““Gender in education and professional Gender in education and professional life: Preparing for a career in science”life: Preparing for a career in science”

Laura FrostLaura FrostBiological Sciences, U of AlbertaBiological Sciences, U of AlbertaProfessor Emerita, Biological SciencesProfessor Emerita, Biological Sciences

University of AlbertaUniversity of Alberta

Aigner-Rollett Guest Professor of Women and Gender StudiesAigner-Rollett Guest Professor of Women and Gender Studies

Univ. of Graz, AustriaUniv. of Graz, Austria

laura.frost@ualberta.calaura.frost@ualberta.caTwin Lake, Banff

Why did I take on the Aigner-Rollett position?My experiences while I was Chair included:

Accusations that we were not interviewing/hiring enough women-typically, only 7-20% of applicants were women

50% of our GS (MSc and PhD) but <10% of our PDFs were women

Women Asst Professors have trouble negotiating salary/start-up-their first grant applications were often too self-effacingand meagre, budget-wise (lack of mentoring as GS and PDF)

Many of our best women undergraduates went into comfortable rather than high-powered labs for graduate studies-too few publications to be competitive

Too many women are in the pink ghetto of low-paying, soft-fundedresearch/teaching positions that leave them vulnerable to life’s vicissitudes-- “I want to be a postdoc forever”

Why are we concerned about women in SET?

We need a diversity of opinion/expertise -avoid “group think”, “old boys’ club”

We cannot discount 50% of the population

Universities are facing a recruitment crisis as baby boomers retire

“Feminists” see their gains eroded: politiciansunwilling to fund a “non-problem”

WinSET seldom cracks the 20% barrier; aim is 30%(30% is lower limit for influencing a group)

Women often take the non-traditional career path

FASTS Report: Women in Science in Australia

Women in Natural and Physical Sciences

Continuing “horizontal” and “vertical” gender differences

FASTS Report: Women in Science in Australia

There are 5 (at least!) steps in bias:

1. Gender differences-biology

2. Gender schemas-subconscious assumptions

3. Gender bias-subconscious decisions

4. Gender discrimination-conscious decisions

-possibly illegal5. Sexual harassment

-illegal

Gender differences:

-obvious: hair patterns, strength, sex traits, etc

-spatial abilities (male) versus language abilities (female)

-affects program/course choice

-self-esteem/-image is higher for men-men are easier on themselves; women feel undeserving

-”stereotype threat” in women

-need for praise is higher for women-men deal better with negative/no feedback

Women move away from SET to less competitive or more caring professions/careers

Often this involves accepting low pay and no security

Schemas: Subconscious Bias• Schemas (expectations or stereotypes) influence

our judgments of others (regardless of our own group).

• Include gender, race, age, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, etc.

• Test yourself: Project Implicit, Harvard University• https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

Schemas do…

• allow efficient, if sometimes inaccurate, processing of social information.

• often conflict with consciously • held or “explicit” attitudes.

• can change based on • experience and exposure.

Nosek, Banaji, & Greenwald (2002). Group Dynamics: Theory, Research and Practice, Fiske, Cuddy, Glick, & Xu (2002). Journal of Personality and Social Psychology

Solo status

-inherently risky

-stands in for the entire gender

-success is attributed to the team

-failure is attributed to gender

-solo status leads to institutional inertia

-inertia leads to rules/policies that support bias

If you know what this is, you can deal with it.

Institutional Inertia

Institutional InertiaLowered success rate

Evaluation biasEvaluation bias

Performance is underestimatedPerformance is underestimated

Accumulation of disadvantageAccumulation of disadvantage

Schemas Lack of critical mass

If we do not actively intervene, the institution reproduces itself

STRIDE, UofMichigan 2008

Why do women opt out?The Turning Point

-marriage and children

-SET is seen as too “hard”

-the “two body problem”

-naivete about careers

-societal pressure

-hidden bias that they

are not wanted/valued

Leaving SET is an almost irreversible decisionOttoline Leyser: “Mothers in Science” http://bioltfws1.york.ac.uk/biostaff/staffdetail.php?id=hmol

Women should be “yummy mummies”

coupled with “family values”,women can never relax.

The competition to be the perfect motherwith the perfect children…

“helicopter parents” now, “tiger mothers”

The Backdrop…A backlashagainst “feminism”.

Strategies for Breaking the Cycle Increase awareness of bias/schemas

• Examine structure of committees

• Seek out qualified applicants

• Alter dept’l/university policies and practices

• Examine age limits, other barriers to success

• Be aware of “bias avoidance behaviour”

• Mentor young people on how to proceed/succeed in science

• -more professional development; less science is “fun”

Develop better career options for scientists

Personal style: what can graduate students/PDFs do to further their careers?

Getting into science: graduate school and postdoctoral training.

R.U. Lemieux and student, 1959

What affected your choice of lab for your PhD/PDF?-professor-location-funding-ambition-lab atmosphere

-topic-career path

-others?

Biggest mistakes graduate students make(in my opinion):

-no world view

-too concentrated on their own project

-cannot multi-task

-cannot prioritize within a project

-do not read the literature

-do not use opportunities to meet people

-cannot talk about their work

-do not publish enough or in time

Some questions you should ask yourself…

1. Self-awareness1. Are you good at this?2. Are you competitive with others?3. Are you enjoying it?4. Do you catch on quickly?5. Are you good with money?

2. Networking skills1. Can you describe your work to a politician? 2. Can you describe it to your Mom?3. Do you enjoy meeting people at conferences?4. Do you attend seminars outside your field?5. Do you ask questions at seminars?

3. Do you have good time management skills?1. Do you work sequentially or multi-task?2. Do you procrastinate?

4. Do you stress out easily?1. Do you have a lot of physical/mental stamina?2. Do you care too much what others think?3. Do you need a lot of reassurance?4. Can you separate work from home life?5. Are you a workaholic?

5. Do you like to argue?1. Do you get angry when people disagree with you?2. Can you change your mind?

3. Do you have good time management skills?1. Do you work sequentially or multi-task?2. Do you procrastinate?

4. Do you stress out easily?1. Do you have a lot of physical/mental stamina?2. Do you care too much what others think?3. Do you need a lot of reassurance?4. Can you separate work from home life?5. Are you a workaholic?

5. Do you like to argue?1. Do you get angry when people disagree with you?2. Can you change your mind?

What are reasonable goals in an MSc or PhD program?

-publication output:-0-2 papers: other career options; MSc-3-5 papers: PDF in good lab; no Fellowship

(2-3 first author; impact factor counts)->5 papers: Fellowship material

-1-2 papers with impact-10-15 papers: Assistant professor material- publications from each career stage

-time to completion (institution dependent)-1-3 years for an MSc-5-7 years for a PhD-3-5 years for a PhD after a MSc

-developing expertise: WRI3ST

Goals: Some WRI3ST Action!

Writing

Reading

Ideas, Industry, Instrumentation

Speaking

Teaching

Van Biesen 4 Partner, Bain & Co, NYCFekete 4 Ambion/ABI/GEKlimke 8 NCBIJerome 2 Biotech Co. MontrealAnthony 6 Yale, RALu 7 PDF, UofAWill 6 PDF, Cambridge, USAGubbins 6 Res Leader, Health Canada

Brett Finlay 20 Prof, UBC

PhD Student papers Now

Selecting a PDF position:

-do you want to come back home?-what does your home institution look for?-look at CVs of recent appointments

-professor-approachable, successful, well-funded-can take the project with you

-go to meetings and meet people-look at websites-send CV to potential supervisors

-papers are critical-develop close ties to professors for good Letters of Reference

Typical MIT prof

Your CV: complete, informative and impressive

Personal information-contact information !!!!!-birth date (optional)-marital status (optional)-nationality (optional)

Education:-Degrees (institution, year, (co-)supervisor, title of thesis)-advisory committee members (optional)

Professional qualifications:-Research Experience

-job title, years, location, supervisor-certification (keep documents!)

-Animal care, Radiation, Biosafety etc.-Teaching Experience

-course, role, years, institution, locationAwards:

-everything from undergraduate on

-no sports awards etc

-explain important ones (brag!)

Service:

-international

-national

-regional

-university

-faculty

-department

Keep track of this stuff!

It is very important when you are being nominated for awards, promotions!

Publications

-peer-reviewed, published

-impact factor, contributions of authors

-bold your name, underline trainees

-number them!

-note (invited) reviews

-peer-reviewed in press (same as above)

-in preparation

-books, book chapters

-technical reports

-patents, applied and granted with numbers

-other (non-refereed publications; editorials,

letters to the editor, etc.

Presentations:

-invited talks

-presentations at conferences, etc

-underline presenter

-name conference, location, date, prizes

Trainees:

-graduate students

-give name, degree, years, title,

-awards, current position

-PDFs (same as above)

-undergraduate students (summer, project)

-visiting professors/scientists

-technicians

Grants and Contracts:

-list active, past and applied for

-list title!

-list PI and co-PIs (identify your role)

-list agency, grant type, amount/year, duration

Professional societies:

-join some!

Editorships: (later)

Reviewing duties:

-list journals, agencies (grants) and number/year

-do not list authors or titles (confidential)

Training/certification:

-biohazards, radiation training, animal care

References:-complete contact information-ask for permission-make sure they have a reputation for writinggood letters

Research Profile

-describe field and your area of interest-describe your contributions-describe your future plans

5 most important accomplishments/papers

Teaching dossier (in your CV)

-have a look at a junior and senior dossier

-list all courses taught

-number of lectures per term (number/total and %age)

-content and level of course (briefly)

-role in course (co-ordinator, examiner, co-lecturer, etc)

-contribution to course (just lectures or designed course, added new content, WebCT or other on-line resources, video, Blogs, on-line quizzes)

-if available, student evaluations (very important!)

Success in academic science: getting the job.

Where do you look to find a job?

-Nature, Science, Cell, New Scientist and other journals and their on-line sites

-many have tips on improving your resume-society web pages (ASBMB, ASM, EU?)

-National university magazines (in Canada, AAS:UA, CAUT)

-Targeted institutions’ Human Resources offices-supervisor and other professors

Assistant or Associate Professor in Medical MicrobiologyUNIVERSITY OF ALBERTA – We invite applications for a tenure-track position at the Assistant or Associate Professor level in research areas related to medical microbiology. The successful candidate will be expected to interact with a vigorous microbiology group which has expertise in medical and molecular microbiology, virology and immunology including innate immunity. Strong collaborative interactions are also available with the Centre for Infectious Diseases and the Centre for Microbial Evolution. The candidate should have a strong record of research and demonstrated potential for excellence in teaching. The University of Alberta offers a competitive salary commensurate with experience and an excellent benefits plan.

(1/2)

The ad….

-apply if you are at all interested!

The Process Sciences & Production (PSP) team at Novartis Biologics (NBx) is seeking a highly motivated Ph.D. scientist with relevant experience to establish a Microbial Expression laboratory.Division :PharmaceuticalsBusiness Unit :General MedicinesPosting Functional Area: Novartis BiologicsEmployment Type: Permanent

A Ph.D. in Microbiology, Biology, or related life science field and a minimum of 5 years of relevant experience in the biotechnology industry. Expertise in molecular biology tools: host cells, gene engineering, vectors, transformation. Expertise in cell physiology and metabolic flux analysis and high-throughput screening is a plus. Motivation and ability to lead a microbial expression laboratory.

Process Sciences & Production Lab Head, Microbial Expression

Novartis Institute for Biomedical Research | - - United States | posted 05/21/2009 | Full Time

A typical ad in industry….from Science career page

Send in the requirements as requested:-covering letter

-very important; sell yourself!-CV-keep a complete up-to-date CV that can be

tailored to job ad (academic, industry, other)-research proposal (tailor to requirements)-teaching statement and teaching philosophy (if

needed)-arrange for letters of reference

-from professors/bosses that know you well-from others if applying

for a teaching job, job in industry, etc.-be on time!

CVAcademic research jobs want a complete CV

-contact info, education, employment, awards, service, editorships, trainees, publications, invited presentations, posters etc, teaching dossier

Academic teaching jobs want more emphasison teaching (surprise!) so move teaching dossier forward; de-emphasize presentations,

posters -keep it as brief as possible

Industry jobs want more emphasis on techniques/business that you have experience with (not usually listedin an academic CV) -minimize posters, presentations etc; max 2-4

pages

Research Accomplishments and Plans

Teaching statement

Teaching Philosophy

Mentoring Philosophy

-this requires more gushy talk than you might be comfortable with-get used to it!

-good to have a standard one that you can tweak as the need arises

-mention existing and new courses that you could teach

-mention interest in outreach and UG supervision

as appropriate

Letters of reference-make sure they are good and on-time!

Selection committee and short lists-after the closing date, the committee members

review all the applications-rank the top ~8 candidates and pick out top 2-5-make sure you are available; read your E.mail,answer your phone!

Late application?-phone/E.mailand inquire if you canstill apply

Interview procedures: do’s and don’ts

-get some sleep! This is very tiring

-read up on what people in the dept are doing-check on-line seminars and find out who is your

competition (they might hire 2 of you!)-acquaint yourself with funding or be prepared to ask intelligent questions-be clear about what you want to do

-in the first year (lab set-up)-in five years-in your career-what do you want to be famous for?

-what is your lab style? Small? Huge operation?-what facilities/equipment will you need?

-make a list with an estimated cost-how are graduate students supported?

-ask to see the city-be yourself…you can fool some of the people some of the time……

Don’t…

-assume this will be like your other experiences-answer in monosyllables or…talk too much-sit like a bump at dinner/social events

or speak to one person only-announce at the restaurant that you are a fruitarian

(tell the secretary/committee chair ahead of time)-announce you need $2 million in start-up-say you don’t like teaching UG, only GS, if you are at

a comprehensive university-compare other offers to this one-wear awkward, uncomfortable clothing-wear a T-shirt and jeans

The recruitment seminar…

-know your audience: heterogeneous or specialized?

-general introduction-your past work-your past work as it relates to what you want

to do as a professor-demonstrate your mastery of subject-your career plans

-be on-time! Neither too long nor too short-be prepared to answer tough questions (don’t cry!)

The teaching seminar…

-inquire what level you are teaching, the subject and the length of the lecture

-act as if you are in the midst of the course and refer

to “past lectures”-encourage class participation-give an assignment at the end of class-make sure your lecture is up-to-date

(ask a colleague who teaches this material or refer to the course textbook, if known)

The interview…

-usually meet with members of the departmentfor 30-45 minutes each for a chat

-meet with the Dean and/or Chair (see below)-at the end of the visit (usually) there is an interview

with the committee-departments differ in the level of formality

-go with the flow

-there could be a request for a 15 minute “chalk talk”-describe your future work without any visualaids; just a blackboard and chalk-stay on time or a little over; let committee ask for more clarification

Interview with the Dean or Chair…-they are sizing you up-they usually explain policies and procedures

-Faculty evaluation procedures-tenure and promotion criteria-teaching loads-pay scales-pensions-space and renovations-spousal recruitment policies-child care; mat/pat leave policies-moving expenses-housing allowances-immigration policies-start-up; they might ask for a list of equipment;

be preparedNot allowed to ask about age, marital status, immigration status, etc.

but can explain the rules. By all means, open up the discussion-it

is your perogative!

Negotiating the contract.-salary: based on years from PhD, age, experience

-supplement if needed; make sure it’s fair -pension, medical, dental, etc benefits

-space: be sure to see it and make sure renovationsare part of the contract

-start-up: institutional and granting agencies, -is this a loan or a true start-up?

-Child bearing policies? Spousal hiring programs?-support for immigration costs/relocation expenses?

-these can be points for negotiation-housing aid (mortgages etc)-support for graduate students-technical support and fees -teaching loads; teaching relief-service commitments-sabbaticals

Usually, the first contract can be negotiated but the second contractis take-it-or-leave-it.Chair/Dean will probably act at a distance to ensure fairness;

-do not be upset if you seem forgotten; phone or E.mail

They have offered you the job (it can take quite a while)…

If you don’t get it…-learning experience-ask for feedback

(if comfortable)-don’t be discouraged

Success in academic sciencetenure and promotion.

US and CanadaAssistant Professor (6-8 yrs), Associate Professor, Full Professor

Australia, UK•Level E - Professor/ Professorial Research Fellow •Level D - Associate Professor/Principal Research Fellow •Level C - Senior Lecturer/Senior Research Fellow •Level B - Lecturer/Research Fellow •Level A - Associate Lecturer/Postdoctoral Fellow/

Postdoctoral Research Associate/Research Associate EuropeUniversity Assistant, Habilitation, Associate Professor (Docent),

Professor (limited availability)

Expectations for new professors:

1. Get a grant2. Find some students3. Teach a course or two well4. Publish some papers5. Get tenure and relax!

Grants:-beware of the grant trap!

-many agencies want to support young profs

-first grants are relatively easy to get but….

-first renewal can be very difficult

-rejection means losing staff/time/lead in field

-figure out how much you need to do some straightforward

and some cutting edge research-then do it!

-US universities demand lots of grants because they

run on the overhead (60-120%)

-investigate this before you take a job!

Publish or perish!

-spend as much of your time as possible at the bench

-build tools/opportunities for your students

-test to see if the hypothesis is a good one

…then put a student on it

-write grants when you need the money not for prestige

-the contest is productivity not grantsmanship

-publish papers as soon as possible

-make sure you have some fail-safe papers that will get published

-build your reputation by publishing in the best journals you can

-by year 3 you should be publishing ~1-2 papers a year (depends on field)

-if your job is a 9 month appt, use the other 3 months on research!

Time management as a young professor

In your first year….It’s what you don’t do that is important!

Cont’d…

Teaching is an important activity but…-do not teach more than you need to when you are just

getting started-be careful about teaching loads-get a commitment to let you teach a course for 3 years

minimum-watch the amount of time you spend building

trendy lectures (powerpoint, WebCT, interactive)

Students want clarity, predictability, fair exams that they can finish, …don’t overload!

Take on minimal service (just enough to be a good citizen) until tenure

Make sure your year-to-year performance is good-- Get feedback!

How to survive being a young professor (with children)-there will be very busy times but other times less so

-don’t fill up every available minute!

-hire a (good) technician or PDF-be fussy about graduate students –no charity cases!-limit UG involvement early on unless there is a group project-set up a routine so that you don’t bring your work home with you-take holidays-maintain hobbies, friends, family contacts-collaborate carefully

-will your partners produce?-can you produce?

-watch how many grants you write! Do you need the money?

-invest in help at home-your future earning potential far outways paying off the mortgage!

What are the expectations for tenure?

-an established lab with students- both GS and UG-adequate funding-publishing 2-5 papers a year depending on the field-publishing with your students-publishing without your former mentors-beware publishing with future reference writers!-publishing in high impact journals

(>3 for most; >8 for some)-increasing your h-index (get cited!)

Once you have established yourself there will be expectations!-more papers than usual is good-a drop in papers is seen as very bad-time your papers to prevent peaks and valleys

Cont’d…-good teaching with a spark of brilliance in at

least one course-if you have poor evaluations, do something about it!

-get a mentor to evaluate your teaching-take remedial sessions

-be sure you are teaching material you arecomfortable with (not the dept’l leftovers)

-if possible, avoid courses with a heterogeneousstudent population or no prerequisite (multiple years, multiple faculties)

-get invited to speak at other universities, conferences etc.-invite speakers to build friendships and check out the

competition! Perform service that is appreciated!

-formally acknowledged-editorship vs Christmas party coordinator

Impact factor and h-index

The Impact factor was devised by Eugene Garfield, the founder of the Institute for Scientific Information, now part of Thomson, a large worldwide US-based publisher. Impact factors are calculated each year by Thomson Scientific for those journals which it indexes, and the factors and indices are published in Journal Citation Reports Some related values, also calculated and published by the same organization, are:•the immediacy index: the number of citations the articles in a journal receive in a given year divided by the number of articles published.

•the cited half-life: the median age of the articles that were cited in Journal Citation Reports each year. For example, if a journal's half-life in 2005 is 5, that means the citations from 2001-2005 are half of all the citations from that journal in 2005, and the other half of the citations precede 2001.[2]

•the aggregate impact factor for a subject category: it is calculated taking into account the number of citations to all journals in the subject category and the number of articles from all the journals in the subject category.

These measures apply only to journals, not individual articles or individual scientists (unlike the h-index). The relative number of citations an individual article receives is better viewed as citation impact.

For example, the 2003 impact factor, published in 2004, of a journal would be calculated as follows:

A = the number of times articles published in 2001-2 were cited in indexed journals during 2003 B = the number of "citable items" (usually articles, reviews, proceedings or notes; not editorials and letters-to-the-Editor) published in 2001-2 2003 impact factor = A/B

Wikipedia discusses pros and cons:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_factor

Impact factor cont’d

h-index cont’dA scientist has index h if: h of [his/her] Np papers have at least h citations each,

and the other (Np - h) papers have at most h citations each. Web of Science; type in name (Frost LS*), select fields (at left)-hit “create citation report”-NSERC is using h-index to judge worthiness (h>30!)

Expectations for tenure or habilitation….

1.The 20 paper rule….does your institution follow it?-Usually used in “7 years: all or none” institutions-Used in habilitation evaluation instead of paper on

a subject (super-thesis)

2.Grants: how many are expected? Renewals?3.Excellent to very good teaching4.Referee letters from 4-10 internationally known

researchers who are “at arm’s length”-not collaborators, mentors, spouses-haven’t published together for 7-10 years

5. Some service

Funding opportunities:

Grants 101

Writing a grant:

-read the instructions-follow the instructions-submit the grant on time

Governments set their budgets

Granting agencies set their priorities-politics, media, social agendas

Grant selection panels rank grants-ideas, productivity, feasibility

Granting agencies fund grants-priorities trump science?

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number

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score

Scores Spring 2009

Series1

Series2

<3.4 3.5 3.6 3.7 3.8 3.9 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.5 4.6 4.7

51 applications: 10 funded (~20%) + 5 partial (1 year)11 women applied (21.5%)4.5 or greater: 11, 3 women4.2-4.4: 9, 1 woman (4.3)

32 funded in last 3 competitions: 6 women (18.8%)

Canadian Institutes of Health Research

Five types of grants:

-salary awards-plus research grant?

-project grants-non-renewable (usually)

-program (operating) grants-renewable

-contracts-deliverables

-equipment-short, collaborative

-government, NGO, QuaNGO, industry…overhead ??

What are the key points that a grant selection committee looks for in a grant application?

-excellent ideas-productivity (2-10 papers/year; $/paper)

BB Finlay: 106 papers/5 years, 46 from one grant-prior experience/expertise-no “fishing expeditions”-training of highly qualified personnel-excellent and logical collaborators-appropriate, cost-effective facilities-well explained budget-clarity, brevity, presentation

What are things that turn committee members off?

-not following the page limit!-small, crowded font size-acronyms galore-dense, unreadable prose-insufficient or too many figures-no preliminary data-fishing expeditions!-overlap with other grants without

explanation-collaborators that do nothing or do it all!-unexplained budgets, especially large

salaries

Tips on writing grants:-renewal or new?-write the grant at least a month ahead of time-proofread it!-get the grant critiqued by your most

honest/successful colleagues

State long term goalList specific aims (~1/year of research)Include -literature review

-prior work-work in progress-future work-always have alternate plans-make sure aim 2 follows aim 1!-name people who will do the work

No throw-away lines!

-” this will be the basis for a vaccine”-”we will design drugs to inhibit the enzyme”-”we will cure cancer”-”animal experiments will be done in the future”

Either explain in full or outline future plan in more detail!- lack of explanation could invalidate the research!

No added projects (padding) that are off topic!

Budget:

-make sure the budget is explained-10-15,000 CND/person/year (molecular/cell)

-keep a log of expenses

-salary scale and benefits?-name trainees, employees and give

salariesand benefits (explain institutional

policy)-make clear what the technician will do

-publication costs, travel, repairs, user fees-up-front or buried in other costs?-what does the agency allow?

-look at website and see what average grant is worth

-add about 10-20% more to allow for cuts-remember to add in overhead if required

Asking for less does not increase chance of success!

Careers in Science: worth the effort

• CompetitiveCompetitive• HierarchicalHierarchical• EmotionalEmotional• DemandingDemanding• ExpensiveExpensive• RegulatedRegulated• Time intensiveTime intensive

• Satisfying Satisfying • RewardingRewarding• OpportunitiesOpportunities• CollegialCollegial• FlexibleFlexible• DynamicDynamic• MobileMobile

Lake McArthur, BC

Thanks to:

Dr. Pamela Raymond and STRIDE, University of MichiganDr. Pamela Raymond and STRIDE, University of Michigan

Dr. Margaret-Ann Armour, Assoc. Dean, Diversity, U of ADr. Margaret-Ann Armour, Assoc. Dean, Diversity, U of A

Drs. Elena Nasim for organizing todayDrs. Elena Nasim for organizing today

Dr. Ellen Zechner, Univ. Of Graz, for getting me into thisDr. Ellen Zechner, Univ. Of Graz, for getting me into this

Healy Pass, Banff