva t ive members of our par ty , everybody r e j o i c i n g because we had won. I t h i n k what i t is a l l about is t h e Republican pa r ty has had t o l e a r n t h e hard way t h a t i f you're going t o b e the minori ty par ty , you cannot a f f o r d t h e s e d i v i s i o n s and s o on, and t h a t a f t e r t h e primary, you've go t t o come toge the r l i k e Mike Curb d id wi th IGeorge] Deukmej ian. The n igh t of t h e primary e l e c t i o n w e had one e l e c t i o n cen te r , t he Century-Plaza Hotel, a s t h e p l ace of t h e par ty . And we brought a s many of our major candida tes running i n t h e primary a s we could t o t h e h o t e l t h a t n ight .

A l l of them?

A l l of t h e s ta tewide major candidates were the re , and t h e pa r ty aga in pa id f o r everything and r an t h e whole opera t ion , which was an expensive opera t ion , bu t brought t h e candida tes toge ther . A t one o 'c lock i n t h e morning, t h e time t h a t Deukmejian was winning t h e primary, w e had Mike Curb r i g h t t he re , endorsing Deukmejian. Not only t h a t , nex t morning a t e leven o 'c lock I had a u n i t y brunch wi th a l l t h e s e n a t o r i a l candidates and a l l the s ta tewide candidates , t o b r ing them toge ther r i g h t t he re and then. I n o ther words, w i th in twelve hours--and t h e s e a r e th ings t h a t we have learned , t h a t we a r e doing.

Do some of t he candidates come kicking and screaming?

It 's j u s t a ques t ion of l eade r sh ip and e s t a b l i s h i n g the proper environment and the proper condit ions. I mean, t h e s i t u a t i o n was o rches t r a t ed i n such a way t h a t w e made i t e a s i e r f o r the l o s e r s t o p a r t i c i p a t e . We d id not make the event agonizing and pa in fu l f o r t h e l o s e r s t o come down and j o i n with t h e v fc to r s . What I ' m r e a l l y t r y i n g t o t e l l you i s how we do these th ings i n t h e Republican pa r ty .

d e l Junco: We had twelve people, men and women, running f o r t he U.S. Senate , some extreme conserva t ives versus some ve ry l i b e r a l Republicans. IPete] McCloskey is no middle-of-the-roader, and y e t we were a b l e t o overcome t h i s whole thing. We had e i g h t men running f o r t he United S t a t e s presidency i n 1980, and, aga in , we were a b l e t o recover from i t .

Building P a r t y Unity, 1965

Morris: Was t h i s kind of bring-people-together t h ing poss ib l e i n 1966 when M r . Reagan was running aga ins t George Chris topher f o r t h e nomination f o r governor?

d e l Junco: A s you w i l l probably rememher, r i g h t a f t e r t h a t e l e c t i o n , a s I understand--and I wasn ' t t h a t involved' with. t h e leadersh ip of the pa r ty at t h a t ' t i m e (although I w a s involved with. t h e pa r ty , bu t no t a t t h a t level)-- the T u t t l e s and t h e S a l v a t o r f s and t h e Reagan people made i t a po in t w i th in for ty-e ight hours t o meet with t h e l eade r sh ip of t h e Chris topher people, t h e Dar ts and t h e F i res tones . They came. toge ther and they put toge ther a tremendous un i t ed f r o n t . Where t h a t was no t poss ib l e was two yea r s prev ious ly i n t h e Goldwat er.-Rockef e l l e r - - .

Morris : I n 1964, i t w a s n o t - poss ib le?

d e l Junco: Not poss ib le . Remember, we went a l l through t h a t genera l e l e c t i o n i n t o t h e e l e c t i o n day and s t i l l the re was--you remember, INelson] Rockefel ler walked out of t h e convention i n San Francisco. You know, one th ing is t o g ive l i p s e r v i c e t o un i ty , and another t h ing is t o show a genuine s i n c e r e e f f o r t t o u n i t e and t o endorse your primary opponent.

I t h i n k t h a t Ronald Reagan probably began f o r us t h a t s p i r i t of un i ty and s o on. Ronald Reagan a l s o , I th ink , has had a number of concepts [which] have been very h e l p f u l t o our pa r ty , and one is no t becoming involved i n t h e primary races .

Morris : For t h e pa r ty not t o be i n t h e primary races?

d e l Junco: Tha t ' s r i g h t . And he himself . You know, he t r a d i t i o n a l l y has not become involved i n t h e primary r aces , endorsing candidates and so on. I t h i n k t h a t ' s been a help. I n f a c t , i n t he l a s t s i x t e e n y e a r s I can only r e c a l l t h e i nc iden t s of t h e Goldwater and Rockefel ler campaign. The o the r major i nc iden t was i n t h e case of Raffer ty and Kuchel, which we were not a b l e t o recover--a l o t of t h e so-cal led l i b e r a l Republicans never s a w f i t t o come around, and t h e end r e s u l t was t h a t t hey e l ec t ed [Alan] Cranston and i n 1968.

d e l Junco: I n e f f e c t , I t h i n k we have been a b l e t o overcome it--the next confronta t ion we had was when we had t h e IGerald] Ford-Reagan th ing , i n which, you know, bhe chairman of t he pa r ty from C a l i f o r n i a decided t o endorse Ford, Paul Haerle. And i n s p i t e of t h a t , Mike Curb, who was t h e chairman of Ronald Reagan i n C a l i f o r n i a , a f t e r t h e de fea t of Ronald Reagan i n t h e convention, d i d a g rea t e f f o r t on behalf of Pres ident Ford.

I t h i n k what we a r e r e a l l y saying is t h a t we have learned t h a t wheneverwehave not been ab le t o u n i t e , we have had d i f f i c u l t i e s i n t h e genera l e l ec t ion . And, a s I s a i d , I th ink P res iden t Reagan h a s been a tremendous s t a b i l i z i n g f o r c e i n t h i s a r e a of t he p o l i t i c a l par ty .

Morris : Because of himself , h i s own pe r sona l i t y , o r h.is p o l i t i c s ?

d e l Junco: His own personal i ty . You know, h e ' s no t a confronta t ion type of p o l i t i c i a n . He's a very , very decent , decent , decent man. Even lo s ing , h e ' s ve ry generous. I don' t know i f you remember his--

Morris: This i s i n some of h i s p r e s i d e n t i a l t r i e s , his e a r l i e r ones?

d e l Junco: Yes. Remember when h e l o s t i n t h e p r e s i d e n t i a l t r y a g a i n s t Ford. He s t o l e t h e convention when h e came down, i n h i s concession speech t o Pres ident Ford i n Kansas City. I mean, men and women a l i k e , they were j u s t crying. A s t o how genuine he was. I t h i n k t h a t t h i s has helped a l l of us .

I th ink . a l s o t h e th ing t h a t ' s begun t o h e l p us , too , is t h a t we do not a l low a l s o t h e l eade r sh ip of t h e par ty t o become involved i n t h e pr imaries . No longer can t h e chairman of t h e s t a t e par ty o r any of t h e o f f i c e r s endorse any person running f o r e i t h e r s t a t e - wide o r l o c a l r a c e s during t h e primary.

Morris: Then when you g e t i n t o t h e genera l e l e c t i o n , don ' t you have some problems with t h e people who've been i d e n t i f i e d j u s t wi th one candidate? They- a r e not neces sa r i l y t h e people who have been working c lose ly wi th t h e pa r ty?

d e l Junco: Well, l e t me give you an example. I was t h e chairman of t he pa r ty , and we had Deukrnejian and we had Curb running. I d id not endorse e i t h e r one of them. I maintained t h e pa r ty func t ioning . I maintained t h e p a r t y ' s mood. I had a b i g dinner with t h e Pres ident , r a i s e d a m i l l i o n d o l l a r s i n May a f t e r t h e primary, you know. D eukme j i a n won, and I was ca l l ed i n and t h e Deukme j i a n people s a i d , "Okay, Ti rso , we want you t o t a k e c a r e of t he pa r ty func t ions , t h e get-out-the vo te , t h e ma i l e r s and so on," and they ' took c a r e of t h e r a i s i n g of t h e funds and the media. Now i f I had been involved with [ i n t e r r u p t i o n ] ... t h e Curb campaign, I would have never been a b l e t o do t h i s . My c r e d i b i l i t y would have been damaged.

Morris: And you're saying. this is t h e change i n t h e l a s t t e n yea r s?

d e l Junco: Yes. This happened a f t e r t h e '76 e l e c t i o n . I n t h e 1976 e l e c t i o n , a s you we l l know, Paul Haerle, then chairman of t h e Republican p a r t y of t h e s t a t e , endorsed Pres ident Ford. The v i c e chairman endorsed Ronald Reagan. So, you know, it was an i n ~ r e d i b l e s i t u a t i o n a t t h e convention. I w a s a t t h e convention, and you could s e e these two C a l i f o r n i a Republicans wi th a d i f f e r e n t walk ie- ta lk ie and a d i f f e r e n t h a t on.

Morris : Talking - t o t h e d i f f e r e n t de l ega te s?

d e l Junco: Y e s . l laughs] With a d i f f e r e n t h a t from Ca l i fo rn i a . So a f t e r t h a t a bylaw change took p l ace whereabout no o f f i c e r can become involved i n endorsing i n t h e primary e l e c t i o n any candidate .

Morris: Is t h i s f o r t h e Ca l i fo rn i a Republican par ty o r is t h i s na t iona l?

d e l Junco: The Ca l i fo rn i a state party.

Morris. : Who suggested t h a t ?

d e l Junco: W e l l , t h e people d id , I th ink . You know, t h e r e was a l o t of resentment throughout t h i s whole th ing , ill f e e l i n g s and so on. I th ink t h a t everybody f e l t t h a t aga in i f we indeed s i n c e r e l y be l i eve t h a t t h e u n i t y of t h e pa r ty is e s s e n t i a l t o win, t h a t we should do i t .

I ' m t r y i n g t o b r i n g you up t o d a t e of what has t r ansp i r ed and so on, and l i k e I say, t h e s t y l e of Pres ident Reagan has helped us- a l o t .

Opening t h e Door t o t h e Hispanic Community

Morris : Right. How about yourse l f? You're Spanish speaking. Have you made a s p e c i a l e f f o r t , had a s p e c i a l i n t e r e s t , i n t h e Spanish- speaking populat ion i n Ca l i fo rn i a?

d e l Junco: Yes. You know, I got e l e c t e d by twelve hundred de l ega te s i n our organizing convention i n Sacramento, and the re were only s i x Hispanic de lega tes . Now we have a volunteer organiza t ion wi th in t h e Republican pa r ty c a l l e d t h e Hispanic Council. They have b e t t e r than two thousand members. I encouraged them t o come together-- i n f a c t , t h i s January w i l l b e t h e f i r s t yea r i n existence--to put toge ther a Hispanic Council which e l ec t ed t h e i r o f f i c e r s and so on s ta tewide , and they ' r e broken down i n t o assembly-regional c lubs ,

d e l Junco: t r y i n g t o open t h e doors t o t h e Hispanic community. But what we're t r y i n g t o do is t o b r ing them i n s i d e t h e p a r t y and t o be p a r t of t h e whole s t r u c t u r e and not j u s t t o be, you know, s e p a r a t e SpaniSh groups.

Morris: Right, l i k e La Raza.

d e l Junco: Y e s , t h a t ' s r i g h t , and i n a l o t of t he Democratic party--you know t h e Democratic p a r t y have a l l of t h e s e l i t t le--what we're t ry ing t o do i s I would l i k e t o s e e it more in t eg ra t ed a s a whole. Af t e r a l l , t h a t ' s what t he American melt ing pot is a l l about.

Morris : Did you and M r . Reagan ever t a l k about t h e s e kinds of i d e a s when he was governor?

d e l Junco: W e l l , P res ident Reagan has had h i s ideas , and t h e s e a r e not a l l my ideas , i d e a s t h a t he h imsel f , i n many meetings, has expressed t o us . It 's very hard from t h e top t o s e e these th ings f i l t e r down. Many people have t r i e d t o represent him a s being aga ins t m i n o r i t i e s and so on, y e t Ronald Reagan when he took o s f i c e , I th ink t h e r e were two o r t h r e e Hispanic judges i n t h i s s t a t e , and he appointed immediately a number of Hispanic judges throughout t h e e n t i r e s t a t e . He appointed Hispanics t o major cormnissions. I was appointed then, s i x t e e n yea r s ago, t o t h e Board of Medical Examiners and served a s p re s iden t of t h e Board of Medical Examiners i n two terms, which I don ' t t h i n k anybody has s i n c e o r before .

We had Hispanics appointed t o pa ro l e boards, Hispanics appointed t o personnel boards, Hispanics appointed i n genera l ac ros s t h e board. These were appointed, i n my opinion, not t r y i n g t o have s p e c i f i c a l l y minori ty r ep re sen ta t ion , bu t , a s he has always s a i d , f o r t h e purposes of br inging t h e Hispanic community i n t o middle America. Which might appear t o you a s being t h e same th ing , bu t i t ' s not t h e same thing. One th ing i s t o appoint an ind iv idua l t o have a minori ty v o t e i n a given c o m i s s i o n ; another t h ing is t o appoint him s o t h e r e w i l l be access of those people t o t h a t commission.

Morris : So t h a t Spanish-speaking people w i l l f e e l they can go t o t h i s person--?

d e l Junco: O r t o t h e other--not only t o be a b l e t o speak t o them. I would hope t h a t I , a s chairman of t h i s pa r ty , Hispanics and b lacks and Anglos, l i k e some of u s say, can come t o me and t a l k t o me of t he problem, r ega rd l e s s of what t h e i r r a c e is o r what t h e i r background is, i f they have b lue eyes o r not b lue eyes. I s e e myself only perhaps being d i f f e r e n t from the poin t of view t h a t I am very s e n s i t i v e t o t h e needs of m i n o r i t i e s and Hispanics t o be p a r t of t h e system. But I s e e myself a l i t t l e b i t d i f f e r e n t than o ther m i n o r i t i e s , including Hispanics, i n t h a t I do not be l i eve t h a t I d i sc r imina te aga ins t Anglos.

Morris : You don't f e e l t h a t you have been d iscr imina ted aga ins t ?

d e l Junco: No, t h a t I don' t d i scr imina te . A l o t of m i n o r i t i e s engage i n r e v e r s e d iscr imina t ion. I th ink t h a t every ind iv idua l is going t o f a c e d iscr imina t ion , you a s a woman, I a s a man, a s aminor i ty , a s a fore igner . I ' m a fore igner . I came here t h i r t y - t h r e e y e a r s ago, and so I ' m a fo re igne r . I ' l l aways be a fo re igne r , and I ' m very proud of t h a t . You know, I ' m proud t h a t I was a fore igner , and I was proud t h e way I came i n t o t h i s country, and I ' m proud t h e oppor tuni ty was given t o m e , and I ' m proud of having done something with t h a t opportuni ty. And f o r people t o look lupon] me a s a fo re igne r , hey, t h a t ' s what I am, you know. So I don ' t f i n d myself handicapped because of t h a t . But I a l s o feel--

Morris: You s e e i t a s something t o be proud of .

d e l Junco: Y e s . And t h a t ' s what I am, you know, j u s t l i k e you were born i n c e r t a i n condi t ions o r whatever, so you're proud of t h a t . You were born, weren ' t you? And i t was done i n good f a i t h by your f a t h e r and your mother. You know what I am t ry ing t o say? It is t h i s kind of p o s i t i v e f e e l i n g t h a t we have t o br ing forward. I j u s t t h i n k t h a t t h e r e is a l o t of t h a t f e e l i n g i n t h e Republican pa r ty . One th ing I can a s su re you, t h e r e is much l e s s d iscr imina t ion and much l e s s r eve r se d iscr imina t ion wi th in t h e Republican pa r ty , I th ink , than what I s e e i n t h e Democratic par ty .

I mean, we don' t s e e those d i f f i c u l t i e s i n our pa r ty . And t h e meetings and so on, t hese r a c i a l i s s u e s a s they come up a r e not i n t h e same fashion. I was a member, chairman of t he board, of a bank when a b lack man has t o l d me, he s a i d , "You go t a black problem. "

Morris : That t h e bank has a b l ack problem?

d e l Junco: O r t h a t I had a b lack problem. Because I would not quote-unquote "give a l oan t o a black person." Because h e wasn't q u a l i f i e d f o r t h e loan. But i t 's a very slow process. I t ' s a very, very slow process t o understand t h i s and t o be a b l e t o communicate t h e message, you know. I t 's s o d i f f i c u l t t o a r t i c u l a t e t h a t open door philosophy of everybody p a r t i c i p a t i n g .

Morris. : Did you work wi th Paul Haerle i n r e c r u i t i n g some Hispanics f o r Governor Reagan t o appoint i n Sacramento?

d e l Junco: Yes. You know Paul was a t t h a t time--actually he was t h e second appointments s e c r e t a r y t h a t t h e Governor had. The f i r s t one was a very c lose f r i e n d of Paul. What was h i s name?

Morris : Oh, Tom Reed.

d e l Junco: Tom Reed was t h e f i r s t one. Then i t was Paul. And then i t was Ned Hutchinson, who d ied , by the way, soon a f t e r t h a t . And they a l l were very, very i n t e r e s t e d i n appointing-- But, you know, i t ' s tough. It i s very tough t o g e t , a minority--at l e a s t Hispanics t o t op sen io r management jobs.

Morris : Ei the r i n business o r i n t h e p o l i t i c a l f i . e ld?

d e l Junco: Well, i n t h e p o l i t i c a l f i e l d much more d i f f i c u l t . More d i f f i c u l t because those who a r e i n t h e p r i v a t e s e c t o r who have reached s e n i o r management i n corpora te America, o r whatever you want t o c a l l i t , usua l ly t hese people have go t t en t h e r e r ecen t ly , i n t h e l a s t f i v e o r t e n yea r s , and those people a r e not going t o leave t h a t job, where now they ' re making the f i f t y t o s i x t y t o seventy thousand d o l l a r s and they have a l l kinds of f r i n g e b e n e f i t s , t o t ake a l eave of absence and not know what 's going t o happen coming back, you know, i n t h e i r promotions and a l l t h a t s t u f f .

I have been very ins t rumenta l i n t r y i n g t o f i n d people f o r s en io r management f o r t h e P re s iden t , f o r ins tance . It is d i f f i c u l t . I have gone t o vice-presidents of banks, ch ief execut ives of small bus iness , o t h e r people i n top management pos i t i ons , and they say, "Tirso, I ' m j u s t sor ry . I can ' t a f f o r d it. I j u s t go t here . This w i l l a f f e c t my promotions. "

Morris : Right. hat's a r e a l p u l l .

d e l Junco: It 's a r e a l , r e a l p u l l . And then I have t o s t i l l t h i n k t h a t when you look a t it, numerical ly speaking, we don' t have the numbers; although we have t h e numbers i n genera l , twenty m i l l i o n Hispanics, we don't have t h e numbers of people t h a t are w i l l i n g t o say, "Okay, I ' m going t o do it." It 's an expensive propos i t ion . This t h a t I have done has been a very, very expensive propos i t ion f o r me. A s you know, you don' t g e t paid--

Morris : When you t ake two years from a medical p r a c t i c e and concentrat 'e a s you have on being chairman of t h e party--

d e l Junco: Tha t r s r i g h t . It a f f e c t s your income cons iderable . I t ' s d i f f i c u l t t o s ay what motivates one man and motivates another person. The same th ing a s what motivates a woman t o go out t h e r e and some women t o work very hard and some o the r ones don ' t . I ' m very happy t h a t I d id what I d id , and I t h i n k I would do i t again, and i f I ' m c a l l e d upon t o s e r v e t h e Pres ident I would do i t , too. But I j u s t t h i n k t h a t we need everybody t o ch ip i n .

Morris : I n o t h e r words, what you 're saying is t h a t no t everybody is going t o want t o take a r o l e i n p o l i t i c s , e i t h e r i n pa r ty l i f e o r i n e l e c t i v e p o l i t i c s .

d e l Junco: I f e e l you f i n d out t h e same th ing elsewhere.

Morris : I t h i n k t h a t ' s a very t r u e s tatement , b u t , a s I: say , i t ' s very f a s c i n a t i n g t o t r y and r econs t ruc t how the pa r ty has grown and how it has changed i n its infuence, what 's gone on i n California--

d e l Junco: I t h i n k i t h a s had a g r e a t in f luence .

Cal P lan and Ronald ~ e a g a n ' s P o l i t i c a l Style##

Morris : Did you he lp with t h e Cal Plan, t h e pa r ty s t a r t e d t o e l e c t more Republicans t o t h e l e g i s l a t u r e ?

d e l Junco: Yes. I r a i s e d money f o r t h a t and f o r o t h e r th ings , and I w i l l raise a l o t more, w i l l do a l o t more things. I th ink a l l of t h e s e th ings can be r e l a t e d t o t h e leadersh ip we've had i n t h i s s t a t e . I t h i n k a l s o , between you and me, t h a t our l e g i s l a t o r s g e t a long much b e t t e r than they d i d before. We don' t have t h e i n t e r f i g h t i n g i n Sacramento t h a t used t o be. It used t o b e very d i f f i c u l t f o r t h e Cal P lan t o synchronize and come up wi th a un i t ed e f f o r t between t h e assembly and t h e sena te and t h e par ty . I t h i n k you read i n your in te rv iews where some l e g i s l a t o r s f e e l they should be making a l l t h e decis ions. Well, I th ink t h i s t i m e i t ' s been a l i t t l e b i t d i f f e r e n t because we have a l o t of money t o g ive away, we could pay f o r s o many programs. Actual ly, l i k e I s a i d t o you, t hese people never had more than t h r e e hundred thousand d o l l a r s , and i f you--like they wanted reapportionment, t he re w a s nobody t o do a reapportionment referendum. But here was a pa r ty t h a t could say, "We'll do it," and t a k e i t on and i n f i f ty- two days q u a l i f y t h e referendum, spend a m i l l i o n two. There was nobody could do t h i s f o r them. So they saw i n us a body, an organiza t ion t h a t could--

Morris : Do something t h a t they wanted t o have done?

d e l Junco: That 's r i g h t ! So the re fo re they saw t h a t w e had--and t h e f i r s t t h ing I d id , I got a m i l l i o n d o l l a r s pu t i n t h e bank. And they knew th.ere was a m i l l i o n d o l l a r s t h e r e drawing i n t e r e s t every day. That was money t h a t they a r e going t o g e t , so you know they a r e going t o t a l k t o you, and you ' re going t o t r y t o nego t i a t e .

Morris : Wasn't i t J e s s e Unruh who used t o say t h a t "money is t h e mother 's mi lk of p o l i t i c s ? "

d e l Junco: Absolutely. And I: t h i n k t h a t our a b i l i t y t o organize, and our a b i l i t y t o l i f t t h e expec ta t ions , has grown g rea t ly . The Republican p a r t y never, never i n t h e pas t has been a b l e t o q u a l i f y a s i n g l e

d e l Junco: i n i t i a t i v e . * So what I 1 m . t r y i n g t o say t o you is. t h a t we have seen t h e pa r ty grow s t ronge r , s t ronger , s t ronge r , and t h e r e i s a mult i tude, a combination of forces .

Morris: But you f e e l t h a t Ronald Reagan has been one of those fo rces?

d e l Junco: Absolutely, absolu te ly . Because he has been our l eade r , but he has not been a con t rove r s i a l l eader . He has been a clean, f a i t h f u l l eade r , upf ront a t a l l times.

Morris : Even though.some people say he ' s kind of detached from t h e day-to- day dec i s ion making--

d e l Junco: I n t h e par ty . He has and he hasn ' t . Because, you know, I have t o confess t o you t h a t I have consul ted with t h e White House almost on a cont inuing b a s i s a s t o what I ' v e been doing. I go t o Washington almost on a monthly b a s i s , go t h e r e and meet wi th t h e leadersh ip of t h e White House, p o l i t i c a l l eade r sh ip , and they know exac t ly what we're doing. I ' m s u r e t h a t he--I t h ink he has a way about going about it. On t h e o the r hand, he has not thrown himself i n s i d e t h e pa r ty and began g iv ing o rde r s t o everybody. So, a s I s a i d t o you, h i s s t y l e , i n my opinion, has cont r ibu ted t o the un i ty and t h e growth of t h e par ty .

P r e s i d e n t i a l Campaigns

Morris- : When you were involved i n t h e pa r ty i n g e t t i n g him e l ec t ed governor, were you a l s o , i n 1965-66, th inking t h a t he might make a p r e s i d e n t i a l candidate?

d e l Junco You know, i n t e r e s t i n g l y enough, t h i s whole t h i n g about Ronald Reagan s t a r t e d way back when we were a l l campaigning f o r Barry Goldwater.

Morris: Really ?

d e l Junco: That 's r i g h t . It w a s t h e n ight of the de fea t of Barry Goldwater. We were a t t h e M a s s a d o r Hotel , and Ronald Reagan gave a l i t t l e speech af te rwards t o l i f t t h e morale of everybody. And we began, a l o t of people began t o say--you know, he had j u s t given t h e n ight before t h a t famous speech--

*Proposi t ion 14, November 1982, an i n i t i a t i v e t o c r e a t e a c o d s s i o n t o e s t a b l i s h congressional and l e g i s l a t i v e d i s t r i c t s . Not passed.

Morris : The one i n October 1964 t h a t brought i n a l l t h e money f o r t he Goldwater campaign.

de l Junco: Remember the night t h a t he gave t h a t tremendous speech? It was then that w e f o r t h e f i r s t t i m e s a i d , "You know, t h i s man should b e running f o r governor." Af t e r t h a t , Sa lva to r i and T u t t l e and what 's the name of t h i s guy--he used t o be p re s iden t , chairman of t h e board I t h i n k of Union O i l . He d ied .

Morris : Cy Rubel. -

d e l Junco: Cy Rubel. And t h e r e was a fou r th guy the.re besides them.

Morris: Was t h a t Ed Mi l l s ?

de l Junco: Ed Mills and T u t t l e were toge ther . Ed Mills, T u t t l e , Cy Rubel, and S a l v a t o r i , and they got toge ther and s t a r t e d t a l k i n g to ,h im. But I remember t h a t meeting t h a t n igh t of th.e de fea t of Barry Goldwater, a group of u s t h e r e i n t he Ambassador t a l k i n g about Ronald Reagan running f o r governor. And then h e was t e s t i n g t h e waters f o r a long time u n t i l f i n a l l y h.e decided t o run.

A t t h a t time, you know, w e a l l had i n p l a c e a l l t he Goldwater --remember a l l t h e Goldwater organiza t ions , a l l t h e Goldwater c lubs t h a t s t a r t e d about two years before? A t t h a t t i m e , then, a l l we were thinking w a s about Ronald Reagan being our candidate , being a b l e t o bea t Chris topher . So we bea t Christopher. And then our next s t a g e w a s t o b e a t Brown.

It wasn't u n t i l a f t e r eigh.t months o r a yea r had gone by, I th ink i t was about t h e month of October t h a t he was. i n of £ i ce t h a t t h e ques t ion came up-

Morris : When he s t a r t e d th inking about t h e 1968 p r e s i d e n t i a l race?

d e l Junco: The campaign. A t that t i m e you aga in had the Rockefeller-Nixon duel going on, and t h e ques t ion i s should a t h i r d candidate be t h e next p re s iden t of t he United S t a t e s , a t h i r d candidate.

Morris : Because nobody l i k e d t h e argument between Nixon and Rockefel ler?

d e l Junco: Well, Rockefeller--you know, t h e conservat ives were not too s a t i s f i e d w i t h Rockefe l le r , because they had t h a t r ecen t experience of t he Rockefeller-Goldwater debacle.

Morris : Right. But Nixon was a Cal i forn ian t h a t had had a l o t of experi- ence i n p o l i t i c s .

d e l Junco: That ' s r i .ght , b u t Nixon a l s o had h i s problems, because remember h e had j u s t been defeated f o r governor.

Morris : Y e s , i n '62.

d e l Junco: I n '62. And this t i m e Nixon was l i v i n g i n New York. He was no longer a Cal i forn ian . Remember?

Morris : Right. And t h a t bothered people 2.n Cal i forn ia?

d e l Junco: Well, I think that--he w a s no t a s c l o s e t o u s .

We had j u s t f i n i shed going through a campaign. We f e l t t h a t w e had a very s t rong Reagan organiza t ion . Ronald Reagan was a tremendous speaker . He took a few t r i p s ou t s ide t h e s t a t e ; I th ink he went t o I l l i n o i s , and he w a s extremely succes s fu l with h i s speeches, r a i s e d a l o t of money. So w e viewed him a s a p o t e n t i a l p r e s i d e n t i a l candidate . And, aga in , I t h i n k t h a t t he Sa lva to r i s and what l a t e r became known as t h e k i t chen cabinet--because t h a t denomination came i n t o ex i s t ence a s t e r Governor Reagan was the governor of t h e state.

Morris : I n o f f i c e , i n Sacramento.

d e l Junco: I n Sacramento, yes . I n f a c t , i t w a s about--I don ' t know i f h e had f in i shed his f f r s t term when--we used t o t a l k about t he pa lace guard--we began t o t a l k about t h e k i tchen cabine t . Then aga in they got toge ther and--I was a de l ega te t o t h a t convention.

Morris : I n '68 i n F lor ida?

d e l Junco: Y e s . I ' v e been a de l ega te t o a l l three, four conventions. I ' m s u r e you know the s t o r y about how things developed.

Morris : No, not f o r s u r e . I ' v e heard d i f f e r e n t ve r s ions of Tt .

d e l Junco: W e l l , w e went down the re , and I thought i t was c lose . I remember working t h e F lo r ida de lega t ion and working t h e Louisiana de lega t ion . We-were a l l pledged, as you w e l l know--Ronald Reagan won the--

Morris : The Ca l i fo rn i a primary.

d e l Junco: Primary. So w e had a hundred and f i f t y vo te s o r whatever pledged t o him. There w e r e a l o t of de lega t ions t h a t went t h e r e pledged, and everybody was dea l ing and wheeling t o see what was going t o happen on t h e second vote , and the second vo te never came around. Nixon won on t h e f i r s t vo te . And he came back. Then Ronald Reagan r an f o r governor again. The next time around, when Nixon r a n f o r r e e l e c t i o n , he was never opposed.

Morris : Was t h a t t h a t Nixon had such good c o n t r o l of every th ing na t iona l ly i n the par ty?

d e l Junco: I th ink that Nixon did have i n h i s f i r s t f o u r years a considerable amount of populari ty, a s you w e l l know. Of course, he won the second t i m e around. H e ran aga ins t IGeorgeJ McGovern, and t h i s w a s a lands l ide . But I th ink a l l i n a l l he would have beaten any Democratic opponent a t t h a t t i m e . Because he was popular. H e had j u s t come back from China. Had opened t h e markets i n the Far East. And h e was viewed a s a very e r u d i t e expert i n fore ign policy. H e had p r e t t y broad recognit ion i n t h e Republican par ty . Ronald Reagan was s t i l l the governor of the s t a t e when Nixon ran the second t i m e . And Ronald Reagan had two more years t o go. I suppose t h a t those of us who wanted t o s e e Ronald Reagan be President of t h e United S t a t e s were--thought t h a t he was young enough t o wai t f o r t h e next time around. And t h a t ' s what happened.

Then when the 1976 convention came about, t h a t was a very touchy s i t u a t i o n because w e w e r e s p l i t i n Cal i fornia t o a degree. Because t h e r e w e r e s o m e l oya l forces vis-8-vis Paul Haerle. (You talked t o Paul; i t would be i n t e r e s t i n g t o know what Paul says now.) Paul became a very, very, very persuasive, s t rong supporter of President Ford. Created very ser ious s p l i t s i n this s t a t e . Nevertheless, then Governor Ronald Reagan, was ab le t o win the primary hands down agains t Ford. I think t h a t some t a c t i c a l mistakes were what cos t him the winning t h a t nomination ( in 1976). Because I thought i t was a very c lose nomination. Ford won the nomination, and then the o ld man showed t h a t h e wasn't o ld , t h a t he was s t rong and t h a t he could be perceived as a s t rong, v i a b l e candidate, and t h a t ' s how he won i n 1980. Everybody thought he was too old. Nobody could make a case out of i t because the guy was s o v iable , and s o v ibrant .

Morris : And h i s organizat ion by then was r e a l l y working well?

de l Junco: I think everyone learned a l o t from the Reagan-Ford campaign. I th ink t h a t i f Reagan would have spent more time i n Ohio t h a t primary, i f he would have won Ohio, there would have been a t o t a l l y d i f f e r e n t b a l l game. But he stayed i n Cal i fornia .

I don't know i f you remember--The Ohio primary and t h e Cal i fornia primary w e r e a t the same t i m e , and f o r some reason o r o ther they were l ed t o be l ieve t h a t he had t o s t a y i n Cal i fornia t o p ro tec t h i s home base, and he never went t o Ohio t o campaign u n t i l about Friday--I th ink i t was Thursday o r Friday--before the e lec t ion . He went down there and did a very good job, bu t i t was too l a t e . But i f he had won t h a t Ohio primary, the whole thing would have been t o t a l l y d i f f e r e n t .

But, you see, I thought t h a t Ford d id a tremendous job. Ford came to Cal i fornia , and some other people ran a survey and they showed t h a t Ford had made la] grea t advance i n Cal i fornia . But I th ink t h a t Ronald Reagan did not have t o s t ay i n Cal i fornia a s much as h e did t o win the S t a t e of California.

Morris :

d e l Junco :

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d e l Junco :

Who was making the dec i s ion t h a t he s t ayed he re r a t h e r than going t o Ohio?

I n those days, i n t e r e s t i n g l y enough., t h e person running t h e Reagan campaign was John Sears ; remember, t h a t he f i r e d ?

Sears r a n i n t o d i f f i c u l t y i n t h i s 1980 campaign.

I n t h a t campaign. And t h e guy running the campaign of Ford was S tu Spencer. .

Really? Who had run Reagan's '66 campaign.

Right. And who was very much involved i n t h e l a s t campaign wi th Reagan. S tu Spencer was a b l e t o demonstrate t h a t Ford had made a l o t of in roads h e r e i n Ca l i fo rn i a and keep then-Governor Reagan campaigning i n Cal i forn ia . But p r imar i ly t h e two s t r a t e g i s t s then--Stu Spencer was t h e s t r a t e g i s t f o r Pres ident Ford, and h e s t r a t e g i z e d t h e campaign w e l l , and John Sears was f o r Reagan.

[ i n t e r r u p t i o n , phone c a l l . Severa l b r i e f passages of un re l a t ed d i scuss ion de l e t ed from t h e fol lowing s e c t i o n . ]

You know, I ' d l i k e t o te l l t h e s t a t e c e n t r a l committee what your p r o j e c t i s doing. I th ink you could add a l o t of background t o t h e h i s t o r y of t h e Republican pa r ty . I ' m a lame duck chairman, bu t I w i l l g e t toge ther w i th Ed Reinecke, who is going t o be t h e new s t a t e chairman.

By t h e way, t he re ' s another person who had a l o t t o do wi th Reagan when he was governor. H e was l i e u t e n a n t governor f o r s i x years .

Right , I t h i n k he ' s a very important p a r t of the s t o r y , both i n r e l a t i o n t o government admin i s t r a t i on and i n some of t he problems t h e pa r ty r a n i n t o i n those years .

Let m e t a l k t o him and see what I can do. You know, he's had some s t r ange f e e l i n g s concerning many of t h e people involved, t h e f i n a l outcome of t h i s .

I n a sense , I s.uppose, h e may f e e l t h a t he may have taken t h e r ap , as they say , f o r th ings about t he 1972 convention t h a t he maybe was not f u l l y r e spons ib l e f o r .

I th ink t h a t ' s a very important t h ing , what you ' re say ing , because h i s t o r i c a l l y speaking, h i s s i d e of th.e s t o r y should be to ld . Here's a guy who was due t o become governor of t h e S t a t e of Ca l i fo rn i a without any doubt. I f t h a t i nc iden t had not taken p l ace , h e would have won t h e governorship of t h e s t a t e hands down.

d e l Junco: Je r ry Brown would have never touched him. And they were a b l e t o put t h e th ing together with nothing else but a fake type of th ing , how i t happened, where i t happened. I th ink h i s t o r y should record h i s s t o r y , even though o ther people would t e l l i t d i f f e r e n t l y .

Morris: T h a t ' s our f ee l ing . W e would be del ighted i f he would be w i l l i n g t o be interviewed.

1verb.atim t r a n s c r i p t resumes]

d e l Junco: I'll b e very happy t o t a l k t o him because I th ink that a l l t h i s you're doing--the absence of the l i eu tenan t governor f o r six years leaves a tremendous vacuum i n t h a t whole s t o r y .

Morris : Lieutenant governor is a very in teres t i .ng spot--his views on what it's l i k e t o be l i e u t e n a n t governor of Cal i forn ia and the pros and cons.

d e l Junco: But moreover, what happened the l a s t two yea r s of his l i eu tenan t governorship. We were dea l ing wi th Nixon and w e were ge t t ing i n t o the conventions. It was going t o be i n San Diego and then it was t r ans fe r red from San Diego and then supposedly he committed per jury and a l l that s t u f f . It's a l o t .

'You know, the re a r e l i e u t e n a n t governors and l i eu tenan t governors. There a r e l i e u t e n a n t governors t h a t know, I understand, as much about what's going on i n government as I might know about what's happening i n the government of Thatcher i n England, and t h e r e a r e o thers t h a t a r e very much a p a r t of the government. I don' t know how much exact ly did Reinecke p a r t i c i p a t e i n the govern- ment of Ronald Reagan.

Morris : It looks a s i f t he re were some e f f o r t s to expand t h e r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s of the l i eu tenan t governor's o f f i ce . [ in t e r rup t ion , phone c a l l i n Spanish]

Reagan a s Pres ident ; Thoughts on South America and o the r World Problems

d e l Junco : That was a r epor t e r from t h e Spanish language s t a t i o n , wanting, t o interview me about the t r i p of the Pres ident t o Lat in America.

I s a i d t o him, "Sergio, I don' t want t o be presumptive about t e l l i n g you what the Presi.dent is going t o b e doing. This is no time f o r me t o ge t on the. Spanish. network nationwide and b r ing up again the. Argentina s i t u a t i o n , wh.en the president.'^ got a good w i l l t r i p . " They're a n t i c i p a t i n g t h e guy. 1 ' m not going t o go

d e l Junco:

Morris: ,

de l Junco :

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d e l Junco :

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d e l Junco :

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d e l Junco :

out t h e r e a t t h e moment t h a t t h e Pres ident is t r y i n g t o go and t r y i n g t o do something p o s i t i v e f o r the United S t a t e s , t o g e t involved with. those i s s u e s .

But it's a l o t of fun, and everybody has got his c ~ n agenda, which is t h e most fun of a l l . You have t o f i n d out what t h e agenda f o r each person is.

1laughsJ And then t r y and make these d i f f e r e n t agendas come to- ge ther i n some kind of consensus?

And b e a b l e t o s t i c k t o Iyour own.] I ' v e got my agenda, l i k e you have yours , and I suppose t h a t everyone wants t o s e e h i s agenda p reva i l . That 's what i t 's a l l about, you know.

How d i f f e r e n t a r e th.e agendas? Is t h e r e much overlap o r a r ea of I

con£ l i c t ?

O h , sometimes w i t h t h e p r e s s t h e r e is.

By and l a r g e , do you f i n d t h a t t h e p re s s and o the r media people h e l p f u l or--?

I have an e x c e l l e n t r e l a t i o n s h i p w i t h t h e m . I ' v e been very candid w i t h them. But t h e problem wi th t h e Pres ident and what everybody has t o understand-just l i k e your i n t e r e s t is t o e s t a b l i s h a record and t o have an anecdote of t h e whole th ing and g e t d i f f e r e n t impressions s o you can come out w i th [ t h e whole story]--with the P re s iden t , the p r e s s a r e n ' t i n t e r e s t e d i n the record. They're i n t e r e s t e d i n t h e P re s iden t as news.

I n something t h a t ' s con t rove r s i a l ?

I n the. news ! They 're i n t h e news. Their i n t e r e s t is t o maintain everything very f l u i d and t o e s t a b l i s h as much a s p o s s i b l e a type of adversary r e l a t i o n s h i p , opponent t o those i n o f f i c e and those ou t of o f f i c e . For some of them i t becomes a t r u e game. It r e a l l y does. But t h a t doesn't f i t t h e agenda.

No, c e r t a i n l y no t your agenda, w i th an organiza t ion t o keep running--

Because, you s e e , my agenda is t o e l e c t Republicans and t o he lp t h e P re s iden t , not t o out fox anybody, no t t o ups tage any ind iv idua l , and s o on. Like r i g h t now, I ' ve got a l l kind of phone c a l l s about t h e P re s iden t ' s t r i p , and I don' t want t o answer any ques t ions . I f they have a ques t ion , c a l l t h e Pres ident . But I t h e p re s s wants] , "The chairman of t h e Republican par ty said--" You know, Hispanic and a l l t h a t . Why should I be upstaging t h e P res iden t? So I r e f u s e t o t a l k t o them.

Morris :

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d e l Junco :

Morris.:

d e l Junco:

I hope he IMr . Reagan] has someone w i t h him as f l u e n t as you, i n both languages.

Well, I was going t o go, bu t I ' m not going. I wonder why. No, t he re ' s s o many people t h a t a r e capable and s o many people who a r e informed and s o many people who a r e very much involved, and twenty-five hundred th ings a r e going on.

You know, i t ' s i n c r e d i b l e what 's going on, i nc red ib l e , wi th a l l those count r ies . The problems a r e j u s t almost insurmountable. You can ' t g e t over them. I ' m g lad the P re s iden t ' s going down there . I t h i n k t h a t i t ' s time that we gave a l i t t l e b i t of p r i o r i t y t o our neighboring count r ies .

I n our own hemisphere.

You know, t r a d i t i o n a l l y , I th ink i t 's one of our b igges t mistakes, t h a t our p r i o r i t y systems--while we were r e l a t i n g t o Europe o r whi le we were r e l a t i n g t o t h e Middle Eas t and t h e Far Eas t and problems i n Ind ia , t he Cold Mar, whatever, we d id not s e e f i t t o say we're going t o have not only a s t rong America vis-2-vis t h e USA, but a s t r o n g cont inent vis-2-vis South America. J u s t th ink , i f we i n t h e l a s t t h i r t y yea r s had been bui ld ing and bui ld ing and bui ld ing , we would have a n economic base i n t h i s hemisphere, tremendous! But we have been s o immersed i n t o t h e b i g p i c t u r e , t h e markets--

The east-west p i c t u r e ?

Yes, and t h e b i g markets out t he re , and we have forgotten--

It 's t r u e . When you compare t h e s e th ings from a very , very-- s t r i c t l y speaking economics, then you've got t o come up wi th numbers, which is human beings, you know. Cent ra l America represents a l t o g e t h e r a l imi t ed market, 250, 300 m i l l i o n people. When you add Mexico, you got 200 m i l l i o n people, two and a h a l f . [ d e l Junco's s e c r e t a r y i n t e r r u p t s t o a sk a ques t ion] --250 m i l l i o n people. Well, China a lone has got one b i l l i o n . When we t a l k about markets and s o on, i t ISouth America] represents a much smal le r market than t h e European markets. So perhaps t h a t ' s t he economic reason, b u t I j u s t t h ink t h a t many of t h e problems t h a t w e f a c e i n South America is because we have not given i t , l i k e everything i n l i f e , t h e proper a t t e n t i o n .

I suppose some choices have t o be made; bu t i t would seem appropr ia te t o d e a l wi th-what ' s c l o s e r t o home, a s i t were.

You know, t h i s p re s iden t i s r e a l l y t r y i n g hard, b u t the th ing i s t h a t he is dea l ing wi th a t imetable , and t h e problems a r e s o l a r g e and s o g r e a t and s o many number i n t h e o t h e r hemisphere--

Morris : Is i t a l s o a ques t ion of what 's v i s i b l e and what th.e g r e a t e r p re s su re i s ?

d e l Junco: P r i o r i t i e s ! That 's r i g h t . That 's abso lu t e ly [ , r ight] . So I know that he would l i k e t o g ive a l o t more i n many ways t o our r e l a t i o n - s h i p between Mexico and Canada, because I ' ve heard i t myself. But he has t o d e a l with t h e o t h e r th ings . You know, [ i t ' s hard t o keep t r a c k of] one country i n t h e world. The P res iden t ' s presented when h e g e t s up i n t h e morning wi th a r epor t about t he Middle Eas t , t he Far Eas t , and China and Russia, and w h a t happened he re i n Cent ra l America and South America and s o on, because we have a very important , ves ted i n t e r e s t i n each one of those a reas .

He has t o d e a l w i t h a l l of them. I mean, i f you 're t he p re s iden t of France, I ' m s u r e you don't have t o d e a l - w i t h a l l those problems.

i/ i/

Morris : You r e a l l y c a r e about M r . Reagan as a person, don't you?

d e l Junco: I r e a l l y l ove t h a t man. To work w i t h him s o long, now as p re s iden t and a l l the yea r s he w a s governor--all t h e th ings he and the pa r ty have been through.

You know, someone e l s e you should i n t e r v i e w is Bob Finch. While Ronald Reagan was governor, Nixon was p re s iden t , and Finch w a s c l o s e t o both of them. He was a r egen t , too , and t h a t w a s some- th ing t h a t was a problem f o r Ronald Reagan was governor. You're from t h e university--what a r e t h e s tuden t s l i k e now?

Morris : The ones I t a l k t o a r e l i k e l y t o be concerned about nuc lear weapons and what they s e e as a r e a l p o s s i b i l i t y t h a t they may have t o go t o war.

d e l Junco: Yes, and when you consider t h e s e th ings , you have t o r e a l i z e t he f e a r s of t h e people i n western Europe. They a r e s o c lose t o t h e . deployment of Russian m i s s i l e s , which a r e being moved cons tan t ly , and they f e e l them coming c l o s e r and c l o s e r . And w e must a l s o t ake i n t o account th ings l i k e I s r a e l ' s export of weapons--30 percent of t h e i r expor t s are weapons--to o the r count r ies i n that p a r t of t he world. But they have a r i g h t t o be scared of t h e i r neighbors. A l l t h e s e kind of th ings a r e f a c t o r s .

Morris : Very d i f f i c u l t ques t ions indeed.

You've been very h e l p f u l i n t e l l i n g us about your work with t h e Republican par ty and Ronald Reagan. Thank you f o r g iv ing me s o much t i m e t h i s af ternoon.

Transcriber: Sam Middlebrooks F ina l Typist : Marie Herold

TAPE GUIDE -- Tirso d e l Junco

Date of Interview: November 30, 1982 tape 1, s i d e A t ape 1, s i d e B t ape 2, s i d e A [ s i d e B no t recorded]

INDEX -- Ti r so d e l Junco

appointments, t o o f f i c e , 8-10

b a l l o t measures, 2, 11-12 Brown, Edmund G., Sr. ( p a t ) , 13 Brown, Wi l l i e , 2-3

Cal Plan, 11-12 campaign f inance , 2-3, 6 campaign management, 1, 4-7 Chris topher , George, 13 Curb, Michael, 4, 6

Democratic par ty , Democrats, 3 , 9 Deukmejian, George, 4, 6

e l e c t i o n s , 1962, 4 e l ec t ions , 1964, 13 e l e c t i o n s , 1966, 5 e l e c t i o n s , 1972, 15 e l e c t i o n s , 1976, 6-7 e l e c t i o n s , 1980, 4-5 e l e c t i o n s , 1982, 1-2 e t h n i c d iscr imina t ion , 8-9

Finch, Robert H., 20 Ford, Gerald, 6-7, 15-16

Goldwater, Barry, Sr., 12-13

Haerle , Paul R., 6-7, 9, 10, 15 Hispanic Americans, i n s t a t e

government, 8-10 Hispanic Council, 7-8 Hutchinson, Ned, 10

l e g i s l a t u r e , Cal i forn ia . e l e c t i o n o f , 1-3, 91-12

Mi l l s , Ed, 1 3

Nixon, Richard M., 13-14

r a c i a l d i scr imina t ion , 8-9 Raffer ty , Max, 4-5 Reagan, Ronald, campaigns, 5-7, 12,

14-15 Reagan, Ronald, a s governor, 7-11 Reagan, Ronald, a s pres ident , 10,

12, 17-20 reapportionment, 1982, 2, 11-12 Reed, Thomas C., 10 Reinecke, Edward (Ed), 16-17 Republican na t iona l convention

1964, 5 1968, 1 4 1972, 16 1976, 7, 1 5

Republican par ty , Republicans, 1-20 Robert i , David, 2-3 Rockefel ler , Nelson, 5, 13 Rubel, A. C., 13

Sa lva to r i , Henry, 13 Spencer, S t u a r t K., 16

T u t t l e , Holmes, 13

k i tchen cabine t , 5, 13-14 Kuchel, Thomas H., 4-5

RONALD R W A N G-ERNATORIAL ERA, 1966-1974

Government History Documentation R o j e c t

The Ronald Reagan Gubernatorial Era R o j e c t wa. c a r r i e d out by Univeraity of Ca l i fo rn ia a t Berkeley i n cooperation w i t h Univeraity of Cal i fornia a t Lo8 Angeles, University of Ca l i fo rn ia a t Davis, Ca l i fo rn ia S t a t e Universi ty a t Fuller ton, and Claremont Graduate School. In terviews a r e grouped by t h e i n s t i t u t i o n which produced them.

UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT BERKEEY

Sing1 e In terviev Volumes :

Breslaw. Lester. Vision and Real i tv i n S t a t e Health Care: Medi-Cal and Other Public Prop;rams, 1946-1975. 1985, 96 p p

Carleeon, Robert. Stemming t h e Welfare Tide. 1986, 107 pp.

Dumke, Glenn S. The Evolution of t h e Ca l i fo rn ia S t a t e Universi ty System, 1961-1982. 1986, 89 pp.

Dtmckel, Earl B. Ronald Reagan and t h e General E l e c t r i c Theatre, 1954-1955. 1982, 46 pp.

Gianell i , W i l l i a m . The Ca l i fo rn ia S t a t e Department of Water Resources, 1967-1973. 1986, 86 pp.

Gleason, Verne E. Ca l i fo rn ia ' s Soc ia l Welfare Programs: An Administrator 's Views,. 1988, 183 pp.

Hall, James H. Supporting Reagan: Froln B a n k s t o Prisons. 1986, 157 pp.

Livermore, Norman B., Jr. Man i n t h e Middle: High S i e r r a Packer, Timberman. Conservationist, and Cel i f o r n i a Resources Secretary. 1983, 285 pp.

Livingston, Donald G. Program and Policy Development i n Consumer Af fa i r s and t h e Governor's Office. 1986, 90 pp.

Reinecke, Ed. Haverick Congressman and Lieutenant Governor f o r California, 1965-1974. 1986, 100 pp.

Riles, Wiloon C Wo Adversary Situat ionsw: Public School Education i n Ca l i fo rn ia and Wilson C Riles, Superintendent of Pub1 i c Ins t ruc t ion , 1970-1982. 1984, 1 3 4 pp.

Smith. Wil l iam French. Evolu t ion of t h e Kitchen Cabinet. 1965-1973. 1989. 59pp.

Way. Howard K. I s s u e s i n Correct ions: The Adult Authority. Determina te . Sentencing. and Pr i son Crcwding. 1962-1982. 1986. 68 pp.

Williams. Spencer M. The Human Re la t ions Agency: Pe r spec t ives and Programs Concerning Health. Welfare, and Correct ions. 1966-1970. 1986. 94 pp.

Mul t ip le In te rv iew Volumes :

Appointments, Cabinet Management. and Pol icy Research f o r Governor Ronald Reagan. 1967-1974. 1983. 232 pp.

Adam s. Winfred. "S t r a t eg i e s f o r Republican Elec t iops , S t a t e Government Management. and Water Resources. 1963-1976. "

Hearle. Paul R "Ronald Reagan and Republican Party P o l i t i c s i n Ca l i fo rn i a . 1965-1968."

Martin. J e r r y C "Information and Pol icy Research f o r Ronald Reagan, 1969-1 975. "

The A r t of Correc t ions Management, C a l i f o r n i a 1967-1974. 1984. 146 pp. Breed, Al len F. "Theory and P r a c t i c e i n J u v e n i l e J u s t i c e . " Procunier , Raymond K. "Administering Your Prisons. "

The Assembly. t h e S t a t e Senate, and t h e Governor's Off ice; 1958-1974. 1982, 490 pp.

Bagley. William. "Some Complexi t ies of Socia l Progress and F i s c a l Ref om.

M i l l s . James R "A Phi losophica l Approach t o L e g i s l a t i v e and E l e c t i o n R e a l i t i e s , 1959-1981. l1

Monagan, Robert T. "Increasing Republican Inf luence i n t h e S t a t e Assembly.

Rodda. Albert . "Sacramento Senator: S t a t e Leadership i n Educat ion and Finance. "

C a l i f o r n i a S t a t e Department of Finance and Governor Ronald Reagan. 1986. 125 pp.

Beach. Edwin W. "Some Technical and P o l i t i c a l Aspects of S t a t e Budgeting. "

B e l l , Roy M. "Revenue P o l i c i e s and P o l i t i c a l Rea l i t i e s . " Dwight. James S. "Early Reagan Admin i s t r a t i on Pe r spec t ives on S t a t e

Finance, 1966-1967."

C i t i zen Advocacy Organizat ions. 1960-1975. 1987. 210 pp. Canson. V i r n a 'Waging t h e War on Poverty and Di sc r imina t ion i n

C a l i f o r n i a through t h e NAACP. 1953-1974. "

Connolly. Margarete. "Speaking Out f o r Retarded Ci t izens . Heine. Carolyn. "Building a B a s i s f o r Change: Cal i f o r n i a l s

Canmission on t h e S t a t u s of Women." Miller. A n i t a "'The Tide of t h e Times Was With Us' : Women's I s s u e s

and t h e C a l i f o r n i a Commission on t h e S t a t u s of Women."

Democratic Par ty P o l i t i c s and Environmental Issues i n Ca l i fo rn i a . 1962-1976. 1986, 101 pp.

Boas, Roger. "Democratic S t a t e Cent ra l Committee Chainnan, 1968-1970. a

Warren, Charlee. "Rom t h e C a l i f o r n i a Assembly t o t h e Council on . Emrirorrmental Quality, 1962-1979: The Evolu t ion of a n Environmental is t . "

Governor Reagan and H i s Cabinet: An In t roduct ion . 1986, 174 pp. Luce, Gordon. "A Banker's View of S t a t e Adminis t ra t ion and Republican

P o l i t i c s . " Orr, Verne. "Business Leadership i n t h e Department of Motor Vehic les

and S t a t e Finance." Reagan, Ronald. "On Becoming Gwernor .

Governor Reagan's Cabinet and Agency Administrat ion. 1986; 213 pp. Brian, E a r l W. "Health and Welfare Pol icy, 1970-1974: A Narrow

Spectrum of Debate. S t eams , James G. "Joining Reagan's Campaign i n Sacramento:

Conservation, Agr icu l ture , and Employee Relat ions. " Thanas, Edwin W., Jr. "The Gwernor 'e Cabinet as Pol icy F ~ r r r m . ~ Walton, Frank J. "Transportat ion P o l i c i e s and t h e P o l i t i c s of

Conservation, 1964-1974."

The Governor's Off ice : Access and Outreach, .1967-1974. 1987, 132 pp. Bradley, Melvin. " F a c i l i t a t i n g Minori ty Input on S t a t e Policy, 1 9 7 w

1974. " Habecker, Jackie . "A V i e w from t h e Reception Desk." Magyar, Roger. %overnor Reagan's Task Forces on Tax Reduction and

Local Government. " The Governor's Of f i ce and Pub l i c Information, Education, and Planninq, 1967-1974. 1984, 301 pp.

Beck, Paul. "From t h e Los Angeles Times t o t h e Execut ive Press Off ice , 1967-1972. "

Hannaf or d, Peter. "Expanding P o l i t i c a l Horizons. " S h e r r i f f s, Alex C "Education Advisor t o Ronald Reagan and S t a t e

Univers i ty Administrator , 1969-1982." Tooker, John S. "Direc tor of t h e Off ice of Planning and Research, and

L e g i s l a t i v e Ass i s t an t , 1967-1974."

I n t e r n a l and Externa l Operat ions of t h e C a l i f o r n i a Governor's Off ice, 1966-1974. 1985, 235 pp.

Gi l lenwaters , Edgar. 'Washington Off i c e Troubleshooter and Advocate f o r Commerce i n c a l i f o rn i a , 1967-1973. "

Jenkins, James. "Pub1 i c Af fa i r s , We1 f a r e Concerns i n Washington and Sacramento.

Procunier , E l orence Rand01 ph. 'Working w i t h Edw i n Meese. " Walker, Robert. " P o l i t i c a l Advising and Advocacy f o r Ronald Reagan,

1965-1980. " W a l ton, Rus. "Turning Pol i t i c a l Ideas i n t o Gwennent Program. "

Issues and Innwat ions i n t h e 1966 Republican Gubernatorial Campaign. 1980, 187 pp.

~ o f z i g e r , Franklyn C. "Press ~ e c r e t a x y f o r Ronald Reagan, 1966. Parkinson, Gay1 ord & "Cal i f ornia Republican Party Of f ic ia l ,

1962-1967. " Roberts, William E "Professional Campaign Management and t h e

Candidate, 1960-1966." Spencer, S tua r t K. "Developing a Campaign Management Organization."

Law Enforcement and Criminal J u s t i c e i n California, 1966-1974. 1985. 300 pp.

E l l ingw ood, Herber t Taw Enforcement Planning and Coordination, 1969-1974. "

Gunterman, Joseph F. "Sacramento Advocate f o r t h e Friends Committee on Leg i s la t ion of Calif orni&"

Houghton, Robert A "Law Enforcement Planning i n t h e Reagan Administration. 1971-1974. "

Marinissen, Jan. "'To Le t t h e Leg i s la tu re Know': Prison Advocacy and t h e American Friends Service Committee i n Cal i fornia , 1960-1983. "

Palumbo, Anthony L "Law Enforcement, Emergency Planning, and t h e Cal i fornia National Guard, 1965-1974. "

Legis la t ive Issue Management and Advocacy, 1961-1974. 1983, 315 pp. Cory, Ken. "Education Consultant and Aesemblyman, 1961-1974. " Hall. Kenneth. '"Playing Devil's Advocate1: The Governor's Off ice and

t h e Department of Finance i n California. 1966-1974." Kehoe, John. "Advocacy f o r Education, Consumerism, and Governor Ronald

Reagan. 1966-1974. " Miller , John. "Issues of Criminal J u s t i c e and Black P o l i t i c s i n

Cal i fornia , 1966-1974. " Sturgeon, Vernon. "State Senator, Reagan Advisor. and PUC

Commissioner. 1960-1974. "

Organizational and F i sca l Views of t h e Reagan Administration. 1984. 183 pp. King, Warren. 'Governor Reagan's Use of Task Forces and Loaned

Executives, 1966-1968. " Lucas, Harry. "New Approaches t o Vocational Rehabil i t a t ion . " Post, A Alan. "Public Aims and Expenditure: A Divergent V i e w . " ,Volk, Robert, Jr. q w e r n m e n t Reform and t h e Maturity of t h e P o l i t i c a l

Process. "

Pwer ty Programs and Other Conservative Policy St ra tegies , 1970-1984. 1986, 110 p p

Chickering. A. Lawrence Hawkins. Robert B., Jr.

Republican Campaigns and Party Issues, 1964-1976. 1986, 201 pp. Crist ina, Vernon J. "A Nor t h e m Cal i f ornian V i e w s Conservative

P o l i t i c s and Po l i c i e s , 1963-1970. " McDawell, Jack S. nPrees Work and P o l i t i c a l Campaigns, 1966-1970. - Todd, A R u r i o "Experience and Advice f o r t h e Reagan Administration,

1966-1968." Watts, Skip (Norman). nOb~erva t ions of a Youthful P o l i t i c a l Pro.

Republican Philosophy and Party Activism. 1984, 142 pp. Hume, Jaquelin. "Basic Economics and t h e Body Po l i t i c : V i e w s of a

Northern Cal i fornia Reagan Loyalist." de l J~P~co, T i r s a "Gal i f o rn ia Republ ican Party Leadership and Success,

1966-1982. " Storrs , Eleanor Ring. "Par t ies , Po l i t i c s , and Pr inc ip les : 'It1s a t

t h e Loca l Level.'" Wrather, Jack. "On Friendship, Pol i t i c s , and Government. "

The San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission, 1964-1973. 1986, 98 pp.

~ o d w i t z , Joseph E. "Management and Pol icy Directions. " Lane, Melvin B. "The Role of t h e Chairman i n S e t t i n g and Maintaining

Goals. " Shute, E Clement, Jr. 'The Place of t h e Courts i n t h e Solut ion of

Controversial Policy Issues." .

San Francisco Republicans. 1980, 160 pp. CZlristopher, George. "Mayor of San Francisco and Republican Party

Candidate. " Weinberger, Caspar. "California Assembly, Republican S t a t e Central

Committee, and Elect ions, 1953-1966."

Services f o r Californians: Executive Department Issues i n t h e Reagan Administration, 1967-1974. 1986, 240 pp.

Camilli, Richard L. "Health Care Reform and S t a f f Development, 1969-1974. "

Carter, Louis. " P i l o t i n g Assistance t o Small and Minority Businesses, 1969-1975. "

Lowry, James V. "State Mental Health Services, 1967-1971." Mott, William Penn, Jr. "Managing the Ca l i fo rn ia S t a t e Park System,

1967-1974." Swoap, David. "The Continuing Story of Welfare Reform, 1965-1983"

UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT LOS ANSELES

Beil enson, Anthony C Securing Libera l Leg i s l a t ion During t h e Reagan Administration. 1982, 81 pp.

Burke, Yvonne Brathwaite. New Arenas of Black Influence. 1982, 46 pp.

Dales, Jack. Pragmatic Leadership: Ronald Reagan as Pres ident of t h e Screen Actors Guild. 1982, 49 pp.

Darling, Dick. Republican Activism: The Ca l i fo rn ia Republican Assembly and Ronald Reagan. 1981, 56 pp.

Dunne, George H. Chr i s t i an Achrocacy and Labor S t r i f e i n Hollywood. 1981, 67 pp.

Plog, Stanley. More than J u s t an Actor: The Ear ly Campaigns of Ronald Reagan. 1981, 29 pp.

Reagan. N e i l . P r iva te Dimensions and Pub1 i c Images: The Early P o l i t i c a l Campaigns of Ronald Reagan. 1981 , 5 8 pp.

Younger, Evelle J. A Li fe t ime i n Law Enforcement. 1982, 60 pp.

Watson, P h i l i p E. Tax Reform and Profess ional iz ing the Los Angeles County Assessor's Office. 1 9 8 9 , 443 pp.

CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY AT FULLERTON

Finch. Robert H. V i e w s From t h e ~ i e u t e n a n t Governor's Office. 1983, 107 pp.

Wright, Donald. A View of Reagan and t h e Ca l i fo rn ia Courts. 1984, 87 pp.

The "Kitchen Cabinet": Four Ca l i fo rn ia C i t i zen Advisers of Ronald Reagaa 1983, 157 pp.

Dart, J u s t i n M i l l s , Edward Salvator i , Henry Tut tl e, Holmes

Legisl ative-Governor Re1 a t i o n s i n t h e Reagan Years: Five Views. 1983, 277 pp.

~ e v e r l ~ . Robert. "Ref lec t ions of a Republican Assemblyman. Carpenter, Dennis E. wRepublican S t a t e Committee Gair and Senator." Cologne, Gordon. 'Water Policy i n t h e Reagan Years. " Moretti , Robert. "Recollect ions of an Assembly Speaker." Zenovich, George. "Senate Democrat i n t h e Reagan Government. "

UAREMONT GRADUATE SCHOOL

Busterud, John A The Ca l i fo rn ia Const i tu t ion Revision Commission 1982, 37 pp.

Flournoy , Houston I. Ca l i fo rn ia Assemblyman and Control ler . 1982, 235 pp.

The History of Proposit ion #l: Precursor of Ca l i fo rn ia Tax L imi ta t ion Measures. 1982, 102 pp.

Stubblebine, William Craig. "The Devel o p e n t of R o p o e i t i o n #l." Uhler, Lewis K. "Chairman of Task Force i n Tax Reduction."

UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT DAVIS

Coke, J. Earl. Reminiscences of People and (Ihange i n Cal i fornia Agriculture, 1900-1975. 1976, 265 pp.

Pa r t i c ipa t ing I n s t i t u t i o n s

O r a l History Off ice, Department of Special. Collections, Library, University of California, Davis, California, 95616.

O r a l History Program, Ca l i fo rn ia S t a t e University, Library 243, Fullerton, California, 92634.

O r a l History Program, Claremont Graduate School, Q aremont, Cal i f ornia, 9171 1.

O r a l History Program, Powell Library Building, University of Cal i fornia , Los Angeles, Cal i fornia , 90024.

Regional O r a l History Off ice, 486 The Bancrof t Library, University of California, Berkeley, California, 94720.

Sarah Lee Sharp

B.A., Univereity of California, San Diego, 1971, with major in hietory.

M.A., University of California, San Diego, 1975, vlth" aajor field in United States history; Teaching Assistant in Comparative Americas, 1972-1975.

Ph.D., University of California, San Diego, 1979, with major field in United States history; dissertation entitled, "Social Criticism in California During the Gilded Age."

Interviewer-Editor for Regional Oral History Office, 1978 to the present, epecializing in California political and legal hietory.

Gabrie l le Morris

Graduate of Connecticut College, New London, i n economics; independent study i n journalism and c rea t ive wri t ing; add i t iona l study a t Tr in i ty College arrd Stanford University.

His tor ian , U. S. Air Force, qocumenting Berl in Air L i f t , o the r post-World War I1 issues . Public r e l a t i o n s and ' adver t i s ing f o r r e t a i l and t h e a t e r organizat ions i n Connecticut. Research, wr i t ing , policy development on Bay Area community i s sues f o r Cniversi ty of Cal i fornia , Bay Area Council of Soc ia l Planning, Berkeley Unified School D i s t r i c t , and others .

Interviewer-editor, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancrof t Library, 1970- Emphasis on l o c a l community and s o c i a l h i s t o r y ; and s t a t e government h i s tory documentation focused on s e l e c t e d adminis t ra t ive , l e g i s l a t i v e , and p o l i t i c a l i s sues i n the gubernator ia l administrat ions of E a r l Warren, Goodwin Knight, Edmund G. Brown, Sr . , and Ronald Reagan.

19 80- , d i r e c t o r , Reagan Gubernatorial Era Projec t .