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>> I can hear you.

>> Hi! How are you doing?

>> Fine.

>> I'm having a little issue over here so I'm just double checking.

We're going to go ahead and get started everyone. So I am going

to go ahead and do some introductions.

So I am the vice president of practice engagement in the

building here at the Iowa occupational therapy association.

I am also joined by Sabrina who is our vice President of

education and professional development who will be helping to

moderate this session tonight.

We have our panelist that are joining us. Thank you! We have

our AOTA board President, Wendy, as well as our board secretary,

Melissa.

And is part of our panelist from our practitioner side, as well

as Gregory and Tyra banks. So right now, I'm going to go over a

few of our housekeeping things.

I want to make sure we're allowing as much time as possible

for our participants to share for us to listen because we value

everyone's voice.

In order to do that, with hundreds of our practitioners and

students and therapists signing up for this listening session, we

will ask that you try as best as you can to keep your statements

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to one comment or question, as concise as you are able to, being

mindful of the amount of the individuals that may want to speak.

So if you decide to speak, we have at the bottom of your screen,

it should say participants next to the chat box. You will click

on your -- find your name and raise your hand. That way we can

select you to speak. Prior to that, we ask everyone to keep their

microphones muted and unmute if you are called on to share or ask

a question.

So for those who are participating on YouTube live, we also

invite you to share your comments and questions by using the chat

box within that platform so we can introduce you into the

conversation and include you in the discussion that is going on.

We have a moderator on YouTube live that will then send over

the questions and Sabrina will be sharing that with our panel and

with the group. And so this listening session is being recorded.

We will be sharing publicly following in session as well and

if you are an AOTA member, we invite you to continue the

conversation moving on over to commune OT so we can continue our

discussion.

And if you're not a member, we certainly encourage you to become

a member so we can continue to do this work together. And now this

is my pleasure to introduce our AOTA secretary, Melissa.

>> Hi! Hi, everybody! Thank you, Alisha. For those who don't

know me, my name is Melissa. I'm an occupational therapy

assistant and I serve as secretary on AOTA's board of directors.

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I just want to start us off tonight. Some of you may wonder why

I'm here. I'm here to represent the board and listen.

I'm here to learn, I'm here to take back all of your feedback,

your insight, your information. We have some work to do. We have

actual work to do and that's my duty here tonight is to listen.

You know, I want to share any experiences that I have that really

sparked my interest in doing better and changing the way things

are.

A few years back when I first started on the board of directors,

I had the pleasure of partnering with co tag and MDI. Probably

many of you are familiar with those groups.

One of the things that was troublesome for me, is I was labeled

as the diversity champion. Some of you remember when there was

a time that had the title label. That was really uncomfortable

for me.

It wasn't right. I can be a support, an ally, but I have not

had things taken from me or passed on for things due to my race,

therefore, I'm not appropriately called the champion for that. So

that was one of the things that sparked my interest in doing better

and bringing things back to the board for us to take actionable

change that we need to do.

So tonight, I'm joined by Wendy and other members of the board

as well as AOTA staff.

We are solidly committed to making changes around diversity,

equity and inclusion. These changes that we want to make are

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around all of our governance processes. All of our association

practices. You all know we started a task force. They met

earlier today.

So most of us are really excited to hear about how it went and

everything that came from that. We have been actively revising

our official documents. We have been hosting these listening

sessions but I really want you to hear from me, this is not the

end of our work.

We have another listening session next week and that focuses

around education and academics and again, that's not the end of

the work. It's the starting point for us.

We are partnering with OTD, post professional student who are

pulling all of the information from the chat and putting that into

theme and repurposing that for us to utilize for strategic action.

So again, Wendy and I are here tonight to listen. I'm really

honored tonight to be joined by three people. Two occupational

therapists, I can't see everyone. And also, Tyra and people who

may not know, Greg, an occupational therapy assistant. We have

Alisha who also introduced herself and Sabrina that she kindly

introduced as well.

So again, there's another listening session on the 23rd. I

want to let you know, we're not done. We're here to do work.

We're here to listen. I look forward to hearing all of you, taking

what you say and bring it back to action. Let me turn it over now.

>> Hi, thank you so much, Melissa. So yes, I'm an occupational

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therapist. I consider myself entry level because I have only been

practicing for two and a half years. For me, personally, as an

entry level therapist, I have experienced, you know, micro

aggressions, macro aggressions, gaslighting, and I am very excite

today be a part of this panel because I feel as, what I consider

myself, an entry level therapist and some of you on the call.

They may be entry level entry therapists as well. We are

already dealing with some of our own insecurities or you know,

we're just trying to learn and you know, really hone in on our

skills and develop that. It can be challenging trying to do that

while getting all of these external pressures, whether it's, you

know, especially in the form of discrimination or racism.

So I'm very excited to be on the panel and speaking from an

entry level kind of perspective. I hope that as we look tonight,

we are able to utilize this time and create a safe space where we

can come together and share some of our personal experiences.

With that, you know, there's always that possibility that some

of the discussions are topics that we bring up or that you might

share can be very sensitive and could potentially trigger some

emotional, psychological responses. Feel free to take the time

to take care of yourself and be mindful of what it is that you need

to help process some of this information.

And then for some of us, these stories are not just unique to

us and there are other people that may be experiencing some of what

we have experienced. I'm so excited to hear your stories as well

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because I think, other individuals might be able to relate as well.

I'm really just excited to kind of hear what everyone has to

share and it's what I hope to get to this, this evening, is just

kind of, here's some of the emerging themes and topics that are

potential areas of exploration and growth and to helping our

profession, moving towards becoming more -- I like to say,

culturally responsive. I had a professor who -- because

I -- culturally competent, like how?

How can you be culturally competent? So she would always tell

me, you know, culturally responsive. I love that. I take it with

me and that's what I want to share with others as well.

Trying to move our profession to become culturally responsive

and more culturally sensitive, I think, is one of my hopes for all

of this and getting this information from you guys.

So I'm really excited to be on this panel this evening and I

will turn it over to Gregory.

>> Thank you, my name is Greg. I am also what you call entry level.

I was licensed and started working in 2018 as a coder, a certified

occupational therapy assistant. What comes to mind to me is, we

have a lot of -- there's a lot of facets we can work on. I believe

that we can become more diverse. We can be culturally responsive

and inclusive.

We can do all of it at the same time as long as we actually

put something in practice and as long as question have these

conversations and these discussions on why and why it's important.

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I look forward to telling some of my stories and my opinions

on things. I just think this is really great to talk about because

if we don't discuss it, nothing changes and you don't know what

you don't know, right?

So we all get a chance to kind of learn what we didn't know.

Thank you!

>> Thank you, Gregory! I have been an OT for 18 years in the area

of pediatrics, primarily in school base and early intervention.

I'm also an adjunct professor at community college, in our OTA

program. I'm in my final stages of my doctorate degree with the

University. The focus of my research centers on exploring the

real and perceived barriers with diversity inclusion and

occupational therapy education, practice and at the association

and some of you have participating in my research and I want to

thank you.

As an extension of my passion, and the DEI space, I founded

a grass roots organization that is a college access and college

retention program for families of color.

What I would like to hear discussed tonight are your stories.

The world is awakening to the cries of injustice and there is a

movement happening. There are many stories but generally, what

happens is we share these stories within our own echo chambers

because these are the spaces we feel validated and then nothing

happens.

It's up for us to share these stories so we can use these

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experiences to first identify opportunities for change and then

take actionable steps towards systemic change within our

profession.

I have certainly felt marginalized as a professional and have

experienced implicit and explicit biases due to the color of my

skin.

Tonight is about you. Tonight is sharing. Tonight is finding

possible opportunities and gaps so that we can move forward and

take that information and really affect change.

And provide leadership for our organization, our profession

to help our future practice. I will hand it back over.

>> Thank you! So just a reminder as we get into our discussion

now, we ask you to raise your hand using the participant's box.

I will call on you and ask you to then unmute yourself.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that we won't be able to

get to all of the questions tonight in our Zoom and YouTube.

However, we'll capture them and use them to inform future sessions

and other initiative.

I do want to acknowledge we have Liz who is assisting with

capturing some of that information so that we can use it as we move

forward.

So with that, I'm going to open it up to discussions for

everyone. If again, if you want to participate go ahead and raise

your hand in that box. Share your story, ask your question, and

we will get going. I do believe I was -- we have one individual

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that I can call on to start.

Ms. Ivory, if you are willing to join us, to go ahead and unmute

yourself and then you can go ahead and speak.

>> Sorry, I forget. I wasn't expecting that. Hi, good evening,

everybody! My name is ivory Campbell and I have been practicing

occupational therapy for a little over ten years. And pediatrics

as well as in geriatrics.

When Dr. Gibbs told me about this discussion, I flood of

different experiences have happened through grad school, up until

now. Some of which I was able to walk away and definitely identify

as silver lining for my own personal growth as a professional.

But there are some that I definitely, you know, plainly

speaking was just really hurtful. And you know, occupational

therapy is definitely a profession of the human, you know? You

can't really do this job without really trying to connect and

understand the routines and the personality whether that person

is three years old, 17 or 71.

And when you realize that the color of your skin can be a barrier

to that, definitely adds on a different -- layer of complexity to

the job when the job is already significantly complex.

So one situation I had was the very first job that I applied

to coming out of grad school, I won't say the company's name. But

through an entire year of, I guess, what you would call like a

mentorship program that was paid but you kind of were in the office,

you were in the head quarters and you were learning like different

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departments on how they operated in this company.

My plan is even when acquired my license, that I would move

to Virginia for this company. Within that year, I had experienced

a variety of experiences that I can only attribute to the color

of my skin.

The first one, there was a group of mentors and there was 7

of us. I was the only African-American in that group. That's

fine. I'm not walking in the environment thinking I'm going to

encounter bias or racism.

However, as I continued to work and prepare my mind to relocate

and I'm a new grand and I'm trying to understand what person, you

know, what person will I call on for this type of support, that

type of support.

What I had learned, unfortunately, the salaries that were

offered to us was very different. So I was offered 10,000 dollars

less than the other six people in that group.

Honestly, my experience, my work experience related to the

field and my experience I had done two research projects while in

school, really would have definitely set me apart from the other

six mentes if you will.

I was definitely getting paid less and they were all staying

local and I was relocating and my case load was the highest.

My weekly quota was the highest. And when I noticed that, you

know, the company was said, we're not supposed to discuss salaries

and I didn't initiate the conversation. The information came to

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me. What I found myself is that I went to the HR representative

head, actually, and I spoke to him in private because I felt -- I

mean, my first question was, am I going to make a mistake?

Am I going to relocate my family on behalf of a company that

is already treating me differently and just, I haven't even gotten

my license yet. And you know, thankfully, confidentially, he

explained to me that the company did not --

Well, not even did not, but had refused to create an HR program

that would help -- that would offer annual training to help people

identify and redefine what cultural competency was and

understanding their own biases.

The company had refused, the multiple attempts. He had shown

me the proposals on how they continue to make different reasons

as to why they don't want to roll it out. However, what he had

noticed is there's a number of African-Americans that had

complained about being treated differently than the most.

Than the rest of the staff or the employees. So with that,

he gave me a couple of names to go and talk about and do research

about why my salary, everything I was offering was much lower and

I was relocating.

And I did that and you know, I did -- I ended up talking to

other department heads confidentially and they were Caucasian and

were trying to help me understand the dynamics in the company.

You have to imagine that for me, going through grad school,

being told that I shouldn't pursue a master's degree. That I

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should be a nurse's aid, you know?

I should always strive to be the assistant of a licensed

therapist. It wasn't the first time but it was very scary because

I was so excited to relocate, to get started, to branch out, to

develop and to know, I say that monkey of like, what other

challenges am I going to have to endure on top of being a new

graduate and a new professional because of the color of my skin

that I cannot change.

I don't want to change. It's a worry that you start your day

with every day working and then you go into people's homes. As

a home health position, you go into other people's homes and you

have to leave all of that behind you so you can see this individual

as an individual who needs your help.

So to speak to that and speak with that is, you know, I was

taught at an early age that because I was black, that my journey

and my career, and my life will always be a trifle.

My best, probably would not be acknowledged as so. So again,

it wasn't the first time but, I will tell you as a new grad, in

having to like, literally do research to help get understandings

of a company that wouldn't support me as much as they would support

someone else because I was black.

It adds on a layer to entering the workforce, you know? You're

so happy. You know, I was the first person in my family on both

my mom and my father's side of the family to go to college, finish

their Bachelors Degree, finish their master's degree.

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I felt like I can't celebrate it because I'm still black and

I'm require today still be black, maintain a very positive face,

a positive attitude, help everyone. And then known my best, the

best, may not be considered the best and that there's always going

to be an opportunity to critique me.

To create a mind set that I'm not good enough. So you know,

when I shared this story before with students, you know, I think

I look at racism as something very generational.

But like, what I'm trying to do now is have a conversation and

hope that the person on the receiving end of that is open and even

if they don't explore their biases to me, because it is something

to have to explore your biases in front of someone else. It brings

about shame and ignorance, you know? I just, I really encourage

individuals. If you really care about just human beings, if you

care about the nature of this profession.

You take some time and you journal and you write down your

feelings. Sometimes we have feelings towards another race that

we're not even aware of. You know? And I think one thing I was

taught in grad school to be an occupational therapist because the

profession is so dynamic, is that I have to reflect at the end of

my day.

I do it now. I either write it down or I type it to myself

because I have had a lot of experiences that

>> Thank you.

>> Yeah, I have a ton of stories, you know?

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>> Thank you! Thank you, we appreciate that. And I want to allow

the panel to reply if they have any responses to that.

>> Well, I agree, I can say, I have felt the same as you and you

are entry level. I'm coming into a profession. I felt that as

an experience therapist coming in. Where going into a client's

home, and facing those same issues and am I good enough?

You know, I'm not good enough to treat.

For example, I went into, I showed up to a client's home for

early intervention evaluation. The black nanny granted me at the

door. Biggest smile. She was so excited to see me.

She ushered me into the living area to meet the mom. Mom says,

where is the occupational therapist. I'm like, I'm here

(laughing), you know? Here I am. And she said, I was expecting

someone else and you're not going to evaluate my child.

Yeah. And so I was very explicit and racism from the door.

And you know, I just also, in that moment felt my degrees don't

mean anything to this woman. No matter how good I am, it's not

going to help the situation because she has these biases against

me and we have to, you know, almost accept it.

And we're expected to accept it and move on and go on with the

daily lives, you know? And treat the next child and bring that

baggage with you in the next home, you know? And it's difficult.

It is very difficult. And I'm sure ivory and I are not the only

ones who have experienced this.

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I'm curious to know if anyone else has experienced any like

this in their workplace, with their supervisor or even a colleague

in these spaces.

>> Thank you, we do have a response, you can certainly raise your

hand. At this point, I'm going to move on, if you can unmute

yourself and join us.

>> Hello, everyone! I have been an occupational therapist for

thirty years. My daughter is currently an occupational

therapist. She's in American therapy school and that was her

first choice.

When I saw this, I'm so grateful for this but I thought, what

took so long?

I mean, when I listen to the students say that they were like,

oh, there's only three in their class, or two in their class.

I'm like, this was thirty years ago. Why hasn't this changed?

Why are we only addressing this thirty years from now. Why haven't

things changed?

And of course, I have some of the same experience as some of

the other therapists being African-American and it's hurtful. I

had a parent that actually said her son went to a private school,

an all white school, and when I evaluate the child, I say I don't

have any space on my schedule.

It was a pediatric home health. I did everything. I did

rehab, pediatric home health, I did schools, state school, I did

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everything except work private.

Any ways, I went to the home and I evaluated the child and I

said, I can't see the child after school because my schedule is

full. I will have to go to the school. She said, that was fine.

Then she called the office and said, it would be embarrassing.

My son would be embarrassed for her to go to the school. I'm like,

okay, so they found another therapist and of course, they found

a white therapist and the thing was, that the therapist they found

had a son that went to the school and she's like, oh, it would be

just like another parent coming into the school.

But my supervisor, I would tell you, we talked and she -- the

things she said to me was, I said, I really thought it was because

I was black and she said, I don't know.

What a good answer. But what I find that happens when the

parent complains. They will say, oh, she did this or she did that

because they really didn't you want there from the beginning.

They want the child to, you know, start the process. And a lot

of times, when we do an evaluation, that's held against you. They

will say, oh, you know, we had a parent that complained or didn't

like you or whatever.

I think, I mean, I know that -- I know it's not always the case

that, because you're black, sometimes, the parents do have a

legitimate reason and that needs to be respected.

Even if a parent, you know, I'm like, every parent, you know,

they have a choice. That's their right and that means it needs

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to be respected but I think, managers need to kind of know when.

You know, because you're African-American and not hold it against

you when it comes time for evaluation. Like, oh, you had these

complaints.

They know, some of those complaints were not really valid. I

had another time. I went to patient's room in the hospital and

they were like, oh, you know, I wanted a therapist because this

therapist didn't know what she's doing.

My supervisor goes, oh, what's the problem. They couldn't

pinpoint it. It was comical because they sent another therapist

in and the therapist said, oh, you're not doing the therapy like

she was doing it and she said, who?

The therapist that you said she didn't know what she was doing?

So it's kind of comical because they wanted her to do therapy like

I was doing it. Not like she did therapy. But they said, I didn't

know what I was doing.

So it was kind of like, they thought they would get better but

they didn't get better. They didn't get a better therapist. And

they really, I feel like they couldn't -- they had too many problems

to ask me for back.

So they ended up telling the supervisor. You know, no -- so

they would just complain. They are just complaining.

They're not going to say it's because you're black. They're

going to say, well, lot of times, because you're black, it's not

really a complaint. They don't really know. It's kind of vague

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and broad. They don't have one specific thing you have done wrong.

It's something that is wrong.

Even doing pediatric, I had therapists that would say, this

thing, oh, you know, she rings the doorbell too loud. Okay, so

I'm not -- I knock, I knock. Oh, I should ring the doorbell? They

think they're really unhappy so they just have these little bitty

complaints about little silly things.

To Ivory, I told them, you can be whatever you want to be. I

didn't raise them with the fact -- they're black. Yes, they know

there's racism out there but I tell them, they can be whatever they

want to be. When someone has a problem with you, don't make it

your problem. That's their problem.

I have learned that in my career. I do my best. I go in and

do the best therapy I can do. I do my best and once I have done

my best, and you still have a problem with me, okay. Well, I

mean -- all I can give is my best. I know when it's little

complaints that are just, just little silly complaints and then

when you say that, it's like, I didn't know what I was doing.

Well, you didn't do therapy -- you're not doing it like the

other girl was doing it, you know? You're saying she's not a good

therapist and you said she wasn't knowing what she was doing so

you know that's not the issue.

So I just think that, supervisor need to look at things like

that. If a patient complains and they say, okay, she didn't know

what she was doing. They send in another patient. You're not

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doing therapy like the other therapist did the therapy. Then you

know, okay, she did know what she was doing because they're like,

in a way, like, wanting her back.

And not hold it against you when it comes to evaluation time.

And say, okay, you have this complaint. Kind of be more in tune

to that.

Back to my initial question is, what took us so long to get

to this point, thirty years? I will say when I was in school, well,

I went to school in Texas. I'm not going to name the school.

We had a professor who was blatantly racist. Even the students

noticed it. She had tenure. They could not do anything to her.

What happens to the instructors that are racist?

They can't do anything? They can't be reprimanded? Even the

students that were not African-Americans saw that. This teacher

was just blatantly racist. So my two questions is, what took us

to get to this point and what -- I'm really hoping this won't be

just a talk. We're going to talk it and do something about it.

So my daughter, when she finishes school, she won't have to

go through some of the things I went through as an occupational

therapist. I love the field.

And my daughter, she loves the field but, like, what took us

so long to get to this point and what are we going to do?

What happens when there are -- I know you can file complaints

on racist instructions and that was done by some of the students.

There was only like four African-Americans and nothing really

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happened. They said she had tenure. They never did anything.

They taught for years with that same attitude.

>> Thank you so much for all of that. I guess I will recap the

questions that she had in regards to what took us so long and the

second one is, probably relating to the ethical standards in

regards to having instructors that may be presenting with racism.

What are the steps that our students, institutions, educators

need to take when we're faced with those situations. So I will

pass it on to our panel.

>> I would like to get into that. One of the other things she also

asked about is diversity as far as her employer or supervisor

understanding that just because there may be a complaint, it

doesn't mean it's a real complaint. That it could be something

stemming from racism.

A supervisor that can sit back and say, wait a minute. She's

complaining about this. This does exist. It goes a long way, you

know? I feel like a lot of people don't realize that racism is

so systemic and sometimes it happens.

So I feel like, when we have conversations like this, people

who haven't walked in a person of color's shoes, they can kind of

see where we're coming from, see what we're dealing with and you

know, when I go to a co worker or to a supervisor and I say that

Mrs. So and so, might not like me and she might not like me, not

because of my practice but because of just my skin color.

And I just might need to vent or talk about it. If we have

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conversations like this, maybe my supervisor or my co worker can

empathize and not look at me and say, oh, you're crazy.

What are you talking about? Because I do feel like there's

an opinion of some people that after the civil rights in the 60s,

that it just ended racism.

Once people got the right to vote and live where they wanted

to live, that it was the end of the story and then there's also

people who just don't want to talk about it.

You know, it's uncomfortable so when you talk about why it took

so long, it's uncomfortable. That's why. And people want to be

in their safe bubble and where everything is fine and there's no

issues and no race. Because the laws, you know, prohibit it. But

it doesn't mean that it's not racism and -- you know, if we can

just educate everyone that it does exist and to be more empathetic

to this when it happens or when someone complains with it. I think

that goes along way.

>> Thank you, Greg for your response. So I don't know if anyone

else, if Melissa, if you wanted to chime in with that at all for

Wendy before we move on to our next question.

>> Oh, I don't know that I have an answer or an appropriate answer

about why it took so long. I don't have an answer. I just think

you're absolutely right. There's things that continue to happen.

We were watching law and order the other night in my house.

There was an episode from like, 91 and it was almost a mirror

22

image of things going on now. We had the same conversation that

you are. Like, how is this still happening?

I don't have an answer as to why. I give you my commitment

that we will make changes. As we gather all of your information,

I think, hearing from you all is helpful to know that we can't slide

back, we cannot do something. So I really look forward to hearing

more from you all.

And any ideas that you may have about moving forward and making

changes.

>> May I say something?

>> Someone requested to say something?

>> Yes, I wanted to know, because presently, there may be some

students that are having this problem with instructors. What is

a chain of command that maybe they can follow?

Is there a help line or something that they can call and say,

you know, I'm experiencing this because as an OT student, you're

already stressed out.

To have that kind of experience on top of that and don't have

an out let, especially in the 21st century. You know, we

definitely can make it better.

>> Penny: One of the things that, when I was the ethics officer

at IOTA, we had many calls from students who had a variety of

problems including over racism and sexism.

The students in particular, if you look at the code of ethics

you can see where that behavior is not ethical and in many cases,

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not legal. No matter what AOTA and how they're handling ethic

complaints right now, that is something. That is a confidential

conversation.

Melissa or Wendy, I don't know, how AOTA is doing ethics now.

>> Hi, penny, you were taking us to a place I was thinking about

as well in terms of conduct of behavior expectations and of

professional expectations. Let alone human expectations, right?

And the way in which each person has that right to be regarded

with respect and dignity.

So when that is not happening, you know, it's a hard thing.

It's like, from -- I wish I had like, like the right answer. But

I'm not going to make something up and say, you know, that there's

an easy one to get there. I still appreciate the question being

raised.

Because we do have students out there right now, trying to think

about how to navigate that and where is my place and my opportunity

in my space to make us the end or take us to the end.

If I have concerns about something that is taking place either

directed towards me, or directed towards someone else, you know?

There may be people on this call that are seeing this happen to

someone else in their space and they have the responsibility to

be speaking up as well or stepping in, in those times when it's

not okay.

When it's simply not okay. So you know, Penny is, you know,

raising the point about ethics and certainly ethics and

24

professional behavior, professional conduct, should be on all of

our minds and if it's a place where we need to maybe be making more

explicit advisory connections or things like that, you know, for

AOTA.

The ethics group are wonderfully equipped to think about these

things. They're not easy things to think about as we're all saying

right here. And they're equally challenging, you know, in terms

of action. But that's, you know, that is a place where we

can -- where we might be able to direct that kind of concern. But

that's huge.

You can call the ethics department or, you know, the folks

involved with ethics there. You can send an e-mail. I know there

are people on the board of directors that we take e-mails as well.

You know, the thing I can't tell you is can we commit to something

specific right now.

That's why I really appreciate it being brought up at all and

giving us the chance to think about it so we can take the thinking

and put it into an action step supportive of young people, new

professionals, and seasoned professions that are still having this

experience in our professions.

Thank you for bringing it forward. I appreciate it and a

chance to speak to that.

>> The only thing I want to add because since you're talking about

students who are actively in academic programs, they're academic

institution, you probably have policies in place they can utilize

25

to address whatever those needs are.

As well as if it's escalated to a certain level, they can also

place a complaint with the accrediting body and it and addressed

there.

However, the true challenge is that students are placed and

they're not in a dominant position and OT is a very small

profession.

So the challenge is there's mechanisms in place that a lot of

students they not go in that direction because they're concerned

about the backlash after they make that type of complaint.

So I think, maybe AOTA may be possible, and this could be

something that you could bring up for the task force. It's looking

at ways to help students advocate so they are protected as they're

going through these channels to have their voices heard.

So empowering them in a sense.

>> And I would just, along that -- you brought up the institutions

where academic programs are housed Sabrina. You would hope, and

it's not always the case, right? You would hope that the academic

institutions would be a place for students to bring those kinds

of concerns or complaints to their institution as well.

There again, you also, you know, what burden is being carried

by the students in that case? What responsibility is being asked

for them to carry in that way.

They're trying to get through their program and be an

occupational therapist or assistant.

26

I will just say this, I don't know how popular or not, but if

this is happening in our academic environments, our academic

community needs to look at one another as well and see how we can

talk to each other as fellow faculty colleagues.

You know, as program directors, as people who are vested as

occupational therapies. What we're happening, is it happening in

practice environments? We all have responsibility for doing the

work individually to do better and coming together to make things

change.

>> Linda Smith, keeping raising her hand. You probably have a list

working -- I'll be quite.

>> Maybe that's just for you. I can't see it on my end.

>> I told someone they could go next but Linda -- I don't see your

hand raised on my end. I'm not sure why. But I can put you in

queue, okay?

>> Okay.

>> So before we get to the next individual, I did want to share

quickly because someone asked and I'm not sure if it was in the

chat box but, our code of ethics on our website,

AOTA.ORG/practice/ethics, it says this commitment extends beyond

service recipients to includes professional colleagues, students,

educators, businesses and the community.

So I just wanted to highlight that because I heard that years

ago and it really resinated for me. Our code of ethics is not just

27

for the individuals that we serve. It's also for our peers and

our students. So it's just interesting, the question that came

out of chat in terms of what code of conduct we have. I encourage

you to look at it.

I'm going it ask Angela to answer that. She's been ready and

waiting.

>> Hello, my fellow OT family! I am almost at a loss of words.

But I feel it's an honor and privilege to share. I appreciate your

patience in advance. I was one of those who felt like I did not

want to share.

I believe it's safe to say, I consider myself a global citizen.

I'm really big on positivity so I never wanted to speak what I felt

was negativity even if it was part of my experience personally.

I felt that how I was put spiritually, it put me in a position,

I could be equal to the task, no matter what the brunt or pain or

discomfort was.

I'm learning and this is a healing process for me. I have to

say, I want to briefly just share a few experiences I had, only

to highlight.

Not that it's like, I'm the only one, but this is something

as a family. Because we heal at home. So as a family, we can

achieve and we can work on in the education sector, in work sector,

in the community. So my education experience was very positive

in the University I completed my under grad. I am accredited as

a bachelor of science recipient.

28

I will say, the vast majority of my clinical practice for over

16 years has been relatively positive but I remember an experience

when I was a student. I was volunteering. You know those hours

we have to complete when we're getting ready to apply to the

program. I remember being so honored to be able to complete those

hours.

I'm sharing you guys, we're mobile as a family so pardon me.

You are really being invited to me family.

But I remember having the distinct honor and privilege to going

to one of the most world renown, rehabilitation places to get my

volunteer hours in.

But what our now colleagues didn't know, is that I already

worked there. I was working there as pharmacy technician. I had

observed some of them and thought they were the nicest young ladies

I could have possibly been paired with and I wasn't treated that

way.

I never talked about it. I remember because I was a single

parent at the time, raising two small children and I had to

reschedule.

I remember being made to feel inadequate as a potential

professional because I needed to reschedule. They assigned

blame, a lack of gratitude and I remember leaving that experience

feeling like well, if that's the case, I might as well look at it

as a wash to enter the profession.

Having faced things from a spiritual standpoint all of my life,

29

I used my faith base to get me through those challenges.

I'm thankful that I did. Because the glory does belong to all

mighty God and not myself. I was able to make amend after speaking

to the young ladies about how I felt.

I did share with them because I had enough confidence because

of my current status of a para professional to let them know I felt

as if I was being uninvited because of who I was.

Not because of the fact I needed to reschedule. It was a very

uncomfortable conversation. It was like, 8AOTs and COTAs to look

within and make the necessary changes moving forward from that

experience. I didn't work with them as an OT but I'm certain as

I took that experience with me, they did also.

The next experience is a positive one. It was during my tenure

at the University where I served in a different field. I was a

major change before I became an occupational therapist. So having

known some of the instructors prior to actually getting started,

I really felt safe. To be who I was and accepted for who I was.

I realize, it should be an expectation and it was an privilege

and honor for me to have that experience as a student. So yes,

I want to work with my fellow OTs so we can create a safe space

so we can have students to share their experience and peer into

these experiences to make sure that we help everyone grow,

including our peers if need be.

Again, that was the positive. But recently, I'm devastated

to go through this process, years where after having, not so great

30

experience with one organization, really feeling as if I had been

ousted from a profession that I love, from a career that I know

brings glory and honor to God.

I will share with you. This is where we can come together and

make a difference. I can recall, I don't remember to view it as

a soft discharge. However, I was no longer with the company.

Most OTs know, well, especially if you worked in skilled

nursing, oh my goodness, you'll find a company in a couple of weeks

and move on. Most of us who have practiced for a number of years,

we know when administration changes, those things happen.

Sometimes people want to be surrounded by the people they can trust

and get the numbers.

I can get that. What I didn't understand was why after having

that many years experience, and I won't claim myself to be world

renown physician, but saying, I have the clinical competition so

do my job because I have done it in a number of settings.

It was very disturbing to me to have trouble finding work. So

this is where we see the collective order of people who have

stereotypical ideas or even a desire to subject people of color

to power plays and recruiters.

I had recruiters my children's ages calling and it was almost

as if they knew me but I didn't know them. So if I put in an

application on indeed or if I put in an application with the company

direct, I would be either shifted to a contract agency, and that

would be where I would have more opportunity.

31

With a contract agency as oppose to seeking full time

employment, because obviously my hand had become tarnished and I'm

going to just say it in laymen's terms because I think that's how

we need to deal with it.

We need to deal real and so, because I don't judge from a

standpoint of knowing everything that a person thinks or feels,

I share my experience because I am certain there are others who

may have experienced similarly.

I can recall having a professional experience with another OT

who talked about months when looking for employment, she found

herself needing similar challenges. Since that time, I have done

more work in community out reach which is really helped me to

embrace, following our centennial vision.

I realized that those experiences that we don't oftentimes

appreciate, they are what refines us. So I share this with you

all and briefly, because there's so much more that I could share

to really say, I'm thankful to be where I am now.

I recognize that all mighty God was creating a pathway for me

to implement changes that relates to diversity and inclusion but

more importantly to really look at how we can share what we do as

occupational therapists with our communities. And with the

world.

And how we can also connect so that we can actually better serve

one another because we're all human. Ethics is a consideration

that I feel each and every one of us has to consider every day.

32

And in every aspect of our lives, personally and professionally.

So I'm not against one of my peers or my OT brothers and sisters

to come to me and say, hey, have you ever thought about this, how

it could be perceived like this?

Or maybe, when you said this, I felt like this.

That's what we're here for. We are here to strengthen one

another. Just like we help those who we refer to see, to evaluate,

we can do that for one another. We are train today be critical

thinkers and we need to listen to our guts.

If there's something about where you work or who you work with,

that is disturbing, I say, pray. Others may say meditate but find

the insight and the words and have the uncomfortable conversations

because that's the only way we're going to grow.

I think we can see how a lack of growth impairs not only a

people, but an entire nation and an entire globe and we done to

want do that. Thank you all.

>> Thank you! We appreciate that Angela. And so I -- the panel

can certainly respond to Angela's really heart felt story and

comments. Before they do that, I want to give us a little time

reminder. We're at 8:30. We have a little bit more time left.

We have Linda, we have you in queue as well as Ann that would

be up next.

And then Sabrina has a couple of other questions that we're

going to address. So with that, based on Angela's remarks, would

anyone from the panel want to speak to that?

33

>> Yeah, I just want to, first of all, thank you for sharing all

of that. It's great to hear your perspective as a seasoned

therapist and some of your experience.

I think that a merging theme and topic that I am getting from,

you know, Ivory, yourself, is that advocating for ourselves is

something that is really going to be something that we have to

really try to strive for.

As an entry level therapist, it can be really challenging

because we are still learning. You know?

And also, as a student, it can be challenging because as I can't

remember who mentioned it. But students are not necessarily -- in

this dominant position. So I think it's important that we find

ways to instill that advocacy. Part of what we do is to advocate

for our clients and patients.

We in turn need to learn how to do it for ourselves and it would

be great if schools taught that a little bit more on how to handle

certain situations and how to be able to advocate without feeling

like you're going to receive all of these reprocautions for stating

your peace.

And reflecting and processing the information. For me

personally, I try not to just say something that, you know, if

someone said something offensive to me or something like that, I

try not to respond immediately.

If I can have some time to process it and then come back. And

really restate why it was bother some. So what I'm hearing is,

34

we need to do more as far as -- or what I am taking from all of

this conversation is really that we need to start educating

students on how to handle some of these situations.

To me, it's in preparation for dealing with professors, dealing

with clinical instructions when they go out in field work.

Dealing with supervisor and managers in the workplace. It's a

really important -- I just feel like it's something very important

that we really need to start educating and instilling in

practitioners, especially as students early on.

So we can have these skill sets to thank you for sharing that

Angela and I hope that, that it's something that we can look into

and really start kind of creating an action plan towards really

just starting the power in that, of the student and of the

practitioner.

>> I would also like to add, you make a good point. Having the

students being able to advocate for themselves but also, have the

educators be held accountable for their action.

It shouldn't always be the student who has to speak up. It

should be, because it's structural and it's institutionalized,

there are things that need to be changed, period.

And it -- the onus should not be on the student only to be able

to navigate those spaces and they're trying to learn at the same

time.

And I also want to say that, you know, Angela brought up a very

good point. We are in a profession of helping. We should be able

35

to help each other. We are all occupational beings coming into

our work spaces and if we can treat a patient with care, we should

be able to treat each other with care at the same time.

Thank you, Angela!

>> I just want to say something, to piggy back on what Angela was

saying. As a manager you can't control the feelings of the mom

or the patient. If they're racist, you can't control that.

That's just the way that the world is but you can sit down with

your student or with the therapist and really talk with them and

find out exactly what happened and have them make that judgment

for yourself.

Was this a valid complaint on this therapist? Not just saying,

oh, I know -- the customer is always right. But respect the

customer's wants. If they want that, you can give them that but

you also sit down with the therapist and say, okay, what happened?

Of course, you'll get the customer's point of view and try to

make that decision -- some things they be valid. Everything isn't

racism. But I feel like the manager needs to hear the therapist

out and like I said before, the best thing I had a manager say is

she never walked in my shoes so she didn't know why I felt.

And -- I'm like, oh, the child is going to be embarrassed when

go to the school? Just sit down with that therapist and find out

what happened before you count that against them and say, okay,

this -- you have an evaluation coming up and you won't get this

promotion or raise.

36

Don't be judgmental. Be neutral and give everybody the

respect. The therapist and the client, the respect. And not be

judgment and just, you know, say -- I'm trying to find a better

way to say this. Not be judgment, listen to the therapist and not

judge the therapist first if the client calls and say that have

an issue.

Find out exactly what happened and -- hold against that

therapist or if it's something you know, that the client is just

didn't want the therapist.

Therefore, because they were African-American. I had

situations where I have taken over, say, someone's client and the

client automatically thought -- they didn't know that I was an

occupational therapist with a master's degree. They were like,

oh!

And so the coder would say, no, she's well trained. So

sometimes they just look at us as, as if we're not well trained.

I have walked into the hospital and people said, oh, I thought

you were coming to get the trash. So sometimes they just don't

see us as intelligent. And think we are the lesser person.

So we need a little bit more compassion there and less being

judgmental and respect for everybody.

Respect for the client and respect for the therapist and also,

like Angela said, a lot of therapist -- I have been a therapist

for thirty years. Like, you don't want to complain because OT is

a small world.

37

You don't want people to say, oh, she's a troublemaker so we're

not going to hire her or whatever.

So you take a lot and you just, you know, deal with it. You

deal with it because you love what you do, you love your profession

and you want to keep working in your profession and not be

ostracized.

>> I'm sorry -- I hate to cut you off. Your comments are so

passionate and we appreciate it. We promise that we would get to

next person --

>> I'm sorry, I had my chance already. I'm sorry for going on and

on.

>> Thank you, thank you. I'm going to pass it on, do you want to

unmute yourself? Hi, oops, wait a minute. I might click the

right -- you can see me? Okay, I can see myself.

I know Wendy! My maiden name was Woods and I was at KU.

>> I knew that was you!

>> In our class, I was one of two African-American therapist.

Interesting thing was, that other therapists, oh, look, there's

Tracy, my girl.

She grew up in the middle class family. I grew up in inner

city. I'm smack in the middle of Kansas City. So I see

everything, experience everything. So even with that, even

though we were both African-American, it was different. And also,

in OT school, I can remember the first day of -- they were saying,

don't work. I'm like, then we're going to need all the time to

38

study. Oh my God. I was working forty hours. I didn't want to

tell them. I was afraid if I tell them, they were going to kick

me out of OT school. You know, those are just the things you do.

One of the things, I worked at true man medical center. I'm

a very problem solving person. I did, kind of like a group

instructional thing at Reichers.

I did it on multi-cultural issues affecting treatment. It was

about, you know, Caucasian therapists there. And I told her, I

said it was a safe place. I said, this is a safe place. Ask me

anything because one of my main goals for doing that is because

they didn't know they were irritating and insulting their patients

or other therapists and stuff of a different color.

Especially the African-American. So I, you know, I made it

a safe place. They asked me about my hair. I would get the bucket

out and show them the different things, a cup, a pitcher.

I said this comb and I did this. I was like, this comb ain't

going to do anything for me. You go to a black hair care place,

blah blah blah. And I kept it a safe place where people felt like

they could ask me anything. That is very very important.

One experience I had, well, I'm doing an evaluation on the rehab

unit. I walk to see the patient. The patient is looking in the

opposite direction.

I'm thinking, well, you know, every time I wanted to talk to

her, she was literally looking in the opposite direction. I

changed over to the other side of the bed and she looked in the

39

opposite direction. I'm trying to do my value, and I'm like, what

is going on?

Well, I can come in and see you again tomorrow. That next

morning, my boss wanted to see me. When I walked in the room, the

department head was there. I'm like, oh my God. What did I do?

They said. Have a seat. They said, the patient, they said

her doctor -- she told the doctor she did not want to see me because

I'm African-American. I said, okay.

My boss and the other, you know, administrator and they just

looked at me. They're like, you're not bothered with that? You

okay?

I said, look, I have been black all of my life. I said, I deal

with this stuff all of the time since I was a kid. I said, she

is not going to want to see me. I said, my goal for her is for

her to get better, have a good rehab experience, go home and be

happy.

I'm like, I'm going to work. The most ironic thing, she called

the nurse's station. She had to go to the bathroom. Oh, no, she

fell on the floor and she had to go to the bathroom.

The nurse -- the nurse looked at me and said, no. I said, look,

if I go in there, that woman is going to pee on herself.

She is not going to -- you know? And the nurse said, why is

that? And I just did this. Said, because I'm black. But the

thing -- those things happen. And I have had instances where I

have done home health.

40

I'm driving to the place in a rural area, confederate flag,

confederate flag, you know. I'm like, oh my God!

I have to keep an open mind. I'm a Christian and that's my

thing. I have to -- I'm praying. I am praying when I leave in

the morning. I get my mind right and just take a deep breath and

walk on in.

There have been times when I'm so frustrated I go to the

bathroom and cry. You know, I go in my car and cry because a lot

of times I'm the only one and there's no one else to talk to.

If you do try to talk to your boss or whatever, I don't know

the right words to say. So one of the things -- I also taught for

a few years and they had a lot of questions.

With me being in a lot of different areas, we are in a lot of

different areas and the department building and things like that.

I would always say, okay, we're going to take the class room to

the clinic.

I had a separate lab where I was like a person they would

normally see. Like a person they would see. You're going to see

somebody who is a gang member. I have seen lots of gang members.

What are you going to do? Like, no? I'm a therapist. So I would

show different situations like that.

Another thing that I would do, well, a lot of role-playing and

I would use humor, you know? Using humor and some of my older

African-American patients and stuff, or even younger, or even

Caucasian or Latino. When I get their eval, I would always ask

41

them what their support systems are.

Do you go to church? No. I would tell their family, call the

pastor and see if they can send a tape or a program or anything.

You know? One lady I saw she had a stroke. So when I was with

her, I was humming a hymn and she started humming right along with

me and the speech therapist just is like, oh, she's talking.

I said, oh, we were just humming a hymn and she says, can you

do that when I see her? I'm like, you know? Those things are so

important and it helps to encourage. That's one of the things,

you know. Find out about your patient. Find out if they know how

to read.

You know, if the font is too small on your regular handouts,

you need to know it so you can enlarge it.

>> Thank you so much. I'm so sorry. I appreciate it. I mean,

you really speak to that's why having someone with a similar

culture as your own is important to have, practitioners from

diverse backgrounds but that's a perfect example why.

It's not to exclude anyone else but that's what might be there.

Thank you so much!

I'm going to ask for Ann to hop in since she's patiently

waiting.

>> Hi, I'm Ann. I have practiced occupational therapy

for -- years, I'm the first African-American budget Boston school

in 1969. And I -- all of the experiences of the therapists walk

in the room and they didn't want to see you.

42

In terms of supervisors who said various things that were not

appropriate. I have had that experience. But the only thing that

I really wanted to say was, why are we still doing this -- having

the same problems over fifty years at least in my experience of

occupational therapy.

I read the transcript of, I think, previous session or I started

reading and it brought up all of my pain.

Of what happened to me. And there were very few of us, fifty

years ago when I started. So in terms of the good news, there's

good people out there. Those who didn't want me, that was their

loss.

My parents taught me that I needed to be the best thing I can.

That God would be with me in my travels and now that I have been

retired for almost ten years, I still maintain all of my

memberships from my American association -- I read my literature

and agreed my career, except, I'm still a black occupational

therapist and I have been judged, sometimes very unfairly.

My one question would be, how do -- there's two sides of this

problem. There's the side of staff member, of being an

occupational therapist, an assistant, and how can we remove

racism?

But for the patients, our clients that we serve, I do not know

how to teach some people how not to be racist.

And thank you for letting me share my information.

>> Thank you, Ann! That's a big question! How do we teach someone

43

not to be racist. The anti racism.

And I think that's something that we're going to include in

our transcript moving forward. That's a big question to tackle.

Thank you!

I'm going to let Sabrina hop in because she had a couple of

things to share from chat.

>> Sabrina is not going to ask my questions because I realize we

have nine minutes left. I want to be respectful of everyone's

time. What I can say is, I have been reading some of the questions

in the chat and it sounds like a lot of people are really concerned

and really want to know about what AOTA is doing.

What are some of the initiative, you know, to kind of spear

head change. Also, a lot of questions about education and having

to educate our educators.

In the educational institutions as well as the work. For those

who have questions that are specific to education and there seems

to be a lot. It seems to be a recurrent theme. We have our last

of this series next Thursday. It's focused on educators. So if

you have concerns, issues, comments, if you want your voice to be

heard, because my assumption would be it's all, if not mostly

educators.

Please join that session. That would be a good place to kind

of pose some of those questions and have them hear it.

If you're unable to make it, we do have -- oh, I'm forgetting

her name. She's going to kill me, I'm sorry. But we have the post

44

doctorate student who is helping us, Liz Kline, who is going to

help us basically collect all of these comments and questions and

to put it in a format.

Give us the emerging themes. We will figure out a way to get

all of your questions and comments addressed. We're not sure how

we'll publish it but once all of the sessions are done, we'll figure

out a strategy to get that done.

>> Thank you, Sabrina. I do see Greg from our panel may want to

jump in with a comment.

>> Greg, are you still there?

>> I am, I am. Many many comments. Let's see. I want to go back

to something that Angela said that stuck with me because I think

we all need strategies to deal with racism.

Or just, you know, whenever we feel that we are being included

or are being treated in a way that's not respectful.

She talked about her positivity going to situations in a

positive manner. And her spirituality helped her to do that. So

I think it's great to talk about all of the things that we deal

with. And that we suffer through but she did talk about a solution

in a way. And a coping mechanism and I didn't want us to forget

that, we do have some control. We can control our attitude.

When it comes to our patients and how they feel about us, I

believe it was Melinda that kind of was alluded to meeting your

patient where they're at.

Finding out more about them. Me personally, when it comes to

45

spirituality, I'm catholic and I work in a school nursing facility

in a predominantly Italian American neighborhood so I am there.

I can talk to them about the rosary, I can talk to them about

missing mass because of COVID.

And it's not they stop seeing that I'm a black male, right?

But it takes their mind to where we meet, right? I think we all

have parts of our personality and our life, that we can connect

to other people on and it's not just our skin tone.

So that is, I think, a great way we can try to not necessarily

change the people we're working with but at least be able to help

them understand that we are more alike than we are different.

Thank you!

>> Thank you! Thank you, Greg for that. So we have -- you might

be the last one to speak tonight.

>> So it sounds like we're not hearing them. I'm not sure if you're

muted or no longer --

>> Oh, there we are, okay, all right!

I'm not hearing, Wendy. I'm not either. I saw her unmute but

I'm not hearing anything.

>> Okay, I apologize. I'm sorry we can't have you join but you

know, if you can hear us, I would encourage you to put your

statement or question in the chat so that we can at least record

it and capture it so we can address it.

So with that, I'm trying to check our time. We have about four

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minutes. I did see we had another hand up. I'm not sure if you

wanted to speak or if that was from earlier.

>> Oh, you're on mute.

>> Oh, sorry!

>> That's what I do.

>> And I'm on this all day long for telehealth. So I'm a graduate

of Tusky University and I have been an OT for a long time. But

one of the things that I would love to get addressed because I was

one of the students -- I was a student that stopped field work.

From happening in a southern state not too far.

A southern city, not too far from the University and it was

a racial thing and it scarred me. Let's say, the scars were there

for a long time.

Back there, we did a business and you did psych. This was a

psych rotation and it was a Caucasian instructor. I was there.

I started my rotation. By three weeks, I was gone. I gave it my

all and I did everything she said.

I can say my teacher, my instructor, stood by me. And she said,

it's okay. And she had to basically pep me up very well so that

I could lose my time.

You know, that's three months so you have to do something in

between, until your next rotation starts and then you're repeating

the other one.

And this lady, you know, she gets to go on with her life and

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you know, probably retire about now and all that and you have

scarred a student because of the color of their skin.

And their needs to be some kind of reprocushion, God knows how

many she did. But the University knew. They stood by me and they

knew that it wasn't me. But they did not send a student there for

a very long time. That's what my teachers said, they said they

would not.

So there has to be some way that there could be a bridge for

helping a problem such as this, and I -- I think, this is a

conversation to has to be had and some policy or some -- some kind

of ethical way of establishing something for that.

Because it puts that student behind. I mean I had no idea,

I didn't even know.

I reported it in and then I was told. The person didn't

even -- you know, panel came in. But mind you, my instructor

called me while I was back at the place thinking everything was

all right. She had to call me because she couldn't come and she

explained it to me.

And then I walked out. My mom, the money that I -- it cost

to get an apartment and all of that, and it was devastating. It

was absolutely devastating.

I'm just hoping that as an organization, that helps people,

that we can help different racial in our community as an

occupational association, to not have to experience it. No,

students should not have to experience this. I don't care what

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color, what creed. It hurts.

>> Thank you! Thank you for sharing. This is such an emotional

story. We are at time. We cannot leave it unaddressed, right?

So I think we may have too -- Wendy, do you want to address

that and then we need to wrap it up after that.

>> If you were in the queue, I don't want to jump in front of you.

>> Oh, it's okay, Wendy. I just wanted to acknowledge the pain

that a lot of students go through in trying to become an

occupational therapy practitioner and it's a shame.

I mean, Ann shared her story from how many years ago and we're

still here. Like I said before, I would like us to really continue

to share our stories and roll with this momentum. Change is

happening.

The world is awakening with this change. If we can come

together, share our stories and make an action plan so the future

of OT practitioners don't have to deal with a lot of the systemic

racism.

That begins by trying to diversify our profession because if

we have more people of color, people look like us in those field

work positions, in our work environments, as professors in our

school, we won't have as much as we have now.

So it's trying to break down those barriers so we can actually

still build pipelines for the students to come into the profession.

I mean, I really, I felt that when you shared that story. Thank

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you.

>> I just want to add, I mean, those are the things. Two weeks

ago when we got off the call with students. I got off the call

and I just sat for a minute, for a long minute with just the heavy.

Just the hurt. You know, that people are sharing in some of

their stories and the story you just shared. Obviously, there's

just -- the trauma and scars. Nothing to be dismissed. Nothing

to be dismissed.

So you know, I do thank you for sharing that with this group.

And you know, this is one of those where you want to say you're

sorry, but it's like, that's not even the right word. You know?

So I won't do that. I will say, I care about your heart and

I am so glad that you remain a part of this profession.

So thank you for doing that. Everyone has shared something

that we take away. You know, I don't know about we, but I know

we. I hear the pain. I hear the difficult exchanges with people

where you're just like, wow, why is that even a thing?

How did that happen? And at the same time, I hear even when

we're sitting here saying why are we having this conversation

thirty, forty, fifty years later?

Ann, you make my heart just happy. I know where Penny is at

for the long haul. She's one of those people and I could look at

her and just know there were right things to do, you know?

Angela tells us about her commitment to being positive and

letting faith be a grounding point. I mean, these are things we

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can all feel, carry and then do something to make changes.

You know, when I hear that thirty, forty, fifty years, it also

is a stark reminder to me, that we also are not going to have the

fix in three, four, five days.

It is a long haul commitment for each one of us, you know to

do this work together. I mean, I welcome at all of us. We have

this microcosm here of society. That is our professional group

tonight. And you know, the work that we have to do is going to

take a lot of time and a lot of sustained energy for us to get to

that place where somebody says sustainable change.

So I just, you know, I just really want to thank each one of

you for what you brought forward. I want to thank some people on

here who didn't have their chance to share. That doesn't mean you

weren't sitting here, rolling some tape in your head or feeling

something in your own heart and space.

So you know, I just thank you for taking the time and trusting

this space as a place where you can be this evening with these

stories. I also want to say, Aaron, Sandra, we saw your

suggestions over there. We're seeing everybody's suggestions

over there.

We're taking those with us. We're taking them to the task

group. We're taking them to the board. Angela, she was waiving.

So I just want to make sure you do hear that commitment from the

board. I mean, you heard that from Melissa but I'm reinforcing

that and I know there are board members on this call. Board

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members recent board members and there are current board members

that will continue, you know, to be commit today this work.

I ask you to trust us with that. I have no doubt this is a

group that will call us on it if we're falling short so I count

on that as well.

That is okay. Brandy, you have a beautiful person sitting on

your lap so I wanted to point that out as well. And I truly, truly,

want to say thank you for, I don't know. I look forward to next

week's conversation as well.

This is a hard conversation, you wish you didn't have to have

but we do and I welcome it. So for those can join us next week,

it will be good to see you there too. So any ways, so just thank

you for all of your time and everyone, thank you for walks us

through this evening, Katie and all of the people behind the scenes

back there, I know you're hiding.

>> Thank you, Wendy! Before we close, we want to remind you of

next week as Wendy just stated. We'll be back here. A lot of the

questions came up relating to education and academia.

So we can continue that dialogue especially if you didn't have

a chance to speak tonight. There's a lot of very passionate

traumatic stories that were shared and I just want to acknowledge

that hurt and pain.

As we're trying to give everyone a chance to speak, please know

that we hear you. I personally felt a lot of that from having my

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own story.

So we do thank you. Thank you for being transparent with us

and for listening.

So we're going to close out. Don't forget to tell your

students, peers, faculty members to join us next week and look for

the e-mail as well as updates on our web page.

>> Thank you!