Post on 14-Apr-2018
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Invetiative Reort or Nebraka
Lawmaker and Ocial
Live Action spRINg 2013
Inhuman:undercover in americas
late-term abortion industry
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Investigation overview
General InformatIon
Location: Abortion and Contracetive
Clinic o Nebraka
1002 W Miion Ave
Bellevue, NE 68005
800-737-3845
htt://www.abortionclinic.or
transcrIpt 1
Date: 12/7/12Time: 8:00 A.M.
our story
Woman i a little over 22 week renant.
transcrIpt 2
Date: 3/28/13Time: 3:30m
our story
Woman i unure o her etation, but about 20
week.
Contents
Clinic Fact sheet ...........................................1
Invetiation Trancrit 1 ............................5
Invetiation Trancrit 2 .........................23
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live actioninvestigative report for arizona 1
Clinic fact sheet
Abortion Clinic: Abortion and Contracetive Clinic o Nebraka
Location: Bellevue, NE
Abortionit: LeRoy Carhart
Hitory: For the ake o brevity, LeRoy Carhart extenive record will be limited
to characteritic examle. Carhart i currently bein invetiated in the
death o Jennier Morbelli, who uered maive internal bleedin ater he
erormed a third-trimeter abortion.1 In 1993, Carhart romied the di-
rector o health o Nebraka that he would bein to adequately rotect hi
atient rom inection and rerain rom aliyin atient record. Carhart
alo areed to to talkin on the hone or allin alee durin abor-
tion.2 In 2001, the Univerity o Nebraka terminated Carhart adjunct
roeorhi when it wa dicovered that he wa donatin the remaino babie he had aborted to their reearch deartment.3 Jut our year
ao, our ormer worker admitted to ain o medical care, abortion
counelin, and recrition even thouh they were untrained; one had
only a hih chool diloma.4
Thee witnee and tetimony rom atient who were coerced into il-
leal, ot-viability abortion romted undercover invetiation by O-
eration Recue into Carhart ractice o aliyin etal ae. Characteriti-
cally, Carhart ultraound technician maniulated the renant invetia-
tor onoram to ive an aarent youner etal ae. The abortion o a
ot-viable baby wa cheduled with Carhart. The clinic did not obtain a
econd hyician conent, a mandated by Kana law, and the abortionwa cheduled or 25 week etation, three week later than an abortion
could leally be erormed in Kana.5
Nebraka state
Law:
An abortion may be erormed at or ater 22 week only i the woman lie
i endanered or i her hyical health i everely comromied. Nebraka
enal code 19.01: A eron commit criminal homicide i he intentionally,
knowinly, recklely, or with criminal nelience caue the death o an
individual.
Federal Law: Born Alive Inant protection Act. Inant born alive ater an abortion are
eron rotected under the law.
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investigative report for arizonalive action2
the InvestIGatIon
Live Action went undercover twice in LeRoy
Carhart inamou Nebraka late-term abor-
tion clinic. Our invetiator aid they heardthat Carhart wa the bet to o to or a late-
term abortion. Ultraound examination eval-
uated them a 22 and 26 week renant, o
Carhart recommended that each invetiator
travel to Maryland, where he could oer abor-
tion on demand u to 27 week.
horrIfIc abortIon procedures
busIness as usual
Carhart ha lon been known to ht hard or
hi rily abortion rocedure. Twice he haone to the sureme Court to demand the
lealization o hi avorite method o artial-
birth abortion, wherein a baby i motly deliv-
ered and then hi kull cruhed and brain vacu-
umed out.6 so Carhart callou direard or
our invetiator babie come a no urrie.
He caually decribed the abortion a a hot
into the etu to enure that [i]tll be dead or
two day beore you deliver it. He told her the
injection alo caue the baby to [et] ot, like
muhy [make quihin ound], o you uh
it throuh so it like uttin meat in a crockot. I thi method i unucceul, he would
have to remove the baby in iece, uin, he
joked, a ickaxe, a drill bit.
Both invetiator aked i Carhart abortion
hurt the babie. He relied by arbitrarily in-
ventin hi own arameter or when a etu
eel ain. so, ater about two to three week
ater birth I think then they have retty ood
knowlede o ain, but beore that Im not o
ure that they do. In act, there i wide con-
enu in the cientic community that babieeel acute ain by 20 week o etation.7
callous KIllInG en masse
Chillinly, Carhart obviouly know he i kill-
in babie. He conitently decribed abort-
in the baby. When our invetiator aid hecould eel her baby kickin, he relied noncha-
lantly, Yeah, it movin now; ater 20 week, it
hould be. In hi mind, thouh, abortin thi
livin, movin baby wa till better than the in-
convenience o wonderin where your child i
and what haenin to it. Not to worry, Car-
hart aured our invetiator: robably within
an hour o the injection you houldnt eel it
movin anymore.
Carhart alo boated to Live Action that he had
erormed twenty-ome-thouand abortion
over 24 week, the oint o viability dened
by Roe v. Wade. Coniderin that only 10% o
women who et an abortion ater 13 week
do o out o concern or their health, the vat
majority o thee abortion were robably er-
ormed on healthy babie and mother.8
lyInG to patIents about
abortIon rIsKs
Finally, Carhart blatantly lied to both our inve-
tiator about the daner o hi abortion, co-ercin hi atient into a riky rocedure. Ive
never had to end anybody to the hoital.
Le than a year beore, hi ta were orced
to call 911 ater he injured a woman in an abor-
tion.9 Our econd invetiator aked Carhart i
he hould call an ambulance i he oe into
labor in her hotel room. With callou dire-
ard or her aety, Carhart relied, dont call
911 youre onna be within 10 minute or 15
minute o a clinic, jut et in the car. Call me.
Jut ix week earlier, he had inored hi a-tient Jennier Morbelli attemt to contact
him beore he went into cardiac arret and
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live actioninvestigative report for arizona 3
died at the local hoital. More injurie rob-
ably remain undocumented, a Carhart in-
truct hi atient, I you eel that omethin
i wron and you need to be een do not o to
the ER, call and we will meet you at the clinic.10
He would rather endaner hi atient than re-
veal hi malractice to emerency hyician.
Carhart alo told our invetiator, [T]he rik
at 36 week doin an abortion are till about
le than 10% what they are with childbirth.
Actually, abortion ater 20 week reult in 6
time more maternal death than childbirth.11
assessment
LeRoy Carhart delivered ale medical inorma-
tion to hi atient, renderin them unable toive inormed conent to a danerou abortion
rocedure. He alo dilayed ro nelience
by intructin hi atient to drive to hi clinic
while in labor, rather than callin an 911. The
Nebraka Deartment o Health and Human
service mut immediately uend hi licene
and conduct a licene invetiation.
endnotes
1 steven Ertelt, Abortion Doc Who Killed Woman
in Failed Abortion Under Invetiation, Lie
New, March 11, 2013, htt://www.lienew.com/2013/03/11/abortion-doc-who-killed-
woman-in-ailed-abortion-under-invetiation/
2 Nebraska v. Carhart (1993) htt://abortiondoc.
or/w-content/uload/2011/12/Carhart-ub-
lic-doc-le1.d.
3 Abortion provider Fiht Univerity Dimial,
The New York Time, March 13, 2001, htt://
www.nytime.com/2001/03/13/u/abortion-
rovider-ht-univerity-dimial.html.
4 Leia Baez-Mendoza, Ex-emloyee Aid
Abortion Foe, World-Herald, Auut 28,
2009, htt://omaha.com/article/20090828/
NEWs01/708289932.
5 Illeal Fetal Ae/Viability Decetion schemeUncovered By Oeration Recue At Tiller
Abortion Clinic, Oeration Recue, January
11, 2009, htt://www.oerationrecue.or/
archive/illeal-etal-aeviability-decetion-
cheme-uncovered-by-oeration-recue-at-
tiller%E2%80%99-abortion-clinic/
6 Stenberg v. Carhart, 530 U.s. 914 (2000); Gonza-
les v. Carhart, 550 U.s. 124 (2007).
7 Colleen Malloy, statement to the Houe, Com-
mittee on the Judiciary, District of Columbia
Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act,
Hearin, May 17, 2012, htt://www.nrlc.or/
abortion/Fetal_pain/TetimonyColleenMal-
loyHR3803.d.
8 Lawrence B. Finer et al, Reaon U.s. Women
Have Abortion: Quantitative and Qualitative
perective, perective on sexual and Re-
roductive Health 37, no. 3 (2005), 110118.
9 Cheryl sullener, Moan, scream Heard
From Botched Abortion Victim in 911 Call,
Lie New, May 23, 2012, htt://www.lienew.
com/2012/05/23/moan-cream-heard-rom-
botched-abortion-victim-in-911-call/
10 steven Ertelt, Wa Woman Killed in Botched
33-Week Abortion Told Not to go to ER? Lie
New, February 14, 2013, htt://www.lienew.
com/2013/02/14/wa-woman-killed-in-
botched-33-week-abortion-told-not-to-o-to-
er/
11 Bartlett, L. A. et al. (2004). Rik Factor or Le-
al Induced Abortion-Related Mortality in the
United state. Obtetric & gynecoloy, 103 (4),
72937
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investigation transcript 1
listen to audio onlinewww.LiveAction.or
transcrIpt 1 playbacK
00:00 preparInG to enter clInIc
00:07 enterInG clInIc
06:43 InstructIons from receptIonIst
37:46 called for ultrasound
37:37
clInIc-1: How you doin?
Woman: good, how are you?
clInIc-1: good. How ar alon are you?
Woman: Oh I dont know.
clInIc-1: OK, Ill do your ultraound then.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: Did you have an ultraound yet?
Yeah, he can come in.
Woman: OK. Uh, no, I havent had one yet.
Well, I mean, I had one a lon time ao.
clInIc-1: [inaudible] thi one.
38:25
clInIc-1: OK, o ahead and ho u there. I
wa told that you miht jut want to do the
ultraound today only, or-
Woman: Well, becaue I didnt know that you
had to have all the money riht u ront-
clInIc-1: Yeah.
Woman: so, I miht have to, like, ater the
ultraound my riend wa onna o and ee i
he can ather it u.
clInIc-1: OK, how much money do you have?
Woman: Uh, I think I jut have like $300.
clInIc-1: You do? OK. Did you talk to
anybody about that?
Woman: Uh, yeah, I talked to her.
clInIc-1: OK. so are you thinkin about-
Woman: she aid that what I could do i like
et the ultraound, talk to the doctor, and in
the meantime, hoeully come u with the
money, like my riend onna hel me et the
money while Im talkin to the doctor beore
or whatever.
clInIc-1: Yeah. OK, well let ee how ar
alon you are rt.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: Caue i you didnt have anultraound, it could be le than you think, o-
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: That will brin your rice down.
Woman: OK. Cool.
clInIc-1: We went by your lat eriod, riht?
Woman: Yeah.
39:28
ultrasound proGresses
Woman: What doe your hirt ay?
[lauGhter]
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clInIc-1: so did you have eriod all throuh-
Woman: All throuh what?
clInIc-1: prenancy, or?
Woman: UmI hadmy eriod have alway
been o, it eem. Theyve otten more
reular in the at coule o year, but yeah I
had ome like bleedin, in the beinnin.
clInIc-1: OK.
Woman: That why it took me a lon time
to even know I wa renant becaue I jut
thouht I wa oin back to the irreular
eriod.
clInIc-1: That haen a lot.
Woman: Really?
clInIc-1: Yeah, a lot o women will have
ottin, theyll think their eriod i jut bein
weird that month or two-
Woman: Yeah. I jut ound out like a coule
week ao that I wa renant. And I wa jut
like, really? Like I thouht I wa oin back to
the whole irreular eriod thin.
frIend: surrie, urrie, yeah.
Woman: I know.
41:34
Woman: What i that?
clInIc-1: That the head.
Woman: Oh, okay.
clInIc-1: [inaudible]
Woman: That a bi head.
clInIc-1: Yeah.
42:06
clInIc-1: Im onna do one more
meaurement becaue it meaurin at about
22 week and that over our limit, o-
Woman: What do you mean?
clInIc-1: We o only u to 21.6. so i it 22
week we wont be able to ee you here.
Woman: Oh no. I dont think Im 22.
frIend: I thouht you were earlier than that.
Woman: I thouht I jut became 20.
frIend: (ih)
clInIc-1: I thi your rt child?
Woman: Mm-hm.
clInIc-1: I you were too ar, we do have a
dierent clinic, it i a little ar thouh, it over-
Woman: I it in Nebraka?
clInIc-1: No, it in Maryland.
Woman: Oh wow.
clInIc-1: Yeah we o out to do over 21.6, o.
Woman: In Maryland?
clInIc-1: Ye. There are other clinic near
thouh that, I think Iowa oe arther, Im not
ure which art o Iowa it i, you miht want
to look into it.
Woman: so Im denitely over, or youre not
ure?
clInIc-1: Im not ure yet.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: Im onna do ome more
meaurement, tu like that.
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frIend: Yeah hoeully we dont have to o
to Maryland, that would really uck.
clInIc-1: That the bad thin about when
youre arther alon, mot o the time itll be a
coule week over what you think, or le.
Woman: Why?
clInIc-1: It jut the way it i. Caue mot
eole dont think about their eriod, it not
accurate o-
Woman: Riht.
clInIc-1: I have eole comin in thinkin
they were 12 week, they were 24.
Woman: Wow. Oh my oh.
frIend: Like, why doe it to thouh at 21?
Like, it jut eem, you know-
clInIc-1: It the law. It ued to be u to
24 I believe, but they chaned it, caue the
rotetor, inature-
Woman: Why?
clInIc-1: They aid that ater 22 week, the
etu can eel ain.
Woman: Can it?
clInIc-1: Um, I really dont know. That what
they roved, but, I mean, Ive never een a
etu cry at 22 week, o. I mean, you dont
know i it eel anythin.
frIend: I dont even know, like can they-it
jut kind o a cary thouht. Like what i they,
you know, what i they came out and could
cry or omethin or moved or omethin.
clInIc-1: Yeah I know that women havemicarriae at thi oint, I mean, you can
have micarriae at any oint in renancy,
but they aid at thi oint it could oibly live
outide the womb, o that why they aid that
abortion hould not be an otion or-
Woman: so it jut u to each tate then?
clInIc-1: Mm-hm.
Woman: so that why it arther in
Maryland?
clInIc-1: Maryland oe to 27 week.
Woman: Whoa.
clInIc-1: And eole can have no roblem,
becaue ome women dont know that theyre
renant until later, o.
frIend: Haha, like you.
clInIc-1: It hould till be an otion or thoe
women. You cant jut lan on havin a babyin two month. And there a lot o minor too
that are renant 26, 27 week, o.
frIend: Yeah but there wouldnt be like an
iue thouh i he had an abortion, you know,
the baby, it would be taken care o, riht? It
not onna-
clInIc-1: Oh well what we do i we do an
injection the rt day, o that numb the baby,
it wont eel anythin. And we do that jut
becaue, um, I ue we dont have to but we
jut do it becaue it better that way.
frIend: Yeah.
Woman: And then, how do they take it out
then?
clInIc-1: We ive you a medication, that
onna induce labor.
Woman: Oh, o I have to like labor it out or
like birth it?
clInIc-1: No, you will be edated. Youre notonna be comletely alee, but you will be
relaxed enouh that you wont realize what
oin on. Um-
frIend: That a bi head, (Removed or
privacy).
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investigative report for arizonalive action8
46:59
Woman: I there a oibility like durin the
rocedure, or them to come out movin or
anythin?
clInIc-1: Mm-mm. Like I aid rt we numb
it o, baically, the medication we ive on
the rt day make it heart to, o even i
it didnt, that laminaria that we ut in there, I
dont know why it haen, the etu jut die,
by the econd day. But we till do it becaue
that way, we make ure that it not onna
move at all aterward.
Woman: What would haen i it did thouh?
Like what-
clInIc-1: Um, it jut die intantly.
Woman: Like ater it come out?
clInIc-1: Mm-hm.
Woman: so it jut die?
clInIc-1: Ye. It wouldnt urvive at all.
Woman: But would like I wouldnt et in
trouble, like it wouldnt et tranerred to like
the hoital or omethin, riht?
clInIc-1: No.
frIend: Well Im ure the doctor could take
care o that, (Removed or privacy).
clInIc-1: Yeah, you wont have to worry
about it, that art. That why it uch a bi
deal when we have hiher etation, we jut
have to be lookin and bein really careul
with the eole who are tryin to et u or
anythin, even i we didnt do anythin. They
want u hut down, o.
Woman: What do you mean?
clInIc-1: Um, they alway make u torie
about u doin abortion at later etation.
They ay that we x the etation on the
ultraound, and they came in the-
frIend: Oh, i it like thoe eole, like we
were comin in and they were like, yellin
at u on the way in? I didnt know what they
wanted.
Woman: geez.
clInIc-1: They jut dont undertand. They
dont need abortion becaue theyre too old.
so they jut dont know what it like to be in a
ituation where you jut eel like you have to
have one. Tell me i Im hurtin you.
Woman: OK. I it movin a lot?
clInIc-1: You want to ee?
Woman: What?
clInIc-1: [inaudible] the creen. That the
heart riht there.
frIend: Oh it beatin.
49:29
clInIc-1: You can baically ee everythin
riht now. It jut-caue riht now, here thetoro.
Woman: What i it? Do you know i it a-
clInIc-1: I cant tell on thi ultraound.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: We can tell ometime i it ater
when it come out.
Woman: Oh OK. so but-jut, jut one more
to make ure thouh. I dont, Im not, oin
to like, i there wa that liht chance that it
came out and it wa till movin, like, I dont
et in trouble, riht?
clInIc-1: No.
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Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: That never haened beore
either.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: so I wouldnt worry about it.
Woman: I aw thi article online where-
frIend: My hand hurt.
Woman: I aw thi article online where like a
woman had an abortion like, I think later than
me, he wa like 24 week or omethin, and
like, the baby actually urvived. And o like,
he wa like orced to take care o it. And like,
ever ince I read that article I, like, oh my god,can you imaine?
clInIc-1: I think I read that one too.
Woman: Yeah.
clInIc-1: Um, it wouldnt be able to urvive,
becaue when it come out, it jut cant
breathe, you know, it too mall to like urvive
without any machine or anythin. so-
Woman: so but the doctor would take care o
it, like I dont have to worry about-
clInIc-1: No.
Woman: OK, cool.
frIend: Well I think that jut omethin you
could let it, you know, it jut onna die, riht,
o jut let it-
clInIc-1: Yeah I dont know how that would
haen, becaue the clinic not a hoital,
mot abortion clinic are not in the hoital,
o i it urvived, unle the mom wa onnabe like, Im takin it home, it imoible that
he onna make it home with the baby alive.
Woman: Riht.
clInIc-1: so, I think that wa jut a made-u
tory.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: It ay youre meaurin at 22week, o-
Woman: sorry, you aid it i howin 22?
clInIc-1: Yeah.
Woman: Really?
frIend: Yike.
clInIc-1: Ill have to o ak around i there a
clinic cloer. Where do you live?
Woman: Um, well, I dont mind travelin, it
jut, I would want, like, i it oible to talk
too, but, i it your clinic thouh? Like it
another one?
clInIc-1: The one in Maryland, ye, it not
our clinic, but our doctor oe there every
week, o it the ame doctor.
52:14
Woman: OK, caue I heard that he the betto o to. And o that why it would, like, I
would eel more comortable oin to hi, you
know, like i that where he doe them too,
then ye, I would want to o there.
clInIc-1: Yeah, OK.
Woman: Becaue I dont want to take that
rik.
clInIc-1: Um, what we can do i the cot I
believe i onna be about the ame, I can o
nd that or you. You never had a child beore,o you have no obliation that we need to be
aware about?
Woman: OK.
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clInIc-1: Um, you have to think about the
cot that it onna be or you to travel that
way, and you need to tay in a hotel, it onna
be a two-day rocedure.
Woman: I have amily, I have amily there. so,
I could-
clInIc-1: Um, do you know where?
Woman: They live in like Betheda, i that
Maryland?
clInIc-1: Were in germantown.
Woman: OK. How ar away i that?
frIend: We can goole it or omethin.
clInIc-1: Um, that like 30 minute rom DC
I think.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: But we jut want to make ure that
you continue to wait, jut in cae becaue
we dont want anythin to haen and then
youre not there, or cloe enouh to et there.
Woman: OK. Like, I mean, I can make it
haen, o.
clInIc-1: OK. Um, we can ive you number
or nancial aitance, i you want to try, jut
ather the money and well o rom there.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: Um, aain, o ahead and make your
aointment o we have everythin ready or
that clinic.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: And then, um, Ill ive you the
number now, o that you can call, and
then you can call u when you et your
aointment. OK?
Woman: OK. I it oible to, i, can I till
meet with the doctor today?
clInIc-1: Yeah. You can wait or him, he
hould be here any time.
Woman: OK, yeah, caue that way at leat I
can talk to him about everythin beore I o
out and do all that.
clInIc-1: Yeah. OK.
Woman: I that ok?
clInIc-1: Yeah, that ne. Hell talk to you,
and i you et out to thi clinic, hell talk to you
there too, o you miht a well jut meet now.
frIend: Jut do it.
Woman: Exactly, while Im here.
clInIc-1: Yeah. All riht, let me o ak about,
becaue we uually chare or the ultraound,
but ince your i dierent, Im onna o ak.
Woman: Oh OK. Thank you.
clInIc-1: I do, I will take a urine amle now,
o i you want to come with me Ill take you
to-
Woman: OK. should I take thi cliboard with
me?
clInIc-1: Yeah you can brin it. Youre onna
o u to the [inaudible]
Woman: OK.
54:52 Woman does urIne test
clInIc-1: Yeah it oin to be more, it
$3,200.
Woman: Oh my oh, OK.
clInIc-1: Thee are two number I athered
or you, actually let me write down another
one. Here that.
Woman: OK.
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clInIc-1: Your aointment will be or
Monday (inaudible).
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: I do need you to in thi jut date,initial and in.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: And I do need to collect or your
ultraound, but i you do come in or your
aointment you wont have to ay or it
aain.
Woman: OK. How much i the ultraound?
clInIc-1: It $100.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: so i you jut take a eat, Ill make
ure they have you meet with the doctor.
Woman: OK, thank you. And do I jut kee
llin out thee orm?
clInIc-1: Um, you can, but were not oin to
collect thoe ince youre not tayin here.
Woman: OK. Thank you.
01:07:01
frIend: Hi
carhart: Hi, are you waitin or me?
Woman: Ye, are you the doctor?
carhart: Yeah I am.
Woman: OK. Let ee what weve ot. Are
you (Removed or privacy)?
frIend: Hi, Im (Removed or privacy).
carhart: (Removed or privacy)? You aid
(Removed or privacy) thouh?
frIend: (Removed or privacy).
carhart: Oh, (Removed or privacy) what
you o by?
frIend: Yeah.
carhart: OK. We needed you lat week.
Woman: You what?
carhart: I aid we needed you lat week.
Woman: I know. Well, I didnt know I wa thi
ar alon.
carhart: Im ure. Um, OK. All riht, um,
where are you rom? (Removed or privacy)?
No.
Woman: she rom-
carhart: Youre rom (Removed or privacy)?
frIend: Yeah.
carhart: OK. Well, youre only three hour
[away?] No, maybe our.
Woman: Yeah we, were actually jut crahin
with a riend out here, jut-
carhart: Are you rom (Removed or
privacy) alo?
Woman: No, no I wa born in (Removed
or privacy). Um, but I lived in (Removed or
privacy)-
carhart: But I mean, are you rom (Removed
or privacy)?
Woman: Yeah, I wa born and raied in
(Removed or privacy), o.
carhart: All riht.
Woman: I like moved around a lot.
carhart: But youre in Lincoln riht now?
Woman: Yeah.
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carhart: I et it. OK. so. How can I hel
you?
Woman: so, they aid that um there alo
a lace in Maryland that we could o to that
doe them arther I ue.
carhart: Uh yeah, we o, we have, or
elective we can o 26 week, and or
indication we can o anythin. so, um, but
youre, youve ot a month to et that out o
the way. It et more exenive every week.
Woman: Yeah, I aw that. But you would be
my doctor who would do it, riht?
carhart: In germantown, riht.
Woman: OK.
carhart: And we could tart you a early a
thi Monday.
Woman: A thi comin Monday? OK.
carhart: Um, he aid you need hel with
nancin?
01:09:05
Woman: Yeah I miht. I mean, I can etmoney toether throuh like riend and tu.
carhart: OK. And there alo an
oranization that can hel, theyll ive you the
inormation or the NAF.
Woman: OK. so, what kind o rocedure
would I have to et then? since Im-
carhart: It would be the ame thin wed
do here, um it jut that it would be, um, a
combination between a D&E and an induction.
We would try to induce you to jut deliver the
baby.
Woman: What do you mean, like, Id have to
like, birth it?
carhart: Yeah. That the aet thin or
you, and we do it with edation, o you
robably would not be too aware o the bodily
roce. We would do two day o uttin
laminaria in your cervix to oen it, and then onthe third day we would do the delivery.
01:09:57
Woman: How do youhow do you do it?
Like, caue he aid, the nure aid omethin
about a hot. I that
carhart: We do a hot into the etu to end
the renancy the rt day. And that the
ame thin we would do here.
Woman: OK.
carhart: Or even, i you were anythin over
18 week, it the ame thin we would do
here. 18 week or over, we would do here.
Woman: Doe it hurt them?
carhart: Um, well youre onna be alee,
and not eel it, and the medicine that ut
you to lee i like 100 time more than the
amount wed ive the etu, o yeah, no, I
dont think he onna eel it.
Woman: OK.
carhart: Um, uh, it very, Im not ure, I
mean, I totally diaree that the etu eel
any ain with a reular D&E, at 22, 21 week.
Like, the bet way I can exlain i that you
know they have the ain recetor reent,
but it like a motion icture, youre watchin
a movie, you can have the camera and the
rojector, but i you havent ot a creen or
it to lay on, you dont ot a movie, and thateentially the way it i. The recetor are
there but the brain unction i not there, or it
not connected, you know?
Woman: OK. Um.
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carhart: You know, they circumcie babie
without any anetheia at all. And or year
theyve done that.
Woman: Yeah.
01:11:24
carhart: It, um, they dont hardly
reconize the ain ater theyre born or the
rt coule week. so, ater about two to
three week ater birth, then theyre, I think
then they have retty ood knowlede o
ain, but beore that Im not o ure that they
do.
Woman: OK. Um, and then how do theycome out?
carhart: Well, i everythin work riht,
they come outyou jut deliver them and
they come out ne. I mean, i, i um, or ome
reaon that doent haen, then we have to
take them out in iece, but the baby already
dead o there not, you know, there not
oin to be any ain rom that.
Woman: Do they, doe it ever come out like
movin or anythin?
carhart: No, it dead. Itll be dead or two
day beore you deliver it. Well know that
rom the ultraound.
Woman: OK.
carhart: so, weve never-no, You know, all
the tu out there on the internet i to kee
you rom havin, to make thi choice, o i
there wa any truth to it-
frIend: That robably what reakin you
out.
Woman: Yeah I know.
carhart: What that?
frIend: The internet.
Woman: I did ome reearch and I howed
her the article, there wa like a woman who
had an abortion like, I think it wa 24 week?
Or omethin, and, but, it ailed, and o like,
the baby ended u like urvivin, and hewa like orced to take care o the baby. And
o I read that and when I wa llin out the
aerwork today-
carhart: It didnt have any injurie or
anythin?
Woman: I think it wa like mentally
handicaed or the ret o it lie, but like, I,
when I wa readin today in that thin, it aid
like ailed abortion or omethin-
carhart: I dont know how that would beoible to haen-
Woman: And o that why like, ever ince
then, Ive been like oh my oh, you know?
carhart: I mean it deend on what you
mean a ailed abortion. A ar a-
Woman: I mean like bein born.
carhart: A ar a endin the renancy,
a ar a endin the renancy, um, back 15
year ao beore we tarted uin the etalinjection, there wa alway a oibility that
ater they did the labor or a coule day the
e-the child would be born. Um, but there
would be nothin to damae, it, it jut onna
be born. But now with the injection, we know
that, ye, we, Ive had one that delivered
beore we thouht they hould, but the etu
had been dead or a day and a hal already. so,
it not onna move. You know, it jut out.
Eentially, the abortion over like 15 minute
ater we tart the rocedure. And then the
next two day are jut dilatin your cervix and
makin it o it come out without makin it o
you cant have uture renancie.
Woman: OK.
carhart: so.
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01:14:18
Woman: What would haen i it did come
out movin? Like would I et in trouble?
carhart: Well any, it, i you come to u, itimoible, caue I wont do anythin ele
until I know the etu i not alive. And i it not
alive-
Woman: Like continue with the ret o it?
carhart: It int onna move. Well no, I
mean it, Im u, were u in the twenty-
ome thouand number o atient over 24
week, and there hant been one movin or
two day beore we nihed yet. so I would
think that to be movin at the time o deliverywould be jut abolutely imoible.
Woman: OK.
carhart: I it come out movin then
we have to reucitate it and end it to the
hoital, I mean that the law.
Woman: You do?
carhart: Ye. Everybody doe, I mean,
that, it a livin thin then, that ot, but
that-
Woman: so then I would have to take care o
it? Like and raie it?
carhart: Um, no, you have the riht o, ame
a any mother, within 72 hour o birth you
can ay it not my roblem, and in it o.
Woman: so by oin, o in Maryland, that
the law?
carhart: Here it the law. Every tate in
the United state, that the law. I the baby iborn, once it born, i it born alive, then you
have to have it.
Woman: Oh my od. Really?
carhart: But it int onna haen. I mean
it like you tellin me that you know, uh-
Woman: so you would have to reucitate it?
carhart: I it, i it were born alive, but it,there abolutely zero oibility that onna
haen.
Woman: OK.
01:15:50
carhart: Becaue i it int dead we arent
oin to o on with the abortion.
Woman: OK.
carhart: Itll tay alive inide o you, but I
havent had one that done that yet. I mean,
ometime we have to reeat the injection on
the econd day, but that only been like three
time in the twenty year that Ive been doin
thee.
Woman: so the injection i what you tick
inide the, the-
carhart: Throuh your tummy into the
etu.
Woman: Throuh my tomach. And doe the
needle hurt me?
carhart: You? A little bit.
Woman: Yeah. A little bit?
carhart: But you robably wont remember
it. Mot eole end u akin me what the
Band-Aid or the next day. so.
Woman: OK. Um, and then, um, will I eel it
like dyin? No?
carhart: It not even onna eel it dyin. It
jut, the heart low down and it jut to.
Woman: Caue I already eel it like kickin
and movin.
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01:16:36
carhart: Yeah it movin now, ater 20
week it hould be.
Woman: so I wont eel it like movin oranythin, like, that it.
carhart: No, robably within an hour o
the injection you houldnt eel it movin
anymore.
Woman: And then, um, o and then you on
the econd day you take it out and then what
haen to it ater?
carhart: It oe, we have to either, i you
want to have it cremated, then you have to
arrane that with the uneral home, and in
Maryland that like 20, uh like 400 or 450
dollar to et them to cremate it and ive you
back the ahe. Um, i we, i you dont chooe
to do that, then wed end it to be, it oe in
with medical, what they call medical body
art, ame a i you had an arm amutated at
the hoital, or omethin, cancer in the le
and they have to remove the le. Then it jut
et cremated with that and buried. It ha to,
it controlled by the tate, we have to have a
licened, reulated carrier that ick it u andtranort it to the lace.
Woman: so you dont have anythin at the
clinic thouh to do that? Like Id have to o
outide o the clinic i I wanted to bury it or-
carhart: I you want to bury it then you have
to o outide the clinic, yeah.
Woman: OK. Do a lot o women do that?
carhart: Maybe, no, maybe 5%. Maybe 1%.
somewhere about, yeah, robably about 5%.
Woman: OK.
carhart: But I mean, it not chea, and it
uh-
frIends: We can talk about it (Removed or
privacy).
carhart: And thoe thin, thoe thin you
uh, have to do.
Woman: OK.
01:18:19
carhart: Well, the ooner you make your, I
mean, you have to decide whether you want
to have a baby or not. I you dont, that the
choice, i you do, then your choice i what
youre onna do with it, whether youre onna
raie it, ut it u or adotion, or ut it in
oter care, thoe are the three choice youhave.
Woman: I dont want any o that, I dont
want-
carhart: so, and that, there nothin in
my mind at all wron with that. In act, it uh,
you know, rather than endin the ret o
your lie wonderin where your child i and
what haenin to it and everythin ele,
it better to know that you know, it can be a
memory in your heart and wih it wa dierent
but know that it couldnt be.
Woman: Yeah. so, um, the nure had
aid omethin about tayin at a hotel or
omethin like that. What-
carhart: Yeah, there, you can et on
priceline and et hotel or $50 a niht to $55
a niht
Woman: OK.
carhart: Around germantown or
gaitherbur area. But youd need the money
to et there, you need the money or the
hotel, and money or ood or three day.
Woman: OK. And you aid there wa a lace
that could hel me with that?
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carhart: Huh?
Woman: You aid that there wa a omethin
they could hel me-
carhart: I dont know, they do hel eolei you qualiy, I dont know what your income
tatu i or anythin like that.
Woman: OK.
carhart: They need to know what your
houehold income and exene are and then
they there a national undin aency that
can hel omewhat. But theyre not oin to
be able to come u with the whole thin, or
whatever-
Woman: And how many day would I need tobe there?
carhart: Um, we need to tart early on
Monday mornin, Tueday and we nih on
Wedneday, o you need to robably be there
3 niht. You need to o there um sunday
niht, no, yeah, sunday niht, Monday niht,
Tueday niht, and then leave Wedneday
aternoon. I you make your fiht home
on Wedneday, make it a late a oible,
otherwie tay till Thurday mornin.
Woman: OK. Or jut leave Thurday. Am I
onna be like in a lot o ain aterward? Do
you know?
carhart: You houldnt be in any ain.
Woman: OK.
carhart: And there are no retriction
aterward. Excet or nothin in your vaina
or 3 week.
Woman: OK.
01:20:24
carhart: A I tell everybody, that include
ner, riend, and ruit.
[lauGhter]
Woman: Oh my oh. OK. Do you have any
quetion or him?
frIend: It u to you. so youre ayin weneed to et there-how ar, what did he ay
you were? How lon do we have, you know?
carhart: 22 week. she ha a month to et
there. But the dierence between, I dont
know there, but when we were here, the
dierence between 22 week and 26 week
wa like the dierence between $2,025 or
$3,000, I dont know their rice and maybe
$6,000 or $7,000 o, yeah there time, but
the money, it oe u on an averae o $1,000
er week. Until youre 29, and then it oe uby $2000 a week, but without a reaon we
couldnt do it at 29 o.
Woman: OK.
carhart: OK?
Woman: And how jut o I know, like how
lon have you been doin thi, like a lon
time?
carhart: Oh I jut ot here. [lauhter]
Woman: Well I mean like, you know.
01:21:35
carhart: since 1970, I did my rt abortion.
Woman: OK. And you ee a lot o women that
are a ar alon a I am?
carhart: Yeah Im one o the 4 eole in
the country that do all o the later abortion,
anythin over 24 week-
Woman: Why wont more doctor do them?
carhart: Well mot o the tate wont allow
them to do them. There only Colorado,
Nebrak-no, Iowa, Maryland, and, I g
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ig g ii i Iw, otherwie Id
be there intead o Maryland caue it a lot
cloer or me to o over there.
Woman: so it eem like youre the number
one rovider.
carhart: Well retty much, we robably do
more than twice a many a anybody ele.
01:22:23
Woman: Yeah I ooled about thi clinic and
I aw that you were o raied, like oh he the
bet, and o that why when the nure had
aid you know we have a clinic in Maryland I
wa like okay, Ill o there.
carhart: Yeah.
frIend: I wih it jut wouldnt be o ar, your
tuid eriod.
Woman: Exactly, I thouht I wa 20, I know. I
only thouht I wa 20 week.
carhart: I dont know a ar a, Ive had
eole come rom arther than thi by bu to
Maryland, by lane, and by, fyin, i you can
et, but the trouble with ticket thi time oyear, Chritma, it, it fiin imoible.
frIend: Yeah.
Woman: so what the exact lat, like, what
the cut o to make an aointment by? Like i
I cant et it thi comin Monday, what i the
cut o?
carhart: Um, well there, you can call u
and make the aointment, and then i you
cant come, jut tell em you cant come.
Woman: OK.
carhart: And then we can jut rechedule it
or the next Monday. But then were onna be
cloer two week to Chritma, the week o
Chritma, and week o New Year were not
onna be there, o. You have thi week and
next week.
Woman: OK.
carhart: But till the ooner you can et
there the better it would be or everybody.
And even thouh the rik at 30 week doin
an abortion, uhh 36 week doin an abortion,
are till about le than 10% what they are with
childbirth, till they o u every week. so at
20, 24 week, it till hundred o time aer
than oin in at the end o the renancy.
Woman: And Ill be able to like conceive in
the uture?
carhart: Hoeully, yeah. I mean I cant
uarantee anythin, but the chance o havin
to have a D&C that require a hyterectomy
which i about the only reaon you couldnt
conceive in the uture i le than 1 in 20,000
or omethin.
Woman: OK.
carhart: And that the national averae.
Weve never, Ive never had to end anybody
to the hoital with my atient, o.
Woman: Oh really.
01:24:25
carhart: And the Chritin gilbert thin on
the internet wa not my atient. I ended u
eein her in the h
Woman: Who Chritin gilbert?
carhart: Oh i you o on the Internet
eventually youll nd it, he wa a 19 year oldmentally handicaed irl rom Texa that
Dr. Tiller had oerated on, and he haened
to come back to the clinic on a day that I
wa coverin or him, but it wa our day
ater, he had what called ot-artum hel
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investigative report for arizonalive action18
yndrome, which haen very, veryyouve
heard o eclamia with women
Woman: Yeah.
carhart: pre-eclamia, eclamia, well i ithaen beore delivery the cure i delivery,
and it uually i never a roblem, but i it
haen ater delivery, nobody ha been cured
rom it. And it a, ome kind o an immune
reaction rom your body to the etal tiue
that wa in there, that you know, wa there.
so and even ater the etu i delivered, there
till etal cell in your blood rom 4 to 6 week.
so i you develo a reaction to it, there jut
no way. Uually by ettin the etu out, then
it to, the blood to minlin, and you et
better riht away. But i it haen ater the
etu i already out, then there nothin ele
to take out to make you better. They can treat
you with all kind o teroid, but nobody ha
urvived it yet.
Woman: so what haened to her?
carhart: she died.
Woman: Oh wow.
01:25:59
carhart: so, um. But they were, they were
not uet with Dr. Tiller, who wa her doctor,
they invited him to eak at her uneral. so-
Woman: Did they et uet at you?
carhart: No theyre not uet with anybody.
But the Anti jut decidin to blame me
or it, becaue Tiller dead, why blame him.
(lauh)
Woman: Riht.
carhart: so-
Woman: Wow.
carhart: All riht, well I otta o, whatever
choice you make i ne-
Woman: OK.
carhart: But um the only thin I can ay iyour oin to terminate, the ooner the better.
Woman: OK.
carhart: Honetly, um it about a 20, a 20
hour drive there, i you ot a car thatll make it
that ar, robably the bet thin to do-
Woman: Cheaer.
carhart: And i you dont, you can rent a car
or 6 day or, or a weekly rental around here
it robably about $200, $240.
Woman: OK.
carhart: And then you dont have to worry
about whether itll make it or not, it a hell o
a lot cheaer than, actually the cab are there
or a coule o day will run you a coule
hundred dollar, $10 each time you head to
the clinic, and robably $30 to and rom the
airort. so-
Woman: OK, OK.
carhart: so um to me that, thati I didnt
o every week, I would drive in a heartbeat
becaue it, it like 6 hour o fyin time, each
way and it et-
Woman: And you do that every week?
carhart: I do that every week, yeah.
Woman: Oh my oh.
carhart: I leave here sunday mornin
about ve in the mornin, and I et back onWedneday niht at midniht.
Woman: so do you live there?
carhart: No I live here.
Woman: Oh OK.
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01:27:31
carhart: I have a hotel room there-
Woman: Oh my oh, yeah.
carhart: Which you can et ood hotel
on priceline, uh, either in germantown or
gaitherbur. I ut gaitherbur in rt at $50
at 3 tar, it tarted at 3 1/2 tar worked out.
Woman: Riht.
carhart: And i you dont et anythin, add
germantown and then o to $55.
Woman: OK.
carhart: Youll nd omethin decent.
Woman: OK.
carhart: Dont, Dont o below 2 1/2 tar
thouh.
Woman: OK. It et a little creey?
carhart: Caue then it end u at the Red
Roo Inn and tu.
Woman: OK.
carhart: But even o the Red Roo in arelike $70-$89 or o. I you want there, you in
u there but I dont-
Woman: Riht.
frIend: We want you to be comortable-
carhart: Excue me.
frIend: Im jut ayin to her that we want
her to comortable
carhart: Well it wa a leaure to meet ya.
Wa that (Removed or privacy)?
frIend: Well (Removed or privacy), but you
can call me (Removed or privacy)
carhart: And that what your reer
(Removed or privacy), or you reer
(Removed or privacy)?
frIend: (Removed or privacy) ne.
carhart: Oh OK. good to meet you.
Woman: good to meet you.
carhart: Um, i you call that number youre
till oin to et u. so call u caue we make
all o their aointment.
Woman: OK.
carhart: It my oce we run rom here, and
I jut o there a coule o day.
Woman: OK. Thank you.
carhart: All riht, thank you.
01:28:44
carhart exIts offIce, team exIts offIce
Woman: Well, I dont know, do we need to do
anythin?
frIend: I dont know.
carhart: Did you ay or the ultraound?
Woman: Yeah.
carhart: Theyll credit you- (inaudible)
clInIc-3: Can yall jut have a eat, she on
the hone and then Ill have her call you u
Woman: sure, OK.
01:30:35
clInIc-2: All riht weetheart Im jut oin
to take all o your inormation you ave u
over here, I jut need an email addre o I
can email you intruction to our clinic in
germantown.
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investigative report for arizonalive action20
clInIc-3: Do you have an email addre?
Woman: Yeah, no.
clInIc-2: You dont have one?
Woman: I know it weird.
clInIc-3: I totally undertand that caue I
dont do that.
Woman: OK, OK. Can I call back?
clInIc-2: Yeah Ill jut rint one and ive it to
you.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-2: No roblem. OK i you jut want
to have a eat, Ill o ahead and write thi all
done, the time and date, and et everythin
et u or you. And make ure we o over
everythin ele with the hotel and tu like
that.
clInIc-3: Youre fyin in thi next Monday?
clInIc-2: Youre comin in next week not thi
week riht?
clInIc-3: she comin in a oon a oible.
Woman: Well I mean, yeah -
frIend: We need to look at aointment and
(inaudible)
clInIc-3: (inaudible)
Woman: I till have to look at fiht and tu.
clInIc-2: Yeah (inaudible). so 22 week youll
tart out there o youll need to be there
Monday throuh Thurday (inaudible).
clInIc-3: You can o online and et reatrate on Hotel.
frIend: I think Im oin to-
Woman: Yeah he aid jut ue priceline.
clInIc-3: Yeah priceline, that the one we do
our, when we do, we et much better deal.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-3: Yeah and ue um gaitherbur-
Woman: Yeah gaitherbur or germantown.
clInIc-3: Oh he told you already.
Woman: Yeah he told me everythin.
clInIc-3: (inaudible) lauh
Woman: (lauh)
clInIc-2: And we jut ak that you have
omeone with you durin your tay
Woman: Yeah that no roblem.
clInIc-2: OK yeah we jut reer you have
omeone with you day or niht. OK, all riht,
I will alo ive you the addre and hone
number to our germantown location, that
way when youre in the area you can call them
or more intruction like where to ark, and
theyll ive better direction caue I dont
know anythin over there (lauh).
Woman: Oh OK.
clInIc-2: But Ill have all thi tu written
down or you, and then Ill rint it o or you
and then Ill ive it all to you.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-2: OK, thank weetie
Woman: so how lon will it-
clInIc-2: Jut like 5 minute, I have to write
down real at
Woman: OK, do you know what time it i.
clInIc-2: Uh ten oclock.
Woman: I jut have to et to omewhere
oon-
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live actioninvestigative report for arizona 21
clInIc-2: No I comletely undertand.
Woman: OK.
01:33:00
Woman Grabs Water to drInK
01:42:28
clInIc-3: OK o thee are jut about,
rotetor, youve already met ome-
Woman: Yeah on my way in.
clInIc-3: same rule aly, we dont allow
ba or ure with cell hone in them,
OK, you can brin a mall ure but nothin
uer (inaudible) No cell hone, becaue you
wouldnt want omeone to take a icture and
end it ya know. so I can till remember when
Dr. Tiller year ao, when omeone aid, look
at the icture I took, and he realized, not that
he cared about himel, but the condentiality
o everyone ele, o rom that oint on it wa
no cell hone in the clinic.
Woman: Yeah denitely.
clInIc-3: Yeah o hoto ID, you mut havethat already, ok, Ill let you take over-
clInIc-2: Yeah Ill take over, uh thee are jut
thin to o over. Make ure uh thin that
you dont brin in, cell hone, ame thin
here. No cellhone or ure or thin like
that-
Woman: OK.
clInIc-2: Um thi one riht here, thi ide,
thi i number to hel with undin i you
need hel with undin.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-2: Um NAF i one o the mot
common one we ue. Um but like we aid it
i a hard number to et ahold o, becaue it i
nationwide, there a lot o eole callin. so
it like a radio contet.
clInIc-3: (inaudible)
clInIc-2: Yeah but um, it jut like one o
thoe radio contet, you kee dialin until
you hear an actual eron on the hone not a
recordin.
Woman: OK
clInIc-2: And thee are alo abortion
number, theyre number to hel with
undin alo
Woman: OK
clInIc-2: Thi i the addre or the
germantown location and an actual hone
number. Call them when youre in town
Woman: OK
clInIc-2: And um, did they tell you the rice
o what it oin to be?
Woman: Ye
clInIc-2: OK, o jut to make ure. OK?
Woman: OK, i that all I need?
clInIc-2: Yu, that all you need
Woman: Thank you o much
01:44:20 Woman exIts clInIc
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live actioninvestigative report for arizona 23
investigation transcript 2
listen to audio onlinewww.LiveAction.or
transcrIpt 2 playbacK
Woman enters clInIc
Woman checKs In at front desK
Woman uses restroom
Woman fIlls out paperWorK
20:40 nurse brInGs Woman bacK for
ultrasound
21:35
clInIc-1: Ill have you lay down u here.When wa your lat ultraound?
Woman: Uh, it wa early in the renancy o
it been a real lon time. Do you need me to
take-
clInIc-1: Um, I jut need your belly
uncovered.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: so you can jut lit that u.
Woman: OK. I would have tried down or
you. You eem nice enouh.
clInIc-1: (lauh) Well, youll have to
anyway, when the doctor come in.
Woman: Oh, true.
clInIc-1: Luckily, um, youll have motly irl
in the room.
Woman: Oh, OK.
clInIc-1: Excet or the doctor. OK. go ahead
and lay down.
Woman lIes doWn
clInIc-1: Um, we tried to et a hold o you
or undin, did you et a hold o all the und,
or-
Woman: No, I didnt et a voicemail or
anythin.
clInIc-1: We miht have had the wron
number or omethin.
Woman: That OK, thouh, I wa able to, I
wa able to et it. The ex-boyriend helin.
clInIc-1: Oh, ood.
Woman: so.
clInIc-1: You never had a C-ection.
Woman: No. Never delivered. Hoe I never
have a C-ection.
clInIc-1: Yeah that wouldnt be un. Althouh
it not a bad when youre on the table, but-
Woman: That true. It the aterward art, I
meanthouh I had one riend, the anetheia
didnt work, and he elt the C-ection.
clInIc-1: Oh no. That one o my
nihtmare. I dont ever wanna have urery
and all alee, caue I dont wanna, what i I
can eel it all-
Woman: And wake u to earin ain
(lauh).
clInIc-1: Or not even bein able to wake u
and, you know.
Woman: Or that.
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investigative report for arizonalive action24
clInIc-1: And then with everythin you eel
the whole thin.
Woman: Oh, yeah.
clInIc-1: That would uck. Hoeully yourenot arther than what we can do.
23:49
Woman: Doe it look like I am?
clInIc-1: so ar it doe, but Im onna do at
leat 3 dierent meaurement.
Woman: OK. What do we do i I am.
clInIc-1: Well there, uh, nothin in the area,alon that ar, there are clinic, there one
in Colorado, which would be the cloet to
you, um there one in New Mexico which i
arther, and there one in germantown which,
our doctor work there, o-
Woman: Oh. Oh, OK. I wouldnt mind, I mean,
eein him. I dont mind travelin.
clInIc-1: Yeah, um, we have atient there
every week, and we can et you in or,
actually, i you are able to manae to travel,
um, sunday throuh Wedneday next week.
Woman: Oh, OK, reat. I the doctor here
today thouh?
clInIc-1: Uh, yeah, he will be-
Woman: so I could ak him my quetion
now beore I travel all the way to-
clInIc-1: Yeah.
Woman: Where i germantown?
clInIc-1: It in Maryland, DC area.
Woman: I knew it want in germany, but
(lauh).
clInIc-1: Yeah. It would be crazy to travel all
the way there. Im ure that thi i leal there,
you know.
Woman: Yeah. Well, and i he here then I
can actually it and talk, and know who Im
meetin intead o travelin to another tate
where you dont know who thoe eole are.
clInIc-1: Yeah.
Woman: And youre nice, o I trut you.
clInIc-1: (lauh) We have a lot o atient
call in. We are the one that make the
aointment or germantown clinic.
Woman: Oh, OK.
clInIc-1: We have a lot o atient call in
and, you know it alway weird to call a, a
lace that, you know you read it, you aw it on
the Internet, and youre callin to do a 4-day
rocedure and you ay thouand o dollar
or it, you dont really know who youre talkin
to, o-
Woman: Yeah. That why, i I meet him
today, I can know and eel much better.
clInIc-1: Yeah. That would be an advantaeor you.
Woman: How lon have you worked here?
clInIc-1: It onna be 3 year, on sunday.
Woman: 3 year. On sunday. Wow.
clInIc-1: It been a lon time.
Woman: Do you like it?
clInIc-1: Yeah. It never borin. There
alway omethin. patient are entertainin.
Woman: (lauh) I that a nice way o ayin
theyre ecial?
clInIc-1: Yeah. Mot o it, you know,
renant women. What can you exect?
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live actioninvestigative report for arizona 25
Woman: Yeah. Nothin. Jut otta be oen
or everythin, I ue.
clInIc-1: Yeah.
Woman: What your avorite art about thejob?
clInIc-1: Um, well, really, like in relation to
the atient?
Woman: Anythin.
26:27
clInIc-1: I like the act that we do everythin
here, we dont have like one ecic job that
we do, we jut rotate.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: The doctor like it that way, that
way we can, that way i omebody miin
theyre eay to be relaced.
Woman: so you can do ultraound, ront, the
actual urery.
clInIc-1: Ye, everythin.
Woman: Wow. so doe that mean you have anurin deree?
clInIc-1: Um, no, we have a nure here, but
he doent require a CNA or anythin like that,
um, I ot a (inaudible) throuh them, they tet
u here and tu like that.
Woman: Oh, OK.
clInIc-1: so baically, a lon a we can
learn the baic, um, and be able to rovide
medication, (inaudible), all that tu.
Woman: Riht.
clInIc-1: It ivin me a hard time,
(inaudible).
Woman: I dont know how you can tell what
anythin i on that creen.
clInIc-1: It i harder the bier it et,
becaue you dont (inaudible) the whole
creen, but um, baically you et ued to like,
eein what what.
Woman: Doe your ultraound machine, you
have to like, et a new one every year?
clInIc-1: No, unortunately, we need a new
one, but they are over $10,000.
Woman: Oh, wow!
clInIc-1: We dont make that much money
here, we hardly make any to tay oen, o-
Woman: so a $10,000 machine i a luxury.
Clinic-1: Yeah, I wih we could jut et it.
It would make our live eaier, but thi one
work jut ne. It jut old.
Woman: Are you rom Omaha?
clInIc-1: Um, no, Im rom peru, I moved
here a coule year ao.
Woman: Oh, OK. Did you move to o to
chool, or jut to try omethin new, or-
clInIc-1: Actually, I wa oin to chool
down there, and there wa a roram or
tudent, or collee tudent to come u
here and work or a ew month, um, jut a an
exerience, ome o u, a lot o eole learn
Enlih down there, o they wanted to come
over here and ractice their lanuae kill. so
I ined u or it.
Woman: And you never let.
Clinic-1: Yeah, I met my huband here, and it
jut, I didnt o back.
Woman: Do you have any kid?
clInIc-1: I eel too youn or kid.
Woman: I hear ya.
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investigative report for arizonalive action26
clInIc-1: Althouh Im not, I mean Im at the
ae when women have kid, like 26 or o. It
uually when mot tart wantin to have a
amily.
29:32
Woman: Are you 26?
clInIc-1: Mm-hm.
Woman: Im 27.
clInIc-1: Yeah but you are, ee, you really
dont, you werent lannin on havin a baby,
were you?
Woman: No. No. But I thouht it would keeu toether. You know, you think that, oh, we
have roblem, but maybe a baby will x it.
so we tried, like oh, I ue well kee it. And
then he let.
clInIc-1: You think that you are not doin
thi or him any more.
Woman: Noe. Noe, doin it or me.
clInIc-1: OK. Well you are too ar or u,
youre 26 week.
Woman: 26? Wow.
clInIc-1: so, Im oin to call the doctor,
let him know about it, o he can talk to
you, and ee i we can et u omethin or
germantown i you are OK with that.
Woman: Ye. But I can o ahead and meet
and ak my quetion today?
clInIc-1: Yeah.
Woman: OK, reat.
clInIc-1: You can talk to him. Ill jut let him
know that youll wanna do that, o that way,
o-
Woman: I he on hi lunch break?
clInIc-1: Uh, he jut ot back-
Woman: Jut kiddin.
clInIc-1: -rom another clinic, actually, he
jut traveled back, o he robably i on hibreak, you know.
Woman: Well, I brouht a book, caue I
know, you know, you et ued to waitin
around lace.
clInIc-1: Yeah, we alway tell everybody
to o ahead and brin omethin to read
throuh jut in cae.
Woman: 26, wow. so, at 26 week, i it very
develoed, at thi oint?
clInIc-1: Um, baically ater 16 week or o,
um, yeah.
Woman: so what doe that mean, like, it
ully develoed?
clInIc-1: Yeah, baically.
Woman: Oh.
clInIc-1: Um, it able to be alive outide the
womb, but the ercentae i not very hih, u
to 24 week or o.
Woman: so i I went into labor like, jut went
into labor, the baby could urvive.
clInIc-1: It could.
Woman: (lauh)
clInIc-1: Yeah. I you didnt have any renatal
care, thouh, I dont know that there would be
omethin wron that you dont know about,
and o that the bad thin about when you
have a lanned renancy.
Woman: Riht. Wow. But 26 week, o it ha
a ace at thi oint. And hand, and eet. OK,
all riht.
clInIc-1: It hard to think about, but-
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live actioninvestigative report for arizona 27
Woman: No. Kinda interetin, I ue, but
yeah. I it very bi? Caue you aid it wa too
bi or the creen, i it like-
clInIc-1: Well, that becaue the creen
tiny, but um, robably, the head robably
about like that ize, omewhere like there.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: Um, it only about like thi ize.
Woman: Wow. so it look like a baby.
clInIc-1: It doe. It, well it doent exactly
look like a baby, caue it till like, you know
it kin i not comletely, like all the-
Woman: Oh, OK.
clInIc-1: -like, you know every inle layer,
but um, it baically doe look like a baby.
Woman: Wow. And are you there when they
do the abortion? I ue you wont be or
germantown. Never mind.
32:38
clInIc-1: Um, well I have been, but we never,
becaue when I tarted workin here, the lawalready aed lower than 23 week, I think or
22, I cant remember.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: It wa a lon time ao. But now we
only o u to 20 week and 6 day.
Woman: Oh, OK.
clInIc-1: But it really doent, it jut mall
there, very mall.
Woman: Very mall, OK.
clInIc-1: And Ive been to it. And we do an
injection on the rt day o the baby doent
eel anythin, um, when the rocedure
haen.
Woman: Oh.
clInIc-1: Yeah, baically we to it heart on
the 1t day, o when on the 4th day it come
out it not alive.
Woman: Oh, o the hot i what kill the
baby.
clInIc-1: Mm-hm.
Woman: OK. Do you tick it jut anywhere?
You tick it-
clInIc-1: In your belly. In your belly button.
Woman: Oh. Oh (hudder).
clInIc-1: You wont eel that. Youll jut eelthe rt rick on the, on the to o your kin,
and then that it.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: Like the ret i jut throuh the-
Woman: Oh. Everythin ele.
clInIc-1: Throuh the uteru. You dont have
any nerve there, o you wont eel that art.
Woman: so I wont eel anythin.
clInIc-1: You wont eel that.
Woman: OK. Will the, will the baby eel it?
clInIc-1: No. The mot likely, it ha numbin
olution in it too. so it robably jut onna
eel like it lowin down.
Woman: Oh, the hot ha numbin olution?
OK. so when you tick it in the baby, do you
tick it in like the head?
clInIc-1: He doe it, I think he doe it in the,like in the chet area, o it oe into the heart,
um, it really, I dont know how he doe it, but
he doe it with the ultraound and he make
ure that he oe into the riht ot, becaue,
um, I know that i you do it wron, there can
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investigative report for arizonalive action28
be comlication becaue o amnioamniot
amniotic fuid, (lauh) blah, you know what
Im talkin about.
Woman: (lauh) I do, I hear ya. I hear ya.
clInIc-1: He ha o much exerience.
Woman: What kind o comlication?
clInIc-1: Um, Im not ure, I think they can
be, becaue it uh, numbin olution, and alo
it ha another chemical that to to the heart
rate, o I dont-
Woman: Oh.
clInIc-1: I mean, it never haened to him,
but-
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: There alway rik with every
rocedure.
Woman: Riht. Riht. Wow. Will it take the
baby very lon to die?
clInIc-1: Um, uually u to 20 minute.
Woman: Oh, that quick. OK. And will I eel
like, death am or anythin?
clInIc-1: No, youll jut eel um, lack o
movement.
Woman: Oh, o when the baby to movin,
I know that it dead. Oh, OK.
clInIc-1: Uually you have a lot o movement
durin the day, or you know like, every other
hour.
Woman: Well it wa kickin while I wa llin
out the orm (lauh).
clInIc-1: Yeah, o youll to eelin that ater
it done.
Woman: Oh, all riht.
clInIc-1: Um, o let me o talk to him really
quick.
Woman: OK, do you want me to tay here?
clInIc-1: Ill have you in thi or me, jutinitial thoe 3 and then in, um, and then Ill
have you come u ront with me.
Woman: 26 week. Wow.
clInIc-1: I need your inature riht here.
Woman: Oh, orry.
35:32
clInIc-1: The rocedure actually moreimle than what it ound like, it jut a lot
o roce becaue we want to make ure
that you dont have any roblem doin it,
like dilatin your cervix o you dont have any
tear or anythin like that, o that why it
take o lon, but-
Woman: How do you et the baby actually
out?
clInIc-1: Um, he will do, he onna ive
you medication to induce labor, o we kee
you like 3, 4 hour on medication and then,
by the time youre done with all o that, the
renancy will come out almot on it own, o
that baically what we wanna do, jut or it to
come out, you dont have to uh or anythin.
Woman: Oh, I dont? I jut et to lay there?
(Lauh)
clInIc-1: He dilate your cervix.
Woman: Enouh thatand then doe the
doctor hel it out?
clInIc-1: I he ha to, i you jut, i it been
too lon durin the day, or youre in ain, or
i your water break and you jut, you know,
becaue can bleed out and all that.
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live actioninvestigative report for arizona 29
Woman: No, we dont want that.
clInIc-1: I not, um, itll come out, like, on it
own.
Woman: But the, but the baby dead.
clInIc-1: Yeah.
Woman: OK.
clInIc-1: By the time that that haen, it
hould be dead.
Woman: so it jut like deliverin a normal-
clInIc-1: Baically, excet you dont have
to do anythin, and the ain i robably a
hundred time le than what you would do iyou were in labor.
Woman: OK. Oh, o it like a normal delivery
but with a dead baby.
clInIc-1: Yeah, baically.
Woman: Oh, OK. All riht, thank you. Oh,
orry.
Woman and clInIc WorKer leave room
clInIc-1: Do you have omebody that can
travel with you?
Woman: Yeah. I have a riend.
clInIc-1: And we can ive you your
medication.
Woman: Oh, riht.
clInIc-1: We like to edate our atient, that
way theyre not a uet durin it.
Woman: OK. But my riend will need to come
to germantown, riht?
clInIc-1: Yeah, he need to come with you.
Ill have you take a eat riht here.
Woman: Anywhere in articular?
37:13
Woman WaIts
another clInIc WorKer enters room
01:14:00
Woman: Oh, thank you.
clInIc-2: He, um, hell be in here in jut a
minute.
Woman: Oh, no roblem, thank you.
01:14:05
dr. carhart enters room
01:17:14
dr. carhart: (Removed or privacy)?
Woman: Ye, hi.
dr. carhart: Hi, Im Dr. Carhart, how are
you?
Woman: Nice to meet you.
dr. carhart: It ood to meet you too.
Woman: Thank you o much, oh, you want
me to it here?
dr. carhart: Oh no, youre ne where you
are. Um, a coule quetion. You drove all the
way rom south Dakota?
Woman: I did. A riend and I road-tried it. It
want too bad. About 3 hour.
dr. carhart: Yeah. My dauhter oin
u there tomorrow. she, um, he breed and
how hore and the vet he ue i rom
south Dakota.
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investigative report for arizonalive action30
Woman: Oh, wow.
dr. carhart: From, uh, sioux Fall, actually.
Woman: Breed and how, that ound
acinatin.
dr. carhart: Yeah, but it, it a ull-time
job, o-
Woman: I can imaine.
dr. carhart: We have, or he ha about 80
hore, o-
Woman: 80 hore? Where do you kee 80
hore?
Dr. Carhart: Oh we have a arm.
Woman: (lauh)
dr. carhart: We have a lare barn, a ew
maller barn.
Woman: Ha he alway been into hore?
dr. carhart: Yeah, ince he wa about 5.
I mean we, the amily wa in it when, but he
ot it tarted when he tarted wa, robably
ridin when he wa 3, actually.
Woman: Wow.
dr. carhart: Then he tarted howin
when he wa 5.
Woman: Well that excitin. sound un.
dr. carhart: so, um, theyve ot thi down
a a etal indication, there nothin wron
with the baby that you know o, i there?
Woman: Nothin that I know o.
dr. carhart: OK, I dont know where that
came rom or how that ot in here, but Ivenever had a etal indication that want within
2 or 3 day o what he thouht he wa, o I-
Woman: Doe that mean, etal indication-
dr. carhart: Mean there omethin
wron with the baby and that why youre
terminatin.
Woman: Yeah. No.
dr. carhart: Jut, jut ure-
Woman: purely thi i what I wanna do.
dr. carhart: And here (couh) we cannot
do it, but in Maryland we can do it, in act the
only lace where it can be done riht now
i Maryland, um, Boulder, Colorado, and uh,
Albuquerque.
Woman: That it?
dr. carhart: That it in the country, theonly 3 that o over 26 week.
Woman: Wow, OK.
dr. carhart: Um, otherwie the otion are,
you know, arentin or adotion, or any o
thoe.
Woman: No thank you.
dr. carhart: OK (lauh). Um-
Woman: That why I wanted to meet withyou thouh, caue I heard, ince you were
here, and Ill ee you next week.
dr. carhart: That ne, um, we tart on
sunday in sioux Fall. U, youre in sioux
Fall.
Woman: Youll come and home viit?
dr. carhart: (Inaudible) I will come to your
houe and do thi, in sioux Fall. That would
be really ood, I cant o over 14 or 16 there.
Um, but we um, need to have you tart, at 26week, or actually no, we could do Monday
mornin, i you want to.
Woman: OK.
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dr. carhart: Um, the mechanic are, and we
can et you et et u with NAF or hel with
or thi all, about undin-
Woman: Yeah, but I think I manaed to ull
the money toether. I dont know now at 26
week.
dr. carhart: 26 I think it like $6500 or
omethin like that.
Woman: Oh, OK.
01:20:21
dr. carhart: A lot o dierence. Um, but
they, they can hel you with the rice, and
I could be o by $2,000 or $3,000, I dont
know. I know-
Woman: so dont tell them you quoted me
thi (lauh)
dr. carhart: You can tell them but theyll
lauh at you becaue they know that I dont
have a clue (lauh).
Woman: OK, OK, air enouh (lauh).
dr. carhart: Um, caue I dont, I never
quote rice. so, um, but we certainly can et
you et u with National Abortion Federation
and ee what undin they can come u with.
All deend on your houehold income and
the irl know how to hel ure that out.
Woman: Oh, OK.
dr. carhart: Um, but we would need you
there rom Monday throuh Wedneday niht.
Woman: All riht.
dr. carhart: The quetion whether you fy
or drive, um, it almot cheaer and eaier,
even i you rent, how old are you?
Woman: 27.
dr. carhart: OK, o you can rent a car here.
Woman: Yeah.
dr. carhart: It would be better to rent a car
here and drive there and back with a rental-
Woman: Wow. OK.
dr. carhart: -than fy in and rent a car
there. You have to have a car there. And I jut
aid $300, $292 or 4 day or the car, and it
wa almot a much a the airlane ticket wa.
Woman: That a fyin ticket, yeah (lauh).
dr. carhart: And um, o I would call like the
local rental car and jut et, you dont need
to tell them youre oin to Wahinton orwhatever, but you jut tell them you need a
car, make ure it ha unlimited mile.
Woman: OK. All riht. Unlimited mile.
dr. carhart: You have a credit card, riht?
Woman: Ye.
dr. carhart: OK.
Woman: And I have a riend who will be
oin with me, o.
dr. carhart: OK, that erect. so it an
eay drive, I mean, I would ay you wanna
lit, you can do it in 24, 23 hour, ull o in
sioux Fall.
Woman: OK.
dr. carhart: You robably, you almot, no
you can o acro 90, cant you? Youre riht
cloe to 90. so you can eaily, yeah itll be 23,
24 hour or you, the ame a it i rom here.
Um, o, uh, I would think that would be aerto end one niht on the road, o you dont
et in there o late that youre tired and you
have an accident or omethin. But, um, the
rocedure i actually no dierent than 20 or
21 week here, it jut, we have to do an extra
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investigative report for arizonalive action32
day o dilation, it take 3 intead o 2 day o
dilation, o youd be there Monday, Tueday,
and Wedneday, OK?
Woman: And dilation i, i what?
dr. carhart: We have to ut, to oen u
your cervix o the renancy can come out.
Woman: Oh, OK, o the baby can actually et
out o me.
dr. carhart: Yeah, we, it will, youll deliver,
caue we dont, we try to do it intact becaue
the damae i, and the injurie and the
inection and everythin to your body are o
much le i youd delivered, than i wed o in
and take it out in iece, o um, what we dothe rt day i do an injection, that ut you
very comortable, but the doe or you, the
riht doe to make you comortable ut the
baby rooundly to lee.
01:23:33
Woman: Oh, OK.
dr. carhart: And then we do another
injection o, o medication into the baby o it
doe not wake u.
Woman: OK, o rooundly mean like, all the
way?
dr. carhart: Well no, well, ye, it will
not, but that rom the econd injection,
no, becaue i, i it wa on lie uort, i it
want attached to you, which i comlete lie
uort, it would die rom the rt one.
Woman: so, a baby at thi ae, what am I, 26
week?
dr. carhart: 26.
Woman: Could not urvive? I it wa
delivered?
dr. carhart: I it came out, oh yeah, it
robablyrobably could, robably. It would
be a 50/50 thin, robably.
Woman: Oh, oh, OK.
dr. carhart: But were OK, we can do by
law in Maryland, we can o to 28 week, o.
Woman: Oh, OK. so Im OK.
dr. carhart: Yeah, youre, youll t within,
that what I ay, we can do electively, we can
do thi electively in-
Woman: great. great.
dr. carhart: That what I wa ayin.
There only 3 tate where we can do thielectively.
Woman: Colorado-
dr. carhart: And 2 other, yeah. Colorado,
New Mexico, and you can call them, but I
know Warren rice-
Woman: Whoe rice?
Dr. Carhart: The Boulder, Colorado, will be
almot double what our are, robably.
Woman: Doctor, Dr. Warren?
dr. carhart: Warren Hern.
Woman: OK, Warren Hern, OK.
dr. carhart: And then the 2 irl in
Albuquerque, which i really about the ame
ditance rom u rom you, i, I dont know
anythin about their ricin, they, they tarted
workin with Dr. Tiller, ater I wa already
down there with him, o-
Woman: You worked with Dr. Tiller?
dr. carhart: Yeah, or 12 year, 11 year and
a hal.
Woman: Wow.
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dr. carhart: Till he wa hot, and o, and
they were, one o them worked with him or
7 year, one o them or 5. so we worked a a
team, the 4 o u.
Woman: Oh, o you worked with the doctor
in Colorado?
dr. carhart: No.
Woman: No, oh, Dr. Tiller.
dr. carhart: Dr. sella and Dr. Robinon,
in Albuquerque. But Warren and I have been
riend or 22 year, or, god now, more than
that, almot 40 robably. seem like orever.
But the rik-
Woman: Are there, o there only our o you
that do-
dr. carhart: There are only our doctor
doin over 26 week.
Woman: Why are there only our?
dr. carhart: Caue nobody elell do it
(lauhin).
Woman: Oh.
dr. carhart: And there not that manydone, there robably not 500 eole over 26
week in a year that terminate in thi country.
Woman: so you, you dont ee a lot o
women like me?
dr. carhart: Well, aw our thi week.
Woman: OK, at 26 week?
dr. carhart: Or more.
Woman: All riht, o Im not unuual.
dr. carhart: No, not at all. Um, but that
only becaue nobody ele doe them and
they come to u, but you know, each o u
robably ee in the averae about 20 a month,
o that 80 a month, o maybe it 1,000 a
year that are done over 26, that may, I think
it like 2 or 300 that are over 30, o.
Woman: 2 or 300 over 30 week. Oh, OK.
dr. carhart: But theyre all becaue o etal
abnormalitie.
Woman: so no one chooin an abortion at
30 week who
01:26:14
dr. carhart: Not really, unle they have
a medical, Ive ot one irl that we have to
do thi about, he in heart ailure already
rom the renancy o were, were eein
her thi week here, and that who I thouht
maybe you were. But I think he onna tart
tomorrow, o. But anyway, the rocedure i
jut, um, ater we do the injection in the baby,
that take about 2 hour beore itll not, it jut
doe not wake u rom the medicine that
make you leey.
Woman: Oh, OK.
dr. carhart: And um, the we will ut
laminaria in your cervix o it tart to oen andwell tart out the rt day well end u with a
cervix about the ize o your thumb and well
ut little laminaria in that, OK?
Woman: All riht.
dr. carhart: By the next day thatll be about
an inch in diameter.
Woman: OK.
dr. carhart: And then well take them out
and ut in more, and the next day itll be aboutan inch and a hal, and then the nal day well
ut in more, and they end u to be about 2
inche, which i not quite-
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Woman: That bi? Im not ood with
meaurement. Like that. OK, o, and the
baby-
dr. carhart: Will come throuh, itll
comre down and come throuh that
becaue it not alive.
Woman: so when you ay comre down-
dr. carhart: Jutitet ot, like muhy
(make quihin ound), o youyou uh it
throuh.
Woman: so what make the baby muhy?
(Lauh)
dr. carhart: The act that it not alive, or
two or three day.
Woman: Oh, o Ill have a dead baby in me?
dr. carhart: For 3 day, yeah.
Woman: Will it tart to decay or omethin?
dr. carhart: No.
Woman: Oh, OK (lauh).
dr. carhart: Not, it very, very minimal i it
doe, becaue there no bacteria there.
Woman: Oh, OK.
dr. carhart: so it like uttin meat in a
Crock-pot, OK, it doent et, it doent et
broke, but it jut et oter, it doent et
inected or-
Woman: OK, o the dead baby in me i like
dr. carhart: It jut
Woman: like meat in a Crock-pot.
dr. carhart: pretty much, yeah, kinda
much.
Woman: All riht. All riht.
dr. carhart: In a low cooker.
Woman: Then what wa it that killed it?
dr. carhart: The injection that we do.
Woman: The rt one?
dr. carhart: The econd one.
Woman: On, the econd one, the econd one
that I dont et. I et the leein one.
dr. carhart: Itll o throuh your tummy,
but into the baby, and you wont et that
medicine. I the medicine ot into your blood
by accident, it the ame medicine that we
would ive you i you came in in heart ailure
in a clinic, o it would not hurt you at all.
Woman: Oh.
dr. carhart: so that, I dont ue the one, the
KCL, we dont ue that.
Woman: I dont know what KCL i.
dr. carhart: Um, it, well it jut the other
thin that eole ue. potaium chloride.
Woman: OK.
dr. carhart: Um-
Woman: so thi one, you tick it in like the
head?
dr. carhart: No, in the tummy, in the chet,
omewhere in the baby. Or i we can, even i
we ut it in the amniotic fuid, eventually it
et into the baby, it will work wherever, but it
take loner o we et like one le day o the
etal, the baby not bein alive.
Woman: I ee, o you tick the hot either
into the baby or into the ac and it will then,
like, inet it or breathe it in.
dr. carhart: (Inaudible) inet it. The
amniotic fuid that, that in and around the
baby i created by the urine rom the baby,
but then it re-drink that all the time and that
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what make the intetine, intetinal ytem
develo. so that, i the kidney are, i the
kidney in the baby are ailed and you dont
roduce the amniotic fuid then the whole
dietive tract never really develo.
01:29:26
Woman: That kind o acinatin.
dr. carhart: It all kinda (inaudible)
acinatin, yeah.
Woman: Wow. so the baby drink the
amniotic, OK, which i it urine (lauh).
dr. carhart: And it, I mean it come,
ome o it i lama rom, you know, rom the
initial, but mot o it i the urine that the baby
roduce and then it et reltered, but it all
terile, o you know there no bacteria there.
Woman: That, very dierent i I wa drinkin
my own urine (lauh).
dr. carhart: That would not be a ood idea.
Woman: No (lauh). That i not aealin.
OK, o i that on the rt day, there are 2
hot, and that i what kill the baby.
dr. carhart: And then well ut the
laminaria in.
Woman: And then you ut thi in. And then
will it, will it take very lon toto die?
dr. carhart: It, mot o the time it take
about an hour and a hal to two hour.
Woman: OK.
dr. carhart: sometime i we et a lot o it
into the circulation itll be 10, 15, 20 minute,
but that very, very rare.
Woman: OK, o a coule hour. Will I eel like
death am or anythin? You know-
dr. carhart: No, you wont eel anythin
like that.
Woman: OK, ood. Caue I eel it kick now.
dr. carhart: The medicine, no, yeah riht,
but actually, the medicine that we ive you
ut it to lee, where there are no, we
wont even ee etal movement when we do
anythin.
Woman: OK.
dr. carhart: Normally that, it a I aid,
when I mean rooundly alee, I mean it
deely anethetized.
Woman: OK.
dr. carhart: It would, without, i it want
ettin it oxyen rom you, it wouldnt live.
Woman: so i you, i it didnt et that rt
hot, what would haen then? That, that
leein hot?
dr. carhart: Yeah, I mean Ive done ome
where women cant have that hot i theyre,
it cant jut, you know, Im ure the baby eel
the needle tick - i the baby eel anythin
Woman: Oh.
dr. carhart: and I truly dont believe that it
doe at 26 week.
Woman: Oh, you dont think the baby eel,
OK.
dr. carhart: I dont think, you know, and
certainly doent eel anythin a ainul a
birth and you have every riht, we know he
ha to do that.
Woman: I birth ainul or a baby?
dr. carhart: I think o.
Woman: I dont know. I cant remember
(lauh).
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dr. carhart: Yeah, I cant either. And none
o them do, o nobody care.
Woman: so it would, it would tart, could eel
ain, the baby could eel ain at birth, but it
wont eel ain at thi oint? At 26 week?
dr. carhart: Well, we dont really think that
it eel ain at birth either, in, you know, today
in a lot o culture they do circumciion with
no anethetic at all, and the baby crie or
about a minute and then it to cryin.
Woman: Oh.
dr. carhart: I, I, you know-
Woman: What dierent about-
dr. carhart: I dont know.
Woman: I dont know, OK. OK, o that the
rt day, um, o the hot-
dr. carhart: And the econd day we take
out, I mean ater the 2 hot, then we are,
uually ut the laminaria in rt, and then
do the h