Post on 04-Apr-2018
7/29/2019 John Lennon II
1/5
John Lennon II?
From Allan Chamberlin from Curran, Ontario, Canada, who gave permission for his fullname to be published. In his letter, printedbelow, he makes points that Christians will
often encounter, i.e. that we cant know for sure, all religions are basically equal, weshould be openminded and tolerant, etc. His letter is reprinted(indented red text), with
point-by-point responses by Dr Jonathan Sarfati, showing that such typical claims areoften selfrefuting, and can be made only by ignorance or closed-minded rejection of the
unique claims ofJesus Christ.
Imagine no religion
All arguments about God could be ended easily. God is a mystery. No one could claim
exclusive knowledge of God and his ways. All could be free to honor God in their chosenway. Converting others to our(Gods) way of thinking could be ended.
The various religions of the world have much good counsel to offer. Do we need rules?Of course we do, without rules we would have no civilization.
The problem arises when one invokes the name of God as the source of ones beliefs.
Nobody can argue with God. You cant meet God face to face. God is a concept. You
cant see a concept. I have thoughts and you cant see thoughts. You cant see a mind.
An open mind entertains all possibilities. An open mind does not say I am right and youare in error. God can become the ultimate weapon in the hands of man. I can claim my
knowledge is Gods knowledge. I am now not responsible for what I believe. It is in
Gods holy scriptures so it cant be argued. I can claim God is on my side. I have justturned God into the ultimate weapon.
I believe in God, I just cant define God for you. God is beyond my explanation.
Respectfully, Allan
Imagine no religion
This would depend on what you mean. If you mean religion in the broad sense meaning
a world view that attempts to answer ultimate questions about life and the universe, theneveryone has a religion of a sort. For example, advocates ofHumanismandCommunism
and Nazism can be every bit as religious as any TV caricature of fundamentalists.
1
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/negative_17june2002.asp?vPrint=1#letterhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/negative_17june2002.asp?vPrint=1#letterhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/negative_17june2002.asp?vPrint=1#responsehttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/negative_17june2002.asp?vPrint=1#responsehttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/j_sarfati.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/j_sarfati.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/Jesuschrist.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/religion.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/religion.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/religion.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/communism.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/communism.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/communism.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/negative_17june2002.asp?vPrint=1#letterhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/negative_17june2002.asp?vPrint=1#responsehttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/j_sarfati.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/Jesuschrist.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/religion.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/communism.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/communism.asp7/29/2019 John Lennon II
2/5
But if you mean an absence of theistic religion, we can imagine only too well. We have
already seen the appalling human rights violations in atheistic Communist countries such
as China, Cuba and the former Soviet Bloc countries.
All arguments about God could be ended easily. God is a mystery. No one could claim
exclusive knowledge of God and his ways.
This is called agnosticism, and is itself a positive claim about Godi.e. that He is a
mystery. But how can you know that God is unknowable?
All could be free to honor God in their chosen way.
This is also nothing new. But you might like to consider, just for the moment for the
purpose of the argument, that God has indeed created us and therefore owns us, and has
told us how He wants people to honor Him. Then the most open-minded belief would
be that we have a moral obligation to do as He requires. It would be closed minded and
arrogant to decide to go ones own way.
The patron saint of such ecumenical thinking is Cain. Genesis 4reveals that while Abel
honored God in Gods way, by a blood sacrifice (as revealed by the blood sacrifice ofGenesis 3:14, and expanded on in later parts of ScriptureHebrews 9:22, without
shedding of blood is no forgiveness), and God was pleased. But Cain decided to
approach God with a bloodless offering, and God was notpleased. Then Cain
compounded his error by becoming the first murderer.
Converting others to our (Gods) way of thinking could be ended.
Why? This in itself presupposes an absolute moral value, i.e. that converting others to ourway is wrong. In your case it rebounds on yourself, since your letter is trying to convert
us to your way, i.e. that there is no way.
The various religions of the world have much good counsel to offer.
On what grounds do you call them good? And how so, when they contradict each other
on such minor things as the nature of God, mans destiny, and how to be saved (if
applicable)?
Do we need rules? Of course we do, without rules we would have no civilization.
Under a worldview founded upon evolution from goo to you via the zoo, why is this aproblem?
The problem arises when one invokes the name of God as the source of ones beliefs.
2
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=gen+4&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=gen+4&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=gen+3:14&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=gen+3:14&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=HEB+9:22&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=gen+4&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=gen+3:14&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=HEB+9:22&version=NKJV7/29/2019 John Lennon II
3/5
Rather, the problem arises when one tries to invoke absolute moral laws without an
absolute moral Lawgiver. Its precisely because the rules are made by our Creator that
they can transcend human opinion.
What is the alternative, if we are simply rearranged pond scum? How do you derive the
concepts of right and wrong from random mutations plus natural selection? Our moralsense would really be just the result of motions of atoms in the brain that happened to
confer some survival advantage.
Nobody can argue with God. You cant meet God face to face.
But the Christian claim is notthat we can reach up to meet God face to face, but rather
that He has reached down to meet us face to face. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is
the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature (Hebrews 1:3), andthat Jesus said, He who has seen Me has seen the Father ( John 14:9) and was right to
claim this. More on this shortly.
God is a concept.
This is an assertion, which frankly doesnt seem very open-minded to the possibilitythat God is a real Being.
You cant see a concept. I have thoughts and you cant see thoughts. You cant see a
mind.
So are you denying that minds exist? Actually, the leading philosopher (modal logician)
and Christian, Alvin Plantinga argued cogently that the evidence for God is just as good
as the evidence for other minds; and conversely, if there isnt any evidence for God, thenthere is also no evidence that other minds existsee God and Other Minds, Cornell
University Press, repr. 1990.
An open mind entertains all possibilities.
As the gifted writer and Christian apologist G.K. Chesterton (18641936) pointed out, an
open mind is like an open mouthonly good when it has something of substance to
chomp into. And its our experience that those who talk about open minds the most are
the most oblivious to their own biases (we all have them)in your case, a bias towardsagnosticism.
OK, what about the possibility that Jesus Christ really said what the Gospels claim He
said, and that He was speaking the truth? In particular, that He claimed to be God andsaid, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through
me. (John 14:6). The options are either acceptance or rejection. Are you open-minded
enough to believe what He said? Or are you actually, despite what you claim, telling us
that He (Jesus) was wrong or was wrongly reported. Someone as openminded as you
3
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Hebrews%2B1:3&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOHN+14:9&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOHN+14:6&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Hebrews%2B1:3&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOHN+14:9&version=NKJVhttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOHN+14:6&version=NKJV7/29/2019 John Lennon II
4/5
claim to be should work through the following logic (from my article Loving God With
All Your Mind: Logic and Creation, after C.S. Lewiss famous Trilemma argument):
The reports of what Christ said are either true or false.
1) If the reports are false, the reporters either knew they were false or they did not.
1a) If they knew they were false, they were liarsbut who would die for what
they know is a lie?
1b) If they did not know, then it is a big problem to explain how legends could
accumulate around a historical figure in such a short time.
2) If the reports are true, then Jesus was either speaking falsely or truly.
2a) If Jesus spoke falsely He either knew it or he did not.
2ai) If He knew, He was a liar.
2aii) If He knew not, then He was a lunatic, since a claim to be God is the
most absurd claim a mere creature can make.
2b) If Jesus spoke truly, then He really is God.
An open mind does not say I am right and you are in error.
But you are saying that we are in error for believing that Christ is the only way to God,
and that you are right to believe in religious relativism!
God can become the ultimate weapon in the hands of man.
Rather, a rejection of God has led to by far the worst atrocities in history. As the Russian
writer Fyodor Dostoyevsky (18211881) said in The Brothers Karamazov, Without God,everything is permissible; crime is inevitable. The deaths under the evolution-based
Communist and Nazi ideologies only last century, e.g. the Holocaust and the purges of
Stalin and Mao, outweigh the grand total of all deaths in religious wars throughout allpreceding centuries. Also, those committing atrocities in the name of Christ were
inconsistent with His teachings, while Communist and Nazi atrocities were consistent
with those ideologies. Its no accident that the Communist rgimes persecutedChristianity and recently rediscovered documents show thatNazis planned to exterminate
Christianity.
I can claim my knowledge is Gods knowledge. I am now not responsible for what I
believe. It is in Gods holy scriptures so it cant be argued. I can claim God is on my side.I have just turned God into the ultimate weapon.
4
http://www.answersingenesis.org/link.asp?http://www.creationinthecrossfire.com/documents/JonosLogic1/JonosLOGIC1.htmlhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/link.asp?http://www.creationinthecrossfire.com/documents/JonosLogic1/JonosLOGIC1.htmlhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4184cen_d1999.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/Magazines/docs/v24n3_Nazis.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/Magazines/docs/v24n3_Nazis.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/link.asp?http://www.creationinthecrossfire.com/documents/JonosLogic1/JonosLOGIC1.htmlhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/link.asp?http://www.creationinthecrossfire.com/documents/JonosLogic1/JonosLOGIC1.htmlhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4184cen_d1999.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/Magazines/docs/v24n3_Nazis.asphttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/Magazines/docs/v24n3_Nazis.asp7/29/2019 John Lennon II
5/5
The responsibility is to believe in the correct God.
I believe in God,
But which God? Even the demons believe in one God, and tremble (James 2:19)
I just cant define God for you.
But youve just defined him as a concept and even your claim that hes undefinable isitself a definition.
God is beyond my explanation.
Again, you seem to have had a pretty good go at trying to explain this! But the solution is
that God has chosen to explain Himself in the Bible and given ample reasons why theBible should be trusted (see Q&A: Bible). Are you openminded enough to consider
these?
Respectfully,
Allan
Respectfully,Jonathan Sarfati
5
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JAS+2:19&version=NKJVhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/bible.asphttp://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JAS+2:19&version=NKJVhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/bible.asp